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Morgan Jones Pearson: [00:00:00] I hope everyone is having a merry Christmas season thus far. Before we get into today's interview, I wanted to provide a quick content advisory that this episode may be best listened to without little ears nearby as some of Santa's best trade secrets are discussed.

In the description of his painting, The Spirit of Christmas, Greg Olson writes, in part, By the magical light of a small Christmas candle, a little old man tries to carefully handle the small porcelain manger which serves as a bed for the wee baby Jesus to lay down his head. In wonder he brings the manger up to his view, smiles at the baby, and whispers, I love you for bringing the season of joy.

I love you for growing to a man from a boy, for being our light and leading the way, for being the spirit which makes Christmas Day. You've been my mentor, my model, my hero and guide. Please continue to help me and stay by my side. [00:01:00] Then back to his mother, the child is returned. The nativity glows as the candle is burned.

In a wink, the little old man slips quietly away. Day he goes up the chimney and climbs in a sleigh, whatever the case, his mission is clear. Give unto others. Bringing love and good cheer. He flies into the night and bids us a do doing for others. What Jesus would do, as I thought about who might be a great guest for our last episode before Christmas, I couldn't help but think of a man who managed to paint Santa in a painting about the real meaning of Christmas.

Greg Olson is a widely celebrated painter, renowned for his exquisite faith filled masterpieces. I think his art speaks for itself.

This is All In, an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson, and I am. [00:02:00] so honored to have Greg Olson on the line with me today. Greg, welcome.

Greg Olsen: Thank you, Morgan. It's great to be here.

Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I told Greg before we ever got started that I have had several people over the years who have just told me completely unrelated to your art, which speaks for itself, but who have told me what an incredible person you are, Greg.

And so I am thrilled to have the chance to talk with you and to get to know you better. But to start off, I understand I understand that your love for art perhaps began because your parents were both interested in art, but it seems like your art really started to flourish thanks to a couple of teachers throughout the years.

I wondered if you could tell me a little bit about how your love for art began and what it was that these people or influences did in your life to encourage your gift.

Greg Olsen: Sure. I grew up in a little town called Iona, [00:03:00] Idaho. It's just outside of Idaho falls. It's a rural community. And there aren't a lot of things to do there for entertainment other than the things you sort of invent yourself.

And from a very small age, Drawing was one of those things that I use to entertain myself. And thankfully I had parents who were supportive that my mom was kind of a weekend oil painter. There were a group of ladies that she would go painting landscapes with plein air. And that always fascinated me. My dad was kind of like a graphics artist who worked in topography and all that kind of stuff in the days before computers.

But he was, uh, You know, artistic in his own way. And then there's kind of a weird art gene in our family. I have cousins and uncles who. enjoy painting and drawing. I have [00:04:00] one cousin who was a, uh, professor of art at BYU, Idaho. So anyway, it's kind of in the family. So my parents were always willing to at least keep me in a good supply of sketchbooks and pencils and crayons, whatever.

And I just always enjoyed it. When I got to junior high school, I took an elective art class and my teacher there, Mr. Longmore, made it a lot of fun. Then I went on to high school for four years and had Another exceptional teacher, his name was Bob Whitney, and he really stressed not so much painting, but we learned to draw from models.

And he also would take us each year on, on an art tour, and we would take an old school bus and head South to Utah, where there were. A higher concentration of artists and college art programs. And we went tour around [00:05:00] and it was during high school on those kinds of trips that I met a handful of professional artists, and I saw people who actually did this full time.

And it sounded to me to be. Like a lot more fun than milking the cow on the farm or irrigating or something like that. So I was just naive enough to think you could just, you know, decide to be an artist. That's what I'm going to do. And that's what I, uh, set my sights on. So by the time I was about a sophomore in high school, I thought, you know, this, this would be fun before that.

I think I wanted to be a forest ranger or something like that. But anyway, so that's where it started.

Morgan Jones Pearson: Okay, and then by the time it was time for you to serve a mission or mission age, you said that it started to feel like a mission would be quite a sacrifice because art had become so important to you.

You ended up actually having the [00:06:00] opportunity to paint on your mission, and you shared a story recently with the Deseret News that I thought was so cool about an interaction that you had with President Spencer W. Kimball and how that influenced your career. I wondered if you would mind sharing that.

Greg Olsen: Sure, that was a memorable experience for me. I did get a chance to use my art. On my mission, which was a surprise to me. I had thought I was just going to put away the sketchbooks and paint brushes for two years. And that was a little scary for me because it's such a competitive field. And I was afraid if, I don't practice at all for two years, I'm just going to lose it.

But anyway, I decided to go. And at one point, On my mission, I was serving in our mission office and I remember, I think it was like a Monday morning, we got to the office and we got a phone call and I remember the mission secretary answering the phone and [00:07:00] he was jotting down a message that he was receiving, turned out to be a call from Salt Lake City announcing the first ever U.

S. Marine. area conference in Eastern Canada. I was serving in the Canada, Toronto mission. And so this would involve the first presidency coming and many of the 12 apostles and other general authorities, and they were going to hold a big Area conference in downtown Toronto at the Maple Leaf Garden. So it was a big deal and we got excited about that.

And I think it was about a week later, then this was an announcement that came a couple of months before the actual conference. But about a week after that phone call, my mission president pulled me aside and, He knew that I had an interest in drawing and art, and I think maybe he'd seen a few things. I don't know how.

Anyway, he had this idea [00:08:00] to create some kind of a little memento that we could offer to President Kimball, who was the prophet at the time. This was like 1979, I believe. And he asked me to do a painting representing missionary activity there in Eastern Canada, sort of a montage. And his idea was, you know, show missionaries praying and teaching and tracting and baptizing and on and on.

It was like a big movie poster for, for missionary work. So this was kind of exciting to me. I thought this sounded like more fun than doing office work in office. And he gave me a little budget to go buy a canvas and some paint brushes and paint. But I remember as I left his office, he said, Oh, now elder Olson, of course you'll only work on this on your preparation day, right?

Oh, yeah, right. So [00:09:00] I still had to do office work during the week, but each preparation day for the next couple of months, after I wrote my letters home and did my laundry, I worked on this, uh, painting and I used, you know, Companions and members of the office staff as models. Uh, I think I actually had a portrait of President Kimball in there, and Jesus, and missionaries doing all their activities and whatnot.

But the whole time I was working on it, I was a little bit nervous. I started thinking, you know, if, if they actually give this to President Kimball and say that This was from our mission and maybe you'd find out some missionary did this. He's going to wonder why the artist was messing around on this and not actually doing all this stuff that was depicted in this painting, like tracking and teaching and all that stuff.

So I was a little nervous and I was kind of preparing a, an excuse speech. Stating how, [00:10:00] of course I only did this on my preparation days and I still wrote my mom and did my laundry and stuff like that. So anyway, I happened to finish this piece. It was the last possible preparation day before this area conference.

And I delivered it to my mission president and it ended up being presented to president Kimball in a special missionary session of this area conference. I think it was on a Saturday. And nothing was ever said. I didn't get in trouble or anything like that. And so I was very relieved. But the next day was Sunday when the general session of the area conference was held in the Maple Leaf Gardens in downtown Toronto.

And the missionaries Got stationed around the, the, uh, arena as ushers for all the [00:11:00] people who were coming in. And somehow I got stationed often and out of the way, place where I couldn't do any harm. They actually put me behind the stage in this vacant hallway that was like some kind of security access or something.

Anyway, nobody ever even came in there, so I remember I was just. around by myself feeling kind of useless in this hallway when a real security guard came up to me and he kind of pulled me aside and he said, can you see down at the end of this hallway those big steel doors at the very end? And I said, yeah.

And he said, well, that's, that's kind of the secret security entrance where all the general authorities will come in. President Kimball will come in and the apostles and whatnot. And then he pointed to a [00:12:00] door right behind me. And he said, your job is when they arrive. to usher them in through this little side door.

And he opened it up and there was a, it was a big lounge. It had refreshments and couches and things where they could rest and take it easy before the conference started and in between sessions. So he said, you think you can do that? And I said, yeah, I guess so. And then he left. And then I felt like, wow, this is a much.

Bigger job than I was counting on it. I felt a little bit of importance being back there by myself. And I can remember I was actually practicing like pointing like right this way.

So I would do it right. I was probably there 10 minutes or so by myself practicing when I heard these big steel doors open at the end of the hallway. And I remember two big guys walked in. [00:13:00] And then they turned and faced towards me and in between them was this little tiny guy, which was turned out to be president Kimball.

And he had these two big bodyguards and he was holding, they were arm in arm. His president Kimball's health was not so great at the time. And they were assisting him. And as they got closer to me, I realized that. One of these bodyguards was somebody I recognized, his name was Hal, and he was a guy I'd had a chance to teach the gospel to in a previous area, and he had joined the church and this ended up being one of his first official church assignments, bodyguard for the prophet.

And so he was all stoked and thinking, you know, this is great. And we ended up making eye contact. And that was a really cool experience for me as I saw how, and I remember him like pointing at this little guy next [00:14:00] to him and gave me this big thumbs up, you know, who this is. And I'm like, yeah, I know who that is.

And we were kind of, as they're walking towards me, Hal and I were kind of reveling in this telepathic conversation. And I was so caught up in that little experience that I actually forgot my assignment. And pretty soon I realized that. There were all these other General Authorities just milling around in the hall, they didn't know where to go, they had passed up President Kimball, I realized, I gotta do my job, so I opened the door and I ushered them in, and I remember President Kimball walking by, and N. Eldon Tanner, Mary and G Romney. And after that was a bunch of miscellaneous apostles that went by and they, they went in and sat down and the door was closed. I gave Hal a big hug and we caught up on the latest news with him and his family. And then he had to [00:15:00] go leave and meet his family out in the, uh, the arena somewhere.

So I was left alone again there. in the hallway. But this time I was really happy. I just thought, what a great, you know, I was really happy to be there. And just that little experience made the whole mission thing worthwhile for me. But, um, I remember I heard the door behind me open the one that I just ushered all these brethren into and an arm reached out and grabbed ahold of my arm and kind of spun me around and I looked.

And I recognized on the other end of this arm was Brother Arthur Haycock. He was the personal secretary to President Kimball. And he, uh, he looked at me and he said, Are you Elder Olson? And I, I don't know why I just thought this is going to be either really good or really bad. And I started [00:16:00] somehow flashing back to my fears about doing this painting.

And maybe I'm going to get the talk now about, Oh, thank you. That was very nice. But really. You should be out doing missionary work instead of messing around on this stuff. Anyway, I answered, I said, Yes, I'm Elder Olson. And he said, Are you the Elder Olson who did that painting? And so then my heart really sank, and I'm mentally preparing my speech to my parents when I have to get off the plane at home for being sent back or something.

I, I said, uh, yes, I, I am that Elder Olson and I remember Brother Haycock turned around behind him and President Kimball was sitting in a, a chair and he said, President Kimball, uh, yes, this is Elder Olson. And he is the one who did that painting. And I think I was just shaking. I was really [00:17:00] nervous and scared, but he pulled me inside this little room and shut the door behind me.

And president Kimmel got up and walked over to me and shook my hand. And he said, thank you very much. And. And I didn't get the talk. I didn't get any kind of a rebuke. He just started asking me about where I grew up and about Iona. Questions like you ask me, how did you get started in art? And what are your parents like?

And dah, dah, dah, dah. And what do you want to do when you get home? And he spent about 10 minutes. just talking to me about my interest in art. And it was such a gracious thing to take time for this lowly little missionary and chat about something that was of interest to me. And then I was excused and I, I, I headed to exit out the door and he said, Oh, Elder Olson, by the way, he said, when you get [00:18:00] home, maybe you ought to do.

more of this kind of stuff. He said, perhaps we can use it in the church. And I, I always remembered that. And I thought it was so generous of him to give me that encouragement. So I remember just the end of the story, sort of the finale was, I I was ushered out of that little lounge room back out into the hallway.

The door was closed. I was there by myself again, and then I was really thankful for being there. I just thought, what a great, you know, if I had to go home today, just these little experiences would have made it. Worth it for me. Uh, but then it wasn't long until I heard that same door open again, and hand reached out and grabbed my arm again and spun me around.

And this time it wasn't brother Haycock. It was president Kimball. And he said, well, let's go. And I heard the [00:19:00] music, the prelude music playing out in the arena. You had to walk a little further down this hall and then up some stairs and you parted these curtains. And then you were on the back of the, uh, the stage, the rostrum.

So he held onto my arm and said, let's go. And we walked down the hallway and then up these stairs. I remember parting these curtains. And by this time, the whole arena. Was filled with saints from all over Eastern Canada. And of course, when they saw these curtains open and they saw president Kimball there, that's who they had all really come to, to listen to.

They all stood up and then these white handkerchiefs came out and they started waving them and someone started singing, we thank you God for a prophet and that built throughout the whole. And I walked into his seat as, uh, as they were singing that night, I just remember looking on my arm and seeing this little man and just being filled with gratitude that he was so [00:20:00] generous to spend a little time with me and give me.

Some encouragement. So that's, it's kind of a long story, but I always remember that even after I got home, when I didn't see any practical way to fulfill that there, nobody was buying Christian art. I, I didn't, I got married six months after I got home from my mission and Western art was a big thing at the time.

And I started doing illustration work on the side and anyway, but that, advice from him was always in the back of my mind and somehow it eventually found a way to come out.

Morgan Jones Pearson: That story is so good. And I love, I feel like I could see it in my mind. So thank you for, for telling all of that. It was also a mission companion, as I understand it, that encouraged you to pursue [00:21:00] art full time and hosted your first art show.

And there you met Elder Hugh Pinnock, who asked if you had ever considered painting anything religious, which led to your first painting of Christ, your first commission through the church. Looking back, I would, I wondered, When you had considered whether you should serve a mission and felt like that mission would be a sacrifice, how would you say that the sacrifice to serve a mission worked out for you?

Greg Olsen: Oh, wow. Looking back, it was a very pivotal thing. Just as an illustration, years ago, I made a little chart. It kind of looked like a family tree chart, but it was A diagram showing different people and events in my life that were important. And [00:22:00] then branches would come off of. That person or event that represented other significant things and people events in my life that came as a result of that one thing.

By the time I was done, I had this big sort of illustration of a tree representing the amazing things that come into my life. Some were hard things, some are good things, but a whole bunch of good things came from that one branch, which was representing. My experience on my mission, you know, meeting president Kimball, this particular companion of mine who encouraged me to just go for it and quit my job and start painting.

He was a neighbor to elder Pinnock and they just, you know, little, little seemingly insignificant things turn out to be huge, pivotal events. Sometimes as you look back, you don't realize sort of this [00:23:00] divine design to everything. And certainly my mission was a big part of that.

Morgan Jones Pearson: I think so many listening can probably envision in their minds similar experiences.

We're certainly not all Greg Olson, haven't painted so many great things for the church, but I think so many of us can look back and see how a mission blessed our lives. Since that time, Greg, you have created some of the most beloved and recognizable pieces of Latter day Saint art, but you also have managed to kind of transcend that Latter day Saint art space and have reached a broader Christian audience.

Actually, as I was preparing for this interview, I found an old 2017 Deseret News article and a columnist was marveling over the fact that you were, in their words, everywhere. Scary. [00:24:00] I wondered though, why do you think you have been able to be successful not just within the Latter day Saint world, but outside of it?

What would you attribute that to?

Greg Olsen: Oh, goodness. Well, a couple of things. One sort of a practical part of that equation. I just didn't give up. I've always said the biggest thing I had going for me is that I did not have a plan B. I just, I just, I wanted, you know, to be an artist and I didn't really have a backup plan.

So through all the hard times, I just figured somehow I've got to make this work. But when it comes to like connecting with. collectors, viewers outside of our, our little culture here. Wow. [00:25:00] I, I started out painting sort of my own feelings about Jesus. And I think evolved over the years, it's very intimidating to try to create a visual representation of him and hold it up and say to Christians, this is supposed to remind you of the son of God, you know, someone who's ordinary for you.

And I learned early on that, especially years ago, there was a certain spectrum of a look. that people would immediately recognize as Jesus. And, you know, they were all the European. Artists who've created images throughout the years, many were probably not very accurate, but these are the images that we grew up with that we're familiar with.

And so in order to [00:26:00] have people immediately recognize who you're trying to paint, you're influenced by those images. And so, you know, I tried to do images that were recognizable, but that were also Had some human humaneness about them growing up for me. Sometimes the images of Jesus with a halo and always, they sort of seemed.

inaccessible to me. I don't know. I'm just a simple farm kid from southeastern Idaho. And so I think I painted things that I could easily connect with on my level that, you know, my mom would connect with my people that I knew who salt of the earth sort of people. And I think those images, I always think of them as just visual reminders, and [00:27:00] it's kind of like our sacrament prayer says, you know, if we'll remember him, we'll have his spirit to be with us.

And I found there's some, there's a truth in that. If you can create something that just causes people to slow down long enough to think about him, and maybe even think about him in their own special way. You know, don't be bound by the images that. that an artist creates. Just use those as springboards.

If that happens, you sort of start a dialogue with a painting. You kind of have to slow down to the speed of, you know, drawing paint. And if you'll do that, art can give back to you. It's not as immediate as say the musical arts, which just grab you and take you where they want you to go. I think you have to, [00:28:00] you have to give something first.

And so I think the viewers, the collectors, people who have put forth that effort to add their own. Um, you know, dimension to those images and if, if they connect at all, I give the viewer credit for that. I'm just putting something out there as here, here's some stimuli to maybe be a vehicle for that. I don't know.

It's a mystery to me because really there are so many artists that are way more skilled and talented than I am. Maybe it's just because I'm just an ordinary person.

Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, you are incredibly talented. I, you can play the humble card all you want, but I will say, I think so many people listening, myself included, your paintings have been influential and instrumental [00:29:00] in helping us, like you said, have our own.

visual image of what Christ looks like, whether it looks just like yours or not, at least giving us something, a springboard to start with. You have painted a number, Greg, and this is one reason that I wanted to have you on just before Christmas. You've painted a number of Christmas related pieces, and I find that fascinating, um, because a lot of these pieces feature Santa and the Savior.

One piece shows Santa with the nativity and is called the Spirit of Christmas, and you previously said that it bothered you that Santa and the Savior are often pitted against one another at this time of year. And then you said this, I've always thought Santa was just carrying on the mission of the baby Jesus.

I wondered what do you personally love about Christmas? And how did you kind of get started [00:30:00] painting these pieces that, that include Santa Claus?

Greg Olsen: Yeah. Christmas has to be my all time favorite holiday. And it's weird because I, I have recollections of being. Three or four years old. And I know I had to be about that old.

Cause I remember the presents I got, the ones that were under the tree that year, a little red fire engine and a. a little farm set. I think I was about four, but I remember in my mind having a full blown concept of what the spirit of Christmas was at that young age. It's like somehow it was downloaded like the wonder and magic of Christmas, the part of the baby Jesus, the magic of Santa Claus.

It all, it's like nobody taught me that. It just, seem to just be a part of my awareness. So I've always loved it. And yes, I have felt [00:31:00] bad that we, you know, sometimes Santa gets villainized and cause there's a lot of good I think in what he symbolizes. And I, you mentioned this painting of Santa with the nativity looking at the baby Jesus.

And after I finished that painting, I was doing. An art show where we had introduced that as a new print. And I actually had Santa with me, the very model that appeared in that painting, and we were both co signing prints. It was so weird. I can see why people who are Santa's helpers get, get hooked on playing Santa.

because families would come up and little kids would run up to Santa and hug him and say, Santa, I love you. And it was just this gush of love and [00:32:00] admiration coming for Santa. And it was the closest thing to having this as we're having Jesus there model, you know, with me, because it was that same kind of just pure love that was, uh, being directed at him.

And so it just, it, it, It made me more convinced that, done in the right way, seen from the right perspective, you know, Santa, that tradition does carry on the mission of Jesus, you know, doing unto others, giving, serving, spreading love and cheer, all that kind of stuff. It's hard to separate those two.

Morgan Jones Pearson: I love that.

I have so many good memories related to the magic of Christmas and I think much like you, it's like, I don't know when I kind of bought into the whole Christmas thing, but [00:33:00] it is a highlight. I feel like of every child's life, most children. In a description of your painting, He is Risen, you told a story about when your daughter began to realize that the Easter Bunny might not be real.

Don't worry, we'll put like a little heads up before this episode so people won't, I won't be spoiling that for people listening with their children. But, I still remember I read this story years ago, Greg, and you, you said that this led to this whole kind of breakdown for your daughter, where it's like, well, if the Easter Bunny is not true, then the tooth fairy must not be true.

And if the tooth fairy is not true, then Santa Claus must not be real. And then she asked if this means that the stuff about Jesus and Heavenly Father is just pretend as well. And um, I wondered if you could share how you responded to that sweet question and why [00:34:00] that's in the description of your He is Risen painting.

Greg Olsen: Wow. Yeah, that was, that was a tough day for me. I mean, I think. You know, my answer to her at the time was one of trying to be reassuring that, well, this is different. Her name is Kylie. She now has a little baby of her own. Over the years, I've thought about that experience. And, and I, I, I wouldn't change my answer, but I think I get it even more that I told her this was different.

You know, I believe that Jesus and Heavenly Father are real. But it's still an issue where we believe those things because of our faith. I mean, [00:35:00] sometimes you can argue that we don't have any more concrete evidence for a statement saying that Heavenly Father and Jesus are real than we do for the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.

And perhaps we ought to look with as much compassion on people who struggle, who have doubts as we do upon, you know, a six or seven year old child who's struggling with those things. You know, how do we believe when Bad things happen to good people. How do we believe when maybe our prayers don't get answered?

How do we believe when we don't see always the kind of physical evidence that would be convincing to us? First? Life is about some of those question marks and navigating through the [00:36:00] uncertainty. and realizing that maybe, maybe it's about living by faith. In our culture, this is just Greg talking.

Sometimes I think we're kind of loose with the phrase, we know, we know this, we know that. I, I know I've had some wonderful spiritual experiences and I can interpret those a certain way for myself. But still, when it comes down to it, when I say I know those things, I know them in a different way than I know that, you know, I look out the window and I can see clouds and trees and stuff like that it, but that's okay.

I think it's all right to live with some uncertainty and some mysteries and some, some things where [00:37:00] we just. move forward the best we can without having concrete answers for things. We follow what is good, what is uplifting, what's virtuous. So yeah, those are hard questions and, and there aren't always easy answers, but I, I think.

It's okay to work through them together.

Morgan Jones Pearson: I completely agree. Greg, before we, um, transition to our last two questions, I wanted to touch on one more Christmas painting, but before I get to the Christmas painting, um, one of your most famous paintings, I think, is your lost and found painting, which I learned came as a result of your receiving a letter from a teenager who said, Why, why are there no teenagers in any of these paintings?[00:38:00]

We see Christ with children, but never with teenagers. And so as a result, you, from what I understand, set out to paint this portrayal of Christ on a park bench with a teenage boy. And you chose your son's friend, Dan, as the model. And from what I understand. Dan, that was in that painting, later on, took his own life, and your son was in a video that was produced by the church that told Dan's story in an effort to raise awareness for suicide.

But I found it interesting as I prepared for this interview that in your painting The Nativity, you used Dan's parents as models. I wondered as I was thinking through this, I was like, what is the role of a model in painting? Why did you choose Dan? And then why did you eventually have his [00:39:00] parents in a painting of The Nativity?

And it feels kind of like this full circle thing. But I wondered if you could, could share a little bit about that with us.

Greg Olsen: Oh, yeah, there's lots of interwoven backstories to that, those paintings for sure. Yeah, Dan was a good friend to our son, Nate, and a friend of our family. And he was always his own person.

In the painting, he played the part of someone, he's kind of a black sheep. He's dressed in black and next to him is this. knapsack and bedroll that represents some kind of burden that maybe he's carrying. And he's finally come to this place where he's put it down, taking it off his shoulders. He's seated next to the Savior.

And I think the Savior's just, just there to sit with him, to be with him wherever Dan is. [00:40:00] And at some point Take that burden from him. The fact that Dan went through a difficult period and ultimately ended up taking his life is a reminder. And I think my son, Nate talked about this in the video that, you know, we don't know the journey that people are on and how they might be hurting.

We never know when we can sort of be a stand in for the Savior in their lives to just sit with them, to be there. We can't blame ourselves when things like that happen, but we can be reminded that we can do our small part to be there for each other, to bear one another's burdens. It was interesting later to use Dan's parents in the nativity where In this piece, they're kind of onlookers and witnesses to another couple [00:41:00] who ultimately lose, you know, their child, just An empathetic experience for them.

Kind of, it was, I think it was almost more therapy for them than for me. And I, I often use friends and neighbors as models rather than professional models. I don't, you know, I'm just more comfortable sometimes using people that I know. So anyway, it was, it was a cool experience to kind of reenact that.

And just in the back of our minds, think about the significance of. What others have been through.

Morgan Jones Pearson: I think that that is, it's just so interesting to me to hear how art. is formed and how it communicates messages that sometimes we aren't even aware of. Certainly looking at the Nativity painting, we see Joseph and [00:42:00] Mary and the baby Jesus, but, but there's always, I feel like, deeper significance.

When we are able to see it through the eyes of the artist and maybe there's a message for all of us there in terms of there's more to life in general if we could see it through the eyes of our Heavenly Father. Greg, you once said of art, unless we got up one day and all the art was gone and we saw how much grayer the whole world was, I don't think we'll ever appreciate all that it does for us.

I wondered, what would you say art has done for you?

Greg Olsen: Oh, well, you know, I've experienced it a lot of different ways. The creative process of creating my own art has been so therapeutic. It's It's intimidating, but I think it's helped me grow. But to enjoy the art created by others [00:43:00] has been just simply a joy.

I think it's, you know, each of us have different art forms. You know, we, we sort of limit. The word art, we think of things we hang on a wall or we perform on a stage or we listen to at a symphony or something like that. But I, I think each one of us are sort of artists in our own way and that we. We create, we create energy around ourselves.

We create experiences for people who interact with us. My wife, for example, she, she doesn't think she can draw or do anything creative at all. She's an example of someone who creates. a wonderful experience for those who cross paths with her. It's like we're all little beacons or luminaries. You know, we, we light up our own experience so [00:44:00] that other people can experience through us or see things from our perspective.

We can brighten people's lives in some little way. It may seem very small to us, but it's unique. And the brighter that we can make each of those encounters, I think the more we, we serve each other, the brighter we make the whole world. And so, uh, I'm thankful for people in just an infinite number of ways who've created luminous experiences for me through their art, through their talents, through their experience, just through being themselves.

So yes, I've, it's made my life just incredibly rich and happy by experiencing through other people. [00:45:00]

Morgan Jones Pearson: I think that's such a beautiful tribute to your wife. I remember some years ago, I am not artistic in my mind at all. I, struggled to like draw stick figures. And I said that I wrote at the time I was writing for Deseret News.

And I said, yeah, I write for Deseret News. And the person said, Oh, so you're a creative. And I, in my mind was like, no, I am not a creative. Um, But I, I started to notice, you know, when I sat down at my computer with a blank Word doc in front of me, I started to feel like, Oh, I kind of have an opportunity to paint a picture in people's minds.

And I do think there are so many ways that God has given us the ability to create and, and like I said before, like, I think it all kind of comes as a result of Him trying to help us have an experience that's like His. Which is the, the role of, [00:46:00] of creator. Greg, this has been such a great, great conversation and I have enjoyed it so much.

My last question for you is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Greg Olsen: Oh, wow. That's a. Big question. I think for me, it is just trying moment by moment to

be in the world, not of the world, in the sense that, yeah, we live here in this physical existence, but somewhere mentally, consciously to See things, experience things with Christ's awareness, with his consciousness. And that happens in infinite ways in our interactions with our [00:47:00] family, our friends, when we're by ourselves to just try to inwardly, you know, be still and realize so much of what is around us is kind of a mortal illusion.

The real world is something that transcends that, and I think that's the essence of the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's, you know, the kingdom of heaven really is within us. We come here with a piece of that, and that's a place that we can go at any moment for refuge, for peace, for tranquility, for wisdom, guidance, forgiveness.

All those virtuous things I think are stored in that place. And for me, that's, you know, the gospel of Jesus [00:48:00] Christ, when the rubber hits the road is just moment by moment. Is that a place that we can. Live and try to exist and sort of live from that perspective that that awareness

Morgan Jones Pearson: I love that idea of it's all in us and I will try to keep that in mind, especially during this Christmas season I feel like can be so easy to get a little bit distracted from The essence of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

So Greg, thank you so much. This has been such a treat. I hope that you have a very, very Merry Christmas.

Greg Olsen: Thank you, Morgan. Same to you. This was delightful. Have a great day.

Morgan Jones Pearson: We are so grateful to Greg Olson for joining us. On today's episode, you can find Greg's art by visiting gregolson. com. A big thanks to Derek Campbell, as always for his help with [00:49:00] this episode. And thank you all so much for spending your time this year with us. We wish you all a very Merry Christmas and we'll look forward to being with you again in the new year.

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