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[00:00:00] Morgan Jones Pearson: Whether you're a country music fan or not, you've likely heard the song Just to See You Smile, made famous by Tim McGraw. What if I told you it was co written by a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints? Well, it's true. Tony Martin is a Nashville songwriter who has written 16 No. 1 country music hits, and who happens to have spent a good amount of time in his life.
teaching early morning seminary. The apple didn't fall far from the tree as Tony Martin is the son of another Nashville songwriter named Glenn Martin. Tony graduated from Brigham Young University in 1986 with a degree in communications and an emphasis in journalism. He worked for the Daily Journal in Chicago until his song, Baby's Gotten Good at Goodbye, was recorded by George Strait.
He continued to work for the Tennessean to support his family as he pursued songwriting, but in 2001, Martin signed an exclusive contract with Sony ATV Music Publishing. Most recently, Martin co wrote three songs on the Nashville Tribute Band's new tribute to the Book of Mormon, titled Witness.
This is all Lynn, an LDS fan. where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson. And I am so honored to have Tony Martin on the line with me today. Tony, welcome. Thank you. Happy to be here. So I have to say. start this interview by telling you, Tony, about a message that I got from your friend and my friend, Jason Deere.
He sent me this audio message because I have a seven month old baby. And so that's the easiest way for me to communicate with people. And he sent me this audio message and in it, he's telling me, he's like, we had this guy, he helped us write a few of the songs for the new Nashville tribute band album. 16 number one hits.
He's like, he, he wrote just to see you smile by Tim McGraw. And I'm thinking he's going to tell me this guy is like a Christian guy wrote these songs with us. It's really nice that he was willing to do something about the Book of Mormon. And then he goes, really faithful member of the church has like served on the, on the stake high council.
And I'm like, you mean to tell me. That the person that wrote just to see you smile as a member of the church. It was like mind blowing for me because that is one of my favorite songs of all time. Thank you.
[00:02:40] Tony Martin: Yeah, I went to primary like all of us. I love it. I got the same lessons as all of us.
[00:02:50] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I am so looking forward to hearing more about you and your story, but I want to start here. You got your start as a songwriter in a bit of a unique way. Your dad was a songwriter, as I understand it, and then you kind of had a little bit of a roundabout trajectory to becoming one yourself. So I wondered if you could tell listeners a bit about why you chose songwriting as your career.
[00:03:14] Tony Martin: Sure. In a way it kind of chose me, you know, songwriting was, that's just what my dad did. You know, like your dad goes to work, your dad comes home, and so I didn't think anything about being a songwriter or anything like that. I went to, uh, I went to BYU, thought about being an English major, then I saw there's no money in correcting people's grammar.
So I kind of got into journalism and newspaper, and I've Went on to be a reporter in the Chicago area and, uh, in Illinois and, uh, being from the South, I said Illinois when I got there and was corrected pretty quickly. Then, you know, my dad would just ask me occasionally, I'd write funny songs, parodies and funny songs while I'm driving around in between stories, you know, going from one event to another.
I didn't have a radio in my truck. So I would just sort of make up songs and things like that. And My dad heard a couple of them real funny ones. He said, have you ever written anything, try to write anything serious? I said, no, not really. So I started trying to write, you know, some serious, like, okay, let's try, let's see what you, you know, would come up with.
And the 10th song that I wrote was recorded by George Strait and. You know, you're thinking, okay, it'll be on an album and it'll make me a few dollars and kind of pay, pay some bills. Cause at that point I was just a, mostly a cub reporter starting out and every month, you know, I had my wife and we had a little baby, uh, our oldest girl probably.
You know, she's maybe like three, four years old. And so every month I've just had to make a decision. Do I feed us or do I house us? Cause the money's real tight. So I thought, okay, well this I'll make his, I'll make George Strait's album. And then that'll, it'll help us out a little bit. And then my dad called me and said, you're the first single.
And so we had baby Scott and good goodbye. And it was a number one song. And so then I took a job down in Tennessee writing for newspapers down here. Pretty soon the hobby paid better than my job. So I just switched to songwriting. I've been doing it 30 something years, you know, amazing.
[00:05:28] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, when King George records your song, you know that you're, uh, you're doing all right.
But I would imagine you don't have one hit and then it's just smooth sailing.
[00:05:39] Tony Martin: No, no. When I got the cut on George Strait, as far as I was concerned, I hit the country music sweepstakes lottery, right? Okay. I just, Hey, this is a, this is a great thing, but that, but if you're going to say, okay, well, let's, let's do this as a career and I show up.
And they go, boy, we like your George Strait song, play us something else. And I've got these nine other songs. And boy, they just went through those like pass, pass, pass, pass, pass. And you start realizing you can't have enough good songs. You need as many as you can. So you start writing them every day. So, uh, for a while there, I was working at the newspaper and writing songs.
On the side. And so I was doing both until it started to make enough money. And then I just sort of slid over and I haven't been, I guess I left that job in 1989. Wow. Being a newspaper reporter.
[00:06:35] Morgan Jones Pearson: So. Okay. So I'm curious, Tony, how do you approach songwriting? Is it, do you usually have an idea first or do you sit down with the intention of writing something?
With kind of a blank slate,
[00:06:52] Tony Martin: uh, I kind of, uh, it's just however it comes, wherever it starts, you know, if you look, if you are a painter and it's on a canvas, start whatever, whether it's the color of the pain or it's this corner of the canvas, it doesn't matter. It kind of. Kind of like the Holy Ghost, you know, it can touch you in a lot of different ways.
Maybe just somebody says something that's a, a line and then that makes you think of something else. And then you think, well, that'd be a good song where you hear, you get a little piece of a melody or you're co writing and they've got a melody and you go, boy, that's exactly what I'm trying to say with this other thing.
So it can go a lot of different ways. The main thing is, is this, I just try to, My antenna's up every day. If I hear it, think it, whatever it's up and listening for it, then Monday through Friday, I'm trying to do it. I'm trying to ride. I come in, I'll sit in the room, even if by myself or with a co writer, and we just start trying to do it.
[00:07:53] Morgan Jones Pearson: You mentioned sometimes having a co writer. I wonder When you are writing with someone else, is that harder? Is it easier? What has that taught you about collaboration?
[00:08:08] Tony Martin: I think music is a, is a kind of lends itself to be a collaborative art. You can sit and do it by yourself. A lot of people do, and they're great songs, but there's, it's suddenly because writing, you're a writer, you, it's a lonely sport.
You know, it's just, it's a lonely occupation. You're by yourself, you're in your thought, you're in your head. As soon as you're collaborating, there's another, there's another influence in the room. So everything that you do is now added and mixed with this and it makes a new thing. It makes a new thing that you wouldn't necessarily have come up by yourself or they've come up by themselves, but it, it collaborates in there.
And at times it can be incredibly fun. It's just a lot more fun than sitting in the room by yourself. Yeah, I'm sure Nashville is a big collaborative town. You know, there's a lot of, a lot of co writing going on.
[00:09:07] Morgan Jones Pearson: That makes a lot of sense. I love something that I've read that you said in 2017, you were interviewed and you were asked about if you could give advice to young songwriters, what would you say?
And you said, writers, right? It's a verb too. So right. If I told you that your 101st song was going to be cut. or be a hit, what would you do? You'd write 100 songs. You've had 16 number one hits now. What percentage, I'm curious, what percentage of those songs that you've written would you say turn out to be hits and how many has no one ever heard?
[00:09:47] Tony Martin: Well, it's very low. It's very low. If, if this was baseball, not only are you not going on into the hall of fame, you're, you're not even making your high school baseball team. Okay. Your batting average would be horrible because we're writing, we're writing thousands of songs. So if you write a thousand songs, to get, let's say, even a hundred cut out of that hundred, maybe 10 of them are viable.
Get out into the world, get heard on somebody's album, and maybe one or two of those goes on the radio, gets heard. It's, it's, uh, your, your percentages. And then there's a time, I have to say this too, there's also a time in which what you're doing is what the market wants to hear, what people want to hear.
And so you can get on a good run and you think, wow, I'm killing it. I'm doing it. You know, this is happening. Well, and then all of a sudden it just moves. And now you're back to that. Okay. I need a thousand songs to get 10, to get one. And even then you can do those numbers for a long time and not, it just.
I mean, I'm a writer slash nothing. I don't sing them, I don't produce them, I don't do anything. I just simply write them. And so being that, I have to constantly be thinking, What is it that these artists want to say? That all these people want to hear. And so I'm, I'm by myself guessing my guts out, you know, it's what it is.
[00:11:22] Morgan Jones Pearson: Tony, do you typically know the artist? Like I know in the George Strait situation, he just happened to hear your song. But in some cases, do you know, like I'm trying to write a song for.
[00:11:36] Tony Martin: Yeah, sometimes, sometimes you do that, especially if you're writing with them. If they're in the room with you, that's a very easy thing to do.
They're right there. I wouldn't say that, or I don't like, oh, I like this, or this is what I'm looking for. And that's a very easy thing, easier thing to do. The rest of the time. It just doesn't work for me. If I try to write, oh, this would be great for Tim McGraw. I, after we had just see smile, we had a couple of album cuts, Tim.
We kept trying to like, they'd call us, give a song, give a song. And I think, well, this is perfect for Tim McGraw and George straight cut it. And I think, okay, well, I got one perfect for George Drake and Keith Urban would cut it. I don't, I don't, I don't pretend to know. I think the only thing that helps me in the room.
is I'll try what I like. I have to like, it has to hold my interest. And then if it, if I like it and it holds my interest, then there's a segment. of people out there that it wouldn't, they would also like it too.
[00:12:36] Morgan Jones Pearson: Okay. So I have a couple of follow up questions based on what you just said. One, I, as I listened to some of the songs that you've written prepping for this interview, I couldn't help but think, okay, here is this guy who has been married, happily married for years.
As I understand it, you have grown children and yet you're probably trying to write. Love songs, many of them that feel exciting and new. How much do you write from your own experience and how much is it tapping into the experiences of others?
[00:13:12] Tony Martin: Yeah, there is a point where you go, how much does a 64 year old make know what a 13 year old girl wants to hear?
If I think like that, I'm retired. I don't think I go, I think it's all from your experience. And your imagination, right? If I had to live every song, I'd be worn out. I'd be spent. I couldn't, I couldn't do it. All that ups and downs and stuff. I'd just rather just observe other people and use my imagination.
I can imagine what that, you know, to be like. And then you find, you sort of find that thing. And then when you write it, you're playing it. I'm done. You can see where people respond and where they don't respond. And then when they respond, then you go, okay. But it has to come from some real place for them to respond.
And the only real place that I can get is me. That's as real as I can be. So if I even writing from what I see, maybe my daughter's going through, I've written that job. Okay, they're going through this. And I feel for them. Then I try to switch places with 'em for a minute and write the song. But the danger I get in most of the time is I come from a fatherly point of view.
even though I don't mean to, you know, like when a Taylor Swift starting out in her career and she's singing about high school and breakups said, I'm gonna go, it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. You're gonna be lots of boys. You'll see, yeah, you'll be all right. I would ruin all those songs. You know?
Right. So I, I think there's a place to where you don't try to do. What you can't do you do what you do from your experience and then you just make it as personal but universal as you can, you know, that somebody else can put their self. And that I'm always amazed, like just see smile, people say, Oh, it's my favorite song.
Makes me so happy. It makes me think of my grandmother and I'm thinking, I hate that you and your grandmother broke up like it, but, uh, you know, or thank you for not listening to the verses, you know, so you're just looking for those things that, like I say, they're universal. but personal. The person can put themselves in it.
[00:15:28] Morgan Jones Pearson: Okay. So my next question related to songwriting is you've said that you feel like your gift is that you know what a good country music song sounds like. And I have to tell you, Tony, I am a country music lover. So I would disagree with this sentiment that I've often heard related to country music. But there are some people that say like, Oh, well, to be a good country song.
You just need a reference to a pickup truck or your dog. Uh, what would you say to those people that are clearly delusional?
[00:16:04] Tony Martin: Well, first of all, you can be very happy in your delusions. So I enjoy it. If you think it needs a truck in the song, enjoy your truck songs. Uh, but I was in London, my wife and I were in London and we saw where Dolly Parton was adding shows.
She had already sold out five shows. She sings about. No trucks. But yet, London loved her, and she's obviously country. People will say, country, well, it just needs a fiddle and a steel. But Willie Nelson has neither one in his band. There's no steel player. You go watch him live, there's no steel player, there's no fiddle player.
Country, to me, is more this than anything. I always say, you know, the rock and roll world, pop things, when we're in that, you can be kind of hip, you can say cool things, and people can go, I don't know what you're talking about, but uh, you know, it's hip, it's cool, it feels real good, right? They're moving on that.
Country is a little bit more linear and a little bit more of a story. You know exactly what's going on in a country song. Story songs, They're talking about the emotion. It's just, it's more that, that's about the only thing that I can see that is slightly different. And that's not saying a rock and roll song can't do the same thing or a pop song can't do the same thing.
It's just country, and country can get kind of esoterical, you know, and poetic. But trucks, any of this thing you think's in it, it's, it's not. It's, it's, it's just, uh, all music is great. But when country's great, it's just really great because it's just, it just comes from the heart. It's a, you understand the story, you identify with it, you going through what they're going through.
[00:18:00] Morgan Jones Pearson: I'm, I wonder, how would you say that songwriting, you kind of referenced this earlier when you said, Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's working for you and you'll have a couple hits in a row and then there will come a time where it's not working as much. How would you say that songwriting has changed over time in your career, especially as it relates to country music?
[00:18:25] Tony Martin: Well, it's, it's, it's always changing and I would, uh, within my, you know, four decades of doing it, plus seeing what my dad, you know, cause I grew up around in the, around the business and around all these people, it's always changing. But the change over, I've at least seen that three, four times, you know, where it's just completely changes over.
And the artist who used to be on country radio, all of a sudden not on country radio and it's a new group. And it has to change. If it doesn't change, it's going to die, right? It's going to be an old art form that only, you know, goes back into the archives. So it's going to change. The changes now, you know, also, uh, the medium, the way people use Spotify and streaming have changed it.
It's, it can speed it up. I noticed when I write now with a lot of young guys, they're using the, the digital tools that are available. We used to just show up with a, with a legal pad, your pen or pencil and your guitar, and then we usually had, you know, like a little tape, a little cassette recorder had the little microphone on there and that's how you, you did your work tapes.
Now you go in with these guys and they, they've got the whole. It's like a little studio in a box, and they can just build a record as you're writing it. So it's constantly kind of, it's always changing, the tools are changing, the, the mindsets, what, what the rules were, what you can do, because you hear a lot of the rap influence in country now.
Right. You hear a lot of the, the, uh, the beats that they can do off of the digital world. But if you'll notice, back at the, again, back at that core, they're talking about, You know exactly what they're talking about. It's still kind of linear. It's a story. You understand it. Kind of they're speaking to their, their audience that way.
They're just using different tools and different ways to do it.
[00:20:30] Morgan Jones Pearson: So I want to now transition a little bit to your experience within the gospel. You mentioned that you went to primary growing up. So I'm assuming you grew up in the church. Is that right?
[00:20:45] Tony Martin: Yeah, I was born in, born in Atlanta and then my dad came to Nashville to be in the music business.
Now his side of the family is Baptist. My mom's was, was LDS coming from Utah. Okay. And, uh, when we moved to Nashville, my dad's going to try to be in the music business. When I say I went to primary, primary was downstairs in the basement of a little house down in East Nashville, Englewood area, just outside.
And, uh, so, you know, I grew up with all those primary colors are one, two, three, red, yellow, blue. I knew I caught up through all those songs. I grew up, um, as a teenager going, going to church and doing it. So it's been a, it's been a huge. It's an influence in my life.
[00:21:30] Morgan Jones Pearson: Do you feel like you've always had a strong testimony or have there been points in which that was kind of solidified?
[00:21:40] Tony Martin: Well, my story is like my mom and dad got divorced when I was a teenager, right at the time when you'd be going on a mission. And it's not that I ever doubted the gospel and everything, but you're thinking, well, if I'm going to go somewhere and I'm going to, You know, talk about this for two years and help people and serve and talk about it.
I'd always heard people going, Oh, I read the Book of Mormon. I did these things and I got this testimony. I'm thinking, I don't have a problem with the church or anything. I just, I guess maybe I need one of those, you know, so I thinking, okay. I'm gonna pray. I'll ask if this is, you know, true. I'll get, I'll get my own story on this thing and, and, uh, I'm praying I got an answer.
I did not expect. In fact, I questioned it for a second. The answer was you already know. I'm like, what do you mean I already know? I'm asking because I, and then I, immediately I knew. I do already know. I know Joseph Smith was a prophet. I, I just believe him. I believe that 14 year old boy when he says, I wanted to know an answer to a question and I read in your scriptures in the Bible, if any man lacks wisdom, go ask God.
I went and asked him and he gave me an answer. I believe him. And if I believe him. And I believe the Book of Mormon. I believe this church. I believe everything there is to it, because I believe that 14 year old boy's telling me is the truth. And he didn't get all the answers when he did that prayer. He had to keep living and get more answers to more questions.
And all the answers weren't easy to do, but he did them all. And I just, I believe him. So I thought, okay, I'm going. I already know. That's a gift. I think that's a gift from God. You know, like it's given to some to know Christ. It's given to some to believe on. I think I just always believed it.
[00:23:37] Morgan Jones Pearson: I love that because I think that that is an experience that a lot of people listening probably can relate to.
I wonder, so because this project that you've worked on with Nashville Tribute Band is specifically Geared toward the Book of Mormon, how would you say that the Book of Mormon has blessed or impacted your life personally?
[00:24:04] Tony Martin: I think it's an additional right. To me. The Book of Mormon makes me believe the Bible even more, and the Bible makes me believe the Book of Mormon even more It.
The two make me believe that God cares about all his children through all time. It just, it's added, it just, you know, you, you read it and you think like, you know, you start thinking those phrases are in your, in your head and in your heart and they're just in the way you do things and think things. And that thing makes you think of this Bible verse or makes you think of this Book of Mormon verse, the stories.
the consistency across it, that Jesus is the cross. That's, that's the benefit to me.
[00:24:49] Morgan Jones Pearson: I completely agree. I think I've been thinking a lot the last week, actually, about how the Book of Mormon helps us understand why, what Christ taught and what he did in the Bible. It helps us understand why that matters for us, because I think we understand more fully the atonement of Jesus Christ, and because of that, it becomes the mission of Jesus Christ becomes a lot more personal for us.
Uh, Tony, had you ever written any kind of religious songs prior to working on the songs for this project?
[00:25:27] Tony Martin: Not, not, not a lot. You know, I don't tend to, I don't know what it is. I just don't tend to write Christmas songs. I don't tend to write a lot of religious songs. I think sometimes it's in there. I was a seminary teacher when I wrote Jacob's Ladder, but you know, it just has.
It, I think it's kind of woven in there, but not being very overt about it. It just sort of woven in, in some of the, the, the things that come in there. Like I said, I think I, I got on the edge of it without being just an out now. If somebody made me sit down and write a hymn. I'd be very despondent. I'd be very, I'd be looking for a co writer who wrote a lot.
I'm thinking I've got to help them because I'm not, I just, I don't know what it is. I don't think about it. In fact, when Jason and Dan Truman, all those guys who are good people doing a great thing, they. You know, Jason said, Hey, help me. I'm going to do this thing about Joseph Smith. And then each one he'd come, he'd sort of talk to me about it.
And I just go, I don't know, I don't know how I would help. I don't know how I'd help. I just don't think like that. And so I just sort of let it go by each time it was this time. And it really had to do with, um, Jason called and he said, look, I got an idea for a song and it would be like, uh, about Lehi's dream.
And it'd be like, where am I in Lehi's dream? And I thought, oh, that's kind of interesting. And that was just interesting to me on, uh, some level and, uh, didn't think much about it. Time all went on. And then I was thinking about it one morning and I thought. I just think it'd be a great song if it just started out.
Old man said he saw a tree and that made it incredibly interesting to me. So Jason and I got immediately together and wrote That old man's dream.
[00:27:30] Morgan Jones Pearson: That one is my favorite one that you wrote. I love that idea of where am I in the dream. And I wondered, I wanted to ask you actually, why do you think Lehi's vision of the tree of life and the iron rod, why is it just as relevant today as it was 600 years before Christ?
[00:27:57] Tony Martin: It's a very simple story told with very simple symbols and then the beautiful thing is then we get some, okay, so the old man, he tells them he has a dream and it's pretty, you know, you look at the face of it, it seems very interesting, but I mean, or very obvious what it is, but then you have this next.
person, his son, who goes, I want to fully understand this. So he prays and he gets the answer what all these different symbols mean. So this, the dream or the, the symbolism of the story can carry forward because we've got the code to it. So it's good for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. But we also think, Because the Book of Mormon is given more for our time.
There's not a symbol in there that we don't know what a tree is, or a path, or a rod, or a hat, you know, the fruit of that tree, or a building that's spacious, and everybody's dressed nice, and they're making fun of the world. We, you, you can, you go, yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's the world I'm living in. I recognize that world.
I recognize it. You can, it's easy to get lost. It's easy to get pulled aside and I understand now what this rod, why I hold on to it. Sometimes it feels more like a thread than a rod, you know, tough times and, and the past feels more like I'm in the ocean and I'm going holding a piece of thread and I'm saying, okay, this is attached to a saving boat.
I'm not letting go of this thread.
[00:29:31] Morgan Jones Pearson: Uh, Tony, I feel like I want you to be my seminary teacher. But I want to come back really quickly. You just like casually dropped in that you were a seminary teacher when you wrote Jacob's Ladder, which I could sing you. I'm not going to, but I could sing you that song right now.
I'm, I wonder, like, how did your seminary teaching influence the writing of that song?
[00:29:57] Tony Martin: It's not. necessarily specific to just teaching seminary or anything. Anything you're immersed in is going to show up in your writing. All right, you're going to be influenced by whatever world you surround yourself in. If you surround yourself with family, you're going to, family type themes are going to kind of get in this thing.
If you, if you go to church on Sunday and you listen to, you know, country music, yeah, they're in the bar on Saturday night, but they're in the pews on Sunday morning. So there's those things are being mixed because that's the world they inhabit. So seminary just made some of those things, I think just come up.
in the, in the writing. And then they happen to be the songs that people click with. Right. Because it's all in your head that Diamond Rio has a lot of Bible types of references in it. And I remember when Diamond Rio was cutting it, they called me and they said, listen, you know, you got this line. Work out your own salvation and, you know, we're all washed in the blood.
We're saved, you know, not works, faith, not works, grace, not works. And I, I had the ready answer cause I'm teaching seminary. I said, that's our boy, Paul, Philippians 2, 12, work out your own salvation. I left out the scary part with fear and trembling, so you're welcome. So you know, it's just, I think it just influences you in that sense.
I mean, I've taught seminary maybe. Three times I've been a seminary teacher, been teaching Sunday school now for nine years straight. Wow. Was doing the mids, doing the mid singles and now I'm doing gospel doctrine back at the, the church, uh, in my ward. Uh, I substitute for our, CES leader. I guess he has an institute class for the college age kids and I'm his, uh, I come off the bench when he needs a substitute and stuff.
So it's going to stay, I mean, for some reason or another, the Lord's been happy to keep that influence in my life so that it might show up in my, in my work. But as far as. singing, you know, writing a lot of songs. I'll be interested to see, because I've never had a song I thought would be in the primary book or in the hymnal.
I think Janice Cat Perry is a genius. I love, I love what she does. And I think the Lord specifically went, this is what I'm going to have you do. And she wrote a child's prayer, which kills me every time. Primary gets up and sings that, and I'm just, I go, I'll never write anything like angels will sing that.
They're not going to sing my song, but they'll sing hers.
[00:32:45] Morgan Jones Pearson: We, uh, my husband and I sing every night before bed to our little girl. Um, and I have been grateful many times for Janice Cat Perry and the beautiful songs that she's written. Um, Tony, have you ever had, I know this, like you said, this is kind of your first time delving into religious songwriting, but I would imagine you probably have had opportunities to share the gospel.
Throughout your career, um, even if the songs are not spiritual in nature.
[00:33:21] Tony Martin: Yeah, I, I, you know, in the beginning, you know, people, once they know who you are, you just say, this is who I am. Nashville's a very friendly, accepting kind place. These, these are very nice people. You grew up in the south, it's kind of the.
the culture and the tradition, you know, and Nashville's that to the nth degree and it's very good. So once, once they knew who I was, what I stood for, that's never been an issue. I never have found it hard to live the gospel in any way. And over time, I'm the expert. You want to know what the LDS think about something?
They'll ask me, well, what do y'all think about this? Or what do you think about this? And I, you know, I tell them, I share it and stuff. And, uh, they. Without having to even seek it, it just kind of finds you. I had a, while they were building the temple here, I had a friend of mine who lived nearby, Franklin, he'd drive by it every day coming into Nashville and he would call me every so often and give me updates,
[00:34:26] Morgan Jones Pearson: construction
[00:34:26] Tony Martin: updates, what's going on.
And he called me one day, he said, Hey, they put your horn player up on you, up on your temple. Oh yeah, that's Marona.
That's in Revelations, you know, the guy up there. But he just saw it like a horn section. Yeah.
[00:34:48] Morgan Jones Pearson: He's like country, country music, but where, what kind of song are we playing? Yeah.
[00:34:53] Tony Martin: Oh no. He asked me one day, he said, why ain't he a fiddle player? He should have a fiddle player up
[00:34:57] Morgan Jones Pearson: there. Amazing. Well, Tony, before we wrap up, I wanted to touch on, I listened in preparation to a conversation that was actually recorded between you and Jason Deere and.
You talked about a couple of things that I just found fascinating. One was you talked about how God created all music notes. You said that you once asked somebody like, play, play me an evil note. And they played like a minor and you were like, well, that's, that's not. There are no evil notes. I wondered why has that been an important thing for you to realize and to share with other people?
[00:35:38] Tony Martin: I did some little panel one time with a lot of, how do they say, teenagers, maybe like youth conference kind of thing. And, uh, They had a few of us on the panel with somebody who was sportscaster and somebody announced music business. And a young guy said, man, he said, I would love to be a drummer when I grow up.
I want to be a drummer. I love drums, but you know, I can't be a drummer. I was like, well, I don't understand why I can't be a drummer. And he's like, well, you know, the music business bad, you know, you'll, you know, it's like, it'll bring it, it'll pull you down. Like, like the whole. Like the whole orchestras in the great spacious building.
And it really kind of bummed me. It bummed me out. I'm thinking God needs drummers. There's no reason why you can't be a drummer and be a good latterday saint, a good Christian, a good person, there's no reason at all. And so kind of, so I started thinking about that a lot. And when people would say these kinds of things, I just, I then I asked 'em, I said, well, somebody please go play me an evil note on that piano sitting over there in the corner.
And now it invariably, like I say, somebody will go play in a minor, right? And I said, that's sad. Maybe it can, you know, I said, that's not evil. Nothing evil happened when you played it. These are just notes. This earth is, God gave us all of its good. It's all good. What are you going to do with it? What are you going to do with it?
You can do anything with it. Okay. That's kind of where I was coming from in a response that I think the Lord is bringing up. wants good people to make music. Devil don't need to have all the good tunes. God can have really great and has great, great music and great, great musicians. And some of them are asked to be in a little corner.
Some of them are asked to say, Hey, like Sister Perry, write these songs for primary. Trust me on this. And then they, they flood the world. The beautiful thing about a song is, once I write it, you know, we often, we will call them our children. You know, cause we love these little songs and stuff. But I call them my children because I just hope they'll get out in the world and do something good.
You know, touch somebody, be somebody. Cause once it's out there, it's really not even mine anymore. Okay, my just to see you smile is not your just to see you smile. Now it's your, it means something to you and stuff. In fact, most of the time, if I'm in a room and it's kind of understood, somebody wants to say, Oh, he wrote, I'm like, don't you say a word, don't say a word, let them all have theirs.
It's, it's theirs now. It's, it's theirs.
[00:38:26] Morgan Jones Pearson: I love that you said it's it becomes your song and and you specifically said just to see you smile. My cousin and my brother, they're both really talented singers. And I have this video on my cell phone of the two of them singing just to see you smile on our family beach trip.
And that's what that song always reminds me of. And so I love that every song has the ability to Transcribed be something for somebody else. Another thing that you talked about in that same conversation was you said that, uh, when the Lord says he tells us in our minds and in our hearts, you said to you in your mind, that's a lyric in your heart.
That's a melody. And you highlighted the fact that the Lord speaks to us in different ways. Why do you think that that's so important to recognize that the Lord speaks to everyone differently?
[00:39:17] Tony Martin: Because you, you hear these, you hear somebody else's experience and you're thinking, well, I'm going to get one like that.
They tell their tithing story because they had a struggle paying tithing and then they finally did it and then they got a check. from the insurance company in the mail and you're going, well, I could use a check in the mail. And it's never come. No, it's not going to come because here's why it's not going to come from me.
I already believe in tithing. I don't need a faith promoting experience for tithing. For me, I'm almost more afraid not to pay tithing. That would be the test for me. It's like, oh, you don't have to pay it this month. I would not believe you. So it's, it's, I think, what I think is great about that is that I can sit.
Let's say in a general conference session, and they can be talking about something that I have. Oh, yeah, I've been doing which I love by the way. Oh, yeah, I got no problem with that. I don't smoke. You know, you know, I do that. I go to church. I do that. But sitting in there, they can say things that make me think of one thing that makes me think of another thing.
It makes me think of something and then the Holy Ghost can say, that's what I want to talk to you about. That's what I'd like to talk to you about. So even with the students, a lot of times they'll be reading scriptures and they'll say, because we all know what a stupor of thought is, right? We've been to high school.
So we, we, you know, mind wanders off and you feel sometimes you go, well, I need to go back and read what I read. I said, no, ask yourself when your mind wandered off. What were you thinking about? That may be what God's trying to talk to you about. The scriptures can be that springboard, general conference, Sunday school, a sacrament talk, your friends talking.
Anything can be a springboard and the Spirit can go personally. That's a huge, that's a huge thing, right? That this Holy Spirit can make something just personal for you. To me, it's the lyric and the melody. That's how I've been. All of a sudden, it feels right. It seems right. It goes together. It's perfect.
You know, I love that idea.
[00:41:24] Morgan Jones Pearson: That's so good. The last thing that I wanted to touch on from that conversation, you said that, uh, you often have had conversations with young people that ask you, you know, they say that they're not sure that living the gospel of Jesus Christ is worth it. And you talked about your response to, to young people that ask that question.
I wondered if you could share a little bit of your thoughts on that, because I thought They were so good. And you don't have to say the same thing you said in that conversation. Just whatever you'd say now.
[00:41:58] Tony Martin: It's good because I don't, I don't remember that conversation.
[00:42:02] Morgan Jones Pearson: Can you recall this from six years ago and tell me exactly?
No. I just wondered what, what would you say to somebody now? Why is it worth it in your mind?
[00:42:10] Tony Martin: So at the time you were talking about a lot of people they hear things and they and then they it shakes them it's shaking and that's okay you can get shaken I I see it kind of like a seesaw right you're up on it with the you're struggling life it's real safe to be on one end of the seesaw up or down and then when you but as you go towards the middle Ooh, it gets a little, okay, I understand that and you, you want to run to one side of the other real quick, right?
But I think the middle of the season, that's where life is that find that balance, find that balance. And it's a, it's a constant go for it. So, okay. With my mind right now as what it is, is here's why I think it's worth it. If someone comes to me and what they're doing is they're trying to take something away from me that I, that it gives me a foundation.
It gives me an anchor. It gives me a place that has given me great comfort, uh, in times that I've needed. It's given me direction when I needed it. It, it's a center, okay? And they want to take that away from me. I would say. What are you going to give me in return? What are you going to replace it with? And I've never met anybody yet that offered me anything else in return.
They just want to take that away from me and give me nothing of value. And I take that as there ain't nothing. worth more than that. They just want to take it. They just want me to put it down. And sometimes I wonder why you want me to put it down. I don't get it. I don't, I don't understand why you want me to do that.
Why would never let anybody take something of value away from me without giving me something of equal or greater value. That's why it's worth it to me.
[00:44:03] Morgan Jones Pearson: Yeah. Well, I, I loved that thought so much. And I think that it's significant. I have watched friends and family struggle with their faith in recent years.
And um, for me, I just feel like the gospel to your point has given me so much. And when I think about what my life would look like without it, it's not, not a very happy thought.
[00:44:35] Tony Martin: Well, I mean, if, if you take it away from me, let's just say, okay, the main thing is well, I don't go to church. anymore. All right, so there's two hours I get free to do whatever I want.
What am I probably going to do with it? Nothing, because I love doing nothing. And, but the two hours that I go there, that I pull myself out of the world, and I sit for a little while, and I let my thoughts be about something else, make all the other stuff mean something. Now all the other stuff ain't just a bunch of nothing.
It's something that leads to something. It's worth something. It helps other, you get opportunities to serve. and help other people.
[00:45:16] Morgan Jones Pearson: I love that. Okay. This has been so fun for me. I just, I love, I love country music. I love the songs. I love the messages and I love getting to pick the brain of somebody that's written some of the, some of my favorite songs.
Um, but my last question for you is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?
[00:45:40] Tony Martin: Yeah, put that one on there and you're going, okay, that's a, that's a, that's a question. That's a, that's a really good question. So I'm thinking about it, you know, cause you hear the phrase all in, right?
[00:45:51] Morgan Jones Pearson: Yeah. It's everywhere.
[00:45:54] Tony Martin: Yeah. Just me as a writer. I got to go, okay, if I was writing a song about this and I was going to use that phrase all in, I got to go, well, what do people think all in means? All right. And it's changed over my lifetime. What all in is it used to be old folks would be really tired from working hard all day and they go, I'm all in and then it became about taking a big risk.
And I don't think any of those things apply. It means now to what you completely committed. to something. So what does it mean to be all in the gospel to me? Here's, here's kind of where I sort of landed. If I'm all in and I'm going to put everything I've got in it, I've got what? I've got my health, my strength, my time, my talent.
I've got my resources I've been blessed with. I'm going to put all that in, but then at the, but then I come to the thought, that ain't mine. The Lord gave me all of that. That's all his. The earth is his footstool. I'm healthy because he blesses me with health. I'm successful because he blesses me. I could do all the same stuff and not be successful.
He's blessed me with all this stuff. It's all his. So to be, to give him all of that, I don't fill all in. There's only one thing that's mine, that I can give him. And it's my will, my will. When Christ sat in the garden of Gethsemane, And he goes, if there's any other way to do this, I'd be open to discussing it, right?
Let this cut pass by me, but not my will. Thy will be done. He was all in. He was all in. At that point, his will was submitted and surrendered to God's and that's where I go all in. I have to give him my will and go his way is better. And it's not enough to believe in Christ. I believe Him. I believe Christ.
I believe what He says. I believe that giving God your will is the best way. It's the only way.
[00:48:00] Morgan Jones Pearson: Tony, that was so, it was so neat to hear you, uh, answer that question in a way that only you could. And I am really, really grateful. Tony, this has been such a delight. Thank you so, so much for your time.
[00:48:14] Tony Martin: Uh, you're welcome.
I hope it does some good.
[00:48:21] Morgan Jones Pearson: A huge thank you to Tony Martin for joining us on today's episode. You can find Witness, a Nashville tribute to the Book of Mormon, in Deseret Bookstores now, or you can stream it wherever you stream music. Thanks to Derek Campbell of Mix It 6 Studios for his help with this episode and thank you for listening.
We'll look forward to being with you again next week.
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