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[00:00:00] Did you know that research shows that the happiest Olympic medalists are the bronze medalists because they compare themselves to those who didn't medal at all. Meanwhile, silver medalists compared themselves to the gold medalists and are the most unhappy of the three. But this same research found that even the majority of gold medalists.

Suffer from clinical depression in the three months following the achievement of their goal. Why is this right after the conversation you're about to hear with Rowdy Gaines? I read an interview with Arthur Brooks, a professor at Harvard Business School who teaches a course on happiness, and he shared this research.

In this article, he discussed what is called the arrival fallacy, which is the fallacy that would explain this phenomenon with Olympic medalist. After reading this, I had to know what rowdy thought of this research. He said the arrival fallacy made sense because in his words, your focus is so strong for so many years, and most cases it is years that when it's over, you feel an emptiness.

That is so hard to describe. Because it takes so much outta your life and really you block everything else out in your life. But he also said this of his own gold medals. I don't really think of it bringing me lasting happiness when I won. The, the feeling of accomplishment, though I will say lasts forever.

Uh, it's not something that I. I took for granted. And, uh, I still look back, you know, 41 years later and think of it as something that I was, uh, very proud to have fulfilled. I found myself thinking a lot about this. How did Rowdy put his gold medal in Olympic success and proper perspective? I think you'll see over the course of this interview that Rowdy Gaines is an example of what Arthur Brook said in the same article about people who find [00:02:00] true meaning in their lives.

He said they do a few specific things. They ask deep questions. They fall in love. They look upward. They're very spiritual or philosophical. They find calling in their work, not just achievement in their work end quote. I think you'll see Rowdy Gaines has done just that. Rowdy Gaines competed for the United.

States in the 1984 Olympic Games winning three gold medals in swimming. After retiring, he became the voice of swimming for NBC. He has been inducted into the International Swimming Hall of Fame and the United States, Olympic and Paralympic Hall of Fame. He works with many charitable organizations including Step Into Swim, which has funded swimming lessons for more than 300,000 kids since 2012.

He and his wife, Judy, who you will have the pleasure of hearing in this podcast are the parents of four daughters.

This is all in an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson, and I am so honored to have Rowdy Gaines on the line with me today. Rowdy, welcome. Thank you, Morgan. Good to be with you. Well, rowdy. You are a legend. In my own mind.

Oh, please. No, I will, I, I told you this in an email, but my husband and I were watching the last summer Olympics and we were like, man, rowdy Gaines just does such a good job, and my husband, he looks up your name and he's like. Rowdy Gaines is a member of the church, so that was a revelation to us. And ironically, I was able to get in contact with your wife through social media, and she helped make this interview happen.

So shout out to Judy, but I wanna start out rowdy. You started swimming, I understand at a very young age you [00:04:00] lived next to a lake, but you didn't start swimming competitively until you were 17 years old. Is that right? That's right. That's right. Morgan. I, I learned how to swim at a very early age because we, I grew up in Florida and water's sort of the fabric of who you are if you grew up in Florida, especially Winter Haven, Florida, which had or has 120 something lakes.

I grew up on a lake my whole life and so my, my mom and dad thought it was very important that I knew how to swim at a very early age. So I learned how to swim before I learned how to walk. Actually, I was nine months old, um, but didn't start swimming on. The competitive side until I was 17. I was a junior in high school.

Wow. And so tell me a little bit about what it's like to discover that you are exceptionally good at something. Like you were at swimming because you started swimming at 17, you ended up getting a full ride to Auburn and then you were dominant at Auburn. So what is it like to figure out, wow, like I am unbelievably good at this?

Well, I, it. I, I knew it was a blessing. There, there, there's no question about it, because it did happen fast. You know, when I first started, I, I wasn't very good. I didn't own a pair of goggles. I landed my jean cutoffs, you know, and couldn't really afford to get a, a swimsuit or goggles. And I had tried out for five different sports Morgan before I even tried out for swimming, and I got cut in each one.

So swimming was sort of just next in line. In fact, I was gonna try out for the track and field team the following week. Uh, if I got swimming, swimming didn't work out. Yeah, swimming didn't work out. So, um, but fortunately I didn't get cut and it was still pretty slow. But I think by my senior year I knew that.

This was the sport that I wanted to be, wanted to be dedicated to. So I was gonna do everything in my power to, you know, as long as it was morally and legally right, to be able to be the best I could be. And so, you know, I went [00:06:00] to libraries and checked out books on swimming. And again, I. I don't profess to tell kids to do this, but back then I would sneak into motels because they had heated pools.

Indoor pools? Yeah. No outdoor pools, but they were heated. There were no indoor pools in Florida. Okay. Um, so, but like I'd sneak into one and swim for about a week and I'd get kicked out and then the next one, and so there were like four or five motels that I would, you know, just kind of make the roundabout.

To, to swim in the morning because we didn't have morning practice. And finally, I think the last manager came up to me after about a month and said, just go ahead and swim. Oh, gave up on kicking me out. But two and a half years after I started, I, I broke my first world record. So it, it did happen really fast.

And, you know, I started kind of dreaming about going to the Olympics. At around that time. Okay. I was gonna ask you that when the Olympics started to feel like a realistic goal. Yeah. So you, you start having this dream of going to the Olympics and in 1980. Yep. You were kind of on the top of your game, expected to do well in the Olympics, and then you find out that Jimmy Carter has said that the US are going to boycott the Moscow Olympics.

Do you remember where you were when you found that out? Yeah. Dude, I know exactly where I was. I was a junior at Auburn University. We had, uh, my two roommates and I had ordered pizza after practice and we were eating pizza. And back then, you know, there's no internet or anything. Right. You have to watch the nightly news.

Mm-hmm. And we were watching the news because we knew there were rumblings about it. And I remember Walter Cronkite back then, you know, famous newsman came on television and, and said that, you know, here was Jimmy Carter. And they went to him and [00:08:00] announcing that, you know. I don't know what other countries are going to do, but we are not going to participate in the Summer Olympics.

And so yeah, it was, up until that point, I never believed it was gonna happen. They, they, they had been talking about it for about six months, but I never, in my wildest dreams, I believed that we would actually boycott and not participate. So what was going through your mind when you learned that and how did you feel?

Well, it, it was devastating in the fact that, so in swimming, we don't have a World Series or a Super Bowl. Right. If my favorite team is Chicago Cubs don't make it to the World Series, then I can always hope and pray that they do the next year. Right. Right. And I went to school at Auburn, like you said, and you know, I pull for them, but I always know there's a next year for us it's four years.

Right. There's this four year journey. So I knew. Another four year journey was, was really not in the cards for me at that time because, you know, there was no money in swimming. You, I was a junior in college. I wanted to swim my senior year, but I knew I was gonna retire after that, and I did. But it was devastating.

It, it, it really was. Uh, yeah, I, I, I, I, I can't sugarcoat it. I, you know, I had a wonderful coach who, um. Was a huge mentor of mine and, and he helped me get through a lot of it by saying, you know, let's take it day by day. There was my senior in college, the NCAA was a big thing, so of course I had that college swimming, um, atmosphere.

That was really helpful. But I knew after that I was done. So I did retire in 81 and, and, and stayed retired for about six months and then ended up coming back. Okay. And walk me through that decision. How did you decide to come back? What, what went into that, that choice? Well, it was, it was really [00:10:00] simply, my father asked me one day, he said, are, are you gonna be able to look at yourself in the mirror?

For the rest of your life and say, what if? Are you gonna be able to hear the national anthem? Uh, and then not think about that? Are you gonna be able to see the, the Olympic rings and not think about what if, what if I had done it? He goes, I don't care what you do, but you need to think about that. And it, it really.

Had me thinking. And then I called my coach and he said, you know, if you're serious about it, we can do this. I have a plan. I think we can accomplish that plan if you stick to it and if you trust me. And I said, you know, it's three years. I was 22 at the time, I think 1980 some or 80, maybe 21. And I just, I threw this whole amount of trust in Richard, my coach, Richard, quick.

And I believed in them. And the rest is, uh, a, as a cliche is, is used many times as history. And it wasn't easy, Morgan, I mean, a lot of peaks and valleys along the way, but I did trust in this plan and it, and it all worked out. You've said rowdy, that for you, it was not about the medals, but about being an Olympian.

Before we get to how you did in the 1984 Olympics, did being an Olympian live up to the hype? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, in 1980 I was an Olympian. I made the Olympic team. We actually had an Olympic trials, but it felt so empty in so many ways. Right? 'cause we didn't actually get to participate. I have to tell you that the, the real heroes of that whole Olympic boycott for the 343 athletes that made that Olympic team Morgan, and that did not make it in 1976 or 1984.

No. That was their only Olympics. So I [00:12:00] really feel for them. And when I swam in 84, it was for all those 80 Olympians that never got a chance to compete in an Olympic games. My dream came true. You know, I, it was a complete blessing. I had my day in the sun with 1984. I, I, I really believe that the boycott served a purpose for the journey I was about to take.

I didn't realize it at the time, but in hindsight, as I look back, it really was about the journey. And being an Olympian is the great thing is it's forever. You know, there's no such thing as a former Olympian or past Olympian. It's, it's forever and ever. And, uh, and that's the feeling I really wanted to have.

It really wasn't, don't get me wrong, I wanted to win. But at the end of the day, I was really proud to be able to call myself an Olympian because I knew it took a lot of work to get there. I swam 10 miles a day. Six days a week. Unreal. For eight years, we were sitting behind the block right before our last race, which was a relay and trying to figure out how many miles of swimming I had done, give or take, about 22, 20 3000 miles, which is the circumference of the globe at the equator.

So, oh my goodness. I tell my grandchildren, my wife and grandchildren are gonna write a book about that. Grandpa swims around the world or something like that, but I didn't do it. Literally, figuratively, right? They think, oh, grandpa swim around the world, you know, rowdy. As I was preparing for this interview, I went back and watched your individual 100 meter freestyle, and your reaction to winning is so genuine when you rewatch that race.

What do you see and feel now in retrospect? I still get nervous. I'm, every time I see the video, I'm sitting there, go rowdy, go. My colleagues get all sweaty and, but it turns out the same way every single time. Thank goodness. It, it's [00:14:00] hard to describe the feeling, Morgan, because first of all, it makes you feel so warm and proud to be an American.

You know, I mean, to be able to represent your country and. Again, I'm no hero. All I did was swim two laps in a pool. You know, I'm, I'm not a hero, but to be able to say that you represented your country and hear the national anthem, I mean, our heroes are, you know, the people that fight for us every day and our military and our first responders and our teachers.

I mean, there, there's plenty of other heroes out there, but, but for me it was, it was, uh, an incredible feeling of total rapture. I can tell you that. And the first person I saw was my coach when I got outta the water, and then we had a death grip on each other. So you know, it all came together. Is I, that's what first thing I said to him.

I go, you had a plan and I stuck to it. You executed. Yeah. Well, I, I loved, I was reading some of the comments on YouTube and people were like, this is what you should look like when you win a gold medal because your happiness is just so, it's, it's just beautiful to see. You won three gold medals and those Olympic games and you gave those medals away to three people.

Can you tell listeners who you gave those medals to and why? Well, I think at the time, you know, my mom and dad were in incredibly supportive. My mom has passed, my dad's still alive, like almost 90 years old. And you know, they were big supporters in each of their own way, you know? My mom was nervous and fearful of everything in her life, you know, so she was constantly nervous about my swimming.

My dad was a, a, a completely different animal, but, uh, but both supported me in a big way. And then my coach was my biggest mentor and my biggest supporter throughout all those years. So I, I couldn't have done it without them. I [00:16:00] mean, it. It really is just the metal part of things, right? The M-E-T-A-L is really not that big a deal.

Mm-hmm. I mean, the metal's cool. People love to see it and put it around their neck and everything. It's awesome to show it all, but really it's just, it's a material thing, you know? And I thought they would dig it a lot more than me. What am I gonna do with it? You know? So yeah, it was, uh uh, they definitely deserved it.

Okay. I wanna shift a little bit from that experience to, I wanna know how you met Judy. Yeah. And, and what, what in, at what point in your story did you meet Judy? I don't know if she's out there. She could probably tell you the story better than I can, but we actually met at a gas station. Seriously. Um, yeah, she was behind me.

I was pumping gas. This was in Las Vegas. I was coaching the swim team there. And what year was this? This would've been 1985 or six. Okay. Like 86 maybe. Okay. Right at the beginning of 86, I think. And uh, yeah, she was behind me and she would tell the story that, Hey, she, she saw me and she recognized me and she said, I'm gonna go introduce myself to him.

And I asked her for her phone number. She's like very forward. Oh, that's that, that's that handsome guy from the Olympics. Let me go. Yeah, lemme go myself. Those days are long gone. There she is. Come here and tell Morgan the story that we met at a gas station. Come here. Come here. It's all audio, honey. Not Judy.

I can even edit it out. Yeah, if you, if you don't wanna be on the Hi. Hey, how are you? I'm good. I was just making, I was just making him tell, uh, tell me the story of how you met and he told me that you met at a gas station and that you just went up to him and I was like, this is like. A lot of girls dream is to like meet somebody that they thought was handsome on the Olympics and that they, he asked for their neighbor.

I, [00:18:00] I, I, yeah. I just, he was pump gas behind me. I was with my sister. I said, I think that's Roddy Gaines. I'm gonna go hide him. And um, I did, I mean, I'm not a shy person, so I just watched up and said hello, and then he asked for my number. And of course, you know, that's in the time when we didn't have cell phones and, and, and we didn't even have voicemail at home.

So if you call and you miss the call, I mean, you know, sometimes took days. Yeah. But we eventually connected. You're too young to remember all that. Uh, I mean, I'm older than I look, which also is apparently true. Judy, you look so young. Doesn't she sweet. She looks great, man. Oh my gosh. It's 'cause I just colored my hair please.

I just got it done yesterday, Val. She's so amazing. She does my hairdresser her, so yeah. But thank you. Yeah, so it's nice to meet you in person. It's so you on Instagram? Yeah, I, uh, I have been so excited about this, so now I need to, I need to ask Roddy, and you can continue to listen if you want. Okay. Yeah.

I wanna know what, what attracted you other than the fact that Judy's beautiful? What do you feel like when you started going out with her, what attracted you to her? Well, I, I think a lot of it was her sense of humor. She had an incredible, and still does have the, this incredible sense of humor. And, and she's on, she's so fearless Morgan mean she's not afraid.

Well, she's afraid of like, spiders. Spiders and snakes and stuff like alligators and, and, uh, but she's fearless, you know? And, uh, she's not afraid to speak her mind. She's not afraid to talk to somebody about the church where somebody was in our front yard just a little while ago. They don't go to church.

I guess they're not active. But then she just started talking to 'em and it was like for an hour she's talking to this guy and her, his children. And so she, I, I love that part of her and. Um, and she's very kind and very generous as I got to know her. She [00:20:00] was, uh, incredible, generous with her time. We were both inactive at the time when we first met.

Well, you, well, excuse me, I take that back. You weren't even baptized. I, I wasn't a member of. And she was, she was like, we were inactive. I had never been to the church, so I was not active. I had never been. You, you, I didn't know what a Mormon was. You know I, did you know that? Charlene Wells. Oh, Charlene Wells.

Yeah. I did. I did go out with her a few times and after Olympics, after the, she was Miss America. Yeah. Well, they played racquetball. No, we, yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't anything romantic, but she was very sweet. Yeah. And I got to know a little bit about the church through her, but yeah, but he was not, uh, I was in, um, I got baptized and then I wasn't, I was in active like within a year.

I just didn't have a Okay, so you were system, you were a convert as well then? Yes, yes. I bti, I got baptized when I was 19. Okay. And how did you come into, into contact with the church initially? Judy, um, through a friend that I work with, she was preparing to serve a mission in, uh, Japan. And, um, she gave me a copy of the Book of Mormon.

She said, you should read this book. It's really interesting, and it talks about the savior. And I said, well, I grew up a Catholic and so I know who the savior is, and so if there's more information, sure, I'll read it. And so I started reading it and then she went away on her mission. And then there was a boy that I went to high school, he was inactive, and which I didn't even know what that meant.

We started dating and I was telling him, I was reading the Book of Mormon and he said, well if you wanna take the missionary lessons at my house, you can. So we got permission from his parents and then started taking the missionary discussions at his parents' home and it was amazing. And there was a point where I read second Levi.

31 20 and I like experienced this funny feeling inside. I was like, wow. I, [00:22:00] I, I felt something and, and it was, I didn't know what it was at the time. But I, but I knew that I loved Nephi's perspective. I, I'm like, I'm an optic, optimistic person, so is Nephi. Like, I love his attitude and I could relate to it, but there also was truth to it.

I felt there was truth in this. And then I told the missionaries about that and I said, I think I know that what this prophet is saying in this book is true. Wow. And then that just led to more discussions and eventually conversion and back to some. But then you said you didn't feel like you had the support system to keep it up.

I, I did not. Well, my family was. All Catholic. All Catholic. My mom was probably the most opposed, she wouldn't let me bring my book of Mormon in the house. She stand at the, I feel like I'm tattling on her, but I, but, but, well, she ended up being baptized in the church. Well, she did. She did. Oh, wow. But, but, but you know, she was a very strong Catholic and she stood at the door and she said, you need to leave that in the car.

In your car. And I said, okay. And then, gosh, how many years later? 1998. My mom gets baptized and that's another whole story. Oh my goodness. That's wild. So then tell me, so you, you two get married and then tell me how you ended up coming back to the church, Judy in Rowdy, how you ended up joining the church.

Well, we moved to Hawaii and lived in a little suburb of FA Honolulu called Hawaii Kai, and we met. Some friends that ended up becoming good friends, obviously. And who, who were members of this club? This kind of country club that I manage. Okay. And the man, the gentleman was also a swimmer like me in college.

He swam at Cal Berkeley and a member of the church and then his wife became friends with Judy and, yeah. But you hired her as a swim coach? Yeah, I hired her as a swim coach. I don't, we don't need to go into all the [00:24:00] details, but she, but we became friends and then they invited us to church and we, well ended up.

Jeanette showed up at my house one Sunday and said, let's go for a walk. And I barely knew her and, but I had seen her at Oahu Club and she was swim coach and she said, let's go for a walk. And we started walking and then we somehow we got on the subject of religion and. She started mentioning the church and I said, I got baptized in that church a long time ago.

I don't know if I'm even a member. I said, you know, 'cause I started going to like other churches. I started going to like a born again Christian Church. I looked into a little bit of Buddhism. I mean like, I was like still searching and I. She said, no, you, you, I didn't know you went to Buddhist. Yes. Yeah. I went to like with one with my friend Jackie.

Anyway, one lesson and that was kind of interesting. We do like these chant things and then they invited us to church and then really started nurturing us and. Leading us. Yeah. We just became good friends and I love going to church, but I, I wasn't going to become a member. I didn't wanna become a member.

So what, what changed? Uh, it's too long of a story because we only have a short amount of time. But e eventually after I chewed up a bunch of missionaries and spit 'em out, we moved to Alabama. This was like. Uh, almost 10 years after we moved to Alabama, well, we started going to church like 1990, something like that, and then moved to Alabama and I like eight or nine years later, something like that.

So one of our daughters was baptized and you know, you leave too many details out, honey. Yeah, Judy, that's what, that's what we need you here for. I The details are important. They are because, and this is your podcast. I'm sorry I'm jumping in on your podcast and never do this. Time is of the essence. I never do this, but I love this story because he had been investigating the church on and off.

And then my mother moved in with [00:26:00] us. She had some health issues, and then she was introduced to the church, and that's another whole story. But so I, I was like focusing on my mom, and mom and I were having this spiritual feast, and he were like, rowdy on your own. And so Roddy started doing some research on his own, and then the bishop invited him over and we were gonna have this talk, and Roddy had all this stuff ready that was like opposing, you know, yeah.

And then he ended up leaving there going, oh man, I don't know. This is pretty good. And so, so fast forward, our daughter, Madison's gonna get baptized and I'm trying to plan the program. And this missionary elder Douglas Shaw, he says, he calls me one day and he says, sister Gaines, I feel like Brother Gaines needs to give the talk on baptism at Madison's baptism.

And I said. No, I'm the Holy Ghost on the Holy Ghost. And I said, how do you think he can do that? He's not a member of the church. I don't think he can give a talk, can he? He said, of course he can. So I said, rowdy, you gotta give this talk. Would you, would you like to give this talk? He says, there's no way I am not doing it.

I'm not gonna make a fool of myself. I'm not gonna get up there and do this. So I thought, okay, what am I gonna do? So then I thought, well, what if Kirk helped you write the write the talk? Like our friend, our friend from Hawaiian, he said, no, not donut. So like another week goes by and I'm like, oh, DeShaw, I don't wanna do, and then I finally said, um.

Rowdy. This is, this is your daughter. This is like once in a lifetime. You, you, you should really do this. And he said, okay, I will. So here is the baptism day and he's up on the podium and he loved to buy our kids gifts and toys and presents. And he gets up there and he said, Madison, I can buy a lot of things for you.

He said, but there's one thing that I'll never be able to buy for you, and that is the gift of the Holy Ghost. And that comes to my Heavenly Father. And in that moment, like the spirit descended upon him and he [00:28:00] knew that what he was saying was true. And he stood there and he wept for like almost five minutes and he couldn't speak.

And we're all in the audience going, oh my gosh, this is this. And. And then he finished the talk and it was over, and I'm trying to like, serve food and rowdy's just disappears. And I'm like, where did Rowdy go and tell her what happened? Uh, the Bishop and President Webb, president Webb, Bishop, president, mission President corner me in the hallway, threatened me if I didn't get baptized.

Not, not, not quite that way, but. And then they wanted to do it right then. And I said, no, this is Madison's day. So we did it at another time. And so he came in and, and he, I'm putting food on, like, where have you been? I needed your help. And he said, oh, well I'm, I'm getting baptized. Like, wait, what? Wait.

Right. This is amazing. And. So a couple weeks later, he, he got baptized and by a boy in our ward, a young man that who befriended, rowdy. He's, um, has uh, special needs, special needs, but he had this incredible spirit about him that affected my husband. That. And so Elliot, Elliot Nichols baptized. Yeah. That's so neat.

So anyway, that's, that's, I wouldn't have been so detailed. No, no, no. I loved it. We loved the details. At what point I, somewhere I read, and I could be wrong about this, but did your health challenges play a role in any of this? Where did that fall into Somewhat. I came down with Guam Bere syndrome, which is a neurological disorder that strikes your nervous system.

It kind of shreds the sheath that protects your nerves. Mm-hmm. So I'm walking around one day and then within 24 hours I. Start to para [00:30:00] be paralyzed, you know? And so my wife threw me in the car and took me emergency room and they found out a lot about it. So that's sort of the, the detail behind that. But that was in Hawaii, so I was still kind of lost in my thoughts about the church and everything, but it, it did make me, it did make me appreciate.

At least at the time, uh, my health, my family. Yeah. And you know, what the Lord gives you is a gift of good health. I mean, because it is just, it, it put into perspective all these little. You know, these people that, that have to live with poor health every day. I just can't imagine. So I spent a couple months in the hospital and, and uh, kind of, kind of relearn how to walk all over again.

So you, you learn to appreciate the people around you For sure. That helped make that impact. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead and go back. It's nice talking to you. Hey Judy, thanks for, thanks for joining us. Welcome. It's nice to meet you. I can't wait to hear it. Yeah. Thank you so much. Rowdy. Another question related to your health struggles.

I, I watched or read something where you talked about how so many people in the swim community kind of rallied around you and, and helped you feel loved through that experience. I wondered. You have continued to be kind of this presence within swimming. Somebody called you perhaps the best ambassador for us swimming.

So what has the, the swimming community meant to you from the Olympics through your health challenges to, to now? Well, swimming certainly saved my life. Morgan, I, I was kind of going down a path. It wasn't complete darkness, um, but it was sunset. I was not, I was not going down a path that, [00:32:00] that, uh, that I was gonna feel very proud of, especially after I kept failing that sport after sport.

So, once I found swimming, it, it, it gave me hope. You know, I suffered through a couple things when I was a kid that, that were pretty, pretty tough for a kid to go through. So when I found swimming, it gave me a purpose and gave me a belief in myself and, and, uh, it, it, you know, started this journey as I mentioned earlier.

And, and I think, you know, my life, my whole life has really revolved around the swimming world. And, you know, the people in the sport have meant so much to me and, and I feel like you know, a little brother, a little sister, a big brother, a big sister, a parent, an aunt, an uncle, now a grandparent of so many swimmers out there that have certainly impacted my life.

Everybody from the 76 Olympic team. Who are still my heroes, I still get nervous around them and to, you know, Michael Phelps and Katie Ledecky, the two greatest names in the sport. They, they've all impacted my life one way or the other. So I have the sport a lot. So that is how swimming has blessed your life.

How would you say that the gospel has blessed your life? Well, I. As I went through my swimming career, as I told you, I was never perfect by any, any stretch of imagination. I think I lost more races than I won. I can tell you that. And the gospel's no different. You know, I, I make a lot of mistakes. You know, I, I feel unworthy many times during this journey through the, with the gospel.

I have doubts. Some days I don't wanna believe. Some days I feel helpless, but I think at the end of the day, I, I've learned that, [00:34:00] you know, the Lord loves me, wars and all, you know, and I'm really not that bad of a guy. I, you know, I, I feel like sometimes that. When I, when I think about this journey through life, my, my gravestones gonna read Rowdy Gaines Swimmer, you know, and I hope it's a lot and I'm okay with that, but I hope it's a lot more than that, that I was a, a good father and a good husband, and a good son, and a great good grandpa and all those kinds of things.

And a good friend. And I hope the Lord will remember me that I was us. You know, a good person and, uh, that he'll welcome me. I got a lot of work to do up there if I get up there, but I know he loves me. I feel that, you know, so that certainly gets me through the days and Judy keeps me on task on making sure that I, uh.

You know, I have to stay strong. You know, we, we have to read our scriptures. We have to pray every night before we go to bed. We pray every time before we eat. We, we go to church. We, we do the kinds of things. We partake of the sacrament, we do the kinds of things that I. Again, need to be consistent. I, I think, again, I never said I was perfect in swimming, but one thing I was, I was consistent, you know?

Uh, that's what I try to tell kids. Don't worry about being perfect, just worry about being consistent. And that's what I try to work on with the gospel is, is just trying to work on the consistency and I'm not very good at it, but that's what I strive to do. I love that. Um, I just was reading an article yesterday.

In the wake of President Nelson's passing, written by McKay Coppins who writes for The Atlantic, and he talked about how [00:36:00] he had the opportunity to interview President Nelson and, and in that interview he said to President Nelson that sometimes he struggled because he felt conflicted between his identity as a believer and his identity as a journalist.

And President Nelson said like, please don't. Separate the two. And he talked to him about how he had felt the same way that there was this separation between him being a doctor and, and then also a believer himself. And I think that that keeping our identity and proper perspective can be so hard. Um, but like you said, we want our, we want to be remembered by more than just one.

Um, I wanna read something rowdy that you wrote in a recent editorial. You joined Michael Phelps in expressing concerns about the state of US swimming recently, and that made some headlines. And in the editorial you said, I know what a home Olympics feels like. I lived it in 1984 standing atop the podium in Los Angeles.

That moment shaped my life in ways I will be eternally grateful for. Most athletes never get that opportunity. Even Michael didn't. This generation will, but only once. We can't afford to squander it. We owe it to them and to every kid on the edge of their neighborhood pool, watching with wide eyes and big dreams.

I love that, that statement and the way that you wrote it. Um, your wife has said that she believes the Olympics are a celebration of the human spirit. And I wondered, rowdy, before we get to our last question, uh, why would you say that that is something we need now more than ever? Well, the world is, is.

It's messed up right now. I mean, it's just, there's a lot of darkness around here, but I think it was the bishop that [00:38:00] was interviewed after that horrific Michigan tragedy recently that just said, you know, the overwhelming support and love and feelings of prayer that he and his members have felt is just.

Completely overwhelming. And so I think he also mentioned something. I, I use it, you know, in, in the proper context. But that good certainly outweighs the bad, you know, and that's what we have to keep believing every day, that the good, the so much better and so much stronger than the bad. And, uh, you know, when it, when it comes to children, they're, they're our future man.

It's not just my own flesh and blood, it's, it's. You know, they're gonna be our boss one day, you know, and we, we, I, I am getting a little corny, but we, we need to do everything we can to make sure that they, uh, and, and I, you know, I think about my grandchildren, you know, when I say this, that, that the world will be a better place because of them, but we have to do everything we can to do our part.

And, and be a positive influence and, and figure out the ways to keep making that good outweigh the bad. Well, I think anybody that has followed you a little bit can see that you have tried to do that, rowdy, and so thank you for, for all the good that you've done and for the way that you've represented the members of the church.

I think it's always nice to have somebody who has been a, a good representative of what we try to be as members of the church. My last question for you is, what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? Well, to me it. It means forgiveness, it means gratitude, and, and I think it means never giving up.

You know, I think in, in swimming, [00:40:00] there were days I wanted to give up, but I never did. You know, I never ever gave up and many times I wanted to. And I think the gospel being all in means the same thing. There's gonna be days where. You're gonna want to give up, but if there's a piece of advice I could give as, and I'm begging our, especially our youth, and anybody who has those doubts says, never give up.

I'm 66 years old, Morgan. I'm on, I'm on the back nine for sure. And I still, there are days that I want to give up, so it never goes away, but I never will give up. Because I know that our heavenly Father loves us very, very much, man. He definitely sees the good in us. Rowdy. Thank you so much. It's been such a treat to to talk with you, and I'll look forward to hearing your voice again.

Next time I'm watching some swimming. That's great. You'll hear me screaming and yelling. I usually tell people to turn the sound down, so thanks for listening.

We are so grateful to Rowdy Gaines for joining us on this week's podcast. We're also so grateful for the unexpected but delightful addition of Judy Gaines. We are also so grateful as always to Derek Campbell of Mix at six studios for his help with this episode, and we're grateful to you for listening.

We'll look forward to being with you again next week.