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[00:00:00] Speaking at BYU last year, elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf recounted the electric atmosphere on Palm Sunday as the savior made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem. He then recalled how those shouts of praise and jubilation eventually died down, and Jesus took up his cross, walked the wine press alone, and ultimately.

Rescued us all without fanfare. Elder Uchtdorf said on Palm Sunday, Jesus's triumphal entry into Jerusalem drew a crowd. It was a glorious and exciting moment, but even more important was what Jesus did after he entered Jerusalem. Even though much of it was done quietly, privately, even unnoticed by most people, end quote, elder Uchtdorf then invited students to ask themselves, will I invite Jesus Christ to have his triumphal entry into my life?

Maria Eckersley is an example to me of someone who has allowed the savior to have his [00:01:00] triumphal entry into her life. But whose joy in Christ has not been fleeting. Instead, she has invited the Savior to abide with her. And on this week's episode, she shares with us how a decision years ago to more fully celebrate the savior at Easter has been transformative.

Maria Eckersley is passionate about igniting faith in the rising generation. She blends her skills as a teacher, graphic designer and mother of six to deepen gospel study for families worldwide her own. Line course and podcast. Our mothers knew it offers weekly videos, object lessons, and printable tools to make scripture study more meaningful, memorable and simple.

Her relatable approach to the gospel helps her connect with audiences at Deseret Book. Magnify Events, BYU Women's Conference and Ksls Studio five. When not creating inspiring content, Maria enjoys hiking, wielding power tools, throwing epic parties, and sporadically [00:02:00] being healthy. The Her new book Teaching Easter is available in Deseret bookstores now.

this is all in an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson, and I. So honored to have Maria Eckersley on the line with me today. Maria, welcome. Thank you. It's great to be here. Well, Maria, you and I met years ago, and I feel like I've run into you a handful of times since then, and each and every time I feel like you are someone who exudes this joy and light, and you're gonna shake, you're shaking your head, but it's true.

I feel like there are certain people that it's just like, if I. Wasn't a member of the church, I'd wanna know why is that lady so happy? And so I wondered, have you always loved the gospel this way? I'd love to hear a little bit about your love [00:03:00] story with the gospel of Jesus Christ. Yeah, I think so. I mean, it would be a more dramatic story if I could tell you there were big ebbs and flows.

But no, it really, it comes from my parents. Like my parents are converts to the church and I mean, speak of somebody who's all in they are. 100% all in, and their families didn't come on board with them. So it was sort of together. The two of them figured this out and they sort of built that love of the gospel in me.

It was just, I think because they didn't have family to support them, they turned to. The church and the gospel as that structure. So it was just kind of part of my life growing up. And they both were always in the scriptures, especially my mom, she's always been really passionate about the scriptures. And so when I was, you know, in my teen angsty years, I.

Wanted to carve my own path and my parents did this brilliant thing where I think I was between my freshman and sophomore year at BYU and they, they took me and my brothers to Israel and I got to go with [00:04:00] Michael Wilcox to Israel. And I, you know, I'd heard the gospel all my life. I'd been taught the scriptures by my parents.

It wasn't until I heard him teach the scriptures that all of a sudden, like things just. Lit up in me. You know, he just sees things differently than others do, and listening to him for days in a row, I came home sort of on fire about the scriptures, and ever since then, it's been this kind of conduit for revelation for me.

You know, I don't always get answers by my bedside or in a prayer, but often I can find answers in scripture. So they're sort of my lifeline. That is so cool. Well, now I know that you and I have a mutual love for Michael Wilcox. Oh, right. I love him so much. Yes, he is. He's seriously, like one of my favorite people that I've ever interviewed.

But I I love that your parents took you to Israel and I'm, I'm now like, okay. I've always wanted to go to Israel, but I'm like, now I need to go when my girls are older. Yes. So that we could take them. Yes. I'm curious, how did your parents come in contact with the church? Uh, they were [00:05:00] attracted out, so like the missionaries knocked on their door and it was just this, they were in med school at the time.

Poor little newlyweds, you know, they had nothing and they'd never heard of the church. They knew nothing about the church. In fact, my parents offered the missionaries coffee and tea, I think every time they came over to teach for a while. You know, they just didn't know, you know? Um, so, and they just, it, it kind of caught fire for them and at different times they each had to have their own individual testimony.

It's, it's cool to hear their, their stories. They didn't line up perfectly about, you know, who received their revelation first and what they both found. Piece in it. And so they joined and you know, that's when they were newlyweds and then they had 10 kids. I'm number eight of 10, so it's, they just kind of, and we had a, we had some really remarkable people that influenced our family, like the missionaries who helped convert my parents.

Um, one of them, elder Burnett, he invited my parents to come and meet his parents and be a part of their family almost. I went [00:06:00] to their reunions, like it was this incredible legacy that the Burnett family. Gave our family so that we could sort of, you know, begin anyway. So it's, it's been pretty remarkable.

That is so neat. Well, now you are gonna have a chance to share, Maria, this love that you have for the gospel in a new job. Yes, and I already told Maria before we started reporting, I was like, I'm so jealous of your job. So can you tell listeners just a little bit about what you're doing and maybe give them a sneak preview of what they can.

Expect when it comes to the Salt Lake Temple Open house celebration. Oh, I don't even know that you can. How would I articulate what you can expect? I can tell you I've been in this job for not quite two months. I'm a project manager for the Salt Lake Temple celebration, so I'm on this kind of small celebration team and our whole goal is to like bring the world to this kind of experience.

You know, it's not just the salt Temple is everybody's temple, and so it's something that, to open those doors, [00:07:00] it's, it's, I dunno, I just think it's a time to. Delight in what is coming. So my whole team is devoted to that, and it's, it's been incredible to be a part of it. I, I've just never, I, I don't know how to articulate it.

I've never seen anything like it. I've been on Teams for work projects before. I've never been on a team that is so. One, they're connected to each other, but they are so tethered to God, right? Everybody wants to do this in his way. Everybody wants to do it. We know our, we know our talents, we know our capabilities, and we know they're not enough.

So we are earnestly praying. We are earnestly seeking. The best advice we can get. And that has just been incredible to watch that teamwork play out. And I just feel completely privileged to be a part of it. I wasn't looking for a job when this came across my desk. A a friend sent the job listing to me and she's like, Maria, you, you've gotta go for this.

And the more I read about that job description and. The characteristics they were looking for. It wasn't so much like, [00:08:00] here we need these skills as much as it was, we want someone who's like this and who loves this. And it just, you know, it was one of those things, you read it and it just clicks in your heart.

And so I was like, I've, I've gotta do this, I've gotta do it. And I just feel incredibly blessed that they said, okay, come on board. So I love it. That's so cool. So just for clarification, is the Temple Open House celebration? Yes. Is that different than the open house? Yes, it's bigger. Okay. This is a time of celebrating at a bigger scale.

So I mean, this is, the open house will of course be the centerpiece of what we're doing, but there will be things all around Temple Square that you can experience. This is an event that you can bring your family to, you can bring youth groups to, you can, there will be things to do. In fact, one of the things I've loved about working on this team is they're so dedicated to finding a way that everyone can feel invited.

At all ages, all abilities, all, all things have been considered. We want [00:09:00] people to feel welcome here 'cause this is his space. And so we're finding ways to make sure everybody is accommodated and welcome. It's gonna be incredible. Honestly. It will be incredible. I can tell not just 'cause because of the plans we're putting in place, but the way it feels, you know when you get the right thing at the right time and it just clicks and you're like, this is gonna be amazing.

That's how it feels. Yeah. Yeah, so between April, April, 2027 and October, 2027, those six months come anytime 'cause you, you won't wanna miss it. So neat. Well, I will tell you, my husband and I, we just moved back to Utah in May of this, this last year. And when we were talking about, you know, where did we wanna be, one of the things was, it would be so cool to be in Utah during the Temple Open house.

Yes. And that sounds like so cheesy. No, I totally get, that was like actually part of our calculus. Like, are we that big of nerds? But yes, we, we are. Um, so we're really looking forward to it. We are gonna [00:10:00] talk today, Maria, about something that will come sooner than the temple open House, and that is Easter because it comes every year, and I am so excited to learn from you in preparation for this.

I not only went through. Your new book teaching Easter, which you've done a beautiful job with, but also I read Reread Elder Gary Stevenson's talk, where he invited us to celebrate Easter more. And then this Easter first presidency message, which is in the March, Leah Hona, and then a talk by President de Uchtdorf that you sent me that is wonderful called Joyfully Received the Unexpected Messiah, which he gave at BYU last year.

And so we will kind of pull from all of those different things today, but in that April, 2023 general conference talk, elder Gary Stevenson said this, how do we model the teaching and celebration of the resurrection of Jesus [00:11:00] Christ? The Easter story with the same balance, fullness, and rich religious tradition of the birth of Jesus Christ.

The Christmas story, this is something Maria that you said after you heard this talk, you decided you wanted to put into practice in your family. So I wondered if we could start by having you share a little bit about how this has changed your Easter experience. I, I just, I really love the way he talks about.

The, the benefits here are, you know, the balance, the fullness, the rich tradition. I don't think he's trying to get us to adopt the busyness of Christmas. I, I don't think, I think there's a lot of that commercial side that we can set down when it comes to Easter. Right. So, for me, I, I guess I see Christmas as a season of like giving and receiving in the Savior's way.

And when it comes to Easter, I see Easter focused on, it's all about me receiving, you know, like it's, it literally is just his divine gift that is given to all of us. And it is a celebration for. Like, it's a time for us to celebrate that gift, to appreciate it, maybe to emulate [00:12:00] it, but it's, it's really all about receiving and I just think there's some.

Tenderness in that. So as I was trying to approach it with my family, I don't know, things kinda shifted for me about eight years or so ago. I, I had always done all the traditional things. We'd done a lot of bunnies and cute tradition, you know, like Easter baskets and lots of creative fun things to help my kids love that experience of Easter.

But I was lacking any richness or depth or, you know, I, I just felt like something was missing and I was frankly tired. So I felt like maybe I needed to do it differently. And I've, when the, when the church put out that video of hallelujah, you know, the hashtag hashtag hallelujah campaign, I just mm-hmm.

Something about the way they did that. I just felt like that was missing in my kids' life. And so I started to kind of strip away some of the. The fluff and try to add in more teaching. And it's really made a phenomenal difference in my life and in my kids' lives. I just think it's, that's become our tradition.

It's a tradition of [00:13:00] teaching rather than a tradition of everything else. Uh, so that's, I don't know. It's helped me shift my focus a little bit and maybe make Easter more of a season rather than. An event that happens. Mm-hmm. You know, which I think was Elder Stevenson's goal. He was like, just celebrate this is the greatest miracle of all time.

Take time to celebrate it. Yeah. Well, I, I think that I had an interesting experience this Christmas. So I, I'm the oldest of six kids. None of my siblings are active in the church. Mm-hmm. And so we were going to my parents for Christmas and there's some interesting like dynamics where I think my parents are still trying to adapt to what do we do at Christmas?

Yeah. If we don't do the things we always did and what are people comfortable with and what are they not? But me, I'm like, I'm a young mom. And I want my girls to know that there's a religious significance to Christmas, you know? And [00:14:00] so I am not the creative type. I will go ahead and tell Maria I am, I'm trying really hard right now because my two and a half year old loves crafts and she loves like getting her hands dirty and stuff, but it's not, it's not my typical jam.

And so I was like. I had seen a lot of people post about doing like shepherd's dinners, you know? Right. And I, it's not really like my normal mo, but maybe if we did that, it could be a way to like invite. Christ into Christmas in kind of a little bit more of a subtle way. Yeah. And I asked my brother who sings and plays the guitar if he would play a couple of hymns about shepherds on the guitar, and he said yes.

And it ended up being like this really sweet experience. Yeah. And so I think sometimes these things that can feel like you can think. If you're me and cynical and lazy, you can think, oh, I don't know if this is worth the effort, or [00:15:00] maybe it will be weird, but I think there are ways to. Share just a little bit of what we believe, whether it be with our kids or neighbors or friends or family in a way that doesn't feel like we're like jamming it down their throat, you know?

A hundred percent. Um, and so as I was prepping for this conversation, and I read in that talk by Elder Stevenson, he quotes NT Wright, who I love. Mm-hmm. Who said, um, we should be taking steps to celebrate Easter in creative new ways in art, literature, children's games, poetry, music, dance, festivals, bells, special concerts.

This is our greatest festival. Take Christmas away. And in biblical terms, you lose two chapters at the front of Matthew and Luke. Nothing else take Easter away and you don't have a New Testament. You don't have a Christianity. And I I was curious for you, Maria. I, I know that you tried really hard to be intentional about [00:16:00] putting in these activities, but also filling this book with doctrine and principles and things that you had learned.

And so talk to me about kind of how you've seen that there are different ways to do this, to celebrate Easter and, and how you think we benefit from. Looking for different ways to celebrate. Uh, I think all the things we've done to celebrate Easter so far are good, right? Anything that leads your eye to Christ is good.

So I'm not trying to pretend that I have a solution that is better than others. It's more just, it gives you more options. Uh, for me, the thing that I've found the most. Personally enriching. And I say that meaning like this may not resonate always with my kids, but for me, what I, when I come out of Easter and I feel like I have taught the gospel in a way that matters, then I feel full.

Like there's something about that to me that really, I. It's, it fills me up as opposed to all the busyness and the activities. There's something about being able to connect [00:17:00] with the spirit and then say, okay, I wanna help my kids. I want them to understand there's something about that process that just sort of fills me up.

So that's been our shift. I just focus on teaching and because my kids change. You know, their ages change, their interests change. You can't do the same thing every year. You really can't. So I almost hesitate to call them traditions. That's why I say you should have a tradition of just teaching. Yeah. Your tradition at Easter should be, you teach the gospel of Jesus Christ, you teach them about the atonement in some way.

And, uh, for me, I just think that's been so much more satisfying because. I don't have this huge standard. I can look at Instagram and I can see all the amazing things other people are doing and I can say, that's fantastic. I'm gonna teach something today. Like that's all I have to accomplish. And it, for me, it just sort of, I dunno.

It takes the pressure off of me and instead just says, just enjoy this, find a way to enjoy it. So, because I have varying kids, like one of my kids is on the autism spectrum and he can't do a devotional. Like if I said we're gonna do a. A, a dinner on the floor and [00:18:00] you're gonna have to listen to me tell this scripture story.

He would check out so fast. No thank you. Right. So because that doesn't work for Jack, I needed. Other options. Now, Jack really responds to things that are action oriented. So for me, when I do something like an object lesson and I'm hovering ping pong balls above a blow dryer, Jack is immediately engaged and from, that's what worked for my family, is to try and find those things that were surprising and eye catching, and then they would lean in and because they see my face and I'm so excited to tell them something they listen, that might not work for everybody, but.

It works for me. So I, in the book, I try to do a blend of, here's the doctrine, here's really what will hold you long term, and then here's something you could do to just help your kids be like, what is that? Why are you telling, why are you showing me that? What is that? And that curiosity, I think. Hooks them.

And that's when the spirit can swoop in and do its mighty work. You know that that's not gonna come from me. It's gonna come from them feeling something. So does that answer your question? Yeah. Well, and I also think, I also think that there's power in a [00:19:00] parent trying. Yeah. That's such a good way to see it.

It's like the Lord loves effort, you know? And I, I think that I felt that so much as a mom where it's just like. I am out here and I am trying, and some nights our scripture study is like an absolute disaster. My husband videoed it the other night because he was like, this is unreal. But then like other nights, like tonight, we actually had a pretty good scripture study.

Hey, that's good. I think that it's like, you know. There is, there is a lot of power in simply showing up. Yep. And, and trying to do something. And the Lord inspires you and helps you have more ideas. And as your children grow, I'm sure you feel that more and more. Yep. Well, don't you just trust that he like multiplies?

I mean, basically I think one of your scripture studies is like the loaves and the fishes. Right. It means I'm just contributing and this is the Measliest meal that you've ever seen. And the Lord says, oh, I can work with that. I can, yeah. And that's what I found is all those scripture studies that I thought were.

Just a scrap of nothing. He [00:20:00] can somehow multiply and when they're 16 or 18 or 24, they come back and they're like, oh, I get it now. You know, it multiplies, but it takes a long time. I love that. I love that. I'll hang on to that. Yeah. Maria, you are someone that I feel like. You just excel at this idea of, of celebrating.

And so I'm curious, is that something like, do you feel like you just naturally are like a celebrator or is that something that you've had to work to develop? And what would you say to somebody like myself who would like to become better at it? Um, that's an easy one. Morgan, I would tell you to study the savior.

I know that seems like an odd answer to that question, but I, I can almost see this parallel track that as I came to understand the savior more, my desire to gather people increased, and I, I started to wonder why there was that parallel track, and I realized it's the exact same thing that happens all over scripture.

You know, you see somebody like Enis who's wrestling for his own answers, [00:21:00] and as soon as he has a connection with the Lord and he really understands even just a little bit, his immediate next step is. Okay, now I wanna pray for the people around me. How do I help the people around me? And you see that over and over in scripture, and I really think that's what happened for me.

It's the more I understood the Savior's character. You see him just like reaching into the margins and pulling people in, and he worries about the people who. Don't have what they need, and he finds a creative way to bring them into the middle. And I, I think that's mine. It's not so much that I love hosting parties.

They're stressful and tiring and sometimes straining on my budget, but I, but they, they give me a chance to be that right, to be somebody who says, oh, I saw you and I'm gonna make sure you're here. I feel like that's what we're seeing in the Temple celebration too. Like we see all the margins and we're like, there will be no.

Nobody want, we don't want anyone left to the outside. We want everybody to be brought in. But that's 'cause everything about the celebration is really about the savior. So they, they all kind of flow together for me. [00:22:00] So if you're struggling study him and you'll feel inspiration on how to be more like him.

And that's a big part of who he is. So I wanna kind of piggyback off of that. Mm-hmm. I noticed in this first presidency message for Easter, at the end, it quotes a scripture that I have always loved, but it's the scripture in the New Testament that says, see this Jesus. And the first presidency says like, we invite you this Easter season to see this Jesus.

And I wondered. Maria, what do you think it is about your relationship with Jesus and and your experience in seeking him that has blessed your life to the point that you do fill that desire to bring people in? So basically, how has seeking Jesus blessed you? Oh boy, that would be a tough one to [00:23:00] summarize.

Can I, can I pull you into the scriptures? Let me start there. So recently I'm studying in the Old Testament, right? Like all of us are, and I'm studying Isaac, and he's, he's got this really interesting role. He's, he's a well maker, a well digger, so he'll go into different lands and he'll dig a well, and then sometimes his enemies are the people around him.

Take over that. Well, and he just goes and he digs another well, and it's what he does in every place he goes, is he creates this connection to a life-giving source. And it's just this remarkable thing to see. And the more I think about things like. Joy or like this lasting kind of abiding confidence. I feel like it's like digging a, well.

I don't know if you remember like when you remember when you were like in third or fourth grade and you realize that there's this aquifer under the surface of the soil and like everywhere there's water down there, but if you just dug enough you could find it. Like I just remember being so excited by that concept that there's water everywhere.

If I could just dig deep enough and I just think that's kind of what happens over the course of time. That you develop a relationship with the Lord and you realize [00:24:00] there's water everywhere. Like there's living water in every part of your life that he sends you to. Even if it looks like this barren wasteland, what he says is, you come to me, you seek my guidance, and you put the work in.

You're gonna have to dig and you sometimes you have to dig for a while, but I promise you there's water. And I just think that that visual for me helps. 'cause we've been in some pretty barren. Wastelands in our life where I'm like, why did you put me here? What? Why on earth would you put me such a parched place?

And you just sort of over again, I think it happens over time. It's not something I could have gotten in my twenties or my thirties. It's something that took time for me to be like, oh no, there always is. Water mortality always works. Uh, that's what Elder Hales taught us. Just sometimes takes a lot of prayer and a lot of effort.

So for me, that helps me sort of. I feel settled about things. I think you're so good with scripture stories. Um, I listened in preparation for this to, uh, our [00:25:00] mothers knew it. Oh, Maria, just podcast. And you do such a good job. Oh, okay. And I wanted to make sure that I complimented you on that. But in your book teaching Easter, you quote Elder Paul b Piper.

Yeah. Who said God invites us to grow by trusting his spiritual tutoring through soul stretching experiences. And you kind of just alluded to those, those barren times. Um, elder Piper continues, therefore we can be sure that whatever trust we may have demonstrated in God in the past, another trust stretching experience lies yet ahead.

God is focused. On our growth and progress. Your family, Maria, went through a soul stretching experience as your husband battled cancer, and I wondered how did that change you and specifically the principles that we celebrate at Easter. 'cause I feel like at their root. Like the principles of Easter and, and what we believe about Christ is the only [00:26:00] thing that makes something like watching a loved one go through what you watched your husband go through, even remotely bearable.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's been, that's been a long haul, right? So it's been. Nine years since his first pancreatic cancer diagnosis and that first year Morgan, oh, that first diagnosis, I mean, he was 40. We had six kids that were under 16. It was, it was a lot. Anyway, the, the, the odds for him surviving even to the five year mark were in those single digits.

So we were just sort of like. Where do you even go? What do you do? All our whole life trajectory that I had mapped out so carefully, just all of a sudden took this abrupt turn. And I can tell you because of that experience, when I saw the, the Hallelujah video, I got it in a different way. Jason was, nine years ago, was our first cancer diagnosis.

Hallelujah. Came out. Like the Easter after maybe two Easters after, right after it. And that's when I started to really feel that [00:27:00] we need something deeper, you know, because we were dealing with real problems. And the Easter Bunny's concept goes, doesn't do anything for anyone. And sorry, not to offend anyone, but like it just.

At that point I couldn't, I couldn't waste any more time. I was like, we need something that really will last. What will last? And so that's when I started stripping away all the extra Easter and just focused on the atonement of Christ. But I can tell you that that experience and his, his cancer recurred three times.

So it's not like we're done with this fight, but I just, nothing has made me more grateful for the resurrection of Jesus Christ than that. 'cause no matter how dark things get, no matter how scary, I mean there's been nights when I've just. Cried and cried. You know, I, because what do you do, right? And how do you handle all that weight at once?

Um, but I knew fundamentally. That if the resurrection was real, then every other promise was real. I can still remember, you know, people would say things like, you know, families are forever, and all, all of those [00:28:00] things that would, they're trying to comfort you. And I just, I remember thinking like, if what we celebrate at Easter.

If I can really wrap my head around that promise, then every other promise must be true. You know, the promises that I'll have, the help I need, the promises that a prophet will lead and guide me if I'm struggling. The promise that I can go to the temple and find strength and power beyond my own. All those promises are true if the resurrection is true.

So for me to celebrate Easter was like this pinnacle. Do I believe this? And if I believe it, then everything else is smaller, right? Morgan, like every other miracle is smaller than that one. And so I could, it's not like I felt at peace with our fate so much as I felt like I could, I could find a way through it.

I could, I could find those wells, you know, I could find water when I needed it. So it helps immensely, uh, to understand the resurrection. It's part of the reason I love Easter as much as I do. 'cause it's the promise I rest on when things are really scary. Oh, that's really powerful. [00:29:00] How is your husband doing now?

Great. He's great. Good. In fact, we just hit three years without any tumor, so it, it's, it's been a remarkable, nobody lives through this disease, so it's been miraculous. There really isn't a better word for it. Wow. In A BYU devotional address. Last year, elder Dedo and you, you were the one that recommended that I revisit this and I'm so grateful that you did.

Um, elder Dedo said, we tend to think of joy as the absence of sorrow, but what if joy is not the absence of sorrow? What if joy and sorrow can coexist? Yeah. What if they have to coexist? It's interesting that Lehigh's declaration about joy comes in this. Same breath. As his observation about the fall of Adam and Eve.

He seems to be saying that their transgression in the Garden of Eden, which brought pain and death and sickness and sorrow into the world, also made wait for joy. In other words, if you wait for sorrow to end before you [00:30:00] experience joy, you might miss joy completely. To experience a measure of sorrow may enable your heart and your mind to receive pure, heavenly joy.

Elder Uchtdorf also, uh, cites the scene on the cross as well as Palm Sunday as examples of kind of this duality. But I'm curious, how do you think we see this in the story of Easter? I just thought it was fascinating that he used these Easter examples in the talk about joy. I did too. I just, there's a quote from Elder Maxwell that I have loved from the very beginning of Jason's diagnosis.

I happen to hear it in a, in a Sunday school lesson. Honestly during those first few months, and it's held me ever since, it's from Elder Maxwell, and he said, the cavity that suffering carves into our heart will one day be the receptacle of joy. And the same idea that President Uchtdorf is saying, it's this idea of like, you're gonna have to scoop out.

And that scooping out is so painful at times. But what he's really trying to give you is this, this [00:31:00] big container for the joy to flow in. And I love the Easter examples because I think. For example, if you think about Palm Sunday, the idea of Palm Sunday, all these people that are just coming to celebrate and Elder Rdo, at the time he was elder rdo, he, he used to talking about how people, the apostles must have been thrilled, right?

That this day where all the city has moved and people are excited and they're like, yes. People are finally getting it and they think that's joy in the moment, but really that's fleeting, right? Within a few days, people have rejected him. Within several days, people are calling for his crucifixion. It, it's so fleeting.

But what you really see, where you really see joy is that Easter morning for me. Because you see someone like Mary who has been through all this trauma and her whole heart has carved out, I mean, can I just picture what her heart must have been through not just her, but all of those certain women who stood at the cross and all of the men who loved the savior, and they've all got this big cavity that is so empty, and [00:32:00] then when she sees him and when.

She knows that the resurrection is real. It's just overflowing joy. But she wouldn't have been able to hold it, had things not been carved out. You know, they, he had to carve out all that extra tradition from her ancestors, all the misunderstandings, all the teaching she didn't quite get when he was there.

Like I all that had to get carved out so that she had space for the joy. And then once you've got it, I mean to me it's like that. Well, once you've got that, it stays, you can tap into that. That's why I love Eve's words when she talks about this is the joy of our redemption and eternal life. You know, in the per price.

I think it's in Moses, you get that beautiful statement from Eve where she says, this is why it was worth it. Because she's, when she says, she's kind of diving deep into the joy of our redemption and eternal life, which God gave us unto all the obedient, I picture Eve like. Putting that bucket down into that well of truth, you know, it's like this is living water.

This is the stuff that lasts. All the other things on the surface, they're great, they're happy, they're [00:33:00] good. They're even a little bit joyful at times, but they're not a fullness of joy, that richness that the savior wants for us. So I love that. The Palm Sunday comparison, it just. It shows that yes, there's happiness in this world and even a little bit of joy and light, but it can't last unless it's tied directly to something that is eternal.

You know, something bigger than Palm Sunday. Right? Well, and I think Palm Sunday it was, it was like, I was gonna say, I think it's kind of the difference between happiness and joy before you even mention that. But I think that the interesting thing is. We have to, we have to know who Christ is, like who is the man riding in on the donkey.

Right? And it can't just be. Oh, this is the, oh, let's let wave our palm. Right. You know? Um, we have to have conviction and understanding, and that's what I think a lot of this invitation to [00:34:00] better understand Easter is, is to let it sink deep. Yep. I love in the book that you have written teaching Easter, you.

Kind of take us through from what's in the, in the Bible and the New Testament all the way through to the restoration. Mm-hmm. With the last chapter being about the priesthood. But I, I thought that that is. Really powerful and really significant because we do believe things that other people that also celebrate Easter and worship Jesus Christ, maybe don't believe.

Right. And we have a whole book of scripture, two books of scripture, right? Three books of, you know, and, and, and thinking about Elder Stevenson's talk again, he talks about the Book of Mormon and how much it deepens our understanding of the savior. And I always really admire my Christian friends because I'm like you, you understand so well [00:35:00] What happens in the Bible?

Like they know the Bible. I feel like much better than I do. And. Then we have the gift of so much added knowledge with the restoration. And so talk to me a little bit, Maria, about why it was important to you to include Restoration Scripture and you have restoration quotes throughout the whole book. Yeah.

So talk to me a little bit about that. I just feel like I love what the Bible offers when it comes to Easter, and I feel like we've, we've done a pretty good job in the last few years of saying like, let's understand Holy Week, let's improve it. Yes, we're getting better. We're getting better. That's fantastic.

But I just feel like we're almost stuck. In that little Holy Week bubble, and I wanted something, maybe because I've studied scripture so intensely for the last, I don't know how many years now, I just feel like there's so much more that that adds to it. You know? It, it's almost like a lens that you can see the Bible through so that the Bible story is more vibrant.

You know that Easter story that is captured in the Bible is more vibrant. When I look through the lens of the Book of Mormon and I can understand how long he's been preparing for this and how many [00:36:00] prophets prophesied about it, and that they knew Mary's name and all those. All those things, they make the, the story in the Bible more vibrant to me.

So when I went to write the book, I really wanted to capture that and not just in the like, oh, I'll do a couple chapters from the Book of Mormon, but I tried to weave in the Book of Mormon everywhere. Like I, I don't know when you read it, for example, one of the chapters it's about Mary and Martha and the raising of Lazarus.

And I think it's fascinating that in. In the wording, like when the savior comes to Martha and he basically says like, do you still believe? Remember this is before Lazarus has been raised and Martha's been distraught. And he says to her like, I am the resurrection of the life. Do you still believe? And she says, yes.

The phrasing is almost identical to what we see with am and, and. King Lim's wife, remember, he's been down for a few days and everyone thinks he's dead. And she's the one that says, like, to me, he does not stink. Remember that story? And she's, she comes to Amon and she's like, I, I can't explain it, but I just don't think he's dead.

And Amon says, do you believe, and it's the exact same [00:37:00] phrasing, so I wanted to use. Those stories together, because I think what they do is they give me a richer, fuller view of that Easter Miracle. When you see it in the Book of Mormon and you see it in the New Testament, you understand Christ better, which is exactly what the Book of Mormon is supposed to do, right?

It's the second witness of Jesus Christ. So, you know, almost every chapter I try to weave scriptures from the Bible in with either the Pro the Great Price or the Book of Mormon, or the Doctrine Covenants. 'cause I, I love 'em all. Morgan. I love 'em all. I do too. Well, Maria, you have done such a beautiful job with this book, so I wanna applaud you for that, and I just appreciate this conversation so much.

I feel like I have. Come away with a desire to be better. And, and I just, I think sometimes people's love for the gospel is contagious and you have that about you. So thank you so much for that. My last question [00:38:00] for you is, what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? Uh, for me that phrase just means I'm here from today, always, you know, like I.

I see myself, I, like I said at the beginning, I know my talents, I know my limits. I know my insecurities, I, I know my weaknesses, and then I see who I am with the savior. And I don't mean just like in an ethereal kind of way. I mean, when I'm connected to the savior, when I'm connected to his church. When I have those deep connections, my talents rise.

You know, my abilities rise, my insecurities diminish. I've seen it happen so many times, especially when Jason was super sick. I felt like there simply wasn't a physical way I could be all of that I needed to be, to be his caretaker, to help the kids to run my business, all the things. At the same time, I couldn't do all those things, and I found that when I turned to him.

I [00:39:00] could not, not that it was all me, but like he would help me find the right resources. He would help me find the help that I needed. And so that's why I'm all in, like I've tried on my own and I know exactly how capable I am, and I know exactly how capable I am when, when I've got him on my side, and I would never trade one for the other.

So I'm all in. So well said. Maria. Thank you so. So much. You are an absolute delight. Oh, it's been a pleasure. Thanks Morgan. We are so grateful to Maria Eckersley for joining us on this week's episode, you can find Maria's new book, teaching Easter and Deseret bookstores. Now, thanks to Derek Campbell of Mix at six studios for his help with this episode, and thank you so much for listening.

We'll look forward to being with you again next week.