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When I was recently called to serve as primary president in my ward, I thought, how neat would it be if I was able to interview a member of the primary general presidency to get advice about how I can effectively serve in primary in auxiliary, where I have admittedly not spent a lot of time since I was a child.

I put in a long shot request and was so excited when I was told that I would have the opportunity to interview President Susan H. Porter. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. President Susan H. Porter is originally from Oklahoma, but was raised in New York State in 1977. She married her husband Bruce D.

Porter, who later served as a general authority 70 Elder Porter passed away in 2016. They are the parents of four children. After a year of serving as first counselor in the primary general presidency, president Porter was sustained as primary general president for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in April, 2022.

This is All In an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to beat? All in the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Morgan Pearson, and I am so honored to be here with President Susan H. Porter, president Porter. Welcome. Thank you so much, Morgan. I've loved listening to this podcast. Oh, you're so sweet.

Well, I told you as you walked in that I have wanted to interview you since you got called, and so this is a dream come true for me. I wanted to start, and actually I should say, I asked Irene when I reached out to her. I said, I just got called as a primary president in my ward and I haven't spent a lot of time in primary.

So I feel like I have so much to learn and I'm excited to have the chance to learn from you. But you spoke in general conference about how you grew up in a part member family, and. I think that has to be such an interesting experience that is very formative in terms of your gospel development. So I wondered how did that shape who you are and how do you feel that it's allowed you to relate to families with varying circumstances all around the world?

Yeah. Thank you for that question. Yes. My mother is the youngest of 10 children, grew up in Salt Lake City, convert. Great grandparents from England, so she grew up in that environment. My father is German Jewish and was actually a refugee from Germany just before World War ii, so they had very different life experiences growing up, but when they married, they agreed that the children could be raised in the church, but.

It was my mother that took us to church. My father came occasionally if we spoke or participated, but I, as a child growing up and learning about eternal marriage and and ceiling, of course it was my desire that my dad would join the church, but it just developed in me a desire. I want to grow up and I would like to marry.

In the temple and have those blessings. So it wasn't a negative for me to learn about eternal families in the church. The other thing my mother did intentionally was to make close friends. I grew up in a very small branch in western rural New York, and so she was very intentional about making friends with families in the branch who had.

Children are ages and we would do all kinds of things together. They'd come to our house, we'd go camping. And so I got to observe, you know, what does a couple look like? You know, who have been sealed in the temple? I'm not talking about perfect couples, but couples who support each other in gospel learning and teaching their children, hearing a father give a family prayer, which never happened in my family.

So that was a real blessing to me. So as I think children growing up, they know. That they can do the things to prepare for that blessing in their lives. They can grow up with that strength and desire. What's interesting to think about, that's the thing that you can control you. You can't control other people's agency or when they decide to make certain choices along the covenant path, but you can make your own choices.

I love that. Speaking at BYU, you said this by a raise of hands. How many of you have a memory of a primary teacher who loved you or a primary song that instilled in you your beginning testimony of the savior? That is the power of primary? I love that quote. And I wondered, did you have a primary teacher that.

Loved you. Who stands out in your mind and made an a special impact and what would you say makes a special primary teacher? Yes. It's interesting. When I was really little, we had actually primary during the week and, but we had Sunday school on Sunday and that's who I. Remember when I was a young girl, there were just two of us in the class, and the teacher was brother black.

He was not a skilled teacher. The class was held in the basement of a little rented church, you know, for our branch, and there was just curtains, you know, dividing the classroom. So you're hearing all this noise, but I can picture to this day sitting there with him. Because we knew two things. We knew he loved the Lord and the gospel was everything to him, and we knew he loved us.

And so the fact that he read some of the lesson or, or whatever it, it just didn't matter. We felt something in that room. So I would say this should give us all encouragement. We can all learn how to be better gospel teachers, but the main thing is that we communicate our love for the Lord. To the children and then our love for them.

It's beautiful. I think I, in thinking about primary, sometimes I'm trying to like reinvent the will of, okay, this is what I know about how little kids learn, but the way that you just said it, it's like, that's all it is. So supporter. What would be your plea? I, I think one thing, as I've thought about primary.

Especially in my ward is I just, if there was some way for me to be like, this really matters. It really matters to the Lord. It really matters in the lives of these children. They will remember their experience in primary for the rest of their lives. And so I wondered what would be your plea to help both church leaders, Bishop Ricks, um, and then primary teachers themselves feel how important.

That calling is, I reflect on how much effort we make in our families and in the gospel of Jesus Christ to send missionaries all over this world to bring people to Christ. And then I like to ask the question, where are the purest souls? Every single week, they are in primary through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

The adversary has no access to the hearts of little children, and so there they are, and we. Primary teachers, primary leaders, the testimonies we bear, those children can feel it. They don't have the barriers that, you know, often we develop as we get older. And so what an opportunity to participate with parents in being that child's first and earliest communicator of love.

And, uh, testimony of the savior. And in primary we can do it in a language they understand. So we hope in SA meeting they're feeling the spirit. The unique thing in primary is we can talk to them at their level. It can be very close with our little class of sunbeams or five-year-olds. It's an incredible gift and opportunity to be able to teach those little ones.

I wanna talk a little bit more about how do we help children? Feel the spirit and recognize that that's what they're feeling. But really quickly, I, my little girls have incredible nursery leaders. And the kind of head nursery leader, she's from New Zealand, and I will sit in there and she looks in their little faces and she says, Emma, heavenly father loves you so much.

And I listen to her and I'm like, I believe it. You know, I like, I know heavenly father loves Emma, but I'm believing that he loves me too. And I just think that is such a gift to be able to communicate that to little ones. But what would you say in terms of how can we. Both feel the spirit and then know, help them know that that's what they're feeling.

Yes. One thing we have to understand is for each of us, we feel the spirit in different ways. Let's say we're singing a beautiful primary song in primary, let's say we're singing Gethsemane, and we feel a little teary. If we say to the children, I feel the spirit, I feel teary. How about you? Then a child who's not feeling teary will sing.

Well, I'm not feeling the spirit, right? So the idea would be say that we can tell as we're singing that special song. That there's a special feeling we can say, I, I'm feeling heavenly father spirit right now. What are, what are you feeling? And it's interesting what children will say, how they'll describe it.

They may say, I feel happy, or I feel thoughtful, or it's very, and then you can say that is the spirit. You help them recognize that there are so many different. Ways that the spirit speaks to us. So you help them and identify what are you feeling right now? That's, that makes complete sense, sister Port, after serving children throughout your life, in your home, and now as general primary president, what have you learned about the long-term impacts of primary long after?

We sit in those little chairs that maybe parents, teachers, leaders don't see in the moment when we go out and do primary leadership instruction. Two wards and stakes. Sometimes we do it on Zoom, we do it internationally. We always invite the priesthood leader to participate with us in the leadership instruction.

So sometimes it's, we would do our instruction and they add a message at the end, but we invite them to do it with us. And one thing we invite them to do is to share whatever they wanna share about the importance of primary. Every single time they share an experience from primary, and these are often 50, 60 plus year old brethren.

Mm-hmm. Uh, I'll never forget one time I was out, uh. Doing, you know, just such a leadership instruction. And the next day I was at a special state conference and the stake president came and grabbed me and he said, sister Porter, you have to meet my primary music leader. Okay. So he was probably six three, easily.

Could have been, you know, star. Quarterback type of guy, and we find this sister, maybe four 11, maybe weighs 90 pounds, and he just put her arm around her in such a tender way and said, this is sister so-and-so. She's the one that taught me as a boy. And then he went on to explain that even though his family came to church, they didn't really.

Do much gospel learning in the home. So it was really through her and through her teaching him the songs that he gained. His earliest testimony, and this happens all the time. I would say every parent in the church, let's say you're a very engaged parent and at home, you're teaching your children, don't you want like that nursery leader, you want all kinds of people in your children's lives and so we can participate with those parents.

You mentioned Sister Porter having primary during the week when you were younger. My grandma recently had kind of a crazy experience years ago. They had primary during the week and they were calling the kids in from like the church yard. And there was a little boy who lived right near the church who was not a member of the church.

And so all the other kids came inside to go to primary and I guess my grandma just. Said, Hey, do you wanna come in with us? And that little boy ended up joining the church and so decades have passed and he recently came back to visit my grandma and to thank her for inviting him into primary. And it's just, it's so neat to me to think that all over the world, there are primary teachers that have this tremendous opportunity to have an impact.

Your introduction. To general church service was when your husband, elder Bruce D. Porter was called into the 70. Elder Porter passed away in 2016, but I will tell you, sister Porter, and this is, I don't know why I had this thought, but the very first time that you stood up to speak in general conference, I remember thinking he has to be so proud.

Of her. And so I wondered if you have felt him with you during your time in the primary general presidency, and how have you found that the experiences that the two of you shared together have prepared you for this experience that you're having now? So for both questions. President Jeffrey R. Holland spoke so well and, and I know Joseph F.

Smith spoke a lot about who would be our ministering angels, who would be helping us, who would be our departed loved ones. So especially for Bruce, who served full-time church service at the general level for 20 years and for 13 of those years, he probably had 11 surgeries surrounding kidney failure and kidney transplants and so forth.

So he was able to serve. And I was called to serve, to help him. Right. You know, I, I, we did home dialysis for a number of years and things so that he could use all of the energy he had in the calling. I kind of, you know, took everything else, which I was happy to do, and I remember when. He received his third transplant and he finally was then feeling good.

He didn't have to have dialysis five days a week. And he said, Susan, I want to serve you. And uh, we were called and went back to Moscow, and of course nobody knew at that time, but two and a half years later, he would pass away. And so I felt. So much I, I felt the sense of joy for him. Like finally I can help her.

I don't have time restrictions. I don't have energy and health restrictions. So it's different than if he was here and, you know, fixing the car or you know, doing, you know, a lot of those things. But I have definitely felt his help in this responsibility and I think it's giving us both joy. You have lived in a lot of different places throughout your life.

You were born in Oklahoma, you mentioned you were raised in New York, and then you raised your family in Massachusetts, Virginia, and Germany. How do you feel that those experiences uniquely prepared you, especially as the church I feel like is growing increasingly worldwide? Oh, it had a profound effect starting in, you know, the small, well, most of my life in what we've call the mission field.

So that small branch growing up, of course. And then with our, our children in Virginia, Boston, and those weren't small branches, but again, it's the mission field where you might different be. Yeah. The only, the only member of the church in your class. And then those last, uh, two and a half years, we lived in Moscow and our, our children were grown.

So it was Bruce and I, but I remember very vividly, sister Rosemary Wickham came. General primary president, and so Bruce and I took her to St. Petersburg and other places and of course with an eye on primary, and it really opened our eyes to the fact that. Every single person called to serve in primary had never been to primary.

It was a first generation church, and so what was happening was they loved children, but they were simply doing the only thing they knew, which was either primary is a time to entertain children while mom and dad learned the gospel. So children were doing origami and other things or. It's a time to teach children the gospel.

And the way they do it in school is the children sit and the teacher sits at a table and you sit and you learn. So they had the absolute best intentions. They loved the children, but they had never seen what it meant to engage children. So. We at that time, it really opened our eyes. So we, the wives of the Erie presidency, the area presidency, the, we didn't have Erie Organization advisors.

So we worked together to really help our brothers and sisters in primary get a vision of what it is. And so sitting here in Salt Lake, that has really influenced us profoundly. One where we have really looked at, um. To help primary leaders get the vision of primary is the example of the savior, and especially when the resurrected savior came to visit the Nephites.

There are three separate occasions in third Nephi when he came that are such a great example. For us as to how to reach children. The first is when he first came. And you remember they're gathered around the temple in bountiful and they hear a voice and they don't know what it is, and they look up and the third time, and it's the father introducing the son.

We remember. And then he comes down and then he invites everyone to come up, remember and feel. So we often focus on the fact that it was one by one, which is very important. But you think there were adults, there were youth, there were children. And how they describe it at the end is that they did see with their eyes and did feel with their hands and did no of assurity and did bear record.

We have used that for. Throughout my service. When chil, when you have children, use all of their senses, help them hear something, see something, feel something, and do something to bear record. And if we just can think about that interaction of the savior with his people, and we know that those are the people, those children who had that experience with the savior.

They were faithful for 200 years. So we think let's give children an experience. Let's just not sit them down and, and give the lesson. Let's not just invite them to memorize the words of the song. Let's involve them. We love to say we want to engage, not entertain, engage. Indicate something exciting and we're engaged.

It's participating in its learning through participating. That's powerful. I feel like more and more our society has an approach of what's in it for me, especially adults. And I saw a post on Instagram recently by Brooke Romney, who's a member of the church, and she said this and it really, it hit home for me.

She said, if we all only do the things we love, the things that spark joy, the things that don't bring added stress, who does the rest? There isn't an army of. People who find joy doing undesirable things. There aren't a bunch of adults with nothing better to do. There are just good people who are willing to contribute anyway.

When we fixate on what is good for us in the moment, we often miss what is good for us in the long run. And I've thought about that a lot and about why we serve faithfully in callings, even when it's not convenient and, uh, may not be the calling that maybe we'd hoped we'd get. But I have also found myself, especially since receiving this calling, pondering the blessings of church service.

And so I wondered what would be your case for wholeheartedly serving in the church in any calling. I've thought about the savior's, uh, invitation to his apostles to leave their nets and come follow me and I will make you fishers of men. So he's basically saying, leave behind what is comfortable. What was comfortable was they knew how to catch fish.

So he is saying, leave that behind, trust me, and I'm going to. Increase you, your, your capacity to be fishers of men in a way you never knew before. And that's the opportunity of callings, whether it's to be a nursery leader and you have no clue what you're gonna do, or an activity leader, and you feel like, well, the best thing to do is to sit at home alone and read a book, and now I've got a plan.

So and so, whatever it is, it's the Lord's invitation to you. To increase your capacity, your spiritual capacity. The other thing is if we're called to a calling and we think, oh, I know exactly how to do this. I, I've been preparing my whole life for the Lord cannot work with you. So if you instead are calling, you think, I have no clue.

This is co completely over my head, over my head, or I feel like it's. Beneath my capacity. So you might think that, but it's an invitation to grow closer to the Lord and to learn how to do things his way. Thank you so much. One thing that a fellow primary teacher, 'cause I have been a primary teacher, she and I were talking about on this this past Sunday.

Is that it seems like it's more and more difficult to engage primary children than it has ever been. And so I wondered what have you found, you kind of have touched on the the senses, so I feel like that that may be your answer, but is there anything else you would say as far as what you found to be most effective in creating an environment where children can feel the spirit and learn?

Yeah, there's a couple of things. So in teaching in the Savior's way, you, you scroll down near about three-fourths down and it will say, you know, teaching strategies for a variety of learners. And then you scroll down there, it's how helps in teaching in the home and so forth. And you come down to teaching children and it gives you six ideas.

Children are creative, children are curious. Children leave, need love, even when they are disruptive. Children need, they need variety using their senses, all of their senses. Children have much to share and children feel the spirit, but need help identifying it. So I think I, I heard. Cute story. It was a, at one of our general officers, uh, general presidents was released a few years ago, and she and her husband were called to teach primaries, co-teachers.

So he said, well, I'll do it. I'll do it. The first time he spent all week preparing this 20 minute lesson. I mean, it was like prepared and it was a disaster. This is in his own words. He had in mind Gospel doctrine class, right? So engaging children takes. A lot of creative thinking, so that's one. The second thing I would say that we have learned and we want to do is we want to invite the children to participate.

I don't just mean answering a question, I mean things like. Calling the mom or dad in the week and saying, we're gonna be talking about Enus next week, and praying. Can you talk with Sally about an experience she's had in prayer that she might be willing to share? You know, next week in our class, really trying to invite the children to be participating in the learning and to be teaching their peers.

I, I completely agree with that. I think sometimes it feels trickier to be ahead enough to make that phone call, and that alone requires preparation, but I think that that's, that's powerful. The, the handbook of the church is updated regularly and at times I feel like it can feel difficult to even stay up to date on what has been added or taken away.

And so I wondered, what would you say have been some of the most important changes in the handbook as it relates to the primary in recent years? I'll start first with something that's been in the handbook all along. We just had our eyes open to what it means. Okay. In the handbook, it directs members of Bishop Ricks when they're inviting speakers for SA meeting to invite members of the ward.

Okay? So what have we always thought that meant? Our youth and our adults, right? Okay, so what happens when a child is baptized and confirmed? So we always know, we say, what happens when you're confirmed? I receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. What's the very first thing that happens? They are confirmed. A member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

It's always been there that our baptized children are full members of the Church of Jesus Christ, of Latterday Saints, and can be invited to be speakers in SA meeting state conferences and other church meetings, and they are participating as members. No handbook change. Just having our eyes open to what that means.

We now receive pictures every week. I just was down there on a computer and received one from a member of the 70 who was just up in Idaho, and he had. We're not supposed to take pictures in a sacker meeting, but he was sitting on the stand and he took a little cell phone picture of a primary child, nine years old, on a box speaking in state conference.

His mother reported, he wrote his own talk. It was focused on the savior and it invited the spirit. So there's a non handbook change, but having our eyes open, this can have a profound impact on our children. When they come to SAAC meeting, they can think, my job in SAAC meeting is to be quiet. So mom and dad learn in their meeting.

And then I get to go to my meeting, actually SA meeting the Lord. Invited everybody. The Lord could have said second meeting. We want it reverent. We want it quiet. We want it adult focused. So let's have something. Let's have primary during second meeting, basically. No, the whole family's there. So the question we like to ask, what are we doing in this meeting to nourish everyone?

The Lord has invited and primary baptized children can be nourishing. I'll just point out two other changes. One is that there is now a baptism and confirmation meeting. A lot of words have held it. It hasn't been in the handbook. That's another thing that opened our eyes is worst on the handbook waiting.

Wait a minute. So it's an invitation to gather parents and their children at the beginning of the year, all the children who were turn eight. And the focus is not on where are the white clothes and how do we make the water warm? And what weak it is it. That's fine, but to really introduce them, the idea that they are gonna be making a covenant with Heavenly Father.

And what is that covenant and a companion to that is the baptism and confirmation issue of the friend magazine. Okay? It's an evergreen issue. Every ward can order, and if parents and their children then can go home from that meeting with that, what beautiful church support for parents to help their children prepare for that important, uh, covenant.

First Covenant, they'll make. Second is the annual community service activity, so we. We want children to learn to love Heavenly Father. We teach them the scriptures every week. We want them to help their families, and now we're inviting them to look out as members of his church. So the valiant age, children are invited to help plan and carry out.

A service activity that blesses children in their community. And so talk about engaging children. We're inviting them to step up. It's not children. This is what the primary presidency has decided to do. You know, bring this and do this. It's the children counseling together. Maybe they can be invited to come back the next week, talk to mom and dad, get on Jeff Serve.

What are some ideas of needs of children in our community? Come back, let's talk about it. They can make the invitations. They can invite their friends. It's like a missionary opportunity. Children are bombarded with the world at younger and younger ages. And so we can invite them to be members of his church to participate, to lead to plan, which will strengthen their faith in Jesus Christ and his gospel.

I love that. All of those three things kind of seem like they go together, meaning kind of inviting them to. Grow up a little bit and I, I, as you were talking about having young. Members of the church speak in sacrament, meaning one of the most impactful talks I've heard in recent years was given by a primary age boy in our ward in Philadelphia.

And he was talking about the 10 lepers. And I still remember he said the other nine didn't come back because they were so excited that they had been healed. And I had never thought of it that way. I think I had always thought of the nine lepers were just ungrateful. And um, it made me think, you know, even when I'm excited to receive a blessing.

Do I make sure that Heavenly Father knows that I'm grateful? Sister Porter, I, I think as a newly called primary leader, the logistics and the weight of it all can feel overwhelming. I wondered, what would you, what would your counsel be in terms of avoiding overwhelm while also giving children the best experience possible?

I love that the Lord operates his church through councils. The council of the first presidency, the Council of the Quorum of the 12. So as new primary president, your council is your presidency, and then I invite you to think about how you can engage the teachers in a primary teacher council. Okay. And.

Minimally. The purpose would be, for instance, to use teaching and Savior's way. You know, some of those things I mentioned earlier or whatever, and to help, help the primary teachers feel supported. It's also a council. In other words, what are you seeing in the Sunbeam class? Sister Jones, how can we help you?

How can we counsel together? I am new in the ward. Tell me about the primary SAAC meeting presentations. What, what has helped the children feel really engaged in that process so that you can counsel together on all of those things you're worried about? You have a whole group of teachers that will really help them because if I get called into young Women's, I know that I'm two things.

I'm gonna get to know some great young women and I'm gonna get to feel like. This group of young women leaders are gonna become my friends. We can create that in primary 'cause often it's, well, I come and teach the sunbeams every week for 20 minutes, and then I go home and that's it. That's it. And, and they're kind of wild.

Maybe they're on the chairs and I'm feeling overwhelmed. So I hope the Bishop releases me after one year instead of. Oh, I get to meet with all these teachers and we share thoughts, and we share ideas, and we support one another, and we become friends and we're supporting one another. I just recommend creating that.

Oh, I'm in primary and I've just made the most wonderful friends in our callings. I completely agree. My husband and I were called as primary leaders when we were newly married, and our initial reaction was, we've just moved into this ward. We're not gonna make any friends. We're not gonna get to know anyone.

And that calling actually ended up being a tremendous blessing for one, we learned to teach together and we didn't have kids yet. It reminded us of all the primary songs and then we also got to be around, I felt like some of. The best people in our ward. And so I do think sometimes I think when you get that primary calling, there's a reaction of, oh, I'm gonna be siloed off.

And I don't think that has to be the case. Your counselor sister, Tracy Browning, delivered what I considered to be a beautiful sermon in the last general conference about the power of primary songs, and I love primary songs. You have had the opportunity to be an advisor serving on the committee for the new hymn book, and so I.

Wondered, could you share some of your feelings about the power of primary songs, and why would you say that the primary CHO or music leader is a tremendously important calling? Personally, I think it's the best calling in the church. I agree.

If we think about who the Lord is raising up to write this music for our children in this day, it is incredible. Uh, you ask three year olds, what is your favorite primary song? Nine outta 10 times, they will say, Gethsemane. Okay. Five years ago, would you say that a 3-year-old could pronounce that word or know what it is?

You have adults crying. When we sing that in SA meeting, I will walk with Jesus and he will walk with me. Can you imagine a primary child at school? Friends no longer wanna play with them. They're alone. Kids are making fun of him and they're singing in their mind. I will walk with Jesus and he will walk with me.

I was in a meeting where we're looking forward to the 200th anniversary of the establishment of the church. And talking about how can we help people know that we're just not learning the events and the dates. You know, when did Peter James and John come, you know? But we want them to know how it really impacts them personally.

First thing that came to my mind was the primary song I will Find My own Sacred Grove. So that song in the verse teaches about what the prophet Joseph Smith did, and then it says, basically the song is, I Too Can Find My Own Place to Pour Out My Heart to Heavenly Father. So the songs help create, I think I bridge between what we're learning in church and our lived experience and can give us power and comfort and teaching.

No matter what life throws. I also loved the song Gethsemane, and recently my little girl in the middle of the sacrament, as they're passing the sacrament, she just started belting out Gethsemane. And I was like, I can't get mad at her. She's singing exactly what the sacrament is about, but everybody in our ward afterward kept coming up and saying, man, that was the best part of church today.

Sister Porter, you have talked previously about making primary a place of security. How do we best do that? I would love to see every primary child greeted at the door, either by a teacher member of the primary presidency, but even better if depends how your primary works. But some of those baptized children who are members of the church, inviting them to learn the name of the children.

So every child who walks in that door is greeted by name. However you try to do it, but we wanna create, so children know it's, they are feeling something different in primary than they feel at school or scouts or chess club or soccer or whatever it is. And those are all good things when they want walk into primary.

And so that when. To me, walking in the door, hearing their name, being greeted and having the music playing. They can feel, and, and maybe it's a primary song they know, so now the words are going through their head and they're feeling this is a place where I'm safe. Yes. And I'm loved and I'm known. Those are beautiful suggestions.

Okay. I have one question before we get to our last question. If you had one message that you wish would sink deeply into the hearts of the children of the church, what would it be? Heavenly father knows you. Heavenly father loves you, and the heavenly Father needs you. He needs you when you're in your family, when you're at school, when you're with your friends to show his love to others, miracles can happen.

He needs you. Thank you so much, sister reporter. It has been such a treat to learn from you, and I can't wait to revisit your thoughts again and again. I know I'm gonna need them. My last question for you is, what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? Yes, I've thought about that. I think for any of us, it, that could be a one hour conversation.

But the first to me that says it in the briefest possible way is Doctrine and Covenants, section six verse 36, where it says, look unto me in every thought, doubt, not fear, not. So if I am all in the gospel of Jesus Christ, which means to me. Everything I do, every experience I have, I look unto Christ for help, for strength, for direction, for gratitude, that I am looking unto him with that eye of my life.

This life is a gift. You know, we lived with God as spirits. We came to earth, received a body as a gift. It's a great, great blessing to be here for a long time, for a short time, but we can learn things here with his help that will bless his through eternity. So to me, being all in means look unto me in every thought.

And doubt not. In other words, I take that to mean doubt. Not that he's there, he is there. Maybe I can't see him right now. Maybe I can't feel him right now. He is there. Don't doubt and don't fear. He's overcome everything. Everything you have in your life, he's already overcome it so you can move forward.

With this interesting combination of humility and confidence, humility is 'cause we're weak. Confidence is in him and that. I think is what it means to me to be all in. Thank you so much, Sister Porter. You're a delight. Thank you, mark. We are so grateful to President Porter for joining us for this episode.

We are also grateful as always, to Derek Campbell of Mix at six studios for his help with this episode, and we're so grateful to you for spending your valuable time with us. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll look forward to being with you again next week.