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By my count, the parable of the 10 virgins has been discussed in general conference at least seven times in the last six years. It is clear that this parable, for whatever reason, is particularly important and relevant to our day, but why last year I heard a woman present on this very topic and have not been able to get what she shared off my mind.

I wanted to share what she shared with me, with you. Fortunately, she was gracious enough to join me here. DeAnn Sadler is a native of Salt Lake City. She traveled extensively with President Reagan on his advance team as she and her former husband were hosting couple for the United States being appointed as Deputy Chief of Protocol.

She has worked with the church's temples and special projects departments to provide further education and training for their designers. And she's also a freelance interior designer. Deanne taught for eight years in the church education system and has authored a book titled A Window into God's Garden.

Additionally, she has written articles and given numerous presentations on temples and sacred architecture. She has directed tours to Italy, Greece, and Israel, and she's the mother of four children.

This is all in an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson, and I'm so honored to have Deanne Sadler on the line with me today. Deanne, welcome. Thank you. This is an honor to talk with you tonight, Morgan. Thanks. Well, I will get into Deanne later about how I was introduced to you, but I wanna start out, as I was preparing for this interview, I looked up your background and learned that you've had, you've had some fascinating life experiences, but I wanna start with, um, you worked in for the church education system for a bit and then most recently you've been [00:02:00] working.

With a prison. I'm in a church calling. Is it, is it a calling? Yes. Okay. And, and in that calling, you have been working on a new manual to help those in prison with the principal of forgiveness, which I just think is so cool. So I wondered if you could share a little bit about that experience and. Kind of how, also maybe how you feel like your life experiences led you to be able to contribute to this particular manual.

Oh, that's a really interesting question. That's all. My first calling was to teach institute at the prison to the women. There's six branches out at the prison and one that is the women's branch. It's called the Dell Branch. And so I teach institute on Saturday nights out there, and I team teach with another couple we did every other week.

But after a year, year and a half, [00:03:00] we kind of sat down and started talking about these women and how much we love them, and it was clear. That almost all of these broken souls, I'm just gonna, are having such a difficult time, not asking the Lord for forgiveness necessarily, but trying to find a way to extend forgiveness basically to themselves and other people.

And so they, they were, they were just stuck and we started batting around ideas and we thought, you know, there's nothing that's really written. There's a lot that's talking about, you know, the Lord forgiving us, but there's not very much that's written about how do we forgive others? And so we just really felt moved to want to write this manual so we.

We knew that forgiveness brought healing, but we were, you know, just questioning how, how do we get these principles across? So we thought it would be a great idea if we did try to write a [00:04:00] manual and we did. It was a great experience and we entitled it the Power to Give a Gift from Jesus Christ. And we.

Once we go through this step-by-step process, it's a 12 week course on how to help people understand how to, how to forgive, um, forgiveness and find hope and faith in Jesus Christ to do so. And I'm just, you know, we, we pilot it with the. Women, and I'm just so indebted to them and their courage to face just their deepest pains and anger and guilt.

And through heartfelt conversations and shared experiences, we just witnessed it. Mighty miracles unfold in this class. People forgiving spouses and children and parents and I mean, it was a beautiful thing to witness, so. I was awful. Then after we did that first pilot, we were asked to do it in the men's prison and like just two weeks ago, [00:05:00] we just barely finished up that and it was equally, um, empowering and exciting.

So I'm just glad that that's something that's out there now that people can use. I think it's interesting, Deanne, how often I feel like the Lord gives us experiences that then allow us to help other people. And I feel like I, I listened to a podcast interview that you did, um, on a podcast about divorce, which is something that you personally experienced.

And so you talk about forgiving a spouse, you know, something about that. And, and working through the, the process of forgiveness to find healing. And one thing that impressed me that you said on that podcast is you talked about how your. You. You looked around and you saw some people who their divorce continued to be [00:06:00] like top of mind and a source of bitterness, and you said you never wanted to be like that.

And so obviously that's something that takes work. So how did you feel like your experience with forgiveness then allowed you to help these people in prison now? Well, I appreciate you asking that because I feel like it, like you said at first, when we go through things, if we can't share what we've learned, what's, what's really the point of going through it and I, I felt like.

With my divorce, I worked hard to be able to be in a place where I wasn't just dripping bitterness around. I didn't want to be that, you know, woman that hated men and had seven cats and never left her house. So I just, I, I didn't want that to be a part of my life. And so I worked really hard to forgive my husband and for, and for what he had [00:07:00] done and for abandoning our family like he did.

Really bashing our, our dreams and our hopes that we have for an eternal life together. And so I, I went through a lot of, a lot of work on that and. Eventually was I, you know, through the power of the savior and the atonement. I was healed from that. He took it from me and I, I can share deeper stories about that, but basically what it did is it put me in a place to be a credible witness to that power to these women.

Virtually, I think 18 out of the 20 women in my class are divorced, and so when I stand up and I teach about the power of forgiveness and, and a life that can be created after divorce, I have some credibility. You know, I'm never really grateful that I went through that, but I am grateful I can share what I've learned because of it.[00:08:00]

Well, you are remarkable. I, I love, I love thinking about those women looking at you and seeing what they're capable of. Becoming in a sense, you know, I think sometimes we have to have a vision of somebody that has been through something that we've been through to then be able to, to have hope for ourselves.

So Deanne, I was introduced to you through a, a luncheon that I attended last year, and you shared kind of just your personal study, which I was inspired by because I think that. We each have this ability to become interested in some scriptural topic or something within the gospel, and to delve deeply into it and drink deeply of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And so I think what we're gonna talk about today is such a good example of that. But I wanna kind of, kind of set it up this way. Speaking [00:09:00] during the Saturday afternoon session of the April, 2025 General Conference, president D Jokes said that the Savior's parable of the 10 virgins had been in quotes, spoken of so frequently in this conference.

And I remember thinking that, thinking, man, this really has been talked about a lot lately in general conference, and I wondered to, to kind of start us off, why do you think we've heard. This parable reference so frequently in recent years. Well, Morgan, you obviously have, um, ears to hear and eyes to see because you've picked up on the frequency in which our prophets have referenced this parable and, and the second coming and I did a little research and before.

2011. So before 2011, like I don't even know if a heartfelt but probably 80 years. There were only two conference talks that referenced. The second coming [00:10:00] one was in 1978 by La Grande Richards, and then the second one was in 2004 by President D Oaks. So I thought, wow. Since then, since 2011, there have been 12 talks.

On the second coming. And so, you know, I just think the Lord knows what's ahead and he's so merciful and he is gonna be so generous in helping us prepare for his son's arrival. You know, we're taught in Amos that the Lord God will do nothing, but he will reveal his secrets and to his servants, the prophets.

So I believe that's what we're wi witnessing in our day. And if we have ears to hear and eyes to see. We're gonna, we're, we'll see more of this because he's preparing us and I hope that we keep our eyes on President Fall Oaks. 'cause I think he'll have more to say. Absolutely. So I'm curious, is this the [00:11:00] frequency, is that what initially made you become interested in this parable or was it, there's something more.

No, well, it was kind of a perfect storm actually. I have a sister-in-law who is Jewish, but she's a member of, um, the church. She's Christ Library Saints, but she often goes to Jewish weddings and bar Mitzvahs and Bat Mitzvahs, and she brings back pictures and tells us stories all about it. And I is just, it's just so fascinating to me.

And so I'm somewhat familiar with her. Traditions. And then I've led a few tours to Israel and I've tried to immerse myself in the Jewish culture that I just, I just think it's so fascinating. And, but the tipping point, I think, was a year ago when Elder Christofferson it was who was speaking to the C in CES devotional.

And once a year, general Authority tries to speak to all of the CES [00:12:00] employees and helping them become better teachers. And he was trying to show how the savior taught. And through his teachings, he was able to develop lifelong disciples of Jesus Christ. And so he made three suggestions, and the three suggestions were one.

Draw on the parables to ask conspire questions. And three extend personal invitations. So I, with all of those kind of events, I had kind of been looking at the parable, the 10 versions there, and I thought, you know, I, I really need to draw on this. But, so I just, because of all of those things, I was so interested in it and I, I started reading more about the context of this version and I started to look at ancient.

Wedding Hebrew rituals. I was blown away at what I found and I, what I found is this [00:13:00] parable, it's this one little chapter out of an entire story about, um, a bride groom his trying to prepare to marry his bride. And once you see the story and the scriptures, you can't unsee it. It's everywhere. Yeah. So.

That's what drove me. Yeah. Well, I just, I think it's so cool. It's cool to think that Elder Christofferson said that and that you were like, okay, let's, let's dive in. Let's see. I wanna ask, before we get too far into this, how would you say now, on the other side of this study, how has your personal study of this parable blessed your life?

Oh gosh. It, it blesses my life seriously almost every day because I have a picture of the big story. I have the big view, I have the macro in front of [00:14:00] me, and it helps me see how patient and loving the bridegroom is to the House of Israel. So it's blessed my life in. I don't worry. I don't worry about being alone.

I don't worry about, have I met these requirements? Have I done this? Have I done that? I just wanna be a faithful bride to the bridegroom. That's it. And so it simplified my life a whole bunch, and that's been such a blessing to me. I think that is, it's neat to see. As we draw closer to the Lord, how he really does take away our fears and whatever that fear is.

It could be, like you said, fear of being alone, but it could be a million different, a million different fears. Yeah. Okay, so Deanne, when I, when I heard you speak, [00:15:00] your presentation was titled The Second Coming, waiting Upon the Bride Groom, A Love Story in the Making. And maybe it's just the Girl in Me that loves a good Chick flick, but I love the idea of this being a love story.

And so I wanted to ask you, why would you say that this is the most beautiful love story? Okay, well. If it's okay, I'd like to come back to that question after I've explained a few of the steps. Yeah. Of this ancient Hebrew wedding ritual. And then I think you'll be able to see for yourself how it is such a beautiful love story.

And it's not over yet, it's still in the making and, and that it's exciting, so I love it. We'll, we'll come back. Okay. Okay. That's perfect. Okay, so I, I wanted to kind of outline, there are a couple different, a few different questions that you kind of outlined to [00:16:00] set an expectation for the things that we were gonna go through together.

And one of the first one was, how are these ancient marriage rituals and that you mentioned earlier a pattern for the second coming. So should we start there? Yeah, that's great. Perfect. That'll be great. Well, these rituals are fascinating. There is so much symbolism here, and God's chosen this ancient custom.

It's been around for 3,500 years, to show you that this will be the same sequence and the same pattern that he'll use to redeem you and me. And so the father wants us to understand that Jesus is a bridegroom. And the house of Israel is the bride. Okay? So since all of us are in the house of Israel, that means that all of us consider, can consider ourselves his bride.

And this isn't some like just weird scriptural contract. [00:17:00] It, it's tender, it's personal, it's real. And how Jesus is going to come back to redeem you and to get you. And Jesus redeeming his bride. Is woven throughout all of the scripture. It's, it's just everywhere. So let me just jump to a few examples, if that's okay.

Perfect. I'm just gonna walk through three of the, of the steps of the wedding ritual. There's more, but I'll just talk about these three. Okay. Okay. I can talk forever about those. So, through this entire, the bride is given three opportunities to say yes. And she all, that's all she has to do is say yes and indicated she wants to continue, continue with this agreement.

So here's how it starts. The father and son, it all starts in the father's house. All of it. And the father will approach [00:18:00] the son. Now think of the preexistence. Think, think of this outside of wedding rituals. Think of of what you know. The father will approach the son and ask him if he is willing to move forward with the marriage proposal.

And he may or may not ask the son's preference, but his father will choose the bride for the bridegroom. So who chose the bride for Jesus? The father did. He chose the house of Israel to be Jesus's bride. So then the father and the son, they are going to go to the bride's home. This is the first step and um, it's called the Duku.

The Duku. And this represents the first coming of the savior in this big picture. Okay, the should you come. And they will go to the bride's house and they will knock on the door. And you can imagine that this bride is, she's probably peeking out, looking to see what's this guy look like? Am I gonna like him?

[00:19:00] And she opens if he, they knock on the door and if the bride opens the door. She is saying she's willing to move forward with the negotiations. So if you open that door, you're agreeing to be married to him, bound to him, you'll be loyal and true to him for the rest of your life. This is how it works. So, I mean, and this to me, you know, it is so familiar that scripture, behold, I stand at the door and knock.

If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him and eat with him, and he with me. It's beautiful. And so the second stage of this process is called the Aine, and that means the binding that this couple is now gonna be bound together and the sun will pour a cup of wine and will offer it to the bride.

And if she drinks it again, this indicates she's willing to move forward in this process. And once she does, once she [00:20:00] says yes, she is now legally married. It's binding before the ceremony even happens. So if you think of the, this whole process of your own temple covenants, think about when you're in the temple, if you're given the opportunity to say yes and.

We are saying we are in a relationship with God and we're willing to keep his promises. And so then the third stage of the Be Travel is called the signing of the Katuba. So this is so beautiful Anciently. The Katuba was usually written on a beautiful piece of blue paper and it is the formal marriage document, right?

It has the terms of the contract were written underneath the Jerusalem arch that was drawn on this piece of paper, and then all of everything that the bridegroom said he would [00:21:00] do is written there and it's a protection for the bride. It was all about what the bridegroom would do for her and what he would offer her.

And again, all the woman had to do was stay loyal, read true to him, and wait until he came for her. His job then was to provide food, clothing, shelter, opportunity, and if a woman was ever captured, which this happened quite frequently in the ancient world and taken into slavery, he promises that he will redeem her if she's ever cap ever captured.

So. This was such a loving safety net for the bride and the belonging and care of the bride to the bride cream. I mean, this was such a serious and, um, stewardship because she was so valuable and he was to take care of her and cherish her forever. Biscuit Tubo was something they could count on, so then they would sign it and then they would legally be married there.

That [00:22:00] was done. It was it. Today you can go into some devout, um, Jewish people's homes and they will have their dupa that they have written and signed, and it's probably like hanging, hanging above their mantle in their living room or something. And it's kind of neat to see. And the beautiful thing about this is in, um.

I think it was 2018, president Nelson said, we have a new symbol and a logo for the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It's Christ underneath the Jerusalem arch on a beautiful blue background. It is a Katuba news. Inside the Jerusalem arch is Christ. He is a covenant, and the terms of his promises are all about what he's going to do as a groom.

To redeem and take care of his bride. So it's, I mean, isn't that cool? That's, that's just blows my mind. So cool. It's so cool to think about. Okay, [00:23:00] Deanne, so I am curious, how do these rituals relate to your and my temple covenants? Okay, well, yeah, let's, let's personalize it and ask what, what do your covenants offer you now?

Think about what we talked about, um, of what the bridegroom would do for the bride. The new one, everlasting Covenant, it allows you to free yourself from spiritual bondage. It allows you to access the redeeming power of the atonement through Christ. And it also. That covenant allows you to become a disciple of Jesus Christ in name, and to re represent him well.

You take upon him his name and his way of life. Um, that, that gives you power. And the new one. Everlasting, Kevin allows you to build your life on the rock of your redeemer. [00:24:00] That foundation gives you sure footing. And you know, these women at that time that that was everything they had was the man in their life.

But for us, the savior allows us this footing and dispels darkness and plants us in his light. And then another. I mean, there's so many ways, but another way I was thinking that the covenant allows you to experience confidence and protection and joy. You are free to live your life without fear or or uncertainty knowing he will always have your best interest in his heart.

And he's bound to you through those covenants. So there, there's power in it and that's what this whole story is teaching us. Yeah, I was just gonna say, it's interesting to hear you talk about, you know, the confidence that these temple covenants can give us and, and I think sometimes people look at. Our church or religion in [00:25:00] general and think that it doesn't empower women.

And I just think about, like you said, the Temple covenants and what they do for me, and how could you not feel empowered by that? Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Amen and amen. I, uh, I wanted to ask you, Deanne, the next, the next question that you posed was, how do these covenants relate to your relationship with Christ or with the Savior?

These rituals and these covenants are, maybe I can talk about one, one other one. Okay. At the time of, after the signing of the Katuba, the family. The father then offers what's called a mohar, and that's the dowry for the bride. And anciently, it would seem like the family is losing their daughter, and so they'll no longer [00:26:00] have her help.

And so this, the father gives the family a dowry and a dowry. Sounds like what? An endowment. It's this gift that keeps on giving, and it's intended to be an insurance policy for the bride in case something happens to the house. And so women are so important. They put all these cell fell safe in place for her.

So if you look at our own Temple endowment, it's not just another ordinance to check off the list of things to do. It's a gift from our bride groom, um, because of his enduring love for you, his bride. It's a gift that just keeps on giving and, and he offers all the ordinance you need to live your life powerfully and to come back into the presence of the father.

I mean, next time you go to the temple, listen to everything the bridegroom continually offers you. It's, it's beautiful. I think that that is super powerful to think about, and I, I hope that those [00:27:00] listening will recognize, and again, that's why I started this interview the way that I did, is I, I hope those listening will listen and, and recognize that like, if you think that the things that Deanna is sharing are fascinating, you can go and learn about.

Things just as much. And, and I, I think that that is really, really inspiring and, and there's so much to unpack. Oh, there's Christ. And there's so much more to this parable too. I mean, to this whole story. There's, uh, again, I could go on and on just, you know, the, after the signing, they send the, the, they are not gonna see each other now for a year.

They'll be apart, they'll be separated and before they've bragged. Groom leaves, he will give his bride a matan and it's a token or a gift that he gives it. Sometimes it's [00:28:00] jewelry, a piece, um, um, something like coins, and it's to. For the bride to know how special she is and so that every time she looks at that, she will remember him and his promise to come back.

To get him to get her. Hmm. And so when you think of our tokens, they are to remind us they are, um. To remind us, remind what the father is out there doing and the, and the name that we have promised to follow. And so he's, he leaves and he's going to be gone for a year and he's in the scriptures in John.

He says, I go and prepare a place for you. I will come again and receive you unto myself and where I am there you'll be also. So, you know, he goes and he has to build our home. He has to save up enough money for a year so they don't have to work the first year of his marriage. There's all kinds of things he needs to do [00:29:00] and, but he is not able to go and get her until the father tells him, you're ready.

Okay. You can go. And the father's the only one who knows. He is the only one who knows. So he says, watch, therefore, you know, not the hour when your Lord cometh. And that's, I think that's really cool too. Yeah. That starts the, you know, this is, this, this represents the second coming, and this is where the parable of the 10 virgins come in.

Now, this is where we pick this up. Um. Do you want me to, do you want me to continue? Yes. Yes. But really quickly, can I share, I love the quote by, uh, elder Maxwell that you shared in your presentation, um, where he says, clearly, since even the angels in heaven and otherwise reasonably well-informed group, do not know to be wary of mortals obsessed with calendaring.

I think that's that quote. I love Elder Maxwell, but that quote is so, [00:30:00] so good. Nobody says it like he can. No, he is. And I, you know, you just have to be, be very clear on the doctrine. No, nobody knows. Right? Only the father knows. Not even the son even knows until he is ready. So anyway, okay. So then, like you said, that's where the parable of the 10 virgins kind of comes in, so, so take, keep, keep going.

Okay. Okay. Well, they have about a half hour to prepare. There's a half hour of science. The, the father now has sent out a second invitation to all of his guests. Some of them will not remember about it. Some of 'em will reject the invitation, but they have about a half hour to prepare. And this is the bride.

Bride and her bridesmaids as well. And then the, so then the bridegroom heads out to get the bride, and this would usually happen at night. It's generally in at harvest time because this festival now is gonna last seven days. It's so, so symbolic that they come at night because the bride room [00:31:00] comes. An hour that you think not.

So they get their lamp lit and the celebration will begin. And you realize this has been a year, so this is the most festive, fun, loud, exciting night ever when this happened. And it's so romantic. They're so excited. It's finally come. They're all watching for it. So the groom starts their possession with this wedding party, and it's just so jubilant.

And it's cute. I read somewhere where the men would carry source to indicate he's coming to capture her heart. Isn't that, and so he, the bride groom will go and inform his best man that it is time. And so the best man will be there at the very front of the whole procession. He will blow the shofar. The shofar is that rams the horn.

Mm-hmm. The Trump. And it's to warn the bride and her attendance of the grooms on his way now. And so, you know, [00:32:00] we've always said, hear him, the bride's coming here, he comes. The Jews have seven main festivals and Rosh Hashanah is another name for that is the Day of Trumpets. That's one of their festivals.

And on this day, the shofar is blown. So who came on Rosh Hashanah in September in 1823 Marone. I came to Joseph Smith on Rosh Hashanah, which is crazy. Isn't that crazy? We depict him with a trumpet. He's the best man. He's coming to warn the bride. He brings the Book of Mormon to prepare us. That's the final invitations we're gonna receive to prepare before the wedding feast.

It's just, it's all, it's all in this story of this bride and the bride groom. It's so beautiful to watch. Wow. So it's such a joyful procession again. Scriptures talk about this. This is the parable. This is what we always talk [00:33:00] about, the, you know, is she ready or is a lamp still drawn to me? And I will draw near and to you.

And, and the marriage is the most important day of their lives. So once they finally meet, the men will carry an ion, which it's those four poles with a, with a box on top of it, and they will lift the bride up on that platform and carry her back to the father's house. That's called the lifting of the bride.

Okay, I'm looking at that picture right now. Yeah. How many times in scriptures as Christ refers to how he will lift you up? Uh, I I love this quote by Elder er Do. He said he will place you on his shoulders and carry you home because he loves you. He will find you, he will place you upon his shoulders, rejoicing.

Beautiful. Ah, I just love it. So they, they carry her to her father's house and the doors will be closed and bolted up after the [00:34:00] procession has entered. And then we know the part in the story where the five virgins try to buy oil in the middle of the night, and they come back and they knock on the door.

And in the in, in the JST, the scripture says, you never knew me, is what that says. So in ancient times, the. Door was of people's homes were open during the day, but at night they were bolt bolted shut. It was a dangerous time to live. You never left your doors unbolted. And they didn't have windows, really.

So feast were out every night, and the only way you knew who was outside was by their voice because you can't see each other. Mm-hmm. So the father comes to the door and asks questions to identify you. Does he recognize your voice? And do you, can you answer the questions he asked? Do you have a relationship with him?

I mean, come on. [00:35:00] So then the wedding piece begins, and so you can see how this is the most beautiful, beautiful love story in the making. And it, it's just so exciting when you think it's a great, the great and dreadful day is gonna be the greatest day for those who are prepared. And are waiting and want to hear him and cannot wait, wait to be part of that wedding feast.

So can I ask you a question, Deanne? I feel like one of the biggest questions that comes up in talking about this parable, not necessarily as it relates to the, to the Jewish wedding customs, but one of the biggest things that I feel like people talk about is why. Can't they share their oil? What is your understanding of that?

Well, my understanding is how do you share honesty with somebody? How do you share [00:36:00] your heart that you have become through service, that you have a heart of charity? How? How can you share that? Mm-hmm. Those are not shareable, right? Not. Are not transferable. Every metaphor falls apart and this, this, these drops of oil.

I think El Elder Ramond has a beautiful quote that he talks about those drops of oil and what they represent of our, you know, of our good works and, and the spirit of revelation that we gain. And you just, you know, as much as I'd love to share that with everybody that I know, I can't right. They, they have to, you know, so it, it's not a question of them being greedy.

If I could share my oil, I would in a heartbeat. Right. It's not transferable. I like that. Okay, so I have to ask you, I feel like as. [00:37:00] Someone who has been in a marriage previously that has fallen apart, that where your heart was broken. I wonder how does this idea of Christ as the bridegroom give you hope?

Oh, thank you for asking that because I think regardless of our marital status or how rewarding or challenging your marriage might be, I mean, if you're divorced, widowed, or a widower or never married, most of us want the ideal, don't we? I mean, I think most of us do, and so. I, you know, I wanted that in my marriage.

And after my divorce, I was heartbroken. I thought, no, this isn't happen to me. This happens to other people, not, not me. And it was so, so tough for me to move forward. It really was. But I turned to my covenants. I turned to my covenants. Just the little drop of faith that I could [00:38:00] glean every day. And I was reading one day, I was reading the story of In Hosea.

And I, I was just so touched by it. God had instructed Hosea to Mary Gomer, who repeatedly left, left him for other lovers. And despite her unfaithfulness, Hosea was commanded to love her and by her back and restore their marriage. And to me this just represented Christ's persistent redemptive love and, and the covenant, his covenant faithfulness to Israel, that he would do anything and, and wait forever.

And this was a story of a marriage covenant bound by his love and by his, his, his faithfulness. So I kind of just ha, it touched me because I thought here is an example of a faithful husband. Here is an example of someone [00:39:00] who no matter what, would have your back. And I knew that while I was waiting for my Thomas future blessings, I could have a relationship with my savior that was faithful and steady.

And when I felt, then I still feel that the Lord with whom I blessed to have made covenants loves me and he will always cherish me with steadfastness about. Which I, I continually marvel. I, I count on him. He will never betray me and all that's required of me is to be loyal to him and faithful await his coming.

And so because of that relationship and what I've learned of what kind of a. Of a bridegroom. The savior is, he has healed my broken heart and opened up so many opportunities and blessings that I just can't even begin to count them. That's beautiful. Deanne, thank you so much and [00:40:00] thank you for your example.

To me. I think you are remarkable. Um, my last question for you is, what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? Okay, well I guess we all knew this one was coming, right? Um, can I just share too? I did, yes. And you can cut about whatever you have time for. First, this might sound a bit shallow, but my family, we love to play games and my kids and I we're kind of nerds and we love to watch Jeopardy.

And when someone finds the Daily Double on Jeopardy, you get to choose how much you wanna bid and it. It's become this iconic gesture that if you put in everything you have, you take your hands and you've kept them, and you push 'em forward and you say, I'm all in Ken, and nothing is left. They've put everything on to double their score, and I'm a really [00:41:00] visual person, so.

I hear this on your podcast. I, I see this, I see this gesture of moving. I'm all in, and so every single thing I've been blessed with. I don't leave anything on the table. That's what it means to me. It's the lord's, it's, it's his disposal. And I, I don't hold anything back. It's a daily, it's a daily commitment.

And I said, I just can never catch up with him. Not only does he double my blessings, but he not a stingy God and he offers up a hundred fold and just continually showers him with so, so much blessing. So that's what it means to me personally, to be all in. But my second thought I wanted to share, because I've thought about this when you've asked that question, is what does it mean to be all in from God's perspective?

And in the 1960s, this, I keep thinking of this, my father purchased this gray Volkswagen [00:42:00] Beetle. They had seven children. I had six siblings, and his idea of fun was to cram all nine of us into this tiny Volkswagen. We could never get away with it today, but there were two toddlers in the very back, and then the four of us across the middle bench, and my mom in the front seat holding a baby.

My dad would get in and he'd slam the door and he'd look around and he'd say, okay, are we all in? He would just had the biggest smile on his face, and then we'd take off on our little Sunday afternoon drive having the best time. And it just wasn't the same if one of us was missing. And I believe our father in heaven feels the same way.

He sent his son, who's mighty, just saved to ensure that all his children will be all in. And when I go to the temple, every single person who attends that session makes it back into the presence of this father. So I kind of [00:43:00] feel like I wanna join Nephi in praying to the father and the name of Christ that many of us, if not all, may be saved in his kingdom.

That that great en last day. So, so well said. I love both of those analogies, so, such good visuals. Well, Dean, thank you so much for sharing the things that you've studied and learned and put time into. Um, they, they will benefit, they've benefited me and I know that they'll benefit so many other people. So thank you so much.

It has been a joy to be with you tonight. Thanks, Morgan.

We are so grateful to DeAnn Sadleir for joining us on this week's episode. As always, we're grateful to Derek Campbell of Mix at six studios for his help with this episode, and we are grateful to you for listening. We'll look forward to being with you again next week.