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In the May 2026 for the Strength of Youth magazine, Sister Emily Belle Freeman writes, "Maybe you wonder if you're seen by God, remembered, known. I remember feeling like this many years ago at a camp for young girls. I sat in my chair and listened as a wise woman reminded each of us that we were God's daughters.

She pulled out her scriptures and began to read a set of verses I had never studied before. 'But now thus saith the Lord that created thee: Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine. Since thou wast precious in my sight, I have loved thee. Fear not: for I am with thee.'

Isaiah 43:1, 4, and 5. As she read those words out loud to us, I was filled with a sense of great peace. The Lord knew my name. I was His, and I was loved." End quote. I think every young woman has this unspoken need for belonging, and if Sister Emily Belle Freeman needed that peace, and if Emily Susan Pack needed that peace, maybe you do, too.

Emily Susan Pack is a singer-songwriter, a comedian, and a content creator known for her comedic takes on Latter-day Saint culture. Some of my favorite songs of Emily's that you should look up include Nativity Chicken and Benson Boone. She and her husband, Kendall, are the parents of three children.

This is All In, an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson, and I am so honored to have Emily Susan Pack on the line with me today. Emily, welcome. Thank you for having me. I'm the one who's honored. Thanks for having me.

Oh, please, there's no reason to be honored, but I am s- I, I seriously have been so excited about this. Emily, I've followed Emily on Instagram for a bit now, and we've exchanged some messages, mostly because she knows my brother, which is so fun. Spencer. Yeah, shout out Spencer. It was so fun, um, recently when he sent a video clip from that Good Friday show, and there you were in the background playing the keys.

I was like, "Heyo." Spencer's great, and, um, everyone should go stream his music, for sure. See, I can't say that, but you can say it. Oh. So that's great. Yeah, go find, go find Spencer Jones on Spotify. He has the voice of an angel. Shout out. He told me, like, when I first... I think it was the Elder Holland, President Holland video that you did where you added the accompaniment.

That was, like, the first video that I saw. Oh. Spencer messaged me, 'cause I think I shared it on my Instagram story, and Spencer messaged me and was like, "That's my friend." And he was like- Aw ... "And she is one of the most talented songwriters I've ever met," so. Oh my gosh. There you have it. That's so sweet of him.

That's so nice. Um, well, I wanna start out I feel like you have such a good sense of humor, and I think that the ability to see the humor that's in, like, every day and all around us, and the humor that's not at the expense of somebody else is, like, the best form of humor. Totally. And so I wondered, how would you say that y- that, that form of humor, that gift has been fostered in your life?

Like, did that come naturally to you? I'm one of those people that doesn't know ... I'm one of those people that doesn't like when people are being mean around me, or I don't like when people are fighting, and I've always been that, "Hey, s- everybody stop fighting. Laugh at this instead" person. Change the subject.

Let's change the subject or, "Hey, actually, this thing we're all fighting about is pretty funny." And, like, I noticed at a young age how powerful that would be and, like, how much of a fire extinguisher humor could be, and also a way I, I could use humor to describe a complicated feeling. And so that's just kind of, I'm just kind of like that.

I have that, like, clown blood in me of just wanting to make fun of things. But I don't like making fun of people. I don't really like making people feel awkward. I don't like even really sarcasm that much, and those are some of the most, those are, like, the pillars of comedy. Like, make people feel weird and make fun of people and complain.

And that's just, like, not how I like to be. So I found out through improv comedy, I did a lot of improv comedy back in the day. Okay. And there's always, like, the panic of improv, of being on stage, and there's, like, you know, sometimes five people in the audience. And there's panic of, "Oh no, people aren't laughing."

And then sometimes you would do, like, you would just try to shock people into laughter. You would try to s- try to say something crazy or do something weird, and you would get them to laugh, but it wouldn't last very long. And people didn't really enjoy the show. And I learned that if instead of being worried about people are laughing or not, if I just focused on creating a good story or being truthful or drawing from my real-life experiences and just developing characters, then people would be laughing, and it would, like, it would build slowly, and then people would become fans.

Like, people- Mm ... would wanna hang out because they would feel good after the show. So even though people would be, you could shock people into laughter, people wouldn't come to your show the next week 'cause they would feel like garbage. But if instead you took the time to just create a good environment for people and help people feel seen through comedy, then people would come back the next week, and that's what I've tried to do on Instagram, too.

Well, that is so, it's so interesting. I'm not a comedian, far from it. But, like, thinking about the way that that works, because I'm thinking of, like, people that I find very funny, and that is the, the feeling that they cultivate is, like, oh, I could just- Yeah ... sit here fore- like, I don't feel uncomfortable at all.

I also love what you said about it, like, gave you an ability to describe, like, complex feelings. And I would guess that that's the reason that you're a good songwriter, too. Oh, yeah. Maybe. Thank you so much. But it's like, I wish I could just speak directly the way other people do, but I kind of need, like, the extra power, um, nuance or whatever, the extra tools of songwriting to kind of get through what I'm trying to say.

Yeah, which I think is true of a lot of people that are really good with songwriting, is, like, it, they put into words in a song what a lot of us are feeling and can't, can't say. Mm-hmm. Okay, the video that I was mentioning earlier that, that Spencer messaged me about was, you posted where you added accompaniment to President Holland's Amazing Grace.

Yeah. Which I think was, like, a moment that all of us will remember forever from General Conference, especially because it ended up being his last General Conference talk. Mm-hmm. But I learned in preparing for this interview that you only took one year of piano lessons. Is that right? Shout out to Sister Beardall in my ward growing up one summer.

I mean, the fact that you only took one year of piano lessons, and I took so many years of piano lessons- Good for you ... and have absolutely nothing to show for it is just very depressing. No, I mean, I was, like, the youngest kid, and my parents were like, "You could just figure it out." And so I took the summer lessons with Sister Beardall, and she was awesome 'cause she had the old Nintendo.

So my sister would have her turn with lessons, and I would play Duck Hunt. The... Is that right? I remember that game, yeah. I would play that in, in, like, her, in her bedroom. She would, like, have the video game set up for one of us, and then we'd switch. And I was just not really good at practicing, and I was really bad at, like, the discipline of music at that point, so my parents didn't put me in it again 'cause they were like, "You don't really appreciate it."

But I did need to learn piano, especially when I got in Young Women's. So I just had the green hymn book, and I would just play through that, and just play through until it sounded right. So that was the biggest thing that pushed me to learn music, was opening exercises of Young Women's and just trying to learn the hymns.

Well, I, I wanna start out and talk about your most recent viral reel because I thought it was so good, partially because I feel like The church announced these new young women class names, and everybody immediately started making fun of them. Mm-hmm. And you posted, and you were like, "I have a song coming out," and you were like, "It's not funny."

Which would've been the thing that people would've expected, because you write funny songs. Yeah. And instead, you wrote this really beautiful song. So I wondered, was that a deliberate decision to not be funny when people maybe would've expected you to be? And how did kind of that song come about for you?

I really only believe in writing about what you really feel. And, like, truth in comedy is the only thing I think ever works. And the truth is, I was just so relieved and grateful and joyous to hear about the new names. I remember when they took away Beehive, Laurel, Mia Maid, and I was a little sad, but it was also at the time with all these changes.

It moved to two-hour church, and Scouts was taken away, and Scouts was kind of like a financial burden on my ward. So it was, like, kind of like a relief of all these different things. And it was sad to see the names go, but there were all these changes, and I felt like, "Oh, and they're, and they're getting rid of the Scouts, and there's gonna be this big thing coming in."

And so I wasn't too sad about them getting rid of the names, 'cause I thought there was this big thing coming. But that was, like, was that seven years ago? And the names never came. And I served in Young Women's, and I, like, I felt this, like, I felt this gap of, like, the identity that the girls would have, and they came up with their own little fun names, but we also didn't, like, sing opening hymns together.

There wasn't, like... There's not the personal progress. All these things that were really important to me when I was a youth, that really helped me feel like I belonged, because I'm one of those kids that just didn't really feel like I belonged anywhere. But those things made me feel like I belonged. And then I saw that those were taken away.

And so when I opened up my phone in the morning, it was, like, such relief and joy. Like, I was, like, laughing with joy to just see that there was names announced. And so I was just reading, I'm like, "Yes, yes, yes," like, just excited, fully expecting everyone else to To feel the same way ... be excited. I was... 'Cause I thought everyone felt the same kind of stuff with the youth that I was feeling and seeing.

When we're doing a half-hour for Sunday school because we're gonna have the Young Women's meet every week, that changed also. Mm-hmm. Or what's the, what's the way to describe that? But I felt the same, I felt the same way knowing that young women are gonna meet every week. Right. Like, oh, thank goodness, because they need to see each other every week, at least what I've seen in, um, Young Women's in, in three different wards now.

I've been in three different wards since they made those changes Okay And there's, I've seen those young women, those young women struggling in those same ways in those different wards. So much to my relief, like answers to my prayers, that they're gonna meet every week, and they have these names, and I'm so excited.

And I ex- am expecting everyone to be excited, but then I go online and everyone is not excited. And I totally think it's okay to be critical of things. Like, I'm critical of things. I'm not like a, you know, shut up and like it person. Right. I'm definitely not that way. Right. But, uh, just me personally, I was psyched.

Me personally, I was relieved. I like them. I totally get the vision of them when I think about each, like role. And when I was just reading the descriptions too, so outside of the names, I wonder how many people like clicked through and read the statement behind the names and like describing these different age groups.

And I was just so struck by how beautiful they were, and like my brain was just kind of going on all these different things that these girls could be assigned to do under their names, and I loved it. And at the same time, everybody is sending them to me. Everybody's sending me, like DMing, like, "Can't wait to see what you write about this."

Oh, it's like, "Take them down. It, these are basically writing themselves." And I'm like, "No, I, I like them." And so I wrote this song, and I wrote it pretty quickly, like probably in a couple hours, because I just love them. I feel like- Nailed it ... it just wrote itself. Yeah. And in reading the statement from the church too, I was just like, "Yeah, I get this."

I was really just trying to use like almost word for word the description from the statement, just like retooled it a little bit so it would like flow and rhyme. But I was just like, I, I don't know, I was just loving it, and I was so surprised. Like, I didn't find a single person that day in writing it that also liked the names.

I was like, "Am I on an island?" Like even cool, like even people that are really like usually pretty positive in my life- Right. Right ... also hated them. I'm like, "What's going on?" I just don't get it. And like, I don't know, I try to be a pretty like optimistic person, but I don't know. I don't think I'm better than anyone.

Like I, I complain all the time. So I wrote this song, and I put it out there. And I was really tired that night because I had just, like I got done working like my second job, and I got home, and I was just gonna go to bed, but I told my husband like, "I really feel like I need to just go record that song right now and I just really wanna put it out tomorrow morning."

And I'm like so tired, and he's like, "Are you sure?" 'Cause it was kinda this like busy week where it was like- Don't worry, tonight you'll get sleep. And then on the night that I was supposed to get sleep, I was like, "I really gotta go record this song." Right. So I did. I, like, recorded it on my little laptop with my broken, uh, laptop and my crappy microphone on GarageBand.

Then I, like, finished recording it, and then the sun wasn't quite up yet, so I was like, "Okay, I'll get a couple hours of sleep, and then I'll record the video when the sun rises." And then I went out, and then the video is, like, oh my gosh, I look like I don't have any sleep. Like, my hair is crazy, and, like, my makeup is insane.

But I was like, "I'm just gonna put it out." And I really didn't think... I mean, no one ever thinks that things are gonna go that far, but definitely that song, I, I didn't think anyone was gonna like it. I thought everyone was just gonna say, "Stupid song. We hate the names. I thought you were gonna write something funny."

And I thought it was gonna tank, 'cause I have songs that tank, so I figured that one was gonna tank, but I just really wanted to put it out. But it didn't tank. It took off. Well, I, I appreciated that you did it, and I'll tell you why. I haven't been in Young Women since I was in Young Women, so I'm, I'm, like, I don't have a great perspective on it.

Yeah. And I was surprised by the number of friends that messaged me, like, "Please tell me what you think about this," you know? And- Yeah ... but a couple of years ago, so Sister Emily Belle Freeman, her son and daughter-in-law were in our ward in Philadelphia, and I knew Sister Freeman before. And so we met up in Philly while she was visiting them, and I remember two years ago her telling me, "I really feel strongly that these age groups, since we got rid of Beehive, My Maid and Laurel, there's been, like, a sense of identity lost."

And I'm- Yes ... I've... She's like, "I'm trying to get these names approved." And so I'm like, people have no idea how much time went into that and effort. Oh my gosh. And so I feel like that alone for me, I was like, if, if you knew that this sweet woman two years ago told me that she was working on this... And also, I keep thinking, I'm like, what would it have been like when they announced My Maid- Laurel

Laurel and Beehive if social media had existed, you know? Yes. Well, I think- But we all love those names ... yeah, if it was, like, you know, if they were, if it was something with Relief Society, like, we're changing the name of the Relief Society to, like, the Dragon Slayers or something. Like, if it was something for my peers, I would feel more empowered to complain, but because it's for teenage girls who just need constant affirmation and encouragement, like- I just feel like it's not in my lane to complain about it.

Even, even if I didn't like it, but I do like it, I'm not telling people not to complain. So I put out this song, and I'm so grateful that people liked it. Yeah. And so many people were commenting, "I hated the names, and now I like them." And, like, that was, like, most of what people said, was, "I hated them, but now I like them."

You're like- And I'm, like, so grate- so grateful- ... to be a, a spoonful of sugar for people. But also, I had some people comment, "Well, you've, you've adequately chastised me," or, like, "Well, I feel like I've been, like, slapped in the face." You're like, "That wasn't the goal." And I'm like, "No, no, you can complain." Like, everyone should complain if they wanna complain.

I'm pro-agency. I'm pro-you do your thing. But I'm also grateful. Like, I think sometimes people just do what everyone else is doing. Yeah. And if e- if everyone's like, "These names are, are dumb," then most people are just gonna, like, agree with it because they don't wanna be the one person to disagree. Right.

But I, I'm okay being the one person to disagree. Yeah. 'Cause I- Well, and I, I think that's why I say the thing about, like, if we had had social media when those older names- Oh ... were announced, because I feel like because of the echo chamber of social media, it creates this, you know, you may have felt good about the names initially, but then you get on social media and everybody's dogging on them, and you're like, "Was, was I silly to think that?"

So. Was I silly? Totally. Well, any youth that I've talked to, and I've asked quite a few, I'm like, "Do you like them?" And they're like, they're like, "Yes," or they're neutral or whatever. Or some of them say no, but usually they say no because they have, like, a, a mom that hates them or- Mm-hmm ... an older sister who hates them.

But I, I saw some posts too where people were like, "Ah, our daughters are looking at us for our reaction." Totally. So I think- Totally ... think that was, uh, I think that was awesome. And I wanna highlight something that you said in your caption. You talked about the Young Women's program and what it had meant to you.

You mentioned that it was the reason that you had learned to play music, but then you said, "It helped me see that I could bear my testimony in another way besides getting in front of a scary microphone. I was also surprised that my church leaders were so encouraging of my music, of my thoughts and big questions, and even of my doubts.

My leaders have seen me go through some dark years as an adult, and they've loved me every step of the way." I had- young women's leaders when I was young that I honestly, growing up in North Carolina, I was like, "These women are like my best friends." And so that idea of, like, your leaders being your friends and seeing you through hard things really resonated with me.

But I wanted to ask you, in relation to that, you talk about doubts and how your young women's leaders loved you through any doubts that you had. Can you talk to me a little bit, Emily, about your faith journey and how those young women leaders' love mattered long after you were no longer in Young Women?

Yeah, my Young Women's leaders were so strong and encouraging and just, like, classy ladies that really taught us how to be really independent and let us plan our own activities and let us have a voice and taught us, like, how to be good listeners and how to be good leaders, a lot of, like, classes on leadership and a lot of cool activities.

Like, if the boys were hiking Havasupai, we were hiking Havasupai, and we were getting just really, really encouraged. And I've... I'm very privileged to have had such a good experience in Young Women's. But I would go, and I was kind of like an emo-y, goth kid and didn't really have any friends in Young Women's besides the leaders.

I had a few friends, but all of us kind of felt like outcasts, you know? And the Young Women's leaders were always just so encouraging, and they were never like, "You can't wear your, uh, you can't wear your goth makeup to mutual." They were always just like, "Come as you are." And they were just... they really just made that f- laid that foundation of you're always welcome here.

And I remember even talking to one of my Young Women's leaders about, you know, a date I went on with a boy who wasn't LDS, and she didn't, like, lecture me in that moment. She was just like, "Is he nice?" You know? Also, when I was in high school, I was, like, going to my friends' churches, so I was, like, going to the Catholic church, I was going to, like, the, the Protestant church, and I was going to, like, the megachurch down the street.

I was, like, looking at all these other churches. My y- my Young Women leaders were just like, "Cool. Can you... For mutual, we're gonna have an activity where you just tell us about these other churches." Like, they were so encouraging about these little phases I was having as a teenager. So when it got to being an adult, and I was also going through some stuff with my mental health and, like, going through some trauma and deconstructing my religion and then reconstructing my testimony kinda thing, they just wanted to hear about it, and I knew I could talk to them about that, and I knew that they would be encouraging, and they wouldn't lecture me, and they would just, like, be there.

I took a little time away from the church, and I remember I would still go to church sometimes but just, like, to be a, a sour grape. Just, like, sit in the back row and just hate it, you know? But I always loved seeing these women who are now like my peers in Relief Society, my, but my former young women's leaders, and they were always just like still so encouraging.

And anytime I like would bring up something that was bothering me, they would usually just be like, "You'll figure it out," or, "Tell me more about that," just like curious. These women are just amazing. They're so strong and they're so cool, and I think they've just always been my heroes from a young age. I really didn't like...

I'm just one of those people that always kind of struggles feeling like I belong, but my young women's leaders always just help me feel like I belong. And also, being a beehive, being a mimeid, being a laurel, like, "You're hereby called to be the secretary of the laurel class," was like, "Oh, my God." What an honor.

I, I belong. Like, I'm gonna stand and people are gonna raise their hand and like sustain me? Holy cow. Like, or like playing hymns was like such a way I just felt like I belonged. "Every Sunday we're gonna need you to play a song and we're all gonna sing." I was like, "Oh, my gosh, I belong." Like, just these waves of you belong.

Girls camp was like such formative, such spiritual experiences for me to go to camp, like to get away from high school friends and just like go up in the woods without a phone. Without, with, with no one talking or worried about what boy was looking at them and no makeup. Totally. Oh, my gosh, no makeup, no boy.

Like, and I, I didn't really think that stuff mattered to me that much until I was away from it and I was like, "Oh, what a relief." Like, "Oh, now I remember how it is to be just a human." Yeah. And yeah, so great. And those were so formative for me. So when I had my mental health kind of percolate and, uh, things get darker, things get weirder, then I literally would like call back on memories from young women's.

Like I would call back on memories from girls camp and I felt like I could reach out to some of my young women's leaders. I did. I like texted them a few times, like, "Hey, just wanted to say thank you for being so nice," and fully at the time not going to church and like even kind of borderline, I hate to say it, but like hating the church a little bit at the time, but still just really loving my young women's leaders.

My brother, who's like long left the church, but he loves his young men's leaders so much. He's just like so happy to see them, and he'll like, he beams. Like, he called me the other day, he's like, "Guess who I just saw in the grocery store? I saw Brother Tate. Oh, my gosh, I love that guy so much." Or like, he got sick, he was in the hospital last year.

He had a brain tumor, which is crazy. That was so scary. Guess who came to his hospital room? His old Young Men's leaders. Like, it's just, we just love, uh, we were just like... I think because me and my siblings were all so weird, we don't have a lot of friends our age, but we really loved our leaders. Well, but I, I actually think the interesting thing about that is I think a lot of teenagers feel all the same feelings that you just said.

And it may- Yeah ... it may seem like they don't, like there may be the popular kids, but I think a lot of people feel like they got their sense of belonging from the things you've described. They're supportive adults, yeah. Yeah. But I know, and like it makes me just so sad, because I know that some people have had the most rotten experiences in Young Women's.

Right. And I know that, and I've seen it. When I first started coming back to church, I got called to Young Women's. And, man, there is a different ward, but there was a Young Women's leader, and she was telling this girl, I like heard this like kind of a verbal go back and forth thing at the end of the hall.

And she was like, "Well, you have to go home." And this girl's like, "I'm not gonna go home and come back." She's like, "You can't wear leggings in the Lord's church." And I was like, "What? She's being sent home for wearing leggings? Like oh my gosh, like how lucky are we that she showed up?" Like- Right ... but I was like, I like just started coming back to church, and it was like not my ward.

I didn't know her, so I like turned to the lady in my ward. I'm like, "Do you see what's going on?" And she was like, "It's so sad." And she's like, "I think it's... I don't know." And I was like, "Should we go say something?" She's like, "Uh." And like, I, that like haunts me so much. Because I know, I know how beautiful the Young Women's program is.

I know how beautiful these years are. Just magical feelings of belonging that we can have in Young Women's. Like, the women, you and me, we cannot get in the way of that. Like that is so- Right ... sacred. I think a little piece of me feels that way with women complaining about the names. I'm a girl's girl. I think women should just feel however they feel.

But I do think like, "Hey, women, let's, let's make sure, let's make sure we don't interrupt something beautiful that might be happening for these girls." And those weren't the names that we needed, but these are the names they need. Like, this is the name for their time. Right. And the girls that I've talked to really like those names, and the girls also that I talk to think the world, the word Laurel is weird, by the way.

Right, right, right. I think that is so, so well said. I want to shift to a younger age group. Probably, so I just got put in Primary, and it's like very top of mind. Yeah. But you're, are you the Primary pianist? Yes. It's the best. That's lovely. I just, me and my, my Nerds clusters on the piano and we're just...

That's it. That's amazing. Well, I, I listened to another podcast that you were on, General Conference Applied, and you were talking about Sister Tracy Browning's talk from the October 2025 General Conference. And I loved what you said so much, I actually used it in a Relief Society lesson. Oh, my gosh. But in that clip, you talk about how Primary songs literally saved your life.

And I love this phrase, you refer to Primary songs as spiritual food storage. Can you tell me a little bit about kinda how Primary songs, you feel like saved your life and were, were that food storage that you needed? Totally. How good was that talk by Sister Browning? It was so good. Oh, my... Oh, my gosh. I'm sad that she's released.

I love her so much. Awesome. But I'm sure we'll see lots more of her. Yeah, that talk was amazing and, I mean, yeah, I went to church my whole life and I love the Primary songs, and music is, has just kind of had this way of sticking to my ribs, and things just kinda stay with me. And I had some mental health and I was just kind of plummeting.

I had some, just, like, anxiety and depression kind of creeping up. And then we're involved in this violent, traumatic event which really shook us up, and especially shook me up. And I couldn't quite make sense of it. And my testimony was already kind of floundering, and then after that event, it just was kind of like a wrecking ball to anything left I had.

And I w- I had PTSD and so nothing felt safe, no one felt safe. And I was pushing everybody away. I was pushing my friends away, I was pushing my family away, and then I, I was pushing, like, the last little bits of church away, right? And I was trying to push Heavenly Father away, which he's a little hard to push away, turns out.

But I, like, stopped praying because I, I felt like if I wasn't going to church or I wasn't doing everything I should or if I was having doubts, that my prayers wouldn't work or that I shouldn't be praying, like, I'd be wasting Heavenly Father's time or I wouldn't have, like, earned a right to pray, or just kind of, like, weird, not true feelings I had.

But I was talking with this, like, Catholic priest who came my way, and I was basically asking him, like, "When do I get to the point that I can pray again?" And he was like, "Right now. Just pray." And so I felt like I should be praying. And I felt like I wanted to pray and like I had this green light. I guess it's okay to pray.

Like I guess this is fine. And that sounds so silly to say now, but like when you're, when you're going through it, when you're mentally sick, those things that sound so silly to say now, like those really make sense when you're not doing well. So I really wanted to start praying, but I don't, I didn't really know how, but I did know the primary songs.

And so I would just sing the primary songs. And those are my first little steps towards getting myself out of the gutter. My first ways to start inviting the spirit back into my life and to start remembering who I am and start remembering like that it's worth being here, that I can take up some space on earth and I won't be, you know, ruining anybody's life by being here kind of thing.

Just such a daily bread, just little bits every day. And would just sing the primary songs and those would kind of remind me who I am and remind me why I'm here. Music is really like, I think I'm basically socially awkward. And I think I'm basically, I don't feel permission to enter social spaces unless music is kind of a way that opens the door for me to, opens the door for me to like be in primary and have a good time because I don't know who you guys are and I don't know what the scriptures are talking about sometimes, but I know the words to this song.

So that's how music helped me feel, helped me belong when I was a kid. And then we go to young women's and, you know, you guys are hanging out with these other people at school and I know you guys are a little bit cooler than I am, but I can play the piano and that kind of like, now I feel like I belong because now we're singing Sisters in Zion together and now we're at girls camp singing these songs together and now I feel like I belong.

And, and then in church too, it's so hard to wrap my head around the atonement, this incomprehensible love from our savior, but I do know the words to There is a Green Hill Far Away and I can just grasp in a slight way. And so music is always just this kind of a jumping on point for me. And I know other people feel that way that I feel.

People kind of need permission. People need a jumping on point. People need like a springboard. People need a green flag. People need a helping hand. And I think that's what music has been for me through my life. And so I'm really grateful that I've been able to help be a green flag or a springboard or an open door or a helping hand to bring people to either to love church again or to Remember their experiences they had in church even though they don't attend anymore, but like to still think back to times in the cultural hall weddings and, and think back on them fondly without feeling like they have to have that conflict in their life.

And, and then I'm grateful to have created a little jumping-on point for people to reconsider these young women's names and consider the possibility of loving them. I think I speak for a lot of people, Emily, when I say that I think you, uh, you, you mentioned, like, that you might be able to take up space, and I don't follow very many people on Instagram.

I, I find the things that you post to be very worth my time. Yeah. And so I think that you definitely deserve space, and I think a lot of us are grateful for that space that you take up in our social media feed. Oh, thank you. Um, I, I wanted to ask you because I, on some of these other podcasts that you were on, I thought you had some really valuable thoughts about this.

And, and you talked on one of them, you specifically said, you know, "There was a time when I wouldn't say that I was all in." And that's like- Oh ... a big, a big part of this podcast is, I think, well, when we started it, it was like, well, we don't wanna have, like, this self-righteous name that makes it seem like everybody has- Oh

all in or all out. And so that's how- No sinners here. Yeah, that's how we came up with the, the last question, what does it mean to you? Because it was like, well, that could mean a lot of different things- Mm-hmm ... to different people. But I thought that you had some really great thoughts about kind of if you don't feel all in right now.

And so I wondered, what would be your message to others that maybe don't feel like they're all in right now for whatever reason? And then maybe what would be your message to people that love and care about someone who may be struggling with or not interested in faith, and they, they hope that person will come back?

Hmm. I mentioned, like, talking to this Catholic priest before, and I was actually talking to him in a mental hospital in a behavioral health unit and, like, really just, uh, kind of topsy-turvy mentally, and things didn't quite make sense. But when I asked him, like, "When can I start praying again without it being a problem?"

I think I was basically asking, like, "How, how can I prove to God that I'm all in again?" Because I felt all in. Like, I felt this, like, hunger in my soul. I really want this happiness that I used to have. And I, I'm 90% sure it's in the gospel. I'm like 99% sure. There's so many hurdles in my life I kind of have to get past, and what is the penance I need to pay kind of thing.

And one other thing this Catholic priest said was, he said, "There's no scoreboard." Your heart is your heart. And so I think if you ask the question, how will I know if I'm all in, it's just, well, do you want to be all in? Then you're all in. You are all in because you're here on earth, and you're created in God's image, and he loves you.

And so you're all in. There's no like, there's no country club. There's no belonging. There's no... I don't know. I- like, feeling all in is more about, more about just, it's just about you and Heavenly Father. I completely agree with that, and y- the thing about the Catholic priest saying like, there's no scoreboard reminds me, I have a friend who always says in reference to like anyone's faith journey, that there's nothing so irrelevant as the score at halftime.

And- Yeah ... I think that so often we get caught up in like where are we right now, and where is somebody else right now, and it's like another friend of mine always says, "Life is long." And- Mm-hmm ... I just think we worry about ourselves and, and try to be patient with ourselves and with other people and we'll be amazed by how everything works itself out.

Emily, I feel like you've already answered this question. Um, but do you have any other thoughts on what it means to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? There's one of the new hymns that was added, and I, I love all the new hymns. And I love this song. And it goes, "How many drops of blood were spilt for me?"

It's This is the Christ. Yep. I love that song. But that's my one line that I'm like, "Oh, I really wish I could write in the footnotes of this hymn, how many drops of blood were spilt for me." I wanna just say, all of them. All of them were spilt for you. Like 100% of the atonement, every single bit of it was for you.

That's what I feel like it is to be all in on the gospel, is just really this surrender of knowing how loved we are by our creator. It's hard to comprehend such a, a huge, powerful, vast thing. But when we, when we realize that comprehending it just means that we love our neighbor, and comprehending it just means that we will stay on this earth one more day and try our best, then it, it seems a little more comprehensible Emily, thank you so much.

You have shared so many, so many great thoughts, and I appreciate your time and your talent so much Oh, thank you, Morgan. I'm so happy to hang out with you. We are so grateful to Emily Susan Pack for joining us on this week's episode. We are also grateful to Derek Campbell of Mix at Six Studios for his help with this episode, and we're grateful to you for listening.

We'll look forward to being with you again next week