Cameron Smith: Pancakes, a Currant Bush, a Stone and a Sling

Morgan Jones Pearson

When we went to Cameron Smith's home to film a segment for our KSL conference special, we not only got to meet his incredible wife, Rochelle, but he also made us chocolate chip pancakes which made this pregnant woman incredibly happy. Today, Cameron has made many pancakes and I can vouch for the fact that he may have perfected the craft. But when Cameron first pitched Kodiak cakes to Target, he hadn't made many pancakes. To this day, he isn't sure if the Target buyer just took pity on how nervous he was or not. But that day Target agreed to put Kodiak Cakes in 40 stores nationwide. The rest is history. Both sons of Church Education System employees Joel Clark and Cameron Smith joined forces to make Kodiak cakes the brand it is today. Cameron Smith is the co-founder and former president of Kodiak Cakes when he joined Kodiak cakes in 2009, the company had done less than $1 million in retail sales. But last year when he made the decision to take a step back, the company had $500 million in retail sales, and now employs more than 130 people. Originally from Nebraska, Smith is a graduate of the University of Utah. He and his wife, Rochelle, are the parents of four children.

This is All In, an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson. And I am so grateful to have the chance to be in the home of Cameron Smith and I have this chance to talk with him. I'm excited for you to hear our conversation.

Cameron, thank you so much for being willing to do this and sit down with me. My first question I want to go way back. So when you were initially looking for jobs, you had some job opportunities that came up, you said you and your wife prayed about them. And it just didn't feel right. Talk to me a little bit about that, that season of your life.

Cameron Smith

Yeah, no, you know, it's interesting how how God works and how He always has a plan. And I think sometimes we think we know the plan. And I had this opportunity to do a business venture with a guy that I really looked up to. And I was feeling really energized around the opportunity. I remember telling my wife and saying, 'Hey, I want to do this.' And she's like, 'I don't know that that's the right thing to do.' And I'm like, 'No, it feels really good. And I think this is what we should do.' And so we talked about it a lot and prayed about it a lot. And finally one night, I was like, 'Okay, well, let's pray about this.' And in my mind, I was thinking when we pray, then she'll get the answer as confirmation. That's when she'll know that this is the right thing to do. And so we both knelt down by our small kitchen table in our little one bedroom apartment shortly after we were married. And I remember kneeling by the table, and she was like, 'Well, you're gonna be voice.' I was like, 'Okay, I can do it.' And I said, 'Hey, is this what we're supposed to do?' And right there in that moment, was such a clear 'No.' And it almost took me a minute, because I was just so surprised, like, wow, that was really strong. And so I paused and then I finished the prayer. And I remember standing up after and saying to my wife, did you feel that too? And she was like, Yeah, wow. And both of us were like, 'Okay, I guess I've got to turn it down. I guess that's not what we're supposed to do.' And we didn't have a plan B, we didn't have 'Okay, then we'll do this.' And it wasn't revealed even in that moment. Okay, now you'll go and do this. It was just, nope, that's not what is right. And that's not what you're supposed to do. And it was about eight months later, when I met Joel and synched up with him at Kodiak Cakes. And, you know, now 13 years after that, now I can see, 'Okay, I see how that plan unfolded there in the moment.' [Then] I was like, 'Wow, okay. Well, I guess we'll see where this takes us.' Yeah. So then you end up going past this job board at the University of Utah. And you see a listing wasn't exactly the kind of job that you were looking for. What was it about that job listing that led you to reach out to Joel?

I remember thinking in that moment, when I received that really clear no that I guess I'll just keep moving my feet. I guess I'll just look for jobs and apply for jobs and keep reaching out to opportunities and see what sticks. And so through that process of searching for new jobs and interviewing and you know, it's a hard time, it's hard to be in that moment of searching for a job or trying to find out what you're going to do. And I was about to graduate college. And so that pressure of not knowing when you're graduating college, you have to know what you're going to do next in life. And I remember scrolling through various job boards, and I saw Kodiak cakes. And I remember looking at that thinking, Yeah, this looks kind of weird. And I scrolled on and I kept moving on. And then later I saw it again, I just kept scrolling past it. And I swear, I applied to everything around that, except for Kodiak cakes, because I remember looking at the website and thinking, this is a pretty small company. And I don't know about this, and I didn't even know what I wanted to do. And then finally, what felt like almost a little bit of desperation on my side of, 'Okay, I just need to find a job.' And my wife was going to school at the time and she was going to school and she was working. So she was like, you need to you need to get a job like you need to get something going on. And so I applied to the to the job at Kodiak with Joel, and the job post said marketing manager. So part of the reason I also kept scrolling past it is I was just finishing up school, I wasn't a manager, I wasn't at that level yet. And so when I finally did apply, there were certain instructions in the application process where Joel said, you know, include a photo of yourself, which nowadays is not okay, you're not allowed to say include a photo for probably obvious reasons. But I decided to put a photo in there and I put a photo of my wife and I hoping that he would see that, hey, this, this person is pretty responsible. And so I went and met with he and his dad, and it was right by the Salt Lake City Mission. It was a pretty rundown area. And it was pretty sketchy as you're walking in there, the office had no windows. But I remember meeting with he and his dad and his dad had taught Institute somewhere to my dad, and there's just a connection there. I remember walking out thinking, 'This would be so cool. I would love this,' and it was less than a million dollars. So it's not like this thriving business. There's so much energy behind it. It was just, this could be pretty fun. And I think I want to do that. And then, you know, Joel reached out to me a couple of days later and started working together about a week or so after that.

Morgan Jones Pearson

For those that are not familiar with Kodiak cakes and kind of the origin story and how you got looped into it, if you were asked to kind of sum up how Kodiak cakes began, how would you sum that up?

Cameron Smith

So Kodiak began, it was an old family recipe from the Clark family. And Joel's mom, when he was growing up, she would make pancakes out of this pancake recipe from their family where you're like folding in egg whites, you are grinding whole wheat. And she would make it for the family because her dad would make it for them. And when Joel was eight years old, his mom packed into lunch bags and had him go in his red wagon to his neighbors in Salt Lake and sell to his neighbors. And, you know, that was that. And then years later, his older brother John was looking for something to do. And his mom said, Well, hey, you could take that mix and sell it in the grocery stores. And so John was like, okay, yeah, I'll do that. And so he did that. He worked with a good friend to set up the brand. And they started going and for John, it wasn't going as well as I think he hoped it would. It's a hard road. It's hard to grow brands. And so he got to the point that he was like, Alright, I'm done with this and said to Joel, do you want it? And Joel said, Sure, I'll take it. And so Joel was finishing up school at the U, and then ran it for a couple of years and had his dad help him. And then in 2009 is when I synced up with Joel.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So awesome. So going back to that period of time at Kodiak cakes at that point. Kodiak was in some gift shops, I understand, but nothing like what you're experiencing now. So Joel says that you are the secret weapon. And I want to talk about why that is. So initially, you came in and the plan was you were going to reach out to influencers, bloggers, try to get kind of a presence on social media. But you started to have kind of this higher vision for Kodiak and what the company was capable of. Talk to me about why your ability to like see this bigger vision and to not be afraid of failure played into the success of what you all have built?

Cameron Smith

There's a lot there in that question, a lot of various thoughts. When I met up with Joel, the way he first set it up was, 'You know, why don't you start reaching out in some of these gift shops that we had sold to and he set me up with like a commission type pay structure.' And so I think part of me, you know, growing up there, there were seven kids in my family, my dad, like I said, taught Institute and seminary, there wasn't a lot of income there. And so my dad did a lot of odd jobs to try and make a little extra money. And so, for me, when I was set up with this commission structure, I remember thinking, okay, how can I make more money by doing less work potentially. And so what I started doing is, I started to see that if I'm calling these individual gift shops that it's going to take a really long time for us to grow this. And I remember in high school, I grew up in Nebraska, and I worked at Hy-Vee, a retailer there in the Midwest. And I remember thinking, well, if I could call Hy-Vee, their headquarters, then maybe they could bring it into their 200 some odd stores. And so, you know, unbeknownst to Joel, I decided to give Hy-Vee a call. This is like within a year of starting, I don't know a ton about how to do this, I don't know a ton about Hy-Vee and how that works. But I call up the Hy-Vee buyer, they have buyers who are in charge of determining what items are brought into the category. I call the buyer. And usually the buyers never answered their phone. And so you always have to follow up with them. Well, this buyer decides today was going to be the day they're going to pick up the phone. So they pick up the phone and they said this is so and so at Hy-Vee. And I kind of froze in the moment thinking, oh, shoot, hey, we have pancakes here. I wasn't exactly sure what to say. And so I went on and and told him about Kodiak Cakes and what we have the products and he politely said, Yeah, I think we're okay in the category. And it didn't do anything there. But I learned so much from the moment. But I think the biggest part for me of learning wasn't just in that call. But it was in Joel's response. When I told Joel after, his response was, Oh, that's so cool. That's awesome. They said this? And it wasn't, 'Hey, stay in your lane. Don't try and branch out. I told you to do this, just do this.' But like, he allowed me to do whatever. And gave me this. Like a lot of people say like, allow people so much rope to do whatever they need to with it. That was very much Joel. He was very collaborative, very supportive, very empowering. But it's funny to hear like a secret weapon. Because I think in that moment, what I brought was probably like a little stone. That was a stone of like, alright, let's...we can do this. And then together, we built this sling. And then we decided, alright, let's start working on this. And let's see what we can do with this. We broke a handful windows, but then we were like, You know what, maybe we can take on Goliath. Maybe we can do this, and so in a similar way, when you're just feeling empowered, when you feel like you can go after whatever and you start to see that I'm calling these retailers. They're people just like us, too. And while it's intimidating. It doesn't hurt to ask the question. It doesn't hurt to reach out to them. The worst thing they'll say is no. But if you never asked the question, all you'll hear is no anyways.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So you reach out to Hy-Vee. And then after you tell Joe with Joe's blessing, you start reaching out to other companies and you reach out to Target and Target gives you a meeting and Joel was not able to attend the meeting. You had never really pitched Kodiak Cakes to anyone. And then you have a meeting with the buyer at Target. Tell me how that went down.

Cameron Smith

Oh my goodness, I look back at that moment and I'm like, I bet the buyer just had so much sympathy for me. And I was like this poor kid, I was in my mid 20s and call up Target. And the way I would do it is I would call the buyers and I'd say hey, I'm going to be in this area these days and these days, if you have availability? And the Target buyer said, Yeah, sure. I'll be around here. So I remember thinking holy cow, this is this is Target. They're nationwide, they have 1700 stores. Okay, this is kind of a big deal. And like you said, Joel wasn't able to go and so I actually took my wife and I said, Hey, it's around our anniversary. We've been married for a couple of years. And I was like, let's go to Minneapolis in the middle of November for our anniversary so I can go meet with Target. It's really cold like Minneapolis is in the winter. And we had a lot of fun and I remember that morning when I was going to meet with the buyer. I had a suitcase and I had a skillet in it because we would always cook pancakes for the buyers. Had a skillet in there, I had a bowl, I had pancake mix, I have forks, I had plates, I had napkins, I had everything for a little breakfast picnic with the buyer essentially is what I was going to be doing. And so I walked into the office and met with a buyer and it was a small room, like a four person conference room, I pull out my skillet, and I pour out my mix and my water and I'm making the pancake mix, and I'm talking to the buyer about it. And then I proceed to make pancakes for the buyer. So it was very similar to one of the jobs that my dad did growing up with selling vacuums—it was very similar to that, putting some dirt on the ground and vacuum it up to show how well it works. And so that's what I did with the with the pancake mix. And I'm sure the buyer saw me fumbling through what I was saying, saw me being nervous and had compassion. And I remember after she said, Yeah, you know, this could be interesting, we'll get back to you. So I had no idea how well it went. I had no idea if I totally bombed it. I had no idea in the moment if the buyer loved it. And about a month or so later, she reached out and said, Hey, we're going to be bringing in into 40 stores throughout the US. And I remember thinking, Okay, this is awesome. But it's also nerve wracking because this is their test. They're testing it in 40 stores to see if it works. And if it works, then they're going to scale it. So I remember when they brought it into those 40 stores, Joel and I were like, how can we ramp this up? How can we get more people hearing about it? Because it wasn't just the 40 Utah stores. There were some in Virginia, there were some in Texas, there were some in California that spread throughout the whole U.S. And so we started trying a lot of different things to just drive awareness and drive trial. But going to that Target meeting, it was something else, it was a good learning experience.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I love that story so much. And I think the reason that I love it is you just kind of shot your shot. And I think there's so much power in that. Why do you think that you were able to have that greater vision and see the potential of what Kodiak cakes might be able to become? And now looking back, how can you see that vision was not in vain?

Cameron Smith

Mm. Yeah, the first few years with Joel, I wouldn't say that we were hyper-focused on turning Kodiak into a big company. We were pretty distracted by a lot of let's start this business or let's do this. I wasn't even sure that Kodiak was going to work out. Joel had been doing it for almost 15 years before before I joined it, whether it was his brother, whether it was his dad or him. And so in my mind, the pancake category was hard to break through. We didn't really have this product that was taking off, it was doing well, but but it wasn't setting the world on fire. But as a result, we were trying a lot of things. So we tried putting our pancake mix into a cup and cooking it in the microwave. That ended up working but it was a little before its time and so it didn't work with retailers. One morning Joel came in the office and he said, Hey, do you ever put protein in your pancake mix? I was like, No, I don't. And he was like, well, we've been putting protein in our pancake mix, it works out really well. And so we started looking up trends to see like, is protein something that could make a lot of sense. And so then we formulated power cakes. And that item really started taking off and today that's probably mostly what Kodiak is known for is the high protein, a whole grain products. But once we started doing that, I think that's when we started to see, we might be onto something here. Because shortly after launching that at Target, it became the number one selling pancake mix in Target stores nationwide. And so for us, we're like, hey, this could actually this could be something. But we didn't want to stop there, we started to see, you know, I think there could be other parts of the grocery store where we could innovate with this type of product with whole grains higher protein. So we went after frozen waffles. And the number of people that told us we should not do that, there were a lot of people but we just saw that there was a huge category that was dominated by the leader and that leader had, you know, almost an 80% share of all the dollars in that category. And so we saw that as a this could be a huge opportunity to bring consumers back to a category and give moms and dads have reason to feel energized by what they're feeding to their kids. And so we started working in pancakes and that started working then then we saw frozen waffles and then we started look out and see, wait a second, maybe there could be more to this. And then we brought on a private equity investor partner in 2016. And when they joined, they said, guys, this brand is a big deal. And I remember Joel and I, we were around 30 million in revenue. I remember we were thinking, is it though? And they're like, No, guys, this is a billion dollar brand. And Joel and I in the moment were like, I think they're crazy, but I mean, if they believe it, then okay, we have someone who believes in us. And it's amazing what happens to you when someone starts to believe in you. Because you can take that belief that you have in yourself. And that belief that someone has in you just builds onto it. And if you don't have the foundation of belief in yourself, then you're just going off of that borrowed belief in you from other people. But when you have that belief in yourself, and I believe Joel, and I believed, I think we can do it. There's other brands and have grown, I think we can figure it out, we can learn. Then when someone comes in and says no, guys, you're onto something. Let's go like, okay, yeah, let's do it. Now we've got a partner, a financial partner, who is going to help us in that path. And that's when we really started to just catapult what we could do the categories we could go into. And we started to be a little more aggressive. Whereas before, I think we're a little timid, because we believed in it, but we weren't ready to really run after it. So once they came in for me, I was like, This is awesome. Let's go, let's do this. And you know, Joel had been doing it for a while. And so for me, I'm like, Hey, let's go, we're gonna build this, and we're gonna do X, Y, and Z. And we were so fortunate that it worked—that it was great for consumers, they loved the product, they felt like they were attached to the brand, it worked for retailers, it was growing their categories, it worked in so many areas, that it's just amazing to see where it went. I would have never said those first handful of years, 'I think we're going to grow to a couple 100 million like that would have been crazy' But to see it now it's like, wow, this is crazy, and that we were a part of it.

Morgan Jones Pearson

You had a little bit of a unique experience, Cameron, and I think it would have been prior to the private equity investor coming on when you went on Shark Tank, is that right? So you decided to go on Shark Tank, you made an interesting choice, when you were on the show to not take any of the sharks' offers. Obviously, that carries with it kind of a greater risk of we might never make it on TV. But your pitch did end up making it on TV. And in fact, you said that after that episode aired, you saw Kodiak Cakes get a giant lift, and every time it reruns, you can kind of see a little spike. So talk to me about the decision to go on Shark Tank and what that experience was like for you and Joel.

Cameron Smith

Yeah so and this tied into Target, because the Target buyer said to us, I remember meeting with him. And this is when the buyers had changed. And so we went from the the lady that we were working with and this guy came in and he met with us and he said, Okay, guys, could you support the business if I expanded you into over 1000 stores? And I remember Joel and I in that meeting, thinking, holy cow, like we didn't say anything. But I could feel like between us like, is this is this real life right now? Is that really what he's thinking? Holy cow. And so in the moment, we're like, yeah, no, we could do that. And he ended up extending us into 1600 stores. And so after that, we were tracking the item to see how well it was doing how well it was selling each week. And I went and met with the buyer. And he was like, hey, it's doing really well. But what would it take to do four times as well as it's doing right now? And I remember thinking, okay, yeah, we'll figure it out. And I had no idea. So I called Joel up right after and I was like, okay, it was a great meeting. He wants us to do four times. And Joel was like, I don't have the budget for that, you know, we don't have the funding to do a national ad campaign to drive awareness and trial. And so we started brainstorming, alright, what can we do? What scrappy things can we do? We came up with a lot of YouTube videos that were not very good. We were trying.

Morgan Jones Pearson

That was pre-Zac Efron.

Cameron Smith

That was pre-Zac Efron. And I found that that was before we had an actual celebrity that knew what they were doing. And I remember, Joel and I were talking one time and my wife and I had watched Shark Tank frequently. And so, Joel and I started talking to him like, hey, what if we went on Shark Tank? And he's like, what's that? It's a show that they have investors and, you know, 8 million people watch it. He's like, Wow, that could be really cool. And so I was like, I want to reach out. He's like, Yeah, sure, go for it. So I reached out, just sent an email online, and I didn't hear anything back. And then randomly one night, I get this phone call and it says California on my caller ID and I'm like who is this, I answer, and they say, Hey, we're producers from Shark Tank, we want to talk to you about Kodiak Cakes. And I remember thinking, holy cow, is this for real? And Joel and I are supposed to go out of town, so we weren't gonna go in the office, and they send us the paperwork to fill out. And so we filled out all the paperwork, we did a quick video shoot, and sent that in. And they accepted, put us with producers, we started working with them, and then went on Shark Tank. And I remember when we were going on Shark Tank, Joel and I, we wanted to do everything we could to prepare. So he had a friend that was in PR. So we went in met with his friend and did like a mock Shark Tank experience. So we walked in, we stood in front of their friends, they asked us questions like, we tried to do all that to simulate what it was going to be like when we actually went on the show. The funny thing is, you can't fully simulate what that experience is going to be like. But we were so fortunate because we took time to know the information on the business and to really just question each other along the way. So when we got in front of the sharks, they were really respectful. They grilled us with a lot of questions, but it was a positive experience. And we were probably in there about 45 minutes, and they cut it all the way down to, you know, what you see on TV, so about eight or 10 minutes. And I remember thinking when they gave us some offers, you know, in the moment, Joel was like, Okay good, I didn't know for sure if we wanted a deal or not. And so he started to kind of close up like, alright, well, thank you for let us come here. And I remember like saying like, Hey, should should we should we counter? He's like, Oh, yeah. And and so we countered, and they didn't air our counter, and it didn't go anywhere. And we ended up walking off. And when we walked off, because we didn't know if it was actually going to air or not walking off felt really risky. It felt really, what if they don't air it? What if it doesn't go on there. Well, we got to do what's best for the business. And we didn't hear anything until like, last week in March in 2014. We get a email that says, hey, we're going to be running your episode next week. So this is like one of the last episodes of the seasons, we were like, we're gonna get on the show. This is so great. Like it's gonna be airing next week. And we're like, we got to scramble to try and make sure everything's ready, we got to tell Target, we got to make sure that our website is ready so it doesn't crash. When it aired on the East Coast, our website crashed. The Target was calling us on Monday saying Guys, we're out of products. But at that time Target was going to bring in power cakes and pull out another one of our items. After Shark Tank because it has such a good effect, they kept that in. And so they actually ended up keeping three pancake items on the shelf instead of two, which just gave us more shelf space to help drive some of that, even just in the moment awareness. But Shark Tank, it was so huge for Kodiak because we needed awareness, we needed people to hear about the brand. And then they've continued to air it so whenever people see it. They're like, Oh, yeah, I saw that on Shark Tank. And people don't often think about an emotional attachment to a food brand. Food often fills functional, like I eat food because I'm hungry, or I eat food because I need more protein or whatever it is. And so what we wanted to create at Kodiak is we wanted to create an emotional attachment to the brand where we're connecting with you in various moments. Shark Tank actually became a part of that. But then we would do races and events to interact with people in those moments so that when they're in that moment, they would think back. Oh, Kodiak was a part of that. If they're eating pancakes at home, they remember I remember that race I did, or I remember this moment and whatever that is, but Shark Tank was, it was it was a big thing for the brand.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So one thing when I reached out to you, Cameron, and I asked for, you know, your thoughts as it relates to building this business and the things that you've experienced and how the gospel has played into that. One of the things that you said was that there have been times where you struggled and wondered if God was aware of you. How have you seen God's hand throughout this experience and recognize his awareness of you in those times when you've struggled?

Cameron Smith

Yeah, it's something I've thought a lot about. I mean, I've even even throughout this experience, I've thought, in my mind is a little more of an analytical mind. And so I've thought, hey, what's the purpose and what is God preparing me for? And how is this part of his plan? Because I feel like any, whether it's this temporal success that we might have I have here, whatever that looks like, I don't know that that's really the the purpose of why we're here and what we're trying to do. And so, throughout this experience, I've thought, what is that purpose? What am I supposed to be doing in these moments? And, you know, a little bit ago, I just had these feelings that I need to be growing, I need to be learning and I need to continue to develop myself as as a leader. And when I felt like it was for a very distinct purpose, I felt like I was going to be developing myself as a leader for this clear purpose. And I started going down that path, I felt really good about it. I, I had a leadership coach, and was feeling great about those moments and what I was learning. And I felt like, okay, there's an opportunity in front of me, I know what I'm doing, this feels really good. And then it felt like, in that moment that it got pulled out from underneath me. And it felt like that opportunity that I was sure I was preparing for and working towards and growing for, that was what I was supposed to be doing. And it didn't happen. And I remember thinking in the moment, like, this is really hard. And I had a lot of feelings of, you know, pain, sadness, discouragement, disappointment. And I remember saying a prayer and saying, Man, Heavenly Father, this, this is hard. This is like, what's one of am I? What am I supposed to do? And I just, you know, to kind of express like, how hard this was. And I heard so clearly in that moment. 'I know. And I know you, and I love you.' And for me, I was thinking, okay, and then, and then there were some other things that I heard that I was like, okay, I'm good. And then my mind was taken to the story by by President Hugh Brown that I absolutely love and, you know, times when you hear a story in conference, or from one of leaders of the church, and you're like, Man, what a cool story. And it becomes very different when you actually live through the story. But he talks about a currant bush, and he talks about how he had bought this farm, and there was this currant bush that have grown a lot bigger than what it was supposed to actually do. And so one day, he took out some shears and, and really cut it down. And he said, in the moment, he saw that the currant bush almost looked like it had tears like it was crying and, and he said, I almost stopped here in my mind, the currant bush saying, 'How could you do this to me, I was growing so well. And you cut me down.' Then he said to the currant bush in that moment, like, Hey, I'm the gardener here. I know what I want you to be and then he recounted a story when he was up for a promotion, and it didn't happen and how he was frustrated with God in that moment. And as I thought about that moment, for me, I was reminded that I'm not the gardener. And I thought I knew what I was supposed to be because I felt like, this is what I'm supposed to be growing for this is I'm preparing for this. So when it didn't happen. I was like, Heavenly Father, I thought this is what I was preparing for. And then that reminder of, I'm still preparing you. But you might not know what yet similar to when I had that no of doing that business venture years ago. And in that moment, I wasn't frustrated. I was like, Okay, sounds good. And this one felt a lot different. But now I can look back and say, Okay, if He knew then what His plan was, I know He knows now. I have to trust him. And I have to be okay with that. Which can be hard. Because oftentimes, we want to control everything that we want to control and feel like we need to, but it's just really interesting. Like I said, when you hear one of those stories, and I remember hearing that currant Bush story, years ago, thinking, Man, what a cool story. That's so awesome. And then when I went through it, and I'm like, oh, man, that's hard. I can feel what that currant bush was feeling. But then I also look for and I'm like, okay, God's aware of me. He loves me and he knows me. So I am sure he has something better than I can even possibly imagine if I just stay on the path of learning, of growing. It's not a one time thing, it's a constant path that we stay on so that was very a clear moment. There's been other moments but that was really a clear moment where I realized that even more so that He knows me better than I know myself.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I love that story. So much And the currant Bush, I think all of us have had those moments where we realize that we're not the gardener. So thank you for sharing that. Recently, you and Joel made an interesting decision to kind of take a step back. And you said that this was big for you in terms of kind of looking at priorities and what you wanted to do with your life moving forward. So talk to me about that decision to step back.

Cameron Smith

Yeah, you know, it's never easy to step away from something that, in a lot of ways has kind of defined you. You know, as Kodiak grew over the years, Joe, and I never felt like 'We're the CEO and president and what we say goes.' We've always felt like, we're learning too, and, and we don't know what to do in a lot of areas. And there were times with the team where I would say, hey, let's focus in this area, and they start focusing on that, and I'm like, actually, nevermind, we're going to change, we're not gonna do that anymore. We're gonna do something over here. And they were really patient, but I'm sure there were times for the team where they were thinking, and these guys do not know what they're doing. They're nice guys, but they do not know what they're doing. And for me, you know, throughout the growth, I remember, like, I love the story of Amman, in the scriptures and not even just, you know, the, the violent story that we all love of him cutting the arms off and whatnot. But I love the moment when he's reconnected with his brothers. And he says, look at what we've done. This has been so cool, like, we've helped them come to Christ. We've taught them about this and Aaron's like, Hey Ammon, and you're slowing down, you're kind of boasting like, this isn't okay. And Ammon's cycle, not in my own strength, because as to my own strength, I'm nothing but with God's strength, I can do all things because it's Him. And so this isn't me. And so I've looked at this, even this journey from Kodiak thinking, This isn't me, this has been God, this has been Him saying, hey, you need to learn in this area so you can be a better leader. Because if I can be a better leader, I can hopefully help inspire other people's lives to see that there's a lot more to life than earning a paycheck or building a brand, but maybe it can help impact their families. Maybe there can be a positive repercussion. I remember, I was listening to this podcast, and they were just talking about the the ripple effect of impact that you can have as you lead an organization. And they had this guy call in from somewhere in the Midwest, and he said, Well, I run an H-Vac company. I don't impact that many people's lives. I have five employees. And they said, Well hold up a second, those five employees all have families, so you're probably impacting close to 100 people's lives. In the moment, the H-Vac person was like, wow, I guess that's true. And I thought about that. And at that time, Kodiak, we had around 100 people, and I thought, holy cow, 100 people that could be like 1000 lives, oh, shoot, I need to learn more, I need to grow more. And throughout all these thoughts, and Joel and I have talked a lot about where the business is at and where the business is going. And the brand really is in a place where it could actually grow to a billion dollars. And we feel pretty, really strong about that. And when you're swimming, and you're trying to swim as fast as you can just to stay stay ahead of the wave that's coming. You start to see that you're no longer as far ahead of the wave as you were before. And now the wave is really close to us and we're trying to stay ahead of it, and you start getting sucked up in the wave. So Joel, and I saw this as you know what I think this is the time to bring in someone who they're further ahead on the wave, or they know how to ride that wave, we're on little boogie boards, and they'll just bring a surfboard in and they may know what they're doing. And so almost a year ago, we started a search to find someone and it took us a while, it took us a while to find the right person because, you know, we care about growing the business we care about, you know, a brand that will stand the test of time. But moreso than that is we care about the people that are there, they've impacted our lives and it's been so positive for us and we've hoped that it was able to be positive for them too. And so we didn't want to just plug someone in and say let's just put someone in there and then we'll sail off in the sunset. We wanted to make sure that we were intentional about it, that we found someone who could carry this forward and we are fortunate to find a lady that has really good experience, really good approach and and be able to hand it off to her which felt really good for us. And so now, you know we're in this phase of what do we want to do? You know, we're fortunate because I know this isn't normal. And this doesn't often happen. And so for me, as I continue to look to God, it's what do you want me to learn now? Where's my next piece of development? And what are you setting up for me as I continue to grow, because I know that all of these experiences are for our good, and give us experience to prepare us to be who He knows we can be. And I don't know who that is yet. But one of the things that I've loved about some of these leadership developments is one of our most favorite quotes is leadership is the ability to see the worth and potential in others so clearly that they start to see it for themselves. And I've loved that. And I thought about that with the team, I thought about the family. But I've also thought about that with our Heavenly Father. He knows our worth, and He knows our potential. So if we want to understand our potential, and if we want to tap our full potential, He's the best person to ask because he knows who we can become. And so for me as I go through this shift in what, what my purpose is now, what is my identity? It's just bringing me back to Okay, Heavenly Father, where do I need to focus? And how can I improve, because I know that there's more out there for me to do and more out there for me to become?

Morgan Jones Pearson

That's so well said. And I love that that quote, and that thought about Heavenly Father is the same way. He's the best leader. My last question for you, Cameron, is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Cameron Smith

You know, I've listened to the podcast, and I thought a lot about that question. And I think at times, you know, that, what it means to be all in can feel, it can feel daunting, or it can feel like, yeah, because I was all in, that's why I was fortunate because I don't think that's necessarily the case. One of my most favorite songs, I'll call it a hymn, it's in the children's songbook is "I'm trying to be like Jesus." And what I love about it is the emphasis on trying, and then who you're trying to be like, and so that focus on, I'm trying, and every day, I'm going to try to love as He love, I'm going to try to be like Him, I'm going to try to understand how He thought. I'm going to try and I think to be all in means you're trying. Even He knows that we're going to stumble, He knows that. We'll have those moments that that don't go as well. But as we're trying to be like Jesus, we'll continue to go back to Him, we'll continue to go to Him in prayer, we'll continue to go to Him as we repent, we'll continue to go back to him as we work to align our life to to Him. And so I think to be all in the gospel means to try. God loves to see effort. He loves to see that we're going to try and we're going to do everything that we can to be there. And so I think being all in I think it's about trying, I think it's about showing effort. I love that.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Cameron, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure to talk with you and hear more about your story and I appreciate it.

Cameron Smith

Definitely great to chat.

Morgan Jones Pearson

We are so grateful to Cameron Smith for joining us on this week's show. Big thanks to KSL for their help with this episode, and to Derek Campbell for his help in the post production. We'll look forward to being with you again next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai