Chris Schoebinger: The Heroes in Our Stories

Morgan Jones Pearson

Chris Schoebinger's story, much like the stories he's worked to publish as the national publishing director for Shadow Mountain, has twists and turns, challenges he never expected, and blessings he never saw coming. He and his family were recently featured on CBS's On The Road with Steve Hartman sharing just one part of their incredible story. Today, we'll let Chris tell you more about a story that isn't a children's fantasy novel like those that Shadow Mountain has published. Instead, it is the story of his life. Chris Schoebinger has nearly 35 years experience in the publishing industry. He discovered award-winning and New York Times bestselling authors such as Brandon Mull, Jason F. Wright and Ally Condie. Additionally, he has worked with developing many best selling authors including James Dashner, Lisa Mangum and Cameron Wright. And has worked to publish everything from the biographies of John Stockton and Bill Marriott to Ann Romney's cookbook. This is All In, an LDS Living podcast ,where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson, and I am honored to have Chris Schoebinger on the line with me today, Chris, welcome.

This is all in an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Morgan Pearson. And I am so honored to have Chris show being on the line with me today, Chris, welcome.

Chris Schoebinger

Thank you, Morgan. It's a delight to be here. I'm excited.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Chris, you are a delightful person. And I feel like people should know that upfront, I have had the chance to work around Chris not super closely, but around you for years now. And I've always been so impressed by the way that you carry yourself. And I've never heard anybody say anything other than just that they love you as a person. So thank you so much for your example of that. We're gonna talk today quite a bit about some different aspects of your life. You have a really interesting job at Deseret book and specifically with Shadow Mountain Publishing. But I wanted to start with you are actually a convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Tell me a little bit about how you found the gospel.

Chris Schoebinger

Yeah, so I grew up in Southern California. And it was my senior year in high school, I was having a rough patch at home and I needed a place to live. And my best friend Brian said that I could live with his family. And I didn't know at the time that the Williamson's were members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. But their light was undeniable. And you can say, they were all in the way they welcomed me into their home. And I remember they invited me to kneel with them each night as they prayed together as a family, which was very foreign to me at the time. And when I graduated and went to college, my roommate was all in in helping me as a new freshman. And he was, you know, just had this light. And I learned soon after that, he was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and this kind of thing kept happening and putting people into my life that were all in as far as sharing the light.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So how old were you, Chris, when you went to live with that family?

Chris Schoebinger

I was, it was my senior year. So I was 16/17.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Yeah, okay. Okay. And then,

Did you go to church with them at all?

While Yeah, being there? Yeah.

Chris Schoebinger

They invited me to church.

And, of course, it was a little more detailed than that. But it was the beginning of my eyes beginning to open to this restored gospel. And the more I learned, the more truth seemed to seep into my heart and soul and, and I just wanted to learn more.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So Chris, I am curious, I heard just recently that your mother...so I think it's interesting, we've noted you were having a rough time at home, ended up going and living with another family, but not too long ago, your mother got baptized? Can you tell me a little bit about that?

Chris Schoebinger

Yes. So, yeah, through the years after I joined the church, you know, I went on a mission when I was 20 years old. And when I returned home, I was just excited to share the gospel. And, you know, I tried sharing the gospel many times with all different parts of my family, and no one seemed to be interested. And my mom was really the only person that said, Chris, if it makes you happy, then I'm happy, when I joined the church. And so I remember one evening, we had the missionaries over for dinner. And I remember, an Elder Thomas from Nottingham, England, shared his testimony of the First Vision. And the Spirit flooded the room and said, Chris, it's time to invite your mom again.

Now, it's been 31 years, right? It since I was baptized, like I had shared this message of the restored gospel several times with my mom at least tried to start it through the years, but nothing seemed to be happening. So anyway, to make a long story short, 31 years after I was baptized, God said it was time. And I knew my mom was coming out to Utah on Thanksgiving in a few weeks. And I had this prompting, and it was like, Chris, you should invite the missionaries soon. And so I said, Okay, so I called the missionaries. But I didn't feel right about dropping this on my mom when she came to excuse me. So I decided I called my mom and said something like, So mom, you know, how your grandson is preparing for a mission? And she said, Yes. And I said, Well, I want him to see the missionaries in action, you know, so he can get a sense of what it's like. I'm not sure if my mom was buying this completely, but I was gonna go for it so I said, I was wondering if you'd be willing to help out? You know, Stephen could watch them teach you. And then you could ask any question you want. And I said, So Stephen could just see a real q&a in action, no big deal. And she said, Okay, I can help. And I was thinking, you know, wow, Heavenly Father, this is kind of working.

So long story short, a few weeks later, my mom returned, and the full time missionaries showed up, and it was Elder Thomas, the same missionary from England. And I have to say, my mom is a sucker for a good British accent. And also an Elder Estrada from the Philippines was there and of course, my son Steven was ready to observe. And in fact, our whole family was in the family room. And the spirit was so strong while the elders were teaching, and I thought, Great, mission accomplished. And then from out of the blue, Elder Estrada, I think he'd been out for maybe a couple of weeks, asked my mom, "So now that you've heard our message, will you be baptized?" And I'm pretty sure I stopped breathing. It was dead silent. This was not part of my plan. This was not how the story was supposed to go. I was like, elder, what were you thinking? And then my Mom replied, "After all the lessons, if I'm feeling the way I'm feeling now, then yes, I will be baptized." And my chair might have fallen over. And true to her word. A few months later, we flew out to Oklahoma for her baptism. And she turns 80 next year, and she loves her ward and her ward family. And God is good at what He does.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Now, I have chills, thank you so much for sharing that, Chris. So fast forward from the time I guess, we're going back but from the time you were baptized, you ended up getting married, and you and your wife are ready to have children. And you ended up actually adopting your first child. Tell me a little bit about how you came to the decision to adopt and the way that that has impacted your life.

Chris Schoebinger

Oh, boy. Yeah, that's a huge part of our story. And it's just another way that God has helped our family write our story is when my wife and I were struggling to have children. And after five years, we both had the impression that we should adopt right? We've been both in praying and trying to find out what's the next chapter of our lives and to make a long story short, nine months later, we were chosen to be adoptive parents, and I remember someone asking me the definition of a hero. And I said, unequivocally a birth mother, because no one. And I mean, no one sacrifices more and it feels like a different lifetime now, but we knew that we always wanted our son to know that his birth mother loved him. And so when our son was about 8 years old, we had the prompting that we really wanted our son's birth family in his life. And so long story short, we contacted the agency, the adoptive agency, who contacted the birth mother, Shauna, and we were able to meet with her and her family, which turned out to be one of the best decisions we could have ever made. And I, I know it's different for everyone but the way we see it, you can't have too many people in your life that truly love you. And Shauna and her family attended all the milestones of Stephen's life story, right? His sporting events, his graduation, his mission farewell and homecoming, his marriage, his graduation from college, and then just a couple of weeks ago, the birth of our first grandchild. And when they say our, I mean, she's just as much as a grandma to this baby boy, as the other two sets of grandparents, right? At least that's how we see it. And that's how Steven sees it. And it's been joyous. And to put some frosting on the cake. When Shauna had Steven, in those few days that she was able to hold him before the adoption agency brought us this beautiful baby boy, she named him Riley. And it was just something she wanted to do to have a connection with him. And she told us this, you know, and so when we were able to write letters back and forth to her, we would include Riley, and how he was doing because this was a close adoption, so we didn't know each other's names at the time. And so the beautiful part about all of this is when Stephen and Kayla had their baby boy, just a couple of weeks ago, Stephen said, "We're going to name him Riley." And it just felt like this full circle had been complete. And, boy, again, I just think of how how God orchestrates things so perfectly. And how we can be a part of that, as we try to listen to Him through through humble prayer.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I love that example. I often think about what an incredible sacrifice that is, I was just teaching my seminary kids on Monday and the topic of adoption came up. And we talked a little bit about the sacrifice that a birth mother makes in that instance, and I love that you and your family made space, like you said, I recognize that all situations are different and varied and there are complexities. But I love that in your situation, it worked out that you were able to give her that opportunity to be a part of your son's life.

Chris Schoebinger

Yeah, it's funny, she tells us all the time how blessed she feels for us allowing her into Stephens life. And I keep telling her Shauna, it was you who blessed us first. And anything that comes after that is is a result of your pure love, that charity that you showed at the beginning.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So well said thank you. I wondered if you could tell us how you ended up at Deseret book and ultimately Shadow Mountain and maybe in that you can explain a little bit about what Shadow Mountain is and does.

Chris Schoebinger

Yeah, so that story. That story begins like 35 years ago, which is actually my anniversary at Deseret Book Company as of this month.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Congratulations.

Chris Schoebinger

Thank you. Yeah, it's remarkable. But in a nutshell, while while attending college, I worked part time as a sales associate for Deseret Bookstore. And when I graduated there, there was an opening for a copywriter at the Deseret Corporate office. And funny story while I was still in college working at Deseret Book as a bookseller, I would send marketing ideas to the Deseret Book marketing VP. So by the time I interviewed for the marketing job, they had a file on me. Oh, you're the guy that keeps sending us these ideas. And so, anyway, to make a long story short, I was hired I, through the years, I eventually was promoted as the director of marketing. And soon after, Sheri Dew who started the Shadow Mountain imprint inviting me to join the publishing team. I should probably clarify that the Shadow Mountain imprint specifically publishes for the national market. In other words, publish beyond LDS borders, right with a mission to provide content that offers light and truth and that can be through nonfiction or fiction. And we've done that quite successfully with our children's fantasy novels, our Fablehaven and Dragonwatch series by Brandon Mull international bestsellers in more than 30 languages and have sold millions of copies.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well, and I think some people may look at this, and they may say, Hmm, interesting that a church-owned publishing company would choose to publish children's fantasy novels. And I wondered, how would you answer that question and perhaps prescribing an answer, what is it about fictional storytelling that allows gospel principles to be taught in a unique way?

Chris Schoebinger

Yeah. Oh, that's such a good question. And it's true, we've had some ask, why a Church-owned publisher is publishing books about dragons and fairies. But when you read these novels, I think that question answers itself because what, for example, Brandon Mull does so brilliantly is how he weaves in gospel principles, that light and truth into his stories. So suddenly, and seamlessly, and the fact is we sell more of our product to readers that are not members of the Church than those that are. And so I think that, that anyone...light cleaves into light and readers can feel that light and they're drawn toward it, and they're learning things about truth that maybe they wouldn't learn in reading something else. So I think novels play, play an incredibly important role in maybe breaking through some shells.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Absolutely. You know, I think about books that my mom read, my parents read to me when I was young and just important principles, whether it was like Johnny Tremain talking about "pride cometh before a fall," or the Chronicles of Narnia, and all the lessons that we learn about God and His love and the Savior through those books. And it really is incredible, the the lessons that can be taught through fictional writing,

Chris Schoebinger

I'm always looking for characters that show empathy, right? I love those types of characters that not only show empathy, but have the courage to act on it, to lift and rescue others. Those are some of my favorite stories. And, again, when you read these kinds of novels that we publish, you'll immediately identify those characters.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I felt like I should clarify that Shadow Mountain not only publishes fiction, but also other more secular type works. And so for example, you publish some cookbooks and other things that appeal to a more secular audience, not exactly as Latter-day Saints centric. So what does it mean to you? Or what has it been like to be able to watch the way secular work allows members of our church to be a light to others?

Chris Schoebinger

Yeah, boy, that is the key. You know, it goes back to what our core themes are—themes that inspire greatness and strengthen families and promote virtue and build faith and champion liberty and motivate service. Those are the six areas that we try to find in the submissions that come to our slush pile, and and so it is not just the content that I think provides that light. But I think we provide a special group of authors that also have that light. And not all our authors are our members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we have authors that are like-minded believers that have submitted to Shadow Mountain. And I often will always say to an agent or an author, when I know they're not a member of the Church, I say just so you know who our parent company is—The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and 9 out of 10 times they say, yep, we know we've done our homework, and that's why we're pitching to you. Our values are your values. And I love hearing that, I love that we've created this reputation, that again goes beyond LDS borders, that we can share light, no matter what our religious affiliation is. And so I think that's key to who Shadow Mountain is. But one instance as far as authors, and I'm gonna go back to Brandon Mull for a minute because he is unabashed when asked about his faith. And one story in particular that I will never forget, is when this young girl who came to one of the author signings back east where Brandon was signing books, I think it was at a Barnes and Noble. But it was a long line. And Brandon always takes the time to greet and meet each fan. And I remember timidly, this young girl comes up and asks, in almost this whisper, are you a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? And Brandon leaned forward and whispered back, "Yes, I am, are you?" And she said, "Yes, I am. And I really hoped you were too. And I wrote a song about you." And after some brief laughter from those close by, that's when this girl's mother leaned in and said that the girl's father makes it hard for her to stay active in the Church. But she comes faithfully, and she was so excited to meet Brandon. And I see our authors as more than just authors. I see them as ambassadors. I see them as emissaries of light and truth and goodness.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So well said, Chris, I love that story. And I also love what you highlighted about other like-minded believers who share the same values and believe many of the same things that we do. That's been one of my favorite things about hosting this podcast is that occasionally we'll get an email, there was a lady that listens to this podcast in Canada, that attends a different church. And she said, I listen every week. And so to me, if we can create that common ground and recognize the aspects in which we are the same, rather than different, I think that's powerful in the world that we live in, especially. And then also the idea that you don't have to be a missionary, you don't have to be an ecclesiastical leader. In order for you the work that you do to be a light to other people, you can use the unique talents in Brandon's case, you know, what an incredible talent for creating, I believe he calls it like world building. What does he call his creation? Do you know what I'm talking about?

Chris Schoebinger

Yeah, I know, for sure. For sure. His world-building is by far the thing that people talk about the most. And I mean, it's a way to just escape into these fantasy worlds, but worlds that still have rules and laws. And again, no one teaches choice and consequence better than I think Brandon Mull in some of his novels. And I think that's why parents love his novels.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Chris, another thing that I think is really interesting is that years ago, you had the opportunity to work on a book that at the time was kind of revolutionary for Deseret Book. It was unlike anything that Deseret Book had published up to that point. And that was the book, "In Quiet Desperation," which is written by Ty Mansfield. Tell me a bit about how that book came to be and how working on that book changed your life.

Chris Schoebinger

Yeah, wow. "In Quiet Desperation," was published almost 20 years ago now and the subtitle for that book is "Understanding the Challenge of Same Gender Attraction." And I want to say first and foremost that there are many wonderful books about the Atonement of Jesus Christ that Deseret Book has published, but I have to say that "In Quiet Desperation" deserves to be in this elite category, because of the way it teaches how we can apply the power of the Savior's Atonement in our individual lives, no matter what we're dealing with. And as I look back on it now, I'm humbled because I didn't know at the time that the lessons and truths from that book would bless my life years later, but God did. And so many years later, when my second son was in high school, he told my wife and I that he was gay. And yeah, it was such a tender mercy that I'd already been tutored and mentored about this topic from my Father in Heaven, who clearly knew my needs, and loved me enough to give me a sneak peek.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Chris, I think that it's incredible, because we talked about Heavenly Father being a God who knows the end from the beginning and who understands, you know, far in advance the things that we will need. And I love your example, because it's such a good reminder that Heavenly Father is in the details. But how do you feel like you responded differently in that moment when your son came out to you and your wife than you would have had you not worked on that book?

Chris Schoebinger

Oh, yeah. So having an understanding buoys everything. And since working on that book, and through the years, this is what I've come to realize, and it's what I came to realize, when we were introduced to this situation, and I'm not passing this off as anything but my own understanding. But I've come to believe that my gay son, or our gay children aren't gay, because it's their challenge. I believe their gayness is a challenge for us. And I feel like God was saying to me, I need to teach you something about love, but you won't be able to truly learn what I need you to learn, unless you have a gay son. And, to this day, I thank my Heavenly Father daily, for my gay son because I'm a better person, a better disciple of Jesus Christ, because of him.

Morgan Jones Pearson

What would you say you've found to be the blessings of being a father to this particular son and what are the reasons for that gratitude to your son for the things that you've learned from loving him and being his father?

Chris Schoebinger

So this son of mine he is a best friend. And when it came down to what I wanted most is that I wanted most to have a relationship with my son. My wife and I had decided from the very beginning that our home would always be open to him and it would always be a refuge from life's storms. And so I guess what I learned is that love is always the answer, which feels so cliche, but it is what has worked for us. Do my wife and I understand what his situation is entirely? No, and we don't have to. So we just love him. And that's worked for us.

Morgan Jones Pearson

What would be your biggest advice to other parents specifically whose children are within the LGBTQ community?

Chris Schoebinger

I guarantee you right now, there is a parent listening to this podcast, whose son or daughter has not revealed to them that they are gay, I guarantee that 100%. And the smart parent will probably have picked up on it. And the wise parent will have already been on their knees and asking for God to open their heart to just love perfectly, which is not an easy thing to do all the time. But we can. And again, that's the answer is the only advice I could give is, look, there's only one judge in Israel in our ward and that's the bishop. And none of us are required or need to judge, all we're required to do is love. And so that's the role that we have taken on his parents, we are going to love him until...well, we're going to love him, period. And I think the rest will work itself out.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Chris, let me ask you this. I know you said that you felt like Ty Mansfield, who wrote "In Quiet Desperation" is one of the most Christ like people you've ever met. And you talked about, you know, the lessons that you learned about the Atonement from working on that book? Could you share any of that specifically about what you feel like you learned about the Atonement, or what you've learned from Ty as you worked with him on that book?

Chris Schoebinger

Yeah, Ty is truly one of the greatest human beings I've ever met, not only because of the courage that he had to do what he felt was right, which is not only write a book like this, but to use his real name, which in and of itself is saying, This is who I am. And yet, I think, Ty would tell you that this attraction doesn't define who he is, that ultimately he is a son of God. And I think what his book, and what his teachings that he shares in the book, certainly are reflective of the doctrine that is found within the gospel, but it really shows us how, gosh, all of us are dealing with hard things, all of us are dealing with maybe things we don't understand, or things that we didn't plan on, and the Atonement is a power that we can tap into to help and heal us. And he says it in such a way that feels so relatable, and so real. That's why it's on my my recommendation list, because I think we need other perspectives that teach the Atonement of Jesus Christ. And I was deeply touched by the way he taught me.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Years ago, I wrote an article for Deseret News that allowed me to interview a lot of people within the LGBTQ community that are active members of the Church. And I walked away from writing that story wanting so badly to be a better person, and to be more like those people that I had interviewed. And so I understand what you mean. And Ty was one of those people, he's a powerhouse. So I'm grateful for him in the work that he's done. Chris, when you think about from your conversion to the Church to your ability to adopt your son to your work at Deseret Book, and how that's had an interesting role in different aspects of your life, what kind of gratitude do you feel toward God for the way He has guided your story?

Chris Schoebinger

Boy, yeah, I think the gratitude is grounded in something that is both temporal and eternal right? As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the one thing that is most precious to us now, and through eternity are relationships. And so I'm mostly grateful for the relationships that God has put in my personal story. And as I look back, I think my greatest blessings, my greatest successes are a direct result of the good people that God has placed in my path. And first and foremost, my wife, Jennifer, but, you know, my children and extended family and all the people I've talked about today, and you know, those mentors who have helped nurture what God has had already planted in my life.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Okay, last question for you, Chris, is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Chris Schoebinger

Yeah, I've been thinking about this Morgan. And it brings me to the heart of my favorite characters in most stories, and those are the ones that are going through hard things, but continue to be all in in showing empathy along their hero's journey. And it to me it's that empathy or that act of lifting and helping and rescuing that is the very definition of all in. And so when I think about that, and I think about the empathy, I think about this scripture that I call my all in scripture, and it's in Moroni 7:47, and I'll read it, it says, "But charity is the pure love of Christ, and it endureth forever and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him." And then the next verse, the prophet Moroni pleads, "Pray unto the Father with all the energy of your heart, that you may be filled with this love." And when I read the word filled, it's a clear indicator to me that we're not always going to have a full tank of charity to love people, right? Some days are going to be better than others. And that's okay because we've been given the tools to fill those tanks in our hearts, and that allow us to act and to reach out and to lift where we can. And having that charity is basically my ultimate goal in life is just to have enough so I can be all in when God needs me.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I love that idea. I've never thought a lot about that, that scripture and the idea that, really, we can pray to have that charity all in us and have it fill us. So thank you so much, Chris. It's been wonderful to learn more about you and your story, and I appreciate you sharing it with us.

Chris Schoebinger

Thank you, Morgan. It's been wonderful to be here and thank you for inviting me.

Morgan Jones Pearson

We are so grateful to Chris Schoebinger for joining us on today's show. You can visit ShadowMountain.com to learn more about the Shadow Mountain imprint. Big thanks to Derek Campbell of Mix at Six Studios for his help with this episode. And thank you so much for spending your time with us. We'll be with you again next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai