Kacey McCallister: Without Any Reservation

Morgan Jones Pearson 0:00

When he was a little boy Kacey McCallister was leaving his uncle's mission farewell when he was hit by a semi-truck. The accident took Kacey's legs but his parents refused to let it steal their son's potential, or his ability to do anything he sets his mind to accomplishing. As a result, Kacey made it to the state championship in high school wrestling, is a husband and father, and has even completed Spartan Races. Kacey McCallister has a passion for inspiring youth to embrace trials and challenges. He is the author of the book "When Life Gets You Down, Rise Up," and frequently speaks to students and companies throughout the United States. This is All In, an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson. And I am so honored to have Kacey McCallister, on the line with me today, Kacey, welcome.

Kacey McCallister 1:02

Yeah, glad to be here. It's a pleasure.

Morgan Jones Pearson 1:05

Well, this is so fun for me. And I have to tell you, I did some digging and some research. And I just, I am blown away by your example of resilience and I think the thing that impressed me the most, and people will get a sense for this as we go through the interview. But I love the way you have not let your accident, that we're gonna go into, you haven't let it stop you from doing anything, which just blows my mind, like you were talking about, like re-siding your house and doing all these projects in your home. And I was like, I make excuses for why I can't do those things. And so I just admire your faith and your example. And just am so excited to learn more about you today. But Kacey, before we get into all of that, I wondered if you would be willing to tell people in a little bit more detail what you or even your parents remember about the day of your accident?

Kacey McCallister 2:07

Well as far as memory goes, I really don't remember much. Although I do remember, I remember most of the day before, I was six years old at the time. So I remember getting ready for church. I remember we had pancakes at my grandma's table that she'd had for, I don't know, 1000 years or whatever. I remember that table. Remember the homemade syrup. And I remember walking to church, it was in Roosevelt, Utah, December 20th. So I remember the snow and my red cowboy boots that I was wearing. I remember going to church, back then sacrament was the last meeting of the day. And so I remember the Sunday school lesson that we did and I remember getting a Christmas tree cookie and I remember all this stuff. I don't remember what my uncle talked about (it was my uncle's farewell for his mission), I don't remember what he talked about. But then again, I was six. But I remember afterwards he came up to me and this honestly was very, very telling of a kind of foreshadowing I guess on what was coming. He shook my hand, this big Utah farm boy kind of guy. And he shook my hand and said, "Kacey, are you going to be a missionary?" And me being, a redhead six year old, I looked at up at him and said, "No, I'm a missionary now." I was definitely, I guess, a primary geek and, and those songs had definitely made an impression and I knew I was going to be a missionary Little did I know, in less than an hour, my road to that missionary experience would start. So I remember we were standing out on the road outside of the Church and my parents were talking, you know, they were just talking and talking and talking and I was annoyed because I wanted to leave and go, I don't know go get lunch at my grandma's house or whatever. So eventually we were standing on the edge of the road waiting to cross, it was just a divided highway you know, one lane each way. But it is a highway so traffic was going, you know, probably near 60 miles an hour. We're riding across my parents are standing right by me and they said okay, Kacey, there's two cars coming and a truck. Well, for a little six year old I waited as the two cars went by, and then I sprinted across the road whatever compelled me to sprint probably just as I was six. I don't remember running. I remember standing there with my parents, but I don't remember running. My parents said I ran and paused a little bit middle of the road and then kept going and they said I left at the very end trying to get out of the way of the truck. But the truck that was coming, it was a semi truck.

Kacey McCallister 5:10

And it caught my legs and rolled me in between the wheels of that 18 Wheeler. And it obviously stopped pretty soon and my dad ran over and when he got to me, my left leg had been completely removed by the semi and my right leg was pretty battered up. But he helped me and you know, very quickly gave me a blessing and just held me until the ambulance got there. So they rushed me off to the hospital there. And Roosevelt, if anybody's familiar with Roosevelt is a tiny, tiny little town and I went through recently and it really hasn't grown much at all, it's still pretty tiny. But they life-flighted me to Salt Lake City. And it was there coming into the hospital because we flew into the airport and then got helicoptered to the Primary Children's Hospital. And it was there that I remember anything...I don't remember anything up till this point about the accident. But I remember as we landed on top of the the hospital, and they brought me out on the stretcher. My first memory post-accident was I remember filling the wind from the rotor blades hitting me. And my only thought was, “it's really cold.” That was all I remember, I just remembered it was really cold, which talking with my mom, while I was writing my book, you know, trying to get all the all of my mom's memories, all my dad's memories, my mom told me that they had to come back three times they brought the wrong oxygen mask. And so they had to go back and then the next time the tank connections wouldn't fit. And they had to go back. And then the third time, there was no oxygen in the tank. And so there was many times so there's a reason I thought it was pretty cold because they had to keep bringing me out and put me back in the helicopter. So by they got it all figured out and got me in and began, you know, the lifesaving efforts. They pretty soon determined that that right leg, they said there was possibility of saving it. But the surgeon recommended against it, he said that the surgeries would go through my entire life. And that it probably would never function anyway. And it might kill me to try to save that leg. So my mom says he can live just fine without legs. And so they went ahead and amputated that right leg too. It's pretty amazing to me, besides the obvious, you know, losing my legs injury, I really had a minimal amount of other injuries, especially for getting smacked on the road. And through those wheels. I have a bald spot on the back of my head where, you know, the hair got scraped off and never regrew my broken elbow and, and some teeth got knocked out. But besides that, it was just scrapes and bruises. ...The surgeon contacted me years afterwards, years and years afterwards, and said, you know, in his email, he said, in his 40 years of trauma surgery, I was the worst case he'd ever seen, which means those cases never make it to the operating table. So it's such a testament to me, that Heavenly Father had just a lot of work that I needed to do that, that this was just the beginning of my lifelong missionary journey and so many times I see his hand in the process

Morgan Jones Pearson 9:03

Absolutely. Well Kacey I do think your life obviously was preserved for a reason. And I love seeing the way that you have taken advantage of that and have made no excuses along the way. I wondered as I watched some videos to prep for our interview, I noticed that most of the time when you're speaking, you're speaking to secular audiences, schools or companies. And so, I wondered how do you think the gospel helped your family through this experience?

Kacey McCallister 9:39

Well, honestly my mom, even before the accident, she had a premonition that something bad was going to happen. And she thought something was gonna die and eventually she knew one of her kids was gonna die. And so when they this happened, she had been prepared by Heavenly Father. In fact, when it happened, and everybody was trying to shield her and protect her, she was like, It's okay, I'm fine. I knew I was going to lose one of my children, you know, and so she was already prepared. And so when I lived, it was, you know, everybody else is going through this trauma, even my uncle who came down, he said you know, when he viewed me the day after he's like, “How could God allow this to happen?” And he was pretty broken up over it. And then he went right out from there, after seeing me and saw my mom. And she said, “I am so grateful that I get to raise my child.” And so, the eternal perspective that she had, it blows my mind to this day, how she was prepared, and just the strength from the gospel that my mom was able to have through this process. You know, my dad's a little more reserved in what his feelings were. He was probably trying to just keep everybody together and just be there for everybody. But he was there giving blessings, and just having that priesthood strength nearby. The whole process was very much directed by Heavenly Father. And we all felt that and, I mean when I woke up, and my mom was there, and I reached down to where my leg should have been, and my mom says, you know, Kacey, your legs aren't there anymore. I nodded and kind of laid back down. I mean, that was the extent of “Oh, no, I lost my legs.” And we've all believed and know that I have a purpose and doesn't mean that life has been easy in any sense of the word. But knowing that my heavenly Father knows me, for one, and not only that, [but] is guiding my life a little bit is a lot of it. It has been a huge strength for me.

Morgan Jones Pearson 12:16

That's beautiful. One thing I loved about your story is that the doctors gave your mom a very important piece of advice. And that was to not do anything for you. When you think about how much that one piece of advice or counsel has changed your life, what kind of gratitude do you feel toward that doctor that told your mom that?

Kacey McCallister 12:42

It was really interesting, I got to go and speak to a bunch of nurses from that hospital years and years later, when I was an adult, and already speaking for a living. And I talked to them because I have heard so many people go through trauma and they doctor said that I would never, you know, such and such and such and such, and I proved him wrong. And I was wondering, because the doctors pretty much gave my parents the exact opposite advice. "He will be able to do everything possible." And I talked to the nurses during that time I spoke and they said, "Yeah, that's our go to answer is it will be up to you to determine what they're able to do with their lives." And I am, I have an immense amount of gratitude for all the people, doctors, nurses, that made sure that my parents didn't, and they're pretty stubborn and independent when it comes to how they raise their kids anyway, so I don’t see that that totally changed everything. But that is the message that they definitely took to heart. And they made sure that I could do anything I needed to do. In fact, one story goes my uncle was out the house and I wanted to show him something, I don't know, maybe a new toy. But anyway, I brought him into my room and the light was off. And so I said, Hey, Uncle Kirk, can you turn on the light? And so he goes to turn on the light. And my dad smacks his hand away and says,” Don't you dare!” And, and he was kind of ticked off. He's like, “Bernie, don't be a jerk, just turn on the light.” And my dad says “He has to do it.” And so I couldn't reach him. I was pretty short just lost my leg and I couldn't reach the light switch. And he's like, Well, you got to figure out a way and so I looked around the room and came up with a little baseball bat and used that to turn on the light. But that is so exactly how my parents made sure that I could do absolutely anything. I mean, I was playing baseball within months after losing my legs. I mean, my dad was pushing me around the bases because I was still pretty weak and slow at that time. So there's this amazing example of you are going to do it, you're going to figure out a way to do it, but we are here to support and help you the entire way. And that was kind of a hallmark of my parents, like you will do it, you'll find a way, you're never gonna say can't do it. But if you need help, we are here to help.

Morgan Jones Pearson 15:30

Well, and I think that that's so powerful, because I think in the Church, there's a real focus on self-reliance and in trying to help all of us be develop those the ability to care for ourselves and to do the things that we need to do. How do you think that principle of self-reliance is important, no matter what your challenges in life are?

Kacey McCallister 15:54

Well, I think that's the whole point is all of us are gonna have challenges. I mean, we all have some really hard things that we're going to deal with or are dealing with in our lives. And the more that we can figure out that self-reliance part, the more able we're going to be to, to serve others serve our family and serve ourselves, especially in a world where it's very much a blame game. You know, we blame people for the finances, you know, the government, blah, blah, the world is horrible. We can't, you know, financially make it. Our emotional health we blame on everybody else. And not to lessen any of those things, but as we start to learn how to take care of ourselves, and how to be healthy in our family lives, in our mental health, in our financial health, as we learn to take care of all those things, we are going to be able to deal with the things that life throws at us. And honestly, our heavenly Father, He wants us to be able to serve. We've been blessed with the gospel, and if we are able to take care of our families and ourselves, how much better are we going to be able to take care of those around us? How much better are we going to strengthen and serve and further our Heavenly Father's goal, which is to care for his children?

Morgan Jones Pearson 17:38

I completely agree with you, Kacey. Leading up to your accident, you said you always wanted to be an athlete, but then after your accident, you said you recognize that you now had a story. And that story was something that could be used throughout your life and be a powerful tool. What would you say looking back on your life to this point, from that time that you were a little boy to now, what would you say is the most important part of that story.

Kacey McCallister 18:12

I mean, obviously, people gravitate towards you know, when I lost my legs, but honestly, the most important part of kind of becoming who I am was the things that I had to figure out and overcome. I mean things happen in our lives, you know, honestly, life is gonna stink, it is going to be hard. But it is the trials that we go through, that make us who we are. The obstacles are the path, they don't block the path, they don't hinder the path, the obstacles in our lives, they are the path that creates us, they are what grows us, that's what changes us into who we need to be, you know, you look at any, any athletic endeavor, any artistic endeavor, anything like that, and it takes training, I do the Spartan Races. So I like to look at this, the Spartans, because they are one of the, the most epic warriors throughout history. And they were trained and taken away from their moms when they were like seven years old, to begin the process of becoming these elite warriors. Not that I recommend, you know, taking your kids away and seven and, putting them in sports camp for the rest of their lives, but it is the same with us in our lives. Our Heavenly Father, He sent us down here to Earth, and we are very much as children. And our Heavenly Father, I believe a lot of our trials are given to us from our Heavenly Father. It's like when we send our kids off to school, you know, we are sending them off to learn. When they come home parents often ask, what did you learn? How was your day? And you know what'd you learn? Kids come back with? "I don't know. Nothing," Or "Stuff." And on so our Heavenly Father did the same exact thing he sent us to Earth to learn, you know, this is a proving ground. This is testing ground. This is where we learn and grow. Now how sad would it be if we were to return home to our Heavenly Father, and He says, “Welcome back home. So glad to have you here. Here's some cookies”, I don't know, whatever. And then he asked, “What did you learn?” You know, how sad would it be if we get a deer in the headlights look and say, "I don't know. Stuff." Or worse yet "Nothing." You know, how much better would it be if we come home to our Heavenly Father, when he asked What did you learn, we are able to tell him of these experiences of our lives. So yeah, throughout my life, I have had so many growth experiences, I have had so many times where other people say, Okay, this is impossible. You know, Kacey, you can't play basketball, you can't ride a horse, you can't mow the lawn, you can't do cross country and all of these things that a legless guy obviously cannot do. And I knew that there was nothing, very much like Nephi, I'm gonna go and do. The Lord has told me, you know, He hasn't said that a legless guy can't do this. Can't do that. And so I'm gonna go forth, and I'm going to figure out how to do absolutely everything. Absolutely every obstacle that's put my way I'm gonna figure it out.

Morgan Jones Pearson 21:56

I think it was Adidas. It may have been Nike, that had the slogan impossible is nothing. And I think that's so true. I mean, nothing is impossible with God. And you are evidence of that. And your approach to life is contagious. You mentioned that you've had a lot of things that you've gone through, other challenges, and one of those things that I think you and your wife have embraced and done. That's so impressive as you adopted a child who is also in a wheelchair from Ukraine. Can you tell me a little bit about how that came to be?

Kacey McCallister 22:37

Well, I blame Institute. I was called to be an institute teacher, which I love teaching, that's, that's what I love. But one of the lessons, the question was, what do you treasure? That's a pretty common topic in the Gospel, what are your treasures, treasures in heaven, all that and so I was going through the lesson getting ready to teach this. And so I started thinking about, you know, I'm teaching these, 18 to 30 year olds in this evening Institute course, I was like, Okay, what do they treasure, you know, and then the lesson is said it's what you spend your time, your energy and your money on. That's a very realistic way to think of what your treasures are, we don't have to be all spiritual about thinking about our treasures, what do you treasure? Well, what do you spend time, money and energy on? And I had a good group of kids. And so I was thinking, okay, they're spending time energy and money on school, their careers, and this and that, and then, you know, I turned it on myself. I'm like, “what are my treasures,“ and I realized, because as a parent, there is only one thing that fills all of those categories, you spend most of your time on your children, you spend most of your money on your children, and definitely you spend most, if not all, of your energy on your children. And not that it was a huge revelation, but it was kind of cool because as a younger couple finances were something we thought about and discussed often. And I was like, Hey, this is our treasure and and this is kind of what we're investing our time, energy and money in right now. And pretty soon after that, my wife says, you know, we need to adopt. Let's spend our money adopting somebody, which wasn't the route I was going at all with that lesson. That was the lesson we got. And so after that, she started to really investigate and it was something we'd always talked about, but that's where it is started. And we knew we wanted to to adopt somebody with physical disability, somebody that really was going to have a hard time getting adopted otherwise. And so she looked outside of the states because it's harder for the orphans that are outside of the United States. And so she looked and she found Ukraine as a place that she wanted to adopt from. And then, and then she found our son, and nothing could deter after that.

Morgan Jones Pearson 25:19

And how old is that son now?

Kacey McCallister 25:22

He's 12 years old, he was six when we adopted him, and especially with everything going on in Ukraine right now, looking at where the attacks are and everything, he probably wouldn't be alive today. In fact, we don't know if any of the kids that he grew up with would have survived what's going on right now.

Morgan Jones Pearson 25:44

Wow. Let me ask you this, Kacey, in those six years, since you've had him, how have you found, and I assume you go into it knowing "This is what it's like to live with some of these physical challenges. I want to adopt somebody that has them because I know how to deal with them." But I wonder in the last six years, how have you found that you are uniquely qualified to be the parent of a child with physical challenges? And how have you found that to be an asset in your relationship with your son?

Kacey McCallister 26:17

Well, it's pretty amazing He's severely disabled, he's got cerebral palsy, he is not chair bound, we get him out of the chair, but he's non mobile, outside of the chair, he's nonverbal. And so he's got all these big challenges. And some of the times the people at school, say he can’t do this, he can’t do that, and do this. Well, ever since we got him, we've always worked on even the small little things that he can improve on him, when we got him he would, he wouldn't sit up, he would lay down constantly. And so we helped him learn how to sit up and it sounds so small, but it was an insane improvement for him. And now, I mean, not only can he sit up, but he can, when we're going to bed, I have him sit up, and then he pulls himself into a standing position. And then he can hold himself on my back and I can take him to bed or I can transport him. And so these little seeming things, you know, it's not. I haven't trained him to do a Spartan Race, he probably will never be able to do one on his own at least. But he can make those small, little improvements. And then that's one of the biggest things that I've found in my life. It's not the go climb Mount Everest problems that we're going to face in our lives, it's going to be those small steps, those small obstacles that we are going to be able to overcome on a daily basis on a weekly basis, that really is going to change who we are, and it's going to make our lives that much richer.

Morgan Jones Pearson 28:10

Thank you so much for sharing that. How would you say that your son that you've you adopted? How has he blessed your family?

Kacey McCallister 28:18

Oh, he's incredible. And it's amazing, because it's not blessings that come from the words he says, it’s not blessings that come from his actions. His incredibly sweet spirit has blessed our family and blessed our lives in honestly, immeasurable ways. And it's kind of hard to even say, you know, how has he blessed our lives? Because he's just has. He’s an incredible kid, obviously, being able to take care of him and serve him is a blessing for us. But it is definitely not one sided. He is not just some husk of a human being that never interacts with us. His incredibly sweet spirit is definitely, it affects us and it's incredible to see how he affects everyone around him even as disabled and immobile and nonverbal as he is. It's definitely a testimony to me of our spirits because he is a very unique person and has just blessed our lives immensely.

Morgan Jones Pearson 29:39

Kacey, you mentioned that you've done the Spartan Race and I mentioned some of the other incredible things that you have already accomplished. I wonder what is left on your bucket list? Like what do you still want to do that you haven't done?

Kacey McCallister 29:55

Oh, that's a problem with my bucket list because I think it just keeps growing. I definitely want to complete an Ironman. I've done a half Ironman, which you know, I guess since I'm, you know, half of a man doing a half Ironman. But doing Ironman is definitely one of my goals. There's ultra Spartan Race, which is 30 plus miles, I want to do an ultra Spartan Race. Heck, I'd like to climb you know, the tallest mountains in the world. That would be that would be quite the epic adventure for me as well. I just started doing jujitsu. So I have goals to win tournaments in jujitsu, which is right up my alley, because I wrestled in high school. So I'm pretty excited about that, too. Yeah, I it just keeps growing. And I actually have had to start figuring out how to focus on certain things rather than just keep doing absolutely everything I can. Because as we all know, kids take a lot of time. And honestly, my family is my number one priority. So growing a speaking business, motivating the world is still very much part of what I do, helping the youth of this world to overcome their challenges is one of my constant bucket list goals that I always work on.

Morgan Jones Pearson 31:27

So as you were talking about these things, the Spartan Race, and then wrestling, I kept thinking, I just want people to be able to see these videos of you because they're so incredible. So I'll be sure to put some of those in our show notes so that people can have a visual, because it really awe inspiring. But I love that you mentioned the youth of the church. And I want to say, as I was prepping and watching some of these videos, I noticed how often people that have heard you speak for EFY have commented on those videos and said his example changed my life. And so you certainly are succeeding in that goal. And I think that that's very cool. You mentioned your family and your desire to be a good dad and to support your family. And that being your highest priority. I wondered, what is it like as you have growing children who understand more and more the challenges that their dad faces, because I imagine when you have babies, they just see you and it's like he is what he is. But as they grow older, they recognize more and more how unique their dad is, and how amazing you are. So what is that, like, as your children grow up and recognize those things?

Kacey McCallister 32:44

I don't know that they've reached the point. I'm still just dad, you know, I'm I don't know that they really understand that I am different at all. Obviously I don't have legs, but it's just so standard for them. You know, it's so standard that I go and do the impossible things, the Spartan Races ,the jujitsu, whatever I do, it's just what I've always done. And so they have a perspective of constantly seeing the impossible is never impossible. It's just something you got to work on. It's just something that you constantly train yourself to overcome. So they have that perspective, maybe one day, they'll be like, "Holy cow. That's insane that he did that." But right now, I'm just dad with bad dad jokes and everything else that goes along with being a dad.

Morgan Jones Pearson 33:46

Yeah. Kacey, you mentioned earlier in our conversation, you've referenced emotional challenges and about how that's something that a lot of people struggle with, and I got the impression that you have not been immune to those things yourself. And you've mentioned in some of these previous interviews, that there have been times where you've struggled, and as as I've listened to you today, I'm like, "He's so upbeat. He's so enthusiastic, so optimistic," but what pulls you out of times where maybe it doesn't feel so light or happy or optimistic.

Kacey McCallister 34:22

I mean, I've had plenty of times of depression and sadness and intense emotional struggle. Honestly, I've gotten this question a lot. And I wish I had just this life changing answer for people, but I really don't have one because the same thing that gets me through is the same thing with the rest of my life is, I keep moving forward. In all, there's so many times that I've failed in life, and I just have to keep moving forward. And it's the same thing with those times of feeling not enough or worthless and or just severe sadness is I keep moving forward. There's not a magic thing or a magic pill or a thought that has seen me through all of it. I have always looked towards the future I've looked towards what are my eventual goals, where do I want to end up, and none of those goals and with me in my current situation, and so even though those times come, and sometimes for years, you know, those situations, persist, you know? And the thing that we have to understand is, that's not who we are, and we're not going to be stuck in that place forever. And if we stay, I mean, the only thing that can stay us in that place, is ourselves, as we continue to move forward, as we continue to improve, as we continue to keep ourselves in line with our Heavenly Father's goals. He will see us through. Just like the poem, “Footprints in the Sand”, which I really want to rewrite it to “Butt Prints in the Sand,” because I'm weird like that. But truth is our Heavenly Father is going to carry us. He's gonna help us, He's gonna guide us, and we won't see Him, we will have no clue that He's there. Because we're in the thick of it. We're going through those trials, we're going through those struggles. But He is there either walking beside us, carrying us, holding our hand, He's there, even if we cannot feel Him because of how hard life is at the time. He is there 100% because He loves us so much. I think of my children. I mean there may be a time where we're not able to, see, hear, talk, or maybe we'll be estranged at that point. But I will always be there for my children. As I know, my Heavenly Father is for me, and He will see me through those trials.

Morgan Jones Pearson 37:30

That's beautiful. Thank you so much, Kacey, it has been such a treat for me to talk with you today. And I appreciate your time more than you know, my last question for you is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Kacey McCallister 37:45

Being all in the gospel of Jesus Christ, it doesn't mean that life is going to be easy. But what it means is that we know that our Heavenly Father is real. You know, I have a firm testimony of that and have a firm testimony that Jesus Christ is our Savior, and that he truly did sacrifice Himself for us and, and how that makes us all in is our lives are guided by that fact. Yeah, they may be hard and holy cow, are we gonna make mistakes. Holy cow are we going to fail, holy cow, are we going to sin. But being all in the gospel of Christ means that we will come back to our Heavenly Father, we will return to that loving embrace. Life is going to be hard, It just is. That doesn't mean that we're less of a person. Just because we have doubts about life or any of that doesn't mean that we're less of a son or daughter of God. Being all in the gospel of Jesus Christ doesn't mean we're perfect, holy cow. There's so much in the gospel that we fail at maybe, I don't know, maybe somebody out there is perfect in the gospel, but it sure isn't me. I fail all the time. But being in this church, being in this gospel, being all in the Gospel means that I know that I have a loving Heavenly Father and means I know that Jesus Christ is there to help me to strengthen me and to be there next to me as I grow. There can be no growth in any part of life without struggle. Just like your muscles, being an athlete, your muscles can't grow until they’ve been strained, until they've been tried. And in fact talking about it on a microscopic level until they've been broken down. And it is the same thing in the gospel. We cannot grow into the children our Heavenly Father needs us to be without struggle, without trial. Heck, looking at the Come, Follow Me this year. You look at any of them as prophets, you look at Joseph in Egypt, you look at Moses, you will look at Jacob, none of those prophets of the Old Testament or any prophets came to where they were without years—I mean most of those were talking on the order of 20 plus years—of struggle and trial, until they started to become who their Heavenly Father wanted them to be. So brothers and sisters, don't ever think that you're not enough because He loves us and He is there, doesn't matter what you messed up doesn't matter why you struggle with, He loves you without any reservation without any conditions. He is there constantly, and that's what it means to me to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Morgan Jones Pearson 40:52

Thank you so much, Kacey, I am looking forward to seeing all that you accomplish moving forward. I have no doubt you'll take on those mountains and achieve those goals. And so, I'm excited to follow along as you continue to knock those things off your bucket

Kacey McCallister 41:11

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Morgan Jones Pearson 41:17

We are so grateful to Kacey McCallister for joining us on today's episode. You can find Kacey's book “When Life Gets You Down, Rise Up” on Amazon. Big thanks to Derek Campbell of Mix at Six Studios for his help with this episode and thank you so much for listening. We will look forward to being with you again next week.