Kathryn Davis: Parenting and Teaching Teenagers

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Morgan Jones Pearson

Kathryn Davis wants to make one thing very clear: she doesn't consider herself to be an expert on teenagers. But she was gracious enough to agree to try to help me a first year seminary teacher floundering in Isaiah better understand a generation of kids that although not really that much younger than me sometimes seem like they're growing up in a completely different world. So I took full advantage of the chance to talk with someone who is not only a fourth year seminary teacher, but it's also the mom of teenagers. In addition to being a full-time seminary teacher, Kathryn Davis is an FSY speaker and session director. She loves skiing, football, golf and trail running with her dog London who they got because she lost a bet with her daughter. She previously taught high school English, German and psychology where she also worked with Steven Covey to help implement and train the Seven Habits of Highly Effective Teens into her high school curriculum and was a contributor on his book "The Six Events of the Restoration." She is the host of the new Magnify podcast. This is All In, an LDS Living podcast, where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson and I am so honored to have Kathryn Davis on the line with me today. Kathryn, welcome.

Kathryn Davis

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here for this.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well this is such a treat and I have so enjoyed what I've heard of the Magnify podcast so far. And I'm excited for people to get to know you better through that. But my hope in this episode–on Magnify, you're not going to talk a lot about yourself. And my hope is that we can, we can kind of introduce people a little bit more to you and who you are. And they'll feel like they're listening to a friend even more when they listen. So that's the hope

Kathryn Davis

Oh, well, that will be fun. Hopefully, people can get to know me a little bit more. I'm kind of an open book.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Okay, perfect. So am I so we'll get along just fine. But I also I have to tell listeners that I have a little bit of like a selfish motive here. And that is I just got called to be a seminary teacher, which we just made this connection before we started this interview that Kathryn's brother is the one who got me into this predicament. Kathryn's brother is my stake president. And so I just got this calling. Kathryn has been teaching seminary for three years.

Kathryn Davis

For almost four.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Okay, so you're see you're like almost a pro at that point if you've done it for four years.

Kathryn Davis

Oh, I don't know. There's so much to learn all the time. That's why I love it. There's always so much to improve on and to get better at and to learn.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Yeah, well, I've been amazed just in the first few weeks, and I only teach one day a week. So I don't get quite that continuity with the kids. But I've been amazed by, to your point, it's something new all the time, and you're trying to figure out how do I best connect and help? And so I wondered, how did you get into seminary teaching? Because it's not your calling? Is that right?

Kathryn Davis

No. So I I'm in Utah, so I'm a full-time teacher. So I am at the school at the seminary building, and they have release time and they come to the seminary building, and I teach every day all day, which is great.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Okay, and and how did you decide to do that? Because you have to like, actually intentionally seek that out.

Kathryn Davis

Yeah. And I that was not part of my plan at all. I actually, I met my husband at EFY. When I came home from my mission, my husband and I were EFY counselors. And I stayed involved with the EFY program for a little bit. I love the youth. I love teaching. But I am a busy mom and I have four very, very active, busy children. And I've just been in the thick of raising them and going to all their activities. And a couple of years ago, I had a friend who said, hey, they need seminary subs. And I thought, Oh, that would be something that would be fun to do when I had time. So I kind of started doing that a little bit. And then there was a seminary teacher who got in a pretty severe car accident. And the principal at the high school asked if I would take over his classes for a couple of months. And I thought I could do that. And so one day I came out of subbing and the principal was standing in the hallway and he said, Kathryn, you have to do this full time. And I thought no I don't. I don't know and he goes, No, you really have to do this. And so he called pre-service on the phone. And I signed up for the classes. And I thought, well, let's just kind of see where it goes. And all along, I was kind of hesitant. And it's super vulnerable to put yourself in that position where people can come and watch you teach and tell you if you're a fit or not, and I and I just wasn't, I wasn't sure. But all along, Heavenly Father kept saying, you need to do this, you need to try this. And I wasn't sure how was going to work out with my husband and his job and my kids. But I student taught for a semester, and then I was asked to go full-time. And I did. And Heavenly Father has opened up the doors for my kids to be taken care of, and for other things to happen. So that was kind of how I got into seminary. It wasn't on purpose, but I felt very led and directed.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Okay, so I am curious, coming from a total noob to somebody that's got a few years experience under your belt? What have you found to be most effective? Or what would be your biggest tips for teaching teenagers in a church setting?

Kathryn Davis

Okay, that's a good question. And I think this is one of the reasons why I felt impressed to teach aeminary is I just love them. And I felt so strongly that they needed somebody who, in their lives every day, who loved them, who saw them. And that was one of the reasons why I got into seminary is just to offer love and offer a safe place. And Elder Holland has said it's one of my favorite quotes from him. He said, "If you love them today, then you can maybe teach them tomorrow." And I hang on to that is, is just when they come in, I genuinely love them, I enjoy them. I think they are so fun. And I want to be with them. And I think the other key thing for teenagers is you have to make it relevant. If it's not relevant, there's no reason for them to pay attention or to listen, there's too many other things that they can be doing and they have to do at that time. So I always think of what it is, if I'm reading a scripture block or preparing the lesson, I'm like, What's the need for them? Like what can I create an itch this lesson can scratch? It has to be relevant to them and their lives or they're not going to pay attention? Right? And so that's the key for me is to love them. And to make it relevant.

Morgan Jones Pearson

The first point that you made reminded me so we have three seminary teachers in our seminary and one of the other teachers, she made like a poster board of all the kids, you know, and at the very bottom, I was just looking at it the other day, and I noticed that at the very bottom in like fine print, she put a note and it was like, these are the seminary students, and I love them fiercely. If you do anything to these pictures, I will hunt you down. And then she like signed her name, like let me be clear who I am. I was like that is amazing so I love that. And I think you're so right, I found that if you're talking about something that they're interested in, they kind of perk up a little bit. And you can tell that you have their attention a little bit more. But right now, as you know, we're like in the thick of Isaiah and I have been in the thick of Isaiah almost the entire time I've been teaching. So I wondered what do you do as a teacher when you read the passage multiple times? And it's just I mean, maybe it's just me...

Kathryn Davis

It's not just you.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I will read those chapters. And I'm like, I have no idea what's going on.

Kathryn Davis

I get that. And not all of us are Bible scholars. And so sometimes as we read Isaiah, I love Isaiah, but it's taken me a long time to get there and I think there are a couple of key things that helped me and I've told my students is some things we know, right? The first thing I tell them is just look for Christ, and read every chapter in every passage, because Christ is in every chapter in Isaiah. And I think that's why I love Isaiah is I have come to know who Jesus Christ is in the book of Isaiah. And another thing that has helped me is as I've read as I've read the chapters, and maybe something's not really coming together, open up the Come follow me curriculum and find one principle, one principle that you are passionate about, and one principle that you're excited to teach and you think will interest the kids and so focus on that one principle. And maybe that's one verse or two verses, but I would go principle based, if that makes sense.

Morgan Jones Pearson

That makes complete sense. And I, I love that. We had a funny experience where I was talking to one of the boys moms last week. And she was like, He's just like drowning in Isaiah. And I was like, oh, no, like, I'm failing him, you know. And it's tricky when you have different teachers, and you all don't know what the other ones are covering. Yeah. And so you just kind of assume that, like they understand who Isaiah is. Anyway, so I plan this whole lesson around these questions that this mom said that her son had. And of course, the day that I teach the lesson, that boy's not there. I'm like, dang it.

Kathryn Davis

But I'm sure someone else had those same questions.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I hope so. But we did, one of the things that I really tried to stress was the fact that Isaiah was trying to help people recognize Christ when He came. And so that we, if we study Isaiah, we also will be able to recognize

Kathryn Davis

And how important that is for teenagers right now, right? They're trying to recognize Christ, they're trying to see how he can be important to them in their everyday life when they're in the thick of it with school, and work and friends. And so to help them find out how Christ can be important to them, and why they need Him, and why their lives can be better with him in it, and pointing them in Isaiah to find that, I think that is the power of Isaiah.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I 100% agree with you. So another thing that I've kind of struggled with is the kids come in, they're usually like, right on time, or a little bit late. And so they come in, right as class is starting, we start class, teach the lesson. And then as soon as we're done, you know, they're flying out the door to school. And so I wondered for you, what have you found to be the most effective ways for connecting with your students?

Kathryn Davis

That's a good question. And I think this is even important as a mom, when teenagers come into your house, in the church setting, because the power to connect with teenagers, and the ability to connect with teenagers, I think all it really takes is a genuine interest in them. I take time in class, right? That's important to me, because I truly believe that unless there's a place where they feel like they belong, and I'm not talking about fitting in. And I talk a lot about that with the teenagers, I don't necessarily want them to fit in, I want them to feel like they belong. Because fitting in kind of means that we're all trying to be like somebody else, right? We're trying to fit in a group or we're trying to fit in and, and belonging is we're accepted for who we are. And so I take time in class to get to know them, like we do a mystery person every day, or just if they come into your home to ask genuine questions. And sometimes it means putting an agenda on the backburner, right? Because it's more important to connect with them because you can't teach if you don't know them. And so even if, like, we'll have like a check in question every day where they're talking with their neighbors, or they're talking together, I will go around and individually talk to each student and ask questions and genuinely want to know them. And that's what I love most about teenagers is they know, they know when you're being real and authentic, right? They pick it up instantaneously. And so if you genuinely want to connect with them, oh my word, they are so willing to talk and connect with you.

Morgan Jones Pearson

That's so good. Thank you for that. I mentioned that you have teenagers of your own maybe maybe to set the stage for this part of our conversation. You could tell us just a little bit about your kids.

Kathryn Davis

Okay, so I have four. I have two daughters and two boys. My oldest daughter is at BYU right now. She went to a mission to Peru and is home and is now studying at at BYU. I have a daughter who is currently serving a mission in Lithuania. And she gets home in about three and a half months and I'm so excited.

Morgan Jones Pearson

That's a happy day for Mama.

Kathryn Davis

It's so happy. It's been like a crazy awesome mission for her but it's a long ways away. And then I have two boys. I have a son who is a senior and a son who is a sophomore. And so I have a house full of teenagers.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Yes. So I actually am curious having had two girls and then two boys. How would you say your girls and your boys are different or parenting them is different?

Kathryn Davis

They're so different. They are so different. And sometimes people say boys are easy. My girls were easy. I don't know, they went through their rough stage in like sixth grade. And then they hit seventh, eighth grade. And they were just they were a dream, right? My voice have been a little different. It's just I think it's emotionally, physically, mentally more taxing. With my girls I was involved with everything. And my boys, I have to try a little bit harder to be involved and be way more intentional with my boys than I ever needed to be with my girls, if that makes sense.

Morgan Jones Pearson

No, it makes complete sense. So as your kids because I don't even have kids yet and the thought of having teenagers I'm like, Oh, boy. And maybe it's because I am an older sister, my youngest sister is 16. And so I in a sense, feel like I have like a very, very small taste of caring about a teenager that Yeah, but to me, it feels very daunting to be a parent to teenagers. So I wonder for you, as you were approaching those ages, did it feel daunting at all? Does it feel daunting now? And why? Or why not?

Kathryn Davis

Yes, yes. And yes, like, it is daunting, but I'm going to tell you, I love it. Morgan, I love teenagers, like being a parent to teenagers is so fun. And I think that is my biggest advice is you just have to enjoy them. Enjoy the quirkiness and joy, like all of it, because they're fun, and you can hang out with them and their people and I just think you have to enjoy and go with it, and not fight against it. And I also think, I mean, it's daunting, because their decisions are bigger. And sometimes I feel like they matter more. And I remember one night really, really worried about some choices that they were making. Because they are big decisions, and they're going to affect their life, right. And I was so worried and you don't have control like you do when they're little, you've got to, I mean, teenagers have their own minds and their own sense of what they're going to do. And so there's this kind of this sense of loss of control. And I was really worried. And one night, I was up really late, just praying and worrying about them. And I just had this thought that came to my mind. And it was like Kathryn, I'm not worried about them. Why are you and that just stuck with me that God's not worried about them, because He has them. They were His long before they were mine. And if I can trust that God has them, and just enjoy and help along the way, and not worry, I think that can be some of the beauty of being with teenagers is to see God's hand in their life. I have seen God's hand in the life of my teenagers more than any other time, I've witnessed little things. And as I just understand that He's in control, and I can take a step back and and trust and know that, that He's got them. And that He's God. And He understands how His plan is going to work, right? And I also have learned that there's going to be ups and downs with teenagers. And I remember once somebody said to me, I know that I'm going to be a punching back, figuratively speaking for my teenager, that they're gonna come home and they're so loaded and bombarded with all the hard of the day that they're going to come in and they can explode at me. And you know, I'm okay with that. And so sometimes it's okay to be that person that your kids might want to vent to, and we might have the tendency to get defensive or get frustrated and I'm okay, knowing that it's going to be rough. And I'm just going to be there for them and love them. And if they need to take it out on me for a moment. I can be that person, I can be that safe person.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I love that. As you were talking, I realized I have a question. So having met you and two of your siblings. I'm like your parents must have been awesome. But I think it's interesting because you know, parenting today is so different than parenting 20 years ago. So how would you say you have taken things that your parents have done and tried to apply those in your own home and how have you kind of created new ways of parenting that you didn't get from your parents?

Kathryn Davis

That's a good question. I've actually thought a lot about this recently, my dad, we're coming up on almost a year that my dad passed away. And I miss him every day. And I just think one thing that my parents did so well is they were my biggest supporters. Always. They believed in me, when I couldn't believe in myself. They believed that I could succeed, they believed in the influence I could have, they believed in everything that I did, every day, when nobody else did. And that is one thing that has stayed with me forever about my parents. And that is the one thing that I want my kids to know, I make mistakes. I am so far from the perfect parent. But I think every one of my children would say, Yeah, my mom loves me. And my mom believes in me, like, I believe in them. And I believe in the power that they have, and the influence that they can have today, and every day. And my dad and my mom were so quick to say I love you. They said that all the time. And I am that parent to who is very expressive in how I feel about them and how I love them. And I don't want them to ever doubt that. And that is one thing, my parents were so good and my dad would always say, I love you, and I love your mother, but I love you more when I put God first. And they were very, they are and were very intentional about their love of God. And showing that to me and demonstrating that to me. And as I love God, I can love my children first. So I think that is some of some powerful lessons that my parents have taught me, about God, about family about unity, of the importance of having each other's back, of being each other's biggest cheerleaders, the siblings, and the parents. And I definitely try and emulate that in my home. I also, for me, I am very involved. And I think that is a difference in generations a little bit, I think today requires more involvement in their lives and their everyday activities. Whether that's driving them to carpool, it's like they're all involved in more things than they ever used to be. And so I am very involved with their activities, with their friends, I want their friends over at my house, I want to get to know their friends. I love their friends. And that is definitely I think one thing that I, as a parent, find very important.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Yeah, and I can see that being a generational difference, right? Because I think in the past, it was like you have your friends outside of the home, and then you come home and have dinner, you know, and just kind of a different way of living. I wondered, Kathryn for you, what have you found to be the biggest challenges your teenagers are facing that maybe those of us who don't have teenagers yet haven't even considered?

Kathryn Davis

I actually asked some of my classes that today I actually asked them I said, Do you think your parents know what you face when you walk down the halls of school? And they all were like No, I don't think they have an idea of how hard it is. Literally, I feel like these teenagers are like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. And they are thrown into the fire when they go into school, the things they face, the pressure, like with social media, with everything, they are in the fire, there is pressure that we, that I never experienced: pressure about the future, pressure about fitting in. I think they are generally overwhelmed. They are generally stressed and things are coming at them nonstop. And I think we don't understand the need or the stress or the weight that it takes for them to fit in with friends and to have friends and to feel like they belong. And I just I think that's something that if we could truly understand that when we send them out, that they are going into the fight and then when they come back that we have to love them and heal them and help them be safe from that. I think there's also a general lack of motivation for everything. I don't know if this is because of COVID and post COVID. But there is a apathy and a lack of motivation. And maybe that comes with the expectations and the weight of it all that sometimes the motivation is low. Does that make sense?

Morgan Jones Pearson

Yeah, it does. And I, it's funny, as you were talking, it's actually not funny. But I found myself having this very unexpected emotional response. Because I just feel like, even for women, and I think you'll find this with Magnify, I'm sure you've already seen this in the interviews. But I'm amazed by how often social media comes up as being something that weighs heavy on people, and feels overwhelming. So you think about somebody, I mean, a teenager is half my age. And so you think about somebody that age, having to then deal with something that feels overwhelming for somebody twice their age, and I just...that hurt, it feels heavy,

Kathryn Davis

And their brains aren't fully developed, right? They're still learning and growing. And they know that social media can be harmful. They know, they talk about all the time that we they only see the good and the expectations. And I think a huge part of social media is FOMO—is they see that their friends are doing something and they're not invited, and then it hurts, and they can take it personally, I just think that's a big part. And so many of my students, and my children have seen that people can be pretty mean, on social media, it's really easy to say something mean, or to do something mean and hide behind the screen. But the people that it affects, you're not hiding behind the screen, like it is real and is hurtful. And the fact that our teenagers are dealing with that every day in areas and forms that we don't even know and understand. I mean, just your heart breaks for them. You're right. There's so much compassion and so much understanding and so much it fills me with the need even more. I said this at the beginning, that when they come into my room, it has to be a safe place. Because for some of them, it's the only safe place that they have, when they are bombarded with images and messages that they are not enough, skinny enough, smart enough, popular enough, athletic enough, whatever, whatever whatever, that they crave a safe place and can we as adults and as women, and as members of the Church embrace them and create a safe place for them where they are enough. Because them plus Christ is enough. We're not enough on our own. But with Christ, we are.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Absolutely well. And you know, when you're talking about people hiding behind a screen, that's one thing that I've realized in hosting this podcast is that a lot of times and I will often say this, I've found that you become the target for somebody else's bad day. And so because people can leave reviews, and they don't have to put their real name. And for me a lot of times it's people complaining about the sound of my voice, which I'm like, that is the way that I am. That's the way that I and I don't really know how to change that. And so I get it. Like I understand how, and this is way off topic. But years ago, I found so I had written for Deseret News before I started hosting this podcast and I found a thread on a message board that just like ripped me to shreds, and I cried all day long. And so in like a small way I feel like I understand that whole like feeling bullied online and recognizing that it's just it's not fair. But that is the world that kids are growing up in.

Kathryn Davis

Yeah. And you mentioned that like, it is easy to bully. And it's devastating. The consequences are devastating and are hard and are real. And it's something that our kids deal with every day. I didn't understand—we talk about bullying, but I didn't understand or see it till I was in the schools and I had my own kids experience that and the devastating consequences of that.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Yeah, so how do you feel like as a parent, how do you help a child that's dealing with that?

Kathryn Davis

And that's a hard one. Because you know, I have a son who was bullied, and one you would never expect. I mean, he's 6'4" and 220 and plays for football and basketball. And, and it wasn't everybody. But there was a group who bullied him. And every weekend, his car was trashed, and our house was trashed. And there were vile things written across his car every weekend for well over a year. And I saw him start to change, like, he's very outgoing, and so fun. And then he started like, retreating. And he would only go to school and only go to practice, and then he would come home and just wasn't him. And he would come home, and we'd go out and look at his car, and he'd call us to have us help him clean his car and clean his car and wipe everything off. And he would cry. And he would just say, Mom, I'm trying so hard to be nice. I don't know what I'm doing. And, and my first instinct, as a mom, especially a mama bear, I would get super upset, right? And let me go fix it. And let me I'm going to, you know, do all this stuff. But as I got upset, he would get more upset, and then he would start to retreat more. And I found as I got upset, he wouldn't open up. And so I quickly learned that I couldn't react. And I would just sit with him and sit with him in his pain. And let him tell me how he was feeling. And all I would say is I love you. I love you like, it's okay, it's going to be okay. And so that's what I found is sometimes our reaction as parents doesn't help. We just need to sit and listen and understand and love. And I also have found that, especially with him, when he was going through those hard times, I looked for what he was learning. And he quickly learned to depend on God, I think in a way that he never would have had to otherwise. And so you know, I just need it to be that safe place for him, where he didn't feel defensive, he didn't feel judged, didn't feel anxious or worried about how I was going to react. I think so many teenagers are worried about how their parents will react. And they don't want to hurt them. And so they hold on to things. And as a parent, if we can learn to not react with whatever they tell us. Just listen, and love. I think teenagers would tell us a lot more if they didn't feel like we were gonna get upset.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Yeah, that's so well said thank you. So Kathryn, you told me that you feel like the best gospel conversations that you have with your kids are spontaneous. I wondered, how do you create a space to even have those conversations happen spontaneously?

Kathryn Davis

Okay. That's a great question. Because, for me, it has never been sitting formally in the family room or around the kitchen table. A lot of times it's around the kitchen table. But it's never in a formal setting. Typically, where we have great gospel conversations, it's always in the car. That has always been kind of a go to where my kids ask questions. It's in the car. And it's also—here's what I've learned is that crucial conversations are never convenient. I don't know what it is. But teenagers come up with like the most inconvenient times to talk to you about something, whether it's like you're just getting into bed and you're really tired, or you have a lot to do, that's when a question will come up. And so I always think just take a deep breath, and realize that this is the moment and don't shy away from those inconvenient times. And I just think it has to be at a time where you're open and you're willing to talk about questions and it comes because you ask questions, that you talk about questions you have with the gospel, and how you're trying to find answers. If if your teenagers know. Oh, look, mom and dad have questions. But that's okay. We're supposed to have questions I say all the time. I love questions. I love questions. Let's talk about questions. What questions do you have? And even asking them and telling them questions you have and then giving any opportunity to talk about that. A lot of times that might be in the car and one of my kids will say, oh, so and so this happened or that happened, you know, they went to this party and this was there, or my friend got a tattoo or, or this or that, or whatever it is, whatever question they have. That's an awesome time to just sit back and say, oh, like, what do you think about that? What do you feel about that and get them talking? Right. And then as they start sharing, you can have a beautiful conversation about hard questions, and we have to talk about hard questions. We have to, because if you don't talk about it with them, then they're gonna get questions elsewhere. In fact, one of my favorite quotes is from Elder Ballard, when he was speaking at An Evening with a General Authority when he was talking to seminary teachers, and he said this, "Gone are the days when a student asked an honest question, and a teacher responded, 'don't worry about it.' Gone are the days when a student raised a sincere concern, and a teacher bore his or her testimony as a response intended to avoid the issue. Gone are the days when students were protected from people who attacked the church." Those days are gone. Right? And we have to be willing and able to ask hard questions and talk about hard questions. And that starts with us in our home. And I couldn't think of a better place for my kids to ask me a hard question than sitting in the car, or, you know, my, my son came home a year, year or so ago from a dance and we were just sitting on the floor in the foyer. And he was like, "Mom, how do you like know that God is even answering your prayers?" And we just talked about it till, you know, one or two in the morning, and I was tired. But that was the time where he needed to talk. And so I think my kids know that hard questions, that it's a safe place, that there's no question off limit. I always tell them, the harder the better. And let's talk.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Yeah, well, I love that point that you make about inconvenient timing, because I'm thinking of like myself as a teenager. And I'm like, I 100% did that. Like I came into my parents bedroom. Like, as they're like, fading out to sleep like I got this on my mind, you know? So I think that is that's just when we need it. How do you handle that in your seminary classroom, when hard questions come up?

Kathryn Davis

I love it. I do I love it. In fact, that's what we we do most days, and we do every Wednesday, is I have them write questions. A lot of times, they're anonymous, and they can write them throughout the semester and put them in a box. I call it a gospel box. And we just go through and answer hard questions. When we answer hard questions. I have kind of a sheet of tools, different tools that can help us answer hard questions, and different statements. And so when somebody asks a hard question, I'll write the question up on the board. And I'll give them a couple of minutes to search and to find it and to say, how would you help our friend who has this question or is struggling with this and give them a couple minutes, a couple of minutes to search in the scriptures to look for conference talks to talk about it as friends. And then we talk about it as the class. And we will go to a lot of times the church's essays, and I'll pull those up on the screen and we'll read gospel topics. And we'll discuss and talk and have amazing conversations about hard things. And a lot of times, a lot of times we don't really have the answer. But we hold on like what Elder Holland said we hold on to what we already know. And we talk about how we can find answers. And I just think it's crucial. And it's important, and it's not scary. A lot of parents I think are scared. I get questions all the time from parents. My child is questioning this and it scares me and I just my first response is like, don't be scared. Like, dig into those questions and love that they're asking questions, because that means they care.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Right? Right. They're not checking out. So you just mentioned that that something that you say to parents, but I wonder is there anything else that would be your message to those who feel intimidated by the prospect of either parenting teenagers or teaching teenagers?

Kathryn Davis

Yeah, laugh a lot and enjoy them. And I think one thing I quickly learned is I wanted to be a mom who said yes. So when they would be like, Hey, Mom, will you come golfing with me? Will you come skiing with me, will you come do this with me? Will you come sit with me? I wanted it to be yes. I wanted to be the mom who did all the things. So when they ask you for something, do it and have fun with it, have fun, and let go of your inhibitions, right? And enjoy. Enjoy this time because it truly is so fun. They make me laugh every day, I just laugh. I sit in the kitchen, and I laugh and we dance and we sing and I am embarrassing. And that's okay, because that's my job. Right? But my kids know that I love them. And I enjoy being with them when they come home. I want to be with them when they want to be with me. Right? So enjoy them.

Morgan Jones Pearson

It's great advice. Okay, Kathryn, you've been so helpful. I'm just going to tuck this away until I actually have teenagers. Well, I'm going to tuck away the parenting parts, I'm going to apply the seminary parts and I may need you to send me that sheet that you were talking about.

Kathryn Davis

A seminary teacher that I work with started the sheet of tools that help answer hard questions. And it is so powerful, and we just have added to it over the years. And so I pass that out. And there are so many good tools on there, that this that somebody will ask the question and they'll and they'll be like, what one will help and and then somebody will say, Oh, this one like today we're talking about a question. And one of the tools was to understand that everyone's broken, that everybody in the church is broken. And that's why we all need Christ. Anyway, it's a powerful set of tools. I'll send it to you.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Okay, perfect, perfect. I'm excited about that. Okay, my last question for you is, what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Kathryn Davis

Morgan, I've heard you ask this question so many times. And I've always kind of thought, what would my response be to that? And I think that's a really good self check question, that maybe every listener needs to ask themselves, what does it mean to you and for me, it means choosing every day to believe. And as we're actually setting in the Old Testament, and we're about to come up on to Jeremiah, I've been thinking a lot about Jeremiah and Lehi. And they were there about the same time. And Lehi was commanded to leave and Jeremiah was commanded to stay. And I thought, for me, being all in means, I'll do it, if he wants me to stay, and I'll go if he wants me to leave, that I can trust that God has a plan, and that I'm all in that plan, whatever he asks me to do. And you know, in Jeremiah 28, verse 13, it says, "And you shall seek me and find me, when ye shall search for Me with all of your heart." And for me, being all in means with all of my heart.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So beautiful. Thank you so much. I have learned so much and I appreciate your time more than you know.

Kathryn Davis

Thanks for having me, Morgan.

Morgan Jones Pearson

We are so grateful to Kathryn Davis for joining us on today's episode. Be sure to check out the Magnify podcast available now on your podcast app of choice. Thanks to Derek Campbell of Mix at 6 Studios for his help with this episode. And thank you for listening. We'll be with you again next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai