Feeling unaccepted in a place of refuge, seems contradictory. Yet, this is how Lola Ogunbote, lawyer-turned-soccer coach, has sometimes felt when individuals judge her based upon her skin color at church.
"Outside of the church, just in society in general, there are problems with race. Whether you see it or not, whether you accept it or not, there is a problem," Ogunbote says. "There's a problem and a struggle. We've seen it in the UK, we've seen it in the United States. And so for me as a black woman, I want to come to church and escape that. And so it destroys me when the place that I am seeking refuge, I'm getting the same treatment that I'm trying to escape outside."
Ogunbote emphasized the need for everyone to care and love one another regardless of race.
"I heard it once that God has to work with imperfect people, it must be very frustrating. And we have to be tolerant towards one another, and we have to show love and sometimes you have to show love to people that don't love us," she says.
In this week’s episode, All In host Morgan Jones talks with Ogunbote about celebrating individuality, inclusion, and learning to feel comfortable in one's own skin.
Read an excerpt from their conversation below or click here to listen to the whole episode. You can also read a full transcript of the podcast here.
The following excerpt has been edited for clarity.
Morgan Jones: Having lived in a lot of different places, have you experienced racism in the Church?
Lola Ogunbote: Have I experienced racism in the Church? I think without going too deep...we have got to figure out what our definition of racism is first. I think a lot of people are ignorant. I think a lot of people have prejudices, we all have prejudices. A lot of people can be discriminatory and some are racist. I think I've experienced all of the above during my journey in this church. Some of it has just been ignorance and just not knowing and not been exposed to other cultures and other people. So people come out with what I would call just dumb comments. Other people generally have a problem with the color of my skin. And that, luckily, hasn't been a major factor. But I have been in church situations where people have expressed that they would rather not be there because of what I look like. And that's hard. It's hard to talk about, it's hard to say because I don't want to paint the Church or anyone in a bad light. But that's the point I was making before the doctrine, the culture, and the people, they are very, very independent of each other. And, you know, I think I heard it once that God has to work with imperfect people, it must be very frustrating. And we have to be tolerant towards one another, and we have to show love and sometimes we have to show love to people that don't love us. And that's been a hard lesson to learn. But I have not let it destroy me completely. There's been periods where it's been harder than others and it's caused me to question whether I even want to be part of this. But I think the overarching solution or idea or thought is that Jesus loves me. God loves me. He created me specifically in the way that I am. And I've come to learn to love that. It's taken me a long time. It's taken me a long time to embrace that. It's taken me a long time to be true to who I am and comfortable in my own skin. And I think as we talk about this, I've got to contextualize it in the sense that outside of the church, just in society in general, there are problems with race. Whether you see it or not, whether you accept it or not, there is a problem. There's a problem and a struggle. We've seen it in the UK, we've seen it in the United States. And so for me as a black woman, I want to come to church and escape that. And so it destroys me when the place that I am seeking refuge, I'm getting the same treatment that I'm trying to escape outside.
Morgan Jones: Right.
Lola Ogunbote: And so it's not necessarily the Church, it's the people. And so that's where I then have to step back, analyze and say, "Wait, well, that's just an individual's perspective. Am I going to let that detract from my journey with Christ, my walk with Christ, my walk with God? The God that made me in His image? No." And I say it now in a place where I'm comfortable, but it's been a battle. And I know there's a lot of people that are still battling with it, they don't feel like there's a place for them, or they don't feel that they're fully accepted. And I think to them, I would say, "I hear you, I understand. But seek your acceptance from God first. Seek your acceptance from Jesus, and then shelf the rest." Because we can't solve it all and I don't think it will get solved. I think sometimes you just have to, unfortunately, compartmentalize and say," I don't know why people treat me this way. I don't know why people want to focus on why we're different rather than what makes us similar." But that's got to be their problem. And you've got to not deny yourself the opportunity to walk with Christ because of small-minded and ignorant people and racist people.
Listen to Ogunbote's comments on race and the Church in its entirety here.