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Being an Intentional Encourager with David Butler

Tue Nov 08 05:00:58 EST 2022

In many cultures, clapping is a way to show respect, gratitude, and encouragement. We could all use more “clappers” in our lives—people who encourage us in the big moments and the small; someone who tells us to keep going, that we’re doing great, and that we are loved and supported. The Savior is the greatest clapper of all, and we believe He wants us to learn to cheer others on. In this episode, Kathryn and her guest David Butler discuss how we can become the clappers people need.

You can never annoy someone with a multiplicity of compliments.
David Butler

About David Butler

David Butler is constantly encouraging others through is work. If you know Dave even if it’s just through the screen, you know he’s a clapper. He’s a big fan of people! Dave is a dad, a teacher, an author, and a co-host of the popular YouTube channel, Don’t Miss This, where he encourages his listeners to better understand the scriptures. 

Top takeaways from this episode!

  1. The Savior wants us to show love by supporting one another--loudly and enthusiastically!
  2. When we see others the way God sees them, we'll be eager to encourage and cheer for their accomplishments
  3. Celebrating others does not take away from our own accomplishments. In fact, we receive more when we give more, which is what Dave calls "God's business model."
  4. Notice the abundance of blessings all around us, and we'll see more in ourselves and others.
  5. No matter how old or young we are, we all need to be reminded of the good we're doing and the value that our Heavenly Parents have given us.

Something to think about:

God has given us the pattern in the scriptures for how he operates. He asks us to lose ourselves in order to find ourselves, and to give in order to receive. This might be counterintuitive, but the blessings we receive in return show us his great wisdom and love.

Small and simple challenge:

Speak kinder and be more uplifting to yourself. You will then be in a place to be able to do that for other people, and you'll start to gain an abundance mindset.


Kathryn Davis 00:00

Hey recognize this sound? [Applause] Across many cultures clapping as a way we acknowledge, celebrate and encourage. Hi and welcome to Magnify an LDS Living podcast where we talk about using our influence as followers of Jesus Christ to make a difference in the world. I'm your host, Kathryn Davis, a mom, a seminary teacher and a Traeger enthusiast who loves God. Have you ever watched a marathon even from afar? One of the best parts of a marathon or race is what happens on the sidelines. All the good people who show up at the crack of dawn to clap and shout encouragement as runners pass by. Today's conversation is inspired by an Instagram post from David Butler. The graphic says, "Dear God, I want to be a clapper." And if you know Dave, even if it's just through the screen, you know he's a clapper. He is a big fan of people. Dave is a dad, a teacher and author and a co host of the popular YouTube channel, "Don't Miss This," where he encourages his listeners to better understand the Scriptures. And Dave, I'm clapping at the thought of spending time with you today. Before we dive in, can I have a few rapid fire questions for you so we can get to know you a little bit better? Okay. Are you ready? Yeah. And they might not be any any Disney questions because I know you're a big fan.

David Butler 01:28


Kathryn Davis 01:30

Question number one. If your hometown was a food, what would it be?

David Butler 01:35

It would be brisket.

Kathryn Davis 01:38

Really? Yeah. Yeah. Not not just because you love brisket?

David Butler 01:43

No, I love my hometown. So I love brisket, but also there's just something about southeast Houston. That's brisket.

Kathryn Davis 01:52

Oh yeah. You know, for sure.

David Butler 01:55

It's like the iconic barbecue food. Right? And not just like, yeah, it is burger and hot dog barbecue. Like that's not a barbecue. That's like grilling, but like barbecue. Do you know what I'm saying?

Kathryn Davis 02:08

Like smoking? Yeah. Yeah, I do know and it's good.

David Butler 02:10

And it's good and it's a little bit and it falls apart. And it's a little bit boujee. I come from a hometown that's a little bit... like has seven golf courses you know, so it has to be up. We can't do like pull pork like pulled pork wouldn't work.

Kathryn Davis 02:28

Do you golf?

David Butler 02:29

Listen, I love golfing. I used to golf with my dad, I used to to golf with my grandfather. I used to just jump on the golf course and golf a couple holes and walk it then I got married and I had $0 and like you feel bad leaving for seven hours at a time and so it kind of got me way out of the habit but I'm so nostalgic for it. I love it. I'm too ADD for it

Kathryn Davis 02:55

Okay, what fictional character would you be best friends with in real life?

David Butler 02:59

Flynn Rider. Do you know from Tangled?

Kathryn Davis 03:02

Yeah, yes, I do know. I love Flynn Rider.

David Butler 03:04

Same we would be such good friends. I already know it. And he's a thief. He's a thief and like this I shouldn't admit this but like one of my like, I would love to be an art thief. I would love to like like I just would love to plan out the like execute the plan.

Kathryn Davis 03:22

The heist? The idea of it? Okay, my last question: What song will you never forget the lyrics to? "Gangsta's Paradise" by Coolio. It came out my freshman year of high school and me and my sister used to listen to every day on the way to seminary. It just warmed up our hearts for worship. All right, that's so good. That's so good. Thank you for making me laugh. So fun. Hey, I actually want to talk to you about Instagram post. One of the many that you posted but this one in particular stood out to me. It was something you posted several months ago. I'll read a portion of it and then can we talk about it? Here it is. "A friend was over the other night one of those friends that knows the code to the front door, my favorite kind. She was talking about some of the heartache that comes from living alone the burden of going home to an empty house night after night for year after year. No one to download the day to. No one to listen or love or lean into. She said in a particularly sad moment, a moment when she needed others she prayed God, can you please send me a clapper? An angel or someone to just be a clapper for me? Someone to celebrate with me, encourage me, someone who can just cheer me on. The second she said it, my mind was made up. I am going to be a clapper." I actually loved that phrase. And there are a couple of things that sound like you learned a little bit more about your friend from what she told you. You learned a little bit more about her heart. What is it about that conversation that triggered that response in you?

David Butler 05:37

I don't know. It's interesting that as you read that, I remember the phrase, I want to be a clapper that I posted about, but I forgotten actually until just right now that that is why I wrote that, you know that it was that conversation that kind of spurred that on. And I don't know, you know, that it's so easy to just see people as numbers today, you know, and just like, especially in that world we live in where you know, Instagram, like you just like, liked by 25 people or whatever. Like, it's really hard to remember that everybody on there as a story and is thinking and feeling something today. And when you drive down the street that like everyone that you pass like is excited about something worried about something scared of some things that just people are so much more complicated than we remember and much more intriguing than we remember. And when you get a chance to get past small talk, and really see into someone's heart... I mean, because she could have easily come over, and we're good friends, and she could have come over and and just talked about the Astros or something, you know, just like normal stuff and never opened up and like, it's hard to particularly to vocalize where you're lacking, or what one of your needs are like, those aren't easy conversations, you know, to have with people. And I think it just that conversation when she opened up and just said like, this is something I want, like I need it in, in my life and just kind of I don't know, it connects you in a really powerful way. Because I might not want that particular thing that she's talking about. But I do know what want is. And I do know what lack is in my, in my own ways. And so I yeah, I can't even remember your question is I'm just kind of going on reliving the experience. I don't even remember.

Kathryn Davis 07:34

Well, I love it. Because it's that response that you had of I want to be a clapper, right? Yeah. And maybe it's the vulnerability she shared with you. And that's hard. Like, that's hard to be vulnerable with someone.

David Butler 07:50

Yeah. And you know what? And maybe I'll just say this, too. When someone's vulnerable, or at least in that particular situation, when she's vulnerable with me, it right away makes me remember and think about my own my own insecurities and my own vulnerabilities, right, where she's just like, this is where I feel forgotten and unseen and heavy. And then you kind of realize when you think to yourself, Oh, I know what forgotten and heavy, feel like? And I was like, oh, yeah, if I'm in a place right now, where I can encourage you, then I'm going to. And it just reminds you that when she walked in the door, she didn't come in mopey. You know, she came in happy, regular self and then the whole situation is reminded me like, oh, a lot of people act like they've got it all put together. And they're managing most people are managing for the most part, right? But but then it just reminded me like there's so many roles I can take in relationship with people. I could be the "fault pointer outer." I could be the you know, the advice giver. There's so many things that could be and maybe people need them. You need someone to be your wing man to point out your blind spots. Sure. You need someone to give you advice and help you and correct you and stuff like that great. But people also need a clapper. People need someone to encourage them.

Kathryn Davis 09:14

And I love that that's the phrase she used. Like I've never thought of that as God sending her a clapper. Yeah, right. And what do you think it means to be a clapper? You talked about encouraging someone but what do you think that looks like?

David Butler 09:29

It's funny that when you say it, images come to mind, right? It would be so fun to know what everyone listening with their image that comes to mind. And mine's like I once ran this 10k. It was so dumb, but it was on a parade route. And the very last stretch of it, the people were already lined up for the parade. And so instead of just sitting there, they just clapped for every runner that came through. And like that's the image that I get of somebody who's just encouraging but also like, I'm going to congratulate what's really good about you. This is what I see that I think you're winning at. This is what I see that is one of your gifts. This is whatever that is, but I love thinking of being a clapper as both an encourager and also as someone who is recognizing and acknowledging the good, you know? Is my form off when I'm running? Yes. Was I panting more than a grown person should like at a 10k? Like, I was like breathing as if I'd run a full marathon. But it was only six miles, you know, but there are a select few people who I think would ask me for advice and correction. And I would give it to them because of the relationship that we have. But that's a very small number of people that I have that particular kind of relationship with. And I think people overstep their bounds too much with that, and I'm like, why not enter into all interactions with people with the trajectory of being a clapper? Why should that not be default?

Kathryn Davis 11:15

And I wonder, David, I wonder if the relationship you have with those select few who actually would want advice from you is because you've been a clapper for them before you ever gave them advice.

David Butler 11:27

Yeah, maybe so. That would be... I think that feels natural. That feels like that would be the order of things, right? Where, oh, even if you do give correction, you're giving it through a lens of encouragement, like because that's the way you see people, that's the way you interact with people is through the color and lens of encouragement and seeing what's good. So everything that you... you know? If you do good, it's a good first layer for everybody.

Kathryn Davis 11:56

Well, and it's so fun. Yeah, right. Like, it's so fun to be a clapper, right.

David Butler 12:02

I think so, too. I mean, so listen, you know that scene in the Book of Mormon, when people are getting baptized, and it says they all clap their hands? Yes. I'm like, where's this? We need more of this happening.

Kathryn Davis 12:15

I know, when we were like, at home church during COVID. I was like, we clap. Like we're gonna we're gonna clap at home church.

David Butler 12:24

100%. Why did you not... Why'd you stop doing that? You should have taken it to like church church.

Kathryn Davis 12:29

I should have, right? I'm going to! I'm going to see what happens. I'll tell you. I'll tell you what happens when I do it. So besides the race, has there been another clapper in your life has gotten sent you a clapper?

David Butler 12:47

Do you know what? I feel like most of my relationships with people are that kind. I think probably because I distance myself a little bit from people who were complainers or fault-finding people. I will be friendly and whatever. But I think I just kind of have... most people that I have a relationship with, we kind of have just a symbiotic like encouraging relationship. I will say this, sometimes I think because a lot of people watch my podcasts and read my books and stuff, they'll be a natural encourager and clapper to me, you know, like give a lot of compliments and, and say a lot of things like that. And so one of the things recently is I started to think, "Are these all sincere?" you know, or people just trying to get nice, because, you know, but then I was like, actually, I'm just gonna let people be nice. Like, I'm just gonna take them and just like, you know, if I'm like, What's your motive is just like to be nice. And I'm like awesome. Like, why would that not be somebody's motive, even strangers? But yeah, I feel like number one, I should say is Jenny, that's my wife. And I've always been a dreamer. And I've always been an idea generator and have a new thing I want to do all the time. And Jenny's always been a clapper for me. Like she's always just that Yeah, go for it. Do it. I think you should. And not only like encourager, but also someone who, and you can't always be this to people, who will help facilitate whatever circumstances are needed for that to happen. She's just like, okay, then if I have to take on an extra heavy load of taking care of the family, so that you can, I will. So not only just like mentally supportive, but also like, okay, let's just do what we need to in order to let this happen. I seriously have so many I really liked that question. Because I'm like going through a list of all these people in my life, and I'm like, I honestly have so many people like that are so encouraging. And so like celebratory that I can share good news with.

Kathryn Davis 15:02

Yeah. And I love that idea of that, like, send me a clapper that God is a clapper and, and I've thought so much about that. And if really we want to be clappers, like the perfect example we have to follow is Jesus Christ. There are so many examples in scriptures of where Jesus Christ is encouraging, and celebrates the good, right? And is there a time in the scriptures or a story that stands out to you where Jesus was a clapper? Or where he was celebratory?

David Butler 15:38

Yeah, one of the ways I can think of right off the bat is I love John chapter one. That's a chapter where people meet Jesus for the very first time, some of them and I love their first interactions with him. And two in particular, standout to me. One is he meets someone whose name is Simon. But on day one gives him a nickname. He sees him in the in the very first meeting, he's just like, I'm actually going to call you Peter from now on, which means the rock. You know, and like that's day one, where he's just like, I see something in you that is remarkable and incredible. And then it's not several verses later that he meets someone named Nathaniel, who walks up to him and they just met. And interestingly, right before they meet, Nathaniel actually says his friend, Philip about Jesus. I feel like he's a country bumpkin. He's from Nazareth, and how could anything good come from there? There's no, there's no way. So he's just been dissing on him, like moments before they've met. And when he meets him, he says, you know, you have got one of the most golden hearts of anyone I've ever met. That's day one. It totally throws him off guard, because he asked like, I'm sorry, do we know each other? Like, wow, how do you know what? Wow. Which which kind of goes to show like a reaction like that shows that their world wasn't very different than ours, that maybe they were used to criticism. Maybe they were used to like snappy comebacks also, because a genuine encouraging compliment, took him off guard. And so maybe even then they were in a drought for clappers also. And Jesus comes in and says, You've got such a good heart and everybody, everyone that he picks is a clapping in and of itself, Matthew, He chooses him to be in his inner circle. And he's just like that, that took him off guard. Nobody would have expected him to pick Matthew for that. And even picking him like he picked him first for the kickball team, like Matthew should have been last kid standing there looking like an idiot to be picked for it. And instead, Jesus takes him first round and says like, Oh, I'd actually pick you to be someone I'd like to spend my time with. To me that is evidence of of someone who's who's a clapper. Yeah, all throughout it all throughout it like if he if he gives time to someone there's this scene when he is stopped with that woman who's on the roadside and and she's hiding off to the side and she reaches out and grabs just the the tassels on his robe and he stops and, and as a conversation with her the very first word he says to her is daughter, daughter. Yeah. And for someone who spent 12 years trying everything, there's no doubt in my mind that she's felt like an outsider and that she's felt forgotten. And in one word, he's like, Oh, no, darlin, you've got daughter status with me. Let's forget all of that. Or what about when the friends lower their buddy down through the roof? They cut open the roof and they lower him down. Yeah, the very first thing he does is it says he saw their faith right the friends faith the friends faith and like he congratulated it you know, I'm just like, I just imagined and saying like, I really love you guys. This is so cool that you're doing this for your friend. I think it's so cool that you opened up the roof to drop him through like you know and then turn whoever owns the house. He's like, Don't worry, I'm going to fit the I'm gonna fit the bill for this but I'll fix this and it's so cool that they did this. I just love that they... Yeah, and listen, I want the film anytime someone has Peter walking on water. That scene to me is like we're missing some dialogue in that scene.

Kathryn Davis 19:51

In what happens there in that story? I agree.

David Butler 19:55

Yes! He's like walking across like in my mind I'm seeing like, "You're doing it Peter!"

Kathryn Davis 20:01

That's what I see. I actually, as you've been telling some of these stories, I love, love the fact that the Savior never compliments on performance. Right? He is looking right into their heart and to who they are. And instead of giving a compliment based on, like what they're doing, he is but it's like they're the faith of the friends or the faith of Peter to walk or the rock or Nathaniel. It's like he's looking right into who they are. And I just remember a time when I was 16. And you know, 16 ish. Yeah, I was 16 ish. And I was having a really bad day at school. And I came home from school and the phone rang from one of my dad's best friends. And I was like, Oh, my dad's not here right now. And my dad's friend said, Hey, no, Kathryn, I am calling to talk to you. And I said, Okay. And he gave me this compliment that had nothing to do with anything I had said or done or looked. It was all about my nature. And for me, that was like the ultimate clapper. Right? Like it changed my whole trajectory... God sees my heart, and not necessarily my behavior. And I think that's something that Jesus was so obviously, so perfect at and so willing to express and I think, how many compliments do I give based on you know, the superficial instead of on the heart? Yeah.

David Butler 21:40

And you know, as you're saying that, I just thought, just that last line, I thought, and he's still really good at it. My two older boys just barely got their patriarchal blessings, not two weeks apart from each other. I sat there and I listened to God encouraging them, and seeing their heart like he's still doing it. Both those boys, he sat them down. And he told them, This is what I see in you. This is who you are, this is why I'm so proud of both of you. Anyways, I just yeah, it was so awesome to sit there. I've never been in anyone else's Patriarchal Blessing besides my own. And so to sit there and hear God encourage these two boys. I just loved it. I loved it.

Kathryn Davis 22:28

And if we can be his hands, if we want to be his hands, then can we encourage in a similar way? Yeah. Can we clap and cheer and support?

David Butler 22:39

Yeah, there's that line, we've already brought up the other ones to mourn with those who mourn and comfort those who stand in need of comfort. But then there's that line that says, and to stand as a witness of God at all times, and all things, and in all places. And it's like, okay, then what would God say in this particular situation? And what would God say to this particular person? And I think the evidence is overwhelming that you would see what's good. And you would say, you know? To be a witness of God, I think is to be a clapper is what that means to me.

Kathryn Davis 23:08

And actually, you wrote, it's quite miraculous how you can give away part of your heart and have the result be more. You describe this as like God's business model that you give away your heart, and He gives you more. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

David Butler 23:24

Yeah, God's economy, God's business model is just upside down. It's not the way that we expect it to work. And it's confusing mathematically, right? Where you're just like, that doesn't make any sense. Right? It should be give this away. He says, lose your life. And then you will find it. And you're actually that doesn't make any sense. Because if I lose my life, that means it's gone. Right? That's... I'm in the red on that one. And his economy is different. It's like, it doesn't make sense. You shouldn't be depleting your resources. But instead, in God's economy, they're multiplied. It's what I call the upside down kingdom, like everything is upside down about it, where you're just like, it should function this way. This is the way most people function and it's like, but not in my kingdom. That's not how things... that's not how things work in mine. When you give that actually multiplies in return, and it's true. It's like true you know? You give of your heart a cost something it costs time and energy and emotion and yet, you would come back from it. Okay, I do some work with humanitarian experience HXP they do humanitarian trips for teenagers. One of the trip leaders who came back said this line at the end of the last year summer, he said, I emptied my heart while I was there, but it came back full. And he was talking about how much he gave to the kids when he was there and how much he gave to the project that they were working on. But then he said, I emptied my heart, but it came back full.

Kathryn Davis 25:07

I love that.

David Butler 25:10

We all want to have a fulfilling meaningful life. And God gives us the pattern for it is just counterintuitive is all. But the pattern is laid out. So simply in Scripture. Give, empty, and you'll find meaning, you'll find fulfillment.

Kathryn Davis 25:33

Yeah, I mean, I love that because I think so often, we live in a scarcity mindset, right? That if somebody has a success or a win, then somehow it's going to take away from our success or our wins, which is untrue. But I think we're so often programmed to think that way, this scarcity.

David Butler 25:54

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, this is the first time I've ever thought of this. And let's see if this plays out. Right or not, I don't know, but exciting. When I was driving this afternoon, I was actually thinking about that. I was like, Why aren't more people encouraging? Why aren't they? And I think that you're right, it's that there is an underlying belief that if I give away too much of this, there's not enough left for me. Or if you're good, it means I'm not, you know? And I'm just like, yeah, where did this come from? And isn't it interesting? In the Garden of Eden from the very beginning that God says to Adam and Eve, "of all of these trees, you may freely eat." That is an abundance mentality, and Satan comes in and points out one, why can't you have that one?

Kathryn Davis 26:46

He points out scarcity, right?

David Butler 26:48

He points out scarcity, and God points out abundance. And maybe that's what he has been like from the very beginning and a critical difference between the way the two of them function and see the world.

Kathryn Davis 27:00

Yeah. So how do you think we can root that out? How can we develop more of an abundance mentality, which I think is a clapper mentality? Right? Yeah, yeah, I would say so. And kind of try and push aside the scarcity.

David Butler 27:19

Two things come to mind. And I'd have to be smarter, you know, to think about this, but one, one of those is would be to notice the abundance all around you. If my experience is abundance, then it's going to affect my thoughts, behaviors, actions, right? What I'm observing and the world around me, and in my relationship with God is abundance, then I think it will shift the way I act and respond. And so I think one of the ways that we do that is to have a practice some sort of deliberate practice of noticing the abundance of God and having personal experience with that, and what I observe.

Kathryn Davis 28:00

So what do you do for that? Do you look for people or notice people? Or do you just take time to recognize the abundance?

David Butler 28:10

Yeah, because I mean, I think people do it a lot of different ways. Right? One of the ways that you see people do it is they'll keep a gratitude journal, or something like that, which sounds so simple, but it's like, wait, I know, I know, I know. But don't let the simplicity of it keep you from from the practice, you know, where you're just say, can't make that big a difference. And it's like, really try it. So I don't want someone to dismiss like the simplicity of or because it sounds cliche, but it's like, you actually have to train your mind to notice what you want it to notice, you know, and, and if anyone needs evidence of this, go buy a car, right. And if you buy a car, and you're looking at Honda Accords, then you're going to notice every Honda Accord on the road that there's ever been, and you didn't notice them yesterday, but you just told your mind, which is a gatekeeper because it can't process everything that it sees what you're interested in your mind processing and noticing. This does sound way more smart than I actually am. But I think you have to, like train your mind to see abundance and to live in that kind of mentality, right? Where it's like, I have to like, actually practice it. It's not the default for me for some reason, or it's not the normal status quo of the culture and world I live in. And so I've actually got to train my mind to do it.

Kathryn Davis 29:35

And maybe one of the ways we can train our mind, I just had this thought about that line that I left my heart empty and now it's full. Maybe one of the ways we can train our minds to have an abundant mindset is by trying to be a clapper more right like if we look for people to clap for and become genuinely a clapper, maybe that can help us be more abundant in our own thinking as well.

David Butler 30:07

Yeah, well, this was the other thing that I was thinking of when I said, notice the abundance around you was if someone realizes that God adores them, and that God is going to pour out on them just simply by the fact of their relationship, and not what they've done because of who they are, because of who they are, that puts you in a place where you are secure. If I think everything is based off of performance, then I'm actually going to want you to perform that and meet it perform better, because there's... but if I like, realize and live my life, accepted, loved and adored by God, I feel like that opens up my ability to do that, because it's like, I actually don't need to be better than you. I don't need you to be worse than me, I can encourage you because I actually believe I'm already adored and loved by God, no matter what. And so I can actually, like push you along on the path because, like, it doesn't take anything away from me, for you to be adored and loved and great. You know, there's something about living loved that is cyclical, it encourages that. Okay. I love that. You know, that phrase that people say where they're like, hurt people hurt people hurt people. Yeah. So the other best could be true loved people is love people.

Kathryn Davis 31:30

I love that. I love that. No, that's so good. Right? Like, it all comes down to understanding our relationship with God and that our divinity and our importance is fixed. And nothing's going to change that, that we don't earn. We don't earn his love.

David Butler 31:51

Well, and if that's one of the ways that he claps for us is through adoration and acceptance and love. That means that like, oh, I someone's doing it for me. And so naturally, I started doing it for others.

Kathryn Davis 32:04

So good. So Dave, what are some ways that we can clap for people?

David Butler 32:10

Okay, one way is, I think to what you just said that I love what your your dad's friend did, I would find a way to give encouragement and compliments and and see the good in people. And then to say it. You know this because you live with teenagers... that encouraging voice is not what they're hearing right? All day long. And and they're hearing a voice of discouragement, and a voice of scarcity and a voice of not enough. Oh, that's interesting, by the way, like that's interesting to link scarcity and not enough together. Because I've never said I'm scarce. But I have said before I'm not enough. Yeah. But if God says you are now all of a sudden, I'm out of the scarcity mentality. Okay, that's cool. That's coming together. That's a really cool thought that kind of connects back to that other one, right, that loved people love. Because if I do feel like I'm enough, that means I'm living in an abundance mindset. Right, right. And so it would have that reaction, but they don't hear it from other people. And they certainly don't hear it from themselves. And so that one practice of encouraging... I mean, you could never do it too much. You could never annoy someone with a multiplicity of compliments, like people don't get tired of something like that. And if you want to do the percentages next to each other, you're probably going to lose every time because of the voices that they're hearing. You know, I think it's one of the reasons that the Lord instituted the sacrament on a weekly basis. Because that ordinance is a gigantic "I love you" is what it is. It's a reenactment of the crucifixion. And it says, This is what you're worth, to me, this is how valuable I think you are, this is how far I would be willing to go for someone like you. So every week, there is a recentering on what the story actually is, who God actually believes that you are. And so I just I think one of the reasons that the seminary program was instituted was for this very thing, right? Because High School is the time when it is so easy to forget it so easy to forget what God feels about you and what you're worth, because you get your worth and value from a million other things all throughout the day. And so some genius said these kids need to be reminded way more often. Let's gather them together. And let's do that. And if I had one wish, from any of my kids, seminary teachers, teachers, friends, it would be like Please encourage and love them, please see them the way God sees them. I watched those two boys of mine walk out of that patriarch's house, not even touching the ground. They were floating out of that place because of what had been said to them. And on that day, the patriarch was God's voice to them. But any of us can be it for people on any other day.

Kathryn Davis 35:26

That's so important to remember. Because there really are 1000s of voices a day telling them that they're not enough.

David Butler 35:35

Right? And subconsciously, yeah, like the whole marketing, advertising industry. Everything is built on the you don't have enough. I don't want to say the word prey, because I don't want all like marketing and advertising people to feel like predators here or something like that. Or like vultures. Like, they definitely like take advantage of the fact that people feel like they're missing something in their life.

Kathryn Davis 35:59

Yeah, and I don't think we could ever give enough compliments to our youth. Yeah, I don't think we could ever say enough, do enough to even begin to combat that. But the fact that they can come to a place hopefully in seminary, that's the reason why I feel like I need to teach seminary not because I want a job. Yeah, but because I feel like I need to love them. Yeah, they all need a clapper. They all need a clapper. And we all need clappers maybe in unexpected places. Yeah. Right. Yeah, there was kind of a comment on that post from one of your followers. And she talked about a clapper that came to her in an unexpected place. I don't know if you can remember. But one of your followers said that she was asked to play the music in relief society, and she's not a great pianist. And so she practiced and practiced and practiced and then would mess up and play with one hand and cry and leave. And the third or fourth time she got up to play the piano in Relief Society, somebody yelled at her, "You've got this. Emily! We're here for you!" She talked about the importance of a clapper in an unexpected place. And I want to be that person. I want to be a clapper and maybe in an unexpected place and an unexpected time. Yeah, like even President Eyring shared a message in general conference, this last General Conference, titled A legacy of encouragement. And so Dave, what do you want your legacy of encouragement to be?

David Butler 37:45

Oh, I was just gonna say just that line by itself is like, right. Like, I would use this phrase, I want to leave a legacy of encouragement. You know, that is what I would hope happened. And I don't know if it will happen accidentally. And so I love the idea of you asking the question, okay, then what can I do about this? You know, I see the problem. Now stand up and be the solution. I've felt the problem. So I have plenty of motivation. We talked about how much like a high school kid needs encouragement. And I'm like, it takes longer than out of high school for for someone to really realize who they are. I mean, it's fascinating to me that when Jesus is in the wilderness, that the adversary is having him question his identity. If you really were God's Son, would he leave you without? If you really were his daughter, would things look like this? Or wouldn't they be better? You know, the "if," yes, yes. And it's fascinating to me that Jesus is 30 years old here, and is still tempted with his identity. So it's not a 16 year old problem. It's something that we struggle with for a long time. And I think Jesus gives the advice there, which is so interesting. He says, man cannot live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, and those words are encouraging words. And those words are words that emphasize and reinforce what's good about you. In fact, the most recent words that Jesus has heard at this point in the story is when he was standing in the River Jordan, and God says, This is my son. I claim him, I know him, I love him, and I'm so proud of him. Like, that's what the Father said to him. I think Jesus says, live by every word that comes out of God's mouth. And I love that those were the most recent words that he heard out of God's mouth. And he's like, do you want to make it through the desert, spend more time in the river, spend more time hearing those words. And I would just like to say that you and I live in a in a desert have that kind of language and that kind of talk. And I think why should we not be that voice? Why Can't We?

Kathryn Davis 40:30

And let's do it. Let's be, let's be those voices. Yeah, right. I just... that idea of a legacy of encouragement. And, you know, we talked about this with my mom passing away like a week ago, right, but that's who she was for me, is always encouraging and always believed in me, and always celebrated, every win and every failure, and there's a void now of not having that. And so I still need that. You know what I mean? Like, it's not just teenagers, I still need somebody to to be my clapper. Yeah, and be somebody to encourage me like that. And if I need that I know so many people do.

David Butler 41:17

Right, right. And you know, what is so powerful is to me? I think the things that your mom said to you throughout all those years will come back to your mind,]. You'll hear her voice for the rest of your days. And we have a theology of angels. We have a theology of that. And I think you'll recognize her when she speaks to you, because you're so familiar with that encouraging voice, you know? And what a compliment to your mother that you could say today, "Oh, I recognize that voice. Because it's the same one that I heard every morning before I went to school. I know that voice, the same one I heard on the on the other end of the phone, on some of my harder days, like, that's been the consistent voice." And so when it comes again, you'll recognize it. And that is to me a legacy of encouragement. I feel like we do the same thing with God. When I read how he speaks to people in Scripture, it helps me recognize him more clearly, today, you know? And if the voice is I can't believe you did that. You should be ashamed of yourself. Like that's not God's voice. That's not what it sounds like. But when I hear this, "you're okay, you can do this." You know, that kind of voice is like, I know that voice. I've heard that voice before. And I recognize it for what it is. And so, man, what a compliment. I've done my job if the kids leave this house, and can lead the rest of their lives knowing they can always listen for that voice from me.

Kathryn Davis 43:13

And can we listen? For that voice from God.

David Butler 43:19

Yeah, right. Yeah, Nephi gives that phrase Angel speak by the power of the Holy Ghost. Right? And isn't that interesting that it's like, oh, when they speak, you actually won't be able to differentiate, whether it's the Godhead speaking, or an angel speaking. And I would like to live a life like that, where the words I speak to you, if I were to text them out to you, you would not be able to differentiate whether God said it, or whether David Butler said it. And that's the kind of legacy I'd like to leave.

Kathryn Davis 43:56

It's beautiful. Dave, we've talked about so many little takeaways, and there's so many thoughts running through my mind. But every episode, we like to leave our viewers with one small or simple idea or action that they can implement over the week. So if you were to choose one small thing that we could do to be a clapper, what would your suggestion be?

David Butler 44:25

I want to give more than one. So this is something I haven't thought of much until just right this second and it would be this: I think I would start by speaking kinder, and being more encouraging and more uplifting to yourself. Start there, start to like, push against that scarcity mentality and not enough mindset in you. And then I think you'll be in a place where you can begin to do that so much better for other people Of all the things I think you can do, which I think there's a lot, to like get out of scarcity and into abundance but this is what we've been talking... I've just thought I think my biggest scarcity mentality happens with myself the way I see myself and so if I can love imperfect me if I can see what's good inside myself, I think that will shift the ability to be able to see it more clearly and be more comfortable pouring it out and giving it to others.

Kathryn Davis 45:33

You are awesome.

David Butler 45:35

Oh, well, thank you clapper.

Kathryn Davis 45:39

That's my new mantra. I'm gonna I'm a pretty good clapper with like, my kids and sporting events and stuff, but yeah, I'm gonna take that into every aspect to be a clapper. Yeah, same love it. It was so fun to have you here today, Dave. And if you want to hear more thoughts from Dave, you can follow him on Instagram at Mr. Dave Butler. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at magnify community. And of course, subscribe and listen to the Magnify podcast wherever you get your shows. Thanks for being here, and let's meet up again next week.

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