God is Our Guide in Parenting with Shawni Pothier and Saren Loosli

Elder Uchtdorf 00:00

There's something equally sacred, something irreplaceable, about a parent nurturing a child. It reflects the pattern of heaven.

Kathryn Davis 00:14

Hi, and welcome to magnify an LDS Living podcast where we cheer inspire and embolden each other as women and followers of Jesus Christ, we hope to use our influence to make a difference in the world. I'm your host, Kathryn Davis, a mom, a seminary teacher and a grilling enthusiast who loves God. The call to parent in this life is one that elder oaknorth said reflects the pattern of Heaven. The opportunity to help raise the rising generation, both as parents and as leaders can be a privilege and a responsibility. As a mother, I believe what Elder Uchtdorf taught, which is that Jesus Christ can be our strength, and our guide as we try to parent and teach like him. Today, I'm here with two sisters, Saren and Loosli and Shawni Pothier, we are talking about this message and how our small and simple efforts as parents and leaders can be magnified by the Lord. But before we dive into this talk, I have some rapid fire questions to ask you guys so our viewers can get to know you a little bit better. You Ready? Ready? Okay. Okay, you two are sisters, and you have two other sisters. So as a family with a lot of sisters, what has been your favorite part of the way your relationship has grown in the adult years of your relationships?

Saren Loosli 01:28

Wow, I'll start. I think that as we've become mothers and have had to share that experience, we've had to lean on each other in a lot of different ways. And we've learned so much from each other. And as we've seen our kids become good friends, we have this awesome opportunity that our parents provide for us to be together at Bear Lake for like a bunch of time every summer. And having that time to kind of mother together in the same place, I think has really been a building opportunity for us in our relationships. I also think we've lived apart all most of the time, we haven't lived near each other. And I do think that it's been really cool to see how being apart from each other has actually brought us closer because we like visit each other. We make it a big, big priority and spend like good chunks of time with each other, which I think really helps also, Shawni, what would you say?

Shawni Pothier 02:15

I don't know. I just think it's really funny because I just remember being so we're Saren and I are the oldest of nine children. And our next sister is kind of in the middle. And then our next sister is the baby after four boys in a row. And I just remember thinking those little sisters were so annoying and so little. And now we're all just peers in this motherhood arena. And it's pretty awesome to be able to learn so much from them, these little baby sisters that are so awesome. And then Saren has always just lead the way for me as my older sister, so.

Saren Loosli 02:46

Yeah, but you had kids first. So you kind of got to lead the way for me for a while. So kind of fun how that works out sometimes.

Shawni Pothier 02:52

Yeah.

Kathryn Davis 02:54

And I know you guys started a podcast with all your sisters. It's called in their arena with the iron sisters. Tell me why you've called it that?

Shawni Pothier 03:03

Well, we just feel like we're kind of we as kids, we memorized that famous quote by Theodore Roosevelt, about the man who's in the arena marred by sweat and blood and dust and how important it is to be in that arena. And we just thought as we started into this podcast, that that's really what we're talking about is being in that arena, on a daily basis as we're trying to not only parent but just try to be better disciples of Jesus Christ. And it's so important to remember that we are going to fail. And we are going to come up short over and over again. But the point is that we are in there in the arena just trying our best.

Kathryn Davis 03:41

So between all of the siblings, how many kids do you have? And what is your favorite family tradition to do with everyone?

Saren Loosli 03:53

Okay, I hope I'm getting this right. I think it's 35. Is that right, Shawni? I think it is? Yeah, I think so. I think we would know that. And I think that might be that might be the end of the grandkids now. But we're not totally sure. There could be surprises coming along. So yeah, there's a huge range. The youngest one is Simon still one. I think he's still one. And then the oldest is Max who's 25. Now right, Shawni? Yeah, so we've got a good range of kids. And they all love each other so so much. And I think the thing that really Bond's us, I mentioned this before, but just being at Bear Lake and having that standard thing every summer, we have like a five day reunion. And people come for as much of that as they can. But then also we have this place at Bear Lake that we can come to for the reunion and stay at after the reunion. And it's been such a wonderful bonding experience with all the kids learning to waterski together and playing in the water together and the little babies just crawling around in the sand and the super shallow water while all the moms and dads get a chance to talk and it's just become something that everyone looks forward to all year even all the adult grandkids just make it Every effort to be there, and it's just kind of our I think having a place really helps a lot.

Kathryn Davis 05:05

Ours is Lake Tahoe, we go there every summer. And have it is it's this grounding place where our kids get to play together and know each other in ways that I think can only be found that way.

Shawni Pothier 05:21

And just for those who are listening, and who think, Oh, we don't have a place, and maybe we're not good that we were doomed, you're not doomed, because my husband's family also has nine kids in their family. And they are so close, and they don't have a specific place. They just make sure they get together as much as they can. So I think you can do it in so many different ways.

Kathryn Davis 05:39

It's the effort, right? And I like how you guys even said that you don't even live near each other, but you make the effort to connect, whether that's calling or visiting or whatever that looks like. Relationships are built around effort.

Shawni Pothier 05:56

Sure, exactly.

Kathryn Davis 05:57

Okay. Well, you guys, I'm really excited to talk with you both about Elder Uchtdorf's talk. Jesus Christ is the strength of parents. And I know that both of you said this talk stood out to you. And it was something that's been on your mind for a while. So tell me about why this talk stood out to you.

Shawni Pothier 06:19

Sarin, you want to go first?

Saren Loosli 06:21

Sure, we're both ready to talk and be being sisters, as we often have the same thoughts at the same time. But anyway, I think it stood out to me, because partially, we have been so focused on parenting and our parenting experience with our wonderful parents who we appreciate so much. And on the parenting that we're doing ourselves, partially because of this podcast that you just asked us about. And I think that that I'm especially in tune with what's happening with parenting and families. And I get so excited every time when there's something that comes up in conference around parenting and families. And I think I was especially drawn to this talk, because it really lays out so many beautiful, simple truths in such a nice ordered way. And it just really spoke to me.

Shawni Pothier 07:08

And to me, too, I think I'm the same way everything that speaks about parenting, I just wanted to be a mom from the time I was a little kid. And so when I hear something like this, I just think how beautiful is it that he starts at the very beginning and says nothing isn't as important as nurturing your child. And, and and not only just nurturing your child, but the power of nurturing whether it's with your children or with your friends, or whether it's through ministering or Jesus's main thing that he told us is Feed my sheep. And I love to think about all the many, many ways we can feed His sheep and the sheep are our children to be able to connect with God, that he's the strength of that parenting is such a powerful thought.

Kathryn Davis 07:50

Yeah, it is. And he even said, and this is where I think there's something so powerful and even sacred, about the idea that as parents, we are reflecting a divine pattern of heaven. And that's what Elder Uchtdorf said, this divine pattern of heaven. And I want to know, what have you learned about the love your heavenly parents have for you from the pattern established here on earth?

Saren Loosli 08:15

Well, I think a huge part of it is I love what elder Uchtdorf said about how, how much trust our heavenly parents had in us to send us these precious, amazing, challenging little individuals to raise. I love that he loves us enough and trusted us enough to send these children to us. So that in itself is an act of love and trust. And I think that offers us a pattern of how we need to work with our own kids, especially as Shawni and I have kids that are mostly all grown up. They're all almost adults at this point. And it's so important that we recognize that we trust them, and that we love them in a trusting way, especially as they get older. So I love that, that that pattern of what you know, started this whole journey of parenthood for each of us came from these loving heavenly parents, who decided to trust us and love us enough to give us this job.

Kathryn Davis 09:07

Yeah. And he even says that he says, Have you ever thought about the tremendous risk our Father in Heaven takes each time he sends a child to Earth. These are his spirit sons and daughters, they have limitless potential. They are destined to become glorious beings of goodness, grace and truth. And they came to Earth completely helpless, barely able to do anything besides cry for help. So that is an enormous amount of trust he gives to us. So I want to ask you kind of as you just said, you've had to learn to trust your children. How have you done that? Like have you had an experience where you've had to trust them?

Shawni Pothier 09:45

Well, I think it starts when they're younger. And I think it's really through trial and error. I think I just love that. He says these kids have limitless potential and you think about these kids in your life, especially when they're younger and they're having a tantrum or they're at the grocery store causing all kinds of chaos or they're doing something at school that's crazy. It just it, it's hard to see that limitless potential that he's talking about. But I remember one time when my daughter was younger, and she just had an awful day, she was just throwing tantrums and doing all kinds of mayhem in our house. And I remember coming home and just being so frustrated as a parent, just wondering, What am I doing wrong? And, you know, you always tend to blame yourself. But I love that I found after she went to bed, I found this little piece of paper, with all these things written down, about things that she's trying to do to be better. And this is before she even got in trouble. And before she had a bad day, but just to realize, I mean, it was a beautiful drawing of a lion. She loves lions, because of Aslan, and Narnia. And he's a symbol of Christ for it to her. And she just wrote the most beautiful things about the things that she's trying to do. And just little moments like that just make you realize, okay, I can trust that you are trying your very best. And it gets you know, those things get more important as they get older, those choices and things that you need to trust them in. But I think just layer upon layer, we can learn to trust them a little bit more, and show them that we know that they're, they're doing their best to try to make some good decisions.

Saren Loosli 11:11

I would second that. And I think that so much of trust has to do with I guess, being optimistic about their possibilities, seeing who they really are recognizing their potential, and pointing out their potential to them. I think the more that we celebrate, like I see this in you, I see that you are amazing. I have a son that's doing sales right now. And I just had a chance to have dinner with him last night, and we sat down and talked. And I just love that chance to just say, look at all the amazing things that you're doing. I'm just, I can't believe you can do this. I'm so impressed with you. And I see your potential, the way that you connect with people and the way that you do this, and that and the other. And just for me to show him that I see him. I see his potential. I trust him. He's about to take off on this wild adventure, opening up a new office for their company in Dallas. And it's hard. It's crazy stuff. And there's a big part of me as a mom, that's like, Are you sure? Do you really know what you're doing? Does this company really know what they're doing? Like, this is a big leap of faith, you're taking time off of college? And does this all make sense. But to be able to just sit back and just think I see you. I trust you. You know yourself, I see that you're amazing. And that builds our relationships so much more than me saying, Are you sure you know what you're doing? Right?

Shawni Pothier 12:27

Yeah. And just to add on that, I think one of my favorite examples of parents trusting their kids is our parents. To me, personally, I'm a little biased, but they are kind of parenting experts. They run a lot of parenting books. And I remember when I had younger kids, I just kept asking them for advice, like, tell me what how to do this or tell me what I should do in this situation, just wanting their wisdom and their advice. And the best thing they ever said to me is, oh, Shawni, you're doing this so much better than we ever did. And there's something about that, that is just so beautiful from a parent, to just trust that I was figuring it, even if I didn't know it all, because I didn't. They trusted that I would be able to figure it out. And I just felt so empowered with that. And I just think that's such a good example for me as my kids grow, to just tell them, just like what Saren was saying, just see them and say you're doing it, you're doing awesome.

Kathryn Davis 13:22

Well, if that's following the divine pattern, right? I think that's what Heavenly Father has done with us. He, he trusts us, and we're going to make mistakes, and we're not going to be perfect at it. But he trusts us. And I think in turn, we have to trust him. Yes. And we have to trust that he will be our guide in parenting. And I think sometimes that's maybe where we don't always focus on is that he will be our guide, I think we can easily forget it. And as we are trying to bring others to the Savior and take on that role, I think we sometimes need to be reminded, and this is an elder Uchtdorf says that, "the Lord loves us. He is with us. He stands beside us and He is our strength in guiding our children to make righteous choices." And so how does that idea that he will be our guide in all of our efforts bring you peace? Or how does that give you strength?

Saren Loosli 14:24

Well, I know that I am often guilty of I think all of us are guilty sometimes as parents feeling like, I have to do all this, especially as moms like I've got to feed them and I've got to get them where they need to be. And I've got to teach them this and I've got to do all these kinds of things. And we get so caught up in like we're centerstage as parent that sometimes I think it's easy to forget that like they're not actually our children. They belong to our heavenly parents, and our heavenly parents very much want to help. And I remember one time that that really hit home for me it was I had five kids in five years there. There was a lot of preschoolers going on there for a while. I remember are just feeling so overwhelmed that like one of them. They were very, very active young children, Shawni could attest to this, they're always into everything and always jumping off the slide when you're supposed to slide down the slide. Always just doing, you know, crazy, crazy stuff. And I just remember feeling just constant anxiety and stress, just taking them anywhere. And one day, just praying my guts out and just saying Heavenly Father, I just, I just need to be able to go places with my kids. And they're just so many of them. And they're so crazy, and they're gonna get hurt. And I just remember having this beautiful, peaceful feeling come to me saying, Do you not know that they're my children too? I'm right here. I'm always right here. I'm helping. I'm watching. I'll help you. It'll be okay. And that beautiful sense of peace just really helped me with all those little toddlers and helps me as I move forward, when I can remember that he is right there. And he wants to help us and he wants to guide us. And we just don't open the door and ask enough, right? It's so easy to just be in the moment like, what do I say to this child that's struggling? And how do I do this? And when we just take that moment to just pour our hearts out and ask for help. The help is always there. There's never been a time that I come away thinking, Well, that was useless. Nobody helped me. I always come away with a sense that like, well, sometimes it's seeing through glass darkly. Sometimes it's not right away. But I always get this sense of peace that basically, our Heavenly Parents are right there beside us. And they are not going to leave us comfortless. And they are not going to leave our kids comfortless. They're going to point out the way but we have to ask.

Kathryn Davis 16:36

So has there been a time where you have specifically asked and have you felt guided and prompted?

Saren Loosli 16:45

Oh, definitely, there's been a lot of different times. Especially with I have a couple of kids that have gone through some really rough patches. So when your children are really struggling you your mother heart just aches and you really, really struggle. And so I can think of a couple of different incidences when you know, I had a child, especially in high school that just was unhappy, and just trying to drag everyone else through his unhappiness. And I just remember praying and praying and praying and just saying, Please, Heavenly Father, I don't know what it is. But he needs something because he is just not okay. And he's not me, you know, we're at the point where we are almost like, maybe he needs to live with someone else for a while, like, just really a really rough place. And I remember just kind of being guided even what to pray for. I started praying with all my heart that he could have a friend, a new friend, or someone in his life, who could help him because I wanted to be that person. But I knew it needed to be someone different. Sometimes kids, their parents can love them with all their hearts. But sometimes they need that other influence that will make a difference. And you know, within a month of just wish it could be overnight. But it was a whole month of just praying and fasting and praying and fasting. And he met this amazing young lady who became his girlfriend and is now his wife. And she changed his life. And I know that prayer had a lot to do with that. And I think that when we do turn to the Lord is sometimes he'll even give us the right questions to be asking. So that we can, you know, help our kids in the ways that they should be helped. Woah, getting a lot more emotional about this than I would think.

Shawni Pothier 18:24

But Saren, and I think it's so beautiful what you're sharing, because I feel because I was going to ask the question, how do we recognize that power in our lives? How? Because it's so easy for us to say, Oh, yes, they're beside us there. But I love that you were opening your heart to that, and that you were praying with all your might. And I just think that's how you you're you are aware enough. And you were looking for that? That guidance. You know what I mean? Like, I think sometimes we can go through life. And we just think, Oh, I'm doing this all on my own or I'm failing all on my own. But we're really, if we just open ourselves to that knowledge that he is there. And he does say sometimes you've got this, you got it or he'll put people in their past when he hears our prayers, and I just love that you were looking for that. And you notice those miracles. I think we need to do that a lot more as parents.

Kathryn Davis 19:16

So Shawni, when have you experienced divine guidance?

Shawni Pothier 19:20

Oh, that's that's a big one. And I think it is another thing that's really important to recognize. But the one thing that comes to my mind is that we have a daughter, our youngest daughter has special needs. We didn't know it at the time. She was just really developmentally delayed. She was probably one and a half she just kept has not hitting on any of these milestones. And there was a time when nights that geneticists had told us what he thought that syndrome might be a syndrome that causes vision loss, and some things happen. And I just knew there was something I just knew that she had this syndrome. And I remember being in the car with all of our kids driving away from my in laws house and everything was in slow motion, you know, those times when everything's just kind of in slow motion and you just don't know what to do, and you're just ready to just fall apart, my husband had to drop me off at a different place where we had parked another car. And so he dropped me off by myself. And I was just ready to just fall apart, and I got in that car, because I didn't have anyone around me and I could actually just let go. And I have never felt so much love from God, I felt almost like I was just being carried. And I couldn't even cry, like, I just felt so comforted, like, this is going to be okay. This is my daughter, and it's going to be okay, I'm going to help you through this, you know, I just felt that through to my bones. And it was just such a beautiful experience. And you know, it is okay, because it's really, sometimes it doesn't seem like it's okay. But when you think about it, and because she is losing her vision, and it's hard and emotional. But when you think about it, then in the eternal perspective, it's just such a beautiful lesson to be learned as parents that it is, it is going to be okay in his perspective. And things are going to all work out. That's kind of a big realization that I had, there's so many little ones Don't you guys think with with kids, there's just little ones all the time, that if we recognize it, we can remember that God is there every step of the way.

Kathryn Davis 21:13

And I think that's the key is recognizing it. But even if we don't, it doesn't mean that God's not there, like, don't recognize it, it doesn't mean that he has left or he's still not influencing. And he's still not putting people in my children's lives. And just to be able to know that he is actively engaged in the very details of their lives. And I think I, when I step back and look at that, I can see that as a parent, I can see his hand in all things. And I have a son who's getting ready to leave on a mission in about two months. And I know that the reason why he is is because of divine guidance, because Heavenly Father has led and guided and directed me and everyone else involved in his life. It's a it's a miracle to see him and to understand that God is in charge. And I think that sometimes as a parent, right, we can feel so inadequate. And we can think, oh, I don't even know what to do. And I'm not qualified for this. And I remember one night feeling really inadequate. And I was up really late worrying about some of my children and some of their choices. And I remember feeling so distinctly Kathryn, I am not worried about them. Why are you? And I just thought, okay, they're his children, and he has got them and I think just like he placed his trust in us, can we place trust in Him?

Shawni Pothier 22:49

I love that. And I love that he probably didn't just one night, just think oh, I'm gonna go on a mission. It was the other elder Uchtdorf talks about how there's just like a little drop of water isn't going to really nourish a flower to grow to its full capacity, but lots of little drops of water are going to nourish that flower as it needs to be nourished. And I just love thinking about your son. And anyone really going on a mission these days that the all the little things that go into that. All the teachers, all the seminary lessons, all the prayers with their family, all the parents just saying you've got this, this is gonna be okay. You know, the all those little drops of water that create those big miracles that sometimes we don't recognize until we look back on them. I love our sister Sadie always says, You have to look back and it becomes a glistening hole. And sometimes you just can't see that glistening, glistening hole when you're in the middle of it. But looking back, you can realize, oh, there was God's hand.

Kathryn Davis 23:45

Well, isn't that kind of what elder Uchtdorf says what you were saying is that it can sometimes feel like our efforts might not be doing much. But then he says this at times, it may feel that you're not accomplishing much. And I don't know about you, but I feel like that me all the time. Sometimes I'm like, what's even the point? Because right there, this isn't making a difference. Absolutely. But then he goes on to say remember that by small means the Lord can bring about great things. One home evening, one gospel conversation or one good example may not change your child's life in a moment any more than one drop of rain causes a plant immediately to grow. But the consistency of small and simple things day after day, nourishes your children much better than an occasional flooding. Exactly. Love it. So what do you guys think about those like small and simple things? What does consistency look like for you?

Saren Loosli 24:41

I mean, really, that's what it's all about. It's the little things that actually add up to ever be anything big. There's nothing big without little things right. And I you know, something that I think is the daily practices that do make a big difference. We talk a lot in the church about making sure that we do prayers and we do scripture study and those things are wonderful, so important, but I There's a lot more to that I mean, something that's made a huge difference in, in my life is making sure that I do a 10 second hugs, when the kids walk in the door, I try to just drop whatever I'm doing and just say I'm so happy to see you, and give them a big hug. And sometimes they're not thrilled about that, but they put up with it. Some of them love hugs more than others. But you know, it's like, I love taking one of those kids, especially your big teenage boys, you know, into your arms, and they're like bigger than you are. And you just hold on to them. And like they kind of relax after a couple seconds, it takes a few seconds for them to relax into the hug. And then it's such a beautiful feeling to just have that little connection. I also just love one thing that I started doing when my kids were little, and I've really worked hard to do, I can't say I'm perfect at it. But I work hard to do it most nights is as they go to bed, even my teenagers, I like to just go and sit with them. And just kind of you know, say, Hey, I'm going to bed now you're going to bed now, goodnight. And I just wanted to tell you, I noticed today that you were really kind to your sister when she was worried about that thing. And I just appreciate that. Or I saw today that you got your homework done like a lot earlier than midnight, which has been happening a lot lately, or just whatever I just I call it tuck in compliments. And I don't know if they even know that I have this little thing that I'm doing. I don't try to make it too, like obvious. But I feel like just those little moments of connection where they feel seen can make a huge, huge difference in my relationship with them. And it changes how I view them throughout the day because I am looking for something. And there are some days that I have to look hard for something that I can tell them as I tuck them in at night. And I think it's just really been a huge builder in our relationships to be able to do that. And it makes me feel at the end of even a really rough day where there have been fights. And there's been disagreements and they haven't done what I wanted them to do. And I didn't do what they wanted me to do to end that with that beautiful little note, it's it's really changed the feeling in our home. So it is those little things, everyone comes up with their different little practices that work for them. But it's those little drops of those little relationship building activities. And really, it's all about love, right? It's expressing that love one drop at a time, that makes us be able to have the influence we need to have. That gives us the knowledge of our children that we need to have in order to help raise them help them be all that they can be. But it does come one small drop at a time and everybody's drops are going to look a little different.

Shawni Pothier 27:22

And I love the elder Uchtdorf said on that same note, he said another strength you have as a parent is a daily influence. And that's exactly what you're saying Saren is just that daily influence. It's almost like our superpower and he says, no one else has this, you are the most constant and steady influence in your child's life. And so just to work those little things into their day, I just think that's so beautiful. Because of that daily, we get them daily.

Kathryn Davis 27:46

So Shawni for you, what's something that you try and incorporate your focus on?

Shawni Pothier 27:51

I'm trying to think of we really tried to do family dinner now we have one child left at home. So it's feels weird to even, it's just very different. But through the years that is one thing that we really tried to do is family dinner, even with the sports and all that kind of stuff, just trying to sit at the table and having a chance to connect. And when we did that, constantly, we had happies and sads. And everyone would talk about their happies from the day and their sads. From the day, our daughter, Lucy now will still remind us we need to talk about happies and sets, because it's something that connects a little bit more each day. And we can find out what is going on and what what might you be worried about. And I think that's been a really powerful thing. Another thing that I think maybe, that I love so much is that we just do family huddles, our family did this growing up. But anytime someone is going out the door, or we're going on a trip or we're going you know, even just out the door to school, we'll just put our arms around each other and have our family prayer in a huddle. I just think there's a beautiful way to connect that way not only physically but spiritually. And also when our kids have tests and things they're worried about at school, my youngest reminds me of this the most, but I set an alarm for when she has a test. So I remember to pray for her. I think that really means a lot to her. And it's meant a lot to the other kids too, growing up.

Saren Loosli 29:06

I second it on the huddles, we do that in our family. And it makes a huge difference. And we have a son who's not active in the church right now. But when he's at home and someone's going out the door, he will join in that huddle. And it's just a beautiful thing to be able to have, you know, just a few moments of that spiritual connection together, even though he's not particularly interested in it other times. So just having that chance to, to feel feel like not only are we together and we're hugging each other, but we're also bringing God into the equation. I just love those little moments of connection.

Kathryn Davis 29:38

Okay, so here's my question. And I actually want to kind of ask this in two ways. So first of all, what if you feel like you've totally messed up? What if like, you're a mom, and maybe even your kids are grown or they're young, and you're like, I haven't done any of that. I didn't do a huddle. I didn't do family home evenings we didn't and you just feel like You've messed up and you've lost the chance or the opportunity?

Saren Loosli 30:03

I would say, first of all, it's never too late. And all of us love our children each in our own way. And I'm always hearing about ideas of cool things other people have done. And I'm like, Oh, my kids are all grown up now. And I can't go back and do that. But I can find the things that work now. And I think that's all that really matters. That's what the Atonement is all about. Right? Is just keeping on keeping on. And recognizing that we make mistakes. I love that this little quote from elder Uchtdorf, he said, "as you open your heart to the Savior and His teachings, he will show you your weakness. If you trust Jesus Christ with a humble heart, He will make weak things become strong." And I think as we humble ourselves and recognize, like, I could have done better on that, but you know what I did the best I could at the time. But I am sad that I didn't think of that. And I'm sad that such and such didn't work out the way that I wish it had worked out. When I look back, we can recognize our own weaknesses, and we can turn to the Lord. That's what our purpose on earth is, is to try to make those weak places strong. And I don't think there's anything we do in this life that shows us our weaknesses better than parenting does. So, it is an awesome opportunity to recognize our weaknesses, our kids are really good at pointing them out, and we see them in ourselves. But as we recognize those weaknesses and turn to the Lord, I think we really do start to see how we can receive strength, we can see little things that we can do differently are more or less. And we can start to feel a sense of progress. No matter where we are on the continuum. No matter how old our kids are. If we want to know some ways that we can show love for our kids better. Or we can show our face to our kids better. The Lord will give us ideas.

Kathryn Davis 31:49

Right, like what we talked about before that he's there to always give us inspiration, we just need to ask, right? He's our guide.

Shawni Pothier 31:56

Exactly. And I love the quote, This is my favorite quote. So any moms out there listening who feel like they failed, and then got it wrong. My favorite quote is, Oh, God of second chances. Here I am again. And I just think God has given us multiple, multiple chances. Second Chances even in parenting, even if our kids are grown, we, we can mend relationships, we can build bridges, and we see all these perfect things, or we hear even just a little little thing that we think makes someone seem like they're perfect. I love the elder Uchtdorf said he painted that picture of the perfect family. And they have family how we mean they do all this stuff, they, you know, have a huddle, or whatever they is. And he said My best advice to you is relax. And I just think that's so beautiful. Remember, God is a God of second chances. And here we are, again, we just need to keep trying keep getting in that arena. And keep letting our face get marred with blood and sweat and dust and just keep trying.

Saren Loosli 32:52

And I a huge part of that can sometimes be apologizing to our kids. I feel like some of my most tender moments I've had with my kids were when I sat down with them and said, hey, you know what? I didn't handle that well. I had not slept, you pushed all my buttons right after someone else had pushed a bunch of buttons. Like, you know, certainly there's reasons why that happened. But I was wrong. I should not have done that. And I'm really, really sorry. How can I make it up to you? How can we fix this? What can I do better? Those kinds of questions, I think, as we can humble ourselves as parents, and let our kids see our humanity and let them see how hard we're trying and how we recognize that we're failing sometimes. And how, you know, I often with some of my older kids, I said, You know what, I am sorry that I was so worried about such and such when you were little, I was probably way overboard on that. I'm sorry that I put you through that. It made sense to me at the time. But that was dumb. And then we can like laugh about it. But some of the most beautiful moments we can have as parents and some of the most beautiful growing experiences for ourselves is when we can humble ourselves apologize, recognize our failings and move forward sometimes with input and help from our kids, so that we can recognize where we're getting things wrong, because they know and they can help us sometimes.

Kathryn Davis 34:13

So you both touched on this, but I want to dig a little deeper because I think there's a lot of people out there who feel like their relationships with their children, especially adult children and teens, are not where they want it to be that there's some hurt and there's some distance there or relationships with their parents that aren't great relationships. And so how do you see the Savior influencing and helping us with those maybe relationships that have been frayed or damaged?

Saren Loosli 34:49

I think it comes back to I mean, it's back to this refrain that we keep bringing up it's all about love. It's all about love, and how love looks for each of us. is different. But in those relationships that are really hard, figuring out, what can I do to love more? What can I do to love better? My mom always said, growing up, the only person you can ever change is yourself. Because we would always be complaining about each other about friends or whatever. But that is absolutely the truth. If we can just recognize what is something I can change in myself, how can I love more and love better? I think, you know, it's not going to change anything overnight. It's that's not how it works. And God is not a vending machine, we can just put in a certain amount of effort, and then, you know, a wonderful relationship comes out. But the more that we examine what we're doing, and figure out how we can love more and love better, we will see changes, even if those changes are only in our own heart. And we are able to feel a better feeling towards that family member, it's going to make a big difference for us, and eventually, probably for them also.

Shawni Pothier 35:58

And I would add to that one way that we've done it in our family, exemplified by our dad, who was really awesome is he would take us aside sometimes when when we were little and write the things that we were really good at that he had noticed in a ballpoint pen on each of our fingertips. So if I was really good at helping with the dishes, he would write d for dishes on my thumb. And then he would go on to the next thing of really good friend or he would write f as for a friend on my fingertips. And it is just so funny because it's a beautiful way to not only help your child know that they are loved and appreciated, but help you look out for those things. But the reason why I bring it up with your question with teenagers who don't feel loved, it sounds kind of silly and juvenile, but I have done it with those teenagers that don't feel it. I've done it with my young adults, it seems silly, but it's just this beautiful way to say, Okay, I'm sorry, I don't care how mad you are, give me your hand, it just kind of gets rid of the tension. And it's kind of funny. But it gives you an avenue to be able to explain what you love about your child. So just one little tactic that I love.

Saren Loosli 37:03

And my kids because they they didn't grow up with doing that fun little technique, they may not respond well if I grabbed their hands and started doing that. But one thing that I think echoes that is sending them a text that you do a lot of parenting via text sometimes when you have adult kids, which actually works quite nicely, because you can think about it carefully and write it out nicely. But often I will if something comes to my mind, that I love about one of my kids, I tried to make a real point of sending them a text, I was just thinking about you. And I love how you blah, blah, blah. And those little things, it bonds me to them makes them feel seen and understood and loved. And it makes a really big difference. The other thing that I think makes a big difference is I just love elder Uchtdorf said about what our role is. And what you can do and must do for the rising generation is provide that rich, nourishing soil with access to flowing heavenly water. Remove the weeds and anything that would block heavenly sunlight. Create the best possible conditions for growth. Patiently allow the rising generation to make inspired choices and let God work his miracle. The result will be more beautiful and more stunning and more joyful than anything you could possibly accomplish just by yourself. I love that. It points out what we can do. But I also think it points out that it's not up to us. We're just trying to create a really good environment, we're trying to show the love, we're trying to provide the water, we're trying to point people in the right direction, we're trying to be a great example wherever we can be. But ultimately, it's really helped me with older kids to just realize it is not my job to try to make a certain outcome come to pass. It's my job to provide the nourishing soil, the water, the love, the things that they need. And then they're going to grow into whatever kind of tree or whatever kind of plant they need to grow into. And I need to accept that and it's hard. Sometimes it's a really different plant than you were hoping would be growing in that child. Right?

Kathryn Davis 38:55

And I think it's important to remember that their choices are not a reflection on us. Their good choices, and their bad choices are not a reflection on how well we're doing. Right. And exactly, I just I love that idea right there where elder Uchtdorf says to sit back and let God work his miracle. And even if we're in the thick of it right now, it doesn't mean that the miracles aren't going to happen. And we don't know when they are so can we just step back, have patience and have faith and let God take care of it. Let God work his miracle because there's time.

Saren Loosli 39:35

One of my favorite things that our mom always says is life is long. And if we can remember that life is long and eternity is longer, and there's so much that can happen as long as we're doing our part with the love the nurturer and some days we don't do a good job and we repent and we get better at it, but that we just keep moving in that direction knowing there's backward steps and forward steps then we can step back and we can watch for a miracle.

Kathryn Davis 40:03

Elder Uchtdorf says that God can heal relationships, and that he can magnify, he can magnify the joy in the home, he can magnify the good in the home and multiply it right, he uses the example of the loaves and the fishes. And just like Christ could multiply the loaves and the fishes, he can do that in our homes. And I just want to ask, have you seen God multiply your efforts in your home? Have you seen him multiply the love or the joy in your homes?

Shawni Pothier 40:38

I was trying to think of some concrete examples for that, because I just think that is so beautiful, because I do know, there's, you know, every once in a while, there'll be a disruption in our home or disagreement and things that happen, especially as my kids are getting to more be adults. And I can see that, you know, you hear about these families who don't talk anymore, or their relationships are totally torn apart. And it's scary, because those kinds of things do happen. But I just love that God can come in and heal even the worst of those things. I just felt so comforting to read that from President Uchtdorf that he can heal those things, if we just let him and give it time. You know, sometimes it just takes time. I know one friend in particular who has been distanced from her mother, she's a young mom, and she has been really distanced from her mother and just did not see eye to eye on things and just kind of has torn their family apart. But it's been beautiful to see the little steps that she's taking as she's learning to forgive, as she's learning to humble herself. And it can happen, we just need to realize that sometimes that's a slow process, I guess.

Kathryn Davis 41:43

What has changed for you, even over the years, as you've began to understand that you can partner with Jesus Christ in your parenting?

Saren Loosli 41:54

I think the biggest thing for me is the ability to let go, I am a person who I care a lot about a lot of things, dumb things, and super important things. As I've you know, I think a lot of sending me five kids in five years was the Lord's sending me a big message that I needed to relinquish a lot of control really quickly there. How they looked exactly, what clothes they wore, and exactly their behavior likes, a lot of things just had to go to the wayside a little bit for a while. I think that as we learn how to really let go. I mean, it's it's kind of cliche, but let go and let God the more that we do that, the more that we see beautiful things coming. So I think a big aha for me was, and it's unfolding. I mean, it's been, I've been parenting for 23 years, and I still find myself getting back to that stage of caring too much about the wrong things. But when I remember that little mantra of just like, let go, it changes things for me, and it makes me realize it's not my responsibility to try to, you know, force something to be a certain way. It's my responsibility to love. It is my responsibility to work in partnership with God. And that reminder that comes to my mind frequently, when I lead it makes all the difference.

Shawni Pothier 43:05

I think, personally, just when I realized that God can be in control, I It's helped me to soften my heart a little bit and to and to really ask, and I have a really favorite quote that I love from Patricia Holland. And it says, "We have to pray as the ancients prayed. We are women now, not children. We are expected to pray with maturity. The words most often used to describe urgent prayerful labor are wrestle, plead, cry, and hunger. In some sense, prayer may be the hardest work we will ever be engaged in. And perhaps it should be." And I think that I've, I've learned a lot about prayer over the years as I have, parented these kids, and just tried to figure things out and failed over and over again and had some successes here and there. I've realized that the prayer doesn't really make people do things or change things, it actually changes us, it changes our hearts. I just love that thought that we are not necessarily praying for so and so to get an A on their tests or get into such and such college or get along with their brother, we're praying that we can change. God has the power to change us. We just need to soften our hearts and connect with God and wrestle and plead and cry and hunger, like Patricia Holland says.

Kathryn Davis 44:24

That's so beautiful. Love that. Right and so hopeful, I can partner with him, and that they're his children. They were his children first. And as a leader, or as a mom or an aunt or a friend or in whatever role I am in that I can seek guidance and direction, to love and to support and lift and be a light. You guys, each one of our episodes we like to end with a small and simple challenge, something that we can implement through the week to help us connect with The Savior Jesus Christ. So what is your small and simple suggestion that you have to look to Jesus Christ as the strength of parents?

Saren Loosli 45:09

Okay, I would say, to pray very specifically, we've talked a lot about prayer. But pray very specifically for something, some act of love that you can do on a regular basis all week, whether it's a 10 second hug, whether it's a tuck-in compliment, whether it's a huddle prayer, whatever it might be, some totally different for you, but pray and ask the Lord specifically for something you can do to show more love in your family this week.

Shawni Pothier 45:37

And my would be I love the elder Uchtdorf says, The greatest gift that we have is a mighty change of heart. And I guess I would encourage me included us all to search for what we need to do to create that mighty change of heart in ourselves. Whether it's apologizing to our kids more often, whether it's attaching to our spouse better so that we can parent better, whatever it may be, whether it's even being more humble in our prayers, if we can figure out what we specifically uniquely need, for that mighty change of heart to to help us connect with God better in our parenting. That would be good.

Kathryn Davis 46:10

Two really good, small and simple things that we can do, which I think will have a huge impact in our homes. You guys, thank you so much for coming and joining us on this conversation. I've loved that.

Shawni Pothier 46:21

We have loved being here. Thanks so much for having us.

Saren Loosli 46:24

Yes, it's been so great.

Kathryn Davis 46:29

I thought today's conversation was really helpful. Because I know as a parent, sometimes I get really down on myself because I make mistakes all the time. And I truly believe that if we can partner with Jesus Christ in our parenting, that he is a God of second chances. And we know that about the Atonement of Jesus Christ that we can mess up again and again and again. But he can fill in the gaps and he can make the difference. And we just have to be willing to try. Thanks for being here. And hop on over to Instagram at magnify community for more inspiration and conversation. And of course, subscribe and listen to the Magnify podcast wherever you get your shows. Let's meet up again next week.