Practicing, Not Perfecting Mothering with Lori Thurston

Kathryn Davis 00:00

If Mother's Day is hard for you know that you're not alone. Hi and welcome to magnify an LDS Living podcast where we cheer inspire and embolden each other as women and followers of Jesus Christ. We hope to use our influence to make a difference in the world. I'm your host, Kathryn Davis, a mom, a seminary teacher and a grilling enthusiast who loves God. Mother's Day is this week and well, it's a day to honor and celebrate moms. It's not always a happy day. Sharon Eubank said Mother's Day is often an emotional and spiritual minefield for almost everyone. Women who have no children, or who wanted more children or maybe different children, women who feel they are failing or that someone failed them or that failure is around the corner. Women who wish they were free to mother or feel cut off from their mothers, or never had the mother they wanted or can't be the mother they want to be. This comes from a blog post Sister Eubank wrote in 2018, titled The idea of mothers and Zion made me mad, until I learned what it meant. Joining me to talk about this blog post, which is such a great read is Lori Thurston. Lori and her husband Bob, are currently waiting for their visas to serve a mission in Pakistan. And so before we get into this talk, Laurie, first of all, I'm so happy that you're here.

Lori Thurston 01:25

Thank you honored,

Kathryn Davis 01:26

and I want to ask you a couple rapid fire questions so we can get to know you a little bit better. Are you ready?

Lori Thurston 01:32

Yes, I'm ready. Okay.

Kathryn Davis 01:34

You served with our producer Sarah, as a senior couple missionary in Cambodia, right. You also serve a young adult mission to Japan. And you and your husband have served in Africa, too. And now you're about ready to head out on another mission. So obviously, you love missions. And I want to know, what is your favorite part about being a missionary?

Lori Thurston 01:59

I think it frees me to be able to say things I wouldn't normally say I wouldn't normally do. It also keeps me very much in check that I'm not doing anything that wouldn't be appropriate for a disciple of Jesus Christ. It keeps me very grounded in what I'm doing. And it gives me more purpose than anything else that I've ever done.

Kathryn Davis 02:19

I like that idea of purpose, right? Helping give you some purpose. I love that. What are some of your favorite foods you've tried as you've traveled and lived in so many different places?

Lori Thurston 02:31

Okay, wow. I really like yaki Silva from Japan and tempura, I'm really actually pretty good at making tempura. And in Cambodia, lok Lok and fish Amok are really good. In Africa, it was just a lot of chicken and rice didn't eat a lot of anything, really, except I tried fufu, but it didn't make that I love this list.

Kathryn Davis 02:52

So have you had any Pakistani food before you head out?

Lori Thurston 02:57

Just a little bit. And mostly it's been a lot of Indian food. And there's some similarities, except of course, there's more beef and things like that.

Kathryn Davis 03:06

All right. Sounds good.

Lori Thurston 03:08

Yeah, it's going to be.

Kathryn Davis 03:10

Okay. So here's my last question for you. How many grandkids Do you have? And what is your favorite way to spend time with them?

Lori Thurston 03:17

That's great. We just recently have a new one that came on Valentine's Day. And so we have eight. And I think probably my favorite way is to do something they like to do a game that they want to play, read a book they want to read, kind of ask what is it that they want to do and then participate in that? Because then I know that I'm showing that what they want to do matters.

Kathryn Davis 03:40

So Lori, you married later, and stepped into the role of a stepmother in your 40s. Can you tell me a little bit about that and how that was?

Lori Thurston 03:55

Of course. Luckily, when I received my patriarchal blessing, the word eventually was listed. And it said, eventually, you will select from the noble sons of Zion. And so I already thought, okay, there's a pause. It's not going to happen really quickly. But I thought eventually meant, you know, maybe after college, maybe after my mission, and no, it dragged on and dragged on. And I had a lot of fun, I dated I had amazing friends, but it just didn't ever seem to happen. And I was usually okay with it. But about 30 I remember I would say my prayers, and I would say Heavenly Father, really, really, there is not one guy on this planet whose life would be better if I was in it? And I would just kind of say, I promise I won't bug you about this again till I'm 35. But really, you know, isn't there somebody? And then at 35 I'd say, Okay, I'm back. I tried to be quiet for five years. It's about really, really isn't there's someone on this planet, who would be better off if I was in their life? I would feel a pain and, you know, cry those tears and then try to just put on a big smile and go forward saying, Oh, well, I have some things that some of my married friends don't have, I can travel, I can have my own cute car, you know, I just would think of all the things that I could do, I thought, well, I'm jealous of them. So I'll just try to make sure that they're jealous of me. And I will try to have this great single life. And I would tell people all the time, there's only one thing better than an incredible single life. And that's an incredible marriage. And so I'm not going to do it until I can find an incredible marriage. And so yeah, I was 39. And single when we were married, and and married have widower, and these three great children, they were ages 9, 11, and 13, when we got married, and they were great, but I still wasn't their mom, their mom died. And she was an angel. And they felt like she's in heaven. And but I was the lady there. And I taught school. So I knew about the sub that people really didn't like this substitute as much as they liked the real, the real teacher. And they were great. And I loved them dearly. And they were very welcoming, very kind, but it wasn't the path that I expected. And I went through, we played the whole infertility game and spend lots of resources, time, energy and tears and couldn't ever get any of our own children here. And so I finally just, you know, took a big deep breath and said, All right, then I'm just blessed. I'm just blessed to be able to have these three in my life. And we're gonna go forward, we didn't feel necessarily that we were to adopt or anything, but I kind of questioned that at the time. But, but trusted because of that, we probably were able to we left on our first mission when he was 56. And I was 55. Whereas if we'd have children, we'd still be home, probably raising them. But it was a little bit a different twist. I do want to back up and tell you one thing, though, is that when I was experiencing singlehood, I finally said to the Lord, I know it's important. I know motherhood is divine. And so can you please help me learn the lessons of companionship, and learn the lessons of motherhood? Even if that's not in your plans for my earth life. I still need to learn those lessons. And I felt like he really blessed me to learn some of those lessons through my students through my young women's colleagues through my nieces and nephews, you know, I felt like he really opened up several avenues that I could learn some of those lessons so that I didn't feel like the only way to know them was through motherhood, and through being married.

Kathryn Davis 07:36

So Lori, why did you feel those lessons were so important to learn right now?

Lori Thurston 07:43

Well, I've decided it's because motherhood is divine. Motherhood is divine. That is the only way to describe it. Because women all over the planet are yearning to do something that will be blood, sweat, and tears. It will be someone that throwing up on you and biting you and yelling at you, and eventually maybe rebelling against you. And yet there's this deep, eternal desire to bear children. And it's because it's divine, it's part of the plan. And so I knew that I needed to learn lessons, I needed to know what that was, I needed to be able to gain as much experience as I could it during this mortal journey, and that that was part of what I needed to be learning.

Kathryn Davis 08:33

So after, you know, all of these years as what you could have seen of unanswered prayers. Or maybe that you were waiting for promised blessings that hadn't yet happened. Were there ever times where Mother's Day was hard for you? Is it hard for you still, or was it ever difficult?

Lori Thurston 08:58

Yes, it was hard. And I remember one time I was sitting with a guy I was dating and I was crying. And he looked at me and he said, really? I said, Hey, it's real. You want that. It's something you desire. And I tried to only cry about it on Mother's Day, and I tried to feel strengthened and uplifted and look at all those things. But I've eventually chose to celebrate motherhood. And I think the biggest shift for me was when I started to realize that the word mother is a noun and a verb. And that even in the world, we use it, we say, den mother room, Mother, Mother Superior Reverend Mother, we use the word mother many times when it does not mean physically giving birth. And when I started to realize that there is the word mother to actually give birth, and then there is the word mother to nourish, care for, strengthen, then I could go forward mothering, and go forward being a mother without having physically given birth.

Kathryn Davis 10:11

So for those maybe who are listening who struggle through Mother's Day, for a variety of reasons, and maybe they haven't had that moment like you had, where you realize that mothering was a verb, what advice would you give to those who struggle on Mother's Day?

Lori Thurston 10:33

One thing I would say is that this life is to practice mothering, not to perfect mothering. And what I believe is that the eternities are going to have so many mothering opportunities, that is what our divine role will be, it will be to mother. And right now, we're just practicing. So we're making mistakes we're learning. We're feeling angst and anguish. And that's part of our Heavenly Father's plan. To me, everything is an atonement lesson. And I think those things that I want that I can't have that the Savior is helping cross that bridge and teaching that same atonement lesson, that someone is there that someone can carry, you can lift you can build you.

Kathryn Davis 11:19

I need to remember that on some of those days where I feel like I have totally failed, right and right, and there's a lot of those.

Lori Thurston 11:27

Honestly, if you didn't feel that way, then the plan wouldn't be working. If a mother said, I've got this I have justice, then she would not be helpful.

Kathryn Davis 11:37

Ever saying that? Oh, yeah, totally.

Lori Thurston 11:41

A mother needs to be constantly concerned, worried, reevaluating, rethinking to stay humble, to stay moldable. Because the world needs more mothers now than it ever, ever has. The world needs more mothering. More people in the world need timeout and need encouragement and strength than ever, ever before. And when I walk into an orphanage in Africa, and all these children run up to me, I don't think these aren't mine. I didn't give birth to these children. I just think how can my arms, pull in all of these little souls that need a hug? And it doesn't matter that I'm not their mother, and that they're not my child. They need that. And I need that. And so we can give that to each other. Sorry, I'm so emotional. Once I tried to say, okay, what can I do as a mother, I was teaching high school, I was teaching high school. Hello, you have 200 students. And there were times very specifically at Young Women's camp, I would know what I needed to do or what I needed to say. I go on these missions, all of a sudden, there's 200 young missionaries, and they're all missing their mom. And there, there are so many places, there are so many places and when women are missing motherhood, I usually try to say to them, what is it that you're missing? Are you missing the connection? Are you missing the celebrations? Are you missing somebody giving you a hug every day? Because there is somebody that needs all of those things in your life. There is somebody in your life that can use a hug every day, even if it's not your own child. There is somebody that needs a birthday party that if you could plan it, and give it they desperately need that and the Lord will help provide those opportunities so you can do that.

Kathryn Davis 13:40

Well, Sister Eubank says something similar. And I think there's so much power in that thought Lori, like if we could understand and recognize that. Sister Eubank said that as a middle aged woman with no kids that she sometimes struggled with the concept that we are all mothers in Zion. But then something changed for her. And she describes how at many different points of her life, much like what you were just saying, she has stood in as a figurative mother, in so many different circumstances. So is that what you think that term we are all mothers in Zion refers to or what does that mean to you?

Lori Thurston 14:23

I understand the divine that I do, at some point, want to bear my own children. I understand that but it also means to Mother where you are. To lift, build, encourage, strengthen, notice all of those things that a good mother would do. I think it's interesting that when the Savior comes to the people in Third Nephi, and he says, How often have I gathered you as a hen gathered her chickens under my wings and nourish you? And when you think about that, he didn't say, I come as a rooster and I call and you better all come in and he chooses the feminine the hen. The hen that gathered that pulled them in, because they could all understand that metaphor. And that as a woman, I can see he was he's asking me to spread my wings, it pull in every little chick, I can find, and as a mother, you know, it's not just your children, it's their friends, and their friends, friends and everyone else that you can see around you. I'm a Senior Sister missionary. And there are several senior sister missionaries that maybe don't have a companion or away from home, that just need kind of that little mothering nurturing that we can give as women and because of our divine inheritance, we feel those promptings. And we sometimes shoo them away thinking, Oh, no, I'm, I'm not really their mother. But there are times that you will be led and guided to lift and strengthen someone as if you were their mother.

Kathryn Davis 15:57

So can you give me an example of that? So I know you talked about as a teacher or as a missionary, which I think presents a lot of opportunities to mother. But what if you're not in a position like that, where you have that much interaction with kids at school, or young missionaries? Like, what are ways that you have found that you could mother, besides maybe being a teacher or as a missionary?

Lori Thurston 16:30

That's a great question. And I think service provides those opportunities. We had several loads as missionaries, especially doing humanitarian work. And just one really quick one, we had rebuilt a home of for a woman that had five little teeny children that she had only had two pieces of fabric that were walls against this bench, and we were able to rebuild her home. And we came back after it to when it was finished, and we were able to see it. And she came running up to me and she just she fell into my arms just sobbing, sobbing saying thank you, thank you. And she fell to my feet and began kissing my feet. And I just picked her back up. You know, I was trying to explain in my English, not in Cambodian, but it's not my money. It's, it's somebody else's money. We were just helping provide this but the Lord just let me feel his love for her. And that can be done even if you're at a soup kitchen. Even if you're giving away knit hats to give to the homeless, you can still feel that you can Lord will give you opportunities. And I think service is a really good way to do that. And if you feel like you need that you can pray and say who is it? Who was the person? Where am I needed? Where can I go today? And that helps fill that bucket that feels empty some days.

Kathryn Davis 17:53

Well, Sister Eubank, she says that charity, or the pure love of Christ is motherhood in a very practical, real way. And some of those things you're describing to me, are charity. Right? So what do you think the relationship is between charity and motherhood?

Lori Thurston 18:12

I think that probably the basic answer is that it's the pure love of Christ, when we truly love someone as Christ loves them, that all of those barriers melt away, all of the things that might have put them at a distance from us just can be eliminated, we just see who they really are, and how we can love them, and how they need something just like we need something and that we're all in this together.

Kathryn Davis 18:39

To me, it kind of sounds like mothering is trying to become more like our Savior, Jesus Christ.

Lori Thurston 18:45

That's exactly it. And we're still just practicing. Remember, we're just practicing mothering. Because we don't have it perfect yet. And it's just being aware of what someone needs. Even with your children, you learn some some child needs a pillow, another child needs a rock, another child needs a purple shirt on purple shirt day, you know, what is it that you need? And how can I provide that for you, which is what the Savior does for us. It's looking with eyes to want to give. And it's really easy to say, oh, I can see so many needs around me. But how could I ever make a difference, but we can all make a difference.

Kathryn Davis 19:25

Well, Elder Holland described it in a way that I have never really heard of before. And it's made me think of the Savior in a different way. In a talk in 2015, titled Behold, Thy Mother. He refers to some of the characteristics of Jesus Christ. He talks about the motherly characteristics of Jesus Christ. So what are some of his motherly characteristics that resonate with you?

Lori Thurston 19:56

I think one that has really talked to me in the New Testament study this year is his touch, and that he will lean into someone. He puts his hands on me he's not afraid to even touch the leper, which would have been so horrifying to anyone else at that time. But he uses touch. He listens, even when he knows the circumstances of the situation, he listens. He ponders. He knows which answers need to be strong, which answers need to be quiet? Which questions need to be answered, and which questions do not need to be answered. Those characteristics I think, are what really to me remind me of motherhood.

Kathryn Davis 20:44

It's so true. I remember once there was a knock on my door. And it was I It was late at night and I opened the door and on our doorstep stood a friend of my daughter's. And he just said, Mama Davis, I just need a hug. Can I just have a hug? And okay, you just got to know like hugs are my love language. So I was like, You bet. Come on in here and give me a hug. But I haven't thought of that before the power of touch that that is one of Christ's motherly characteristics. And all the times that he healed and healed physically, emotionally and spiritually with a touch.

Lori Thurston 21:31

It will and we had that same thing happened when I as our children were teenagers. It was nine o'clock was scripture study and prayer. And if your friends were there that everybody came, it was nine o'clock scripture studies and prayer. And even after our children had all launched, one night at nine o'clock, the doorbell rang. And there was one of our son's friends who was pretty lost. But he just said it's nine o'clock, right? It's prayer and scripture study at your house. And my husband I were like It sure is, even though we hadn't done it that way since the kids had left. We're just like, you come right on in and that's what he needed was a hug. A place you could study the scriptures and out word of prayer. And that's mothering that he wasn't mine, but I love him like he's mine. And those kinds of things are being what the Savior would have us be. Being in a place where we can reach out and touch or provide what they need at the time.

Kathryn Davis 22:32

Well, Sister Eubank calls this mother work. And she talks about Mother work, which I love, I love. I love the

Lori Thurston 22:41

work. of it, it's worse. It's not. It's not Mother, Mother dancing, Mother skipping, it is mother work. And it's mother work.

Kathryn Davis 22:52

So true. Like I think for some of us, the act of raising children is mother work. But for all of us, there's mother work that will come she says directly through the whispers of the Holy Spirit. Mother work that will come whether that's with our own children, or with other children. So you just kind of talked about that you love that she describes at work. So how would you describe mother work?

Lori Thurston 22:53

It is being aware of what's going on around you. It is pleading that the Spirit will guide you to where you need to be to be able to use your resources to help someone else. And if someone's having a hard time with the word mother, they can just replace Minister they can I just need to minister to other people, I need to sisterhood to other people, I need to befriend, other people. If If mother is hard is a hard word, then just replace it with something else. It's using those same gifts that we have to nurture, encourage and bless the life of someone else.

Kathryn Davis 23:54

So what did Mother work look like for you in your late 20s compared to what it looks like for you now?

Lori Thurston 24:01

When you say that I instantly went to when I was the Relief Society president of my single adult ward. And so I felt like I had a responsibility. Here were all of these girls in various phases of their life in various situations. But I wanted them to feel connected. One thing my mother was really good at was connecting people and that's and that's one of the things I wanted to do. I wanted everyone to feel like they were friends. They were connected. That they had a place that they could go that they had a relationship where they there was someone they always do they could turn to when things were hard, when they needed to cry, when they needed to celebrate there was always a community for them to do that. As a student in college, there were always people that needed to borrow sugar or to go for a walk or needed a ride or If you look around, it's everywhere. And there are so many places that people need. And as I said, the world is we've never had a time when so many people need a mother need need help. And I think statistically, it's, it's hard because when you're going through any of that, when you don't have children, you're going through infertility, you think I am alone? No, it's like one in five, one in six, one in four, depending on where you live. Women don't bear children. And it feels alone. But it really isn't. There are so many great examples of women that go out and do and they been from the early days of the church. And all through the restoration, there were great women that didn't bear children that went forward and mothered handcart companies or releif societies or whatever group that they could put in their own circle. To me, Zion is my little place. If, if I'm assigned to Zion in Pakistan, then I go find my little circle. And then we try to expand the little circle, wherever that is, and I tried to mother in that location and to look, try and be pure in heart and seek for those that want to join with us and be kind to those that do not.

Kathryn Davis 26:20

You mentioned that there were moments where you felt isolated and alone, and probably discouraged and disheartened. So what did you hold on to when you felt like everybody else was having the opportunity to Mother except for you?

Lori Thurston 26:39

I trusted the plan. Because I trust the architect of the plan.

Kathryn Davis 26:46

Well, I think our heavenly parents can see beyond our current circumstances. And the their view of us stretches into the eternity. And we're just looking at ourselves in the here and now. So this one little moment. Yeah. So how does understanding that they see the whole plan, And they see us not just right now, but they see us stretching into the eternities, How does maybe this long view affect the way you see your circumstances today?

Lori Thurston 27:24

It allows me to give myself grace. And to say, it's not part of the plan yet. It's not part of the plan yet. We've all met a darling little seven year old that says I'm not cute, nobody will want to marry me, she has her own little meltdown. And you think, Oh, honey, that's hilarious. Because you are so far away from that, and someone is going to fall in love with you, and someone is going to want to marry you. But you can see how in her moment, that is her little piece of, of pain. Or somebody says I'm not good at math, I'm never going to be able to learn how to do math and their their pain. You think, oh, you're gonna learn how to do math, and you're gonna learn how to use a calculator. And it'll be able to do math for you. And and you as you watch children, and as you watch people grow, you think, Oh, it's okay. You don't have to know everything now. As you meet someone new in the Gospel, and they think, Oh, I can't, I can't even learn all of these scriptures. You think don't worry, you don't have to, you've got a lifetime, you've got an eternity to do that. And so as we try to look like our heavenly parents do, and see that this is really a long process, not a short thing, then we're able to be patient with others and patient with ourselves.

Kathryn Davis 28:39

Well, it's like that word from your patriarchal blessing. Eventually.

Lori Thurston 28:43

Eventually. I know. And at the time, I was a little like, what? And then I was like, I'm so grateful. It took so much pressure off so much pressure off.

Kathryn Davis 28:53

What would you say to those who are heading into Mother's Day with a little trepidation? For a number of reasons like the the reasons why I might be a little anxious about Mother's Day, Lori, are probably very different than yours. This Mother's Day is going to be the first Mother's Day without my mom. And that is really tender for me. And often, I feel like I keep messing up as a mom. So sometimes Mother's Day makes me feel guilty, because I think I should be doing this so much better than I am. So what advice would you have for so many who have different emotions surrounding this day?

Lori Thurston 29:43

Well, I think you're focusing on the negative emotions and I think that that is very common. In fact, there may be more people that feel more women that feel negative about it than positive about it.

Kathryn Davis 29:54

And I want to switch that. Don't you think we could change that?

Lori Thurston 29:56

Yes, we need to and I and I almost I think okay, those of you that plan the meeting, how can you have this be a meeting that that women leave feeling strengthened instead of discouraged? But I think one thing you could do is to look around and think who else is going to be hurting on this day? Do I invite them to come with me? And even if you call it say, ah, Mother's Day, it's one of the hardest weeks to go to church. But will you come sit with me, Come be with me, or to think of a way that you can give yourself a pep talk, even if you have to spend some time in prayer and scripture study before you go saying, I don't want to feel this way. I want to feel strengthened, I want to feel like there is certainly much more good than there is bad. And there's certainly much more to look forward to because we're practicing motherhood, we're not perfecting it yet. We're just practicing. And if we had it all figured out, we wouldn't be humble, we wouldn't be learning. And we wouldn't be drawing closer to the Savior saying, you've got to help me with this.

Kathryn Davis 30:59

And maybe I just was thinking as you were talking about maybe trying to switch that a little in our minds and in our hearts. And can I look at mother's day through different eyes this year, instead of feeling sad that my mom's not here. Can I be grateful for all those years where she was? And even if maybe some don't have a perfect relationship with their mother or with their children, Can we be grateful for the opportunity to be better? I just keep thinking of Elder Uchtdorf's conference talk that Christ can heal relationships, and there's always hope.

Lori Thurston 31:44

Always hope he will heal all of them eventually. It's just that it's going to take a very long time.

Kathryn Davis 31:50

There's that word again. Yeah. Eventually.

Lori Thurston 31:53

It's all it's all going to work out. But there, it's okay, if there's some mess in the middle. That will help us rejoice when those relationships are healed.

Kathryn Davis 32:04

I love this What Sister Eubank says she said that life has taught her three things that changed her mind about Mother's Day. And as we talked about maybe switching our mindset, so we don't have negative emotions about Mother's Day, but maybe some positive emotions. I think these three are so important. First, she says she learned that her skills are never wasted. Second, that her heart, not her present circumstances, determine her blessings. And third, that she is a mother because she behaves as a mother.

Lori Thurston 32:40

As a good mother. It was funny because when we first got married, I felt like every movie we watched, the mother was missing or dead, even the fairy tales. And I just thought, Oh, these poor children that have been through all that. And the curse of the wicked stepmother, you know, was always running through my mind, I didn't want to be that I wanted to be kind and loving and be a difference maker. And I think that the Savior has shown us those examples of what it is to be the type of mother that lifts and builds and strengthens and nurtures and knows how to give what is needed at the time.

Kathryn Davis 33:18

Well, and you even said at the beginning how you felt inspired to develop some mothering skills and want that desire that divine desire to understand and learn and to be motherly and engage in the mother work. And I I love that Sister Eubank says those skills are never wasted, and that you have used those skills throughout your whole life. Whether with your stepchildren or everyone else you have come in contact with.

Lori Thurston 33:58

We're trying. We're all just trying,

Kathryn Davis 34:01

Practicing, practicing. We're practicing. So Lori, One thing that we like to do at the end of every episode is to give a small and simple suggestion of something that we can work on throughout the week. So with Mother's Day approaching, what is your small and simple suggestion to help us focus maybe more on the positive emotions of Mother's Day rather than feeling some of the guilt and the pain.

Lori Thurston 34:31

I love these weekly challenges and I find them very fun to do and I appreciate the opportunity. Some are harder than others. Some are really easy and some are a little trickier but I appreciate that you challenge us each week and give us something to do. What I would like to challenge everyone to do this week is to prayerfully consider who it is in their life that has helped to Mother them or their children or their neighborhood or their ward that wasn't already on the I need to do something for Mother's Day list, and to reach out and make contact and thank someone for the mothering that they did that was not through bloodline, but made a difference for someone else. And even if that person has already passed, you can pray that they will know you appreciate that more, you can write a note and send it to their children or someone in their family, let them know you helped mother me, or I really appreciate how you helped helped you help Mother all of the children in the nursery in our ward. And you will probably be led to someone that needs to hear that. You can make a great Mother's Day for someone else by reaching out and having noticed their mother work.

Kathryn Davis 35:52

Lori, this seems really tender to you. This challenge and personal and of yours power in that challenge, not only for us to recognize the influence of others in our lives and the lives of those we love. But also, there's power when we feel seen and valued. Beautiful. Thank you so much. Lori, thank you so much for being here today.

Lori Thurston 36:19

Well, it's a pleasure, honor.

Kathryn Davis 36:23

There is so much to learn and take away from this conversation with Lori today. But I especially loved when she said that we are here to practice mothering not perfect and that we can truly become more like our Savior as we do so. Thanks for being here and hop on over to Instagram at magnify community for more inspiration and conversation and of course subscribe and listen to the Magnify podcast wherever you get your shows. Let's meet up again next