Segment 1
As soon as our late prophet president Nelson taught what Israel meant, you can be sure that I looked it up and dissected that word in Hebrew, and sure enough, guess what? He was right. Israel, this is what it sounds like and means. So the E sound at the very beginning, E, so it's Israel. The E sound at the beginning is the future tense of the verb rah.
And rah means to prevail or have power over, and L means God, e rah, l Let God prevail or God will prevail. Future tense. This week's study of Genesis Chapters 24 through 33 contain the very first occurrence of Israel in the Bible, and these chapters are filled with stories where God prevailed and truthfully, if God can prevail in these true and kind of messy stories, then surely he can prevail in yours.
Welcome to the Sundown Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take [00:01:00] the come Follow Me lesson for the week, and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description that can explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come Follow Me study, just like my longtime listening friend, Ramey Kirkland.
Now, another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different. And today we have different, I'm so excited you guys. I love these two women. We have Katie Lambert and Mindy Larson. Hi ladies. Hi Tammy. Hey Tammy. Okay, uh, how do you two know each other?
Oh well we just barely met and you know, Mindy's my mom, she's known me my whole life and I've known her for 33 years. So we know each other pretty well. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Absolutely. Um, Katie, how do we know each other? How are you even on here? Oh, because I used to help out with Sunday, on Monday, back in the day.
Bef like COVID times and [00:02:00] pre COVID times. What times those were. Katie is how it all got started. Katie and Corrine, I miss these people so much and so I said, Katie, I want you to be on and your mom and you were like, yes, and I'm gonna talk my mom into it. And Mindy's, here I am here. Are you so excited? A little bit nervous.
This is my first time podcast, so I'm really nervous. Well, listen, you got a professional daughter, so she's going to ease us into this, but I will tell you guys listening, I reached out to these women and this is a big scripture block, isn't it? 24 to 33. Oh my gosh. What'd you think when I assigned that? I was like, this is gonna be my reading for the month.
I.
It's such a big scripture block. Whoa. Yes. And it covers so many stories, and I thought, there's no way, we don't even have enough time to go into depth. So I gave you guys a little assignment and you did not fail me. And so [00:03:00] I'm weaving everything into this whole episode with what they shared with me, so I, it is gonna be so good.
They did not like, they just rock. They, they knocked it outta the park. So thank you for doing that, and we're gonna have a really great discussion. So if you wanna know more about my guests and you wanna read their bios and see their pictures, go to our show notes, which are found at lds living.com/sunday on Monday.
Okay. Everyone grab your scriptures and something to mark them with. And let's dig into Genesis chapters 24 through 33. Okay. You two. Here we go. First things first. What did the Holy Ghost teach you? As you read all these chapters, Mindy, we're gonna go with you first. Okay, so something that really jumped out at me with these chapters was how important covenants are.
And they were very important to Abraham. They were very important to Isaac and to Jacob, and they're important to me too. And as I read this story about Esau selling his birthright for pot, it just felt [00:04:00] more metaphorical to me than it had, uh, ever before. And I kind of applied it in my life and in modern day, how so often many people de despise or disregard their blessings like Esau did and are willing to trade them.
And it really brought it to my mind how important it is to honor those covenants and to realize what a blessing they are. I have a follow up question for you, Mindy. You said covenants are important to you. Tell me why. Why are they important to you? They are. Sorry. It's okay. They are deeply personal to me.
It's something that is so important with me and my hemly father, and it has little to do with other people, just me and my hemly father and the promises that he's given me. And more than anything, my family is so important to me, and those [00:05:00] covenants and blessings make it possible for me to be with them for eternity.
Mm-hmm. How many kids do you have? I have four children. I have three girls and a boy at the end, and I have, uh, well, after a few months I will have six grand babies. Wow. So yeah. Your family is so important to you. They are. Thank you for answering that question. I can see why covenants are important to you.
We're gonna get more into that today, so thank you for letting me ask you that question. Mm-hmm. What about you, Katie? I wish I had a deep answer to that, but like, I as my mom, like knocked it outta the park. I'm like, well, lemme tell you, I am pregnant heading into my third trimester. And so Rebecca's story really stuck out to me because, uh, while we haven't necessarily dealt with infertility, we've waited a long time for this baby, and it's been kind of a very emotional road getting here.
Hmm. [00:06:00] And so we finally, like, I swear, like the week after I got pregnant, it felt like every single calamity and sickness that can happen to you when you're pregnant happened to me. Really? Yeah. And so when she says in Genesis 25, 22, if it. Be so then why am I this? Mm-hmm. I kind of felt the same way. I'm like, I've gotten everything I've wanted.
Why is this being so hard now? Like, why is it so hard? And she only had, I mean, I only have one boy inside my stomach and she had two. Yeah. And I'll tell you, this kid has not stopped moving from the day he could be felt. And I was like, if I had twins in there, and that was rough, man, I would also be like, what is happening to me?
And go through infertility and then I get pregnant with these kids that won't stop beating me from the inside. So I, right. I felt like that, I started to see that as we were like, you know, there's things that we want and things that we get, [00:07:00] and it doesn't mean that because we get 'em, it's gonna be easy.
Mm-hmm. And that's not a bad thing either. Like, just because something's hard doesn't mean that there's not an opportunity for growth in there. Mm. And so I, I really loved and resonated with Rebecca's story and her struggle and, and what it can teach us about. Uh, getting through the tough times. Wow. I like that you said that the hard times can be an opportunity for growth.
I think sometimes we forget that and I've, and uh, I love that you pointed that out in verse 22, 'cause we're gonna talk about it some more today. That specific line, I'd never noticed that until you marked it. And to me, it almost seems like when she says, if it be so, why am I, thus it was almost foretelling the rest of her life.
Like, I wonder how many times she uttered that line as she was like, but I'm keeping my covenant. Why is this so hard? So it'll be really great to have more of a discussion on that verse, which we'll do later on in today's episode. Thank you to both of you for sharing what the Holy Ghost taught you and forgetting us in the scriptures.
So these are just examples right here that you've shared of God [00:08:00] prevailing. But first, we are gonna mark in our scriptures in the next segment, the very first place that we read Israel, which means letting God prevail. We'll show you that next.
Segment 2
So you two tell me this, five years ago when President Nelson taught us let God prevail and that that's what the name Israel meant, did you have any thoughts about it or did it mean anything to you then, or does it mean anything to you now?
I'll tell you, that was COVID and I just had a baby, so I missed that. General Love it. Thank you for your honesty. Fantastic. But I did go back. I made it a point you're like, he said that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, like I, I studied, I was really grateful I set this up, I set up a study plan, um, right before he passed away of all of his talks.
Wow. And so, wow. I came across that one. And I've had a couple of friends who had, had really personal, really strong experiences like life changing experiences with that talk. So I really enjoyed going back and studying it [00:09:00] and thinking about the time period when he gave it. And then what's happened since then in my life.
Mm-hmm. And so I think it's really cool. I mean, I, it's really hard for me to let anyone prevail in my life 'cause I am so stubborn. I don't like rules. If someone gives me a rule that doesn't make sense, I will just disregard it and keep going with what I want. Your mom's shaking her head, she's smiling like mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. She is her mother's daughter. Love it. Yeah. So I was excited to talk about this, this time around 'cause I'm like, I really need to, I really need to learn how to do this better in my life. Oh, cool. Okay. What about you, Mindy? Well, I too am a control freak, and so letting someone prevail or, you know, take over my life is a little hard.
So I really, I really identified with his granddaughter when he used the word myopic. She was very upset. Mm-hmm. Because her dad was dying. It wasn't, you know, she felt like maybe [00:10:00] he, the blessings that he received should have helped him get better and, and for a while that was all she could see. And as she got.
Through her experience and was able to look at it, she understood that she was just looking at a very small portion of life. Mm-hmm. And that if she would let God prevail, there is so many blessings and, and this is a process and that we'll be together. And, and it was just a moment in time. I remember, um, going through something very similar and missing someone who had died and I thought, but we're gonna be together forever.
But, but this is all I know right now. So it was, I had my very own little moment like that. Yeah. And then I really loved the, the word willing when President Nelson talked about, are you willing to let God prevail in your life? And if you are willing, then you will know how to act and what to do [00:11:00] and, and all of these things because you are willing to let God prevail in your life.
Wow. So thank you for sharing both of you. Let's go to the very end of our scripture block. We're gonna go to the end before we start with the beginning, and let's turn to Genesis chapter 32, and we're gonna look at verse 28. This is the first appearance of the name Israel. So leading all the way up to this point.
And we're gonna talk a lot about all these stories today, but here we have a storyline where Jacob and Jacob's having this experiencing, where he's wrestling with an angel is what it says. He's having this wrestle. But the interesting thing is, while he is having this wrestle, it's actually this spiritual experience that he's having.
And mind you, up to this point, so we've had Rebecca and Isaac, they meet and get married, and then they have this son named Jacob as well as his brother, Issa and Katie, you told us that beautifully. Rebecca was pregnant with twins. And so after she has these babies, then Mindy, you told us the great story about how Jacob and [00:12:00] Esau.
Like Esau sold his inheritance or his birthright for a mess of pot, and you're gonna tell us a little bit more about that. And anyway, all sorts of things happen in Jacob's life to get him to this point where he's gonna wrestle with the Lord. And in this wrestling moment, in Genesis chapter 32, verse 28, Katie, will you read that for us?
And he said, thy name shall be called no more Jacob, the Israel, or as a prince, has thou power with God and with men, and has prevailed. Thank you. So right there, highlight the name Israel in verse 28. And at the end, highlight the word prevailed. One of the things we've learned this year is almost every time you see a person's name in the Old Testament, the name of the meaning of their name will either be in that same verse or the verse after.
So here it is right there. For with men, the unha prevailed. So Israel is prevailed. I like the footnote down below for 28 C. The footnote says, for thou has preserved with God. That's another way to think of it. I like that he's been preserved because of the [00:13:00] Lord. Let's put a cross reference next to verse 28.
We're gonna put Hebrews chapter six, verse 10. So go ahead and write that in your scriptures. Hebrews chapter six, verse 10. And we're gonna turn there. But before we read it, I want Mindy. Mindy, will you tell us about this? Because one of the things that really stood out to you as you read these chapters was this specific story.
So talk to us a little bit about how the journey for Jacob to get his name changed and how the spiritual experience was not an easy one. It was very messy, wasn't it? It was messy. Jacob did not have an easy time, so he and his mother conspired to trick Isaac. Mm-hmm. And when they tricked Isaac, they tricked him into giving Jacob Esau's blessing.
And Esau came back and found out that what had happened, and he was angry. He was really angry. In fact, he vowed to kill Jacob. [00:14:00] Yeah. So Jacob fled and he went away. And that's when he met Rachel and wanted to marry her. But her dad would not let her be married until he had worked for him for seven years.
So he worked for him for seven years, got tricked into having Leah as his wife. And he ended up there for 20 years. And after these 20 years, he finally got Rachel and, and he had Leah, and they were having their life. And then God commanded him to go back to his home. Mm-hmm. And he was afraid because Issa had promised to kill him.
I, I love that you said he was afraid. For those of you listening in Genesis 32, verse seven, I love how it says Jacob was greatly afraid. Like not just a little nervous. He was so scared to see his brother. Keep going. I love this. He was so afraid that he split his family and his group up into two so that if Esau came out, one of them, the other group could get away.
[00:15:00] And Jacob took his family and he, he, um, got them settled. And then he went to be by himself and he wrestled all night. And it says he wrestled with a, a messenger or an angel. It's not really very clear what he, who that person was. Mm-hmm. But he would not give up. And he wrestled all night with them. And, um, in the end, that's where he got his name because he did not give up.
He would not give up on needing this blessing. And that's where he got his, his name, Israel. And then the next day he was able to meet with Esau and Esau forgave him. And they, they reconciled, they were able to become. Family again. And I felt like during this whole process, Jacob just showed so much humility through the process of being able to marry Rachel, going where God told him to go, even though he was afraid.
He just had so, so much humility during this [00:16:00] whole whole process of being reunited with Esau. Absolutely. In fact, tell me this, both of you, I'd love to know your insights on this. When we talk about Jacob's wrestle that he's having and then he has a spiritual experience, let's apply that to real life.
What could that wrestle be attributed to us to today when it comes to getting a name change or like this? 'cause we look at this story and we're like, well, he was a prophet and he wrestled with an angel and then he got a name change. But how can we apply it to our life? Do any of us have to wrestle?
Yeah. One of you had to wrestle Katie.
I feel like a lot, which surprises me, like I feel like God will let me know what I'm supposed to be doing way ahead. Um, because he's known that I'm gonna wrestle with it for a long time. Oh, and he gives me, yeah, he gives me that time, which I think a lot of people think is bad, but it gives me an opportunity to make it my choice so that when I've [00:17:00] gone through the full wrestle, I can turn my will over to him and say, okay, you win.
You were right. I was wrong. Let's make this happen. And it's never easy, but giving over my trust in him always makes it so that I feel a lot more confident moving forward. Katie, thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate how personal that you got with that. It's fascinating to me in Genesis 32, before he gets his name changed and before he even meets his brother bracket, verses nine through 12.
Because in verses nine through 12, that is where Jacob prays for help before he even gets his name changed, before he sees his brother. And that goes back to that idea of humility that you said, Katie, where he's like, okay, I know you've helped me up to this point, but I, this to me seems like I really need help now I'm gonna go see someone who vowed to kill me.
Next time he sees me and you told me to go see him. I dunno how it's gonna turn out because knowing me, I probably would've been like, uh, we need to let, let's, let's just look at that for a little bit. Like, are you [00:18:00] sure I'm supposed to go back because he said he was gonna kill me. And that doesn't seem like a good plan.
And so I love that Jacob's like, okay, I am going back and I'm going a lot of help. So his prayer for help is verses nine through 12. And I think this prayer is so beautiful. And as he prays, then you beautifully set that up Mindy, by telling us what he did with his family and that he then goes and has this wrestling moment, his name gets changed to Israel.
And then I love verse 30. After his name has changed, he has this cool moment and we love the Hebrew of this. Mindy, will you read verse 30 for us? I will. And how do you say that? Penny L? Yes. Okay. And Jacob called the name of the place, penny L, where I have seen God face to face and my life is preserved.
Highlight that word. You could call it penal. You could call it penal Hebrew. We love the footnote down below for 30 A. It literally means in Hebrew, the face of God. And so here's Jacob saying, I have seen [00:19:00] God face to face and my life is preserved, and I think there's many of us listening right now who can say in their lifetime, they have seen the face of God and their life is preserved.
And whether that's literal, he saw the face of God or metaphorically through the miracle he has experienced. I think this is such a beautiful verse and a challenge for all of us to look for the face of. In all of the preservations of our life, in all of our wrestling moments that we have with the Lord.
Let's go back to Hebrews chapter six, verse 10. Now we're gonna read that, um, cross reference, and then we're gonna read a quote from our prophet Katie. Do you have Hebrews chapter six, verse 10, for God is not unrighteous to forget your work in labor of love, which he have showed toward His name. In that E.
Have in that E have ministered to the saints and do minister. Okay, we have to fix a word in that verse 'cause it's gonna change the whole meaning. Cross out the word unrighteous because in Greek it's actually the word unjust. And so I've written unjust above [00:20:00] it. Katie, why'd you do your face like that? Oh, 'cause I like that better.
I'm like, I don't think God can be unrighteous. Right? It's so much better. So now read it with the unjust word. Okay. For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love, which you have showed toward his name, and that you have ministered to the saints and do minister. Now that's cool, isn't it?
Mm-hmm. We can see the cross-reference there because he's saying to Jacob and to all of us, God isn't unjust to forget your work and your labor of love that you've showed in his toward his name. Wow. That's pretty awesome. So when you read that, you're like, of course he's gonna prevail in your life. He's not going to be unjust.
He's so good to remember all that you've done. Let's read this quote by President Nelson, Mindy, go ahead and read this for us. How does the Lord feel about people who will let God prevail? Nephi summed it up well, the Lord loveth those who will have him be their [00:21:00] God. Behold, he loved our fathers and he covenanted with them.
Yay. Even Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and he remembers the covenants, which he has made. What is the Lord willing to do for Israel? The Lord has pledged that he will fight our battles and our children's battles and our children's children's battles to the third and fourth generation. Oh, I love that because I'm a mom and I am a grandma, and if God is going to fight the battles of my children mm-hmm.
That's amazing. Of course, I would want to let him prevail so that he can take over and he can fight those fights. That is awesome. He is not unjust, is he? Mm-hmm And I think it goes back to then when you said why your covenants are so important to you. Because he's saying because of Abraham's and Isaacs and Jacob's covenants our for like think of the work with because they kept their covenants.
We're part of [00:22:00] that posterity. And so because we keep our covenants, all of our posterity will be blessed. That is so cool. God is not unjust to forget the labor of love that we do among his children. That is so cool. Thank you for sharing that. Mindy, anything to add, Katie? Yeah, I really loved that quote in the scripture verse before it, 'cause my husband, Seth and I have had a lot of conversations lately where we're like.
It just, it seems like people who do bad things get way ahead of people who are trying their best Right. To do the good stuff. It's that way. Yeah. And I love how God never forgets that we're doing good things in his name. And I also really like how it talks about how he will bless us so abundantly. Like not just us, but our children and our children's children.
And I think about how bad the world is. And I'm really nervous about raising children in this time, even though I know they can handle it and they're special and things like that. Because I just, I'm a control freak and I can't protect them [00:23:00] from everything. And I know that one of the best things I can do for them is to keep my covenants so that they are blessed and protected as well.
Mm-hmm. Wow. Thank you Katie. Thanks for sharing that both of you, Katie and Mindy. So this week's come follow me lesson, as we've talked about, is just filled with people and their stories of letting God prevail and people who love the Lord because they let him prevail and it was not easy or convenient.
So we're gonna talk more about that next.
Segment 3
So let's go back to how the whole story starts. We're gonna go to Genesis chapter 24, and I'm gonna kind of just give us a little bit of a rundown. This is the beautiful story, and as a seminary teacher, you love to teach this because at least I did, because this is where you get to talk about the future wife you want, and you put qualities on one side of the paper and then, um, all the things you want in your future spouse.
And then you come in as a teacher and say, okay, now draw a line to the other side of the paper of qualities you already possessed. And then your, you know, [00:24:00] your kids are like, wah, wah, I don't possess any of those. And then the whole point is, you better be as good as the person you wanna marry. That's Genesis 24.
You've got this great story about how Abraham says to his servant, you need to go find a wife for my son Isaac, because Sarah has died. She's been buried. That's in Genesis 23, verse 19. She's buried and now we need to take care of Isaac. And so Isaac sends Azar, and Azar then goes and he goes to this well, and he says a little prayer, and he says, whoever is going to marry my servant son, Isaac, she's gonna have to come and get water for my camels.
And before he's even done praying, that's one of my favorite parts of the whole story before he even finishes praying. That's in Genesis 24, verse 15. Beautiful. Rebecca comes out and starts giving water to all of his camels, and I love the word hasted. She is quick. She's doing it so fast. In verse 18, in verse 20, verse 20 even says she ran.
No thanks. I'm already out of the running. God knew he couldn't send me. It had to be so buff. Can I [00:25:00] just like insert that in there? She was so strong. I looked it up. How many camels? He has like 10? Yes. Tell me. Yeah, and it's like 10 gallons per, 10 to 20 gallons per camel. Like if they hadn't drank water in a long time.
And so she's like 200 gallons of water running back and forth to like, I'm like, this chick is CrossFit, before CrossFit existed. But she, I love that. Just got it figured out. Totally. And so Isaac sees this and he is like, that's the one. Thank you heavenly father for answering my prayer. And we have this great conversation that he then says, okay, well now take me to your family.
And he, and he actually gives her, in verse 22, a golden earring, a half a shuck away, two bracelets. That's sort of like the dowry, it's kind of the engagement gift and says, alright, I need you to come back with me and you're gonna marry my master's son, who is Isaac. So she then takes him to, and I love this, this is kind of cool.
In Genesis 24, verse 28, she takes him back and it says, and the damsel ran and told [00:26:00] them of her mother's house, these things. So some scholars believe that maybe her father was passed away, and so now they're going to the house of the mother. She's now in charge because you only hear about the mother and Rebecca's brother who were talking back and forth with the servant.
And so this whole conversation happens and Azar retells the story about, he prayed for Rebecca and she was an answer to prayers. And then he says, let me take him to Isaac so they can get married. And then in Genesis 24. They then the, the mother and the brother say, well, why don't you just let her stay for a couple of days?
That's in verse 55. Let her just stay for 10 days with us and then we're gonna send her to go and marry your son. And they said, well, let, Ellie Azar says, why don't we just ask her? I think she should come. And so they said, do you wanna go now or wait 10 days? And in verse 58 she says, I will go like right then.
Packs up everything, takes her servant with her or her nurse, is what it says. And then she goes and she gets to meet Isaac. And then we just love verse 67. It's kind of like the best [00:27:00] hallmark ending of any movie. Mindy, will you read verse 67? Can I add something while we're looking that up, please, Katie?
Ad Okay. So I love this story. I'm a hopeless romantic in the Bible, and I feel like we never get love stories in the Bible except for like, I love it. This. And I just love how like, it's like she saw him across the field and he started walking over to her. And I would imagine that Isaac is NoGo because his wi his mom was super beautiful.
Okay, that's good point. So he is like, who is that handsome man? And so she gets off her camel and they like start to, she's like, who is he? And they're like, oh, that's Isaac. And she's like, okay, ready to get married? Yeah, yeah, let's do this. I chose, well today. I didn't leave my family for nothing. We're getting married today.
You are hot and wealthy. This is gonna steal the, we're gonna steal the deal. That's awesome. Katie. I love you. Yep. That is perfect. It's exactly what she does. And then verse 67, it's is, do you just love the ending? I do. He loved her. I mean, you [00:28:00] very rarely hear of, of guys that loved women in the Bible. Oh, except for Jesus, right?
Yeah. Like I feel like, I like that Jesus talks about a lot about loving the women in his life or, or at least respecting them. And you just don't get to hear that like soft side in the Bible. Very much so. I love it. Let's read verse 67. Here we go. Here's how it ends. And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent and took Rebecca and she became his wife and he loved her.
And Isaac was comforted after his mother's death. Oh. And she healed his heart, his grieving heart. It is such a romantic story. Okay, so there they are. They're married. And then we have hardship in chapter 25 of Genesis in verse 21. Katie, will you read that for us please? And Isaac Entreated the Lord for his wife because she was barren.
The Lord was entreated of him and Rebecca, his wife, conceived. Thank you. And [00:29:00] if we read this and then verse 26, it's believed she was barren for 20 years. She was, it wasn't fertility for a couple months or a couple of years. That's a long time to be barren. And so he entres the Lord and she does get pregnant.
Okay, now we have the verse. Katie, talk to us about verse 22, because I love so much, I've highlighted this in my scriptures that you pointed this out and why did it stand out to you? And talk to us about this tight, this the whole point of this verse or this line I should say. I'm gonna try to be as articulate as possible.
I just have really strong feelings that I don't always have really strong words. I'm like the spirit will guide, but like, uh, you know, I love this verse because she'd waited so long. My heart just hurts for her because, you know, having a monthly reminder that what you really wanted wasn't gonna happen for 20 years.
That's really, really hard. And then she finally gets what she wants and these kids are like beating her up from the inside. Mm-hmm. [00:30:00] And she is like, what is happening? And so, you know, she said, if it be so why am I this? And I think that happens a lot in her lives where we get what we want. But it's so hard.
It's still so hard. Like there have been so many times in my life where like even, you know. I like our firstborn. I already mentioned that I'm pregnant, but our firstborn, we were really excited about. And she was born during COVID and like the day we woke up after we had her, the, the nurses come in in full personal protective gear and all like the masks and the shields and the gowns.
And they're like, yeah, this is all just precautionary, you know? And then everything shuts down. People forget like how bad the quarantine was and things like that. And it was really hard with a kid, with a baby. 'cause I was like, I don't know who to invite to my house to help me. There was like a lot of really big struggle and then postpartum depression.
And it was just a very, [00:31:00] very hard struggle. And I felt robbed of the time that I had with my newborn. I felt like it should have been a happy, happy time and it wasn't. And so I really relate to her question, if it be, so why am I this? And. Now that that time has passed and I've had some, uh, I've been able to go to some therapy and get some good medicine and like all of the things that you do.
Yeah. Like I look back at that and that was like one of the times when I was closest to God and I didn't know it. Like, and you know how sometimes when you go through depression you can't really feel the spirit very well. That's definitely, that was part of the thing that devastated me the most. But there would be times when I would just get like a drop of something.
Like I was in sacrament meeting and I was holding Gwen and she was kind of fussy and I would just kept thinking, man, I, I wish someone would just hold me like this because I'm, I'm so like distraught right now. And our bishop got up and was talking and then like [00:32:00] mid-sentence switched and he goes, you know, I just want you to know that your heavenly father wants to create what you so bad right now.
In his arms. And I was like, that, you know, I don't cry, but I was bawling. Like that was like one of the few times in my life where I've just like lost control. And I, I think that why is it this is because we'll never grow unless we don't have those moments, even though they're so awful and so terrible.
And God will always be close with us even though it doesn't feel like that. Like he'll always make sure that we know that he's there for us whenever we have those times. Wow. Katie, I, I appreciate so much the reality of your story and the way that you just related it to that. And so many of us listening are like, yes, we have felt that way.
I just wanna feel cradled. I'd love to know, Mindy, what your mom heart feels as Katie was sharing that, oh, I got to watch it. So. I had planned on [00:33:00] taking a week and helping Katie, and she is a very independent spirit and she let me know that she did not need my help. And you know, maybe part of that was because she was afraid of COVID, but she didn't want me to come and stay with her.
And then a few days after Gwen was born, she called me just in tears and she said, mom, I just need you. So I was able to go up and stay with her for a day or two and, and it was, it was hard to watch. She really struggled during that time. It's such a hard time. Such a hard time. And I look at this verse, Katie, in verse 22, and isn't it so beautiful that she says, if it be so, why am I thus?
And what's the very next thing she does in that verse? She inquires of the Lord. Yeah. She goes and prays. She goes and prays. Yeah. I think that shows like Rebecca's strength of character. She's one [00:34:00] of the people that I really wanna, I will. I hate lines. You know this about me. My mom knows this about me. Me too, me too.
I'll stand in line to talk to Rebecca in heaven. I mean like how are you so strong? Like the first thing she does when she's feeling distraught like this as she goes and she prays. Mm-hmm. And I think that's really telling us who she is. And I try to be like that, but sometimes I just wanna yell and scream and be like, this sucks.
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And in fact, the answer she gets is verse 23. Let's highlight that because we're gonna come back to this in the next segment. And the Lord said unto her, two nations are in thy womb. And two manner of people shall be separated from my bowels, and the one people shall be stronger than the other people, and the elder shall serve the younger.
You have to highlight that it's gonna be a very important role in our next segment story. But that's the answer that she gets. Now, to the outside of these verses to the outside of verses 22 through 23, we're gonna do another cross reference. And it's in [00:35:00] Hebrews again. So put Hebrews chapter 11, verse 40, and then a comma, and then put chapter 12, verse one, and then verse six.
So I'll say that again To the outside of verses 22 and 23, you wanna put Hebrews chapter 11, verse 40, which is the very last verse in Hebrews chapter 11. And then you wanna go to chapter 12, verse one, and then verse six, and let's turn there and read these. And one of the things we have to remember when we're reading the New Testament in the Old Testament is that chapters were put in later.
So just because there's a Chapter 12 doesn't necessarily mean that's a break in the story. It's just where somebody conveniently, the translators just decided to start a new chapter. So I often like to read my scriptures when I end the chapter with a verse. Sometimes I like to just read into the next verse of the next chapter because it connects so beautifully.
I don't know that I would've stopped right here. I probably would've put a stop somewhere else 'cause I [00:36:00] think 40. Plays so beautifully into verse one, and then I love verse six. So let's do that. Mindy, will you please read for us? Hebrews chapter 11, verse 40. But here's the fun thing. I don't want you to read, actually, verse 40.
I want you to read footnote A down below, because footnote 40 A is the Joseph Smith translation of this verse, which completely changes it. So after you read the Joseph Smith translation, then just go right into Hebrews chapter 12 verse one. We're gonna pretend it's all one chapter. God having provided some better things for them through their sufferings, for without sufferings, they could not be made perfect.
Square four. Seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witness. Let us lay aside every weight and the sin, which death so easily beset us and let us run with patience, the race that is set before us. Okay, now just munch on that for a little minute. [00:37:00] And Katie, gimme your thoughts 'cause you're a runner.
Oh yeah. I love that because I'm a slow runner and so when I say run with patients, I'm like, I do that. I just run really slow. No, I think that's like. You know, like we've been talking about, life is so hard and if you're trying to still like burn yourself out, it's not gonna work for you. And so you need to like take things slow.
I've been reading this book lately called The Comfort Crisis, and it talks about how we have built our lives up so much too. Eliminate all discomfort. Mm-hmm. And how actually discomfort can be a really good thing. Yeah. And it helps us grow in ways that, and it helps, it actually helps us make us happier sometimes.
And I, that doesn't make any sense to me, but I look at like this verse and it talks about, or without suffering, they could not be made perfect. Mm-hmm. And you see like, oh, I'm so glad there's a purpose behind this and that, you know, living a padded life actually wouldn't be very beneficial for us. We need to have a [00:38:00] little bit of growth and a little bit of tough in our lives.
Oh, Katie, I love that so much because then when you go to Hebrews chapter 12, verse six, I said, we do verse six, for whom? The Lord loveth he eth. Isn't that beautiful to think as a perfect father? 'cause sometimes as parents we wanna remove all obstacles. We wanna make life very comfortable for our kids and for ourselves.
And we often wonder why our own dad, our like heavenly father doesn't make things more comfortable for us. And just what you said, Katie is the perfect example. And then here he says, whom the Lord loveth? He tth. When you're going through that difficult time, it's because we have a perfect loving father who knows that that experience is gonna to absolutely be for our good in our perfection.
These verses are awesome. So lemme go back to Genesis 25 if it be so, why am I thus. Oh, because it's, it's for your good. All of this affliction. In fact, I think the Lord's like, get ready sis. Because, and you even look at this like 20 years of being barren. Now you have [00:39:00] twins and these twins are gonna be rough and it is gonna be hard raising them.
And so when it comes to that, we are gonna tell you in the next segment what exactly it looked like and the age old question. Did Rebecca trick Abraham and Esau? We'll answer that next.
Segment 4
I have a question for the two of you. Here it is. What are some simple things that you do on a daily basis just to survive?
And it can be emotionally, physically, mentally, anything besides eating nerd scummy clusters. Okay, now, hello. You're talking my love language. Don't you just love the lemonade flavor? I love 'em all. Forget about it. That new lemonade flavor's delicious. I bought a package the other day. Very good. Love it.
Nerds. Clusters, for sure. Keep going. That is my favorite answer. I actually wrote to the outside. Katie, talk to us about your McDonald's runs. Oh, yes. Yeah. I, I [00:40:00] am my mother's daughter and I, I also can't live without my sweet treats or without my treats, so I make a run. Okay. Full confession. I live like three minutes away from McDonald's.
I visit that place way too much. They know me, like I walk, I go through the drive-through and like I, I see the people I like in the mornings and I'm like, hi. And they're like Hi. And they give me my stuff. And it was really bad when I was in my first trimester, 'cause all I could eat was ice cream. And so I would go through at like 7:00 AM and be like, can I have an ice cream cone?
Oh. And they're like, sure.
That is so great. I love it. Perfect answers. Anything else to help you survive that you wanna add? I know it sounds very Sunday school answer, but we love those. I need to talk to my heaven father every day. And I do it sometimes I'm really lazy and I just do it in between, [00:41:00] snooze on my alarm. But I go through what my day is going to be like and where I'm gonna need him, and the strength that I'll need to get through that.
Mm. And I just kind of talk it out and it, it feels like it gives me strength, but it also helps me understand the things that I need to do and what his will is for me now, Mindy, that's really neat. I've never considered that before, but like you're calendaring with the Lord. My family does it every night before we go to bed.
Okay. What's on the dock for tomorrow? But you know what, you've just changed me. I'm gonna start calendaring with the Lord and including him in my plan for the day. And I love how you said and where I'm gonna need him the most. Wow. That's a neat thing. I've never thought of that. Thank you for inspiring me.
You're welcome. Very cool. Any other answers, Katie? I, I also have to, I have to pray every day, and it's not always like a super formal prayer, but I don't know, I get, I'm such a scaredy cat at heart, and [00:42:00] so I always have to ask for reassurances. I'm like, oh, please bless that. You know, everybody will be safe today and mm-hmm.
Like, also like, and I, if I'm doing something, I'm like, am I doing the right thing? Yeah. Like, am I doing what you want me to do? Like, and I usually get like good feelings if it's good and bad feelings if it's bad. But like, I just, I need that constant, like, what do you think about this? You know, type of thing.
Like, I really like hearing God's input in my life, is what I'm trying to say. Yeah. And I also like knowing that he is like looking after me even when I don't think that he is, you know? Mm-hmm. I just love knowing that he's always looking after me and my family. I like how you said hearing God's input.
That is so perfect. Both of you when you talked about praying and hearing God's input. Let's apply that to this verse of scripture. Turn in Genesis. We're going to go to Genesis chapter. We're still here, Genesis chapter 25, and we're gonna look at verse 23, which I said we would talk about and we have a quote.
[00:43:00] This is from President Nelson again in his Let God prevail talk. Mindy, we please read this quote for us. During these perilous times of which the Apostle Paul prophesied Satan is no longer even trying to hide his attacks on God's plan, emboldened, evil abounds. Therefore, the only way to survive spiritually is to be determined, to let God prevail in our lives, to learn to hear his voice, and to use our energy to help gather Israel.
Okay, so we've done a great job talking about letting God prevail in our lives, but I love this new edition when it comes to survival for us to learn to hear his voice. And in Genesis chapter 25, verse 23, this is one of the few experiences where the Lord speaks directly to a woman in the Bible. So you wanna highlight that 'cause here's the Lord speaking to Rebecca, and we'll read this verse one more time.
Katie, will you read it for us? Okay. And the Lord said unto her, two nations are in thy womb. And two manner of people shall be [00:44:00] separated from thy bowels. And the one people shall be stronger than the other people. And the elder shall serve the younger. Okay, now Mindy, this stood out to you when you were preparing for this episode.
Talk to us about this story and, and what your understanding is about what's going on. And we're gonna answer that question. Did Rebecca and Jacob trick Abraham and Issa? I felt like Rebecca received personal revelation right there. I feel like the Lord told her this is how it's going to be, and I wonder, it doesn't really say, but I wonder if she counseled with Isaac about this.
Oh, I love that. And because Isaac kind of preferred Esau and she kind of preferred Jacob. Mm-hmm. Maybe he didn't listen to her. I don't know. I don't know how that went, but I felt like she had this revelation and she knew how it should be, and she kind of took [00:45:00] things into her own hands and made it happen.
I completely agree with you. What do you think Katie? Yeah, I agree. Sometimes you just have to get it done. Amen. You know, it's kind of funny because a lot of times people will say, many of the heroes, many of the women in the Old Testament, they, I've heard people call them meddlers. They're just kind of butting their nose in where it doesn't belong.
They're changing the scenario, and I don't agree at all. The work of women in the Old Testament is divinely orchestrated. They divinely orchestrate the situations to turn out the way that God wants them to be turned out. And I think she divinely orchestrated this scenario because here's what's so fascinating to me in the story.
So go with me into the scriptures. One of the things we do is when we read Genesis 25, we read about how these two boys are born. And the next thing we know in verse 29 of Genesis 25 is Jacob sod or mean cooking. He's cooking potage. [00:46:00] Esau comes in from the field, he's faint. And then Esau says to Jacob, feed me.
And Jacob goes, you bet. Just sell me your birthright. Now the birthright, we have to understand this is a big deal. The birthright means that the child who gets the birthright gets a second inheritance. So he gets two inheritances because the job is to take care of everybody in the family from here on out.
So he will have to take care of any women whose brothers die, or uncles or cousins, like he has to take on that he will help provide for these. This is the kinsman we've talked about over the years. He's gonna provide for them. He's going to go to battle for them. So the birthright is more than just like the word is so big.
And so right here he says, sell me your birthright. And Issa goes, well, what is it to me if I'm dead? Whatever. Great have it. And then it ends with an Esau despised his birthright. And in our minds, we just think they're little kids that they're teenagers because they were born and then this happens. But somewhere along the line, when the Old Testament was [00:47:00] put together, it was sort of woven together and chapters maybe might not necessarily be in order because it could be that 25, 26 and 27 might be a little bit out of order in that.
The story in chapter 26 then starts to tell the storyline of Rebecca and Isaac and how they were in charge of tents and how Isaac took care of his family. It's, it's a little bit like the storyline, like here's what they did all those years. Before they saw their, before he sold his potage. And then you get to the end of chapter 26 and in 26, verse 34 and 35, it says, Esau was 40 years old when he took the wife, Judith, the daughter of Bii, the Hitite and BMA moth, the daughter of Elon, the Hitite, which were a grief of mind to unto Isaac and Rebecca.
So he married out of the covenant and he didn't consult with his parents and they were devastated that he didn't keep his covenants anymore. So it might be he married out of the covenant and that's why [00:48:00] he despised his birthright. It didn't matter to him anymore. So we have a little more context. He probably was older, around 40 years old when this happened.
And so when he's having this conversation with his brother, he was far gone. He was like, what does it matter to me anyway? I don't even really care. Like, go ahead, have it, because the covenant thing matters more to you. And so that's might be where the storyline is. It, it fits right there in, in chapter 25 verses 31 through 34.
That's where chapter 26 might go. And then we get into chapter 27. So now we have these older men and somehow Rebecca has to make sure that the birthright goes to Jacob. And so then she divinely orchestrates this awesome experience because going back to she heard his voice, the Lord spoke to her and she knew what she needed to do.
So I agree with you, Mindy. I think you're 100% right. That is so good. Any comments? Anything you wanna jump in in and say? I just like to think, you know, it talks about how [00:49:00] Esau was red and hairy. Does Esau kinda have roots in red because Edam means red and it says that they called him Edem after. Yes.
That's exactly it. And then like, uh, Jacob's name means supplanter. Mm-hmm. Like to tape. So I feel like Rebecca was setting this up.
I like it. She's like, I'm gonna tell you how this is gonna play out. I'm gonna name them. Oh yeah, yeah. And then, you know, I, I just think it's, I think a lot about Jacob and Esau and I totally relate. 'cause I feel like my older sister is like so cool and she can do anything and everything. And then I'm over here like the little like nerdy person who's like, I can tell you all about the Lord of the Rings if you want to.
Sometimes it's just always been like this really cool person and not that I ever felt like she was like favored above me or anything like that, but I can kind of see Jacob being like, [00:50:00] oh, uh, I really wish that. You know, people would recognize how cool I am too. So like maybe it was a good thing. What about you?
That he eventually left. Yeah. And so that he could be the cool guy in his own right. You know? I don't know. Anyway, that's fun. That is so f Yes. Thank you for sharing that. Well, after this all shakes down in chapter 27, and you can see how upset Esau is. In fact, verse 41 says, Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing.
Wherewith his father, blessed him like hated so much. And then that leads to the whole storyline where then his mom says, you gotta get outta here. Your brother wants to kill you. And so Jacob does leave. And then that's how he comes across Leah and Rachel and that whole storyline. Again, we have to go back to this idea where Rebecca just heard the voice of the Lord and she knew what she needed to do, and that's one of the best forms of spiritual survival.
That when she was in that moment, Katie, that you shared with us, which again, I think that verse is so great when she says to the Lord, if it be not so, [00:51:00] why am I thus? And she went and inquired of the Lord in her moment of hurt, in her moment of not understanding. She does the one thing like she just prays and God speaks to her.
Here's what President Nelson has to say about how important it is for us to be able to hear the voice of the Lord. This is in his talk called Hear Him in April of 2020. And Katie, can you read this for us please? As we seek to be disciples of Jesus Christ, our efforts to hear him need to be ever more intentional.
It takes conscious and consistent effort to fill our daily lives with his words, his teachings, his truths. We simply cannot rely upon information we bump into on social media with billions of words online and in a marketing saturated world constantly infiltrated by noisy nefarious efforts As an adversary, where can we go to hear him?
Wow, isn't our prophet so wise? I'm just looking at this quote, realizing how in he is with things and knowing that then he gives some really great ways of how we can [00:52:00] go to hear him. He says, we can read our scriptures. We can hear him in the temple. We can hear him as we refine our ability to recognize the whispers of the Holy Ghost.
And we hear him as we heed the words of prophets, Sears and Revelators. So with those four things, and we're gonna put those online this week on Instagram and Facebook, and what I want you to do is look at those 'cause we wanna issue a challenge to everyone to this week. Choose one way to spiritually survive.
One way that you can hear him. Maybe it's reading the scriptures more, going to the temple or figuring out how the Holy Ghost speaks to you, or listening to the words of prophets, Sears and Revelators. And I'd just like to know from you, Mindy and Katie, how does the Holy Ghost speak to you? How do you know what that feels like?
'cause it's so different for everyone. I'd just love to give an idea of what it's like for both of you.
For me, it's really weird 'cause it's almost like I like that I don't actually like, hear someone talking to me like, you know, it's, it's more like I hear a voice in my head that tells me, [00:53:00] uh, what to do or, or like, at least a strong feeling and it's, mm-hmm. It's kind of interesting because it, I always know it's not me because sometimes it uses words I would never, ever use.
Oh yes. Like one time it used a word that was like requisite and I was like, I don't think I have ever used the word requisite in my entire life. Oh, that's good. Yeah. So that's how I know it's different. It feels different, but also the thoughts are a little bit different than what I would use. Wow. Great definition.
So I felt like I kind of had to fine tune what it was like to hear him when I was younger. I would pray for something. And this happened, I prayed for something that I really wanted and I got this fluttery feeling in my chest and I thought, oh, that must be because I'm getting a positive yes. Go, go ahead and go forward with this.
And as I got older, I realized that is not how the spirit [00:54:00] feels to me when I'm getting a positive, oh, that it's okay and, and this is what you should do. I feel a complete peace that completely comes over me and I feel calm. And in my adult life, I've had a lot of anxiety and sometimes I get things worked up in my head, and if I pray about it, I can receive that peace and that calming feeling that I only get from the spirit and I have to make sure that I to hear him, I have to be in a quiet place.
Mm-hmm. So. You rarely will ever see me in my car with the radio on. That's my quiet place. I'm all alone. Nobody bothers me. I turn off the radio and I can talk to my heavenly father and I can hear him and, and just like Katie, sometimes things will come to my mind and they are not me, and I'll make a phone call or send a text and then [00:55:00] later find out that that friend that I sent it to is going through something very hard.
Mm-hmm. But for some reason, right then it felt urgent that I text them or, or call them. Wow. I love what both of you shared. It reminded me of a time in my life. The spirit speaks to me too by giving me words and peace because I was going through something and I was praying to Heavenly Father, and, and I, it was a really yucky situation in my life.
And I'm like, heavenly father, help me through this. Like, what am I doing? And I wasn't getting along with someone. And so I got on my knees thinking he's gonna give me the best advice that I'm gonna need to get through this situation with this person that I'm, I'm really at odds with. And I got on my knees and started to pray, and I felt peacefully.
And the spirit said, you've been really surly lately. And I was like, I had to get into dictionary. I don't even know what that word meant. I'm not even kidding. I'm like, what does ly mean? And then I looked it up and I'm like, not the answer. I was hoping for Heavenly Father, thanks a lot. Like, I just think it's [00:56:00] amazing how he really will give you the answer you need in the moment, but you have to be willing to accept it.
And I was, I was seeking any and all help that I could get. And it's so fascinating to me that in every one of the stories that we've been talking about here today, one thing that these people have done has been consistent throughout. And we're gonna talk about what that one thing is in the next segment.
Segment 5
Ooh, let's find out what that one thing is. This is super duper fun. I wanna know from the two of you, what is a meaning associated with someone raising their hand? Uh, they're either volunteering for something or they wanna ask a question, is what I think. Okay. Very good. Volunteering or wanna ask a question?
What else? They wanna make a comment. Like that. Very good. Absolutely. Okay. That's an important gesture in our community and, and if everything we've been raised with as a teacher, you can't even speak in my classroom unless you raise your hand. You gotta be quiet. Like I, and I love, like tonight at dinner, we had [00:57:00] some neighbors over and one of my daughters was frustrated 'cause little kids were so loud.
She's like, you're need to raise your hand. And I, no, they're only three, but they're not in our house. They're gonna be fine. But I wanna show you an important scripture about this idea of raising hands because I think it's beautiful. Let's turn to Ezekiel chapter 20, verse 15, because you guys said they wanna say something, they wanna volunteer for something.
But I love this definition of a raised hand. So Ezekiel chapter 20, verse five. Let's go there. 'cause this is a reference in scripture where God raises his hand and it's for a very specific reason. And when we get there, Katie, can you read that for us? And say unto them, thus sayeth the Lord God, in the day when I choose Israel and lift up my hand unto the seed of the house of Jacob and made myself known unto them in the land of Egypt, when I lifted up my hand unto them saying, I am the Lord your God.
Okay, so twice he lifted up his hand in that moment. And when [00:58:00] God's hand is raised in scripture, it's a sign of power. And how much do we love in that verse when he says, in the day, when I chose eight Israel in the day when I chose you, I showed you my power. And I love the beauty of this that we are chosen.
There's so many different references, and we have these in our show notes where it says, the Lord has chosen us. He's chosen us before all the tribes of Israel. The Lord has chosen us. He set his afflict. He has, I love the one in Deuteronomy, and we'll put this in our show notes. It says, yet the Lord set his affection on your ancestors and love them, and he chose you.
There's so much beauty in this idea that he chooses us and then he raises his hand to show us his power that he can prevail in our lives. Absolutely prevail. And Katie, you pointed this out when you wrote to me about some things that stood out to you because you said that God prevailed in all the stories every time someone chose him.
So talk to me about how you saw that. Because one of the things I love is that God chooses us. We've [00:59:00] already been chosen. We can't fix that. We can't make him unchosen at all. We are chosen That is set in stone. So now the choice is will we choose him? And every one of these stories, the thing is, is that they chose him.
So tell me what you meant by that when you wrote to me. I thought it was so good. Yeah. I mean, I just went through kind of a book of Mormon blitz thing for my own scripture study. Mm-hmm. And it astounded me about how many people, like how many people would not choose God. And so when I look at. Jacob and Isaac and Rebecca and Rachel and all of them that had to choose God.
I'm very impressed with them. Like every time they chose him, God blessed him and God prevailed in their stories every time. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, Jacob wrestled, Isaac risked, his safety relationships were tested, family ties restrained. My mom brought up that she loves her family. She does. And I think one thing that my mom, my dad did really well was teaching us loyalty within our family.[01:00:00]
Mm-hmm. Like we may fight like cats and dogs, but if one of us needs anything, we'll drop everything and go. And I always joke, I'm like, I don't text my si, I don't text my sisters, but I would commit felonies for them. Good job Mindy. Way to go. Mom and dad. Larson. Yeah. Yeah. So you're like, maybe you should text.
Yeah, yeah. Maybe we should, um, wishing ourselves more. But anyway, um, so that was really, that stood out to me too, is they were willing to even test their family ties, but every time they did what was right, instead of what was easy, like God was there. And they really do believe that. I think it was Neil a Maxwell, who said like, the only thing unique that we have to offer to God is our will.
Mm-hmm. And so the moment that we give him our will and we surrender and we give up control, that's when he can prevail in our lives. That's when he will bless us. And you see that again and again. Every time somebody like chooses to stick with what God told him, he visits [01:01:00] them after that trial and is like, kind of like, thank you for choosing me and now Yeah.
I'll bless you. You know, it's really cool. Yes. Oh, it's so cool. And in these storylines, every storyline was messy. Every story that we got to read in all these chapters was hard and fraught with disappointment and heartache. And like I just always go back to the one about Jacob where he had to work for seven years for Leah and seven years for Rachel.
It would've been so easy to be like, I'm out. Like, this is ridiculous. Are you kidding me? He could have been so mad at God. He could have been angry at all of it. And, and he didn't. He just, he worked, you know, put his head down and trudged and, and worked for Laben and then it, and it all worked out for him in the end.
I mean, you can just see all of these storylines. You see this thread where these people choose God and it's not even an audible, they're not like choosing God out loud, but their actions show that they've absolutely chosen him and stayed true to him. And so there's so much beauty in this because by doing that, then the Lord can [01:02:00] bless us like you just said, Katie.
And so one of the things I want us to just. Really quickly talked about is how do we do that then How are you, Katie, showing your children to choose him? And maybe Mindy, what's something you did as a mom? I mean, even Katie, you could, I mean, you already talked about your parents, but what is an example of a way you've taught your kids to choose him?
Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about this the other day because, and everyone has these times, whether they have kids or not, it's just really hard to get to church. Like there's just something going on and it can be like really difficult for one reason or the other to get there. And one day I was like, uh, you know, I could, I have a really good excuse.
I'm pregnant and I'm just not feeling well. I can stay home. But then I looked at Gwen, I'm like, but then she won't be able to experience the blessings of going to church. And so I, you know, like we, we went and then as we were walking into the building, you know, [01:03:00] and just to give you a background, like Gwen's hair was a mess.
She was not wearing anything that matched. She had picked her own outfit and she wouldn't let us change her. And I was just like, oh my gosh, okay, here we go. This is gonna be one of those things. And I just got this feeling like, thank you so much for coming. Like that's all that matters to me is that you came.
Mm-hmm. And so I think that's doing the things that we, even if like doing the small things, I think really show that we let God prevail in our lives. I don't think it has to be a huge thing, like wanting to, like being willing to sacrifice our first and only son or whatever. You know, like, it, it doesn't have to be anything big like that.
It's just the small things. Being willing to pray and, and read scriptures and do all those things, I think really show God that we care and we want him to be in our lives more. What a sweet example. Just going to church, even if your kid is a mess. I think that's awesome. Wow. One time we had a guest who had all boys, and that was she, she told a story about how she got her kids [01:04:00] to church finally, and they all got outta the car and her youngest was in sweats.
She's like, you know what? I don't even care. Like, we're here sweats in a white shirt. She's like, yes. And he was gonna pass the sacrament like that. And she's like, oh, I'm gonna be so embarrassed. But we're here. So I love that. Katie, Mindy, I think raising my children, um, just quietly and consistently doing the things that my heavenly father wanted me to do and teaching them the things that they needed to know.
Just consistency. And I remember having a fight with one of my, well fight an argument with one of my, it was, it was a fight. One of my particularly difficult teenagers. And I was able to tell that child, these are my standards. These will always be my standards. They're never gonna change. They're always gonna be this way.[01:05:00]
And by living by example and showing my kids that, that they, these are the quiet things that you need to do consistently. Now, on a side note, I did take my kids to church alone a lot. My husband was in the military and he would be gone at least once a month. He would be gone to drill, but he also was deployed several times and, and he wouldn't, wouldn't be there with me.
In addition to that, with his civilian job, he traveled a lot. So I was alone with my kids quite a bit, and I had these beautiful. Girls, they were blonde and beautiful and they were wearing matching sister dresses. And we got into church and before the opening song, one of them turned and full fisted hit her sister.
What? We got off and left.[01:06:00]
Oh, that's good. But I was there and I made the effort and we, we sure tried, but I just, you can't compete with that. No baby steps though. I love that. I love that story. Yeah. There's so many people can relate to that. That is good. Oh, I like that. You don't need to put that in the, in the podcast, but Oh, we will.
That's the, that's a great story. That is, that's a great story. Because here, that's the reality of life. That is real. Uh, but you know what I think, and here's what we know. We know this for sure in our church. The Lord loves effort. And I think we need to remember that because there's so much effort that took place in all of these stories and there's effort in our lives.
There's absolute effort. And so here's the question though, and I think a lot of us have been in these, this, I think a lot of us have been in this space, and maybe there's some of us listening right now who are currently in this space, which is when we are performing effort. If the Lord loves effort, then why isn't he prevailing in my [01:07:00] life?
We'll talk about that next.
Segment 6
So that is a very real situation for many of us, is I am putting forth all the effort I could possibly put forth. So what happens when I feel like God isn't prevailing in my life? That's real. And I think one of the things Satan loves to do is make sure to just put that in all caps.
When we're having a bad day, like God is not prevailing. You're completely on your own. Nobody cares. So in this storyline, Mindy, you pointed out that sometimes it feels like the how and the when isn't really working out. So give me an example of that in the scripture stories and tell me what you meant by that.
Well, I noticed in, in all of these stories, in this week's, um, reading, everyone had their own individual problems. Mm-hmm. Rebecca. Couldn't get pregnant for a long time. And she had twins that fought within her. Rachel couldn't get pregnant. She wanted babies so badly. [01:08:00] She told Jacob, if you don't gimme a baby, I'm gonna die.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. She wanted them so badly. We all have difficult stories and all we need to do is be willing to let God prevail in our lives. And as soon as we're willing to let him prevail, he will. We need to keep the commandments. We need to harken the words of the prophet. And it may not happen on our timeline.
It may take 20 years, it may be quickly, but it will happen. And um, our heavenly Father will bless us. Mindy, thank you for telling us that. In fact, let's read this quote. We have one last quote from President Nelson from his Let God prevail talk, which is exactly in line with what you just said. And Katie, can you please read this quote for us?
Are you willing to let God prevail in your life? Are you willing to let God be the most important influence in your life? Will you allow his words, his commandments, and his [01:09:00] covenants to influence what you do each day? Will you allow his voice to take priority over any other? Are you willing to let whatever he needs you to do take precedence over every other ambition?
Are you willing to have your will swallowed up in his? So, here's my question for you. When has, is there a time in your life when the word prevail turned out totally different than you ever imagined, but it was way better? God did prevail. Yeah. I have a time if you're okay with that, mom. Mm-hmm. So I, I mean, I've always wanted to serve a mission and I like.
Uh, I love sharing the gospel with other people, even if it's just by example. Like I really, really love it and I've noticed that God has given me a lot of opportunities in my professional and private life to do that. So when I was younger, I was preparing to go on a mission and I, I even had a really strong feeling about where they would call [01:10:00] me.
So I was like, getting ready. And then this kind of goes back to that experience where it was, it was the, the Holy Ghost, and it wasn't my thought. And I was just walking, I was in college and I was walking from the parking lot to my apartment, and I just got this really, like, overpowering thought come in my head that's like, it is no longer requisite for you to serve a mission.
Wow. And I was broken. I was so sad. I was like, did I do something wrong? Like, why can't I go serve a mission? I was very upset about it. And I, I almost was like, well, I'm just gonna talk to the bishop anyway and get my papers in because like, I, again, like, I'm just like, so I just, uh, anyway, so I, I listened to that and I didn't do that.
And it was really interesting because right after that happened I met my husband. Wow. Just like, you know, this is like one of those really cheesy stories, you know, that we hear all the time. But I wasn't expecting to get married young. I already had a [01:11:00] plan set out with my roommate that we would become crazy cat ladies together and we would like buy houses next to each other and we travel the world.
'cause I just never saw myself getting married in my twenties or anything like that. And so, um, I met Seth and it turned out that it was like within a year and a half, which was like forever and more mandating, I thought I was just like wasting away waiting for him to ask me to marry him. Like. But we got married and it has turned out to be so much better than the life that I had planned.
And I am just like, every day I just wake up and I'm like, this was not my plan, but it is so much better than my plan. Like I just can't believe how blessed I've been because I didn't put in my mission papers. 'cause Seth has told me, my husband said this, told me that he would not date anyone that was gonna go on a mission.
And I'm like, wow, you jerk. Wow, Katie, I didn't know that story. That is so cool. That's a great story. Do we But to feel [01:12:00] so strongly about doing something so good and so Right. And to have the spirit tell you the complete opposite, that's nuts. Wow. Great. Great example of God prevailing in your life. Thank you.
What about you Mindy? I had a time, uh, we lived in. A nice neighborhood. I raised my children there. It was comfortable, it felt safe. And I was driving home one night alone, my quiet car, my safe place. And um, it was as if someone was sitting next to me, they said, this isn't your home anymore. And I thought, oh yeah, it's so, um, that kind of planted the seed that it was time for us to move and I didn't know why.
Mm-hmm. And, um. And so we, we found a home that we wanted to move to and everything was great. It was perfect. It was perfect house for us at the time I had my daughter and [01:13:00] her husband and son living with us and this had the perfect place for them to live with us. And it was great. And um, incidentally, this is about the same time that Katie was dating Seth and just a few days before Christmas, the sale of this, the purchase fell through and we no longer had a home to move into.
And we were moving on January 6th. So I spent a long teary Christmas break looking for another home. And it felt like God just picked us up and put us where we needed to be. We needed to be there, there. I'm sure there's many reasons why we needed to be in the home that we're in right now, but one of the reasons was Katie's sister had said.
You know, I don't think I would've ever considered going on a mission if we hadn't have moved. Wow. And so that was one way that people supported her and my husband has thrived in this new place. But that was a way we [01:14:00] let God prevail. And it definitely did not look like I had planned. I didn't plan on moving.
I don't know why we moved. Um, but we did it and we moved to a different place than I planned. And, and God has definitely prevailed in our lives because we were obedient to him. Wow. Thank you Mindy, for sharing that. I like how you said we were obedient to him. You know, it's interesting as I think back on my life too.
I, I didn't see God prevailing in my life. It took 20 years for me to see God prevailing in my life. And I think that sometimes we have to hold out. I didn't know that until it happened. But here's a story that happened just recently. I was asked to speak to a group of singles, like a, a big stake singles fireside.
And as I was speaking to them, I shared with them that when I was single, my roommate got married and she was 32 and I was like 29. And I, I wouldn't even get married till I was almost 35. But I remember she'd been married for a couple of years and she said to me, you're gonna [01:15:00] love being married because even my worst day being married is still better than my best day being single.
And I was like, you are nuts. Like, I can't even have, I don't have a place for that. Like, what are you talking about being single's the best I get to spend my money how I want. I get to do whatever I want. And I, it really struck me when she was like, even my worst day. Being married is still better than my best day being single.
So I told them this. I told the single people that and I said, I have to tell you, after 20 years of being married now I don't agree with her statement at all. It was the spirit that said this. And I recognized it the moment that I said it. And I said, my answers a little bit different. I will tell you this, that even my very worst day being single prepared me for my best day being marriage because I learned how to rely on the Lord constantly when I was single.
And my worst days being single were pretty bad. And I prayed [01:16:00] nonstop all those years. And now here I am married and I have gone to him more than I ever thought I would. And I think I love Mindy that you're saying you every time you drive the the radios off, 'cause you're praying. That's a true statement.
Oh my goodness, how much do we pray? And I'm so grateful. I would never have imagined that all those years being single would've found, created a foundation in me to go to the Lord now as a married person as much as I do. And so 20 years later I figured that out and went, oh yeah, that was really, I'm glad that God prevailed in my life because he has consistently prevailed now as a mom and all the things.
And so whatever it is you're going through at the time, just know that God will prevail. He chose you. It's a done deal. And so he's going to absolutely continue to recognize the good that you're doing and he loves you. And we're so, I'm so grateful for the two of you for coming so well prepared. This has been a great discussion of all these chapters.
It was so much. Thank you, you guys. You knocked it outta the park. Good job, Katie and Mindy. [01:17:00] Okay. So God, your thoughts and what's your takeaway or what's your, what eternal truth did you learn today from our discussion? What's something that stood out to you or that you marked that you remember? I think for me, and it's in the last line of the last quote from President Nelson, are you willing to have your will swallowed up in his?
And the key to that is willing, are you willing to let him prevail? And, um, that's all we need to do is to be willing and God will bless us. Amen. I agree. Katie. So my takeaway was Hebrews chapter 11, verse 40 in the Joseph Smith translation. I. I don't know. I'm, I'm the kind of person who really likes comfort.
Like right now, as we're recording, I'm in my comfy clothes and my comfy socks and I have my comfy minky. And I just really love comfort and [01:18:00] suffering. Makes me really uncomfortable and, and yeah, sad, like it does with everybody else, I think. But I love how there's always a purpose for suffering. Um, 'cause in the, in that scripture it says, for without sufferings, they could not be made perfect.
And I think about Isaac and Jacob and their families and how good these guys were. Like, they were so good and they still had to suffer so much. Mm-hmm. And how God didn't waste that. It wasn't just to suffer, just to suffer. There was always a purpose. There was always something that they needed to attain through that suffering that they could get no other way.
And I'm just so grateful that we have a God who does that, who isn't just, oh, it's your turn to to be picked on this week. Sorry. You know, it's like there's always, there's always a goal. There's always something he wants for us and he's always gonna be right next to us. He's never gonna leave us alone in our suffering.
He's always gonna be right there cheering us on through it. Oh, I like that. That's what was my takeaway. I had two, one from you [01:19:00] Katie was earlier on when you said the hard times are an opportunity for growth. And that's kind of been the theme throughout this for you. Um, 'cause you said that early on and you ended with it that God didn't waste their sufferings.
I think that is so great. And then Mindy, I love it. I love the idea of calendaring with the Lord in the morning when you're praying. That's gonna really hit me tomorrow morning when I wake up and I'm like, okay, and here's what I'm gonna really need you 'cause I do that, but I don't really do that. So thank you for that great visual.
I loved it. Oh wow. Okay. What did you learn? What's your eternal truth? Go join our group on Facebook and follow us on Instagram to share what you have learned at the end of the week. Usually on a Saturday, we're gonna post a question from this discussion. And the question that I want to know is, how do you hear him comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts.
You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com/SundayonMonday and go there anyway, because it's where we have links to all the references and a transcript of this whole discussion.
The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our incredible study group participants were Katie Lambert and Mindy Larson.
And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week, and please remember, oh, please remember that you are God's favorite and he's already chosen you.