Season 7 Ep. 13 Transcript | Sunday on Monday

Segment 1

Years ago, I was really into hiking, and every year I would make it a point to hike to Stewart Falls, which is by Sundance, Utah. Well, one year as I was hiking with a boy who I totally had a crush on, by the way, I mistepped and slid down the side of this mountain and I fell with my arms up in the air and they slid down into a large bush of stinging metal.

Now, I had heard somewhere in my camping years that if you ever fall into stinging nettle and get stung, and for the record, it really does sting that you should look around for lambs ear because that is the natural antidote. So I, as fast as I could, looked all around and I eventually found some lambs ear and I ripped the leaves off and I rubbed them on my arms.

And I did feel relief, like it totally worked. But the stinging, it didn't go entirely away, but it did make me feel better. And thinking back to the effort that it took to find the balm to my burn. And as I was reading and preparing for this week's Come Follow Me discussion of Exodus chapters one through six, [00:01:00] I was reminded of this stinging nettle story because these six chapters are filled with stories of stinging nettle and lambs, ear burns and balm, which isn't that what life's about anyway.

And for the record, that boy that I was hiking with, oh boy, was that ever a burn? And years after looking around, I eventually found my balm. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a DT Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living where we take the come Follow Me lesson for the week, and we really dig into the scriptures together.

I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and if you're new to our study group, follow the link in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come Follow Me study, just like my longtime listening friend Julie Franson at the Draper Temple. I loved meeting you, Julie.

Now, another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, and so it's always a little bit different. And today I am so excited to introduce you to my two friends. I love these two so much, and we spent New Year's Eve together. You've got Dr. Ben Ti and Dr. Heidi [00:02:00] Voer, and I have to say that because you guys, they earn their PhD and anybody that does that in my book is going to be deserved to be called a doctor.

Hi guys. Hello. Hello. Yay. This makes me so happy. Okay, we did, we rang in the new year together and we did it over cheese. Jesus scallops. We did so much fun. Do. And you know that I love scallops and you had a whole plate, and I had more than a dozen. Ugh. And my house wreaked like scallops for weeks after Heidi.

I couldn't get rid of the smell. Ugh, you're so generous to do that. Thank you. I really am. 'cause I do anything fishy grosses me out. But Ben's spends a long time, uh, comer of the, the New Year's Eve party. He's always on our invitation list. So now you are Heidi, just by nature. Sweet. We just love you. Um, how do you two know each other?

Because this is a fun story. Go for it, Ben. I'll go first. So our, our friendship story kind of started around hiking near Stewart Falls. We first met at a focus group for a new single adult ward in Provo where we, we both live. [00:03:00] Heidi and I are both single adults and a new bishop. Rick was called. They wanted to do a focus group.

And so I met Heidi at this focus group and I used to work with her sister, so I recognized her from her last name. And so we talked, we exchanged numbers and then a few weeks later I was setting up two other friends and we decided to go on like a hike. And I invited Heidi to come with me so that I would have someone to talk to while I tried to convince my friend friends to flirt and, and we were just past Stewart Falls.

How cool is that? I didn't know you even knew or, I mean, I assumed you would know where Stewart Falls is 'cause everyone knows, but. Now, that's kind of a cool connection. Yeah. All three of us, Stewart Falls. Yes. Did that couple we get together? No. All right. They, but they're both married to other people now.

And Heidi and I are not married to each other, but we're very good friends. Indeed. In the words of Ben, if I could live with anybody else, I'd live with Heidi. That, that's true. Ben didn't tell me what my role was on this hike, so I was very [00:04:00] confused for the first half of the hike because I was like, I know I'm not on a date with Ben, but it seems like these other two people are on a date and I have no idea what's going on.

Right. And then I, then we figured it out. And so Ben's gotten a little better communicating with me, but that was, that was a little Trixie that first time. Yeah. I should have said, Heidi, this isn't a date. Clearly. Um, not that you're not dateable. Um, but she's dateable. But we are here to talk. Well, my friends hopefully fall in love, which they didn't, but they fell in love with other people, so it all worked out.

There you go. 'cause eventually it does. That's what I'm saying. Yes, eventually. Exactly. Eventually we find our lambs there. This is what it is. So, okay, well this is gonna be a fun discussion. 'cause I was telling Heidi and Ben, this is probably the most loose I've ever been with an outline, because usually it's very detailed.

But these two were smart and they understood the assignment. And I'm very excited because we're just gonna apply this idea of stinging nettle in lambs ear to the whole study of Exodus chapter one through six. So if you wanna [00:05:00] know more about my guests, you're gonna wanna read their bios and see their pictures, especially Heidi's 'cause she's super cute.

And you're going to wanna find those@ldsliving.com. Well, Ben, you're handsome too. Let's be clear. But you've been on before. Thank you. Everybody knows you're good looking. Yeah, clearly. Heidi's new, uh, you'll find their bios at lds living.com/sunday on Monday. So grab your scriptures and something to mark them with and even little sticky notes.

'cause for the record, I have sticky notes all over in Exodus one through six with little things that say stinging nettle, lambs ear. And we're gonna dig into Exodus chapters one through six. Okay. YouTube, before we even get into Exodus one through six with storyline, tell me what did the Holy Ghost teach you as you were preparing for this episode?

Oh, so many things that I just hopefully will touch on a lot of them. But the, probably the overarching one that it taught me was, um, and this is not even the scripture from Exodus, but it's second Nephi 27 verse 20. And it says, um, the [00:06:00] Lord is talking. He says, I am able to do my own own work. Wow. And I feel like.

That was the theme of Exodus of these chapters of, I can do my work, like your instruments. You're gonna help me out, but I'm able to do my own work. And that the spirit was like, Heidi, you are no different than all these people in the scriptures. You've made covenants and God has a work to do and he's gonna do it.

And so just be still and go on, come along for the ride. I wanna know how you got there. How did you get from Exodus to second Nephi, chapter 27 verse 20. That's so cool. That would be the spirit. Like it was in Exodus three eight it says, and I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians.

And I always think like Moses was sent to deliver them, but God's like, no, no, I'm coming down to deliver them. And I was laying in bed the other night just thinking about that. And the phrase [00:07:00] I am able to do, my known work came to mind and I was like, where is that in the scriptures? And I just Googled it, literally Googled it, and it was like, oh a second Nephi 27.

I am able to do my known work. So Wow. That is what the spirit taught me. That is, along with a lot of other things. Heidi, that's so cool. In fact, right here on the page where it says the second book of Moses called Exodus, I put to the next of it, second EFI 27 20. That is such a great, stop it. That is such a great theme for this whole book.

You're awesome. That is excellent, Heidi. Wow. Thank you. Okay, Ben. Well, I can't outdo that. You probably can't, but I, I did have a, a number of moments where the spirit taught me, but the one that I wanna share right now is in chapter three. It says that verse one, it says that Moses went to the mountain of God, even to Horeb.

And I don't know if I'm pronouncing Mount Horab right. But that's how I read it. Mm-hmm. And then later on in these chapters, he goes again and meets up with Aaron there. And I was like, well, I wonder where Mount Horab is. So I [00:08:00] went to the internet and apparently according to the internet, Mount Horab and Mount Sinai are the same place.

Yes. And, and I was like, oh, Moses went to the temple. That's where he saw God. That's where he talked with one of his friends. And what flooded into my mind as I was making this realization was all the times I have gone to the temple and all the times that I have communed with God there and been blessed by his presence and his spirit and, and that, and that's what I was thinking about, that I thought, you know, I go to the temple a lot and.

Often it's just kind of mundane and maybe even a little boring, but so many times as well, it's been absolutely transformative. And I thought about times in the Mesa Temple and the Provo Temple and the Provo City Center temple and the Draper Temple, the Salt Lake temple. Mm-hmm. Where I had moments that just absolutely changed my life.

So that's what came to my mind is I read this, that, that, that going to the mountain of the Lord, going to his house brings us closer to him. Ben, I love that you pointed out too, that he met Aaron there and how many times just the idea of going with someone else, going with a friend or a family member.

I've never connected that before. [00:09:00] That he went to the temple and then he brought someone he loved. And just how cool that is that in, and for me, that enriches my experience. When I get to go with other people, I go alone. But then sometimes when I go with friends. Oh, I love that too. So thanks for bringing that up.

Yeah. Can I tell you one quick temple story please? I, I went to the temple once praying that I would like get a specific answer and often answers don't come super specifically, but I had the specific answer. I walked in and immediately ran to a friend who was a temple worker. She said, Ben, how are you?

And then told me that the answer like right then I was like, God, you can't be that, that clear. Wow. Yeah. But it was great and totally the right answer. That is very great. Yeah. Wow. You had your Moses experience. That is so cool. Yep. Wow. You two. Okay. This is already right outta the gates. This is our first segment and this has been so great and I've already felt the spirit.

How cool. The way both of you learn from the Holy Ghost when you've read Exodus. So this is gonna be a good discussion. Now all of you might be wondering, 'cause this is interesting. When I was reading for the Come Follow Me lesson, I really liked the way that it began in the Come Follow Me [00:10:00] Manual. It says, you might wonder, does God know what I'm going through?

Can hear my please for help? Israel's deliverance from Egypt answers such questions. Clearly, God does not forget his people, but he does not remove, in my words, I'm adding this, but he does not remove the stinging nettle and thankfully he doesn't remove the lambs ear either. So we're gonna discuss that in the next segment.

Segment 2

So lemme ask you this question first out of the gate is, I just wanna know what is your response to people when they say things like that from the Come Follow me mess. Like, God doesn't really know what I'm going through. Can he hear my plea for help? Does he get it? Yeah. You know, immediately, I think to those times when I felt that way.

'cause I truly have felt that way. You know, I'm, I'm 41 years old now, so I'm an old man. Um, but back in my early twenties, I was struggling a lot with my sexual orientation. Mm-hmm. You know, was I was gay, I was closeted, I was praying and fasting to change my orientation and just trying to do everything right.

And I just felt lost and forsaken. And then I came across these verses, [00:11:00] uh, in Isaiah that are echoed in the Book of Mormon that say that, that God says, for a little while, I know I hid my face from me, but with great mercies, will I gather thee? And then he says, though the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, uh, my kindness shall not depart from me.

So when someone says, does God know me? Does, does God aware of me? Does God care about me? My answer is, I felt that too. Like, I've experienced that. And I think that's a very common thing. Like, we'll, we'll, we'll find that later on, uh, in these, in these verses that mm-hmm. That Moses felt that way too. And I would say, you know, feel those feelings and, and also find him there because he's there.

Oh, thank you Ben. Yeah, I, that's a, that's a hard question to sit with. Mm-hmm. And just like Ben, just like all of us, I've felt that too. And I think there's power in just sitting with it. And like what Moses, I mean, Moses wandered through the wilderness between Egypt and before he met anybody, and he had time to just sit with what's going on, what is my life?

And it really [00:12:00] prepared him. And so I know for me, it's those moments in my life that have prepared me for what the Lord has next. Um, it's almost like that. Okay. You know, like in swimming lessons when my teacher was like, okay, now you're gonna swim in the pool without me next to you. Let's see if you can do this.

And so it feels like, oh my gosh, what if I drowned? What if this doesn't happen? And, but this, the instructor is right there and ready, but they're really just making sure, okay, I'm, I've got the next thing I wanna teach you. Do you have this part down? You've got it down. Okay, now I'm gonna show up. Now I'm gonna help you with this next part.

Mm-hmm. And that's also been the pattern in my life. Um, but that's easier said to somebody than to be felt in the moment. And so it's just, it's hard. You know? Heidi, I love your swimming analogy because when you said that, I remembered a memory of when my, I put my kids in swimming lessons and this one swim teacher was brutal.

Like she was tough. She was also a 1970s [00:13:00] US Olympian. In the summer Olympics as a swimmer, and she was a mean swim coach. She expected a lot out of her kids. And my little Sophia was three years old, all right? Like, I want my kids to learn how to swim. And I remember she said to Sophia, you hold on to the side of the wall and don't let go.

And she, and the reason I put all three kids in the same class was because she only charged you one fee, no matter how many kids you had in it. So I only had to pay $50 for three kids to take swimming lessons. I'm not cheap. I'm like, great. Teach 'em all how to swim. I just don't want 'em to die. So she went over to work with my other two daughters who could swim.

And Sophia, who's a little precocious, she let go of the side. 'cause she's like, I, I don't, I'm three. I can do whatever I want. She, lets go. And she starts to drown. And I remember when I was sitting there watching the swim lessons, the friend who introduced me to this teacher, the one rule she had for me was.

You don't get to talk during the lesson no matter what. You just have to let the teacher do her job. And so I'm sitting there with my friend and [00:14:00] Sophia is drowning, and my friend grabs my arm and she goes, you, you can't butt in. You just gotta let it play out. And I was like, play out. This kid's gonna die.

And I'm watching Sophia and she's paddling as fast as she can and she's trying to grab air. But I can also see the teacher looking over at her and is aware of her drowning and lets her struggle and struggle until I almost jumped in the pool to save Sophia. And then the teacher goes over, grabs Sophia, guides her back to the wall and says, I told you to hold onto the wall.

You are not in charge. You follow my rules, or you die. And I guess what, guess who never let go of the site ever again for the rest of the time she was ever in swimming. And she followed the rules of that teacher as a little precocious 3-year-old until she learned how to swim. But I think of your analogy and how like your teacher's there right by your side, and you just have to be willing to follow what the teacher says.

And it might seem like you're alone and it might seem like you're drowning, right? And that you just think, [00:15:00] I I'm not gonna make it. 'cause and then the teacher saves you. And I think that's what God does for us. I loved your, your swimming analogy, and I think it's so cool how you just taught us too, I've never thought of this, that when Moses walked through the wilderness before he got to go to Jethro, there was a time period there.

He probably had to just completely process what had just happened. I wonder if he's like, did I just kill a man? What am I? I just ran away from home. You know, they wanna kill me. There was so much he had to go through that He, I love how you set that up, Heidi. He had time to think about it and wonder what's next.

I wrote that down, what the Lord has next for him and he had no clue. Whoa. That is so good. That is so good. Okay, I have a quote from Elder Holland about this, and then we're gonna get into this idea of stinging nut and lambs here. Ben, will you read this quote from Elder Holland about us feeling alone?

Kinda sums up what we've talked about my brothers and sisters. The first great commandment of all eternity is to love God with all [00:16:00] your heart might mind and strength. That's the first great commandment. But the first great truth of all eternity is that God loves us with all of his heart might mind and strength, that love is the foundation stone of eternity, and it should be the foundation stone of our daily life.

Thank you. I think that's the foundation stone of Exodus one through six. Like God loved Moses, he loved his people, and he even loved Pharaoh. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He just needed to give Pharaoh some time to figure it out. Right? Yeah. And, and this is a truth that is so easy to state and then putting into practice in our lives, like when things get hard, when things are tough to realize, no, God does love me.

God is loving me right now. And sometimes it might feel like I'm drowning. I might actually be drowning. But the, the edge is there. God is there. He's watching me. Ben, how do you know God loves you? You know, I've just felt it so many times and, and answers to prayers and you know, in, in ways that often when [00:17:00] I pray, often when I read the scriptures, but so often through other people, uh, can I actually tell a story about me and Heidi Okay.

About that? So I asked her for permission before to see if it was okay to share this. So Heidi and I met in, I think it was like, like. Like 2019. And when the shutdown started in 2020, we'd been friends for a bit and we'd, we'd hung out a number of times, but I'd never been to her house. And I had to leave my house because I was living with an, with a, with a widow.

And she felt it wasn't safe for me to live at her house during the pandemic. So I went home to Washington, Tennessee with my family for a little bit, and then I had to come back to Utah. 'cause you know, my life was here, my job was here, and so it's time to come back. And Heidi had offered to let me stay at her house.

And often when I pray, I don't get specific answers about what to do. But when I prayed about it, I felt very clearly go to Heidi's house. Mm-hmm. And so I was coming back to Utah and Heidi had another friend staying with her, so I actually couldn't stay with her The first two nights I got to Utah, so I stayed with another friend and she and I were having the best time, like we were, we were having a great time.

[00:18:00] And, and she said, you know, Ben, you can just stay here as long as you want. Like, you don't have to go anywhere else. And I thought about it and I remembered that moment where I felt I need to, like, I need to go to Heidi's house. So I packed up my stuff, drove across town and, and, and stayed at Heidi's house.

And I'd been there maybe just a couple of nights. And Heidi sent me a text message. It was after midnight. And what did you say in the text message, Heidi? I don't remember exactly what it was. It was something along the lines of, I'm having a really rough moment with anxiety. That's something that I deal with in my life.

And if you could just pray for me, like, it's just really bad tonight. So I would just really love a prayer. Yeah. And, and so I texted her back right away and, and like, we're in the same house, but like I'm on the other side of the house. And I was like, of course, I'll pray for you. And then I wanted to like, offer to give her a blessing, but I didn't wanna seem too presumptuous, so I like listed five things I was willing to do.

And in the middle was like, and if you want a blessing, I'll give you a blessing. And, and she said I would love a blessing. So I put on my Sunday clothes right away and met up with her in the [00:19:00] living room and gave her a blessing. And I remember distinctly feeling multiple times during the blessing to tell Heidi that God had sent me there so that she wouldn't have to be alone that night.

And, but once again, like I didn't say that in a blessing 'cause it just felt so presumptuous to be like, God sent me here to be with you. So as soon as the blessing was over, I was like, I'd have to tell her this thing I didn't tell her. So I said, Heidi, you know, multiple times I felt like God sent me to be here so you wouldn't have to be alone tonight.

And you know, it's, it's experiences like that that teach me that God loves us because weeks before he had set up a plan so that I could be there. So Heidi wouldn't have to be alone on that night where she was feeling anxious, stinging Nele and Lamb's ear didn't have a place to live. And you ended up at Heidi's.

Wow. Thank you for sharing that story. Heidi. How do you know God loves you? Because he sends Ben Hilti to my life. Boy, I, I'll tell you what, if Ben Hilti is lambs dear to everybody, isn't he? Stop collecting [00:20:00] cactuses, Ben, and let's start growing that in your yard. Real. No, I mean. That time in my life.

Actually, I have a whole list of angels who I could read the name my list. It's my angel list, but I could name it my lamber list from that whole time. So that's one way I know is, again, like Ben said, the people that God sends into my life. And I, maybe other people feel this way too. I can feel of God's love for other people.

And so then I have to extrapolate and say, well, if he loves everybody else, he must love me too. But it's, it can be really hard for me to feel that God loves me, but I feel it so much for how much he loves everybody else. Wow. That I just have to, that's my faith, belief, hope journey is. Well, if it's true for everybody else, it better.

I guess it's true for me and I'm just gonna have to believe that. So, wow. Wow. And, and right away at the beginning of these scriptures, you know, [00:21:00] in, in Exodus chapter one, like the, the story of, of the midwives who are told by the king that they have to kill all the Hebrew kids that are born, and then they don't do it like that is, like, that is dangerous for 'em to do that.

And they have to come with a silly excuse like, oh, they just give birth so fast. So, yes. Yeah. Right. So they're, they're bored before we get there. And, you know, they're, they're risking their lives, saving other people's lives. And then in, in Exodus one 20, it says, therefore God dwelt God. Therefore God dealt well with the midwives and the people multiplied and waxed very mighty.

And you know what, how you saying is true? When things are rough, like God deals well with us. Mm-hmm. And he takes care of us. Absolutely. Oh my goodness. Thank you so much for both of you, for what you shared, what you just experienced with Ben And Heidi. First I wanna say is true, everything they said was true, and I will back that up.

And secondly, that is how we're gonna do this whole discussion of Exodus one through six is stories where it almost feels like, God, do you know what [00:22:00] I'm going through? Do you hear my plea for help? And then immediately he's like, yeah, let me show you. And then he does help us. And I love that theme. I am able to do my own work.

And let me show you how we're gonna do that. So in the next segment, we are gonna go into Exodus one and two and talk about examples of stinging nettle and lambs air. We'll do that next.

Segment 3

So we are in Exodus chapter one, and here's my example of stinging nettle and lambs ear. So one of the things you wanna know going into the book of Exodus is that Joseph dies.

That's in Genesis chapter 50, verse 26, Joseph and the amazing Technicolor dream coat, Joseph, he has passed away and now his whole family's living in Egypt. So the Pharaoh at the time of Joseph has also passed away. They have a new Pharaoh and he doesn't know Joseph or his family. And so all of a sudden he just has all these people.

And in Exodus chapter one, verse seven. It tells us that the children of Israel were fruitful and increased abundantly and multiplied and waxed, exceedingly mighty in the, and the land was filled with them. And then verse eight, now there are rose, a new [00:23:00] king in Egypt, which knew not Joseph. So we go, it's so good, and now it's not so good.

And verse nine. And he says unto the people, behold the people of the children of Israel are more mightier than we. And so then they decide to do something about it. So they are harsh. They are so mean to the children of Israel. That verse 11 says, they put task masters over them and they afflicted them with burdens.

And that that Pharaoh was just awful to these people. But then this, that's the stinging nettle. And then here's the lambs ear in verse 12. But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew and they grieved because of the children of Israel. So there it is, like even as harsh as the Pharaoh and as people were, they still multiplied, they were still blessed and they grew.

So that's one of the examples that I found. What did you guys find in Exodus chapter? Well, so that is actually the one that stood out to me. But then again, the spirit took me over into the Book of Mormon over to Miah 24, the people of Alma when the [00:24:00] Ammonites come in. And it's almost like word for like, it was so crazy to see all of the similar wording.

And it's talking about covenants and the task masters and the burdens and the afflictions. And so, um, this, the lambs ear that I think is a little more obvious in Miah but is definitely there from Exodus, was in Miah 24, 4 14, where God says, and I will ease the burdens which are put upon your shoulders, that even you cannot feel them upon your backs, even while you are in bondage.

And this will I do that you may stand as witnesses for me hereafter. And so like that, I loved that the spirit took me there and made that connection and it just showed me. Yeah, there was nettle here in Israel. There was nettle in the nephi colonies, and the lambs ear is the same. Like I, I'm not a respecter of persons.

My lambs ear is gonna help that nettle no [00:25:00] matter what. That's a cool application of, it doesn't matter what you are or who you are, the nettle works very cool works. The atone of Jesus Christ works, works for everyone. Blas ear works. Oh, that is great. Yeah. And, and mine was something I already shared. I, I jumped a little bit ahead, but the, the wind, the midwives who were asked to, you know, kill the Hebrew babies and then they didn't follow that.

And the thought I had as I read that was the hymn, do what is right. Let the consequence follow. Oh, yeah. And, and the consequence of doing the right thing, you know, saving these babies was that God, uh, dealt well with them and they, they were okay. And sometimes when we do what is right and the consequences isn't always so happy, but they were okay.

And I love too, Ben, that it wasn't just that God dealt well with them, but in verse 21, he says, um, because the midwives feared God that he made them houses like he did the opposite of what Pharaoh, like Pharaoh wanted them to kill the babies and like decrease the numbers. And God gave them [00:26:00] houses, which is really like lineage like family.

It's not just, he built them nice houses to like live in. So that, you know, they were the fancy midwives. It was like, no, he blessed their houses Yes. And their lineage. And so it was the exact opposite of the nettle. It was, and some scholars believed these two women were single at the time, that they would've had to have been older women to have been midwives.

And so maybe even past the age of giving birth. And so I like a lot of scholarship then points to that verse saying it's miraculous that he made them houses or gave them posterity so that they were able, and I you're, that's such a cool insight, Heidi, that idea that the very thing that Pharaoh wanted to get rid of.

He gave, and some people think they were Egyptian women. Others think they were Hebrew women. I kinda like to think they were Hebrew women who then had more kids. That's pretty cool. But they also had audience with the king. Yes. Right. How many women have audience with the king? I mean, that is okay. That is a great example too, of stinging [00:27:00] nettle and lambs here, because Ben, you talked about that earlier, where the Lord provided before they even knew they needed to be provided for with Heidi as example.

I mean, God knew that Pharaoh was gonna pull this and say, all right, let's just kill. And meanwhile, he somehow had these women have a relationship with the king. We're not only, and I love how you said that, because even to the point where the king just trusted their word, when they made that up, that lie like, oh wow, these women, they're just so fast to give birth when we get there.

The baby's already arrived. And he was like, oh, okay. Yeah. Didn't even question it at all. I thought that was my, apples one of my favorite parts of that whole story. Like, wow, I don't know anything about childbirth. Alright, I'll take your word for it. They were so smart. Wow. Excellent. Excellent. So that is so much fun to talk about the stinging nettle in Lambs ear.

And that was just Exodus chapter one. So in the next segment we're gonna dive into Exodus chapter two and three. There's more stinging, nettle and lambs here, and I can't wait to find out what Ben and Heidi came up with.

Segment 4

Here's my stinging nettle in lambs ear for Exodus chapter two. [00:28:00] And this one I had never considered until I read it again, like I've studied this so many times.

But I love this in the light of studying stinging nettle lambs ear. So if we go to Exodus chapter two, verse one just says, there went a man of the house of Levi and took a wife, the daughter of Levi, and the woman conceived embarrassed son. And when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months.

Okay? So we have Moses' mom and dad right here, and that he was a goodly child. I love in Hebrew, it means beautiful. He was a beautiful child. How sweet is that? Mm-hmm. And so when this happened, she hides him for three months, and then in verse three, and when she could not longer hide him, she took for him an arc of bull rushes and dobbed it with slime and with pitch highlight slime and pitch right there in that verse.

And then put the child there in for, she laid it in the flags by the river's brink. Okay, so we all know the story about how baby Moses in a basket then goes down the Nile and gets picked up by Pharaoh's daughter, and that's how he saved. But the thing that really stood out to me [00:29:00] is here's this stinging nettle moment where she has to get rid of her child.

Because the plan was in Exodus one, verse 22, Pharaoh charged all his people saying, every son that is born, you shall cast into the river and every daughter you shall save alive. So technically she's not breaking the rule. She is putting her son in the river, but she's doing it very sneakily. So here's this stinging nut moment.

But the thing I love, and the reason I had us highlight slime and pitch is because put this cross reference next to those words. It's Exodus chapter one, verse 14. If you just turn the page back and you look at verse 14, it says. One of the things that made the lives of the Israelites so harsh is said, they made their lives bitter with hard bondage in mortar.

Highlight mortar. Mortar is the same word as slime. She became so good at working with slime and pitch. She knew how to use it to create a basket to save her son's life. So in this moment of what was stinging nettle and really [00:30:00] hard work that she thought, this life is awful. And it's with rigor, as we've read in these verses.

It ended up being the bomb to save her child, that skillset, to use the slime to put together this beautiful basket. And so I thought sometimes in our life, the situations we're in that are really, really hard. I think the Lord's like that's gonna serve you well down the road. So just lean into this and it's going to give you the skills that you need to help you out in 20 years or in five months, whatever it is.

But never overlook the difficulty in your life. 'cause it might end up being a blessing. So that was my stinging needle in lambs there. Well, Heidi, tell me what stinging na and lamber you found in Exodus chapter two. So this is one that actually I didn't expect to find, but it's when after Moses has fled out of Egypt and he's fled to the land of Midian and he's sitting down by a well, and the daughters of Jethro come to water, the flocks, and these other shepherds come and scatter their flocks.

And so it's the [00:31:00] daughters of Jethro who are in the middle of this stinging nettle, like, we can't water the flocks and the shepherds are here, and what are we gonna do? And all these crazy things. And Moses, who's in the middle of his own stinging nettle, shows up on the scene and his lambs ear for the daughters of Jethro.

And he jumps in and he says, Moses stood up and helped them. This is verse 17. Moses stood up and helped them and watered their flock and did all these things. And the daughters go home and their dad's like, well, how did you get home so fast? Like you had to go water the flocks and all the things. And I'm like, this, an Egyptian delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds and also drew water enough for us and watered the flocks.

And he said unto his daughters, where is he? I wanna see this. Where's this Zer? Who's this person that saved you? And I just, I loved that because I just imagine, Moses, I already mentioned earlier, he's been walking across the Deseret. He's in the midst of his own huge stinging nettle moment and he still [00:32:00] pauses and takes the time to be ser for somebody else.

And how, yeah. Grateful these daughters of Jethro must have been to have somebody come to their aid when things could have gone really downhill. Oh yeah, absolutely. Wow. Those are great verses and I love reading those and talking about it, especially when you go into these verses. Um, when you go to verse 21, I love how, and Moses was content to dwell with the man.

Like to think about how he had just come from living with Pharaoh in very, very fabulous dwellings, I'm assuming, and now he's in the wilderness in a tent. And that I, that word content right there. Sometimes I think that that is so powerful in our lives when the feeling to be content with the situation, that's hard.

I think that's a gift that is a lambs ear for Mely. Absolutely. 'cause there have been times in my life, like my wilderness is, wilderness is not easy. That's hard. And to be content with where you are, that's powerful. [00:33:00] Building off of both the stories you shared. I found a theme of stingy nettles and lambs ear throughout this chapter with regards to family.

Okay. And I think so many of us have family situations that aren't ideal or like things don't work out the way we expect. And you know, like you both already shared, you know, Moses, like his mom lost him and then got him back. But then Moses also lost the family he grew up in when, when the Egyptian is murdered and he has to flee.

Mm-hmm. And then what happens, he ends up meeting his father-in-law and his new wife. And even though he lost his family, he was, he was then given, you know, his, his own family. And then, you know, later on Exodus, you know, he reconnects with, with his sister and reconnects with his family. But I think that happens a lot in our lives, that sometimes family situations seem imperfect or difficult, but that doesn't mean that there can't be a repair.

And, and that when we have to move on and start our own families, you know, we, we can find joy there too. [00:34:00] And cool. The, the verses I I thought of, you know, connected to this, you know, the Israelites had, were having a really tough time like, like they were in bondage. So at the end of chapter two, in verses 24 and 25, it says, and God heard their groaning.

And I love the idea of like complaining, being groaning. And God heard their groaning and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob. And God looked upon the children of Israel and God had respect for them. And it says in the footnote that, that that means that God knew about them, like was aware of them.

And I just love this, you know, and, and all those difficulties, you know, you know Moses' mom losing him, you know, him leaving, like having to like flee from Egypt and, and, and leave behind his family. God was aware of all of that and he heard their groanings and, and sometimes, you know, we, like, we want the bondage to end right away.

You know, we, we want, we want the miracle right now. And that that doesn't always happen. In fact, I think it rarely happens, but the whole time God is there. Like the whole [00:35:00] time, you know, when we're, when we're drowning in the pool, God is watching us and will come over and get us, you know, before we drown.

Oh, absolutely. I love action words. I'm so glad you picked those two verses As you read them, the words that stood out to me are heard. Remembered looked and respect, like, I think that is so cool. I almost wanna put those on my mirror in my bathroom. He'll hear me, he remembers me, and then he looks upon me.

And then that idea that he had respect or that he took, he takes notice of me. I'm so thankful you pointed that out. I think we need to be reminded of that, especially in tricky family situations. For sure. And I love how you said the answer doesn't always come. 'cause I think sometimes with scripture we're conditioned that the answer comes in the next verse.

And I've always said this, I wish there was an asterisk next to some of these verses that say three and a half years later, or 52 years later, you know, their prayer was answered. I, I, I love that you said that it sometimes takes a while for it, and that's okay. And you know, I, I had a really tricky family situation [00:36:00] for a number of years.

My, my mom had Alzheimer's. It was, you know, towards the end of her life was very advanced. You know, she didn't know who we were, you know, she needed round the clock care and it was exhausting. And sometimes I would pray and be like, God, like, why do we have to suffer like this? Like, why does my mom have to suffer?

And, you know, in the end, like she has since passed away. And, you know, she has her memories back now and you know, that hard time has passed and the resolution isn't there yet. Like, you know, she's not resurrected. We're not reunited as a family. But when I pray about that, when I groan about that, God hears.

Mm-hmm. And just last night after I was studying these verses, there's something I've been praying about that I've kind of been complaining and, and I was like, I can groan about this. God hears me and he's aware of me. Yeah. Oh, I think that's so good. I'm looking at something, 'cause I think what's so interesting is that word groaned, specifically in Hebrew because in verse 23 where it says, and the children of Israel side by reason of the bondage in Hebrew, that word is actually groaned.[00:37:00]

And I love to think of it too, as like a sigh. Maybe you're not groaning, Ben. Maybe you're just like, ah, tea me. You know? Just like, oh boy. Sometimes a groan is a sigh. It's all the same. I like that so much. You're just sighing. That's all. You were mentioning like an asterisk, and in chapter two verse 23 it says, and it came to pass in process of time.

Oh, so just saying there was time, but then if you go to the footnotes and you go over to Acts chapter seven, verses 20 through 36, it recaps this whole story and it actually does give the timeline. How much time is it? That's so cool. Let's turn there. Put the cross reference that she said everybody. 'cause she's right.

It's Acts chapter seven, verse 23. And go there, Heidi, and tell us how much time passed. Yeah, so it is when 40 full years, or sorry. And when he was full 40 years old, it came into his heart to visit his brother and the children of Israel. So when he slew the Egyptian, he was 40. [00:38:00] And then when you go to verse 30, and when 40 years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of Mount Sinai, an angel.

So we've got 80 years documented of. Moses hanging out, waiting and the children of Israel 80 years hanging out, waiting. Wow, that's a long time. Such a long time. Now, it adds even more depth to what Ben shared. Yeah, they're groaning. Forget it. That's not even a sigh. Right? The first 40 years was the sigh, and it's like literally 40 more, and then we're gonna get out of Egypt, and then it's 40 more like, no wonder they're murmuring by the time they get there.

The sighing, they're groan, and then they're murmuring. Like the progression is there. Well, and it's so fun because one of my favorite things that I've been learning is the numbers in scripture, and the number 40 is a symbol of test or trial, how long it takes to learn a lesson. And my, I like, I'm thinking, and I love, I joke at this all the time, that I [00:39:00] just think how many of us are in our forties and have been there for a real long time?

Like I'm, I'm older than 40, but boy, been living in my forties, right? And so I, I just think that is just what God does. We're all in these periods of 40 where we're just, ugh, sighing and groaning and all the things. But I, I love what you taught us, Ben, that God hears, he remembers, he looks and he respects, or he knows us.

So that's the best. Best balm right there. The best lambs here. So thank you to both of you, what you shared and the examples that you found in this chapter. So in the next segment, we're gonna do Exodus three and four, and we're gonna find out what my guests have to say. Here we go.

Segment 5

We are in Exodus chapter three.

Now, Exodus chapter three, this is where Moses has the awesome experience and he has it up in Mount Hori. And Ben, you did such a good job of setting this up. He goes up to the temple. I, why did you say it was the temple? That is so cool. You knew that. Because that's where we find God, you know, that's where we're on holy ground.

And you [00:40:00] know, God tells Moses like, take off your shoes. You're on holy ground. Mm-hmm. And you know, the, the temple is the mountain of the Lord. Yeah, you're totally right. And that was his temple experience was up there. And boy, did he ever have an experience where he then gets to talk with the Lord. What stinging nettle and wet lambs here did you find in Exodus chapters three and four?

You know, I think this is a stinging nettle that is still lingering from before, that he, his people are in bondage. Mm-hmm. And, and he has left, left them behind. And I think that, I think that is still lingering with him. And so, you know, chapters three and four, you know, are a temple experience. It's where, it's where Moses encounters the Lord.

He, he encounters God. And I really like how it says in Exodus chapter three, verse eight, where the Lord says, and I'm come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up outta the land, onto a good land and a large onto a land flowing with milk and honey. And he says, this thing that's bothering you, I'm gonna fix it.

Like, I'm gonna make [00:41:00] it better. And when I read this earlier this week, I thought about a time when I was 23 years old. And I, I was, I was really struggling. Like I was wondering what my life was supposed to look like, how I was gonna be able to have a happy life. And I was just, I was like in the depths of depression.

And I got in my car. I was living in Provo, Utah at the time. I drove, you know, 25 minutes north of the Mount Deno Temple because I was like, I wanna show God, like how much I need him right now. So I, like, instead of driving two minutes to the Prolo Temple, I drove an extra 20 minutes and I, I went through and down one session.

I remember sitting in the suster room and just feeling so empty. And I was like, I, I came here trying to find God and I, I didn't like, like, like, where are you? And I remember just like standing in the SL room and like looking at myself in one of the big mirrors, just like seeing that I just like, looked so sad and so hollow and just like, just so depressed.

And I just stayed there for a while and I just didn't feel any better. Then after I changed my clothes, I did something I'd never, I've never done before. And I put my own name on the [00:42:00] prayer role. I was like, I was like, I need help. And I, I, and I struggled about that. I was like, like, why didn't I feel God when I was looking for him in the temple?

And you know what? I went back and I felt God the next time. And, and sometimes, you know, I want to find God, I want to feel him. Like I want to be freed from bondage. And, and that doesn't happen. And just last week, um, I don't usually go to the Mount Menno symbol 'cause truly I'm so far being 25 minutes away.

Um, but, but I, but I went there last week with a friend and I sat in the celestial room and I thought about that experience almost 20 years ago of feeling hollow and empty and feeling so depressed. And I said a little prayer gr and I said, God, I'm so glad I'm not in that place anymore. Wow. I'm so glad that, that I've been delivered from, from the shame, from the self-hatred, from that feeling of being trapped.

Like I don't feel that anymore. And you know, that wasn't an easy process, but God was with me along the way and he, he delivered me from the things that, that were keeping me captive 20 years later. That's your little asterisk right there [00:43:00] for, for 21-year-old you. Yep. Oh, Ben, that's a great story. I love that.

I love the truthfulness of it. Go. Go to verse seven though, because this is so fun. Leading into verse eight. Will you read verse seven? And as Ben reads these, mark the action words in this verse. And the Lord said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people, which are in Egypt and have heard their cry by reason of their task masters, where I know their sorrows.

I, I just look at that and you can apply your own life. I've seen the affliction of Tammy in Draper, Utah, and I've heard her cry and by reason of her task masters IE her kids, and I know her sorrows. Whatever your task master is, you know, but like, I think the beauty of that, you can apply any verse in there, and I'm thinking of you, Heidi, like Heidi, I've seen your affliction and I have heard your cry by reason of your anxiety that you shared with us in the beginning, and I know your sorrows.

Can I ask a personal question? Like, how have you found God in this struggle with anxiety that you've [00:44:00] had? Oh, well, he has given me the strength to get through things that I didn't think I could get through. Like my, my biology makes everything feel life threatening. When it's not that, that's what anxiety is, it's that fight or flight.

And Ben and I have joked about this. He's, he feels anxiety once in a while. He is like, you feel this all the time? I'm like, uh. He's like, ha, how do you manage that? Wow. And, and I, I, it's literally, okay, heavenly father, I can't do this on my own. Like I, I, like I the rest of chapter three in Exodus and chapter four, where Moses is having this imposter syndrome moment.

Mm-hmm. That's like every day of my life. I, you mentioned I've done school, I've got a PhD. I, I got some skills. Two. Two PhDs. Two [00:45:00] PhDs. I got some skills, but I feel this inadequacy and this anxiety all the time and I just, it's, I just have to trust and have faith and. As I've gotten older and had more experiences with this, I can feel God leading me more often than I could in the past, and I can feel that piece.

And, and in the moments when it is too big for me to, to do on my own, that's when he sends people. Like he sent Ben that night, that same weekend I had been at my brother's house and my cute nieces, you know, they're like up at all hours and they just wanna time with Aunt Heidi. And sometimes it's like, okay, gimme some space.

Like, but one of them had climbed into bed with me in the middle of the night and didn't know that I was in the middle of an anxiety attack in the middle of the night. And she just crawled into bed with me and I literally wrote in my journal, she was an angel in my life. [00:46:00] She helped me calm down and I got back to sleep.

And that, that's how God does it. Whether it's a feeling or a person or a. Just, and it's, it's gotten better. And, but I'm a psychologist and I deal with anxiety like mm-hmm. Physician heal thyself. It's, you know, wow. Yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't, I'm not spared from that, but I take a lot of comfort from even the scriptures.

Jacob in the Book of Mormon talks about his anxiety and his worry for the people and how he can have faith and anxiety at the same time. It's not an either or thing. And so I have, I have taken comfort in that as well, of it's a both and like it's there and I can still move forward and God's got my back and things are gonna work out.

And keeping a record, like the scriptures are a record for us when I remember to journal. 'cause I'm not the best at it right now, but [00:47:00] I can go back and that's where I can also see the hand of the Lord in my life and helping me manage that. Can I say how Heidi's anxiety kind of blesses my life? So, so, so, so Heidi and I, uh, are, we're, we're very good friends.

She's one of my best friends, and we have the exact opposite personality profile. Like, if you take the Myers-Briggs exam, like our letters are the opposite and everything. And so like, I'm this extrovert, you know, I'm outgoing. Like, I don't get very bothered and I worry from time to time. And so that doesn't make me, so, I don't like ruminate about things like, like I don't, because I'm not worrying about them.

I don't think about things for very long. And so when I need help to figure something out, I call Heidi and she talks me through things. Wow. And her ability to talk me through things has blessed me so many times. And, and I, like, I, I wrote a book a couple years ago and Heidi's mentioned it in the acknowledgements because I talked through so many things with her and she helped me figure them out.

And so, like, [00:48:00] our difference in personality really is such a blessing to me. And there's, there's a meme that goes around every once in a while online that says, like, like, how does an introvert make friends? And then it says, an extrovert adopts them. And Heidi will be like, thanks for adopting me. That's adorable.

But you know, the, the way Heidi's brain and body works is different than how my brain and body works. Mm-hmm. And, and because of that, she's able to help me see things that I would miss. I, you know, here's, this is the coolest thing ever, that both of you were talking about this, because one of the things that I love about God is, and Heidi, you said that's how God does it.

And when you were talking about how God answers prayer, that's how God does it. And that really hit me when you're like. That's how God does it, because he does it. He does. He really does do it for all of us. And he knows what we're gonna need. He puts a ben and a Heidi together. He puts a Moses and an errand together.

I mean the foresight to think that God knew Moses is gonna need an errand. So let me send both of these kids to this family so that, and I love how you said [00:49:00] imposter syndrome. 'cause Moses is like I in verse, and this is in Exodus chapter four, verse 10, but I am slow speech and a slow tongue. And guess what?

Guess how God's gonna do it, man, don't worry about it. You got your brother Aaron, and he's gonna help you out. And that's in the verses 14 and 15. I'm gonna put the words in his mouth. And I like, why couldn't God put the words in Moses' mouth? Isn't that interesting? But I love how God uses other people.

Almost universally to help answer our prayers to be the lambs year in our life. And so I, I just love how both of you exemplified this story of Moses and Aaron so perfectly. There's a Moses and Aaron. There's a Heidi and a Ben, and you can just see throughout storylines in scripture look for people who are examples of Lambs year who can just soften that.

So I That's cool how both of you just shared that. I love it. I love that you two know each other. We love it too. Me too. It's pretty great. Wow. That was a great discussion of Exodus chapter three and chapter four. And so the Lord just says to Moses, go forward like you [00:50:00] can do this and I'm gonna help you do it.

So don't worry about it. One of the things you wanna mark is in Exodus chapter four, verse 21. It says in there, the Lord says, but I will harden his heart. You wanna look at the footnote. You're gonna see iterations of that throughout the Book of Exodus. 'cause the Lord never hardens Pharaoh's heart, ever.

And I love the footnote down below and I will prosper thee. But Pharaoh will harden his heart and he will not let the people go. Can you imagine? If the Lord tells you, here's what I need you to go do, and by the way, it's not gonna work. I would be deflated. I mean, why are you sending me again? And I, and that's what the Lord does constantly to Moses, you're gonna try this, it's not gonna work, but I'm, but you know what, like you said, Heidi, but this is how God does it.

And so he's absolutely gonna help Moses to be able to make these miracles happen and help the Israelites be freed. So that is such a good story. Yeah. And building off that, Tammy, also in Exodus chapter four, you know, Moses, Moses complained that he, he is slow of speech in, in verse 10. And then he says, I, I'm slow of speech and of a slow tongue.

And then in verse 11 he says, and it [00:51:00] says, and the Lord said unto him, who hath made man's mouth or who make it the dumb or deaf or seen, or the blind have not I the Lord. He's like, you know, I did this right. And he says. Now, therefore, I will be with thy mouth and teach the, what thou shalt say is like, you're afraid you're not gonna be good enough.

Hey, I am with you in this weakness. And one of the like biggest aha moments I had in my thirties was how much I prayed and fasted like, like so many thousands of times to not be gay. Just like have my orientation change and not be gay. And then I realized, like, like through my blog and my podcast and like talks and firesides and personal conversations that my being gay has become the main vehicle through which I bear my testimony of the savior.

Wow. And, and so cool. This thing like felt like such a weakness to me ended up becoming a strength to build the kingdom of God. And, and God can do that, be because he put, he knows all of our circumstances and he can use them for his good and he, he will qualify [00:52:00] us as he calls us. Wow. Ben. You're 100% right.

And you have been able to do that. And I'm even thinking of Heidi. 'cause Heidi, you said, I'm a psychiatrist and I have anxiety. Boy, I wouldn't wanna go. And if I had anxiety, you're the one I wanna talk to. You're the one I wanna know who gets it. Like that is so cool how God does that, huh? That's really great.

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. You know I have a quote by President George Q Canon, and I think this is kind of cool and we'll end this segment with this quote. Heidi, can you read this for us? President George Q Canon once taught, no matter how serious the trial, how deep the distress, how great the affliction.

God will never Deseret us. He never has and he never will. He cannot do it. It is not his character to do so. He will always stand by us. We may pass through fiery furnace, we may pass through deep waters, but we shall not be consumed nor [00:53:00] overwhelmed. We shall emerge from all these trials and difficulties, the better and pure for them.

Thank you. So in the next segment we're gonna dive into a chapter of Exodus that proves that quote. Absolutely true. We'll do that next.

Segment 6

Let's turn to Exodus chapter six because you guys, there is so much lambs ear in this chapter. Like no matter how much stinging nettle you encounter, there is always lamb's ear to hear, Ugh, there's always lambs ear to heal.

So here's what we've got going on. We have Exodus five, and the Lord is basically saying to Moses, look, it's gonna be hard. You're gonna have a really difficult time trying to talk Pharaoh into this. I'm still sending you in. And the children of Israel, boy, they're miserable. In fact, they're so miserable now because, because Moses has asked for this help, Pharaoh decides, you know what?

Not only am I not gonna let your children of people go so they can serve the Lord, I'm gonna make their lives even worse. So now, instead of just making brick with straw that they had, they don't even get straw anymore. They have to go out and find their own straw [00:54:00] to make the brick and keep up with the daily.

Brick making that they were doing before. And it is brutal. They're having the worst time and Moses doesn't understand what's going on and the children of Israel don't understand what's going on. Like why are you making life more difficult? And then we get this like it's just stinging nettle everywhere.

You can just see the children of Israel and Moses falling down the side of the mountain. It's is Stewart Falls, right? And then all of a sudden they stop and look around and they see the lambs ear and lambs ear is Exodus chapter six. So let's just go through these verses and every time you see the phrase I will, I want you to highlight that in one through six.

And Ben and Heidi tell me what you found. What are these I will statements that are the lamb's ear for these people. Yeah. Can I actually take a step back real fast please. So my favorite thing I read whether I was preparing for this were the last two verses of Exodus chapter five. Okay. Uh, and so the lo, so Moses goes and does what the Lord told him to do.

Like, God was so [00:55:00] clear, like he gave him leprosy, then cured it. He turned his staff into a snake. He's like, I got this. Like, don't you fret Moses? I got this. And Moses says, let my people go. And then it gets worse. And, and it should have worked, right? Like it was so clear. Oh yeah. And so I just so relate to Moses in verses 22 and 23 where it says, and Moses returned unto the Lord and said, Lord, wherefore has thou so evil and treated this people.

Why is it that thou has sent me Here he is like, what are you doing? Why did you even ask me to do this? And then he says, for sense, I came to Pharaoh to speak in thy name. He had done evil to this people. Neither has thou delivered, thy people at all. He's like, you did not do what you said you were gonna do.

And I remember learning in seminary that Moses is a type of Christ, like a, a person who shows us, you know mm-hmm. What the savior is like. And, and the savior's perfect. And so, you know, we see him and we emulate him. And I love this person who in so many ways, typifies Jesus, but is [00:56:00] also imperfect and complains.

Yeah. And, and wonders. And it reminded me of when Joseph Smith was in Liberty Jail and he said, oh God, where're Arthur Thou, and where's the pavilion that covered that hiding place? And I thought about like times in my life and I wondered, does President Oaks get that way too? Like, is he sometimes like, God, you told me to do this thing.

Why isn't it working yet? You know? Mm-hmm. And, and I, and I just really related to this feeling of why haven't I been delivered yet? You told me to do this. You asked me to do this. Why hasn't this happened yet? And I just love it. Like, and that's how the chapter ended, because sometimes it feels like that's how the day ends or that's how the weekends, like wondering why hasn't it gotten fixed yet?

Ben, I'm so glad we went back. Thank you for summing up those two verses perfectly. And and you're right. It ends right there. And then all of a sudden you get into chapter six and then the Lord says to Moses, don't you love that? Like he gets done complaining. And so the Lord's like, all right Moses, let's talk.

Mm-hmm. And then he talks to him and he says, now thou shalt see what I will do to Pharaoh for with strong hand. He shall let them go with a strong hand, shall [00:57:00] he drive them out of the land? And God spoke unto Moses and said unto him, I am the Lord. Let's get that clear. First and foremost. And I love the I Am statement right there in Hebrew.

I am. And in fact, the chapter before when the Lord says in chapter three, when the Lord says my name as I am, what we love about that in Hebrew is in Hebrew, it means I will cause to be. Like, I'm gonna make this work. I'm gonna cause it to be the way I need it to turn out. So he says, I am the Lord. Then three, I appeared unto Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Now here's something kind of cool when you guys read in the Book of Mormon and it says, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. And it does it a lot. I was always like, why does it always say that? Why do like, okay, why can't you just say you're God? And the reason why is because, and it also does it throughout the whole Old Testament and New Testament.

It's because everybody believed this story. This is the foundation. This is the testimony of all the people they believed in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Nobody discounted that [00:58:00] story. And so right here he is saying, he's setting this up. I'm the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah, was I not known unto them?

So in verses six, seven, and eight, then the Lord says his I will statements. Here's what I will do. For instance, in verse six, the first one it says, and I will bring you out from under the burden of the Egyptians. Ben and Heidi help me find the other I am statements. Yeah, the next one is, and I will rid you out of their bondage.

Then I will redeem you with a stretched out arm and highlight redeem right there. 'cause in Hebrew it means deliver. I will deliver you. Verse seven, I will take you to me for a people and I will be to you A God. I love the one you read, Tammy. That's my favorite one. Tell me why. I just love that like God claims us and calls us his.

And I just love this idea that like God blames us. I, I've had moments in my [00:59:00] life where I've had like great friendships and people who are like family to me and to like watch them, like claim me and call me their own. Mm-hmm. Just feels so good. And I just love the idea, like God is saying, you're mine.

That's cool. Right. Well, like we say that a lot in our vocabulary now. Like, oh, those are my people. Yeah. And we mean like, oh, I care about them. And they're, and and you hear that. I mean, Moses is speaking for Christ when he says, let my people go. It's not like, Pharaoh, let, let the Hebrews go, my peeps. It's like, no, no.

God has said, these are my people. That's covenant language. My people, my friends. Let my people go. And so That's awesome, Heidi. Yeah. Very cool. Tell us the next one in verse eight. Verse eight is, and I will bring you in unto the land. And then the last one, I will give it to you for a heritage. And then he says, I am the Lord.

What do these I am statements tell you about [01:00:00] God and Jesus Christ. When we may feel unloved or abandoned, then how do we sum all this up? This is why I see as we, as we look deeply this chapter, God says, I did these things. He says, I have done these things. He says, I am doing these things. And then he says, I will do these things.

And what this reminds me, yes. What this reminds me of is we're in the middle of the story. Yes. And, and right now we might be about to fall in the stingy nettles. Maybe we fallen and we're searching. Maybe we just found the lambs ear. Maybe we found some lambs ear. Then we fell into some more stingy nettles.

Yeah. But, but you know, but, but whatever. Wherever we are on the hike, we're still on the hike. And God will take us home from the hike. And he does claim this as his. For his people. I like that so much. Yeah. When he sees us rolling down the mountain, he is like, that's mine. Yeah, no worries. She's with me.

That's mine. [01:01:00] When she let go the side of the pool, uh, she's mine. I love that you said that, Ben. 'cause I wrote that down like three different times in my notes when I was preparing was the I have, I am. I will. Mm-hmm. And that took me eventually to third Nephi chapter 10, when the Savior's coming to the Nephi's and he's talking about being, um, how often have I gathered you?

Yes. As a hen gather through chicken. So that's chapter 10, verse four in third nephi. And then in five, how often would I gather, have gathered you as a hen. And I think that would be our present moment. And then in verse six, Oggie House of Israel, whom I have spared. How often will I gather you as a hen, gathers her chickens under her wings.

Hmm. And I just, it just, again, that's how God does it. He's always, always there the same lambs ear, whether it was the Israelites coming out of Egypt when it's [01:02:00] him coming himself to the knee fights and saying, and it's all covenant language. That's what struck me too, is this, I will, is all covenant, all covenant, all day.

You're my people. Right? And it's in verse seven, in chapter 10 of 13 five, it says, until the time of the fulfilling of the covenant to your fathers, the covenant that I made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, like, there it is. And we're all the way back to, even Joseph said that at the very end of Genesis, going all the way back is like, God's gonna do this thing that he swear he would do.

And it's, it's there. Yeah. The whole way through. Wow. And going back to how we started with the Come Follow Me lesson, when you feel like, is he really listening? Does he hear me? Is he aware of me? And both of you have perfectly taught today. Yes, yes, yes. The answer is yes to all of those things. And we are, we're just, we're just in the wilderness.

We're in the middle of that hike. And, and I love that too, the [01:03:00] idea that like, even when you do find the balms, sometimes it still stings a little. And that's okay. Just wait it out. It'll go away. It'll be fine. It might take 80 years as Heidi has pointed out, but it's gonna be okay. Right? It's just yucky sometimes.

So, wow. Can I tell one, can I tell one more story, Tammy? I would love that. So when I was a teen, my dream was to be a, a release time seminary teacher. Just like you got to be, Hey. Like, that was my dream. That was all I wanted to do. And so when I got to BYUI enrolled in the seminary teaching program and I started going through the classes.

And then I realized I was probably never gonna get married. And at the time, you, if you were a man, you had to be married to be a seminary teacher. Mm-hmm. And so I gave up on my dream. I was like, I don't get to do this thing. And then a couple years later I moved to Tucson, Arizona, where I started my PhD program.

And I just didn't like it. It just wasn't fitting right. And I thought. I don't wanna do a PhD program, I wanna be a seminary teacher. So I, again, enrolled in the seminary teaching program, but at the Mesa Institute. And I drove two hours [01:04:00] every week up to Mesa to take this institute class. And then when that was done, I was selected to teach release time seminary in Tucson for a semester.

And, and on the day, like after my first day of teaching seminary, I was getting to know the kids. I had a great time. And on my drive home, I was just like, stay in a prayer of gratitude. And then it hit me like, I get to do my dream for four months. And that is so special. And as, and as I realized that, I just said, God, thank you for letting me live this dream for a couple of months, I just felt this, this wave of the spirit.

Just say, you're welcome. Wow. And you know, sometimes not, sometimes, almost always. Life doesn't work out the way we expected. Right. But God is aware of us and when we take time to to step back and think about it, I think he's more aware of us than we often notice. And that's why we're commanded to pray always.

Because as we do that, as we focus on him and his blessings, we'll we'll see him. Wow. Amen. Ben. I think absolutely. We don't recognize how aware of [01:05:00] us that he actually is. And I tie that in. This is back in Exodus three, but when, in verse two, so Exodus chapter three, verse two, and the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in the flame of the fire, out of the midst of a bush.

And actually in the footnote, it's the presence of the Lord. So it's not an a, an angel, it's the presence. Mm-hmm. It's the spirit. And I think this ties into what you were saying, Ben, is that God was there, his spirit was there, his presence was there. And it says in verse three, and Moses said, I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

So God was there, but he was waiting for Moses to turn and look and engage. Yeah. And once he engaged, once he said, and when the Lord saw that he had turned aside to see. So once God saw that Moses was ready to engage, that he had listened to the Spirit, then God called unto him out of the midst of the bush and said, Moses, Moses, [01:06:00] he called him by name.

Yes, he did. And I think that highlights that story that you just had, that was, you were ready and you turned into the presence of the Lord. And he said, try this thing. And you showed up and he was like, Ben, I know you. And he called you out of the bush and gave you that opportunity to be more than you thought you could be.

Wow. That is so cool. Such great connections. Thank you Heidi, for pointing that out with Exodus three. I love that, that he leaned into it, he acknowledged and then the Lord saw him that like called him by name. So cool. And we're so familiar with that, right? That's Joseph Smith. Yeah. It's leans into, it follows the promptings and the first words out of the father's mouth are Joseph.

Yeah. And how many, now it's making me think of how many opportunities I may be missing because I don't lean, because I don't turn and just look. Thank you to both of you for sharing that. Thank you. This was a great [01:07:00] episode. Wow. Okay, so just gather your thoughts and what's, what's the spiritual truth that you learned?

Something that stood out to you from our discussion today. This, this is the message I feel like I've been getting from the spirit. I, I'm a very extroverted person. Like I would rather be with someone all the time. Like, I don't take a lot of alone time. And even when I do, I listen to a podcast or I call someone, I also have a busy life.

Like I'm out and about doing things a lot. And the phrase that has been coming to my mind is be still and know that I am God. And the way it feels applied to me right now is like, be still and you will know that I am God. Mm-hmm. And, and I've, as I've taken time on purpose to be still and to ponder and reflect, I felt God's love for me.

And that's something I want to make sure I focus on and, and do a, a little bit intentionally every day because I, I really feel that, you know, as, as Heidi just said, you know, as I turn to God, that's when I'll, that's when I'll see him, that's when I'll get the revelation. Mm-hmm. And so I wanna make sure that with all the busyness, with [01:08:00] all the friendships, with all the family in my life, that I'll take time to be still.

That's a great takeaway. Wow. Thanks Ben. This might sound odd, but my takeaway is something I said, but that you reflected back to me, Tammy, that that's how God does it. Mm-hmm. And that, that we have examples of that all around that. I have examples of that all around in my own life, in the scriptures, in the life of my friends, and that that's one of the ways that I can exercise faith, is to just trust that that's how God does it.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and he did it with the children of Israel. He did it with the people of Alma. He did it with the Nephites. He'll do it with me. He did it with Ben. He does it with you. That's just how God does it. The thing I love about the story in Exodus is it's so big what he does that of course he can do the little thing I'm asking for.

Like that's what's so great about these storylines is just a reminder, like, really that happened? You bet it did. So he's got you. [01:09:00] He can do. He can do anything. It's so cool. He can find you a parking spot. Yeah, it's fine. If he can see Ride the Red Sea, he can find you a parking spot. And those are my favorite little prayers to have during the day is like Heavenly Father.

I know that didn't matter, but thank you for doing that today. Thank you. I love that. I have said that you could help part of Red Sea. Surely you could help me. That is so good, Heidi. I have said that before. That's perfect. Uh, my takeaways. These were so great. So it is Heidi when you said, and that's how God does it.

But I also like to connect it to back to second EFI 27 20, how we started. I am able to do my own work. Yeah. And he does. That's how God does it. And then Ben, I loved it when you talked to file, first of all, your testimony of Jesus Christ and how God's used you to testify of him. I bel I've always thought that and believed it about you and ever since I've met you and known you and then I love at the end when you're like, I have, I am and I will.

What a great way to sum up this whole discussion today. Um, 'cause that's what he does. That's how he does it. So [01:10:00] thank you. I love you two. This was I love you too. Awesome. Wow, Heidi. I don't know what you were nervous about. I'll probably ask you to be on again 'cause this was so good. Love you both. Bye. Bye.

Bye.

Well, what eternal truth did you learn? What was your takeaway from this whole episode? Oh, there were so many things. What a great discussion. All right. Go join our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram and share what you've learned. Then at the end of the week on a Saturday, we're gonna post a question from this discussion, and here's the question that I wanna know.

How do you know? God knows you? Comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday, and it's not about any other go there. Anyway, you guys, that's where we're gonna have links to the references as well as a transcript of this whole discussion, so go check it out.

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our [01:11:00] Perfect study group participants were Ben Schilaty and Heidi Vogeler, and you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday.

Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week, and please remember, oh boy, after this week's discussion, you better remember that God sees you, he hears you. He knows you because you are his favorite.

Heidi, thank you for getting so personal. I have to tell you why I have a very dear friend who listens to the podcast and when you said at the very beginning that your anxiety, how it makes you feel, I heard her voice like that is how she describes her anxiety. She's brilliant just like you, and she doesn't know what to do with it.

She's never had anybody relate. 'cause none of us in the friend group have anxiety, really. And so thank you for being so real. She's going to cry when she hears your voice and when she hears her experience, she will weep. Yeah. That fight or flight mode. She always says that. She says, I feel like Jason born [01:12:00] on a daily basis.

Like I gotta get out there and save the world. But I, you know, she's just like, mm-hmm. Her mind is at two in the morning, she's trying to figure out how to write a computer code to save humanity. And she doesn't even know the computers, but she's so smart. She can figure it out. It's just constant. Right.

Well, and I imagine, I mean, that's how I think Moses feels, right? He's like, you want me to go do what? Like the king wants to kill me. Yeah. So he's like literally in fight or flight mode and God's like, Nope, I'm sending you back there. I mean, and yeah, he waited until the, that king had died. But still, yeah, like talk about anxiety and I'm, I can't speak and I can't do these things.

And I wasn't even raised with them and they were gonna hate me 'cause they hated me when I left. Like, yeah, I feel that. No, I thank you though. I appreciate you being real. That is so awesome. You know, it's funny, I'm like, Ben, like I've never had anxiety ever. Like, la la la life's good. It's gonna work out.

Uh, you know, and then, but then I went, started going through menopause, which I found out anxiety's a side effect. I had my first anxiety moment of my [01:13:00] life. I was just sitting watching tv. My heart started racing. I started panicking. I'm so sorry. Do see people, will you be my therapist? Do you take clients?

I'm not kidding right now. I do, but I, I'd rather, I'd rather have friends that I just talk to. Oh, okay. Great. Maybe I'll just call you then, because I dunno what to do with this. Call me. I am like, ask me like I'm a wreck. Yeah. Okay. That makes, it's, it's biological with my, like hormones. We never, we don't talk about this enough.

We're getting way off track. Sorry. Cool. But it's like, sorry Ben. Totally. Nope. But men experienced this too, but more so with women like hormones, we don't talk about the hormones enough because they mess, like after birth when we go through menopause, like it's, it's killing you. It's crazy making, it's crazy making, I'm so sorry.

It's ridiculous. I'm so sorry. Thank you. Because I just think, and it's real, Ben, it's bad. That's, I'll take her a package. Thank you. No, that's the tricky thing is that it feels so real. Yeah. Is that To [01:14:00] prepare me. Is it the spirit or is it my anxiety? And that that is by far the hardest part of managing and dealing with anxiety in life is, is it the spirit or is it me?

And usually if it's you're living in fear and it's not a fruit, it's it's anxiety. But so much easier said than done. Way easier said than done. I just needed you to say what you said to me. Heidi, thank you so much. You just freed me. I saw that like a literal like Yes you did. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you.

You were inspired. Thank you heavenly father, for putting these two on the podcast right now. I needed this today. I've been a wreck for the last week, so thank you. Thank you, thank you. Well, and Elder Scott talked about this in a general conference talk, and I think it was Elder Reland or somebody re-quoted it, but like jalapenos and grapes.

Do you know what I'm talking about? No. Elder Richard G. Scott said, the inspiring influence of the Holy Spirit can be overcome or masked by strong emotions such as anger, hate, [01:15:00] passion, fear, or pride, and I would add anxiety. Thank you. When such influences are present, it is like trying to savor the delicate flavor of a grape while eating a jalapeno pepper.

Both flavors are present, but one completely overpowers the other. In like manner strong emotions overcome the delicate promptings of the Holy Spirit, and it's like trying to, you eat a jalapeno and then trying to savor the tenderness of a grape and the spirit is a grape. And how can you taste or really understand what the grape is doing in your mouth when you've got this jalapeno just like burning.

Inside of you. And there's no way, there's no way that you can totally feel the spirit. And so in those moments, like I had another big, like COVID was a big anxiety moment. And then two years ago, I had another one where Sister Dennis talked about it, like hers was depression, mine was anxiety, but it was, I don't even know if God even exists anymore.

Like that's how hot the jalapeno [01:16:00] was. It was like, I've had these grape moments, but I don't even know if grapes exist anymore. And oh my gosh. And I had to rely, rely on, I had to rely on friends. I had to rely on, okay, I had this moment when I was 14 and I can't deny that. And so what do I do? And it just, it's those jalapeno grape moments.

Wow. And then eventually the jalapeno wears off and you can taste the grape again, but you just gotta get through those moments. Oh wow. That summed me up perfectly. Thank you. I just have to remember, it's just jalapeno. It's just jalapeno. Just to put some cheese. It'll all be better. It'll be just fine.

Well, now you speak my love language, so

Oh, wow. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Heidi, for pointing that out. That is so cool. That right there you were my lamb's ear. Yay, this Heidi. Thank you.