Season 4 Ep. 44

Tammy Uzelac Hall 0:00

Okay, listen, for any of you out there who are familiar with Jane Austen and her works, you know how important letters are to her stories, like so many letters are written and sent. I actually find myself barely breathing in anticipation of what her characters will say next or what Mr. Darcy has to say to Elizabeth. And go ahead and do yourself a favor and watch the BBC six hour version, you will not be sorry. Now, have you ever corresponded with someone strictly by letter? Have you ever read someone's private letters? You know, the assumption with letter writing is that no one else will ever read those letters, right. Well, sorry, Paul. This week, we are going to read Paul's private letters to his friends, Timothy Titus and Phil Amman. And we're going to discover if they were really meant for us or if maybe they should have just been kept private. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS Living where we take the Come follow me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now if you're new to our study group, I just want to make sure you know how to use this podcast so please follow the link in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come follow me study. Just like my friends Jana Blauer and Bonnie christison Heyburn from Idaho. Hi, ladies. I'm so glad I got to meet you. Okay, now another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different. And today we've got an oldie but a goodie Shar how Hello, Shar.

Sharmaine Howell 1:29

Ah me so fun to be here.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:31

Shar's a regular, we love her. Then we have a friend of ours that we've invited. Her name is Stacy Shaw. Hi, Stace.

Stacey Shaw 1:39

Hello, school glad to be here too.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:41

How do we all know each other? Tell the story.

Sharmaine 1:45

So I met Stacy when I was in your awards. So you two are in the same word. Right. Stacey and I have kids the same ages and we did Joy school. Do you know what joy school is? Tammy? Never did Joy school with your kids? No, like at home parents, like a co op swap preschool that's values based. It was so fun. Was Yeah, you had to get used to your kids teaching and that's why it's values based. Yeah, sure. Sure. I'm out. It was so fun to do that with us, Stacy. I loved it.

Stacey 2:20

It feels like a million years ago. But I guess that's what time does. It keeps ticking. So yeah.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 2:27

Well, the threes and I love these two women so much is because they were part of the original Bible study group used to get together at chars house back when Come follow me very first started. And it was kind of the impetus for why we do Sunday on Monday, because I had done it earlier with some of my friends when I was single, we've talked about that Becky Farley, Holly, Holly and Susan. But then we redid it with our friends in our ward. And it was so awesome.

Stacey 2:54

It was great. Yeah, it was like the best time ever.

Sharmaine Howell 2:58

It got me really. I mean, maybe it was also come follow me, but I'm gonna give you the credit. It got me like really digging into my scriptures, you know, on a weekly, like, how would I talk about this with my friends? How would we look dig into this? How would we you know, I loved him. It was so fun.

Stacey 3:12

It was so great for the preparation for family and to talk about it amongst the kids too. So it was it was wonderful.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 3:18

Well, my favorite part was that you guys would come with questions. And you would ask those questions. You say, What is this mean? Or you'd share your own perspective on what it meant to you. And so for me, it was the first time where I wasn't just teaching because in Gospel doctrine, I taught gospel doctrine in our word for years. But it was just a different experience because it really was where we were just really having. Yeah, discussion about Scripture. So good. So good. So I'm hoping we do that today. Again, okay, so just channel your inner Bible study, ladies, because we have some great things to talk about. And so we're gonna dig into that. But if you guys want to know more about my guests and see their bios, you can find them in our show notes which are found at LDS On Monday, so go there and check it out. Alright, ladies, so here we go. Grab your scriptures, your scripture journals and something to mark your Scriptures with and let's dig in to Timothy, Titus and filamin. Okay, so I asked you guys to read through these letters, which I have done this whole time that we've been studying letters and just tell me what's one thing that stood out to you as you read?

Sharmaine Howell 4:22

Well, first of all, I think when I heard that we were reading these letters, I was like, Oh, dang, we got the Rando section and what in the heck is in this right? reads these chapters you know, you know, like the Scripture song, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John the Acts and Romans and then you're like, oh, I don't know whether as Peter Peter, John, John John, translation, it's like, wasn't the middle I don't know.

Stacey 4:49

It's in the middle Shar, the middle.

Sharmaine Howell 4:51

It is the middle and I did like after I read it, there are some really good nuggets in here. So go ahead, Stacy. Do you share what you like first?

Stacey 4:59

Oh, I I really enjoyed them. I think the two things that really stood out to me as an overall theme was to really keep standing strong and to keep trying. Because I think so many times we want to fall back on the easy or fall back on something that is familiar. But I think that was what I was noticing from the homies is to keep trying, and then also to know for ourselves, there's a lot of really figuring it out on your own studying the gospel, knowing what you're supposed to be standing for, and moving forward with that. So those are my two nuggets that I made nuggets, so.

Sharmaine Howell 5:36

Okay, so I think my favorite part that stood out to me out of all of the four letters, was in First Timothy, chapter one right off the bat. And it's kind of this, this feeling and the theme of don't miss the mark, is what I was what I wrote in my scriptures. And Paul is telling Timothy, correct me if I'm wrong, Tammy, Paul's telling Timothy that he was a sinner, that he was a really bad guy. And then he changed his ways, right? And he, he came, because in verse, First Timothy, chapter one, verse 15, he said, Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. Like, I'm chief of the senators on the worst, right? You love that? Paul? Just says that about himself. He's like, Yeah, I'm

Tammy Uzelac Hall 6:21

the worst.

Sharmaine Howell 6:22

Right? It makes me think of Alma. He's like, I'm the vilest of sinners, right? He's, he's okay to say it, he's okay to say, I've messed up and I've made mistakes, and I'm the worst of all the sinners. And, and then he said, in verse 16, how be it for this cause I obtained mercy he's like, but I had mercy given to me by Jesus Christ. And he showed fourth long suffering for a pattern to them, which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. And so he's like, but I got mercy. And you can, too. So Timothy, you need to teach this to your people. Because no matter what you've done, it's okay. Because you can get his mercy. And then I looked up, I don't know if this is right, but I looked it up. And so it said this, that the word sin in Greek is Amartya. And that word means missing the mark. That is true. That is true. So when we sin, we're missing the mark. I don't know if I'm saying the Greek word, right. I'm probably butchering it. But I just really liked that thought of sending is missing the mark. And, you know, and it's so easy for us to miss the mark in the in the in, in the Gospel, and to like, focus and think, Oh, this is the mark, this is the target. This is I'm aiming at, but actually, it's just Jesus Christ is the mark, you know, it's not all the principles is me. It's not all the policies, it's not all the, the doctrines and the things that we're all worried about. It's, it's Jesus Christ, and he's the mark. And so if, if we're sinning and, you know, if I'm the chief of all of it, and I'm missing all the marks, then I juvies, you have to remember that, that the mark is us as Christ and we don't want to miss the mark.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 8:00

Oh, sure. I believe that with all of my heart, I have loved studying that idea of missing the mark, and that the mark is Christ. So you are 100% Spot on. I wrote next to that first Timothy, don't miss the mark. So good.

Stacey 8:14

What is the sin is repentance, right? And repentance is turning towards God. And I think that that's just that change is that change of heart that helps us be able to go from a sinner to a believer and a try to keep trying. And I think that's what's key.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 8:30

Great nuggets from these books. I had the laugh because Shar was saying earlier, she's like, Timothy, Titus and filamin. Who do we really read those books? Or do we just skip over them? And I thought that was so funny, because you're right, we get to these and we're like, we're doing with a thought as well. I'm,

Sharmaine Howell 8:47

I'm gonna go I'm gonna write to Hebrews.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 8:51

really true. That is awesome. So I think anybody who's wondering that, like, do we really study these books, Stacy, you set us up perfectly by the message is stand strong, keep trying and know for yourselves. And I think there will be some. And for me what I was reading, there are some awesome little golden nuggets. And so I My question for you with this, though, is how I started out. I mean, how do you feel, knowing that we're reading Paul's personal letters to his friends?

Sharmaine Howell 9:19

Yeah, I feel like after reading them, especially, I feel like you know, some of it. I'm like, Oh, interesting thoughts from Paul. And you know, and maybe there was just very specific things of that time of that of that era, that don't really apply to us. And so it's not like all of it is applicable in our lives, and we should just take it all away. And you know, that as far as it is translated correctly, always comes to my mind when I'm reading some of these like, maybe that's not right. But I'm like, what, specifically? Oh, you know, First Timothy, chapter two, talking about women, it's better for them to learn in silence and subjection, and I don't want I don't want you Women to you know, to teach. So you're doing the wrong thing Tammy in the teaching business, right?

Tammy Uzelac Hall 10:05

I wouldn't like me, right? So there's just

Sharmaine Howell 10:07

a little bit of talk about women and their place and what they should and shouldn't do. And I'm not sure if that was just a time period specific thing, but definitely, obviously something we don't believe in. And so I do know that when Brian and I were dating, we communicated through letters only for about four months, because I went on a study abroad. And he would be sad to hear that I read them out loud to all the girls on the study abroad. personal letters that were meant for just me, I'd be like, Guys, listen up. This is something he said, This is so cute. Or, you know, like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe you said that. He's saying, I love you. This is crazy, you know, and we're all chatting about it as girls, but you know, sometimes personal letters are meant just for the one person and maybe you shouldn't share them. You still

Tammy Uzelac Hall 10:55

have those letters? Yeah,

Sharmaine Howell 10:57

I do. They're great. Sweet. Right? How often do you have like so many words written? From what your dating experience? You know, like recorded and you can keep it? You most of it's just verbal, right when you're dating? Yeah. Oh, how can I have a fun unique experience? Yeah.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 11:15

Oh, that is wow. Shark. Do you think you'll let your kids read them?

Sharmaine Howell 11:18

I think Brian won't. I know, a little bit like at some points in the letters, you'd be like, turn with me to, you know, turn with me to First Nephi Shar. Like that's how he wrote in the letter. And he was like, Oh my gosh, Shara was so over the top. I can't believe I wrote that to you.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 11:39

I can it sounds just like brand. Oh, that's sweet. That is awesome. Thank you. What about you stays for reading personal letters.

Stacey 11:50

Oh, I thought I I kind of liked the gossip. So I like to be able to get into people's lives and kind of sing it. But I thought it was so funny because there was a section I think it was in second Timothy 413 that he talks about. Oh, and I forgot I left my cloak. So and so's house if you'll bring that and the parchment so it kind of was like adding the to do list to all those kind of, here's all the good stuff. We're gonna talk about all the stuff we need to prepare and get better at. And by the way, when you come bring me my coat, bring me my parchments bring me all that this person because they're really important to the Gospel. And then he kind of went on to the other things, but I thought that was so hilarious. Kind of like a little bit of a personal touch to it. So.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 12:31

Oh, absolutely. Stace. I'm so glad you brought that up, because that verse makes it real right there. Yeah. Like he really is just writing a letter to his buddies. Like, Hey, guys. I wonder if Paul was like, I really wasn't planning on those letters going public. It'd be fun to talk to Paul later on. Like, if he was to say, You got to just scrap those? I don't know. Yeah, I had some really great letters. And you didn't put those in.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 12:56

Right? What about all the other letters? You're totally right. That is so funny. Well, that's gonna be sort of our quest today is to find the golden nuggets in these letters and really ask ourselves why did these letters from Paul to Timothy Titus and Phil Amman get put in specifically the letter to fill them on, which will lead for the very end? Many people wonder like, why would we have included this? And we're gonna have a great discussion about that. So hang on, I cannot wait. So here's what we're going to do. Then. In the very next segment, we are going to start to discuss Paul's letter to Timothy. And we're going to find out what that specific correspondence was all about.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 13:40

Okay, first of all, let's just talk about who is Timothy now this is neat because the name Timothy so right there on your page where it says, The First Epistle of Paul to the apostle Timothy right and equal sign and then put honored of God. That's what the name Timothy means honored of God. So Timothy was perhaps Paul's most trusted and capable assistant. Timothy was later called as a church leader in Ephesus. But how did he get there? Like what is his background? Now we covered this briefly in Acts chapter 16. verses one through three, but we didn't talk about it extensively because I wanted to wait until we got to First and Second Timothy, to learn this about him. So if you go to Acts chapter 16, verse one through three quickly turn there. It's going to tell us a little bit about his parents. So Acts chapter 16, verses one through three. Now specifically, we just want to focus on verse one. Shar we read that for us?

Sharmaine Howell 14:35

Yeah. Then came here to Derby and Lystra and behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timothy is the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewish and believed but his father was a Greek.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 14:48

Okay, so right there. We know his parentage is his father's Greek, which means he's not a believer. His mother is a Jew, and she believed. Now that's super important because Then we're going to cross reference that with Second Timothy chapter one, verse five. So go ahead and right next to number one, Second Timothy, chapter one, verse five. And let's go to Second Timothy now and cry. Did you shake your

Sharmaine Howell 15:12

head? I just love to Scripture when I read it, like nobody like that. We don't usually point out women and mothers and grandmothers in the scriptures. Yes. That's all powered to the faithful women line. Right?

Tammy Uzelac Hall 15:25

Okay, read that verse for a second Timothy chapter one, verse five,

Sharmaine Howell 15:29

when I call to remembrance, the unfeigned faith that is in me, which dwelt first in my grandmother Lois, and my mother, Eunice, and I am persuaded that in the also, he's like, don't forget where you get this great faith from right. From these the women that raised you. I love that. Oh,

Tammy Uzelac Hall 15:47

it is so cool. How? Yes, I agree. Paul is calling out remember your unfeigned faith. And here's where it came from. So Mark, the mom and the grandmother's name. We have grandmother Lois and mother. Eunice. So Eunice means good or happy. And Lois means more pleasant or desirable. That's what their names mean. Isn't that so fun?

Stacey 16:11

Love to hear. So you could have just said grandmother and your mother, but he included the names of them. And that makes a little bit more special.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 16:19

Why stays tell me why it makes specialty.

Stacey 16:21

I just think that when you know someone's name, and you call them by their name, it just brings such a more personal connection to it. And I think the same in the scriptures. When we hear those names, whether it's Jesus Christ or Lois, and Eunice, I think draws us closer to them. And I think that we can learn from that a little bit.

Sharmaine Howell 16:41


Tammy Uzelac Hall 16:43

And the importance of women in Timothy's story. So next verse five, put this cross reference, put second Timothy chapter three, verse 15. And let's turn there. Just turn one page over. And let's find out what else this verse teaches about him and his mother and grandmother. So Second Timothy, chapter three, verse 15. And Stacy, will you read verse 15? For us? You bet.

Stacey 17:08

And that from a child now has known the Holy Scriptures which are able to make the wise unto salvation through faith, which is in Jesus Christ.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 17:17

Now remember, his father is a Greek, not a believer, who would have taught this young boy about scriptures.

Sharmaine Howell 17:25

His mother, and his grandmother, obviously,

Tammy Uzelac Hall 17:28

right? Yeah, that is the presumption of this verse is that he was taught scripture by his mother and grandmother. Well, we just have to reference this talk called a plea to my sisters, it was given in October of 2015. From President Nelson, he was not our Prophet at the time. But there is so much goodness in this letter, I say letter, because it was actually talked, but if he was writing this, this is what we would have read about us. I just have to this one part of the letter stood out to me, I keep saying letter, but a hawk,

Sharmaine Howell 17:59

the Prophet, these are all letters to us. Yeah, exactly what

Tammy Uzelac Hall 18:03

the ensign is when it comes out at conference time, it's the letters to us. I want to read this one part of his talk that made me really think about Eunice and Lois and all of us. So here we go, Stacy, we read this for us.

Stacey 18:14

Attacks against the church, its doctrine and our way of life are going to increase. Because of this, we need women who have a bedrock understanding of the doctrine of Christ, and who will use that understanding to teach and help raise a sin resistant generation. We need women who can detect deception in all of its forms. We need women who know how to access the power that God makes available to covenant keepers, and who expressed their beliefs with confidence and charity. We need women who have the courage and vision of our mother Eve, and Eunice and Lois.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 18:47

I added Unison Lois.

Sharmaine Howell 18:50

I was like she mentioned

Tammy Uzelac Hall 18:52

I added that he answered the mother eat but I was like an Unison lowest. Because, look, tell me as you were, as we were reading that quote, like what is significant about that in the day we live in today?

Sharmaine Howell 19:04

Yeah, I love that. I love that we need women so many times, right? And the confidence and the clarity and the all those words, he is covenant keepers in the power it's just there's so much strength and power that we can have and, and share and give to each other as women and to our children and right like this. And like you said at the beginning attacks against the church, and its doctrine and our way of life are going to increase period. That's it. Like we have to either you're going to just it's going to increase and we're gonna do nothing about it, or we're gonna have to increase our confidence and our faith and our, in our clarity and our charity. Right.

Stacey 19:42

I love it. He used the word bedrock because I think in Timothy who uses the word foundation a lot and I feel like that those are kind of synonymous and that we have to have that foundation that bedrock that complete understanding in order for us to really detect that deception that he talks about. Yeah,

Tammy Uzelac Hall 19:58

if I ask you to has come follow me. The Come follow me program done that for you giving you that bedrock.

Stacey 20:08

I think when done right, we're not perfect by any means. But I think when we bring it to the forefront of our family life, actually let me back up. I think when I bring that to the forefront of my personal life, then I can then bring it to my family in a better light and have my own foundation to be able to teach to my kids. Yeah,

Sharmaine Howell 20:31

I remember when we started that Bible study at my house, I just had this like this power, it filled me all the time. I was like, Oh, my gosh, I'm learning this. And I wanted to share it so badly with my kids, you know, in the Come follow me program came out right then. And it was like, Oh, and here's the setting where we can share the Scriptures with them. Like, this is so awesome. And we could figure out how and when we wanted to do it. But me knowing those scriptures and digging in and having that doctrine and the truth and the knowledge for myself, I was able to share it so much more profoundly with them with my own confidence and with my own belief in it, that I think it's hopefully for them, but for sure, for me it strengthened my testimony along the way.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 21:13

Yeah. Beautifully said both of you. Have you found yourselves in situations where maybe a child or a family member or a friend have asked you gospel questions. And you've known answers, like things have popped into your head and you're like, I don't know how I knew that. But I do. Yeah,

Sharmaine Howell 21:29

not often. But yeah. Most of the time, I'm like, blank, like, Oh, crap. I do know this. But what is it?

Stacey 21:38

Specific time though, when we were in a little family trip to Arizona, and I do remember, one of my kids brought up a question about Jesus Christ, I can't remember what it was. But I just happened to have been reading the New Testament and learning about particular stories. And I said, Well, did you know and did you know what Jesus Christ did? And how does that relate to you? And it was just a really cool experience. And I was like, Yes, I didn't get that might be the one and only time sharp. But other than that,

Sharmaine Howell 22:07

that is so good. So true. Well,

Tammy Uzelac Hall 22:09

here's the power of what we just read, and how significant it is for any woman within the sound of my voice. It doesn't matter if you have kids or not. Every single one of us women have influence over children, nieces, nephews, church, callings neighbors, whatever it is that incredible to think that we can have influence over them, because we are studying the Scriptures. And the significant thing about this is because of Timothy's mother and grandmother, he will then that he will then become a bishop. And he doesn't know what he's doing. And he's very nervous about this. And so the one piece of instruction that Paul is going to give him is found in First Timothy chapter four. Let's go there and read this verse of scripture. I almost imagine Paul saying, I know it's hard Timothy, you're in a part member family, this may be confusing or difficult. You might feel inadequate to be a bishop. So let me just give you this one piece of advice. First Timothy, chapter four, verses 10 through 16. Here we go. We're going to specifically focus on verse 12. So shall we please read for us? 10 to 12.

Sharmaine Howell 23:13

Yeah. For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe these things command and teach, let no man despise that youth. but be thou an example of the believers, in Word in conversation, in charity, in spirit in faith in purity.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 23:36

Thank you. Let's pause there. Verse 12. And it says, Let no man despise the youth, some scholars believe he was really young to be a bishop, or like, There's no way he's capable of doing this. But did either one of you have verse 12, marked in your scriptures? Tell me why.

Sharmaine Howell 23:54

I just sometimes we just go about thinking maybe we're not capable, or we're not up to the standard that we need to be in order to teach. Right? I was given the gospel doctrine calling three years ago, and I'm still doing it. But you know, just that feeling of inadequacy, you know, and not knowing how I'm going to teach and people who are older than me who know more than me have more experienced than me and feeling that the inadequacy of that, but I love that it that it goes on and it says in 14 neglect, not the gift that is in the I think he's saying like yeah, you might feel young. But and you need to be an example always like you can't, don't give up and you need to always be a good example. But don't neglect the gift that is in you. And I think Paul, Paul talks about the gift frequently throughout his letters, like, don't forget the gift you've been given, don't forget the gift. And I've highlighted that a few times. And you know, which was given me by prophecy and laying on of hands. So, to me, it's, you know, it's the gifts of the Spirit and it's also the priesthood, the power of the priesthood, which is the power of God. given to all of us, men and women, we all have that power to call upon. And, you know, so we know we can No, we don't have to go into any of these situations feeling inadequate, if we're calling upon God's power.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 25:13

Beautifully said, Sure. I like that so much. Thanks for pointing out that the gift.

Stacey 25:18

And I think also that with that laying on of hands, I think so many times we get a calling, right? And then we have no clue, no clue what we're doing until we get that setting apart. And then we're like, Okay, I have, I think I can do this, I think I've gotten this down. So I think that that's also an important part of that scripture, too. Thank you. But I do have to go back to 12. Because I think the other thing that really came to me and Tammy knows this, but I just was called into young women's, and maybe I told you sure, I can't remember. And I think that the biggest thing that I'm learning and I've known for years, but when you're involved in it, again, you kind of put yourself into that situation. But our youth are leaders. And I think in that verse 12, where it says despise their youth. And I think that's the same with our youth, sometimes we don't give them enough credit for because they're too young, you know, they can't lead they can't, you know, make up activities or bring other people into the gospel or whatever. But it's so not true. The furthest For the Strength of Youth is that direction, and it's really putting the opportunity to lead with the youth, despite their youth, you know. So I think that that's also something I picked up from, from verse 12, is that our youth are really strong, and that that's a great opportunity for us to let them lead to stay. So

Tammy Uzelac Hall 26:38

that was great perspective on that. Thank you for sharing that, that despise thy youth. And then 15 meditate upon these things. I like the word meditate right there, like just go ahead and think about all of this, but then give myself wholly to them. And that right there is the key. Like I know you're scared, just being an example. Lean into the gift you've been had that hands laid on your head. All of this discussion is such great advice to this young bishop who is terrified and maybe didn't even have a bishop growing up and has no idea what he's doing. So in the next segment, we are going to learn a another piece of advice that Paul has for this young Bishop

Tammy Uzelac Hall 27:25

All right, you too. I have a fun question for you. What are you afraid of?

Sharmaine Howell 27:30

Spiders. Mm hmm. Hi, Cliff cliffs that my children are running close near the edge of my children growing up. What else?

Tammy Uzelac Hall 27:41

Oh, wow, you got a list. Nice sharp the boogey man. What do you read stays?

Stacey 27:47

That's for sure. Kidnappers very scared of those claustrophobic anything tight spaces for sure is tricky for me. Oh, I didn't know that about you. So being in my closets really tight.

Sharmaine Howell 28:02

Tell me what are you afraid of?

Tammy Uzelac Hall 28:03

Oh, for sure. Spiders. Number one. Yeah, that's it. In fact, just recently, we've noticed some big old wolf spiders in our house like you. I mean, this big I am I like I can barely put my finger finger to my thumb when I say the circle like huge, gigantic wolf spiders and I scream my head off.

Sharmaine Howell 28:23

And you don't kill them, right?

Tammy Uzelac Hall 28:25

No, of course I don't. I can't imagine do your job. Right? Yeah. Oh, yeah, Jim. Jim's killing the spiders. For me.

Sharmaine Howell 28:32

I think my fear is the actual squishing as the spider I don't want to do that. So I get a big glass cup and I put it over top of it. So I can't run away. Oh, and then I lay there until someone can come along and kill it.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 28:46

I once learned in college and a psychology class the children inherit their mom's fears. I vividly remember that thinking, Well, when I have kids. I'm going to be strong and not afraid of spiders yet that didn't work. My kids are terrified of spiders now. Terrified. I should have turned like Why couldn't I have been terrified of cookies? Sweets. Something that really would have mattered. Ever? Okay, I want you to think about things that you're afraid of. Because we have these surface fears. But then the world we live in today we have some deeper fears, don't we? Some more real fears. Can I ask you? What more? Would you be willing to share? Is there a more real fear that you carry with you?

Sharmaine Howell 29:27

Yeah, probably people not accepting me for who I am. So feeling like I need to maybe mold to the situation or the group that I'm in so that they'll accept me instead of just being all me all the time because I'm afraid of not being accepted if I'm known, you know.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 29:45

Oh, wow. That was that was good. That was a deep fear.

Sharmaine Howell 29:50

So please accept me kami for me.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 29:53

Okay, dun, dun dun.

Stacey 29:58

I think I have a fear of My kids dying. I know that that sounds so heavy. But I think that that's a fear as a mother, you have to feel like you have to protect all the time. And, and that becomes a little worrying. I think sometimes my kids have some health problems. And so I feel like I'm have to always be on top of their help, in order for me to be on top of it. So that's a little bit of fear for me.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 30:24

Thank you for both of you for sharing those fears. But I think about my own children. We have a lot of anxiety in my family, a lot of fears. And I remember last year was the first time when my daughter Sofia spheres actually came to fruition, her fear because she watches the news. And we watch the news is of some of the shooter coming to her school. That's very real fear. And last year, that happened, they had to lock the school down, because allegedly a boy brought a gun to school. It wasn't true. It didn't happen. But it was a it was a rumor. And so they had to go into lockdown. And that was a reality for her. Such a reality. And then that night in bed, she didn't want to go back to school, and I couldn't blame her. Right. So I really, really loved the Scripture. In Second Timothy I have it has been my go to for my children, my friends, even students, they would come in to talk to me in my seminary office, about things that they were going through and how they were afraid of certain things. And it's in Second Timothy chapter one, verse seven, if there ever was a scripture to be in vinyl lettering or cross stitched on a pillow. This is going to be it especially for the day and time that we live in Second Timothy chapter one, verse seven, and Stace, we read that for us

Stacey 31:37

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 31:43

There it is. Okay. Now look at that. Did either one of you have that marketing your scriptures? Yeah, you bet. Why Shar? Why'd you say you bet.

Sharmaine Howell 31:53

It's just that faith over fear. You know, I think we have to think about that often in life. And I like, I like to read it, where it says, God has not given us the spirit of fear, but, but the spirit of power and the spirit of love, and have a sound mind. Because, you know, we there's, there's just so much more to it than you know, we just have some power. And we have love with us like we are given and like it says up above in verse six, you know, stir up. But I put the in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in the he's like, don't forget that gift. It's so it's there again, you know, and he's saying, you have the spirit of power, you have the spirit of love. It's all I'm giving this to you. This is from me to you. And so yeah, we're going to be afraid. We're going to be afraid to share what we know and to do the things that we are afraid to do. But but we have, you know, his power in us again.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 32:51

Wasn't marked in your space.

Stacey 32:53

Yeah, I faith over fear is huge. I think over the past several years with COVID. And all the junk that have gone on with air, I think that a lot of us had to rely on faith over fear. And my little girl, right before COVID, I guess, had had to have open heart surgery. And I was shouldering all the burden, it was so heavy and it was feeling like I failed, or why does she have to have this? Or is it really real, you know, and I remember just having this whole burden on me. And it was the night before her surgery, and I was just a mess. And and I just finally sat down and I said I can't do this, I have to give it to you. And that was the only thing that I could do. And not that I knew that I should do that. But I just knew I couldn't do it myself. I just there was I was gonna break. And so I remember giving this feeling of, I'm giving it to you so that I can move forward with that faith. So I had to get rid of that fear, and that pressure so that I could move forward with faith and just know that whatever happened that it was, God was in control. And I did not need to have that fear with me.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 34:03

Stacy, tell me what that was like, because I've had people ask me this question, often what you just described when they say, but how do you really give it to the Lord? Well, let's be clear. Listen, right now in the world. It's scary. It is very scary. And many of us are just glued to social media and the news to find out what's going on. And I'll just say right now for me the current world events, they're being met with fear. I'm nervous. So how did you get out from that prayer? And what did it feel like to really give it to the Lord?

Stacey 34:34

It was a feeling of only felt a couple times in my life. So I don't think it's something that is constantly there. I think that's something you physically have to give. And I it was it was mostly because I didn't have anything left. I didn't have the power or the ability to keep all the plates in the air anymore. And they were all falling. And so that was Honestly, the only choice that I had left was to try to just give it away. And it was the most relieving feeling I have ever felt only once one other time that I can think of at the moment, but it was just the pressure was gone, it was gone. And I no longer felt that I needed to keep her alive, but that it was my job to do it all. But that that was the Lord's job and that my job was to be her mom, whatever came. So

Sharmaine Howell 35:28

that sounds like such great trust. Right? You had so much trust in God that that you could just let him be the one in charge. That's so great.

Stacey 35:37

That That wasn't easy. I think that it's something that most of us women who aren't in control all the time or tried to have all the ducks in order and things. It's not an easy thing to do. So it's it's a hard it's a hard process.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 35:52

Mm hmm. Willing going into that surgery, there must have been such a level of uncertainty for you. Like, not know, I don't know what's gonna happen, right? Yeah. Yep.

Stacey 36:04

Always the unknown. That uncertainty, right, Tammy? We that's the one that gets time.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 36:10

Yeah, absolutely. And for our listeners, Stacey, can you give us an update on how your daughter's doing?

Stacey 36:15

She's doing she's doing super great. She'll probably have to have some more surgeries in the future. But at the moment, she is stable and doing great just started first grade and isn't loving it all the time. But it's moving.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 36:29

And she's the cutest little girl. Oh, I love her in primary that girl. Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it. Something that stands out to me with this verse. And the thing that I often remind my children, when I've read it, specifically this summer, I sent it to my daughter, who was having a really hard time being away for Fs, why she has a lot of anxiety around being away from me, because in her mind, my sister's mom died. So my mom's gonna die. That's just how it works, mom's die. And so we've been going to counseling and therapy to help her work through some of that anxiety. So she does not like to be away from me because she thinks something bad will happen. And so I sent this tour and I helped her explain like, Honey, these fears that you're having, those aren't from our Heavenly Father, if you can just take a moment to recognize all of these thoughts that are popping into your head. And oh, the amount of counseling and therapy and breathing exercise and we've done it all for sure. But to help her understand like those are heavenly Father's not giving you this fear he is. And I like how you said that shar, he has given us the spirit of power and the spirit of love, and of a sound mind. And so those are the things that we can count on and rely on when it comes to our Heavenly Father. So that's a good reminder for me, when I start to have fears about things, and I too, I fear that my children are going to die. That's my deepest, darkest fear is that I'm going to lose any one of those four girls and it just and it sometimes spirals out of control real fast, like that escalated quickly. are already going down the road is about it's so irrational.

Sharmaine Howell 38:04

We do that to ourselves, though we let these feelings and these thoughts that have no foundation, right? I think I was crying last week that my sister and her family might move away from here. And she's like, I told her and she was like, Sure, what are you talking about? And we've never even talked about that. And I'm like, I know, but I'm so afraid you're gonna miss it. It's like, okay, get over this.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 38:27

I mean, it really does go fast. So, it this, this verse is a good reminder. And it was reminder to Timothy, Timothy, I know you're afraid. I know you're scared to do this. It is a scary time to be a Christian. We're not well liked. The apostasy is rolling. And yeah, God's not giving you the spirit of fear. Just remember that. And he knows it might not end well for Timothy. Yeah, at all.

Sharmaine Howell 38:53

But I think he's also saying, you were going to feel that feeling of fear. Because it is a real feeling. So you're going to feel it. It's going to be there. But it's not from God. Like you were saying to me. Yeah, so it's normal, and it's natural. And it's always present part of our life to have these feelings of uncertainty and fear. But then that do we need to remember that it's like, oh, wait a minute, you know, either I'm creating this or it's because of my serpent circumstances. But this isn't from God. So that's not my answer, because God's not sending me that as an answer. Right,

Stacey 39:28

at last part to the sound mind part, as we were just talking about our brain spiraling, you know, that we have that power, to create that sound mind to have that choice to bring to light, the reality or the truth so that we can have that foundation and knowledge to be able to have that power and love to move forward and get rid of that fear.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 39:51

Now, this is so fascinating too, because we talked about this last year, but the next is chapter 14. Let's look at verses 13 and 14. Because here's the situation, when the Israelites were finally able to go free under the hand of Pharaoh and the Egyptians, and they get down to the coast of the Red Sea, and here they are standing thinking, you know, sweet freedom, the verses, their hands were high in the air, and they were cheering. And then they turn around and see Pharaoh and all the armies, and we're like, oh, geez, here they are. And they talk. Yeah, we're stuck. We don't know where we're gonna go. And they actually say to Moses, it would have been better if you just left Egypt, or I love this one like, oh, did you just bring us here to bury us with the trick all along, because there's nowhere to go. And how much do we love that then the Moses says to the people stand still see the salvation of the Lord. And that stands still gets me because it's fair, not standstills what he says. And I love to teach this because in your brain, you have an amygdala, God gave you this part of your brain that makes you fear. It wants you to recognize when you're in a situation where you should be scared. And so anytime I read something where it's fear, not standstill, that the Lord's telling you do the exact opposite of what your body was created to do, those are so powerful words. But in that same story, I really love how then the Lord says, to hold your peace. And we talked about this last year, but that word hold your peace in Hebrew, actually means to be deaf to the voices around you. And it goes back to what you said, Stacey, all the thoughts that permeate our mind. That's not a sound mind. So the Lord saying be deaf to all those voices around you have a sound mind. But here's the cool thing I recently learned is that word can also mean to plow. And the very next verse in Exodus, the Lord says to Moses, why are you crying? Why are you in the children nose are crying, what's wrong, just go forward. And in the NIV version of the Bible, it doesn't say go forward, it says, move on. Like, yeah,

Sharmaine Howell 41:51

let's keep going. Yeah, it looks impossible, go forward. And they're like,

Tammy Uzelac Hall 41:56

go forward. It's just water. They didn't know what that looked like. And it seemed impossible. And then we come back to here like to I want to know more about Timothy. I mean, not only was he a bishop at a young age, but he would eventually become what is equivalent to an area authority in our day. And he would eventually train bishops at such a young age, so you can understand why he's feeling the way he's feeling. And why God's giving him this awesome instruction. Again, in verse six, the gift like you have the gift to do this. Yeah. So remember this, yeah, God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love and of a sound mind. It's just awesome.

Sharmaine Howell 42:34

And I like how you just said, he told them to be deaf to the sounds and voices around them. And in verse eight, here, in Timothy, verse eight, it says, Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, when we feel ashamed, it's because of what we think people are thinking about us. Right? And it's, it's our thoughts about what others are viewing us as, and how how we look to them, you know, so we have to be able to put that out of our mind, the voices and the opinions about us out of it, right. And I think part of the reason why we all fear, it says in verse eight, and it's because of this, but be thou partakers of the afflictions of the gospel, according to the power of God. And so he's like, You need to partake of the afflictions, this is gonna be hard, buddy. Like, just pick it up and take a bite of it. Come in, you know, sometimes we fear because we know it's gonna be hard. Or maybe like in Moses, it looks impossible, right? And we need to partake of it, we need, that's why we came to earth. You know, it's like, you know, Adam and Eve, they particular fruit so that men may be and we can learn and grow here. And so we need to partake of it and afflictions and all and somehow not be afraid as we go. But to remember that gift, the power of God that we have.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 43:49

Oh, yes, our Well, the Paul knew exactly what he was talking about. I'm so grateful you brought that up. So let's do this. Turn to Second Timothy, chapter four. And we're going to read verses five through seven. Based on just this wording alone, many scholars believe that second Timothy is the very last letter that Paul ever wrote. So here are his final words. And so Stacy, will you please read for a second Timothy chapter four, verses five through seven.

Stacey 44:14

But watch out in all things, indoor afflictions, do the work of the evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry, for I am now ready to be offered and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight. I have finished my course I have kept the faith

Tammy Uzelac Hall 44:34

kind of knows what he's talking about destiny.

Sharmaine Howell 44:36

Yeah, like that. In his personal letter to his friend. He's like, good luck. I've done what I'm supposed to do. And I've done it really well.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 44:47

Is such a good verse to end with. Absolutely. He's like, and I know how hard it's been. I fought a good fight. You can too. So let's just do this.

Sharmaine Howell 44:55

Yeah, I like that. Because in First Timothy, chapter six, verse 12. He, He tells Paul tells Timothy to do that he says, In First In First Timothy 612 Fight the good fight of faith lay hold on eternal life. So he was already encouraging him like, come on, we're fighting this good fight. Let's do it. You know, and he's like, I've done it. Now you need to go do it. Oh, God, this keep it going. I love that

Tammy Uzelac Hall 45:23

awesome connection. Sure. That was so great. Thank you. Thank you for putting that in there.

Stacey 45:28

Have you guys ever gotten to like an ending of a trial or something and you're like, or even on a trial, or just something really hard? And you're like, I rocked it. I did. So good. You know, it's like that same kind of a feeling like at the end of our life, I want to be able to look back and say, Oh, that was crazy hard. But I did awesome. You know, I fought that good fight. I did awesome. And I rocked it. So I hope I can help.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 45:54

Me too. That's my goal. I mean, I've said this before, but that's on my missionary plaque. I didn't, I didn't know what I was picking. I only chose that because the boy was in love with chose it. And I thought it'd be cool if we got married, and we both had the same scripture. I didn't know what I was doing.

Sharmaine Howell 46:08

But now those seeds just in case,

Tammy Uzelac Hall 46:11

I'm just putting it out there for the universe, as they like to say. But now I like it, Stace, in light of what you've just said, that's what I want on my head, my tombstone, like, put that there. I hope I can say that when all is said and done. So excellent. Thank you so much for your thoughts, like this verse is crucial in our day, and in light of all that's going on, and it especially connects to the Second Coming. So we're gonna talk about that in the next segment

Tammy Uzelac Hall 46:45

turn to the to Second Timothy, chapter three, verse one. Now ladies, I'm going to read this verse. And here's what your assignment is. I just want you to describe for me how this verse makes you feel. Or your feelings when you hear it. Okay, here we go. This no Oslo that in the last days, perilous times shall come. Yikes.

Sharmaine Howell 47:08

It's a little daunting, makes you feel like it's gonna be scary. perilous, right, that word perilous believes that much, but it seems like it's bad. It's really bad.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 47:19

Very bad. Now he's speaking of it. futuristically. Do you think we're living in it?

Sharmaine Howell 47:25

Yes. Were there 100%?

Tammy Uzelac Hall 47:30

Okay, why do you say 100%?

Sharmaine Howell 47:32

Well, because he goes on to describe a list and he has quite a long list. It's really long. And I wrote them down in my little notebook, just like in in the line. The other things he says. And then I put a star by all the ones that I felt like yep, yep, yep. Yep. Yeah. Like you can think about them all and be like, yes, that's totally happening.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 47:53

Okay, let's do this. Then everybody bracket off verses two through seven. And we're gonna make a list. And I'm Thank you, Shawn for doing that. And Stacey, I asked you guys to make a list. But wait a turn it up a notch there sure by putting stars by things that are going to be perfect for our discussion. So talk to me about the list you made. And maybe even if you know the verse it's in, kind of have a guide us through and have us mark our Scripture. So people listening can mark them, which is okay, you too, so share your list with me.

Stacey 48:24

I think a couple of things that pointed out to me, every single one of them that we'll probably talk about and that are listed here are all selfish. They're all individually manmade things. It's not like it talks about earthquakes and fires or anything like that. And these particular verses, those come in other verses, of course, in the Scripture, but in these particular verses are all individually manmade problems, I guess, right?

Sharmaine Howell 48:53

It says it right. So the very first thing it says in verse two, For men shall be lovers of their own selves, men are going to be selfish, right? That's what he's saying right off the bat. And to me, that's, you know, that's the exact opposite of the first two great commandments we've been asked to do. To love God and to love others. So right off the bat, we're not doing that. Right. Or people who are doing that more. In Intuit also says boasters, covetous, I immediately thought of Instagram and social media, we're on there boasting of ourselves, or we're coveting what we don't have right now that Instagrams always bad i love it as well but there's just so much of it going on. disobedient to parents, that is happening all day long. That's in verse two,

Stacey 49:44 keeps going there. Shar.

Sharmaine Howell 49:48

I actually thought I'm thankful was so interesting. I'm like in a list of all the things like things that way we ways we can sin. Being unthankful he listed shows me how much gratitude Do it is so important to us being on the right path and to having that sound mind is being grateful. It kind of grounds us and, and helps us to be looking outside of ourselves. Right?

Tammy Uzelac Hall 50:13

It goes back to this idea we've talked about this year, the gratitude prayer. Yeah. And just taking a moment to just all you do in your prayers give thanks and write for nothing.

Sharmaine Howell 50:22

Yeah. Yeah. Like President Nelson asked us to do during COVID. You know, that special message and, and he just gave gratitude. You know, he's like, we want to hear gratitude. Makes you think like, he read this verse and was like, Oh, we're being thankful when you start showing gratitude, you know. Also, in verse three, I underlined false accusers. There's a lot of that going on. I mean, if you just think of that phrase, false accusers. It's just rampant, I think, with people pointing the finger and blaming each other and telling each other what they can and can't do and accusing people of wrong intentions. And it's just a lot of that going on. And then in the end of verse three, I've really thought a lot about despisers of those that are good. Oh, yeah. And that kind of is something that's bothered me lately. I think it's prevalent because I have two teenagers now. And I think teenagers are really good at being like, I'm not going to be a goody goody. Because that's so stupid to be a goody, you know, and so they kind of talk about like, I'm not going to be a trihard. You know, and that's a phrase that I hear a lot and really, and it's like, well, it's okay to be a trihard. Because you're trying your hardest to do your best, you know, but it's something now that is like, well, it's stupid to be a trihard. And it's stupid to do good thing. So I'm going to kind of give a half effort. And I'm going to try and be good some of the time because I know it's good to be good. I don't know, it's just this mentality that I've heard about. Have you guys heard about that before? No, I'm writing it down or heard that feeling from or that vibe from anybody or from you?

Stacey 51:57

Yeah, I think in my illumines calling, we were talking about the new children and youth program, you know, that we're going through, and I'm learning as I'm doing this, too, but none of them had ever set goals, or had like, knew about the four areas that the few that I was talking to at the moment. But it kind of felt like why would we want to do that it was kind of like, that's silly. You know, why would we want to set goals that would just in the word you use be a trihard, which makes total sense. It's, oh, it's a great vocabulary word for that. But I think that that is an interesting way the kids are looking at things these days is like a trihard. That's just too much effort and looks weird. So

Tammy Uzelac Hall 52:42

that was a good one. I wrote that down. But you come up with Stacey

Stacey 52:46

Yeah, I also the areas that I loved. Here is have a verse five says having a form of godliness, but denying the power there of from such turn away. And so that one really hit home to me, because I think so many times we see the small miracles, or we see how God's hand is in our lives. But we push it away, we deny the power or where it came from, because it's just coincidence, or it just happened to work out that way. You know, what I think, really, there's more involvement than we really realize. And that power is always there. And we have to not deny that because that's when it starts to become that selfish man that comes out and has all the other pieces of the scriptures here. Yeah, beautifully

Tammy Uzelac Hall 53:36

discussed. Thank you, ladies. For me, I want to go to verse three. Without natural affection, we just have to mark that because here's the definition of that careless, and regardless of the welfare of those connected to them by the ties of blood, that's what it means is not having a love or a connection with your children, towards your parents towards anybody in your life. I love another way that a scholar wrote this, he says, Without natural affection to parents or children or wife, parents thrusting their children into religious houses cloisters against their wills, children leaving their parents without their knowledge of consent. I mean, it just goes on to all these things without just having a natural relationship or a place of love and understanding. That's what I think is so beautiful, because we might misinterpret that and it's important to understand without natural affection is talking about family members, and and just not naturally loving them. In fact, I have a friend while we all my friend Holly, my friend Holly's daughter, it came out as gay recently, and I was speaking at BYU Education Week, and I asked Holly to come up and kind of share her story about her daughter. And when it was over, someone came up to her and thanked Holly for her comments talking about her daughter, and then hugged her and then said to her, just just whatever you do love her. And it was funny because Holly was like, Well, why wouldn't I I like that just of course, I would love her. And I think back to this thing like she does not she has a natural affection for her beautiful child. Of course she's going to love her daughter. That's natural affection. Just loving your child loving your family members. Love, love, love, love. That's what that is a sigh That one stood out to me for

Sharmaine Howell 55:18

sure. Yeah, instead of like putting them away, right?

Tammy Uzelac Hall 55:22

Yeah, and shunning them because of their choices. Okay, so now I want to go into this really quick because it says this part of the inverse six, four of this sort are they which creep into houses. And that's that really struck me if I had a question for you. I want to know is, how do these perils like the ones we describe? How do they creep into your houses? In fact, it even says creep into your houses and lead captive? I don't like this happen silly women laden with last, let's be very clear. It's not just silly women. Thanks, Paul. But how do how do these creep into your houses and lead us away captive? Because creep implies subtle to me? Oh, yeah.

Sharmaine Howell 56:03

The pacifier the slowly pacify and lol away, those are the same words in my mind. And it makes me think of Juliet gave a talk about women need to be the lioness at that at the door of your home. And it's just like, you have to be so fierce in, in what you let into your home. Right, you have to guard it so strongly, but I think it just comes in, you know, in so many ways that comes in, through through screens, through social media, through the way we talk to each other at home. You know, just by having bad feelings, and not, I don't know, like not not being grounded as a as a mom. And as a parent, sometimes it's, it's, I can let it creep in, by by my step by what I let be our priorities as a family. You know, and so I feel like a lot lately, I've been, you know, you've you've heard of that analogy, like every day of ours is a glass jar, it's going to be filling with sand all day. And if you don't get the big rocks in first, they won't fit at the end of the day, and the big rocks are our priorities. And so I just lately, I've just felt like every day my jar is full of sand, it's just full of all the things that just really don't matter. Yeah, and you know, I'm missing those rocks. And at the end of the day, I'm like, oh, shoot, I didn't do this, this and this, that are so important to me, and to our family and to our growth and to our, to our spirituality, and then they don't fit in, you know, and so I feel like, as a mom, I, I feel like I let it creep into our family by not having the priorities set. For what I want to do, you know, having a Come follow me, taking one on one time with my kids, and really spending good quality time with them, or reading to them or whatever it is that those priorities look like to you. And having personal scripture study. Those are the ways that I feel like, if I slowly let those just not be in my day, then all these other things naturally creep in the selfishness does the, you know, being covetous, and, you know, jealous of people or all these things. being ungrateful and, and you know, I'm thankful. I just feel like it's so natural, that you have to be consciously aware of doing good and, and doing the right and doing your priorities each day.

Stacey 58:22

Now, verse seven says, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. And I think that that's something that when we start to put up these walls, and we forget to put in those big, those big rocks, I think that we stop learning, and we stopped forward. And that's when like you were saying shar, all these little things start to come in to our personal selves and to our families and our relationships. And we forget where that power has come from that we need to keep striving for.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 58:53

Oh, gosh, I liked both of you what you both had to say, especially the analogy of the jar with the big rocks, and the sand because you're right, I think so many of my days, my jar is just filled with sand. And thank you sharp for that visual, I love that violet visual and ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. And I think that's where it goes back to the foundation, the bedrock of what we're doing for the people in our lives. And I appreciate how both of you said taking one on one time to study the Scriptures first for yourself, so that you can then be that bedrock for your family so that when things do creep in, you're ready, you already you've got a solid foundation, and you got this. And you can just constantly fix and correct ideas and help bring those you love to a knowledge of the truth, period. And that's what we want. So that is great. Thank you, both of you for your thoughts and discussion on that. So here's what we're going to do then, because Paul didn't just give this and then walk away. He actually is going to give us some ideas of what we can do to keep ourselves and those we love from the spiritual dangers. We'll talk about that in the next segment.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:00:07

Alright, so let's just go into we have a scripture chain, we love a scripture chain. So we're going to do that here is Paul's counsel. He's like, look, I'm gonna give you all this stuff, but I'm not going to leave you hanging. And so here is what Paul's counsel is on what we can do to keep ourselves in those we love from spiritual dangerous. So the first place we're gonna go is Second Timothy chapter three, we're going to read verses 14 through 17. Okay, 14 through 17. And Stacey, will you please read those verses for us? And as Stacey reads, these start, and I are going to mark things in these verses that we think oh, yeah, that's good advice.

Stacey 1:00:41

But continue thou in the things which thou has learned and has been assured of, knowing of whom thou has learned them, and that from a child thou has known the holy scriptures, which are able to make the wise unto salvation through faith, which is in Jesus Christ. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:01:12

Thank you. All right, what do you guys mark, which marks are

Sharmaine Howell 1:01:15

why Lighthouse talking about scriptures, how we need to read our scriptures, and that's where we're gonna get a lot of our strength from. But I really stood out to me when I was listening just right now, in verse 14, continuing the things that thou has learned, and has been assured of, knowing of whom now has learned them. I don't know why that stood out. But I just really makes me think sometimes we get these spiritual promptings and confirmations that something is true, and something is good, and it's right. And then down the road, or like that, maybe I don't know about that anymore. You know, maybe I'm, maybe I'm doubting that a little bit. Or maybe I don't have a confirmation that this is what I'm supposed to be doing with my family or my kids. And, and then, you know, it's just saying, Don't forget what you have been assured of, and know who you learn them by. So look like this came from God, if if it's something that came from God, remember that? Remember, you felt that assurance that it was good, and that it was right? And then that fear and that doubt, it's always going to creep back in, right? But we need to remember where we, what, who has taught that to us and where we learned it and be assured that, that those things are true?

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:02:22

Yes. I wrote in my scriptures right here, it's still true. Like, because it's so true. We all have spiritual experiences where we know, for me when I was 11 years old, I absolutely knew what the Holy Ghost felt like and how it spoke to me. I still know that. And even when I've gone through a faith crisis, and there was a period in my life when I did, I had to be reminded, yeah, that's still true, though. Tammy, like, all the stuff you have believed up till the point of your faith crisis. It's still true. And that was a gentle reminder from someone I trusted to go. Oh, it is. He's like, Yeah, why would you get rid of that? You felt the Spirit, you knew it's true. And now work through the rest of the stuff that you're struggling with. So yeah, that verse, I think that's awesome. Just continuing the things that you know, are true, and then work it out. Even he goes even from a child you've known?

Sharmaine Howell 1:03:18

Yes, it's like you've known these things for so long. I also think, like, for me that stood out, because right now we're in the middle of possibly switching houses here. I mean, we're staying in the same ward in the same school. So it shouldn't be a big deal. But I, you know, we went to the temple about it, Brian, and I and felt came out and felt good and talked about it. And he was like, this is right, this is good. This is going to be great. And then all the things creep into my mind, fears and whatever and all the thoughts because I worry about everything. And every person in the world. I'm like, Oh, how's Tammy gonna feel about this? You know, like, I worry about everything, you know? Sure, sure. And like a week later, I'm just like, gushing and Brian. I'm like, This isn't right. What are we thinking? He's like, sure. We we felt it. We knew it was right. Why did you forget that feeling we had and I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess we did. Okay, yeah, you're right. Okay. You know, like, calm those fears. Those aren't from God. It's just, it's just that uncertainty that is always there. But we can remember where we learned and where we get these confirmations from.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:04:22

I'm gonna highly recommend everyone listening read the talk cast not away therefore your confidence by Elder Holland. It addresses exactly what you describe. Sure. One of the best talks he's ever written, cast not away, therefore your confidence, and we'll read that later on in Hebrews. Okay. Anything you mark stays or what stood out to you as you read?

Stacey 1:04:39

Yeah, I think as we've been chatting here, I'm sharp kind of right up at first, but known the holy scriptures in verse 15. As well as in 16. It says, All scripture is given by inspiration of God. And I think that when we come back to the baseline, the foundation And after we question different things in the Gospel question our purpose and our direction, coming back to that solid ground of the scriptures, that is there and apparently is reading all these personal notes, they're even there for us, you know, they're even there, each of us to know, and to be reminded of those important things.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:05:19

Perfect. Okay, let's do another cross reference, then in our Scripture chain. Let's turn to and right to the outside of those verses, Second Timothy, chapter two, verses 15 and 16. We're going to read those. And I know we're going backwards. Like, why didn't we start with this? Because you'll see why here we go. Sharp. Will you read these verses? And then Stacy and I are gonna mark things that stand out to you.

Sharmaine Howell 1:05:41

Yep. Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needed not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth, but shun profane and vain babblings for they will increase unto more ungodliness

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:05:57

All right, stays, what stood out to you.

Stacey 1:06:02

That 15 a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Why? Working through it and working through it here. This one, I did not underline this is new for me. So I'm excited to kind of get your thoughts on this. But it's looking to me that we have to divide what we know to be true. From the things that we know are not the babbling is the profane the vein to be able to increase that godliness that we're looking for so that we don't fall into godliness? Yeah,

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:06:40

I mean, isn't it so awesome? Okay. Remember what you know, you've already known a lot of things that are true. Are there gonna be things you have questions about? You bet? Absolutely. Questions are good. Take it to the Scriptures. And then Stacy, when you mark workman that needeth not be ashamed. So don't be ashamed if you're working through things in the gospel of Jesus Christ. But look at the footnote for the word rightly, rightly dividing, go right down there to 15 be in Greek, it means setting forth without perversion, or distortion. So work through it rightly dividing truth from error. And make sure that you are making that that when you're doing it without perversion, or distortion, don't let Satan trick you into thinking things like you do the work that word workman that implies it was going to require effort and work. Stacy, you are such a good example of that to me. Like when you have questions, you work for your answers. Like would you be willing to share a personal experience where you've done that?

Stacey 1:07:40

Sure, which one?

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:07:42

I know right.

Stacey 1:07:45

I think as I've been thinking about this, a couple different things come up to mind. And I attended BYU Education Week with Tammy a few months ago. And I was able to take a couple of different classes that were intriguing to me. But one in particular, was kind of the things that we don't talk a lot about if the church talked about multiple wives and the church history background on that. And I think the one thing that I learned from there that is so important for us to do when we are trying to divide truth from our questionings and our babblings. But as to go to the good sources. And I think that quotes in here too, is to find what is true and stick to that before you can move forward with that as well. The other thing, and this is probably why you talked about this, Tammy, but Tammy I had invited me over because I just could not figure out what role women played in the priesthood. It was really bothering me, I was trying to figure out what part we played versus what part the men played and how that came together, that we could both have the precedent I know it. I know at my very core that women have the preset, and I know that we use that on a daily basis. But it was sorting through all of those different pieces that I was trying to figure out. So Tammy, and I chatted about it. And I work through going to different classes, reading in the Scriptures trying to figure out what that core belief system is and what the Scriptures say and what the gospel is versus what I hear or what people say, or what sometimes creeps into my own babblings. But I think that it was a lot of work. And I think that it is a hard process to come to an assurance and then a belief. And sometimes this is sometimes what happens is you work through those babblings. And you get to the end and you feel so good about what you've figured out. And there's still questions and there's still things that are lingering in your mind. Because you don't know we don't know everything. But again, that is the beauty of the gospel and the beauty of our Heavenly Father and our Savior is we're not done yet. We get that opportunity to keep learning and to keep figuring that out as we move forward. So

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:09:59

that is Oh great.

Sharmaine Howell 1:10:00

I love that it makes me think of it in chapter three verse seven ever learning and hopefully able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Right? Because we can.

Stacey 1:10:10

Most of the time I feel like that knowledge of the truth is so simple. And I think sometimes we overcomplicated, we overcomplicate the babblings and the things of the world that have crept into that knowledge, but most of the time, it comes back to the simplicity of the gospel and the simplicity of Jesus Christ. Yeah.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:10:32

Okay. And let's add our last scripture in the Scripture chain to the outside of verses 15 and 16. Put Titus chapter two verses one through eight. Titus who's Titus?

Sharmaine Howell 1:10:44

Alright love Titus four you love right us? Yes,

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:10:47

it is. Like I didn't even read Titus. Okay, here we go. Really quickly, I'm just gonna give you a background on who Titus is. And then we'll read what he had to say about this. So Titus was converted by Paul, perhaps at Antioch. And then he probably was with Paul on his third missionary journey. Now, at the conclusion of Paul's imprisonment in Rome, Titus joined him at Ephesus, and they went together to Creek, where Titus remained, and where he received a letter from Paul with the instructions about his work, because Tradition holds that Titus was the very first bishop in Crete. So he's getting Bishop instruction on what he needs the saints to know. And here's what Paul has to say, chapter two verses one through eight. I'm going to read these verses now. And I want you to to mark anything that stands out to you about how the saints should behave, and how we can keep from these things creeping into our homes. Here we go. But speaks out the things which become sound doctrine, that the age men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith in charity in patients, that the aged women likewise, that they be in behavior as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given too much wine. Teachers have good things that they made, teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemy. Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded, in all things, showing myself a pattern of good works in doctrine, showing uncorrupt pneus gravity and sincerity, sound speech that cannot be condemned, that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed having no evil thing to say of you. Okay, that was a lot. But what stood out to you what was Paul's advice to Titus when it came to not letting things creep in? And how to teach the saints?

Sharmaine Howell 1:12:43

Well, lot about being sober.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:12:45

So yes, let's define the word sober. Let's talk about

Sharmaine Howell 1:12:48

that. I was going to ask you because I'm sure not talking about alcohol. So we're not

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:12:52

so every time you see the word sober. It's in verse two, you're gonna find it in verse four in verse six. Yeah, and reminded, okay, here's what the word sober translates as it means to not be under the influence of passions, to be in control of yourself. Boy, we live in a day and age where no one's sober. Like, yeah, road rage is a great example of not being sober. You're just giving into these passions where you're right, you're I'm right, you're wrong, debates, all of that stuff. So that's what that's what sober minded means right here, to be calm and temperate. I like the word grave and verse to that the age men what is this age men and aged women, they're specifically speaking of older men and older women. When it says to be sober, to be grave means dignified. I like that. To be dignified. Temperate means self control. Oh, but how much do I love the word sound? Yeah. And in faith, the word sound means pure or uncorrupted, pure, uncorrupted in the faith. Those are the

Stacey 1:13:58

that's the one word that stood out to me. I think it came a couple of times in their sound doctrine, sound and faith. Sound speech in verse eight. And I think that's the one word that stuck out to me is because it kind of goes just back to that foundation. You know, back to what? No, what is the truth, and not letting all those other things creep in. I did also find it interesting. In this particular one, it talks also about the aged women and men but also talks about the young women and young men. acts a little bit about what what they and we need to be doing and being chaste and, and good works and following a pattern, being obedient. And I did find it interesting, and it's kind of a hot topic, but we go back to our show you brought up in First Timothy where it talks about the women and what we should be silent and all those things that probably aren't our favorite to hear. But I did find it interesting because it did talk about the women And there, but it also talks about not to wear apparel and talks about all these things. And the thing that stood out to me despite the things is that we need to be working for our good works versus our good looks right? And I think and a similar when we get into the pieces of the world, then we lose that sound mind, we lose that sound doctrine. But we need to be focusing on becoming our good works versus the good looks. I guess.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:15:29

LeSean briefly brought that up. In fact, let's mark that verse. I thought a lot about this in verse seven in all things, showing myself a pattern of good works. So are either one of you Sowers, or have you sewn?

Sharmaine Howell 1:15:42

Yes, I've dabbled in sewing. Yep. Just dabbled. I

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:15:46

love it dabbled in sewing, I think all of us can say at one point, maybe we took a class in high school, or junior high where we sold a pillowcase or a nice pair of pajamas. But I thought of this word, showing myself a pattern of good works. Because when I was little, my mom was a big time seller, she sewed all of our clothes for us. All of our family pictures, we have matching outfits. We went to Disneyland one year, she sewed every one of us matching outfits because if we got lost, she could look for the bright pink zigzag shirt and shorts. Yes,

Sharmaine Howell 1:16:15

I think our moms are sisters. The same thing,

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:16:19

every good mom in the 70s and 80s Sew clothing for their children. And I remember going to the store with my mom, specifically to find a pattern. And you would open these big gigantic drawers with 1000s of patterns, so many patterns that you could pick from. And what struck me about this says in all things, showing myself a pattern of good works, when patterns are created, 1000s of them are made so that everybody can see them and know how to use them and follow the dots along the paper and cut perfectly and carefully. I mean, you have to follow the directions of a pattern in order for it to you got to clip the notches. So you go

Sharmaine Howell 1:16:57

in notches. I always forgot all notches and notches.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:17:03

The double notches. I mean, it's very precise. And it had me thinking, and I wanted to ask you this question, because what would a pattern of good works look like to you? Like if you were to create a pattern for 1000s of people to use with notches? What do you for sure gonna make that pattern? What are you gonna add to give me just throw out some ideas, what does a pattern of good works look like to you?

Sharmaine Howell 1:17:27

It looks like loving somebody who loves God who loves others who serves. And I think it's really that outward, that outward turn that we need, like the charity. That's what I mean, that's what my pattern would be called the pattern of charity. Because, you know, like, you can't teach, you can't teach and have anybody follow anything if it's if it's self centered, you know, and you're gonna do those great things of reading your scriptures and saying your prayers, if you're if you have charity, it's like a circle, you know. And so it would be, it would be good works for others, right? A pattern of good works for other people, like you're doing the work not for yourself, you know, you do have to do the work to get your own testimony, you do have to do that you'd have to do the work to get your own personal foundation. But I think that when you have that, you know when you love God, and when you then you know him more, and when you know Him more you serve other people more. That's, that's the pattern for me.

Stacey 1:18:27

I'd pick that pattern sharp any day. Yeah, I am not a great sower When it comes to most things. But I have tried to dabble in the quilt world a little bit. And, and I am not a pattern follower. I fake it until I make it. And that's about as far as I go. Same with recipes, I don't follow the recipe I put stuff in happens to be around and I and you know, honestly, most of the time, it doesn't turn out quite perfect. Most of the time. I'm like, I probably should have followed that pattern, or I probably shouldn't have added that in there. And I think that that's what I'm learning from this is patterns are pretty important. And that consistency that we have to have when we are making a quilt or making a shirt or making a some food, but especially in the patterns of good works and the patterns that we continually have every day.

Sharmaine Howell 1:19:22

I think it I think it comes back to like it's just kind of got clear while you're talking to Stacy. You know, Jesus Christ came to earth to show us the pattern to show us this is how you're supposed to do it. Right. He made the he made the OG pattern and we're supposed to use that one.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:19:38

The pattern maker.

Sharmaine Howell 1:19:40

He's not not a pattern that chars made, right. It's the pattern that he's made. And I I think he's he's made the the way that we're supposed to follow and I just love that. Oh, I

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:19:52

think that's fantastic. Both of you. Thank you for those comments. And for the way that we just kind of took that advice and when you look To over the advice that Paul's giving Titus, because Titus is supposed to give this to the members of the church that he is now a bishop over. Pretty good advice. I think we all can fall within that pattern right there of what a saint should look like. And going back to this whole scripture chain that we started, how do we keep from all of those things creeping in, we just have to follow the pattern that Christ sent. And it's everything we discussed. So thank you to both of you what a great discussion. Okay, so in the next segment, then our last segment, we're going to look at one more letter. And you know what, at first read you many, many people wonder, like, why is it even included in the Bible? And so today, we are going to ask that question and hopefully answer it. And we'll do that next.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:20:52

All right, here we are the book of Philmont. And I've heard some people pronounce it fine Limon. So I'm going to just say filament for these purposes. Now, what is going on in the book of film on here is what you want to know. So film on, he was a slave owner, and one of his enslaved men named oni summus, he escaped to Rome. And while he was in Rome, he met Paul, and he was converted to Christianity. Now, just so we all understand what's going on at this time, enslaved persons made up about 20 to 30%, of the Roman Empire. Now, because of this, there were very specific laws aimed at enslaved persons and their owners. One of them was that if an enslaved person ran away, the punishment was death. Another was that if an enslaved person ran away and was caught, he must be returned to the owner. So Paul is legally bound to send an SMS back to film on, so he does, but he sends uneasiness with a letter. And that is the book of film on the letter that Paul wrote, and we're going to study it today. So let's jump into the book of filament. And we're going to start with chapter one, verse 16, Shar, will you read that for us?

Sharmaine Howell 1:22:01

Not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother, beloved, specially to me, but how much more into the both in the flesh and in the Lord?

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:22:10

Okay, sum that up for me. How is he supposed to receive him?

Sharmaine Howell 1:22:14

As a beloved brother? He's saying, I know he has to be your servant, or your slave. But he is so much more than that. So please receive Him

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:22:25

as that. Yeah. And whatever punishment is set forth, don't do it. Because he's yours in the flesh. And, and in the Lord. All of us. He's joined the Church. We love this person. Yeah. So why would this letter even be included? It's about a slave owner and his enslaved servant. So how is this Christianity? But then I read this quote by Martin Luther. So Martin Luther is the German theologian who initiated the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. So Martin Luther is known to have said, quote, We are all Gods on a samosas. Now that struck me, like every one of us can relate more to on a samosa than we can fill them on. So here's what I asked my guests to do. I asked them to read verses 10 through 18. And imagine that Paul is Christ. And these are the saviors words towards us. Did this change the message found in the Book of filament? Yeah. Talk to me about

Sharmaine Howell 1:23:26

that. I really liked reading it that way. Because we all are down here on Earth, making mistakes, you know, like he ran away from his, his hometown, he was a slave, he was felt like the bottom of the bottom. And we're here on Earth, and we're probably trying our best and, you know, we learned the gospel, and we want to return back home, but we can't do it on our own. You know, and I just love that inverse Phil film on one, verse 17, it said, If thou count me, therefore a partner receive Him as myself. So thinking about Christ saying this about us. Yeah. He's so he's saying, count me, therefore a partner and receive Him as myself. Christ is going to be our advocate. He's gonna be standing with us when we're ready to return back home. And in verse 18, if he had wronged the or OT OT, put that on mine account. That's what the Savior says. That's what he does, right? It's like,

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:24:25

I'll pay for it. Yeah, they're his debts,

Sharmaine Howell 1:24:27

I'll cover him. Right? And he's your he's going to be no longer a servant. He's going to be a beloved brother. He's going to be a part of this family. And we're going to accept him as such. And, and that is all that I can hope for, for when I return home. Is that the Savior saying, I know I know. She's maybe done some wrong things. And she might owe a little bit, but I sure hope that you put that on my account, because I'll cover for her. That's the attempt those verses

Stacey 1:24:56

Yeah, you bet atonement and it goes back up to verse 14. also where it says that the benefit should not be, as it were, of necessity, but willingly. And I think that I think of the Savior saying that, and that he did all that he did for us willingly. It wasn't like he, you know, was told to do it, and he just had to get it done. It was He willingly took that upon Him so that when we do come back, that all the wrongs that we have done, have been put on his account, and we have gained that eternal life because of him. Mm hmm.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:25:34

I was struck by verse 15. Going back to what you said, Charlotte, he's our advocate. So I'm imagining, here we are at the pleasing bar of God, we get to have a meeting with him, the Savior standing next to him, and the Savior would say, for perhaps he or she throws me for perhaps she therefore departed for a season that thou shouldest receive her forever. Like, he probably she did, she departed for a season a couple of times, she didn't make some very good choices, but please receive her forever. And that word forever, I had to look this up, because I know it forever means we know, for forever, right. But I liked this definition of her forever, for all future time, continually. Like it, it continues on, it's not a one time thing, like forever. I felt like in the next in the millennium, in the next life, like we're gonna keep working on this idea of him, accepting us forever. And we're gonna work through all the stuff that we owe, and we have a chance to do that. And that's what's so beautiful about this idea of forever. It's we're constantly being accepted for ever repenting, having stuff paid for for us. That gives me hope.

Stacey 1:26:50

One other thing that I noticed that I, I appreciate the first one that Charlotte did say, If thou can't be their foreign partner, receive Him as myself. And I think for us today, we can also take on the name of Christ, and be that advocate for Christ today. And I think sometimes sometimes that's tricky. And but we can willingly be that example of Christ and teaching of him today to it's like the missionaries, you take that name on you when you go and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:27:25

And every Sunday when we take the sacrament, we take his name upon us and are willing to do that for him. Oh, that's so good. Wow. Thank you. That's our discussion. We're done. Okay, so just take a minute. Gather your thoughts, and what is your takeaway from today? What's something that you learned from these books that we just think we're just gonna skip over? Those are really. And just when you have your takeaway, just a quick little two sentence thing, share it.

Stacey 1:27:53

I think there is beauty in all things. And even though they seem small and short, personal stories, personal stories, for personal letters for someone else, we can always gain knowledge. And the scriptures always has nuggets. The harder you look, the more you'll find.

Sharmaine Howell 1:28:13

I think I really loved the I loved all of the conversation, but I really loved the part about we don't have the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and a sound mind. And I loved all of our thoughts about that in the conversation. And we're gonna go read that cast not away therefore your confidence. Because you know, fear is very real thing in all of our lives, and we can have that faith over fear because of the Savior. I loved all that.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:28:39

Yeah, me too. For me, it was when Stacy when you pointed out the word workmen in that verse. I'd never noticed that before. And I realized, yeah, it is work. It's really hard work. When you read workmen and scriptures. This isn't like a side gig, where you're just trying to earn a little extra money. A workman is a workman and you're waking up at the you know, when the sun comes up, and you don't go back to the sun goes down and you are working. And it just made me think Have I ever worked on anything scripturally like that, from sunup to sundown sweating my brow. So that I liked that how you really pointed out that word. So thank you. And then shark loved it when you talked about the pattern of good works. And that it was about serving God and knowing others, especially shark or Stacy, when you were like I fake it till I make it I think a lot of us are and that's okay. When you're using this pattern of good works. Fake it till you make it because you will make it that's the reality. You

Sharmaine Howell 1:29:34

notches will line up in the end. It's so true. And that makes sense. Like why is there a notch here? I don't know. I'm just notching it. It's true. Oh

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:29:47

my gosh, I love that. Oh, you're awesome. Thank you ladies. You're both are great. Thanks, Tammy.

Sharmaine Howell 1:29:52

Yes, fun was super fun podcast. You

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:29:55

both are beautiful. And I knew this would be a good episode. So thank you.

Stacey 1:29:59

Thank you. I've diving deep in the Scriptures. And it's been a while. So I appreciate the invitation.

Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:30:04

Okay, well, we want to know what you guys are learning. So if you haven't joined our discussion group on Facebook or Instagram, go do it. It's a great place to share what you're learning. You can ask questions on Facebook and we try to answer them throughout the week, or just share an idea or a thought that you're having about what we've just discussed. Then on Saturday, at the end of the week, we do a post which asks a question from this discussion and we'd love to know your thoughts and your answers about that question. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at LDS on Monday and go there anyway because it's we're gonna have a link to all the references and the transcript of this whole discussion, and then a glue and so go check it out. The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS Living it's written and hosted by me Tammy Uzelac. Hall and today our awesome study group participants were Charmaine Howell and Stacy Shaw. And you can find more information about my friends at LDS on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger me it is edited by Cole Wissinger and recorded and mixed by mix at six studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember, you are God's favorite.

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