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Tammy Uzelac Hall 0:00
A few months ago, I attended an adult Institute class. And I noticed that pretty much everyone there had a journal Open and they were taking so many notes and I loved it. Everyone was waiting for that moment when something resonated with them a truth that hit them hard enough that they wanted to remember exactly what was said. Well, I'll be honest, because that is how I'm feeling about today's episode. Hebrews chapter seven through 13 and my guest today have me wishing that I could just be a listener taking so many notes. You guys this episode is packed, so make sure you're prepared. Paul is on fire with these last chapters and I think many of us words will hit you hard enough to make you want to take notes. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS Living where we take the Come follow me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, we want to make sure you know how to use this podcast so please follow the link in our description. It's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your comm follow me study just like my friend Janelle Curtis that I met at Women's Conference. Hello, Janelle. And thank you for listening. Now, my other favorite thing about the study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends. And so it's always a little bit different. And today, oh boy, how excited I am a little bit nervous. I'm not gonna lie, because I have two seasoned seminary Institute teachers that we've known each other for years. We have Tiffany Evans Brown, and Andrea Erickson. Lindsey. Hello, ladies.
Tiffanie Evans Browne 1:32
Andrea Lindsey 1:33
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:34
Okay. Okay, how do you know each other,
Andrea Lindsey 1:37
we actually go back to the mission. We we served our missions together in New York, Utica, which has now been completely dissolved. It no longer exists, but it does in our hearts. So we started there. And we kind of crossed paths in college a little bit. But she and I also got to teach seminary and Institute kind of bumped into each other that way as well. Now she lives the closer to me and we had fun lunch groups during the pandemic. So that's that's me and Tim. Oh,
Tammy Uzelac Hall 2:14
how fun. Where did you each teach seminary and Institute?
Andrea Lindsey 2:18
Um, I started out in Rexburg, Idaho, I got moved to American Fork. I was caveman. And then I was at. I was in Timpview. And, and then I was ended as a bulldog. So I was at Provo.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 2:37
Oh, that's fun.
Tiffanie Evans Browne 2:38
And tell me I think you and I talked about the same time too. And I started in the west area which of Salt Lake City. So I was at Hunter High School and Taylorsville High School and West Jordan High School and I was on the east side. Yeah. So we're rivals.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 2:56
But here's something fun about these two is they also have a podcast. So tell us a little bit about your what's the name of your podcast? How can people find it? What do you talk about?
Tiffanie Evans Browne 3:05
Andrea and I started together and I've had other things come up and Andrea has taken over but it is just about coming to Christ and that Christ is the answer to all things.
Andrea Lindsey 3:20
So the podcast is called Gather In Christ and we go over the prophetic in the quotations of President Nelson and we use basic doctrines and our own experiences. I invite I invite guests on and sometimes just winging it, you know what, whatever the topic is, like this week I'm recording on how Jesus is the answer for all of our problems. So we keep it really with what the prophets talking about and then how to incorporate it because in his plea to my sisters, he was very clear that we needed women with a bedrock understanding of the gospel. So it's our hope to be supporters in that effort because he did say that you need to take your place and your home or councils and so on and, and that means someone else is there presently. And we sometimes have to run up against tradition run up against faults mindsets, and, and it's hard to take your place. It isn't an easy thing that he's requested. And so we want to provide the proper support for those that are doing it and say, Hey, you're not the only one. We may be in a different state but we love you and we're with you.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 4:47
Wow. Okay, so it's called Gather in Christ and you can find that on Apple podcasts any podcast platform, Spotify,
Andrea Lindsey 4:54
and, and the castbox
Tiffanie Evans Browne 4:57
Yeah, Apple, Apple and Spotify. are the biggest.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 5:01
Yeah, awesome. And Andrea, you have a book coming out, tell us the title of that.
Andrea Lindsey 5:06
Um, it's called God's Plan, really original. And it's a part of a true doctrine series. So I take the nine basic doctrines and I break them down for kids. ages eight to 12.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 5:20
Oh, neat. I think that's fantastic. Oh, gosh. Okay, so you guys listening, you can tell how excited I am about I wish I just want to sit and write notes from YouTube. That's all I want to do. I want to journal and just teach me. Okay, well, as I'm sure many of you are wondering, then you want to know more about my guests. So if you want to read their bios and see their pictures, go to our show notes, which are found at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday and go check that out and check out everything they're doing because I can guarantee it will be worth your time. So grab your scriptures, your scripture journals and something to write your Scriptures with. And let's dig into Hebrews chapter seven through 13. Okay, ladies real quick, give me a little golden nugget, what stood out to you from your reading in Hebrews seven through 13. We have been saying that if Paul saw Christianity today, we'd be getting a letter. This is one of the last letters you were going to study that he wrote. So give me something that stood out to you?
Tiffanie Evans Browne 6:15
Well, I think sometimes when we study the Scriptures, we focus on the trees, like individual verses. And I feel like these chapters were the forest a ton, but in the same sentence of saying that, I also feel like they had nuggets of, you know, Elder Maxwell, like his sermons in a sentence. I mean, Paul has lots of sermons in the sentence. Oh, I like that in these chapters. But I feel like the forest of these chapters is what hit me the hardest. And King Benjamin, I think said it best. And I feel like our Prophet is saying the exact same thing today. He said, And finally, I cannot tell you all the things whereby ye may commit sin, for there are diverse ways and means and even so many that I cannot number them. Where did you read that? What's that? It's mosaic for 29. Thank you. And like, I feel like our Prophet saying the same thing. Like with the new strikes for youth, come follow me. We're not doing young women medallions anymore. Like, we cannot post all of these chapters, I think he's saying, the only way you're going to be saved is through Jesus Christ, and you have got to come to Jesus Christ. And I think that that's what he focus on in these chapters is the way to come to Jesus Christ. And I feel like our Prophet is saying the exact same thing. Like I cannot tell you how you can commit sin. There are so many ways, but I can tell you how to overcome sin and how to get through these hard times is Jesus Christ.
Segment 4 8:01
Thank you, Tiffany, as you were saying that I felt that in my heart, like, that was truth. That is what Hebrews is about. It's, it's it. And that's what the whole gospel of Jesus Christ is about it. That's why we call it the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's how to come to Him. And that's our responsibility to figure that out. So awesome. Thank you. What about you, Andrea?
Andrea Lindsey 8:22
I Amen. Tiffany. I think that was really awesome. And I am a doctrine person like I am. I love historical context, if it will help me to understand the doctrine better. And if it doesn't, I don't really, I'm not really interested, unless it helps me understand doctrine. And part of the reason for that mentality that I have is elder Scott. And he explained this in 1993. Just when I graduated, by the way, high school principals are concentrated truth package for application to a wide variety of circumstances, a true principle makes decisions clear, even under the most confusing and compelling circumstances, which I think is what our world is. And then it says it is worth great effort to organize truth, we gather two simple statements of principles. So it's like a mending, but what Tiffany's already talked about, okay. And then, in Hebrews 810, really summed up the heart of the message for me, and the principle that I wanted to get out of this, which it and it's the second half of the verse, it says, I will put my law into their mind and write them in their hearts, and I will be to them a god, and they shall be to Me, a people. I think it summarizes like our process of coming to Christ is covenant making. and it's got to be in our hearts, it's got to be in our minds, it's got to be a part of our character. And why we make decisions, it's got to be the force behind what we're doing. And that way he can be our God, he can be the one that leads us. And he can be the one that helps us through trying times. But we have to be the ones that will be like, I'm writing it. I want it in my heart, I will let you write this on my heart, I will let you fill my mind with this. Because we've got to get rid of traditional mindsets, we've got to get rid of like, generations of problems. And really, Jesus is the only way to do that. Like that. That's, that's a hard. That's a hard thing to do, especially in the culture and the climate of, you know, we live in a time where people want to be comfortable. People want no opinion that disagrees with theirs. And they want. They want their comfy blankets, their comfy shoes, and their elastic waist pants. And I have all of those and they're very nice, but it isn't like it isn't. It isn't what this gospel is about. This Gospel is about change. So,
Tammy Uzelac Hall 11:14
Andrea, thank you. In fact, in my scripture is next verse 10. I wrote what you said, I want it in my heart, that desire, like I've never considered that before I do the actions, but is it in my heart. So thank you for pointing that out. Both of you. Awesome job. Okay, so for those of you listening, you can see I hope you've written down as much as I have. And that is just asking them what stood out to them. So in the next segment, we are going to then dive in to more of what Paul had to say to every single one of us. And I think you're going to love this next discussion. In light of Jewish holidays. We'll do that next.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 11:57
Back on Friday, September 15, that is when the Jewish New Year began. It's called Rosh Hashanah. And this is kind of cool because it begins by the blowing of a ram's horn or a shofar, which is so awesome. Now, after that happens 10 days later, the entire celebration ends with what's called Yom Kippur, which is the Day of Atonement. It's the holiest day of the year for the Jews. Now, this celebration is the one day in the year when the high priest he enters the Holy of Holies. In the tabernacle, he burns incense, he sprinkle sacrificial animal blood to atone for the sins of those and the people of Israel, this is such a big deal. And then after that Yom Kippur, more than five days to build huts, and then that's when they celebrate Sukkot and all of their family members. And everybody hangs out in these tents, to celebrate what has just happened like it's, I would, I would love to have that kind of celebration. It's so beautiful. So in ancient Israel, we have this role called the high priest, and it's super important. In fact, last week, we talked about the Savior's title, one of them is a high priest. And this week is the one where I said, Hold that thought, because we're going to talk a lot about him being the high priest, which we'll talk about in the next segment. But my friend Tiffany is going to teach us about the significance of Roe Hoshana and the high priests and the veil. So let's do this. Turn to Hebrews chapter nine. First and foremost, here's what you want to do. Turn to Hebrews chapter nine, bracket off verses one through 10 in any color you want. And then to the outside of verses one through 10, label it ancient tabernacle, then do a little equal sign and write Christ. That's what I put the outside ancient tabernacle equals Christ. And Tiffany is going to teach us about this. And I'm so excited. I've got my journal here, I'm ready to take notes. I'm going to write in my scripture. So TIFF. You texted me some really awesome things and some ideas about this. I just could not be more thrilled that you're going to teach us about this. So hit it.
Tiffanie Evans Browne 13:58
Okay. Well, first of all, I feel like, there's so much we could spend an hour or two hours on this topic and these things. So I think, be ready to dive in if you want to look for more. But the ancient tabernacle was a tent, we understand that right? And it was divided by veils. And in Hebrews nine, it is explaining the things that were in the temple and kind of what they did with them. So there was the outer courtyard and the inner courtyard, and then there was the holy place, and then the Holy of Holies. So in verse two, it talks about the first section. So when it says, Hebrews nine, verse two, it says, four, there was a tabernacle made. The first were in was, so the first section. So you walk into the tabernacle, and you're in the first section, and there was a candlestick, and the table and the shewbread, which was called the sanctuary, and then it said, As and then after the second vowel, so then there's another Vale and it's called the Holy of Holies. So that's verse two and three. And Tammy talked about, like the Holy of Holies, the high priest was the only one who could go in the Holy of Holies. And he only went once a year on camera, you're gonna have to say, I can't say that. Yom Kippur war. So once a year or the, the Day of Atonement.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 15:28
Well, and here's the, I'll define the word really quick. Yom means day. And Kapoor is the version it's the translation of the Hebrew word for atonement, which is kuffaar. So Yom Kippur is Day of Atonement, and then Roesch means head or beginning. And then Ha, Shauna is the year, so heter, beginning of the year, so that's the breakdown of those Hebrew words.
Tiffanie Evans Browne 15:51
Okay. And when they celebrate those, they celebrate those three holidays all together, right? You guys can and and, and there's lots of stuff going on. But my fit anyway, I love it so much. But tell me why you love it so much. Well, in right when Angel Marone. I came in September 22. So Rosh Hashanah, and all of these, the day of the Atonement were always celebrated in September. So the ancient Indian, Israel's would celebrate this holiday. And it was too they would sound the the ram's horn, looking for revelation and a new atonement. So this was to welcome Christ's second coming, like this is the holiday to welcome in the gathering of the harvest. So every year, they would gather the harvest the wheat, and then they would burn the field. So if you can think of that scripture, where it talks about the gathering, the gathering, and then they burn the field. So we, the Israelites would celebrate looking for a time when the angel would come to give revelation and a new atonement. And to the New Year, the new the last gathering of Israel, basically. So it's the gathering of the harvest of the souls. And then so the burning of the Earth that we talk about is to cleanse for a new harvest, like they would burn their earth so that the harvest would be new in the next season. So that's why I love it like it is just so symbolic. And Morona came September 22, and it was Russia Shauna that year. And I don't think that's by accident at all, like this is a significant moment. And actually, another thing that I love about this is that my daughter's birthday is on September 22. And, and I just love that and then another so then my other daughter's birthday is May 13th, which the ironic priesthood was restored on. Well, that's cool. I know, right? Like I'm like, oh, so I just love that both of those have such significance in my life. But there's a couple of things that I also want to point out really quick, in verse five. It says, an over the Chera bums of glory shadowing the mercy seat, of which we cannot know speak particularly. So in the Holy of Holies is the chair of them and the mercy seat, so the chair of them shadowed the mercy seat. And one of my favorite things is in Moses 431, when Adam and Eve have partaken of the fruit, and they get cast out, and the Lord puts Chair of them and a flaming sword to protect the tree of life. So to me that is reference of that, that he has chair booms of the glory shadowing the mercy seat, there are angels that protect the tree of life, and we learn in Nephi that the Tree of Life is the atonement, right? It is the blood of Christ, it is the Mercy Seat of Jesus Christ. And so when I think of okay, who are the chair bums that guard that right, who are the chairs, who are those angels that guard the atonement, and I think of our bishops and stake presidents, when we have to go to them to get a temple recommend, we go to them for forgiveness. They guard the tree of life and the Savior is Isaiah has this vision of all of Christ's covenant people, right? And it's an angel it talks about, okay, so it says, second Nephi 16 Verse two, Above it stood the sarafan. So here's an angel. Each one had six wings with 20 He covered his face and with twain he covered his feet and Okay, so then he talks about verse five, he says, whoa, to be I am, I'm done, because I am a man of unclean lips. And then in verse six, it says, then flew one of the Sarafem, and to me having a live coal. So this goes back to Hebrews, where it's the burning of the incense and the burning of the animals, there's coals to burn these things. So they are taking a coal from the altar, to burn and cleanse right to clean. So now, you will never look at the Deacons in your word, the same. They are the angels that carry the coals to Ark to cleanse our lips, and to make us clean. And and I'd say like, I just look at them. And I'm like, Oh, those cute angels. And sometimes we're bothered by the 12 year old. But they are the angels that are carrying the coal to each one of us. But once I was talking to a friend, and she's like, but we're also charged to be those angels. And I never thought of that. But we are we have to guard the tree, we have to guard the doctrine, like Andrea was talking about, like, that's part. And elder Holland said, it's so great. What he talked about correcting with compassion.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 21:24
Oh, it's his 2012 talk that he gave to seminary and Institute teachers called Conviction with Compassion. It was so good. I'm glad you brought that up.
Tiffanie Evans Browne 21:34
So but anyway, let me read you so then, right? This is super cool, too. So Zacharias was a priest. And he was he wasn't the high priest, but he was a priest, and he was called to come and serve in the temple. And they would take turns because there were so many priests. And he, he and his wife came to serve in the temple. So Zacharias is like in verse two, where it says that he is in the first he's in the holy place, not the Holy of Holies. So this is probably not the Day of Atonement, because only the high priest were in the Holy of Holies. So he's only in the holy place at the table of incense. It's probably where he's praying, right? And the the priests would go in and say a prayer, and Zacharias, they cast lots and it was his turn. So he goes in, and they when they would pray, they would pray with their hands above their head, which is significant, right, but all of the other people outside are in the outer courtyard. And they're also praying but Zacharias is prayer will be answered and their hands are above their heads as they're waiting for Zacharias to come out and say that it is done. Right. So Zacharias goes in, and we know like the whole story, right? He goes in and he's praying. This is commentary about Luke when he was Zacharias. What happens to Zacharias? So it says, There could have been around 23 different orders or different priests, they would, therefore dedicate a couple of weeks a year to their service. So Zacharias was there. One responsible would have to be prepared for and preside at the Daily temple prayer. It was his turn. It's the daily prayer. Luke one nine, the prayer was performed, his lot was cast, and he was chosen. That's Luke one night. So he goes in, and he says, the prayer and the prayer was probably around 3pm in the afternoon. And at this time, the horn blasts like they always this horn is very significant. They blow the horn for prayer and revelation. Again, going back, right, like, there is significance to Moroni having a horn like that is symbolic of revelation and covenant. And all of this is super symbolic. So at around 3pm, the horn blasts, Zacharias would lift up his hands while standing in the holy place before the altar of incense. He would pour incense on the altar while praying for salvation of Israel. So he's praying for the salvation of everyone. Those on the outside of the temple gather and stretch out their hands in prayer, that the priests prayer would be granted. And that's Luke 110. So following the ordinance, Zacharias was to come out and tell the people to put their hands down and stop praying. So it's significant that Zacharias had no voice. He couldn't come out and tell them to put their hands down, because the prayer hadn't been fulfilled. Right. So he wasn't able to accomplish that. But then 30 years later, Jesus, the great high priest that Tammy talked about, had his hands outstretched at 3pm. And in that moment, the veil of the temple between the holy place and the holy of holies right, no one We could go into the Holy of Holies, except for the high priest once a year, up to this point, and at that point, it says the veil was rent. And that means it was ripped open, right. And that's Matthew 2745. And 51. Christ made it possible for us to enter the holy of holies. Everyone, not just the high priest, not once a year. But that he is. And so and I think that's significant. And we go over to Hebrews chapter 10. And this is, I think, these are some of the most important verses that you need to understand about this whole thing, that the temple provides a way for us to come into the holy, and to come into God's presence, right? It says, I would mark 16, through 20, because it says, this is the covenant that I will make with them. And and I love that because this goes back to Andrea's right in verse, or chapter eight, says, Make with them those days, they the Lord, I will put my law into their hearts, and into their minds, I will write them. So he's putting the law into our hearts and our minds. But then 19 and 20. This is such Sacred Scripture, Having therefore brother and boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus Christ, by a new living way, which he had consecrated for us through the veil, that is to say, his flesh, that we enter into the holiest place through Jesus Christ, and is the flesh of Jesus Christ.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 26:43
Thank you. Well, and here's what I liked that you taught us so many things, that Jeroboam for sure that that is powerful, never read those verses the same. And I love how you've connected it back to what Andrea has talked to us about, about having these things written on our hearts, and having them in our minds. And so we're going to connect all of this now, to this idea of the Savior being the high priest. And so what we're gonna do is we're gonna take everything you just taught us, Tiffany, which was so powerfully done. And we're going to hopefully write it on our hearts as we now connect the Savior directly to the high priest who taught us about, and we're going to get an even greater idea of how awesome this high priest is. And we'll do that in the next segment.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 27:34
Okay, everyone, going back to last week's discussion, when we discussed names and titles for the Savior, I mentioned, you're going to see high priest a lot in the book of Hebrews. And in our show notes, you can go I put all of the references. It's in Hebrews three here, or sorry, it's in Hebrews 234568 10. All throughout this book, we read about a High Priest. But how much do we love that Paul just really captures all of it in one verse. And I want you to think about everything Tiffany just taught us and let's turn to Hebrews chapter nine, verse 11, highlight this verse, put stars around this verse, put hearts around this verse, all of it. Andrea, will you read read verse 11, for us.
Andrea Lindsey 28:15
But Christ being come an high priests of good things to come by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building?
Tammy Uzelac Hall 28:28
There it is, what would we have everyone underlined in that verse?
Andrea Lindsey 28:33
High priest of good things to come
Tammy Uzelac Hall 28:35
there, it is
Tiffanie Evans Browne 28:36
the guts to be one of his servants in a sentence. I mean, you just there's so much to unpack right there. And thankfully, we have such great commentary from Elder Holland himself.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 28:48
So let's do that. It is one of his landmark talks. And we have the link in our show notes. So you're gonna want to go get it print this off, you can do it right now and study along with us. We are going to talk about this talk called a high priest of good things to come. And it is just I have referenced this countless times in the podcast, and we are going to just kind of dive into this talk and understand why he is called the high priest of good things to come. And Tiffany, I thought you did a beautiful job of explaining that to us. He is the high priest of good things to come through the Atonement, and what we can all experience and good things to come meaning life with our Heavenly Father and salvation, all of that. But let's go into this talk. And I want you guys I asked my guest to read it and come prepared to discuss so you too. Are you ready? Andrea? Where to start with you?
Andrea Lindsey 29:36
Absolutely hit it. Okay, I I have to say, you know, this talk is meant different things to me at different times in my life. It has been one I've referred back to. It has been one that has anchored me in times of difficulty. And I think, of course his Endian statements and I'm just Sorry if I'm stealing this from you guys, because you probably love this quote just as much as I do. But he says, some blessings come soon, some come late and some don't come until Heaven. But for those who embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ, they come. And I, I'm not a like, read a quote down and put it somewhere person, but this one, it was that why. And I, it came at a time where I was running out of steam. And when I was single, and waiting for that, right, someone to come along, and I had plenty of wrong someone's at that point. And it was, it was something to like, gear up for the next heartbreak. And yet, I felt that this was the anchor, I mean, all I had to do was anchor myself to Christ and not focus on the blessing I didn't have, but focus on the blessing I did. And that he would bring everything into my life that I need it. And I really feel like for me, that was when it first became like a part of my life. But now, it's a little different, because I have that special someone, and I have a family to take care of. And yet he still needs to be my anchor. Because now instead of just having my problems, I have my husband's problems, my husband's family's problems, my my family, extended families problems and my kids problems, and then it gets happy. And that responsibility to lead them to Christ, I think is huge. And he says this, even though even if you cannot see that silver lining on your clouds, God can or he is the very source of light you seek. He does love you and He knows your fears. He hears your prayers. He is your heavenly Father. And surely he matches with his own the tears his children shed. There's there is simplicity in that message. And there is power. Because even though my circumstances have changed, the answer hasn't. And he's still the answer. He's still a high priest of good things to come. And he still is the one who won't just cry with us. The white boy the tears.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 32:44
Andrea, can I ask you?
Andrea Lindsey 32:46
Tammy Uzelac Hall 32:46
I'm so thankful you shared that verse. I just want I'm curious to know, when have you felt like the Savior cried with you?
Andrea Lindsey 33:00
Every day, but to be specific, I think knowing what I know now, this moment in the temple for me was sorry, it was significant. And, again, an anchor because the answer doesn't change. It just deepens the richens. A rich, deep deepens with richness. And when I went to the temple, this one day i i was just torn up. I was heavy, I was tired. I was wondering why God wasn't listening to what I was asking. And I opened to a verse of Scripture, you know, because President Monson did it, I could do it, you know, like open to the verse of scripture, and it magically appears, the one that you need, and it's it. I was actually looking it up when you said, Hey, Andrea, you want to do this? Because I hadn't planned on sharing this, but this was the one that came. And it's in Isaiah 54. And it in the first of the, it's talking about, you know, you're being tossed, you're not comforted, and you feel forgotten. And definitely, I had felt all those things. So I was riveted. I was ready, and I was listening. And the the part that really burned into my soul, but great, you know, I've forgotten you for time but great, she'll be the peace of your children. And I'm like, it's, it's, you know, I'll do anything for that. And it's still the same. It hasn't changed. In all these years since that revelation, my heart hasn't changed. And the answer hasn't changed. But there's deepness, and richness that wasn't there before. Wow.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 35:16
Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. So going back to the talk, I and high priest have good things to come. You know, Andrea, your experience and story made me think of the one part of this talk that really struck me the most, it's in the third paragraph, I feel like this is the thesis, it's not really but for me it is, it's the, the the heart of his message, it says, To anyone who may be struggling to see that light and find that hope. I say, Hold on, keep trying. God loves you. Things will improve. Christ comes to you in his more excellent ministry with a future of better promises. He is your high priest have good things to come. And I just think I don't know that there's anybody listening that hasn't been struggling to find hope or light, but just to have an apostle of the Lord's sake, just hold on and keep trying, and God loves you. Things will improve. I can't tell you how many times I was like, Alright, I'm gonna have to trust in this like, this better be right, because what we're going through is that just didn't seem like there was any way things could possibly improve at all, and that there would be a future of better promises. So thank you for sharing that, Andrea? Because it just struck my heart. And that's what made me think of was was That's my part of the talk. I loved. Tiff, what about you in this talk?
Tiffanie Evans Browne 36:32
Well, not necessarily in this talk. Just i But this week, as I thought about both of you and experiences that I have had that sometimes, anyway, you You both are in a unique situation, and we didn't talk about it, but you both married into a family that had children. And who both lost their mother.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 36:56
I didn't know. Yeah, Andrea, you're married a widower? Yeah. Oh, I just want to hug
Tiffanie Evans Browne 37:04
you soon. Oh, we could do a whole episode.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 37:09
Just you and me. It's so hard. Okay, carry on to
Tiffanie Evans Browne 37:16
vote. And that's my point, right. And sometimes in the church, we want to make the comment of, oh, the Lord needed them more on the other side of the veil. And your cute children are missing their mother, right? And no matter how either of you hard you try, you can't replace her. And so this high priests of good things to come that they have, they have lost a great thing in their life, and nothing can fix that. But Christ suffered to make up for that because there are so many I love elder Redlands talk, where he talks about the infuriating unfairness. And this life is just unfair. It is and I every time my kids want to say to me, oh, that isn't fair. Like oh, well, welcome to life. It's unfair.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 38:08
But it's not it's so not fair.
Tiffanie Evans Browne 38:13
That's to me, that's what this whole talk is about that Jesus Christ came for those unfairness for those children missing it, he, he can fill in the things that no one else can fill in for them, and make up a difference that they're lacking in their lives because of that unfairness. So I anyway, you both have been on my mind this week about that, like that is so hard, and that there are life is going to be hard. And I think that that's so that goes to my the paragraph I like is it's going to be hard it starts No, it's not without record, recognition of life's tempests, but fully and direct so he's talking about peter out on the water in the boat, right? Yeah. And the tempests and an A. So that's where we're at. And it says no, it is not without recognition of life's tempests, but fully and directly because of them, that I testify of God's love and the Savior's power to calm the storm. Always remember in that biblical story that he was out there on the water also, he faced the worst of it right along with the newest and youngest and most fearful only one who has fought against those ominous waves is justified in telling us as well as the sea to be still. Only one who has taken the full brunt of such adversity could ever be justified in telling us in such times to be of good cheer. Such counsel is not a junk pep talk about the power of positive thinking. The positive thinking is much needed in the world know, Christ knows better than all others, that the trial of life can be very deep, and we are not shallow people. If we struggle with them, but even as the Lord avoids sugary rhetoric, he rebukes faithlessness. And he deplores pessimism, He expects us to believe. So I just, I love that. But yeah, positive thinking is good. But sometimes we need a power outside of anything else to help us in these times, and I think it goes back to that temple work, right. Like, we're talking about the temple, I we're talking about the power that the temple brings into our life. And, oh, President, President Nelson, when he very first was the prophet, he got up and he spoke of, he announced all of the temples, right. And he said, My dear brothers and sisters, construction of these temples may not change your life, but your time in the temple, surely will. And we need Christ to be in our hearts and in our minds, and in the temple we are, we were promised blessings by our Prophet today, of spending time in the temple and having that power given to us to help us in these hard times.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 41:18
Thank you. And I have to just ask you to if because as you read this line, you got emotional when it said that the trials of life can be very deep, and we are not shallow people if we struggle with them. Have you had deep trials?
Tiffanie Evans Browne 41:33
Well, I don't. I can't stand that minor any deeper than anyone elses.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 41:39
Andrea Lindsey 41:40
But I'm telling on her.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 41:44
Yeah. It's all relative. Have you had deep trials?
Tiffanie Evans Browne 41:48
Yeah. Like I think like, so. I think one of the sins of our generation again, there's so many you can't. And I think it's society across the brand. Maybe it's just American society, I better put that out there. Our culture in America is that we want to play the victim. I am a victim. So yeah, I've had hard things. But I listened to this woman talk about as long as you play the victim, no matter if you're a victim or not. If you play the role of a victim, you stop progression. Wow. Right. And so we're all a victim at some point. And any, you look at our society, everyone wants to hold up the car, the victim card, I am a victim. Yeah. And as long as we're holding up that card, we're stopping our progression. And that's how Satan is getting tools to stop us from progressing. So yes, I've had very deep trials. And the I think for me, like, we are not shallow people. I don't know, like struggling with things that happen. And you think, Oh, why am I struggling with this again? Or why did I get offended so easily? Or why did I that? That sometimes we can say him can beat us up for not being perfect or kind or Christian or loving. But the the, we're not perfect. And he can get us to be shameful. And I like to think of the the Adam and Eve and where the looks like where are though? Well, I'm hiding, of course. Yeah, completely ashamed of my behavior. And that is one way we can't progress is if we hide in our shame instead of going to the source of redemption.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 43:41
Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, thank you to both of you. In fact, as both of you were sharing, in my mind, I imagined the ancient tabernacle. And they're all of the people with their arms up in the air praying on behalf of Zacharias, who is praying on behalf of the people, right? They can't go into the tabernacle though they can only stay outside. And I'm just picturing Jesus Christ running through the crowd into the tabernacle, breaking down the veil, and yelling, everybody calm, you all can come inside. Now, everyone can come into tabernacle, everyone can partake, you don't have to sit outside the veil anymore. And that is what makes him a good high priest of good things to come is we can all partake, and you both have exemplified that in your experiences and in the words that you shared from this talk. So thank you, thank you. Thank you. Okay, so here's what we'll do. Then in the next segment, we're going to piggyback on this incredible discussion. And we're going to talk about an important principle to trusting and believing in a high priest of good things to come. We'll do that next.
Andrea Lindsey 44:50
Tammy Uzelac Hall 44:51
let's turn to Hebrews chapter 11 verse one. This is what we're going to talk about this whole segment. Tiffany, we read Hebrews chapter 11, verse one And
Tiffanie Evans Browne 45:01
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 45:07
Okay, let's read it with the Joseph Smith translation. Okay down below, go ahead and read it now with a footnote for the word substance.
Tiffanie Evans Browne 45:14
Okay, Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 45:21
Okay, now, let's think back to all the times we would teach our lesson on faith as seminary teachers Did either of you ever give your students like a poppy seed and have them tape it in the Book of Mormon, Alma 32, and say, a mustard seed is smaller than this, like, I wanted to have some idea of how to get what faith was like, and I'll be honest, so I'm still stuck on the fact that mustard comes from a seed, but you're here nor there. I think what's so powerful is I wish I had really known about Hebrews 11. Because I would have taught him the story though, I would have taught the lesson on faith, exactly the way Hebrews 11 is written. Because if you just go through and read Hebrews chapter 11, it just gives story after story after story of people who had faith, it's the most beautiful. I don't even how to say it's the most beautiful wording I've ever read. And then I would have people I know share stories of faith or videos of people in my own family, we might that might even be a really cool thing to do is just record family members sharing stories of faith. Because that's what Paul's doing. He's going through all the people that we've ever read about in scriptures and saying, By faith by faith, in fact, I went through Hebrews 11, and highlighted every time I saw the words by faith, so verse four, By faith, Abel offered verse five By faith Enoch, verse seven, by faith, Noah, and he just goes through these awesome examples of people who had stories by faith, what they were able to do. And then we get to verse six, let's highlight verse six, because it's going to give us a little bit more about faith. And Andrew, can you read verse six for us about the importance of faith,
Andrea Lindsey 46:57
but without faith, it is impossible to please Him, for he that cometh to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 47:09
Thank you, okay, you to talk to me about faith. This idea, it's impossible to please God without faith. I mean, what is what are your thoughts on this idea of faith in our lives?
Tiffanie Evans Browne 47:20
First, first, I have to go back to Tammy your love for Allah 32. Right? We talk about faith and the Alma 32 is a great doctrine on faith. Right? And it says it this is Alma 3220. Now we will compare the word unto a seed, right? So now, not only is the deceit it's the word, right? And then if you flip over to elements, 33, verse 22, and 23. It says, if so, well shall come unto you, but if not so then cast about your eyes and begin to believe in the Son of God, and He will become to redeem His people, that he shall suffer to die the atonement of their sins, that he shall rise again from the dead, which shall bring to pass resurrection, that all men shall stand before Him to be judged at the Last Judgement day according to their works. And now my brother, and I desire that you shall plant this word, sow the seed, and the word that we plant is Jesus Christ, it is the atonement. It is an end, John one tells us right, who is Christ, Christ is the word. So to me, so that just brings a new understanding of like, Kate, right, but we have to have faith, first faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. It's not just a belief, it is a faith in Jesus Christ. It is a faith in his ability to heal us, and cleanse us and change us.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 48:56
Because now it changes everything. If you go through Hebrews chapter 11. And everywhere you highlighted by faith, you add by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Abraham was able or whatever I mean, I go to my favorite Hebrews 11, verse 31, one of two women mentioned in this entire dialogue. First 31 says, Buy faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the harlot Rahab parish, not with them that believed not. Now that is awesome, because it was rehabs faith in the Savior Jesus Christ, which is why she hung her read. Many scholars believe why she hung a red string outside of her window that was symbolic of Christ's Atonement, like she had faith in Jesus Christ that she would be saved by the spies when they came and destroy Jericho. Oh my gosh, I love that so much, Tiffany. Well,
Tiffanie Evans Browne 49:46
and I think it goes back to that they wrote the covenant in their heart, right. Yeah. And that they have let Christ I'm going to And that a covenant is a relationship with Jesus Christ. It is not a. I mean, we start talking about so much of it as like a contract, right. And sometimes I think we do a disservice. But when we enter a covenant with Christ, we enter a relationship with Jesus Christ. So that's, oh, that's good.
Andrea Lindsey 50:20
I really want to go back to Rahab for a second, because her job isn't one that we would approve of in the celestial kingdom, right? And so right, it's not really celestial living right now. But we can look at this and go, Man, if Rahab can do it, I can do it like this should give no one the excuse that I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough, or I am not enough in some way. And she was enough. You're enough, you know, no excuse. You can do this. You don't have to be perfect. In fact, perfection is only given to the Savior Jesus Christ. Like he's not like that isn't part of our fallen condition. That's not what we get to have here. It's who we rely on that matters.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 51:11
Oh, this is really good. Andrea, I'm so grateful that you said that. Because there are many of us who then think we're not enough or our faith isn't enough. Or that I should really be better in my when it comes to having faith. And I really love this quote from President Nelson, in the April 2021 General Conference. This is what he said about our faith and the faith that we have. Tiffany, we read this quote for us,
Tiffanie Evans Browne 51:34
do not minimize the faith you already have. It takes faith to join the church and remain faithful. It takes faith to follow prophets rather than pundants and popular opinion, it takes faith to serve a mission during a pandemic. It takes faith to live a chaste life when the world shouts that God's law of chastity is now out. moded It takes faith to teach the gospel to children in a secular world. It takes faith to plead for the life of a loved one, and even more faith to accept a disappointing answer.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 52:06
I mean, your thoughts Tiff?
Tiffanie Evans Browne 52:08
Well, I just as I'm reading it, like this is I think I'm just in a weird spot in my life. The faith to give up a career to raise my children, and now be on the other end, my kids are getting older, I'm feeling a little bit lost of like, I don't know where I'm needed so much. They're in school, right? Like, and, and now it's not so easy to get back into a career and, and so I feel a little bit pushed to the side. So I just having faith, to raise my children and to be at home to teach them the gospel like so sorry.
Segment 4 52:56
No, thank you for sharing that. And as you were reading that, in my mind, I was saying in Jesus Christ, it takes faith in Jesus Christ. don't minimize the faith in Jesus Christ you already have. And last week, we talked about entering into God's rest means to have a knowledge of Christ. And we talked about how important it is to don't forget to rest. Don't forget to take the time to go to the temple, to read about the Savior and learn about the Savior. And we can see right here, why that is so important. It takes faith in Jesus Christ, to live a chaste life. It takes faith in Jesus Christ to serve a mission. Oh my gosh, can we all say amen? Not just to serve our mission, but to stay
Tiffanie Evans Browne 53:38
well, and now getting to the age we are, I'm like, oh, shoot, it's gonna take a lot of faith for me to send a child on a mission. Oh, like, I know what they're in for. So anyway, that's another
Andrea Lindsey 53:51
Yeah and, and there is there are challenges, but I love how the church is now allowing a different setup for those challenges. And I think that he's he's ministering to us the way that we need to be ministered to, and it's going to be okay, like, he's a merciful God, too. And he'll set it up perfectly for the time. And swing. Yes.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 54:15
I remember I would add to that talk. I remember one time I read, it takes faith to pay your tithing first. Like that really struck me right? When I got paid, I usually pay my bills and then pay my tithing. And I remember at that time, I was like, Okay, I'm gonna just pay my tithing first and hope everything works out. That's faith. That was very daunting for me at a time when I didn't have a lot of money. But it always worked out.
Tiffanie Evans Browne 54:37
So elder Renlund has given a talk at BYU Idaho and at BYU, where he talks about the importance of the it's like, not circular, but like almost like a cone of faith, repentance, baptism and the Holy Ghost. Tell me about that. Well, and so one quote from it, he says, real repentance must involve faith and The Lord Jesus Christ, faith that he can change us, faith that He can forgive us, and faith that He will help us avoid void more mistakes. This kind of faith makes the atonement effective in our lives. So he just talks about like, that we have to go through that all of the time. Sometimes the we think that baptism was a one time thing. But really, we must have faith, repent, be baptized, and have the Holy Ghost over and over in our lives. And we do that through the sacrament, like and, and he goes on, and he's like, what's the next ordinance that you do after you go to the temple? You take the sacrament? What's the next ordinance after you get the priesthood, you take the sacrament? Because we are having faith and repentance and baptism and the Holy Ghost that it's this always is the doctrine of Jesus Christ.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 55:54
I even thought, what's the next ordinance you'd put you do after you yell at your kids? Right? Like, what's the next ordinance after you get in a fight with someone? Isn't that interesting? How you apply it to our lives? Yeah, it's your right to me. It's faith, repentance, repentance. Wow.
Andrea Lindsey 56:11
All right, I don't want to like diverge. But I want to say this. And I hope that fits in like with what you're talking about. Because for me faith and teaching faith, there has to be a correct understanding, placed before you, in order to hope for things that are not seen, you really do have to have somebody guide you through the process of getting faith. And that's part of the reason motivation, why I wrote the book that I wrote, and tried to help with children in their understanding that I want to talk to the adults, because the adults have a huge responsibility in in bringing the Gospel and faith to children. And being an example of it. And when you talked about, hey, this mustard seed thing, like, how do you teach faith. And there's really like three things that were game changing life changing things of how I approach teaching faith, and living it. And it's simple. It's really simple. And it always does turn out to be the simple things that are really powerful and really applicable. But number one, it's just, let's keep the commandments. It takes faith. And if you want to know the will of the Lord, you have to, I mean, if you have to do his will to know or sorry, you have to, yes, do his will to know the doctrine, right? Like you have to do it like that. And it takes faith to go, I'm going to live the Sabbath day, I'm going to keep it holy, I'm going to try and be unspotted from the world, but I'm going to, you know, actually ask people to do the same. You know, like, we're about commandments in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And I know that other people will join in with us on that belief, like, we're not the only Christians that believe that. And the other thing that I would say, is learning more about faith, and a game changer for me was at the lectures on faith. And yeah, it was in 1835, it was voted in as scripture and in 1921, it was taken out. And there's an excellent talk. So I wouldn't just say read lectures on free faith, I would say read lectures on faith and also look up this talk, authorship and history of the lectures on faith by Larry eidl. And that's in the BYU religious study center. And you will get some good context for why it was removed what happened and, and then he he encourages us though still. He said, I love the lectures on faith. For me, they carry a special spirit. They are a rich source of doctrinal treasures couched in clear and powerful language, one can drink as deeply from them, as he has a mind to I commend them to you. And it was a game changer for me, like learning more about like applicable faith. I was like, I can do this, like I can do this. This is eternal possibilities here. This isn't just, you know, I'm reciting what faith means this is an action and I am charged now by a prophet of God, to seek and expect miracles, that takes faith that takes living the commandments, and that takes it being the will of the Lord. But now we have it that it is the will of the Lord, that miracles need to start happening and you need to start praying for it. You need to be the kind of person that has the confidence to ask for the miracle. Call and, and he can get you there. That is what the Savior died for is to get you there to that point, we don't have to do it by ourselves. But But like, let's see can expect miracles, and then spend more time in the temple. Because if if we really truly want to get getting that in eternal, we need to point our children to the temple. And we need to be temple going people. I think for me, those have been the most game changing, life sustaining and faith building experiences I've ever had. When I went to work in the temple I had, I was horrible at memorizing still am. And I prayed and I had my family fast. I was like, There's no way I can memorize all this stuff on my own, like I just can't. But I did. And it was huge. And it was pivotal. And it put me in a place to be around souls that had refined their faith were mature in their faith, and helped me to see things more clearly. Like, if anything went wrong in the temple. This is how the temple workers, the ladies handled it, although we need some more training in the most likes, voice you know, and I was like, How can I portray that a little bit better in my life? Okay, we need some more training. Like, they were never ruffled. They were never ruffled. They were always like, look, let's do this, we can do this. It takes me, you know, but anyway, Andrea, sorry, if I segwayed. But I just like no numbers.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:01:39
Well, and everything that you've shared both of you, I really like this idea like to expect the miracle, to go to the temple, and to have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. That's, I mean, that is some of the best advice ever when it comes to increasing our faith. And so I want to do, let's, let's talk about this, because then we have faith, we have a belief and a high priest of good things to come, we can expect miracles. And in the next segment, we're going to see how all of this can then help us when we have a major decision to make. We'll talk about that next.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:02:20
Tell me about a difficult decision you've ever had to make. Ready, set go.
Andrea Lindsey 1:02:24
I've got a good one. Okay, hit. Ok. I suffered from autoimmune disease. And I was given a diagnosis and a way to improve life. And they knew how much pain I was in, they knew my situation. And at the time, I wasn't married. And they they said you need a hysterectomy or, like, it's going to get really bad for your health. And, and I, I knew Medical Council was right. I'd like I seriously knew that that was true. And yet it contradicted what was in my patriarchal blessing. And, and so I had a decision to make, I had to decide, do I accept good sound medical counsel? Or do I believe God? So would I be willing to suffer? Because I will, you know, like, I knew the outcome of that. And, and so I was like, Okay, I, I've got to believe God, I gotta believe the promises. And I've got to turn down the surgery, he was not happy with me. He knew what I was in for. And so I let him deliver my son because I really liked irony. And conclusion. And so Oh, but but I really, and I think there was never a happier doctor, he was more than happy to be wrong on that one. Like he, he just could not believe it. And that living that council led me to my husband. And the suffering brought me to a place where I would meet him and, and so it's sometimes in the pain that the greatest sources for our strength are made manifest, but we have to be willing to do it. We have to be in it to win it. You know, like we can't, we can't just like opt out when it's difficult. We have to be like, Okay, I'm only father put that in my patriarchal blessing for a reason. And here it is. I've got to believe it. And I have a Very fun. 11 year old a couple in heaven.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:05:07
Oh my gosh. Wow. That's a good one. Andrea, that is so good. Thank you. Thank you. Tiffany, do you have a story about a difficult decision you had to make?
Tiffanie Evans Browne 1:05:17
I mean, marriage right. Children? Nothing that's super...a career. Yeah. But anyway, yeah. Yeah. And knowing going into that career, right, like, we were all interviewed, and they tell you, Well, back in the day, they would tell you, as soon as you have a baby, you are done. So picking that career in general, I knew the outcome that I would be giving. And that's the hard part, I think is at that moment. I was like, Okay, great. And now coming back to it, it's like, oh, shoot, like, I didn't realize what that would mean. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. And having faith that that decision 17 years ago is still right today.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:06:14
Okay, I love how you just said that, that the decision you made 17 years ago is still right today. So every one of us who've ever had a decision to make or in the process of making a decision, you're going to want to look at Hebrews chapter 10, verses 32 through 36, highlight them again, highlight them, mark them, Star them, park them everything. And the reason why we're going back is because I wanted us to have a discussion on faith. Before we talked about these verses. Let's turn to Hebrews chapter 10. We're going to read verses 32 through 36. And each one of us will take a verse, Tiffany, Andrea, and then me. And here's what Paul has to teach about making decisions.
Tiffanie Evans Browne 1:06:52
But call to remembrance, the former days, in which after you were eliminated, II entered a great fight of afflictions.
Andrea Lindsey 1:07:01
Partly, we'll see, were made a gazing stuck both by reproaches and afflictions and partly, you became companions of them that were so used,
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:07:14
for you had compassion of me in my bonds. And he took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that you have in heaven, a better and an enduring substance,
Tiffanie Evans Browne 1:07:26
Cast not away, therefore your confidence, which has greater recompense of reward.
Andrea Lindsey 1:07:32
For ye have need of patience that after ye have done the will of God, you might receive the promise.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:07:39
Okay, so 35 Cast not away, therefore your confidence. Now, another talk by Elder Holland. And this one I tell people to read all the time. I mean, you're we're laughing because we know every time a student comes to us with a question, we're like, read this talk, I don't even I'm not even giving you my advice on what to do.
Tiffanie Evans Browne 1:07:58
Well, like tell me you like you don't even know like, when you texted me the chapters, I was jumping up and down excited. Because I knew these two talks were in. Yes. And, and I have to say, he just he gets it. He can say it in such powerful, powerful moving ways.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:08:18
So let's see how well he gets it. I asked my guest to read cast not away therefore your confidence. Again, the link is in our show notes, print it off. And join us as we discuss this absolutely brilliant talk when it comes to making really important decisions. So hit it you too. What stood out to you, Andrea, you're already emotional, and I love it.
Andrea Lindsey 1:08:38
Yeah, that's just constant.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:08:41
What stood out to you guys in this talk are what stands out to you.
Andrea Lindsey 1:08:45
Okay, the paragraph that says in an effort to continue his opposition in his unfailing efforts to get his licks in later, if not sooner. Lucifer appeared and shouted in equal portions of anger and petulance after God had revealed himself to the Prophets saying, Moses worship me. But Moses was not having it. He had just seen the real thing. And by comparison, this sort of performance was pretty dismal. So of course, he's on the Mount of Transfiguration, he's been able to see these great visions, and he seen God in His glory, and now he sees Satan who's not like that, you know, and he can tell the difference, but it's not going to be easy to get him to go away. And I think that was probably scary, shocking, and devastating for for Moses. So why do we think that we're not going to have those kinds of experiences, you know, like that are scary, devastating and shocking that we can't get rid of his influence. With the first attempt at faith. It may take one or two times maybe three And and we will have to include the Lord in the entire process. So that's what I'm thinking about when I'm reading this. It's this talk was huge again, just like the other talk in helping me through those difficult years, you know, of bearing the weight of the responsibility. I mean, we talked about serving as seminary and Institute teachers as single people. And yeah, it was great. And it was glorious, but it was heavy. Oh, yeah. That was hard. Heavy. And we had to do it alone.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:10:36
Andrew, how old were you when you got married?
Andrea Lindsey 1:10:38
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:10:40
Yeah, just wanting to know the whole time you've been talking? Yeah, I was
Andrea Lindsey 1:10:43
36. And my husband had lost his wife of 25 years. The kids were 23. And one was on a mission when she died. Wow.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:10:55
Then you had an 11 year old together? Yeah. And I have an 11 year old. So 24
Andrea Lindsey 1:11:00
year span from the oldest to the youngest.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:11:06
Gosh, thank you. Like now, I understand why those verses are why that part of his talk is so important to you.
Andrea Lindsey 1:11:14
Yeah, because it didn't get easier when I got married. It actually was harder. It was harder. Harder. I heard when you talked about crying in the closet. I was gonna say
Tiffanie Evans Browne 1:11:25
tell me, you've got to tell the story of the closet.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:11:27
Oh, sure. The crying in the closet. Yeah. Get me out of here.
Andrea Lindsey 1:11:31
Yeah, I remember you saying that. And I'm like, amen. Amen. Sister like it is. It is bitterly heavy and hard. And while you can't replace them, you must take those children to be yours. Or it doesn't. It doesn't work unless you hurt for them, like you hurt for your blood children. Because the same in the ceiling. It isn't any different. You know, like, and so you you're paying when they're paid. And that's how it should be. That's how it should be.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:12:05
Well, and I've never shared my closet story. But I was in my I haven't shared it, you've got to share. Okay, so here's my closet story. After a year of being married, I had Lily. And so I've got the two older girls, they're seven and nine or 10 and eight now and the Lily's one. And we had an incident that happened where my daughters were super mad at me and they were screaming, I hate you, I hate you. And I just I have put them in timeout. And I put Lily down for a nap. And I went into my closet. And I just started crying because I thought I cannot do this anymore. Like I've made the biggest mistake of my life. And I'm sobbing thinking I just want to go home. I had a house that I had purchased. I hadn't sold it yet. And so I'm like Heavenly Father, I just want to go sleep in my own bed. Live in my house, we haven't sold it. And I am like for reals, figuring out how this is going to work out I have a little bit of money, left a job somewhere. And I'm I'm looking seeing how fast I can pack my close. Like I gotta get out of here. And I am crying, crying, crying, praying Heavenly Father, telling him this was all wrong. From the beginning, I should never have married a widower. And Jim came home from work. And he saw me in the closet. And he's like, What is going on? And I stood up and my mascara is all down my face. And I just said, I think I don't think I can do this anymore. I don't have what it takes to be a mom. This is way harder than I thought it would be. And he puts his hand out and he shakes my hand and he says, Well, I want to thank you for giving it a shot. I did laugh like I needed to laugh at that moment. I did not need him to hug me and say you're doing a great job because I wasn't. I knew what I was doing. I don't know how to be a mom. It's the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life. But going to this talk right here, the thing that struck me was the the paragraph where he says when you have decisions to make, there are cautions and considerations to make. But once there has been genuine illumination, beware the temptation to retreat from a good thing. If it was right when you prayed about it, and trusted it and live for it, it is right now. Don't give up when the pressure mounts don't give in. Certainly don't give into that being who is bent on the destruction of your happiness. He wants everyone to be miserable life unto himself. And then he says, face your doubts, master your fears. Cast not away, therefore your confidence. And then my favorite part, stay the course and see the beauty of life unfold for you. And so that day I stayed the course because I knew it was right. This is where I belonged. I didn't need to go back and live in my house and find another job. I had been illuminated and I I have seen the beauty of life unfold for me. And like you said, Andrew, it's not been easy. It is hard. It is heavy. And I just think but it was right then it was right. 17 years ago. It's still right for me now. For me. It is right now. So yeah, that's my story and that that paragraph specifically is what spoke to me and why I think why I stayed so Hey, Jeff, what about you?
Tiffanie Evans Browne 1:15:01
Well, I just had like, oh my gosh, I can so relate. And just like, I think that I've had those feelings often like, right, like, I can't do this. I can't do it. And just probably died months ago. I mean, I was in that moment, and I was crying. I went running, and I was crying. And I'm like, fine, honey, I will take what I brought into this marriage, and you can have everything else. Because he is still driving the car I bought in 2004, with 300,000 miles on it. Like, I'll take the car, and you can have the kids and everything else, I'm sure, yeah. He just kind of laughs It's like, okay, yeah, like, we're in a moment. That and another time, Mo a dark moment like this. And elder Holland gave another talk about mothers and seeing mothers. And he says, know that you're doing a good job, that you are doing a great work, that our Heavenly Father and I'm like, how did he see where I was at? How did he know exactly? My feelings as a mother like that i i will never be able to do for these children. What they need, and again, that's where the Atonement comes in. Like, the it makes up the differences that the Savior is their Savior, not me. And he will fix the hard things in their lives to
Andrea Lindsey 1:16:33
Can I say something to this wonderful comment, because it just, you know, we we will always miss those that tutored us. But it was when it's their time to go, it's their time. But the mantle remains. And the mantle goes on. And he knows what you need. Because the mantle, it's, it's the mantle of the apostleship. It's Jesus that uses them. He used their voice. And it's Jesus that's talking. He's just using their voice is using their life. He's using their experience. I want to hang on that. I didn't want to see Elder Scott go I didn't want to go. I didn't want to see Elder Maxwell go. I didn't want to see anybody go. But oh, and President Hinckley that was ouch, you know. And President Monson, they're all like, just so amazing. And And yet, the mantle does go Jesus doesn't go he he's gonna be there. It isn't. And I think that we have to build faith in the things that never go. And, and it's, it's that, that we hang on to,
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:18:18
while in after both of what you shared. I think it's fitting that we ended this segment with his final words in this talk. Other Holland says, Fear ye not. And when the second and the third and the fourth blows, come, Fear ye not the Lord shall fight for you. Cast not away, therefore your confidence. And then he says, I say this in the sacred and holy name of our protector and Redeemer, even the Lord Jesus Christ me, man. Thank you babies. Amen to that talk. Good talk. Such a good talk. Okay, so here we then in our last segment, for any of you who do feel stuck, and feel like you aren't quite sure which direction to go, or if you're sitting in your closet. So for any of us who feel that way, you actually probably can count it that you are among whom the Lord loves, and we'll talk about that next.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:19:10
All right, everyone, go to Hebrews chapter 12 Verse six, underline this. Verse six says, for whom the Lord loveth he chased an earth and scourge with every son with whom we receive a three there for whom the Lord love if he Jason if all right, right, my natural reaction is like, oh, okay, seriously, the cynic in me just can't with this verse because I feel like it's a platitude, and you guys know how I feel. We're anti platitudes. It's like something that someone would say when you go through a hard time, well, you know what they say who the Lord loves He chastens. So I've asked Andrea to convince me it's not a platitude. I want you to help me believe by the end of this time that the Lord really does love Have those who chastens hit it, Andrea?
Andrea Lindsey 1:20:03
Well, I think it's an anchor. I think it's an anchoring. And I think that one one of the problems and one of the hiccups is we just don't use word Jason. And, you know, I once said to somebody about chasen, and she's like, Yeah, he was chasing me around, like, and I was like, you know, it's such an unfamiliar word. And, and we, of course, as gospel teachers get this word, love this, the concept but really, we want to say maybe, and replace with correct stretch, encourage growth and growth mindset, develop a growth mindset, because if you're in a growth mindset, this is like, pump you up scriptures not tearing you down. Like you have to know truth to grow, you have to know truth, to change, to increase your faith. And that will include correcting the misspeaking that we have that are sometimes not even our we didn't even originate the thought, you know, like it is just part of the fallen condition is part of our upbringing. And we've got it, we've got to switch it around.
Tiffanie Evans Browne 1:21:17
So and I think also, Andrew, sorry to interrupt you, it goes back to what you said earlier. When we have our sweats and our comfort, and we're living, we live in such a comfort. We don't want to be uncomfortable in our lives anymore. Like that is not what we want. I want my blanket, I want my fuzzy socks. I want that fireplace.
Andrea Lindsey 1:21:40
Yeah, and we don't want anybody to disagree with this. You know, my husband was talking about, you know, we hear a lot in society of don't judge. But I think what people are really saying is don't disagree with me. Don't have an alternate opinion. Because that makes me uncomfortable. And
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:22:01
I want my fuzzy socks, especially the Lord. We don't want the Lord to disagree with us. We want the Lord to be on our side, in all instances. Oh, Lord, it's like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna stretch you on this one. I'm gonna have you this. This is changing the way I think of it. I like that definition. Andrea, whom the Lord stretches he loves whom the Lord gives growth to he loves. I like that better.
Andrea Lindsey 1:22:23
Yeah, and I think if we do that, we'll have less heartburn. You know, we'll just be like, Oh, okay, like this is growth mentality, I get that people are talking about that. And that's celestial mindset, when we're willing to grow like because, you know, I often think about Joseph Smith, when Joseph Smith talks about, it will be a long time after we have crossed over the veil that we will have learned everything necessary for exultation, like, let's get rid of the idea that we got it here that we've arrived. Such a good quote, Andrea, it is a good quote, because it anchors us in the right direction. It's like, get over the fact that like, you don't want to change, you don't want somebody to disagree with you. Like one time I was praying. And it was like, clear, audible voice counsel me not. So you don't get it. You know, like your mortal mind doesn't have the capacity to get what I'm trying to do to you like, and I am trying to do something to you. I'm trying to bring your pre mortal memory back, and you forgotten it. You don't know who you are. You don't know your purpose. And I keep getting told that I like even now. It's like, you don't know who you are. And I'm like, I thought it was getting somewhere you don't. And that's probably why he told me that. Because I need to stick on this growth mindset. And so look at the next verse, and highlight this one just as much as you highlight verse six, because if you entertain me, God dealing with you as with sons, for what sense? Is he who the father chasing? Not? He's like, do you want to be His child or not? Then expect correction because you love your children enough to correct them? Why wouldn't you want God to do the same for you? It is hard to get support as a parent, so just 100% I support you, okay, and God support you and in disciplining in the Lord. Because discipline is discipleship. And, and that's really what it's about. It's a leading, it's leading them to Christ. And if we look at nine Furthermore, we have had fathers of our own flesh, which corrected this and we gave them reverence. Look at that, like, and we were right. Your granny I know you're right. Okay. And at shall we not much rather be subjecting unto the Father of our spirits and live. I mean, we're willing to subject ourselves to in perfect, flawed parents. Why not trust the perfect one, the Merciful One, the one that would never injure us, the one that would only require the growth that's essential. The one who desires mercy, like he, he wants us to do that. Now, look at verse 10, for they barely for a few days chasing us after their own pleasure, for he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. And like, sometimes our parents are like, Yeah, I'm just gonna have fun with you, okay? I'm just gonna mess with you, you're gonna clean your room, you're gonna clean the whole house or whatever, I don't know. But then it says, But then it says, but he's trying to do this for your holiness, he's trying to make it. I once had a prompting that was like a storm is coming. And this is to help prepare you. And then I was hit with the most incapacitating anxiety. And I was like, whoa, what in the world and it's like, you're a storm is coming, and you need to be ready. And I and I looked at my life, and I did a real inventory of like, is there anything in my life that is not righted? That's giving Satan the power to blow some wind in my direction? Like, what do I need to unpack from my, my desires, that that would make me better. And I remember having a really good discussion with my bishop, and just talking about all of my imperfections and, and, and laying them on the altar, really, because that's who you represented. And, and I was like, I don't care how simple These may seem. I can't afford any of it. And at the time, I was working on a master's degree. And I was working with the general young women's department, I was working with BYU and I was working with a church curriculum department on a first correlated effort to provide a doctrinal analysis of the Olympus curriculum. That's a mouthful, so is the title and of the book, but it's a doctrinal and historical analysis of the young women's curriculum, from the beginning of the church until to at that time, it was proof come follow me. And it was the hardest thing up until having children that I had ever done. And I was wracked with just intense, every day, winds, I was requesting blessings, my brother would come over like I had, it was so heavy. I was sick for years after. But he couldn't break my confidence. Because I was letting God weed out all the bad, weed out all the stuff that was mortal, weed out all the stuff that was unnecessary to hang on to all the guilt, all the trauma. And so I really want to kind of conclude with a couple questions with because I feel like you ladies have a huge amounts of wisdom and strength. And and so this one is rhetorical. So I just want everybody to think because sometimes these are too personal to share, but it isn't too personal for a journal. I really think these need to be in journals, because our children and our children's children need to see that things weren't perfect. But this is how we get through it. You know? And what are you willing to suffer? Like, what are you willing to suffer like, great things will be required at your hands. Right? Right. Christ tells his apostles great things, you know, and we saw the evidence of that, like great things were required great suffering was required. So what are you willing to suffer and, and realize that this is a loving Father, that won't make you suffer more than you have to? Like, this is a this is a loving father that will be there the whole time with you crying and wiping away tears. He's not going to leave you alone in this. But but but you're gonna have to do some hard things. It's not going to be it's not going to be easy. And I just to provide a little more context for the next question that I'm going to ask If we look at Hebrews chapter 11, and we look at who they're talking about, they're talking about Enoch. They're talking about Noah. They're talking about Abraham, and they're talking about Christ. And what do they all have in common? These are dispensation fathers. And they were called to do some of the hardest things there was bring a culture out of apostasy and restore the gospel. This is not easy work. But this is the the fun, okay, I love either 12 And I look at either 12 And Hebrews 11 They're like parallel verses or chapters, you know that you can look at these two and you're like, wow, they're written the same way. They are the pump you up scriptures. They are the when they are when things are difficult, things can get better if Christ is a part of it. And and so this, this closing question, like we can point people, we can gather Israel, we can do it, but when have you been prompted, prompted, chastened, or encouraged to grow? You know, like if you want to use a different word, and I think we just close on that like, because we can't gather Israel and not expect to be gathered ourselves. Andrea?
Tiffanie Evans Browne 1:31:28
Oh, I am just grateful for the opportunities to work in the kingdom, and that it is hard. And but when you said that those are the people with it. It makes you wonder why Rahab was added in there. She wasn't the head of a defense dispensation. And sometimes I think we feel like we're lost. We're the we're the RE have lost on the side. Not doing much. But that our efforts are might only be for us. And that's good enough. That's all that matters.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:32:06
Beautiful and gravely you brought that connection back in with Rahab. For me, when you taught us that chasen means to correct to stretch or growth like a growth mindset. Andrea, I think you've convinced me this. Hebrews chapter 12. Verse Six is not a platitude, because then I read verse 11. And verse 11, says, Now, no chastening for the present. seamoth to be joyous. I mean, can we get an amen? Well, that's true, right? Nothing joys about that, but grievous. Nevertheless, afterward, it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. And that is just what you taught us, Andrea, like it's not easy. It's not fun, it is grievous, and it will yield the peaceable fruit of righteousness which goes back to what you taught us at the very beginning, Tiffany, about this high priest, and about learning about Jesus Christ and having him just break that veil so that we can all be partakers of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. And that's why we have it. So when we're chastened when we're growing, when we're being corrected, we can lean into our knowledge of Jesus Christ, he's going to help us through it, he's going to wipe away our tears. And, and the Lord does love us, then I think I believe you now.
Tiffanie Evans Browne 1:33:20
I loved that,
Andrea Lindsey 1:33:21
I was confident that you would be happy.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:33:26
Because I did read it. And I didn't even look into that verse. I just thought, Andrea, this is on you, you're gonna have to convince me. So that definition, changing the word Chase, and that was that was a game changer for me. So thank you. Thank you, ladies. Thank you. That was such a great discussion today. Oh my gosh. Okay. So here's what I asked my guests to do at the end of our discussion, gather your thoughts. And what's one takeaway, what's one thing that maybe struck you from our discussion that was said or that you'll remember, I have to go back to all my notes,
Andrea Lindsey 1:33:53
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:33:56
I'll start mine was to think you change the way we view the word Cherubim. And the way we look at deacons, I thought that was so awesome. And just not even deacons. But Bishop state presidents like who is protecting who is covering the Mercy Seat who is protecting the atonement for all of us and bringing us to Christ. And this idea that deacons are bringing us the you know, the quote, unquote, piece of coal, that piece of bread that we're supposed to use to repent to cleanse ourselves with. I loved that. And then yeah, for sure, Andrea, it was redefining the word Chase enough. Because when we are stretching and we're growing, we have to remember the Lord loves us in that moment, and it's not joyous. It is grievous. And that's okay. It all turned out good in the end. So yeah, I love that.
Andrea Lindsey 1:34:43
I think the thought for me was at three o'clock, vales rent and we are invited, because of Christ separates to be joint heirs and If it's done, we just now need to believe, act, move forward, and never let go. Don't cast away your confidence because the blessings will come.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:35:14
Excellent. Excellent takeaway, Andrea.
Tiffanie Evans Browne 1:35:17
Good thing for me after, as you talked about, like, the faith needs vision, you have to have vision in order to have faith and you have to have to be able to see. And that there is the weak faith is in everything. Wait. Yeah.
Tammy Uzelac Hall 1:35:38
Thank you. Wow. Ladies are awesome. That was as that was more incredible than I thought it would be. Like I thought, Oh, I'll take some notes. But that discussion when you've got gospel scholars, you ladies, thank you for paying the price to know about scriptures. So I love you both. This is so great. Love you. Okay, well share with us what you've learned. If you haven't joined our discussion group on Facebook or Instagram, go do it. It is awesome. Because you can share ideas or questions you have throughout the week. And then on Saturday, we post a comment that has a question that's relating to this episode. So go share your answers and thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday and it's not a bad idea to go there because we're going to have links to all the references we used as well as a transcript of this whole discussion. The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Desert Bookshelf Plus original and it's brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me Tammy Uzelac. Hall and today our beautiful participants were Tiffany Evans Brown and Andrea Erickson Lindsey and you can find more information about my friends at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me and is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producers Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember that really, you are God's favorite, especially if He chastens you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai