The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: God will do whatever he says he's going to do. It's going to happen and nothing can stop his work. The end. That's what the Holy Ghost taught me this week. As I studied second Nephi chapters 26 through 30, I needed this reminder this week. And while you guys listen, of course I know this, but sometimes I forget and most times Satan wants me to, he's the worst.

These chapters are filled with so much goodness that I wonder what the Holy Ghost will teach you. Will it teach you the same thing? That God will do whatever He says He's going to do. In fact, maybe that might be our question for the week. What did the Holy Ghost teach you? I'm going to look forward to your answers.

Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week, and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. If you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description that will explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study.

Just like my friend, Carolyn Clawson. Hi, Carolyn. Oh, listen. You're a delight. And I'm so grateful I got to meet you. Now, another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different. And I am thrilled to introduce you to Jennifer and Mike Lindsay from Houston, Texas.

Hi, you two.

[00:01:26] Jennifer Lindsay: Hi, Tammy. How are you?

[00:01:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I'm so happy to see your faces. I love you two so much because for everyone that's listening, I just want you to know these two people come from one of the most phenomenal families in all of Texas, probably all the United States. I love their family so much and I got to see Mike and Lindsay unfortunately at a funeral back in November and the minute I met them, the spirit was like, they're going to be on the podcast.

And I am so happy you're here finally. Yay! Okay, just tell everybody who you are and how we know each other, all that fun stuff. How do you know each other? First of all?

[00:02:01] Mike Lindsay: Well, we know each other cause we're married. We've been, we've talked about this last night. We've been married for 21 years. It'll be 22 years this summer.

[00:02:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Kudos. Good job.

[00:02:14] Jennifer Lindsay: Well, thanks.

[00:02:15] Mike Lindsay: Yeah. I grew up in the Houston area. Again, she can tell you she grew up in El Paso, which I think is where the connection was made. Yep. Um, we have one son, he's 14 going on 20 at least.

[00:02:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: He's a grown man. He's ready to get out and get his own apartment. Yeah.

[00:02:35] Mike Lindsay: Yeah. Freshman in high school.

So we're, we're in that mode right now. Sure. .

[00:02:39] Jennifer Lindsay: But interesting. We met each other, um, twice. It took two times for us to get married. Yep. We met the first time in College Station, um, at Texas A& M. And then the second time we met here in Houston in the singles ward and then it just clicked and took off. I love that.

[00:03:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. And Jen, let's do a little shout out to all your family members that we love in El Paso. Who, who listens to the podcast we could give a shout out to?

[00:03:08] Jennifer Lindsay: Oh, wow. Well, all the Houghtons, that's my maiden name and all the Browns. All of them. There's a lot of us. So I can just say the last names. How about that?

[00:03:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And your cousin, Kimberly Brown is one of my all time favorites. She's one of my best friends. And so that's how we originally met. We've actually first met at her wedding a long time ago. Um, and then we met up again. When I was out there in November. So that is right.

[00:03:31] Jennifer Lindsay: That is right. Yes. And she's, she's one of my favorites to

[00:03:35] Mike Lindsay: She was your maid of honor, right?

[00:03:36] Jennifer Lindsay: She's my maid of honor.

[00:03:37] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I didn't know that.

[00:03:38] Jennifer Lindsay: I don't have any biological sisters. I have sisters in law. I just have brothers. So she was my Made of honor.

[00:03:45] Mike Lindsay: And I had to go through all four of them.

[00:03:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Hey, listen, that's a tough clan. Oh, okay. This is going to be such a fun discussion. Well, those of you listening, if you want to know more about my guests and see their pictures and read their bios, you can find them in our show notes, which are at LDS living.

com slash Sunday on Monday. So everyone grab your scriptures and whether you're studying alone with family or let's dig in together to second Nephi chapters 26 through 30. Okay, you two, tell me, what did the Holy Ghost teach you as you studied these chapters?

[00:04:16] Jennifer Lindsay: So second, Nephi 26. I love what he says. 26 verse 33, for none of these iniquities come of the Lord for he doeth that which is good among the children of men.

And he doeth nothing. Save it. Be plain unto the children of men. And he invited them all. to come unto him and partake of his goodness, and denyeth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female. And he remembered the heathen and all are alike, and to God, both Jew and Gentile. I love that.

Everybody is his favorite.

[00:04:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes. Everybody. His favorite. I'm putting that right next to that verse. What else about that verse stood out to you?

[00:05:05] Jennifer Lindsay: Just how much he loves us. Always that he remembers us all and he wants us all together with him again.

[00:05:15] Mike Lindsay: I think when we both, when Jen and I were talking about this, we, we both actually independently came to these scriptures.

Um, in second Nephi 26, I actually looked at 25 through 27 and 33. Um, just cause they. They just provide to me, just kind of the essence of the gospel. And I read it, there was a quote from Elder Holland and he said about these verses is that perhaps no other passage in the book of Mormon conveys more plainly the breadth of Christ's gift for all people everywhere than those, which Nephi then recorded the gift was given freely and would be denied to no one who came to partake of that mercy and salvation.

I love that. It just really summarizes what the gospel is to me.

[00:06:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and in that quote, when you said the gift, that is powerful because as a person who loves gifts and loves giving gifts, I've never considered that verse to be basically the gift, um, the summation of that gift. So I'm grateful that you brought that quote up, Mike.

That was powerful. Wow. Thank you. This is going to be an incredible discussion because what you just read, everything will come back to that verse. All of the good, everything he does, he does it for every single one of us. And I just, I love how you connected that Jen, where everybody is his favorite. It really is true.

It's not just me making that up. That verse, he loves all of us and everything he does, he does for our good and he's going to do it because he said he would. So this is going to be an awesome discussion. So thank you. Thank you for coming prepared to share that. So in the next segment, we're going to be in our study of a very common phrase that has a cool Hebrew twist and connection.

Segment 2

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[00:07:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Here's a fun question. And we were talking before we started that we're about the same age, so we'll remember things. Okay. Of all the things that have ever been invented or created in your lifetime, what do you think is the most incredible, the most marvelous?

[00:07:25] Jennifer Lindsay: Well, besides Diet Coke, I think maybe my iRobot, the one that vacuums my floor for me.

[00:07:31] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, that's a good one. That is fantastic. So marvelous. Okay. I love it. iRobot and Diet Coke. Can I get an amen? Seriously? Amen. Amen. What about you, Mike?

[00:07:43] Mike Lindsay: I, I, uh, I'm a big sports fan. So I would say college football is something that brings me great joy., that's a lot of, and I think I can speak for Jen as well. That's a lot of our Saturdays. We're both, we both spent a lot of time with, uh, going up to college football games and our son is following in our footsteps. He's been going since he was in the womb, literally. Um, and I, you know, and I also love baseball. Those are kind of two of my favorites. So, um, those are the secular answers, I guess.

[00:08:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Those are great answers. I would never have considered those in my, that didn't even cross my mind that that would have been an invention, but it totally is. That's good. Um, I thought of the microwave. I can remember the day my dad brought a microwave home. It was like that old timey, just imagine in your mind, the dad coming home from work with this big gigantic box and all the kids are huddled around the counter and it was enormous.

The microwave was so big, they didn't have little ones you could just store away. It was huge. And I remember we put the first thing in there to cook and warm up. It was the greatest day of our lives. And then ever since then, you wouldn't believe the things we found out we can and can't put in the microwave just by our own experience.

Fun fact, if you put a piece of bologna in the microwave, it microwaves up to the shape of a cup. You get some, some squeeze cheese and put it right in there. You're going to get a ham and cheese sandwich right in the palm of your hand. It's delicious. All right. There you go. All those things. Great inventions.

Let's find out what God's answer would be to the most marvelous thing ever created. Here we go. We're going to go to second Nephi chapter 25 verse 17. Mike, will you please read verse 17?

[00:09:18] Mike Lindsay: I will. Second Nephi chapter 25 verse 17 and the Lord will set his hand again the second time to restore his people from their lost and fallen state.

Wherefore, he will proceed to do a marvelous work and a wonder among the children of men.

[00:09:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Underline marvelous work and a wonder and draw a line and connect it to the word restore. And then we're going to cross reference right up above that word, restore them right. This scripture reference second Nephi 29 verse one.

And Jenny, will you read that for us?

[00:09:48] Jennifer Lindsay: Sure. But behold, there shall be many at that day when I shall proceed to do a marvelous work among them, that I may remember my covenants, which I have made unto the children of men, that I may set my hand again the second time to recover my people, which are of the house of Israel.

[00:10:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So underline or highlight the word recover and draw a line to marvelous work. The word recover would also be restore right there. So, according to these two verses, the first answer for God would be Restoration. Such a marvelous thing for him. Let's find out the other thing he thinks is marvelous. We're going to go to second Nephi chapter 27 and we're going to look at verse 26 and then Mike, will you please read verse 26?

[00:10:35] Mike Lindsay: Well, therefore I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people. Yay. A marvelous work in a wonder for the wisdom of their wise and learned shall perish in the understanding of their prudent shall be hid.

[00:10:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Let's highlight marvelous work in a wonder right there. And to the outside, I'm gonna have you put a cross reference and put the cross reference Isaiah 29 verses 12 through 14.

Now, Isaiah 29 is also second Nephi chapter 27, the chapter we're in right now, and it's Through 14. So just turn the page back and bracket off those verses 12 through 14. These verses are about the Book of Mormon. Isaiah is talking about the Book of Mormon in this chapter, and then he says in verse 26, which you just read, Mike, that the Book of Mormon is a marvelous work and wonder.

This phrase in Hebrew is so unique. Because the phrase marvelous work and wonder is a cognate accusative. We've kind of learned about this year. This is when you have a verb and an object in a sentence that share the same origin or root. So marvelous work and wonder in the Hebrew text is actually wonder of wonders.

Now I looked into these two words a little deeper, and this is what the Holy Ghost taught me in Hebrew. The first wonder is translated into what is called he feel form. So I've learned this this year. And for anyone who's taking Hebrew, any of my Hebrew friends, you know, this verbs can be translated different ways to mean different things.

And the he feel form means something's causing it to happen. So when a verb is he feel, it means someone's causing it to happen. So in this example. God will cause the wonder of wonders to happen. He is going to do it because it's his work. He will cause the Book of Mormon to come forth and he will cause the restoration to happen.

And by the way, continue to happen. I think this is so neat. And we have this awesome quote, because in April, Of 2020 at General Conference, President Nelson read to us the restoration of the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Do you remember we saw that video and he read the proclamation basically to all of us.

Listen to what he said. This is so cool.

[00:12:54] President Russell M. Nelson: Two hundred years have now elapsed since this restoration was initiated by God, the father and his beloved son, Jesus Christ. Millions throughout the world. Have embraced a knowledge of these prophesied events. We gladly declare that the promised restoration goes forward through continuing revelation.

The earth will never again be the same as God will gather together in one all things in Christ with reverence and gratitude. We, as his apostles, invite all to know, as we do, that the heavens are open. We affirm that God is making known his will for his beloved sons and daughters. We testify that those who prayerfully study the message of the Restoration and act in faith will be blessed to gain their own witness of its divinity.

And of its purpose, to prepare the world for the promised second coming of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

[00:14:13] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I mean, Now, that will be a marvelous work in a wonder when the savior comes again. And all of this, the restoration, the book of Mormon, our events leading up to the savior coming again. It is incredible.

And so as we're thinking about the restoration and we're thinking about the book of Mormon, I asked you to think of this question, like what aspect of the restoration is marvelous and wonderful to you? Do you guys think of that of an answer? What came to your mind?

[00:14:41] Mike Lindsay: Uh, I'll go first on this one. I think a lot of things, first of all, but the one that really, I thought of, um, the most was just the fact that we have a living prophet that, that has provided such comfort to me. Um, and it kind of goes back to what we originally started with that, that. God loves us forever, right? And he's, he continues to love us today. He didn't stop, stop loving us. Didn't, we didn't stop needing guidance. And so I'm, that's the first thing I thought of was the fact that we have a living prophet to help guide us through, um, I guess these latter days, I mean, and I'm very grateful for that.

[00:15:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You know, Mike, as you said that it immediately took me to Doctrine and Covenants where the God calls this church, the true and living church, and you just nailed it on the head. It's living because we have a living prophet and we have ongoing revelation. Wow. That is so cool that that's something that you think is marvelous.

[00:15:48] Mike Lindsay: Yeah. And, and we'll, we can get into this. I'm a convert to the church.

[00:15:53] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I didn't even know that.

[00:15:54] Mike Lindsay: Yep. I joined the church when I was 19. And, um,

[00:15:58] Jennifer Lindsay: that's one of my favorite things about him.

[00:16:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It is mine now.

[00:16:03] Mike Lindsay: So one, yeah. I mean, and that was, I mean, there's a lot of things, but that was one of them that really resonated with me was, um, that we do have prophets and apostles on the earth today.

Um, and the Lord loves us so much that he does provide that for us to help us. .

[00:16:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. I mean, what was that process like when you are learning about the church and you find out we have a prophet on the earth, like, cause you said it resonated with you. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

[00:16:30] Mike Lindsay: Yeah.

And I guess it kind of goes. This is going to go full circle. I think I'll, I'll tell you a little bit about that story. Um, i, like I said, I grew up, we're in the suburbs of Houston. I grew up actually kind of where the temple is now over in that general direction. It wasn't the temple then, but, um, the church was pretty strong, um, in, in that part of the city, I guess.

And I had a lot of acquaintances who were members of the church that I didn't even know were until later on. And then eventually when I was in high school, I got to be friends. Um, with a few members of the church and one of them eventually invited me to church. Um, and so I went to church and her dad gave me a copy of the book of Mormon and he marked a few, few passages.

Um, and then I, I kind of went on my, I went off to college, my first year of college and I had the Book of Mormon with me. And, you know, I, I, I did read the verses he, he suggested, one of which was, was Moroni chapter 10, verses three through five. And then I struggling not struggling, I guess I was not enjoying my first semester of college.

Let me put it that way. And, um, kind of, uh, I read the Book of Mormon. Um, so my mine was I read the Book of Mormon. before I'd ever met with the missionaries before those things about a living prophet came later for me after I really had a testimony of the Book of Mormon. So that those were always, and I, growing up, I was pretty inquisitive of when we went to church.

Um, but there, I had questions that just weren't being answered to my satisfaction. And then the fact that we had a living prophet, it was like, Oh, wow, those, He provides the answers for, for those questions that I was having. So, I mean, that's kind of a long way of, of, of getting to, to the answer, I guess.

[00:18:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's a great answer. Thank you. Here's what I look forward to talking more about your testimony of the Book of Mormon in the next couple of segments when we talk about it. That's gonna be awesome. So thank you. Jenny, what about you?

[00:18:34] Jennifer Lindsay: Well, I love that quote and it kind of goes with what I was thinking. It says the earth will never again be the same.

And I think about with the restoration of gospel comes the temple. And I'm like Mike, I've been, you know, a member my whole life, and I've, that was one of my , you know, since I was teeny tiny, my goals was to be married in the temple. That's what I wanted. And I wasn't going to deviate from it. And then once you know, you get a little older, you think, Oh man, I wonder, do you really think I'm going to have to go all the way to Utah to get married or Arizona?

I really don't want to get married there. I want to get married in Texas in my home state. Well then temple started popping up everywhere with Gordon B Hinckley being our prophet and those smaller temples and. Um, one was built 20 minutes from my house. It happened to be in a different country, but it was, uh, the Ciudad Juárez Temple is where we were, um, for time and all eternity.

And what a blessing that was for our families, both of ours, because we had to be married civilly first. So we were married civilly first in my parents backyard because the Mexican government doesn't recognize temple weddings and validate them. And so we were married, um, By my former bishop and my parents backyard.

Um, so both sets of our families could be there and see that. I thought, I think that was, that was very important to both of us. And then we all jumped in the car on a hot June day and we were sealed in the, um, in the Juárez temple.

[00:20:26] Mike Lindsay: When, anyone asks us, you know, something interesting about yourself our standard answer is always, we were married twice. In the same day in two different countries.

[00:20:36] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Hey, that's pretty awesome. No. Who can say that? That's pretty cool. Not many people. Really? No, not at all. Well, I appreciate your testimony of temples, Jenny, and that was powerful, especially when you went back and read that part because I felt the spirit so strongly when it said the earth will never again be the same.

Just like, I'm so grateful you brought that up. We all felt it because we know it's true and the earth hasn't been the same since the restoration began and we're living in the restoration and it continues to not be the same. And we, because we're in a living church with a living prophet, I mean, what a marvelous work in wonder.

It is a wonder of wonders, the most wonderful it could possibly be. It's just so awesome. So thank you both of you for thinking through that question and for coming prepared to answer that. That was so cool. So throughout this episode, we get to study many of the wonder of wonders or the most marvelous things that the Lord is going to cause to be.

And we're going to start in second Nephi chapter 27. In the next segment,

Segment 3

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[00:21:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I gave you to a little assignment for this segment. And I asked you to go through second Nephi chapter 27 and highlight every time you read the words, the book, right? The book. Okay. What did you guys find?

[00:22:01] Jennifer Lindsay: I have 21.

[00:22:02] Mike Lindsay: Oh, I only counted 20. I must've missed one.

[00:22:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ooh. Yeah, maybe. Okay. Listen, everybody listening.

I want you to hit the pause button. Take a quick minute. Go through this chapter and highlight every time you see the phrase, the book or a book. You could also include that. Maybe you did a book. I did a book, but the book. Here's a fun fact about what you guys just did. So second Nephi chapter 27 is also Isaiah chapter 29.

This chapter of Isaiah's writings, it has been quoted more often by general authorities of the church than any other. chapter in all of scripture. It's not fascinating. Yes.

[00:22:40] Mike Lindsay: When we first talked about doing this podcast, I, I said a little prayer to myself. I hope it's not the Isaiah chapters because I struggle with those. I really do. But it kind of makes me realize I need to, I think sometimes I just give up. I was like, I don't understand this. I'm just skipping ahead where I, if I spent more time with it, I think I could, I'm never going to completely understand it, but I've had to understand it more and do a better job of it.

[00:23:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Okay. Well, how cool is this Mike? Because then I had you go through and mark the book every time you saw it in chapter 27 or Isaiah chapter 29. And what did you learn that the book was after doing that? Just tell me what the book is that it's talking about.

[00:23:23] Mike Lindsay: Yeah. It's the Book of Mormon.

[00:23:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes. So look at that.

You already understand Isaiah chapter 29. Well done. It is entirely about the Book of Mormon. So what I want to know is, as you were reading this, was there anything that stood out to you that it taught us about the Book of Mormon? Any verses that struck you?

[00:23:39] Jennifer Lindsay: Um, specifically for me, uh, verse two. Verse 20 of chapters 27 of second Nephi, then shall the Lord say unto him, the learned shall not read them for they have rejected them.

And I, and I am able to do mine own work wherefore thou shalt read the words which I shall give unto thee.

[00:24:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, tell me why I'm marking that right now.

[00:24:04] Jennifer Lindsay: Well I think about Joseph Smith, I have a , 14 year old boy myself, and I think of him translating. This wonderful book. And I look at my 14 year old son and I'm like, how, what a marvelous work in wonder.

Right. I mean, I just think, and you took an unlearned man to write it so that the Lord could fulfill what he wanted to write. Because I think someone who is really educated probably would have changed a lot of things. Like how many times a book has been said.

[00:24:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh, you're totally right. And we've pointed that out before with the phrase, it came to pass.

But I've never applied that to right here, the book. You're totally right. They would have taken, it's a lot of the books in some of these verses. Ooh, thank you for pointing that out, Jenny. That's awesome. Keep going. Any other verses you guys marked about the book?

[00:25:01] Mike Lindsay: The one that that jumped out to me was, uh, second Nephi 27 verse seven.

Uh, and behold, the book shall be sealed and in the book shall be a revelation from God from the beginning of the world to the end thereof. I just love the fact that it's the book shall be a revelation from God that just, it kind of takes me back a little bit to, um, the beginning of first Nephi where, you know, Nephi says, I'm just going to write the things that are pleasing unto God.

Um, or worth unto God. And I think that's what we have here. This is, it's a very, this is the revelation from God. And it's pretty clear to me what, what the Book of Mormon is.

[00:25:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, Mike, tell me what your experience was like reading the Book of Mormon.

[00:25:49] Mike Lindsay: It's interesting, um, having not met with the missionaries or not, not had those discussions.

And I was, I was really reading it in my college dorm. And I felt, I just kept reading, you know, it was one of those where I just, I just would, I would look forward to that time every day. I would, I kind of had the time when I knew my roommate was going to be at class and I would read it then. Um, and then I, I, I remember getting to the end of the Book of Mormon and, and, and reading, um, Moroni's Promise and, and, and, and taking that, and I remember, I distinctly remember lying in, being in my dorm room, in my bed, and I felt this is going to sound weird. I felt like I was being cradled. And I didn't know what that was, right. I didn't know what that was. And then I, obviously I eventually, um, it felt good. And I eventually, when I met with the missionaries, I learned that, okay, that was the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost was confirming that, that what I read was the word of God.

Um, And then kind of once I understood that it went pretty quickly, I was baptized pretty quickly there thereafter. Um, and it was kind of interesting. I knew I wasn't going to stay at the school I started with and I was, I was actually accepted to BYU as a non member.

[00:27:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, wow.

[00:27:10] Mike Lindsay: Which, which is, which is in and of itself.

Then I had to get the ecclesiastical endorsement, but I had to, I got it from the pastor at the church I was attending, which, which was, Always an interesting process, but I mean, so I, the Book of Mormon obviously has a very special place in my heart. I know because of it, I was baptized because of it. I went to the temple.

I served a mission. Married in the temple and now my family is sealed forever. And we even talked about it last night. It's, it's now not only going forward, our family will have those blessings, but going backward as we've also been able to, you know, do a lot of that, that temple work for my family who, who has passed, there's obviously a lot of work to be done and so, and that I can really attribute that to the Book of Mormon.

Um, That's really what, I mean, obviously the Holy Ghost ultimately led, led, led that conversion, but it was really driven by the Book of Mormon in my case.

[00:28:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. That is powerful. It sounds like to me last night, you had a pretty great conversation about some of this stuff. Um, Jenny, what was your thoughts on this or talking about the Book of Mormon?

[00:28:20] Jennifer Lindsay: My experience with the Book of Mormon is I've had it, you know, my entire life, I've never known. anything without it. And sometimes I think I look back on my life and reflect those times where either my mother was teaching me or perhaps the primary teacher or seminary where I took it for granted.

[00:28:41] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.

[00:28:43] Jennifer Lindsay: I truly did. I'm, you know, we were, we would sit at the breakfast table in the morning and my, we had those cassette tapes of the Book of Mormon and my mom would slide one in and, you know, the phone would ring and so she'd be off in the corner talking on the phone and my brother would hit the fast forward button as fast as he could so we could be done with that chapter and we could be done.

[00:29:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, that's funny. I think that's so, I know exactly what you're talking about with those tapes. Mm hmm.

[00:29:11] Jennifer Lindsay: Yeah. But those times that I did read it and I have applied it to my life and I've really have had a deep dive into the Book of Mormon, how impactful it is in my life and how when Mike talks about revelation, I might not, it might not be revelation on the page, but it comes through the Holy Ghost, that revelation of things that I need in my life and how grateful I am for that. .

[00:29:41] Tammy Uzelac Hall: For sure. You know, going back to the proclamation that our prophet read, here's what he said about the Book of Mormon in that same document.

[00:29:50] President Russell M. Nelson: We further witness that Joseph Smith was given the gift and power of God to translate an ancient record, the Book of Mormon. Another Testament of Jesus Christ.

Pages of this sacred text include an account of the personal ministry of Jesus Christ among people in the Western Hemisphere soon after his resurrection. It teaches of life's purpose and explains the doctrine of Christ, which is central to that purpose. As the companion scripture to the Bible, the Book of Mormon testifies that all human beings are sons and daughters of a loving Father in heaven, that he has a divine plan for our lives.

And that his son, Jesus Christ speaks today as well as in days of old.

[00:30:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You know what's striking me right now? You guys didn't even know I was gonna share this quote. You had no idea. And yet everything you've shared has been what this quote said, , that is right there, A powerful truth that these words are true.

That is so cool how you are able to sum everything up with your comments and here's what the prophet's saying about it, and then. There's a promise that comes from the Book of Mormon because Jenny, you said you took it for granted. I think there's a lot of us that have done that in our lives where we listened as kids or we were forced to.

And at some point we have to decide, is it real? Is it true? Are we going to really study it and read it? And in 2017 our prophet gave us this promise for reading the Book of Mormon. Mike, will you read this quote for us?

[00:31:33] Mike Lindsay: My dear brothers and sisters, I promise that as you prayerfully study the Book of Mormon every day.

. You will make better decisions every day. I promise that as you ponder what you study, the windows of heaven will open and you will receive answers to your own questions and direction for your own life. I promise that as you daily immerse yourself in the book of Mormon, you can be immunized against the evils of the day, even the gripping plague of pornography and other mind numbing addictions.

[00:32:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That is a powerful promise. So my question is, Is it real? Can either one of you testify that the promise is true?

[00:32:12] Mike Lindsay: Yeah, I can testify because I wouldn't be here. I mean, mine, mine is pretty straightforward. You know, now as a, as a, it's interesting with this quote, I think you and I've talked about it, but I teach seminary.

Um, that's my calling right now. And there was, it was last week or two, I can't remember which one, um, I was out one day and my teen teacher, he played this. This whole talk and I wasn't there and then I came in on Friday and taught and I played the same So the two of us independently of each other played the same quote And so I think that's interesting not interesting It's it's absolutely what the Lord wants is, you know, the Lord works through repetition a lot And I've definitely seen that in my life as I've as I've read the Book of Mormon as I've studied the Book of Mormon on the daily it's just

I just, I can, I know I have the spirit with me more. I know I make, um, more inspired decisions, whether it's as a seminary teacher, as a husband, as a father. Um, whatever it might be, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm better at those things when I study the Book of Mormon every day.

[00:33:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mike, when you played that soundbite, what was your hope?

What did you want your kids to hear?

[00:33:35] Mike Lindsay: I have, I teach the juniors and seniors and I want them to have a testimony of the Book of Mormon. I want them to have that, that feel of that strength. And I have wonderful, wonderful youth. I mean, they're fantastic. I have like 27 or 28 in my class and I love them dearly.

And that's what I want. I want them to have that strength. Cause I don't, I mean, obviously life is different now than when I was a teenager, but. The things they're going through, I know are tough. They tell me about them all the time. Um, Jen can tell you, she's the Young Women's President in our ward. She deals with them all the time.

And I just want them to have that, that strength, feel of that strength and have that, um, almost like a safe space. It's like I can go there and I know Heavenly Father will speak to me and the Holy Ghost will speak to me as I study the Book of Mormon. Because I think we all need that in our life.

[00:34:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and, and just coming off of your own story and experience where when you read the Book of Mormon, you said you felt cradled and that is a beautiful way to describe what the spirit is like and what it, what it did for you and unsuspecting you.

You didn't even know what the spirit was and here you're having this moment. And so what a powerful witness to those kids that you get to teach seminary to that it worked for you and it works, it can work for them. That it can cradle you and not, and I think of cradling as being protected. I got is such a cool imagery that reading the Book of Mormon really does protect us.

The spirit protects us. So Mike, thanks. I appreciate you sharing that. Jenny, talk to me about it from your perspective.

[00:35:16] Jennifer Lindsay: Um, from my perspective, I feel like when I studied the Book of Mormon and I'm in it every day, it, um, I think it immerses me. And the things that matter most, because I tend to, I love to do everything, right?

I have lots of hobbies. I love to do all these little things and the spirit will really direct me to what really is important and put, you know, away those things that just don't matter.

[00:35:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Absolutely. Well, and. To add to both of your witnesses about the Book of Mormon, I will share my own personal experience.

When I was in junior high, I had a Sunday school teacher challenge us to read the Book of Mormon every day. I don't know why it mattered. I don't know what they said, but I took the challenge and I had a Book of Mormon by my bed and I'd read a verse. Just a verse before I went to bed, I wasn't real good at it.

That's probably why I didn't know Christ came to America till I was in the MTC. But I did read every night. And I will tell you this, the part that says you can be immunized against the evils of the day. Even the gripping plague of pornography and other mind numbing addictions. That is true. Um, for me, I was, I was exposed to pornography at a young age.

I saw a lot of naughty pictures and I don't know what it was, but I knew when I saw it, that it wasn't right. And reading the book of Mormon every day helped me. To not go back and look at those pictures. And they were easy to look at because my friend's dad had a bunch of magazines and I can't even imagine how the kids are dealing with it today because it's just on your phones.

And I will be a witness that reading the Book of Mormon every day helped me to overcome that addiction. So it really does work. It's powerful. And going back to what you guys said, it is revelation from God. And the unlearned, the unlearned was able to translate it. And it is true. It is so awesome. So President Nelson promised that if we study the Book of Mormon every day, and we just talked about, we're going to be immunized against the evils of our day.

So in the next segment, we're going to discover what some of those evils are. We'll do that next.

Segment 4

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[00:37:42] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Modern prophets have told us that one of the greatest values of the Book of Mormon is that it exposes the enemies of Christ. Well, second Nephi chapter 28 exposes the enemy of Christ. Satan, but the come follow me manual states the Book of Mormon is quote, a book that exposes Satan's lies. So let's turn to second Nephi chapter 28 and we are going to.

Mark our scriptures up. So make sure you have something to mark your scriptures with. And we're going to expose Satan and elder Stevenson in his October 2019 conference talk called Satan, the father of lies and the great deceiver. And we are going to see that true in this chapter. Okay. So you guys, there's so many of Satan's tactics.

In fact, that's what I have written at the top of my page. Of chapter 28, all the pages that are chapter 28, I just wrote Satan's tactics, Satan's tactics, because they are real and they are fierce and we better be aware of them, right? You want to know how the enemy is going to operate. I mean, I'm not a military person, but I'm guessing.

If I was going to go to war, I'd want to know everything I could about the enemy. And that's what the Book of Mormon does for us. It gives us so much here. So as you two were reading this, were there any tactics that stood out to you or anything that you were like, Oh, I've seen that before.

[00:38:57] Mike Lindsay: In verse, uh, second Nephi chapter 28, verse five.

Um, and they deny the power of God, the Holy One of Israel. And they say unto the people, hearken unto us and hear ye our precept, for behold, there is no God today for the Lord and the Redeemer hath done his work and he has given his power unto men. Oh yeah. Tell me why you marked that one. Well, I think we, we hear that a lot.

Um, I feel, I feel like we've heard that it's more prevalent in, in. society now that, why do we, why is there is no God? Why, why do we have religion? Why do we need religion? Why do we need to go to church? I've had friends who I, who are members, were members of the church who have, who have made that decision that they don't need to do this anymore.

Um, so I, I just think that's, that's one of his. Tactics is, and it's, I always find it's kind of ironic because there's probably is nobody knows the existence of God, probably more than Satan. Right? So tricks is try to convince people. God doesn't exist when he knows he does.

[00:40:04] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Mike, that's so interesting that you brought that up because then go to verse 22 because he's like, not only does no God exist, look what else he's telling you doesn't exist.

And tell me what your thoughts are on this. So verse 22 says, behold others, he flattereth away and telleth them there is no hell. And he saith unto them, I am no devil for there is none. What does he have to gain by telling him there's no hell or no devil? Wouldn't he want the credit? Wouldn't he want to be like, I am king.

I am real. What, why would he want them to know? No, none of that even exists. There's no God and there's no hell or no devil. What are your thoughts?

[00:40:38] Mike Lindsay: Part of me thinks if there's, if people think there's no, no hell or no devil, then there's no consequences.

[00:40:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, okay. Hold on. I'm writing that next to that. No consequences.

[00:40:50] Mike Lindsay: It's because it's kind of the eat, drink and be merry, you know? It's kind of that old, that old precept is. Um, you know, if there, if there's no devil, then what? What does it matter? You know? Lie a little, you know, Yeah. Steal a little. It doesn't, it doesn't matter 'cause there's no consequences.

[00:41:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, that's good.

Well, and then look back in 22. 'cause then he says, and thus he whisper in their ears. That one always strikes me, because I don't think of safe. I don't think Satan whispers. I always thought he was just this loud, crazy, screaming, ranting, raving. But this really paints him in a different light. He whispers in their ears until he grasps them with his awful chains.

For once there is no deliverance. And Mike, going back to your verse, verse eight is the one where it says, eat, drink and be merry. Lie a little, take sin a little, do a little bit. There's no consequences. No big deal. That really hit me hard.

[00:41:46] Mike Lindsay: Yeah. And then in verse a says, and he will justify and committing a little sin.

[00:41:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.

[00:41:52] Mike Lindsay: You know, that one always says, cause it is, I mean, if you commit, if you lie a little, It's easier to lie a little bit more.

[00:42:01] Jennifer Lindsay: Well, and I think that's one of Satan's tactics too. It's like, well, you already screwed up. Yeah. Look what kind of, look what kind of idiot you are. You are just, you're not okay and you're not going to be saved. So you might as well. Might as well go all the way. He might as well lie again. You might as well just cheat off that exam again. He might as well, whatever it is that he tells you.

[00:42:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And I think when it comes to committing little sins, I think it's different for everybody. And you could call out all the different areas in the church.

Where we probably should watch ourselves and I think it's individual. So this might be a good time for us to just take a step back and maybe look at our lives and where are we committing just a little sin and where could we be doing a little better? And if it's, that's what's interesting, committing a little sin. It's a bigger deal than we think.

[00:42:51] Mike Lindsay: Oh, absolutely.

[00:42:53] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Hmm. Now I'm thinking about all sorts of things with that verse. That is good. Okay. Keep going. What else you got

[00:42:59] Jennifer Lindsay: in verse 26? It says, hearken, hearken if into the precepts of men and deny the power of God and the gift of the Holy ghost.

[00:43:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ooh. Why'd you mark that?

[00:43:10] Jennifer Lindsay: Because we see it. Right? I mean, it's like, well, I can be a good Christian and not go to church. I don't have to go to church to be a good Christian. I can live a good life and do whatever I want. I can listen to people here on earth and not listen to God or the Holy Ghost.

[00:43:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You have to deny the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Oh, how sad. Right. Wow. There's so many in here.

[00:43:37] Mike Lindsay: I think in the same vein, verse six of chapter 28, Behold, hearken ye unto my precept. They shall say there is a miracle wrought by the hand of the Lord, believe it not for this day He is not a God of miracles. He hath done his work.

[00:43:53] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mm hmm.

[00:43:55] Mike Lindsay: I do think you see that, right? It's like well the miracles were in the, uh, They ended when, when, when Christ was crucified. There weren't any more miracles after that. But we see him, we see him every day. Can I go walk out on water? No, but we, there's, there's little miracles or big miracles in our, in our own life. They're obviously very personal to each other, but I testify they're, they're there.

They're happening all the time.

[00:44:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So awesome. All the time. Go, go with verse 20. This was interesting for behold at that day he shall rage in the hearts of the children of men. I mean, at that day we've learned in Isaiah wording, it means today at that day he shall rage in the hearts of the children of men and stir them up to anger against that which is good.

Oh, if that doesn't scream the world we live in right now, right? That word rage makes me so uncomfortable. I hate it. I don't like it either. I know. But then look at 21. This is interesting, and others he will pacify. I mean, Jenny, what do you immediately think of when you hear the word pacify?

[00:45:00] Jennifer Lindsay: A pacifier. My, my son had one.

He loved it.

[00:45:04] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And what did you use a pacifier for? What, what are they? What do they do?

[00:45:09] Jennifer Lindsay: Sometimes as a mom, you just need it at the end of the day. Here, here's your puppy. Just take it. Okay. It was his mute button. It was his little mute button.

[00:45:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh, that's perfect for this verse. So look at this. Others he will give a mute button to, others he will pacify and lull them.

I mean, there's that word lull. I mean, think of that. Did you ever lull your baby to sleep? Right? What do you imagine when you hear, when you, I mean, what did you do to lull your baby to sleep? What did that require you to do?

[00:45:37] Jennifer Lindsay: You hold them a little tight and you rock them back and forth. Maybe have a little song, put the pacifier in, give him a little silky on his face.

[00:45:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Right? Yes. Now, can you imagine Satan is doing that to us? He's pacifying us and lulling us away into carnal security that and having a say all is well in Zion. They're there. They're like when a baby's crying, they're there all as well. It's okay. It's okay. And this is thus, the devil cheated their souls and lead them away carefully down to hell.

Wow.

[00:46:11] Jennifer Lindsay: Yeah. I mean, so this is so interesting that we're reading this because I remember I had a grandmother who would say, you know, if you swim on Sunday, you're going to drown. And I thought, why would she say that? And I'm like, no, I don't think so. I don't think so. What I think he would do for me personally is that he would make it the best day ever, right?

It's the perfect temperature outside and all the people I love are around me and I'm having the best day ever and he's lulling me away. into carnal security, right? And he's like, see, I told you it's not that big of a deal. You didn't look, you didn't drown. It was awesome. Don't be silly. It's the best day ever.

You should do it again.

[00:46:58] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh. You're right. That's a great example. Jen. Great example. Yeah. Oh, these verses are just filled. In fact, if you go through here, you're going to see the word woe often. And we've learned that this is a Hebraism. It's called a woe oracle. And so pay attention to these woes, especially in verse 15, we have three woes in a row.

Which is a superlative. It means the most woe or destruction. Verse 15 says, Oh, the wise and the learned and the rich that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts. And all those who preach false doctrines and all those who commit whoredoms and pervert the right way of the Lord. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, that's the most you could woe them.

Woe be unto them, sayeth the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell. Ooh, heavy, we have another woe in 16. We have woes in 24, 25, 26, 27, 28. Then again in verse 32, pay attention to these woes and they're very disconcerting. Because then you look at yourself, am I in one of these woe versus with this, is this woe Oracle being spoken to me in verse 24, therefore, woe be unto them that is at ease in Zion.

25, woe be unto them that crieth all is well. And you shared 26, 27, woe be unto him that saith, we have not received and we need no more. Isn't that interesting? Speaking of scripture. 28 and in fine woe unto all those who tremble and are angry because of the truth of God. Boy, do we see that for behold, he that is built upon the rock receive with it with gladness and he that is built upon a sandy foundation, tremble if lest he fall.

And that word rock is another name or a moniker for the Savior. He that is built upon Christ receive with it with gladness. And he that has built upon a sandy foundation tremble with lest shall fall. And I've always thought that was so fascinating, especially the song. Wise man built his house upon a rock.

And now I'm realizing, Oh, The wise man built his house upon Christ forever. I was like, how would you build a house on a rock? That seems real, real hard. Of course I choose the sand way easier, but that's, that's the symbolism there. Like the wise man built his house upon a rock and that is going to be so much more sturdy.

So gosh, look at this is chapter 28 really does expose any other thoughts you have. Anything else you want to add? And then we'll read a quote.

[00:49:32] Mike Lindsay: I guess, and this is just a thought, it kind of doesn't apply, but it was in verse 12 of it is because of pride and because of false teachers and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted and their churches are lifted up because of pride, because of pride, they are puffed up.

I always, I always struggle with that, the, the, the concept there sometimes, because I, growing up here, you know, I have a family who goes to other churches, and I think other churches are wonderful. There's good people everywhere. Um, and I, I think sometimes, sometimes I hear that, you know, kind of directed towards all other churches except ours.

And I don't really think that's what it's directed towards. I agree. And I, I, sometimes Jen can attest, like sometimes when we're in like a meeting and someone starts talking that way, I, I, I just, I, I seize up and my, uh, I, I, I start to cringe a little bit. Yeah.

[00:50:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, in fact, Mike do this. Cause I agree with you completely.

Look back at that verse and read it again. Only this time within the context of our own religion.

[00:50:38] Mike Lindsay: Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, because of pride and because of false teachers and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted. And their churches are lifted up because of pride. They are puffed up. Yeah. I mean, that absolutely can apply inwardly as well.

[00:50:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, absolutely. I mean, how many times have you known people and it says right there, like, but they're not their own church, aren't they though? I mean, are they teaching in such a way that they're kind of like, follow me, come to my class. I'm the better teacher. Whatever it is, it's really fascinating that it's not focused or centered on Christ.

And that is, that's what it has to be. No matter who you are, no matter what religion you belong to, you can, you need to find Christ. And, and I've had a dear family member who's left the church. Okay. Leave the church, but don't leave Jesus. Like go to the Baptist church. Just please stay with Christ. That's the key.

And so Mike, I'm grateful you brought that up because I think first 12 is just as applicable to our Sunday chapels as it is to any other church. Absolutely. Yeah. So powerful. Here. This is a great quote. I want us to read this. It is from elder Stevenson's conference talk that I referenced earlier, and here's what he has to say about Satan and what we've talked about today.

And Mike, can you read that?

[00:51:50] Mike Lindsay: He has always pretended to be something that he is not. He always attempts to hide who he truly is. He claims that obedience will make your life miserable and that it will rob you of happiness. Can you think of some of his ploys to deceive? For instance, he disguises the destructive consequences of illicit drugs or drinking and instead suggests that it will bring pleasure.

He immerses us in the various negative elements that can exist in social media, including debilitating comparisons and idealized reality. In addition, he camouflages other dark, harmful content found online, such as pornography. Blatant attacks on others through cyberbullying and sowing misinformation to cause doubt and fear in our hearts and minds.

Cunningly, he whispers, just follow me and you will surely be happy.

[00:52:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Okay, you two. So here's my question. I just thought of this. Since you teach seminary, And Jenny, you are with the young women. What do you want your kids to know about Satan? What's your message?

[00:52:55] Mike Lindsay: So the one, and I've, I've preached this throughout, I've given talks in this is the whole, um, the debilitating comparisons and idealized reality.

I just think that is so harmful. It's so harmful that we see, we see that so much. Um, I particularly see, and I, I try to convey that it's, you're, you're in high school, you're dealing with class ranks. It's hugely competitive. A lot of, a lot of my students are, are athletes, so they're trying to earn playing time or, or, you know, earn scholarships or whatever.

Heavenly Fathers playing is not like that, that, that is not, there is plenty of room for all of us. Um, I always say you're not, I'm not compared to Jen, I'm not compared to Elder Stevenson. I'm compared to who I was yesterday. And that's my only goal is to be better than I was yesterday. And that hopefully convey that to them as well.

You're not competing with this person sitting next to you in seminary class, you're competing with yourself.

[00:53:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh yeah,

[00:53:55] Mike Lindsay: I remember one of the first, one of the first days I was teaching seminary, the first that we, we, I walked to the front of the building where it has the, the fire code, like the maximum capacity.

And I can't remember what the number was of how many people can be there, but I was like, This does not apply to the Celestial Kingdom. There is room for all of us. There is no fire marshal in the Celestial Kingdom. There is plenty of room for all of you. Let's help each other to get there. We don't have to bring each other down.

We don't have to compare ourselves to each other. There's plenty of room for all of us to get there, and we don't want to be there alone.

[00:54:27] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. You're totally right. In fact, it makes me think of when I was teaching my students the word of wisdom. The thought came, you keep the word of wisdom. So you're not a faster runner than the other guy.

You keep the word of wisdom. So you're a faster runner than you were yesterday. And that's what you just taught. Mike, I don't, I only have to be better than I was yesterday. That's the key to all of this. Why we keep commandments is we're not trying to beat anybody out. We're just trying to make ourselves better.

Oh, that's so good. Thank you for sharing that. What about you, Jen? What do you want them to know?

[00:54:56] Jennifer Lindsay: Well, I think Again, we were talking about this a little bit last night, um, Satan's not going to come out and you're not going to, you know, do drugs or start drinking, you know, alcohol just right then and there it's the little things.

And I think that with this generation of kids, just breaking free from your devices and things that will for you. Into Satan's hands and to be very, very, very careful about everything you put into your body, what you see, what you hear, what you, um, put in your mouth, what you take in always because Satan, he is there.

And like you said, he whispers just like the Holy ghost. So it can be confusing. It can be very confusing,

[00:55:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: but the feelings associated with it. Are so different than right. Mike's experience with the spirit being cradled. Yeah,

[00:55:57] Jennifer Lindsay: that's right. That is right. Awesome.

[00:56:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Awesome. To both of you. Okay, so here's what we'll do then.

In the next segment we're gonna read some verses that pretty much sum up everything we've talked about, all of our answers combined. If heavenly Father and Jesus Christ wanted us to know one thing about Satan or his tactics, this is what they're gonna teach us and we'll learn about that next.

Segment 5

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[00:56:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We know that Satan is the great deceiver and he is the liar. In fact, there is a lie that he's going to tell us in second Nephi chapter 28 verse six. Let's go to verse six. And Mike, I'm gonna have you read it cause you already brought this up and this is cool. Here's the lie. And then I'm going to show you a rebuttal.

So go ahead and read this lie.

[00:56:47] Mike Lindsay: Second Nephi chapter 28 verse six, behold, hearken ye unto my precept. If they shall say there is a miracle wrought by the hand of the Lord. Believe it not for this day. He is not a God of miracles. He has done his work.

[00:57:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right, so let's read God's rebuttal to this. There's actually two and Mike, you already read one.

It was second Nephi chapter 27 verse 3 and you shared this where God says, I am God. I am a God of miracles. Let's add another rebuttal. Right? To the side. Moroni chapter seven verses 35 through 37. So let's go there. Moroni chapter seven. And Jenny, will you read that when we get there?

[00:57:24] Jennifer Lindsay: Sure. And now my beloved brethren, is this be the case that these things are true, which I have spoken unto you and God will show unto you with power and great glory at the last day that they are true, and if they are true, has the day of miracles ceased, or have angels ceased to appear unto the children of men?

Or, has he withheld the power of the Holy Ghost from them? Or, will he Turn the page, sorry. So long as time shall last, or the earth shall stand, Or, there shall be one man upon the face thereof to be saved. Behold, I say unto you, Nay. For it is by faith that miracles are wrought, and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men.

Wherefore, if these things have ceased, woe be unto the children of men, for it is because of their unbelief. And all is vain.

[00:58:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Wow. Why do you say wow?

[00:58:28] Jennifer Lindsay: Here's that. Whoa, again, right? We'll be into the children of men. So if we don't see miracles anymore And if we can't feel the Holy Ghost, and if we can't feel the power of the Holy Ghost as well, then it's because of us and we're not in a good place.

[00:58:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and Mike, you said this, a lot of people think miracles ended with Jesus. Why did you say that? Tell me your thoughts. Cause I think you're right. I think

[00:59:02] Mike Lindsay: it's a good question. I hadn't really thought. I kind of. I think my thought is we read about the, in the new Testament, we read about the miracles that Jesus performed.

I mean, obviously there were some that, that kind of happened with the, the apostles after, but I guess, I guess the better of saying is once the, once the apostles all died, that's kind of what stopped. But, you know, and I think why, I guess, I mean, one of the things I read as we prepare this is, what is it? God is, God is the great I am, not the great I was.

[00:59:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: No, that's awesome. I like that.

[00:59:36] Mike Lindsay: It's um, and it's one of those things that really appealed to me as I, as I learned more about the church was why would God love the people back, you know, at the time of Christ more than us that never, that never really sat well with me.

Um, so that was just one of those things that really appealed to me is, yeah, there are miracles today. There are apostles today. There is a prophet today. Um, and it just, to me, like it says, it's the eternal nature of God. He loves his children today, just as much as he loved them back then. And so those miracles, same thing with miracles.

They're, those are appearing today. I mean, we've all seen them in all of our lives. They might not be. These big grand, grandiose things that we read of in the New Testament, but they're still big and grandiose in our own lives.

[01:00:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes. I want to talk about this because I agree with you. It's in fact, I was thinking of, well, actually I was thinking last year when we were talking about New Testament, there's so many awesome big miracles and they're all written in the New Testament and you read these and you think.

Well, nobody's, no one's lowering their friend through a roof so they can be touched to all of a sudden be healed and walk off their bed. You know? I mean, you don't, you don't see that as often as what it seems like to us. And I had this like aha moment where I thought, I wonder if the authors decided to put the big miracles in because the big miracles do increase our faith.

They do help our faith. And they thought. Yeah. The little miracles we won't put in because those happen all the time every day. It might have just seemed so normal, but I like how you said, Mike, it is the normal everyday miracles that are produced because of our faith. And there are the really big miracles too, but it's the little miracles that matter.

Those start to build up to enhance our faith. How am I saying this? Like create my foundation of miracles. My foundation is based on all the little tiny miracles. So let's just talk about really quickly, what are some of the little miracles in your life that have helped build your foundation?

[01:01:39] Jennifer Lindsay: So it floods a lot here in Houston, a lot.

And in 2017, we had hurricane Harvey. Everyone talks about that one. Um, our home was, was spared, thankfully. Um, just, you know, every place was affected during Harvey. And from that, I think I got a little PTSD from that. I felt like we were inside and it rained forever. Like we were here for months and years in my head going back to that.

Cause it was just. I think it was five days, right?

[01:02:12] Mike Lindsay: I think it was more than that, but yeah,

[01:02:13] Jennifer Lindsay: it was. Yes. So fast forward two years after that in 2019, there is a storm, a Melda and a Melda was just supposed to be this little when we never say that either. Cause that will

[01:02:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: jinx you.

[01:02:31] Jennifer Lindsay: Yes, no little storms in Houston.

No little storms. Um, and it was raining pretty bad. And with Harvey, the water came up to probably like halfway up our driveway. And then it would, and it just went back and it did that a couple of times and we were fine. But this time the water came into our garage and we had like an inch before it would have gone into our home.

And I remember we were putting stuff, trying to put stuff up and trying to get things to the second floor. And all of us were having a little panic, a lot of a panic. And so we knelt as a family and we prayed. Each of us. Individually, we prayed together and I thought, and then the rains completely went away.

Right. And there was this calm in our home and I was calm. And I thought the miracle at first was the water went away. And I was like, well, how was that fair? I bet a lot of people whose homes got flooded. I bet they prayed for a miracle too, but looking at it. I wasn't scared. I was not frightened. I was not at all worried.

There was this calm and this peace within me saying everything is going to be all right. That was a miracle.

[01:04:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That was a miracle. And I'm so, as you were telling your story, I had the exact thought thought that you addressed, which was what about all the other people who prayed? That was so well said, Jenny.

You're right. The miracle was that you were calm. Thank you for pointing out that small miracle that built as part of your foundation. Whoa. That's actually huge now. That is so cool. It's a huge one. It's a huge one.

[01:04:34] Jennifer Lindsay: The prayer prayer is real and he listens and he loves always

[01:04:42] Tammy Uzelac Hall: perfection. What about you, Mike?

[01:04:48] Mike Lindsay: Um, well, I think, I think there's, you know, I, I look at the, the small miracles that frankly led us together. I mean, there was, you know, that was, I mean, you can even go back further. You know, I, I joke, I, I mean, I graduated from BYU single. Wow. Okay. Right there. Yeah. No, I always joke. They didn't, they wouldn't send me my diploma until, until I got married.

But, um, you know, just the little, the little, the not little, I mean the big things in our lives that led us together, um, you know, to start our family, to be sealed forever. It, it, um, cause I, I, I was what, 31, I think when we got married. And, um, I was just waiting for the right one. And you know, and she came along the first time and I guess I wasn't ready.

And so, or I wasn't. And so it happened to me again.

[01:05:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Listen, the fact that any of us are getting together with anybody is a pure miracle, for sure. So hard. Okay. Well, I want us to go into this miracle because, and all of this is coming off the last segment where we talked about Satan, because anybody who feels like they have been tricked by Satan or that they are, when we were reading his tactics, if you're like, Oh, uh huh, that's me.

Or you've experienced that there is the miracle of all miracles. And this is the message that our heavenly father in Jesus Christ have for you. Let's go to second Nephi chapter 26. And we're just going to look at these verses and you guys already shared them. So it's so perfect. You did this second Nephi chapter 26.

And we just want to look at verses 22 through 25, highlight those and these verses. It is the greatest miracle of all. So 22 gives us a little context. It says, and there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil. So it's talking about all of the negative things about the Satan, the founder of murder and works and darkness.

Yay. And he leaded them by the neck with flax and cord until he binded them with his strong cords forever. Oh, Mark flax and cord. Can we just for a second, flaxen is. What the crop we take where we get linen from very fine, very delicate. And so you look at piece of that that you grab out of the field and you're like, I could break that easy and you totally could, but you take enough of those strands and you put them together and it turns into the strongest flaxen cord that you cannot break them.

So that's what's so beautiful about that. The imagery of that verse, a flaxen cord is like linen. But now here we go. We're going to read verses 23 through 25. The greatest miracle, the greatest rebuttal we have to all of the things that we've read about Satan. And after we read these, I just want to know your quick thoughts.

I will read verses 23 through 25, and when we're done, I just want you to tell me what your immediate reaction or thought was with these verses. Why would this be the greatest miracle? For behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you that the Lord God worketh not in darkness. He doeth not anything save it be for the benefit of the world.

For he loveth the world, even that he layeth down his own life, that he may draw all men unto him. Wherefore he commandeth none. That they shall not partake of his salvation. Behold, death. He cry unto any saying, depart from me. Behold, I say unto you, nay, but he sayeth. Come unto me, all Y ends of the earth.

Buy milk and honey without money and without price. Go. Why would this be the greatest miracle of all?

[01:08:28] Jennifer Lindsay: Because he loves us. He loves us. He loves the world.

[01:08:34] Mike Lindsay: I like the end of 24, it says he commandeth none that they shall not partake of his salvation. It's like, it's not just he commandeth. I like that.

That's such a powerful word. And it's not, he could have just said, you know, everyone can partake of the salvation, but he doesn't. He says he commandeth none that they shall not partake. It's a double negative, but to partake of his salvation. I just, it's that, that this reading that this time, that part came very powerful to me.

[01:09:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Fantastic. Awesome. Both of you. Yeah. This right here, what you just said is why Our savior, Jesus Christ, he, and what he does for us and the love he has for us is the greatest miracle of all. And the invitation to come unto him, I just think it's so powerful. No matter how far you've wandered, no matter what tactic Satan has gotten you with, none of that matters because miracles haven't ceased.

And the miracle of his love. Is the one we can absolutely count on. And the metaphor for milk and honey is beautifully appropriate right here. Here is some of nature's most desirable foods, and it symbolizes that life's most desirable gifts are freely given. How cool is that? If you've ever wondered what was the deal with milk and honey, that's what we're talking about right there.

So thank you to both of you for your thoughts. Okay. So in the next segment, then we're going to discuss One more miraculous and marvelous and wonder of wonderful things that the savior and our heavenly parents have done for us. Coming up next,

Segment 6

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[01:10:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I have a picture to show you too, and I want you to describe to the listeners what you see.

[01:10:20] Jennifer Lindsay: Stairs.

[01:10:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Stairs. I took them. It's my house. I'm not a professional. Okay. I'm not a professional photographer. Yeah. Stairs. How many steps do you see? Can you count those?

[01:10:32] Jennifer Lindsay: 15 or 16. Yeah.

[01:10:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yep. Absolutely. My question for you and you have a child is this.

If you have kids, what skills does a baby need in order to be able to navigate the stairs? What have they had to do before they can do stairs? Thanks. Crawl. Mm hmm.

[01:10:55] Mike Lindsay: Probably get over some fear.

[01:10:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ooh, I like that. For sure. That's good. Yeah. I think for my daughter, it's funny. One time my dad was babysitting my daughter and I came back home and he said to me, did you know that Lily can do the stairs?

And I'm like, dad, she can't. She's never done the stairs. I can't even imagine how she got to the bottom. She's livin well, but I was like, uh, she hasn't ever done the stairs, dad. I mean, just practicing going up one down one step had never even happened. So yeah, maybe they also have to be pretty, um, flexible, I guess, if they fall down the stairs.

Okay. I have a couple of questions about these stairs, because here I want you to imagine something and the picture turned out perfect for this, because if the top of that stairway represented God's knowledge, cause it's a good question. If the very top represented God's knowledge, where do you think you currently are in the stairs?

What level would you be on?

[01:11:53] Mike Lindsay: Do they go back even further or are we at the bottom? ,

[01:11:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I knew you were gonna say that. Can we go back some more? Nope. You've gotta pick a stair. Where are you? ?

[01:12:04] Jennifer Lindsay: I think I'm right there at number three.

[01:12:06] Mike Lindsay: Yeah, I think that's, yeah, I, I was gonna say three or four, somewhere in there.

I, oh, I can't be, I'm behind her. So probably two or three. .

[01:12:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You're behind Jenny. That's awesome. Okay. There is something so cool that God teaches us that has to do with these stairs. Let's go into second Nephi chapter 28 verse 30. This is a great verse of scripture. And when we get there, Mike, will you please read verse 30 for us?

Second Nephi chapter 28 verse 30. And as you read this, I want us to apply this verse to the picture of the stairs. Here we go.

[01:12:41] Mike Lindsay: For behold, thus sayeth the Lord God, I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept. Here a little and there a little and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom for unto him that receiveth, I will give more.

And from them that shall say we have enough from then shall be taken away even that which they have.

[01:13:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Apply that verse to our picture. What's he teaching us?

[01:13:16] Mike Lindsay: I think he only asks us to take one stair at a time. We don't have to jump to the third stair. We could take each stair at a time, but. It also seems to say at the end, if we kind of stop on a stair, he might take that make

[01:13:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh yeah. You know what? You're right, Mike. That is a great application.

Thank you. Okay. So this is interesting because there's all these questions about this idea of stairs. Um, one of them, I looked these questions cause there was this way to teach this in the come follow me manual. And so I, I decided to take pictures of my stairs. It gave other suggestions, but in my mind I'm imagining just line upon line, step upon step.

Precept upon precept. And I like how he says here a little and there a little. When it comes to my knowledge, I think that's how it works. Like I get a little bit here and a little bit there. God's never given me a ton because I couldn't handle it. Right. And so I, I mean, I joke that I didn't know Christ came to America until I was in the MTC.

But there's a lot I've learned throughout my life. It's just bit by bit by bit. There's a great quote by Richard G. Scott, and he talks to us about God's goodness in giving us what we're ready for. And Mike, can you read this for us?

[01:14:28] Mike Lindsay: As you walk to the boundary of your understanding into the twilight of uncertainty, exercising faith, you will be led to find solutions you would not obtain otherwise.

With even your strongest faith, God will not always reward you immediately according to your desires. Rather, God will respond with what in His eternal plan is best for you, when it will yield the greatest advantage. Be thankful that sometimes God lets you struggle for a long time before that answer comes.

That causes your faith to increase and your character to grow.

[01:15:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Did anything come into your mind where that has happened? Where God has let you struggle? And then the answer came and it was worth it.

[01:15:12] Mike Lindsay: I, so Jen, Jen and I were obviously talking about this, you know, this week and particularly last night.

And this kind of relates a little bit. And I, there was a, there was a part that I wasn't, I wasn't necessarily sure if I was prepared to share, but as we've talked about it today, I feel there's been enough. Um, little miracles that I feel it's, it's. It's okay. And that was my struggle with pornography. Um, that's something I struggled with.

I was exposed at a very young age and it's something that I struggled with, um, really throughout my life. And, you know, through the help of some good bishops, state presidents, um, the addiction recovery program, therapists. Whatever it might be, I started to understand that a little bit more because for the longest time, I thought I was broken.

There was something wrong with me and it couldn't be fixed. And it was just kind of one of those things I accepted that this was who I am and there's nothing I can really do about it. And there's, there's obviously a lot of, a lot along that path that, that helped get me to where I am today. And I remember one specific example, as I was going through this, this process and, um, a good state president just checked in with me.

He just says, Hey, come talk to me. So he asked me how I was doing. And I told him I was doing good, but I feel, I kind of felt like, how, how can God forgive me? How can God love me? I'm such a flawed individual. And I, I kind of, I think when he asked me that I was expecting kind of a pat on the back and arm around my shoulder.

It's okay. You'll be fine. And I, his response was direct, but it's what I needed to hear. And he, he kind of, um, scolded isn't the right word. Um, he basically was like telling me I'm selling short the atonement. I don't fully understand it and I'm not allowing it to work in my life. Um, obviously, you know, with through the atonement, Jesus died for our sins, but there was more than that.

Um, and he. He died so I can feel whole again. And he let me know that I wasn't, I was, I was doing a disservice to the atonement by not letting that work in my life. And that kind of changed my perspective, perspective on that. And it allowed me to progress forward to know that. I'm not broken. Um, I'm not, I mean, I am flawed, but for other reasons, but, and that helps me to understand God's love.

And that, that it talks about in that quote, um, it's like, God will, will not always reward you immediately. And I remember one of the first pieces of advice I got was, was to, to pray more. And I was like, it's kind of taken aback by that. I was like, no one has prayed harder for this than me. I promise you that.

And, um, but it was, it was, it was, it was, I had to work for it. I had to work really hard for it. Um, and, uh, it was worth it. It was worth it. I don't want to do it again, but it was worth it.

[01:19:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Mike, thank you. Thank you so much. Oh, um, I feel you. I do. And I get it. And it is work for sure. But that message to shortchange the atonement of Jesus Christ could not be more real.

And I will just second witness what Mike said, because the savior loves us. And you know what? You're not broken. That's what I think is so powerful is, is he, I just think he breaks the bands of not just broke the bands of death. He broke the bands of everything and heals our woundedness. That's what's so beautiful about our savior Jesus Christ in all areas, in all aspects.

So I really appreciate you being willing to share that. That is the message that is the most, what you shared, Mike, that is the wonder of wonders. The atonement of Jesus Christ, and you are a witness of that. So thank you. So good. Jenny, anything you want to add? I'd love to hear your testimony. I'd love to hear your testimony or experience with, with your spouse.

If there's anything that the atonement's done for you through this experience.

[01:20:27] Jennifer Lindsay: I think that, um, I think that this, when, when we went through this together, it could have gone, you know, a couple of different ways. But we chose to put God with us and to put our savior, Jesus Christ.

And what that did was that brought us closer together too, because I've seen a lot of people that the results has been way different, that it's ended in divorce or fighting or other things. And, and I didn't want that, but, um, I, I just remember like praying and thinking about all of this and I thought, well, what is, what is my part?

And I remember going on my knees and asking, what do I, what is my part here? And I think the answer that I got was just stay the course. Just keep, keep doing the things, but it didn't happen. It didn't happen like that. It just said, keep, keep going the course. And I'm like, well, I know I want a specific answer.

How is this all going to end? I did, you know, I wanted that and I wanted to know what my role was. And again, it's just keep the course, keep the course, keep going to church, keep reading your scriptures, keep going to the temple. And those are the Sunday School answers, but that's really what strengthened me through this all.

And I feel that brought us closer together.

[01:22:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I can tell. And the Sunday School answers work. Well, and then, and I think it was 2nd Nephi 28, I mean, you are the antithesis of verse 26. It says, we'll be unto them that hearkeneth to the precepts of men. And you didn't. And it says, and deny it the power of God and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

And you didn't. There's no other way. There's no other explanation than the Holy Ghost saying, stay the course. That is awesome. And look, the good that came of that. Wow. You're a great example. I can't think of two better people to lead the youth of Zion in Houston, Texas than you two. Oh my gosh. That was awesome.

That's awesome. That's it. That's the end of our discussion. You two. That was so fantastic. Thank you. Okay. So gather your thoughts and what is your takeaway from today's discussion? Is there anything that you're going to remember or anything that struck you as we were discussing? And it's usually, you know, just like a.

Two sentence little thing and just look back through your notes. And I have all these notes that I've written down. So I'm just gonna find the ones that struck out to me that you guys shared.

[01:23:25] Mike Lindsay: I think a pet project of mine. I love studying farewell addresses. I think we can just learn a lot from those. And this is kind of Nephi's farewell address. I mean, he dies shortly thereafter. Um, I just, I, I've just kind of made that a personal, I love, I remember just, we, you know, elder Ballard's from just a few months ago. And, you know, there's some that I've just really stuck with me as I, and I've, I, someday when I'm retired and have more time, I want to go compile these cause I, I've, I've And I just, I feel like there's, this is, I just like reading those.

What a cool idea. They just kind of know, I think they, they get an inkling. I think Elder Ballard probably had some sort of an inkling and his, his final address was just very powerful. I think of that one. And I think the same with Nephi. And that's the thing that struck me with this is I've always, like I said, I've always struggled with Isaiah, but if in Nephi's final address, he felt the need.

To quote Isaiah so much, maybe I should spend a little bit more time and not just fast forward those few pages. Sorry, that was a long answer to what you asked for, but

[01:24:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: that was a great answer to what I asked for. Thank you. I think you're absolutely right. And why he chose to say this at the very end and why he chose these specific Isaiah chapters to end with.

Spot on, Mike. That's great. What about you, Jenny?

[01:24:47] Jennifer Lindsay: I loved, um, the rebuttal from second Nephi 28 verse five, and how it's in Moroni 7 35 through 37, that God is gonna do what he is gonna do. He is never gonna pull away miracles. He's never gonna pull away his love. And if I feel that that's happening, then I need to do my part and I need to seek him directly.

And do my part and find him again.

[01:25:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Awesome. Awesome. Take away my, my takeaway. First one is Jenny. When you said what the Holy Ghost taught you. And then I love how you marked it. And I put it even next to my scripture that everybody is his favorite. I thought that was so cool. I've never considered that verse that way before.

And I should have, like, I'd love that you taught me that. That was just so excellent. So thank you so much for doing that. And then, um, I just love the way you explained the Holy Ghost to us, Mike, that it cradled you and that you felt that moment when you read the Book of Mormon. What a great way to describe how you feel the Holy Ghost.

So thank you to both of you. That was an awesome discussion of those chapters. Thank you for your bravery. I know you were so scared, but look at this. Look what happened. This was so cool. The spirit was so strong tonight. I just love you both. Thank you.

[01:26:15] Mike Lindsay: Thank you.

[01:26:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, Tammy. Okay. What was your takeaway?

Go and join our Facebook group or Instagram and share what you've learned. And you can even ask questions throughout the week. At the end of the week on a Saturday, we usually post a question that has to do with this specific lesson. So comment on the post that relates to it and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on LDS living.

com slash Sunday on Monday. And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, because it's where we're going to have the links to the references that we use. As well as a transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday study group is a Deseret Bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living.

It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today are incredible and faithful study group participants. Our Jennifer and Mike Lindsay, and you can find more information about these friends at LDS living dot com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.

Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember Second Nephi 26 verse 24. He loveth the world and you are God's favorite.