The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Who has experienced the feeling of anxiety before? Or probably everyone's raising their hand, right? Okay. Do you know what the cause of your anxiety was or is, is it just one thing or is it many things all rolled up into one that caused you a very anxious moment? Because today we get to study Jacob chapters one through four.

And given the situation of the people that Jacob presides over, Ooh, he has anxiety and he is going to be very open about the cause of his anxiety. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week.

And we really dig into your scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now. If you're new to our study group, follow the link in our description. And it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study. Just like my friend Chantel Devette and her dad.

Hello, friends. Okay. Now here's the best thing about our study group. It's my favorite thing is that each week we're joined by two of my friends. So it's always a little bit different. And today it is a lot a bit different. And I am so excited to introduce you to Adria Taylor and Mark Taylor. Hello, you two.

[00:01:09] Adria Taylor: Hi, Tammy.

[00:01:10] Mark Taylor: Hey, there.

[00:01:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Hey, tell everybody how you know each other.

[00:01:15] Mark Taylor: Well, so we actually grew up together in a very small town in Canada. And naturally people think, well, you must have been high school sweethearts. That wasn't the case at all. Actually, I was friends with her little brothers. Um, however, I did ask her out two days after she got home from her mission.

And, uh, as they say, the rest is history.

Oh,

we live right now in the Atlanta, Georgia area. Uh, a nice bedroom created a community called Milton. We have four amazing kids. Uh, we have a son serving a mission in Costa Rica. We have a daughter who is a senior in high school and she's getting ready to go to BYU this fall in Provo.

And then we have a 16 year old daughter and a 12 year old son.

[00:02:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So you're in the thick of it.

[00:02:04] Mark Taylor: We'll talk about the anxiety stuff in a little bit, yes.

[00:02:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I'm sure you will. Oh, that's great. Uh, Adria, what did you think when he asked you out?

[00:02:12] Adria Taylor: Um, well, at first I thought, Oh, great. I'm home for my mission for two days and already parents are setting me up with their kids because his dad was in the state presidency and released me.

And so I thought for sure this is what was happening again. And it took me a few days to realize he actually was interested and it wasn't his parents.

[00:02:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's so great. How long did you date before you got married?

[00:02:35] Mark Taylor: Well, You need some context. I've known her since I was five years old. So, you know, we didn't need a lot of time.

We, look, when we went down to BYU a couple weeks later, I knew I was going to marry her. I told her, I told my parents I was going to marry her after our first date. A couple months, we got engaged, we got married a few months later. Start to finish, it was pretty quick.

[00:03:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yum. All right. Hey, nice. I'll applaud that.

You bet. And look, you've been married ever since. How many years now? What's your anniversary coming up? Well, we just had it in December, 21 years. 22,

[00:03:13] Adria Taylor: 21, 20. Yeah, this'll be 22.

[00:03:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: If I had a track with sounds, I would play applause right there. That is awesome. Congratulations. That's so cool. You too. Oh my gosh.

Well, I think today's going to be such a fun discussion. You guys are coming with so much history. It's And life story and experience, and I think it's going to be really cool to apply them to these chapters. So everyone listening, if you want to know more about my guests, you can read their bios and see pictures of them, which are at our show notes.

You can find those at LDS living. com slash Sunday on Monday. So grab your scriptures and something to mark your scriptures with. And let's dig into Jacob chapters one through four. Okay. You two right out of the gates. Here's our first question. What did the Holy ghost teach you as you studied these chapters in Jacob?

[00:04:00] Adria Taylor: Okay, so I think this is one of the hardest questions you ask your guests each week. Cause there's so much content. Um, but the thing that came to mind for me was Jacob 4. 13. Um, it reads for the spirit speaketh the truth and lieth not, wherefore it speaketh of things as they really are and of things as they really will be.

Wherefore, these things are manifested unto us plainly for the salvation of our souls. I feel like the world we live in, there is just so much confusion surrounding truth. You hear people talking about, Oh, you need to live your truth, whatever that is. Um, others say that truth is relative. Some even say there's no such thing as truth.

Um, so I just really loved this verse that gave such a clear reminder that not only does truth exist, but that we must rely on the spirit to learn what the truth is and that the very salvation of our souls actually depends on it. I also wrote in the margins of my scriptures, a quote that I loved by President Nelson.

And it said, contrary to the doubts of some, there really is such a thing as right and wrong. There really is absolute truth, eternal truth. One of the plagues of our day is that too few people know where to turn for truth. And so it was just a reminder as well that We have a responsibility of, as members of the church, you know, we have the truth and we need to be the Lord's ambassadors in sharing it with the world.

[00:05:31] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I love what the Holy ghost taught you because as you were speaking, I wrote down, live your truth with a question mark. I like how you phrased that. Like we are told to live your truth and you be you. And sometimes that can be detrimental and hurt people's feelings. And. When I, I wrote live your truth, question mark, and then I wrote live God's truth.

And then the quote you shared, absolute truth. That was powerful because that comes from God. So wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. And for being the hardest question I asked, you answered it perfectly, Adria. That was great. Gosh. Okay. Mark, what did the Holy Ghost teach you?

[00:06:04] Mark Taylor: That's a tough act to follow. Um, for me, this was kind of a, uh, I guess a throwback to high school seminary, the old scripture mastery, Jacob 2, 18, before you seek for riches, seek ye for the kingdom of God.

And what led up to Jacob saying this. And, and again, context is important here. Uh, Jacob's always represented for me kind of this transition point in the book of Mormon, because he was the first prophet. That was not born in Jerusalem, that he had no familiarity whatsoever with the life they had lived while they were there.

So his perspective was one of living in the wilderness, traveling, family drama, living in the wilderness some more, more family drama. And now they seem to have found finally some degree of stability and prosperity. And things started to change in a hurry. I mean, we're only a generation or so away from when they left Jerusalem.

And here they are fighting some of the same temptations and the same tendencies that created those circumstances that necessitated them having to leave in the first place. And unlike the start of the Book of Mormon, where the status quo of the people was one of wickedness, this is really the first instance where we encounter the pride cycle from the starting point of humility and righteousness.

Uh, Jacob 2 verse 5, beginning to labor in sin. Um, two 13, he talked about how they, they gotten rich. They're wearing flashy clothes. They were thumbing their noses down with the people under them. Uh, that, that pride has started to creep in. So it, it showed me with stunning speed, how quickly a person or a people can have that creep in.

And you start to seek for riches. You start to break off in the cast and you start to look down at those around you. And it also shows the stunning speed at which the Lord and his prophets just want to stop that dead in its tracks because they know how quickly that leads to a path of destruction.

[00:08:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I appreciate that you chose this because here's my question for you as a dad, as a man who's providing for his family, how easy is it?

I mean this verse right here, how instructive is it to those of us who are trying to seek for riches? I mean, talk to me about that.

[00:08:22] Mark Taylor: Yeah, so this is, this is always something of a tricky topic. You know, what does, you know, specifically for me as the provider, should my desire to, you know, to provide and to have wealth and, and, and, you know, do what I need to do to provide for my family.

Um, you know, Tammy, if you really read the scriptures a lot, start to finish, doesn't matter which standard work and you look at how the Lord feels about money. Bro, it, it, it just ain't that good. It's not. I mean, it's not associated with very many positive things at all. And I have to remind myself and, um, even folks that I visit with remind them of that a little bit.

It's not that the Lord doesn't want us to prosper and find fulfillment in our work and feel good as a provider for our families. But frankly, I, he could care less if we're rich. It's just not important to him. It just doesn't matter long term. And I also feel that, you know, sometimes for me, when I hear, we live in a pretty affluent area, uh, up here in the Northern suburbs of Atlanta.

And for the most part, you know, the, the people we associate with, the members of our ward, they're amazing. They would give you the shirt off their back. Um, sometimes when I hear people say things like, I've been so blessed. The Lord has blessed me so much. I, I get a little bit leash because I'm not so sure if he necessarily bless you because he wants you to be rich.

I, I think, okay, you're, you're talented. You work super hard. Um, you've done well with your education, you've found a, or with your profession, you've found something unique that you've been able to exploit. That's all wonderful. Uh, and I appreciate the fact they're coming from a position of, of humility and acknowledging the roles that others have played, but I'm not so sure if it's, you know, God necessarily that wanted you to attain all this, this wealth.

Um, now what you do is that he, he certainly, he certainly does care about, um, so you know, it can cut both ways, but in this instance, it did not take long for the richest to start to really corrupt the righteousness of the people.

[00:10:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, your answer was just spot on because my friends and I have this conversation often.

And when people say the Lord has blessed me, we always think, well, what about poor people then? Does the Lord not care about blessing them? And when you said, I think the Lord blesses him. It's what they do with it. That matters. I went right back to the verse you shared because it's so powerful when it says, but before you seek for riches, he's not even saying don't seek for riches.

He's just saying, if you're going to do it, just make sure you seek the kingdom of God first. And then I think that that is what will guide how you spend your riches or what you do with your riches. So that was a great answer, Mark. Thank you both of you. Adria, Mark, you nailed it. That was what a wonderful thing to learn from the Holy Ghost.

And I think as you guys were sharing that, I felt that too. And I felt that what you were sharing was truth. So that was awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Well, we are going to have a great discussion and we get to just dive into these words that Jacob has to say to the people. And so we're going to begin with that in the very next segment.

Segment 2

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[00:11:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Let's learn about Jacob because we want to know as much as we can about this person who's about to speak to these people. There are a couple of verses of scripture. They're going to teach us about him. First and foremost, Jacob is the brother of Nephi. We have established that. And Jacob was given some instruction by his brother to write on some plates.

But before we even get into that, let's just learn about Jacob. So Adria, will you please read first Nephi chapter 18, verse seven, and we're going to learn a little bit about Jacob. Go ahead.

[00:12:16] Adria Taylor: And now my father had begat two sons in the wilderness. The elder was called Jacob and the younger Joseph.

[00:12:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you.

And Mark set this up beautifully for us. He was born in the wilderness. He's the oldest of the two sons born in the wilderness. Okay. Here's something else about him. Mark, will you please read first Nephi chapter 18, verse 19.

[00:12:37] Mark Taylor: And Jacob and Joseph also being young, having need of much nourishment were agreed because of the afflictions of their mother.

[00:12:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Now Mark, I'm going to have you go to another verse of scripture, and then I want you to sum up what these two verses teach us about Jacob. Turn to 2 Nephi chapter 2, and we're going to read verses 1 and 2.

[00:13:01] Mark Taylor: And now, Jacob, I speak unto you. Thou art my firstborn in the days of my tribulation in the wilderness.

And, behold, in thy childhood thou hast suffered afflictions and much sorrow, because of the rudeness of thy brethren. Nevertheless, Jacob, my firstborn in the wilderness, thou knowest the greatness of God, and he shall consecrate thine afflictions for thy gain.

[00:13:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, how would you sum up his childhood based on those verses you read?

[00:13:28] Mark Taylor: It was not easy. Uh, that, that, that's pretty clear. Um, again, he was born in the wilderness. He never had any kind of stability to begin with. And layer on top of that, just the endless family drama and having to see some of the things that he saw, it, it had to have been incredibly difficult.

[00:13:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Boy, absolutely.

In fact, I'm kind of thinking about this now for the very first time. His upbringing, what, what effect does that have on him as an adult and the way he's going to now minister to the people? What do you think? Are you connecting anything there?

[00:14:02] Mark Taylor: I think he's one that could be very effective at empathy.

[00:14:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Love that.

[00:14:11] Mark Taylor: And very effective at understanding the pain that comes with family challenges, because he saw it from the, from darn near the day he was born.

[00:14:26] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Absolutely. I like that. I think it's going to be important for us to remember that as we go into the words of Jacob. I've just now considered that for the first time, but it, I think you're right.

It does make him so empathetic. You actually can feel the empathy come out of his words. Now, when we later on, when we read some of his words, you're totally right. Mark, there's so much empathy in his words.

[00:14:49] Adria Taylor: Well, it's kind of funny because on my mission, You served a mission, Tammy, right?

[00:14:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.

[00:14:55] Adria Taylor: You saw your first area, first companion.

They sometimes call your mom, you're their baby, you begin your mission there. I had a bit of a rough companion. My trainer was not so good to me. And so in my mission scriptures, I actually crossed out the rudeness of thy brethren and put the rudeness of thy trainer. And it was actually like really comforting though.

That next verse that said. The Lord shall consecrate thine afflictions for thy gain. And that kind of changed my perspective in my training. It didn't get easier necessarily, but at least I recognized that I could learn from this. And I really like how Mark said empathy because it did prepare me for a lot of other experiences I would have with companions later in my mission.

And I was so much more loving and understanding of them and their situations because of what I have experienced early on in my mission.

[00:15:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, absolutely. Okay. In fact, right next to those verses, right next to that, consecrate that afflictions for they gain. I am actually going to put as a leader that is so cool how you just connected it.

Yeah. I think the gain then, yeah, the afflictions are going to help him as a leader and as the high priest. Here's what else we know about him. Let's turn to second Nephi chapter 10 verse three. And I will go ahead and read that because we're just gonna read the beginning. It says, wherefore, as I said unto you that it must needs be expedient that Christ for in the last night and angel spake unto me that this should be his name.

I think it's amazing how he enjoyed the visitation of angels and he knew Christ's name, but not only did he know his name, Adria, will you please read second Nephi chapter 11 verses two and three.

[00:16:36] Adria Taylor: Yes, so, verses two and three?

[00:16:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes, please.

[00:16:39] Adria Taylor: And now I, Nephi, write more of the words of Isaiah, for my soul delighteth in his words, for I will liken his words unto my people, and I will send them forth unto all my children, for he barely saw my Redeemer, even as I have seen him.

And my brother Jacob also has seen him, as I have seen him.

[00:16:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You pause right there. What did we just learn that Jacob has seen Jesus? Yeah. So cool. So he knows his name. Now he he's seen him. All of this then plays into the whole purpose and reason for Jacob writing on the plates. Let's go back to Jacob. Now we're going to go to Jacob chapter one, verse two, and in Jacob chapter one, verse two, Jacob says that he who is Nephi gave me Jacob a commandment that I should write upon these plates a few of the things which I consider to be most precious.

So that's what his instruction is. Just occupy the plates with things that are most precious. And here is what Jacob's going to tell us about what he's going to write on these plates. Turn to verse four, Jacob chapter one, verse four. And Mark, will you please read verse four for us?

[00:17:43] Mark Taylor: Yes. And if there were preaching which was sacred or revelation, which was great or prophesying that I should engrave in the heads of them upon these plates and touch upon them as much as it were possible for Christ's sake and for the sake of our people.

[00:17:58] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Everything right there that he's going to engrave in anything that's sacred, great, or prophesying. And I like how at the end he says, and if it were possible, he's going to do it for Christ's sake. And so this is the setup for everything he's going to put on scripture. And then we get to hear what he's going to write about how he feels about this responsibility to write the plates and to lead the people.

And we're going to go to Jacob chapter one. We're going to read verses seven and eight. Adria, will you read those for us, please?

[00:18:27] Adria Taylor: Yes. Wherefore, we labor diligently among our people that we might persuade them to come unto Christ and partake of the goodness of God, that they might enter into his rest, lest by any means he should swear in his wrath.

That they should not enter in, as in the provocation in the days of temptation, while the children of Israel were in the wilderness. Wherefore we would to God that we could persuade all men not to rebel against God, to provoke him to anger, but that all men would believe in Christ, and view his death, and suffer his cross, and bear the shame of the world.

Wherefore, I, Jacob, take it upon me to fulfill the commandment of my brother, Nephi.

[00:19:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Big responsibility he feels in those two verses. Let's look at verse eight and there's one specific one that I want us to highlight in verse eight highlight and under nine where he says to suffer his cross. Now I'm just curious to know any thoughts on what you think that means or what it could mean to you to suffer his cross.

In addition, he's saying to view his death, suffer his cross and bear the shame of the world.

[00:19:33] Adria Taylor: I guess I just think of whatever he asks us to do at the time, you know, like thinking of the man, Simon, who was asked to bear his cross for him, literally, you know, he asks us to do things to help him in his work and sometimes they feel really heavy.

But yeah, that's just the first thing that came to my mind, whatever he asked us to do.

[00:19:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well that was a great answer. Did you read my notes? You probably, how did you know? This is so cool because Robert L. Millett writes about this verse and this is exactly what he says. To suffer the cross of Christ is to be willing to bear the burdens of Christian discipleship right there.

I wrote that to the side of my scriptures to bear the burden of Christian discipleship. And now I want to know what that looks like. What is a burden of Christian discipleship? Because I think every one of us can relate to this verse. What are some thoughts that come to mind when you hear that idea of the burden of a Christian discipleship?

[00:20:33] Mark Taylor: It could be interpreted, I think, a lot of ways. I'm struggling a little bit with that word burden just because living a life of discipleship, it is a blessing to us and it's, it's surely a blessing to others. But it does not mean it's, it's easy. Uh, our lives are supposed to be a life patterned after the Savior, and that's a life that's filled with, with service and with sacrifice and with thinking outside yourself.

And, uh, foregoing the things of the world, it's not easy. So maybe that's some of the, you know, air quotes, burden of discipleship.

[00:21:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I like how you said air quotes. Cause I agree when I heard that word and I read it, it was sort of like a, Ooh, can we say that? What is it? A burden? Yeah. Well, I'm wondering if you'd be willing to answer this, what of all the callings you've ever held in the church or on any position of authority you've ever had, what has been the most burdensome?

What has been the hardest to bear?

[00:21:37] Mark Taylor: You know, it's funny. We, we, I mean, we both had every calling under the sun. We both served in leadership. We both served in primary. Um, and they've all come with their unique challenges and, and unique opportunities. Part of, for me, the, the burden of some of the leadership callings is just seeing those you love struggle and wondering how you can help them and, and bring them along and.

Um, improve their, their situation. Uh, on the other hand, uh, when we were in grad school, Tammy, um, I mean, we were in our mid to late twenties. We had three kids, four and under, we were in a very transient ward in Charlottesville, Virginia with a lot of students, a lot of graduate students. And three kids, four and under, I was called to work in the nursery.

Oh, sure. And our church was at three 30 in the afternoon. And this is back with three, so come five 30. And again, this is a super young ward. We had like 40 kids in that nursery and they were all hungry and tired crying and wanting their moms. And that, you know, that was kind of hard sometimes. That was not the funnest calling every, uh, every Sunday.

What about you?

[00:22:54] Adria Taylor: No. Well, the first one that came to my mind for sure was mother. You know, it's just the most wonderful, but all encompassing callings, you know, other ones I've had, I've known I'm just going to put in my all for an allotted period of time, but it will come to an end and you know, what's going to at some point.

And you can sometimes kind of feel when that's coming, but this one is never ending. And so it's one that you have to continually. Work at and develop yourself like you've never got it figured out. At least I haven't maybe I'm the only one but

[00:23:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: yeah You're the only one

[00:23:32] Adria Taylor: It was the first one that every child brings different You know, and blessings and everything.

So yeah. Motherhood for sure.

[00:23:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. I just want to pause for a second here, Adria, because what I like that you just did is you likened the scriptures unto yourself. Like you took a real life application, a scenario in your own life that so many listening are agreeing or shaking their heads. Yes, absolutely.

And so that was powerful. Thank you for doing that. Well, now I'm thinking too, it almost seems like every conference we have talks addressing this. Basically talking about the willingness to bear the burden of Christian discipleship. That's probably which every conference talk is about just how to do it.

And You know, for me, for sure, my answer to that question would be scouting. My husband was made Scoutmaster and I was his assistant to Scoutmaster. We don't have boys. We have all girls. It's a world I know nothing about. And suddenly I'm at the store buying patches and we're doing, you know, the, the derbies, I mean, just crazy stuff.

And. You do it because you hope that there's going to be blessings in doing it and there absolutely is for sure there is. And I, I look at this verse and here's all Jacob wants people to do. Jacob and his brother, they just want people, they're persuading all men to not rebel against God, to not provoke him to anger and that they, we believe in Christ.

Isn't that interesting right there that all men would believe in Christ. And if you believe in Christ, you're going to view his death, suffer his cross and bear the shame of the world. That's what he's hoping he can get all of these people to do. And so in his attempt to do that, he is going to then talk to these people and we're going to maybe jump into this idea of why he has so much anxiety.

So we're going to do that next.

Segment 3

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[00:25:26] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Have either one of you ever had a wound and a wound that maybe couldn't heal or took a long time to heal? Anything like that. I'm reminded four years ago when I was recording this episode, I had just cut the top of my foot and I cut the tendon on my foot and I had to have it surgery like two days later and I could be non weight bearing for two weeks.

And so my foot was up above my heart and I had to record the podcast on my back. My friends came to my house and they sat by my bed. Let me put the microphone. We jimmied it up so that I could talk into it. That was a crazy wound. It took way longer. They told me two weeks and I'm like, I'll be on my feet in a day.

And he said, no, I know you will be, you can't be, it will take two weeks before you can even put any weight on it. So I want to know, do you guys have any wounds like that?

[00:26:12] Mark Taylor: Yeah, of course. Um, yeah, I've got, I've also got a physical one. Um, Want to hear a story?

[00:26:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes, I do.

[00:26:19] Mark Taylor: This is, this is pretty, uh, pretty crazy.

Um, so 2020, that was a very lousy year for me. It was lousy year for everybody I know, but, um, I woke up, um, one day in June and my right kidney was misbehaving. It started with a kidney stone, uh, which had to be, um, you know, removed through surgery. And if you can believe it, the kidney stone was, it was a hangnail compared to what was coming down.

Um, and covered a much bigger issue with that kidney. And so I then had another surgery, a fairly serious, invasive one to try to repair it. And all seemed to have gone well. Uh, I went home from the hospital the next day. Um, a few days later, I had a major complication during recovery that darn near killed.

Um, like literally a moment, the night I I'm on the floor. I'm telling Idra. Like, you know where the will is, right? And I was serious. You know, I was in so much pain. So they did some more tests and they found out what was wrong. And then I had kind of an emergency procedure to stabilize my worsening condition, and I ended up in the hospital at that point as well.

When I came home, I had a, uh, a stent in my ureter, which is fairly common whenever you have a kidney issue. I also had a JP drain, a Jackson Kratt drain coming out of my side. And then my personal favorites, a bladder catheter was a lovely little bag that I carried around. And all the, these doctors, they didn't know where this was going.

They didn't know what the end of the story looked like. They didn't know if that kidney would heal up, if I would require more surgery, if they would just eventually have to take the kidney out. And the message was basically, let's wait and see what happens now at the time. I mean, I'm 39 years old, so I'm otherwise healthy.

I'm young. I'm very active. Yeah. And I looked at myself in the mirror with all this hardware sticking out of me and looking just awful. I'd lost like 25 pounds and I just broke down. It was, yeah, I was in a very, very dark place, not just physically, but emotionally and mentally as well. Um, and it was rough for a few weeks there.

Uh, but lo and behold, a few weeks later, that, that, Kidney got its act together and started to fill the measure of its creation. And the doctors were quite shocked at the turn of events and bit by bit, they started taking the stuff out of me that they put in, uh, that the drain came out. A few weeks later, I was able to get the catheter out.

And then about six weeks later, they finally pulled that stent out and I was healed and that ordeal from start to finish was about five months from what I thought was the kidney stone. And. You know, while I grew and I learned and it helped me to reprioritize things in my life, uh, you know, frankly, I, I really don't care to ever go through that one.

That was, that was not a lot of, that was my physical wound.

[00:29:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I'm sorry. Yuck. That must've been so scary. Adria, were you so scared?

[00:29:30] Adria Taylor: Oh, I was terrified, especially that night. It was really, really scary.

[00:29:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Holy moly. Yeah. Okay. That's a good wound story. That's crazy. Yeah. Now you're alive. You're fine. You can tell the story.

All right. What about you, Adria?

[00:29:48] Adria Taylor: Not really. I haven't had any like big physical wound stories. I used to think that, you know, I had a trump card on him for giving birth to four kids, but that experience made me think, maybe not, at least something good came out of my pain. Hey, nothing really good out of that.

[00:30:04] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I have heard that giving birth is equivalent to a kidney stone. I've never had a kidney stone, but I hear it's close. I

[00:30:10] Mark Taylor: was there. I don't envy you. I think you, uh, you paid your dues Aid,

[00:30:14] Adria Taylor: but again, you get a good blessing at the end. So, you know.

[00:30:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Okay. I wanted us to be thinking of this idea of wounds because Jacob uses that term, but it's not necessarily for a flesh wound.

So let's get into where he uses this term and we're going to talk about this. So here's the situation that Jacob is addressing. We are going to go into Jacob chapter two and we're going to read verses five through seven. Because we want to know what situation he's in that's causing him anxiety. Here we go.

Jacob chapter two, verses five through seven. And Mark, can you read those verses for us?

[00:30:50] Mark Taylor: Yes. Jacob two, five through seven. But behold, hearken ye unto me, and know that by the help of the all powerful Creator of heaven and earth I can tell you concerning your thoughts how that ye are beginning to labor in sin, which sin appeareth very abominable unto me, yea, and abominable unto God.

Yea, it grieveth my soul, and causeth me to shrink with shame before the presence of my Maker, that I must testify unto you concerning the weakness of your hearts. And also agreed with me that I must use so much boldness of speech concerning you, before your wives and your children, many of whose feelings are exceedingly tender and chaste and delicate before God, which thing is pleasing unto God.

[00:31:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right. Are you feeling anxiety for Jacob?

[00:31:37] Mark Taylor: Yes.

[00:31:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: This is big. Okay. So he gets done saying that. And then Mark, read verse eight for us. You're our wounded soldier here.

[00:31:47] Mark Taylor: And it's supposed to be that they have come up hither to hear the pleasing word of God, the word which healeth the wounded soul.

[00:31:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay.

Let's highlight that. They have come up to hear the word of God, the word which healeth the wounded soul. And that struck me as I was reading it this time because I thought to myself, what are the words of God that have healed my wounded soul? And I have one specific experience that I'm going to share.

But I asked you to, to think about that. Has there ever been a time in your life where the word of God healed your wounded soul? Because Mark, I love how you described everything that went into healing your kidney. You talked about having stints, a catheter. You had to just wait it out to see what happens.

You were in a really dark place. I mean, there were actual things that could make you better for a wounded soul. There's no stint for that or a catheter. And so I want to know, are there any words or talks or anything you could share that has healed your wounded soul?

[00:32:46] Mark Taylor: Sure. I'll, I'll, I'll share something that I, I'll ask Adria to share as well.

Throughout that lovely ordeal, I mean, I was every bit as emotionally and mentally just wrecked as I was physically. Like I said, I, I went to a very, very dark place and there were, there were, there were,

[00:33:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Can I ask you real quick? I'm just curious. When you say you went to a very, very dark place, is it too personal to ask?

Like, what was that like? How dark that was?

[00:33:15] Mark Taylor: Oh, just, just, just super discouraging. Again, a few weeks earlier, I, we, we just gotten back from beach vacation. I'm an avid golfer. I play multiple times a week. I play basketball and all of a sudden I've got all these tubes and stuff coming out of me and I've, I've lost 25 pounds and I look 20 years older and I can hardly move.

It was incredibly discouraging. I didn't know when or if I would ever have that former. Um, so there, there were a lot of words that helped me. I, I was, uh, it's funny how the, the, these kinds of instances just bring you to your knees and I suddenly I was reading the scripture tons. I was listening to conference talks.

I was reading, I was soaking up every word I could, um, but also the words of others. Um, Adria is, is so talented with expounding scripture and just understanding the gospel, what it really means and the atonement. And there were so many times that she just flat out comforted me, uh, with the words that she offered and others as well, the Sunday when I was, uh, Really struck when I, again, they didn't really know what was going to happen.

Um, I asked our Bishop Rick, if the word could fast for me, cause it was fast Sunday. And that took a little bit of humility and I'm kind of a private person. I don't want to make a big deal of this, but I just felt I needed all the help I could get and, um, lots of people knew what was going on and they'd, you know, been bringing us meals and coming to visit.

And that night, uh, a good friend, member of the Bishop Rick came over with his family. And I just remember him looking me in the eye and saying, Mark, everyone is praying for you and prayers work. God answers prayers. And those are some words that just brought me incredible comfort during that, uh, that time of need.

So it doesn't always have to be, uh, A prophet doesn't always have to be scripture. It can be your spouse. It can be your children. It can be a friend.

[00:35:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. I just have to say this because I am so grateful you pointed out. It doesn't always have to be a conference talk or scripture. In fact, if you turn to second Nephi, let me go there and show you the verse that proves what you just taught us, Mark second Nephi, and we're going to look at chapter 32 and it's verse three and in second Nephi chapter 32 verse three, it says this.

Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost. Wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, Feast upon the words of Christ. For behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do. Highlight the word angels. When you read that, you immediately think of like angels.

Well, of course, they're going to speak the words of Christ. But this word in Hebrew. It's spelled M A L A C H I M, and this word in Hebrew can actually mean messengers, anyone. It can mean a missionary. It can mean a bishop. It can mean any one of us that are prompted by the Holy Ghost to say something. So we become angels when we speak by the power of the Holy Ghost.

We speak the words of Christ and then Mark, you did that. You feasted upon the words of Christ that your friend said to you. And those words of Christ told you all things, what you should do. That is such a great story. Wow. Now, Adria, add, what do you have to add to that?

[00:36:42] Adria Taylor: Um, well, I have a totally different experience where mine was totally different than I expected.

I guess the scripture that impacted me. So a few years ago, our daughters had a sister at church who unfortunately said and did some hurtful things to them. And like Jacob was describing, it caused my children to kind of lose confidence in this person. And. It really pierced their hearts with some deep wounds.

It affected their desire to go to activities and church and of course hurt my heart deeply seeing them go through this. So I tried to talk to this sister, but it only seemed to make things worse. And after some time I realized, okay, an apology is not coming and change isn't coming. And so I need to try to figure out a way to heal these wounds with the help of our savior.

And so as I was going through the scriptures and conference talks. I happened upon Matthew 5, 43 to 44. And it says, but I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you and pray for them, which despitefully use you and persecute you. So hold on a minute. Like that was not what I was expecting to, to hear.

You know really hit my heart, but it did I just read them again and again And you know, I I read them multiple times before but now that they were actually applying to me They were so right. Oh, you know, I'd always thought oh those were other people but like No, I had to do this now. And I recognized, okay, like I have a role in this as well.

I might not be able to change someone else's actions, but I can change how I react to them. So it wasn't easy at first, but with the Lord's help, I began to look for ways to love and serve the sister and things didn't change overnight. But as I served her, I was able to see so much good in her. And start giving her the benefit of the doubt.

And we began a friendship and then the process of time, I was able to forgive her and to love her and my children as well. So through this experience, I learned that our savior is always there to help heal our wounds. But there's also a role we play in that. We can't just sit back and say, okay, come on, heal these things that are hard for me, but Um, but he does help us

[00:39:05] Mark Taylor: and it was, um, it was amazing for me to watch.

You know, it was a great example for me. I still remember coming home and you had, you just made bread. And one thing about Adria, this woman knows how to bake and she said she was going to take some bread over this lady. And I was like, Really? For her? Um, and after that she, there were so many other things that Adria went and did, helping her with her children.

It was amazing to watch Adria heal almost in real time with each successive act of service. Uh, and as you said Aditz. It has started to reciprocate. Like I, I feel like we're at the point where, um, it's almost water under the bridge.

[00:39:51] Adria Taylor: Yeah. And there's good in everybody. You know, sometimes we don't know why they do the things they do.

And that was such a good window for me to recognize that there's so much more to this wonderful sister than I had seen in those few instances.

[00:40:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow.

[00:40:07] Adria Taylor: She is really a friend now and I'm grateful for that.

[00:40:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I mean, Adria, your story is right in line with this quote that we have from Elder Neil Anderson and he talks about the wounded soul.

And why don't you go ahead and read it? This is exactly what you told us about.

[00:40:21] Adria Taylor: Never give up, however deep the wounds of your soul, whatever their source. Where ever or whenever they happen, and however short or long they persist, you are not meant to perish spiritually. You are meant to survive spiritually and blossom in your faith and trust in God.

God did not create our spirits to be independent of Him. Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, through the incalculable gift of the atonement, not only saves us from death and offers us through repentance, forgiveness for our sins, but he also stands ready to save us from the sorrows and pains of our wounded souls.

[00:40:58] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. I mean, you both are examples of that, the sorrow and pain of your wounded souls. And when I read this quote, I was drawn to my wound, my experience. And it was right after I got married, we had only been married a couple of months and they started, we got married in July and then in October of that same year was the anniversary of mom, Michelle's death.

And I did not know how I was going to handle that. Like, do I go? Cause they were all going to meet at the cemetery and let off balloons. And it was a big family party and I'd been going to all their family things. But for this, I just felt like I shouldn't go. Okay. I'm not supposed to be there. And so my brother in law called me and he said, what are you going to do on the anniversary of the death?

And I started crying. I'm like, I don't know, should I go? And he was so nice. He invited me. He's like, why don't we go to a movie? My wife and I will pick you up and we'll just go to a movie that night. And then Jim and the two girls can go down to this thing. And I remember driving to their house to go to the movie.

I was sobbing the whole drive because my heart was so broken. I think it was just this real grand realization that I'm not the mom, I'm the second mom, and this life isn't what I expected it to be. None of this turned out how I thought it would. And I thought I was handling it okay, I'd been into some therapy, but I think it like all just came at once and just flooded.

My mind and my heart. And it was just so happened that in that October general conference, right before this experience happened, Elder Wirthlin gave a talk called Sunday will come. It's one of his landmark talks. And this was the line that stood out to me. Sunday will come. Each of us will have our own Fridays.

Incidentally, this was a Friday that this was happening. So I was like, He wrote this for me. He knew I needed it. He says those days when the universe itself seems shattered and the shards of our world lie littered about us in pieces, we all will experience those broken times when it seems we can never be put together again.

We will all have our Fridays, but I testify to you in the name of one who conquered death, Sunday will come in the darkness of our sorrow, Sunday will come. And I think we all three. Share in that same experience. Like our Sundays came like as dark as you were Mark and as dark as you must have felt Adria having an enemy.

I think it's beautiful how we've all testified that our Sunday came and it came because of Jesus Christ because of promptings and the Holy Ghost. And I just think it's, it's beautiful. It really does work. The wounded soul can be healed. Isn't that awesome? Wow. So thank you. Thank you for sharing your experiences.

[00:43:27] Mark Taylor: You're welcome.

[00:43:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So good. All right. So in the next segment, we're going to dive in to what the cause of these wounds was and if they'll ever be able to be healed.

Segment 4

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[00:43:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We're going to go right into Jacob chapter two, verse nine, because this verse has a phrase in here or a description of what's going on that kind of just makes you super uncomfortable. I think at least it did for me. So I want to know if it made you guys as uncomfortable. We're going to go to Jacob chapter two, verse nine, and Adria, will you read that for us?

[00:44:03] Adria Taylor: Sure. Wherefore, it burdeneth my soul that I should be constrained because of the strict commandment which I received from God to admonish you according to your crimes, to enlarge the wounds of those who are already wounded, instead of consoling and healing their wounds. And those who have not been wounded, instead of feasting upon the pleasing word of God, have daggers placed to pierce their soul and wound their delicate minds.

[00:44:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Does that verse make you so uncomfortable? Yeah. Yeah. Especially those who have wounds, what's the part that makes you the most uncomfortable? There's a lot in that verse, but what I want to know from you, what makes you uncomfortable?

[00:44:43] Adria Taylor: The one I underlined was enlarging the wounds. Like I think of any time I've had a wound and that is not what I want to have happen.

Like you're waiting for it to close up and go away. Not be enlarged.

[00:44:54] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I know. And can you imagine the work it would take to literally go to somebody and enlarge their wound? I've had cuts open back up when I, you know, had a bandaid and I was washing dishes, but a real wound to have someone come and enlarge that for those who are already wounded.

Yeah. That's the one I thought that made me just blah, uncomfortable and he mark anything in that verse for you.

[00:45:17] Mark Taylor: I mean, having daggers placed to pierce their souls and wound their delicate minds. That's pretty. That's the.

[00:45:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It's some heavy wording, definitely. So I asked my guests to come prepared to discuss what is ailing these people.

I first said, if you could describe, if you could use adjectives to describe the wounds of these people or what's ailing them, I'm curious to know, did you come up with any words that overall sum up Jacob chapter two? Betrayed was the first one that came to my mind. That's a good one. Yes.

[00:45:51] Mark Taylor: Ignored.

[00:45:53] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Hold on.

I'm writing these down. Persecuted. Forgotten. Forgotten.

[00:46:00] Mark Taylor: Forgotten.

[00:46:02] Adria Taylor: Lonely, right?.

[00:46:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, yeah. I added so sad. I'm so sad for the people that are experiencing these wounds. So tell me what you marked. What is causing the wounds? What is ailing these people in this chapter? Tell me what you marked.

[00:46:26] Mark Taylor: So I marked a couple things in verse 13. And persecute your brethren because you suppose you're better than they.

[00:46:36] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ooh, why'd you mark that?

[00:46:38] Mark Taylor: Well, similarly, verse 20, he says, Have afflicted your neighbor and persecuted him because you were proud in your hearts. So I've noticed when studying this, and throughout the Book of Mormon, I've wondered what the pride cycle is. When does the Lord really bring down the hammer?

And it's, it seems to me that it's, it's often when you start to persecute the poor. If you want to get rich and forget him and destroy yourself, that's one thing that's not ideal. He's not happy about that either. But when you start to persecute the poor and the humble, you're in big trouble, either in this life or in the next.

[00:47:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That was powerful truth that you just taught. You're absolutely right. That's when I like how you said that's when God throws down the hammer and you brought up the word pride. You're going to find pride in verse 13, verse 16, verse 20, verse 22. That's a big thing that's causing a lot of the, the ailment here among these people in the wounds.

Yeah. The source of the wounds is pride. Amen. Keep going. What else did you mark you guys?

[00:47:46] Mark Taylor: I think it's hard for Jacob too, because again, his, his upbringing had been so rough that maybe, maybe he just so appreciated and valued the stability and prosperity they found in part because he had so little of it growing up.

And he's like, come on, like, don't mess this up, please. For spiritual reasons, for temporal reasons. Don't, don't go there.

[00:48:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You know, Mark, the fact that you just brought that up, it's really interesting to me because it's the first thing he mentions in verse 12 when he goes right into his speech. The first thing he says is, look, I see that you have been able to come into riches, gold, silver, precious, or I mean, that interesting is the first thing he addresses.

We have a lot of good stuff here and unfortunately because you're so abundant, you think you're better than everybody. That's how I'm, I'm interpreting him saying that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:48:40] Adria Taylor: So, some of the parts I underlined were in verse 31, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people.

And then 32, the cries of their fair daughters. 35, you've broken the hearts of your tender wives and lost the confidence of your children and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. Many hearts have died, pierced with deep wounds. Talk about three heavy, heavy verses.

[00:49:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Yeah. In fact, that's right where you get betrayal, isn't it?

[00:49:17] Adria Taylor: Yes. That's first. And that came to my mind because when I finished reading those, like, thankfully I have been blessed with great men in my life. My husband, my father, my father in law, they're all. Wonderful examples of disciples of Jesus Christ. But I have had several friends who have not had that experience and that describes how they have felt perfectly, how they and their children have felt.

Um, some of their wounds are so deep, they didn't know if they would ever heal and some haven't yet it's been many, many years. And they are still trying to find healing those lungs. And so boy, when I read those verses, I just immediately thought of those friends and just how hard that was for them.

[00:50:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Gosh.

Yeah. And your heart just breaks for these women. Right.

[00:50:07] Adria Taylor: And the, and their children, like it destroyed their kids, especially the ones that were teenagers at the time. It was really, really rough.

[00:50:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Well, and in verse 28, where it says, I, the Lord delight in the chastity of women and whoredoms are an abomination before me.

I mean, he's setting up what they've done and what these husbands are guilty of. Oh, brutal. And he keep going with more verses. What else you got? Anything else?

[00:50:35] Mark Taylor: So in 18 and 19, this is where I started, um, earlier in the podcast, before you seek for riches, seek you for the kingdom of God. After you've obtained a hope in Christ, You shall obtain riches.

So Jacob is speaking very specifically to these people right now that have riches. They were already rich. I worry sometimes that if people read this, myself included, you know, if you obtain a hope in Christ, you shall obtain riches. Well, that's, we have to be a little bit careful with that. Riches rarely mean of the temporal sort.

Again, in this case, very specific to that audience, they already were temporally rich, Well, we shouldn't conflate that with Temporal riches in our own lives. You talked about four people early earlier. Oh, we grew up in a very humble farming community. It used to be a little bit confusing for me as a kid when I would read stories in the enzyme about somebody struggling financially and they fast and pray and a magic envelope full of money would appear on the doorstep.

And it seemed like every month we would have a fast for rain. And instead of, not only we would not get rain, the farmers would get the crops hailed out. And these crops were just the salt of the earth, humble, faithful, tithing in, in, you know, in every way worthy of temporal blessings. But maybe their blessing was that all their kids.

We're married the temple maybe, or their, their children went on missions, or maybe their blessing will come in the next life. I, I just think it's, we have to be very careful, uh, with thinking that temporal riches come if we keep the commandments.

[00:52:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes. I think at times I've heard people refer to that as the prosperity gospel.

Yes. And if you do everything that's right, you're gonna be blessed with amazing riches. And then when something does come your way. You think, Oh, it's because I kept the commandments, but like you said, there's a lot of good commandment keeping people. In fact, what we can infer by reading in Jacob chapter two is all of these wives and daughters and children.

Those, they were covenant keeping people and yet their husbands were making some really poor choices. In fact, the wording in Jacob chapter two, looking at just 34 and 35, Oh, this one just breaks your heart. Adria, will you read those verses for us?

[00:53:05] Adria Taylor: Yes, 34 and 35. And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father Lehi, wherefore ye have known them before, and ye have come unto great condemnation, for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.

Behold ye have done greater iniquities our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children because of your bad examples before them, and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God, which cometh down against you, many hearts died, pierced with deep words.

[00:53:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That ending right there, pierced with deep wounds. We're going to go back to another quote from Neil Anderson because it's from a talk that's called Wounded and it was in the October 2018 Conference. And here's what he says about this idea of wounds. Mark, will you read this quote?

[00:54:01] Mark Taylor: Yes. Wounded Our wounds may come from a natural disaster or an unfortunate accident.

They may come from an unfaithful husband or wife, turning life upside down for a righteous spouse and children. The wounds may come from the darkness and gloom of depression, from an unanticipated illness, from the suffering or premature death of someone we love, from the sadness of a family member dismissing his or her faith, from the loneliness when circumstances do not bring an eternal companion.

Or from a hundred other heart wrenching, painful sorrows of the eye can't see, we each understand that difficulties are part of life, but when they come to us personally, they can take our breath away.

[00:54:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. I mean, both of your stories are great example of that. Just take your breath away. I'd like to know as you read that, did anything stand out to you in that quote?

[00:54:53] Mark Taylor: So one thing here, I mean, now that we're parents, we're raising our own children. We've had family members maybe not make the best choices. The part he said about the sadness of a family member dismissing his or her faith. That's been tough. It's been tough for us to see we, we've, we've both seen it, uh, with, you know, extended extended family members, um, you know, despite, uh, having wonderful parents and being raised in a pretty fortunate circumstances, it's just, it's just really, really hard to see the people you love the most, um, dismiss their fate like you said.

[00:55:37] Adria Taylor: Yeah. And one that stood out to me was how, again, just thinking back to my friends who've had An unfaithful husband and how it did just turn their family upside down. And unfortunately, most of my friends who've experienced this ended up leaving the church because it just was so hard and they connected so much of it to their temple marriage and their husband was supposed to be righteous priesthood holder, and sometimes the exercise, the priesthood unrighteously and held dominion over them with it.

And it just, it broke my heart even more to see. The long term effects that their husband's choices had on them and their kids. And I don't know when or if they'll come back. Um, I hope so, but those wounds are deep, deep, deep ones.

[00:56:31] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Adria, finish us out with this quote, because this is what elder Anderson then says next.

And I thought this was so perfect.

[00:56:39] Adria Taylor: No injustice, no persecution, no trial, no sadness, no heartache, no suffering, no wound, however deep. However wide, however painful, will be excluded from the comfort, peace, and lasting hope of Him whose open arms and whose wounded hands will welcome us back into His presence.

[00:57:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you.

[00:57:01] Adria Taylor: You know, that just made me think, maybe that's what it will take for them. Maybe it's going to take A literal hug from the savior for the, like, it's just caused me to tear up, to finally feel the relief from their wounds. Um, wow. That was really powerful.

[00:57:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I like how you said a literal hug from the savior.

It's a good way to describe when you come out of a depressive state, I think is, I know in my own experience when I have felt. Darkness, like you explained, Mark, and it's been one specific time in my life. The only thing that got me out of it was literally a, a hug from my heavenly father and from my savior.

And that came by way of, gosh, there's so many great analogies here with your story, Mark, but it came by way of just waiting it out. Yeah. And waiting to see what happens is, as you said, you had to wait to see what would happen. That's the only thing that got me through it was I was had to wait, but it did work and I had to wait as I continue to go to the temple, read my scriptures, say my prayers for sure.

[00:58:06] Mark Taylor: For me, this is really my, uh, my strong suit, Tammy.

[00:58:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You don't like to wait.

[00:58:12] Mark Taylor: Nope.

[00:58:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Me neither.

[00:58:15] Adria Taylor: You bring up a really good point though. Like the more I've experienced in life. The more waiting on the Lord has become a really sacred space for me. I am so glad that he has not answered my pleas right away because it draws me to him in ways that I don't think I would have been drawn to him if the answers had just come easily and you learn to see a side of him that you don't see just.

Um, you feel him sitting with you in your pain and that's, that's a powerful feeling to feel him sitting with you. And I love how you said you felt that hug. Like you feel that. I know it's not necessarily like he's right there giving me a hug, but it feels just like he is. And yeah, that waiting is a sacred space.

[00:59:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It is a sacred space. I'm going to give you a visual. This is kind of cool visual. I just recently learned in my Hebrew class. The word wait in Hebrew actually is defined as, it's an Aramaic word, and it's defined as twisting and creating a rope. Now, I want you to think about that for a second because you couldn't go to Home Depot, obviously, to buy yourself a rope.

If you were to create your own rope, you would have to wait for the crop to grow. And then dry out and then cut it down and take all those threads and slowly turn them into one thread and then take all those one threads, make more threads to create the rope that you're going to twist and braid. It is the most labor intensive process to make your own ham, homemade rope.

It's ridiculous. And so when I think about waiting, I'm very impatient. I don't, I might just be like, yeah, I'm gonna sit this one out. I don't think I can wait this long. I'm never going to make my own rope. And I look back on all the times in my life where I have really had to wait. I'm like, yeah, I would say as much time it was to take to make my own rope, that's about how long I had to wait.

And so this idea, a visual in my mind of just sitting there strand over strand, braiding, braiding, waiting, waiting, while knowing that the whole time the Lord is working things to my benefit. That's the blessing. That's where it all plays out. And so anyone who is a wounded soul, anyone who's in that space right now, just know as you're slowly braiding that, that rope, God's working everything out and he's absolutely going to hear your prayers and help you.

I believe that with all of my heart. I have such a testimony of that.

[01:00:45] Adria Taylor: Yeah, I'm for sure. Like I said, waiting is a sacred space for me and I love. What you said about the rope. I think if we had it our way, it would be a pretty thin rope. We might do a few twists here and there, but Art knows the thickness of the rope we need for things that are coming up ahead in our life.

That was what I thought as you're describing that, which knows how thick it needs to be. And we don't. So we just need to trust in him that he is helping us develop every strand that we need in that waiting to be prepared for whatever else comes our way. Cause I do, I do always come away feeling so much stronger than I did before.

It's a miracle to me. It's a miracle what the, the Lord should work in our lives that

[01:01:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: way. Oh, that's so good. Cause I'm imagining the Lord saying to me, another strand, Tammy, you're getting another strand, but I thought I was done

[01:01:39] Mark Taylor: and it's so easy to believe that and to preach it, but when it's, and you're actually in the moment, like, let's be serious, you want it to be over with this.

[01:01:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, you want to head over to the Home Depot and just buy it. I don't got time for this. And so here we have this, this people, these women, these children and their hearts are wounded. But I dare say there has to be a level of woundedness for the people that are causing the wounds. I think everybody in this scenario is wounded.

And so. And what I want us to talk about and think about is all of these wounds and then what Jacob has to teach his people. And so we'll cover that in the next segment.

Segment 5

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[01:02:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Let's turn to Jacob chapter one, verse five. This is the verse where we get to highlight the word that we've been setting this whole episode up on. Here we go. Adria, will you read that verse for us, please?

[01:02:41] Adria Taylor: Yes. For because of faith and great anxiety, it truly had been made manifest unto us concerning our people.

What things should happen unto them.

[01:02:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: There's that word. Let's circle anxiety here. He's saying he's got anxiety. Now he has actually told us he has anxiety. Even before this, we're going to go back to the first mention of Jacob having anxiety in second Nephi chapter six, verse three. Let's go there. We're going to circle that word.

We're gonna do a little anxiety scripture chain. So second Nephi chapter six, verse three, Mark, will you read that for us? This is Jacob speaking.

[01:03:17] Mark Taylor: Nevertheless, I speak unto you again, for I am desirous for the welfare of your souls. Yea, mine anxiety is great for you, and ye yourselves know that it ever has been.

For I have exhorted you with all diligence, and I have taught you the words of my Father, and I have spoken unto you concerning all things which are written from the creation of the world.

[01:03:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Next to that verse, let's put this reference, Jacob chapter two, verse three, and then we'll go there. And Adria, will you please read that for us?

[01:03:51] Adria Taylor: And ye yourselves know that I have hitherto been diligent in the office of my calling, and But I this day am weighed down with much more desire and anxiety for the welfare of your souls than I have hitherto been.

[01:04:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And to the outside of that, put the cross reference, Jacob chapter 4, verse 18. We'll go there, and Mark, will you read that verse for us?

[01:04:11] Mark Taylor: Behold, my beloved brethren, I will unfold this mystery unto you, if I do not by any means get shaken from my firmness in the Spirit and stumble because of my over anxiety for you.

[01:04:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. From those verses we read, what would you say is the root of Jacob's anxiety?

[01:04:29] Adria Taylor: He loves these people. I just feel like love is at the root of it.

He cares so deeply about them that this does just cause his soul such great anxiety to see them like this.

[01:04:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes. So much anxiety. Do either of you experience anxiety or have you had, do you have an experience with anxiety in your family or anyone?

[01:04:51] Mark Taylor: Oh, gee, Tammy, no, never. We have three teenagers, and we have a fourth in about two weeks.

Adria, why don't you go ahead and lead off?

[01:05:00] Adria Taylor: Yeah, as we were reading through those anxiety verses, I was like, Oh my goodness, this is so much how it feels to be a parent. Um, I find that I often feel like Jacob weighed down by all that anxiety for the welfare of my children's souls. Oh, yes. I stumble because of my over anxiety for them many, many times.

I make mistakes all the time because I'm just over anxious. I don't want them to make that mistake or do this or do that. Um, I just love looking up definitions for words from the Book of Mormon in the Webster's 1828 Dictionary. Nice job. Anxiety. I was like, what does it say anxiety is? And it defined it as concern or solicitude respecting some event, future or uncertain, which disturbs the mind and keeps it in a state of painful uneasiness.

And I thought, yeah, that pretty much sums it up. That's a painful uneasiness, disturbed mind, many sleepless nights. You know, thinking of things that my kids are involved in. And again, the motivation is so much love, just like Jacob was feeling. Um, and it's just so difficult to watch them make these choices that you just know are going to lead them to pain and sorrow.

Um, but what I have learned is that you can have a little bit of anxiety and that's okay, but. As long as there's not a fear involved, if that makes sense, because we can have confidence in the Lord. We can have confidence that he is aware of our kids or our loved ones, anyone that we have a stewardship over, um, that he, he knows them.

He loves them. He's aware of them. And I have to keep reminding myself of that when that anxiety starts to creep in, like, it's okay. It's normal for me to feel like this because I love them. But, there's a limit to how anxious I need to feel, because I can have confidence in the Lord and his ability to help.

My role is not to save them. That's his role. Um, my role is to lead them to the Savior so he can do that saving. And that does take a lot of the anxiety off my shoulders when I remember that he does the saving.

[01:07:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's a powerful witness of the Savior's role. In our lives, when we feel anxious, I had never considered before, as we were reading these verses in Jacob chapter one, verse five, when he says, because of faith and great anxiety, I guess I'd never considered you can have faith and be anxious.

And it's because of what you had said, Adria, that he loves his people. And he realizes at the end of the day, Jesus is going to have to do his job. It's going to have to be about the Savior's atonement. That's going to help these people. I'm just going to do what I can, because like you, I like how you said, I'm not their Savior.

I'm just here to help them and guide them to Jesus Christ. I think that's what that verse means now to me. I've just barely considered that faith and anxiety can exist and it's then being anxious, but then trusting that Jesus can take care of it. Oh, that was good.

[01:08:01] Mark Taylor: Maybe it's, it's the pressures of, Life.

So every family is different. Every, every couple's different. We live in primarily single income household and that responsibility in our home, in our cases with me, and I can sometimes feel heavy, uh, that responsibility to provide. And I, I know I'm not alone in feeling that. So this anxiety comes in wondering not only how am I doing in providing, but am I doing it in a way that is pleasing to the Lord?

To my family and myself and finding balance can sometimes be a challenge, uh, between my wife, my kids, my boss, my team, my friends, my neighbors, my ward members, my Sunday school class. How do I please them all and do enough to feel like they're getting the My best when honestly, sometimes I just want to take five.

I just want some Netflix without feeling like I'm letting down.

[01:08:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes. There's many people giving you a high five hallelujah right now.

[01:09:00] Mark Taylor: It's actually, and you know, the only formula I have found that works is knowing in the moment where I am needed most and elder Bednar has talked about this before. Now, obviously my, my family and the gospel, they always hold the Trump part on that.

They, they have absolute veto power over everything else, but managing my time with competing priorities, I, I totally think that's something you can pray for and receive inspiration on.

[01:09:31] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Boy, absolutely. I will second that. And I like how you said, cause I wrote it down. Um, it's important for me to know where I'm needed most and that the spirit can help us and teach us where we are needed most.

And I think you are absolutely correct. Again, you following the spirit, following that Christ is the faith part of this anxiety equation that Jacob's experiencing. So perfectly said both of you. I appreciate that. I think that's what Jacob's feeling is. Where is he needed most and what can he say that's going to have the most, this is going to pack the most punch because he's speaking to two groups of people.

He's speaking to the pure in heart and the not pure in heart and how in the world is he going to speak to both of them and have it be the most effective thing possible. And so go in with me. Now we're going to look at Jacob chapter three. We're going to find out how he starts out his talk to them. He addresses in verses one and two, the pure in heart.

And then he starts in three through the rest of the chapter to the not pure in heart. Let's look what he has to say to them. Adria, will you please read Jacob chapter three verses one and two. And as, as Adria reads that I want all of us to highlight or underline what you think is some of the best advice Jacob could give the pure in heart.

Okay, go ahead, Adria. Okay. Versus one to two.

[01:10:47] Adria Taylor: But behold, I, Jacob would speak unto you that are pure in heart. Look unto God with firmness of mind, and pray unto him with exceeding faith. And he will console you in your afflictions, and he will plead your cause, and send down justice upon those who seek your destruction.

O all ye that are pure in heart, lift up your heads, and receive the pleasing word of God, and feast upon his love, for ye may, if your minds are firm, forever.

[01:11:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Is there anything you guys specifically underlined or marked?

[01:11:22] Adria Taylor: I loved the plead your cause.

I guess if I was in this situation And I had had my husband do some of the things that these wives had experienced. I would hope that there would be some message of justice coming their way, that the Lord would plead my cause, that he would know the pains of my heart, and that there would be some kind of message to them, to those who were causing that pain.

And then I loved how it just, Said, but until that time comes that I can lift up my head and receive the pleasing word of God and feast upon his love, that it doesn't matter how we've been wounded. God's love is always there. Always.

[01:12:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ooh. I even circled at your part where he says, plead your cause. I circled the word will, it doesn't say he might bleed your cause.

Like he will plead your cause. That's powerful. Adrian, thank you for sharing that. Mark. What did you have?

[01:12:26] Mark Taylor: The phrase, firmness of mind, I think he was giving them some encouragement there. You have been taught, you know what is right and wrong. Stay steadfast, stay resolute, have that firmness of mind to continue doing what you're doing. Don't follow what, what those others are doing.

[01:12:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. That is so good because when you think of people, these people whose hearts are wounded.

And anyone listening that has a wounded heart, it is so easy to just say, in fact, I've heard friends say this, what's the point? I've done everything I was taught to do and look how it turned out. There's no point in leave believing anymore. I'm done going to church. God doesn't hear my prayer. I, that is such a common statement.

And I like how you just said, Mark. He's saying to these people with the pure in heart that have wounded hearts. Wow, have a firmness of mind. You know, it is right. You've always believed it. Just stay.

Okay, Mark, read what he says to the unpure in heart. Verse three.

[01:13:37] Mark Taylor: Verse three. But woe, woe, unto you that are not pure in heart, that are filthy this day before God. For except you repent, the land is cursed for your sakes, and the Lamanites, which are not filthy like unto you, Nevertheless, they are cursed with a sore cursing shall scourge you even unto destruction.

[01:13:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Now, why'd you place emphasis on the second? Whoa.

[01:13:59] Mark Taylor: Well, anytime you have a double, whoa, it's a, it's extra bad. Tammy,

[01:14:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: it is extra bad. We have a woe Oracle right here. This is like serious. He's not messing around. I mean, just that verse. Now he's going to say a lot more stuff in these verses. I recommend you read them and mark them, but setting it up right there. That are not pure in heart, filthy this day, the word filthy right there.

And you're going to read it several times in these verses. It's referring strictly to sin. You're filthy because of your sins and except he repent the land, not just you, but the land is cursed for your sakes. This is serious.

[01:14:37] Mark Taylor: Well, I, I, that's quite the warning that he gives them that the Lamanites for all of their misgivings.

are, are still, and they've ended up in a better spot than you are, and they are going to come and try to destroy you.

[01:14:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: This is, you can see how he's in this weird predicament. No wonder he's got anxiety. He's like, we've got the pure in heart and then the not pure in heart. And I've got to speak to you both.

I'm going to set it up like this. And then in the next segment, we're going to dive into more of his words to these people. And we're going to find out if what he says works for both groups of people. So we'll do that next.

Segment 6

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[01:15:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We are in Jacob chapter four, and I asked my guests to just share what they marked in Jacob chapter four, because here it is. This is what he wants the people to know. This is what he has to say to them. And it's so Christ centric. I love it. And so. Just hit it, start and take turns sharing. What did you guys mark in this chapter?

[01:15:52] Adria Taylor: Well, he starts off right away by saying he's writing this to let their children in posterity know that they knew of Christ many years before his coming. I, I think like we've often asked our kids, do you feel like it's harder to believe that Christ came or to be those people that lived before he came believing that he would come?

Oh, now that's a good question. Questions ask yourself, like what would be harder to believe that he would come or that he already did? I think, you know, they both have their challenges, but just how faithful they were many years before he came, you know, they were repenting. Before they even knew for sure if the atonement was going to happen and be valid in their lives.

Um, and then they go on to talk about pointing their souls to him and witnessing of the hope that they'd obtained in Christ. So, you know, again, going back to what you referenced way at the beginning of this, about how Jacob had seen his redeemer, he was sharing that hope with him. Like. I have seen him. I know he's going to do what he said he's going to do.

And I want to give that hope to you.

[01:17:01] Mark Taylor: So yeah, first seven, eight verses. There's a lot of talk about study and learning and knowledge. And then in verse 10, he talks about counsel and wisdom, which are different. You can study and learn everything from all the past prophets and what Jacob is telling them today.

But then he says wherefore brethren seek not to counsel the Lord but to take counsel from his hand for behold Ye yourselves know that he counsels in wisdom and justice and in great mercy over all his works And I, I do think this goes totally hand in hand with the pride cycle and with the situation that was starting to play out.

[01:17:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I have a question. This is really cool. You chose that. How could that verse be for both groups of people, the pure in heart and the not pure in heart? I just have this like, aha, when you read that.

[01:17:59] Mark Taylor: Is it, so isn't this the challenge, it's hammy. We each and I were talking about this literally yesterday after church.

So how can all of these words apply to these two groups? We're never going to fully understand the context of someone's life. And we're obviously not the ones who are going to be the judge. So sometimes when we're talking to two different groups of people, it's, it's tough to know carrot or I almost said stick, uh, Lord, doesn't use stick.

Gentle reminder, encouraging nudge, what have you. But the doctrine doesn't change. It applies to both groups. The Lord's hands are outstretched eternally. His mercy is available to all that'll turn to him, regardless of which group you're in. And both, both groups need

[01:18:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: it. Wow. Very well said. Absolutely.

[01:18:47] Adria Taylor: I thought with that one back to the experience I shared earlier about, um, that sister in the ward and how I was expecting the Lord to heal my wounded soul in a certain way.

So even though So maybe I was more of the pure in heart that's in that situation. I still needed to take counsel from the Lord and I needed to recognize that I needed to love someone who was hard to love at the time. So it does, it, it affects both of us. We, no matter what stage we are in life, we need to seek the Lord's guidance.

[01:19:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Absolutely. Well, it's so wonderful in Jacob chapter four, because I read verse six and then I went over and, and read up with it versus 15 through 18. And it just astounded me that this would be perfect no matter where you are in your woundedness. If somebody wounded you or if you're wounding someone, everybody's wounded.

That's the reality. Every single one of us are wounded. And I thought this was such great advice from Jacob. Let's read Jacob chapter four, verse six, and we're going to mark a word in there. Adria, will you read verse six for us, please?

[01:19:54] Adria Taylor: Wherefore we search the prophets and we have many revelations in the spirit of prophecy.

And having all these witnesses, we obtain a hope and our faith becometh unshaken in so much that we truly can command in the name of Jesus and the very trees obey us or the mountains or the waves of the sea.

[01:20:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Let's highlight the word unshaken and our faith becometh unshaken. And we're going to connect that over here to Jacob chapter four and we're going to read verses 17 and 18 in these verses leading up to what he talks about a foundation and he talks about.

Building on a strong foundation and specifically a stone in verse 16, behold, according to the scriptures, this stone shall become the great and the last. And when you read the word stone in scripture, it most often is Jesus Christ. So he's talking about according to the scriptures, this stone or the savior shall become great and last and the only sure foundation upon which the Jews can build.

And then we get these verses, Mark, will you read 17 and 18 please?

[01:20:56] Mark Taylor: And now, my beloved, how is it possible that these, after having rejected the Sure Foundation, can ever build upon it, that it may become the head of their corner? Behold, my beloved brethren, I will unfold this mystery unto you. If I do not, by any means, get shaken from my firmness in the Spirit and stumble because of my over anxiety for you.

[01:21:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Right there we have again the idea of firmness. and being unshaken. I want to apply this idea to being unshaken. And then they have right here. He says, don't get shaken again. We're going to go back to elder Anderson because he talks about this idea of being unshaken and I'm going to read it.

And then I have a question afterwards. Here we go. In nature, Trees that grow up in a windy environment become stronger. As winds whip around a young sapling, forces inside the tree do two things. First, they stimulate the roots to grow faster and spread farther. Second, the forces of the tree start creating cell structures that actually make the trunk and branches thicker and more flexible to the pressure of the wind.

These stronger roots and branches. Protect the tree from winds that are sure to return. You are infinitely more precious to God than a tree. You are his son or his daughter. He made your spirit strong and capable of being resilient to the whirlwinds of life. The whirlwinds in your youth, like the wind against a young tree, can increase your spiritual strength preparing you for the years ahead.

So my question, the two of you, as you have remained unshaken and firmness of mind, how Through all that you've gone through. I want to know what in your life growing up and even right now has prepared you for when the whirlwinds come.

[01:22:40] Adria Taylor: So for me, it has literally been what we're doing right now. When Come Follow Me was first introduced to us as a church, I remember thinking, Oh, okay, like this sounds nice.

Now we're going to step up our scripture study a notch by discussing what we read instead of just, you know, each reading a couple of verses. I got this. Um, the first week of Come Follow Me came and I opened the manual planning to just Simply read and discuss a section each day of the family, you know, just open it up.

Let's all read some of it. However, as I did, the spirit asked me, how would you prepare to teach a class at church? Ouch.

[01:23:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow.

[01:23:16] Adria Taylor: I thought of the many callings that I've held and the hours that I would spend preparing lessons. And the spirit then touched my heart again and asked, don't your own children deserve at least that much, if not more?

And that changed everything for me. Like that question just hit me like a ton of bricks for years. I had been reading the scriptures with our children. Mark and I had both done that almost daily. It certainly wasn't my best. It was not the most that I could give them. Um, so I just had it been as dedicated as I should.

And I decided right then and there that I needed to change. So we're on our sixth year of come follow me now. And I love the scriptures. My kids laugh at me because most of my Christmas presents are all scripture based things that I can use to help study that upcoming year. But not only have I changed, our families changed.

We actually look forward to scripture study now. It's not just a checking the box. We come together. It's one of the highlights of my day. Hearing my children's impressions that they have as they read and as we discuss scriptures. We've grown together as a family. And I feel like it has prepared us for so many whirlwinds that have come because the last six years have been full of them.

That's when our kids started becoming teenagers. And I realized the Lord was so inspired. He always is, of course, with this program, we needed it as a family. If it was just for me and my family, the whole program was worth it. I'm so grateful for it.

[01:24:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, Adria. I like how you said if it was just for you and your family, it would've been worth it.

Yeah. What a powerful witness. Thank you for sharing that, Mark.

[01:25:05] Mark Taylor: I, I love this because I love treats. Uh, Adrian might the kids say they mock me sometimes because I love priests so much and he's always making a contact. That's right.

[01:25:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Easily. We walk always. Oh, that's so cool. Tell, okay. Talk to me. I love this.

[01:25:21] Mark Taylor: So where, where we grew up in Southern Alberta, uh, the wind blows like, like you wouldn't believe. Uh, and we get very little rain. So for a tree to survive in that climate, it has to be incredibly steady. Uh, these trees and so you could throw an asteroid out and they probably wouldn't fall over. And then we moved down here to Georgia.

We get 50 inches of rain a year. We don't get a lot of wind. And I I've seen when storms come through this area, and especially when we go down and do like hurricane cleanup, you know, along the coast, I'm always blown away at just, just the destruction. Uh, but then I remember that these trees, they, they aren't built for harsh wind and they don't have very developed root systems, uh, because they typically don't, you know, So for me, obviously, you know, I, I've had those deep personal experiences that have helped shape my testimony and things I can think back to and rely on during hard times.

But I, I think what we miss sometimes is that it's what we do every day that really prepares us for when the whirlwinds do come. Every time we say a prayer, every time we read the scriptures, every time we go to the temple. You know, times 10, 000 we are slowly but steadily hardening that bark and expanding and strengthening that root system.

It doesn't all happen at once. And I, I think that's the point. It's not supposed to, it's through steady, consistent effort. So maybe that's part of it for me. And you know, while I certainly haven't always been a hundred percent diligent in my own personal efforts and you know, really lousy week, maybe I'm lucky if I'm even 50.

Maybe over the course of, of my life, the longterm, it's, it's been enough to keep that growth, uh, going for me when the, the trials come for me personally.

[01:27:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, Mark. I like how you said consistent efforts. I think we just need to be reminded of that. You're absolutely right. Cause it can't happen in just a day.

Um, and I like how you said times a thousand that resonated with me, like indeed times a thousand. So thank you. Thank you to both of you. That's the end of our episode. You guys were awesome. Oh my gosh. What a fun discussion. So do this, just gather your thoughts, look through all your notes and just tell me what's your takeaway from today.

What's something you'll remember or want to reteach or what was a moment you're like, Oh yeah. And then just when you have a quick little two sentence, just hit it and tell us what you learned.

[01:27:50] Adria Taylor: For me, it was when Mark had brought up that part about them having the firm minds. I just, I had, I'd read that, but it didn't even occur to me that they had everything they needed with that firm mind.

And it just made me think of my own situation. I have been given the gospel of Jesus Christ. I know it. I have it. Um, will I leave that when times get hard? No, I could have that firmness of mind, so it just made me more resolute and that determination to remain firm and steadfast.

[01:28:26] Mark Taylor: For me, I, I, I guess where we landed there at the end, uh, put in the effort, uh, do the work, do it often. It'll be so much easier to keep the faith when the storms come, if your roots are already, uh, pretty developed and that, that bark and those branches are pretty hardened.

[01:28:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mm hmm. Absolutely. Thank you. Both of you.

Um, mine was yours, Adrian. I agree. That idea of that firmness of mind, it really hit home for me. And especially this idea, like, you know, you've always known just continue to be firm because it's so easy to just go, I'm sick of this and walk away. So that was for me, for sure. One of my takeaways. And then Adrian, one of the things that I loved was when you pointed out.

To enlarge the wounds of those that are already wounded and your description of that, especially in light of what your friends are experiencing, how you made it so personal. My heart breaks for anyone, you know, in that situation. And I can tell that you love them and that I bet you have anxiety for them, the same anxiety that Jacob had.

And so I appreciated you bringing that around full circle every time because so many of us listening can experience, we know that experience and we can relate to it. So thank you. Thank you. Both of you. Thanks for coming. So well prepared. You guys are awesome. Wow. That was fun. Thank you, Tammy. Thank you.

What was your takeaway? Now? I want you to go and join us on Facebook or Instagram and share what you have learned or ask questions. It's so fun. It's a really awesome community. And then at the end of the week on a Saturday. We'll post a question from this episode. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts.

You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode found at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday and go there anyway, because it's where we're going to have links to all the references and a transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday study group is a Deseret bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living.

It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our fabulous study group participants were Adria and Mark Taylor. And you can find more information about these friends at LDS living. com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.

Thanks for being here. Friends. We will see you next week. And please remember. That you are God's favorite.