The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I want you to think about a personal story from your life. Okay, but not just any personal story. How about an intensely personal story? And how many people know that story? I mean, who would you trust to tell that story to? Would you hold back any details for fear of being judged? How hard is it for us to be intensely personal?

Today's study of Enos, Jerem, and Omni and the words of Mormon have what is described by scholars as an intensely personal story. And we are going to view it with that lens. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together.

I'm your host, Tammy. Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description. That's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study. Just like my friend, Diane McNally and Diane, thank you for your awesome Facebook post. Now, another incredible thing about our study group is that each week we're joined by two of my friends.

So it's always a little bit different. And today I am thrilled to introduce you to these two people who I just really admire and love. They are Holly and Greg Richardson. Hello, you two. Hello. Hello. Oh, this is so fun. Good to be here. Hey, it's good to have you back, Holly. Holly's been on a couple of times, but this is the first time we've had your husband on.

[00:01:24] Greg Richardson: Great to be here.

[00:01:26] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Are you nervous? How you feeling, Greg? I'm okay. How do you two know each other?

[00:01:32] Holly Richardson: Uh, we've been married for quite a while. How many years? So in April, it will be 38 years actually. So really a long time sounds just really a long time.

[00:01:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That is a long time.

[00:01:47] Holly Richardson: Yeah. It is, we met at BYU and we were in the same singles ward at BYU many years ago and met and got married and basically, except for about 18 months in Washington state, we've been in Utah County the whole rest of our married life.

[00:02:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I want to know though, Greg, how did you, what was your first impression of Holly when you met her?

[00:02:11] Greg Richardson: It's awkward. Holly's a little bit embarrassed by this. So I was brand new off of my mission a few months and, uh, so I was still having hymns go through my head when I heard, you know, modern music and, uh, came to BYU.

There's a preschool dance for the ward. Um, meaning before school starts, right? Not preschool age. Oh, okay. Okay. Dance I'd been to after my mission. And so I'm standing there, you know, having these hymns go through my head and, uh, Holly's just amazingly vivacious woman who's doing cartwheels across the dance floor.

And of course I am totally intimidated,

[00:02:55] Holly Richardson: but. But we did not actually start dating until about three years after that.

[00:03:00] Greg Richardson: So for all that time, she didn't know me. I noticed her the very first time we were in the same room. She did not notice me for several years. Took a while, but

[00:03:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: that is so sweet. Well, and I'm not surprised you, it, you cannot not notice Holly.

I mean, you're right.

[00:03:20] Holly Richardson: I would have described myself as shy then. And that was, uh, an act and now I'm not shy and it's not an act. And I'm very, very extroverted.

[00:03:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I was going to say that. Yeah. You're very extroverted. It's one of my favorite qualities about you.

[00:03:37] Holly Richardson: Thank you. And Greg's an introvert. Yeah.

[00:03:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. You guys are the exact opposites attract story, right?

[00:03:43] Holly Richardson: Yeah. Yeah. Although in the importance, we agree like the number of kids to have. So that part's good. Well, and we're going to get to that. I can't wait.

[00:03:53] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Should we tease everybody?

[00:03:55] Holly Richardson: How many kids do you have? We have 25 children, 19 of them are still living.

So yeah, and a lot of them came by adoption and um, you know, people will say to me sometimes, how did you get your husband to let you do that? And I'm like, well, there's no let. I mean, we had to be jointly yoked, I guess, in the adoption decision because you don't accidentally adopt, right? So there's a lot of children, lots of papers to sign, lots of money to expend.

Um, but yeah, that was one thing we were equally yoked on.

[00:04:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's neat. Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, many people are listening going. I cannot wait for their story, so I'm sure a lot of it will come out in this episode and I'm really looking forward to our discussion of these chapters. If you want to know more about my guests and actually see a picture of their family, I highly recommend it.

You're going to want to go to our show notes, which are at LDS, living. com slash Sunday on Monday. So everyone grabbed your scriptures, something to mark your scriptures with, and let's dive into Enos, Jerem, Omni, and the words of Mormon. Okay. You too. What did the Holy Ghost teach you as you studied these books this week?

[00:05:08] Holly Richardson: So one of the things that's fun for me is that I am the gospel doctrine teacher, one of four actually gospel doctrine teachers in our ward. And I, uh, get to teach this very lesson myself. So it's really fun to have an extra amount of time to study and go over, um, some of the lessons here. I think you might laugh at this.

One of the scriptures that stood out to me, it's actually in Jerem. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's first 10. It says the prophets of the Lord did threaten the people of Nephi. Tell me why. So they, so in Jerom, he explains even at the beginning, and I marked that one too, in verse three, he says, the people Have become hard in their hearts and deaf in their ears, blind in their minds.

And, and, and so he's really grateful that the Lord hasn't swapped him off the land yet. And then in verse 10, he says that the prophets have to threaten, to threaten them according to the word of God, because if they don't keep the commandments, they're going to be destroyed from off the face of the land.

But, but it never really stood out to me before. Studying for this conversation. And, and that's the fact that he, they just reiterate over and over that they had to really bring down the hammer, man, in this period of Nephite history. And, and we know, right. As we look forward that there's more, but they really had to say, look, we're serious here.

Like if you guys go astray, we're going to be wiped off. But I thought that was what stood out to me.

[00:06:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh. I'm not laughing. I think it's fantastic. I just highlighted it. I had never even noticed that before. And then I asked this cause in my mind, I thought this question, have we been threatened? Do you think we've ever had prophets and apostles threaten us?

Like that word can seem so disparaging, but what do you think about that?

[00:07:03] Holly Richardson: So one of the things I thought about that same question too, right? What would it feel like if we felt like the prophets were threatening? I don't, I don't know if it would be any different than what we're hearing right now, right?

So right now we're hearing things like, The most important work that you can do is to gather Israel. Okay. But we're also hearing we have to get rid of contention, that we have to learn to love people, that we have to be kind. Um, I think that's pretty strong, especially given the environment that we're in right now, that we're having this.

Reiteration over and over that you've got to be, um, nicer to people that you need to love people that you need to get contention out of your heart. Right? And, and I think maybe the threat part sounds like. If you don't do this, then this, and he's very explicit. Jeremy's very explicit, but I also think modern prophets are pretty explicit saying, look, things like if you jump off the gospel train, you're not going to be able to get back on as easily.

Right. Or that we need to have. The faith that we have had up to this point is not sufficient for us to move forward in the future. I mean, I think those are the warnings too, right? The words are just a little bit different.

[00:08:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ooh, I love that answer. That was good. What a great, the Holy Ghost taught you that, that is so cool.

[00:08:27] Greg Richardson: and she's such a good communicator. She does a really good job of, uh, creating her thoughts and expressing them. So I'm not gonna be nearly so eloquent. So, uh, I'll, I'll give you my thoughts. You can

[00:08:37] Holly Richardson: cut that part out. Trim that part out. .

[00:08:41] Greg Richardson: There's, when Enos is praying and he starts off praying for himself and, and then he expands it to his family and he knows what's going to happen.

He knows that they're going to fall away. And the Lord tells him that, that, that eventually they're not going to be righteous and they're going to fall away and he's. He, he's just, he has so much love for them that even though it's many, many generations removed from him, he wants a promise from the Lord that he's going to still remember them and try to take care of them.

And so for me, that love of his children and grandchildren and great grandchildren that, Down, you know, I don't know how many tens of generations. He just really, really loves his family and wants them to be taken care of. And then he follows that up with that same love for his enemies. Those who, I mean, there's an awful lot of horrible things that are about to be said about the, the Lamanites, about the rest of the family that's being so mean to them.

And some of the things they say are pretty bad. pretty darn harsh. They're, they're really not much good that they can say about them, but he loves them and he loves their children and he wants them to be preserved and, and their records to be preserved so that they can come back to their children so that they'll have a chance to return to our father in heaven.

So for me, the biggest thing about Enos is the love of his family and the love of his enemies.

[00:10:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I, as you were explaining that all I could keep thinking was, and maybe Holly, you can, you know, chime in on this, that Greg is a modern day Enos. And I know you're rolling your eyes. I know you're rolling your eyes, but as you kept saying how much he loves his children and he worries about his children and he loves his family.

I felt like, is Greg the same type of father? Maybe you can answer that.

[00:10:43] Holly Richardson: Yeah, he is, you know, and, and we like many families, um, in the church today have children who've chosen a different path and, you know, we, we have gone through the mental exercise of saying, what is our responsibility and our responsibility is to love them, right?

And so we do, and we do love them and we pray for them and we pray for their children. And, um, you know, Greg is a very good dad and a very good. Grandfather. And he, I think is going to continue that. I think one of the things when I read, especially the, the, the really small books where we, you know, jump ahead hundreds of years is the importance of journal keeping or record keeping of some type, right?

We do the one to skip a few and we've gone 200 years. One of the things for me is. One of the things for me that's super important is that we leave a record for our children. And I, I write professionally and I do it for a newspaper. So it's a little bit different way to tell our story. But what I haven't done is write down like, how did I get my testimony?

And why am I, you know, why do I stay in the church when things swirl so much sometimes then? Um, And I, I feel a real desire to do that because I think the Book of Mormon shows us what happens when we don't. We miss a lot.

[00:12:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, you're absolutely right. Well, thank you. You two for sharing what the Holy Ghost taught you this week.

Because as you were speaking in my mind, I was thinking the Holy Ghost just taught me from what you said. And it is going back to how you just love your children and want them to have a record. Of what you believe and what you know. And so maybe that's like the Enos challenge for the week is to write down how you got your testimony.

I think we need to be reminded of that too, not just to remind our children, but so we can be reminded how we got our testimony in those little moments. are our foundation. So thank you to both of you. We're going to have a great discussion today. So in the next segment, we're just going to dive right into who the heck is Enos and why are we studying his words?

We'll show you who that is next.

Segment 2

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[00:12:59] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Let's go to the title page for the book of Enos. And we're just going to write a couple of things off to the side that we want to know about him. First of all, he is the grandson of Lehi. He's the nephew of Nephi. So can you imagine uncle Nephi? I love that his father is Jacob. So all of his uncles are layman Lemuel, Sam, Joseph, and he has aunts.

Let's be clear about that. We've learned that this year. So this is who Enos is. And as we have this story in Enos chapter one, verse one, there's two words that will specifically teach us about his upbringing. And I want us to just focus on those words. So Greg, can you please read for us Enos chapter one, verse one.

[00:13:40] Greg Richardson: Okay. Behold, it came to pass that I, Enos, knowing my father that he was a just man, for he taught me in his language, and also in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, and blessed be the name of the Lord my God for it.

[00:13:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Let's highlight nurture and admonition. He was taught in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

What did you guys find when it comes to those two words? What are those words teach us about Enos?

[00:14:11] Holly Richardson: Well, uh, Greg and I had a conversation before we started, um, this conversation with you, Tammy. And he said, you know, it makes me sad that there's no mention of his mom, but she almost certainly was somebody who was deeply involved in both the nurture and admonition. Right. So, so to me, when I read that the nurturing is the caring emotional support, the, um, if you do nurture and admonition of the Lord, does he do both?

Right. Admonition to me is. sometimes negative actually, but I don't think he means it in a negative context here. I think he means that in these are the commandments. These are, this is the road, right? Where you need to go. And, and that he, this was something for him that he was kind of, I guess, steeped in the gospel as he was growing up and it took him however old he was before he finally felt that I have to know for myself and went out to pray.

[00:15:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Great insight. Greg, what made you think about his mom?

[00:15:16] Greg Richardson: Well,

the, the scriptures, especially the, well, all the scriptures, even modern day scriptures tend to focus on, on the men. And, um, very often we don't know anything at all about the mothers. Um, we, we've got some great stories coming up in the Book of Mormon where, where there's a lot more mention of the moms and their impacts.

You know, they went through some amazing experiences and I'm sure that their testimonies were just as strong and their impact on their children was just as great as, as their fathers was. So, It's just sad that we didn't get that half of the story in my mind. I think there's a whole nother half

[00:16:05] Holly Richardson: now, you know why I love him so much.

Thank you very much.

[00:16:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, I'm sitting here looking at the two of you and I'm going, Oh, right here. I'm seeing nurture and admonition in full force as you have raised 25 kids. What is that like? to teach them in the nurture and admonition. Did either one of you have a specific role to do with that? Or how did that, how did that work for you guys?

[00:16:27] Holly Richardson: Well, I stayed home with the kids for many years and, uh, through, I guess I call it, uh, being in the trenches. So when we were deep, right, as a parenting, I was the stay at home parent. And so it was the day to day stuff of, you know, potty training and, you know, diapers and dishes and meals and those types of things.

But we were. We were pretty consistent when the kids were growing up about, um, family home evening and, um, saying prayer at dinner and having dinner together. We still do dinner together and we have a prayer. Um, um, and we have varying numbers of people who show up at the dinner table, right? Sometimes it's just the two of us.

And sometimes there's 10 people. We don't. Ever really know, but, but that, I mean, that was one of the things, right? So it's the, it's kind of the constant, how do you, how do you live your life and do all the normal stuff that takes so much time and so much effort and also have this gospel kind of centered conversation.

And, um, I used gospel music a lot. When the kids were younger, partially because it helped kind of tone down the rambunctiousness a little bit, if I could still talk about it. And like, uh, remember mom used to make us listen to church music. I'm like, I know. It was so great. You guys quieted.

[00:17:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So let me go ahead and push play right now.

[00:17:49] Holly Richardson: Yeah, but, but. You know, and Greg, so Greg did the work outside the home and then come home and still have to be do the dinner stuff. But he was, he's, he was, and is really great at interacting with the kids on a different, in a different way, I guess. So, For some of the boys, when they were growing up, it was wrestling, right?

They weren't big into hugging as they got into their teenage years, but he could wrestle with them and, you know, and that, that kind of touch is okay. Um, he, he did jigsaw puzzles with some of the kids. He's gone on hikes where literally his toes are bloody, but he's a trooper and he's gone on hikes while I cheer them from my house.

But, but those types of things, I think Greg always really made a real effort to focus on how he could not only create, but maintain connection with the kids as they move through different stages. And one of the things that will not surprise you with such a big family is that they are very different in their personalities.

Right. And I think one of the things that's a blessing from having adopted so many is that we know that sometimes the kids come as they come. And, you know, some kids. We have some kids that were honestly super easy to raise and, uh, easy to nurture and some kids where there was more admonition,

[00:19:16] Greg Richardson: you know, and every, every child is, is different and you have to learn how to interact with that child.

Um, and I, I, I would say there's. At least for us, there's been a lot more leaning towards the nurture than towards the admonition and it's difficult for them to open up and it's kind of what you were talking about of, of Enos being an intensely personal, uh, person. Intensely personal revelation of what he was going through.

Um, we have kids who had a really horrific backgrounds and it took them a while to feel comfortable with talking about that. Um, when they finally did, you don't offer advice. At least we didn't feel like there was advice to offer. All you can say is, I'm so sorry. I love you and I'm so sorry. Nobody should have had to go through that.

And so I, I think from our perspective, the nurture, uh, has been much more important in our parenting than, than the admonition. They, a lot of them know, they hear it from other places. They know the rights and the wrongs. They really need to feel the love.

[00:20:37] Holly Richardson: I will also say therapy is a good thing.

[00:20:40] Greg Richardson: Therapy is an awesome thing.

Even though . Therapy can be really, really hard for them because once again, it's intensely personal and being able to open up and face those demons can be really hard.

[00:20:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Well, I'm playing off of the way that we just talked about these words, nurture and admonition. I love everything that you guys just shared and how powerful that is because as I'm looking at this story now and I'm viewing it through that lens, you absolutely can see just how The nurture, he was taught in the nurture.

And when you read his story, there's so much love. Just like you said, Greg, he loves his family. I mean, that nurture is so important to him. It was important enough for him to mention after the nurture and admonition and nurture played such a key role in the outcome of his prayer and in the outcome of what he does for his people.

I was struck by the word admonition. I did look it up. The word admonition here in the 1832 Webster's Dictionary that we love to use means instruction in duties. It gives caution and direction with some gentle reproof, but capitalizing on the instruction in duties is what Hugh Nibley does. And he says this admonition was his father Jacob's way of saying to Enos, you're next in line.

You're going to be the next high priest. You're going to be in charge. And Enos feeling so overwhelmed with the responsibility that that became for him is why he went into the woods to pray like, I don't know if I want to do this cause I have seen how hard it's been for my dad and his brother and for my uncle and my grandpa.

And so he goes into the words and now he's thinking about the nurture and admonition. And now you can see how those two play into his prayer and his leadership style. That is. So cool. Everything you guys just said and shared. So thank you for doing that. So here's what we'll do in the next segment. Then we are going to start to study Enos's story that we have called over and over again, an intensely personal story.

That's coming up next.

Segment 3

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[00:22:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Hugh Nibley is the one who called Enos's story, an intensely personal story. And that really hit me hard because when I read the story with that lens, it changed the way I had read it. And I thought, What was that thing you said at the very beginning, Holly, about skipping a verse, a verse or two. One, two, skip a few.

That's it. One, two, skip a few. Sometimes you want to do that with these little chapters, but don't want to skip a few when you know it's an intensely personal story. So I asked my guests to read the book of Enos with that in their mind, that it's an intensely personal story. And I just asked you to come prepared, share aspects of his story that for you were intensely personal.

[00:23:28] Holly Richardson: So I think as I look at his story through that lens, right? So he's writing it down, how he's gone through this intensely personal experience and, and. Leaving his mom out for the moment, right? He says when he goes into the forest, he, he really, he was thinking about things, right? So we talk about pondering or, you know, just trying to work it out in our minds.

He was thinking about how his dad had talked about eternal life. He was thinking about the joy that his dad had been talking about. And, and that was something he says sunk deep into his heart. And so he wanted to find out, uh, for himself and he got that answer. And, and one of the things that he did is he said, how, like, how has this done?

He, he heard the voice of the Lord. He heard that he was forgiven and he turned around basically to say, how has that done? One of the things that struck me is the language that is used is the same language that's used in the New Testament, because this is his answer. And this is an eight, the Lord said unto him, because of thy faith in Christ, whom thou has never before heard, nor seen, and many years pass away before he shall manifest himself in the flesh, wherefore, go to thy faith, hath made thee whole.

And I think maybe because I have been in this role of gospel doctrine teacher, I immediately this time was like, Oh my gosh, that's the woman with the issue of blood. Those are the words thy faith has made me whole. And I had not really made that connection before. And so again, that's another part of the story that stuck out to me at this time.

[00:25:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Hold on. I'm writing all of this down. Oh, Holly, that is awesome. How many times have we read that in scripture?

Okay. Hold on. Cause I have follow up. Cause he's asked, how is this done? And he's talking about his guilt in verse six, the guilt that he feels for all of the dumb stuff he's done, whatever that looks like. I don't even know. Okay. That's really cool. The answer is so simple.

[00:25:48] Holly Richardson: Well, and I've been talking, um, lately in my, uh, Gospel doctrine classes, just the, the Lord has placed a long game, right?

He has a long view. So this is hundreds of years before Christ walks the earth and says those words in the flesh to a woman who touches his garment and, and yet here he is saying the same thing. And so through throughout history, we have this evidence of God's love and how our faith is being. makes us whole, whether we're Enos or we're a woman with an issue of blood, or we're parents of 25 kids who have, you know, 25 different, um, backgrounds and life stories.

Right. So it's a very long game.

[00:26:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that and pointing that out. That was really profound.

[00:26:43] Greg Richardson: So one of the things that I really love about the story, as I relate it to myself and to my life, is his, uh, respect, his gratitude to his father. There's a real deference and love that I feel coming from Enos towards Jacob, um, and, and, you know, there's, there's a lot of additional family support there, that, that, that, Is very supportive of him and his dad becoming what they were my my father was a convert to the church And his father was uh was not a very kind loving person he he he had uh substance abuse issues he There was not much good that you could say about him and and their relationship and my father couldn't wait You To leave home, joined the, the Navy the day he could and left and didn't want to look back.

And I remember going back and visiting and it was for grandma because grandpa didn't want to have anything to do with us. There was no love. There was no. relationship there. And my dad completely changed that in his relationship with his children, that he didn't have that in his relationship.

[00:28:08] Holly Richardson: It's okay.

[00:28:17] Greg Richardson: So there's just a lot of, uh, uh, respect and gratitude for me to my father for his contribution. to helping me and my children be good people in the same way that I think that, uh, that Enos had a lot of respect and admiration and love for his father.

[00:28:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Greg, how do you think your dad was able to do that?

There weren't therapists back then.

[00:28:48] Greg Richardson: It was hard. And, uh, Their relationship is complicated because, uh, he, he told me not long before he passed away, he said, um, I forgiven him, but I can't love him. I don't have any positive feelings for him. And, uh, he, he didn't want to do the work himself of sealing himself to his parents.

He wanted to be sealed to his mother. But he said, I can't, I just can't go there. So, you know, he, I think he disassociated in a lot of ways. He just said, if, if I can't get over that, I'm just gonna, I'm just, I, I, I have to forgive him, but maybe in the next life we can take that next step of repairing that relationship.

So, but he was a great father. He, he worked hard to support us and he worked hard to make sure that we had that, um, The admonition of the Lord to break the cycle of the gospel. And and and he told him told us he really thought his calling was to break that cycle of abuse. It didn't start with his father.

It was generational. That there was a lot of abuse, a lot of substance abuse, a lot of physical abuse, and it went back generations.

[00:30:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. You know, Greg, what I appreciate about what you shared is we're just starting out by talking about Enos's deeply personal story, intensely personal. And as a result, you shared your own intensely personal story.

I think that's what's neat about what scripture can do. If we're willing to let it, that the spirit can guide and help each other. That's what's so cool is your story is helping a lot of people. And so thank you for sharing that. I appreciate your willingness. So in this right here, I mean, my gosh, we just covered a couple of verses about this intensely personal story, but we're not done.

There is still more we're going to talk about. So in the next segment, we're going to dive into some of the examples that we can find in this intensely personal story.

Segment 4z

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[00:31:13] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I will tell you in preparation for this specific episode, I read many talks about Enos and one thing they all had in common is that they cited Enos as an example to them of specific things. And I put a couple of the talks in our show notes. Elder Bednar wrote a talk called Come and See. Elder Eyring wrote one called Prayers of Faith.

Elder Dale E. Miller, Bringing Peace and Healing to Your Soul. Sister Elaine Dalton, He Knows You by Name. All of these site Enos story and that he was an example to them. And I thought it'd be fun to ask my guest to share. How was Enos an example to you? Were there verses that stood out to you where you're like, Oh, this is a great record of an example or a word we could write next to the verse of what the example was.

Do you guys have anything like that?

[00:31:57] Greg Richardson: Sure. So one of the things that I think is sweetest about. Uh, or, or more personal about Enos's story is, is where he talks about his own sins being forgiven. And, and of course, he doesn't go into any detail about, uh, what his sins were or what his issues were. We don't know if he was a wild child who, who, uh, Uh, had to come back or if he was always a good kid who, who, uh, just kind of naturally fell into this, the, probably the, the, the thing that I really like is where he says after he, he feels the remittance of his sins, the forgiveness, he says to the Lord, how is this done?

Wow. That was amazing. How'd you do that? That just to me is a really, really, uh, Sweet part of the story where the, the relief and, uh, the change was palpable. It was a real change that was so remarkable that, that he had to express that wonder to the Lord.

[00:33:04] Holly Richardson: Yeah. And we, we mentioned that in a previous segment.

You know, I, I think for me, one of the things, um, that I had when I first gained my first testimony of the Book of Mormon, and of course, as you read it and get older and things deepen and change and new things stand out as I've already shared. But. I remember being a teenager and I think I was somewhere around 13 or 14, maybe and reading the book of Mormon and, and realizing it really was a journal.

Like it really was the, these were real people who had written things down that I could read. And, and I think in Enos, as I read this, there's a couple of things that stood out and I'm sure it's not going to be like an elder Bednar thing, but one of the things that stood out to me was. And again, I think I'm looking at the state of the world right now, but in verse 14, um, he says, he says, if it were possible, they would destroy our records and us, and also all the traditions of our fathers.

And, and then he really goes into praying about making sure that these records can be kept safe right now. You know, I look now at things that are happening in the world. And one of the things that happens when. Somebody is trying to take over another country or, or oppress another people is that they destroy the cultural heritage.

They destroy monuments, they destroy libraries, they destroy artwork, right? Because that is one way of trying to erase this people and. And I think for me this time, you know, that's one of the things that stood out because of what is happening in the world around us. And I can relate even maybe more strongly that Enos was very concerned that these records, if they, he, he talks about how he, His people, how hard they worked to preach the gospel to the Lamanites and how unsuccessful they were, but he really has this long view again.

And we need these records to be able to have that. And, you know, that ties in with the Words of Mormon that we'll talk about in a little bit, but he. Mormon rights looking backwards now, and he has to pick and choose not even a hundredth part. Right. And these are some of the words that he picks that are so important.

And you know, I'm a voracious reader. I can't wait to get all the rest. I want to know, I want to know, I want to know the political workings, right. Of all of these kings. Oh, I bet you do. Right. And, and then there's other civilizations where we know that they have records that we don't have. Like, I can't wait for that stuff.

Yeah. But for me, I mean, I think that's one of the things that, that, again, I guess it's, it's a reiteration of Enos, um, recognizing the importance of records and, you know, we've had a tradition in our, in our Latter day church of emphasizing. Journal keeping or record keeping and, you know, and, um, in my past life, I was a nurse.

This is long, long, long time ago. But I remember one of the things that I was taught when I was a nurse is if you don't write it down, it didn't happen. And, and they meant that from a legal perspective, if it's not written down, It didn't happen. Right. And, and you're not going to be able to protect yourself.

And I think that actually applies with scriptures too, whether it's your own family stuff or, um, you know, our canonized set of scriptures, if it's not written down, um, we, we lose that it's as if it didn't happen. And I just recently, um, listened again to people talking about the restored gospel, but how God has, has made it clear that people who don't have that, who don't have the knowledge that we have, they're not responsible for, um, Living up to, I guess what we would say are gospel standards.

If they don't know about it, they can't be held responsible, right? That's the, the good versus evil. If they don't, if they don't know that what they're doing is wrong, they can't be held accountable or responsible. And you know, how. Much has been lost because records were lost, right? How much of the tradition, how much of the women's stories, how much of, you know, some of these other things that, that maybe would be immensely beneficial, but, but they got lost because they were destroyed or they were written on, you know, Clay tablets that melted in the rain.

Like, I don't know. Sounds good. But we're also lucky enough to have some, right?

[00:37:53] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Ooh, that's good. I wrote that next to 14. If you didn't write it down, it didn't happen. That is going to apply to what we're going to study later today. I'm going to come back to that. That is so good. The one I have that I thought was really cool is especially in light of what you both talked about and Holly, when you said, that Enos, the sins were forgiven because the Lord said, thy faith hath made thee whole.

And I wonder if that was like a real seminal moment for Enos, because I wonder if that reconfirmed like, wow, I do have faith because he says in verse 11, after I Enos had heard these words, my faith began to be unshaken. And then again, he'll say it in verse 16. And I had faith. And I did cry unto God, and I'm just wondering if these experiences are increasing his faith and that when we have moments in our life, I know for me, when I had my repentance experience and Greg, I'm grateful you pointed this out because next to verse five, after you shared that with us, I wrote that Enos was transparent and he wasn't afraid to share his repentance story.

That seems to be a great theme for a lot of our prophets in scripture. That they're willing to share their repentance story. We don't know what he did. We never know what everyone did, but for them to be able to say, Oh, I had to be forgiven. I had to, there were things I had to take care of. And so here's Enos.

telling us that story. And then as a result, his faith becomes unshaken. He gets more faith. And I think that for me in my own life, I think that's when my, when I really truly understood faith is when I went through the repentance process and I had to go see my bishop or my mission president. I should say I had to go see my mission president.

I've shared this story before, but that feeling, that's almost like, how is that done? Like the piece from my head to my toe. When I, when I heard my mission president say, you are forgiven. I was like, I am, Oh my gosh. And then I could serve my mission and it was awesome. And, and that wording in verse 11, when he says, my faith began to be unshaken.

I wonder if that, if he heard his dad say that, cause his dad said that in Jacob chapter four, verse six, he says that his hope was that their faith would become unshaken.

[00:39:58] Holly Richardson: I think one of the things, right. That we sometimes. Maybe misinterpret when we read stories like this is that we think this is a one and done, right?

And that he never had anything ever again. I don't think that's true, but I think that he realized, like you pointed out, That, that he did have faith and that, and that he could continue to ask in faith. And along that same storyline, I think if you go to verse 16, um, and 17, so he says he had faith and he, this is when he's asking God to preserve the record and God covenanted with him.

That he would preserve the record and then he says, and I, Enos knew it would be according to the covenant, which he had made wherefore my soul did rest. Right. He had enough faith that he felt like he got that answer and he could let that worry go. Right. Because God's never going to break his promise.

Right. So, um, I just, it's, it's, I'm sure he had many opportunities where he had to continually, you know, feed the faith and, and make sure that it stayed strong and that he did the scriptures and, um, and those types of things. But that was, as you said, a seminal moment for him and his, uh, his own personal conversion story.

[00:41:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Can I ask you to do something you too? I want you to apply verse 17 to your life as parents, because here's the deal. Enos knows, he says, I, Enos knew it would be according to the covenant, which he had made where for my soul did rest. But let's be clear, the Lamanites didn't all of a sudden change. He knows that like, it's not like they all of a sudden started making good choices and everyone was writing unicorns and even lollipops.

Like it's still going to be really hard. So I want to know how you can apply that verse to your own life with your children. Can your soul rest with 25 kids all over the board? Maybe not.

[00:41:57] Holly Richardson: Uh, I'm not like Enos yet. So look, I'll, I'll just say this. I think one of the things for me, and I have said this repeatedly, um, over the last several years is as the kids get older, so our oldest is almost 37 and.

Um, and we're raising a granddaughter who's nine. So there's really a big span, but most, almost all of them, except for the nine year old or adults. And I didn't realize going into it how hard parenting adult children was actually. And I think for me, the place where my soul rests, if we're going to apply that scripture is knowing that this is act two of a three act play.

And that God really does play a long game, right? And I, it's just not possible for me or for anyone else, really, whether you're, you have adopted kids or not, whatever it is, it's not possible to know all the details that go into. Making a human being and the decisions that they make. And, you know, those, some things are out of their control.

I mean, Greg shared, uh, his story about generations of abuse that his father was able to stop that cycle. And, you know, we, we have kids who have trauma backgrounds and it's how much does that play into. their mortal experience. Right. And like, I don't know those answers, but what I do know is that we're apt to have a three act play and that God plays a long game.

And as long as I do my best to keep loving our kids and, you know, sharing my testimony in the ways that I can, um, that, that then I have to turn the rest over to him so that my soul can rest because If I just spent all day, every day worrying about things I can't control, I really would be a more of a hot mess than I already am.

Excellent. I like how you said that.

[00:43:56] Greg Richardson: Yeah. That was really well put. Um, we don't really know a lot about Enos's children. We know one and we know a little tiny bit about him. We don't know if he had a bunch of kids who ended up being lame millennials. He certainly was aware of that kind of situation and You know, Lehi and Sariah are really a great example of continuing to love those children and do everything they can to try to help them.

Skip a generation, work with the grandkids, try to help them. Um, you really do have to take the long view. Even if your children are making good decisions. Bad choices now that doesn't mean they'll always make bad choices And it doesn't mean that their kids or their kids kids or their kids kids kids are gonna make bad choices you really do have to keep that hope in Christ that it is possible for people to Learn along the way we'll all make mistakes and hopefully this is just One of the mistakes on their path to getting in the same place that we're going

[00:45:12] Holly Richardson: and to be fair I mean We, we don't even get to judge whether it's a mistake or not.

Maybe this is a learning opportunity that they need to have. Right. So that they can figure out stuff for themselves. That's the part where as a parent you go, but I can see that it might go easier for you. You did this thing I told you, right? But they're like 35. So

[00:45:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: yeah, exactly. Oh, great answers. Great answers.

Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate the way you answered that and the application of that verse. That was really powerful. And Greg, what I really liked is how you pointed out. We don't know a lot about Enos's kids, but what we do know is about one. And we know about his grandsons and great grandsons. And so we're going to get into their stories in the next segment.

And it is good.

Segment 5

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[00:46:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So as parents of 25 children, I did ask you this question. Did you ever get into scouting? We did. Do you guys know the Scout Oath?

[00:46:19] Holly Richardson: Greg does.

[00:46:20] Greg Richardson: We, I've repeated it many, many times, and uh, I was kind of sad. I mean, I understand, but I was kind of sad when the church and scouting split ways. Um, I regret that. I didn't get a lot of scouting as a, as a youth, but I had, uh, about 20 years of working with scouts as an adult leader.

And, uh, I, I really love scouting and I, I kind of miss it.

[00:46:46] Holly Richardson: He can recite the scout oath for you.

[00:46:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I was just going to ask you, will you please recite the oath?

[00:46:51] Greg Richardson: So on my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the scout law, to help other people at all times, to keep myself.

Physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

[00:47:06] Holly Richardson: Wow. We had scouts. Yeah.

[00:47:09] Greg Richardson: And Holly got the Silver beaver.

[00:47:11] Holly Richardson: I did. I got the silver beaver from the boy scouts of America, which is crazy. So I'm sorry. How many scouts did you have? We had six Eagle scouts. So, and I can tell you so many Pinewood derbies. I thought I might lose my mind.

[00:47:28] Greg Richardson: Yes.

[00:47:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You almost want to just get a car that wins and use it year after year. We never won by the way. Shoot. Okay. That is so fantastic. Thank you for reciting that. I wanted to be thinking about oaths and Holly, I asked you this question too, because given your profession, talk to me a little bit about oaths.

Like who takes them? Why are they important? Tell us about your profession. For those people listening. Why do you know about oath?

[00:47:54] Holly Richardson: So, so I'm a former Utah legislator, um, and I still professionally follow the legislature and other political things. So I'm the editor of Utah policy, and I'm a columnist for the desert news, but I mostly focus on, uh, politics.

So. It could be really depressing sometimes, but every time someone, um, gets sworn into office, the swearing in is them swearing allegiance to the constitution actually. And, um, it's to the constitution of the United States. And if you're a Utah legislator to the Utah constitution and to defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

And, and so what that means is When you take an oath as a, as a political person, as a, an elected official, what you are saying is that in, in, instead of. Swearing allegiance to any one person or even a political party or an ideology that you are swearing allegiance to the constitution of the United States.

So we can have a long conversation about what's actually happening, but it really it's something that people take seriously. Right? And saying, you know, it's. You, people who joined the military swore the same oath. They, they take on that same role of defending the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

And I come from a military family. I've got military brothers. My dad was a career air force pilot and, and this was, you know, that, that was. It's a culture, right? We just recently had a story in the news about two Navy seals where one fell off and the other one jumped in behind him to save him. And they both ended up dying.

Um, and, and, and it's because you have this really strong sense of duty and commitment, right? That this oath is a promise. Um, That, that

[00:50:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: overrides a lot of other things. That was a perfect explanation of it. And I knew you'd come prepared with that. So thank you. And the reason I asked you to do that is because in the book of Omni, there's a very serious oath that I want to show you now leading up to Omni, we have the book of Jerem.

And we talked about how Enos had some children. He, we know he had a son for sure. And that's found in the book of Jerom chapter one, verse one, he says, now behold, I Jerom write a few words according to the commandment of my father, Enos, that our genealogy might be kept. And it's fascinating to me, Holly, that you would have said if you, if you didn't write it down, it didn't happen.

That seems to be the theme of Jerom and Omni. Yeah, because it's just brother after brother writing saying the only reason I'm writing is I was told to write and then they write. And in fact, I, weren't you just so struck with the brothers when you get to the book of Omni?

[00:50:55] Holly Richardson: Yeah.

[00:50:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And how they all just keep handing it down.

And especially when you get to the one that says, I'm not even that righteous and I'm still doing it. Yeah. Right. That's awesome. You know, and

[00:51:04] Holly Richardson: it's, well, my, I watched him write it and then he gave it to me and, you know, and now I'm going to give it to my brother or my son or whatever it is. Yeah. So that again, that's the one to skip a few.

Cause you go like 190 years or something like that.

[00:51:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, exactly. That's how far we're going to come. So we're going to go all through Jerem. And before we get into the oath in Omni, I'm just curious to know you, because you already pointed out in verse 10 that the Lord did threaten the people of Nephi because of the situation that's going on.

Is there anything else in the book of Jerem that struck you that you want to make sure we cover before we move into Omni? Um,

[00:51:40] Holly Richardson: I, I think in Jerem, so, so he does make sure to say that there were righteous people and, and they listened to the prophets and. And then they kind of went astray and then they listened again.

And, um, in verse eight, he says, we multiplied exceedingly and became exceedingly rich and gold and silver, precious things, fine workmanship in buildings and in machinery, like this was. It's a long time ago, right? That's a word we don't associate with 400 years before Christ in the new world. Um, anyway, and he talks about his weapons and how they did, um, how they tilled the land and things, but, but then it goes back to, and then we have to threaten them again.

So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's the, it's certainly teasing the pride cycle for sure saying, you know, they began to prosper and then they had to be threatened and then they began to prosper and then they had to be threatened. But you

[00:52:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: are so sought on with that idea, this pride cycle, like they had to be threatened and then they repented and they came back around.

In fact, that is exactly what we have going on in German Omni with the people. you go to Jerem one verse 12. We have verse 12. Greg, will you read that for us?

[00:52:53] Greg Richardson: And it came to pass that by so doing, they kept them from being destroyed upon the face of the land. For they did prick their hearts with the word, continually stirring them up unto repentance.

[00:53:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: There it is. Just constantly pricking the heart, stirring the repentance. They do what's right. So we have this pride cycle going on in these chapters and we're covering, like you said, hundreds of years. Then we come to the book of Omni, and And verse one, behold, it came to pass that I Omni being commanded by my father, Jerem, that I should write somewhat upon these plates.

So now these generations are writing, that's where he says he's a wicked man in verse two. I'm a wicked man, but I'm doing it because I was told to totally obedient. I've just gone through and highlighted all of the players in this story and all of the writers who are writing, because once they wrote it down, it happened.

And then we come to this oath. Again, continuing with the pride cycle, and what I want us to do is we're going to go to the book of Omni and we're going to read verses 25 through 26. You probably noticed that I just skipped a lot of verses. Now here's why. Don't panic. We're going to come back to the book of Omni when we get to episode 19 in three weeks and we're going to have an awesome time.

Awesome map. That's going to help explain everything that's going on in these verses when it actually happens in Mosiah. So don't worry. I promise you're going to love it. And the map's going to help a ton because it helped me. So there you go. So now back to 25 and 26, there's an oath in here, and we're going to read what a Malachi is encouraging us to do for an oath to be fulfilled.

Okay. So we are get what we're encouraged to do, and then we're going to get to the oath. So we'll read 25 and 26 Holly, can you read those for us?

[00:54:29] Holly Richardson: And it came to pass that I began to be old and having no seed and knowing King Benjamin to be a just man before the Lord, wherefore I shall deliver up these plates unto him, exhorting all men to come unto God, the Holy one of Israel.

And believe in prophesying, and in revelations, and in the ministering of angels, and in the gift of speaking with tongues, and in the gift of interpreting languages, and in all things which are good. For there is nothing which is good save it comes from the Lord, and that which is evil cometh from the devil.

And now behold, my beloved brethren, I would that you should come unto Christ, Who is the Holy one of Israel and partake of his salvation and the power of his redemption. Yay. Come unto him and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him and continue in fasting and praying and endure to the end. And as the Lord liveth, you will be saved.

[00:55:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. We're going to highlight a couple of things in those verses at the end of verse 26, where it said, as the Lord liveth, that is right there. That is oath prophetic speech form. It's the oath of all oaths as the Lord liveth. So what Amalekai is saying to us right here, he's making an oath to us. It's going to happen, but here are the conditions of this oath.

And you started us out in verse 25 and I'm going to go through this verse with us to mark some things. I'm going to connect them to words. I thought this was really powerful. He says, all right, Malachi says, I don't have any kids, so I have nobody else to hand. We've been handing him down from father to son all of these years.

So now I'm just going to give him to King Benjamin and he's a just man. But then he says, I'm going to deliver the plates unto him, exhorting all men to come unto God, the Holy one of Israel and believe. Let's put a big circle around the word, believe, and we're going to put believe in several places. I like the way this reads when it says, believe in prophesying and believe in revelations and believe in the ministering of angels and believe in the gift of speaking with tongues and believe in the gift of interpreting languages and believe in all things which are good for there is nothing which is good save it comes from the Lord.

I thought it was so powerful to me. To read the, believe in those spaces to remind me of what I'm supposed to believe in. But that word is so important. Just believe, believe, believe. And now here are the conditions in verse 26. And now my beloved brethren, I would that you should, and we have action words, come unto Christ who is the Holy one of Israel, partake of his salvation and the power of his redemption.

Yay. Come unto him. There it is again. Come unto him and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him and continue in fasting and praying. and endure to the end. And then here's the oath as the Lord liveth, you will be saved. Now, as we read those verses right there, it kind of feels like he asks a lot of us.

There's a lot to do. So my question to you is how can we read this and not be overwhelmed with the conditions of this oath?

[00:57:23] Holly Richardson: Yeah, I think, um, that's always the question, right? And And I think one of the things that has been a little bit hopeful for me in the last few years is this recognition that there's something called scrupulosity and, and that that's not a great thing.

That's basically religious OCD, right? That if I pray, Morning and night. Um, that's a good, but if I pray an hour morning and night, that's better than a 15 minute prayer, right? The, just those types of things. And how, how do we come to perfection? If we think that that means we never do anything wrong. Um, and I don't think it means that I think we, we know, I mean, president Nelson has talked about perfection means completion, right?

That we become complete. But I think the endure. Right. Um, enduring is not, I think what I just read recently is something that it's not, it's not holding on with your fingertips while you complain all the way, um, to the end it's

[00:58:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: yeah. Cause it seems futile. Doesn't it? Enduring to the end feels like you're grasping like the cat hang in there.

We had posters in our room as kids,

[00:58:31] Holly Richardson: but yeah, but I think, I think one of the things that I think when it's offering your whole souls as an offering unto him, I think for me, I think a lot of the talk, I think it's elder Maxwell who said, you only have one thing really to give God and that's your will, right.

To put on the altar. And so it's always a little bit for me. Okay. Well, I want to do this. Is this the right thing for me to do? And, you know, let's be honest, a lot of times I don't think God cares. So, so we get to, it's a choose your own adventure story a lot of times. And, and, and sometimes, I mean, for sure, we had clear direction with adding kids to our family, but I have a PhD.

And before I started the program, I actually asked Greg to give me a blessing. And one of the things he said, and the blessing was you do not have to do this. But if you want to, you can, and the Lord will help you. And, and, and I chose to do it. Right. So knowing the whole time I didn't have to do it. It was not set in stone that this was my path.

In fact, I never would have guessed that I would have done it, but, but I think that that's an interesting perspective, right? That there's many things in our lives that we don't necessarily have to. Yeah. Say, oh my gosh, you know, there's only one right choice here. That's not always the case, but, but what does bring me back is to say, is this in alignment with the Lord's will?

Is there something that I want to do that he doesn't want me to do, or it's not the right path to take, right? And sometimes that has been the answer is no, that's not the right path for you to take right now. Sometimes it's not right now. And sometimes it's not ever right.

[01:00:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's a beautiful perspective, Holly.

[01:00:22] Greg Richardson: So I, I love that too. That's, and, and, uh, that's kind of how we've had to, to live our lives. For me, I, the kind of person that I like having a to do list, and I like getting through it and not having things left on the to do list. The list got out of control and there's absolutely no way to get through it.

And, and so you have to prioritize and it's not that anything on the list is bad. It may be that everything on the list is good, but you still have to prioritize and you have to decide what's going to get done and what doesn't get done. And, um, I, I'm, I'm not sure. Um, How we sometimes make those decisions, sometimes it's really, really hard to know what the right thing is, and sometimes it's really, really hard to give up some of the things on the list.

There are things you really want to do, you can't, you have to do something that you don't want to do, because for whatever reason, it's more pressing, it's more important, it's whatever, you've got to, you've got to do it. Maybe sometimes eat your vegetables before you get to eat your dessert.

[01:01:39] Holly Richardson: I'll say one thing that Greg did for our family is, um, he has been working in computers his whole career.

So he graduated. It's now been a number of years from BYU and computer science. And, and he, one of the things that he gave up because of our family was the ability to go work for a startup that maybe would have great potential economically, but it also had higher risk. And because we had kids with disabilities.

We needed to have stable and steady insurance, health insurance for our family. And so he traded. Um, a job that he didn't always love for the stability that we needed as a family, instead of going to like the more exciting startup world. You know, that's something that I've always appreciated from him because it was, I think as he just expressed, it was a way of saying, okay, what, what needs to happen and how can I best make that happen?

Even if what I want is different.

[01:02:43] Greg Richardson: There may be times in life where you get to focus on other things, you know, like, we, we, there was a time in our life where we just didn't have time to do much genealogy work, we, we just didn't have the time, we couldn't eke out the time to do it, now we have more time for that, and yes, it's a good thing, but it may not have been the best thing all the time, so when you're talking about all the things you need to do, I don't know that it necessarily means you have to do them all at once, All at once, all the time.

[01:03:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I think you're absolutely right. And as I'm looking at this verse, we're invited to come and partake and offer our whole souls. But then by love at the end, as it says, Oh, and continue in fasting and praying. Cause I think that's the only thing that gets us. Through all of it anyway, just keep fasting and praying and hang on and dirt at the end, but not in a, not in a death grip, hang on, but just like you got this.

And I, I really appreciate what both of you said, you

[01:03:42] Holly Richardson: keep doing the things. And you know, even in these set of scriptures, we've read, um, several accounts about how many words there are that, that more detail is, you know, in the larger plates, but, but war is bad and war is traumatic. And seeing dead bodies is traumatic and losing your loved ones is traumatic, right?

And sexual violence part of war, and it has been since war existed, right? So, so we're talking about some really hard stuff. So how do you get through those? You keep doing the same things, right? You keep trying, you go through the grief and you stay anchored. Um, to what you know to be true. And I, I've shared this before, but when we lost our kids, I, I've had times in the grief process where it is totally black for me.

I don't feel the Holy ghost. I don't, I feel like my prayers are bouncing off the ceiling, but I keep doing the things that I know I'm supposed to because I know the light will return and it does, but you have to get through the block.

[01:04:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Thank you, Holly. Thank you, Greg. Well, and in what you've just said there, that idea of trauma and darkness, someone who totally knows and understands that is Mormon.

And if you're thinking that's crazy, what's, because we don't hear about him until the end of the book of Mormon, he gets to interject and we're going to read some of his words in the next segment.

Segment 6

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[01:05:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So the words of Mormon are just steeped in trauma. He is. It's destitute. It is sad for him. And his, he's telling us in verse one, I'm Mormon being about to deliver up the record, which I have been making into the hands of my son Moroni. And he says, behold, I have witnessed almost all the destruction of my people, the Nephites.

I mean, just like you said, Holly, this is devastating and he is knows he doesn't have much time left. And so he is going to give his plates to his son Moroni. But he's going to write a little bit right here. He kind of interjects. And I think what's so fascinating about this is that it's roughly a thousand years after Lehi and his family have left Jerusalem.

That's how much time is spanned in these short pages. Everyone write that on your page somewhere because a thousand years have been gone. Just sit with that for a minute when we get to these words of Mormon. So we have a thousand years here. And Mormon's got something to say. So let's go to the book of words of Mormon.

Only one chapter. We're going to read verse three and Greg, can you read verse three for us? Cause Mormon does something and he tells us what he does in this verse.

[01:06:21] Greg Richardson: And now I speak somewhat concerning that which I have written for after I had made an abridgment from the plates of Nephi down to the reign of this King Benjamin, of whom Malachi, spake, I searched among the records which had been delivered into my hands, and I found these plates which contained the small account of the prophets, from Jacob down to the reign of this king Benjamin, and also many of the words of Nephi.

[01:06:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, here we go. This just blew my mind because here's Mormon and he's saying, all right, I've got these plates. Now he finds these plates and I don't know if anyone can remember this, but clear back when we did first Nephi chapter nine, when you go in and you look at first Nephi nine, we marked the phrase, these plates and other plates.

And every time you see these plates, anytime in the book of Mormon, we're talking about the small plates of Nephi. And when you see other plates, we're talking about the large plates. So he says he's going to take these small plates. Which are the ones that he has taken the time to a bridge and it could not have been easy.

Like he probably spent time abridging these plates. In fact, he says in verse five, a hundredth part, like there's so much that he's taken the time to a bridge. And I just think this is, this kind of blows my mind. Because why is he doing this? It just seems like it could have been so much more simpler for the Lord to change the future maybe change people's choices because he gets done abridging these and he's like, Oh, and then there's all these other plates and I'm going to also use those.

And then he gives us this verse in chapter one, verse seven, Holly, can you read verse seven? He's like, I'm not sure why I had to abridge these and why I'm going to include these plates. And here we go.

[01:08:02] Holly Richardson: It's one of my favorites. And I do this for a wise purpose, for thus it whispereth me according to the workings of the Spirit of the Lord which is in me.

And now I do not know all things, but the Lord knoweth all things which are to come, wherefore he worketh in me to do according to his will.

[01:08:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Why is that one of your favorites?

[01:08:20] Holly Richardson: We just don't know. Right. And this is, this is really reminiscent of Nephi and, and his dream of the tree where the angel asked him, you know, do you know the meaning?

And he goes, no, no, but I know the Lord loves his children. Right. And, and there's, yeah, I think for me so many times, like I have no idea. Why we were supposed to do X, Y, Z, or why we didn't do X, Y, Z. Right. And, and sometimes over time we get answers and sometimes we don't. It's heartening. I think to see that there are prophets who also say, I don't know why I was supposed to do this.

Well, you know, 116 pages later, right?

[01:09:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. So let's point that out. So it says right here, when he says I made an abridgment from the plates of Nephi, Let's be very clear. The reason he had to make the abridgment is because those are going to be the hundred and sixteen pages that get lost. And so, I'm just like, couldn't God have just made sure that, like, it all worked out?

And that Martin Harris's wife hadn't asked for the, I don't know, like, it's just crazy that God knows. Oh, yeah, we're gonna lose 116 pages. So, we're also gonna need the small plates.

[01:09:31] Holly Richardson: We need to duplicate. Yeah. Yeah, we need a duplicate.

[01:09:35] Greg Richardson: So, I think that's true, but I think there's other, maybe, Maybe. Less obvious meanings there too.

You know, I, I believe that these stories were picked because we need to hear them in our day. There's, there's specific messages that understanding what we're going through, what the world is like today, that these stories were picked out specifically for us to hear these stories.

[01:10:04] Holly Richardson: Yeah. I mean, by the time, by the time Mormon is writing this, He says right there, most of his people have been destroyed and he assumes that Moroni is going to see the final destruction and he.

is writing these plates for our day. They're not for his people, right. Not his contemporaries. They're for us today. And you know, so, so yeah, I mean, I think, I think that's true and why, again, we'll go back to the records. Why is it so important to keep records? One of the things that stood out to me this time, and it's, it's not in Mormon.

I think it was in But when they come across the, the people in Zarahemla, the Mulekites, and they talk about Coriantum are, he comes with a large stone and I had never realized that before because a lot of the story of ether is on plates of ore, but Coriantum has a large stone. Well, honey, that's gotta be hieroglyphics on the stone, right?

That he brings in and figure out how to read it and, and, and just how important that is.

[01:11:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. And so I, I think right to your point, Holly. It's how the spirit works with us. It might not tell us exactly word for word, but it gives us promptings, impressions, ideas, all of that. And that is what is so cool about how the spirit works.

That's the message for me for Mormon is he's like, I don't know everything, but the spirit does and the Lord does. And he's just going to prompt me in a certain direction. And when I read this, of course I thought the two of you, I didn't even know you were coming on this episode. By the way, until like, of course I always invite people first and then I go read the scriptures and I invited you and read this verse and I thought there has to be a story or two about a time when you had an experience with verse seven when it truly was.

You're like, I don't know why we're doing this, but it has to be a wise purpose in the Lord. And you follow the prompting. Do you have a story?

[01:11:53] Holly Richardson: There's gotta be a gazillion, but Greg can start

[01:11:57] Greg Richardson: or a bunch. So I'll start with, uh, when I decided to actually made the decision to marry Holly. Um, Holly was the temple coordinator in our singles ward and, uh, she had arranged a temple trip up to Salt Lake and, uh, nobody came but me and her.

And I don't know why we just, but those are the two of us. And, and we went through and, uh, we were coming down the stairs from the celestial room and, and we stopped for a moment on the stairs and I had, uh, uh, a message come into my head that, that it reminds me of in fourth Nephi chapter verses 15 and 16 talking about the, the people.

After Christ came and it said there could not have been a happier people And the message was there's you cannot be happier than this this is this is it and this is happiness and uh, and And so I knew That, that was what I knew.

[01:13:14] Holly Richardson: So let's be clear. We were dating. This wasn't out of the blue.

[01:13:21] Greg Richardson: It wasn't planned that it would just,

[01:13:23] Holly Richardson: but it wasn't planned. Yeah. That part wasn't planned. And, and, and I think Greg had been wondering, you know, if, if there was going to be some kind of other sign or something, and you know, this was, I was, I was, I was a little, uh, More open about my interest in marrying him, but I had also gotten a mission call actually, and because he had was dragging his feet, I was headed out.

Yeah. This changed my plans, but

[01:13:54] Tammy Uzelac Hall: yeah, I guess it did

[01:13:57] Greg Richardson: if I won and And it talks about how all the everything was good. No in beings. No strives. No Tomo Tomo two molts, etc Etc. And surely there could not be a happier people among all the people who had been created by the hand of God And that was how I felt about being with Holly.

[01:14:18] Holly Richardson: He's sweet. So sweet So, I think, again, you know, this goes back to the, that hasn't meant that we haven't had difficulties, right? As raising a family, but in even, you know, we, we have to. Learn and grow in our relationships too. And if I were the same person that he married 38 years ago, that would be weird because we've both changed and grown a lot, right?

And sometimes that comes with uncomfortable, um, growing pains and, and other things. Um, I think like it's easy to share adoption stories because. They're, um, they, they seem so dramatic. So I've actually been trying to think of one that's a little less dramatic, but let me share our first adoption story because it's one of the most powerful spiritual moments I ever had in my life.

So it's really funny. People say, well, how did you start adopting? Well, we, we did some foster care when we lived in Washington for a year and a half, and that was. Something that felt like, yeah, we, we always were meant to do this, even though it hadn't really been on our radar. And we moved back to Utah.

And I had literally just given birth to my 3rd child in December of 1989. And on Christmas day of 1989, Nicolae Ceausescu and his wife, Elena were executed in Romania. But anyway, we. We started to hear new stories about orphans in Romania, and I, this is in the late 1980s. I did not know there were still orphanages in the world.

I was naive. I admit, but I just didn't know. I was just stunned. And, and we just thought, Oh my gosh. I wonder if we could adopt and then, you know, life, we had three little kids. We moved back to Utah. Greg changed jobs. We bought our first house. We're just like, it's just not possible. It's not in the cards.

We can't afford it. We can't do it. But in December of 1990, so this has now been, um, about a year and. Greg was, uh, watching TV and called me in and said, you got to come see this. And it was a 2020 show with Barbara Walters. And they were talking about, um, a year since the execution of Ceaușescu and, and there were, um, couples who had successfully adopted from Romania and there were, um, I just sat there and I was just on fire with the Holy Ghost, right?

It was undeniable. And just wave after wave. And I said, uh, I need to go. And Greg said, I know. And a few weeks later I was in Romania. And this is where we didn't know. I didn't know if we'd be successful. I didn't know how we were going to pay for it. I didn't know how long I would be there. It turned out it was eight and a half weeks and I left a nursing baby at home.

I mean, but, but I look back on that and say, Because that was so overwhelming. That was one of the experiences, probably one of the, the most powerful spiritual experiences I've had. And it keeps me going when I say, Oh my gosh, what were we thinking? Well, we knew that this was what we were supposed to do.

And, and God knew what we were bringing in. Right. And that we could, we could gain skills and, you know, uh, grow and love and. Um, and have an impact, right? But, but that, that experience was so strong, but here's one of the downsides, right? So that was the, uh, elder Bednar flipped the light on. It was just so overwhelming.

Well, other answers for other adoptions, nothing has ever been like that before, um, that strong since then. And so then it was like, Am I, am I getting revelation? Like, I don't even know. And then it was learning to listen to smaller promptings, right? To the, the dark room becoming lighter or the, you know, you're dreaming that not all of your kids are there and you've got to go find them.

And once we completed our family, like I don't have those dreams anymore. And I don't think Greg does either. It was just one of those little pieces that was part of how we created our family. But, but there's, I think there's lots of things with,

you know, whether it's an employment or, um, Education, schooling, those types of things where we just take one step and then if that's the right step, the light appears right in the path appears. I mean, that's for me, that has been what has happened way more often than flipping the light switch on. And so I would say many of our decisions in our life have been, uh, we're going to take the stuff.

We have no idea how it's going to work out.

[01:19:14] Greg Richardson: Yeah. We're Or we were forced to take steps that we didn't understand what the consequences were going to be.

[01:19:22] Holly Richardson: Right. And, and I will say, I'll say this. We gave birth, I gave birth to, um, uh, our second child was born with really severe disabilities. And that was, you Not on my list of stuff I wanted to deal with in this lifetime.

And it was, as Greg said, kind of thrust upon us, right? Because we just gave birth to this daughter. And, and I was like, I just, I didn't understand. And I was like, Heavenly father, I told you when I was in nursing school, I could not handle being a mom of kids with disabilities. First of all, that's really dumb.

Don't ever say that, but because you know, pretty But, but, you know, it was, it turned out to be such a great blessing and she was the one because of her disabilities and teaching us how to love a child with disabilities. So who was different from, I guess what you would consider maybe the normal mold. Um, we, that's what allowed me to open my heart to kids from all over the world, all kinds of different backgrounds, right.

Was Elizabeth's birth. which I thought was a curse. Um, I love Lizzie, but, but I thought was God cursing me when she was born. And, and then by the time she passed away, I mean, it was clear that she came to To change our family fundamentally for the rest of eternity. And she did it. And I, and I just, I mean, that's one of the things that I just can't wait to see her in heaven where I can talk to her and say, you know, thank you for leading the way.

[01:20:59] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And there's the wise purpose. Wow. That's beautiful. Yep. Thank you for sharing that. I feel that so strongly in my heart right now where you're just like, really, why I don't get it. And you just taught it beautifully. So thank you, Holly and Greg. That was a beautiful episode. I appreciated all of your stories and for you coming so well prepared.

So we just ask our guests at the end of every episode to just share with us, what is your takeaway from today's discussion? Um, what will you remember or maybe what will you teach when you get to teach it this next week? When you have it, just go ahead and share just a quick two sentence takeaway.

[01:21:36] Greg Richardson: Well, like always, Holly is far more articulate and, uh, she just is just wonderful at, uh, collecting her thoughts and expressing herself.

Well, I'm just very, very proud of you. You do an awesome job. Uh, she's our, uh, Our communications talent and I just thought, um, so, but, but with regard to the actual stuff we talked about, um, you know, there's just some great lessons in there. And for me, the big takeaway is, is love. and love of the Lord, love of your family, love of your enemies.

And, uh, and you, you just gotta keep plowing through it and you do it with, with love and whatever grace you can muster. And you can't do it without the help of the Lord.

[01:22:26] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Amen. Wow. That is good. Um,

[01:22:35] Holly Richardson: I, I think One of the things that I'll be thinking about for a little while is profits threatening. So, and, and maybe not in a bad way, but, but maybe You know, I, I want to ask myself, do I take it seriously when the prophet says you need to increase your faith?

Do I take that seriously? I'm really busy. I don't know if I have time right to really work on this, but it was the first time that that really stood out to me. And he, he repeated it a couple of times that they really had to work with the people and And how easy it is for us to just, you know, veer off the side somewhere.

And, you know, how can I keep myself grounded? How can I keep myself? Um, in line of being willing to a put my will on the altar and be just take the long view because I'm just not going to know all the stuff all the time as much as I want to.

[01:23:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That was my takeaway. And I wrote that in my scriptures, God plays a long game.

And I think that is really important for everybody to remember. He does. I thought that was so powerful. And Greg, I'm going clear back to how we started. I mean, Enos's mom. I'd never seen her in verse one until we hit that. And you pointed that out and I put, I highlighted nurture and I drew a line and I said, Mom, I just think she might've played something into his saying the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

I mean, who better to teach that? So thanks for pointing that out. What a great discussion. You two are awesome. I love you both. Thank you. Thank you. You are awesome too. It's a lot of fun to talk with you. Okay. Oh my gosh. Boy, that was such a good discussion. I love those two. Okay. What was your takeaway? Bye.

So go join our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram to share what you've learned. You can even ask questions that I like to answer. And so does the whole community from Sunday on Monday. So go ask a question. Then at the end of the week on a Saturday, we post a question from this specific episode.

So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on LDS, living. com slash Sunday on Monday, and Go there anyway, because it's where we're going to have links to all the references and a transcript of this whole discussion.

So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday study group is a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our beautiful study group participants were Greg and Holly Richardson. And you can find more information about my friends at LDS living.

com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember that you are God's favorite.