The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

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Segment 1

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Back in section 37 when the Lord commanded the saints to move to Ohio, they moved. The church was only about six months old, so there were no manuals, no study guides, no leadership training meetings or broadcasts of general conference. In fact, they didn't even have enough copies of the Book of Mormon to go around sections 42 through 56, which there's a total of 15 revelations.

All those sections deal with better organizing the church and resolving disputes between members and combating the influences of false spirits and deceivers among members. All of this should sound familiar from what we've been studying. You could almost say that these sections are kind of like the earliest general handbook of instruction for the church.

And this week as we study doctrine and covenants, sections 46 through 48. We will discover doctrine so vital to the organization of the Saints and Christ Church that the correct understanding of it is something we still rely on today. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the come Follow Me lesson for the week, and we really dig into the scriptures together.

I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description that will explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come Follow Me study. Just like my longtime listening friends Sophia Tag. Hello, Sophia. Now, another awesome thing about our group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different.

And today, ho ho. Well, we have an original back. We're so excited. Hello, Sharmaine Howell. Hello, Tammy. How are you? I'm good. I missed your face. So good to see you. It's good to see you. I miss you. And Shar, you brought a friend today. I said, Shar, who should we have on the podcast? I'm gonna let you choose. She always does such a good job and I'm thrilled about this.

We have Kacey Ableman. Hello. Nice to meet you. Okay, Shar, how do you know Kacey? Oh my gosh. Kacey is my friend. She lives here in my ward. Tammy. I actually have friends since moving to Minnesota. This is proof, like finally. Course you do. Look at this. Listen, this is like making my heart melt [00:02:00] to have like my two worlds meet each other.

I love it so much. Worlds are colliding. Yeah, Kacey happy, but Kacey is amazing. She's, she's overly qualified to do this. I'm not sure about that, but I am Shar's friend and I love Shar, so I'm doing this for her. I love that you guys met in the ward. That makes me so happy. Kacey is also my kids. Um, piano, four of my five kids, piano teacher.

She gets to deal with my kids on a weekly basis. She is amazing musician and she's all things talent in the music world. So we're solo lucky. I love getting, I love getting Shar's kids in my house and every now and then I get to even teach her oldest son when I sub an orchestra at the high school. So some weeks I get all five of Shar's kids.

Yeah. Yeah. The party never stops for Kacey. Wow. When you said four of your five, I was like, which one isn't taking, I thought Shirley Mackay isn't anymore. Right. He probably fought that battle and won. Yeah. Teenager. Yeah. Yeah. So Baby Ruth is taking, she started this year, isn't it? So fun. How old is Ruth?

She's seven. What? Yeah, almost eight. Yeah. Stop it. So great. Oh my gosh. Okay, well this can be a fun discussion Kacey, really quickly just tell our listeners a little bit about you kids married, when and musical background. Yeah. So I am in Minneapolis with Shar and I live here with my husband and my three sons.

They are. Um, how old are they? I don't know. 13, 15 and 17. Almost 13, 15 and 17. So we spend a lot of money at Costco, basically, is the short of that. Sure. Mm-hmm. Um, and I'm a music teacher. I've been a musician in, um, different forms throughout my life. I've been a, sometimes I've been a performing musician.

I've taught in schools and currently I'm mostly a private music teacher and, um, that I love. It keeps me super busy and it brings me so much joy. So that is my current, current life. Are you the ward organist? I'm not actually my primary instrument, Shar actually plays organ much more than I do. [00:04:00] I, I shy away from that one.

Pathetic. I'm actually primarily a flutist and somehow have become a piano teacher. I'm not quite sure how that occurred. And the ward singing time specialist that we will never really, so yeah, I When you find a good one, music? Yes. Yeah. Wow. That's awesome. Okay, this is gonna be a fun discussion today.

Mm-hmm. Especially when we get in and we really dig into section 46. I'm looking forward to what you guys have to bring to that discussion. I think it's gonna be good. So if you wanna know more about my guests and see their pictures, go find them in our show notes, which are found at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday.

So grab your scriptures and something to mark them with. And we're gonna dig into sections 46 through 48. Okay. Right outta the gate. YouTube, what did the Holy Ghost teach you as you read these sections? Well, I was really struck by how much God is looking for ways to bless us and just trying to find every excuse to include us and bring us in.

Um, I noticed this especially in section 46, um, verse nine, where he is talking about the gifts of the spirit. He's talking about these best gifts and he says, for verily, I say unto you, they are given for the benefit of those who love me and keep all my commandments and him that seeketh. So to do that all may be benefited.

That seek or that ask of me that ask and not for a sign. And he continues on, but he's looking for any excuse to bless us. And then he makes it so clear that he expects us to be doing that same thing. He says four separate times to not be casting anyone out. He says that in different ways in verses 3, 4, 5, and six.

Don't cast anyone out of a public meeting or don't cast members out of SA meetings. Don't cast anyone out of SA meeting. And then as if we like, aren't quite sure, just in case we didn't get that in 46 6, he's like, if they're not a member but they are seeking, really don't cast them out. And I just [00:06:00] was really struck by that, that he, he wants us to be included and he wants the church the way the church operates to reflect that, to reflect that message of inclusion.

I love that Kacey. Mm-hmm. In fact, next to verse nine, I underlined Zika soda. Do. That's one of my favorite lines in scripture. Mm-hmm. But I love how you pointed out that it's God looking for any excuse to bless us. I just, that is so cool. And it connects to the talk about being in relentless pursuit of us.

Like that that absolutely is right there from other Kiran. Like he's, even, even those who seek of soda do aren't even good at it. Oh, I, I think that's awesome. Thank you for teaching me that. Oh, I love that. It's so good. The thing that, um. One of the things that stood out to me was just that thought of asking of God, and it says it at the very beginning of 46 verse seven, but you're commanded in all things to ask of God.

And I know that like each of these revelations and sections is given because they're asking God questions, right? Mm-hmm. So we, we've known that for all these different, um, lessons, but I just love that thought that God's like, I'm here. Just ask me whatever you want, whatever you wanna know, and I'll give it to you liberally, whatever you want to be given, what gifts you want.

I just wanna give it to you, kind of like what Kacey is saying. He's looking for excuse to bless us, but we have to ask too sometimes. So he's just like, just, just put it out there like, I'm listening. I'm ready to get it. Put it out there and ask me and I will be listening. And, um, I just. God doesn't God and the Spirit and Jesus Christ, they do not sleep.

They are constantly waiting. They're not taking breaks on us. So they're ready to be listening to us whenever we wanna ask whatever it is. Questions, um, you know, thoughts, concerns, asking for help, asking for these gifts. We just need to ask him. Keisha, I have a question because I wanna, when you, I love how you just said that, that you really can't ask him.

How do you think it would change the way we say our prayers if we went into [00:08:00] every prayer believing what you just taught us? Yeah. I probably would start every prayer. Not laying in my bed, I would get down and be like, okay, this is actually real. This is, yeah, he is really listening to me and I can act, I can really get an answer.

And so often I think we just say, well, this is what it is. Or this is the, this is the talents that I've been dealt in life. And too bad. That's not quite enough, right? Mm-hmm. And there's so much more in store for us. There's so much more we can become. And, and as long as we ask him, we don't have to settle for being a subpar version of ourself that we're a little bit disappointed in.

I know. I feel like that frequently we can just say, I need this gift, I need this help. And, um, it would definitely change my prayers to, to believe that every time I started a prayer. Well, I love that ard, especially because there's no qualifier here, right? Yeah. He's not saying, ask about this or make sure you ask about how to conduct your secret meetings or ask how to be a mother.

He's saying ask in all things. Mm-hmm. Um, and that I will give liberally, and I think sometimes we don't really believe, I mean, we know, we know that he cares about everything, but sometimes we think, oh, that, that doesn't matter quite enough to pray about. Or, you know, like you said, Shar, well, this is just how it is.

This is just how I am. And God's saying like, no, I want to hear everything. I want you to ask me everything. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Brilliantly said, I like that Kacey, in fact, underline or circle the word liberally in verse seven. This is what the Holy Ghost taught me when I was preparing. So I'm so glad you went to this verse, Shar.

So the word liberally, when I read it, I'm like, I already know what that means. It means freely. But then I looked it up because I love the 1828 Webster's dictionary. It would've been the same vernacular of Joseph Smith's time. And the word liberally does mean freely. It also means bountifully. And then I thought, oh, like a bountiful [00:10:00] harvest.

Like he will give you bountifully. But then this was also cool. Not only does he give you liberally, freely bountifully, but this, the other part of that is without motive. Now, that was awesome. Like there's no motive for him. He's, he's just because he loves you. He loves you, he loves you. So ask and he's going to give to you bountifully.

And I think that is so cool. And then it goes to that scripture you shared Kacey well, but what about so and so? Or what about I don't do this well enough, da da da. It's okay. Even those who seek a so to do, he's going to give to you bountifully. So that's, that was what Holy Ghost taught me on that one. So thank you ladies.

That was awesome. I love that. That's so good. Wow. Okay, so this is gonna be such a spirit-filled section, and I'm really looking forward to this discussion because we are gonna jump into section 46 in the current general handbook of the church. The very last section, section 38, addresses some of the same issues that the Early Saints we're dealing with.

So in the next segment, we're gonna discover what one of those first issues was. We'll do that next.

Segment 2

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Shar. Kacey, my question for you is when you moved to Minnesota or when you first started going to the ward you're in, what made you feel welcome in your ward? Like is there a moment or a situation? I have one from actually very recently, just 'cause this has been on my mind. Oh, wow. Um, that made me realize how welcome I am in my ward.

It was actually this last Sunday. So this, this question has been, I've been thinking about this section. Mm-hmm. And on the way to church, I look down and two out of my three children are wearing sweatpants. And as a recollection of their ages. 15 and 17, not five and seven. Right. So we had had this whole discussion the day before about getting laundry done and anyway, so I was pretty frustrated at them.

Wait, they were wearing sweatpants to church, sweat sweatpants to church. Yeah, they were black. So, you know, [00:12:00] that's, that's a And and maybe white socks. Maybe white like lovers or so, and I'm still wearing tennis shoes as well, but the church shirt was tucked in. It was to the sweatpants. It was barely a church shirt though, also like it had a collar, but that was about as close as we got.

So anyway, and we, this had just come off the heels of me, seriously. We had this whole discussion about doing laundry. So that was where my head was at. But, um, and while I was frustrated at them for that, it didn't even occur to me to, to turn around to, to be late, to not go to church. It didn't occur to me that any of my friends would be like, frustrated at the example they were setting, or I just knew I didn't.

I realize, you know, I'm not even at all nervous. I'm not feeling judged. I feel like we can just come as we are this Sunday and nobody will care. They're just so happy that they're there. And I'm just so grateful to be part of a congregation where I feel like I can show up as I am. And some weeks that is just stellar.

Sometimes we are on time and we are clean and we are dressed, dressed and more often, you know, one of us is in sweatpants and one of us is late. And, and we just got in an argument in the car and I, I still feel, um, so loved by my congregation. And so how we do that, I'm not quite sure, but starting off by just not judging each other and just mm-hmm.

Just accepting people as we are. Yeah. I love that. That story was so good. I would've turned around for sure. Thank you for sharing that. I love it. I won't turn around. That is, and to go to a ward where, you know, like. Here, we, you know what? Come up May. Here we are. Come up May and love it. This is my family and you weren't judged.

Oh, that is so cool, Kacey. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, I love that. Do you have one Shar? Yeah. Mine is actually a little bit more recently too. And um, I was gone over a Sunday, over a, over a weekend and I wasn't able to go and a new couple just barely moved into our ward. And I had reached out to [00:14:00] her like on their moving day and I was like, how's it going?

Do you need help? And she'd like, she was, she was pretty, uh, um, organized and under control and she's like, yeah, we got it all figured out, you know? And that's about the extent of me knowing her. And the Sunday I was gone, she texted me and she was like, Hey, I didn't see you at church today. This is like her second or third Sunday in church.

And she's like, hope you're doing good. Hope you're not home with sick kids. Just. Just checking in. And it really hit me that I was like, you know what? That is so cool that, you know, sometimes we move into a new ward and we wait to be fully welcomed and we're like, oh, we're the newbie. We can't do much.

Mm-hmm. Yet nobody knows me. People should reach out to me. And she showed me a huge example of how important it is to turn around and look out immediately and to find people and to notice people and how important it is and how good it feels to be noticed. And so, um, I just think, like, I was like, I need to do that better.

She's rocking it. So, um, shout out to that woman, the fact that she even remembered your name to look it up on the gospel tools. I Right. What? That's impressive. Yeah. Well, this is so neat because I dare say that your, both of your experiences probably wouldn't have been found in the early days of the church based on section 46.

Right. We just wanna go there really quickly and look at this, even the section heading. So turn to the doctrine and cabinet section 46. And in the section heading, it was given in March 8th, 1831. So the church is barely a year old. And it says in this early time of the church, a unified pattern for conducting church services had not yet been developed.

However, a custom of admitting only members and earnest investigators to the sacrament meetings and other assemblies of the church had become somewhat general. So can you imagine just kicking people out who mm-hmm. Maybe are dropping on by and, and, and I just think that, but it sounds like it was customary, like maybe they were used to that in a lot of different churches.

Like, if you don't really belong to our church, I don't know why you're here, you know? I to [00:16:00] No, I totally think you're right. In fact, at the very end of this section heading, it says, the revelation expressed the will of the Lord relative to governing and conducting meetings and his direction on seeking and discerning gifts of the spirit.

So we have those two. We'll talk about gifts of the spirit later, but on how to conduct meetings and who's welcome. I like that input, Shar. It may have been what they're just used to. Only me members only can come in and serious investigators. Well, and like thinking of like their past couple months of, you know, not being treated well and they're trying to baptize, get baptized, and there's mobs that I, I would imagine it would be easy to say, oh, oh, I don't recognize you.

Maybe you shouldn't come in today. Like you might be cared to cause trouble. Like, what's your motive? Don't what your motive. Why are you here? Right, right. But God doesn't have motive when he gives. Right. That's what you taught. Taught us. He does not have motive. Oh, that is so good. In fact, let's read how little motive he has.

We're gonna read verses three through six. Shar, will you read those for us? Yeah. Nevertheless, you are commanded never to cast anyone out from your public meetings, which are held before the world. You're also commanded not to cast anyone who belongs to the church out of your sacrament meetings.

Nevertheless, if any have trespassed, let him not partake until he makes reconciliation. And again, I say unto you, you shall not cast anyone outta your sacrament meetings who are earnestly seeking the kingdom. I speak this concerning those who are not of the church. And again, I say unto you concerning your confirmation meetings, that if there be any that are not of the church that are earnestly seeking after the church, you shall not cast them out.

Thank you. I love that you emphasize the word never in verse three. Mm-hmm. Let's highlight that word. Why did you emphasize it? Well, there's just no excuses. There's no reason to ever, that's what that means, right? Mm-hmm. And I think Shar, you had such a generous reading of this thinking that like, oh, there is, there is reason that they might hesitate to bring someone in that they don't recognize.

And that's such a generous reading. 'cause I was being kind of judgy when I read it. I'm like, I can't believe that they were kicking people up. But you're right. Like they had just [00:18:00] gone through a lot and they had a real reason to be wary. Mm-hmm. And we always can find reasons, right? We're too busy, we're, we're tired that day.

We have too much on our plate, we're nervous about meeting other people. Like it's pretty easy mm-hmm. To come up with legitimate reasons, to not, hopefully we're not casting people out, but to make people feel less than included. And that's just such a clear cut. We don't, we don't get so many clear cut commitments all the time.

And that one is just, wow. Never, no exceptions. Not ever. Yeah. So tell me what these verses look like in a latter day Saint Ward today, because I will tell you this, when I've had the benefit or the awesome experience of going to other wards and people come up to me and say, oh, are you new in the ward?

Like, I love that. That is so fabulous. And then I'm like, no, I'm a card carrying member. You know, whatever. No, I'm good. I'm, I'm just here 'cause I'm outta town. You know, whatever it is. But I love it when people come up and say, are you new? It seems like we're really good at that. Anybody who walks in we're so excited to welcome.

But can it be more than that? Can it be more than just finding the drifters? What are we talking about here? Yeah. Yeah. I remember be when I was the gospel doctrine teacher and there was a I, it might have been this section, and I asked the question, how are we doing this award? Welcoming people. It was like that simple.

And I was expecting the answer. Great. We're so good at it. And a hand shot up in the front row and it was like, I don't think we're doing very well. And I was like, oh crap. I didn't see it going this way. Yeah. I didn't plan for that. I'm like, really? Why? Why are we not uhoh? Oh, but it's, it's more of a, what'd you do?

Uh, I just, I don't know. I just cried and walked out. You did not. Tara is such a good gospel doctor, teacher Uhhuh, as you can imagine. No, but it was, um, that thought of there is more that we can do and, um, it's more than just saying Hi, a friendly voice. It's, it's. [00:20:00] Finding out who they are. It's figuring out their story and being there if you can be.

And I love, I just love thinking about the sign on our buildings that says those visitors welcome. And for a long time I kind of thought that was for the visitors to know, like, oh, if you're happy to drive by and you see that sign from off the Street, you can know that you're welcome to walk in here. But I think it's more of a reminder to me that as I walk in each day and I see that sign, that I can know that anybody in there can be in there in whatever situation they are in life and they're welcome and I need to figure out how to welcome them better.

Mm-hmm. And I love that. You know, verse four is talking about people who might feel unworthy. And verse five is talking about investigators. Verse six, talking about people who aren't members of the church or maybe they're members of different religions and anybody is welcome and I need to remember that and find that way to, to do better at welcoming them.

I like that so much. We just had an experience the other day, Shar, where we were walking down, um, the hall of the church. And one of my sons is like, oh, it smells like cigarette smoke in here. And of course I give him like the stinky eye, like, oh, let's maybe not say that quite so loud. Um, because probably that's because somebody was nearby that was smoking it.

But it opened up a great opportunity for us to discuss that on the way home from church that like, what kind of an amazing thing to experience while at church. There's somebody there who is really, really trying, who might not feel like everybody else. And so we talked about why maybe saying that loudly would not make somebody feel included.

And that pointing out, you know, somebody's weakness isn't ideal. And that's such like an obvious one, but we all have our, our quiet ones, of course. Mm-hmm. Um, but what a fantastic thing that that person felt welcome enough to come and that instead of being like, oh, that's annoying. Be like, oh, how, how great that they are here.

Yeah. Kacey, can I just take a minute and say how much I love your perspective and that you used it as a teaching moment? That is so cool how you taught your kids about that [00:22:00] and had a conversation. That is awesome. Thank you. I just love that. There was also something that I loved in verse three, and you emphasized never, never to cast anyone out from your public meetings, but this part which are held before the world.

And that just struck me right there because then I realized, I think the Lord's setting this up by saying, you all are an example for the world of how you treat each other. And now, now that you know that before the world, let me give you some instruction on what that's going to look like because I need you to be an example of people who welcome in love and give liberally.

I think that's so awesome. It reminds me of when Lily, I signed my daughter Lily up for a ballet class and she was four and she was so nervous and I, I remember thinking, Hey, this is, this is a big deal 'cause I'm not a dance mom, none of our sisters dance. But she really wanted to take ballet. So we borrowed a leotard from her cousin, who is a professional dancer, and she put on these pink tights and a blue leotard, four years old.

I pulled her hair up and put a bun on the top of her head. She was really scared to go in. And we were running a little bit late and we got to the ballet class and it was like at the Draper community, it wasn't even a, like a real dance place. Like it was, what do you even call it? Rec center? Yeah, there it is.

Rec center, ballet class for four and five year olds. And I can remember, I, um, we walk in and I'm nervous for her 'cause already the girls have formed a group and you know. I, I don't know what's gonna happen here. And she walks in super shy, very hesitant, and she stands there and one of the girls looks over her and goes, huh?

And runs over to Lily and goes, you look so pretty like a ballerina. Come be our friend. And pulled my daughter's hand over to the group of girls. And after that she was like, I'm in. I love ballet. I mean, she only took five classes and then we quit. But I loved that moment where she just was like, because she's like, mom, I don't have a body for ballet.

This is true. You're gonna be six feet tall. But she [00:24:00] loved because she was like, they made me feel so welcome. And I just think of that all the time. Like if we could have every Sunday be where you look at someone and go, huh, you look so pretty. Yeah, come be my friend. And we just grab them by the hand and take them with us to Sunday School Relief Society, or sit by them or whatever it is.

I just think. I think that's what the Lord's looking for in these verses like, let's just embrace this and, and I love how you said Shar visitors welcome. We're not just talking about people off the street. We're all visitors in some way. So Yeah, totally. I love that. Even, even each other who are members of the church, it's a good reminder that sometimes we don't feel welcome within our own ward and maybe there's something going on in our life or we're just struggling or having a struggle with faith or just a hard time in life.

Right. And we're exhausted. Yep. Um, I remember once this is, um, so something maybe we shouldn't do, but I remember once I got all ready for a church and I was doing my very best and I was trying to look my very best and I really tried that day. Um, I wasn't wearing sweats that day. She usually does, but Right.

And somebody walked up to me in the hallway and like grabbed my shoulder and they were like, are you doing okay? 'cause you just look so tired. And I was like. Wow. I was like, I really am trying. So I guess there's good ways and bad ways to say things to people. Mm-hmm. But mm-hmm. I think giving everybody benefited doubt that we're all like trying so hard.

Yeah. You know? And within our own ward, like just being there for people, being their friend. Tell 'em they look pretty. Dang it. Yes. Tell 'em them look pretty. Oh, sure. Thank you for sharing that story. Well, this discussion is gonna go nicely into our next portion of our discussion because one of the things is, is we are all this family together where we just need to work in harmony.

And I think that's why the Lord included let everybody in and then he is gonna teach us about these gifts coming up next. So. Lemme say this before we go into the next segment. It wasn't long after the Saints gathered in Ohio in 1831, that questions began to arise about certain [00:26:00] practices or behaviors of some of the members of the church.

Now that's interesting to me because members are doing things and you know, other members are like, Hmm, or, mm-hmm. What's going on there? So in the church, the people who were members were sometimes excluded from sacrament meetings, which we just talked about. And some members began expressing unusual forms of worship, claiming to have received spiritual gifts.

So the Lord reveals important truths to Joseph Smith to correct these behaviors, and then he instructs the saints on these gifts. And we're gonna continue our discussion about this in the next segment.

Segment 3

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Let's go to Doctrine and Covenant section 46, and we're gonna look at verses seven through nine. That can help us when we are faced with someone claiming to have a specific spiritual gift that we're not sure, kind of like the Early Saints. So let's read these verses. And Kacey, can you read them for us?

Yes. Seven through nine. Year commanded in all things to ask of God who giveth liberally, and that which the spirit spirit testifies unto you. Even so I would, that ye should do in all holiness of heart walking uprightly before me, considering the end of your salvation, doing all things with prayer and thanksgiving, that you may not be seduced by evil spirits or doctrines of devils or the commandments of men.

For some are of men and others of devils. Wherefore beware lest you are deceived and that ye may not be deceived. Seek ye earnestly the best gifts, always remembering for what they are given. For verily I say unto you, they are given for the benefit of those who love me and keep all my commandments and him that seeketh.

So to do that all may be benefited that seek or that ask of me that ask, and not for a sign that they may consume it upon their lusts. Thank you. And then Shah verse 10. And again, verily I say unto you, I would, that you should always remember and always retain in your minds what those gifts are that are given unto the church.

Okay? First of all, who are the [00:28:00] gifts given unto to benefit everyone are given unto the church? So the point of the gifts is to bless all members of the church as Kacey read verses seven through nine. I wanna know, did anything stand out to you that might be helpful when it comes to people who might have, uh, professed gifts, but they're not really spiritual gifts?

Well, the thing that struck me first is that we need to be doing everything with prayer first. Mm-hmm. So, making sure that we are doing, you know, every decision that we make, as we kind of started this whole discussion with that we are praying that we are asking him and that he will give us liberally. So that, that step one is just making sure that we are in communication with Heavenly Father and that we also, that we can use kind of this qualifier that they are given for the benefit of those who love me.

So we can kind of test gifts if they are benefiting the giver of the gift in some way, or if they are benefiting, you know, an organization in some way, that can be kind of a test for us. Like, who are they benefiting? Are they benefiting those that love God? Well then, you know, step one is, is checked off there.

That, that, that might be from mm-hmm. From God. Oh, I like that. Check one. Oh, that's good. Like that. And I like how at the end of seven it says that these spiritual gifts kind of help us differentiate between God's ways and Satan's ways and man's ways. I thought that was really interesting. Um. I don't know why I thought that was just really interesting.

What do you think about that, Tammy? Well, I agree and, and I was just thinking of a great cross reference. We're going to study it in a couple of weeks, but to to those, to the side of those verses, I would put doctrine and covenants section 52 versus 14 through 19. So just write that to the outside doctrine and covenant section 52, 14 through 19, because this is a continual problem for the church.

Many people will say, oh, I can receive revelation. Many people will say, I have these gifts. And [00:30:00] one of the things that we love about these verses specifically verse 14, it says, and again I give unto you a pattern in all things that you may not be deceived for. Satan is abroad in the land and he goeth forth deceiving the nations.

And so he uses this pattern. And for those of us who are sowers, you pattern probably like, oh, I know what this is. Or even Kacey in music, what does it mean to you to have a pattern in music? A pattern is like every musician's gift. Because if once they, once they learn a pattern, once they're able to play or perform a pattern, then they can apply that across that piece many times or other pieces.

So patterns are, are the basis of music learning. Honestly. It helps us become so much more fluent in our, in our playing. I like that you said it's a gift. I put that in my scriptures. Mm. So this pattern, the Lord is gonna give a pattern through these verses about how you can know if you're being deceived.

And so we'll get to that in a couple of weeks. It's really awesome skills. He keep that as a cross reference. But you know what the first thing it says is he needs to pray. He that prayeth, so spirit is contrite, is accepted of me if they obey my ordinances. So it even goes deeper. So is the person contrite?

Is the person praying? Is the person obeying ordinances? There's a whole pattern there for being able to say, okay, wait a minute. Is this really a gift of the spirit or is it a gift self-appointed by this person? And so that's what the Saints are dealing with right now. And the Lord gets into this. But then what we love about the father, and I appreciate so much, Kacey, how you started at the very beginning, that he's looking for ways to include us.

So rather than saying nobody has spiritual gifts, so knock it off, only the prophet can. We love the Emily Fathers like, so you know what? Let me teach you about all the spiritual gifts. Let me talk to you about what they are, and then you can see if you have those and then use those. So we're gonna talk about that in the next segment.

Segment 4

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[00:32:00]

We are still in section 46 of the doctrine and Covenants. And before we actually get into the many spiritual gifts, let's first answer the so what question or so why. That's one of my favorite questions. What's the whole point of even talking about this? Now we've led up beautifully to it and talking about spiritual gifts, but what I love is in section 46, let's go to verse 12 and verse 26, highlight 12, highlight 26, and then connect them with a line.

They're just across from each other in the columns. And Shar, will you please read verse 12 and Kacey verse 26. The sum it is given one, and to sum is given another that all may be profited, thereby in 26. And all these gifts come from God for the benefit of the children of God. Okay, thank you. We're gonna put a cross reference after verse 26.

Put one Corinthians chapter 12 verses 12 through 27. The whole point and purpose of spiritual gifts for the church is so that everyone can be benefited by them, and that these gifts come from God for the benefit of the children of God. And so we cross-reference to one Corinthians chapter 12 verses 12 through 27 because these verses talk about the body of Christ.

And ladies, I asked you to read these verses and connect, how does the body of Christ look when it comes to spiritual gifts and how it operates? One thing that I just really loved is that like, um, in the, in section 46, he could have said like, okay, that's done. I've taught you how to conduct your meetings, and now here's a new revelation about gifts of the spirit.

But I love that they're connected in, oh, why in 46? Because he's talking about all these different people that we don't feel like belong. That they do belong. And then immediately he's saying, and everyone has a gift, including all of those people. And we wouldn't be, we wouldn't be the same without them.[00:34:00]

Mm-hmm. And so, you know, we don't have all the gifts. We need each, we need all, all of us need each other. And I just love that. And it goes back with the body of Christ, you know, like one part is not more important than the other. And, um, as you look kind of, as you read through these, um, the gifts of the spirit, it's talking about how, you know, the gift of.

This seems like there's a lot of opposite gifts, like the gift to heal and the gift to be healed. Okay. And I love these opposites because, um, like we can't have one without the other, right? Yeah. And we can't, we can't make up the whole without every piece of it. And there's not one part. I know that you love to say at the end that you're his favorite, but like one part of the body is not his favorite.

Right? We are all right. Unique and so different. I'm so different than Kacey and I need her in my life for so many reasons, because I can't do what she does. And I'm so different than you, Tammy, and I need you in my life because we, we add things to each other that I don't have, right? Yes. And so I just love that thought that he included this with the beginning of the section, talking about how, you know, everybody is so different and everybody is needed, and everybody has their own unique talents and capabilities, and they're all worthy of being there.

I like your connection to that. And then I read verse 14 in one Corinthians 12, for the Body is not one member, but many. Mm-hmm. And so I just thought, what if my goal one time was to go to church and get to know someone well enough to know what their spiritual gift was, rather than worrying about anything else about them.

What if that was our goal? Getting to know our members that in our ward that well, and then to go, oh, they have that gift. Let's, let's just tap into that. Some of it very obvious, like, oh, she plays the piano. Let's tap into that gift. You know? Yeah. But to find the less obvious ones, I, I love your connection to that.

Thank you. Brett, you, Kacey. I, I loved that too, Shar. And that reminded me of what it says in verse 22. In one Corinthians, nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, he doesn't say, which [00:36:00] are more feeble, but which seem to be more feeble, are necessary. Oh, that's me. That's me. Who hasn't been that?

We all feel that way, Uhhuh. And um, like if you, I, I love to run. I'm very slow. Shar will attest to this. Shar and I have gone running before. Um, but I do love to run. And you don't realize how important every single toe is until one of 'em gets a blister on it. And you still have many miles to go and all of a sudden you're like, well, I need every, every one of those toes.

Mm-hmm. I thought that one didn't matter. It turns out it does. Um, and just how I love, I love anytime Heavenly Father connects a spiritual concept to our physical body. 'cause we can just understand it so viscerally when we can feel it in ourselves and. I love to in verse 26, where in, and this is in one Corinthians again, when he says, and whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it, or one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it.

Mm-hmm. And I have in my scriptures next to that, I wrote family. 'cause that's where I feel that most primarily when one of us, or, and this could be extended to your ward, to your community, to your groups of friends. When one of us is suffering, we're all suffering. When one of us is being honored, we are all being honored.

Um, and I think that that is the point of these spiritual gifts is to lift us all. Lift us all together. Yes. Tell me about an experience you have. Before we get into the gifts. Do either one of you have an experience with a spiritual gift that you'd like to share? Well, that scripture made me think of a story that actually relates to Kacey, but when one suffers, all suffers, I feel like I, in our ward especially, and probably all across in people's wards, I feel like that happens.

Like when somebody's going through something really tough, everybody's can feel it, and they all pray for it, and they all mm-hmm. Want the best for them. And we all feel like we're suffering with them. Right. I don't know, maybe Kacey will tell us about it. Yeah. I had a, I had an experience and this, this really taught me, again, back to verse 22, um, that [00:38:00] sometimes those members, which feel members of the body, he's saying that feel more feeble are necessary.

I had this experience when my son. Got really, my son got really sick, so my oldest son Spencer, is incredibly chill. He's the one that was wearing the sweatpants. So that'll give you maybe all that you need to know. Um, he is super chill. He's really laid back. He's very live in the moment. Don't think, take things too seriously.

And I really saw that as a weakness. I saw that as him being feeble and like, I would worry as moms do, like, will he ever be able to get a job? Will he get to college? Mm-hmm. Will he gain a testimony? Will he be able to take things seriously? And I used to see that personality trait as a weakness, but, um.

Right before his freshman year of high school, so this is just about almost four years ago, he got really, really sick. He got an autoimmune disease called vasculitis, and the onset of this disease was a lung hemorrhage. So his lungs were bleeding out. He had a pulmonary hemorrhage, and we were on a vacation actually in Yellowstone and ended up life flighted to Primary Children's in Salt Lake City, which we weren't living anywhere near there.

But we ended up in Salt Lake City and he was in the ICU for quite a few days. And then we were in the hospital for about three weeks. And that alone was a really traumatic experience. I thought his life was very much in danger and he almost died. And our ward just rallied around us from afar and even someone happened to be visiting Utah and they came and brought us all sorts of things for Spencer to just occupy him and for his room.

And so we felt very loved and very included first off. But um. The whole next year was really tough. Once we finally got back to Minnesota, he was still in very active treatment. He had a port coming out of his chest, like these two tubes when he started high school. And he had to shift what sport he wanted to play in high school.

'cause he wanted to do football and he had to switch to cross country and he had to do some low dose chemo. And he, anyway, it was a tough year [00:40:00] and I saw my sons live in the moment, take things as they come, weakness as this incredible strength. He was so mentally tough. He was so flexible. The doctors would come and be like, okay, now we need to put a port in your chest.

You can no longer play the sport you wanna play. And he's like. Alright, is there one that I could play instead? And then all of a sudden he's running cross country so poorly 'cause he's so slow, he has no blood anyway. And he did it anyway. And then, you know, he had to wear a mask this first year back at school 'cause he was so immunocompromised.

And instead of whining or using vasculitis as an excuse, he's just like, I wonder if there's a teacher I could have lunch with so that I can take my mask off and not be in the cafeteria. And his friends were so supportive of him. They're all kind of, all kind of have the same strength. And he was just able to focus on what mattered most to only worry about the things within his control and to keep his priorities straight, which I thought was so wise.

He had no control over this situation and he came out of that so mentally strong. And we, we meet with many new patients with vasculitis. Um, Spencer and I talk and counsel with them. And almost universally, the children with vasculitis are struggling mentally as much as they are physically. Mm-hmm. And it has just made me realize how blessed Spencer was to have this spiritual gift.

I really believe it was, of wisdom, of keeping his priorities straight. And I have completely shifted how I see our differences. I am not, uh, he needed me. He needed somebody who could make sure he took every medication he needed. Mm-hmm. And see every specialist he needed to see and make sure that our insurance was cleared before he got his infusion.

That mattered and that was important, but I needed him just as much. I needed to live in the moment. I needed to see him build this happy life despite this [00:42:00] really tough diagnosis. And I don't worry about him anymore. I know that he might not take the same exact path through life that I do, but that he's gonna be okay.

That he has the gifts that he needs to succeed. Kacey, that is such a good story. I absolutely believe that is one of his spiritual gifts. The gift of being laid back. You bet. Yes. Not when I have, Spencer has that in spas and he has shared that with, with my son and it is, it is actually wonderful gift.

He's an amazing guy. Oh, that's great. He has benefited so much because speaking back actually to what we started talking about, which is being included, um, one of the most. Incredible moments of my life was the Sunday we came back after being in the hospital for a few weeks and we had actually just moved to Minnesota.

Um, we'd only been there for like, I don't know, two months before this happened, a month or two, a month or two. Um, so he hadn't known Mackay and all of his friends for very long. And Spencer shows up. He's got, again, tubes popping out of his chest so you can completely see through his shirt. His face is.

Hoof from steroids. He's pale as a ghost. He does not look great. Yeah. And all of these teenage boys who are not known for being the most inclusive of the demographics in our society. Mm-hmm. Right. Teenage boys aren't always the most outward thinking. All of these teenage boys in our ward see him come in and just gathered around him.

He just, I mean, I, I immediately lost it, um, as I saw all of his friends welcome him back to the war. Just so thrilled that he was there. And again, whatever capacity he could be. Yeah. It was, it was really lovely. So I will always be grateful to his friends for being such a great example of Christ's love in that moment.

Yeah. And they did that amazing example of inclusion, like that's how we all wanna feel is like when we're at our lowest and feeling like that. Like we are just surrounded immediately when we walk in, right? Mm-hmm. And that is, that's a gift. Yeah. It really is. It was really [00:44:00] impressive. It was, it reminded me of how it will feel when we all get back to heaven.

I mean, mm-hmm. This very clearly, we're trying to, as much as we can make this church like a heaven on earth, we want to feel that love when we go to church and we want to feel included. And I think that's truly how we will feel when we see our loved ones again. I agree. Well, and if anyone's thinking, being laid back a spiritual gift.

Uh, yeah. In fact, let's read this quote. Before we even dive into the spiritual gifts that are in our scriptures. There are so many more. So we're gonna read this fun quote. It's my favorite, Shar. Will you read this quote by Marvin j Ashton? Because he actually says there are many more gifts than the ones in scripture.

And here's just a few that he lists. Let us review some of these less conspicuous gifts. The gift of asking, the gift of listening, the gift of hearing, and using a still small voice. The gift of being able to weep, the gift of avoiding contention, the gift of being agreeable, the gift of avoiding vein repetition, the gift of seeking that which is righteous.

The gift of not passing judgment. The gift of looking to God for guidance. The gift of being a disciple, the gift of caring for others. The gift of being able to ponder the gift of offering prayer. The gift of bearing a mighty testimony, and the gift of receiving the Holy Ghost. I mean, I saw your son in there, Kacey, for sure.

Yeah. And the gift of being laid back. Jay Ashton said that too. I think so did. I'm pretty sure it's in there. I'm pretty sure that's agreeable and avoiding contention. That's a very laid back person. Yes. That's great. He's, he's got both of those gifts, so that is awesome. And I love what you said, Tammy, about trying to get to know people well enough that we know their spiritual gifts.

Yeah. Yeah. Wouldn't not be something, 'cause like you said earlier, we're so good. I mean, we're generally pretty good at when we see someone saying, oh, it's nice to meet you. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Welcome to our ward. But if we could really spend the energy and the time to know people on that deeper level, I think that's, that's when we feel really included, is when we are known.

Yeah. Yeah. I know Shar's spiritual gift. It is the gift of [00:46:00] avoiding contention, for sure. Yeah. Hey, you got me. I know you do not like contention at all. She's got others. She has the gift of friendship, the gift of kindness, all those great things. Optimism. Oh, for sure. Coming. But doesn't that make you feel so safe around Shar?

No, she has those gifts. I know that she's not gonna make a mountain out of a molehill, or if I misspeak, she's going to again listen to me generously and look at my intent. And so it makes me feel safe around Shar because of that spiritual gift. Wow. Okay. That was very nice of both of you. This is so fun.

Okay, so in the next segment then, let's dive into the spiritual gifts that are found in section 46

Segment 5

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in your scriptures. In section 46, bracket off verses 13 to 25. Okay. Those are the spiritual gifts spoken of in section 46 to the outside. I'm gonna give you two cross references because you'll also read spiritual gifts in one Corinthians chapter 12 verses one through 10, which which isn't that so fascinating that in one Corinthians chapter 12, he does spiritual gifts and then right after is where he talks about the body of Christ.

So there is, yeah, that's so cool. A direct connection right there. We just put it in the doctrine in cabinets. The other place you'll find spiritual gifts is in Moroni chapter 10 verses nine through 18. That's Moroni 10 verses nine through 18. Okay, here we go. I'm gonna read them and then my guests are gonna comment if they have something to say, and we'll talk about them first in verse 13, to some is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the son of God and that he was crucified for the sins of the world.

14 to others, it is given to believe in their words that they might also have eternal life if they continue faithful. That's my gift by the way. 14. I always thought believing people was like a bad thing. 'cause the world makes you want to think. If you're a believer, then you don't think for yourself. Yep.

[00:48:00] Right. I'm a believer through and through and when people get up and bear testimony of something and it is true, the spirit will confirm it to my heart and I'll go, I believe. True. Yeah. I thought that same thing when I listened to this or when I read this Tammy, I was like, that is so interesting that he delineated a difference between knowing mm-hmm.

And believing. Yeah. Um, I thought that was really insightful because we do, we tend to rank gifts in our own mind and that is clearly he specifically saying not to do that, that they're all necessary. So absolutely they all matter. Okay, here we go. Thank you for sharing that, Kacey. I'm so glad you shared that.

Then we go to verse 15 again. To some, it is given by the Holy Ghost to know the differences of administration as it will be pleasing unto the same Lord, according as the Lord will suiting his mercies according to the conditions of the children of men. That seems like a little odd, right? Mm-hmm. Here's what it means.

This gift is used in administering and leading the church. The gift can help leaders recognize spiritual gifts of others and how they can be helpful in various positions of service. So I thought that was pretty cool. Oh, verse 16. And again, it is given by the Holy Ghost to some to know the diversities of operations, whether they be of God, that the manifestations of the spirit may be given unto every man to profit with all.

So this helps individuals discern whether a teaching or influence comes from God or some other source That's important, especially in the world we live in today. I think more of us could use that gift. Or maybe we haven't, we just don't recognize it. Like for me, I think I have that gift. 'cause if I hear something that's just not quite right, I feel like maybe it's somebody's like opinion versus like doctrine.

Is that what you're talking about? Yes. Differentiating, like, oh, that's just them sharing thoughts and opinions versus sharing truth and doctrine. Totally. Okay. Or maybe recognizing when our customs don't match doctrine, like is what happened earlier in the scripture. Right. The customs that were prevalent in the area or in the church [00:50:00] weren't matching the doctrine that God wants to include all of us.

And being able to see that, um, could be a gift. Well, that's a great one. I love that. One of the other things I love about diversities of operation is I had it explained to me that I think is you also understand how the church works. So if you have an issue, you don't write a letter to the prophet, you go to your leader.

And that, you know, your first local leader and then you understand how things trickle down in the church. Um, which I think is important sometimes for us to recognize and know that you don't need to be quick to pull the trigger on freaking out. Like just, just start with your local, start with. And I remember one time like I was in a stake position and I started with the person who was over me.

I didn't go straight to the state president. And I loved that lesson, like learning the d diversities of operations and how they work in the church. Yeah. K 17, again, barely I say to you, to some is given by the spirit of God, the word of wisdom. So this is not the word of wisdom as in keeping the word of wisdom.

It's literally the gift of wisdom. The ability to use knowledge in righteous ways. Yeah. I love that. I, I love that because um, in my patriarchal blessing it says that I have been given the gift of wisdom and all my life when, especially as a teenager, I was like, what the heck does that mean? I'm not a wise person.

I don't know. I'm talking about, I feel like when I'm on the spot, especially like on podcast, you know, like I can't get my words together. So, um, I don't know. I just love that is really interesting because halfway through this podcast I was thinking, wow, Shar is just really great on the spot, is what I was thinking.

So your perception, see that's reality coming out. That's not me. Might not be the same. Yeah. I can absolutely see that. There have been many times on this podcast you have shared stories and experiences and truth that has been so wise. Yeah. You absolutely have that gift. Okay, stop. Ladies, stop. Okay.

Alright, we'll stop. Alright. 18 to another is, given the word of knowledge that all may be taught to be wise and have knowledge. So there it is. The gift of knowledge. I mean, I guess knowledge is a prerequisite for being [00:52:00] wise. You have to know how to apply knowledge and in order to apply knowledge you need to have it.

So those are two separate things. That's really interesting. That is, yeah. And again, to some it is given to have faith to be healed and to others it is given to have faith to heal. I love how you pointed those out, that they are kind of opposites opposed. Yeah. Very cool. Again, to some is given the working of miracles.

And to others it is given to prophesy. Now this one's cool. So this gift is the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Personal revelation is the source of testimony and testimony enables a person to prophesy or testify of God's work. So I love that one. I think that is fast and testimony meeting.

Yeah, that is when, I remember when Lily and you know this Shar, 'cause you were on the ward. My girls love to bear their testimony. Love it. Yeah. And so we always have to like pull in the reins like, all right kid. And I was that way too. I used to ask my mom every Sunday, is it fast Sunday or slow Sunday?

Intiated it. 'cause I just wanted to get up until everybody that I believed in Jesus. But I remember. One of the times when Lily got up and she was probably only 10, maybe 11, and she bore her testimony and started crying and she came down and was mortified. She was so embarrassed that she was crying and it was such a sweet moment 'cause I got to teach her that.

That is because you're feeling the spirit that's right there. The gift to prophesy what you said was truth, and we felt it and you felt it and it was awesome. Sign in Marvin j Ashton's quote that you had us read in the last one. It said one of them was the Gift of Bearing a Mighty Testimony. And when I read that quote, honestly my sister's name popped into my head.

Me too. Shar. You too. See she has the gift. I was like, Sarah has this gift. Yes, yes. And like she can just get up and bear a mighty testimony of Christ and she has that spirit. Wow. The spirit of bearing a mighty testimony. I love it. She's got that gift. That's so cool. Yeah. Thank you. K 23 and to others is the Discerning of Spirits.

Let me read this. Here's what it means. This gift allows a person to recognize or [00:54:00] understand others' true intentions and hidden motivations. This gift helps a person to detect hidden evils and see the good in others. Uh, moms, raise your hand if you have the discerning of spirits. What so many times. Oh, so true.

Or kids just have a really hard time. Hi. Hiding it on their faces. I don't know. Or that, exactly not the gift of lying. I guess kids don't have the gift of lying. And I think I, that's true. I think 23 comes by way of even just having the Holy Ghost because mm-hmm. That's what the Holy Ghost does. Like, Hmm.

This isn't quite right. Yeah. Hey, 24. And again, it is to given to some, to speak with tongues and to another is given in the interpretation of tongues. I like this one. This time when I read through this, um, it didn't just speak to me of like, oh, missionaries learning languages, um, that came to my head that these could be referring to also like to speak with tongues.

The gift to be understood. And to see and the interpretation of tongues, the gift to understand. So we all have that, whether we're speaking different languages or not, we can like, or some of us have it, right? One of those gifts of understanding or being understood. And I think those are really cool ways of thinking of those.

Oh, I think you're absolutely right. I'm writing that next to that. Especially if you have teenagers. Yeah. Like the gift, having the spiritual gift to understand your teenager. 'cause they speak a different language. We did when we were teenagers. Yeah. And we're like, our parents just don't understand. Well you can have the gift to understand.

I love that. Be understood. That is so good. Speaking in the same language as people. It is missionary, but it's also what you said Shar. So thank you. Yeah. Okay. And then we go back to 26, how we started 2012 and 26 to some is given one and to some is given another that all may be profited, thereby. So who gets a spiritual gift?

Everybody. Everybody. It's like that Oprah moment. You get a [00:56:00] garden for the benefit of everyone, you get a gift and you get a gift. So everybody gets a spiritual gift so that everybody's profited. And then 26, all the gifts come from God for the benefit of the children of God. So if you have a journal or something, take a minute and think about what your spiritual gifts are and write them down.

Odds are you have more than one. Patriarchal blessing is a great place to go Read your patriarchal blessing. There are some of your gifts also. And so I just, I love the idea of God giving us, it goes right back to what you said, Kacey. He just, God loves us so much. He's looking for any excuse to bless us.

So he is like, lemme just bless you with a spiritual gift too. And then that will bless others. So Very cool. Yeah. I love that. I asked Audrey this week, um, she's my 15-year-old. I asked her what she thought about the gifts of the spirit. 'cause I just love asking my kids when I'm studying these things. And she's like, I don't know, is that like the Holy Ghost?

And so I explained to her, I'm like, we've learned this. Right? Gifts of the spirit are, yeah. And she's like, oh, relearn and relearn. Oh, she's, she's like, yeah, okay. Oh, those things. She's like, yeah, I think those are really cool because like God gives us these cool talents. He's like, but not to make us cool, to make us, to help us help other people and to look, to look outward and to be there for other people.

Oh, I think that's so great. Not to be cool. It's such a fun exercise to ask your kids too, what gifts they think they have and then what gifts you see in them as well. Yeah, because sometimes those spirit, sometimes, like I'll just share as a musician, a lot of times I feel like growing up people were like, oh, well we all know what Kacey's spiritual gift is.

She's good at music. And I remember as like a young teenager, I was like, wait, I, anything else do other things. And in some ways I actually feel not to diminish that that is a reality, but that a lot of times I feel like it's actually my perseverance that is the spiritual gift. And music is just the fruit of that gift.

Yeah. Um, and so I, in my kids, same thing, I see some things that they're really good at and I'm like, what is the spiritual gift? [00:58:00] What is the innate character trait that makes them able to do that thing? Um, yeah, because sometimes that's just one level deeper where their heart's at. Right, right. Like in the Marvin Ashton quote, one of them that really stood out to me when I read it was the gift to be able to weep.

Mm-hmm. And I like laughed out loud. 'cause that is my son, Tommy, uh, to a dot. Oh, she can just like weep on the dime, you know? But like more deeper, he is so caring. He just so tender, tenderhearted, so tender. The gift of being caring and tender and loving people and he'll just cry about anything. I think for me, one of my favorite gifts that people possess is, and it's not listed, but I'm gonna put it in Marvin g Aston's, I think is the gift to be real.

When I can meet someone who could be totally transparent and they don't care what people think. Kacey, I think that is your gift in the time that I've been talking with you. Like we absolutely be friends forever because, yeah. You are not afraid to be real. And that is such a gift. I, well, thank you. I'm onto anyone who's willing to be that way, so Yep.

Non-transparent. I appreciate that. Oh, that's a good gift. Yeah, I did tell Shar. Hopefully you knew what you were getting, so Yeah. Best, only the best. It wasn't, it wasn't the in a pretty package, so you, you get what you get. No, I love that about you. That is a spiritual gift. Don't ever change that. That is so cool.

Oh my gosh. Okay, so here's what we're gonna do then in our very last segment, there's one more gift that it might be a little, a bit uncomfortable for many, but it's necessary for all. We'll talk about that. Next,

Segment 6

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let's go to doctrine and Kevin at section 47, and we're going to mark who this section was given to Sohar. Can you just please read for us the section heading to Doctrine Covenant section 47 and just stop after it tells us who the revelation was given to. Revelation given through Joseph Smith, the prophet at Kirtland, Ohio, March 8th, 1831.

John Whitmer. Mm-hmm. That it, I like that name. So we got a name, John [01:00:00] Whitmer. There you go. It's given to him. We don't wanna give it away yet why this revelation was given. But here's something interesting in the doctrine, in Covenant's commentary that I use sometimes when I'm studying. It said this about gifts of the spirit in connection with verse 12.

So what we wanna do is verse 12 really quick, says to some is given to one and to some is given to another that all may be profited, thereby, and it says this, sometimes our leaders ask us to do something that seems not to be one of our gifts. So we can grow and at different times we could be given different gifts.

And I thought, okay, now this is interesting because one of the gifts of the spirit that I think is in verse 47 has to do with John Whitmer. So now Shark, keep reading the section heading. John Whitmer, who had already served as a clerk to the prophet, initially hesitated when he was asked to serve as the church historian and recorder replacing Oliver Cowdry.

He wrote, I would rather not do it, but observed that the will of the Lord be done, and if he desires it, I desire that he would manifest it through Joseph Theier. How many of you have ever felt that way? I would rather not do it. Raising my hand. Yes. I think, are you sure that you thought of this or was this inspiration?

Let's just clarify. Okay. Let's talk about that. Because I think the gift of saying yes is a spiritual gift. The ability to say yes is so big, and you're right. Is it inspiration or was it desperation? We always joke about that. Right? Does it matter? This is what I wanna know. Maybe a bit of both. He qualifies us for what he needs us to do, right?

I totally agree. Yes. Yes. Okay, so in section 47, it's only four verses. Is there a verse that you marked or a part. I just thought it was really interesting that in addition to what he was being asked to do to keep the history of the church, it also says in verse two that he can also lift up his voice in meetings whenever it shall be expedient.

Yeah. And I took that as kind of a reminder, like regardless of what you're being asked to do in your calling, please, this is a church where we can speak up in [01:02:00] meetings where we want to hear from you. Yeah. Um, just kind of as an over an umbrella over all of the assignments you're given. Mm-hmm. Is just be ready to always lift up your voice.

Right. Right. Just because you're the secretary or the organist Yeah. Doesn't mean you have to sit quietly doing your duties. Exactly. 'cause it's such a specific, like you're important to hear non-verbal assignment. Yeah. It's like, by the way, we still wanna hear from you. 'cause lots of times in our calling we feel tucked away in a spot that we might not be heard from, but we are invited to just always be lifting up our voices.

Yeah. Oh, now that's good. I like your application of that verse. Mm-hmm. Let's read this quote. It's by Elder Juan Pablo vr, and in April of 2019, he gave a talk in general conference, and this is what he said about exercising spiritual gifts. And Kacey, can you read that quote for us? Yes. It is more likely that Heavenly Father will give us opportunities to develop spiritual grs rather than just granting them to us without spiritual and physical effort.

If we are in tune with his spirit, we will learn to identify those opportunities and then act upon them. Have either one of you had an experience that relates to that quote? I think every calling I've been given, I've had to do that. I've had to, uh. Earnestly work hard to figure out how to do it. Um, and I like Inver in, in 46, verse 33, it says, and you must practice.

I just stopped there like, yep, I gotta practice a lot of things in order to do these gifts that I've been asked to do, right? Mm-hmm. Um, one was, one was the organ when I never had played a day in my life. I had to practice a lot. Um. Like different callings, I think call a lot of different things out of me.

But, um, I also remember being called as the gospel doctrine teacher, and I had to pray earnestly for gifts. Every time I taught that class, I had to pray for the gift of being able to ask good questions. Hmm. And for the gift of being able to diffuse sticky situations and which that your, your lack of confrontation you do so good at that shy Yes.

That [01:04:00] comes into play there. Totally. Right. But I think, I think as we get these callings, none of us maybe really feel qualified for what we're asked to do. And we have to just practice and work hard at it and, and pray for the gifts that we need to be given. Because we can increase our gifts, we can add to ourselves, and if we ask God, he'll give us more gifts and more things that we can use to bless those that we're serving.

He wants us to be successful, right? Yeah. He's waiting to bless us as we've talked about quite a few times today, um, I had a experience when I, the calling that I was most intimidated by was when I was called as a Relief Society president for a brand new board that had just been like split. Um, and it happened while I was actually living away.

We were in Minneapolis on an internship, but we hadn't moved our records 'cause my husband was in the Bishop Rick. Anyway, it was kind of like a hot mess. So I got called as a Relief Society president of this brand new ward where I knew nobody and I was Wow. Really far away. And I had a few weeks before I was actually there in person, but I got access, you know, to all the names and I was so intimidated for all, for many reasons, but.

I have always thought that one of my weaknesses is names. I'm so bad at remembering people's names and I'll know everything about them, but I just lose those names. And I was so concerned about coming back and having, and it was one of those young, kind of, it wasn't a BYU ward, but adjacent to BYU. And so it was so many young women, and not even a lot of kids or anything that I could, could kind of ignore at least while I was working on the young women, uh, on the women's names.

So it was so many names. And I prayed. I knew that I needed to know these sisters. I knew that that was, I couldn't do this job without knowing them. Mm-hmm. And I started reading over that list and I just read over it every day. And I prayed and prayed. You practicing and prayed. I was practicing. Wow. Yeah.

And then when we went, when we got to the ward. I had a whole system. I had a little notebook, and I would make sure I [01:06:00] learned three people every Sunday, and I'd write 'em in my notebook, and then I would quiz myself throughout the week. It was really a little bit ridiculous how hard I had to work. Um, and it was slow going.

But then about like six weeks after we had moved back, all of a sudden I was teaching Relief Society and I had the freedom to just call on people. Like I wasn't anxious. The, the names were just there. They were just all there. And I had worked really hard, but I hadn't worked hard enough to justify the freedom with which I knew all these names all of a sudden.

And then the sisters, I could just hold the, like, I could see them. Heavenly father saw them. I just felt his love for them as I realized that he knew them. Heavenly father knew who they were, and I was just this vessel. And he just needed me to do the work, to do the practice. And he was waiting to bless me.

And as soon as I had put forth the effort, you know, that little bit of of effort that I was capable of, he was just standing there ready to bless me. And that was such a reminder to me that he will qualify us for what he needs us to do. Mm-hmm. Because I am not good at that naturally. And that he loved those sisters and he wanted me to know them and be able to serve them.

Oh my God. So he increased your abilities more than you could have. Way more own with your work in there. Almost been like this residual effect where I wouldn't say I'm great at it, but I learned in that process the skills that I needed. And it's like become something that I, you're like, oh, if I work really hard on something I.

The Lord will bless me with the rest. Sh shock. Let just work hard. Shocker that that works. Shocker. Right. Why do we have to be taught Lesson learned so many times. Oh my gosh. Audrey and I both need lots of reminders. Yeah, well you are totally verse 12. I mean, I go back to how you just started us out where you were seeking so to do like you're like, I don't know what I'm doing.

And he looks for every excuse to bless us. But then you are section 46, verse 30. He that asketh in the spirit, which you did asketh according to the Will of God, which it was his thefor. It is done even as he asketh, like That's so [01:08:00] cool. Kacey, he just, and I love how you said he gave me more than I even deserved for the amount of studying that I did.

Yeah. That is the coolest story. You what a great example of him giving bountifully. Like, let me just, okay. You're gonna put in the effort. I'll make up the difference. I mean, that is so cool. Yeah. The math, the math never works out on his blessings, right? No. Our effort does not equate the results. He, he always over blesses us.

Wow. That is a really good story. I can see that completely translating into being a parent, right? Mm. We're gonna put in so much work and so much effort, but like the energy and effort we put in will never equate to what we actually need to give to these kids. And it's, it's his work and it's his glory and it's, they're his kids, right?

And so he's gonna do all the extra work that we don't feel capable of, that we have. I have never felt like more power in my prayers than when my will is like just aligning just right with his. And so when we are praying for something that he wants us to succeed in, when I'm praying to know these sisters and relief society, you can just like feel that conduit and no more so than when I'm praying on behalf of my children.

That's when I've known like I will be given what, what I need and what my children need because this is, we are in sync on this one. He wants this as much as I do more and that's in verse 30 of 46. He to Asketh in the spirit, asketh according to the will of God. Wherefore it is done. Even as he asketh.

It's like when our wills are connected to his, it will be done right. So powerful. That's awesome. It is so powerful and I love in 32 that it says you must give thanks unto God in the spirit, so whatsoever blessing. You're blessed with like, we can't just walk away and be like, woo, how was the close one?

I'm so glad I did that lesson so well. Right. We don't want the 10 situation here. Yeah. Yes, yes. Like we can just walk away and get and up on our knees again. Start [01:10:00] in prayer and in prayer and thanking him for allowing us to be an instrument in his hands. Mm-hmm. I love when we read these verses, 'cause it to me, it reminds me, channel your inner Baptist channel, your inner Bible belt, like, and then you pronounce and declare to your children or everybody.

God is good. God is so good. Yeah. Yeah. He's so good to me. And, and I just think doing more of that and, and giving credit to him. And it isn't interesting how we started out with Satan thinking. And teaching the people, like, don't let them in. Don't invite them in. I mean, it's just interesting how you can see how the Lord's just trying to correct all of these behaviors.

And those gifts aren't from me. Those are from the adversary. Let me show you. I mean, he's so good. He really does look for any excuse to bless us. And then when he does, we give thanks to him for those blessings. And he'll just keep doing it cyclical. And I like how you're like, the, the math doesn't math, it doesn't make sense, but it always is in our favor, always.

So thank you. Thank you to both of you. What a great discussion. We're done. That's the end. Oh, I'm Ed. It's already over. I know. That was so fast. That was so fast. Okay. I'm like kind of sweaty though. Whew. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. So just take a minute, gather your thoughts and, um, what was the moment today or what was something you learned that you're like, oh yeah, tell me what was an eternal truth that you learned today?

What did the spirit teach you? Um, I loved, I. When Kacey started out saying God is looking for any excuse to bless us. Mm-hmm. That's really stuck with me through the whole, um, through the whole podcast that he wants to bless us, that he is just hoping to and desiring to, and it's all he wants because he loves us so much.

He just will take any opportunity that he gets to bless us and, um, that's just so filled with hope and so filled with love and that's what I want. I'll take all those reasons and I'll please give them to me. Absolutely. Well, SHA hears me say this almost every Sunday 'cause we're in primary together and I'm the, [01:12:00] the primary coer and she plays the piano or is and is in the presidency.

She's doing all kinds of things. Sure. Um, but I, I tell the kids every day as we're living, um, I bear my testimony that Christ loves them, that they are loved by God because I just, I want that, that to be the main thing that they take away. And I really felt that, Tammy, when you were defining liberally that he gives freely, he gives bountifully, he gives without motive.

There's no. There's nothing that he is trying to get from this, other than that. He loves us. He wants what's best for us, and these sections are all about that. Just wanting what is absolutely the best for us. And his only motivation is love. Mm-hmm. That he loves us unconditionally and unequivocally. And what a great, what a what a miracle.

To know that what a miracle. That the God of heaven and earth loves each of us individually enough that he gives us the gifts that we need to both serve and be served in his church. Mm-hmm. That was good. I like that. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Uh, both of you said such profound awesome things and I have to go with yes.

God looks for any excuse to bless us. I loved that Kacey. I also loved the connection to talking about the feeble members of the church when you had us turn into the first Corinthians verse, 'cause it made me think like we are all feeble and I feel like we as the body of Christ build each other up. So I love your connection to that.

And then Shar, I loved the very beginning when you talked about Ask of God and your conversation about how it would change our prayers if we really, truly believed he would give us if we just asked. And so that helped me a ton. I love how when you said I'd probably get on my knees and it made me rethink about my prayers, it was so real.

And I appreciate that because I'm like, oh yeah, I could do better at that. So thank you for pointing that out and being honest. So you guys are awesome. You are. Well. Thank you Tammy. So great. That was a great discussion. Thank you Tammy. So nice to meet [01:14:00] you. Well, what truth did you learn? Go join our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram to share what you've learned.

And at the end of the week on a Saturday, we're going to post a question from this discussion, because here's what I wanna know. What is your spiritual gift? I think you can post that. I think it'd be really cool. Comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday.

And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, because it's where we're going to have links to all the references as well as that awesome Marvin j Ashton quote, which you're gonna want and a transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living.

It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our fabulous study group participants were Sharmaine Howell and Kacey Ableman. And you can find more information about these awesome friends at ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.

Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week, and please remember, you really are God's favorite.