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Segment 1

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In Doctrine and Covenant Section 25, Emma Smith was ordained by her husband to expound scriptures and exhort the church. And this revelation ends with the Lord saying that it is a voice unto all. Now, I believe that this calling is what opened the doors for all women to expound scriptures and exhort the church.

And for this week's episode and study of Doctrine and covenants, sections 49 through 50, I have invited two educated women who are my friends. They have paid the price to know and they know how to expound and exhort and no doubt as section 50 verse 22 states. All will be edified. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Desert Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living where we take the come Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together.

I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. If you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come Follow Me study. Just like my longtime listening friend, Mindy, sorry. Thank you Mindy, for always commenting. You are delightful.

Another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different. And today we have Mindy Brown and Maria Eckersley. Hi ladies. Hello. Good to be here. Hello. Oh, I'm so glad you're here. Okay. First of all, just so you know, Mindy Brown is Melinda Wheelwright Brown.

That's her author name and she is the author of some gr Well, what my, the best book ever that I love that she wrote that she has out is her book on Eve, but she has a new book coming out. You guys, you need to go get it. Tell us the name of your new book. Um, an endowment of love embracing Christ's covenant way of living and loving.

Tell us what it's about. Well, it's about, um, recognizing the core commitments that we commit to as we receive our endowment in the temple, recognizing those as eternal principles of heavenly relationships, both between us and the Lord and us and everybody [00:02:00] we interact with. So, a way to frame it so that we're seeing it as blessing every relationship that we have from the minute we walk out the door of the temple and into the distant eternities.

I have read it and I can tell you it is so good. Maria is smiling. Maria is, thank you nodding as lot. I'm, I'm not all the way through and I'm about halfway, but I, I had to send Mindy a text when I was on what, like chapter three? I think so. Sweet Maria, you're so thoughtful. Thank you both. It's, it's a phenomenal book in that I just feel like the timing is impeccable.

'cause I think there's all these women who are hungry for exactly what that book provides, so I agree wholeheartedly. It's fantastic. Thank you. I like that you just endorsed that, Maria. That's exactly true. So get it, read it. I just loved it because every time I read something you wrote, I thought, did she learn this in her master's program?

Didn't you think that Maria? Like it's just packed with doctrinal goodness. Thank you. Because mind just finished her master's degree at Duke University in the Duke program. A little mean. That's a pretty big deal. Mindy. Pretty big deal. Oh, thank you. Thank you. It was a joy and, and it really did inform actually the work I.

An amazing, to an amazing degree. I believe it. Yeah. I'm, I'm so grateful for all of our Christian siblings. I think there's so much goodness among them, and I learned so much from them, so I'm grateful for that. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Okay, Mindy, let's brag on Maria, because this is so fun about Maria. You guys need to get on Instagram and follow her.

This is what I love about Maria. Maria is the queen of visual aids teaching youth. Like if you needed to know, how am I gonna teach this to anyone from the ages of zero to a hundred, let's not kid ourselves. 'cause adults need this too. She has the best ideas of how to visually teach something so that they're interactive and they're engaged.

It's awesome. Maria, give us what your Instagram handle is. It's Mekon life, so you can find me. Yep. It's a place where it's a hodgepodge of all the things I just love to do. So it's luckily Instagram gives you a platform [00:04:00] that it's not too choosy. They just say like, give me whatever. And that's kind of what I throw at it.

Just whatever hits me and she follows along the Come Follow me lessons. So if you need, she's know that's Week Mom Ever. Don't you know that it doesn't get more fun? Like your children are so lucky. Bless. I tell them that all the time. Good. I'll tell She's a fun mom for sure. Yeah, she's the fun mom. Oh my gosh.

I do, I like to incorporate fun into Come Follow Me. I feel like otherwise it just becomes this, you know, drudgery and I want it to be something that sort of enlivens us. So it's my connection point a little It. It's so cool. I'm really hoping you're gonna give us something in this episode that we can use.

Oh, I've got some things. Oh, good. Good, good, good. I was hoping you would. Okay, well, if you wanna know more about my guests and see pictures of them, you can find them in our show notes, which are found at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. So grab your scriptures and something to mark them with. And we are gonna dig into two chapters.

That's it. Doctrine and covenant sections 49 through 50. All right, you two. First things first. What did the Holy Ghost teach you as you read these two sections? Oh, I can go first. Uh, I think the biggest message I got from these sections was that you have to give place. Maybe this is 'cause I'm, that's where I'm in my Book of Mormon study, but I kept reading, you know, Alma 32 and he talks about if you're gonna plant the seed of truth, you really need to give place first, which I always picture as like scooping out that comfortable packed soil and making room for something new and fresh and true.

And that's what I feel like Section 49 and Section 50 teach me because in 49 you have this advice to the shakers and it's, it's very much, I need you to get rid of some of this old doctrine and I need you to plant truth. And it's actually gonna feel a little uneasy at first. But if you just let that seed grow, it's gonna soften and it's gonna produce something that will nourish you.

And I think you see a little bit of that in 50 as well as, I think they were sort of used to old ways of showing what they think the spirit feels like, manifesting it with their bodies in certain ways. And [00:06:00] old. Assumptions about what the spirit's supposed to look like on this, on the surface. And section 50 is all about saying, I want you to give place.

I need you to take some of that out so I can plant something that will really nourish you. And what I felt over and over again as I was studying is a lot of little plants can grow in that spot. A lot of things can start to grow, but very few things will nourish. And I felt like both of these sections were saying, I wanna give you something that will really fill you and last, and then that was powerful to me.

It kind of helped me look at my life and say, where do I need to give place and what do I need to plant? Oh my goodness. Yeah. Love that. That is so good. You just answered a question I had when I was reading this. Thank you. Because I circled in 49 verse five, the word receiveth twice, and then I circled in verse 24, the word flourish.

It says it twice and now beautiful. What you just said is it, that is what it means to give place. To receive. Yeah. And then let it flourish. So thank you for teaching me that, Maria. That is awesome. Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that connection. So cool. All right, Mindy, what about you? Yeah, I love that. Um, well, partly, probably just the way the timing works.

You know, the Lord works in these wonderful ways, right? Verse two of section 49, which says, behold, I say unto you that they desire to know the truth in part, but not all for they're not right before me. And must needs repent. Um, as I studied 49, that verse really. It hit me powerfully because I had recently had an experience where I thought at first I could see the whole picture and I wasn't really happy about what I was seeing, um, from, from just a kind of bureaucratic organizational standpoint on some Sunday Church things.

And, and I just really, through the process of me working through that experience, I kind of had this exact [00:08:00] realization and this powerful, really deep witness that it actually, I don't usually have like dreams like that, but this came to me in a dream and I don't think I'll ever forget. I hope, I hope I will never forget because it was really powerful as a reminder that, oh, like I don't get to pick and choose the parts.

It's the whole thing. And I need to sometimes ask myself. What puzzle piece am I missing that I maybe don't realize? I don't have all the pieces here where, like, what lack I yet, right? Like, like that kind of language or, um, I love how one interviewer sometimes puts it as tell me what I'm missing or tell me what I'm getting wrong.

And that humble stance of, okay, this is the way that I feel like I'm seeing this, but it doesn't feel good. So, so where am I off? Can you help me align? And, and I love that in this verse in verse two, it says, they're not right before me. And I've been thinking and, and studying and praying a lot about that idea of rightness related to temple worship and, and lots of other things.

You know, I think we hear the word true a lot. True and right. And for me, I think. If we look at some of the tools of the builder's tools, this is really enlightening to me and it's a good reminder to me that, like, say we think of, say, a Carpenter Square or a plumb line or a level, which is like my favorite tool in the world, I feel like I, everything needs a level.

But to it, I wanna think perfectly straight. But, but I think this idea of Right and true really means like, are we aligned exactly right with the Lord's Way? Mm-hmm. And a little off isn't right enough. Like if you really wanna build a sturdy building, you perpendicular needs to be perfectly [00:10:00] perpendicular.

If you lean the slightest weight, if you put a big load on top, you're till you're, you're like gonna crash. It can only hold for so long. And you know, I think that's the idea of like being, being justified with the Lord is being like perfectly aligned, like a margin on a word processing screen or something.

We're trying to. Be perfectly aligned. And so all of that comes together in this really concise burst and just really reminded me that I need to take the humble stance. And, and my question should always be, tell me what I'm missing or not seeing here because truth feels good and uplifts and edifies. And so if it's not sitting well with me, then it just means I, I don't have the whole picture.

So to me that was powerful. And you know, sometimes that's how scripture study goes for me. I get two verses in and like, oh, I got it. Like, I'll just live on the second verse for an hour here. Oh, chew on that for a second. Yeah. I have a hard time moving along. I love the personal application. I wrote so many notes next to verse two.

Oh. Because every time I read that, I'm like mm-hmm. They did, they did not have all of the gospel. Like I went right to the others. I started othering all the people who don't get it. But I love it. 'cause when you said that, I was like, oh, I am verse two. I'm verse two all the time. Oh my gosh. That was, you're in good company.

I, I am there Right. With you and many others. I think it's just, it's human nature. We don't know what we don't know. Right. And so, yeah. You have to look bit differently inspiration, right? Like this whole idea is this still being restored? So nobody knows it all. Isn't that lovely? Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's exactly right.

It's like maybe it's, it's not here yet and we just have to be patient. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Take these little bite-sized doses and, and enjoy it. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that was so good. Okay. This is gonna be such a fun discussion then. That's just what the Holy Ghost taught you. [00:12:00] Here's what I did for this episode.

I asked these women to share with me what stood out to them, and I was not disappointed. And I'm telling you right now, everything they shared shaped this episode. So I am so excited to learn from these women because they pointed out some really amazing things. So, in the next segment, we're gonna start with Maria and I cannot wait to find out what she has to teach us.

Segment 2

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Here's the story behind this section. We just wanna go to Doctrine and Covenant, section 49, the section heading. 'cause it tells us the whole story, right? It's crazy. I'm gonna read the story and then I'm gonna turn it over to you, Maria, 'cause I want you to tell me why you love this section. So here's what you need to know.

This revelation was given through Joseph Smith to Sidney Rigdon, Parley p Pratt, and Lehman Copley. In May of 1831, they're in Ohio and Lehman Copley had embraced the gospel, but he still held onto some of the teachings of the shakers. Now the shakers is a religion that truly believed that if you could dance and shake off your sins, that was part of their like, sign me up.

That sounds kind of fun. But they would dance and shake off their sins, but they also believed in some other interesting things. And that's what it says right here. It says some of the beliefs of the shakers were that Christ's second coming had already occurred, and that he appeared in the form of a woman named Ann Lee.

They did not consider baptism by water essential. They rejected marriage and they believed in a life of total celibacy, so some shakers also forbade the eating of meat. In prefacing this revelation, Joseph Smith, history states, in order to have a more perfect understanding on the subject, I inquired of the Lord and received the following.

The revelation refute some of the basic concepts of the shaker group and the aforementioned brethren took a copy of the revelation to the shaker community and read it to them in its entirety. We're gonna find out what happened with that. So Maria, why Tell me about section 49. Just work your magic. You know what I love about this section is it is not like me, and [00:14:00] that's a, that is why I learn a lot from section 49 because this is so gutsy.

The Lord is just gutsy and he is unafraid that. Because I think every commandment God gives is about love, right? He's always trying to guide us to taste his love, to experience his love. And he can see that there's all these weeds that are getting in the way of the people's truth growing. You know? So he actually is trying to like yank out these.

And what I would do if this were me and I was going to go speak to a congregation of people who believed a lot of things that I don't believe is, I would sort of sidestep and I would try to find common ground and then sort of sneak in the doctrine later, almost like a green smoothie. You know? Like I would try to not tell my children that that's what this is, but then be like, Hey, surprise, didn't you love it?

And I, that's not his way. In fact, it wasn't his way in the New Testament either when he spoke. Yeah. And it didn't matter if he was speaking to one person or to a whole multitude of people. He just teaches truth because he knows truth. Tastes good. And so if he can just get them to taste it and they might reject it.

They might not even put the straw in their mouth to taste the smoothie, but he's like, if I just get you to taste it, you'll know for yourself and I don't need to tease this out of you. And so he's so. Clear. And it's interesting 'cause you can kind of divide section 49 into two pieces. Like if you, if you cut between 11 and 12 Yes.

That the, the beginning 11 is all about, you know, his guidance to those leaders that are gonna go teach. And I mean, listen to what he says. This is first one he says, harken unto my word, my servants Sidney and Parley and Lehman. For behold, ve say unto you that I give unto you a commandment that you should go and preach my gospel, which she have received even as you have received it unto the shakers.

So he's saying really clearly, don't soft pedal this, you actually won't make any ground that way. I need you to just teach truth and teach it clearly. I think they're supposed to teach it with compassion. 'cause that's the Savior's way as well, meaning he doesn't just barge in and drop everything. He just, he's sensitive and he understands their needs, but he teaches boldly.

And that to me was [00:16:00] inspiring because I think I chicken out all the time, and I think this was saying like, trust, trust in his divine methods. Oh, well, and as you were talking, I kept thinking even Joseph Smith, the fact that he asked what to do about this. 'cause I would've been like, nah, we'll just let God take care of it.

They're fine. Let him shake all they want. You know what? It doesn't really matter to us. I love that Joseph's like, well, let's find out what God thinks. And then I've never considered that. The Lord is so gutsy. Oh, you're absolutely right. That is so good. I just love his stance. He's just so, he knows it's true.

And I feel like the more the older I get and the deeper my testimony roots go, maybe the more I've tasted God's love, the more I'm like, no, this actually is the only way to find peace and joy and happiness. And so I actually can come more boldly to people. But yeah, at the beginning, when your testimony itself is a little bit fragile, you just treat everything with this delicacy that is not necessary.

Maria, that was fantastic. Well, in section 49, I wanna know if there were any other verses that stood out to the two of you, and let's kind of share a little bit and I'll, I'll start, 'cause I, I'll share what, what stood out to me, and then we'll go to Mindy. But I liked verse five, and especially because Maria, you taught us that the Lord is gutsy.

In verse five, he says, thus sayeth the Lord, for I am God and have sent mine only begotten son into the world for the redemption of the world and have decreed that he, that receive of him shall be saved. He that receive with him not shall be damned. And it hit me different. I've read that before and it's almost just scripture wording that I'm like, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la la.

Like I know that. I know that. But today, when I was getting ready, it hit me differently because I immediately thought of my children and how important it is for them. To have an experience with the atonement, like I'm a big fan of experiencing agency while you live with me. Like, let's do all the stuff we can that's wrong while you're here so that I can help you figure out [00:18:00] how to repent and use the atonement.

I don't like, I, I, and I, I and everyone does wrong things, but I, I want my kids to know it's okay to do it here. Like, if you do something wrong, let's talk about it. Let me tell you what the steps are to take, go talk to your bishop. That's awesome. My kids know I've had to talk to my bishop before. I am very transparent about that because I want them to know it's not scary that it's the greatest thing ever.

And I remember, uh, Devin Durant, he spoke at a women's conference talk with one of my friends, so I happened to be there and he had been a former mission president and he said this, the most important thing you could send your child with on a mission is not a good pair of shoes. Or not even a set of scriptures.

It's a testimony of the atonement of Jesus Christ. That is all I want your kids to have when they come to me and that hit me. 'cause I just assumed everybody did or had an experience. And he's bore testimony that they don't, they, they've never have repented. They don't know what it's like. They've been scared to do that.

And so that verse five struck me. I want my children to receive him. I want my children to absolutely know who Jesus Christ is and have an experience with him. And I just, that's the verse that hit me so hard this time. I love that. I love that. That reminds me too, Tammy. I love that. Receive, that's, that's such a temple related word to me as well, because you talk about receiving our endowment, but I always connect it to, um, a scripture in doctrine, covenants 88, which we'll get to later this year, but verse 33, that reads for what does it prophet, a man if a gift is bestowed upon him and he receiveth not the gift.

And then the second portion, that's also really significant there. Behold, if he rejoices not in that, which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him, who is the giver of the gift, that's, what's that verse again? Eight. It's verse 33, 88, 33. I'm gonna cross reference that. That's cool. And the Lord is saying like, what good will it do you if you receive not the gift, like I'm giving you a gift.

Yeah. But [00:20:00] if you don't want it, if you don't take the gift, it can't help you. And I, this is gift language, right? Oh, I like that so much. Everywhere I hear receive, I, I immediately jump to gift. And that helps me remember, like Maria said, it's all about love. Like mm-hmm. He just, every, everything is love-based with the Lord and that's awesome.

But with boldness as well, so. Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. Oh, so good. Receive very good. I just want my kids to receive him. Yeah, exactly. So share with your kids how you've received him. I think that's the best way we can do that. Share our receiving stories. That's so cool. Love that. Okay, Mindy, what about you?

Section 49, what do you got? Um, yeah. Well, we've already revealed I can't get very far without getting holed up in something. So let's go backwards to verse four. Okay. Verse four, I, I was so struck like I am, I just adore Lehman Copley. Like, I wanna know Lehman because like, here's what the verse says. He says, and my servant Lehman shall be ordained unto this work that he may reason with them, not according to that which he has received to them, but according to that, which shall be taught him by you, my servants.

And by so doing, I will bless him. Otherwise he shall not prosper. Now, immediately I've had to jump over to Alma and because I thought, oh, my word Lehman is aMule. And if he's just recently become familiar with the story of aMule, that's cool. This is a very scary direction for him. He's thinking, whoa, whoa, whoa, you are asking me to do an Alec thing?

And I remember what happened to some people Alec loved. And like, that is so painful. And I just think, oh, that would be the bravest thing. I mean, if the Lord were ever to say to me, remember Alec, you just go do an Alec thing. I'd be like, no, I don't wanna be Alec. That's scary. Like, no, no, no. And, and so that's really what jumped out at me there is how [00:22:00] incredibly brave and really, I mean, I, I love Amulek in the scriptures because he was so brave to do all that he did with Alma.

But this whole idea that by so doing, I will bless him. Otherwise he shall not prosper. Sometimes it's a hard reality that the Lord's kinds of blessings at the moment don't always look like blessing and prospering to us. They might occasionally look like, you know, um. And brimstone and, and really hard, painful.

And it's not until much later that we see how, oh, that was such a blessing. Um, and so I just was reminded of, of how grateful I am for great examples in the scriptures, like LEC and Limo Copley, and I just love that part. That's such a cool connection. Okay. I've never thought about those two together. Oh, I, but like the trickiness me talking to your own people and Yeah.

You know, it's like when the savior has to teach in Nazareth and you know, like there, there's a certain kind of Yes. Difficulty in talking to the people that, you know, the closest. It's easier to teach strangers isn't not the truth. Completely. Yeah. That's hard. That's a great comparison. Oh my gosh. Okay.

This is so cool, because then I went and looked up how old he was. I think you're right with the amu, like he was 50 years old. Like this man knew how to do stuff. Yes. He had probably already done, I mean, he had a career. He knew how to make money. Joseph Smith is so young and he's taking instruction from these young kids.

Oh my gosh. One, likewise. I mean, if that's his age, you can imagine he was a respected member of this shake the community. Like they thought if he's coming back, that he's coming to give him warm fuzzies and like, oh, look how wonderful and awesome you guys are gonna love this. But then it's, it's hard talk.

Mm-hmm. You know, there's a Z room in that group. Right. And yes. Like that's just gonna be hard. Oh, I've never compared to Miami like you are totally right. Well, especially otherwise, he shall not [00:24:00] prosper. He probably knows what it means to prosper at 50. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that was so good. And he's probably asking him like, which way do you face?

You know that Love the robins talk my love. It's like you, you're representing me to them. It's not the other way around. Yes. You're not trying to get them to buy the gospel. You're trying to teach my way and my doctrine to them, and then they get a choice whether to receive it or not. But he has to remember which way he faces and that's hard.

Mm-hmm. Wow. Especially among your friends. That's hard. Oh wow. That was so good. We could have talked for an hour on section 49. Who are we kidding? I know I only got her verse four. Right. Okay. But that's it. That's, that's what we're gonna talk about for section 49. Maria, I love that you pointed out, and so let's make sure everyone does this draw a line between verses 11 and 12.

'cause she's right until verse 11. That's instruction to those three men. But verse 12 is the revelation they would've read to the shakers. And so you can read how the Lord then addresses every single one of their belief systems and just explains like, like he said at the very beginning, you have it kind of in part, but not all.

So let me just kind of fix this a little bit. I thought 24 was interesting where he says. That, but before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness and the laman night shall blossom as a rose Zion shall flourish upon the hills and rejoice upon the mountains. And I felt like that verse was really addressing the fact that they're celibate and they don't have children.

They don't even get married. Yeah. And so it was interesting 'cause I looked up what the shakers are today and in 1826 the Shaker community was huge. And around the 1840s it had about 6,000 members that in 1905 there were a thousand members. And in the early 21st century, only 10 members existed. Because they didn't flourish.

You have to flourish, so you don't believe in family or marriage. I mean, they, they adopted orphans for a while. Mm-hmm. They had a couple strategies to try and grow, but how, how do you grow without people and Yeah. So you could see where that, I think their intentions [00:26:00] were good as so many. Other religions are right.

They, they, they had great intentions. They just had a little misapplication in areas and he's like, it's not too late to flourish. That's why I love how the Lord speaks. He's like, I, oh yeah, this is gonna happen. Zion's going to flourish and I want you to be a part of it. That's why I love that he reached out to the shakers.

They're this tiny little community. They're not the biggest religion and they're not a competitor. He's just like, I'm in relentless pursuit of every single one of you, and I want you to be a part of this flourishing process. So come, come to us. I love how it is in 27 where he says, I will go before you and be your rear word, and I'll be in your midst, and you shall not be confounded.

Because it would've been easy for them to feel confounded even if some of this tasted good. And they were like, but how have I led so far off course, and I don't understand. And he's like, I'm right here. I'm right here with you. I'm gonna be on your right and your left. I'm right in the middle. You don't, you know, like he's just trying to help comfort.

And to me, there, there's something so kind about the way he teaches, even the way he corrects. It's always compassionate and always true. Yeah. Yeah. I also love that right at the beginning there at the split, like between 11 and 12, from verse 12, the first thing you start to recognize is, oh, he starts with the doctrine of Christ like 12, 13, 14.

It's like the always those basics. That's what it's all built on, and that's a good reminder as well. So I love that. Oh, that's good. Oh, thank you ladies writing down these notes. Okay, so let's do this then. In the next segment we're gonna dive in to Doctrine and Covenant section 50. And we're just doing one verse, that's it.

One verse doctrine and covenant section 50 verse one. And Melinda is gonna talk to us about this and we'll just have such a fun discussion. We'll do that Next.

Segment 3

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We are in Doctrine and Covenant section 50, and Melinda pointed this out to us, which I think is so cool. Stephen Harper, who we are actually gonna have on in a couple weeks. You're [00:28:00] gonna love it you guys. Professor Stephen Harper, he calls Doctrine and Covenants Section 50 a masterpiece, perhaps the finest example of teaching Anywhere.

So that immediately had me like, oh, I can't wait. So Mindy, take us into section 50, just verse one. Okay. Okay. So verse one reads Harken, OE Elders of my Church and give ear to the voice of the Living God and attend to the words of wisdom which shall be given unto you, according as you have asked, and are agreed as touching the church and the spirits which have gone abroad in the earth.

Well, I just got stuck right there with according as he have asked, because I think that's such a crucial. Message in the entire doctrine and covenants. That's really so huge. Again and again in the doctrine and covenants. We're taught that questions are good and we need to actually ask them because the Lord is, is really not thrilled about giving answers for what we don't ask.

He wants us to practice articulating it and finding the words for it and saying it and using our agency. Um, and the thing that's amazing to me with that is so often if I will get on my knees and actually formulate the question, it's unbelievable that often before I get to the end of the sentence, I have ideas pouring into my head and it's like I need to just pause and start writing down because, because I actually asked the detailed, specific question.

And of course, it's such an excellent reminder that he cares about every little detail. Like, like, I love this. It's a training ground of get more specific, get even more specific. Like, come on, go more, more, get more specific. Let me show you how closely and intricately I am involved in your life. And that is just, that's love, right?

That's a [00:30:00] completely loving relationship that he's asking us to do that. So, so I just love that phrase according as you have asked. I have, I have a question, Mindy. Yeah. Do you have a, a personal story about that where you really did, where the Lord's like just ask and, and you got the answer? Yeah. Um, you know, honestly, like, I, I guess this is a blessing of aging, is that we have more experiences and it just becomes so much more self-reinforcing that now I'm mid fifties almost every day.

Like if I, if I'm praying. I'm worried about this child. It kind of hurt my heart when I heard them mention this today. What is a way I could help, you know, what should I be doing? It's just like instant thoughts of text them this, call them and say this, they need a hug. Um, change your plans tomorrow instead of doing this thing, go take her lunch.

Or, you know, just different, different little things and, and really things that almost seem somewhat insignificant. I mean, not that a child's problems. Problem would be like that. But, but another example is I just, I always have too many things that I'm trying to read or trying to get to surrounding me at my desk.

And I just have this practice of saying a little prayer like, okay, Lord, I've got 18 minutes. Which of these books has the answer? I need to be clear. Here's what I'm looking for the answer for. And like, I really do just follow until I feel like it's this one. Mm-hmm. And you start reading and you know, lo and behold, I think everybody has great answers for something.

But within pages I'm thinking, oh, that's it. That's the answer I was looking for. Thank you, thank you, thank you. That's what I needed right now. So I just see that happen a lot and, and I guess I've just had a lot of [00:32:00] practice with. Getting more specific in my questions, but I think he just, I, I can just picture a joyful father, like arms overloaded with blessings that he just wants to pour down on us.

But he's saying, come on, ask. So I, I love that. Oh, that's so great. Thank you for doing that. Uh, Maria, did you have one? I'd love to hear. Oh, so many. In fact, I had a similar, so I, I have a, I was a, had a family crisis of one kind or another. And I have this loop, Tammy, that I like to hike. So it's called lupine.

It's near me and takes maybe, oh, maybe you've hiked it with me. It's like I've done it beautiful. It 30, 40 minutes. It's just a little hike. And my, my basic policy is if I've got a prayer that I just really need an answer to, I will go and I will hike lupine. And I know within that 40 minutes if I, if I'll listen to a devotional while I'm walking downhill.

And when I'm going uphill, sometimes I'll take that out and I'll just listen to the spirit and I'll try and get help. And it was so funny 'cause I'm like scrolling through the BYU speeches and I could see the latest three and I was like, heavenly father, I need to know which one, one of these is bound to have the answer.

I've got 30 minutes, I need to know which one, so I click one. Sure, sure enough. Just like Mindy describes. I get clarity. I wouldn't say I have like exact words, but I get clarity by the end of the loop. Then I realized that the commitment I was supposed to get to after canceled and I was like, oh, actually I can do two more loops.

I listened to all three devotionals right in a row. Every one of them had a bit of wisdom, you know, like this, what he's offering in this verse was any one of those, I could have picked any one of those three and found wisdom from God. And sometimes we get so fixated on like, but which is the right one?

There must be a right one. And then we panic 'cause we think, oh, I must not have picked the right one. And I think what's beautiful about verse one is he's saying, I can give you words of wisdom from almost anything you give me. Yes. Just show up with open hands. Just come to me hoping to receive and I will fill your hands.

Stop. Yeah. It, it's almost like, like you described, that's such a perfect description of it because it's as if he's saying, oh. You I'll like tweak the lenses so that this jumps out at you, or lemme [00:34:00] finish your hearing a little and you'll hear this thing you, it's just this constant fingerprints everywhere.

Right. And involvement. So that's, and we can't get paralyzed with the worrying about the minutia. Yeah. He's like, seriously, Maria, I've got plenty. Mm-hmm. Well, okay. Falling in line with the law of witnesses then. This is so incredible to me that you two both shared a story that involved a time constraint.

Because I go to this and it says, I will give an unto you according as you have asked, and you both asked with, I have this much time. I'm not kidding. Right. Before we started this episode, I sat down at my computer. I said, heavenly father, I have 40 minutes. Like. I can't even believe this is happening like this.

Well, you guys have shared is true. Everyone listening know that even God according to as you have asked, even in a timeframe, because I was like, I have 40 minutes to edit with this thing that I'm working on and, and I've gotta hurry and get it done. So please help me to see things I haven't seen. And I have read this thing so many times and I read it again and the spirit's like, cut that, cut this, put this in, cut this.

I could not believe what I was able to get done in that 40 minute time that right before we hit record, I said a little prayer thanking Heavenly Father for answering my prayer in that specific timeframe. And then you both share cool timeframe story like he really is so good. That whatever we ask according as you have asked, that's incredible.

Even a timeframe. You bet I'll help you. Yes. I was just studying the woman with the issue of blood. And I think hers isn't time, but her constraint is she's afraid to touch him and she's afraid to make him unclean and she's, she's trying to live within the bounds of her society, but at the same time, she really needs to touch him somehow.

And so you can see her saying, here's my constraint. I'm just going to be behind you and I'm barely gonna touch the tip of your garment. Can you just work within those constraints and heal me? And he says yes. And he calls her daughter and I'm just like, that's who he is. That's his danger. So yes, give him your constraints and then watch the miracles flow.

They just will. Yeah. It's almost like so cool. He loves the constraints. [00:36:00] Just bring it on. Lemme show you how amazing. Lemme show you what I can do. Yes. I can work with any constraints. Yes. Oh, that's so good. Wow. That was awesome. Wow. I love how I felt the spirit. That was so cool. Okay, so here's what we're gonna do.

We're gonna end right here. That was one verse and that was so powerful. So in the next segment, we're gonna dive in to a couple more verses in Section 50, and we're gonna see how the Lord really is the most masterful teacher and why Stephen Harper said that about this section. We'll do that next.

Segment 4

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So here's what you wanna know about Section 50. This revelation was received because at this time there were members of the church who were having, and, and in the section heading, it says they were having so-called spiritual phenomena were not uncommon among the members, some of whom claim to be receiving visions and revelations.

And so Joseph Smith is like, okay, what do we do? There's these people from other religions and people are saying they're receiving spiritual manifestations and they're experiencing the spirit. I'm not sure if that's what they're having. How do we solve this problem? And so then we get into section 50 and we've already talked about verse one.

He addresses some things in verses two through nine, but then he gets into his beautiful teaching style. We're gonna start in verse 10. And one of the things you're gonna notice is you read verses 10 through 12, is the word reason or reason of circle that every time you see it. Reason, reason, reason if, reason if, reason, if.

And then again, reason at the very end, and I circled this word and I looked it up, and it means to discourse, to talk, to debate, to discuss. It's kind of what we're three doing today. I love it. We're reasoning the scriptures, which is so fun. So Mindy, will you please start by reading verse 10 says, and now come say at the Lord by the spirit unto the elders of his church and let us reason together that you may understand.

And then he, he goes on. And here's where you [00:38:00] see really masterful teaching, like, um, Steve Harper said. That he's gonna ask simple questions. And here the question is unto, what were you ordained? Like that really is a thinker. Like, uh hmm. Let me think about that. What does ordain actually mean? Right? Like you would start digging if the Lord asked you that, that basically simple but, but deep question and you'd start figuring out.

And then in 14 he says, to preach my gospel by the spirit, even the comforter, which was sent forth to teach the truth. I love that the thete he uses there for the Holy Ghost in terms of teaching. The truth is comforter. There are a lot of epithets he could have used about the Holy Ghost, but the fact that truth brings comfort.

Is really awesome. And the thing that it that kind of led me to is one of my absolute favorite verses from Joseph Smith history verse 20. That part where he says like, he comes back from having this amazing experience in the field and he's just been overcome and everything that he's leaning on the fireplace.

And he says, as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, nevermind. All is well. I'm well enough off. I then said to my mother, I've learned for myself. And like, that is such an outstanding, perfect teacher that can get you to pull it out so you realize, oh, I figured it out.

It's so much more powerful and lasting when you have figured it out for yourself. And I think that these verses here were just a great illustration. Of how he works with us, how we might choose to work with people. We're trying to teach our family, children, loved ones, whatever, to to ask better questions.

Help them pull it out of themselves. So I love that part. I love when you jump, you take what we just learned from Mindy, this [00:40:00] concept of reasoning with the Lord and that relationship that it implies. And you see how he wants you to do that in 22, 23, 24, all these verses that are trying to teach you the how to.

For me this is the how to manual of this section. Oh, hold on, let me mark that. Yeah, I just think he's trying to help us 'cause he knows they're gonna deal with these questions. This is a relationship he's trying to teach them a little bit at time. So he says, okay, if you're, if you approach something that you don't understand, here are the questions I want you to ask.

So if you look 22, he says, wherefore he that preach it and he that receiveth understand one another. Both are edified and rejoice together. To me these are this like. Three-tiered power punch of how you can know if something is true first. Do you guys understand each other? You know, as great as the gift of tongues is, if it doesn't actually guide towards intelligence or something builds from it, it's not gonna help much.

So you're saying there's gotta be some understanding that has to happen and that both of you are edified in the process, is your second checkpoint. He's like, you should both feel lifted. You should both feel like you're coming closer to me. Somehow. That idea of edified being like an edifice, you know, something that is straight and true and strong.

He's saying you're both gonna feel straight or more aligned with me if you're both edified. And that the third one's my favorite, that if this is true and you're talking to somebody like we're talking now, you will feel joy. You'll never feel confusion, you won't feel darkness. I think that's really important 'cause all of us have had those conversations with friends or even family members where I.

It kind of dances on speculation a little bit or even a little bit of complaint against, you know, the brethren or the church policies. Mm-hmm. And you get this, even if what they're saying might be factually true in the moment it doesn't feel edifying and it doesn't feel joyful, and you start to get this like pit in your stomach, that's the spirit teaching you something about this isn't true.

It doesn't mean that your friend or your family member is trying to deceive you. It means you don't have the full picture. So I love when you tie all those understandings into what you [00:42:00] find in 23 and 24. So he says in 23, and that which does not edify is not of God and is darkness, but that which is of God is light.

And he, that receiveth light and continueth in God receiveth more light and that light growth brighter and brighter until the perfect day. To me, what he's saying is do those three checkpoints first, and if you can feel that you're heading towards light, I'm gonna keep giving you more. If you feel like you're heading towards darkness, set it aside.

You don't have to put it on a shelf, you don't have to pretend it's not there. But don't lean that way. Lean towards the light, and the more you lean towards light, the more I can actually just show you in the space around you. So to me, those verses all kind of flow together. Yeah. Yeah. I love when you were saying those great thoughts about the three power punch.

That's a great term for it. In verse 22, it, it strikes me the importance of the togetherness of it. Yeah. The community building, the communication part of it. Like, like you said, you know, speaking in tongues doesn't matter if it's not helping us communicate better with each other and whistle the Lord and I.

This idea that we're edified together and rejoice together. You know, to me, I always just picture gathering like, we don't gather alone. We're, yeah, the, the, it's inherent in gathering that we're coming together and that we're community building. We're building a Zion. And you know, we don't talk about being a Zion person.

We talk about being a Zion people because it's a group project and it takes all of us doing it together effectively. And then as you move into verse 24 there about that light just growing like this, this positive feedback loop that just gets better and better. I think one of the fascinating characteristics of light, especially say you have a candle, you can light as many other candles as you want with that candle.

It doesn't diminish your light. And [00:44:00] every candle in the room makes it brighter. And the togetherness of that and the community building ability. Of working together and brightening each other's ways, right? If we hold a lantern, we're not just lighting the wave for ourself who's ever around us is benefiting from that light as well and, and the added safety of it.

So I love those thoughts. That's awesome, Maria. Thank you. So awesome. Really quick, what comes to mind when you think of a time where you understood the person you were edified and you rejoiced? Is there a moment that you're like, boy, that was awesome. Oh, so many. I, I went to, I got a chance to go to Israel when I was 20 and when I was 40.

And both times I went with s Michael Wilcox as my guide. Oh. And I'm telling you guys, I, I can remember being, well, I think I was 19 when I, when I went, and I just had never, I mean, I'd never taken a class from him. I'd, I'd read a little bit. Uh, my mom loved him, so she mm-hmm. She was like, Maria, you've gotta do this with me.

And so we went together and my dad was there. I just remember listening to him teach. It didn't matter that we were in the holy land, although that added to the wonder. But I, this is exactly how I felt. I rejoiced, I was edified and I understood him. And I shouldn't have understood him. 'cause I was a 19-year-old kid, you know, like I shouldn't have got it the way I got it.

But because of the way he taught with the spirit and the holiness of that place, I was, I came away edified. And I'm telling you guys, I still stand on the foundations that I learned from. The years ago, you know, and it was just phenomenal to me. So those experiences, when I have those, you just have to like, I actually felt the same way when I read even Adam, the very first time Mini and I didn't even know each other.

Right. Yeah. And I was like, oh my word. It felt like that. Like all of a sudden I had a new foundation of un understanding of Christ to stand on. It was phenomenal. So nice. Thank you. I was thinking, I feel that way when I'm with both of you. Like if we go to lunch or we go on a hike, or we're in a drive, or we're driving up together or something, Tammy, oh, I felt it that day.

Right? It's like, mm-hmm. There's so much goodness to share. I just wanna soak it in. And you know, [00:46:00] sister sisterhood. It. We just need our ladies around us because if we can just like, oh, here's my candle. Can you please light this for me? You are glowing. I just need to get this close to you and it will light up and then I can hold it with me.

That is so satisfying to me. I'm so grateful for dear friends who share their light like that. And you guys are excellent. Same, excellent examples of that. I agree. Like I need that in my life. I need friends who believe, yeah. Who are believers. I just, oh, I relish in moments where I get to be with people who believe the same as me.

It just, and you get to talk about that stuff. It's so awesome. So awesome. Yeah. So Maria, I wanna go to verse 25, 'cause I'm curious to know. What's a fun way you would teach that verse? Do you have something? Oh, about tasting darkness? Yeah. This is one of my favorites that's, there's so many, okay. There's so many simple ones that you can do, but you wanna think about it like you can't, there's no light switch for darkness, right?

Darkness just means there's an absence of light. So even if you need something super fast and simple when you're trying to teach your kids, you can show them what happens when you turn out the light. That darkness just overwhelms it. But even the smallest degree of light, like if you take the smallest iPhone and you put it inside a church gym, I don't know if you've ever done this before, but No.

Church gyms are cavernous. They're these huge spaces and there's a ton of darkness there. You take one iPhone flashlight and you, you can see every wall. You can see the ceiling, you can see the floor. And if you took, like Mindy was describing, if you took 10 flashlights, then you can see more detail, more texture.

Mm-hmm. But it, the darkness is chased every time and it doesn't take a lot of light. I just think there's something so powerful about that understanding for kids to be like, I don't need to know all things. Just like you were talking about Tammy with sending missionaries out with. Just a clear description of the atonement in their life, what that testimony means to them.

That's enough light to illuminate a cavern. It doesn't give 'em every texture and every detail, but you know, you have people who've been around the darkness for a long time and they step into that light and they're like, this has been here the whole time. You know, just the, the awe and the wonder that happens in your heart when you first catch a glimpse of the [00:48:00] savior in his reality is it's powerful.

That illumination is incredible. Oh, I love that example that you just gave. That would be so fun to do with kids. Yeah. Easy, fast. Fast to get in something so dark, because I remember, I, I do remember going inside of a cave, anos cave in Provo, and I remember hiking into that cave and one of the people that took us on the tour said, okay, I'm gonna turn out the lights, guys.

I just want you to see how dark it is in this cave. And he turned it out. And I remember like, it was a little bit freaky, but what freaked me out more were my eyes. I looked everywhere for light. I kept trying to find any glimmer of anything. I could not see a single thing. And that was freaky because I just thought if I could just see one little thing that was lit up, I'd feel like I was centered again.

Like, okay, ah. And when he turned one little light back on, I remember thinking, oh my eyes. Like, it just was such a weird experience. And I think it's the same. When you go to verse 25, and again, verily I say unto you, and I say it, that you may know the truth, that you may chase darkness from among you, and it just has to be a little bit of truth that can chase away darkness, that light.

I think times in our lives where we have looked for the light, maybe we've been in such darkness that we, and you know that heavenly father's like, just look. Just look. I just need to see a little bit. Yeah. And, and that's all. It will chase darkness. I think it works that fast. And the adversary's a coward.

You know, like he, he cowers when truth is present. That's why he has to retreat. It's what you saw with Moses when he encounters the adversary. Remember he like tries to get all this bluster, and Moses is like, I actually can be just my normal self with you, so you can't be someone I can worship. And immediately saying, throws a tantrum and then leads.

It's just like he can't, yeah. Can't stand up to that kind of darkness or to that kind of truth. And so he's just like. I've got you. You know, I just think sometimes we get so intimidated 'cause our light seems so dim. You know, I think there's several conference talks about this, but we think our wattage is not bright enough to illuminate anyone else's fear.

And we forget what darkness feels like. And even the littlest glimmer, like you talked about in that cave, the littlest amount of [00:50:00] light is something I will now draw myself towards. Mm-hmm. In the hope that, you know, I can see something, there's some power there. Oh. 'cause just a little bit of light will help you.

It'll help you get out of the cave that darkness. For sure. So, great discussion, ladies. Oh my goodness. Okay, so here we go. Next segment, then segment five, we're gonna talk about one verse that helps us understand an eternal truth when it comes to receiving. God. This is a cool verse. We'll do that next.

Segment 5

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So Melinda, you pointed out section 50 verse 34, and I this year I have an eternal truth color, that I'm highlighting everything in my scriptures. That's an eternal truth because in the Come Follow Me manual at the very beginning it says, encourage your students to look for eternal truths. And I remember thinking that's such a big term, like eternal truth, but I've realized it's true.

Whatever's true, whatever you read, that is an absolute truth. So I highlighted a lot in Section 50, but when you pointed out 34, I went and highlighted it. And I want you to teach us about this verse. Why is it an eternal truth? Okay, well let's read the verse first. It says He that receiveth of God let him account it of God and let him rejoice that he is accounted of God worthy to receive.

Have it sounds like a puzzle to me like it sounds Yes, could, could figure this out. It's a little bit, it's a little bit pish, but I think the first portion let him account it of God. That immediately pulled me to section 59 verse 21, which is one of my, the whole section, I just am in love with section 59, but verse 21 says, in nothing death man, offend God or against none is his wrath.

Kindle say, those who confess not his hand in all things. And you know, 59, the whole thing. I think of this as like the awe section of the doctrine and covenants because it's talking about how everything is for the, for the benefit and [00:52:00] for joy of. Humanity to enjoy taste and smell and feelings and all of our senses and all of these things.

And so it's, it's just like abundance of goodness from the Lord. And then this one crucial piece that the only thing that makes him sad is when we don't acknowledge like, oh, look at what he has done for us. And so that is, is the first piece of why I really, really love this part. Um, that it's the reminder that it's just crucial that we see the blessings and name them.

That was a blessing. That was the Lord's hand in my life today. Right. Um, yeah, like Elder Ire said in that wonderful conference, talk about just before you go to bed at night, just think and write down where have you seen the Lord's hand in your life today. And so we need to acknowledge those. So I think that's huge.

I. It's kind of like our, our brothers and sisters, I always love this from the South, who just say, yes, praise Jesus, or God is good. Like it makes my heart so happy when my daughter will say that when something good happens in her life, she'll say, God is good. I'm like, maybe that, is that what it's talking about?

When we accounted of God, we're like, God is good. Yeah. Call it out. Yeah. I think you're so right. We, um, we're a little more reserved than some of our Christian siblings and like it behooves us to point it out and what a blessing to our children or the people around us. You know, nobody's gonna be uncomfortable if you suddenly were like, oh, look how good God is.

Like that is just the simplest witness that. Demonstrate it. Let's just be, be a little bolder and braver. And that's an easy, that's like easy, bold to just be like, oh, God loves us. Oh, that's so cool. You know? I think that's awesome. And then that second half, um, let him rejoice that he is account of God worthy to receive.

I think that's a beautiful idea. And um, you know, [00:54:00] it's important for us to remember that our job is not to be perfect, right this very second. Uh, that's something that comes later and we're only ever perfect in Christ and through Christ and by Christ, right? That that idea of eternal completion is something that is all about Jesus Christ.

But our job is to trust the Lord and to be loyal to him. And so really striving. The goal. And um, yeah, I like to think of striving like a math equation. And it just, this struck me a long time ago, and I just think about it all the time when I think, okay, just keep striving, just keep taking a baby step forward is that striving is struggling, plus trying, plus surviving.

And some days that's like the best we got, right? We're just hanging on. But we're, but we don't let go. And some days that's what striving looks like, but as long as we're striving, he can hardly wait to help us. Right. That's what we've been talking about this whole episode. Um, but this idea of worth and worthiness we get really hung up on, I think especially younger people.

Our, tell me what you mean by that. Well, I, I think they're complicated words because they're so similar to each other. I, it's too bad we, we don't have very separate words because worth our worth is infinite. The Lord loves us perfectly and completely. We have divine worth. We know that. And I like to think of that as his side of the equation.

That's like a given. It's fixed, it's complete, it's perfect. Our side is like the worthiness idea. And I think of that as that's where we're reaching for him. That's our striving, our readiness and willingness to receive the gifts that we've been talking about and all those blessings that he wants to pour out on us.

And so like when we seek that rejoicing that that, [00:56:00] like the Lord believes I'm worthy to receive the goodness he's pouring out, it's just a reminder of how completely, infinitely perfectly he loves us. Mm-hmm. And my job is to work toward reaching back to him to demonstrate that readiness to recede.

That's the worthiness piece. And that's, that's on me. I just need to redirect. I need to turn toward him. I need to follow the light. I need to reach toward the light. I need to borrow some light from one of my girlfriends or whatever. Right. And like all those things that I think that the companionship of those two ideas, sometimes we get tangled.

Yeah. I have to decouple it a little. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I like to swap in prepared. I think it's a little easier to, and I, this isn't my original idea. I remember hearing it, Mindy, you might remember there was an episode on Faith Matters a long time ago with a couple from Great Britain and they.

Yes. He references, I can't remember their names. Mm-hmm. But he, he said he would swap in prepared for worthiness if he could change our vernacular. And I love that concept. 'cause you could see how, if, if he is counted of God prepared to receive, it means the exact same thing. Yes. But it's less confusing about my divine worth.

You know, it means I've made myself ready, which is a worthiness thing. I've, I've done what I can to purify and to cleanse and to use the grace of, of Christ, all those things. But to be prepared to receive this means he sees me like a receiver on a football field with the grippy gloves and I'm like looking right at him and I'm ready to catch this ball.

Yes. But for me, that helps, especially as I'm talking to my teenagers to use those words. I, I agree. And I think Ready, ready is so perfect as well. Sometimes I think we think of prepared as like the Boy Scout or the Girl Scout who's got every tool on their belt and all these things, and Ready is even a little step under prepared in that.

It's like, well, I want to be able to do all that. It's, it's the desire. Right. Yeah. And I think [00:58:00] both parts. I agree. The grippy gloves help like throw me the ball because I'm caught the gloves on, but, but the, just the desire to be ready to do it and, you know, again, striving it's trust and loyalty. That's our job.

Face him, just keep our eyes right there focused and it, it will work out and he wants to pour out the blessings. Wow. I wrote in my scriptures when you were talking, both of you, our worthiness, when you define worth and worthiness, I wrote, our worthiness doesn't affect our worth. Which I'm like, oh, okay.

But then when you redefined it, then I wrote, our preparedness doesn't affect our worth, right? Mm-hmm. Like wherever we are on that spectrum of being prepared, and like you said, our readiness, our preparedness, wherever we are, it doesn't affect that we are of divine worth. Right. That's huge. Yeah. Yeah. It might change your opportunities for the ball to get thrown to you.

It might change that. But the, the beauty of, of Jesus Christ as our quarterback is he never says, well, she doesn't catch the ball. I'm not gonna throw to her. He, he just assumes every player is ready and he looks, and as soon as you're ready, he will throw you the ball. There is never a time when you'd be like, well, I missed 20 years of family scripture study, so he'll never throw me this ball.

That's not his nature. He looks at everybody the same. 'cause your worth never changed. Doesn't matter whether you've followed him or not, as soon as you Oh, I love the sports analogy. I love that. Sorry to take it off football, Lee. Oh, I love it because I love football. Your worth is, you made the team. Yeah, he is.

You didn't get caught like you made covenants. You're here and you're here. Your name's on his jersey. You took it upon you, so yeah. That is good. That is great. Look at you with your analogy. See, get your kids out. Play football. And you just taught 'em about verse 34. Yes. Can I have one last little thought on 34?

Please do. It didn't even hit me until Mindy was talking. I love that he says, I want you to count yourself worthy. You're prepared to receive. I think what he's saying here is, good job. You know, like, you were ready and you were worthy. Please give yourself credit for the fact that you were here today. You know, like, I think mm-hmm.[01:00:00]

It's the same thing he says in the New Testament when he turns to people and he says, thy faith have made the whole, he's trying to help them see you came to this equation and I helped you, but good job on what you brought to the table because he wants us to feel loved and you know that we did something.

And even if it was imperfect, he recognizes it. I, I just had never thought of it that way until you heard Mindy reading it. I'm like, that's, that's his nature. He just wants to build you from the inside out. Absolutely. I, I love everything you both shared. 'cause isn't this fascinating that. These answers are coming in a section where we're experiencing spiritual phenomena.

People claiming that they're having spiritual experiences. And rather than the Lord saying, you're not, it's ridiculous. Knock it off. Right? Which is what, as a parent I would do. What I love about our father is that this verse for us today, because he's saying, listen, it's all around us. This spiritual phenomena isn't people speaking in tongues.

At least it's not for me. This, this spiritual phenomena and people claiming to receive revelations and visions and all of this different stuff really is about verse 6, 7, 8, and nine with this word hypocrites, which comes from a Greek word, meaning an actor or a pretender. And I just think of how many times I come across that in my life and this idea where Satan does, does not want you to feel of worth, I.

And he has everything out there in the world to make sure that you feel, I love that you just taught us that both of you, that you don't feel worthy and that you're of no worth. And that the two words are interrelated and they're just not. Like, what we've just find right here and talked about in these last 15 minutes is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You're of infinite value, divine worth. You're being ready, you're being prepared. He wants to throw you the ball, you've made the team, you're wearing the jersey. All the things and anything else that teaches counter to that is wrong. And by the way, sister run Ya's talk in April. General conference absolutely solidifies this truth beautifully.

Sid, this is so cool how he did [01:02:00] that. 'cause I feel like 50 is for us today. Mm-hmm. It was for them then, but it was more obvious. It's so much more subtle now. 'cause Satan's just the worst and he is so good. And verse three says, Satan has sought to deceive you. I guess he, yeah. Amen. That is the world we live in today.

So let's just teach everyone this idea of verse 34. Wow, that was powerful. You two. Wow. Yeah. Well, and you know, even just as you said that, I think too with, with Satan trying to deceive us, part of the way he wants to deceive us is to get us thinking, oh, this is about you, and look at how amazing you are and all of this.

And I think part of an underlying theme in 34 as well is, is don't take the credit for yourself. Give it to the Lord and then recognize you were worth blessing that way. So like it's a win-win for, for everybody. But it's not, it's, it's not an ego booster in a prideful sense. Right. It's a, a love boost.

Right. Oh, love a non, I love a Love Boost. Love Boost. I don't know that. I don't know if that's, that should be a hashtag. That should be hashtag love boost. That's awesome. Okay. I'm putting out in my scriptures hashtag. This is so awesome. All right, so in the next segment we're going to talk about one more verse of scripture, and we're gonna tie it all together.

We'll do that next.

Segment 6

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We are still in Doctrine and Covenant section 50, and we're gonna talk about some verses at the very end of this section. And I'm telling you right now, you guys, I could do this forever, right? They just do good guys. Just have a podcast all the time, right? I'm just gonna have to keep having you guys back.

This is so fun. So fun. I'm in. Yeah. Especially if we get to talk about verses like this. 'cause 42 says, and none of them shall, my father and, and none of them that my father has given me shall be lost. And this is the savior, you know, giving us that beautiful object lesson that he does about him being the [01:04:00] shepherd and us being the sheep.

And you almost have to read it in the flow of 40 and 41, where he invites you to grow in grace. Remember, he knows we're gonna be beginners at this and he's supplying all of the grace. And so he just says, you know, just continue to grow, get a little bit closer to me each day. And then says, fear not you're mine.

I've overcome the world. And then that one in 42, what, what hit me so hard with this verse is. No one ever is lost. Um, even if you want to be lost, even if you try to be lost, you know, the same way if you probably had a little kid try to run away when, you know, I've never had a kid that was like so grumpy when they were nine and they tried to put a little knapsack together and run like they think every one of my kids, all of them tried to run away.

Yeah. They think they're lost. They think they're in Kato and you know exactly where they would go. And you know exactly what time they're gonna get hungry and you know. Exactly. You know, you just know. And so they come back and I just feel like this is what the Lord knows. He's like, none. I know you so well, better than you know yourself.

I've known you for all time. You are mine. And so I know you and I'm gonna seek you out. What I love about the imagery, in fact, in my margins on my iPad, I've got a picture of the savior with the sheep and also a picture of the savior knocking at the door. 'cause what I love about those two images side by side is we often think about the savior knocking on the door waiting for us to open it, and that's one component of the Savior's character.

He is always waiting and hoping we will open the door, but he's also the savior who. Opens up the door and seeks us and, and will, he will never stop trying to connect with you. That's the nature of his covenant relationship. That's the hassed love that we've talked about so many times. It's, it's this beautiful covenant love that he says, I'm not going anywhere and that I'm gonna keep finding you.

And if, you know, I always picture myself like this dirty, broken lamb that he's willing to put on his shoulders, but if I jump from those shoulders because I'm panicked or I'm afraid he'll let me jump. And then he walks patiently until he knows I'm gonna get stuck in some other Briar person, you know?

And he just offers it [01:06:00] again. He is like, Maria, do you wanna get up now? And sometimes I don't and I stick it out and I get injured again. And sometimes I say, I'm out of ideas. Yes, please pick me up. And there's just this. His promise is, no matter what you've done, Maria, you are never lost. I know right where you are and I will find you.

You don't even have to come to me at the beginning. I'll find you and invite you to get up here. You know, that's, that's what he offers. So to me that was just this, you know, tender. That's why we call him the Good Shepherd because he doesn't have an agenda. Mm-hmm. And he, I mean, he has a mission that he's doing for God the father, but he doesn't have a timetable.

He'll seek you till eternity ends, which turns out is never. And so he will, he will continue to seek. Hmm. Wow. Oh my goodness. Let's do this. Let's read verses 40 through 44. 'cause they're just so good. Gorgeous. After what you just taught us now. Now apply everything she taught us and all the imagery in your mind.

And we're gonna read these verses we'll each take a turn. We'll start with Mindy, then Maria, then me. Okay. 40 says, behold E are little children and you cannot bear all things. Now you must grow in grace and in the knowledge of the truth. You're not little children for you are mine and I have overcome the world and you are of them that my father has given me.

And none of them that my father have given me shall be lost. And the Father and I are one. I am in the Father and the Father in me. And in as much as you have received me, you're in me. And I in you. Therefore, I am in your midst. I am the good shepherd and the stone of Israel. He that build it upon this rock shall never fall.

Why do you think he calls us little children? Because we've earned it. Such a good reminder. We're just little kid. It's in the grand scheme of things, right? We're still in kindergarten. It's so true. And thank good risk for that. 'cause you get forgived really fast when you're in kindergarten. You know, you just, it's anticipated.

You'll make a lot of mistakes and you'll be very open to correction and all those things. It's a [01:08:00] compliment, I think. Yeah. Oh, I like that. It is a compliment. I think so too. What do you think, Tammy? Well, I like that you said it's a compliment because then it made me think like, so when you mess up and when our little children mess up, our little kids, when they mess up, you're just so kind to them.

Yeah. You're like, oh, it's okay. Let's figure it out, buddy. You know? Yeah. You're just, you're so much more forgiving when they're little children than when they're older or adults. You're like, haven't you figured this out yet? What is your problem? Seriously, get it together. And I love that the Lord is calling us little children.

'cause I, I have to remember, he views us like that. Like no matter how many times we mess up, like little kids do us, okay, come on, let's, let's do this together. And not just any little children. Mine, you know, he's like, you're my little child. Which is so much more tender to me. 'cause he's, he's not just saying like, I love all kids.

They make mistakes. He's saying, you're my kid, which means you're gonna grow up to be like me if you'll just listen to me. You know? It's almost like this hope of I'm your, I'm going, you're gonna get to where I am. Just stick with me. And to me it's Hope Fields. Yeah. Well, it's, it's clear his perspective is so much grander, right?

So often like you look at a kindergartner and their life is ruined if they, their picture got smashed in their backpack or whatever and right, like it's, it's exponentially a larger perspective that the parent has. Mm-hmm. That it's easy to just smile and put their arms around them and flatten out the picture and make a new one.

It's all okay, you know, perspective, it's huge for sure. In fact, it, let's cross reference, let's put doctrine and covenants 49, 27 next to these verses. 'cause it makes me go back to where we started and you mentioned and talked about this, Maria, but I love verse 27 so much because it makes me think of hiking.

And he says, behold I will go before you. And be your rear word and I will be in the midst. And [01:10:00] I don't know, do you guys remember doing young women's hikes at girls camp? And you had, you always had a leader in front who led the hike to warn you of anything coming up. Like, don't trip on that rock. Watch out.

There's a snake, whatever it is. So he's saying, I will go before you on this trail of life, and then I will be your rear word. That's the guy. That's the one in the, that's me in the very back going, I'll pull up, you know, I'll make sure there's no stragglers and I can go a lot slower. But he's there saying, I'll pick up anybody that falls.

I will be in the rear word. And then in the midst, I'll be the guy in the middle too, to make sure I picture, that's the camp leader, that's s singing songs with all the girls, right? Mm-hmm. I just love that he has those three roles in this journey that we're going on. I'll be before you in the rear and in the midst.

And I love this 'cause you're my little child and I don't wanna lose you. And I think Maria, how you taught us that, like no one's gonna get lost on this hike. I promise you're all gonna come out of this safe just fine. I remember my daughter went on her fourth year camping hike. She was so scared and she didn't really wanna do it.

And I looked at the leaders and I said, listen to me. The only way she comes off this mountain is life flight. She's got to do this hike. I had no mercy. But I just think it's awesome 'cause we have to do the hike. There's no if, ands or buts about it. But I love that we have a camp director. Or a leader that's like, I'm in all three of these places, so you're gonna make it, you're gonna be fine.

Yep. So just stay with me. Right? Yeah. All these applications. Yeah. That's such a good visual. I even think of it, you know, like in labor where I feel like, you know, people are right in your face and they're trying to guide you from, right. 'cause they know how in distress you are. And it, he's like, I've, I've got every side of you.

And one way or another you're getting through this. Like, that's what I felt like people would say all the time when I was, I have six kids. And that's what they would say. Like, there's no other way through this. We just have to get to the other side. And I think that's what the Lord is saying. He's like, you're in this fallen place and there's no other way through.

So you can run and you can jump from my shoulders. And you can, you can try lots of things. And I understand. I, I mean I think that's what you learned in the New Testament. He understands Yeah. Why you jump and why you run and why you hide. [01:12:00] But he's like, there, there's just no other way. I'm the only way through.

And it's, it's kind. And the secret is he's with us, right? It's Emmanuel. Yeah. Every bit of it is Emmanuel God with us. Yes. If we're at the front doing great today, he's with us. If we're at the back barely keeping up, he's with us. That's middle. That's a good way to say ITing along or wanting to chat while we hike.

Whatever he's with us. Love that. And I think that's great. I love that name for the savior so much. I'm gonna write that next to verse 27. Yeah, that's an awesome thought. Hold on. That is awesome because in Hebrew, EL means God and emanu means with us. So that is literally what it means. God is with us, so, oh, that's cool.

Wow. Love it. Well, ladies, we're done. That's the end. That was such a delightful discussion. Oh my gosh. Wow. I felt the spirit from beginning to end. That is truly, I mean, if we are not verses 22 through 24 in section 50. I feel like I have understood you. I have been edified. I wanna rejoice like Right. This has been so cool, so good.

And I love that anyone can do this. Everyone listening, find your friends. Study the scriptures together. This is so fun. Oh, okay. So gather your thoughts. Think about everything we talked about today and what is one eternal truth that resonates or came with back to you or that you learned? Oh, there were so many good ones.

I, I jotted down several, many notes. Um, one that I really loved. I loved when Maria was talking about tasting and like, he just wants us to taste it and recognize it tastes good. And it occurred to me as you were saying that Maria, that, you know, it is an intriguing, um. I'm pretty sure this is the scientific truth.

I feel like I've read this a lot of times that for a child, some tastes are an acquired taste and sometimes it takes multiple tastes of something before they start to [01:14:00] recognize that as delicious. And it's, it's interesting that tastes are unique and maybe each of us have something that we want to learn to like this thing, but we have to be willing to taste it a couple of times.

Right? Yeah. Your palate needs to develop. Yes, it does. And, and maybe you're not quite there. I mean, maybe it's just something like, I think a black licorice that's like a grownup taste, right? I mean, maybe there's some children who like it. I, I kind of wonder if maybe moms finally learned to love black licorice.

'cause that's the leftover treat they're always given from the Halloween bag or I think you're right. Yes. So we learned to like it, but, but you know, maybe there are some things that it's just gonna take a little bit more maturity for us to appreciate the taste of them. We can still keep trying to taste them and give it a chance later.

And maybe if somebody else prepares it differently, you'll like it. I mean, think of Brussels sprout. They used to be like the the evil vegetable. Right? And now, oh well we love Brussels sprouts. Or on every appetizer menu there's so many good ways. 'cause when you coat 'em in sugar and uh, it's alls like vinegar Mine.

Yeah. Anyway. Wow. That's awesome. I love that one. Love that. Well I like that. Yeah, that was great. Thank you Maria for enlightening me. Well mine came from one of yours, Mindy. I would go back to verse 10 of section 50. 'cause I loved when you were talking about lettuce reason together that you may understand.

I just think there's such. What I wrote in the margin is reason equals relationship. For him to reason together with us means he wants a relationship with us. Yes. And if he just came out in a dogmatic way and said, here's what I need to do, and how, then we wouldn't develop the relationship at all.

Instead, he's like, let's reason this out. I'm gonna ask you some questions. I want you to just think about this and tell me what you think. And then, you know, you can almost see how he was guiding his apostles in the New Testament where he would just throw these things and they're like, what? You know, they did know how to process it.

And over the course of those three years, they learned how to think as he thinks. And anyway, I just think everything he he has in these sections when it applies to us, is I want a [01:16:00] relationship with you no matter what that looks like. And it's on your terms. I want to be close. Come close to me. And I love with that what, um, Tammy added about looking at the definition of reason being disgusting on, like that's, that fills out the idea of that so well, so yeah.

You two agreed. Amazing. Oh, it was so fun. Um, listen Maria, I love that you started us out by just setting the tone to give place. Mm-hmm. That was so powerful for me. I've never considered these two sections as being ones where we need to give place for this word. 'cause I was thinking earlier, it'd be so easy to have kept these out, like shakers.

Yeah. Uh, whatever. Does it apply to anybody? Yeah. Read in church history, it's fine. But when you really dive into these verses like you both have done, you have to give place for these words. So I love that you started us out with that. And then I thought it was so cool how you connected Lehman to Amuic.

Like, yeah, that was cool. That was awesome. I have, I cannot, how do I choose one? I have so many notes in these sections. I left my margins empty on purpose and I have filled them up so. I love you both. That was so cool. Likewise. Oh my gosh. Thank you. Thank you for being here today. That was a delight. Thank you.

Such a gift. Thank you. Wow. I have so many eternal truths from this discussion. I can't believe how many things just hit me so hard. I want you to join our Facebook or follow us on Instagram and share what you've learned. And then at the end of the week on a Saturday, we post question from this discussion.

So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday. And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway because it's where we have links to all the references and a transcript of this whole discussion, so go check it out.

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our incredible study group participants were Maria Eckersley and Melinda Wheelwright Brown. And you can find more information about my friends at [01:18:00] ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday.

Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember that you can never get lost. He sees you and you are his favorite.