The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

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Segment 1

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This week we get to study doctrine and covenants, sections 85 through 87, and all I'm gonna say is this, a letter, a parable, a punishment, and a prediction that about sums up these sections and they are filled with so much goodness and faith affirming truths that one episode may not be enough time to discuss it.

Especially with my guests. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living where we take the Come Follow Me lesson for the week, and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. If you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come Follow Me study, just like my longtime listening friend Kathy Cahoon, who said hi to me in Chick-fil-A and it was the coolest.

Hi Kathy. Now another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different and I've never put these two together, but I've wanted to and I'm so excited to introduce you to Becky Farley and Shauna Argyle. Hello, ladies. Hello. Hi, Tam. Hi Shauna.

Oh, Farley's in the house. It's been a while back. It's been a while. I know. I kind of said, ah, dang it. I thought I was out of this. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No way. You're part of the OG Bible study group for the reason we're even here. It's true. But then we knew we had to have Shauna because she's been on before with Tamu and I, when we got done with that episode, I was, the spirit was like, oh, she's not done.

Like, there's so much goodness you can share. It was so Can't wait. So fun. I, I already love Shauna. Right? Oh, that's so nice. Met her, met her two minutes ago. I already love her. Mm-hmm. And Shauna's excited. I still bring this up. Shauna, you're the one who taught us that when we take the sacrament, instead of thinking of all the things we could do better, we're supposed to just think of what we did good that week.

I've loved that. Yeah. I totally remember that. Mm-hmm. That was you that said that. Yeah. How wise. I love it. I'm just gonna sit back. I'm just [00:02:00] gonna sit back, not say a what? We'll see. We'll see. Mm-hmm. We'll see. Yeah. No, this gonna be a good discussion 'cause both of you deal with therapy and healing and helping people, so you both have a lot to say, which is gonna be so fun.

Thrilled about this. Shauna has a little, uh, she'd like everyone to know though, and I'm gonna say it for she has allergies, which is why she sounds like Yes. You know, her voice is a little raspy. It is. I love Texas. It has my heart, but right now it's trying to kill me with my allergies though. God, geez.

We're, we're on the upswing though. Oh, it's good. Okay. Well, I know you probably are wanting to know what my guests look like and read their bios and find fun facts about them. So go read those in our show notes and you're gonna find them at lds living.com/sunday on Monday. So just grab your scriptures and something to mark them with.

And let's dig into sections 85 through 87. Okay, first things first, ladies, what did the Holy Ghost teach you when you were reading these sections? So I know that in, um, this podcast today, we're gonna talk a lot about the spirit. And so my reading took me to a different section. Am I allowed to read from a different section?

Because as I was, as I was reading the section, then it said, oh, okay. Read in Doctrine and Covenants eight verses two and three Oh. Which are like some of my very favorite verses ever. But something really came to me like more than what I've ever read before. So the scriptures in doctrine and covenants a two and three are, yay.

Behold, I will tell you, in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart. And I know that we're gonna get a lot into the spirit with this discussion, but that word dwell. It just sat with me for a long time because it didn't say the Holy Spirit's gonna invade your heart, [00:04:00] or It's not even gonna visit, it's gonna dwell.

And Tam, you know, I am so all about cozy, right? Yeah. I wanna always put on my sweats. I wanna always get a blankie. I wanna always have a little drink with my, you know, I wanna, I wanna get cozy. Guess what that word dwell is? To dwell is cozy. Oh. So the Holy Spirit is gonna come get cozy in your heart. And I don't know that just like I changed so much for me.

Mm-hmm. Because so often there's not a fear with it, but maybe you feel like, oh, I gotta be ready, or I gotta No, you're not like. Get cozy with the spirit. It's gonna dwell, it's gonna stay there with you. So just in regards to what we're gonna be talking about, I just loved that word that it's gonna come.

The spirit is gonna come and dwell in your heart. Barley. I love the connection you had to also being in sweats and being comfy because it makes me realize I don't have to have on a dress Yes. And be in a chapel for the Holy Ghost to dwell with me. Like it will dwell with me as I am. Yes. And I think that's very important for us to recognize, because so often I think in our culture, and I'd love to your opinions on this, we kind of set it up by saying, if we do something irreverent or rambunctious, we go, oh, the spirit leaves you, or The spirit can't be here.

There's some truth to that. However, we remove ourselves from the spirit. I think we're a little too harsh on ourselves when it comes to the spirit dwelling with us. And I, I love it. Oh, you know, I wanna jump up and say amen to that. It dwells with us. We are so too harsh on ourselves. Yeah. And it's not gonna visit.

It's gonna dwell. It's gonna dwell. Thank you, Farley. That was great. Okay. Shauna, what about you? [00:06:00] What the Holy Ghost teach you? Okay. I really love the, the par of the wheat and the terrace is one of my very favorites. And I, um, as I was reading, I'm gonna read section 86 verses six and seven, and then just share a couple thoughts I had.

It says, but the Lord sayeth unto them, pluck not up the tears while the blade is yet tender. Verily your fake is weak, lest you destroy the wheat also, therefore, let the wheat and the tears grow together until the harvest is fully ripe, then you shall first gather out the wheat from among the tears and after the gathering of the wheat behold and low, the tears are bound in bundles and the field remaineth to be burned.

And I, I just have been thinking this week a lot about what is the value of. Wheat and the TAs growing together. And I think a lot of times we, 'cause we're members of the church and we probably associate a little bit more with the wheat side, we think it's so good for the TAs to, to, to grow with us. But I've actually been thinking on the flip side of that, how it might be good for us to grow near what is perceived to be as tears.

And, um, it's interesting 'cause I, I live outside Utah and what would be considered the Bible belt. Mm-hmm. And my children are growing up. There's a really strong, uh, robust group of members of the church out here. But for the most part, most of their friends are not, we're not LDS and so, but they're good people.

And I just have been thinking a lot about that and what a blessing. It was in their life to have lunch and have discussions with people about what they did believe. They had a lot of opportunity to share that and a lot of people around them asking questions. My next [00:08:00] door neighbor is the lead pastor for the biggest church in my town.

Wow. They have a huge presence. Cool. And my husband and him have developed, you know, a good friendship and there have been times where we've collaborated, you know, our faith community in theirs and we brought about Great good as a result of some of our association there. And so, um, I just think it's, I think it's been a blessing in my life to grow up, you know, around people of a lot of different beliefs.

Some, some don't believe in Christianity at all. Maybe their, their faith tradition is, is another God. But I just think it's really been, I see the wisdom in it. I really do. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well this is, if that's just, that, just kind of wet our whistle for that parable because when we get to it, Shauna's gonna teach it to us.

And what I love is she said, I'm passionate about this parable, so I'm gonna tease that right there. I am. I cannot wait to get to that. So thanks for prepping that, and thank you for I am, I'm now, I'm so excited about what you're gonna teach us. Okay. So then let's do this, let's just get into the next segment then.

It's not the Wheat and Tars, but it is about a letter and we're gonna show you who wrote it and who it was for. Next.

Segment 2

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I, I'm just curious, when was the last time either one of you wrote a letter? Oh, I actually love to write letters. Oh, you do? Yes. It's part of my like 25 and 25. I set 25 things I wanna do, you know, in 2025. And one of them is to write a handwritten note twice a month. Whether it's like, you know, a really nice letter to a friend on her birthday, or whether it's maybe a letter to one of the youth that gave a talk at church that I, you know, got something from, or whatever.

I just feel like it's a dying art. Mm-hmm. That's cool. So nobody does it [00:10:00] anymore. We write emails. Oh yeah, we write texts. But a handwritten note. Yeah. And you know what? You can't see my office, but I actually have handwritten notes around me that if people have written me over the years, I just treasure them.

So I love that. But not very many people really, no. Take the time to do it anymore because we become such a wait. Society, you know, we wanna just bust it out in a text or an email. Wow. I love that. What a good challenge. Everyone write a letter this week to someone. Because as we are going to see in this next section, letters are important.

In fact, this one letter made its way into the doctrine and covenants turn to section 85. Here's a little bit of history about Section 85. It is actually a letter and it was a letter written by Joseph Smith to WW Phelps. He's living in Independence, Missouri. And it answered some questions that the Saints had who were moving to Zion, but they had not followed the commandment to consecrate their properties.

And so Joseph is writing a letter about what to do and what this is looking like as people are moving into Missouri. And so he writes this big long letter and the first thing he says that he wants them to do is verses one and two. Shauna, can you read those for us please? Sure. It is a duty of the Lord's clerk whom he has appointed to keep a history and a general church record of all things that transpire in Zion.

And of all those who consecrate properties and receive inheritances legally from the bishop. Also their manner of life, their faith and works, and also of the apostates who apostatize after receiving their inheritances. Okay? So bracket off versus one through two. Because one of the things they're going to keep our membership records, that's what it's talking about, a general church record, which is what we have today.

This is where we get the idea to keep membership records. But more importantly, before it was even a general church record, Shauna, what's the first thing he wanted him to keep [00:12:00] a journal? Yay. A record, a history. Highlight that. Don't you love how in verse two he says also their manner of life, their faith, their works, all the things that they're just gonna keep a history and that they're going to write about.

And so I asked you guys to think about this, like why do you think the Lord wants us to keep a history and do you keep histories or journals? Why do they matter?

Well, I, I have to confess that, um, for the first few years that I was a therapist, I used to tell people to journal in my office all the time because I knew there was a lot of really good, um, positive effects that it could have on emotional wellbeing, but I didn't do it myself. And then, um, if I'm being honest, I heard Gene Paige, who I know has been a guest on your podcast as well.

Um, she was on an episode of All In and she talked about how she became an avid journaler because of a family home evening lesson that her mother did when she was like 11 or 12 years old. And she sold me on it when I heard that, that episode. And so I decided that I was gonna start, I have my journal here, and I decided that I was gonna become a journaler and I just.

I'm, I'm forever converted. I just think there's so many great things that come from it. Um, not only can it really, um, improve your sense of wellbeing, uh, there's a lot of studies that say that it helps you achieve goals. If you are, you know, more prone to write them down, you hold yourself accountable. It offers perspective because sometimes you'll write about something and in the moment it seems like it's such a big deal.

And then you'll go back several months later and realize that that situation kind of resolved itself and you didn't need to worry. And it, it just can be helpful from that perspective. I used to keep a blog many, many [00:14:00] years ago. Mm-hmm. And my kids love to go back and find things that I wrote with pictures and everything else.

It just, it's really a healthy exercise to journal. Hmm. Why would you tell your patients to journal. It just creates a sense of awareness. Mm-hmm. There's something about, and, and to be honest, a lot of them do it digitally because I work with a lot of teenagers and that they just are much more comfortable doing things on their phones.

But there's something about pen and paper and just taking all the thoughts in your head and putting it down and then being able to, it helps you process emotion in a really healthy way. Um, I also for many years, taught mission prep and I always used to teach my class that, you know, we have coping skills that we use in everyday secular life.

That don't translate to a mission, but journaling is something that you can do on a mission, and it is a really good way to cope with stress and to kind of mull out relationship conflict, things like that. Writing it down can honestly help make it better, and it offers so much perspective. It helps you feel more grateful.

Um, if you're not feeling grateful, it helps with sleep hygiene because if you'll jot everything down before you go to bed and just empty your head, it, it creates a better situation for sleep. There's just so much. I could go on and on and on. Have I sold you yet? Yeah, I'm sold. Amen. I don't like it. Amen.

What about you, Farley? Have any journals made an impact in your life or have been important to you? Well, I think with, with my journaling, I. Generally write down three things that I'm grateful for a day. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm not great at writing down all the stuff, but I am pretty good about [00:16:00] saying I really liked the sunrise today or the sunset.

I really liked the smell of the blossoms outside of my house. I loved it when I ate dinner with Doug out on the patio. You know? Yeah. Whatever. Those just, and they're, and they're almost always very simple things, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, but I agree with Shauna that I think it brings perspective to your life that we tend to live in a trance in our heads, and we gotta, we gotta do something to, to get us out of that trance, whatever that is.

And I think a short journal or a long journal entry, and I agree with Shauna Pen to paper. And often in the middle of the night, if I have woken up with a, a dream or a thought or whatever, if I've got that paper right there, I can just get it. Just, even just, I mean, sometimes I can't read my handwriting.

I'm like, oh, that was probably something important. But, you know, when I wake up in the morning I'm like, it looks so crazy because I was trying to sleep. But anyway, I just think it's a really good, um, way of getting out of the trance of being in our heads. Yeah. And, and getting into the world. Did your mom keep a journal?

My mom, yeah. Yeah, my mom did not crazy. Have you read it at all? No, because I mean, I have read it in the past. It, it was mainly like. She didn't say nothing that's emotionally linked or, you know, which is where my head's always gonna go. I always want the emotional link to it. But it was just about what the family generally, what the family home evening.

That's when she, she had like a family home evening journal that she wrote. Oh, that's interesting. That I think, I'm sure she put like, what we, what the lesson was or whatever. Now you're making me wanna try to find that. I'm gonna go find that. [00:18:00] Yeah. You know, you bring up another good point that, that's worth mentioning, but journaling can help us, but it can also be a big source of inspiration for mm-hmm our, our kids and our grandkids.

I remember when I was going through a particularly difficult time in my life, um, and it was kind of a sustained, you know. It was just a, a one of those trials that there was a, a considerable amount of duration associated with it. And I remember distinctly having the thought one time, you come from a very long line of strong women.

That was the only thought. And then it made me ponder and seek out stories of, I have two grandmothers that had lots and lots of trials, one of which was a single mother during a time when women did not work. And she went to beauty school and opened up, you know, her own hair salon and stood on her.

That's so cool. For 50 years. And I just, I just started reflecting on that. So I would not know any of that if those women had not documented their life stories and shared that. And so journaling can be really helpful many, many years later to the people that you love and that love you. That's such a good point.

Yeah, absolutely. Because then I go back to what you said. I don't even know if you said, realize you said this, but I wrote it down because you said journaling helps to make it better, whatever it's we're going through and I can see how right now you just pointed that out, not only does it help but make it better for us by getting it out on paper, but if we can read someone's journal that we love, it's gonna help make it better.

Whatever we're situation we're in right then. So thank you for sharing your thoughts on journaling and challenge out there to everybody to start journaling. I love it. Whether it's writing three things you're grateful for at the end of the day, or writing about scenarios or moments in your life, it's important enough to the Lord that in this letter, the first thing he says is, and I'm, [00:20:00] and the, the conditions were that the saints were moving to Missouri.

But people were moving who weren't asked to move, which we're gonna get into in the next summary why that was such a problem. But before he addresses that issue, I think it's interesting to note that he says, okay, first and foremost, let's just keep a journal and a history of everything that's going on with these people, because it might help make it better.

Now, it didn't make it better for the Saints, but guess what? It's making it better for us today, and we're gonna show you how in the next segment,

Segmetn 3

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let's go back into section 85, because here's how keeping a history made it better. I just think that is so awesome. One of the things that the people were asked to do, in addition to keeping a history was this. So we're gonna go into verse four. Farley, can you read verse four? Yes. Of 85, right? Yes, please.

All right. Neither is there genealogy to be kept or to be had where it may be found on any of the records or history of the church? Now that seems weird 'cause it's an anti genealogy verse, right? Yeah. Okay. Let me tell you what that is weird. I know. Let tell you what's going on. This is so fascinating to me.

Okay. Here's what you wanna know. We had a major problem here with Section 85 and the reason the letter was written is because those who were called to go east to Missouri, they had to be prepared both physically and spiritually, meaning they had to be debt free. They had to have enough money to buy land when they got to Missouri and they had to have enough food and clothing for one year.

But the most important part, they had to have been called by the prophet with a recommend in hand to show up in Missouri that they came from Kirtland. Isn't that crazy? Wow. The problem was, is that unfortunately there were many enthusiastic yet disobedient members who just immigrated to Missouri [00:22:00] on their own.

They're like, I wanna be a part of it. Right. I love you're laughing, Farley. Sorry. They wanted to be, they wanted to be in the party. Yes. Well, they want, we all wanna be important. We all wanna be the one that's gonna change the whatever. Absolutely. And so the problem is, is that they just packed up and moved without observing the Lord's law, which is what we talked about in Section 42 and mm-hmm.

Without being called. And so they showed up in Missouri with no financial resources, no preparation. They weren't being obedient. And so it ended up being a financial drain on the church in Missouri, and as a result, they weren't able to establish Zion. So now the Lord is saying, here's one of the reasons I want you to keep a record and a history and a genealogy, because I want you to write down the names of everybody who shows up in Missouri.

Those called, those, not called, but by the way, verse four, he's saying neither is their genealogy to be kept or had the people who showed up who shouldn't be here. This is very important. They are not part of what I've assigned out. And so this seems a little harsh, but it's important for us to know that the history of this moment is being written here in scripture for all of us because God is a God of order.

And so as he's teaching how important it's to have order, he gives two Old Testament examples about how serious he is to not get ahead of the brethren, to not just assume that, oh, I know what's best, so I'm moving my family, even though we haven't been asked to do that, or I know what's best, so I'm gonna start my own church.

I know that's like the most egregious example, but right. He's saying like, no, there's a reason why we do things the way we do. So one of the examples he gives is in verse eight. So we read that for us, Shauna. This is an Old Testament story. Next to verse eight, write this cross reference Second Samuel chapter six, verse seven.

And go ahead S Shauna. Okay. While that man who was called of God and appointed that put it forth his hand to study the arc of God shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning. A little bit [00:24:00] crazy, but here's the reason for the story. Yes. He's saying, do you know the story, Shauna?

Yes, I remember it. It's pretty harsh, right. Um, he thought he was being helpful and he tried to study the arc in front of him and then he was struck down because of it, because he wasn't staying in his own lane. He was getting ahead of, of his authority. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's crazy because they're carrying the arc and when she says study it, it started to shake.

And this man realized, whoa, if I don't go and support the arc and push it back in its place, it's gonna fall on the ground. But he didn't have the rights to touch it. Only those from the tribe of Levi could. And so, and he knew that, but he thought he was doing something good. But the Lord was very clear, no one can touch this unless you belong to the tribe of Levi.

So he reached up to steady the arc and he was struck down dead in front of everybody. And you're like, but he was trying to help. That's what the Saints were saying. So here's the Lord using this as an example, saying you think you're trying to help, you're actually hurting the scenario. There's a reason why I have rules.

Mm-hmm. Now here's another Old Testament reference in section 85. So let's go to verse 12. And Becky, can you read verse 12? Yes. Therefore it shall be done unto them as unto the children of the priest, as will be found recorded in the second chapter and 61st and second verses of Ezra. Now highlight that reference, the second chapter, 61st and 62nd verses of Ezra.

So now there's another story right here. So here's the story that's found in that reference. So if you go to the Book of Ezra in this chapter, you're going to see this long genealogy list of names of people and it's broken up into two categories. The first verses are the laymen according to a family and city.

So it just lists names of people, regular people, but then the second category in Ezra is very more important, detailed. It names all of those who are associated with the temple priests, Levites singers, all of the people who are [00:26:00] associated with the temple. Now, each of these classes of people, their temple ants and their relatively small in numbered.

Now what's important for us to understand is that when it's writing about these groups of people, he has them in the scriptures and he's saying, here are the people who are going to help rebuild the temple, but here are the special people who can only help work on the temple. Exactly. Like touching all the things in the temple.

So there were families who thought, well, we wanna go help build the temple even though we don't have permission to do it. We're just gonna join up. Well, their names are listed in scripture and the Lord did not deal kindly with them. He's like, no, you, I didn't ask you to come. You're actually causing more harm than good.

We don't need your help. So we have an Old Testament account of this, and now here it is, ind and Covenants and the Lord's just saying. I'm a God of order. Do not get ahead of me. There's a reason why we're doing these things. There's a really great quote about this storyline in Ezra. It's by Professor Kent p Jackson.

And Becky, can you please read this for us? Because it connects us to this idea that they're not supposed to keep a genealogy. And in fact, in verse five it says, don't put their name in the book of the Law of God. Or in verse nine, it says, in the Book of Remembrance, it's the same kind of thing about names of the saints who were asked to go, especially in Old Testament time, those who went into the Promised Land.

We have a story about Joshua writing their names in the book of the Law of God. And so we have this book where names are kept of people who are going to keep the law of consecration. But here in Section 85, the Lord's like people. I didn't ask to come. Don't keep a record of them. And here's what Kent Jackson had to say about the people in the book of Ezra and their genealogy.

Related to the general category of Temple Ance is a group of individuals who claim to be priesthood holders and thus eligible to participate in temple rights, but whose genealogy could not be certified. This group is discussed here in the Genealogical Register because of the danger they posed in possibly [00:28:00] contaminating the temple and desecrating its prescribed rites.

We are reminded that the Lord's kingdom is one of order and that all things associated with God's temples are to be done with exactness and preity. Thus uncertified priests of Abel's Day were forbidden to partake of the most holy things, special portions of food reserved for the male descendants of Aaron.

Thank you. So here we have this quote, and now we're going back to the Saints and we're reminded that these people were uncertified, they were forbidden to partake of Zion in Missouri. They weren't asked to go. And so we're not gonna keep a record of their genealogy or anything like that. So let's look at this though, in light of today.

Tell me how this storyline connects to all of us. I loved what Shauna said about staying in your lane. Also harsh, but I, I just think we need to be okay with what the Lord has given us at the time. So often we just go off on some wackadoodle way, and I mean, I'm just talking about like, I don't know, anytime anybody thinks that they know more than the apostles or more than.

Jesus Christ, or you know, that is just scary. That's scary that that is going outside and, and it's gonna make, it's gonna make your life really lousy with that thought pattern. And so I think it's better to just be thoughtful about the calling that you have, the situation that you're in. How do you make that better?

Rather than going off and saying, oh, I need to be big and giant and bad. And I mean, that's what all of, all of [00:30:00] the scriptures, you know, like when I think about so many of the scriptures, they talk about the people that, you know, thought that they wanted more or thought that they needed more, you know, whatever.

And I mean, I'm all about manifesting goodness in your life, but at the same time, notice what you already have and make that better. Yeah. And I like what you said, Becky, you said, um, he is a god of order, but most of the time people are, if they are kind of getting ahead of the brethren or they're, you know, not staying in their lane.

It is, it does start from a good place. They want to be helpful. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, but unfortunately sometimes that can be really not helpful. And so we, it's, it's good to be just cognizant of the fact that all knowledge is partial knowledge. Yes. And you're probably, you're probably acting with partial knowledge as a little example of this.

I don't know, do you guys know what an HOA is? Homeowners association. Oh, my husband's the president of ours. The kind of get, okay. Well, I just have been on the board of directors in mine for the last year. I had no idea what I was getting into, but I, I, um, am an empty nester Now. My, my youngest is on a mission and I thought, okay, I'm just gonna sign up to be a volunteer.

Well, the next thing I know, I'm on the board of directors with these four other people in my HOA and the front letters, our, that's how it always start, Shauna. Yeah. But the front letters gonna volunteer pretty soon. You, the president. It's, it's true. Mm-hmm. Um, my neighborhood is about 25 years old and the front letters of our front wall, that name, our name, our neighborhood started falling off just normal wear and tear and, um.

[00:32:00] It looked kind of ghetto for a while, whatever, but um, we were actively working on it. We had to get quotes for it and mm-hmm. And there's a process involved and we're working with the management company and it's just not a real quick fix. But some of the people went on our, our, our neighborhood Facebook group, uh, group, and they just bore us apart that we weren't getting the job done fast enough.

And, you know, we kind have a policy that we really don't go on there to def defend ourselves, but behind the scenes we work like 10, 20 hours some weeks to free, just total, voluntarily. Um, we're doing the best we can. We really, honestly are. And that was just a real eye-opening experience for me. That. I think probably whether we're talking about local leadership or where we're talking about people in Salt Lake, like I think we're just always acting with partial knowledge.

One of the things that people didn't know is that our liaison with the management company had been out on maternity, we leave for several weeks, and so there was a little bit of a bottleneck there and that that's something everybody wants for her, but it just kind of slowed the process down and I just think the best, the best.

We should look for the most benevolent explanation, and we should really try to just realize that we're probably only have partial knowledge and just trust in who our Hemly parents have put in charge. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I do too. I wrote that in my scriptures. All knowledge is partial knowledge.

Tammy Uzelac Hall needed that information. 'cause I'm gonna tell you right now, I'm more section 85 than I wanna admit. Okay? Now listen, I'm not, I'm not moving my family to Missouri. I'm not doing that. But I can't tell you how many times I think, oh my gosh, I could do that so much [00:34:00] better. Or oh my gosh, if this person would just do this this way, it would be so much easier.

My husband and I always joke like, you know, if people could just be more like us, this li the world would be such a better place. Like think the way I think use the brain I have, you know, and I do that. And I love that you just said, well, all knowledge is only partial knowledge. It's so true. I don't have.

All the information. You're so right, Shauna, are you a therapist? Wow. That was good. But, but I also think, you know, part of part of our purpose of mortality is to grow and to learn. And sometimes you're just watching somebody grow and learn, and maybe you could do it better, who knows. Mm-hmm. You know, that, that may be the case sometimes, but we're here to learn and grow, and that's how people learn and grow.

Most of the time, it's through trial and error. It's making mistakes. Oh, yeah. And also, I wanna add into that, Shauna, because I love that sometimes you're just watching someone grow and learn. Sometimes we're just watching ourself grow and learn. Right? Yes. I, I mean, I love that. Yes. We're just, we're just watching ourselves grow and learn and watching everybody else, and let's give ourselves all a break and, mm-hmm.

You know. I like that Farley. In fact, section 85 we could probably title it the Grow and Learn section because that's what's going on is we're watching people in the early days of the church grow and learn and then we get to learn because of this history that was kept. Mm-hmm. Well, and, and I wanna point out in verse six where it says the still small voice, which whisper it through times, it makeif my bones to quake.

While it makeif manifests saying yes, because you know, you might, you might wanna go, you might wanna go and say to somebody, you know, you could do this different, but how much more will they be affected by it? And will it really have staying power for them if we allow the Holy Ghost to be the one to tell them [00:36:00] that they might wanna do this different, or that they might have some course correction here, like they're gonna value that source so much more.

Then coming from Sister Argyle. Does that make sense? You're absolutely. Oh yes. Yeah. Absolute truth. Wow, that was good. In fact, because you ended with that verse then this is gonna be so fun. We're gonna talk about that verse in its fullness in the next segment.

Segment 4

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So

we ended with a verse in section 85 verse six that Shauna read to us. And so let's read it again. And then I have a question for these two women. Shauna, will you read that for us one more time? Sure. Yay. Thus say it, the still small voice, which whisper it through and pierce with all things. And oftentimes it maketh my bones to quake while it maketh manifest saying.

Now we'll get into what it was saying in a minute. Let's just talk about verse six and the Holy Ghost. And I ask these two women to tell me, starting with you. Becky, talk to me about the word still in the line of work. Why is the Holy Ghost called still? Small voice. Okay. Um, so in my line of work, I, I do a ton of meditation and a lot of self-compassion.

And to me, stillness equates balance. Mm-hmm. That's what it's all about. So when I often spend time in meditating, I'm finding balance. And the balance that I'm finding is to listen and find my emotions and find what my thoughts are because if we're just, like I said earlier, in section one or in, um, in our first segment, when we're in that trance.

We don't know what our thoughts are, we don't know what our emotions are, and we tend [00:38:00] to follow something that's false because not all of your listen to me real closely, ladies, not all of your thoughts are true. And we wanna be able to find which ones are true and emotions come and go, right? That often we get caught in whatever emotion it is that we're in and we don't know how to get out of it.

And if we don't allow that stillness to come in, we just stay in that trance of that untrue thought or that emotion that really could have moved along if we would've allowed it. If we would've just allowed it to move along, acknowledged it. I mean, we spend so much time in our life pushing things away that we don't, that are uncomfortable.

We don't like the way it feels. We don't like, you know, the thoughts that it comes with. And instead we just need to allow it to come and go. And to me, that's what stillness is. It's sitting with what is allowing it to come and go, and finding that balance. Because if you think about water, this is one of my best thoughts.

If, if you have water when it's still, you can see through it, right? Mm-hmm. If you're on a lake and you look down, you can see the fish swimming, you can see whatever. But if it's, if the wind is, you know, going and there's a storm and whatever, you cannot see the water. And that's the same with our brains.

If we can still our minds down and allow them. To, to just be there. We can actually see what the true thought is, what the true, you know, emotion is, is so often those big emotion, those little emotions like offense and, and, and even anxiety are caused by the, the bigger emotions that primary, the fear, the sadness or whatever.

And if we can get to that [00:40:00] deeper emotion, then we can care for it. Mm-hmm. So stillness to me is all about learning to care for yourself. Hmm. I like that. That was good. Yeah. Um, I don't really know that I have a lot to add to that. I just know that, uh, it makes sense to me that the voice of God and the voice of the spirit would have to be really different from all the other voices that it's competing against.

Mm-hmm. You know, so you can find like, so it's distinctive. You can, you cannot get it confused with other voices. And I feel like all the other voices are very loud. Yeah. Um, sometimes even fearful. And I just know from my own ex experience with the spirit that it is still, it is small. Sometimes it's just a thought.

Sometimes it's actual words that have come to me. Um, sometimes it will help me remember something that I needed to remember, but it is usually, it, it's associated for me with a great deal of peace and calm. And so that's very different from voices that I hear anywhere else. Mm-hmm. Which are usually loud, aggressive, sometimes voices fearful, anxiety ridden voices, angsty, but the still small voice.

It always feels calm and peaceful to me. And that's more how I recognize it, is the feeling associated with it. I can recognize that that's from the spirit and that I love that Shauna, because that goes along with what I said at the beginning with dwelling in your heart. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it does. That those other voices are invading.

They're almost [00:42:00] more invading into your mind, but that whole But the Holy Ghost, yeah. It comes in quiet and it dwells. I think maybe that's where I got that from. Mm-hmm. Well, tell me in what sense is the Holy Ghost still and small, like why would it be called a still small? I mean, look at each word I, the wording that they use in verse six, really, I'm going through looking at this.

We have a still, it's small. It whispers then it pierce it. 'cause Pierce isn't. Pea, it seems harsh. Make it my bones to quake. Um, sum up some of these words for me and thoughts you have on it. The word that sticks out to me is pierce it. Yeah. And of course I immediately go to my ears being pierced, but a piercing, it's small.

Mm-hmm. But it's, it's, it's noticeable and almost to the point of, I don't wanna say painful, of course it's painful to get your ears pierced, but boy do you wake up to it, but it's small and you wake up. I like how you said noticeable. Yeah. Yeah. Wake up to it. That's good. Hmm. I like that. I guess I could probably answer that best with just a personal experience 'cause I can't really find the words, um, any other way, but one time, um.

I had a really good experience with this 'cause it was, it was amidst a lot of chaos and a lot of concern and fear was associated with the situation. But my daughter, um, was four and she'd been sick and I'd kept her home. And, um, then she started feeling better a couple days later and she went out in the backyard to play in the sandbox and then woke up the next morning and it seemed like she had like regressed again where she was [00:44:00] even sicker than she ever was before.

And I remember giving her a little bath and getting her dressed for the day and then kind of thinking, well, you know, we'll just go about our errands. But slowly over time, I had a very strong prompting call and get her into the doctor now. And I will never, ever be able to deny that the Holy Ghost is very real because I'm gonna tell you I am not a mom that.

Goes to the doctor for every little thing, you know? And so I, I was like, okay. So I called and I was able to get her in within a few hours that over those next two or three hours while we waited to get in to go see that doctor. I saw my little girl slowly. It really did feel like she was dying right before my eyes.

She didn't even have the strength to sit up. Um, we were at the grocery store and I had her sitting in the cart and she could barely even sit up, right? And I started feeling so anxious and afraid, and I really felt like this, this little girl is dying right before my eyes. And I, I will never forget sitting in the waiting room and saying a little prayer.

I'm like, father, something is really wrong and I need to be sure and explain everything that I've seen over the last few days very clearly, so that the doctor doesn't just write me off. And I had a thought, you should have him check her head to toe. Isn't that just very specific? Yeah, you should have him check her head to toe.

And so I'm still feeling very angsty about it, but as I go in, I said, Dr. Algo, I know this is gonna sound really odd, but I want you to check Reagan head to toe. And he, he said, okay. So we pulled off her little black stretchy pants she was wearing, and there was a red, it looked like somebody had taken a red marker and they had marked all the way up her leg from a [00:46:00] little bitty sore on her ankle all the way up to about the middle of her thigh.

And if you'll remember, I said I'd given her bath that morning. It was not there that morning. But what it was, was, uh, an infection that had developed, I they think from the sandbox that she played in, and her, her, um, you know, her immune system was already compromised. And so she had, uh. An infection, like a staph infection.

And he was so worried about it that it was moving so fast. And so he said to me in that moment, don't even go home. I'm gonna call and we're gonna put her in the hospital and we're gonna give her IV antibiotics because I'm a little concerned that this could be a resistant strain to antibiotics 'cause it's moving so fast.

But he looked at me and he's not a member of my church or anything, but he looked at me and he said, I would have never ever taken her pants off if you hadn't told me to check her head to toe. Because all of her other symptoms just presented kind of like a typical flu bug, you know? Mm-hmm. And he said, I will ne, but I will never question a mother's intuition.

That's what he called it. But I know and you guys know Wow, that it was so much more than that. Wow. It was, honestly, it was the Holy Ghost. And the beauty of that situation was everyone was really concerned that this infection was gonna take her leg or take her life because it was moving so fast. But here's where I hear the still small voice part too.

Mm-hmm. As soon as we got to the hospital, and I of course called my husband and told him what was going on, and he was gonna go get the other kids and meet us at the hospital. But while we were just in the waiting room at the hospital before we even got in the room and talk to the doctor there that was gonna admit her and everything, the Holy Ghost very clearly communicated to me she's gonna be okay, because you did exactly what you were told to do.

And when my husband [00:48:00] got there, he was just like so afraid and he, he was concerned that I was so calm and I was able to say to him. No, she's gonna be fine. She's gonna respond. I just, I, he's like, how do you know that? The doctor doesn't even know that. And I was just like, I just feel it. And it pierced me.

Mm-hmm. It pierced me through all the angst and the concern. It was like, your daughter is gonna be fine. You did exactly what you needed. And I'm just so grateful that I, I will never, ever be able to deny the existence of the Holy Ghost. I've had so many personal experiences where I've been pierced by it, and I'm great.

I'm grateful that I'm a journaler because I've written them down. And so my children will be able to remember those long after I'm gone. And that now 23-year-old daughter will recognize how the Holy Ghost intervened in preserving her life. Um, so that's my best explanation. So if that makes sense, Shauna, that was beautiful.

Wow. I mean, your story. I love that. How incredible that the Holy Ghost, like Becky said, it helped you to wake up. It was noticeable when it pierced you on what to do. Oh my goodness. And then your whole story. Here's what I love about it too, is you just bore a beautiful testimony of the power of the Holy Ghost and the goodness of God, which is what this is all about, is that Heavenly Father makes everything work out even when you don't think it possibly could.

Like your husband was so worried, how is this gonna work out? But the spirit's like, no, it's going to work out. And it's interesting that in Section 85, we'll just end with this because yes, while Saints are coming there and it's a financial drain on the church and it's really hard and God is a God of order and he's teaching us this message, I love how he just interjects verses six and seven.

'cause he is [00:50:00] like, but by the way, and then he teaches us about the Holy Ghost. But then we had Shauna end when it says. Which Maketh manifest saying. And then let's see what the Holy Ghost says to us. And we're just gonna read part of verse seven. Becky, can you read that for us? Yeah. And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God will send one mighty and strong holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words, while his bells shall be a fountain of truth to set in order the house of God.

Thank you. That verse is talking about Jesus Christ. And so it's all gonna work out like the Holy Ghost is going to help you get through whatever it is you're going through. And yes, it's chaos in Missouri and it's okay. Because God's got it and his savior, Jesus Christ is going to help out. And so I just, I love that he interjects that like, I'm still in charge, even though everybody else thinks they are.

So, right. Still, still a little bit like that, right? Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna let everybody grow and learn. We're a new church. Yeah. We're gonna, we're we're just gonna watch ourselves and watch everybody else grow and learn. Exactly. And we'll learn from everyone's experiences. So write them down. This whole thing has come perfectly full circle.

Shauna and Becky, thank you for sharing. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Okay, so that's section 85. So then in the next section we have a repeat parable that we kind of set up in the very first segment, and Shauna's gonna teach it to us, and I can't wait to learn about it. We'll do that in the next segment.

Segment 5

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So I have a picture to show you before Shauna goes for this because go to our show notes so you can see this picture. In this picture. There are two things growing together and I wanna see if you can tell the difference between the two things. Oh, tell the yet [00:52:00] listeners what you can see. Becky, when you said, oh, it just looks the same, you can, it does not look like two different things.

It looks like wheat. One thing, it looks like a just a bunch of wheat. Mm-hmm. Just a field of green wheat. Isn't it beautiful? It is so beautiful. Go look at this picture. It's a good one to show if you're gonna teach this, show this because there are, in fact, two things growing together in this picture. Now, Shauna said she loves this parable so much.

In fact, in a text, she even said, I am passionate about the wheat and tars. And so I said, great, it's you. I want you to teach it to us. Help us understand it. We're going to mark verse one, and then I'm gonna turn it over to Shauna. Here we go. Becky, will you read verse one for us in section 86? Verily, thus say it the Lord unto you, my servants concerning the parable of the wheat and of the tears.

Okay, now Shauna, teach us about the parable. Okay, well this, I really am passionate about this particular parable because I really, why? Well, okay, so Tammy and I have the same calling right now. Mm-hmm. She teaches an adult religion class in her area during the day, and I do as well. And a couple years ago it was.

One of my favorite things we've ever done. We just, for the whole year, all we did was study the parables. And so honestly I loved it. But the wheat and the terrace parable, I feel like there's so much application to us today. Mm-hmm. And I think it's really interesting. In the previous segment, Tammy, you reminded us how God is a God of order and that sometimes, you know, we think we we're being helpful, but we're actually not being helpful and how important it is for us to sort of stay in our lane.

Mm-hmm. I guess those were my words, but that's kind of what the wheat and the tears is about as well. Because in this parable, um, and I'm gonna read verses six and seven, he's basically saying, [00:54:00] make sure you know which part is your job and which part is my job because we are called to gather, that is our charge.

It is his job to sift, okay? Mm-hmm. That is something he reserves for himself and there's wisdom in that. And it says in verse six, but the Lord sayeth unto them, pluck not up the tears while the blade is yet tender. Verily your faith is weak, lest you destroy the wheat also, therefore, let the wheat and the tears grow together until the harvest is fully rip.

Then you shall first gather out the wheat from among the tears and after the gathering of the wheat, behold and load, the tears are bound in bundles and the field remaineth to be burned. And I think it's significant in Matthew when this parable is told. The tears are actually gathered first, but Joseph Smith makes a change here in the doctrine and covenants.

Did you guys notice that? No. This is so cool. He reverses the order. In this account, the wheat is collected first. Why would that be significant? Well, I like that he's gathering his, like he, yeah, he's coming down to take those who have kept the rules and obeyed the commandments. It, it's kind of reminds me of that resurrection, that the rapture almost in the image I have in my mind is that idea, which I always say to everyone knows that I made fun of that on my mission until I found out we believed it.

So in section 88 that when the savior comes, those who are righteous will be lifted up off the earth with him. And so I, I imagine that's what it like and the wicked will be left, but you have to be pretty wicked to be left. That's the interesting thing. Yeah. Yeah. You do. Yeah. So there's a lot of wheat.

There is. There is a lot of wheat. There's basically four principles that I pull from the story of the parable of the wheat and tars that I think are [00:56:00] just so important. And I'm just gonna say as a therapist and most of my clients are LDS, I feel like I have a lot of moms, 'cause I only work with females that are coming in, they are so worried that their children are not wheat.

Wow. And I love to pull this, this parable out and, and study it with them and pull out some principles. And some of the principles that I like are, number one, we all have both wheat and terrace. Mm-hmm. We all have moments when we're wheat and we have moments when we're terrace. Mm-hmm. We're not living up to our potential.

Okay. It's just part of mortality. Number two. You, what he's trying to say here is you cannot tell which one is wheat and which one is terrace. So don't even try, don't even try to do that because that is something he reserves for himself. Oh, that's so cool. And he, he, he even does that after he waits for a period.

Mm-hmm. When it's, you know, you talked about how he's a god of order. There is a very specific time that it is appropriate to harvest the wheat and then harvest the tears. And it seems to me like part of the messaging here is he's giving the terrors a little bit more time. Wow. And I love that. I do too.

Oh, we're gonna keep watching and watching him grow and learn. Yes, yes. And, um, he's saying, don't I? Don't be so impatient. Just wait. Eternity is a long time. You know, and I, this week I have really felt like this week in particular, just probably because I was [00:58:00] thinking a lot about Lou Terrace, I feel like I've heard a lot of stories of people who, someone somewhere was assuming they were one of the tears.

Mm-hmm. And I've been surprised to hear this week that they absolutely were wheat. I actually. Have a very dear friend that I've known for over 30 years who has a son that went on a mission and came home and just really started wrestling with some, you know, different aspects of the church. And next thing you know, he not only has left the church, but he'd become very antagonistic.

And I'm gonna guess it was probably 10, maybe 15 years ago. And he got to the point, this is a very, a very intelligent young man, um, where he was developing even a website to try to educate people about. anti-Mormon things that were out there and he was devoting like a lot of his free time to that. And um, it was heartbreaking to her because the church is something that she loves so much, but yet she also loves her son, right?

But just going through this process and trying to figure out a way to navigate a healthy relationship with him, but really not loving some of the ways, some of the things that he was doing. But this very week I heard that, um,

he's trying to find a way to come back to church and it came on very slowly and I think that a lot of the traction there has probably been from her dedication to preserving a relationship with him that was completely based on love. And I just. I've actually heard of two or three different situations this week where that [01:00:00] has been the case.

And so that is part of why I am passionate about the parable of the wheat and the terrace. We're acting on partial knowledge again, folks. Yes. Not all knowledge. I love that. All knowledge is partial, right? Yep. Yeah. Oh, but it's not helpful. It's not very helpful to judge whether something is we or tears, because he already told us you can't tell the difference.

Right? Just like that picture you showed and we're trying, we think we're being helpful, but we're not. Mm-hmm. So we should just not even do it. We should just assume the best in people and assume in his plan that he has a plan for them. So now I've, my, my brain is just swirling Shauna. Yeah. I am so happy you're passionate about this.

Yeah. I've never done a deep dive into this parable before the way you have. So thank you for paying the price. So let's just read verses two and three. 'cause I have some thoughts and I wanna know what you guys think. So in section 86, still verses two and three, because as you were talking I noticed something.

So, Shauna, will you read two and three for us? Sure. Behold, verily I say the field was the world and the apostles were the sowers of the seed. And after they have fallen asleep, the great persecutor of the church, the apostate, the whore, even Babylon, that maketh all nations to drink of her cup. And whose hearts the enemy, even Satan, Seth Terrain.

Behold he, so if the tears wherefore the tears choke the wheat and drive the church into the wilderness. Okay. I'm struck on this idea that Satan sow with the tears because it seems like God is the one who has the right to sow us, right? To work with us, to plant us in the part of the vineyard where we live and where we serve.

And so then I thought, well, Satan doesn't have any power. He doesn't have that ability to plant any of us, so what are the tears that he's [01:02:00] planting? And then I thought, I wonder if it, 'cause we've talked about how those who followed Satan were cast down to this earth. And so he has the ability and the right to sow that into the the vineyard for sure.

So he's sowing his own minions in and those tears are gonna choke the wheat. 'cause then I thought maybe the reality is, is everybody's wheat. And there are times when Satan's minions, yes. His tears do choke us out and do like, like you, the story you shared. Thankfully though, no one's gonna be choked unto death until Jesus comes again.

And until we're hitting judgment. That's right. End of the millennium. Like, I've never had this aha before, but I, that might be what it is. I think everyone's wheat and then Satan puts his tears into the 'cause. He, that's what he can sow, is his own minions. And boy, have we seen a major choking recently. Oh my gosh.

It's really true because it just goes with what Shauna said. Just give it time. I love that you made it time sensitive. Mm-hmm. Like it's not lost. I think 'cause I, my whole life I've always said, oh well, and the tears are the people who are stupid. The tears are the people who are sinning. But you can't change a tear into wheat.

Right. That's not possible. That's right. That's right. So this para wouldn't make sense if tears were people who are wicked. It only makes sense if everyone's wheat, but then Satan's tactics choke us. Yeah. Can I just, I like that. Yeah, that's what I was, that, I mean, that's so true. We're all wheat. What if the tears are like all of those rotten thoughts?

Ooh, yeah. That come into our mind like, oh, you're so stupid. You have no right to be doing this. Or, or who do you think you are? Or whatever. What if it wasn't necessarily a person, but like you said, tam a tactic. Mm-hmm. A thought. A, A what? Whatever. And that, that's why they have to grow together, because we learned from all of those [01:04:00] hard, negative.

Emotions and hard negative situations. We learn so much about ourselves, about how we are wheat, when we allow our suffering mm-hmm. To help us to become more like God, then I feel like that might be a tear. Becky. I love that. And as you say that, and thinking about my friend, the mom of that young man and, and the 10 or 15 years that she's been going through this and there has, that is part of the wisdom of having the wheat and the tears grow together.

She has grown so much in her experience with this son that she loves so deeply, but I've even seen, just as I've had, I feel like I've had a front row seat watching her become this. Really loving, compassionate mother. Her love for him, him, his is not as transactional as maybe it was when, when it all, when he was on his mission, it was, it's more just this really pure, unconditional love where she's just there, it's just saturated in benevolence and, and, and, and just charity to be honest.

Yeah. And so that's the wisdom of us growing with the tears is it, it gives us, you know, we talk about opposition in all things. It's good for us to have some opposition because it forces us to be stretched and tried and to grow. Yes. Oh my gosh. 'cause I'm sitting here thinking, listen, if God was truly the best farmer ever, a farmer's gonna do everything he can to make sure tears don't grow among the wheat, because that's just a lot of extra effort then on God's part.

But don't you love that God and his wisdom is like, no, I'm gonna let the tear. I'm gonna let it happen. You have to grow with tears. It gives you agency. It's the only way you're gonna grow. 'cause it would've been, again, that was Satan's plan. Take away [01:06:00] agency. Nobody has to go through any tears. Nobody has to be choked.

No one's gonna have to have any heartache or sorrow. And the Lord's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. We want tears in the wheat. I'm gonna let Satan soak his tears so that all of you down there can gain experience and growth. And then I love what you taught us. We like you cannot, everything you taught us, Shauna is so great.

And Becky, your addition to all of that is so profound now because I do, I think everyone is wheat. And the tears. Ugh. In the end, then they will be bound and they are going to be burned. We know that. Yeah. Oh, thank you ladies. That was probably one of the best discussions on wheat and tears I've ever participated in.

And now I wanna just study the parables, Sean. And maybe that might be the next thing we do in my institute class. Just the parables. I'll do it. Just the terribles. Do it. Do it. And then I, you know, we did women in scriptures this year. Yes. Oh, that's awesome. That was really fun to do that. Next year. Next year, we're doing Jesus of Christ.

Oh, well sign me up. That's one of the best. That'll take years to get through. Oh, I'm so proud of you, Shauna. So proud of you. Okay, so that is section 87. Now this is a fun one because in the next segment we are gonna talk about the Christmas revelation. That's right. You heard me. Joseph Smith received a Christmas day revelation and no one could have predicted this.

Well, except for Joseph. 'cause he was a prophet and he did predict it. It's pretty cool. We'll show you what he predicted in the next segment.

Segment 6

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Uh, all right. You two, what's your favorite Christmas song? Anything? Carrie Underwood sings on her Christmas album, but I especially love, uh, silent Night. Oh, that's a good one. Um, you know, if I'm talking about Carol, that I really love Harp, the Harold Angels sing. Mm-hmm. But I really like that one. Um, about Mary.

Oh my [01:08:00] gosh, I can't remember the name of it. Oh, breath of Heaven. I really like Breath of Heaven. Oh, when I change my answer Uhhuh. When I change my answer. I love Breath of Heaven too. That's, that's one my favorites. I do too. I love that one. I'll tell you what, I don't like Christmas shoes. No, thank you.

That's a very depressing song in our house 'cause about the mom who dies of cancer and. Buys our new pair of shoes. No thanks. That sounds like an awful Christmas song. I know. Who wrote that. Sorry. If you're listening and you're related to someone who did, it's not a good Christmas song. Oof. I think we can all agree.

Okay. Well I want you to think about Christmas. 'cause you guys we're only four months away from Christmas. Can you believe that? 20 more weekends and it will be Christmas. It's going to come so fast. And I'm sure none of us are even ready. We never really are. Who are we kidding? But this is fascinating. Go to section 87 and highlight when the revelation was received.

Can you guys see that date? Mm-hmm. There it is. December 25th, 1832. Okay. Now this is interesting on Christmas Day, I wonder if Emma was like, can you just come be with us at the tree? Can you just like, I don't know what was going on. I'm just making that up. But it is interesting. He's gonna receive a very specific revelation on December 25th, 1832.

And so the history, Shauna, go ahead and read the section heading so we understand what's going on and what the conflict is in America at this time. Revelation and prophecy on war. Given through Joseph Smith, the prophet at or near Kirtland, Ohio, December 25th, 1832. At this time, disputes in the United States over slavery and South Carolina's.

Nullification of federal tariffs were prevalent. Joseph Smith's history states that appearances of troubles among the nations were becoming more visible to the prophet than they had previously been since the church began her journey out of the wilderness. Thank you. Now be I asked Becky to come prepared to read this.

This is from the Come Follow Me lesson this week. Becky, can you read what it has to say about this revelation? Christmas Day is usually a time [01:10:00] to ponder messages like peace on earth. But on December 25th, 1832, Joseph Smith's mind was occupied with the threat of war. The state of South Carolina in the United States had justified the government and was preparing for battle.

The Lord revealed that this was only the beginning war he declared will be poured out upon all nations. It seemed like this prophecy would be fulfilled very soon, but then it wasn't. Within a few weeks, South Carolina and the United States government reached a compromise and war was averted. Prophecy, however, is not always fulfilled at the time or in the way that we expect.

Nearly 30 years later, long after Joseph Smith was martyred, South Carolina rebelled and Civil War followed today. War throughout the world continues to cause the Earth to mourn. The value of this revelation is less in predicting when calamity will come and more in teaching. What to do when it comes. The council is the same in 18 31, 18 61, and 2025.

Stand ye in holy places and be not moved. Thank you. So let's mark the prophecy on war in verses one and two. Highlight that and you can put next to the verses one and two. Civil War broke out April 12th, 1861 and it lasted until 1865. And here are the two verses on the war. Shauna, will you please read verses one and two, barely.

Thus sayeth the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls. And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations beginning at this place. Verses three and four are [01:12:00] specific in what will be the cause of the war.

Becky Reed, verses three and four. Or behold, the southern states shall be divided against the northern states, and the southern states will call on other nations, even the Nation of Great Britain as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations in order to defend themselves against other nations.

And then war shall be poured out upon all nations and it shall come to pass. After many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war. Thank you. So there's the prediction of the Civil War and it did happen, but it wouldn't happen for about 30 years more after the revelation was given.

But I love the Come Follow Me manual writeup about this that Becky just read because it doesn't matter if we're in 18 32, 18 61, or 2025, the message is the same, which is in verse eight. And so I'm gonna read that. Wherefore, stand ye in holy places and be not moved. Until the day of the Lord come for behold, it cometh quickly, sayeth the Lord.

Amen. So I asked my guest to talk to us about this idea, and I wanted to know why do you think the Lord ended this revelation on war with verse eight, with that council? Uh, what is this to us and how do we do this? I think it's interesting, this wording. So talk to me about your thoughts. Well, I'm just gonna say he ended it because like, it just seems like this whole episode has been so much, I'm gonna go back to that wheat and tears, right?

That, that we are always gonna have calamity, we're always gonna have all of these things going on, these tears that are growing in our life, whatever that is. And I think when you are, when God asks us to stand. How does he say it? Stand in holy places and be not moved. Mm-hmm. [01:14:00] If I'm thinking about, um, I'll give you an example of when I practice yoga.

Okay? So I practice old lady yoga, which I love. And I, when I am doing some of the, the positions that I do, I have to look straight on something. Like, I'll look out the window and I'll look at a piece of sky, or I'll look at a leaf, or I'll look at a, whatever it is, I, or just a spot on my wall. And if I keep my gaze right there, I can get into that position, whatever it is, and have complete balance.

And if I take my, my eye off of that spot, whatever it is, the leaf, the flower, the, the cloud, the whatever, I'm gonna fall over because my eyes moved away. And I think that that's how it is with this. And that's why I think he ended it with that. Because there, we don't know what, I mean, they didn't know when war was gonna come, but boy, they could have gotten caught up with the fear of the prophecy.

Like we could get caught up with the fear of the prophecy of the last days. We could get caught up with a lot of fear and, and fall over, you know, metaphorically fall over in our life. But instead, if we keep our eye on the savior and we know that he's got our back, you know, just like Shauna was talking about in her story with her little girl, she knew that he had her back and that it was gonna be okay.

And then we're able to stand wherever we're at and not be moved, even if the wind is blowing and the war is coming and the everything is falling apart, but our eye is single to the glory of God. That's what I think that means. Just staying straight on standing and being not moved and, and keeping your eyes direct.

And then it doesn't matter what happens, you're still gonna stand strong even [01:16:00] if everything around you is falling apart. Wow. I like that. I love the connection to yoga. Old lady yoga tam. Use the right direct, the old lady yoga. Sure. But you've said that when you helped us do yoga, you're like, find a spot on the wall, find something you can focus on.

It's gonna help you. And I remember the first time you told me to do that, I was like, it's not gonna help. But I did it anyway and I'll be darned. Hey, it helped. You really can stand. Yeah. Stronger and longer. When you're focused on one thing versus everything going on around you. Well, and one other thought with this, it reminds me of, um, a metaphor that Stephen r Covey wrote in a book about, and maybe you guys remember this, about a wagon wheel.

And if we make the hub of the wheel, Jesus Christ, then the wheel can turn. But if Jesus Christ is only one of the spokes, then everything falls apart. Like if we make the hub our work or, or our family or you know, our yoga practice or, or whatever, then everything falls apart. But if that hub of the wheel is Jesus Christ and we have yoga and we have our family, and we have our work and you know, whatever, all of our spoke, then boy, everything can turn at that point.

Mm-hmm. Because that center is Jesus Christ. So when we are watching the spot, our eyes single to Jesus Christ, and when our hub is Jesus Christ. Life works. No matter if there is war in yourself or in with your family or really in the world, we can be assured that we can stand and, and have, have peace.

Because war could be a spoke, but Christ is the center. Oh, I like that. I do too. Yes, yes. 'cause if Christ is the center, all the spokes, you're gonna have thousands of spokes. Doesn't matter. It can still revolve around the savior and it, and work and function. All that's good. I like that. [01:18:00] I'm a visual learner and I can actually visualize that.

That's really good, Becky. Yeah, same with me. Um, I think for me, when I was, I'm a convert to the church and when I first, you know, became familiar with this idea of standing in holy places and being not moved probably as a youth, I always used to think of it like trying to be places where the spirit was like at the temple or at church, or you know, who, who I.

Spent most of my time with whatever, but I feel like, um, the older I get, the more I feel like it's an invitation to invite, to get creative and find ways to invite Christ to be in all the places you are. You know, I don't, we only get to go to church two hours a week and I can't necessarily be at the temple every week, but every single day I am, I can invite the spirit to attend me in my home, even when I'm doing dishes and, you know, even when I'm driving into my counseling office and that I can create a holy place.

Mm-hmm. Um, the be not moved part, that one's hard for me because I think generally speaking. We're gonna make mistakes and we probably are to a certain extent, we're gonna be moved a little bit. Mm-hmm. I think what's more important is that we recognize it and we try to step right back on that spot where we wanna be through repentance.

Oh, I like that. So don't be discouraged if you're moved a little bit. Don't be discouraged. Well, and I think that maybe the definition of moved could be more where is your heart? Like yeah, maybe. Maybe you make some, well, what am I saying? Maybe, [01:20:00] of course we make mistakes. All of us make mistakes. But where is your heart and where is your desire?

You know, it goes back to that thing, Tam, that you always say or desires to be. Like, what, what is that? Oh. Mm-hmm. Or seek it. So to do Yeah, yeah, yeah. Seek it. So to do that scripture, like Yeah. Yeah. Those to keep the commandments and those who seek it. So to do like, yes. Seek, you're trying, so to do mm-hmm.

Trying. I love that because you said that Shauna, that you know everybody's heart. Like we're all, I mean, gosh, how many really evil people are there in the world? You know? Two, I don't know. Mm-hmm. Like, there's just not, like everybody comes from a place of wanting to help, and our hearts are in that place, and I think that that's what I see as being not mute, because gosh, I'm just a mess almost a hundred percent of the time, but I'll tell you what, my heart's in a good place most of the time.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sometimes I'm mad about something, but most of the time my heart is in a, is really in a good place. And if I keep that in a spot of, I feel like that's not being moved. Well, and I think you're right Becky, and I think, hasn't President Nelson done such a good job of teaching that, that the Lord loves effort?

Yeah. Yep. And I like how you included Shauna to get back if you have moved to get back. And, and going back to the wheat and terrace analogy, I loved what we've discovered with that because it makes me think of my husband loves to garden, and one of years he decided to do his own starts. And so you start them growing in your home, and then when they start to come up a little bit from the dirt, then you have to start putting 'em outside in the sun so they can get acclimated to that.

And then you have to bring them in from the sun at night and then put 'em back out in the day so they can keep growing in the sun. And I just, it, it reminded me of a time when it, it, he put the plants out in the sun and one of our daughters was used to seeing them in the garage. And so she moved them back into the garage and he was like, [01:22:00] what did you do?

And she was like, well, I thought you wanted me to move them into the garage. And he's like, no, they have to be in the sun. And it just makes me think about how sometimes maybe we kind of get to a point where we don't need the sun. And maybe we do kind of get think, oh no, I'm doing good on my own. And we may be inadvertently move ourselves into the shade when the reality is, is yes, everyone's a budding, growing piece of wheat.

Yeah. And everybody in their life is gonna learn. The sun is always better. The SUN and the SONI love it. Oh, it's gonna help us grow. And so if you find that you've moved yourself back into the shade, it's okay. Just get back in this, it's okay because you can always save. That's what I loved about watching my husband garden.

You can always save a struggling plant. There's so many things you can do to help it to grow and thrive. And I think that's what our father does with us, just helps us to grow and thrive and be the best piece of wheat possible. So I love that, Tam. Thank you ladies. I like that too. What a fun discussion today.

Oh my gosh. I've loved it. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Okay, so just now gather your thoughts and what is an eternal truth you learned? What's something that you were like, oh, that's right from it? Well. Just one word and it came outta Becky's mouth. And it's just this whole idea of where's my gaze? Mm. I, I wanna think about that this week.

Just who am I gazing at and am I gazing at the right things? And I think that's, that was really a profound thing that you said there about how we can feel that stillness if we will be gazing at our savior. Good. So good. I love that. Well, mine came from you, Shauna, and it was just the we and the tears. I loved that so much.

I'm just gonna be thinking about that, that it's not our job to pull the tears out. Mm-hmm. And that there's something to learn from them. Whether the tears [01:24:00] are, you know, actual people, which I don't know anymore. Like, I'm thinking that the tears that we are all wheat, gosh, we are just all wheat. And I wish that, I wish that everyone listening to this and everyone in the world would know that they are wheat.

They are on God's side. Their hearts are in a good place. They're wanting to help, and that the tears are just all the negative shame and, and hard things that come around. And if we just wait it out, we're gonna learn something real good from it. If we allow it to be there and not try to shove it away or ignore it or whatever, we're gonna learn something from whatever that is, not get caught up in it.

Know that, know that Jesus is gonna take that tear out. Mm-hmm. We gotta take that tear out. Not our job. It's not our job. We just let Jesus take care of that and we can keep growing. Watch and learn ourselves. Learn, watch. What did we say? Learn and watch ourselves. Learn and grow ourselves. Learn and grow and watch others learn and grow and not get caught up with it because it's not our job to tear it out.

That's right. We can't tell. We can't tell the difference. Yeah. Yep. Nope. I really like you, Shauna. Dang it. Wish you lived in Salt Lake. I like you. I wanna come like I've been gonna lunch with you in two seconds. I'm gonna be there next weekend and I wanna, I would love to do yoga with you, Paula. Shana.

We'll meet you. We'll meet you anywhere. That'd be so fun. Love it. Oh, okay. I loved when Shauna said All knowledge is partial knowledge. Oh, that was so good. I might need to put that on vinyl lettering in my bedroom to remind me. Yes. I really think I always know and I don't, I only have partial knowledge.

That was good. And then I love how we, I've retitled section 85, the Grow and Learn section. Like, yes, everyone's growing and [01:26:00] learning. They're, we're all trying to figure it out. Everybody wants to be important and the Lord's like, even if, you know what, even if you mess up, I, I still got it. I'm still in charge.

So yeah, that was fun discussion. So thanks ladies. That was so good. Yeah. You guys are awesome. You are so awesome. Both of you. Oh, I love you guys. God is good. God is good. Yeah, he is. Well, what was your eternal truth that you learned? What's something that has just stuck with you from this discussion? Go join our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram to share what you have learned.

And then you can even ask questions on Facebook that is so much fun. And then at the end of the week on a Saturday, we will post a question from this discussion, comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday and go there anyway, because it's where we have links to all the references and a transcript of this whole discussion.

So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's written in, hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our incredible study group participants were Shauna Argyle and Becky Farley. And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday.

Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week, and please remember that you are God's favorite.