The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

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Segment 1

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As I was reading and studying for this week's discussion of doctrine and covenants sections 94 through 97, I noticed a pattern of twos. For instance, in these four sections, there are two Zions. There are two houses. Two temples, two Chastisements, two times that the Lord calls us his friends and two sisters to help me discuss it all.

Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living where we take the come Follow Me lesson for the week, and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, follow the link in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come Follow Me study, just like my longtime listening friend, Kate Stoker and her wildly fabulous curly hair.

Hi Kate. Now another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's a little bit different each week and today is different and new. I'm so excited to introduce you to Rochelle Parker and Lisa Nelson. Hi ladies. Hi. Hi darling. Tammy. Okay. I did say in the beginning you guys were sisters, but you're not just sisters.

What kind of sisters are you? Well, we're two, we're identical twins. They are, I'm looking right now at these mirror images of women. They are identical and they're beautiful and fabulous. Oh my gosh. Okay, so any fun stories about each other growing up together? Oh my gosh. It, having Lisa's my twin has been the best gift that God ever gave me.

He knew that we were going to need each other throughout this whole existence, right? Mm-hmm. And so it's just been, it's just been heaven. She's outside of my children, my husband, she's my everything. Couldn't live on life without her. Could not. Oh, and we're the longest relationship we've ever had. Yeah.

We've been good. Yeah. We're, we're 54 years in. That's right. That's true. And in love with each other. You're committed. Yeah, true. You were so awesome. That's, oh my gosh. Well, [00:02:00] Rochelle and I met years ago, like so long ago, and we have a mutual friend. She told me about you, and then I met you and we made the connection that we have that mutual friend Lindsay.

Hola. Shout out to Lindsay. Yeah. And so we've been friends for so many years, and then all of a sudden I'm like, you're gonna be on the podcast. I said that to both of you and you. I love Lisa's response. Like, what? Yeah, and absolutely no way. Yeah. Yeah. There's no way that that will happen. Thank you though, for the offer.

That means a lot. I just knew you'd be great guests. And listen, I like, I can't even express the goodness that I feel when I'm around them because one of them alone is so good, but two of them together. Double the goodness. Double the fun. You're double midt twins. There you go. Oh, double the pleasure. That is the biggest thank.

Thank you. You so much. You're the, you're just the best. Oh, well we're gonna have a good time. And, and so yes, if you guys wanna know what they look like, 'cause you're gonna want to, I mean, just fabulous. Check out their bios. You can see pictures and read the bios about them in our show notes, which are gonna be at lds living.com/sunday on Monday.

So everybody grab your scriptures and let's dig in to doctrine and covenant sections 94 through 97. Okay. You two tell me what did the Holy Ghost teach you when you were studying these four sections? Okay. What he taught me, once again, as with the Holy Ghost, he taught me to expect the unexpected. Okay?

Because when we said yes to this podcast, I thought, okay, this is great, Lisa, and I love the gospel of Jesus Christ. We have been studying this our entire lives, okay? We get on the phone every day with our other sister, and we talk about what we've learned and feel, and it's very exciting to us. Okay, so I thought this will be great.

This will be a review of these sections. I'm gonna go back. I'm gonna be to read about the characters. I'm in love with the saints. I'm in love with their hardships. I'm in, love their sacrifices. It's going to be a really great review. What I didn't expect is that in my review and the life of the Saints as [00:04:00] they were building Zion, the Holy Ghost transitioned that into a full review of my life as I redeemed Zion.

I, I didn't expect that. And, um, so that was really powerful and I'm really, is there anything specific that stood out to you from your life? Like, gimme an example. I'll give you an example. When I read the doctrine in covenants, I usually read it as sort of a spectator of history, okay? Mm-hmm. I, I am like, the whole time I'm like.

Oh my gosh. When they have a win, I'm over the moon. When Emma actually gets a house and a place to lay her head, I'm like, hallelujah. Right? And in the same token, I'm like, when they are going through hardship, I'm just dying with them. So as a spectator, I'm like, oh my gosh, those poor, poor people, I cannot believe what they're going through again.

Okay, Emma has to leave again. How many times can she clean Tara off the bo body of her husband? Mm-hmm. Right? How in the world is Mary Whitmer gonna feed all those people? She doesn't even have washing machines. You know? So this whole time I'm like, they're just amazing. They're amazing. I cannot believe all their sacrifice and this sideline is I need to do a little bit.

I should probably do a little bit better. I could probably sacrifice a little bit more, right? Mm-hmm. But this time, what the Holy Ghost did for me, and it was so, um, beautiful, is he said This time, Rochelle, as you reread these scriptures, I want you, I need you actually to liken these scriptures unto yourself.

Hmm. And that's Gospel 1 0 1, right? Yeah. I mean, if's telling us to do that for years, but this time he meant it. And I, and I did it and it changed me. And the other caveat he gave me was, when you read about the life of these saints, he said, I want you to remember that they have accomplished their mission.

They have their eternal [00:06:00] reward. Emma is with all of those babies, right? She's reunited with her husband and they are safe in the arms of the Lord. Now I want you to think about you. You know, where are your focus? Are you as dedicated? Where is your sacrifice? How are you doing on the obedience? It, it, um, really became truly this beautiful, um, opportunity for self-reflection for me that really has redirected.

My focus and my life, and that is what the Holy Ghost did for me. And the scripture that really kept me going on this so that I could, you know, accept all these things that I was learning is in section 95, in its verse one and the, it says, verily, thus sayeth the Lord unto whom, unto you, whom I love and whom I love.

I also chasen that their sins may be forgiven for, with the chastisement I prepare a way for their deliverance in all things out of temptation. And I have loved you. So through this experience, I have felt the chastening, but I have felt the love and he's provided a way to redirect me in higher and holy ways.

And I didn't expect that from these four little sections. I did not. I did not. I, I thought it was just going to be a beautiful review of the DNC 94 through 97. So I am really eternally grateful for that. I am too now. Thank you for teaching me that and for having it. I love everything you said where you were like, expect the unexpected, but then it went into this level of self-reflection.

What a great reminder to everybody as we study these sections, how much we can apply them to our lives. So thanks friend. That was fantastic. That was good. All right. Lisa, what about you? Well, when, when I read your invitation to come [00:08:00] on the podcast, I, my heart dropped and I only read that we were covering 94 90 fives, and that's just a few verses.

And I thought, okay, I'm gonna trust this. And I think what the Holy Ghosts taught me is that the Lord doesn't mince words. He's not here for platitudes. He's not here. He's here to instruct us and teach us. And even if I only had a few short verses in 94 and 95, I've got what I need. Um, I guess the overarching theme that I took was how much he loves us.

He's just all in on us. He understands our weaknesses. He, he knows we're probably not going to do what he's asked us to do on the first attempt. Mm-hmm. He's there for us. He just adores us. And he has, he's created, he's actually given us everything that we need to become who we need to be so that we can return to him.

I mean, 94 was patterns and, and then he teaches us why he Chas us. And then ultimately he wants to endow us with power on high so that we can. Experience a multiplicity of blessings. And that phrase, multiplicity of blessings has just gone through my mind. I mean, he wants to give us everything. If we'll just do a few things that he asks us to do, will you share with us the verse that contains multiplicity of blessings?

It's 97 28, and I will bless her with blessings and multiply and multiplicity of blessings upon her and upon her generation's forever and ever. Beautiful. Wow. Isnt that great? That's so great. Okay, so you gave us these four sections, but what I discovered, what the Holy Ghost helped me discover is that every section had this little gem that helped me facilitate this self-reflection.

[00:10:00] Okay. For example, section 94, the question was posed. He's trying to build this beautiful temple and. Create it with a strong foundation and the question. And he said, I want this building to be wholly dedicated to the Lord. And so I thought to myself, am I wholly dedicated to the book in 94 verse seven, he's talking about the physical temple.

But it's an object lesson for ourselves, right. Knowing not that you are the temple of of God. Yeah. And for me it was like, am I wholly dedicated to the Lord or am I just giving a portion of myself? Wow, I did that gra everybody. That's eternal truth coloring right there. I put purple on there. Like that is truth.

Holy dedicated. Yes. I love that. And then in 95, um, he poses the question to the saints, he said, are you choosing to walk in darkness in noonday sun? Mm-hmm. And so I had to ask myself that is a very deliberate at to walk in the darkness when we are flooded with light. Yes. So myself. Where am I pitting my efforts?

Am I, am I soaking in all the light of Christ or am I turning away from the light? That was a huge, um, wow point from me. Okay, let's mark that verse. That's 95 verse 6 9 5 6. Awesome. Okay, and so what is distracting me? Right? What's taking me from the light ladies? That was dynamic. I mean, that's just, listen for two people who were so nervous about being on this podcast, and I just have to say this because my favorite is the text message.

So we texted back and forth and I just, Lisa, can I please read what you wrote in a text? Because. When you said, I mean we came a long way from thinking you only had two sections to study. 'cause then we said that was, read them all. But I just have to tell you this, when she realized that, here's what this text she said, she goes, well, I've pretty much [00:12:00] memorized the dimensions of the building's.

Hi Rem Reynolds and Jared were told to build, so we're ready for your questions. Spoiler. I love how you said spoiler alert. 55 by 65. I know. Listen, you're like, oh, I got more sections to study. Okay. No, she's like, Gelle, where? Where are you getting this stuff? I mean, all is dimensions and I know we'd like to decorate houses, but this is all I've got.

I love so hard when you set that text. Oh my gosh, we're gonna have fun. Well, thank you for sharing what the Holy Ghost taught you. That was wonderful. So in the next segment then, let's just dive into sections 94 through 97, and we're gonna study this pattern of twos and also how we can apply these verses to our life.

Segment 2

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Let's play a pretend game. Let's pretend that this next Sunday you have an appointment with a member of your bishop brick and you're gonna get a brand new calling, and this is what you've been called to the church building committee. What do you automatically assume you're gonna be responsible for?

Cleaning? Not decorating. I'm always a cleaning. Yeah. Every member a janitor. Sure, sure. And you call the wrong people. Yes. This is a mistake, clearly, although you are decorators, so maybe it could be to improve it, put some art up. I like that. Yes. Amateur for our homes only. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Very good. Okay, that's exactly what I thought.

Let's go to this section heading of Doctrine and Covenant, section 94. And Lisa, will you read that for us? Revelation given through Joseph Smith, the prophet at Kirtland, Ohio, August 2nd, 1833. Hiram Smith, Reynolds, CA Cahoon and Jerry Carter are appointed as a church building committee. Okay, so here is what the church building committee meant to them at this time, in 1833, it was to raise money, and I've written this off to the side, next to church building committee, raise money, supervise the construction of church properties in Kirtland, [00:14:00] and specifically to build two buildings.

And here are the two buildings they are told to build. And this is where Lisa comes in. She now knows the DA diameter or the what? The circumferences. I don't even know how to say it. I'm not even a builder. The specs. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. So the first building, here we go. We're gonna read verse one, and then we're gonna go to build the building in verse three, and then the building in verse 10.

So let's start with verse one. And Rochelle, will you read verse one for us? Yes. And again, barely, I say unto you, my friends, a commandment I've given to you that you shall commence a work of laying out and preparing a beginning and a foundation of the city, of the stake of Zion here in the land of Kirtland, beginning at my house.

Thank you. Okay, so there's a couple things about that verse where it says, beginning at my house, the word house means temple. Mm-hmm. So he's saying to these men, okay, the temple's gonna be in the center spot, and then you're going to build outward from there. But the interesting thing is, is when he says to them, I'm giving you a commandment, so this is not an option.

You absolutely have to do this. But the commandment, this was interesting for me to study. I thought the commandment was to start building immediately, but the commandment is to commence the work and to prepare a beginning of the foundation so they're commanded to commence and begin, but not totally. Yet, and we're gonna see where a verse tells us that.

So know that going into this. So we're starting with the temple in the center. And this is fascinating because Joseph is understanding, wait, I thought we were building Zion in Missouri. That's why I sent all those saints. Yeah. So we're doing it here also. Yeah. Here are the buildings they're gonna build.

So Lisa, I'm gonna let you read as you, since you are a building aficionado now. Okay. Will you please read verse three? Here's building number one. And let the first lot on the south be consecrated unto me for the building of a house, for the presidency, for the work of the presidency, and obtaining revelations and for the work of the ministry of the presidency in all things [00:16:00] pertaining to the church and kingdom.

Thank you to the outside of verse three, right? Church administration building. That's what that building is. Church building number one, church admin building. And we have one of those in Salt Lake City and it is down by the temple. Super cool. So church administration building. Then we have building number two.

It's verse 10. Lisa, will you read that for us please? And again, verily I say unto you, the second lot on the south shall be dedicated unto me for the building of the house unto me, for the work of the printing, of the translation of my scriptures and all things whatsoever, I shall command you. Thank you.

Now, here's the slight caveat with that. When we read that the commandment was to commence and begin, verse 16, Rochelle, will you read that for us? Yes. These two houses are not to be built until I given to you a commandment concerning them. Okay? So build them, but not yet. Put that on hold because there's something really important that they first have to do.

And it goes back to verse one. He's talking about a foundation of the city, of the stake of Zion. First we have to build Zion. Now this is big. And Rochelle, I love that you set us up for this because I asked my guests to study Zion as it relates to us today. And we've talked a lot about Zion this year and how important Zion is.

And I'd love to know from your study on Zion, what makes Zion strong? What did you guys find? I think in a word it would be unity. Mm. I love that. Everyone just let's get along. Let's put aside our differences and let's focus on Christ and uh, do what he asked us to do. Yeah, totally. And also here again, he is setting up.

A pattern for us to follow. He has a pattern for everything. He has a pattern for his temple, for learning for everything here. He has given us the pattern, um, to create Zion. And it's the exact same pattern he gave Moses thousands of years ago. It's the same pattern [00:18:00] he gave the Nephites. It's the same pattern he gave the saints of 1833.

And the same for us, and it's found in Moses seven 18. And the Lord called his people Zion because they're of one heart and of one mind and dwelt in righteousness, and there were no poor among them. So to me, that is the pattern of Zion. Okay? The Lord needs us to be both individually and collectively more united, as Lisa said, more holy and more engaged in caring for the poor.

And um, so for me that that's exactly the pattern of creating a Zion and a Zion people. Absolutely. So this is interesting because we have these two Zions one in Kirtland. Well now we have one in Missouri that they're trying to get done, and now we've gotta do this one in Kirtland, and they're about 800 miles apart.

Now the two of you, you do not live together, correct? No. Right. Oregon and Oregon and Utah. So that's about 600 miles, eight hours in the car. Oh gosh. 600. Okay. Oh, that's a good visual. Well, it's too far, I'll tell you that. It's too far. It is too far. So I love this though, because you guys are living in two Zions, and so think about where you live.

What does it look like in your ward, because it's, it must be so different in Oregon versus Utah. What does it look like to be a Zion people where you live? Or have you seen that in your membership in church here? Well, in Oregon, we are just blessed to be in such a solid ward. Everybody comes together, they help each other, they support each other.

Um, and the women are just outstanding. You know, they're just. They're devoted and, and, um, families are strong. I think people move there. We specifically move there because of the ward, because there is unity. They, they really rally around each other and love each other. And we wanted that for our kids and for, wow.

Is there any specific [00:20:00] experience where your award rallied and you were united? Um, I've only been there a year. Well, they've rallied around you. I mean, they took you in like there was no tomorrow. They're just so kind and welcoming and hardworking. Good faithful people. Pleasure to be with them. It's a pleasure to be there.

And they really, um, I mean, they just know each other. Mm-hmm. And they know each other. They love each other. They know each other so well. They know each other's weaknesses and they still love each other. And I love that. And that's Zion. Yes, that's Zion. Yeah. That is such a great definition of Zion though, is to walk into church.

And we've talked about this before where it says visitors welcome. And we had some guests who said, but are we all visitors? Don't we sometimes all feel like when we walk into that building, you know, who are my friends? And wouldn't it be great if you could just walk in and know not only is this, these are my friends, this is my family.

And like how you said, Lisa, they even know your weaknesses and they still love you. Like that is, that's Zion. Wow. That's so cool. Zion, you're right. Yeah. Love it. Anything you wanna add, Rochelle? Well, what, what I've seen recently is my ward, there have been members that have suffered with ill health and then they gather fast.

Yeah. They assemble those teams and people are fasting and there are prayers and there are is there is food and there is love, and they stick with these people from beginning to end. Mm-hmm. Which is so beautiful to me. You know, they are, they're in times of trouble as well as the great times. They really do sacrifice their time, their efforts, and their talents to help each one.

It's been neat to watch. That is neat that you said that because when you talked about how there's a pattern for Zion, isn't this fascinating that almost universally in every ward in the world, there is a pattern for what we do when someone's sick? There's no question about what we do. Okay. Prayer roll, fasting [00:22:00] meals.

All the things and everyone knows how to respond and how to get things done. I mean, that is Zion. Yep. Yes. It's a little army. It's just a little army of righteous people. Yes, it is. And I think it's beautiful because I learned, or when I was young and in the singles ward, I didn't know this until I was like almost 30, but I was shocked to learn when the bishop taught me, he's responsible for everybody in his area, not just members of the church.

And so I was like, wait, I gotta take care of those people too. And he said, yeah, like it doesn't matter if they're members or not, if there's a natural disaster. I have to have an accounting for every single human being that lives in my jurisdiction. And that just blew my mind. I not when she lost, everybody has to be accounted for.

It's beautiful, isn't it? It's so beautiful, and that's the Zion that the savior is trying to build up among the saints. That is what he wants with his people. Because what's blowing my mind here is, let's do this really fast. Go to section 64, verse 21. Look at this. They're in Kirtland, Ohio. This is a revelation to Frederick g Williams about his farm, but what we wanna notice is how much time the Lord says they're going to spend in Kirtland.

Okay? I will not that my servant, Frederick g Williams should sell his farm for I, the Lord will to retain a stronghold in the land of Kirkland for this space of five years in the which I will not overthrow the wicked. That thereby I may save some five years. That's it. Yeah. They're just gonna have enough time to build the temple, serve in it for a little bit, and then they're out of there going to Navu and in Missouri where the other saints are, the extermination order will go out in 1830.

Five years from when these revelations are given, 1839, thereabouts. So I think the thing that is crazy for me is, I don't know, I, I, I love the path of ease. And so in my mind I'm like, five years, we really gotta do all this. If we're just gonna be here five [00:24:00] years, it kind, why don't you just get us to where we need to be?

Why do we have to go to these places where we're gonna have so much heartache and so much sorrow? And again, if the whole goal is Zion, isn't that fascinating? All that they'll go through is what will create this. People who are pure in heart, people who know how to answer when the call comes, how to be united.

Like you said, Lisa, nothing unites people more than heartache. Sorrow, tragedy. It's true. True. And what is so beautiful about that hub of Kirtland is in that five years time, he refined those saints enough in that time. I mean, my goodness, in the Kirtland Temple, Jesus Christ appears the keys are restored by Eliza, Elijah, Elijah and Moses.

I mean, they had these refining and amazing experiences that they were then able to use Kirtland as a hub and send all those missionaries to flood the earth with the gospel and be strong and fortified enough to continue west with the saints. Yeah, I mean, it's not one minute lost in those five years of Kirtland.

It's amazing. Oh, I like that. Not one minute. Lost in the five years in Kirtland. Oh, please. The economy of God. I, I remember learning that long ago. He, he wasted nothing. He. He doesn't waste words, time, experiences, and he really does consecrate everything for our game. Everything. And especially in the creation of a Zion, people and society.

Whoa, hold on. That was so good too. In the economy of God, he wastes nothing thing. Lisa and Rochelle,

thank you. Wow, that was, that was so great. Okay, so we're gonna continue our discussion of Zion, and here's what we wanna do. In the next segment, we're gonna learn about an attitude or a practice that Zion absolutely needs to adopt according to Elder Christofferson. And we're gonna see how it applied to the Saints.

Segment 3

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[00:26:00]

Alright. Did you guys watch the little video clip? Other christopherson? Oh, you know, I thought, listen, this is how I thought I was supposed to memorize that story and tell it, and I am up to here with the, my little, the little gardener. Like, oh, it's the best story ever. I've loved it since I was a kid. Then I went current Rochelle, I don't have to memorize this story.

I, I was supposed to don't. Yeah, it, it saved your life. Such a relief. Okay. You're right. You don't have to retell this story because we're gonna let Elder Christofferson tell it. So for our guests, listen to this clip. It's three minute clip from general conference, and then we'll come back and we're gonna discuss how this clip relates to doctrine and Cabinet section 95.

I would like to speak of one particular attitude and practice we need to adopt. If we're to meet our Heavenly Father's high expectations, it is this willingly to accept and even seek corrections. Miller Hugh B Brown told of purchasing a rundown farm in Canada many years ago as he went about cleaning up and repairing his property, he came across a current bush that had grown over six feet high and was yielding no berries.

So he pruned it back drastically, leaving only small stumps. Then he saw a drop, like a tear on the top of each of these little stumps, as if the current bush were crying and thought he heard it say, how could you do this to me? I was making such wonderful growth, and now you've cut me down. Every plant of the garden will look down on me.

How could you do this to me? I thought you were the gardener here. Look, little Kern Bush. I am the gardener here, and I know what I want you to be. I don't intend you to be a fruit tree or a shade tree. I want you to be a current bush [00:28:00] and someday little Kern bush. When you're laden with fruit, you're gonna say, thank you, Mr.

Gardner, for loving me enough to cut me down. Years later, elder Brown was in line to be promoted to general, but even though he was fully qualified for the promotion, it was denied him because he was a Mormon. Continuing his story, elder Brown remembered I got on the train and started back with a broken heart with bitterness in my soul.

When I got to my tent, I threw my cap on the cot, I clenched my fists, and I shook them in heaven. I said, how could you do this to me? God, I've done everything I could to measure up. How could you do this to me? And then I heard a voice. It was my own voice. And the voice says. I am the gardener here. I know what I want you to do.

The bitterness went out of my soul and I fell on my knees by the cut to ask forgiveness for my ungratefulness. And now almost 50 years later, I look up to God and say, thank you, Mr. Gardner, for cutting me down, for loving me enough to hurt me. All of us can meet God's high expectations. However great or small our capacity and talent may be.

Let us pray for his love inspired correction in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Oh, amen. Huh? Hmm. Okay, let's go to section 95 and we're just going to read verses one and two, and I'm gonna let you do that, Rochelle, since that was the verse you shared with us. Okay verily, thus save the Lord unto you, whom I love and whom I love. I also cha in that their sins may be forgiven. For with the chastisement I prepare a way for their deliverance in all things out of temptation.

And I have loved you. [00:30:00] Therefore, ye must needs to be chastened and stand rebuked before my face. Okay, next to verse two, let's put a cross reference. Put section 1 36 verse 31, and let's turn there. Doctrine and cabinets, 1 36 verse 31. And Lisa, will you read that for us? My people must be tried in all things that they may be prepared to receive.

The glory that I have for them, even the glory of Zion and he that will not bear chastisement is not worthy of my kingdom. Oof. Why'd you react like that? That's a biggie. Well, chastisement is never easy. No. It's not, tell me some of your thoughts as you listened to Elder Kristofferson's talk and connected to this, these verses in section 95 and the Saints and what they're going through, and how does Chastisement create Zion?

There's so many thoughts here. I have always equated chastisement with punishment. Mm-hmm. Like when your husband says, we need to talk, and you're like, oh, this is, this is bad. I've spent too much money. Uh, yeah. I spent too much money. What can I return? Yes. Hurry. Hurry. And so it just, it would fill me with dread.

And then as I was studying, I read that, that that is one, that is one definition of chastisement, but the other was to purify. Mm. I thought on that I'm all in. I, I want to be better. I, I want, I want to stand confidently before him. And I know that I can't do that until. I'm clean and I loved how Elder Christofferson talked about.

Chaning really has three purposes. It's to repent, refine, and redirect. And I need that. I need redirects. I want to be refined, and I'm trying to repent relentlessly so that I can, I can do what he wants me to [00:32:00] do. Yeah. And I heard this little clip from Elder Bednar. Mm-hmm. And he said, people think that repentance and being without sin is the purpose of mortality.

Repeat. People think that repentance and being without sin is the purpose of mortality. It is not. It is to incrementally line upon line, precept upon precept with God's help, through the enabling power of the savior's atonement, to become more like them. Oh, so that changes everything. If we can view that prism as of chastisement, as a purification process to shake off our natural man so that we become more like our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and return to him, we are going to welcome everything.

And I think our questioning when we, you know, when we go through chastisement, our natural man is to say, why, why, why? And I think if we keep that eternal perspective of this is out of love, this is to help us get back to you, then we start saying, okay, holy Father, what is the lesson we need to learn? I wanna be better.

Help me change. That changed everything for me. Yes. Well, especially when you said, why, why, why? That is our are. We are naturally inclined to say, why, why, why? And then when you said what in my brain, I went, what? What? What? Yeah. Like instead of saying why, why, why? Now I'm gonna ask what, what, what? Love that.

What is to, what am I supposed to be learning from this? And you probably aren't gonna ask that while you're being chastised, while you're going through it because it's uncomfortable and it's sad and you wanna cry and have a tantrum and all the things. I mean, if he calls the Xavier calls us his little children sometimes.

We really are. We can't. And I think that's part of the process, right? Yeah. That is part of the evolution of maturing spiritually. Right. Those were gonna go through that. And the beautiful thing is he allows us the time to go through that. It is line, even our chastisement, I've [00:34:00] seen it myself. He lets me start at one point.

Mm-hmm. And then wrap my heads around it. I dry my tears. Then I, he, he sets me on the other line. Here's another line, Rochelle. And then we just keep digging. Deeper. Deeper and deeper. Right? Absolutely. I think that's what these saints, why I'm so in awe of them is man, they accepted their chastisements. They and the rebuking because their eye was on the glory of God.

They thought they were gonna see him just any minute, and that made them the strength to power through everything that they did. Everything that they did. Wow. You're amazing. That is such a great perspective to have because we live in a day and time where we've been hearing that Jesus is coming and he hasn't.

So it's easy for us to go, well, they probably won't come into my lifetime. Can you imagine if we really believe the way the Saints did? You're right. They were called millennialist. They literally believed that Christ was coming tomorrow. Yes. And so they were anxiously engaged in getting it right and so that changes my, that shifts my perspective now.

Yes. Thank you for pointing that out, because I do need to live more like he's coming tomorrow and get it together. Yes. And I mean here I I, this whole thing, this whole time I've been hearing the Tabernacle Choir sing, we thank the, oh God for a prophet because that is what he's doing when he's using the word urge.

I urge you, I plead with you. I'm begging you, you know, in that last, in that last talk, you know, in his confidence, in Jesus, confidence in God. Mm-hmm. Says we do not know the day or the hour of his coming. But I do know that the Lord is prompting me to urge us to get ready for the great and dreadful day.

We're in it. There's no more talking about it. And we're Saturdays warriors. No. We are in this, right? Yes. We are in it for us is for the Saints of 1833, I think. And that's when chastisement, it really can be viewed through the lens of love. Mm-hmm. They are not content to have us wade through mediocrity.

[00:36:00] They just know who we are and they're gonna do whatever it takes. To get us there and to help us to become who we need to become. They, they know they are, oh, they just love us and they're so patient with us. They're so kind. Yeah. I appreciate so much how verse one starts out when the Lord says, I love you, whom I love and whom I love.

Also to Chas in, like it's first out of love. He wants us to know that, listen, I love you and I also love to chase in you. And those two don't often go hand in hand, especially as a little kid. When you get chastened, you don't, at least for me, I hate being chasten. That was the thing for me. Like, spank me, fine, whatever, take away privilege.

I don't care. But if you said to me that you were disappointed in me, forget about it. I'm balling my eyes out. It's the worst thing I could do to my parents was to make them disappointed in me. And so to hear my parents say, listen, I love you and. Maybe I love you and I'm disappointed in you. I don't know how it all work, but for the Lord to say, I love you first and foremost, but this is gonna hurt.

I think that's why I forever now will change it to I am purifying you. I, I love it. It now that I can, do I, yes, I want that. I don't want that dread of you are in trouble again. Right. That just kills me. Well, like Lisa said, we have spent our life being self punishers. Right. We're very good at that. We're really good at that.

You know, and, and, and it is to change that mindset and say, okay, I'm gonna step back. I'm gonna feel the love. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna on and I'm gonna get better. And I think part of that is spiritual. It's it's line upon line, and it's understanding the nature of who God really is. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, you know, I've had to learn that.

I've had to learn that he's not a punishing God. I mean, everything he does is to lift us and, and he wants us to experience joy and and to trust him. And I have to trust by changing it to purify. [00:38:00] This is now coming from a loving heavenly Father. Amen. Oh, I love how you reframe that word, Jason, for us to purify.

And then it goes back to what Elder Christofferson said in the talk when he talked about the storyline. Thank you for loving me enough to cut me down. Or now I'm gonna say, Lisa, thank you for loving me enough to purify me. So yeah, it changes everything. It does. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, so this is interesting because section 95 begins this way, but there's something very specific that the Lord is going to give his little current bushes to help them grow.

We'll find out what that is in the next segment.

Segment 4

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So this is something fun that I learned about Lisa. I was blown away by this is she and her husband owned a, they own a farm in Oregon. So Lisa, tell us what kind of farm, and I wanna, I have a question about all the stuff you grow. Okay. Well, you know, I'm not the farmer, but I am his cheerleader and we grow ornamental trees, beautiful, beautiful trees that are sculptured, topiary, really unique, um, beautiful trees.

Okay. How do you get 'em to grow? Well, it's, it takes a lot of work, actually. And I asked my husband, um, and the first he said was, location, location, location. Really. Our nursery is, is located in the Willamette Valley. It's the heart of Willamette Valley, and that's known for agriculture, primarily because the soil is so beautiful, it's rich in nutrients.

Mm-hmm. It doesn't even have rocks. It's just pure good soil. And so, millions of years ago, it was a melted glacier. It was a lake, and when it left, it just left pure rich soil. Wow. So it's an ideal place to grow trees, and that's why it's, it's an agricultural place for sure. But the growing of a tree, I, their specialty, they're known for their Japanese maples.[00:40:00]

Okay? And these Japanese maples, they start out in a greenhouse. They're propagated, they're grafted in, they're, they're dipped in a little so that their roots grow strong and then they're protected in greenhouses until they're old enough to be taken outside and actually planted in soil. And, and once they're planted, it'll take three to five years for them to grow.

But what I thought was really interesting is that in that five years, they will be hand pruned up to 16 times, and with each pruning, it changes the branch structure so that it becomes, they become stronger and stronger. Um, because all these trees, they grow beautifully in, in Oregon, but. They aren't raised to, they aren't grown to stay in Oregon.

We ship them throughout the United States and through Canada, where it's their harsh climates and snow and ice and heat. And so mm-hmm. By, by pruning them, they're prepared to go out and live in these climates and survive and, and just be really beautiful. But my favorite tree, that's my husband's favorite tree, but my favorite tree, he grows these sculptured topiary trees and they just take.

Um, regular old aba vida, you know, the kind that usually covers chainlink ths and makes hedge. Mm-hmm. And clown jumps over at the rodeo. Yeah. Um, it's just really kind of an ordinary tree, but we have these artists that have been with us for almost 40 years, and they take these ABA vida and they shape them and sculpt them and mold them, and they turn 'em into just really whatever you want them to be.

Um, they just need a clear vision of what you want right now. I know I saw a picture. They're working on one for a rodeo where it's a cowboy on a bucking horse. So they will, they will sculpt these trees and shape them and they cut them back. They prune them back so that then they'll regrow and, and, um, grow into these forms.

So it's a lot of work, but wow. They're beautiful. By the [00:42:00] by they're ready to go. They're gorgeous and healthy and strong. Okay. I wrote down so much of what you said, and my mind is blown with all of the connections to Section 95 and what the Lord has for his little current bushes, because in here it's about location.

So what he's asking them to do, he says, what I have for you is going to help you grow. It's gonna take a lot of work. Um, it's gonna take about three to five years to get done. It really did take that much time for them to get this done, but they were protected, they were able to do it, and what they are going to do right now is going to, it will shape them and sculpt them and mold them into what the Lord needs them to be.

And I thought this was so cool because then also they, he does this and because they're protected and because his hand is in it, what they're going to receive from him will help them survive anywhere. Anywhere. This is so cool. My gosh, that's perfect. That's crazy. I know. So let's find out what the Lord has for them.

Here's the thing he wants them to do. And so we're going to go to section 95 verses we're gonna start with verse three, and then we'll go to a couple of other verses. So let's start with verse three. So Lisa, read that for us. For you have sinned against me, a very grievous sin in that you have not considered the great commandment in all things that I have given unto you concerning the building of mine house.

Now put a cross reference to that. Put section 88 verse 119, doctrine and Covenants eighty eight, one hundred and nineteen. So roughly six months before this revelation was given in section 88 verse 119. Turn there. And Lisa read that for us. The Lord told them to do something in this verse. So go ahead and read that.

Organize yourselves. Prepare every needful thing and establish a house, even a house of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order, A house of God. So next to that verse, right temple. And that's where the Lord is saying, I want you to build a temple.

But they didn't start immediately. So six [00:44:00] months later we get section 95 verse three. And when he says, you have sinned against me, a very grievous sin, and that you have not considered the great commandment in all things that I've given unto you concerning the building of my house. This is where the Lord goes.

No, I was serious. You guys build a temple. Yeah. I wasn't kidding. Six months ago. Let's get busy. I need you to start build a temple here in Kirtland, Ohio. Because I wonder too, if the Saints were like, you mean Missouri? Because that's where Zion is. Yeah. And now the Lord's like, no Zion's here too. In Kirtland, we have two Zions, we have two buildings, we have two houses Now, two temples that I'm gonna have built, the Missouri one won't get started.

But the Kirtland one will, and it's gonna take three to five years. How fun is this? Because we know they're only gonna be there for five years. Yeah. In Kirtland, Ohio. So he's like, I'm not kidding. I need you to build this temple and here's what it's going to do for you. So let's find these, all these fun connections.

Lisa, I love everything you shared with us, because here's what he says about what the temple will do. Let's read verses eight through 13. We'll each take a verse, we'll take a turn, and so we'll go, Rochelle, Lisa, me. Okay. Yay. Verily I say unto you, I gave unto you a commandment that you should build a house in the witch house.

I designed to endow those whom I have chosen with power from on high. For this is the promise of the father unto you. Therefore, I command you to Terry, even as mine apostles at Jerusalem. Nevertheless, my servant sinned. A very grievous sin and contentions arose in the school of the prophets, which was very grievous unto me, sayeth your Lord.

Therefore, I sent them forth to be chastened. Barely. I say unto you, it is my will that you should build a house. If you keep my commandments, you shall have power to build it. If you keep not my commandments, the love of the father shall not continue with you. Therefore, you shall walk in darkness. Now, here is wisdom and the mind of the Lord.

Let the house be built not after the manner of the world, for I give not unto you that you shall live after the manner of the world. And then he tells 'em how they'll build it. In verse 14, I'm gonna tell you how I'm gonna [00:46:00] show you the manner after which you should build it. So he's saying, I'm serious.

Build it and look what all the good things this temple is going to help you survive. What you're about to experience will help you survive. And then he gives some really great things. In verse 16, it almost like verse 16 mimics the verse in section 88 that we read. And you can read that he says. It will be unto me for your sacrament offering, for your preaching, your fasting, your praying, and the offering up of your most holy desires unto me.

Say it the Lord, but how much do we love this other verse that talks about what this building will be? Turn back and look at verse four. And Rochelle, will you please read verse four for us? For the preparation wherewith, I designed to prepare my apostles to prune my vineyard for the last time that I may bring to pass my strange act that I may pour out my spirit upon all flesh.

Okay, highlight strange act. This is so fun. I love this word. So cross reference that with Isaiah chapter 28, verse 21. We're not gonna turn there, but in Isaiah chapter 28, verse 21 is the same wording where Isaiah speaks about a strange act. And if you look up the word strange in Hebrew, the word is noree, and it's spelled N-O-K-R-E-E.

If you wanna write that next to the verse, but here's what it means. It doesn't mean strange, like weird, strange. The word in Hebrew means an unknown, an unfamiliar or foreign act. Oh, I'll think of a temple. Perfect. Right? That's perfect. Everything that Joseph Smith is going to restore back onto the earth that will take place in a temple will be very unfamiliar and unknown to the saints, but it's being restored.

And so when it says right there to bring, to pass my strange act, that I may pour out my spirit upon all flesh. How cool to think that when the temple gets put on the earth, the Lord's spirit is poured out upon all flesh, and that what happens in that temple, it's not [00:48:00] strange, even though it probably seemed too strange at age 19 or 21.

Mm-hmm. But it's just because it was unfamiliar, it was unknown. And once you learn it, then you're like, oh, it's the best kind of caretaking I can imagine from the Lord for his little current verses or his little, uh, Japanese maples. It is so true, and I think because it was a strange act. It was so unknown to the Saints.

That's why they kind of postponed it. They're like, they're like, I'm just gonna get my house in order. We're gonna get our store, we're gonna get the printing press. We're gonna get everything organized and And then we'll do it. Yeah. They did not know all of these amazing things that he was going to end down them with because it was a strange act to them.

But I do love this, Tammy. Once they got it, once they got it, man, it says, this historian said Joseph Smith became obsessed with temples, high ram moms out there with that shovel and he starts digging. They get Yes, they do not let go of people. You're right. Say that again. That is so cool. I love that you just said that.

So she's saying in section 95, as soon as this revelation was received. Immediately rim. There's a great painting with that. Hiram went right out and started digging. He did not waste any time after this revelation was received. And the, hi. I love that the historian said that. Yep. They became obsessed with Temple.

Everything they did was pointed to the temple. And I think, again, we think the, oh God, for a prophet, president Nelson has spent his entire life teaching us about covenants. He's been leading us up line upon line. Yes. Talk about obsession with temples. He's our man. We have over 360 temples, I think, you know, and so anyway, it's exciting.

Okay, so here's what I wanna know from you two then. When it comes to temple attendance and temple observance and all of, and and the strange acts that we should say something unfamiliar, how has the house of the Lord been nourishing to you? How has it helped you as you're growing these little, as you're a little current bush?

Okay. This has been so fun for Lisa and I to watch, because Lisa [00:50:00] has this full circle. Tammy, God, God is in the details moment about, about this section. Okay. Lisa, you have, it's so beautiful. No, it was amazing. Well, it is amazing in that, um, I, I think first of all, I love that it's a strange act. I love that it is new and unfamiliar.

I don't, I don't want to invest in something that is of this world. Oh, I love that. So I, I do too appreciate that it's unique and different. And sacred. And sacred. Yes. Sacred. I, I love that we are doing something that the ancients did. It just, it unites us. It creates a link, but I haven't always felt that way.

I went to the temple, I did understand the importance of covenants and ordinances and um, was so grateful that I could do them in the temple. But when I would hear people say, this is a house of revelation, or I find solace, and I just loved to go to the temple, I did not. Mm-hmm. And I was, I was telling Rochelle, I said there were times when Todd would come in just flying.

It was war temple night. And he would come in racing and we'd be in the car 'cause we are on our way, and we would hit red lights and I just wanted to hit the red lights. I'm like, if we hit all the red lights, we don't have to go. And, and then I, and then I would get in there and I would just be thinking about all the lunches I had to make, or, but then it would, I would swing to, okay.

I remember Hugh Nibley went every Friday and every Friday that he went, he, he learned something new. And so then I would try to focus on that and I just, I wasn't getting anything and. And so I just, I went out of obedience and duty. Mm-hmm. To be honest. And, and then your podcast came on and we started our study of the Doctrine and covenants, and I thought we were in section 88 with Michael Wilcox.

Oh yeah. You were talking a little bit about the temple and you mentioned the School of the Prophets. And I flashed back to when I was a little girl and [00:52:00] I remember learning about the School of the Prophets. I was in my bedroom and I was, I had that holy envy, I just thought I wanna be a part of the School of the Prophets.

I just had this romantic vision of like, revelation just pouring out and they were being taught from on high. I thought, what is better? So I hear you and Michael Wilcox talking about the School of the Prophets, and I start thinking, and, and it was only, um, a little time before that that President Nelson had said.

Make an appointment with the Lord and keep it, but keep it with exactness and mm-hmm. Joy. So I had that in my head. And, and then after I learned about, um, I remembered the School of the prophets and recalled that he spoke again and he talked about, um, if you don't yet love going to the temple, go more often, not less.

Mm-hmm. And then, and then we got to these sections, these very sections that you have us read and study, and it talked about making a sacrifice. For our covenant. And I remember learning about these things, what they were going through in Missouri. I mean, the printing press is destroyed. Build my house, your homes and your stores have been pillaged.

Build my house, the mobs are coming, you're being kicked out. Build my house. And I just thought, what is it? Everything in the doctrine covenants is built my house. What am I missing? My temple. What am I missing? I love the doctrine of Jesus Christ. I love this gospel, but the temple was not clicking for me.

And so right here in these sections, um, I, I thought I need to make a commitment. And I thought, what am I committed to in my life? Well, I am committed to the gospel of Jesus Christ. And. What other commitments do I make? I, I don't miss my hair appointments. I mean, a was pregnant with my fifth kid and we're in a snowstorm and I, my dad is driving me an hour to the hairdresser, get my hair done before I had my baby.

I needed that kind of commitment. You know, I, I, I'm like, I take this seriously. And so I did make a commitment. I told the Lord [00:54:00] that I would go to the temple every single week, and it was tricky because it was during, you know, COVID was ending, so there would only be seven or eight spots, you know? Yeah. And somehow I was able to get in every single week.

Um. And then it just became, it became a sacred place for me, I think because I, I did make a commitment to him and he knew it was something for me, and things just started to change. I started to receive answers. I, president Nelson called, you know, said one of the promises, what that, that we'll have spiritual awakenings and insights that we've never had before.

And I started to get those and they blew me away. I, I just couldn't believe that heavenly father would really talk to me. And I thought, this is why he wanted them to build a house, because he is there. It, it really is this meaning place between heaven and Earth. And he just wants to give us, he, he wants to love us and give us everything.

And give us everything. But it, it, the temple has become, for me, a I'm going home, going home. And so these sections of the doctrine and covenants combined with our wonderful prophet president Nelson, they've gotten me to the temple. The doctrine covenants got me to the temple. And, and I do understand now why he's saying to these people, he, he's watching his children, everything is going wrong.

They're trying to do what is right and it is falling up. It's a mess. Mm-hmm. And he's like, he's just, I know, build my house. But, but these two little girls are trying to save the manuscripts and from the mobs, and they're chasing 'em through the corner. They're gonna kill him. I know. Just build my house.

Mm-hmm. Why? Because he wants us to come home. He knows what he can give us. Only there. Wow. Thank you, Lisa, for sharing that experience. That was. [00:56:00] So just splendid. That's the only word I can think. Just wonderful and everything you shared is, is perfect segue into the next segment because like you said, it was so hard.

I mean, the Saviors talking to the Kirtland Saints by saying, whom I love, I Chas in. Meanwhile, what about the Missouri Saints in Zion and what's going on with them? And that's what blows my mind. So in the next segment we're gonna talk about Missouri and what the Lord has to say to those saints. And Joseph has no idea what's going on.

We'll show you what that is next.

Segment 5

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Ladies. Thank you. I mean the spirit, I felt the spirit so strongly. So when you were sharing that story, your experience with the temple, I think so many of us can relate to how you were feeling. I know I've gone out of obedience. Absolutely. I mean, you hit the nail on the head with that. So thank you for sharing that.

And then you connected it to. The printing press being destroyed and all of things are going on. And so that's, that's Missouri. Let's go to section 97 of the Doctrine and Covenants, because this revelation blows my mind. We wanna look at the date this revelation is received in August, August 2nd, 1833. And so, Rochelle, will you just read for us the the section heading, revelation Given through Joseph Smith, the prophet at Kirtland, Ohio, August 2nd, 1833.

This Revelation deals particularly with the affairs of the Saints in Zion, Jackson County, Missouri. In response to the prophets inquiry of the Lord for information, members of the church in Missouri were, at this time subjected to severe persecution, and on July 23rd, 1833 had been forced to sign an agreement to leave Jackson County.

Okay, here's what you wanna know. First and foremost, Joseph has no idea what's going on in Missouri at all. He has not received a phone call or a text message, or a Zoom call or a Facebook at all, like [00:58:00] he does not know. And so he goes to the Lord and says, what's going on with the saints in Missouri? And here's what's going on at this time.

And the Lord gives him section 97. That is what blew my mind, is he has no idea. So let's just start in section 97. Let's read verse one. Lisa, can you read verse one for us? I send to you my friends. I speak unto you with my voice, even the voice of my spirit that I may show unto you my will, concerning your brethren in the land of Zion, many of whom are truly humble and are seeking diligently to learn wisdom and to find truth.

Okay, highlight that verse. That is exactly what the Lord's telling Joseph Smith about the Saints in Missouri. But let me tell you what's going on with the Saints in Missouri in July of 1833. So just a few weeks prior to him receiving this revelation. Again, he does not know anything. Let me tell you what is happening, and this is crazy.

So here's what you wanna know. Going into this story, and you, Lisa, you hit the nail on the head with the two little girls in the printing press. So we're gonna get to that. So this is crazy. First and foremost, there's about a thousand members of the church in Jackson County, Missouri. That's about 25% of the entire population of Jackson County.

So those who are not members of the church are freaking out because they're like, all of a sudden we have these members of the Church of Jesus Christ, the latter of Saints, or the Mormons as they were called. So all of the people who were in Jackson County, Missouri, that are not members of the church, they got together and they decided we need to get rid of these people.

And they actually, it's almost like they formed the secret combination sort of, and they decided that they need to get the Mormons out of their community. And literally, this is what was said by them, quote, peaceably, if we can forcibly, if we must, unquote, that was their whole direction. So hundreds of these early settlers in Jackson County, there were judges, constables, justice of the Peace.

They all signed a document stating that the mob's illegal agenda for the expulsion of the saints, and that set on July 20th, 1833 as the day that the mob would gather to achieve this purpose and goal. So they all agree [01:00:00] this is what's gonna happen. So on July 20th, sure enough, the mob comes in and the Saints refuse to leave.

And they're told you need to get out and if you don't, we're gonna destroy you. And the Saints are not leaving. They're standing their ground. They're like, we're here. We've gotta build Zion. That's on the forefront of their brains. This is where Zion will be built. So they refuse to leave. And then the result of this is there, there were an estimated 300 to 500 men came upon the Latter Day Saints.

They destroyed the printing office, they destroyed the press. Most of the copies of the Book of Commandments were completely destroyed. And then we have the two cute sisters that you talked about. Lisa, we have Mary and Caroline Rollins. And by the way, if you wanna hear more about them, you guys, their story.

Um, my guest, Jenny Reader, is on unnamed women of the doctrine and covenants, and we spend an entire hour. Yes. Yeah. So if you can find that on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever it's free for everybody to listen to. You'll wanna hear the story about these two sisters, especially you two as twins, we talk about what their life ends up being like, who they marry, where they live, everything.

Yeah. You'll love their story. Love. They actually saved the doctrine covenants, which was so cool. Okay. Demo Mob. They also demolished the brick home of WW Phelps. They ransacked the Gilbert and the Whitney store. They tarred and feathered Bishop Edward Partridge and Charles Allen. I mean, the tar and the feathering alone right there.

Yeah. And that these two men still stayed. True. Is just mind blowing to me. I know. Awful. Okay, so here's all of this stuff that's going on. So finally, after the mobs attacked, the church members did sign an agreement to leave Jackson County by January 1st, 1834. But in the meantime, the Saints in Missouri sent word to Joseph and Kirtland requesting aid and instruction like, what are we supposed to do?

Because we know we have to build Zion. So Oliver Cowdry then leaves, he's the special messenger, and he leaves from Missouri to Kirtland, which is about 800 miles, and he will then get there in August and explain everything to Joseph Smith. But Joseph has already received section 97 of the doctrine in Covenants.[01:02:00]

Incredible. So, so incredible. We have all of this stuff. So I asked you guys to look through section 97 and tell me what verses of scripture could be comforting to the Saints because they'll write the revelation down. Oliver Cowdry will then go back to Missouri and give section 97 to the Saints and say, here's what Joseph, and here's what the Lord had to say to us.

So I love how it starts with verse one. Which is so beautiful because he calls them his friends, which we've learned this year is a covenant keeping word. And how tender. I love how you read it too. You read it so tenderly, that there are many who are humble seeking diligently to learn wisdom and find truth.

I think that is a beautiful way to start that. I mean, and talk about a comfort Tammy. Okay. Because there are so many good saints. I mean, there are a couple who have taken 'em off the rails, but what a compliment. The first thing the Lord says is he compliments these saints. He's like, I see you. Yeah. I see you.

That you are being humble. I see that you're trying, even though things are not as I wanted them, you're still my friends and I love you. Mm-hmm. And I see righteous endeavors. I mean, that would make me just feel hopeful we didn't blow it. Okay. I like that. I'm thinking as a, um, I mean, I. They're like, we are working really diligently to make this happen.

What? This just spiraled so fast. Yeah. And, and we are here to defend Zion. We are. This is what we're doing. And, and how did it just fall apart? Mm-hmm. In such a dangerous scare? It had to be terrifying. Oh, so terrifying. And they're risking their lives. These, I, I just love these little girls, you know? Mm-hmm.

Anyway. Oh, and the idea like, we joined the church. It should be easy. We're doing your work. God, it should be easy. Yeah. Yeah. And we've, they've already put in what, a couple years of work. Yeah. Work. They don't have tractors and trailers and I mean, this is work to create these beautiful little homes and gardens and mm-hmm.

I guess what got me is they are receiving this, [01:04:00] but in the, in the first verse, he's saying, many of whom are truly humble and are seeking diligence to learn wisdom and find truth. Like, is that what it took to be truly humble? Mm-hmm. This kind of destruction in, in a moment. In a moment. All their hard work gone.

Yeah. In verse two, he says, I say unto you, blessed are such for they shall obtain. Amen. And I love that word, obtain because he's saying. I see all the injustices, I see all the hell that you guys are going through. But because of your righteousness, I'm going to extend my mercy and my kindness and I'm going to be completely fair with you and all of you.

Faithful Will Rece will receive or obtain exaltation. Mm-hmm. So I mean, talk about the ultimate comfort, right? Yeah. You're going through all this, hell, you're trying so hard, but um, I see you and you are going to get your reward, which is, and that because you are willing to sacrifice. Yeah. Be humble for your covenant.

Yeah. That's awesome. Awesome connections. Keep going. What other verses would've given them comfort? Here's, here's Lisa's verse five with Parley p Pratt. He's saying, Parley p Pratt, you know, I know all this is on fire, but you are doing such an amazing job, you know, as the director of the School of Zion.

And this is where he said, I will bless you with the multiplicity of blessings that you'll be able to continue to teach these people and prepare these people to go out and be mission missionaries in the world. Just because things are bad here. Hey, I, my plan is still on track. You guys are gonna go out and you guys are gonna kill it.

Let's just get through this. You know, love that. And through all this hardship, he still has compassion and mercy and love the blessings, all of them. Mm-hmm. The blessings were made. That's right. And then, um, or wait, go to 15 I I love 15. And, and as much as my people from the house sent to me in the name of the Lord and do not suffer any unclean to come to my glory shall rest upon it.

My present [01:06:00] shall be there for I will come into it, and all the pure and heart that shall come into it shall see God. Yeah. I mean, what more do you want? There it is. Hello. There it is. And I love the idea of sacrificing for your covenants. They, they were. Yeah. Tell me about that verse, Rochelle, you texted that to me.

Verse eight. Yeah. Talk to me, you two about verse eight. Verily I stand to you. All among them who know their hearts are honest and are broken, and their spirits are contrite and are willing to observe their covenants by sacrifice. Yay. Every sacrifice, which I, the Lord shall command, they are accepted of me.

So all of these beautiful covenants that were given, there's maybe a duality to it, right? I expect you to do the work. Mm-hmm. And that was my question. It's like, how willing am I to, to sacrifice? It's like, okay, I can go to the temple. That's great. It's 20 minutes away. Takes an hour of my time, and I feel like a cheerleader.

But no, the sacrifice comes. When I leave the temple, how am I going to take that information, that knowledge, that inspiration, they've got to go help somebody or to do something really hard, you know, that I'm kind of scared to do. That's the sacrifice, right, of like, okay, now I've gotta go do it. Now I've gotta go be that person.

Do that hard thing. Yeah. You come in, I know what I'm gonna give you, and it's, I'm gonna need you to go out. I'm gonna give you power, and now you're gonna go out and you're gonna share it with everyone. And that, that is what we're supposed to do when we go into that temple. And, and one of the things for me, I think what changed my temple experiences, I went, I approached it like I was going into the school of the prophets.

Yeah. It was my school. What do you have for me today? What are you gonna teach me? What should I be doing? And he told me. But like Rochelle said, now, now it's work time because now [01:08:00] as soon as I leave the temple. It, it's a time of action. Mm-hmm. But I now have the power, I have that enabling power. I have the covenant power to help me accomplish what he has asked me to do.

Well, yeah. And he's promised. Yeah. We'll provide the way over and over in these chapters. I'll provide the way. Just do it. I provide the way. So, well, and I like how you had talked about temple attendance. 'cause it made me think this idea, we've talked about how we grow in our spirituality and you know, for me, attending the temple at the beginning was like being an elementary school child.

I went 'cause I was supposed to go or a junior high high school. I went because that's exactly what expected of me go to the temple. But almost the goal is now to reach a point in our temple attendance where it's like a college class where I'm choosing, I'm, I'm paying the price I want to learn. Teach me everything you can.

Um, that should be it. So I love that idea though. The temple in me, the temple in me becomes the temple for, we maybe like for everybody that we love. That's the point of the temple, so, oh my goodness. That is really, I love that you said that because that reminded me, I, I remember thinking when I first got a, I had such a sacred experience and I thought, wow, this is why he's been trying to get me here.

Yes. And, and my first thought always was, I have been living below my privileges. Uh, but I remember you saying. We grow up in the temple. Yes. We're growing up in the temple and, and, and, yeah. I, I mean, I went, it was out of obedience and that was okay for them. It was. But like you said, we've graduated, we've matured and, and now it has a whole different meaning, which I love.

And, and Elder Christofferson, when he said, he said ultimately that chastening should come from within, we should be self-correcting. Mm-hmm. And it takes a lot of courage and faith. And I find, I find that it's in the temple that I do have that little extra courage to actually ask that, [01:10:00] because that is not a question I like to ask.

No. But in the temple, I feel like, okay, I'm with my Heavenly Father. I'm safe. Ugh. Now tell me. Yeah. Ugh. Now tell me. Yeah. But here's what's so cool about this. And the two of you, as you've been talking, as I go back to this verse, verse one is. The idea that they were humble and seeking diligently to learn wisdom and find truth.

And that's, that's what we're all doing. And that's what you did as you attended the temple. I think we're constantly trying to do that in our lives and I think because the Saints were doing that, they were able to do something so significant. And we'll show you what that is in the next segment.

Segment 6

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So what did the Saints do that was so significant? Here's what they're willing to do. Let's go. We're in section 97, still highlight verses 18 through 28, bracket 'em off, all the good things. And let's just start with verse 18. And Lisa, can you read that for us? And now behold, if Zion do these things, she shall prosper and spread herself and become very glorious, very great and very terrible.

Oh, highlight the varies very glorious, very great, and very terrible. So what I love about the Saints in Missouri is that they stayed to build Zion. That was the only thing they knew they needed to do. That's all they cared about. What about Zion? We can't leave. We can't sign that document. We have to build Zion.

And their only choice was to sign or die. But they, many of them were willing to, I mean, two of them were tarred and feathered. Many people's homes were destroyed, but they just wanted to build Zion. And again, Joseph doesn't know this is going on. So here's the Lord saying to the saints that they're eventually going to read this.

Stay build Zion. I know. That's exactly what I want you to do. Let's read a couple more verses. He has to say to them about Zion. Uh, Rochelle, will you read verse 19? [01:12:00] And the nations of the earth shall honor her and shall say, surely, Zion is a city of our God. And surely Zion cannot fall, neither be moved out of her place.

For God is there and the hand of the Lord is there. And then verse 20, look at this, because this is so cool. I love everything about Zion. Verse 20 says, and he has sworn by the power of his might to be her salvation, and her Hightower highlight Hightower, I love this. Hightower comes from ancient times and in ancient times it was a defensive structure and it was the most secure place in the city wall or in the city itself.

So it was a very secure structure or safest place. So the Lord's like, we're gonna build Zion. It's going to be awesome and wonderful. And then Rochelle, verse 21 that you read for us. Read it again. Therefore verily, thus save the Lord. Let Zion rejoice for this. Is Zion the pure in heart. Therefore, let Zion rejoice while all the wicked shall mourn.

Okay, then, uh, tell me why. Hmm. To be in a high tower. The safest, the safest place no one can harm you. You're protected. It's like the war is over. Yes. And you've been accepted by God. You did it. You did it. Absolutely. Now we'll read two more verses, verse 25 and 28. Lisa, will you do 25 and Rochelle, verse 28.

Nevertheless, Zion shall escape if she observes to do all these things whatsoever. I have commanded her and I will bless her with blessings and multiply a multiplicity of blessings upon her and upon her generations forever and ever. Say it the Lord your God. Amen. Okay. Now the Saints are not gonna be able to build Zion in Missouri, and God knows that.

So he's not necessarily speaking about literally building buildings in Missouri. He's talking about building Zion, a Zion people. [01:14:00] And the thing that I love the most about the Saints, all that they're going through, and here's what the Lord has to say to them. He's teaching them about Zion, is he's telling them to stay.

Now, there's a picture that I love and it's one of one of my favorite things that I've had on my phone, and I've wanted to use it for a very long time in this podcast. Mm-hmm. And I cannot believe of all the episodes I didn't even know. That we were gonna use this picture. It's in Rochelle's house, and I saw it and it took my breath away.

So I put it in our show notes, and you guys can go and look at it, but it's a flag. And the flag says, don't give up the ship. But it's not printed on the flag. It's the letters stitched on the flag. It's an old school flag that says, don't give up the ship. And when I read these verses and thought about these saints, I drew a picture of that flag on this page that says, don't give up the ship.

So Rochelle, tell us the history behind that flag and how we can apply it to these saints who are going to build Zion. Okay. Well, I love that flag too. I fell in love with it and then, and I fell in love with it initially because I thought, okay, this is what I want as a motto for my family. We don't give up.

We fight, fight, fight, and we endure to the end. Okay? And then I, I heard the real story in like this inaugural address. Okay? And so the real story, the real history is it originated in the war of 1812, this naval commander, he was mortally wounded during battle against the British and the Boston Harbor.

And as he laid dying, he told his crew, don't give up the ship. Fight her till she sinks. And from that day on, it's been the rallying cry for the troops of the US Navy. They chanted at every Naval Academy football game at every ceremony. I mean, it's their slogan. And I love that. That made it even more important.

And then Lisa reminded me a while back about Elder Ballard's talk. And he quotes a lot of verses from [01:16:00] Brigham Young and, and, um, Brigham Young would refer to the church of Jesus Christ as the old ship Zion. And I thought, oh, that's even better. That is so cool. Is that cool? I want my family on the old ship, Zion.

That's what's gonna take us home. And so that's why that flag, we've kind of fallen in love with it even more. Oh my goodness. I'm writing down notes. Okay, so tell me then. I mean, I feel like these verses are the Lord saying, don't give up the ship. And it's the saints in Missouri saying, we're not gonna give up the ship, we're gonna stay, which blows my mind all that they went through.

How easy would it have been for them to give up the ship? Right. And just say, I'm done with, this is way more harder than I thought it would be. Membership in this church. Come on. It's gotta be some more simple, that's what they were looking for, was a better way of life, and they didn't get it. So what's your advice to people who are trifling and thinking about giving up the ship?

That's, that's a big one. And Lisa and I have talked about that one a lot. Tell me why. And I think, well, if we're gonna use this metaphor, which I'm not that clever, so I can't keep it up that long, but we're in this huge ocean. We're on the old chip Zion, but we are surrounded by gorgeous yachts in sailboats and all these beautiful things.

And, um, on these yachts and cruise ships, man, the crew's gonna give us everything. They'll do anything we want them to do. They will bring us food at our demand, they will fix our water temperature. They will make life so comfortable and nice, you know, that sometimes we're. Attempted to jump ship, you know, and I, we've just been saying it's like, yeah, but we're jumping ship to the Titanic.

Mm-hmm. It may look beautiful, it may have better food, it'll definitely have better music, but is it [01:18:00] going to take us home? Right. Uh, because we know that that old ship Zion, like Lisa was saying, and she goes, it's battle worn. It's been taking these passengers past the horizon for thousands of years, but it's not, maybe not as pretty, but it's steady and it's strong and it's going to take all of us home.

I, I love the idea of the ship. I love the idea of traveling something in something that will never veer off course. Um, it will never be lost at sea. It will never sink it, it will take us to our destination. And for those that have jumped ship. Heavenly father is so loving and kind that he will send rescue boats.

Mm-hmm. He'll send a million if he has to because he, he wants us to be with him and he has provided every single way, every method, every through every covenant and ordinance, through the prophet, through the scriptures to get us there. And so in the end, we won't give up the ship. Ever. Yeah. Well, and how neat, when you go back to these verses and you think of the context of what you guys have just taught us, especially verse 18, that the ship, it will become very glorious, very great, and very terrible.

I mean, that's the kind of boat I wanna be on. That's the kind of people I wanna be with. Mm-hmm. Yes. Like it's, and I love how you both, how you just said that it's battle worn, it's proven itself, it's not going to sink and that it's going to take us home. That is so cool. And it's going to be the safest place.

It's a defensive structure that's going to help be protective. But then we love verse 21. Why? Because that, that place we're on the, the, I love how it's the old ship. Zion contains the pure in heart. Everyone's welcome. We love everybody on the ship. Going back to what you said, Lisa, about your ward, we even [01:20:00] know their weaknesses and we still love them.

That was so good. That's, that's the ship I wanna be a part of, so, oh my gosh, ladies, thank you. Thank you for sharing that and thank you for thinking through those questions. We're done. That's the end of our discussion. Oh my gosh. What Tammy? I did it. Oh, so good. Okay. Gather your thoughts and I want you to share with us what is an eternal truth that you learned in today's discussion.

I am going first. I'm going first. Okay. Rochelle. I love, love, loved when you talked about how not one minute was lost in the five years of Kirtland that was so prolific. Not one minute was lost in the five years in Kirtland. You're totally right. And then Lisa, I mean, I loved it when you said, in the economy of God, he wastes nothing.

But I also liked how you talked about, I'm going home when you talk about going to the temple. So the spirit was really strong when you were doing that about the temple. That was cool. Mm-hmm. So neat. I guess I, I just love how God does things. I love how four years ago when we studied this, I was still in the obedient stage of going to his house.

Mm-hmm. And that in these last four years, um, by trusting him and making what now seems to be a very small sacrifice for the covenant. Mm-hmm. Um. I can now say that I know that it's a house of Revelation. It's a house of God, and he wants his children there just so that he can awaken in us all that he has.

Just beautiful. The gospel is beautiful, which is why we stay in the ship. Yeah. Amen. I'll amen. That, that was good. I don't. Okay. So this whole purpose, how ha, how the Holy Ghost, like I said in the beginning is to expect the unexpected. Mm-hmm And it's been a testimony to me [01:22:00] that God truly took the time to create a custom curriculum for us to learn and that he has in all things he will teach us line upon line.

He will be patient, he'll give us a little here and a little bit and a little bit here, and a little bit there and tell he gets us. To the end where he accept us, and I'm, I'm grateful that he cares so much about us to custom design this for each one of us to learn and become refined and purified. I'm, I'm writing that down.

Sorry. A customized curriculum. That's good. Rochelle. Oh, phew. Believe it was my idea. Yeah. So was the tumble story. Okay. So good. Oh my word. I love you both. Oh, we love fun. Thank you. Best. Wow. What was your takeaway? What eternal truth did you learn? Go join our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram to share what you have learned, and you can even ask questions, which I love to answer.

Then at the end of the week on a Saturday, we're gonna post a question from this discussion, so comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts because this was such a fun discussion. I loved it. I love those women. Oh my goodness. Okay. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday, and go there anyway, because it's where we have links to the references as well as a transcript of this whole discussion.

So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's written in, hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our fabulous study group participants were Rochelle Parker and Lisa Nelson. You can find more information about my friends at ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday.

Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week and please remember, you really are God's favorite. I.