The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

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Segment 1

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This week we get to study doctrine and covenants, sections 102 through 105. And after studying three of these four sections, you might find yourself asking, well, what was the point of all that? These sections pertain to three major revelations about specific things that the Lord asked the saints to do that didn't end up working out like at all.

So what was the point of all of that? My guest today will help put these sections into perspective, and I have a feeling that we will agree with Brigham Young who when asked what was the point of the useless journey that they took in section 105, he replied all we went for. I would not exchange the experience I gained in that expedition for all the wealth of Gallaga County.

Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the come Follow Me lesson for the week, and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. If you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come Follow Me study.

Just like my longtime listening friend, Pam Hansen from Richfield, Utah. Pam, I loved meeting you. Thank you for saying hello. Now, another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's a little bit different each week. But this week I have one friend and I am so excited to introduce you to this person.

Today we have professor historian Matt Godfrey. Hello Matt. Hi Tammy. How are you? Oh, I'm great. I'm great 'cause you're here. I've been looking so forward to this episode, by the way. I'm excited for it too. Listen, Matt and I met several months ago and he did this awesome presentation at the Church Historians library, which was super cool.

And afterwards I said, Matt, I would really love for you to be on the podcast. I explained the podcast, it's the first time we ever met Poor Matt. He's like, why did I invite this lady to this meeting? And then I said, if all the sections you could talk about what [00:02:00] they, what would they be? And immediately you were like, Zion Camp.

That's what I wanna talk about. I was so excited because I'm like, if a historian knows stuff, he's gonna know stuff about this. And so I cannot wait. How are you feeling about today? Are you overwhelmed yet? Uh, I'm, I'm just ready to go. I, I love talking about Zion Camp. I think it's a wonderful event in our history that's sometimes misunderstood, so I'm grateful to be able to, to be on and talk a little bit about it.

Me too. And you guys, listen, this is kind of fun because Matt has a brand new book. It's currently in stores. I highly recommend it. And here's the book. It's called God Knows You. Getting real about spiritual challenges. I just have to know Matt, tell me how you, why you wrote that book. Oh yeah. Um, there's a few reasons why I wrote it.

I got put into a YSA Bishop Brick in 2020, right in the midst of COVID and just enjoyed my association with the YSA so much and just understood that there were a lot of spiritual challenges that they faced, and they were the same challenges that I had faced as a teenager and as a YSA. And I just thought, you know.

We need to have something that kind of talks about what happens if you feel like God's not answering your prayers or what happens if you feel like you're invisible to God or you're invisible to others. And so this book was a way for me to kind of use my own personal experiences as well as some examples from church history, uh, to try to help people that maybe feel that way.

Um, maybe people who are introverted in the church, uh, which is a hard thing to be, I know because I am an introvert and it's not an easy thing to be in the church. So it's just a way to try to, to help people who may be struggling with, with some things. Oh my goodness. Well, and as you were talking, I thought.

What the title of your book is perfect for the sections we're even going to discuss. I wondered how many of the saints wonder, does God even know us? Is he even taking care of us? Like this [00:04:00] is a, I would say these chapters and last week's discussion are probably some of the most spiritually challenging moments for the Saints in all that they were going through.

It's, it was brutal for them. So yeah, that's that's totally true. And even Joseph Smith had questions about what was going on in Jackson County. Yeah. Um, which I think is, is, you know, really remarkable for me to think about the prophet himself even struggling with, uh, some of these things that are happening.

Because Joseph Smith is in Kirtland, Ohio, and we're dealing today with Saints who are in Jackson County, Missouri. Yeah. So by this time, the Saints had been kicked outta Jackson County and they were in Clay County, Missouri. Okay. And that's about 800 mile. Trek from where Joseph is to the Saints. So it's not a quick little jaunt to go find out how the saints are doing.

And so I think what's fascinating that we learned last week is Joseph Smith was receiving revelation without even knowing what was going on with the saints. Then he is going to get word about what's going on the saints and we're gonna talk about some of those sections today. Is that correct? Yeah, that's right.

Okay. Oh, this is gonna be so good. Now listen, if you wanna know more about my guest, you guys go check out our show notes 'cause you're gonna see his bio and his picture as well as a link to his book. And you're gonna wanna read this and you can find all of that at lds living.com/sunday on Monday. So grab your scriptures and something to mark your scriptures with.

And let's dig in doctrine and covenants. Sections 102 through 105. So Matt, first things first. What did the Holy Ghost teach you as you were studying these sections again? Well, it was, it was really interesting, Tammy, because Sunday I got on Instagram and several of the apostles I've noticed on Sundays will post messages on Instagram.

And so Elder Bednar posted a message on Sunday that talked about the Prayer of Faith. And then I was reading these sections and lo and behold, in Doctrine and Covenant section 1 0 4 verse 80, um, where it's talking about some things that we'll address [00:06:00] later with the United Firm and some debts that the church had.

The Lord says in that verse that he will help the saints get out of debt, um, if they pray to him with the prayer of faith. Mm-hmm. And I thought, you know, that's not really a coincidence. I don't think that we're talking about this section. And Elder Bednar is talking about the prayer of faith. And I love what Elder Bednar said in his message, because he talked about how the Prayer of faith is.

An action thing that you pray and you ask God for help, but then you get up and you do all you can do, uh, to receive that help. Kind of similar to what President Hinkley once said, something like, pray as if everything relied upon God, and then get up and act as if everything relies upon you. Mm-hmm. And so I thought that was a great, great thing that Elder Bednar talked about that touched me as well as I'm reading these sections about how we have to act and we have to do things and even if things don't turn out the way that we think they should or the way that, that we expected, um, it's in the process of acting on the inspiration that we, that we receive acting on the faith that we have in Jesus Christ, that we really grow spiritually.

And I think that was the big thing that, that the Holy Ghost taught me as I read these sections. That is pretty awesome. In fact, let's just read verse 80. 'cause I went there and marked it and it is so powerful. Yeah. So verse 80 says, and in as much as you are diligent and humble and exercise the prayer of faith, behold I will soften the hearts of those to whom you are in debt until I shall send means unto you for your deliverance.

Hmm. And above in verse 78, where it says, behold it is my will that you shall pay all your debts. Yeah. I mean, do these two versus historically, is that sort of like the bedrock for why our church got outta debt and now today is no longer in debt? Like, did that play a role into our financial situation that people often have?

Yeah. Negative [00:08:00] things to say about, talk to me about that. Yeah, I'm, I'm sure this has some impact on that. You know, the church had a long history in the 19th century as they're trying to build up, you know, the different gathering places that they have, whether it's Kirtland, whether it's Missouri, Illinois.

Salt Lake City and the Great Basin as you're trying to build these communities and you don't have a lot of income, uh, you're gonna go into debt to do it. And so for much of the 19th century, uh, the church and church leaders were in debt. And it's not really until the early 19 hundreds under Joseph F.

Smith that the church gets out of debt. Mm-hmm. And at that time, I think Joseph F. Smith said, we're never gonna go back into debt again. And so it's, it's really from that point, with all of the history that that came, including what's happening here, um, in Kirtland, I think that all played into, uh, Joseph F.

Smith really being adamant that the church was not gonna go into debt anymore. That's cool. I did not know that. So thanks for sharing that with me. Yeah, I didn't prep you for that. That's awesome. Okay, well if that's what the spirit taught you, then I cannot wait to find out where this whole discussion is going to go because we've got some sections that are packed with so much goodness.

So in the next segment, Matt is gonna teach us about what is going on in church history at this time that's gonna help us make sense of all of these sections, and we'll start that next.

Segment 2

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Okay. So Matt, when I was reading these sections, I really did have the thought, what was the point of all of that? Because I wonder if the Saints thought that too. Like, come on, we were just asked to do this and this and this. What was the point? And so I want you to give us some historical context for what we can label each section and what's going on with the Saints at this time.

Yeah, so it's interesting because these four sections that we're gonna be talking about today, two of them are related sections, 1 0 3 and 1 0 [00:10:00] 5 that deal with the Zions Camp Expedition, what was known at the time as the Camp of Israel Expedition. Okay. One of them, section 1 0 2 deals with some administrative developments in the church with the organization of the Kirtland High Council.

And then the other Section 1 0 4 deals with economic developments in the church, and especially about the United Firm, which was an organization that was set up in 1832 to kind of regulate the church's publishing and mercantile endeavors. Mm-hmm. And so these sections seem to be really unrelated in some ways.

Um, but they're all very important in this time period. And they're also very important in trying to establish unity as the saints are trying to build up Zion. So I think when you read all four of these sections, even though they don't seem to be related, I think there are some themes that stand out, including that need to develop unity to build Zion.

I think there's things we can learn from this about how important the temple is in building that unity. So yeah, those are some things that, that I think connect these sections together. Yeah, absolutely. And I think what surprised me is I like 1 0 2. And like you said it is when you read em, you're like, what do they have to do with each other?

But when I got to 1 0 3 and 1 0 5, which is Zion's Camp and 1 0 4, I thought, you know, in 1 0 4 the Saints are supposed to do this United order and now they're go, not going to anymore. 1 0 3 is Zion's camp that they're supposed to put together and then they don't end up doing it. And but the idea of even going to Jackson County, Missouri and setting all of that up and then that doesn't end up becoming a place where they ultimately will live and reside and set up camp like they thought that was going to be Zion for them.

And so it must have been so difficult or I don't know, kind of heartbreaking for the Saints. And we're gonna get to that. We're gonna set this up right now, but we're gonna discuss all that in our last segment. But I want our listeners of the podcast to be thinking about that. 'cause maybe there have been times in your life where you thought, what was the [00:12:00] point of all of that?

And I think because God in his goodness has a plan for everybody. There's always a point, right? Yeah. And I also think this kind of teaches us a little bit about our expectations. That sometimes the Lord can tell us to do something and we expect a certain thing to happen. Um mm-hmm Depending on how we're inspired.

And if that doesn't happen, then, then can be hard for us and we can wonder, you know, was I really listening to the spirit or was God really trying to inspire me? Or if is he even trying to direct me in these things? And so I think there's a larger application there too, for just saying we need to keep an eternal perspective on things that happen in our lives and not just expect that things will happen in this way.

And if they don't happen that way, then that means God wasn't with us. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, let's do this in your scriptures. Everyone grab a pen and we're gonna label these sections specific names, and then Matt's gonna teach us about this. So section 102, when I reached out to Matt about this episode.

One of the things he showed me that I thought this was cool, he said there are three different topics of these revelations. Topic number one is section 102, and it's called administrative developments. And so let's just put administrative developments next to 1 0 2 and then 1 0 3. Put a little slash and then put 1 0 5 so you know those two are connected.

And write Zion's camp. And then go to section 104 and to the outside write economic developments. And that's what we're gonna talk about today are these three different topics of revelations that were given to the Saints. So first and foremost, Matt, in Section 102, teach us about the administrative developments.

What is this section trying to teach us? Yeah. Well this is something, I mean, I'm, I'm sure your listeners are just thrilled to be talking about administrative things. 'cause that's, that, that's always so interesting. They're probably just sitting on the edge of their seats. Yes. Tell me [00:14:00] more about this. Um, but this, this really is an, an important thing in the church because I think sometimes we think that when the church was organized in 1830, that we had the same administrative structure as it had today.

So like a first presidency, the quorum of the 12 apostles, the quorum of the 70, and that's not the case. When the church was organized, the only two general officers of the church were Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdry. They were designated as the first and second elder in the church. Then in 1831, you get Edward Partridge, who's called as a bishop in the church.

He's the first bishop to be appointed. At the end of 1831 New K Whitney will be appointed the second bishop in the church. So Edward Partridge is the bishop in Missouri, new K Whitney is the bishop in Ohio. In November of 1831, Joseph Smith receives a revelation. You can read it. Uh, part of it is in section 1 0 7 of the Doctrine and Covenants where it talks about how there needs to be a president of the high priesthood.

And about two months after Joseph received that revelation, he is appointed by a conference to be the president of the high priesthood. And in March of 1832, just a few months after that, Joseph calls two counselors, Jesse Gaze and Sidney Rigdon. And these two counselors, along with Joseph, formed the presidency of the high priesthood or what will eventually become known as the first presidency in the church.

So we don't really get a first presidency until 1832. So two years after the church is formed. Now we still don't have, uh, 12 apostles called in the church. They're not gonna be called until 1835, but what happens in Section 1 0 2 is instrumental in getting the 12 apostles called in 1835. Ooh. Show me why or how.

Okay, so this revelation, section 1 0 2 comes in [00:16:00] February of 1834, and it's an interesting revelation. It's not like the other revelations that we have in the doctrine and covenants because it's basically just minutes of a meeting that Joseph held in Kirtland in February of 1834, where he formed the Kirtland High Council.

Yeah, I noticed that. Tell me about that. Like why are minutes in here? Uh, because I thought everything in here was just a revelation. That's fascinating. Yeah. So one of the interesting things is the original minutes that are kept at this meeting, Joseph actually goes through them and reworks them. Okay. As he's inspired to kind of make them clearer about what he's doing with the organization of the high council.

So he's, he's being inspired to make these changes. It's, it's not like he's just writing down ordinary minutes. Mm-hmm. But he's going through them and through inspiration. He's saying, okay, this is what this means. If, if we do this, and this is how this council is, is supposed to operate. Now, when you think of a high council, this can be confusing to us today because, you know, we have high councils and stakes.

Mm-hmm. And so you think, well, okay, why are they forming a high council? Why, why is it important at this time? The reason why it's important is because the high council that was formed in Kirtland, this very first high council, was supposed to help Joseph Smith and the presidency of the high priesthood in the regulation of the church.

And so you'll notice that in, uh, verse two of section 1 0 2, it says that the high council was appointed by Revelation for the purpose of settling important difficulties, which might arise in the church. And so it becomes this kind of other administrative body that the presidency of the high priesthood can go to, um, to help them administer the church and to help them solve some of the problems that the church has.

So Joseph will form this Kirtland High Council. As it says in section 1 0 2, he'll form another high council in Missouri. [00:18:00] In July of 1834 when he is there, uh, because of the Zions Camp Expedition. Mm-hmm. And these two high councils are called standing high councils, and they're responsible. Oh, that's so cool.

Yeah. They're responsible for governing the church in Kirtland and in Missouri. So then when the 12 apostles are called in February of 1835, they're designated originally as a traveling high council. And you can read that in section 1 0 7 verse 33. You read about the 12 being a traveling high council.

That verse says, the 12 are a traveling presiding high council to officiate in the name of the Lord under the direction of the presidency of the church, agreeable to the institution of heaven, to build up the church and regulate all the affairs of the same in all nations. First unto the Gentiles, and secondly, unto the Jews.

You can read that in section 1 0 7, and if you read section 1 0 7 today and you read about the 12 apostles and it calls 'em a traveling high council, you're like, what in the world does that mean? Like, why are they referred to as a high council? Oh, and it's because when the 12 were first called, they were supposed to regulate the church outside of Kirtland and outside of Missouri.

So all of the branches of the church in the eastern United States elsewhere in Ohio, the 12 were supposed to be the ones to administer the church there. And that's one reason why the 12 were the ones called to open up, uh, the work of the church in England is because they're this traveling high council that has the authority to go and regulate, uh, the church and regulate branches outside of Kirtland and Missouri.

Matt, that's awesome. That is so cool. Okay, so then going back to section 102, was this also my, like, as I read it, my reading led me to think it was also for like church courts and that that's how we use the language today. Is that what it was? Then also, am I right on this? Yeah, yeah, you are. So when it talks about settling important difficulties in the [00:20:00] church, um, what it says in verse two as well, um, it says that they're supposed to settle important difficulties, which might arise in the church, which could not be settled by the church or the Bishop's council to the satisfaction of the parties.

Mm-hmm. And so what that means is that the high council was kind of an an applet counsel. So if you appeared before a bishop's court and you didn't agree with their decision, you could appeal too. Kirtland high council, and then the high council would hear your case according to everything that's, that's outlined there in section 1 0 2, and then make a ruling, uh, on that.

So yeah, it, it does have to do with, with disciplinary councils as well. Wow. And as I understand it, that's how disciplinary, uh, membership councils are still held date, uh, the same structure that's set up here in section 1 0 2. Mm-hmm. That's my understanding as well, even to the particulars of verse 17, that they draw straws, even numbers, odd numbers, like they have a re role and responsibility.

Like, it just kind of blew my mind how cool we still use this today. Yeah. And I love too that the Lord sets this up so that you have, you know, up to six members of the high council who will speak on behalf of the plaintiff, for lack of a better word, and six people who, uh. Are supposed to speak kind of on behalf of the church.

Mm-hmm. And so both sides are represented here. It's not one, a one-sided thing. Um, the Lord I think is trying to set this up to be as fair as possible when, when hearing these cases. Yeah, I agree. Do you think there's any specific reason that Joseph, who is in Kirtland, Ohio, is receiving this revelation about setting up a high council while the Saints in Missouri are struggling?

That's, do you see any reason for I don't know. Yeah, that's, that's a great question. Um, I haven't ever really thought about there being a connection, uh, with that. But I think it is interesting that when you have two people from [00:22:00] Missouri, Parly p Pratt and Lime and White that are sent to Kirtland mm-hmm.

To kind of. Tell Joseph Smith what's been going on in Missouri and tell them, apply to the Saints in Clay County. They appear before the Kirtland High Council because they get there after this revelation's been received. So the Kirtland High Council's only existed for a couple of weeks, and they're already hearing about what's going on in Missouri and supposed to give counsel on what the Saints are supposed to do.

There it is. Oh, I believe that. Right when you said it, Matt, I'm like, that is so cool. That's exactly it, because what they're about to have to do then as Saints is a big task. It's a huge undertaking to get prepared for Zion's camp and for all of that to happen. And so that's amazing to have this many men on a high council to take the responsibility.

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. That's pretty cool. That was cool, Matt. Oh, that is pretty cool. Okay, so that is the administrative developments. And you know what? I'm so glad that I know that now. I can't believe all the stuff that I just learned. That was really fun. So now in the next segment, we're gonna do the next topic, which are the economic developments.

Matt will show us what those are in the next segment.

Segment 3

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Let's go to Doctrine and Covenant, section 104. And we're gonna label this Economic Developments. And Matt told us a little bit about the fact that this is, this is a revelation pertaining to the United Firm or the United Order, is what they're gonna call it. And Matt has so much to say to us, and I think this is really fun.

So, Matt, hit us, teach us about the United Firm, the economic developments. Alright. If I didn't put you to sleep with the administrative developments, you'll certainly go to sleep with the economic developments. So you're selling me, you bet. Yeah. Everybody likes to talk about, uh, economics, right? We do, we do.

So this section is connected with a [00:24:00] few other sections that, that you've already talked about. Mm-hmm. Um, so it's connected with section 78 and section 82, which are the two sections that set up what is known as the United Firm. Now the, this, this gets a little confusing because when these revelations were published, the name of the United firm was changed to United Order and the purpose of the United Firm, they changed the language of that as well in both section 78 and section 82.

We know because, uh, one of the things that, um, we have, we have this revelation book that John Whitmer began in 1831, and it was the official record book of the church. Many of the revelations that were recorded in this record book. These are the earliest copies that we have of these revelations. And so in these early copies that we have in this manuscript revelation book, it has these revelations, uh, seventy eight, eighty two, a hundred and four, with the language in which they were given.

And we've been talk in a few minutes about why the language was changed, but because the language was changed. It gets confusing when you're talking about this. 'cause if, if I'm talking about United Firm and you're looking at these sections, you're like, what are you talking about? There's nothing in there that says United Firm.

Mm-hmm. But whenever it says order, or United Order, it's talking about the United Firm. Okay. So it's set up in May of 1832. The point of it was to regulate the church's publishing endeavors and the church's mercantile endeavors. Okay. So the church sets up a printing office in Independence, Missouri. In 1832, it begins to publish the church's newspaper, which is called The Evening in the Morning Star.

William W. Phelps, who's the printer of the church, also starts to publish Joseph Smith's revelations in a collection that's called The Book of Commandments. Mm-hmm. And he's never able to finish, uh, publishing the Book of Commandments because of the attack on his printing [00:26:00] office in July of 1833, where they, uh, damage the press and they tear down, uh, the printing office.

So William W. Phelps is doing that at the same time. Newell k Whitney, who's the bishop in Ohio, has a store that's used as the church's storehouse. A man named Sidney Gilbert in Missouri sets up a store in Independence that's also known as a storehouse. So these are places they, they sell goods for profit, but they're also supposed to be places where the poor, the church can come and they can get goods, they can get food if, if they need that food.

So you have the publication endeavors, you have these two stores that are set up and the United Firm is set up in 1832 to coordinate those two endeavors. And they thought that the goal was, you know, if William W. Phelps prints the Book of Commandments, they can sell those, they can use the money that they get from the sale of those books mm-hmm.

To purchase more goods for the church's storehouses. Since those stores are selling things for profit, um, they can use the profit on those to help fund the publication of the church's newspaper. So they were, they were all interconnected and so they set up a group of about nine men to kind regulate that, and that's what the United Firm is.

Okay. So I'm looking at section 104, and when you're talking about the money and everything like that, I was really interested to read verses 60 through 74, I think, because in verse 60 it talks about the place for a treasury. So they had a first treasury as they're collecting all the money or that was their goal to collect money.

And then in verse 67, they have another treasury, a second treasury. And so the first treasury was for sacred treasury for publishing scriptures. And then the second treasury was any other money they had coming in, like they had set this up to collect money to help the church stay afloat. Is that correct?

Yeah. The, the only confusing thing with this though is that the Lord's telling them to establish these treasuries and they don't ever establish 'em. [00:28:00] Okay. Um, because what section 1 0 4 is, is is a revelation that disbands the United Firm. Yeah. And so the United firm's been in existence for about two years.

But the problem is because the Saints have been expelled from Jackson County, they don't have the printing office anymore. They don't have Sidney Gilbert's storehouse there, but they're still in debt for the goods that they purchased for the storehouse. They're still in debt for the printing supplies that they purchased, and they don't really have any way of, uh, getting money to pay off those debts.

And so because of the expulsion of the saints from Jackson County, the United Firm falls more and more into debt. Mm-hmm. And this is where it's connected with sections 1 0 3 and 1 0 5 because Joseph Smith's commanded to, uh, lead this group of saints, the Zions Camp Expedition to Missouri. But he's worried that because the United Firm is so in debt that he's not gonna be able to go on the expedition.

Okay. And so the Lord then reveals section 1 0 4, which is a way to kind of resolve what's going on with the church's finances. And he basically says, in this section, we're gonna dissolve the United Firm. All of the assets will be given to individual members of the firm that they're supposed to manage themselves.

And in that way, um, Joseph, we don't think you'll be held accountable for all of the debts of the United Firm. You'll, you'd only be held accountable for your own stewardship. And so that's why it's dissolved. And so Joseph is able to go on the Zions Cap Camp Expedition because of this revelation, because of the dissolution of the United Firm.

Does that make sense at all? Yes, it does. So now they're, he's basically saying, you have this entity, we're gonna get rid of it. I want you to pay. And that's when we get those verses you shared at the very beginning. I want you to pay your debts completely. Get outta debt. Exercise, faith, pray unto me, I'm gonna help you deli [00:30:00] be delivered from this.

So that you can do something even greater or bigger that I need the Saints to do. Wow. That's huge. Yeah. And I, I should mention something else here too, and that is just the importance of Bishop Newell k Whitney, and this whole thing because Bishop Whitney, you know, after the explosion of the Saints from Jackson County, Bishop Whitney in his store, that's the only store that the church has at this time.

And so he's really the only one that has income coming in. Uh, members of the United Firm, when they needed things would come to his store and uh, he would give them food and other things. And so I think he had about, uh, I think $8,000 in debt to different members of the United Firm because they would come, they needed food.

Mm-hmm. He would give that to 'em, and Whitney just forgives the debt. And $8,000 at the time, in 1834 is a lot of money. That he just says, it's okay. I'm not gonna make you pay for these goods that, that you got. And that was a huge help to Joseph Smith as well. So just makes me say, you know, thank heavens for new.

Okay, Whitney, what a stalwart man. He stalwart his entire life after converting to the church and he's just a really key component, um, in, in the early church. Well, this is kind of really neat because as you've taught this to me, it adds even more emphasis to a word that I marked in section 1 0 4. It's in section 1 0 4 verse one, and I've noticed it consistently since section 84 of the doctrine and covenants.

And so in verse one, and we've talked a lot about this on the podcast, Matt, 'cause it's one of my favorite things that I learned as I've been studying Hebrew, but in section 1 0 4 verse one. He starts out by the Lord, starts out by saying, verily I say unto you, my friends. And the word friend in Hebrew is a covenant word.

The Lord doesn't call anyone his friends, unless it's someone he's entered into a covenant with. For instance, Moses. [00:32:00] And then if you go to James chapter two, verse 23, it says that Abraham was called the friend of God. And the Lord doesn't call the saints a friend until you get to section 84, which is oath and covenant of the priesthood.

But then I'm struck because I noticed it so many times in these specific sections. He calls the Saints in Missouri, his friends, he does it in section 97, verse one. And, and you know this. Joseph Smith is in Kirtland, Ohio. He has no idea what's going on with the saints, but he's receiving Revelation section 97 98.

And in both of those sections, verse one, the Lord calls them his friends. My friends, my friends. Then we get to 1 0 4 verse one, my friends, and then 1 0 3 verse one again, verily I say unto you, my friends, and he's speaking to the saints in Jackson County, Missouri. And I just wanted to know, and I don't even have an answer for this, Matt, and I'd love to know your thoughts on this.

What is it about the Lord? What does he want us to know, or what is his intent of calling us his friends when they're in these deepest and darkest of trials instead of like, verily I sand you, my children or my saints or my sons and daughters? Like, what is it about the word friend that he wants us to understand?

Yeah. What, what, what a great question. And I love all the, all the parallels that you've shown here about when the Lord is calling them friends. Um. To me, I think it shows that the Lord's right there with them, that he's not gonna abandon them. Even though to some people it may have seemed like he had abandoned them because they weren't protected from getting expelled from Jackson County.

Right? Yep. Um, and there's a lot of violence that that occurs. And so you could look at, and you could say the Lord wasn't ever there, you know, where, where was he? And I think he's emphasizing with these things. No, I am there. I am your friend. I'm not going to leave you behind. Yeah. And I think, you know, when you think about when Joseph Smith is in Liberty Jail and you read in Section 1 21, 1 22 where the Lord talks to Joseph [00:34:00] Smith about how his friends haven't abandoned him.

Hmm. And I think when you have these sections as kind of a backdrop to this all these times, that the Lord has referred to Joseph Smith and others as his friend. Mm-hmm. I think one of the thing, the things that the Lord is telling Joseph in Liberty jail is I have not abandoned you because I am your friend and I'm still there with you.

I love that Matt, because the Lord actually does call Joseph his friend earlier. I think it's in section 93 or 94 that he calls Joseph his friend. Oh, I think you're totally right. 'cause I just had that thought in my brain. Like when you have your friends, they're your, like your right. They call it ride or die.

My ride or die friend. Like they're gonna be with me through all of it. Like family is there. Sure. But when you have that friend, how comforting it is to know for the Lord to enter into these sections by saying, I saying to you my friends. Yeah. Like I'm with you. I got you. And it makes me go back to that book you wrote.

God knows you. Yeah. Wow. Getting through spiritual challenging times. That is what this is. And here's God saying I'm your friend. Like I'm gonna, I'm gonna help you get through this. 'cause I'm sure the Saints are like, but how are we gonna do it? And you can trust it an all wise God. Absolutely. But when he calls you his friend.

Oh, okay. Yeah. There's a lot of power in that. I think so too. Oh gosh, Matt, that was great. Thank you for teaching us about section 1 0 4. So let's do this then in the next segment, let's go into doctrine and cabinet section 1 0 3 where the Lord speaks to his friends, and these friends were destitute and they needed a lot of help.

Matt's gonna tell us about that next.

Segment 4

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So as part of this segment, it's important for us to remember our discussion from last week because we talked about the horrible treatment of the Saints in Missouri. Well, the governor of Missouri, he made a deal with the Saints that would hopefully put an end to this treatment. So [00:36:00] Parley p Pratt, and Lyman White, as Matt has told us, left the saints in Missouri and traveled almost 800 miles to Ohio to tell the prophet all about it.

So Matt, I want you to tell us what was the deal by the governor? Who was the governor and what's going on? Yeah. Great questions. Um, and, and I'll say this, you know, just like we talked about with the United Firm, it can be kind of confusing trying to figure out what's going on with the Saints and the governor is kind of confusing too.

Uh, we don't have all the records that we'd like to have to be able to have a clear picture of of what's going on, but we can piece some things together. Okay. So Daniel Dunlin is the governor of Missouri at this time. Um, his lieutenant governor is Wilburn w Boggs, who will become governor later and issue the extermination order.

And Boggs is actually, he lives in Jackson County. And so he is, uh. One of the ones who doesn't like the Saints very much. Yeah. But when the saints are kicked outta Jackson County, they start to appeal to the federal government, to the state government in Missouri and to the courts about how they can get their land back and their homes back.

And when they petition, uh, governor Dunlin about this, he doesn't reply to them, but he has one of his, uh, officials reply to the Saints and he tells them, basically, um, he says, okay, there's, there's gonna be a trial of the people who committed violence against the Saints. And I know that your people are kind of nervous about going back to Jackson County to testify in this.

So I'm willing to call it the state militia to guard the people giving testimony into Jackson County. At that time, if they wanted to go back on their lands, you know, the militia could protect them on, on their lands. That sounds nice. Yeah, it sounds, sounds nice. None of the saints take 'em up on the offer because none of them want to go back to Jackson County.

'cause [00:38:00] they're, they're, they're afraid they don't. Okay. You know, they's, they such trauma and such horrific violence there that they don't want to go back. And so nobody takes up the governor on that offer. But what it does is it makes, I think Joseph Smith and other church leaders think that if they bring up an army, uh, for lack of a better word, and it's not really an army, because Zion's camp was never supposed to go on the offensive.

Um, but if they call up a group of men and they march to Missouri, they think that they can ask Governor Dunlin to call out the state militia. The state militia would then escort the Saints back to their land in Jackson County. And then when the state militia had disbanded. Members of Zion's camp would remain in Jackson County to protect the saints from being driven off their lands again.

And so that's really what the purpose of Zion's Camp is. We often think because of language that's in section 1 0 3 and section 1 0 5, we think that the Saints were gonna march into Missouri. They were gonna go into Jackson County, and they were gonna retake their lands by force. Mm-hmm. But that wasn't the plan.

The plan was to go to Missouri, ask Governor Dunlin to call it the state militia, and then, uh, have the members of Zions camp remain to protect the saints from being driven off their lands again. But what happens is that when the Saints get to Missouri, when Zions camp gets to Missouri, they send, uh, Parley p Pratt and Orson Hyde to the governor.

And this is where it gets confusing. We don't really have a great record of what happened in that conversation. Okay. But the end of the conversation was essentially that Governor Duncan was not willing to call up the state militia at that time. Part of that may have been because there were some negotiations going on between people in Jackson County and leaders of the church in Clay County.

And maybe the governor wanted to see how those were gonna play out. But whatever the reason was, he told Parley p Pratt Norsen High that he was not going to call out the state militia. And that kind of [00:40:00] frustrates the entire plan of Zion's camp. 'cause that was the linchpin in it, that the governor was gonna call up, uh, the state militia.

So that's kind of what the governor was planning on doing. We think at least that's what the Saints believed. The, the, the governor had promised them that, that he would do. But then that didn't happen. He didn't call up the state militia. So take me through section 103. Let's go into here and. Read a couple of verses that apply to the scenario that they're in and what the Lord had to say to them before we get to section 105.

Yeah, yeah. There's some great verses in here. You know, just as some background, this comes in February of 1834. It comes after Parley. P Pratt and Lyman White have traveled to Kirtland and they've told Joseph Smith and the Kirtland High Council, we're really struggling in Clay County. We don't ha have enough food, we don't have work.

We've lost all of our land, we've lost our homes. It's cold. We need help. Mm-hmm. And in the meeting where they tell him this, Joseph Smith jumps up and he says, I am going to Missouri to the rescue of my brethren who is going with me. And then we don't know, uh, whether it, the revelation came right after that.

But on the same day that Joseph Smith says this, that he is in this high council meeting, he gets section 1 0 3. Which talks about what has happened to the Saints of Missouri and gives Joseph Smith a way to try to help them. So one of the things that I liked, uh, verse four, in section 1 0 3, it says, and that those who call themselves after my name might be Chassen for a little season with a Soar and grievous chastisement because they did not harken altogether under the Precepts and Commandments, which I gave unto them.

That just seems so harsh. It seems harsh, right? Yeah, yeah. So what's going on here is that the Lord is telling the people in Zion, those people who had been driven out, that they're going to be [00:42:00] chastened because they hadn't hearkened to his commandments. And this has a connection to section 84 in the Doctrine and Covenants, uh, revelation that came in September of 1832 because in section 84 verses 58 and 59, the Lord tells the Saints in Zion, in Jackson County.

That if they don't repent, that there will be a scourge that he afflicts them with. So he's kind of warning them way back in September of 1832. Yes, you need to repent, and if you don't, there's gonna be some things that that happen. In fact, Matt, we had the best discussion about Section 85 in connection to this.

Also, I wrote section 85, next to the verse, you just read us because this is exactly what's going on. The God had an order and he had called people to go to Missouri, but there were several overzealous members who just decided I'm going to, and they themselves went to Missouri and God's like, I'm a God of order, but he couldn't stop the people.

So, so many people ended up going and then they ended up. Depleting what the Saints had in Missouri. They ran out of food, they ran out of all of the stuff that they had thought was going to help build up Zion. And so now they're taking care of these extra people and that's where we get section 85 where he connects that to that great story in the book of Ezra, the book of Remembrance, like those Old Testament stories were so fun to study because the Lord's like, now I can't even count you.

You shouldn't be here. Go go back home. Yeah. And so I love that you said that, 'cause I wondered if that was the connection in section 1 0 3. Yeah, and I, I think sometimes we can read verses like this and it kind of conjuress up images of maybe what you could call the Old Testament, God, a God that is vengeful, that if you don't do what he says, he's going to punish you.

And I don't necessarily think that that, that that's what's going on. I think what the Lord is telling them, both in verse four of section 1 0 3 as well as in section 84 when he warns them about this, is he's basically saying. [00:44:00] I've given you commandments. If you don't follow what I've told you to do, there's going to be consequences to that.

Right. It's not that the Lord is gonna inspire people in Missouri to go and beat up latter-day saints and take their homes. Mm-hmm. I don't think the Lord does that. I agree. But I think the Lord can see the future and go, if too many of you go, it's gonna overwhelm the Missourians. Exactly. Like we don't wanna startle them.

And I like, that's how I kind of see it playing out. Yeah. So he's saying there's gonna be natural consequences that happen if you don't follow what I say. And I think that's an important thing for us to consider in our own lives. Because sometimes we can think, if I'm having trials in my life, the Lord is giving me those trials, and the Lord is punishing me because maybe I'm not faithful enough.

And that's not a healthy way of looking at things because I don't believe that the Lord operates that way. I think instead the Lord is there with us as our friends, like we just talked about. Mm-hmm. To bear us up in these trials. And he is basically saying, you know, I wish you would've obeyed what I said, um, because then this wouldn't have happened.

But I'm here for you and I will strengthen you and we'll get through this together because I am your friend. Oh, you're totally right, Matt, because in 1 0 3 verse one first thing he says, again, ve sane to my friends. And I like how you said that, Matt, because he's our friend. Then we have verse 12, because he says to us, listen, this is hard.

I understand it for after much tribulation, as I have said unto you in the former commandment with the blessing. Yeah. So I love that he, he's like, it's gonna be hard, but I, I am your friend and I'll make sure you're blessed through this tribulation. That's comforting, isn't it? It is. Yeah. It, it does. Raise a question for, for me and maybe Tammy, I, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this though.

Okay. Um, so it says in verse 12, after much tribulation come with the blessing. Why do you think that is? Why can't God just bless us without trials and tribulation? Why do we have to have the [00:46:00] tribulation before we get the blessing? Oh boy. Don't I wanna know. Seriously, that's, I'd love just the blessing. Um, well, I will say this in my own life and just, and many people who've listened know this about me, but fun fact about me, Matt, is I was a seminary institute teacher for a very, very long time.

And I did not get married until I was almost 35 years old. And I, that was a tribulation. Like I dated the free world. Maybe we dated, I don't know, Matt, if you were single, from 86 to 2006, I dated anybody. And I just think I prayed and I struggled and I fasted and I went to the temple and I did all the things that I thought I was supposed to do so I could get what I wanted.

And I shared a story about how when you do those things, it's actually helps you want what you get. But I remember on the day of my wedding, when I was at the altar. And the room was packed with all of my family and all of my friends. It was so beautiful. I did truly, I did this. We got to the altar and I just kind of laid over it like, like I just finished a marathon, right?

Like, oh, it was worth it. It was worth all that I went through to marry this person and to have this experience. And that was such a blessing. It was a glorious moment. And I was keeping a commandment to get married. And I knew blessings would come and the tribulation has not stopped. 'cause I'm in a blended family.

I married a man whose wife passed away. That was difficult. That was hard. But I think when the, the tribulation for me is like a microscope, or no, it's like a magnifying glass that if you have the tribulation, it magnifies the blessing. It magnifies it as being something better than I even imagined. Oh. I love that.

Yeah. I, I, I think that's so true and I mean, I've, I've found in my own life too that as much as I don't like going through trials hate, a lot of times that's where the spiritual growth comes. Right. And [00:48:00] at the times when I feel like everything's going great, I don't really feel like I'm progressing very much spiritually.

But it's in those moments of trial and tribulation where you really find your connection to God. Mm-hmm. And where you really find out how much of a friend he is to you. Oh, that made my heart smile. You're totally right to find out how much of a friend he is to you. Oh, that's beautiful, Matt. Thank you.

That's a great question you asked. Maybe we'll ask that on social media. I'd love for to hear what you listening friends have to say about why you think a trial or tribulation comes before the blessing. Yeah, we'll ask that. Well, Matt, in section 103, there's a verse, verse 23 that we absolutely have to highlight because in verse 23, it says, and let all the churches send up wise men with their monies and purchase lands, even as I have commanded them.

So in the next segment, Matt's gonna teach us who these wise men and wise women were. How fun is that? We'll do that next.

Segment 5

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Matt tell us who the wise women were. This is why Matt's here. He taught this at the meeting I was at, and I was so thrilled. I just made my heart so happy. Hit it. Y Yeah. So this is, this is awesome. As you said in verse 23, it talks about instructions where it says, let all the churches, when it says churches, it means the branches of the church.

So let all the branches, you could say, send up wise men with their monies and purchase lands, even as I have commanded them. And this is kind of reiterating something that the Lord had already told them in Section 1 0 1 of the Doctrine and Covenants where he said something similar there. So I, I wanna tell you about one wise woman who fulfilled this verse.

So in the summer of, uh, 1834. A branch in Lewis, New York, a man named Alva Tippets was the president of the branch. He was the presiding elder [00:50:00] there. And he read what the Lord had said in Section 1 0 1 of the doctrine and covenants again, which is repeated here in section 1 0 3. And he gathered the branch together.

He told them to come in in the spirit of fasting and prayer, and they came together and Alvis said to them, how are we going to fulfill this commandment of having wise men go with money and purchase lands, um, in Zion? And so the branch counseled together about how they were going to do this, and they decided that they were gonna raise as much money as they could among each other, and that they were going to have wise men take this money to Missouri so that Edward Partridge could use it to buy more land there.

Now one of the interesting things, they raise about $800 and $150. That 800 is contributed by a woman. And she's not very old. She's 22 years old. Whoa. And her name is Caroline Tippets. She was Alva Tippett's cousin, and she contributed about $150 into this fund of $800. They appointed two men, Joseph, uh, tippe and John Tippets.

You can tell the Lewis branch is kind of interrelated. There's, there's a lot of tippets in, in that branch. Um, they appointed those two men to take the money to Missouri. And Caroline said, well, I want to go to, can I come, come with you? And they said, sure. So she travels, uh, with these men. One of them was, was her cousin.

One of them, uh, was her brother. And they're traveling and they get to Kirtland in November of 1834, and they don't want to continue on to Missouri in the winter. So they decide that they're just going to stay in Kirtland for, for a period of time. And so when Joseph Smith hears that they're there, that they have this money that the Lewis branch has gathered together, he has, uh, the two men, Joseph and John Tippetts come [00:52:00] before the Kirtland High Council and he says to them, you have this money.

You have these, this $800 that you want to take to Missouri since you're not gonna be going there until spring, would you be willing to loan me part of that money so we can pay off some of the debts we have because of the construction of the Kirtland Temple? And so they talk amongst each other and they said, well, you know, 150 of that $800 was contributed by Caroline, and she's here with us.

She came with us. And so the Kirland High Council calls Caroline into the meeting. They said, Caroline, would you be willing to loan Joseph Smith and church leaders this $150, which they will repay to you so that you can then take it to Missouri? And she says, yes, yes, I will. I'm, I'm willing to do that. And so this is a great blessing to Joseph and Oliver Cowdry.

In fact, the following day there's an entry in Joseph Smith's journal where he says that he and Oliver Cowdry knelt down and prayed and thanked God for this money that had come to them from the Lewis branch. I wish he would've mentioned Caroline by name in that entry. He, he, he doesn't, but we know she was an instrumental part of this.

So later, um, in the spring of 1835, um, Joseph repays the money to Carolyn as well as some of the other money that they borrowed, and she and her brother and her cousin then go to Missouri to contribute the money there, uh, for the benefit of the Saints in, in Missouri. Now the story kind of has a sad ending.

Um, we don't know a lot about Caroline. We don't know how she got the money, uh, like what she did for work to be able to, um, save that amount of money. And we do know that two years after this, in 1836, she gets married and in childbirth she passes away. So she's only 24 years old when, when she dies. And her records have kind of been lost.

Like nobody really knows much about Caroline except she's mentioned in, uh, the [00:54:00] Kirtland High Council as coming in. But so whenever I read this verse in verse 23 about let the churches send up Wise men, I always add, and women, because Caroline was definitely one of these women who went and contributed money to help the Saints in Missouri.

Matt, thank you for sharing that. Her story. Oh, sweet. Caroline Tippetts. Tell us the story about what a group of women were called who donated money to Zion's camp. Yeah, so there's other women, um, who donate money for the good of Zion's Camp. Section 1 0 3 instructs Joseph Smith and others to go and recruit people for Zion's Camp.

In verse 29 talks about how Sidney Rigdon, uh, verse 30, Parley p Pratt and Lyman White. A bit later on, it talks about Joseph Smith and Parley p Pratt and Hiram Smith and Frederick g Williams. And Orson Hyde. And Orson Pratt. They're all supposed to go and recruit people and get funds for this expedition to Missouri.

Yeah, and so they leave in, most of them leave in February. Right after this Revel, this revelation is given and they travel back to the branches in the eastern United States to, uh, recruit people. And so they're trying to get funds, they're trying to get people to, to volunteer for this. The Saints do not respond in a resounding way, unfortunately.

Well, we just have to point out in section 1 0 3 that when the, when the Lord's giving this revelation, he says it first start and to try to get 500 people. Like if you can get 500 people, and I love how the Lord calls it in the strength of my house. Great. Yeah, go for 500. And then he is like, but if you can't get for 500, then okay, maybe just 100.

Like, I love how the Lord's willing to negotiate. Here's what I want, but here's what I will settle with. It kind of reminded me of Abraham in the Old Testament when he, the Lord comes to him for Sodom and Mura like, okay, how about 50 people? How about 20 people? And so you have these verses in section 1 0 3 [00:56:00] from 29 to 34, where finally the Lord's like, but if you can get a hundred.

Then that, then we'll go for that. Yeah. So, so the bare minimum is 100, right? Yeah. And he's like, if you can't get a hundred, then uh, let's just forget about the whole thing. You, you gotta at least get a hundred and you're telling me the Saints, were like, nah, none of us wanna do it. Yeah. So when, when Zion camp first leaves Kirland in May of 1834, you wanna know how many people are going.

Mm-hmm. It's a hundred, 120. So just over this bare minimum. Now they're, they're gonna recruit other people along the way. So eventually Zion Camp has about 230 people in it. Okay. But this just kinda shows that the Saints aren't really responding well and they're not donating a lot of money either. Um, but there are some women who donate money for Zion's Camp.

One is a woman named Polly Vs. Who again, she's a single sister living in Boston. She contributes $150 to Zion's Camp, sends it to Joseph Smith in, in Kirtland for the use of it. Another one who donates is someone. And this, this is a fun story too, because in Kirtland at the time, he had a man named Iber, how he was the editor of the Paynesville, uh, Telegraph, which was a newspaper in the region, and he did not like the Latter-Day Saints at all.

In fact, he writes what some people call the first quote, anti-Mormon book in 1830. Oh wow. 1834. He publishes a book called Mormonism Unveiled, which is just a diatribe against Joseph Smith and against the Saints. Well, his wife and his sister both joined the church and he's not very happy about this. And they also donate money to Zion's camp.

What? And so when you read in Mormonism Unveiled, he has a passage where he is talking about Zion's camp and he talks about these foolish women who throw in all they [00:58:00] have for the benefit of this expedition. And he is referring to his wife and his sister, um, in this book. 'cause he is mad, he's, he's upset that they donated money for Zion's camp.

And so he, he calls them foolish women, but the Lord would call them wise women. Um, absolutely. Oh, that's pretty cool. What's the man's name again? I wanna write this in my scripture. ID Howe, HOWE. Oh my goodness. That is a good story. And I like how you said that he did call 'em foolish women, but the Lord would call them wise women.

Yeah. That's so cool. And were there women in Zion's camp? There were, yeah. There, there were a handful of women who went, um, I. Uh, there were a couple that, that went with their husbands, uh, and their families along the journey. One of these women was Nancy Holbrook. She went with her husband Joseph Holbrook, on the Zions Camp Expedition.

Um, she traveled the whole way with her husband, her sister, and her husband also went, went with them. Mm-hmm. So they were two, two of the women in Zion camp. There's kind of a funny story where he c Kimball, who's a member of Zions camp, talks about how he was trying to wash his clothes at one point, and Nancy and her sister, Eunice and some of the other women would wash clothes for their families.

And so he had kind of Hebrew kind of observed them washing clothes, and so he decided that he was gonna try his hand at it. But what he did is he took his dirty clothes, stuck it in boiling hot water. Then started to scrub it with soap until like his, he said his knuckles were raw. He had scrubbed so hard and the dirt's not coming out.

And he said that some of the women in Zions camp just laughed at him and said, it's 'cause you baked the dirt into the clothes. 'cause you put the dirty clothes in the boiling water. So anyway. Oh, that is a good story. Yeah. So that, that's, that's kind of a, a fun story. But yeah, there, there were women, there were also children who went on science camp as well.[01:00:00]

So Matt, connect us now, now that we've done section 1 0 3, connect it to section 1 0 5 and what is the message the Lord has for the people in section 105? Yeah, I was, I, what stood out to me, this is what the Holy Ghost taught me, was how many times I saw the strength of my house in section 1 0 5. He says that often, what is he trying to teach us and the saints from this section?

Yeah, I think there's a lot of lessons that the Lord's trying to teach When he, when he is talking about the strength of his house, uh, he's using that terminology because of the parable that he gave to Joseph Smith in section 1 0 1, the parable of the nobleman who's landed, been overrun. Mm-hmm. And the nobleman calls his servant and he, and he tells the servant, call up the strength of my house to go and redeem my land.

And in section 1 0 3, the Lord very pointedly tells Joseph Smith, Joseph, you are the servant in that parable. You're supposed to call up the strength of my house to go and, uh, redeem the land. So section 1 0 3 is given in February of 1834. Section 1 0 5 is given in June of 1834. Right. So in between this period of time, in May of 1834 is when the Zions Camp Expedition begins.

There's a contingent that leaves from Kirtland. There's a contingent that leaves from Michigan. They join together in Missouri when they get there. It's kind of a difficult journey. There are some reports that they walked as many as 40 miles a day and some people didn't have, uh, boots or shoes that were broken in, and so they got blisters.

And so, uh, Heber c Kimball talks about some people kind of walking in blood because the blisters would break. For the most part. They had sufficient food, although not a lot of food, but there were times where they didn't have enough to eat and so they were struggling in, in that way as well. But they get to Missouri in June of 1834.

That's when, as I mentioned before, that Parley Pee Pratt and Orson Hyde are told to go talk to Governor Dunlin. They come back, they say, Joseph, he is not willing to call [01:02:00] up the militia. Even though Joseph knew that, you know, without the militia being called up, there's really not much that, that the Saints could do.

He said, well, we're gonna still continue on. So they keep marching to Liberty, Missouri, and when they get to Liberty, there's a couple of of events that happen or when, when they're just outside of, of Liberty. There's a couple of things that happen. One thing, and your listeners may have heard of this before, is the fishing river storm that occurs, and this happens again in June.

They're in Clay County and there's about five men that come into their camp one day and they tell Joseph Smith and others, you will see hell before this day is through. And essentially they said, we have 500 men who are just across the fishing river, and when it's nighttime, they're gonna come across this river.

We're gonna attack you and we're gonna kill you. Wow. And I mean, you can imagine if you were in the camp, you're kinda like, oh man, what's, what's gonna happen with this? Well, Huber c Kimball says that right when the men left, he saw this kind of dark speck begin to form in the sky, and it got bigger and bigger and bigger until there was a gigantic thunderstorm that was unleashed in the area.

There was lightning, there was thunderings, there was hail, there was rain. And according to Heber c Kimball, he said the fishing river rose so high that the men that were gonna cross it to attack the camp couldn't do it. They couldn't get across the river. Wow. And so the people of Zion's camp were safe.

And almost every member of Zion camp who remembered this incident, said That was the hand of the Lord protecting us. He protected us at, at that moment. Mm-hmm. So that happens. And then on June 21st, the day before section 1 0 5 is given, there's another group of men that come into Zion's Camp and they tell Joseph Smith they're, they're, they're much friendlier than, than the other men were, but they tell Joseph Smith essentially.

Uh, there's a lot of people who have gathered in Jackson [01:04:00] County. If you cross the Missouri River into Jackson County, they will attack you and there will be bloodshed. And so Joseph, the next day, June 22nd, convenes a council of some of the people in science camp and they talk about what should we do? And in that council Joseph gets section 1 0 5 in the doctrine and covenants and the section tells those in Zion's camp that the Lord accepted their sacrifice, but that it was no longer requisite for them to go and redeem Zion.

That's kind of the central message of, of section 1 0 5. Are there verses for that? Yeah, so if you go to, uh, verse nine, the Lord says, therefore, in consequence of the transgressions of my people is it is expedient in me that my elders should wait for a little season for the redemption of Zion. Then you go down to verse 13.

It says, therefore it is expedient in me that my elders should wait for a little season for the redemption of Zion. For behold, I do not require their hands to fight the battles of Zion for as I said in a former commandment. Even so will I fulfill, I will fight your battles. Now, prior to this, the Lord tells 'em in verses one through nine, uh, why they weren't going to redeem Zion.

And there's a couple of reasons. Um, when you read verses one through nine, um, the Lord kind of gets after some of the saints. Um, he says, verse two, were it not for the transgressions of my people speaking concerning the church and not individuals, they might have been redeemed even now, but behold, they have not learned to be obedient to the things which are required at their hands, but are full of all manner of evil and do not impart of their substance as become a saints to the poor and afflicted among them and are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom and what the Lord is saying there.

He's saying, he's talking to the whole church. He's not talking to the members of Zion's camp. Okay? He's talking to the whole church. And [01:06:00] he said, I gave you this revelation where I said, to gather 500 men at the bare minimum, 100 men, I told you to donate money for this expedition and to help the saints in Missouri.

And you, and you didn't really do it. You didn't respond to that commandment. And so we didn't have enough money, or we don't have enough money to help the people in Missouri like we need to help them. We don't have enough people to be able to go in and get our land back. And so he's telling them, you need to learn that.

You need to support the poor and the needy, and you need to be united. You need to come together in these hard times and help each other out, because that's the law of the celestial kingdom. And since the church wasn't willing to do this at this time, it's not possible for the saints to redeem Zion. I think that's a really important principle that, that the Lord's teaching us here about taking care of those who are poor and afflicted.

That can be monetarily, that can be spiritually, um, that can be mentally, emotionally, any of those things. We need to take care of those people and we need to be united. And if we're not willing to do that, how can we call ourselves disciples of Jesus Christ? If we're not willing to reach out to those who are suffering and help them like Jesus would do if he was here on the Earth, then we're really not following the Savior.

We're not following his words. We're not being disciples of Jesus Christ. And I think that's a really important principle. I do too, because as you were just talking about that it immediately like, I'm gonna put this cross reference in here because this is so cool. Ezekiel chapter 16, let's put that cross reference somewhere next to section 1 0 5 in the doctrine and covenants.

Because one of the things about Ezekiel is that he talks about what brought about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, and we think we know. But I [01:08:00] love this so much because right here it tells us exactly what brought about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. And it says in verse 48 and 49, 48 says, as I live sayeth the Lord God, Sodom thy sister hath not done nor she her daughters, as thou has done, thou are thy daughters.

Then 49 says, behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom pride. Fullness of bread and abundance of idleness was in her and her daughters. Neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and the needy. First and foremost, that's what brought about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. It was because they weren't taking care of the poor and the needy that they were full of pride.

They were full of idleness. And so I love how you've connected this idea of Zion's camp and Zion is taking care of the poor and the needy. And like you said, whether that be poor with people who literally have nothing, but we love poor in Hebrew, which can also mean poor in spirit, emotionally starving spiritually, you know, completely spiritually destitute.

Those are the people that we should be taking care of. So that was a cool way you said that, Matt. Yeah. And Tammy, I'll, I'll tell you those, those verses both in section 1 0 5 and in Ezekiel, they, they scare me a little bit because Right. I look at myself and I think, you know, it's pretty easy for me to pay fast offerings.

I don't really have an, an issue with, with paying fast offerings. But what do I do when we're asked to go and help out? At the Bishop storehouse or at the cannery. Mm-hmm. Or when I'm asked to go visit someone who may be struggling. Yeah. More often than not, I complain, I whine, oh, I don't have time. Why do I have to do that?

Why can't they get someone else? And then I read these verses and I'm like, boy, I have a lot of work to do. Yeah, right. So it's, it's kind of a scary thing, uh, for me to read some of these and there's, there's a lot that I need to improve on. Well, I wanna know this then Matt. When the Saints were told that they didn't need to fight, how did they respond to that?

How did the men feel? [01:10:00] Were they all like, thank goodness or were some a little upset? So some people had a problem? Okay. Alright, then here's what I want you to do, Matt, in the next segment, I want you to tell us what the problem was that they had. And then we're gonna go back to how we started. Because I wonder if maybe some of the Saints asked, well, what was the point of all of that?

We'll do that next.

Segment 6

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Alright, Matt, tell me how did the Saints respond when they were told you don't need to fight anymore? Yeah, so some members in Zion's camp were thrilled about it. Uh, there's a man named Nathan Baldwin who said, I was scared to have to try to fight anyone. And so when this revelation came, it was sweet to me.

I was very grateful for it. But there were some people in Zion's camp who were upset and there's, uh, some accounts of people that said that they took out their wrath with their sword on a poppa bush. And so they basically just kind of destroyed a bush. 'cause they were, they were so angry that, that they weren't going to fight.

And I think for some of these people, I mean, we, we, we don't have accounts from them saying why they were upset. But I think looking at it, some of them probably thought. Look, I just walked like 900 miles. Yeah. In bad conditions without a lot of food. And we get here and now you're saying we're not gonna do anything.

Why did I do this? What was the point of this? Yeah, I think that's really what a lot of them thought and they struggled with it. And I think some of them thought too, why would God make us go all this way just to tell us, Nope, you're not gonna be able to do it. Why didn't he just tell us at the start that we weren't going to be able to do it?

Why did he make us go through all of this? And what's your answer, Matt? Well, it's complicated for everyone and I don't pretend to speak, uh, for the people who participated in in Zion's camp, but I think [01:12:00] looking at some of the reminiscences of people who went, the vast majority of people who went on the Zions Camp Expedition did not regard it as a failure.

They regarded it as a time when they really. Came to know that God was with them and they came to know who God was, and they came to know who they were too, what they were willing to sacrifice, what they were willing to give up for the gospel. And so on a very personal level, for a lot of these people who participated in science camp, it was something that solidified their testimony of the gospel.

Now, for the church itself, one of the interesting things about this is when Joseph Smith calls the original 12 apostles in February of 18 35, 8 of the 12 apostles who were called participated in the Zion Camp Expedition. Oh, that's amazing. And a couple weeks after this, he calls the first members of the 70.

In this dispensation, he calls about 56 men to serve as 70. Every one of those 56 men were members of Zions Camp. Wow. And so I think this was a way for the Lord to really, uh, inspire Joseph Smith, help Joseph Smith see who the future leaders of the church would be. Joseph was able to observe them in a variety of conditions and in, in a variety of circumstances, so he could see how they would react to things.

And so it was a way for the Lord to kind of help Joseph Smith build up the future leadership of the church. Absolutely. Do you think he still does the same thing today? I do. I mean, I, I don't think he makes a bunch of us March 900 miles, uh, to certain places, but thank goodness. But I do think, you know what?

We have a lot of opportunities to serve in the church. Like I said, I'm always, I'm not always great at having a good [01:14:00] attitude about those things. Sometimes I think I'd probably be more like Sylvester Smith on Zion's camp, who was a man who went and complained the whole time and just was kind of a, a pain in the neck for Joseph Smith and others on the camp.

And I wonder would I have been like that? Maybe so I don't, I don't know. But I think the Lord does give us opportunities to serve, um, both to bless the lives of other people, but also to bless our own lives and to help us kind of figure out, okay, who, who are we and how committed are we to the gospel? And how committed are we to being disciples of Jesus Christ?

I think that's a great question. All of us need to ask ourselves, because as you were talking, I was thinking about all the callings I've ever had in the church and how, for me, those have been mini Zions camps or maybe it was my own Zions camp. When you're ca when you're given a calling that you feel like there's no way I can do this or, and a lot of callings oftentimes last three years.

And you're gonna be at Zions camp. It didn't last three years. And so every one of us have our own Zions Camp moments. And yeah, maybe in the middle of it you're thinking, what is the point? Like, why am I doing this? This seems like an endless battle or whatever you're calling is. But I think the message in section 1 0 5, I love how he ends verse section 1 0 5 with verses 38 through 41.

I think they're just so beautiful because wherever we are in our Zions camp moments when we kind of wonder what's the point, or if it's harder than we thought it would be, I, I really love how he just says to hi them so beautifully. And I think this really is what this Holy Ghost taught me. I had two lessons, the, the strength of my house, but then these verses hit me.

Matt, will you read 38 through 41? Sure. It says, and again, I say unto you, Sue, for peace, not only to the people that have smitten you, but also to all people. Lift up an enzyme of peace and make a proclamation of peace under the ends of the earth and make proposals for peace unto those who have smitten you according to the [01:16:00] voice of the spirit which is in you.

And all things shall work together for your good, therefore, be faithful and behold and low. I am with you even unto the end, even so. Amen. What do you learn from love versus Matt? Well, there's, there's a couple things for me. Um, first of all, I, I do wanna point out that the Saints at the time did interpret this literally, and a couple of months after this, they did publish what they called an enzyme of peace, a proclamation of peace in the church's newspaper.

Oh, wow. Which I, I think is, is neat because sometimes we, we, we don't really focus as much that these commandments had very literal meanings for the people at the time that they needed to go, go and do. Um, where can we read that proclamation, Matt? So, I'm trying to think. I think, uh, we have it on the Joseph Smith paper's website, but it's probably kind of buried in the evening and the Morning Star, which is the, the newspaper at, at the time.

But I will try and find it and send you a link to it if I can. Oh, that would be so cool. Yeah. Yeah, do that. The second thing that I think this, this teaches me, or, uh, another thing that I think this teaches me is something that really solidifies council, that President Nelson has given us in the past. So mm-hmm.

When I read those verses, I immediately thought of these words from President Nelson that he said, not that long ago in general conference, he said, my dear brothers and sisters, how we treat each other really matters. How we speak to and about others at home, at church, at work, and online really matters.

Today I am asking us to interact with others in a higher holier way. Please listen carefully. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy that we can say about another person, whether to his face or behind her back, that should be our standard of communication. And this is where President [01:18:00] Nelson is telling us to be a peacemaker, to not be one who generates contention.

Mm-hmm. But to be one that produces peace. And I think that's what these verses are telling us too, that it's important for us to be peacemakers both in our lives, um, as well as in the church. Wow. I agree. And this idea at verse 38 when he says, Sue for peace, I can only imagine hearing the word Sue. You think?

Yeah. Sue for what we deserve, Sue for what we should be getting back to us. And, but we live in such a knee jerk, you know, community or world right now where everybody wants their money back or they wanna sue because something was, you know. Done to them. And I love how the Lord, the only thing he says is just sue for peace.

That changed my whole mindset on what it means to sue people. If your only goal was to sue for peace in your heart, what does that look like? It probably doesn't have money attached to it. And so I just, I thought that was powerful To the Saints, like from here on out, just sue for peace. Find peace, be a peaceful people and that's neat.

I did not know there was a proclamation of peace written. Yeah. Yeah. What a great example to us. The Saints were for sure. Oh, so cool. Well, Matt, thank you. That's the end of our discussion. You know your stuff. That is so cool. I learned so much today. So just take a minute, gather your thoughts, and uh, just from studying and from this discussion, what's an eternal truth that you'll take with you?

What's something that you absolutely know is true from our, from sections 1 0 2 through 1 0 5? Well, this is something that I think I referenced earlier in our discussion. That is just the need to take an eternal perspective on things. And sometimes we have expectations of how something's going to work out or how the Lord's going, going to bless us with something.

And then when it doesn't happen that way, it can be hard for us. It can be really, really difficult for us. And it made me think of my own mission. So I was called to serve in the Belgium TWE mission, [01:20:00] which is the Dutch speaking part of Belgium. And as a European mission, that was not an easy mission. There were not a lot of people who wanted to talk to us about the gospel.

And uh, I never baptized anyone on my mission. There were, there was a woman that I found doing street contacting that other elders taught and was baptized. And there was another man that I helped teach who eventually got baptized. But other than that, nobody I taught got baptized. Whoa. And that. Was hard for me in part because of something that my patriarchal blessing said, where it said that, uh, essentially it said, I give you a promise that you'll have success on your mission.

And after my mission was over for many, many, many years, I would think of that and I would think of my mission and I would think that wasn't a success. How was that a success? What was the point of all that? Yeah, what was the point of it exactly? Which, like we've talked about, I'm sure you know, observers of Zion's camp.

Were were saying the same thing, including some of the members of Zion's camp. And so it's taken a lot of, uh, prayer. It's taken a lot of discussions with my parents to kind of make sense of what that means in, in my patriarchal blessing. And a couple of years ago, my mission president, who was sick at the time, he has since passed away, but he called me out of the.

He said to me, Matt, I just feel like I need to call you. He said, I know your mission was hard, and I know you feel like you failed, and I just feel like I need to tell you, you did not fail. That your mission was a success because you tried your best, you worked your hardest, and the Lord has accepted that for you.

And that really meant a lot to me. Yeah. [01:22:00] And as I look back over my mission, I think, you know, maybe I didn't bring a lot of people into the church, but I solidified my own testimony. Yeah. And being able to continue to work hard without hardly any success, showed me how much the gospel meant to me, how much the savior meant to me, and what I was willing to do for them.

And that was a lesson that I don't think I could have learned any other way. Wow. Matt. You are a living, breathing example of Zion's Camp because of your mission, the foundation that it created in you and your testimony. Look what you've gone on to do. You've gone on to be a church historian, eight volumes of Joseph Smith papers that all of us have been able to benefit from hearing things that probably maybe made you go, wait, what?

Like church history stuff can be tricky and yet here you are, you're still a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints. You have added to the strength of his house over and over and over again. I don't think you could have done that without your mission. No, I, I don't think I would've either.

Um, that's pretty, it really was pretty awesome. A foundational thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was. So thank you. Thank you heavenly father, for sending him to that mission because we needed, we needed Matt today to teach us everything we know and to have what we know in the Joseph's papers. It's so awesome. And again, I hope everyone's using the three little dots on your gospel app so that you can read everything that's been written.

So, Matt, thank you. Thanks for coming so well prepared and for the time that you've put in to studying church history, we have benefited greatly from your knowledge. You're awesome. Oh, thanks, Tammy. It's truly been a pleasure and, uh, I've learned a ton today myself, both from you and, and from the spirit. So I, I really appreciate that.

Absolutely. Well, thank you. Thank you. And the thing that I for sure loved was when you connected section 1 0 2 and you said that the high council was needed [01:24:00] to address the issues in Missouri. God is so good. Yeah, that, that's so cool how that worked out. I hadn't even thought of that, so thank you for teaching me that.

Yep. All right, well have a good day, friend. We're done. Thanks, Tammy. I just appreciate you having me on. It's, it seriously is a privilege to, to be able to do this. Well, what was your takeaway? What eternal truth did you learn? Wow, that was a good discussion. I love church history. You can go to our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram to share what you have learned, and you can even ask questions that I will answer that is so fun.

Then at the end of the week, on a Saturday, we post a question for this discussion. Comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday and go there anyway, because it's where we're gonna have links to the references as well as the transcript of this whole discussion.

So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our incredible, awesome study group participant was Matt Godfrey. And you can find more information about him at lds living.com/sunday on Monday.

Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week, and please remember that God is your friend and you are his favorite.