The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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Segment 1
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Have you ever opened the scriptures? Read some verses and thought, what did I just read? There are prophecies in the scriptures, which include symbols that are sometimes, or honestly all the times, difficult to understand. Well, in Far West Missouri. A few brethren had an incredible opportunity to ask Joseph Smith to clarify some passages.
That contain symbols that are found in Isaiah Chapters 11 and 52. The Lord's answers to those questions are recorded in Doctrine and Covenant section 113, and I have two scholars today who are going to help us understand what the symbols and the wording mean. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday podcast, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the come Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together.
I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description. It's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come Follow Me study, just like my longtime listening friend Krista parent from Calgary, Canada. Hi Krista. We love that you listen.
Thanks for saying hi. Now, another awesome thing, and this is my favorite thing about our study group, is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different. And today I am so excited to introduce you to a good longtime friend, professor and Dr. Don Perry. Hi Don. Hi. And Don, we have a friend that's new and she's here to join us, and we are thrilled to introduce her.
Her name is Rebecca Miller. Hi Rebecca. Hi. So good to be here. Oh, so good to have you. Okay. How do you two know each other? Because I just met Rebecca and I've been looking forward to meeting her for a very long time, but I know of her through Don. So how do you two know each other? So let, let me begin with that.
Uh, sister Miller, uh, wa was my student of Biblical Hebrew here at BYU. She was so excellent and superb at what she did that I ask her to help me, uh, with different projects. And she, she continues to [00:02:00] do a superb job. So now we are team teaching Hebrew 1 31 here at BYU. We have 35 students in our class. We are also, uh, uh, uh, sister Miller is overseeing the independent study.
Biblical Hebrew program and a little later we're going to explain the, uh, a, a special course that we're going to teach for non-traditional students. But, uh, sister Miller, what would you like to add? I think that's great. Thank you. That's a great introduction. I'd take that by Don any day. How fun. Rebecca, what did you think when Don came to you and asked you to help him?
Um, well, honestly, a little overwhelmed, but a lot excited. I mean, one of my favorite things is to be able to teach this language that has impacted my life so much and to be able to, to be a part of this, like I have to pinch myself every day just because I'm like, this is the coolest job ever that I get to come and, and really just teach this language.
And it's just been really amazing. So. Well, let me ask you really quick, 'cause you said that this language has impacted your life so much. Give us an example of how it's impacted your. I think the thing that surprised me the most, you know, um, years ago when I felt prompted to start studying this language, the Lord just gave me this desire.
And I think the thing that surprised me the most was that through learning biblical Hebrew and reading the Bible in its original language, I have come closer to the Savior and to my Heavenly Father. And I have been able to, I've, I've found Jesus Christ in the Old Testament so much. Yeah. And that alone, the scriptures have become more real.
The Lord has become more real for me. Um, and it's just been, it's been [00:04:00] a, a beautiful blessing in my life. Wow. Rebecca, thank you for sharing that. I will second Rebecca's testimony. Everything she just said is true and I feel the same way. And I love how you said you have found Jesus Christ in the Old Testament through reading it, and it's an original language.
I absolutely agree. And so this is an exciting moment because as Don said, we're going to introduce something. Many people have reached out to me and said, how do I learn Hebrew? Many of you listening have all wanted to learn Hebrew, and it's been difficult because there aren't really online courses that you could take, but Don and Rebecca have some very exciting news.
So tell my listeners, what is your news about learning Hebrew? Okay, so we are so excited to share something that we have not done in the past. We are starting a special beginning biblical Hebrew certificate course. It will be over zoom so anyone in the world can take it. Yay. I know. So exciting. Um, it's the very first time we put something like this together.
Um, and we really would love anyone who is interested to join us. So a little bit about the course. It'll be a 10 week course and there won't be any. Hard exams or quizzes. Um, we're going to be teaching how to read and translate really the Hebrew Bible. Mm-hmm. And along the way, hopefully we'll be able to share some really neat treasures as we look at Hebrew words and, and look at the verses.
Because as you know Tammy, and because, and you love to share Hebrew word Oh, love it on your podcast. Love it. Because it often takes numerous English words to be able to, to, um, describe one Hebrew word. Right. And one, oh yeah. Word can have, you know, many meanings. Mm-hmm. So what somebody is translating, you are only getting one of those meanings over.
But when you know the Hebrew word all of a sudden mm-hmm. That verse we're reading just opens [00:06:00] up. There's like this beautiful depth that comes. You see all the corners, all the sides. Um, and it's amazing. So it, oh my gosh. You wanted to add, uh, Dr. Perry about the class? Yes. Thank you very much. Uh, we are so excited about this class and, and like you Sister Hall, we have had so many people over the years say, we want to learn Hebrew, but we don't want to pay the full tuition.
We don't want to have the exams and the quizzes, and we don't need this class class on our transcript. Uh, but we'd still like to learn Hebrew, so, so we have, um, sister Miller and I have designed, uh, a, a course special. It'll take the students through part of our textbook. Um, and then we, we will, uh, review and see if we want to.
To go further with the same group of students. But let me give you three reasons why everyone should study Biblical Hebrew. Please. Number one is the ancient prophets prophesy of the Messiah, Jesus Christ in the Hebrew language. And to really understand and comprehend what, uh, those prophecies about our savior and Lord, uh, that, that you really have to go to the Hebrew.
Mm-hmm. At least in my opinion. And I've been teaching Hebrew for 33 years now. We recognize that Hebrew's not for everybody. Let me give you a second reason. I've got three in mind. I just want to share the, the next one is kind of interesting. It's a little bit intimate, and it was a Jewish poet named Hai.
Nachman Bialek who said this, and I'm going to quote him so I get it right. Reading the Bible in translation is like kissing your new bride through a veil, meaning her wedding veil. So, so, um. Uh, I love that quote. It's, it's, it's very meaningful. If, if you want to read the [00:08:00] Bible in translation, it's like kissing your new bride through veil.
Mm-hmm. So that has, uh, certain levels of meaning. The third one is a quote from our prophet and Sir Joseph Smith who studied Biblical Hebrew, and he said this quote, our latitude and longitude can be determined in the original Hebrew with far greater accuracy than in the English version than he can.
Continues, there is a grand distinction. Notice he says a grand distinction between the actual meaning of the prophets and the present translation. So I have a host of reasons of why people might want to take Hebrew. Again, it's not for everybody. Uh, and maybe it's for you 10 years down the road, but like Sister Miller, it just changes our understanding of who heaven father is and, and, uh, Jesus Christ the Messiah.
Absolutely. So for those of you listening, your heart was pricked. You're, I know you're excited because you're like, I wanna learn Hebrew. So here's what you're going to do. You're gonna go to our show notes, and in our show notes, we're going to have a link where you can sign up to take this class. What you need to do is you're gonna send an email to Rebecca if you're interested, and she's gonna create a group, and then she'll send the Zoom link out to you every week, every Wednesday when the class happens.
Now, if you're thinking, but I work and I can't take the class on a Wednesday, Rebecca, what's the good news about that? The great news is we're going to record every class. So if you want to study it at night, it's gonna be available for you. So you'll need to go to our show notes, send Rebecca Miller an email, and then on in our show notes, we're gonna have links to the two sources you need to study.
You need to buy the book from the BYU bookstore, and then you also need to buy content from the studying. What's the name of the website your, um, that you created? It's a, it's a biblical Hebrew learning tool. Yes, but go to [00:10:00] hebrew.byu.edu. So normally when I first took my first class at the Jewish Community Center, I paid $150 for an eight week course.
So this is not gonna cost you that much. It's going to cost you a textbook. And then the study tool, so I think I added it up. It's roughly around a little less than $70 and it is going to just change your life. So it's worth the $70 for sure. Okay. Rebecca, for our listeners, the first day of class, when did that begin?
That began October 1st, last Wednesday. So it's only been a week. So don't fret, you're not behind. So you can go watch the recorded class and get caught up and then join us this coming Wednesday. Again, if you can't join us, you can always watch it recorded and then you get to it. Just do it. I love how you get to do it at night 'cause you're gonna record it.
So go and take Hebrew, you guys, we're gonna learn Hebrew as we get ready to study the Old Testament next year. We're so excited. And then Don and I have a little fun announcement as well because as you're diving into the Old Testament next year you are gonna dive in with us. Don, tell them the good news.
Well, I, I, I've just, uh, we are going to conduct a podcast series, sister hall and I, it's called Jesus Christ in scripture. And this is, um. Uh, Jesus Christ focused podcast and we're, we're, uh, we're going to reveal Jesus Christ in the Old Testament, which is the first testament of Jesus Christ. This is not the Tammy and Don show.
No. This is a Jesus Christ in scripture set of presentations. And we have, uh, we're, I think we're gonna have about 200 short presentations. Does that sound right, sister Hall? It does. Yes. I think we are trying to do one per day for the whole Old Testament year, and they're, the thing I like about it is they're nice short nugget bites, so you're not gonna spend two hours on your computer studying.
It's what you wanna know for the [00:12:00] Come Follow Me lesson for that week. That will just change your life and studying the Hebrew. And, and we have, uh, we have some fascinating presentations all ready to go. Mm-hmm. Uh, I'll just give you two or three examples. Uh, I could give you 50, but one is, uh, what, what is the creation narrative and why do we have the creation narrative in our temple?
Another one is, what is the name of. Elohim, I'm saying that with great respect and care. What does the name, title Elohim mean? Uh, another one is, what does the name Jehovah mean? We're going to look at some difficult stories, for example, Jacob and Leah. But why did Jacob, this is a mystery that a lot of people have really struggled over.
How, how did Jacob, after he got married to Leah, then he wakes up in the morning and say, it's Leah. Uh, and he, and, and there's a big surprise there that we're going to deal with that. And I'm not gonna give it away right now. Uh, we have several techs that deal with the last days. For example, there's a text that deals with Adam Onai, Amman.
I, it's a powerful scriptural text, and it's in the Old Testament. And I don't know if, if people know, but a lot of the descriptions of the millennium are also in the Old Testament. We're one, one more item. Uh, we we're going to look at seven myths. Of the Old Testament myths that people have around the world of the Old Testament will try to say, well, this is a myth.
This is the real meaning we have. I'm just excited to work with Sister Tammy Hall on this, and I think everyone will enjoy this podcast. It's gonna be so much fun. It will be on YouTube and the YouTube series will be called Jesus Christ in Scripture. So share it with your friends, watch it with your family.
It's gonna be a great time. And so we can't wait and I'll let you know more about it as it gets much closer. So thank you [00:14:00] YouTube. Okay, you can find more about my friends in our show notes. So go to LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. And again, go there so you can find the links and get Rebecca's email address and sign up for the class.
And I'm taking the class as well. I can't wait. It's gonna be so fun to just be a part of this. So everyone grab your scriptures and let's dig into doctrine and Covenant section 113 to get some clarity on scriptures with symbols that are difficult to understand. Alright, first off, I know I always say, what did the Holy Ghost teach you?
But we're doing that a little bit different. We're gonna ask that question at the very, very end because what we wanna first get into is Joseph Smith history. So let's go to Joseph Smith history in our scriptures. On the night of September 21st, 1823, before going to bed, a 17-year-old Joseph Smith prayed to be forgiven of his sins, and he asked for a manifestation that he might know of his state and standing before the Almighty God.
That's in Joseph Smith history one verse 29. Well, Joseph got an answer to that prayer and in the middle of the night it came. Let's go to Joseph Smith history and we're gonna read verse 30. And Rebecca, can you read that for us please? Yes. While I was thus in the act of calling upon God, I discovered a light appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noon day when immediately a personage appeared at my bedside, standing in the air for his feet, did not touch the floor.
Thank you. Now this person, as we know in verse 33, is Mornay. Verses 31 through 33 is Joseph's description of Mornay. And then Mornay begins to quote scripture to Joseph Smith. Now in verse 36, it says that he quotes the third and fourth chapter of Malachi. And then look at verse 40 and Rebecca, will you please read verse 40 for us?
Mm-hmm. In addition to these, he quoted the 11th chapter of Isaiah saying that it was about to be fulfilled. He quoted also the third chapter of Acts 22nd and 23rd verses precisely [00:16:00] as they stand in our New Testament. He said that the prophet was Christ, but the day had not yet come. When they, who would not hear his voice should be cut off from the among, from among the people, but soon would come.
Thank you. So in your scriptures highlight in verse 40 where it says, in addition to these, he quoted the 11th chapter of Isaiah. Saying that it was about to be fulfilled, and we're gonna cross reference tent. Verse 40, write Doctrine and covenant section 113. Now I am kind of blown away by this because section 113, Joseph's going to let us know what these verses mean in Isaiah 11, but I ask these two, this question of all the verses of scripture that Moroney could have shared that the Lord would've sent Moroney with.
Why do you think he recited Isaiah chapter 11 to Joseph Smith young, 17-year-old Joseph Smith? Before I begin, let, let me mention, um, brother Hugh Nibley, who was a, a well-known latter-day saint scholar, uh, had a great sense of humor and, uh, he once said something like this, why would you like an angel to appear to you?
And he is referencing an angel like Marnay. Why would you like an angel to appear to you? Because all they do is quote scripture. So it's kind of humorous. Now I pondered, uh, why, why, um, why Isaiah 11? And I think I, I, I have some ideas that I'd like to share with you ever. So briefly. Um, this chapter, prophesies of Jesus, the Messiah, and, uh, he will sm the earth.
He'll slay the wicked of the second coming, and he'll prepare for the glorious millennium when he'll rule with justice and righteousness. And by the way, um, Isaiah 11 contains one of the greatest statements on the millennium. And if we have time, we'll look at a couple verses there, but notice the [00:18:00] very end of chapter 11 verses 11 through 16 deal with us today.
And in my opinion, these verses are being fulfilled right now and that it deals with the gospel in sign that's being raised. And Israel's, uh, exiles are being gathered. And as we all know, president, uh, Nelson has talked about the gathering of Israel a lot, so mm-hmm. So e everything in chapter 11 deals with our time period now and until the savior second coming and through to the millennium.
Wonderful answer. Don, thank you for enlightening us on that. And I think your response was just spot on. What about you, Rebecca? Any thoughts? I just say amen to, to Don. I think that's a good way to go. I think I'm gonna say that a lot with Don when I do something with him. Amen. Whenever Don said, yay. It is quite remarkable though.
And I agree with you, Don, that of all the things to first talk about, he's like, let's talk about Jesus Christ and what he asked His and and what these verses, what Isaiah teaches us about him, which we're going to get into in the next segment. But before we get into those verses about the Savior, turn to doctrine and covenants, section 113 and grab something to highlight your scriptures with.
And what I want you to highlight is it's at the beginning of verse two, verse four and verse six. These three verses have this phrase, thus sayeth the Lord. They're only found in that, that phrase is only found in verse two, verse four and verse six. And I just wanted you Don to tell us when we see that in scripture, what does that term thus sayeth the Lord mean to us?
It should make our ear ears perk up a little bit, shouldn't it? Yes. Um, I have studied what we call revelatory formulas in the scriptures, including the, uh, old Testament and also the Book of Mormon. And there, uh, uh, to my memory, there are [00:20:00] four or five revelatory formulas that introduce the Lord's direct speech.
And one of the very common one is thus say the Lord. So thus say the Lord and then quote, thus say the Lord. And then quote. Notice in verse two it says, verily verily is like truly. Thus the Lord Ver verse four starts with behold, behold is pay attention. Mm-hmm Thus say the Lord. And verse six also. So these are, are, are formulaic sayings that have a lot of power behind them.
Perfect. Thank you so much. So let's dive into these verses then and let's find out what we are to verily and behold, thus sayeth the Lord and specifically what it is that Moroni and our Heavenly Father wanted young Joseph to know about Jesus Christ. We'll do that in the next segment.
Segment 2
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Let's go to doctrine and covenant, section 113 and we are going to just read verses one and two. Rebecca, will you read those for us? Yes. Who is the stem of Jesse spoken of in the first, second, third, fourth, and fifth verses of the 11th chapter of Isaiah? Verily thus sayeth the Lord. It is Christ. Thank you.
So I've underlined stem of Jesse in that verse, and then I went to verse two and circled Christ and connected those two so I can remember stem of Jesse and Christ. But what struck me is that it said, who has spoken of in first, second, third, fourth, and fifth verses. And so I asked my guests, let's turn to Isaiah chapter 11 verses one through five.
And everyone listening, let's go there. Isaiah chapter 11 verses one through five teach us about the stem of Jesse or Jesus Christ. And I wanted to know from you two, what important truths do these five verses teach us [00:22:00] about Jesus Christ? What could we mark and what do you want us to know? So actually every verse is just packed, packed with powerful doctrine.
So if you look at, uh, verse two, uh, I'll read it. Isaiah 11 verse two. And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him. Uh, this and then notice. So that's a doctrinal statement that, that has a lot of theology and power behind it. The Messiah will have the spirit of the Lord. I think you taught me this, Don, really quickly, where it says, yeah, please, the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him.
I made that a capital HI think you taught me that. Possibly yes. 'cause it's talking about Christ right there to remind me when I come back to read this, the hymn is Jesus. So keep going. Okay. Excellent. In fact, in the Hebrew, uh, uh, the word for spirit is ruach. And by the way, sister Hall and I will be talking about the, the Holy Ghost in, in the Old Testament, I get a lot of questions.
It's a, it's a Holy Ghost in the, the Old Testament. And we'll look at several verses. Yes, absolutely, positively. So, yes, capital S the spirit of the Lord. Notice the next one is the spirit of wisdom. And, and that would be a lowercase s the spirit of wisdom and understanding. The spirit of ca, all of these things, the Messiah will have, he'll have wisdom, understanding counsel and might knowledge and, and of the fear of the Lord.
Now, Rebecca, when you read that where it says the fear of the Lord, what does the word fear mean? Is he really afraid of God? What are we learning about that word? No, I think that this word really does. Mean, well, it'd be better translated as respect and reverence and worship. Perfect. You're right. Awesome.
Okay, keep going. Anything else that these verses can teach us? Absolutely. Uh, verse three, it, it repeats fear of the [00:24:00] Lord and shall make him of quick understanding. And, and quick here is very interesting. I like the translation, quick understanding in the fear of the Lord. Notice he shall not judge after the sight of eyes.
That's what human, we use our eyes and we make judgements. Rather, he'll have knowledge and discernment and understanding and he, he knows how to look at your heart. Neither will he reprove after the hearing of his ears. So he's way beyond the way humans judge and our very imperfect way of judging. That's verse three.
That might be my favorite verse of description right now of the savior problem. How have I read that? So many times, Don, and I've never noticed those specifically. Maybe it's 'cause of what I'm going through in my life right now, but just that idea that when it comes to his judgment, he won't judge after the side of his eyes.
He won't reprove after hearing of his ears. And as humans, we're so quick to do that and I always think I'll grow out of it, but sometimes eighth grade Tammy comes out and I'm like, true judging and reproving all the time. But I love how this verse describing Jesus Christ. Boy, thank goodness that's him.
Very cool. Well, I also really loved that in verse three that he doesn't judge after. How like we see people, but he judges our hearts. Um, because sometimes we feel really insignificant, like you were saying, right? Like, we can't do the things that he's calling us to do, but he sees something more in us than what we can see.
Oh, I like that. And I really think that these things that we were just talking about, the spirit of wisdom, understanding, um, counsel might, the spirit of knowledge, all these things, the Lord promises to give us of his spirit. Mm-hmm. When we make covenants, we receive and keep those covenants, we receive [00:26:00] his spirit upon us, and that spirit can bring all those same gifts to us.
So as we are feeling in insignificant, maybe in our callings or as moms or dads or brothers or sisters, we could remember that the Lord will give us these same gifts, these same powers, that the Lord himself has. Oh, I think that's beautiful. Has there been a time in your life where you have felt insignificant, where these verses mattered?
Oh, yes. All the time. I feel like, oh man, just being a mom, right? Mm-hmm. Like, um, I have seven kids and it's hard. I feel like being a mom is the hardest job in the world sometimes. Yeah. Um, but the enabling power that Jesus gives to us when we just say, Lord, I'm here. Right? Like, I'm gonna show up. I'm gonna do my best, but you know, the outcome that's yours, and just make it okay.
I feel like a lot of us, you know, and maybe have felt the same thing of like, Lord, I just need you to just fix my mistakes. Right, right. Fix the flaws because I'm going about this imperfectly and he does. Oh, he absolutely does. And how, I love your connection to verse three, how you put it on us and how he sees us.
Thank goodness he sees us bigger and better than we do ourselves. So thank you. We could clearly spend another hour just on the rest of these verses, but I'm gonna encourage everyone listening, keep reading verses four and five. I'd love for you to share on our social media what you learned about Jesus Christ in these verses.
And I am just so blown away by the fact that one of the first things Moroni says to Joseph Smith, that Heavenly father wants him to know is about Jesus Christ, because this is going to be his church and it's gonna be the church of Jesus Christ. And so, of course, Joseph, let me tell, I know you saw him in the grove, but now let's learn about him.
What a great lesson for all of us. So [00:28:00] thank you to both of you. Okay, so we have more symbols coming up. So in the next segment we're gonna talk about another thing that we're going to read in section 113 that you're like, what does this mean? We'll do that next.
Segment 3
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Okay. You two, what images come into your mind when you think of a rod? I'll tell you what image comes to my mind is, is the rod of Aaron. And I know we're talking about a different rod here. Mm-hmm. But the rod of Aaron, which is a, a dead stick or dead branch that blossomed with, with three items on it, almond buds, blossoms, and actual almonds.
So the rod of Aaron. Oh, that's fun. Don. When I taught that to my seminary students, I went out and got a stick and I glued almonds to it. So they Oh, fun. They have official, I'm like, not sure if this is what it looked like, but you'll never forget it. So that's a good story. I can't wait to get to that next year.
Rebecca, describe what a rod is when you hear of that. Uh, well, uh, my first impression is like the rod of iron, right? Like this Yeah. Dirty thing that can, you know, withstand stuff. So for sure. And it's heavy, right? Mm-hmm. Like I imagine something really round, i, a rod to me is pretty thick too, and heavy and big.
Um, that's what I imagine a rod is. And so I want you to be, everyone be thinking about this because it was interesting to read. Let's go to section 113 and Don, will you please read verses three and four. What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah? That should come of the stem of Jesse?
Behold, thus say the Lord. It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well, of as well as of [00:30:00] Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there has laid much power. Okay, Don, everyone listening in verse four, circle the word servant because it doesn't say who the servant is, but we have Revelation and Don has studied this.
Don, who is the servant in verse four? Well, uh, I don't ho hold on before we, we talk about it. Here's the problem. I, I don't know if we know for certain we, so that might disappoint you. No, no, no, that's fine. Uh, are, are you speaking of verse four? Yes. I'm speaking of Joseph Smith being the servant from.
Different commentaries. I think that's what you wrote in your understanding, Isaiah. Yeah, I did. And I Can you say that I quote Sidney Sperry? Yes. Uh, in his book called Old Testament Prophets. One reason we cite him is because he was, uh, leading authority that set that forth. But in our commentary, we also say it might refer to another latter day prophet yet to come forth.
Yes. So for that, when until a prophet of God tells us for certain, I, I, I'm still a little hesitant to say, uh, very strongly, oh, that's Joseph Smith. Thank you for that definition because to the outside of servant, I did put Joseph Smith or another future prophet. Oh, good for you. Yeah. What You got that?
Because I read your writing. Oh, good for you. Yeah, so let's put that, put Joseph Smith or another Future prophet, and I like that you set that up that way. Let's assume if it could be Joseph Smith. I think the thing that kind of struck me was the word rod, and I looked that up in Hebrew and the word rod is aire and it means a branch or a twig, which kind of blew my mind.
'cause a rod in my mind is heavy and thick. It's like we described, I love how you said Rebecca, it's metal, it's dingy, it's dirty, but now if it's just a twig, what is the twig? Or the branch spoken of. It changed the image for me and it made me [00:32:00] think of doctrine and covenant. Section 124 verse one, how the Lord describes Joseph in that verse.
Let's turn there. We could even cross reference verse three to section 124, verse one. And Rebecca, will you read that verse for us please? Mm-hmm. Verily, thus sayeth the Lord unto you, my servant Joseph Smith. I am well pleased with your offering and acknowledgements, which you have made for unto this end.
Have I raised you up that I might show forth my wisdom through the weak things of the earth. Thank you. There is this idea where Joseph is called a weak thing. We have a quote right here. This is by Elder Marcus, b Nash, and I just want us to read this. He gave this at A BYU speech on November of 2013. So Rebecca, will you please read this quote?
And he quotes second Nephi scriptures, and then he talks about 'em. Joseph of the Old Testament, prophesied of the prophet Joseph Smith in these words, thus sayeth the Lord unto me, a choice Sear will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins? And he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins.
And unto him, will I give power to bring forth my word for the thing which a Lord shall bring forth by his hand. By the power of the Lord shall bring my people unto salvation and out of weakness, he shall be made strong. This last phrase must have comforted Joseph Smith for, although he was strong of body, mind, and character, he was weak by almost every other earthly measure.
As I share with you stories and facts about the prophet Joseph Smith, please keep in mind the phrase, out of weakness, he shall be made strong and consider three questions. How can weaknesses lead to strength? How is Joseph Smith made strong out of weakness? And what does this mean for me? Thank you.
Appreciate that. So let's go to this idea of the word rod actually being a branch or a twig. And tell me what does this teach us about Joseph Smith and that ultimately about ourselves, how the Lord out of [00:34:00] weak things, makes things strong. So I think something is really interesting and I kind of wanna back up a little bit.
Please do, um, the word that. Is in verse three that says the stem of Jesse, which is referring to Christ. That word stem in Hebrew is Gaza, and that word also means a trunk. And in the come Follow Me, um, manual for this week, there's actually a picture, and it's this, this stump, this tree. And on it it says stem on the trunk.
So they got that right. It is trunk, okay? That this tree that's been cut down, and you'll see this branch, right, this twig that's growing out of this trunk. And it's small, right? Like this trunk was big and it was cut down. But this little twig is small. And I think we have to remember that that twig, you know, that that growth out of it has a potential of becoming just as thick as.
That trunk, you know, just like that seed, right? Just like a seed of a tree is so small and it sits under the ground with so much pressure on it thinking how am I ever gonna get to be this big? But it does line upon line. And, and, and that's kind of, that was probably so comforting to Joseph saying I don't have to be everything now like the local has taken me there.
Well, Rebecca, I'm so appreciative that you brought up that picture because as you were talking and you said that that branch was growing out of the trunk, I thought, and then you said, it can become great. It can become thick and beautiful. And then I finally realized, oh, because it's connected to Jesus Christ, like that is the only way it could never do it on its own.
I think Joseph Smith knew that. I think he absolutely knew that he relied on the savior. And so for this idea to be this little [00:36:00] branch, but then it would become great is so beautiful because it became great because of Jesus. So thank you for pointing that out. I'm so glad you brought up that picture.
It's a good one. And, and there's an image, um, uh, there's an actual tree at the Jerusalem Center, the BYU Jerusalem Center. When you park your bus. Then as you're walking on a sidewalk to the entrance to the right of the sidewalk, there's a tree, an olive tree that, that depicts that exact thing. It has the trunk and then it has a little branch.
And, and I take latter day Saints to Israel often, and I'll stop and I'll show them that. And over the years, uh, I, I first lived in Israel in 1987. Over the years, I've watched this little twig grow into a, a big branch. So it's a beautiful illustration of Isaiah 11. Wonderful. Thank you, Don. I love to copy these off and cut them out and put 'em in my scriptures, so thank you to both of you.
Well, that was fun to define those two verses, but there's more. And so in the next segment, we have another part of the tree to discuss. And so we're gonna do that in the next segment.
Segment 4
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We are in section 113. Still we're going to read verses five and six. Rebecca, will you read those for us? Yes. What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter? Behold, thus sayeth the Lord. It is a descendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood and the keys of the kingdom for an enzyme and for the gathering of my people in the last days.
Okay, Don, take it away. Who are, who's this verse talking about? A lot of latter day Saint Scholars say, this is Joseph Smith, the prophet and s and if you look at some of this, um, some of these [00:38:00] descriptions, I, I just love it. Uh, some have said that he's a descendant of both Jesse and as as Joseph. Can you tell us what that means?
'cause some people are like, who's Jesse? Yeah, Jesse. Jesse is, uh, uh, from, from David, uh, king David. So it's the same descendants as King David. I do not have a reference for the idea that Joseph Smith was a descendant of Jesse. I think we do have a reference or two that he was a descendant of Joseph.
Mm-hmm. So, on, on these matters, we have to remain quite humble. But just to continue, Joseph Smith held the priesthood. He possessed the keys to the kingdom. Notice it says, whom rightly belongs to priesthood and the keys of the kingdom. Uh, Joseph Smith also played a primary role in the restoration of the gospel in the last days.
And some say that he, he was. An sign or like an sign upon the tops of the mountains. As we know, he was responsible for the beginning of the gathering of God's people in the last days. So a lot of people say this was Joseph Smith, the root of Jesse as Joseph Smith. It's also possible, a, as we remain, we, we always try to remain humble as we read scripture.
Unless a prophet of God has, um, elaborated, this also may be fulfilled by another prophet yet to come. Great. Let's go in that verse. Highlight the word enzyme or enin, however you wanna say it. 'cause we're not sure exactly, but I think it's enzyme. And here's the definition. According to the Webster's 1828 dictionary, and I put this to the outside of my scriptures, a flag or a banner.
A banner of colors, and then I love this. Any signal to assemble or to give notice, given what the prophet Joseph Smith was able to do, [00:40:00] he restored the gospel of Jesus Christ back on the earth. My question is then how is the gospel of Jesus Christ or the church an enzyme for the gathering of the people in the last days?
The uh, to answer that, let me cite section one 15 of the Doctrine covenants, and I'm going to go to verse four and five, and I think these verses might be relevant to your question, sister Hall. Okay. Verse four says, for thus shall my church be called in the last days, even the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
And before I continue, let me tell you what a huge blessing it is to have that name revealed from God, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. And whenever I go to the church's website, I'm thankful for it. And I type out Church of Jesus christ.org and I feel so blessed. That we get to use the name Jesus Christ.
We use it with great care. Uh, and, and we pause when we use it. We don't treat the name Jesus Christ like any other words. Um, but let me continue in verse five. Verily I say to you all, and here's a command form. A couple of commands arise and shine forth, that thy light may be a standard for the nations.
And so I'm gonna read verse six in a second. But notice it says A standard, a standard is the same as an inside or a flag, or it's similar. I wanna read verse six and that the gathering together upon the land of Zion, and I think we're going to discuss Zion in just a few minutes. And upon her stakes, Zion is a woman.
Notice that. Zion, her stakes. It's also a female known in Biblical Hebrew Zion. And her stakes may be for a defense and [00:42:00] for a refuge from the storm and from wrath when it shall be poured out without mixture upon the whole earth. But I think the key feature here is the church of Jesus Christ, of Latter Saints, and also that it will be a standard for, for the nations.
And how beautiful that in verse six it says that the gathering together upon the land, and then that goes back to our definition of an enzyme. Any signal to assemble or give notice? Love it. And I think that's what our prophet has done. Assemble come. We're so excited. Let's gather Israel. Love it. So very cool connection.
So thank you. Okay, well then here's what we're gonna do then, you guys, in the last two segments, we're gonna find out what questions a very specific man who's named in the doctrine and covenants the questions he had about Isaiah chapter 52, and we'll find out who he is and what questions he had in the next segment,
Segment 5
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we're still in section 113, and now we're in verse seven, and we are gonna circle the name of the man who got to ask this question. So go to verse seven, and Rebecca, call out his name, who got to ask this question? Elias Higby. All right. Here's some fun facts about Elias Higby. He was born October 23rd, 1795.
Happy birthday, Elias. In a couple of weeks, he married Sarah Elizabeth Ward in 1818. I think this, I love it. Hi Sarah. Then he was baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in the summer of 1832. Something neat about him is with John Coral. He was appointed as a church historian in 1838 in Far West.
That's when this is happening. This q and a, he was appointed a member of the Navu Temple Building Committee. He traveled, now this is neat. He traveled to Washington DC with Joseph Smith to seek redress for the Missouri grievances, and then he died in Navu at 47 years of age. He was so [00:44:00] young. He got a really rare opportunity.
He got to ask Joseph Smith, what do some of these things mean in Isaiah 52? So make sure you have your Old Testament open to Isaiah 52. We're gonna read the two verses in doctrine and covenant. Section 113 verses seven and eight, and Rebecca, will you read those for us? And let's find out what question he had.
Questions by Elias Higby, what is meant by the command in Isaiah 50. Second chapter, first verse, which sayeth put on thy strength, Oz Zion. And what people had Isaiah referenced to, he had reference to those whom God should call in the last days, who should hold the power of priesthood to bring again Zion and the redemption of Israel.
And to put on her strength is to put on the authority of the priesthood, which she, Zion has a right to by lineage. Also to return to that power which she had lost. Okay. That's a lot right there. Don, can you enlighten us a little bit on what that verse is telling us and teaching us about powers? And in fact, in Isaiah chapter 52, verse one, it specifically says to put on the garments, so will you teach us a little bit about this verse?
Yeah. Uh, I'll begin by telling you that Isaiah is filled with symbolism. I'd say there are hundreds of symbols in Isaiah. And let me also remind everyone of what Elder Orson, if Whitney taught us that God teaches with symbols, it is his favorite way of teaching, end of quote. And if you look at, uh, how many symbols are throughout the Old Testament and the Book of Mormon and the doctrine covenants, and Jesus used symbols during his ministry and also, um, every single ordinance except for one, maybe filled with symbolism.
For example, baptism has several symbols attached to it. Symbols are very powerful way to teach. And what, what, um, I, I, I'm, I'm very envious that Elias Hige, Higby [00:46:00] got to ask these questions, by the way, and I wish. I could ask some questions and have, have the prophet answer them. But, uh, so when we're talking about putting on your strength, Oz Zion, and then he gives the answer, the answer's pretty clear.
I mean, you have to read it two or three times. But first, I, I want to point out several things in verse eight. So he had reference to those whom God recalled in the last days. So this is the last day's passage. It speaks to those who would hold the power of priesthood to bring about again Zion. And that's being fulfilled in our day, our very day.
Uh, and also the redemption of Israel. And what does that mean? Several times in the history of the House of Israel. It has, um. Uh, Israel's people have been scattered and scattered again, and scattered again, and gathered and scattered again, and so in my opinion, the redemption of Israel as well, they'll be gathered.
But Joseph Smith made it clear, we're not just gathered, we're gathered to the temples. What is the object of God gathering people in any dispensation is to gather them to temples and to reveal the sacred ordinances of the temple. So in the temple, all ordinances, 100%. Not 90%, not 60%. 100% of ordinances are Jesus Christ focused and Jesus Christ.
Powered. And what I mean by that is, take for example, the Ordinance of Baptism immersion. We get this from Romans, chapter six. Immersion is the death of the candidate. And when they come forth from the waters, it's the the new creature that, the new creature in Christ and the resurrection, it looks forward to the [00:48:00] resurrection, but it's all Christ-centered, every ordinance.
And so here again, so that's the redemption of Israel. Let's, let's gather Israel from where they've been lost and scattered in the nations of the earth. Let's bring them together, uh, back to Jesus Christ and to his ordinances in the temple. So in this verse right here. 'cause I'm connecting all these things that you've said about the temple.
It says to bring again, Zion and you showed us, and it says right here that Zion is female. Yeah. To put on her strength is to put on the authority of the priesthood. It would be tempting to read that and think it only applied to men, but we're, tell me how this connects to women as well. Can we put on the authority of the priesthood?
Yes. So I don't know if I'm allowed to mention this, but in my book called 175, uh, symbols of the Temple and Their Meanings, I have five sections on women, and the, the, a couple of sections deal with the authority of the priesthood. And I quote some leading, uh, church authorities on women in the priesthood.
And I'll just sum up, this is so clear about the authority of the priesthood and, and women and the power of the priesthood and women. Uh, and you see it most clearly, at least I do in our temple. Don, I appreciate what you said because it beautifully backs up and supports our wonderful quote from President Nelson in his 2019 talk called Spiritual Treasures that talks about women and having the power of the priesthood and connecting to the temple that anytime we make covenants with God and we keep those covenants and we participate worthily in priesthood ordinances, we have direct access to the power of God.
So that's wonderful. Thank you so much. Anything else in that verse eight that you could share with us? Well, um, uh, uh, the, the, the word Zion is a very old Hebrew word, and I use three different lexicons. As a lot of people know. [00:50:00] One of the lexicons says the word Zion means fortress or castle, or something similar.
Hmm. And if you look at us building Zion in the last days, we're not building a physical castle or fortress. We're, we are building a spiritual fortress, a fortress against evil and against Satan and all of his angels who want to pull us from the fortress and pull us down and take us away from Zion. So when we speak of Zion, one, think of a female, a powerful female, but second, think of a spiritual fortress and as spiritually strong, because Jesus Christ is our savior and he's, he has all power.
Amen. And then we end verse eight, that Zion has a right to by lineage also to return to that power which she had lost, and how did she lose it? Um, she lost it through several series of aposty and departing from God and leaving God not keeping the commandments. So disobedience. And we have passage after passage that talks about that, and it reminds me since you're, you're, uh.
Audience really likes Hebrew words. There's a Hebrew word that's Shu and Sister Miller and I teach these things to our students. But Shu means to return, but it also means to repent. Mm-hmm. And Sister Hall, you and I are going to have a podcast about that. Yeah. Forthcoming. But return, it means to return to God.
And the suggestion there, or the implication is when we sin, we have removed ourselves from God. It's not that God has moved and he's run away and he is gone to another place in heaven. We have removed ourself from God, but when we repent, we return to God. Mm-hmm. The powerful Old Testament [00:52:00] concept. Don, I like that you just taught us that because as you were teaching when you were talking about that last part of verse eight, I thought, what a beautiful example of repentance.
And then you went right into the Hebrew word for repentance. So I think it's such a beautiful idea that especially when it says she had lost, she lost the privilege of the power, but she got it back. And a reminder to everybody that no matter where you are or where on, on the path that you can be redeemed, you can have that power be turned to you.
And because, like you said, it's all Jesus Christ focused. So thanks, Don. That was great. I really love how it says put on thy beautiful garments because it, it made me think about the story that we find in Genesis three where Adam and Eve are in the garden, right? Mm-hmm. And this is after they have partaken of the fruit and they're about to leave the garden and go to, you know, the, the, the, the world.
Okay. They're a fallen state, but before they leave, the Lord first makes for them a coat of skin. And in the Hebrew it says KA or ka or, mm-hmm. Which means a garment or coat of skin. And the word for skin here is, or, but there's also another Hebrew word that's a homophone to this same word. And if you remember, a homophone is, sounds exactly the same, but Right.
But it's spelled different. Mm-hmm. And it has a different meaning. So there's another word that's also pronounced or, and it's spelled with just one letter that's different, and that word or means light. Now here's what's interesting because there is an ancient Jewish legend that talks about this story of Adam and Eve, and it's told that this word for skin or was actually spelled incorrectly and that mm-hmm.
It should have been spelled with an all if, which would make the [00:54:00] word light. Yes. So really fascinating. Instead of the Lord giving Adam and Eve a coat of skin. The Lord made and gave them a garment of light. Now, you know whether this is true or not. I still love the imagery that this gives because Oh yeah.
I believe for us today, like this is true, um, when we as covenant keeping members of the church, male or female, right? We were talking about that when we keep our covenants, we receive light and we receive power. And especially when we wear the sacred temple garment, like we promise the Lord is clothing us with a garment of light cotton note or absolutely garment of light.
I'm so grateful you shared that, Rebecca. That is one of my favorite things about that word HOA phone right there. In fact, it's interesting when you look at the way the Hebrew, the letters, the difference between the two letters in my mind is just one little, just one little tail, just one little it leg that maybe got dropped off or so I, I agree.
And this idea that we put on. Our savior, Jesus Christ, are the most beautiful garments we could ever possibly wear. The garments of the holy priesthood, and I've said this many times on the podcast that we are done calling 'em underwear. They are the garments of the holy priesthood and they're the most beautiful things we could possibly wear.
So thank you for sharing that. Mm-hmm. What a great discussion. So Elias then had one more question, and so we're gonna find out what it was, and it almost seems a little bit scary. I'll show you what it is in the next segment.
Segment 6
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So in section 113, his last question, Elias wanted to know what something meant. Verse nine, and I'll go ahead and read that. Nine says, what are we to understand by Zion losing herself from the bands of her neck in the second [00:56:00] verse of Isaiah? All right, that is a little daunting to me. Like what? There are bands around her neck that's kind of scary.
So Don, will you read verse 10 for us and teach us? What are we talking about here? We are to understand that the scattered remnants are exhorted to return to the Lord. There's the word return again from when they have fallen, which if they do, the promise of the Lord is that he will speak to them or give them revelation.
See the sixth, seventh, and eighth verses the, and here, here's the definition. The bands of her neck are the curses of God upon her or the remnants of Israel in their scattered condition among the Gentiles. That seems awful that the bands of her neck are the curses of God upon her. How do we read that and not think that the God of the Old Testament is mad all the time?
Uh, a a actually, I, I hope I'm not mentioning this too much, but we also have a podcast coming on that, uh, is God mean? Mm-hmm. Uh, and I, I'm looking forward to that and showing people, no, he is not mean. He is the god of mercy, but he is also a god of judgment and justice. So here you have the image of bans of a slave.
Are we speaking of physical slavery? Maybe? Are we speaking of spiritual slavery? I think so, for sure. So. The idea of bands around her neck. We're picturing a woman with bands around her neck, but those will be removed because when Zion or or us return to the Lord. So it's a very powerful thing. It says the bands of her neck are the curses of God upon her.
Uh, no, God's not mean. He, he's just, he's full. He has perfect justice. But part of mercy is also, uh, uh, God executes mercy, [00:58:00] but he also executes justice and judgments. Wow. Thank you. Rebecca, do you have anything to add to that? Well, yeah, and I was thinking too, you know, it was talking about that these bans or bonds around her neck can be removed by returning.
Mm. I think about the gathering of Israel and. I think about when the prophet said the greatest work that's going on right now in this world is to gather Israel, and who are we gathering them to? We're gathering people to Jesus because when we gather people to Jesus Christ, he removes all bands, right? He removes all the things I like that, and, um, helps us to be made whole and mends things.
I was just, um, reading actually a conference talk this just this morning. It was Elder Gong's conference talk that he gave in April, and he tells about this story from Boyd k Packer and, uh, elder Packer was visiting this widow. This widow had just lost her husband, and she was telling him what happened.
And she said that before he lost his life, they got into this really bad argument, and the last words that her husband heard from her were these biting really. Nasty remarks. And she just said, I mean this, this is, this was her quote. For 50 years I've lived in hell, knowing that my last words he heard from my lips were that biting, spiteful remark.
Really like horrible, right? But then Elder Gong says this, and this is what's so powerful, he said, Jesus Christ helps us mend, reconcile, and make right our relationships on both sides of the veil. Jesus can heal grief, he can enable forgiveness. He can free us and others from things we or they have said or done.
And this is the thing that otherwise bind us [01:00:00] captive. And when I read that, when I read that, I've never really thought about how our relationships, our lack of forgiveness, or the things that we mess up with our relationships can become bounds, can become binding things to keep us captive. Mm-hmm. But he's right.
And um. I love that he talks about that Jesus Christ, and I don't know about you, but forgiveness is hard. But I love that he says Jesus can enable forgiveness and to enable means that he makes something possible. Yeah. Right. When we don't feel like that's possible to fix this, Jesus can make it possible.
Wow. So as we gather people to Christ, we're saying, come and be made free. Right. Come and and find Jesus. Well, and Rebecca, I love how you said, and I put this in my scriptures. Christ removes all bands. I. All of them that really hit me. So thank you so much. Wow. What a great way to end. Thank you, both of you.
Thank you. This was such a great episode. This was very informative. I'm so thankful we focused on section 113 on the symbols and what things mean because when we understand what they mean, like we said at the very beginning, it opens up a whole new way to read the scriptures and connect them to Jesus Christ.
So thank you to both of you. We're just gonna end this by saying, join us to study Hebrew. We're so excited. Join our class. Come and join Rebecca and Don on Wednesdays at noon, or watch the recorded versions and just dive into Hebrew with us, you guys, because next year Old Testament is gonna be so much fun and you're gonna love knowing these words.
So come to class. Yay. Yay. Thank you, you two. Thank you so much, Tammy. Thank you everyone.