The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
===
[00:00:00]
Segment 1
---
Listen to this. After the deaths of Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith, the Quincy Herald, which was an Illinois newspaper, wrote this about their murders. Quote, it is a deed that will not soon be forgotten. Such transactions outlive their actors. They go down to posterity on the page of history. They never die, and of all the dark atrocities to abstain the history of the state of Illinois, the assassination of the Smiths will also come up as the deepest and darkest stain of them all, unquote.
This week's come follow me. Lesson is Doctrine and Covenants, sections 1 35 and 1 36. And for this episode, we get the opportunity to spend our time studying Section 1 35, the deepest and darkest stain on our history that hopefully affects all of us today. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the come Follow Me lesson for the week, and we really dig into the scriptures together.
I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. If you are new to our study group, please follow the link in our description that will explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come Follow Me study. Just like my longtime listening friend Shauna Hooper from my institute class. Shauna, I love that you listen.
Thanks friend. Now another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends and it's a little bit different, but this week is so different 'cause I have one friend he's been on before. We love him so much. He has so many good things to share. Welcome John Fum. Hello. Hi. Hi Tammy.
Thanks for having me on. I'm excited to be here. Oh, I'm so happy to have you here. Now, by the way, you guys, if you are like, I remember that name, you should remember that name, because he was on the episode with us earlier this year, was such a great discussion about prayer. But I wanna remind you, he's also the author of a book called Spiritual Foundations, 10 Outta 10.
Highly recommend. Thank you. So I hope that that's been doing well for you. Have many people talked to you about the things you've written in there? Yeah, totally. And it's, [00:02:00] it's, it's always, it's always rewarding to know that, uh, you know, the book has helped people connect more to the savior. And that's, that's, that's the goal.
And so, uh, even if it, even if it was just one person, I, I, I'm serious when I say that, I know, um, it, it would've been worth it to write. And so just, uh, just happy, happy that it's being used for. Good. Well, it was, it was one person for sure, in my family. 'cause I shared it with a family member and it was very meaningful.
So. Well good. And a family member that was going through what you were going through in the book, which I think it, that's what I love about it, is you aren't scared to be transparent. That's. When I meet someone like that, I'm like, we will be friends. I just love people who are real and you are real in that book.
So thank you. Well, that's not everybody's style, so I'm glad you like it. Oh, I loved it, loved it. So John also kind of cool. Tell 'em what your job is. Uh, I'm a seminary teacher. I've been, uh, we're referred to as religious educators. I've been doing that for, since 2004. And currently I, uh, am a principal at Pleasant Grove High School Seminary.
And, um, we have two feeder junior highs in Linden, Utah, and they're in Pleasant Grove, Utah. And just great group of people, great teachers, great administrative assistants, and great students. I just love my job. Awesome. He's very good at it. So of course, because he's a seminary teacher, he's going to actually help me teach today.
So a couple of segments will be John's insights, which I love. That's why I asked him to do it, because the last time he taught, I learned so much from him. So, John, thanks for coming unprepared. You're welcome and thanks for having me on. Yeah, you're ready to do this? I'm ready. Okay. So if you guys wanna read his bio and see a picture of him, you can find them in our show notes, which are at lds living.com/sunday on Monday.
So everyone grab your scriptures and something to mark them with. And let's dive into Doctrine and covenant section 135. Okay. John, first things first, when you were just reading this section for the sake of reading it, what did the Holy Ghost teach you? Man? Unexpected. Okay. Unexpected insights. This time through with 1 35.
You can imagine, like I've been, I've been teaching the gospel full-time [00:04:00] as a job for a long time, so I've, I've obviously, uh, read and studied 1 35, uh, probably more than the normal person out there. Mm-hmm. And this time through was completely unique, unlike anything I'd before experienced. Wow. And, uh, I think it's because, well, I, I, I, I know it's because of the context.
In which we live and find ourselves today in the world. We have this so many disheartening and unsettling instances, uh, where people verbally and physically are attacked and sometimes even killed for their religious and political views. Mm-hmm. And, uh, it just occurred to me, I mean, I've always known this, but I I, I've never read 1 35, seeing it as I've always seen it as the assassination of a religious leader, but never the assassination of an actual presidential.
Candidate and the he, Joseph Smith, was the third party candidate of the 1844 presidential election. And so I started thinking about what I've been seeing these days, uh, on the news, uh, daily, um, just sort of this, kind of, these kinds of horrifying things and this antagonism and this, this anger and this angst around, uh, religious and political diversity and differences.
And so when I read this 1 35, all of a sudden it, in some ways it gave me an opportunity, almost became a template for how we can and potentially even should respond when, when a religious and or political leader we love is attacked and perhaps even killed. Mm-hmm. And so, uh, my experience in 1 35 this time provided me with some.
Comfort and some direction and some inspiration as I am right now, navigating some complex emotions I have about the what political, socio religious sort of environment we find ourselves in these days. And so I hope that today's episode, I hope that we can convey something that, uh, that, that helps our listeners find similar sort of [00:06:00] hope, comfort, uh, direction as they navigate these same kind of crazy realities we see around us.
Oh, that's so cool. I'm really looking forward to what you have to teach us because you put in a text message to me a little bit about what you just said and I went into my scriptures and bracketed off verses four and five because that's what you're gonna talk to us about later. So everyone bracket those two verses off.
John's not gonna share 'em right now 'cause I know we usually like them to share a scripture. But in another segment, he's gonna talk to us about those two verses, but title them a template for peace. Yeah. 'cause that's what stood out to me when you brought that up in, in community. I love it. Yeah. I love your title back and forth.
Yeah. So let's put that there and then we're gonna just put a little pin in it. 'cause we're gonna come back to those two verses in a couple more segments. But John, thank you for setting it up that way. I've never once read section 1 35 with the thought that it was a presidential candidate as well.
That's very cool. Yeah. So what a great way to read Section 1 35 with that new insight. Well, and can you imagine if that happened today? Like really try to imagine what that would be like on the World News. Our third party presidential candidate, who's also the leader of a A A church mm-hmm. Is assassinated.
It would be. It would. It would be crazy. It would be, yeah. Oh, it would be everywhere. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And then it kind of then goes back to. What was written in the Quincy Herald sort of makes sense then. Yeah. Have you started Absolutely. I was shook when I read that. Yes. That they, I mean, I just assumed everybody hated the Mormons.
I grew up in Missouri. I mean the, you know, you could kill us until 1978. I, that's right, that's right. So I just assumed nobody liked us. But to read those words, it just really, that's what really struck me in preparing for this, was that it wasn't just the LDS people that were so shocked by what had happened, but communities at large, like these, this whole, you know, state of Illinois wrote something about it.
So, yeah. Rightly so. Great answer. Thank you, John. Okay, so let's do this then. In the next segment, we're going to begin our study of section 135, and we're gonna dive into some words. And I sent John something in the mail that [00:08:00] has to do with verse one. We're gonna share what that is in the next segment.
Segment 2
---
All right, John, grab the package that I mailed to you. Okay. I'm excited. Can't wait for this bonus check. There go. I said most people has arrived. Most people open them up, but I made sure John did not open it. I even wrote on the outside of the envelope, I don't know if I, now I'm finding it difficult, so it would've been hard how I tried.
I was on like, do not open until we record. I'd love to think what postmaster general saw when he thought, when he said that. Yeah, right. It probably, probably scan what's in there. Probably scanned it. All right. Okay. Okay, got it. All right. So what I want you to do is describe what you are seeing. You just took it out of the package.
What is it? What I'm, what I'm seeing is an envelope, it looks like an an envelope to, with an invitation to like a wedding reception or something, and over the seam of the opening is a seal. Uh, one nice wax seal, uh, with the letter H on it. Yes. That's my last name, my last initial. So I chose the H Seal.
Okay. How fun. Open the letter. How would you open that letter? I have to break the seal. Do it. Um, and it's, it's, it's sealed. Well, good job. Thank you. Okay. Seal broken. Nice. Should I pull out the contents? Absolutely. Doctrine and covenants. 1 35 verse one is the note. Thank you. In fact, here's what you wanna know going into this verse.
Section 135 announces the death of Joseph and Hyrum, and the first 12 words tell us what this announcement will do. And John, will you read the first 12 words, please? That's it. Just the first 12 words to seal the testimony of this book and the book of Mormon. Okay. Will you please tell me quickly, why do they use the word seal right there in that verse?
What does [00:10:00] that have to do with me sealing this letter? Like, why would I give you a letter with a seal on it? Oh, that's a good question. You put me on the spot. I'm trying to think of, I know. I didn't even prep you for it. No, that's all right. Now I enjoy this to seal the testimony of this book and the book of Mormon.
Hmm. So the, the death of Joseph and Hyrum kind of being the, the, uh, object, sort of the comparison of the seal, their death are martyrdom. Hmm. Almost, almost, I would say almost when I think of, I'm looking at the seal on the envelope again, and it's got your name on it, right? Mm-hmm. Or at least your last initial.
It signifies you are the sender. It's officially from you. And almost like the death of Joseph and Hyrum become the official stamp, uh, of, I don't know, maybe the, the legitimacy, the divinity of their cause. Yes. Uh, God's, uh, use of them as instruments in his hands to accomplish his work. Um, that's what I got so far.
Keep going. You're exactly right. Feed, feed me some answers. No, you're exactly right. I, I like how you said that, you know, when you look up this definition of what it means to seal, and I love what one of this religious scholar once said, he wrote as men wrote the sacred book of the law back in the day, the role that was used would be sealed up.
Yeah. Partly as like security from being tampered with until the time came for its disclosure. Another way was partly as an attestation, like the seal of a King's letter. Right, right. That it's authentic authenticated. Yeah. Nothing else can be messed with this. And so we have this seal right here that as the seal, the testimony of the Book of Mormon.
And then after that we announced the martyrdom of Joseph Smith, the prophet, and Hyrum the patriarch right there. That's what it is. I really like this idea. Like I kept focusing on this concept of sealing and what it does and how it sealed this testimony of the Book of Mormon and the doctrine and covenants and how something so horrific.[00:12:00]
They would use that to seal as like a statement of proof. Yeah. And that they gave their lives for it. Could there be a greater seal on anything than to die for a cause? Wonderful point. Like whether you believe what they said or not, their death does signify that they believed wholeheartedly that what they were involved in was the will of God.
And so you can disagree with that. Yeah, but I mean, their death was the seal of the authenticity of their belief around this. And I think that's so powerful. More powerful than someone, I don't know. I just, that to me was like, wow, that is a seal. Absolutely. And so we have this section right here, section 1 35, and I thought this was really interesting that when we talk about this section before we're diving really into it, what you wanna know is Section 1 35 was quickly added to the 1844 Doctrine and covenants.
So it was about ready to be published. And then this happened. And so last minute they're like, quick, we wanna add this section in as a seal or as a way to end the doctrine and covenants. Yeah. I actually have pictures to show you, John. This is so neat. I wanna see it's pictures of the actual 1844 doctrine and covenants.
And because the space was so limited, they didn't have, they couldn't add another page. So the, the printing is actually smaller with much closer spacing to fit the announcement of the martyrdom in the final two pages of the book. So you can see right there. That's cool. Yeah. Isn't that just tiny? And if you make it, crammed it in there, yeah.
You've got section 1 34, the very end of 1 34. Above it. You can see the letters are bigger. The, the spacing. Spacing. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Isn't that so cool? That's a cool document. I really like that the text of the announcement is unattributed. No one is exactly sure who wrote it. It does say in here that John Taylor wrote it, which is a possibility.
Some people are like, but he [00:14:00] was also recovering at the time that it was written, right? They say he was the one who wrote it because he was also the publisher and printer of the 1844 Doctrine and Covenants. But a couple of other things that I thought was cool, and this stood out to me when I was prepping.
This is what the Holy Ghost taught me because John Taylor and Willard Richards are spoken of in third person. So they are thinking, well, maybe they didn't write it then. They think maybe WW Phelps and Parley p Prat helped write it. They also attribute Eliza R Snow with helping write it because there is a part of a poem that she wrote that is found.
The wording of that poem is found in verse three. So they think that maybe she helped contribute to the overall writing of Section 135, and what I love is. I think it's fantastic that it may have been a group effort because I want all my friends to speak at my funeral. Totally, totally. I don't want one person writing about me.
I love the idea that so many people contributed and helped to write it, and then when you read through Section 1 35, the verbiage of it just, it's even more beautiful to me to think that his friends contributed to writing Section 135. What are your thoughts? Tell me anything you're thinking certainly makes a lot more sense.
Yeah, I've, you know, the, the whole original sort of version of this, that elder, elder Taylor, John Taylor wrote it. You know, obviously our historical research shows us that there's probably more like this group, this group approach, like you said, everyone involved and everyone that knew Joseph. I mean, I, I, I love it for the same reasons.
You love it, Tammy. It's, these are his friends. These are the people that love him. These are the things they wanted, eulogized about him and remembered about him. And so, yeah, it's a beautiful thing to me to think of it that way. I like how you said that they are the things they wanted eulogized about him.
So now when you read section 1 35, it's a whole new lens to think of his friends writing it. Totally. And what they wanted us to know, it wasn't just John Taylor in his room by himself. Yeah, no like thing maybe, maybe, maybe it goes around from person to person. They're like, add this, add that. Maybe they're sitting in the same room together, you know, talking about this later saying I want this set and John Taylor's scribe or you know, whatever the case might be.
[00:16:00] But it is pretty beautiful to think of your friends all get together and they're gonna write Tammy's eulogy. That'd be beautiful. Yes ladies, you know who you are and you better make it sound good. That's all I'm saying. And I will tell you this, all the information that John and I are sharing today are coming from the Joseph Smith papers, which we are big fans of.
So make sure you check out our show notes 'cause we're gonna have links in there. Um, or you the page numbers where you can find the information in Joseph Smith papers. So check that out. We loved studying with that. Alright, so that is our introduction. And I loved that intro of Section 135. So in the next segment we wanna find out who was with Joseph and Erman Carthage and how they even ended up there.
We'll do that next.
Segment 3
---
Why in the world were these men in Carthage? So here's a little bit of information we wanna know. On June 24th, 1844, Joseph Smith and others journeyed from Navu to Carthage. After a charge, they'd committed a riot during the destruction of a Navu expose's press. Now following the next day, Joseph Smith and 14 other men appeared at a hearing on the riot charge, but they were released on bail.
But the same day, Joseph Smith and Hyrum were arrested for charges of treason, which was very clever on the part of those arresting him because treason was an unbearable offense. So they were committed to the Hancock County Jail in Carthage, where they were to remain in custody until a formal hearing when the charge could be held.
Now on the night of June 25th through the 26th, sixth Men. We're with them in Carthage Jail. These are the six men, and I wanna say their names. John P. Green, Steven Markham, Dan Jones, Lorenzo d Watson, John s Fulmer, and Wall Southwick. They stayed in Carthage jail with Joseph. Hyrum, John Taylor and Willard Richards, now Fulmer, John s Fulmer and Dan Jones.
And then we have Stephen Markham. They stayed the night of the [00:18:00] 26th into the 27th, and then they left at different times throughout the day. But Stephen Markham left around one 30 on the 27th in the afternoon to get tobacco and a pipe to help settle the stomach of Willard Richards, who was very ill. And when he came back, he found that he was surrounded by a mob and he was escorted out of Carthage.
And it even writes in the Josephs of papers, he was escorted at the points of their bayonets. Hmm. Now I wanna focus for a second on this. 'cause a lot of times people will bring up the idea of, well, wait a minute, I thought they weren't allowed to smoke. And why is he getting, you know, tobacco for his pipe and he had a stomach ache.
And I think that is a great question. My students would for sure wanna know that. Yeah. And so how would you even answer that, John? Well, I would say, uh, yeah, I mean, when the word of wisdom was, uh, uh, introduced in 1833, it was not it, it was just that it was a word of wisdom. It was a, a health recommendation.
It wasn't a commandment. Uh, we know that it, it really didn't become word of wisdom sort of restrictive as we know it today for almost a hundred years. I mean, you, you, you can make an argument for, from 1833 to 1933, uh, the word of wisdom was kind of, you know, it was still just sort of a, a recommendation for, uh, the Saints until it really became enforced.
Uh, in order to, to go to the temple, I believe in 1912 was the first time or 21, it was on the temple, recommended interviews. But even after that, it continued as a sort of some saints. So look, absolutely, I mean, ge Jesus drank wine. It was a, if you, if you read the, the, the, the, the explanation is in section 89 verse four, where it says, I, I'm, I'm giving you this word of wisdom now because of the evils that exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the latter days.
And we live in that time. And so the word of wisdom is very context specific to our day. Mm. And, um, it, it just, it just didn't, it was, it was not what it is today. Back at the time of Joseph Smith, they had, they drank wine for the sacrament early on in the church. Uh, they even had [00:20:00] wine, uh, I believe at least one time in Carthage to, to settle their nerves.
And so it just was a different time in a different context. And the word of wisdom was not the commandment back then that we have as a church today. Amen. That was a perfect answer. You are 100% right. That is awesome. And that's exactly how I would've explained it too, is I love that it starts out with just, it was a word of wisdom.
Yeah. But how brilliant is God. I mean, we all, we obviously know that, but you're so grateful now he, yeah, right. We live in a time where it's absolutely necessary. So Totally. Thank you heavenly father for being so wise. Absolutely. A hundred percent. So that is a little bit of background leading up to now they're in Carthage, it's one 30 in the afternoon.
He's escorted at the point of bayonets. John hit it. Tell us what's going on now at this point in Carthage. Right. So now it's, it's, it's the waiting game, right? It's a, it is sort of a hot afternoon sometime around five o'clock that afternoon. It was a Thursday. I know. I Googled that. I don't know if that was a historical, in the historical records or not, but I was like, what day was this?
And I love that you said it was hot, by the way, because being from Missouri, let me tell you about the humidity, dude. I was reading no air conditioning. Yeah. Georgia, Missouri. Same thing. You know, you know, boy. Oh, it's real. In an upper room of a, of a stone building, all the hot air rising. Can you imagine?
Yeah. Brutal. Okay, so they're in this room, in this jail room, minimum security. They had been moved to this room, right, because of their, their good behavior and, and they weren't seen as a threat. And so it's a very minimal secure, minimally secure room. Second floor of this, of the, the, the jailhouse there in Hancock County in Carthage, a mob swarm swarms the, the prison at around five.
Um. I think it's kind of a consensus from what I've read and what I've heard, that this mob was basically allowed through any sort of resistance, was a feigned resistance. And it was even, again, remember this is a presidential candidate up in that room along with being a, a religious leader. And there were plenty of [00:22:00] politics involved in Joseph's life and in his affairs leading up to this point.
Even like, uh, um, guarantees from the governor that he would be protected or, uh, he could not, from the two existing presidential candidates, he could not get from either of them the guarantee that they would be protected as members of the church. That he couldn't get a guarantee of religious freedom and protection, if you can imagine that in America.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so that was one of the main reasons why he was running as a third party candidate. Well, anyway, they, people did not like his political or religious views. They rush the, the, the prison. They, uh, try to barge through the door up there where they are. So Willow Richards was a, was a Girthy fellow, they say.
And, uh, large man. Yeah, a large man. So not really accurate. The church video I saw he was quite slim. But anyway, when you look up pictures of him, you're like, oh, he's a large, he's a big guy. Hey, that's not what I saw in the video. Yeah. But anyway, a little different. But it's important to note, by the way, it's, we're not making fun of him.
'cause there's an important part of the story to him because he, he got behind that door. Yeah. And along with Will Willow Richards, along with John Taylor, Joseph Smith, and Hyrum, that door wasn't moving. No. And so the mob goes to break it down and they're like, oh, it's not. It's not moving, which is a great sort of initial deterrent.
But then they start shooting through the door. But there was also a mob outside shooting up through the window. So bullets are just coming into this room at all angles. And the first, the first ball or bullet that comes through the door hits hira, famously right there in the left side of the face, uh, you know, next to his nose.
And that's what causes Hyrum to die. He falls over. He dies. Joseph responds. He has a revolver on him that was given to him by a friend earlier. He, he sticks it out through sort of the crack of the door and just fires off as many rounds as he can. There were two or three misfires of this six shooter.
Mm-hmm. But, uh, I was, I was listening recently to a, to a discussion about this and, uh, you know, they, they attribute maybe, uh, the salvation of John Taylor and Willard Richards eventually, you know, at, by the end of all [00:24:00] this, to Joseph firing out the door like that, which would've scared them. No one wants to die.
And at this point, wow. They didn't, they didn't come for that. They thought this was just shooting fish in a barrel. The fish weren't supposed to shoot back. Right. And so that was a great deterrent. Um, so well after hiring dies, Joseph sees this, he, he attempts to jump out of that famous second story window, and of course there's a mob outside and he's shot multiple times, uh, falls to his death to the ground by this well.
And, um, the accounts show that even after his death, they presume he was dead when he hit the ground. But even so, the, the mob picks him up basically and props him up against the well and shoots him multiple times more. It's just a hor And I wanna just, just think, again, we, we've heard this story so much.
I, I, we just tend to, I don't, I don't know, not realize how intense and horrifying and un-American and mm-hmm. This event was, this man was murdered because of his political, his political and religious views differed from mainstream America. I mean, that, that's, that's, that's the short of it. Yeah. That blows me away, man.
Anyway, John Taylor, uh, he, he tried to jump outta the window. We know he was shot multiple times. He fell back. This was before Joseph. I got my sequence outta order, but, uh, John Taylor was shot multiple times and he rolled under the bed for protection. It was after that that Joseph, uh, tried to jump and Will and Richards in all this amazingly, wasn't hit by a single bullet or ball.
I mean, that, that, that is really pretty crazy. Yeah. You think of just bullets coming from every direction, just somehow. It's amazing. It's amazing. So I'll, I'll tell you, this is one of my favorite stories that I learned when I was studying this. Yeah. So in Joseph Smith papers. This is so cool. Yeah. He was not hit by a single bullet at all.
And like we said, he's a big guy. He, yeah. You would've thought at least one bullet would've hit him. Right. Exactly. Okay. This [00:26:00] is so amazing. So this is what it says in the Joseph of Papers. In 1861, Brigham Young recall a promise that Joseph Smith made to Willard Richards in reference to special clothing that Richard had been given as part of a temple related ordinance called the Endowment.
According to Brigham Young, Joseph Smith said this to Willard Richards Willard. Never go without this garment on your body for you will stand where the balls will fly around you. Like hail and men will fall dead by your side. If you will never part with this garment there never shall a ball injure you.
It's so beautiful. Is that the coolest? I loved that. It's so cool. I made all my kids hear that story. I'm like, you guys get a load of this. I mean, that's real, guys. He literally said that before this event happened and, and then this is the result. It it's just, it's amazing. That's wonderful. Yeah. Nothing happened to 'em.
Oh, so good. Well, what a, what a beautiful sort of allusion to the, just sort of the, the promises that come to all of us as we are faithful to our temple covenants. Right. And, um, and, and, and not that no bad thing will ever happen to us, but those promises are real. Mm-hmm. And the promise given to Willard Richards, you know, I mean, it, it was real.
And so, uh, Willow Richards not a single shot. John Taylor hit many times. And so, like we mentioned earlier, he had to stay in Carthage days after, uh, as he convalesced, right? Or, or in Hancock County. I'm not sure exactly where, but. Uh, but Willard Richards, uh, he ended up, uh, writing a, a, a letter after the attack, uh, to the Illinois Governor Thomas Ford and to others.
And he informed them all in that letter that Joseph and Hyrum had been murdered. And, uh, the following day, Richards went to Navu, uh, in a company with a group of saints who took the bodies of Joseph and Hyrum back to Navu for burial. Uh, and John Taylor obviously was just left behind to, to get better before he could be transported.
But it is just a, just a horrifying day in American history. [00:28:00] Um, yeah. And it is the seal of Joseph and RA's efforts to restore the New Testament Church of Christ back to Earth. Absolutely. In fact, let's end this segment with reading the rest of verse one and then verse two. That's good. And we'll pick it up after we read.
In fact, let's just read verse one and two. It's so good. Will you read that for us, John? Gotcha. To seal the testimony of this book and the Boa Mormon, we announced the martyrdom of Joseph Smith, the prophet and Hyrum Smith, the patriarch. They were shot in Carthage jail on the 27th of June, 1844, about 5:00 PM by an armed mob painted black of from 150 to 200 persons.
Hyrum was shot first and fell calmly. Exclaiming, I'm a dead man. Joseph leaped from the window and was shot dead in the attempt exclaiming, oh Lord, my God. They were both shot after they were dead in a brutal manner, and both received four balls. John Taylor and Willard Richards, two of the 12 were the only persons in the room at the time.
The former was wounded in a savage manner with four balls, but has since recovered the latter through the providence of God, escaped without even a hole in his robe. Very cool. Thank you, John. Well, that is such a fun discussion of just those verses and what, what brought them there and how it all sh how it all played out.
Totally. So what we'll do is in the next segment then John is gonna teach us about specifically verse three, um, and what he had to say about this part of the eulogy that he called written by friends. We'll do that next.
Segment 4
---
We are in section 1 35 still, and let's do verse three and I'm gonna read it and then John, will you teach us about it? Yes, here we go. Joseph Smith, the prophet and sear of the Lord has done more save Jesus only for the salvation of men [00:30:00] in this world than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of 20 years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God and has been the means of publishing it on two continents, has sent the fullness of the everlasting Gospel, which it contained to the four quarters of the Earth, and has brought forth the revelations and commandments, which composed this book of Doctrine and covenants and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men, gathered many thousands of the Latter Day Saints.
Founded a great city and left a fame and a name that cannot be slain. He lived great and he died great in the eyes of God and his people. And like most of the Lord's anointed in ancient times has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood. And so has his brother Hyrum. In life, they were not divided and in death they were not separated.
Hmm. Beautiful. Oh, I can't wait to learn from you. Poetic even. Yes. Um, okay. In fact, that's part of the poetry in life. They were, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's part, that's the line from the poem, right? In life they were not separated. Oh, yes. Okay. That's so beautiful. So, um, okay. So I think to, before we unpack this, it's important to understand that in the presentation and sort of the heading of this section in the Doctrine and Covenants, it is referred to as an announcement, a document, not a revelation.
Mm. So that's an important distinction for me. Okay. Tell me why this is, this is not intended to be, uh, every word of this is like a, uh, some, some sort of God revealed truth. This is in fact a eulogy. I mean, it's a eulogy. Uh, it's announcing the death of Joseph. Joseph, and it's eulogizing Joseph. And as is the nature of, uh, or, or sort of the, yeah, the nature of a eulogy.
They're going to focus on this person's positive, most impressive contributions to humanity. That's what a eulogy [00:32:00] is. We praise them. And so I've heard people take. This particular verse to task just like, oh, more than anyone other than Jesus. Oh, what a, what a sort of sort of exaggerated, arrogant claim.
Okay, so here's my thought. Okay? This is a eulogy written by his friends. All right? Can you imagine being at somebody's funeral and they're eulogizing them and they're like, halfway through, we're done. And you raise your hand and say, yeah, yeah, yeah, but let's talk about the negative things that Bill did and the mistakes Bill made.
No one does that, right? No one does that. Okay? First of all, this isn't a revelation. It wasn't never meant to be. This is a beautiful eulogizing of Joseph Smith and his contributions and the positive things he did. Yeah, so look, Joseph's focus was always. To exalt the name of Jesus Christ. Mm-hmm. That's what this man wanted to do.
His in from his first vision, even before his first vision till the day he died. We have a, a, an an amazing American citizen who's trying to run for president, who wants to make Jesus Christ the center of our nation of our world, and someone's gonna complain about a verse that to them is too hyperbolic in a eulogy, which is by nature, exaggerated and hyperbolic.
Right? Mm-hmm. I know my eulogy better be, or there won't be much to say, so they're gonna have to use lots of exaggeration. But, so that's my point is like, first this is a eulogy. If you have problems, you think it's like too, too, I don't know, exaggerated. I, I wanna say who does that, first of all. But you like it, you don't like it?
That I don't really care personally, I love this verse because I. It stands as sort of an official calling out of the world of anyone who encounters Joseph Smith and his story, [00:34:00] and it challenges them. These claims challenge us to find out for ourselves whether or not how accurate they are. Did he really, you know, do more for the hu for, for the salvation of humanity than than second only to Jesus Christ?
Is that accurate or not? A newsflash? The only way anyone's gonna ascertain the accuracy of that claim is if they go to God in the spirit of humility and openness, and prayer, and meditation and contemplation. And ask is Joseph Smith and his story and what he claimed, is it true? Are you, God, the origin of the Joseph Smith story?
I mean, that's the only way you're gonna find out if, if we think for a minute. I like that, that we can ascertain the legitimacy or accuracy of this, these bold claims in verse three about Joseph's contributions. Mm-hmm. If we think we can sort of get the final assessment by referencing only historical ex extent historical records.
First of all, any historian will tell you that every written history is biased, either too much for or against a particular person or an event or whatever the case is true. No one's ever going to reach the truth of Joseph Smith, his calling his work without going to God and asking God to reveal it to them through the power of the Holy Ghost.
That is it. If you wanna know the truth about Joseph Smith, you are gonna have to go to the source of all truth to him who called himself truth. Find out for yourself, and I want to emphasize something here, Tammy. Cool. Okay. I wanna add my witness here. I want to emphasize that I have done this. Okay. I have not always believed in the Joseph Smith story.
I haven't always believed in the claims about Joseph Smith in the authenticity or truthfulness of the [00:36:00] Book of Mormon. But when I was a young man, specifically 18 years old, I finally, first of all read the Book of Mormon. That was sort of the, the, the, the, the vehicle that took me to a place of witness and testimony.
I read that book first, and I went to God, and I asked him in openness, and I, I wanna emphasize that I was ready for a no answer. I was ready for, mm-hmm. No, he's a deceiver. No, he's a charlatan. No, he's inspired of the devil. I was ready for that. I was open for it. All I wanted to know was, is this whole narrative true?
Okay. And I received a witness that is undeniable. I just want people to know this. It is undeniable, perfectly unique and spiritual in nature. Unlike anything I've ever before experienced. I can tell you exactly where I was. I can't really tell you exactly how I felt because that is the nature of spiritual phenomena.
They're ineffable, inexplicable in, in so many ways, but it forever transformed me. And so in the light of the witness, I have received the accuracy of the claims. In verse three, mean very little to me. This is a eulogy written by his friends, and they're gonna exaggerate, maybe not exaggerate, but they're gonna emphasize his amazing contributions to humanity.
And I can speak for myself in saying were it not for Joseph Smith and what he did, I would not be connected to my savior Jesus Christ the way I am. And that's my witness. And I want people to know that I have done this myself and experienced this by myself. I'm not a product of cultural or social manipulation or whatever.
I, I receive this independent of any earthly source, and it has changed my life forever. And so I verse three, and I say, amen, uh, verse that, uh, what other people might, [00:38:00] you know, have a problem with for various reasons. I will Amen. What you just taught us. Wow. Thank you, John, for sharing that because I wrote down so many things I wrote next to verse three to take the challenge to ask, to get a confirmation.
I love how you said you asked in openness. Yeah. Like that is, that's something we often overlook when we're asking for answers. Agreed. Yeah. Like we forget to ask like whatever it is I'll do or I'll believe like, but the amount of humility it takes to ask in openness, yeah. Is. Powerful and for you to be able to bear such a strong, solid testimony like that is, I will just be a second witness to what John said because I've done the same thing.
I have taken the challenge and, and it, and it took me a long time, like I had to wait almost 10 years because I asked for a witness on my mission and I didn't get it. And I've shared this story before, but I was so angry that I didn't get it, but I had to get up and put on a skirt and get back on my mission the next day.
And so I just went back to work. But I remember it wasn't until I was 10 years later teaching seminary and it was church history year. And I got my witness when I was talking to my students, reading from the scriptures. And I, like you said, I can remember where I was, but I can't describe the feeling, but I knew it was true.
And I remember looking at my students sobbing, saying This really happened. Joseph Smith really saw what he said he saw, and I can't deny it. And the kids looked at me and they were just kinda like, duh, we've always known that. And I'm like, I haven't I, it took me so long to get that testimony. So anyone out there who's still waiting, just yes.
Hang on. Yes. That's what I love about how the Lord works because I worked so hard for that testimony that I cannot deny it. Yes. And when I read verse three, the beauty of it is, you're right. The, as the, the As assertion what they're like making, the assertion they're making about Joseph seems like you said, so huge and grandiose.
Yeah. Yeah. But then when you break it down in my brain, I'm [00:40:00] doing a check mark on everything going. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. He did that. He did that. Yes. Yes. Boy, that, that what he did live great. Yeah. And he died. Great. And so I, I love that my testimony can confirm verse three. And, and like you said, for people who have issues, just take the challenge.
That is what a great, great way to approach that verse. Totally. Well, we, we, we, we so often pray for confirmation. We even say that, right? Mm-hmm. And then you have this problem called confirmation bias. Yes. And so in our attempts to pray for confirmation, let's strive to pray for confirmation of what is true.
Mm-hmm. So not necessarily what we want to be true. Right. Lord, I've been exposed to this particular story. Tell me if it is true or not true. That's I'm gonna act on truth. Yes. And please, I'm, I'm coming to you in the spirit of openness and humility. I just need to know, and I love your point, Tammy, that for some people it happens quickly.
For me, it was months. For you, it was years. How long are you willing to sacrifice? What are we willing to sacrifice in order to actually know for ourselves and stop being like in James chapter one, right? Like a ship without a rudder or a sail and just wherever the wind of our, of our, you know, current social climate blows.
That's the way we go. He is a prophet. Oh, he is not a prophet. Oh, the church is true. No, it's not true. Mm-hmm. Oh, the word of wisdom is this. No, it's that, you know, until we learn how to find out for ourselves. The truthfulness of these things through going to the source of all truth, we're just gonna be like, that ship that's just tossed, tossed back and forth.
Oh, absolutely. And, and you see the tossing so prevalent today with Oh, you see it all the time. Loved ones, and, and Yep. People in your ward and you just wanna like, let's just breathe. Can we all just like, let's just really talk about the issues and, and take the challenge, take the test. It's, yeah. I, like, I remember when a friend said to me, well, you don't know what I know about Joseph.
And I was like, Hmm, [00:42:00] pretty sure I do. Let's talk about it. But she didn't wanna talk about it and Right. And I thought, no, come on, we can work through this. So I, I, I wanna say sometimes, and I never wanna come across like condescending, but I, but this is what comes to me when people are like, oh, I found out, look, did you know I read something about Joseph?
He's not a prophet. And my first response, first of all, it aches inside. Mm-hmm. And, and I want to go, oh. You've, you've, you've never received a witness. Yeah. I mean, literally they haven't period. 'cause had they received and experienced and lived what I, what you have in all reality lived. Yeah. There is no such feeling or doubt in your heart or your mind, regardless of all the imperfections and things.
Of course, that Joseph got wrong. Yes. As an un uneducated frontiers boy. Yeah. You know, who's just, who's just said, Hey, start the church, but had no blueprints. My goodness. He got some things wrong, but God, he is God's instrument and because of him think the God of heaven for him because of him. We are here today and knowing what we know.
I like how you just said, thank the God in heaven for him. You know right here, section 1 35, we have this seal and it's the martyrdom of these men that have sealed the testimony of the Book of Mormon and the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And then verse three, I don't think it's hyperbolic enough. I think when it comes to you, right?
Lemme write some more. You're like, I wanna keep writing. I got some addition. I got some addition. Don't, don't You wanna know how many things they had to cut to fit it on that page in a half? I'm curious to know like maybe it's, maybe it was longer. We don't really know, but well said. Yeah. I think that his friends may have been like, there might be more we need to say.
So John, thank you so much for going through verse three with us. I love that you even, you've even titled it The eulogy for me. And so that is beautiful. Okay, well that's just verse three. You guys we're in for such a treat because now in the next segment we are gonna go over verses four and five, which we've labeled a template for peace.
And John's gonna tell us what he means by that. [00:44:00] We'll do that next.
Segment 5
---
We're in section 1 35. We've bracketed off verses four and five and we've called it a template for peace. So I'm gonna read both of these verses and John's gonna tell us what he means by calling these two verses a template of peace. Here we go. When Joseph went to Carthage to deliver himself up to the PRETENDED requirements of the law, two or three days previous to his assassination, he said, I'm going like a lamb to the slaughter, but I am calm as a summer's morning.
I have a conscience void of offense towards God and towards all men. I shall die innocent and it shall yet be said of me. He was murdered in cold blood. The same morning after Hyrum had made ready to go, shall it be said to the slaughter? Yes. For So it was, he read the following paragraph near the close of the 12th chapter of Ether in the Book of Mormon and turned down the leaf upon it.
And it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord that he would give unto the Gentiles grace that they might have charity. And it came to pass that the Lord said unto me, if they have not charity, it matter if not unto thee, thou has been faithful. Wherefore, thy garments shall be made clean. And because thou has seen thy weakness, thou shall be made strong even unto the sitting down on the place which I have prepared in the mansions of my father.
And now I bid farewell into the Gentiles ye and also into my brethren, whom I love until we shall meet before the judgment seat of Christ, where all men shall know that my garments are not spotted with your blood. The testators are now dead and their testament is in force. That's verses four and five. I always made my students go to that, um, page in their book of Mormon.
Yeah. And I made 'em fold it down halfway. Yeah. So I'd always remember that that's the page that high room folded down. Yeah. That's great. Teach us about these two verses E through 12, 36, 37. Man, these are, I don't [00:46:00] know, I don't even know the, the word a part of me wants to say these verses are chilling.
Verse four. Imagine going, Joseph was clearly aware he was going to die. Yeah. Like, like that's, that's pretty crazy. I just want you to think about that. Like again, what would we sacrifice for the truth for our beliefs? You know what I mean? And here he is going into a context where he's pretty much convinced.
He is like, well, here I go, golly, this is, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go get murdered by a bunch of people who hate me to the point they wanna kill me because of my religious and political views. And I'm just gonna go. I'm gonna go because, because there's such a ruckus. Well, he knew that, you know, there, there were some other things going on, you know, maybe that saints in Navi would maybe be, you know, um, in danger if he didn't show up and things like that.
And, you know, he's just like, I'm just gonna go and, and this is it for me. And he is as calm as a summer's morning. Okay. So, yeah, my question that came to my mind was, uh, I'm going like a lamb to the slaughter, but I'm as calm as s morning. What is required in terms of lifestyle and discipleship for us to each live with a conscience void of offense towards God and towards all men, because that is the source of his peace.
In this particular moment, he has a conscience void of offense towards God and toward all men. I read that I just can't, I I tend to be hard on myself. I'm sure a lot of our listeners can relate to that. I, I, um, lately I've, I've unpacked something, I'm, I'm, I'm unpacking something subconsciously in my brain.
I've identified that often when I'm alone with my thoughts and I'm just pondering and meditating, I feel this inclination to always say, I'm sorry to God, [00:48:00] and I'm not sure why. I'm like, well, did I do something horrible in my sleep last night? Did I murder someone without knowing? Like, why is this, and is that even healthy?
You know what I mean? Like, is it just a co, is it just a product of scrupulosity or toxic perfectionism? What's, what's seeping in back there? Hmm. Um, and so I, I, I read this from Joseph and I feel it. Righteous envy. I feel holy envy. Yeah. To just be as calm in your, with your standing with God just perfectly, perfectly at ease with a conscience, void of offense toward God.
What's the key? I, I think the key is in verse five, and it is charity, right? Yeah. Isn't it beautiful? It's just like, God, can't you just give these people charity? Can't you just give these people charity? If you gave 'em charity, then they would see me as you see me. We would see each other as you see us, and we would see eye to eye and we'd come together in the unity of faith.
And, and, and we would, we would create thy kingdom here on earth and we would bring usher in thy son, you know, back to to earth. And charity is the key. My patriarchal blessing, counsels me, warns me even. To understand and to recognize that everyone on earth is a son or daughter of God and has good in them.
Everyone has good in them, everyone. There are no exceptions to what I just said. And, um, I have prayed and sometimes I have the clarity that I've been pretty much commanded to try to acquire in my life through my patriarchal blessing. Other times I don't, and I just don't feel the peace that Joseph does.
And so I think these verses become a template for peace because they emphasize this, this focus of Joseph's and Hi rooms on charity. Okay, on charity and seeing others the way that God sees them. There's, there's some, uh, scriptures that [00:50:00] come to my mind. Uh, and then I, I'd like to share a couple things that Joseph said about this.
Uh, yeah, a little in a minute, but, um, often quoted, okay, Matthew 5 44 through 47. All right. Again, these become so quoted that sometimes they lose their meaning. We don't really understand or, or feel or experience the profundity, the depth of these. But consider these verses uh, in your personal application.
Daily application. How well do I do this? Okay, this is Jesus speaking. Matthew 5 44 through 47. He says, but I say to you, love your enemies. Love them. Bless them. That curse you, do good to them, that hate you. Pray for them. Which despitefully use you and persecute you. I ask myself and I get emotional 'cause I feel so, I feel so far off the mark.
In so many ways because I'm naturally sort of a shocker, a heated person, you know what I mean? Like, I'm just a passionate person. You know what I mean? There you go. So it doesn't take much to like, to get me fired up, you know? And, and I, I've, I've worked on that my whole life and I'll work on it till I die.
And, um, these are not my first reactions to tho to my enemies, to those who curse me, to those who hate me, to those who despitefully use me to those who persecute me. My first response is not love. My first response is not praying for them, hoping for them. Jesus says, do this, that you may be the children of your father, which is in heaven.
And then this explanation for he makes his son rise on the evil end, on the good. He sends rain on the just and the unjust. Because if you love them, which love you, what reward do you have? Like, okay, so you love people that love you, but big what? That's natural. The Republicans do the same, he says, [00:52:00] okay.
Mm-hmm. If you salute only your brethren or those who are your friends, what are you doing more than any other person? Don't even the publicans do that. Yeah. Jesus lived this, Joseph lived this. The purpose of a prophet is to point us to the savior. And Joseph in his life pointed us to the savior. And in this moment, perhaps more than any other moment of his life, he's going like a lamb to the slaughter.
And he's just like, it's okay. And you know, I love everybody and I would just wish everyone loved everyone back. Mm-hmm. It reminds me of Jesus on the cross, right? Yeah, absolutely. He's being murdered. Mm-hmm. And he's like, God, please, please, please don't hold this against them. Please don't hold this against them.
And again, I start analyzing my own life and, and I can, I can feel kind of overwhelmed and insufficient and small when it comes to this, but I'm trying, I love Elder Stevenson's talk in this last conference about being a peacemaker, sort of a great follow up to President Nelson's talk. Absolutely. I think another key, if you look at, I'm, I'm just gonna read the last sentence, the last few words of 1 35 verse seven, and it just says, uh, you know that the blood of Joseph and Hyron will, will, will, will call out for justice until he, the Lord avenges the blood, uh, uh, on the Earth.
And so judgment is god's, it's, it's God's leave all talk and considerations of judgment and sort of, sort of like getting back at that. We've just gotta let go of all that focus on charity, striving to live this idea that Jesus set forth. Chapter five of Matthew. It is not easy. I'll give you another, can I give another example of how Joseph tried to live this?
Please. I love this As part of his presidential campaign, um, and as part of sort of his [00:54:00] development of Navu as a city and, uh, sort sort of just developing his, you know, the, the organization of the church and sort of a, a movement. He establishes the Council of 50, right? This is Joseph Smith papers, right?
Yes. Talk to me about that. He establishes the Council of 50, and this is a council that he put together. He insisted that there be people on this council that are non-members that do not share his, his views politically or religiously. He wants diversity, he wants everyone to be heard. He wants everyone to have equal access, equal sort of voice in this new sort of government that he wants to, you know, start and, and move forward with Jesus at at least the principles of Jesus at the center.
Yes. And so he just gets all these people of different religions and everything. Uh, one thing, here's a, here's a quote from, uh, the council of 50, like section of of the papers. He says, nothing is more congenial to my feelings and principles than the principles of universal freedom. And it has been from the beginning.
Let us from henceforth drive from us every species of intolerance. When a man is free, he is then capable of being a critic or to think critically when I've used every means in my power to exalt a man's mind and have taught him the righteous principles to no effect, and he's still inclined in his darkness.
Yet the same principles of liberty and charity would ever be manifested by me
as though he had embraced the gospel.
Why does that make you emotional?
Again, just sort of in transparency and vulnerability. It's just because it's something I long to, uh, [00:56:00] emulate. Hmm. I wanna, I, I want to, I want to feel that right next time I encounter someone who, uh, doesn't agree with me, who even hates me. I wanna try to persuade them Section 1 21. Right. I wanna try to persuade them love with love unfeigned, and even when they don't agree with me and they don't, and, and they still hate me, I still wanna feel the pure love of Jesus Christ in my heart for that person.
And I just feel like I've just got so far to go. And so it just sort of, you know, it is just, again, it's, it's just a, a personal journey for each of us, you know. Uh, wow. Can, can I read another one, please? This is from the history of the church, volume three, page 3 83. Ever. Keep in exercise the principle of mercy, and be ready to forgive our brother on the first intimation of repentance and asking forgiveness.
And should we even forgive our brother or even our enemy before he repent or ask for forgiveness, our heavenly Father will be equally as merciful unto us. That's a beautiful one. So these are the types of beliefs that Joseph Smith embraced that allowed him to feel peace in this moment when he is going to his certain death.
And then finally, this is my favorite, and you've probably heard it before, and our listeners, I hope have heard it before. If not, just enjoy it. Joseph said, it is my disposition to give and to forgive. To bear and to forebear with all long suffering and patience with the foibles, follies, weaknesses, and wickedness of my brethren and all the world of mankind and my confidence and love toward you is not slackened nor weakened.
And now, if you should be called upon to bear with us a little and any of our weaknesses and follies and should with us, receive a rebuke to yourselves. Don't be offended when you and I meet face to face. I [00:58:00] anticipate without the least doubt that all matters between us will be fairly understood and perfect love prevail, and the sacred covenant by which we are bound together have the uppermost seat in our hearts.
One of my favorite quotes of all time from Joseph Smith. That's beautiful. That's the template for peace. I mean, mm-hmm. You have beliefs like that and you strive to embrace these ideals taught by the savior in your life and you live them. There you can, you can go, you can be walking to your certain death and be filled with peace and calm.
Yeah. That's crazy to me. That's beautiful. And I strive for it. Well, and from everything you've just talked about and taught me, I love this idea. I've never considered this. Now, the reality of him walking, knowing that he was going to die, but that in order for him to have a conscience void of offense towards God and all men, he had to have loved the members of the mob.
That's crazy. It totally, like, I, I a hundred percent believe that that is mind blowing to me to think that going in, he loved everyone that he knew would end his life. I can't imagine that he would've loved them. You know, we, we both know this, the meaning of Hyrum and Joseph, but now it takes on a whole new meaning for me because in Hebrew, this is kind of cool.
In Hebrew, Hyrum means exalted, brother. Beautiful. How much do we love that? Mm-hmm. But Joseph in Hebrew means he will increase. Love it. And I always thought it was, he will increase the knowledge of the gospel. He will increase the Book of Mormon, he will increase, obviously, that's it. But now in light of what you've just taught us, he will increase in love, he will increase in mercy, he will increase in forgiveness.
I mean that he was the template of that for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And the example that if he as an earthly man can do it. And again, I love that you've said he wasn't perfect. Yeah. No one is. But wow, to have a conscience void of offense towards God and towards all men in your last hour, [01:00:00] that is the template of peace right there.
Yeah. Because of charity, because of his ability to increase in charity ultimately. So, cool. Well, and that you just remind me of Moroni I seven, right? Mm-hmm. About charity where, uh, read it Moroni I 7 45 through 48. Yes. Um. Charity Suffereth Long. I just think of this again, you know? Mm-hmm. Uh, this, we've gotta read these in terms of personal application and striving to meet this, this Christ-like ideal.
We suffer long. We're kind, we envy not, we're not puffed up. We don't seek our own interest. We're not easily provoked. We think no evil. We, we rejoice, not iniquity. I feel like this is just directly talking to me. Why do I feel like that? We bear all things, we believe, all things. We hope, all things. We endure all things.
If you don't have charity, verse 46, you're nothing like literally. We, we, we, we, nothing else matters if we don't have charity. I think of one Corinthians 15, right verse 48. This is the one I was thinking of specifically prey unto the Father with all the energy of your heart that you may be filled with this love, which he has to be stowed upon all who are true followers of his son, Jesus Christ.
I've, I've had moments. I, I I, I, I don't wanna sound like a complete failure. I've had moments in my life 'cause I, this is something I pray for all the time, Tammy. Yeah. I have, for decades, I, any gift not asked for is a gift rejected and I don't wanna reject this gift of charity, but I, I want it so I ask for it over and over and over.
And I've, I've had moments where I've felt it and experienced the clarity of charity and the way I see others and the way I see myself. And it's beautiful. But I, I can attest that it takes a lot of effort and consistency and consciously asking before we, we feel or experience the reality of that gift of charity.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I totally agree. And then when you read those verses, I pictured in my mind, Joseph Smith walking to Carthage and all the things that you just is [01:02:00] the words in Moroni. That is a great cross reference to verse four and five. So I am glad I put that there. Wow. John, thank you so much. Thank you for focusing on those, those words right there and for teaching us everything you did.
That was a great discussion. So, wow, template of peace. Indeed. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so in the next segment I'm going to ask you a question and I am so looking forward to not only what is John's answer, but what everyone's answer will be. We'll do that next.
Segment 6
---
So we're gonna play a soundbite for everyone to hear. This is from Elder Holland and I want you to listen to it. And as you are listening, here's the question I want you to answer afterwards. John, you ready for this? I'm good. This question is because of what the Lord did through Joseph Smith. I blink.
Okay, so here we go. We're gonna play this cool soundbite. It's about a minute long, so just hunker in and listen. It's so good. In this their greatest and last hour of need. I ask you would these men blaspheme before God by continuing to fix their lives, their honor and their own search for eternal salvation on a book, and by implication a church and a ministry, they had thick.
Fictitiously created out of whole cloth.
Nevermind that their wives are about to be widows and their children fatherless. Nevermind that their little band of followers will yet be houseless, homeless, and friendless, and that their children will leave footprints of blood across frozen rivers and an untamed prairie floor. Nevermind that legions will die, and other legions live declaring in the four [01:04:00] quarters of this earth that they know the Book of Mormon and the church, which it espouses it to be true.
Disregard all of that. And tell me whether in this hour of death, these two men would enter the presence of their eternal judge quoting from and finding solace in a book, which, if not the very word of God, would brand them as imposters and charlatans until the end of time. They would not do that. They were willing to die rather than deny the divine origin and the eternal truthfulness of the Book of Mormon.
All right, John, because of what the Lord did through Joseph Smith I, or just share your thoughts after watching that video. Yeah, I love that. By the way, from Elder Holland, president Holland. Mm-hmm. Because of what the Lord did through Joseph Smith. I understand far better and clearer than I would've otherwise understood the true nature of my heavenly Father, his son, Jesus Christ, the saviors of toning sacrifice, and God's plan of exaltation.
That's my answer, and I want to clarify what I mean and what I don't mean when I say that. I, I, I believe that most of our gospel questions and concerns could be resolved, answered, and resolved if we just studied the articles of faith. Such simple statements that have so many gems in them. I wanna, uh, reference two real fast.
Number nine, we believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal, and we believe that he will yet reveal [01:06:00] many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God. I wanna add to that. I, I, I just want to tell you my reading of that. I think a lot of times we, we see that and, and I think we think when, when we read, he will yet reveal it.
We kind of see, we just think of the church expanding. That's kind of what we mean or that's what we think it means. Uh, I think it means what it says and that there are doctrinal clarifications and understanding regarding God, his character, his nature, and the nature of his plan that we have never conceived of that will yet come forth.
Number 11, we claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience. And we allow all men the same privilege for good reason. Let them worship how, where, or what they may. So when I say. That because of what the Lord did through Joseph Smith, I understand far better and clearer than I would have otherwise.
The true nature of a heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ and the nature of God's plan of salvation. I do not mean that the church of Jesus Christ of Latterday saints as restored through Joseph Smith contains all the answers to every question about God, Jesus Christ, and the planet of salvation because we don't, we overtly, explicitly say we don't.
President Nelson was very big on just emphasizing this whole restoration thing is just beginning. It's just beginning. 200 years later, we're, we're just starting here guys. So like, buckle up and he say, buckle up. Take your vitamins. Take your vitamins. Yeah. You know, um, so I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that you can't come to understand truths about God, Jesus Christ and God's plan if you're part of a different religion because you can.
Mm-hmm. I have studied, uh, I'm not a religious expert, but I have definitely studied, I think more about, uh, different religions than most people, than the average Joe on the street. Right. Um, and from [01:08:00] Buddhism to Hinduism, to Judaism to Protestant, uh, uh, religious, uh, groups to Catholicism, Judaism, whatever. I have found truths about God and the nature of his character and his plan and all of those things.
But I am saying that the doctrines and principles as revealed through Joseph Smith, by God in this ongoing restoration, have done more. To develop my understanding and belief, understanding of, and belief in God than any other thing I have ever encountered, and I actively seek for it. I'm a seeker. Mm-hmm.
I look for it everywhere. And I have yet to see, like by a long shot Tammy, I have yet to see a religious or philosophical, um, approach or paradigm or program that offers as much content for clarity as the doctrines and principles restored by God through Joseph Smith. And the reason why, again, I believe all these things are true are because I take them to God.
I take them when I hear something from when I read something in a book about Buddhism and it feels I, and I feel the fruits of the spirit. Testify to me that they are true. I go to God and I talk to 'em about it, and I see how it's integrated already. Usually, yeah. In restoration doctrine, it's beautiful.
It's just in different phrases, in different words. Right. That's, but it's there. That's cool. It's there. And so I am, so, I, I just can't emphasize enough how grateful I am to Joseph Smith for having the courage. He, he had so many reasons to give up Tammy. Mm-hmm. He had so many reasons to just throw in the towel.
He, he endured so much, uh, in, in his, in his personal life, in his family life. He had so many reasons to give up and just say, I'm done with this. I'm [01:10:00] so grateful to him that he had the courage just to keep going and putting one foot in front of the other, all the way to Carthage. And I just say, again, thank the God of heaven for such a man who was humble enough and brave enough to just, just do what he felt was right.
No matter the cost. And uh, so that's what I would say to your question, uh, because of what the Lord did through Joseph Smith, I blank, there's my big long fill in the blank. I loved your fill in the blank. I took notes. I love that you said content for clarity. Amen. To that. But I really, I think the thing that resonated me was, and, and I've thought a lot about this, is when you said he had so many reasons to just say, I'm out.
Like I, I don't need to do this anymore. Yeah. I don't know if, and, and this has recently been something I've thought about because I went to go kill a spider. This is so absurd. If you've ever tried to kill a bug or a spider, do you ever notice they run to live? Like how furious they are. Like they have, oh man, I'm never gonna kill another one.
No, I know. It, it kind of makes me sad because there's a part of them in their brain that wants to live more than anything that they scurry around to save their own lives. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I thi and to me, I think if a spider or a little bug acts like that, then of course human nature, like we as humans want to live.
We want to live. And so it would've been so. It would've made so much sense if Joseph just would've been just kidding, guys. It's just a joke, you know, come on, I, Adam really go, lemme just do my time in jail and then I'll go be with my family and we'll just pretend this never happened. I can't even imagine anyone having enough hubris to die for something like that.
It's just so, it does not make sense for him. There's so many things. I've thought a lot about Joseph Smith on this level because before I got my testimony of Joseph Smith, it was challenged and it was challenged with all the things. It was challenged with all of the stuff out there that people are like, oh, you don't know.
Oh, I know. I've paid the price. [01:12:00] Absolutely paid the price. And because I've paid that price, um, my answer is because of what the Lord through Joseph Smith, I am happier. I'm just happy. Mm-hmm. There's no other answer for me. And, and I love how you said there's no more, I mean, there's so much content for clarity.
Yes, absolutely. That is true. And I'm just grateful that he was willing to pay the price. And not only Joseph, but Emma. Wow. Oh, mercy. Thank you, Emma, Charlie and his mom. I mean, everybody involved, all of all of them, all the people who stayed when it was over. There's just so much truth to that, and I can't deny that.
And like you said. Studying other religions. There's truth in all of them, but this, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints contains the gospel of Jesus Christ that will lead us to him covenants. That's the thing I love the most. I can't even believe we get to make covenants in a temple and that we get to wear a holy garment of the priesthood.
Yeah. It's just, I love it. So that's my answer. I, I'm happy because of, of Joseph Smith love. That's so, so beautiful. I am, I'm grateful for our discussion today. This has been so awesome. And yeah, something I've wanted to do is study section 1 35, and I knew you'd be able to do it, and you did it so well, and you came so prepared.
Like, John, you've been awesome today, so thank you for sharing everything. Oh, thanks for having me. Oh, it's, it really, it's been my pleasure. And, and thank you for all the things you share and all the work you're doing. Oh, just a privilege to be a part of it today. Thank you. You bet it, it's so cool. Let's just finish with section 1 35 verse seven.
The very end. I just wanna start with this as an ambassador for the religion of Jesus Christ. So he is talking about Joseph, but I love this idea. It says that will touch the hearts of honest men among all nations. And their innocent blood with the innocent blood of all the martyrs under the altar that John saw will cry un into the Lord of hosts till he avenges that blood on earth.
Amen. And just this idea of the innocent in the, [01:14:00] like the, the hearts of honest men, that's what it is, that the message today will touch the hearts of honest men and women. And that if your heart has been touched, that you will then go out and spread the good word and share your eulogy of Joseph Smith as John has done with us today.
And so John, thank you for your eulogy. It's been fantastic. No, you're welcome. And thanks for having me again. Yeah, great discussion. So what is your eulogy? I wanna know what you'd like to add to what we've discussed today. Please share with us, go join our Facebook or follow us on Instagram to share what you've learned and what your thoughts are.
And then at the end of the week, we usually post a question from this discussion. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday. And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, because it's where we're gonna have links to the references and you're gonna want them for this specific episode as well as a transcript for this whole discussion.
So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our awesome study group participant was John Fossum. And you can find more information about my friend at lds living.com/sunday on Monday.
Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week, and please remember that you are God's favorite.