The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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Segment 1
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Did anyone out there end up as a superlative in their high school yearbook? Like were you best dressed, best hair, best eyes, best dancer? Most likely to be a politician. What was mine? How about most likely to miss every reunion because I didn't. Well, did you know that God has superlatives and in our discussion of Moses one and Abraham three, we get to find out what they are and there is probably the best superlative ever for you too.
Welcome to the Sun on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living where we take the come Follow me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Old Testament.
Come follow me study just like my longtime listening friend Kevin Lemley. Hello Kevin, who is a former student of our guest today, and you're gonna love this episode. And his sweet mom, Betty. And I met them, and it was so good to meet you guys. Now, another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's a little bit different, and this week is going to be so fun.
We're in the Old Testament, and I just had to have this guest join us. Welcome to the podcast, to Becky Farley, old School og. Hi, Becky. Here I am. Hey everybody. Hey, tab. Becky. How excited are we to introduce our guest? I, I have been looking forward to this. I feel like my entire life, at least since the two, 2015 I, when my son was in Israel doing a study abroad, yes.
With, uh, literally one of our very favorite people. All right. I'm super excited. You wanna introduce, who is it, Becky? It's Kerry Stein. Hi Kerry. Hi. Well, thanks for having me on. I'm just glad to be with you guys, and please tell Caleb hi for me, Becky. Oh, I will. He's gonna be listening. Kerry. Mm-hmm. We are huge fans.
Well, he's a great student, great friend. We know that you have put the work in. Well, thank you. We, we love Caleb. Our hope. My whole family loves Caleb. He loves your whole family. I think it would be so awesome to be in Israel with you, Kerry. Holy cow. The things you that your students must have learned. I mean, that's why you're here.
It's, it's fun. Yeah. It, it's, it is fun. It's just good. I mean, good, clean fun, good clean, fun, fun. So for when you're digging in the dirt and then it's good, dirty, fun, but yeah. Yeah. Well, Kerry Mulestein is a professor down at BYU and you guys, he's one of the top Egyptologists of all time, and he's gonna be on our podcast.
I'm gonna tell you a little bit more about him being an Egyptologist, which is so cool. But just FYI, Kerry has a brand new book out and that's why we're having him on so early in the year. We'll probably bring him back on for Isaiah, but I just had to have him on right now because he has a book you're gonna want to use for your Old Testament study this year, you guys, it's called Inspirations and Insights from the Old Testament.
I went and bought it. In fact, we used it for this whole discussion. So go find it. You can find it on Deseret book.com. You can find it on Amazon. Anywhere else, Kerry. Uh, those are probably the, the two easiest [00:03:00] places to get it. Yeah, I think so too. And he has done such a great job of just taking the Come Follow Me lesson for the week and breaking it down in some main points that you wanna know and understand.
So we're gonna show you how that works in our episode today. You wanna add anything about your book, your new one anyway? Uh, no. I, I, well, we, we did it to help people. It's, it's really specifically designed for Come follow me aid, uh, with questions at the end that I hope help people think through not just what to talk about in, in gospel doctrine, but what to do in their life.
Oh, I like that. Well, we're gonna apply that today, and Kerry's gonna teach us some pretty cool things about these two books. So if you wanna know more about my guests, make sure you go check out their bios and their pictures. You can find that in our show notes, which are at lds living.com/sunday on Monday.
And you guys grab your scriptures, like for reels and something to mark them with, because we are going to dig into Moses chapter one in Abraham chapter three. Okay, you two. Before we even begin, first tell me what did the Holy Ghost teach you as you read these two books? So for me, the number one thing that I learned is just straight at the very beginning, um, in, in, um, Moses chapter one.
And really it's several verses, verse four, verse six, verse 13, and verse 18. And they all say the same thing. Basically that Moses learned that he was God's son. And that because, so in for and behold, thou are my son. And then verse six, and I have a work for thee, Moses, my son, so that not only is he his son, but he has a work for him.
He's important, he's got something for him to do. And then in verse 10, Moses, he, he, he doesn't have, his strength is taken away from him because his strength is god's. And then in verse 10, he receives his strength and then he realizes how strong he is with God at that point. And he says that, I know that man is nothing, which thing I had never supposed.
And I think that's so typical of the world. Mm-hmm. That we think that we are so great and hot. Then we don't realize that everything can be taken from us if we don't realize that we're gods. And then in 13 he says, he comes, Satan comes to him, and he says, who? Who are thou? I'm a son of God. I know exactly who I am.
And then he's able to withstand all of Satan's temptations. And then this is the verse I just loved. Verse 18, and again, Moses said, I will not cease [00:06:00] to call upon God. I have other things to inquire of him for his glory has been upon me. Wherefore, I can judge between him and the depart. Hence Satan. He's able to have curiosity in expanding his knowledge of God because of knowing who he is.
Knowing who Satan is. And, and just taking care of business and being such a great steward of his testimony of understanding who he is. And it immediately made me think of Elder Kevin Brown in conference where he says, if you know, you know, and this is Moses. At that point, he knows and he is able to be a steward of this work that God has given him because he was his son.
So that, that is what the spirit taught me is once I know who I am, I can become a steward of what God, what the work is that God has for me. That's awesome. Wow. Yeah. I like that so much, Becky. In fact, we're gonna dive into all of those again later on and get Kerry's take on it. So that was the perfect setup for our whole episode today.
So thank you. You didn't even know we were gonna talk about that. There's a reason the spirit inspired you. I think that's awesome. Good job, Becky. Thank you. What about you, Kerry? Anything that stood out to you that's new? 'cause you know, these verses these chapters so well. Well, first I just wanna say amen and hallelujah to what Becky said.
Uh mm-hmm. But the, the thing that touched me the most, and, and it's not new, but it is still what the spirit testified to me the very most, is God wants us home with him. Uh, and he's got a plan. He's, he's done everything but what he wants is to bring us home like him so we can be with him. Yes, I'll amen.
In hallelujah. That and, and what both of you shared ties to what the Spirit taught me. I can't believe how I've missed this so many times was in Abraham chapter three, and when we get there we'll mark it up, but this verse specifically when I read it, I was like, oh, I just made my heart melt. And it goes with what both of you taught us in Abraham chapter three, verse 17.
At the very end of this verse, it says, there is nothing that the Lord thy God shall take in his heart to do, but what he will do it. And I love that because it just supports what you're doing. Like what you both had said, like, God will do whatever God wants to have done. He's gonna do it, and he's gonna start by making us know who we are.
And I love how you said that, Becky, when you know, you know, and the whole thing of that God's trying to do is get us to return to him. So he's gonna do everything he can in his power to make sure that that gets done. And so we're gonna talk about all of that today. That was such a great discussion, just sharing what the spirit taught [00:09:00] us.
And the spirit's already here. I, I think that is awesome. How, just a good, peaceful feeling, like, yeah, what you guys shared is truth. So thank you for sharing and for coming prepared to share. So in the next segment then we're gonna dive into Moses chapter one, and we're gonna first ask Kerry, where in the world did this book even come from?
We'll do that next.
Segment 2
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Kerry, you're gonna like this. Actually, maybe you won't because you don't really like adulation, which is something that I love about you. I ha When you were very first on my podcast years ago, the like first episode or one of the first years we did this, you came on, I think it's like four years ago.
Yeah. Four or five. You were on the podcast. Yeah. And my friend Sarah was listening, shout out to Sarah Sergeant. She was listening and she heard you and she looked you up. And then she texted us in our whole fruit friend group chain and she said, you guys. Ladies, did you realize that Kerry Mulestein world's foremost Egyptologist and 0.02% of top professors, according to Princeton, was Tam's guest this week.
This is frigging big time. That's exactly what she said. Well, that, that's kinda, I I would not say I'm the foremost Egyptologist, but, but uh, we'll, we'll take what we can get, I guess so. Well, exactly. And I love when she texted that because I thought, this is big time. This is so cool that we get to have Kerry Stein on because he knows his stuff when it comes to Egypt.
And that is where these two books are rooted. Like Moses and Abraham start out like in Egypt. And so this is your gig, this is your thing. And so I just wanna know right from the gates, here we are in the book of Moses, just tell us where did the book of Moses come from? How in the world did we get it and why do we need it?
Well, oh, well, those are good questions. I know they're big. I love, love, love the book of Moses. Uh, I love teaching, I teaching Pearl Great Price at BYU right now. Um, the book of Moses is the Joseph Smith translation of the first part of Genesis. Okay. That's, that's really what it is. Now, Moses chapter one is a little bit of a unique role in that most everything else we know God has commanded Joseph Smith to go through the Bible, and as he goes through the Bible, he gets revelations and he gets them in chunks.
So like two through three come together? Well, not, not, they don't come in exactly the way we have the chapters outlined now. Mm-hmm. So they, they, they break in the middle of chapters, but he gets them in chunks. The first one he gets is Moses chapter one, but that we can't tell if it comes before or after he is commanded to go through the scriptures.
It seems to me it, it might be the impetus for it. He just receives this vision and then God commands him to go through, I think, but we don't know. It may be God commands him to go through and then he receives this vision. But this is a vision that is, uh, so Genesis, for example, Moses two and three is matches, it's got tons of new information, but it matches roughly with Genesis one and two.
Mm-hmm. Moses one matches nothing in Genesis, right. This is completely new. [00:12:00] Out of the blue revelation God gives Joseph Smith. That really is the preface to Genesis. This is the story he seems to be telling us. This is how Moses. Knows what he knows and sees what he sees. But this is just amazing information, not it's value.
It's greatest value is not in helping us understand, okay, this is how Moses starts learning about things from God. Its value is in what Moses learns about his relationship with God and what that teaches us about our relationship with God and about who God really is and what he really does. I mean, can you imagine if this is how we actually began Genesis chapter one?
Because Genesis one for us begins with and in the beginning, but instead in fact, I've written next to Book of Moses. I put Genesis chapter one and then I wrote before. Because can you imagine how different it would be for every human being who's ever read Genesis one to actually read Moses one first?
Yeah. Oh yeah. And go, oh, wait a minute, I'm a child of God. God loves me. God wants me to return to him. We read all of that and then then we all of a sudden enter into yes. And so here's how God's gonna do it. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and Moses actually tells us the whole reason he even did this creation was for us.
Like that is so cool. You read that in Moses chapter one, verse 33. Everything I've created, I created for my own purpose, and I just put, which is for us to return to him and then end of verse 35, that all things are numbered un me, and they are mine, and I know them. That means me. I'm them. Wow. This is so cool.
Yeah, I, it is amazing. I, seriously, that was the thing I kept thinking while I was going through these scriptures, recognizing because he knew who he was, then he was able to get all of this more revelation of the world and how it was created. But you know, it seems weird that you would suddenly get this revelation without knowing who you were.
Yeah. That you are Gods. And so then he can add upon you at that point. Right. Love that. And knowing who we are is key. Yeah. To getting through this life. In fact, Becky, you took us through this, so let's mark some of these verses really quick. And then Kerry, we'll come back to you because you were right.
One of the most important things to get out of this book is who we are, and so let's go ahead and mark those you gave them to us in your thing that the Holy Ghost taught you. But let's go to Moses chapter one, verse three. Kerry, will you please read verse three for us? Sure. God spoken to Moses saying, behold, I am the Lord God Almighty and endless is my name for I am without beginning of days or end of years, and is not this endless.
I kind of feel like you should tell us something about that verse, Kerry. Yeah, I, I love. So, I mean, think I'm, I'm gonna bring in verse two a little bit to help us understand this. Moses' experience actually starts out [00:15:00] with his being humbled in a, an incredible way. He is just overwhelmed. And part of that is just by seeing God and realizing he can endure God's presence without being changed.
And that's what we get in verse two, that just to realize this being is so much more glorious than I am, that I don't survive if I, if he doesn't graciously change me with his power so that I can survive. And then the first thing God says is a statement of who he is. And it's a pretty overwhelming statement when you think about it.
This, it's incredible. God, Moses, in order for Moses to understand who Moses is. He first has to understand who God is and he, he learns it by experience and by what God teaches him. Wow. Mm-hmm. And I feel like those, that verse three is verses of superlatives for the God. I am almighty, endless is my name.
I'm without beginning of days or end of years. And, and he sets it up by saying, look how, like, look who I am and then let me tell you who you are. Boom. Verse four, thou art my son. Yeah. That's the how awesome I, that's mean that's better than having Michael Jordan as your dad, right? Yeah. Yes. And that's the incredible park.
And this is a pattern I think we see everywhere in scriptures, but it might be illustrated most intensely and most clearly here in Moses chapter one, where God humbles Moses and then immediately nobles him. Mm-hmm. And then he humbles him and ennobles him. But e, each time he's humbling. It's getting to get him to where he can ennoble him in the right way.
Bring him up in the right way. So the right way. He is ennobled by realizing he is God's son. And, but you don't really understand what that means if you haven't learned who God is. Right. So he is humbled by learning who God is, and then think of what that means because automatically when you hear you're a daughter or you're a son of somebody, you, you realize.
Children can grow up to be like their parents. And so think of what that means, both in terms of God's loving relationship with Moses. Like, you're my son, so I know you and I care about you. But also it says something about Moses' potential at the exact same moment. It's part of why it's so powerful to know we are children of God.
Oh my goodness. So Kerry, go to the next humbling verse. I love that you just set that up. Humbling and then building. So the next humbling verse, verse five. Yeah, well, it even starts a, a after verse four, like he says, you're my son. And then he says, I'll show you the workmanship of mine hands, but not all.
For my works are without end. And also my words for they never cease. My kids say that about me too, but in a different way. But um, then verse five, where for? And, and you're right. This is incredible. No man can behold all my works except he behold all my glory and no man can behold all my glory and afterward remain in the flesh on the earth.
So he seems to be telling him, if I were to show you everything, [00:18:00] I would have to change your nature so substantially that I can't change it back. You would no longer be compatible with the earth, just like you're not compatible with me and I have to change you. If you see everything I've done, I change you so much.
You can't be on the earth anymore. That's crazy. To think of what that says about God. Oh indeed. That is amazing. Oh, I love this so much. So then Becky read the very beginning of verse six 'cause now he's gonna build Moses up. Yeah, and I have a work for the Moses My son. Highlight that everybody. And then read the next thing he gives.
How in, I love this next building up and thou art in the similitude of mine. Only begotten and mine only begotten is and shall be the savior for he is full of grace and truth. But there is no God beside me and all things are present with me and I know them all. How is that a building up verse? Yeah, it's It's amazing, isn't it?
Mm-hmm. Yeah, totally. That he is his son and he knows everything and we are his children. That is so crazy. And the part where he is like, and you're like, I mean, how You're in the similitude of mine only begotten. What a compliment. Like yeah. And you're just like, Jesus Christ, you're in similitude. You're not, I, I love this idea of similitude shadows type symbols.
You're, you're like him. I mean, what a great compliment be compared to Jesus Christ. Yeah. And, and notice what he's doing here. Each time he builds him up, he does in noble him or built him up, but it is in his relationship with God or with Christ. Mm-hmm. That's what needs to happen. As we are built up, or we're a nobl, it shouldn't be about what we are, it's about what we are because of our relationship with God or what we are because of our relationship with Christ.
As long as we stay tied to that, then we avoid the pride problem. Mm-hmm. It's when we, we forget that part. So God always builds us up by reminding us of who we are and what we are with him or with his son, Jesus Christ. And with his son, Jesus Christ. Verse seven, Becky reread that for us. Yes. And now behold, this one thing I show unto thee, Moses, my son, for thou art in the world.
And now I show it unto thee. I love that idea of three times. Right there, he's told, that's the third time you're my son. And so we get those awesome buildups. I, I had this really cool moment. You guys will love this story. So earlier this week, one of my friends, her name's Aaliyah, and she's a listener of the podcast.
And she sent me this cute voicemail. And in the message she talked about how she is in this counseling practice. And in this counseling practice, she works with a lot of little kids. And she said in one week she had three different kids say to her, Ms. [00:21:00] Boyd, are you, am I your favorite? And she was like, it was cute at first, but after the third kid, she was like, wait a minute, am I doing something wrong?
Like, am I doing something that makes these kids think that I'm, that I don't like them? And so then later that week, she actually had a little neighbor girl come over and ask the same thing, am I your favorite? So she said, okay, I've gotta get some help. So she went to her supervisor and said, I might be doing something wrong because these little kids keep saying, am I your favorite?
And the supervisor said to her, oh no, you're not doing anything wrong. At this age is when little kids try to discern between what's real and what's not real. And when they ask, am I your favorite? They just wanna know, is this real. Hmm. And she loved that because she said, every time I hear you say at the end of your podcast, you are God's favorite.
It made me think about these little girls saying, Ms. Boyd, am I your favorite? And she realized, oh my goodness. Like I have to, I often question, am I really God's favorite? 'cause I always say that, Kerry, I tell everybody they're God's favorite. I believe that with all of my heart. Yeah, I really do. I think it's the best superlative of all time for God to say, you or my daughter, or you or my son.
I don't think there's a better superlative. Not even best dressed or best looking can beat that because to be God's child and to be his favorite is just the greatest compliment of the highest order. And I think sometimes we, on this earth is this real heavenly Father like, do you really love me? Am I really your child?
Am I your favorite? And we wanna know is it real? And, and I think that this truth is so important and it was important to our prophet President Nelson, and we, we wanna read this quote from him about why he thinks this truth of knowing that God loves us and that we are his children is important. So, Becky, can you read this quote from President Nelson?
Yeah. This is from his talk choices for eternity, and he gave it to the young adults in a worldwide devotional. In 2022, labels can be fun and indicate your support for any number of positive things. Many labels will change for you with the passage of time, and not all labels are of equal value. But if any label replaces your most important identifiers, the results can be spiritually suffocating, for example.
If I were to rank in order of importance, the designations that could be applied to me, I would say first I am a child of God, a son of God, then a son of the covenant, then a disciple of Jesus Christ, and a devoted member of his restored church. Thank you. So the two of you as parents, I wanna know, why do you think this label is important for your kids to know?
Why do you want people to know this? Uh, for me, this is kind of the rest of the story of Moses Chapter one. Uh, it changes our ability to recognize what we can do. It changes our ability to recognize deception. It changes the, the way we think of [00:24:00] each other. It, it really, it changes everything Once we know who God really is.
If we know who God is and we know we are his child, then we can't think of ourselves the same way. We can't think of the garbage in the world around us the same way, and we can't think of each other the same way. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. It's, it is, honestly, when I think of my kids and my grandkids, it's the thing I want them to know more than anything else.
Why? 'cause if they know this, they're gonna be okay. They can get out of any jam that they get in. If they can remember that they are a child of God, no matter what jam they're in, they can say it's gonna be okay. I'm, I'm gonna make it through this because I am God's son or God's daughter. Oh, powerful. Yeah, I, I love that.
I do too. So let's do this then in the next segment, let's find out what jam Moses found himself in and see if he was able to get out of it because of being a labeled the son of God will do that next.
Segment 3
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Alright. We're still in Moses chapter one and Moses finds himself in quite a jam. Becky, you don't even know you were gonna do that for us. That was absolutely perfect and it is the jam of all jams. I mean, here's a precarious situation that. Having the label as a son of God is the only thing that helped Moses in this scenario.
And knowing that he was being compared to Christ, that he was connected through God in Christ by being their son. And I love this. So Kerry, teach us about the jam that Moses finds in and it set us up for this. Yeah. And as we do it, I hope we'll recognize that while this is happening for Moses on a large scale, in a, in a more clear way than maybe happens for us, this happens to all of us.
We can all put ourselves in Moses's place. This is our story as much as it's Moses' story. And it's part of why I also loved what, what Becky was saying, because it's part of why knowing we are a child of God is so important. So. Moses has come, he's had this vision right where he saw God, and it's worth noting that what he's gonna have is two separate visions of God and in between he has this terrible jam and he has to make it through that jam to be able to have the second vision.
Right. Okay. That's, that's part of what happens. God communes with us gives us stuff, then the world's gonna try and take it from us, and we're not gonna get more from God if we give into the world. Fortunately Moses doesn't because he's learned who, who he is. So he passes out. The vision is so amazing, and his being changed is so amazing.
He's, he basically on the, uh, I don't know if he's actually unconscious, but he doesn't have enough strength to to to get up, right. Um, when he does. And so that's probably a somewhat vulnerable moment. I think often after incredible spiritual experiences or moments of [00:27:00] conversion or being born again and those kinds of things.
It's amazing. It's wonderful. It's also spiritually exhausting. And then Satan's gonna hit us, and that's exactly what he does with Moses. We get in verse 12, Satan came tempting him saying, Moses, son of man worship me. Now. Now notice the, the identifier as we're talking about identifiers, the identifier he gives Moses there, right?
This is not the, the son of man phrase that Christ will use for himself, which doesn't even come into existence until Daniel. Right? So there's nothing about that here. This is, Hey, you mortal guy. Worship me. And he is pointing out the difference between his power and the, the power of a mortal human, which is, is great, like Satan is more powerful than you and I are, uh, not in all ways, but in, in a lot of ways.
So, uh, we get to then to verse 13, and I, I'm gonna paraphrase than we can read the real thing, but I think what Moses basically says is, don't give me the son of man garbage. I'm, I'm not a son of man, I'm a son of God. Now, we'll read what he really says. Moses looked upon Satan and said, who are thou. For behold, I am a son of God in some militude of his only begotten.
And where is thy glory that I should worship thee for behold, I could not look upon God, except his glory should come upon me. And I were transfigured before him, but I can look upon thee in the natural man. Is it not so surely? So this is incredible. There are two things that are, are guiding him and they're really intertwined as we've already talked about, recognizing the amazing glory of God.
Everything else looks pale in comparison and recognizing what that says about him. So he says, I'm a son of God. I know what God is like, and I hope we all have that experience. We have these spiritual experiences. Then the world comes in and wants to temp us to do this. And it may seem exciting and it may tempt the natural man and us or whatever else, right?
But if we will stop and think about it, the difference between what the world is offering us and what we felt when we had God with us is stark. And we have to remember that too often we forget that, but if we remember it, then we can easily discern between truth or or light and darkness. We could see truth and error, light and darkness.
I think they're synonyms, but that's what happens for Moses here. He says, now I've seen real light and it's not you, buddy, and I'm not falling for this. Well connect this to us, this idea in verse 10 in Moses chapter one, verse 10, because he's called the son of man. What is significant about this when given Moses' background, especially when he says, for this Cause I know that man is nothing, which thing?
I never supposed Becky pointed that out in the very first segment, but this is, this statement is huge given Moses' upbringing, right? Yes. Yes. That is worth thinking about. We don't know for sure exactly when Moses, uh, and the Exodus story take place, but the most likely candidate is under the, the time of study.
The first Ramsey's the Great, uh, it could be a little bit earlier. Either way. This, what [00:30:00] I'm gonna say is, is the true and, and, uh, applicable Moses grows up in the heyday of Egyptian power. Mm-hmm. The display of Egyptian might and grandeur is incredible. During Moses' Day and Egypt lives, I mean, it, it conquers people and maintains control over different countries, partially just by sheer over awe in them.
Shock and awe. We could almost say just they over impress them. They overwhelm them with what they can do and who they are. And Pharaoh is seen as semi divine, and this is what Moses grows up with. The idea that, that you've got semi divine people around here. Mankind does incredible stuff. Things that it still make me, when I see them, I'm like, wow, how, how can anyone build that?
I don't know that we could build that today. Mm-hmm. Um, we, and I know we can't build it in the same building schedule. They are, we're always behind on building things. But anyway, uh, it is. Yeah, it is. That's true. Truly amazing what man had done. And what Moses had seen man had done. And then he sees God and he realizes all of these things that we go to Egypt and see and our jaws drop and we go, holy cow.
And, and that's when it's old and not looking as good as it did before. Uh, all of those things are nothing, nothing that man has done seems remotely impressive to Moses anymore once he's had one experience with God. And that's incredible. His whole upbringing, Noel and void compared to that one experience with God.
So that's, that is important going into this jam that he finds himself in. 'cause I love how you paraphrase like enough with this like, I dunno what you're talking about, son of man. Yeah, I know who I am. So take us back into the jam then let's go into verse 15. 'cause we have a few more experiences that he has with Satan.
Yeah. So as he continues to tell Satan why he's not going to worship him, he said, blessed be the name of my God for his spirit has not altogether withdrawn from me or else where is thy glory for it is darkness under me. That's exactly what I was talking about, right? Mm-hmm. And I can judge between me and thee.
And this is a key, key part. There are a couple key parts in here. One is, for God sent unto me, worship God for him only shall thou serve. Moses takes that very seriously, and, and he recognizes the difference. So he, he has no, no desire to serve or worship Satan. He, he, he just doesn't want to. 'cause he realizes this is like a really, really cheap imitation and not, not worth spending my time on.
So then he tells Satan to go, uh, he says, get the, hence Satan deceive me, not for God sending me thou, thou after this multitude of mine, only begotten. So notice how he again says. Uh, because I recognize who I am and my potential, I don't want to have anything to do with, with you. Now, that's significant. In fact, uh, that reminds me of a time where it is reported [00:33:00] that President Nelson, this is before he was president of the church, but he was, uh, speaking to a bunch of state presidents and so on, and someone asked him about how to help people with who are struggling with pornography.
And he said, teach them. And I I, I, this may not be an exact quote, but it's pretty close. And it was just a few words. All his whole answer was teach them their identity and potential. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow. And, and that, I mean, basically he's saying what Moses is realizing here, when we remember who we really are and what we really can become, the stuff of the world, the garbage around us just does, it seems like garbage.
We recognize it for what? That's garbage. What do I want that for? Uh, and, and that's what's happening with Moses. But the interesting thing is. It's, it's not gonna work. But, but we have to hit one more thing before that, verse 17. And he also gave me commandments when he called under me out of the burning bush, saying, call upon God and the name of mine only begotten and worship me.
So those are the two things God has told him. Don't worship anyone else and keep calling on me. And we're gonna see that for Moses. Those two things get him through this, along with his knowledge of his relationship with God and who he and God really are. So he's not gonna worship Satan and he wants to call on God.
And we're gonna see that that ends up being a huge thing in this chapter. So he's, but Moses is asked Satan to leave and Satan's not leaving. Mm-hmm. So he, he says a few times more. He says, I'm not gonna cease calling on God. And he tells him to leave again, uh, because he can judge between 'em. That's the end of verse 18 verse 19.
And now when Moses had said these words, Satan cried with a loud voice and ranted upon the earth and commanded saying, I am the only begotten worship me. So notice how Satan, this is twice he's, he's asked Satan to leave twice and Satan just gets upset, throws a little tantrum, he's gonna throw a bigger tantrum, but he's throwing a little tantrum here.
But he changes his tactic, he said, because Moses said, well, I'm only supposed to worship God through his only begotten. And so Satan says, oh, well that's me. I'm his only begotten. Right? He's trying to counterfeit, he's trying to imitate. But Moses has seen what light looks like. And darkness doesn't fool him.
He's just not going for this. Right? But it is scary. Verse 20. And it came to pass that Moses began to fear exceedingly as he began to fear, he saw the bitterness of hell. Now that's important. Fear and, and Satan and the, the, the powers of the world are scary. I know lots and lots of, of young adults, or even older than young adults who are, they fear the ridicule of the world for sticking to our beliefs about family, about, uh, sexuality and chastity before marriage, all sorts of things.
They fear the ridicule. And when you fear the ridicule, you also see the bitterness. Like, it, it, it, it [00:36:00] changes what you're able to, uh, to look at and feel. But the key here is, 'cause that could be the end of this story, he sees the, he fears him, sees the bitterness of hell that could make it so that he. He fails here, but instead Yeah.
Nevertheless, calling upon God, right? Yeah. There's the key. When you feel the fear, when you see the, the toughness around, don't start to call on the world. Don't stop calling on God. And that's what happens. So often we stop reading our scriptures because of this fear we and the pressure around us or whatever.
He keeps calling on God. God had told him to Moses obeys right calling upon God. He received strength. So God helps him get through it. It's not gonna end the problem right now that, that, that ending comes in a moment. But he, he, he receives enough strength to keep going. And he commanded saying, depart from me, Satan, for this one.
God only will I worship, which is the God of glory. So he is still being held through like God told me only to worship him and I know his glory. It's not what you've got. Right. And this actually reminds me of, of President Nelson when he talked about. How the world will tell us that, that, uh, power, popularity, pleasures of the flesh and possessions will give us peace and rest, or will give us what we're looking for.
And then he said, they will not. They cannot. Right. That, that if we remember what God is offering us, the things the world is telling us we should pursue, don't look that great. But when we forget that they look like that's the only thing we could ever want. Mm-hmm. How could we not want those? What, what's wrong with us if we don't have those?
Yeah. Right. But they can't give us what we really want. It's not possible. Well, and I love this idea in verse 20. He began to fear and I was wondering like, well, what made him fear? What? What could possibly have made him fear? But the nevertheless, calling upon God made me think that nevertheless makes me go, oh, wait a minute.
I wonder if he, if he may have doubted in who he was for a moment, if he forgot his label or identity. But nevertheless, even though he may have feared about that, he knew whose he was. Like he knew who he belonged to. He remembered, but wait, I can call upon God. And just like you said in that moment, he received the strength that he needed to, again, say to Satan, you need to leave.
Yeah. But that if you're wanting to know what happens next, because does he leave? I don't know. We'll find out in the next segment.
Segment 4
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So here we are. What happens, Kerry? We're all on the edge of our seats. Right, Becky? Even though we know it's such a good story. So it is. I just love that. Oh my gosh. I just, this story's so great. And I think it's worth noticing that he's asked Satan to leave three times. Mind us. Yeah. Like in case we all think we've failed all the times we ask to like, help us overcome this.
You're in good company three times. Moses is like, leave me alone. Yeah. Keep, [00:39:00] okay, Kerry, go ahead. Well, and, and also, I mean, to your, your point earlier, Satan has in verse 19, Satan is raided a scary thing. And, and then Moses starts to fear, right? And, and he's already asked, told, told Satan to go and Satan hasn't gone.
And instead he is, he's showing his power. Yeah. And that's gonna happen to us in our lives. We will be trying to do what's right. And sometimes because we're trying to do what's right, Satan in the world persecutes us all the more, and it is scary and it is tough. We shouldn't pretend it's not this, these are real powers.
It's scary. People are trying to crush us, ruin our lives, take away our jobs or, or make us feel miserable or whatever it is. And sometimes because we're following God. Mm-hmm. And that is scary. That's why we need that, nevertheless, that you said, and it doesn't always end just because we're calling on God.
We don't know the timing. No, I like that. We don't know the timing. So what do you think Moses is doing now? I mean, what, what does he do to finally get the help that he needs? Well, the, the next step is to see Satan now goes big time. Yeah. This, this is not, it was, is scary. It was a big, bad thing the first time, but verse 21, now Satan began to tremble and the earth shook.
That's scary. And Moses received strength and called upon God saying, and here's the key in the name of the only begotten depart, hence Satan. That is key. Why is that the key I, and I always say this to my students, if you think that on your own you are going to withstand Satan, you are just wrong. Mm-hmm.
Satan is, has been at this for a long time. If you think you can take on the world worldly ideas, Satan, any of this on your own, you are just wrong. It's not going to work. It is only when you tap into the power of Christ and his IT owning sacrifice that you will be able to withstand Satan. Only Christ defeats Satan.
You and I don't. Christ defeats Satan, and that's where Moses had to go. Now, that doesn't mean that if you and I are feeling all these terrible things coming at us and we're praying in the name of Christ that that means immediately it will happen. That's not what that means, but it does mean that's where you have to keep going.
If you're not tapping into that consistently and regularly, you will lose this battle. But if you are tapping into that consistently irreg and regularly, Satan will lose this battle. Those are your two options. Kerry, I have a question about that. Mm-hmm. How would you teach that to your students? Like how do you tap into that when you're in that most bitterness of you've been doing all you can, you feel like you've been calling upon for help and you've been asking Satan to leave, like how do you tap into Jesus Christ getting help?
I think you have to just keep coming to him in more and more fervent prayer. Mm-hmm. And doing everything you can to draw closer to him. It's kind of a sad commentary [00:42:00] on us, but we know it's true. God's talked about it. It's in the scriptures, and, and, and God uses it, that we are not particularly good at staying fervent in our pursuit to be close to God and drawn the power of Christ when everything's just fine.
True often, and I'm, I'm thinking of probably the, the most difficult, desperate times I've had and probably the, the worst one was a, a couple of years and I drew closer to God during that. But it, I was calling on God every moment I was driving in my car. Every, anytime I had free moment, I was just pleading and pleading and, and asking for Christ's delivering power.
And it took a long time, but it did come. And if I'd given up during there, I don't know the outcome that we're happy with at this point. I don't think that would've happened if we'd given up. So it will look different for everyone, but it has to involve consistently coming to God in, uh, through Christ in all the ways God has told us that we come to him through Christ.
I just had a moment. This is amazing because one of the things we talk about in scripture, I don't know, whenever I have the chance to talk about scripture, I always joke, I wish there was a little asterisk next to the end of a verse where there's the problem and then the answer. And I wish the asterisk said three years later, because sometimes in scripture the answer always comes right in the very next verse, but it doesn't work that way in our lives.
Right? And I just had this thought like, what if verses 12 through 22 was a series of three years? Yeah, I don't know. Like, I'm just thinking what if Moses is having this experience with Satan and he's challenging his who he is and he is like, get hints and he's, but he's doing it while he is driving in his car and he's having a moment.
And then a couple years go by and Satan shows back up. I mean, he's just retelling this story. But it's like you said at the beginning, it's, it's our story too. So it could be for different episodes that Moses is having with Satan reminding him, Hey, no, you're supposed to worship me. Remember? Yeah. And Moses has to recall.
I had a really cool experience 'cause I think that's how it is for us. Like there are times when I have to remember when I felt the spirit so strongly when I was in young women's or in college. Like we have those moments that help us remember who God is so that when we can get through our four occurrences with Satan.
I don't know. When you just said that and it's taken you several years to get your answer, wouldn't it be amazing to know or just kind of put that perspective on this, like maybe it was a couple of years, even though it reads like it happened right after sequentially, but. I don't know, maybe there was time in between and rather than a, 'cause it reads like it happened in 10 minutes.
Yeah. Well, and this story, just because we know kind of it's, it's starting, uh, it's somewhere around or after the burning bush episode, and then it's before he goes down to deliver Israel. And that's a short window. So this story is not gonna be a long time, but I think you're right in, in many scripture stories.
It is a long time. Yeah. I think you're right that it, there should be the like, and by the way, it was five years later. Yeah. More than 10 [00:45:00] minutes maybe. Yeah. And I love going back to what you said earlier, Kerry, about the pattern that God humbles you and then, and then you have the strength to go through it, and then he humbles you and then you recognize who he is.
It's this pa. I mean, I see that pattern in my life all over the place that, you know, I get, I go through this terrible time and I think, ugh, I don't know how I'm gonna make it through. And then I recognize God's strength. Yeah. And oh wow, I made it through, oh, things are so good. I feel so good. It's all good.
And then the next thing happens and I fall apart and I'm on the floor, you know, crying and how am I gonna make it through? And then I recognize the strength. If we can just remember that pattern and that overall arching, you are God's child. Whether you're in the jam or whether you are out of the jam and feeling great about life, it's, you are God's child and you can stay in that peace.
That peace is there for you. All the time and just watching the up and down and staying. You know, in mindfulness we say that we are not the storm, we're just in it. We can, we can watch the storm come in and out. We are not that storm. We're the one that's watching the storm. And I can just see that completely with Moses.
He doesn't get, obviously he, he fears, but he realizes, wow, I am bigger than Satan's tantrum. Yeah, I like that. I continue to say to him, depart, it doesn't matter that I have to say it three times. I know it's gonna happen and I might have to say it three times, but that storm will leave and I'm gonna just stay right here in Jesus and know that he has, he has done it for me and I can have peace in that.
That's so powerful. It is. Thank you. And it reminds me of what we talked about earlier, that that Moses is both recognizing his identity and his connection with God. So he's not falling for Satan because he remembers he's a son of God. Yeah. But he also realizes that it's not him. It's God who has the power.
So he's calling on God through Christ and both are necessary to be able to resist Satan. So cool. And even when Satan leaves, he leaves in a great big, huge tank. Like he goes really crazy, loud voice wailing gnashing teeth. Even the end of this doesn't mean it wasn't painful, scary, and difficult. When Christ cast him out, it's still tore.
Yes. Yeah. So verse 21, highlight that. That's the fourth time that Moses tells him to [00:48:00] leave in the name of Christ. And then verse 22, that is such a scary verse. Let's just read it, Kerry. 'cause it's so good. And it came to pass that Satan cried with a loud voice with weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.
And he departed Hess, even from the presence of Moses, that he beheld him not. Wow. Now I need to know Kerry, what do you make of verse 23? Teach me about that verse. Yeah, this, that's a really interesting one. And now of this thing, Moses, poor record, but because of wickedness it has not had among the children of men, does that mean it was never written down or it was written down and it was taken out in the end?
We don't know. There's a part of me that, that wonders. We, we know that initially when the children of Israel get to Mount Sinai, God and Moses intend for them to have a higher gospel understanding, and they lose that opportunity because of their, their lack of faith and their rebellion. And so they end up with a lower law and a lower gospel understanding.
There's a part of me that wonders, is this part of what was lost when it says because of wickedness, I had, they, they lost this or it wasn't given to them. Something along those lines. In the end, we don't know, uh, if that's when and how, or if it's plain, a precious things taken or we, we, we just don't know.
But for some reason, in some way, this gets lost and God wants us to have it again. Yes. Beautiful. He does want us to have it again. And that's what I think is so powerful about Moses. One. And you said there were two visions. We, we studied the first vision, then we have this experience with Satan. Then he gets his second vision starting in verse 24.
And so in the next segment, Kerry's gonna take us into that second vision and teach us some really important truths. We'll do that next.
Segment 5
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Okay. Kerry, teach us about the second vision. I, I love this part of the vision, and we don't have to spend a long time on this, but there are a couple of things that are really worth noting. So. He, you're right. He sees God comes back to him. I find verse 28 particularly interesting because we, we saw in verse eight in his first vision that he saw the whole world and everything.
But in verse 28, he somehow sees more of everything than he saw the first time around. So we get in verse 28, and he be held also the inhabitants thereof. And there was not a soul, which he be held not, and he discerned them by the spirit of God. And their numbers were great, even as numberless, as the sands, as the sand upon the seashore.
And he be held many lands and each land that was called Earth and there were inhabitants on the face thereof. Anyway, it, it's just amazing stuff. But then we finally get Moses to remember when he was talking with Satan, he said. I am not gonna cease calling on God. I have some things I want to ask him. So now God has come and shown him everything, but Moses still has those questions and he is gonna ask those questions.
They, and they govern the [00:51:00] rest of the vision, uh, because these are his questions. We get verse 30, and it came to pass that Moses called upon God saying, tell me, I pray thee why these things are so and by what thou made us them. So basically, why did you do this? And how did you do this? Those are his questions.
Now you're gonna find, I find the way God answers the first question really interesting. So we go to verse 31, and behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God. So he is transfigured again and, and he sees God face to face and the Lord God sent to Moses for my own purpose, have I made these things?
Here is wisdom and it remaineth than me. So the first time he answers the question of why. He says, yeah, I've got a good reason and I'm not telling you. Now, he will eventually tell him That's verse 39, right? Yeah. But he doesn't tell 'em to begin with, so I'm just going to assume that he can't understand the answer God wants to give him.
He can't understand verse 39 until God has told him the things in between. Yeah, I like that. And hence the pattern of the humble and then knowing God. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Exactly. Right. Now he will answer question number two in verse 32. Remember question two is by what or how did you make these things? And I am positive God could have given, uh, an astronomical answer, a geophysical answer, a quantum mechanics answer.
He could have given all sorts of answers about how he created the earth, but this is what he wants us to know. It's not that we shouldn't know the others. This is the most important thing by the word of my power, have I created them, which is my only begotten son who is full of grace and truth. That's.
The reason we need to know or the how we need to know it is by Jesus Christ. Okay? I wanna know from both of you. Wow. Wow. Wow. Why are you saying, wow, Becky, why is that his answer? Because I love how Kerry's, like, he could have totally given him a vision of all the creations, and that's his answer. Why are you saying, wow?
Well, it's always been confusing to me in John where it says, I am the word Yep. By the word of my power. That it's the power of creation. The power of creation comes through the only begotten son who is full of grace and truth. It just, I don't know. I've always been confused about that word. I, I just, I'm getting it a little bit more.
I mean. I love that you just connected the, that word. Word to John chapter one. That is so cool. Yeah. By the word of my power, Jesus Christ. I mean, people say that Joseph Smith made this up. There is no way he could have made this up. There is so many connections, so many things [00:54:00] that, I mean, I just can't believe that even that, like this little itty bitty thing, you can take it right back.
Yeah. Wow. That's now Joseph Smith's good, but no one's that good. No one's that good. Except, except God. Except God. Yeah. That's it. I don't know, that's, I just think it's just amazing that everything comes back to the only begotten son. Everything comes back to Jesus. It's all made because of him. And I, I, I mean the question that I would have, Kerry, if I had another like three hours with you, is that next verse, 33 and worlds without number have I created like Wow.
Yeah. Worlds without number. We are little itty bitty pee on ants in understanding God's creations and love. And it's, I just that one sentence, not only did he create this world through his only begotten son worlds without number. Mm. Yeah. And, and you know that that's part of what I think he needed Moses to know before he was gonna give him the answer as to why he, he needs him to recognize the scale of what he does.
The, the which helps us again, recognize the sheer majesty and might and grandeur of the God we worship and who is our Father. To me, this is one of the blessings of understanding the Old Testament. I think more than any other book, it reminds us of the grandeur of our God. And it's important to know that before we get that answer now, it, it, we need to balance that.
I, I think it's so interesting. Verse 33, world's without number if I created. But he is also gonna tell him in verse 36, uh, be merciful, under thy servant, oh God. And tell me concerning this earth and the inhabitants thereof. Right. God is only going to tell him about this earth. So sometimes we want to apply all this to all sorts of earths and stuff.
God doesn't tell us about the other Earth. He says, yeah, I've got the stuffs going on. I'm telling you about this one. This is what you need to know about. It's so cool. But, but it is important for us to recognize God has done this. He's done it more to than we can understand and, and he's going to keep doing it.
And, and that all comes into play in, in understanding. Verse 39. Sorry, Kerry, can I just say one thing with verse 36? Mm-hmm. That I just really love at the end that Moses is saying. Just tell me about this earth and then I'm going to be content. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I realize that there's all these other worlds that you have created.
You've said that I understand a little bit of your majesty, but just just tell me this little bit and then I'm gonna be content, and when I just think of practical application [00:57:00] to that with ourself. Yeah. Can I be content in knowing that I am his child and that he's gonna get me out of my jam? And that there might be things that I don't understand about why my kids are doing this or why the world is showing me this weirdo idea, but I can be content in knowing who Jesus Christ is and who I am that, that I can be content with that.
We don't need to know the whole story, the whole big picture. Sometimes we just, just tell me what I need to know about what I'm doing now. That's great. So those are the things God is teaching Moses in order for him to understand the answer to why, and I think we hit the crescendo of that in verse 37 and 38 and the Lord God spoken to Moses saying the heavens, they are many and they cannot be numbered unto man, but they are numbered unto me for they are mine.
Just think of that you can't even understand. It's beyond your ability to comprehend how many times I've done this, but I am capable. And they're mine. Mm-hmm. And as one earth shall pass away in the heavens thereof, even so shall uh, even so shall another come. And there is no end to my works, neither to my words.
Now understanding and knowing that, let me tell you this, for behold, this is my work and my glory to bring, to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. Now, I don't know about you, but for me, sometimes when I think of God trying to bring me to eternal life, it seems like that's a pretty big job. But it doesn't seem like that big a job when God has just told me the scale of his creations and his history of saving people.
I think in some ways what he's telling us is my purpose is to exalt Tammy and Becky and the people listening to this podcast, and I am pretty good at what I do. Oh, that hits my heart so hard. Kerry, what you said is true. Oh my gosh, I love this so much. That verse hits so differently now. I mean, I'm just thinking like, of all the things I've created and he is just saying like, well, look at all the stuff that I've done.
Yeah. And this is my work and my glory. Yeah. Not, I mean, like, I created so many, I love this Kerry, so much that Yeah, you're right. It's, it's to make sure that Becky Farley, Kerry Mulestein, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and all the listeners return to me. That's what I care about and, and I can do it like exalting you really isn't that hard compared to what I am doing.
[01:00:00] Right, right. It, it's, it's, this is easy for me and the pattern for getting there is in Moses chapter one. Like, know who you are, come up to, you're gonna hit couple of jams on the along the way and lemme just show you what I have for you. Oh my goodness. Worthy of the discussion. Just so you're all listening, we had a totally different outline plan for today's discussion.
We weren't even supposed to do all of this, but we scrapped it midway and just decided to run with Moses chapter one. 'cause we only have one segment left that we're gonna cover all of Abraham. I don't think so. Yeah. Yeah. I'll give you, you know what, I'll give you the quick version. You're gonna have to give us like the field notes.
Are the field notes. The cliff notes. Cliff notes, Uhhuh. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Because this has been awesome. Any thoughts, Becky, you wanna say? I'm glad that you are. Yes, I do. I had the thought how important and, and it's been spoken about in conference so many times, but how important this is, that we know who we are and that God is wanting to exalt us.
He is wanting us to come home to us. And I do think about like what if the world had Moses chapter one before Genesis, like how different all, all of the churches would be. All of our doctrine. A the whole doctrine almost. The whole doctrine is based right here. Like, this is who you are, this is my work, this is my glory, these are my creations, and you are my greatest creation.
Mm-hmm. You are my favorite. Like what in the world? I mean, that changes everything about what I do, who I am, how I come across to the world or my family. And it is the thing that I would wish not only my children, but all children to know and remember forever and ever, that they are God's child and that they don't have to fear.
If you just keep, keep calling upon God and you can, you can make it. Well now in the connection is so cool, Becky, because of what you said, he's content with just knowing about this earth. Like just tell me about this earth. So God's like, okay. Then he tells him, my whole goal is to get you to return to me.
And then we go into Genesis one and then that like it just makes so much sense now. And then God's like, okay, and now I'll tell you about this earth. Here's the creation story. Yep. Yep. Oh, I love this. This is so cool. So cool. Oh my goodness. Kerry, thank you for teaching us that. Yes, thank you so, and Becky, so much.
Thank you for this discussion. Okay, so that wraps up Moses one, and now we have to get into Abraham chapter three. [01:03:00] What? That's crazy. So in the last segment, Kerry is gonna give us the cliff note version. 'cause I, we need another hour obviously, but this is gonna be a really fun discussion because then we have all of a sudden Abraham chapter three, boom.
And I wanna know from Kerry, why don't you think we started with Abraham chapters one and two? Why do we skip to three? We'll do that in the next segment.
Segment 6
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I really wish that there was a part two, like we need a second hour because Abraham is gonna have just as much as Moses did. Yeah. And I'm kind of a little bit bummed. That I can't hear about. Oh yeah. Well, here's some good news. Kerry has a podcast. Everyone go listen to the scriptures are real. 'cause he's gonna just tell you everything you need to know.
So Kerry, give us a teaser. Give us the cliff notes version Yeah. Okay. Of Abraham. And I wanna know, why do you think we skipped to Abraham three in this week of Come follow me and we don't go to Abraham one like we do Moses one. Yeah. Any thoughts on that? I'm happy to talk about that. And, and, and I, I have a little bit about this in my book.
You can get some of it in my book. And then, like you said, uh, I, I, I think I've got like 45 minutes on this chapter in, in my podcast. But it seems to me that they had to make a choice. The first part of Abraham chapter three fits historically into Abraham's life. Well, all of it does. It's a story about Abraham seeing visions and he actually has it in two visions, similar to what Moses had.
Lehigh has that, we see it all over in the scriptures, like a set of two visions. In any case, we. We, we could put this where it fits in the Abraham story, but this is the chapter where we get more information about pre mortality, uh, and the, the council before the world was, and, and creation than just about anywhere else.
Mm-hmm. And so I think, I mean, I, I, I can't speak for the curriculum writers. I've, I've, uh, talked with them before. They're fantastic and, and I, I love the work they put into this and the inspiration they put into this. But I'm guessing that they decided, because this talks about intelligences that were organized before the world was that they should put this at the beginning.
Hmm. I like that. Well, and I like it in connection with the, the verse that stood out to me based on everything we've talked about in the last five segments. Then you get to Abraham three 17, there's nothing that the Lord thy God shall take in his heart to do. But what he will do it. So if it's his work and his glory to bring us back to him, he's gonna provide every means possible, every way for us to do that, beginning with the Savior in our life, Jesus Christ.
So, let's go to Abraham three and teach us what we need to know, or Cliff note version it for us. Okay. I'll give you the, the, the 30,000 foot overview here, including how verse 17 plays into that. So, okay. The first part of this, it's a vision that Abraham has that goes basically one through through 10.
Mm-hmm. And God explains to Abraham a system of astronomy where there are gradations for every planet star or any orbiting body. There's one above it and below it until you get to the one that is [01:06:00] closest to God. That one, because it is closest to God. But also the way he measures things is their, their time.
Like how long a day is, which almost feels like it's how close to eternity it is. That's how close to God it is. That puts it at the top. God is fully eternal and infinite, and so he's at the top. All right, so, but anyway, you have this gradation of planets and whichever one is closest to God, both in terms of time and.
It's actually close to God that's at the top. Then he starts a second version or vision that we get in verse 11 where it sees 'em face to face. So verse one, he's seen it through a yurman, thaman. Verse 11, he sees God face to face. Mm-hmm. And God says, okay, what I taught you about the planets, that's also true about spirits and the degree of intelligence that they have.
Now, let's be clear, I think this is intelligence as in or in other words, or light and truth, right? So it's not like how fast your synaptic relapses are firing and your intelligence quotient, it's, it's how much light and truth you have, as far as I understand it. And he says, just like with planets or stars, every single time you have one, there's someone who's above it and someone who's below it until, and we're gonna read verse 19.
In some ways, the crux of the whole chapter, and the Lord sending me these two facts do exist. So that's what he said about the planets. Two facts, meaning two, two bodies. Now he's saying facts, meaning two spirits that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other. There shall be another more intelligent than they.
I am the Lord thy God. I am more intelligent than they all. That's the crux. It's the same thing we got with the planets, right? The, the top of this hierarchy is the one nearest God, the top of the hierarchy of spirits is God. He has all light and truth, so he is more intelligent than they all. That's God's superlative.
He's that's most intelligent. Or has the fullness of light and truth, right? Yes. Now from there, it's going to transition into, it's still the same vision, but it's a third phase. So we really have two visions, three phases. First vision, first phase planets, second version, first phase, and, uh, spirits, and they're more intelligent than others.
Third phase is teaching us about our relationship with God and the whole thing, which is really interesting. But I think it, it, it's fascinating that as he's getting into that part, just before that part, he had verse 17, he needs to tell us. I can do whatever it is I wanna do because in the end, this ver this chapter is gonna be about the same thing.
Moses 1 39 was about right? Mm-hmm. So, and he wants us to know I can do that. So notice how here after he says, okay, I'm the most intelligent because I have, or in other words I have light and truth. He then says that there were intelligences before the world was, and that there were many noble and great ones.
And then we get verse 24. There stood one among them that was likened to God and he said unto those who are with them, we will go down for there is space there and we will take of these materials and we will make an earthworm on these made well, and we will prove them here with, to see if they will do all things whatsoever.
The Lord their God shall command them. Basically, if you. Obey the lightened truth God has [01:09:00] given you. He will give you more lightened truth. So we're proving you here with not because God doesn't know, but because we need the experience of being given lightened truth and acting on that so we can receive more lightened truth.
Because this is the gospel of becoming as President Oaks has taught us, right? It's the process that's important. And then he tells us in verse 26 that those who keep their first estate can have more and, and let's those who don't will lose what they have. But let's go down to, to the end of that verse.
And they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads forever. And. Ever they can receive a fullness of light and truth eventually. Right? And then he tells us that this can happen because of Christ in verse 27. But, but notice what he is telling us there. So he set up these systems where he says, okay, I'm at the top of the hierarchies, whatever way you look at it, whether it be through planets, which is really kind of the, the, the symbol he's using to teach about spirits.
But either way, I'm at the top of this. But then what he's told us after that is. You don't have to stay where you are in all these orbits. You could now we're gonna jump to it like a chemistry orbit idea, but we can jump orbits. We don't have to stay where we are. I will give you light and truth. You obey that.
Jump an orbit. Get closer to me, I'll give you more. Jump an orbit. Get closer to me. I like that. Until eventually you are with me. So Abraham chapter three is teaching us about our relationship with God and about how God wants us to join him there. And it is possible because of his son, Jesus Christ. And he reminds us, if this is what I wanna do, I can do it.
I can bring you home to me so you can be like me and be with me. Which as I said, I think is the great message of both Moses chapter one and Abraham chapter three. And I love that. Take a breath. Becky, I thought of you the whole time. He kept saying, jump an orbit. I imagine you working into that, one of your like, meditation, mindfulness retreats, because I feel like this life is just a succession of jumping orbits.
That's all we do. We're just trying to get closer to God, getting more light and knowledge, more truth. Like I loved that visual for me just jumping in orbit. Yeah, we're we're gonna get there and God's gonna help us get there. And, and he uses this whole, I mean this whole setup is amazing and as I understand it, Kerry.
Abraham's receiving this revelation right between, it's like in Genesis chapter 12 before he goes to Pharaoh. So he and, and Sarah Abram. And Sara, I have had a conversation where he's saying, okay, you're gonna have to tell everybody that you're my sister, which we get into later and you'll find out more about that.
But then he gives him this vision before going into Pharaoh and the idea is that he will teach this to Pharaoh or somehow this will come into play with being this brilliant man, teaching, talking to them in their own language with planets and stars and all of that. Is that right? Absolutely right. Yeah.
And I address that both in my book and in my podcast at, at, at great length of the podcast and, and how this works in with what we know about Egyptology and so on. But um, it's so cool. Yeah, that's exactly right. This is [01:12:00] what God wants to teach, um, Abraham, and it's what he wants to teach the Egyptians, and it's what he wants to teach us and has the book of Abraham restored to us so that we can have this truth.
God wants to teach us. He. Has all light and truth and he wants us to come and re and and enjoy that with him. Yes. And he knows you and he loves you. Yes. And he can do it. Yes. That's so cool. Wow. Kerry, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This is so fun. I just have to point out verse 13. It's one of my favorites because I remember when I was young, the first time I ever read it, I was like, oh, I'm gonna name one of my daughters Shaha and I'd love to name a daughter Aliya.
I just thought they were made up words. Then I studied Hebrew. Guess what? Those are all the Hebrew names for the Sun, the Star, the Moon and Stars. Isn't that so fun? And I'm like, oh, it's right there. The whole time I was reading Hebrew and I didn't even know that's how you say it in Hebrew. Yeah. So point that out.
Well, I'll tell you a fun thing about, so you're right, Olay and Coco and Coco Beam are all Hebrew. Shaha actually is Egyptian. And the interesting, that's neat, interesting thing is that, um, and it's associated with the sun there, that Yep. For a long time we weren't ever finding that word for Egyptian.
There was another word that seemed like maybe it would work for the sun and, and it's, it's orbit because this is about the sun, but it's in the context of all these traveling, the, the orbits, right? So mm-hmm. In the elliptical of the sun, there was another word, but, uh, my friend Steven Smoot, who's just about to finish his, uh, doctorate in, in Egyptology and, and Hebrew at, uh, Catholic University, he found out that during the Middle Kingdom, which is Abraham's life, there was a different word than they used before and after it.
And the word was shene Ha. Ah, dead bullseye. Right on right there. This is the word to describe the elliptical of the sun, which is exactly what you would expect in this setting. And it's the Egyptian e. Either Joseph Smith is the luckiest guy in the world, or he is inspired and it's, it's a lot easier to accept the inspired thing than the that lucky thing.
Yes. 1000% Joseph. Yes, for sure. Absolutely. Received this through Revelation. Very cool. Wow. Okay. Thank you. That was such a fun discussion. I love it. I felt the spirit so strong today. So just take a minute and gather your thoughts and just tell me and share with me what eternal truth did you learn as we had this discussion.
What's something new you learned or something that reconfirmed you like, oh, that is true. And I wrote down so many notes. Yeah, I've got so many, but I, I will say, the thing that really stood out to me was kind of at the end, Kerry, when you were talking about. After all of the creations, after everything, what does God care about?
He cares about exalting us. That that's how much he loves us. And then the other thing that you said that was so, um, just hit me so strongly is the [01:15:00] process is what's important. Mm-hmm. It's not the end result. And that is why I feel like repentance is so amazing. Real is that we're in the process. We're not perfectionists.
God doesn't expect perfection. He expects progress and process and, and allowing ourselves to continue to move forward with, with being a steward over ourselves and over the understanding of the ins and the outs, and the ups and the downs, and the storms that come through, and learning how to be still in those storms and recognize that God is always with us and that that's the process, not the perfect.
It was. Oh, so good. Becky, I'll Amen. What Becky said and add to it, mine was the process, the humbling and the building process. Yes. I thought that was so cool. And there it is. In plain day he humbles him and then he builds them up and I think that's what he does with us. So I thought that was so awesome and I felt the spirit so strong when you read verse 39 in context of everything we had discussed, I'm so glad we jumped ship with our outline that that was worth everything.
I felt the spirit so strong. And then Becky, I love it and I wrote this in my scriptures when we read verse 32 in Moses one, everything comes back to Christ. And you just said it like you probably didn't know you said it, but when you said, I felt the spirit so strong, I'm like, that is what we have to remember.
And if this had been at the very beginning of Genesis one, how differently we would see ourselves, I thought that was really cool when you said that. So that was, those are my two takeaway eternal truths. Absolutely. And mine is, is not far different from what I said at the beginning, but as we've been talking, I, I just keep having this image come to me.
So I'm a, I'm a pretty new temple worker. I've worked three times now and, um, and the thing that keeps coming to me again and again as I'm, as I'm working at the veil, is how much God just wants us to be with him. It's the plan. He just says, basically, he says, if you come to me the way I've asked you to, it's my plan to just bring you in here with me.
That's what I want. And, and I keep thinking about that as we're having this discussion. This is the plan. God knows what he is doing. He can do it. All we have to do is come to him in the way he's asking, and the primary way he is asking is just keep coming to him through Christ. Just keep coming. If we, whatever other stupid things we do or happens to us, if we just come to him again through Christ, he can bring us to him.
That's his plan, and he can execute his own plan. Amen. Amen. Amen. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Two. What a great discussion. I love you both. That was, that was powerful. Wow. Well, I loved being with you, Kerry. Thank you. Well, likewise. It really was fun. Well, what was your takeaway? What was your eternal truth that you learned?
[01:18:00] Oh my goodness, that discussion was awesome. Okay, go join our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram and share what you've learned at the end of the week on a Saturday. We usually post a question from this discussion, so comment on the post that relates to this discussion. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday, and go there anyway, because it's where we're gonna have links to all the references we use today, and we have a transcript of this whole discussion, so go check it out.
The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our excellent study group participants were Becky Farley and Kerry Mulestein. And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday.
Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week, and please remember. You are the superlative of superlatives. You are God's favorite.