SOM Transcript - S7E21

Season 7 Ep. 21 | Sunday on Monday

The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

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Segment 1

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Well, it's time. You guys, Moses has said his goodbyes, and he is now sending the children of Israel off into the land flowing with milk and honey, the land they have prayed for and dreamt about. So what could possibly go wrong? Easy-peasy, right? Well, not exactly. Joshua is now in charge, and this week's study of Joshua, the whole book, will teach us that the only way for the children of Israel to truly endure and enjoy this promised land is to carefully consider what and whom they will choose once they get there.

Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And if you're new to our study group, welcome. We're so glad you're joining us.

And follow the link in our description. It's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study. Just like my longtime listening friend Christine Hare. Christine, thank you for coming up and saying hi to me at Women's Conference. I loved meeting you. Now, the best thing about this study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, and sometimes one.

And this week I have one, because listen, you guys, she's a master teacher. I love this person so much, and she knows the gospel. And so I thought, "I have to have her," because we're gonna talk about a really important woman in scripture, and this friend of mine loves this woman in scripture. Welcome everybody, Jan- doctor, sorry, Dr.

Jeniece Johnson. I'm giving every woman that credit. Hi, friend. Hi. Um- It's good to be here. Good to have you here. You know your stuff. Listen, I just love learning from you. Well, I'm not a Hebrew Bible scholar, but I love the scriptures. I know. And I love Joshua, and I also hate Joshua. So there's a lot- Ooh ... to talk about.

Okay. So- This will be so awesome. And this is so fun because Jeniece and I have known each other for years, like, for a long time, and I love when we made the connection that you actually grew up in my husband's ward. And then we had a big summer party and invited all these Piedmont people, and I was like, "I really hope Jenice is coming."

You were my, you were the person that I totally knew, and I'm like, "I'm just gonna have Jenice sit with me outside." And we did. We sat outside and ate brownies. It was delightful. Yeah. Those are dear, dear friends of my- Oh ... of my parents and of all of us growing up. So yeah, it was delightful. That's awesome.

So cool. Okay. Well, if you want to know more about my guests and see their pictures, which we all do, go check out Jenice's bio. You can find that at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. I almost want to have you put in your, your CV, because if you guys could see the stuff she's done in her life, it's really impressive.

So grab your scriptures, everyone, and something to mark them with. And I'm telling you right now, I'm grabbing my scriptures, I'm grabbing something to mark them with, because we get to dig into the Book of Joshua with Dr. Jenice Johnson. Let's do it. Okay, first things first. Just tell me, what did the Holy Ghost teach you as you studied and prepared for this episode?

That unexpected is okay. Oh. Tell me more And what sometimes unexpected things teach us. And uncertainty is okay, and feeling like we're standing on uneven ground is okay, both for those anciently, but also for us today. Mm-hmm. The scripture that we're gonna talk a lot about Rahab, and there's so many things I love there, but in the f- the chapter after we talk about Rahab, we have, uh, one of my favorite scriptures, and this is in chapter three, verse five.

"And Joshua said unto the people, 'Sanctify yourselves, for tomorrow the Lord will do wonders among you.'" Hmm. And I love that. I think we'll, we'll talk a little bit more about that context- Mm-hmm ... and what makes that, I think, all the more remarkable. But this idea, like prepare yourself, sanctify. Like, make yourself holy.

Do what you can. Do your part and sit back and watch. God will do wonders among you. That is so cool. I'm writing in my scriptures right now. Janiece Johnson- And I might add- ... next to verse five ... those wonders may not look like what you expect. Oh, absolutely. And- I love that you just added that ... we're gonna, we're gonna talk about lots of unexpected things- Mm-hmm

in this narrative. Oh, so cool. Thank you for sharing that. What a beautiful scripture, and I love that. I didn't know that was your favorite scripture. That's pretty cool. Well, I, I don't do well with favorite, favorite, but- Yeah. ... that is one of my favorites. I was just gonna say that because when people say it's like choosing your favorite child, I think when my-

kids come to me and they're like, "Which kid is your favorite?" I would say to them, "You guys, it's like choosing my favorite scripture. You know how I feel about that." I have so many favorites. Exactly. Yeah. Okay, let's go to the very beginning of the Book of Joshua, and I'm going to just sort of give you an outline of what this is like.

I have this written in my scriptures for those of you listening. It just helps kind of put this into perspective of what we're dealing with with the Book of Joshua. This is one of the outlines that I love. So I have written chapters one through five is Joshua leading Israel, and his first words to them, and that's how I've, I've understood that.

Then chapters six through 12 are the battles with the Canaanites or all of the different groups and kings, all sorts of things. Then chapters 13 through 22 is Joshua dividing up the land for the 12 tribes. And when you write land, write it in all caps, 'cause that's the land that's part of the Abrahamic covenant, and we've talked about that.

The acronym LDS, land deliverance seed, this is the land part where they're gonna finally inherit the land of their inheritance. And then chapters 23 through 24 are Joshua's final speeches. So kind of know that as we go through the Book of Joshua, because we're gonna talk about each one of these sections.

And in the next segment, Janiece is going to start us out with the first part, which is Joshua leading Israel. We'll do that next

Segment 2

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All right, Janiece, take it away. What do we got here with Joshua first leading the people? So I think that just, just how the Book of Joshua starts out, we have met Joshua before. Um, the King James makes it a little tricky because sometimes he has different names. But we've met him before. He was one of the spies.

Yes. But we've got this, this transit- uh, transitional period. So now after the death of Moses, the servant of the Lord, it came to pass that the Lord spake unto Joshua, the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying, "Moses, my servant, is dead." So we're start up, and we have this r- really big flag here. This is a liminal time.

This is a transitory place. Like, we could just think of this as kind of a triumphalist narrative. Mm-hmm. But I think it's actually a lot more than that. And we s- we're gonna see this transition from Moses to Joshua, that Joshua is the new Moses. Mm-hmm. Um, and there are lots of big declarations at the beginning.

And just as a note to make sure, I, I think most of you are probably beyond where I was as a kid, but as a kid as we studied the Old Testament, I always thought Moses failed. Mm. I thought that was really sad that he was stuck with them for 40 years and then didn't get to see the Promised Land. Yeah. But restoration scripture, Section 84 in the Doctrine and Covenants, teaches us that Moses didn't fail.

He did what he was supposed to do, but the people were not ready- Yeah ... for the whole of the oath and covenant of the priesthood and all of those Melchizedek priesthood covenants. So the Lord pulled that Melchizedek priesthood, and they, they wandered. But Moses did exactly what he was supposed to do. This is not Moses' failure.

And the fact that he was translated tells- Yeah ... us enough. Like, he was no failure at all, and that he had more work to do. Yes. And we know he does in Section 110 of the Doctrine and Covenants. You can put that at the end of Deuteronomy 34 if you'd like, 'cause then he does appear to Joseph Smith, so I love that you brought that up.

And I love that you said that Joshua is a new Moses. That is so important for people to write somewhere on their page, because when I learned that, it kind of opened my mind when I realized, oh, my goodness, isn't it amazing that then Joshua does sort of the same things that Moses did with the people at the very beginning.

He's like, w- I- I wonder if any part of him was like, "Well, I'm just gonna do what I know works." And so he tells them to keep the commandments. He crosses the River Jordan miraculously. Uh, he even sends spies, as he was... I mean, I love that you pointed out he was one of the spies, 'cause he'll send spies, and so I just think it's cool.

Like, he really is maybe just doing what was done, 'cause it worked, and it's hopefully gonna work now. New Moses. Um, and I think, but I, and I think the text gives us hints at just how maybe uncertain Joshua is about how this is gonna go. Oh, I like that. Or... Yeah, um, so if we look at these verses, so we have the Lord speaking to Joshua, "Go over this Jordan, thou and all thy people into the land which I given to them, even to the children of Israel."

And this is this promise of the Promised Land. Mm-hmm. Now, we're gonna talk about what that, what that might mean later, but this is a promise that, "I am your God, and I am the God of Israel." Mm-hmm. "I am the one on which you can rely." And the Lord also says to Joshua in verse five, "There shall not be any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life as I was with Moses."

So you may surround yourselves with people, with mortals, but none of them are gonna last. None of them are going to endure, but I will be here with you, like- Mm ... like I was with Moses. "I will be with thee. I will not fail thee nor forsake thee." This is in verse five. And then as the verses continue, we have this repetition, "Be strong and of good courage," in verse six.

In verse seven, "Only be thou strong and very courageous." In verse nine, "Have not I commanded thee, be strong and have good courage." I don't know. If I'm Joshua, that could freak me out a little bit. Yeah. Like, why is God telling me I have to be strong and of good courage? Like, what, what lies ahead? And then this promise that they will possess the land, and that again, we get that, that repetition.

Mm-hmm. Now, as chapter two begins, we, we transition a little. And the way chapter one is presented to us, it is like a history. It, it seems like here we've got this record of God speaking with Joshua. And then we could read chapter two as a continuation of that history. But there are some really interesting elements to the story that maybe signal to us that our genre has shifted a little bit.

Mm. Or maybe we don't read this as a straight history. Oh, I like that. Okay, Janiece, so then let's do this. In the next segment, lead us in to maybe what this new narrative is. Maybe it is a separate story. I love how you just said that. Because as I'm looking at these verses, I don't know, Joshua 1, I love that you pointed out, "Be strong and of good courage.

Be strong and of good courage," again in verse nine. And then Joshua 1:18 ends with that again, to be strong and of a good courage. And so I kind of think it's cool how you're th- setting this up. Like, here's, here's this point, and now we might have a whole new story. And the Lord is preparing them for what's to come.

I almost kind of think, like, I don't know, when you were talking about that, I was just thinking of what it w- may have been like in pre-earth life, if maybe that's what the Lord is saying to us. "Be strong and have a good courage, and don't be afraid, 'cause what's coming is crazy. You're not gonna believe what you're gonna have to go through down there.

So I just need you to be strong and have good courage, 'cause it's gonna be nuts." And so in the next segment, Janiece is gonna talk to us about that nuts and the hard part that came up for the children of Israel. We'll do that next.

Segment 3

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All right, teach us the story, Janiece. Here we go, segment two. I'm so excited. We have spies. What's going on here? Okay. So chapter two starts out, in the first two verses we're introduced to these spies. Joshua sent out two men to spy secretly, saying, "Go view the land, even Jericho." And they went and came unto the, a harlot's house named Rahab and lodged there.

We'll get back to Rahab in a minute. But I want to start out talking about these spies, because I think one of the major themes, we could call it the genre, of, of Joshua 2 is irony. Okay We, Joshua sends out spies. We may accept that they are as skillful with their spycraft as Joshua and Caleb were, yet that, those are not the spies we get.

Verse two. I love your reading of this. And it was told the king of Jericho, saying, "Behold, there came men in hither to the night of the children of Israel to search out the country." In two verses they've been found out. So these are not, this is not, this is not James Bond. This is not spycraft. This is not Mission Impossible.

This is, this is not Mission Impossible. This, these are bumbling spies. See, there are, there are very definite comedic elements to the story. Oh, I love it. So the spies are not successful, and e- any spy that's found out in two verses is not gonna get another assignment. Because clearly they can't do the job.

But they come to Rahab- Mm-hmm ... and that's gonna change everything. And just as a little footnote here, so in our English scriptures, there are two different Rahabs. Mm-hmm. The Hebrew for those two different Rahabs is different. So we have Rahab, which shows up in Isaiah and Psalms, and then even in 2 Nephi we get another reference to Rahab, and this is a chaos sea monster.

Mm-hmm. So this is in the Babylonian Parthenon of gods. We have Tiamat, who is the goddess of chaos, and she has two monsters, Rahab and Leviathan, and they rule the sea and perpetuate chaos. And so we'll see that chaos sea monster c- shows up in Isaiah. When, when Nephi is quoting Isaiah, we, we see it again.

Shows up in the Psalms. But that is actually a different Hebrew word than Rahab's name. Rakav is the, the Hebrew word. Mm-hmm. You could probably pronounce that better than I did, Tammy. Um, but- You did great ... but we see her in Joshua, and then she also shows up in the New Testament praising her. Mm-hmm. And perhaps her is, her name is a shortened version of God has enlarged.

Mm-hmm. But that tells us something. Names, of course, in the Hebrew Bible tell us something about the story and tell us about how things are proceeding. And, and we're seeing here how the children of Israel are going to adopt Rahab, and how God, the idea of who can be in the covenant is going to be enlarged here.

Oh, that is so cool, because I think we all need to be reminded of that. God does enlarge who gets to be part of the covenant. 'Cause I always think, and I remember when I first started teaching seminary- I c- my viewpoint of the gospel was so narrow, and I can remember a seminary teacher saying to me, "You know when all is said and done, there's gonna be a lot of surprised Mormons up in heaven."

And I was like, "What do you mean?" And he goes, "You, what do you think about the gospel?" It was just one of the best conversations I've ever had. He says, "There'll be a lot of surprised members of the church about who makes it and who doesn't." And I think of that right now, like God enlarges who gets to be in the covenant.

That's beautiful, Jenice. I love that you said that. And Rahab- 'Cause he does that with the story of Rahab, like blows it out of the water ... and, and we are sur- we are surprised- Mm-hmm ... and surprised. We're surprised that the spies are not effective, that they're- Yeah ... bumbling. And I, and I think to, to be, and not to be too critical of the spies, but I think they could just be, you know, teaches about ourselves as kind of bumbling mortals.

Like- Yeah ... you know, we read scripture and we don't get perfect people. We get spies who fail. We get apostles who aren't really sure if Jesus is the Christ for a very long time. Mm-hmm. You know, have lots of questions and fa- uh, you know, we, we have stories of people who fail just like we do- Yeah ... at times.

We trip and we say the wrong thing. We, we know we should do something, we don't do it. Maybe it takes us longer than it should to do something. But- Oh, I like that you said that, because we, that's who we want to believe in. That's who we want to read about, and it's almost like we want ... Sometimes we go into the scriptures and, and apply them like it's the Zeus chronology, like the story of all- Yeah

those gods, but they're not. I love that, Jenice. They're just normal people who are teaching us life skills. That's cool. Yeah. And, and Rahab is both ... I mean, r- I, I love Rahab because she both is one of those limited mortals- Mm-hmm ... but she also becomes a symbol of the savior that will come. Mm-hmm. And, and the bumbling spies even get to take part in that salvation offered.

Like, it's just this beautiful story to te- to teach us about ... There's so many things it can teach us about. But let's start with who Rahab is. Okay. So here in the King James, she's called a harlot. The Hebrew is zona. That is clearly a harlot. Yep. She is a member of the world's oldest profession. Um, she owns a public house.

We don't know about the timeline there. Maybe she's left that, but she still owns this public house, but she is an outsider. She is not an Israelite. She's a prostitute, or was a prostitute, and even the placement of her house is literally on the outskirts of the city, on this outside city wall. So even within Jericho, she is on the outskirts.

So we have these stories of the matriarchs, and Sarah, and Rebecca, and Rachel, and Leah, and, and they get lifted up. But also in the Jewish tradition, in the rabbinic tradition, we have women of valor who don't fit that kind of central matriarchal role, and Rahab is one of those. She is a consummate outsider.

She is never the person that someone would expect. Right. And I think that that's really beautiful. I think sometimes, I don't know, I've heard people say, like, "Well, they look like they'd be a perfect Latter-day Saint." Yeah. And I would like to propose that we never know what that looks like. Correct. That we never, that, that bringing someone into the gospel covenant has the potential to change their lives, and the person who may look like they've got it all together maybe doesn't have a need.

Yeah. And we don't know the state of someone's heart. We don't know where they are, where, who's gonna be ready. And, a- I think I've shared this, I hopefully, not with, with your audience, Tammy, but here, but this image just came into my mind of when I, um, so I did my PhD in England, and I was in the London temple district, but I was kind of halfway between London and Preston.

And so a few times I went up to Preston to the temple, and this one time when I went to Preston to the temple, there was a man there in the session who was receiving his endowment who had serious face tattoos. Hmm. Um, I don't consider myself a pretty judgy person, but it was shocking to me, and maybe face tattoos have a different level of shock for me than, than other tattoos.

But it was a really fascinating juxtaposition. Absolutely. This man who looked nothing like someone that I would expect to be in the temple was the one who was there with his heart open, wanting to receive those blessings from the Lord, and to make those covenants with the Lord. Hmm. The Lord doesn't just work with the people that we expect.

I would think most often the people who are ready are not the ones that we expect. Yeah. And, and Rahab totally fits, fits into this. Also, just as another note here, in the Deuteronomist's history, prostitution is also used as a metaphor for worshiping false gods. Yeah. So it could also be this point to pointing to the idolatry of the Canaanites, and maybe that's an added layer on this, this label that she is given.

So this woman of valor is not the one we expect. So I want to, let's, let's look at, so the king has found out in two verses that those spies were there. But they went to the right woman. They went to Rahab, and they lodged the, to her house, and they lodged there. So verse w- three through seven talk to us about, um, Rahab's response to the king.

S- so the King of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying, "Bring forth the men that are come to thee, which are entered into thine house, for they be come to search out all the country." There is no question there with those guards or whomever is sent to Rahab's house. Mm-hmm. They are the king's guards. This is her response to the king.

And he knows they're there, and she lies straight to his face. Yeah. Risking her life. I mean, straight to their face. Yeah. Uh, uh, she lies. Um, Josephus will say if she had been caught concealing them, she could not have escaped a terrible s- destruction, she and all of her family with her. Yeah. Um, and I think that that's something for us to remember about so many narratives in the Bible.

Like t- thinking about you are never, an ordinary person is never on the same level with a king or with any royalty. Yeah. The queens even aren't on the same level- No, they're not ... with kings. And this is not an equitable pairing, and you just say, "No, I do not consent," or, "No, I don't want this." You know, like, that's, that's not the same thing.

She is risking her life to hide these men. She took them, she hid them, and she says, "There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were. And it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate," when it was dark. So the, the s- the king's guard goes out, and then the gate gets shut. Mm-hmm. And so the men are safe.

She's, she had brought them up onto the roof of her house, hid them with the stalks of flax which she had laid in order upon the roof. Now, the flax is kind of an interesting, you can use flax to weave rope. Mm-hmm. And the rope is gonna play an important role later, and maybe that is rope that she has crafted or someone else in her family has s- spun and created.

So she protects the men at great risk. Yeah. And when she hides them- Mm-hmm ... um, it's in verse six, with the stalks of flax. Tsitseyono is the Hebrew word there. This is a literary allusion to Exodus 2:2 when Moses' mother hides him. There is a direct allusion that in hiding these spies, these bumbling spies, who she could have just let out to dry and probably been praised by the king for her, you know, dedication to the, to the cause of, of Jericho, but she is doing something holy.

Yeah. There is something holy and sacred in this hiding. I also, it made me think about, so there, there are a number of different stories about, in our own more recent church history about people hiding Joseph Smith, particularly during the Missouri period. Mm-hmm. And Anne Marsh Abbott, um, hid him at one point, and she was, she was feeling bad about it.

And she tells Joseph, like, "I lied." Like, "I, I feel bad about this." And Joseph's response was, "There are white lies, and there are Black lies." Like, Black lies are the kind that darken your soul. This one is one that helped protect me, you know? Oh, wow. That this, this is- That's a good story ... that there is some, w- there, there, not all- Mm-hmm

lies are equal. Um, so but there's something, that language there and that allusion to- Mm-hmm ... Exodus, that there is something holy that she is doing in, in hiding them. And then let's look at verse nine. So, so I love this because here we have Rahab's interactions with the men. She said unto the men, "I know."

Now we're gonna, we're gonna go through to, we'll read nine through 11, but I want you to pay d- attention to the pronouns. Okay. Because we start with I, and then we transition to we. Okay. And think about what Rahab is doing there with transitioning from I to we. She said unto the men, "I know that the Lord hath given you the land, that your terror has fallen upon us and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you."

She says, "Look, I..." And then she continues, "We have heard." Now that transition. Mm-hmm. "I know, but we have heard how the Lord dried up the water of the Red Sea for you when you came out of Egypt, what you did to the two kings of the Amorites that were on the other side of Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed."

So we have heard of these great conquests. Um, but I know that you've been successful in these conquests because the Lord has given you the land. So, A, she's echoing what the Lord told Joshua in our previous chapter. I know, I recognize this thing, that the Lord has given you this land. And then she said, "We," so the testimony that all the people have heard about what's going on.

So it's not just maybe, um, Rahab's who was paying attention to that. But then in verse 11, "As soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt." I think it's the, she's first talking about herself- Mm-hmm ... and her own experience. But very astutely, she transitions to include we, expands- Mm-hmm ... this to her whole family.

Yeah. "We have heard these things. Our hearts did melt. Neither did there remain any more courage in any man because of you, for the Lord your God, He is God in Heaven above and in the earth beneath." That is a beautiful witness that we have from Rahab, the most unexpected woman. Mm-hmm. This is, this is not one of the central matriarchs that we're gonna expect her witness of the Lord.

But, um, He is the God in Heaven above and the earth beneath. And I, I like Robert Alter's translation here is, "We heard and our heart failed." Hmm. "And no spirit arose in any man before you, for the Lord your God." And it makes me think about a broken heart and a contrite spirit. I like that. Then the Psalm, in Psalm 34 it says, "The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart.

And saveth such as be of a contrite spirit." Sometimes we try to collapse broken heart and contrite spirit, but I think it's useful. Like a broken heart, our hearts failed. Like this is, we, we recognize that we have this distance from God. I think it's not unlike like the, you know, person you're dating or you know- Yeah

you have a relationship and your heart is broken when you break up because of the loss of relationship. You no longer have that confidence in that relationship. And when our hearts are broken, they're also pliable. Mm-hmm. And then contrition is that we're willing to do whatever we can, um, to, to get that, gain that relationship.

And here Rahab acknowledges that her heart has been changed, and she's gonna include her whole family in this conversion. That as they've seen these things, it has testified to them. Their hearts are open and ready to, to be changed. I love how you just described their hearts and how they were pliable, and now God can do something with them.

And I think He's been preparing them for this moment, even sending in these spies that there is a possibility that she could have this conversation with them that she's going to have, and we'll do that in the next segment.

Segment 4

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Okay, Janiece, here we are. We've got Rahab. We have these pliable hearts. We have these people. She and her family are converted, and they're in a sticky situation because she's also hiding these spies. Tell us what she does and what she asks for with this broken heart. Um- This melted heart. I love the melted heart.

I think that's great. Yeah. Our hearts, our hearts did melt. Um, so I think that she sees an opportunity here. Um, and, and we could, we could read this as transactional, but I think that there are ... This is not just a woman who wants to escape the inevitable, you know, seeing that they're going to conquer the land.

Um, but this is a woman who wants to join the covenant people, and she sees an opportunity. So this conversation as it continues, verses 12 through 14, she says, "Now therefore I pray you, swear unto me by the Lord, I have showed you kindness, shewed you kindness." This is, this kindness is hesed. Yeah. So I- It's so fun

have showed you loving, loving kindness. We've got a few different ... So the NRSV says, "I have dealt kindly." The NIV says, "I have shown kindness." So this, this word, hesed, covenantal kindness. Mm-hmm. Um, I have showed you kindness, that you will also show kindness into my father's house and give me a true token.

She sets this up as a covenant. Yeah. I want you ... I have given this hesed. I have given this loving kindness to you, and I want you to offer it to me too. I'm gonna give you this opportunity to- Yeah ... offer it to me too. Which is the root and the heart of, of covenants and the word hesed, this idea of it's reciprocal, and it is with the Lord.

And I think sometimes though we get caught up in this idea that that must mean I have to do more, I have to do more, and then the Lord will give me more, and it's not. He's saying, you've entered into this covenant with me, and because of that and because you are who you are, then I will reciprocate back like this hesed.

I love, I think it teaches so beautifully in verse 12, because I showed you hesed, will you please show me hesed? I think you could even, that's a prayer you could pray to Heavenly Father at night. I've done all I can to be kind. Can you please be ki- ... You know, just I love that idea right there. It's, I think verse 12 is the perfect explanation of hesed.

And so this true token that she asks for- Mm-hmm ... that you will save alive my father, and my mother, and my brother, and my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death. Yeah. So I don't want you to just pull my, my family's bodies from the wreckage and feel like you have transactionally accomplished what was asked.

Save them alive. Mm-hmm. Save us. And as she asks for, has said from them, she is also showing her faith in God that God will extend this loving kindness to her even if the spies fail. Yeah. This is reciprocal just like our relationships and our oaths with God are always ... We think about the oath and covenant of the priesthood.

The oath is the part that God fulfills. Like, these are always reciprocal. Mm-hmm. She showed them loving kindness, special benevolence, and asks for it in return. And then I love, this is my favorite thing. Well, I have two favorite things- ... that the spies actually say. Okay. We've got ... They, their voices come up here.

The men answered her, this is verse 14, "Our life for yours." Hmm. "If you utter not this our business, it shall be, when the Lord hath given us the land, that we will deal kindly and truly with thee." And so w- as she's secured that promise, she has opened her, her home and her heart to them. She has risked her life, her position, her everything to, to help them, and will they return it?

And I think we can look at this both in terms of physical but also spiritual safety with, with the people of God. This is what she wants. And they say, "We will be bound to that. Our life for yours." I love that you pointed out 14, 'cause I, I've never considered this, but just how you set up this whole storyline with Rahab now, those four words right there mean so much to me because we have these two Israelites saying, "Our covenant-keeping, God-loving, God-fearing life for a harlot's life?"

What? That's unbelievable. 'Cause they could have so been like, "Yeah, sorry, you're gross. Yeah, you're, we're, no, we can't enter into a, any kind of covenant or agreement with a prostitute." What? Like, it's beautiful. Well, and likewise, sh- Rahab could have said, "You suck as spies. Why am I gonna put my family's lives- There's that too

in your hands?" Yes. Yes. You know? Like, it works- The trust ... both ways. Like, we've got limited mortals all around, and that they're going to covenant and trust- Yeah ... that, and this is because the God of Israel gives them that ability to believe- Yeah, I love it ... and to have, have faith, and that even if the mortals fail, God will come through.

Yeah. And all of this- Oh, it's so good ... is about who the true God is, that the- That is- ... children of Israel's God is, is God, is Jehovah. Yeah, absolutely. Is. Um, and then she tells them, so she lets them down by cord. So here's that, that maybe flax- That rope, yeah ... cord, um, that shows up for the window, and it was d- we're, we already know, well, I've already told you that her house was on the town wall, but this- Mm-hmm

is where we got that bit. And then she tells them where to go. So she not only just gets them out of the city, but she says, "Go this direction. You're gonna go, be going in an opposite direction from where the king's guards went." Mm-hmm. "This is how you're going to be safe." And the men said unto her, "We will be blameless of thine oath which thou hast made us swear."

They are going to live up to this. They are not going to, to fail. And then sh- they say, "Behold, when we come unto this land," this is verse 18, "thou shalt bind this line of scarlet thread," so now we get a color, that the thread, the cord, is scarlet- Mm-hmm ... "in the window which thou didst let us down by: and thou shalt bring thy father, and thy mother, and thy brethren, and all thy father's household home unto thee."

So this is going to be the signal. Mm-hmm. For the early church fathers, the fact this was scarlet put Rahab as a type of Christ. Beautiful. I think that we don't often think of women as types of Christ. Right. But that scarlet rope represents hi- Christ's atonement. There are even some early Christian mosaics that have very much this story lined up, and the wall of Jericho, and the red- thread hanging down with Christ and armies.

Like- Mm-hmm ... like they very much see this parallel, that Rahab is Christ offering salvation, and then likewise, the spies will offer that too. Well, and don't you love so much that the word cord in verse 15 is not the same as the word line, scarlet line, in verse 18 and 21 in Hebrew? 'Cause in cord it is a rope, but line in 18 and 21 in Hebrew is tikvah, which also means hope.

And so the scarlet hope, and just like you taught us, she is a type of Christ, and the, the idea that hope comes and the sc- the color scarlet being the atonement, that's where the hope's coming from is Him. So I love that you've taught us that it is, she is a type of Christ. It's so cool. So we'll skip down a few more verses.

But for 24, so the last verse of chapter two, the spies finally get back to Joshua. And listen to these words. See if you recognize these words: "Truly the Lord hath delivered into our hands all the land, for even all the inhabitants of the country do faint because of us." Who said that? They're quoting Rahab.

Love that. That is awesome. So the, the message that they- Mm ... end up giving to Joshua is not what, "Oh, we're super successful," but they're actually, they are repeating, they are adding another witness to Rahab's witness. And that- That's so cool ... that they can, they can do this thing. Because I think the irony of this chapter is really heavy.

This is not, th- this is a woman literally on the margins. Mm-hmm. This is never the woman you would ex- expect. The spies are not what you would hope for. Um, yet salvation is all over this narrative. Yeah. And I think that that's really, really beautiful. Um, when we get to chapter six, the spies go in, they brought out Rahab, her father, this is in 6:23, her mother and her brethren and all that she had.

They brought out her, all her kindred, and left them without the ca- camp of Israel. And then in verse 25 says, "They dwelled in Israel even unto this day." Um, the Hebrew really mean, says in the midst of. Like this is not, again, this is not just a transactional thing. This is not- Yeah ... just talking about physical salvation, but they are now, they have been adopted in.

They are now an essential part of the House of Israel. And that's- So cool ... going to endure. We're gonna, we're, and we're gonna get reminders of that in the New Testament. But I just, I love this story, and signaling to us because it happens so not in the way that we expect. Right. And it so strongly signals to us the sufficiency of God's grace for all of us, that even Rahab, this very limited, sinful mortal, has the opportunity to change and to represent Christ, and to extend salvation to others.

And just echoing what you've taught us, I feel like this is the whole message of this entire book of Joshua. I'm gonna write it at the front of my book. God enlarges who gets to be in the covenant. That's my favorite thing- Yeah ... you've ever said. That is so brilliant, Jenice. I love it. That's, that is such a great message, so thank you.

Thank you for teaching us about Rahab. Wow. Well, and I think that salvation comes from the unexpected. Yes. Like Isaiah prophesied that Christ would be one with no form nor comeliness. You know, maybe we get used to our, like, Jonathan Roumie, um, the chosen- Mm-hmm ... Jesus. Yeah. Or we're used to our, you know, there, there are about a whole bunch of AI smiling Jesuses out there who look like-

they could also be, you know, models currently. Yeah. But Isaiah said this is one with no form nor comeliness. This is not- Yeah ... who the world expected salvation to come through. Yeah. And it works that way for us. We have, uh, Obadiah will talk about being saviors on Mount Zion, with a lowercase S. You know, that we have the opportunity, all of us have the opportunity to take part in this grand plan of salvation.

Yeah. No matter how limited we are, if we turn our hearts to God, if our hearts melt- Mm-hmm ... if our hearts are open and we want to change, we're in. Absolutely. And we can be adopted in, and we can become a critical part of, of the Lord's work. And, um, and that's really beautiful to me. I agree. So beautiful.

Wow. Thank you. Okay, so that, that right there, that's Joshua. That's the intro, the first five chapters. So in the next segment, Jenice is gonna get us into chapter 6 through 12, the war chapters, the battles, and she's got things to say. We'll do that next.

Segment 5

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Let's go into Joshua. Turn to Joshua chapter 6, 'cause 6 through 12 are wars. There's battles after battle, kings, all the things. So Janiece, talk to us about these chapters. Okay. So I want to just, just a little segue from chapter two to here. Great. Because we could read it separately as a different kind of story- Mm-hmm

but I think that there's continuity here. Um, Rahab fulfills the role that she does. She is, this woman on the margins opens up the Promised Land for the children of Israel. I think that that is such a remarkable thing. We have, in the 19th century, when African American women are being excluded from many churches, they took on Rahab as a persona.

Hmm. So some people would try to equate and say that, "Oh, the Canaanites are like Black people." This is a really convoluted, nonsensical argument. Mm-hmm. Um, misunderstanding Cain and Canaan, and that, so those are very different things. Absolutely. But they would, Black women who would say, "No, we're like Rahab.

Like, we may be on the margins, but we are a part of the gospel. We are part of the covenant people." And I think that that's really beautiful, that, you know, it's easy for us to read the Hebrew Bible focused on the 613 laws of the Mosaic law, you know, 613 commandments of the Mosaic law. Mm-hmm. But I would also remind us, like, the word heart is in the Hebrew Bible, like, more than 800 times.

Oh, yeah. If we're, if we're missing that, we're missing a really significant part. If all we see is the destruction, uh, we're- we're missing a part here. And, and this, remember, we started out, are we making this transition? Is Joshua gonna be the new Moses? And so we have this question in this liminal time. Is he gonna be able to take up the reins, and is he going to be the new prophet?

And through this period, we learn that just as God was with Moses, God will be with Joshua. Mm-hmm. We learn that as the Spirit had been with Moses, so would it be handed to Joshua, that he is going to continue that, and that just as Moses miraculously led the children of Israel out of Egypt on dry ground as they crossed the Red Sea, Joshua miraculously leads the Israelites on dry ground across the water, the River Jordan, into the Land of Promise.

Yeah. So it is solidified here that Joshua, that there is that cond- continuity of prophecy, that Joshua is that new Moses. Mm-hmm. So sometimes we just expect that, but the, the text is helping us see, see this transition. And I don't know, I think we all have to, we all have to go through that when someone new, you know, when we get a new bishop or a new Relief Society president or a new apostle is called or a new prophet- Mm-hmm

you know, it's, it takes time. I remember when President Monson became prophet, and I'm almost embarrassed to say this now- I think many people who know what you're gonna say- Because he's just such- ... and agree. ... such a dear, sweet man- Yeah ... but perhaps didn't have the theological, um, I don't know, maturity that I wanted.

You know, he was a storyteller. Yeah. But, um, actually not very long after he was called, uh, a friend asked me to substitute a Teachings of the Living Prophets class- Oh, yeah ... that was talking about him. Oh, interesting. And it was, my preparation for that class was just, was a really remarkable thing that still kind of sits on my heart today.

Mm. As I saw my heart soften, uh, I saw, I could see how he had been prepared to lead the church at that time. Yeah. I also saw how President Nelson was led to, to lead the church at a time that we so desperately needed him. But th- those transitions are hard, and the Lord knows those transitions are hard.

Yeah. And when our hearts are open, he's gonna help us have faith and trust when new leaders are called. And here he's, he's showing the people of Israel, "This guy's mine." Mm-hmm. "He's, he's leading you like Moses did." Yeah. "You're okay. You, you may still be mourning the loss of Moses- Yeah. Be strong- But- ... be of good courage.

Do not fear. I love how you even added that in. Don't fear, like I got you. Yeah. This- To Joshua and the people ... be strong and of good courage. Mm-hmm. Keep, yeah, to Joshua and to, and to all of them. And, and we're gonna have that, so that verse that we started with today, but sanctify yourselves, prepare yourselves, make yourselves holy.

Mm-hmm. Make sure that your relationship with me is where it needs to be. And tomorrow the Lord will do wonders among you. Yeah. Um, such a, such a beautiful thing. Now, we, I wanna s- shift gears a little bit. Okay. And maybe not talk quite so specifically about verses, but talk about kind of this, the conquest of Canaan.

Yeah, give us a summation. Talk to us about that. So I'm a historian, American religious historian, so I went to divinity school, so I've had some, you know, graduate scripture classes and, and love, love scripture. But I have also spent most of my career working on the Mountain Meadows Massacre, and studying extreme violence.

And just as a little side note, as people would hear when I was working on this project for the, for the church, and then later this became my dissertation and a book based on my dissertation. But people would say, "Oh, you're working for the church. Like, you're gonna tell us h- what really happened." And it was almost like they were intimating, like, how this is not so bad.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And like, nope, bad. Like- It was bad ... it was bad. There's- Mm-hmm ... there's no way to explain it away. There is no way. I, I think by understanding the context and the more we learn about hard things, we can better understand how they could happen. Mm-hmm. But that doesn't ever mean that they should have happened.

Hmm. And the 19th century was a violent place, and violence begets violence. We also get a lot of violence in the Hebrew Bible. Yeah. And, and sometimes, you know, we do activities with kids about walls coming down and, you know, circling around, and we f- forget or ignore the violence that is inherent within that.

This, this idea that they're wiping out every living thing, um, is not something that should go down easily with us. Hmm. And I just wanna talk about a couple possibilities that might help us better understand this. Please. Just as one note, so we're gonna, Joshua's gonna talk about the conquest of Canaan, their entrance into the Promised Land, and that all the Canaanites are gone.

Yet, if we're careful readers of scripture, we're gonna get to Judges- Mm-hmm ... and the whole Book of Judges is, is about them dealing with Canaanites. Yeah. Who apparently were all la- wiped out in Joshua. So there is a disconnect here that- Right ... is important. So Judges 1 Concludes with a list of 20 cities which shows where there are people inhabiting those cities, so that the, they were not wiped out by the newcomers.

Okay. So it gives us a different structure. The list includes, like, Jerusalem, and Beth-shean, and Tanach, and Doron, Ibleam, and a, a whole bunch of places that are, are important c- cities. And yet in Joshua 12, it tells us that many of those cities were destroyed completely. Yeah. So what do you think is going on here?

I, and I think this is an important question. If the Israelites did not actually kill and slaughter every man, woman, and child, then why would they portray them as, as that they did? And there are a number of different theories to kind of think about this and understand, but one that is most compelling to me is this idea that there are th- there is this genre, this convention of Near Eastern conquest narratives.

Hmm. So basically, it's hyperbole. It's- Yeah ... it's using this exaggerated language to say, "My god is better than your god." If we're reading this metaphorically, it testifies to us that the God of Israel is all-powerful. Mm-hmm. That is an important lesson. We need that lesson. But perhaps it doesn't suggest that the God of Israel wants us to wipe out another people.

Yeah. I like the hyperbole approach so much. And maybe this suggests to us that this should be conventional language rather than, like, a historical, a literal historical report of what happened. Mm-hmm. I like that. Um, talking a- these are battles between different nations, so remember we're talking about polytheistic, a whole bunch of different civilizations with different gods, and this is a battle, my god is better than your god.

Yeah. So Joshua's a witness that God is fully successful. That is the, I think the most important message for us to get out of this. Mm, I like that. That Yahweh is the God of Israel, and Yahweh is the god to rely on. And just one little example that is really compelling for me, so there is this Merneptah, um, stele that, it's Egyptian.

It's dating from 1207 BC, so this is about the same period of Joshua and Judges. This is an Egyptian account of a military campaign into Canaan, and it depicts Egypt as utterly destroying its foes. One of the foes named in this destruction is indicated to be a people named Israel. Hmm. Israel is laid waste, and his seed is not.

Now, we know very well that Israel is not wiped out and gone- Right ... in 1207 BC. But th- this is another one of those kind of totalizing narratives, like my god is better than your god. Mm-hmm. It's, and so it's to testify something to us. But also, if we read the text, the text can give us some hints. So one, the, the kind of easiest way to read it is this conquest, that everything is wiped out.

But the other way is it's a gradual process of settlement and conflict, and it's kind of this gradual thing. And if we're reading it carefully, we can actually see both, both narratives going on at the same time. And so I think that that's really, really important for us to think about. I do not believe that God commands genocide.

I think that is a great way to look at that, and I agree with you. And, and asking some hard questions helps us to kind of be able to read this with more nuance. And, and again, maybe this transitions us a little from reading this as a straight literal historical account. Mm-hmm. But it remains a narrative that gives us so many lessons.

Yeah. And ultimately, those lessons about who God is- Mm-hmm ... and the power that God has in our lives, that God can do wonders among us. Well, and I, Jenice, I so appreciate the way that you've just talked about these chapters, which can be tricky. And I love how you said God does not command a genocide, that the whole point and purpose, I agree with you, of Joshua is, and I love it, I wrote it down, Yahweh is successful.

Our God is a God who saves. And I love the idea that this book that contains so much death is called the Book of Joshua, which in Hebrew is Yehoshua, which means God is salvation or the Lord saves. I, I love that play on words right there. Like, this whole book is about a Lord who saves. And he saves based on what you shared.

Again, your favorite scripture. He saves those who sanctify themselves, for the Lord will do wonders among them. And that's what we need to look for, are the, the wonders, the miracles, the things that he's doing to prove to us that he is a God who saves. I, and that seems to be one of the things you love to talk about.

I've had you on before, and that is one of your burning testimonies, that God is a God who saves, that God is a God of his word, and, um, I've loved that about you, so thank you so much. Thanks for teaching that. That was really powerful. Awesome. Okay, so in the next segment then, in the last segment, we're gonna dive into some of Joshua's very last words to the children of Israel.

We'll do that next.

Segment 6

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We are gonna finish this wonderful, awesome discussion today of a God who is successful. I just love it so much. And here's Joshua. He has his last final words to us. Let's just look at Joshua chapter 23, and we wanna look at verse one because we learn something about Joshua in his final words. Janiece, will you read verse one?

Sure. "And it came to pass a long time after that the Lord had given rest unto Israel from all their enemies round about that Joshua waxed old and stricken in age." Now, chapter 24 verse 29 will tell you he's 110 years old, so he's old, and he's tired. I do love that it says that he gave the children of Israel rest.

You can go back and cross-reference that, uh, because he gives them rest in chapter 21, and then he says again in chapter 22, he gives them rest from warring, all of the things. So these people have had p- a time of peace. They're at rest. Joshua's old. He calls all of Israel together, and here's what he's gonna say to them.

And he goes back to how he started. I love in verse six, "Therefore, be very courageous. Keep and do all that is written in the book of the Moses." So he's just re-saying what he said before. Remember I, I told you about this, and I'm reminding you of this. But then he adds something new, and it's in verse... Uh, there's a word in verse eight and verse 12 that I wanna talk about, and here's why.

Some- here's a fun fact about Janiece, and I actually... this is a true story. This actually happened a couple of months ago. I was talking to someone who Janiece and I both know, and we were just going on about how much we love you, and then this is what the person said to me: "Yeah, but every time I talk to her, I feel like I need to go get a dictionary and look up words she said."

And I said, "100%." I learn a new vocabulary word every time I talk to Janiece. Oh, come on. It is so true. You are so smart, and you're a wordy. Like, you love words. That's my favorite thing about you. And so when I got to this word, I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna have to have Janiece talk about this word," because it's dupli- there's two meanings, and we always like to side with the soft meaning, but the hard meaning might be even more awesome.

So let's read these verses. We're gonna read what Joshua has to say in verse eight, and then I want us to mark it in verse 12. So go ahead and read verse eight, and then I'll go to verse 12. "But cleave unto the Lord your God as you have done unto this day." There it is. Circle the word cleave. And then in verse 12 he says, "Else, if you do in any wise go back and cleave unto the remnant of these nations, even that these remain among you, you shall make m-," and then he goes on to warn them.

Okay. Talk to me about the word cleave because we always wanna say cleave just means to stick to or adhere, but that's not the original definition of cleave. Well, and cleave is one of those annoying, like for non-English speakers trying to learn English, cleave is one of those annoying words because it not only has two definitions, it has two opposite definitions.

Yes. So you have cleave like to, to break apart, to break asunder, like a meat cleaver tears apart the meat. Or you have cleave as in stick to, adhere, stay with. Mm-hmm. And I think that, you know, sometimes the King James loses some of, from some of the wordplay that's in the Hebrew. And here I love that in these two verses we get both of those meanings of the, the cleave.

That we, we get kind of, and that, that's a little clever piece, that we get both the stick to the Lord, but separate yourselves from the remnant of these nations. Yes. Like, it's, you need to, you need to step, take a step away from those people who are g- going to stop you from cleaving to the Lord. Perfect.

So right there we have this idea, and I love the wordplay there, both of those meanings of the word cleave in this instance. And then he gets into 13 and f- or sorry, then he goes to verses 14 and 15 that I think are so powerful, that if you can choose to cleave unto the Lord, this is what will happen. And so Janiece, will you read both of those verses, please?

Sure. "And behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth. And you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one thing has failed of all the good things which the Lord your God spake concerning you. All are come to pass unto you, and not one thing hath failed thereof. Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the Lord your God promised you, so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God has given you."

I love- I kind of wish those were in the opposite direction, but. Tell me about that. Why? Well, just that we finished with the, the good. You know. Yeah. That he s- he, he gave the warning, and then we could finish with the good. But I mean, the 16, we, we're get back to the good t- a little bit. But Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think for me when I read 14 and 15, this is what the Spirit taught me.

I circled all the good things, all the good things. Mm-hmm. Because I thought, "What does that mean to these people?" When I hear that phrase, I think of what I think are all the good things, but there wasn't all good for them. I'm sure they saw loved ones die. I'm sure they experienced heartache and trial in the wilderness.

And so I love that phrase, all the good things, and especially when he's like, "You know in your hearts and in all your souls that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the Lord your God spake concerning you." Tell me about that phrase. What do you think it means to us today, all the good things?

What could that mean? Well, I think that if we look at Joshua as this whole arc, think about where we started. Mm-hmm. You know, we spent quite a bit of time at the beginning and about how kind of unpredictable things were, that nothing is working the way that we expect it to, and I think mortality is like that.

Mm-hmm. You know, I don't, uh, I don't really think I know anybody whose life has proceeded exactly how they planned. Even those whose lives on paper might look like that, I- Mm-hmm ... I don't think they actually as a whole look like how they expected. Yet despite that, they can still look back and see all the good things, and I think that that is a gift to be able to have this heart full of gratitude, and to be able to even when you're in the midst of, of rough things that are definitely you would not would, would not have asked for, that you can see light and goodness and that you can see God's hand even, you know, Job will say, "Though he slay me."

Mm-hmm. You know? Even, even in the midst of hard struggles that we never would have asked for, that there are still good things, and I believe that that is a gift, to be able to see God's hand and to see those good things even amidst darkness. Jeanne, tell me about something in your life that has been a good thing that, that fits into that.

Um, I, I think that there, I mean, there have been plenty of things in my life that have not gone as I expected them to, and but I think that I am constantly... I don't know. When I was teaching, I loved feeling that really consistent guidance from the Spirit. Like, I knew that God cared about- How I taught these kids.

I knew that God cared that I knew their names, that we'd ... And I learned to trust that when a name popped into my head I would say it even if I wa- had n- wasn't sure at all or ... I just, I loved this c- what really felt to me like a pretty consistent flow of revelation to, to try and teach others. And right now I'm not teach.

I mean, I t- I'm teaching Relief Society, so I get to teach every once in a while. But it's not my job anymore. And, and I was worried about losing that. But I love feeling that guidance of the Spirit and even though I'm doing very different things now. And that feeling that guidance, it may be different, it may show up in a different way, but it i- it's still consistent.

And it still surprises me when I'm, you know, struggling with something hard and then I actually think to pray about it, and it ki- I, I'm able to extricate it and kind of figure it out. Or times when I just had a thought a couple days ago and I was like, "What am I gonna do for that?" Like, and one second my mind was totally blank, and the next second I had a plan.

Wow. And I know that that didn't come from me, that that was the Lord saying, "Here's the direction I want you to go." Yep. And even when things are hard and when I can't see everything that's ahead, those, those little nudges and those things that testify to me that God is aware of me and God, He has a plan for me even though, if it doesn't make any sense to me at the time.

Oh my gosh, I'm writing so many notes as you're talking. We're gonna challenge everyone listening to- Right now, have an all the good things moment. If you're driving, start calling out all the good things in your life. If you're sitting down, start writing all the good things. 'Cause like Jenease said, life does not go how any of us think it's going to at all.

And sometimes I know for me, I've gotten caught up in all the good things is everything in my patriarchal blessing. And yet, I love how you said yet when you were talking, there are so many things in my life that have been good. And so take some time to think about all the good things in your life because you know, and I love it, again, you know in all your heart and in your soul that not one thing hath failed of all the good things, because God is a God who prevails.

Yahweh is successful. Gosh, I love that you said that, Jenease. So thank you, friend. Thanks for being on the podcast. You nailed it. No problem. It was delightful. Oh, I love you. That was so good. Um, okay. So just gather your thoughts and just tell me what your overall takeaway, eternal truth from the Book of Joshua, and then I'll share mine.

My overall takeaway is that the end is predictable. The means is never predictable. God uses people and ways that we would never expect, but God is a God of wonder, and that wonder is something that we can bank on. Thank you, Jenease. I have two takeaways. Uh, my first one, just, it's just actually... Well, it's a pretty cool takeaway actually, because one of the things I noticed about your gift and ability to teach, I don't know if anybody else noticed this, but when Jenease teaches, she teaches a truth and then she testifies of it.

You do that consistently, and I've loved watching you do that. It's been powerful. And you, you do it with a story. And so I don't even know if you know you're doing it, but it's so cool, so thank you. And then I loved, here's my eternal truth, God enlarges who gets to be in the covenant. That was good. I mean, that hit my heart when you said that in the second segment.

So thanks for setting the tone for this whole discussion. You're awesome. Love ya. Thanks. Love you, too. This was lovely. It was fun. Okay, we're done. Go walk your dog. Thank you. Well, what eternal truth did you learn from our discussion today from the Book of Joshua? Join our group on Facebook and follow us on Instagram and share what you have learned.

And then at the e- and then sometime during the week we're going to post a question from the discussion, and I just wanna know what is some of your good things. Comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday.

And go there anyway because it's where we're gonna have links to all the references and a transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our awesome study group participant was Jenice Johnson, and you can find more information about my friend at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday.

Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week, and please remember that you are God's favorite

SOM Transcript - S7E2

Season 7 Ep. 2 | Sunday on Monday

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