The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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Segment 1
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All right, I just have to say, three cheers for the writers of the Come, Follow Me manual, because listen to this week's intro. I, I just couldn't even do it better, so I had to use it, and here's what they wrote. "The writer of Psalms shared deeply personal feelings in their poetry. They wrote about feeling discouraged, afraid, and remorseful.
At times, they even felt abandoned by God, and some psalms carry a tone of frustration or desperation." Now, if you've ever felt that way, reading the Psalms can help you know that you aren't the only one. But you'll also find Psalms can be encouraging when you're having such feelings, because the psalmist also praised the Lord for His goodness and marveled at His power and rejoiced in His mercy.
They understood that having faith in the Lord, it doesn't mean that you'll never struggle with anxiety, sin, or fear. It means that you know who to turn to when you do. Welcome to the Sunday and Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together.
I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description, and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study. Just like my longtime listening friend, Michelle Farrer. Hello, Michelle. It was so good to meet you.
She was a service volunteer at BYU Women's Conference, and we adore you for that. Now, the best thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different. And this week, I have two women who I just adore, and they are Susan Christensen and Chere Clark.
Hi, ladies. Hi. Hi, Tammy. Now, we've had Chere on before many times. We love Chere. She's one of our good church historians, so I'm sure she'll come today. Are you coming today with some good church history stuff? I, I have one awesome story, yes. Okay. Of course you do, and I love that. Now, the reason why we have Susan with us is ’cause we made the coolest connection ever, which took a couple of years.
I can't even believe how long that took for us to figure this out. ’Cause I've known Susan forever and I've known Chere, and then I realized, oh, they're neighbors kind of. Like, they live less than a mile from each other and they're in the same ward. So we started talking about... Well, I was with Susan. We started talking about how much we love Chere, and then I thought, "I have to have both of them on the episode together."
It's just a no-brainer for me. We're thrilled. Yeah. This is gonna be fun, ’cause I... Well, I said to Susan, too. Susan's, this is her first time on, and I just said, "I don't know." I didn't know why God put her on. And then she t- texted me some beautiful things about her life at the time when I asked her to be on the podcast, ’cause you had to think about it, huh, Suz?
Yes, I did. Like, "Can I do this right now? My life's crazy busy," and, "Can you do this right now? How you feeling about it?" Um, I'm feeling good about it. Honestly, um, as I mentioned earlier, it was an answer to prayer. Wow. Just kinda turned, turned my head where it needed to be. Okay. Yeah. Well, right there, that's a testimony of the Book of Psalms.
Yeah. So for those of you listening, we're gonna be studying Psalms 49 all the way to 86. I can't e- we can't even go into the Psalms yet because Susan, you have to tell us a little bit about your family 'cause Susan has many kids and grandkids, all the goodness. Susan, how many kids do you have? I have six kids.
Yes. And- And ages? The oldest is 30, going on 33, and the youngest is 17. So I still have one at home. Second youngest is on a mission in Chicago right now. Wow. They all live in Utah now except Matthew, who just moved to Monterey. Oh, yes. So yeah, he's out there. But between them, we've got nine and two halves grandchildren.
Wow. So two... Yeah, two on the way. Wow. It happened really fast. Oh, my goodness. Amazing. So fun. And of those 11, there's only three girls. Oh. So it's chaos That is chaos. I have to say about Susan is that she's one of the best cooks I know, so. Oh, thank you. Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Absolutely. That's ... We have that in common.
We love, we love to cook, and we love- Yeah ... to eat what we cook. I would say about that for both of you, the best cooks I've ever met. In fact, Chere, the other night I was making, um, chicken kabobs and my daughter wanted naan bread. Oh, yeah. And I was like, "Ah, my friend Chere makes the best homemade naan bread ever."
She goes, "Get the recipe." I'm like, "I can't do that. No. Who are we kidding? I'm not making homemade naan bread." Yes, you could. It's so easy, it's ridiculous. Never. So, yes. Well- Yeah, I mean- And anytime I have the chance to eat at either one of their houses... Here's how I met Susan. Susan's husband and my husband grew up together, and they reconnected several years ago, and we went to Susan's house for dinner, and I'd never met Susan ever.
And as soon as we met, I'm like, "Oh, we're gonna be friends," 'cause she likes to eat and she makes really good pies. And, um, yeah, anytime they call us and invite us over, I'm like, "We- we're going to their house for food, right? We're not going to my house." So. We're doing pie. We're doing pie, for sure. Oh, we're doing pie.
In fact, for one of her daughter's weddings, Chere, she made little individual pies. Oh, I believe it, yeah. Oh. Yeah. Homemade pie crust. Yeah. She's not buying that at Costco. No. No, she does know- No way ... how to make pie crust. Susan, no way. And that is hard. Yeah. Even I was like, "Susan, let me look on Amazon. I'm sure they have pre-made pie crusts."
"This will take you forever." And Susan's like, "I ... What are you doing? What are you saying?" Yeah. That part did kinda take forever. It was worth- But it was so good. It was really fun ... so good. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. So good. Okay. Now we know each other. So go check out my friends' bios because you wanna see them and you wanna read about them.
And you can find those in our show notes, which are found at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. So grab your scriptures and something to mark them with, and let's dive into the Book of Psalms, chapters 49 through 86. Okay, first things first, lady, just tell me, what did the Holy Ghost teach you as you were preparing and studying for this discussion?
Oh, so many things. So many things. Don't be casual in your faith. That was one of them. To be more deliberate. To call on God in days of trouble. And then the number one thing, it was, uh, Psalm 51, which is David's psalm about, uh, he's repenting, right? Mm-hmm. And that one... Give me a sec, 'cause I'm gonna try not to cry.
I don't like to cry. That one- It's, this is a cry safe zone ... you know, it's, yeah You're safe ... everything was, everything's so personal, um, when you get into these things. I struggle with feeling like I have to be perfect to be able to call on God. Mm-hmm. And I don't. I mean, here's David, who essentially committed murder and adultery, and he turns to God.
And, you know, I don't have anything nearly that bad in my, you know? Yeah. But I struggle with if I'm not perfect, I feel like I can't call on God. Hmm. And, um, I need to, you know? So put it, it really put it in perspective for me that I don't need to be perfect to be able to turn to God in times of trouble.
And the past few months have been some of the hardest of my life So it's been a really good reminder that, you know, and I think that I need ... I can turn to God. I need to turn to God, and I do. Mm-hmm. You know, a little here, a little there. And I need to do it more and make it more deliberate and, um, quit feeling like I need to be perfect to be able to do that.
So that was a really big lesson that I got. Go into Psalm 51 real quick. Is there one specific verse that you have marked or that stood out to you? 'Cause I, I appreciate so much that you set up Psalm 51 by saying, "Here's David," and you're right, so not perfect. Yeah. And when you know that about David and then you read Psalm 51, it makes you love him even more.
Yeah. I love how you set up Psalm 51 with that, that foundational knowledge of David. Like, he is not perfect, and h- and his wording is so powerful. What stood out to you in that verse or that chapter? Um, 10, 10 through 12, I have those marked, and then also 17. Oh, okay. So, "Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.
Uh, restore unto me the joy of thy salvation and uphold me with thy free spirit." And also, "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and a contrite heart." That I can bring. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that, especially the word broken really hits me. Yeah. 'Cause that's me.
And, and the Lord's like, "Oh, yeah. Come as broke as you are. I'll take you." And ex- um, a lot of us feel so broken so often. Mm-hmm. Especially when we have kids, right? Oh, goodness, yeah. Yeah. And he's like, "I don't care how many times you've had to repair that spot. Let's go." And, and it doesn't even have to be repaired in order to come to me, so.
Yeah. Wow, Susan, thank you. Thank you so much. What about you, Chere? Well, as I, um, I started reading on Psalm 49, and the very first thing that hit me in this, it's all about gathering wealth and who we are as a person on Earth, and all the things we acquire and do. And, and then we die, you know? Mm-hmm. And, and we can't take it with us.
And I was thinking about that. It brought to mind my, my father died about four years ago, and, um, I was there right after he had passed, and I looked around. He was just so peaceful in his bed there, and I looked around, and all of his stuff is still there, but he was gone. Mm. And it hit me so hard that all this stuff doesn't matter.
None of it matters. The only thing that matters is my relationship with him, my relationships with other people, and where my heart is. And then the thought of my dad is back to his normal self. He had Alzheimer's when he passed, and it just like, oh, Poppy, you're here and you're, you're back. You're my, my dad again.
And, and I'm gonna see you again. And I am just so grateful that I know that I'm gonna see him again. The scripture that really was, that hit me the most was Psalm 49:15, "But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, for He shall receive me." He's the only one that can do that for us. Mm-hmm. And, um, how grateful I am for that knowledge.
Yeah. Um, and then 17, "For when we dieth, he shall carry nothing away. His glory shall not descend after him." So all that we have here on Earth is nothing. It's nothing. Yeah. We just have to make sure that our treasure is the right treasure in our heart. Very awesome. I love that you shared that. Especially because I just recently read this really awesome thing about, it was talking about your life right now, and it was saying things like, if you feel like you don't have enough stuff, or if you're feeling like you need something new.
It was going through all these experiences we have as human beings. They said the end result was you're probably online too much. Oh. Like, you're probably scrolling too much. It's true. And I thought that was so profound because I wonder what it would be like if you could scroll on God's feed, and this is it.
Psalms is God's feed. It's like all these different things He's just reminding you of, and so you get to 49, and you're probably feeling like, "I really want that dress," or, "I really want that co-" I don't even know. Whatever it is you feel like you need because you saw it and somebody had it, but not... And you, you wouldn't even say you're really that kind of person.
Like, I don't think I am. I don't ever really covet. When people have new things, I'm so happy for them, but I'll find myself looking at things going, "Ooh, I'd love that," or, "I'm gonna look that up." And now you just have to hit a button, and it immediately takes you to being able to purchase it. Absolutely. So fast.
Like the Amazon packages that keep showing up- Ugh ... at our doors. Right? Like, we just have enough. There's enough. My daughter who lives in New York, they live in the tiniest little apartment, and every time she gets something, something has to leave her apartment because there's not enough room. Oh, that makes sense.
And I just think, I need to live more like that. I'm just so inspired by her that way. Yes. That is so awesome because then you go to the verse you picked, verse 15, and it says, uh, and I love it. W- you apply it to your father, but then I'm thinking of my own life. "But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave."
But this is the part, "For he shall receive me," period. Not, he shall receive me and my stuff. Yeah. It's just, he will receive me, but what I love is that it ends with selah. And we talked about that last week in the podcast, so some of you remember, but the word selah in Hebrew, it is a sign to rest. Like, you're supposed to rest after you read the verse and then meditate on what was just said.
And of all the verses- Oh ... to selah after, here's the Lord- Perfect ... saying, "For he shall receive me, selah." Let's all just sit with that for a minute 'cause that's what I want you to know. When you're scrolling through my feed, if you see a selah, maybe that's, like, the point of God's feed in Psalms is I'm just gonna receive you, none of your stuff.
Well, and isn't that a motivation for, uh, kinda like a yardstick on how we should be living our life and where we're at and to remember that? So I love your idea there that we read that and then think on it, think where we're at. Yeah. Give ourselves some personal inventory of where are you on that and how do you feel about that.
So I love that. Um, you're making me think of, um, several years ago in a book club. We read a book about a Jewish mother, Lessons Learned from a Jewish Mother, or something like that, and one of the things that has stuck with me, and it's been probably- I think it was before Leah was born, so over 17 years ago.
But this stuck with me, that you have two pockets, and in your pocket you have two notes. One says, "I am nothing," and one says, "I am everything." And both are true at the same time. Mm-hmm. Right? So it focuses you on all the things that are nothing in our lives versus- Yeah ... that you're everything, everything to God.
Oh, wow. I love that, Susan. Thank you. Wow, that's powerful. Wow. Okay, well, that was just segment one. We're already feeling the Spirit. We've already touched upon things that are so tender to our hearts, so thank you, ladies. So let's do this then. In the next segment we're just gonna start diving into the Book of Psalms, and we're gonna kinda talk about why we're here today.
We'll do that next
Segment 2
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So we are going to start towards the very end of this scripture block to introduce our discussion. So let's go to Psalm chapter 78. Grab a pen or a scripture marker. Well, you'll want both because I'm gonna have you mark some words in these verses as we talk about this. I'm gonna have you bracket off some things.
So again, turn to Psalm 78. And first thing first in Psalm 78, bracket off verses 9 all the way until the end of the chapter 72. So Psalm chapter 78, verses 9 through 72, and you're gonna label it Old Testament and the children of Israel's actions with God. Those are what those, all those verses are about.
Now, you already know this story 'cause we've already studied it this year. It's the book of Exodus. It's the book of the Lord helping them through the Red Sea. It's how the Lord dealt with Noah and Jacob, everybody. It's the history of the Old Testament and how God worked with the children of Israel. But what I love is verses 1 through 7 leading up to their story because really their story is our story, and that's what the psalmist wants you to know.
As you're reading this, you're like, "Yes, we know this story," but right next to where it says, "The children of Israel's actions with God," that I had you put, then in parentheses put, "Actions with me." Because if we could, we would write your whole story right here in verses 9 through 72. Okay? So that's the point.
But here is what the psalmist wants us to go into our own personal story with, and we're gonna start, and we're just gonna look at verses 1 through 7, and I'm gonna have you mark some really cool words. Okay, so first things first, in verse 1 where it says, "Give ear, O my people," highlight give ear. And what this really is saying is, "Listen!"
in exclamation points. Like, "I want you to listen, O my people, to my law," which is the scriptures. "Incline your ears to the words of my mouth." Okay, that makes sense. Then we go to verse 2. "I will open my mouth." Now what this means is, underline open my mouth, and you're gonna put to the side, "Speak freely or boldly."
Hmm. So that is defined as I will speak freely or I will speak boldly in a parable or in a story so you can understand. And then I love this next line where he says, "I will utter dark sayings of old." Now that seems kind of weird. So you wanna kinda cross out the word dark, 'cause in Hebrew it doesn't mean dark really.
It means hidden Or kind of sarcastic, ridiculing a little bit. So here he's saying in a sarcastic manner, "I'm gonna utter things of old," meaning things of ancient times, things of history. And he's saying it in a sarcastic manner because he's like, "It's not that, it's not that hidden. It's not... You guys have been hearing this your whole life.
You act like what I'm about to tell you is so new, but you know what I'm about to say," and here's what he says to them. I thought that was so interesting that there's sarcasm in there. It's kind of- Yeah ... my family's love language. My husband's very sarcastic. He's like... 'Cause it's kinda like a dad when he says to his kid, "I've told you this a million times before, but here we go again, so let me just tell you why we're here."
Then he says in verse three, "Here's the things of old which we have heard and known and our fathers have told us." That's what he's saying, like, "I'm gonna tell you," but this is his way of saying, "As a dad, I've told you this a million times before. You know what I'm about to say. Let's do this together."
Verse four, "We will not hide them from their children, showing to the generation to come the praises of the Lord and His strength and His wonderful works that He hath done." He's like, "We're not going to... They're not really hidden because you've known all of this stuff all your lives." So right there where it says, "We will not hide them," what he's really saying is, "You've heard it your whole lives from all their children, and they've been showing from all generation to generation the praises of the Lord."
Highlight praises of the Lord. Highlight His strength. Highlight His wonderful works. So this is stuff that our ancestors have been telling us forever, that God is good, and we know He's good because coming up in verses nine through 72, I'm gonna retell you their whole storyline. So you, so you can't say you haven't heard it, 'cause you're gonna go, "Oh yeah, we did hear that story about how Moses opened the Red Sea."
So he's like, "Okay, here we go." And then I love verse five, "For He established a testimony in Jacob, appointed a law in Israel, which He commanded our fathers that they should make them known to their children, that the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born, who should arise and declare them to their children."
And then verse seven, "That they might set their hope in God and not forget the works of God, but keep His commandments. And they might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation, a generation that set not their hearts at right and whose spirit was not steadfast in God." So he's saying, "Listen, the whole point and purpose of this is so that we can help set their hope in God, 'cause we have a hope in God.
And your job now is to tell your family your story about your hope in God, as hopefully your parents have told you." And I, I love this because in my mind, the way I was raised- My parents could easily say, "Listen, we've taught you this your whole life. You know this. You know that God lives." You-- All of the things, and I think maybe that's why it's so hurtful when people I love don't believe in God anymore.
I'm like, "But you know God. You've had experiences. You've been taught that, right?" And so the whole point and purpose of our discussion today is that we are going to share stories that will hopefully persuade people to set their hope in God. And so with that que- here's a question I have for both of you.
Thinking back throughout all of your generations of family lines, what have they taught you about hope in God? Is there anything specifically where your ancestors could say, "Listen, you know this is true 'cause we've been talking about it forever." Has anything been handed down throughout your generations about God or Christ?
Well, we always go back to my grandmother's conversion story. Ooh, what is it? So she was, um From an alcoholic family, and she was well on her way to becoming an alcoholic herself, and she prayed for help. And the missionary showed up at her door, of course, and this was in Missouri. You know, she was a young mother with four, four little girls, and she says the miracle is that she even let them into her house 'cause she was kind of scared, and you know, these strange people coming to her door.
S- it's a miracle that she let them in, right? And they taught her, and she wanted to be baptized, but she was a smoker, and she had quit drinking but she just could not quit smoking. And finally just prayed for help, and she just laid it all out to God and said, "I, I can't do this on my own." And He took away that desire to smoke for three days, and that thr- that three days, you know, that's so symbolic in the scriptures.
Um, but she had... The desire to smoke came back after three days, but by then she knew she could do it. Mm. So she was able to quit smoking. She chewed gu- she chewed gum for the rest of her life. And you know, and that's why. But she was able- Wow ... to be baptized against her husband's wishes. He threatened to divorce her, and when she went and was baptized and came home, he was gone for a couple days.
Wow. Mm-hmm. And he finally came back and, um, said, "All right, we... Let's figure out how to make this work." He didn't join the church till I was a baby- Mm ... and so my mother was raised in a part-member home. But you know, that willingness to sacrifice and that turning to God is something that the whole family just treasures my grandmother for, so.
I, I love that she chewed gum for the rest of her life because honestly, to see that symbol of her faith, always whenever you'd see her chewing gum- Oh, wow ... you knew why she was chewing gum. And- Mm ... sometimes to have a symbol to look at all the time, like, you know, CTR rings or, or whatever, different things that we have, but that is something that everyone in your family could see, you know, and think- Yeah
"Oh." And I'd never thought of it that way. Grandma- Well, you're right ... Peter, and now I'll never look at gum chewing the same. Right. Oh, that's so good. The... I love that. I think it's important to find those kinds of symbols to, to... or, like, cues in our life to remember things that, that are happening. Yeah. So Oh my gosh, I have a cute.
You just reminded me of one. And then Chere, I wanna know what, what your, uh, um, thing that your family taught you, hope in God. But for me, every time I see a rose in my garden, my husband plants roses, and every time I look at a rose, I think of my grandmother. When I was a little girl, I would go spend the summers with her.
It was my, the highlight of my life. I got to s- I got to spend one week with her all by myself. And at night, every time after we were done eating, we'd go out on the front porch, we'd eat a bowl of ice cream, and then she'd walk over and cut a rose out of her rose garden. And then she'd take off the thorns and wrap it up in a paper towel, and we'd walk to someone's house in the neighborhood who she felt like needed a rose.
And I thought it was just cute, and I thought maybe she just wanted to spend more time with me, so it was an excuse to just go visit someone. And I can remember one time she gave a rose to a woman and the woman started sobbing. And I didn't know much, so I just kinda watched it. And as we walked home, I said, "Grandma, why did that lady cry when you gave her a rose?"
And she said, "Oh, honey, she's, she has the cancer, and she's probably not gonna live." And I really didn't know. I, I just remember thinking, "Wow, that's so sad." And then I said, "Grandma, why did you do that, though? Why'd you take her a rose?" And then she said, "Because if Jesus were here, that's what he would do.
But since he's not, he needs us." So every time I see a rose, I think of that life lesson, that compassion and Jesus go hand-in-hand, and he needs us. So just take a rose to someone's house or something like that. So that, that's my hope in God right there, is that she became the hope in him for other people. I love that.
So- Yeah ... she gave me that memory. Yeah, I think that as we think about things, we could come up, all of us could come up with a, a lot of different things that we see daily that could remind us of our faith and, and our legacy that's been left to us, so. Yeah. Um, the thing that, it, mine's a little different.
So at Christmas this year, I decided I wanted to give something to my grandchildren and children that they could know their family history. And half my children are in the church, and half are out of the church. And so I have to kind of think about things that I can give that will be a reminder but not, um, make them feel like I'm pushing anything or doing anything that makes them feel uncomfortable.
So I put together, it's called, I have it, I have it right here actually. CeeCee's Bedtime Stories. You finished it. I did. And it has all these pictures and stories of my ancestors. I went through every single story and all their family history books and things that we have and picked out the funnest stories, the faith-filled stories that you, you know that they're there, but you don't wanna go through everything and find them, right?
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so I have so many stories of my grandfather, my mother's, um, father, Leglin Hugentobler. He was not active when they first married, and not until he had little kids did he become active. And I tell the story of, of how he stayed home from church one day, and he looked out in the yard and he saw that there's this tree that needed to be cut down.
And he thought, "I'm gonna cut that tree down and get it all done today before they get home from church." So he's cutting the tree, and the ax flies out of his hand and goes into the neighbor's window, where the neighbor's grandmother usually sat most of the time. And luckily she wasn't there. And he was just sick at, that he had broken the window, was afraid that he had done something.
But that w- changed his heart, 'cause he felt like the Lord was saying, "You are not supposed to be here. You should be with your family." And he made it all right with the, with the neighbors, and then he told his little girl that, "I think God wants me to come to church now." Mm-hmm. And, um, he started going to church, and he ended up becoming active and a temple worker.
And I remember one of the times being in the Mount Timpanogos Temple, and I'm at the veil, and all of a sudden I recognize the voice behind the veil, and it was my grandpa taking me through the veil. Oh. And one of my most meaningful memories I have with him, but just knowing where he came from and where he was by the end of his life, there's always hope, and God always has His arm stretched out to you and always is trying to figure out ways, how can I gather him?
How can I bring him back? What do I need to do? And, and so that's kind of helped me as I've thought about my kids and in, on their own faith journey. I just think God's got them. All I have to do is love them, so. Thank you. Thank you to both of you. You just perfectly taught what Psalm 78 is all about, where you know it's right, you know the stories.
We're gonna set your hope in God, and through all the stories throughout your life, your ancestors' stories, everything, that's verses nine through 72, and how they have set your hope in God. Thank you so much. So that's what we're gonna do today. I've asked my guests to read through the Book of Psalms, specifically the ones that we're talking about today, and to choose a psalm that was meaningful to them and a story from their life that will hopefully set you listeners who are listening to set your hope in God in a more sure way after today's discussion.
So you ready to do this, ladies? Yeah? I hope so. Ready. Hey, in the next segment, we're gonna start with Chere. We'll do that next
Segment 3
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All right, Chere, we are in the Book of Psalms. And so tell us, what's the psalm you chose? Or just guide us through and tell us your story that's gonna set our hope in God. Okay, so the scripture, I have a couple of Psalms, and it's about prayer. Mm. Because this whole thing is about pouring your heart out to God, right?
And, uh, David just taught us that we need to pour our hearts out to God. And so I really loved Psalm 61:1-4, "Hear my cry, O God; attend unto my prayer. From the end of the earth will I cry unto thee, when my heart is overwhelmed: lead me to the rock that is higher than I. For thou hast been a shelter for me, and a strong tower from the enemy.
I will abide in thy tabernacle for ever: I will trust in the covert of thy wings. Selah." Stop. Think on that. That- Mm-hmm ... is such a great, um, gift right there that he gave us. And then Psalms 86:6-8, "Give ear, O LORD, unto my prayer; and attend to the voice of my supplications. In the day of my trouble I will call upon thee: for thou wilt answer me.
Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works." So thinking about those, it actually brought to mind the story of Ann Cannon, one of the women in early Mormon history, which that is near and dear to my heart. I have to always share a story so we, we can remember th- these women and what they've done for us in our, in our lives and the legacy that they've left.
But Ann Cannon, she served in young women's organizations most of her life, and she never married. But she had such a full life and was, um, able to speak, uh, on a national level on behalf of the church for women receiving the vote, and then she worked on the young women's board and with women in church for all of her life.
She was, she was awesome, and she made God her partner. And her niece told of a story when she was very young and she was sharing a room with her Aunt Ann, who was at the end of her life and had come to stay with them, and she said, um, she would listen to her aunt say her prayers at night, and she said, "I never felt she was just saying her prayers.
Instead, I knew she was talking to a trusted friend." Mm. And I thought, oh, wouldn't we love anybody to say that about our prayers, that we are talking to a trusted friend? And Ann said this about prayer. She gave a talk on prayer, and you can find this talk in At The Pulpit, the book that's actually on your gospel app.
But she said, "The subject of prayer is one dear to me. I know that prayer can lift the greatest burdens and rest the weary. Nothing else can give such perfect relief. Even the falling of a tear is prayer. There are times in the lives of all when we need extra strength and comfort. Be not discouraged in praying again and again for the same thing.
God understands our needs, and He will bless us in His own way." And I love that powerful testimony of prayer, and I love the idea of even a falling tear is a prayer. Mm-hmm. Which, oh, my goodness, that is, it comes straight from our heart. And how many times have we been on our knees, you know, just wetting our pillows, you know, with our, our tears, which is literally a prayer.
And so it made me think of a time, there's a couple of times when I felt so just overly burdened and feeling like there's no one, no one that can help me but the Lord. I can't really approach anyone with some of these things, um, but the Lord can help me. And early on, I remember praying, and I had a question that I just needed answered, and I didn't know, there was nobody g- that could answer this question but the Lord.
And I remember kneeling there and just begging Him and saying, telling Him the question and saying, "I just w- wish you were right here on my bed, and we could have a conversation, 'cause I need an answer to this question, 'cause I feel like I can't move forward without it, and You're the only one that can answer this question for me."
And I, I prayed so hard and just was... I, I just remember I just felt inconsolable. And I, I was probably on my knees for about 15 minutes about that, and then finally got up and went on with my, my life. And I was attending a institute class, kinda like what you teach, Tammy, on- Mm-hmm ... during the middle of the week for adults.
And, um, I went to that institute class, and it, it probably had been, um, two days. And the teacher got up and said, "I had a whole different lesson planned, but I felt like I needed to scrap this and show this video." And he shows this video, and in the video, that exact question, like word for word, was in that video with the answer that I needed.
Hm. And it made me realize God will answer my prayers. I can tur- h- turn to Him no matter what. No matter how hard it is or what is happening, He will figure out a way to meet me where I need Him to meet me, and He did. He met me there. So later, my husband was involved in an accident. It was an avalanche with one of his very good friends.
They were snowmobiling, and his friend ended up dying in the avalanche, and my husband didn't, and it was Really a hard thing to go through. And I remember getting a 911 reverse call, basically was from the operator asking some questions and saying that there was an accident, and I just could not figure out what was going on.
They didn't have a lot of information, so I went over to my friend's house that whose husband with was, was with my husband. And the only thing we could think to do was to kneel down and pray at that time because we knew He was the only one to help us. And we prayed, and my friend, whose husband had by that time had passed away, and she didn't know it.
She said, "I feel, I feel my husband, and I th- everything's gonna be okay." Wow. So later when I was reunited with my husband, Keith, and we were okay and just trying to get through it and went through all the things. That night I couldn't sleep very well, and I remember praying so hard, "I just need to make sure I learn what I need to learn from this experience 'cause I don't ever wanna go through this again."
And there's a reason that we were part of this experience, and it truly was a privilege to be part of this most spiritual experience as he left this world and went to the next. And I didn't want it to be for nothing, and I just remember thinking, "Help me to make sure I learn the right things from this."
And it, it took some time for me to come up with that. But the next morning was a Sunday, and most people would probably think, "Ugh, I've been through terrible thing the night before. I hadn't slept. I'm just gonna stay home from church." The thing that kept me going was I had to go to church and partake of the sacrament.
That sacrament was gonna heal me, and that's what God was trying to tell me. "I have something already in place for you. I have the sacrament that's gonna heal you." And I have never taken the sacrament for granted after that, 'cause I realize what a gift and healing that was. And that is what I learned, one of the lessons I learned and that he taught me from that.
But again, the whole idea was that you can pray and you will get the answers you need, and it might not be the way you want, but he will meet you where you need to be met. And it's important to think and, and figure out, what is he trying to teach me? And that's- Mm ... uh, that's stayed with me. From now on, that's the way I pray, I, 'cause I know that He's there, that He's gonna, He's gonna figure it out for me.
Wow, Chere. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that story. And I just have to say, what a brave prayer. I've never considered the idea of saying, and I wrote it down, "Help me to learn what you need to teach me from this experience." 'Cause when you're going through a really difficult time, when I'm going through a really difficult time, that's not my prayer, Chere.
Right. My prayer is, "Help me get through this." Like, I don't wanna learn a lesson. I just wanna make it through alive and breathing. But you've just changed the way I'm gonna pray when I'm going through a hard time. Like, just help me to learn what you need to teach me. You don't ever wanna go through that again- No
right? So let's- Yeah ... learn what, what's there for me. Yeah. Or if I do go through it again, I'll go, "Oh, I know how to do this." Yeah, exactly. "Yeah, I know how to do this. Okay, here's what I do," so. That's true. Often if you pray for, you know, "What's, what's the lesson I need to learn?" you end up with more trials. So that's a really scary prayer to ask.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Wow. So Chere, thank you so much for setting our hope in God and adding to our foundation. So in the next segment, Susan's next, and she is gonna do the same. Yeah. We'll do that coming up.
Segment 4
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All right, Susan, you're up. Share with us what you marked from the Book of Psalms in our reading and, um, what, what it is that has h- maybe set your hope in God or can help strengthen our hope in Him. Oh, boy, I don't know if I'm gonna have, be able to do a, such a straightforward story. Okay. Mine might be a little more convoluted.
We love it. That's, that's okay, though. Yeah. Is, um, for an exercise I went through as I was reading Psalm 78 and listening to the, you know, listening to the story or reading the story of the Israelites, that's what I did. I went through and I started kinda writing down my own story. Um- You did? The tender mercies.
Love that. Just everything I could remember, just sort of brainstorming, and I wrote down, I mean, you can see my, my bullet list here- Love it ... of all these different just kinda clue words to help me remember what they were, 'cause some of them I've written down and I've told a lot to my kids, and some of them I haven't.
And, uh, I'm not real sure where to even start sharing. One of them I've know, I know I've told this story to my kids all the time. We just say chicken salad, and they know what I'm talking about. When I was- A Q, another Q. Another Q. There it is. Exactly, yeah. I have six kids. Um, I meant to stop at four because number four was really, really hard to get here.
I mean, vomiting every single day for nine months straight and being put on bed rest for 12 weeks. Hmm. Which they don't even do anymore 'cause apparently it's not good for you to stay in bed for 12 weeks, you know? Oh, no. And, um, kidney stones and a messed up thyroid, all the things. So we were done with number four just for the sake of my health, right?
And so a few years went by, and we decided to pray about it. And the answer was a two-by-four to the head. Um- ... we ended up with Sam, who we needed so desperately and didn't know we needed him, right? But it was terrifying to be pregnant again. I was absolutely terrified. I told... I was in Primary at the time, and I told the Primary presidency that given my history, they probably had about two weeks to find a replacement for me before I was totally incapacitated, and that's exactly what happened.
I hit about six weeks pregnant, and I was super sick. At the time, my husband was working out of town, so he was gone a lot, like four days gone, three days home kinda thing. So I was on my own with four little kids and very sick. Hmm. If you've been sick when you're pregnant, you know you have to eat or you get sicker, but nothing sounds like you can eat it, right?
And I'd been living on tortillas for about two days at that point. It's all I could think of that I thought I could stomach. And then that became I couldn't eat it. I went to bed that night just wishing my mom, who lived in California, wishing that she would come and make chicken salad for me. And I was crying and feeling really sorry for myself and terrified and went to sleep.
And the next morning I got a phone call from a woman in the ward, Shauna Hale, who passed away a few years ago. And she said
I have this leftover chicken salad from this event we had. Could you use it? Wow. She showed up. You know, the Lord provided chicken salad, and I couldn't even eat it of course. But what it did, it took away my feeling of terror. I knew that I was being carried in the Lord's hand through that really hard experience, and it was still hard.
And with this pregnancy, just like with, with Abby, when I was pregnant with Abby, I threw up every single day for nine months straight. They didn't put me on bed rest. They told me, "Just lay down when you feel like," you know, I, 'cause I, I would feel like f- it was false labor, that it would start at like 22, 24 weeks and never go away the rest of the pregnancy.
It was still brutally hard to go through it, but I wasn't scared anymore, and so that, that was a big deal. So the kids- Wow ... have all heard that story, and we just, "Oh, it's chicken salad." Chicken salad. Right? Well, I, I wonder what a great reminder, Susan, with what you've done is you've made a bullet list of all the tender mercies in your life.
That was one of the things I loved about this series of psalms that we get to read is how often you saw the word, the phrase tender mercies. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It happens often, and the fact that David is calling upon and remembering. He's asking for tender mercies. He's recognizing tender mercies, and you've just challenged me to do that 'cause I think that's one of the best antidotes to scrolling and and feeling left without and feeling like we don't have enough stuff is to just take a moment, take a Selah, and start listing all the things you do have or all the tender mercies the Lord has blessed you with.
If you feel like He's not answering this one prayer, just Selah for a minute. Right. And- And remember your chicken salad. Yeah, and that's where, you know, the way things had been so just brutally hard the past few months... Mm, I'm just gonna keep pausing 'cause- It's okay ... you know, as I, as I choke up
One of my daughters has been going through some really hard things
And it's been one of the hardest things that I've ever had to go through with her. Mm-hmm. So, you know, extreme emotional stress, um, it's led to a lot of depression and anxiety, almost, uh, panic, panic attacks at points, you know. I've started talking to a counselor trying to get help myself. She's been working with a counselor.
For you to call me during that time or to message me during that time and ask me to do this podcast with you, to have it be Psalms of all things- Mm ... it was just a really timely reminder, right? And I referenced that before. But specifically for it to be Psalms, which are songs, um, reminded me of a blessing I had from my husband several years ago, where he s- told me that I needed to learn the hymns because they are scripture and they are prayer.
Wow. And that's what I've been doing. You know, that's been my go-to to find peace. I turn on hymns, and I'll play those. I even play them at school, 'cause I'm a third-grade teacher, and I'll play instrumental hymns, so there's no words. But they just help keep me centered, I guess, keep my spirit centered. Um, but they're not religious for kids who, you know, 'cause I can't bring that into school.
But for me, they bring the spirit, and they help keep me in the right frame of mind, right? But that's what I've been doing, and this has been really powerful to me, to have that reminder to, yes, go to, go to music, go to the hymns. Think about the different themes of Psalms. The temple is one of them. Go to the temple.
Uh, I've had so many times at the temple where there's been just, just little reminders of, um, answers to prayers. This kind of segues into one. S- several years ago, we were going through some rough financial times. Steve was feeling... It, it was l- kind of despair, despairing. And we s- we thought we had to go to the temple.
And And Steve goes, "Well, I don't know where our temple recommend is, so we can't go." And so I went, as I do, I don't like to cry in front of people. I was hiding in the bathroom, bawling my eyes out and praying my guts out, right? And Steve suddenly from the other s- other side of the door goes, "Oh, I just found my temple recommend."
Right? Yes. So when that session was over, I went to Steve and I asked him, "Did anything stick out to you?" And he got the exact same answer I did. Wow. So, you know, we both knew this is ... It's gonna be hard. It's gonna take some time, and that's okay, 'cause God has us in His hand. What was my scripture to go along with those?
Um, Psalm 63:7
Thou hast been my help. Therefore, in the shadow of thy wings will I rejoice. My soul followeth hard after thee. Thy right hand upholds me Wow. Just the way you read verse eight. I've never noticed the word hard before. "My soul followeth hard after thee." Boy, isn't that the truth when we're in times of despair and trial?
Yeah. Like, I thought about how the Come, Follow Me lesson opened, where it talked about how every single one of us have moments where we feel abandoned by God, discouraged, afraid, remorseful, that we struggle with anxiety, sin, or fear. But it doesn't mean we can't turn to the Lord, and again right here, turn hard after the Lord.
Oh. W- well, then His right hand upholdeth me. Yes. I mean, don't, uh, don't you just think of Him as encircling you in His arms- Yeah ... and just, just lifting the weight off? Uh, it's so beautiful. May I share one more thing too about that- Mm-hmm ... about being upheld, upheld by God? Please. Um, as, as my daughter and I have been in counseling, she's doing a type of trauma therapy right now, and she was just telling me about this last night, and I'm sharing this with permission from her.
One of the things she's been doing, just kind of in her mind, she's been sort of grieving her old self. Mm-hmm. She feels like she's lost something. Um- She's grieving for her old self that's gone. She's a new person, and that's a struggle, right? So in her mind, she was going back and talking to her old self like it was a different person, and having to let that different person go and be okay with that.
And what came to her was that she took her Savior with her, as it wasn't just her going and talking to her old self in her mind. It was her and her Savior- Hmm ... talking to her old self Wow. And he was, yeah, she was, she's, and she wrote this, that she was self-referencing her and the Savior as we to comfort her old self as she let this old self go and apologized to her old self in a way, but also made things okay.
Um, she let her old s- and I'm gonna just read what she said, uh, "Letting my old self know that Jesus Christ went through exactly what I'm going through, that I'm not by myself," because I think her old self felt very alone. Mm-hmm.
But looking back now, she can see that in her dark time she wasn't alone. She had her Savior with her. Mm-hmm. So really powerful thing to know that you're being held in His hand. Wow. Absolutely, Susan. Oh, thank you so much. My heart breaks for you, and I'm so sorry you're going through such a difficult time, but I'm so grateful that God knew we needed your voice.
So thank you. Thank you for sharing times when you have had your hope set in God, but then also for setting our hope in Him through all of your tender mercies. So I really appreciate that, and I appreciate you sharing that Psalm 63:8, "My soul followeth hard after thee. Thy right hand upholdeth me." That is wonderful.
So thank you. Beautiful. Thank you to both of you for the spirit that we felt as you have definitely set our hope in God. And so in the next segment, I'm gonna share my scripture from Psalm, and then in the last segment we get to talk about a word that I love that's found in the Book of Psalm. So I will do my verses next
Segment 5
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My psalm is in Psalm 77, and the reason I loved this so much is 'cause it says the word Selah twice, and that's what I want us to just focus on, is when the Lord tells us to rest and meditate on what He just said. So the first one is verses one through three, 'cause if there was ever three verses that described me or little me or my whole life, it's these three.
"I cried unto God with my voice, even unto God with my voice, and He gave ear unto me. In the day of my trouble I sought the Lord. My sore ran in the night, and ceased not. My soul refused to be comforted. I remembered God and was troubled. I complained, and my spirit was overwhelmed. Selah." Now, of course, I read that and I'm like, "Oh yeah, that's me."
I highlighted complained. Love that because how many times have I complained? A lot. But then I had to look it up in Hebrew, and here's what I love. The word complained doesn't necessarily mean complained right there. The word complained, and even down in the footnote below, it's the word meditated. "I meditated, and my spirit was overwhelmed.
Selah." That has been my whole experience in life. And the many times that I have been in the most depressing anxiety, fear, all those feelings we talked about at the very beginning, times when I felt like the Lord had abandoned me, it came with a lot of time to meditate and think on, and ask the question, why?
Like, "Why am I going through this? Why is this so hard?" W- again, what am I supposed to learn? But I'm not real good at that, Chere. Like, that's my goal, to get better at that question. 'Cause I don't really wanna learn anything, I just want it to be over. But I, I do love this, like, I remembered God and was troubled.
Don't you love that? How the, the Come, Follow Me lesson said you can still feel troubled and sad and abandoned and all of those, but you just have to remember that, right there, remember God 'cause He's gonna get you through it. And so go ahead and meditate, and know that even though your spirit is overwhelmed, selah.
Like, just rest- Mm-hmm ... in that. And, and it's gonna take some time to get the answers. I think that's my hardest part, is I'm, I just want the answer immediately. I want everything to work out. I don't wanna take the time that it's going to take for this specific prayer to be answered. And I think that's what my life has taught me, is that the answers do come, not immediately.
So just know, for me, Tammy, you're in it to win it, but it's gonna be a long haul. And so I have to a- and that's what I love about the Psalm 77, because then four through nine says that, "Thou holdest mine eyes waking. I am so troubled that I cannot speak." Boy, who, haven't you felt that way in your life? "I'm so troubled that I cannot speak."
Yeah. "I have considered the days of old and the years of ancient times." That's totally me. Like, all right, I've read my scriptures. I know what you've done for all the other people. "I call to remembrance my song in the night." And that's where it goes back to you, Susan. Like, you wrote your song. You wrote your own history.
And so that makes me think I've got to go back and do my bullet point of tender mercies so that I can remember my song in the night. "I commune with mine own heart and my spirit made diligent search. Will the Lord cast off forever and will He be favorable no more? Is His mercy clean gone forever? Doth His promise fail forevermore?
Hath God forgotten to be gracious? Hath He in anger shut up His tender mercies? Selah." And I love the selah there, like, 'cause that's me complaining, and the Lord's like, "All right, just think about what you just said. Like, just rest. Of course I haven't shut up my graciousness, and of course I haven't shut up my tender mercies.
I am here. I will be with you." And Chere, when you taught us that, the, I, I loved so much that the falling of tears is prayer. Boy, if that's true, I've- Mm-hmm ... I mean, some of us who have the gift of crying pray a lot. Yeah, it's so true It's actually, I love it 'cause it's an invitation to go ahead and cry. Cry it out.
Right? Yes. Cry all you want, 'cause at least you can have that as a representation, right? You can go to God and say, "Look at all my tears. I have been praying nonstop." Yeah. And so the thing I've loved about 77 are the Selah moments in my life where He's like, "Just meditate, just rest, just think on everything that you're praying about.
I'm gonna work through it with you. You're gonna be fine." And that's the thing, I always am. It always works out with God. And, and in fact, I just have to share, 'cause this is one of my absolute favorite quotes, and I used it in a lesson that I got to teach a couple of weeks ago on Relief Society, and I knew I wanted to share this for this lesson too.
And so I've been looking for this forever, and I could never find it, and all of a sudden the Spirit was like, "Try this," and I found the quote. Oh, I love that. So this is by Howard W. Hunter, and it's in a book called The Teachings of Howard W. Hunter. It's my favorite quote by him, and he says... And this is how I feel about the Book of Psalms.
I think David believes this. All of the other writers of the songs believe this. It says, "If our lives and our faith are centered on Jesus Christ and His restored gospel, nothing can ever go permanently wrong. On the other hand, if our lives are not centered on the Savior and His teachings, no other success can ever be permanently right."
Mm-hmm. And that is the theme of my life. So I, I love the word permanent, 'cause when things are tough for my children or my friends, I just say, "It's not permanent. It's not permanent. With the Savior Jesus Christ, you are gonna get through it." And that is the reminder to me for the Book of Psalms, like, none of it's permanent.
You just keep praying, keep crying, let those tears flow freely, um, because the Lord, He is going to absolutely help us. And so just rest on that. Rest on the promise that God has remembered you. He's gonna carry you in His right... He's gonna m- you know, hold you in your, His right hand. I just, I love that message.
So that's my favorite one right there, Psalm 77. It made me think when Susan was talking about all of her tender mercies and putting them together. Mm-hmm. So the historian in me always is like, "We need to keep a journal," and we, you know- Yes ... we need to do that stuff. But I don't love... Like, there's journals I read and I think, "They don't want me reading this and knowing things about them."
Oh, I bet. So I'm like, "I don't really want to leave some of this stuff, you know, to my kids." But I love the idea of having a journal that's just about the tender mercies. Yes. And then they don't get lost in your other journal that you can't ever find them. Mm-hmm. But if you have something that you can just turn to and read through and know, "Okay, tonight I'm go- I saw God's hand in my life and I'm gonna write it down in this one particular place.
This is, this is where I'm going." So, um, I think it's really inspired me to do better with that and make that because we can- you know, to remember. We've been taught to remember. We hear that over and over and again. Yeah. And, and God, that's how God teaches us and helps us and, and He can't always bring things to our remembrance if we don't write them down, so there's so many things we forget.
Yeah. Elder Eyring, several years ago, talked about that, just that. Yeah. He had a journal where he wrote down where he- God's hand in your life ... saw God's hand in his life. Yeah. Yeah. And every day he would say, "Where today did I see God's hand in my life?" And these things that I've written down, my bullet points, they're all, like the more dramatic ones that you see and, you know, almost can't forget.
But the more you recognize- Right ... them, the more they happen. Mm-hmm. Or the more you're able to recognize them, and they do happen every day. Well, and they're small things all the time that we think, "Oh, I'll never forget that," or you know, that- Yeah. Oh, but we do ... and then it's gone in a week. Yes. You don't remember it.
Yeah. So I do think I need to be better at that. And, and the thing that always kept me from doing it is thinking, "Well, they just get lost in a journal," you know? It would be so hard to find them again. Mm-hmm. But not if that's your journal. Your tender mercies journal. And I don't, I wouldn't feel bad about my kids reading about those things, so.
Those are the stories I wanna read. Exactly. The tender mercies journal. What a great idea. Yeah. That's my challenge to everyone. Wow. Start your tender mercy journal. In fact, that will be my question I'm gonna ask, "What's one tender mercy?" Just one thing in your day that you notice that the Lord helped you with.
Because the, yeah, that is, those are the stories we wanna share, and that is what your book is, Chere, that you wrote for your kids. Yeah. In a sweet, subtle way, here are some off- awesome, without using the word tender mercies even, 'cause- Right ... that sometimes can be triggering for people. A trigger. Mm-hmm. But it's okay.
These are the great stories about things that have happened in my life. Like, I love it for both of you, so thank you. Thank you so much. That was great. Okay, so in the next segment, then we're just gonna talk about a word. I can't wait to show you what it is and teach it to you in Hebrew. We'll do that next.
Segment 6
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We are gonna go to Psalm 61:2 and then Psalm 62:2, because right here on this page, there's a word that we wanna mark. Chere, will you please read verse two? "From the end of the earth will I cry unto thee, when my heart is overwhelmed. Lead me to the rock that is higher than I." Okay. And Susan, will you read 62:2?
"He only is my rock and my salvation. He is my defense. I shall not be greatly moved." Okay, let's mark the word rock in both of those verses. Here's the word rock in Hebrew. It's tsoo, and you can spell it in English T-S-O-O-R, but it's kind of like a TZ, like tzor. And what this word rock in Hebrew means is rock, but a- also can mean cliff or boulder.
Now I'm gonna give you a cross-reference for the word rock. So rock, cliff, or boulder, let's go to Isaiah 26:4 and read this cross-reference. So Susan, will you please read Isaiah chapter 26 verse four, and tell us why we read this verse. Isaiah 26:4, tr- um, "Trust ye in the Lord forever, for in the Lord Jehovah is everlasting strength."
And what I read about everlasting strength is that in Hebrew it means rock of ages. Is that so cool. Okay. So here's what I want us to think about. Isn't this great? Trust in the Lord forever, in the Lord Jehovah is the rock of ages. So here he is- Mm-hmm ... the rock, the rock of ages. And I wanted you two to think about this, and I prepped you two with this question because what I wanted to know is what does it mean to you to think of Jesus as a rock, a cliff, a boulder, or rock of ages?
Why would he use this imagery for us? A protection, a refuge Uh, shelter. Uh, something that endures forever and is unchanging. I like that. Yeah. Um, I was thinking about this recently. I was studying about David and Goliath and his stones- Mm-hmm ... that he picked up the five stones, and how those can be symbolically our stones of faith.
But they'll mean nothing unless we have that rock, the rock that it came from. Ooh. And Jesus Christ is that rock. So without the rock, the stones are worthless, right? And, and so then it made me think of, um, Helaman 5:12, "And now my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which you are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build, they cannot fall."
And so that, when I think of that scripture, I think of myself standing on this rock, but I'm ... I have, like, a whirlwind and, like, a hurricane hand happening around me, and rain and everything. But He's given me an umbrella to shield myself and- Yeah ... and be this, like, h- the shelter. So not only is ... am I standing on the rock, He's sheltering me from everything going on.
He's not taking it away, but He's helping me get through it in a way that shelters me. So I kind of ... That- that's kind of what I think. And so when Christ is our rock, we can trust that He's gonna give us His grace- Mm-hmm ... which is just gonna enlarge us and ab- uh, give us abilities beyond our strength and our, and our normal ability.
And then He's gonna fight our battles. He's gonna prepare us for what's ahead, and He will answer us. So all of those things encompasses that rock. And then as I stand on that rock, I can chip away and get the stones of faith that I need, so. Oh, that's a great imagery. That is awesome. Yeah, I like that. In fact, the fact that you just shared that, Chere, let's go back in to Psalm 62, and let's read verses 5 through 8.
Each one of us will take a verse, 'cause it perfectly applies to what both of you had said. And notice the times you see rock, and circle it when you see it. Okay, we'll start with verse 5. We'll go Susan, Chere, then me. "My soul, wait thou only upon God, for my expectation is from him." He only is my rock and my salvation.
He is my defense. I shall not be moved In God is my salvation and my glory. The rock of my strength and my refuge is in God Trust in him at all times. Ye people, pour out your heart before him. God is a refuge for us. Selah. There it is. Rest and meditate on that. Look back at those verses and tell me what stood out to you from verses five through eight.
In verse six, I shall not be moved, 'cause it echoes, uh, verse two, I shall not be greatly moved. Mm-hmm. But it's a little stronger. It's like, I shall not be moved. So yeah, that was kinda cool. I like that. I love, He is my defense. Like, He's gonna fight my battles. He's gonna be there. He's gonna be a shield.
Mm-hmm. When things get hard, He'll be that shield. And then, um, to trust in Him at all times. Yeah. Pour out your heart before Him Yeah. If we have somebody we can trust with everything, the hardest things th- in our heart is he's telling us, "Trust, trust me. Trust me with all of that. Tell me." Yeah. "I wanna hear it, 'cause I'm there.
I'm there. I'm going to, I'm going to be your rock. I'm gonna be your strength. I'm gonna be your refuge. I'm gonna be your defense. I, I'm not gonna move from you. I'm here always." So... And don't you love that all of those words, all of those words are defensive? They're not preventative. Ah. They're words that are helping you in the middle of whatever it is that s- you're going through.
He's not saying you're never gonna have any hard times. He's saying, "When they come, here's what I'll be for you, a defense. I'm not gonna move. I'll be your refuge." Don't you love that refuge is used twice in there? Yeah. I looked up the word refuge, 'cause I think it's so powerful. It means a safe place, and you talked about this, Chere, with the umbrella.
Like, it's a safe place. It's a shelter. It's protection from... This was what stood out to me. Refuge means protection from distress, difficulty, or danger. Doesn't mean it won't be there. It's just gonna protect you from maybe, as hard as it might be without Him, it's easier with Him, and so He's gonna help you through that, so.
Well, well, we know that we're here on Earth to be proved, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And to have trials. He would not be a loving, um, Father in Heaven and an elder brother without the trials. If He took it away from us, that's what Satan wanted. Mm-hmm. And, and not taking them away from us, but it doesn't mean that He's gonna leave us alone, that He's there to g- help us get the experience that we wanted so badly and, and fought that war in Heaven about.
And I love that idea, is that He wants us to have a knowledge. He wants us to have experience. He wants us to become like Him- And I won't leave you alone. I'll help you through it. So. Yeah. And not just help you through it, but teach you through it, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, as y- both of you were thinking, I thought that is all the scriptures are about.
That's the entirety of it all, is you're gonna have hard times, and I'm gonna help you through it. Because could you imagine the opposite if he wasn't? Then the scriptures would be much- Uh-huh ... smaller. In fact, it'd be one page, and the only thing on the page would be, "Good luck." Good luck. I was thinking the same thing.
That's the only message he'd have for us. "Good luck. We'll see you on the other side." But it's not. You have pages and pages filled where the Lord's like, "I'm here. I'll help you. Just come to me. Go ahead and cry. It's fine. Water your pillow by night, no problem. Go ahead and complain or meditate on the hardship you're going through, but I am here.
I've got you. I'm gonna help you through it." And so that has been the message from both of your stories today. Thank you so much, ladies. What a wonderful Spirit-filled lesson we've had. This is so awesome. What... Wow, what a great way to spend a morning. Thank you for saying yes, 'cause by the way, listeners, we recorded pretty early in the morning, and I had to wake these ladies up.
So thank you. I'm just kidding. I didn't have to wake them up, but ... And, and a later hour would've been nice. You kinda had to wake me up. I love you both. Okay. So do this and just gather all your thoughts from our discussion today and tell me what is one eternal truth that you learned? What's something that you were like, "Oh, I didn't know that," or hadn't considered that, or something new?
And when you go, it's just a short sentence Okay. Um, even the falling of a tear is a prayer Oh, yes. Yeah There, there are so many types of prayers, right? Yeah. And that's... Yeah, I'd never thought of that. It's very cool. Loved it. I loved, Susan, when you shared about the hymns and how much they comforted you and gave you peace and helped you.
It, it kind of brought to mind my son who has left the church. One of the things that has given me such peace is that he quotes to me songs, lines from hymns, from the primary songs, f- scriptures. And I think, "Okay, I did give him that foundation, and he did learn those things, and they are literally imprinted on his soul."
And so he's on his own faith journey, and God is, has him because I did what they said in the Psalms here about, you know, your children and, and teaching them and caring for them. In fact, there was one, um, 86:15 and 16, "But thou, oh Lord, art a God full of compassion and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.
Oh, turn unto me and have mercy upon me. Give thy strength unto thy servant and save the son of thy handmaid." And that, when... That, I read that verse, that wh- just thinking about my son and where he's at and just knowing that God has him, and then you talked about, you know, hy- hymns and how it has come to you, and it just made me think of that, how they're there.
The things that- Yeah ... that the doctrine he was taught as a young child and, and has taken in is there. It's imprinted on his soul and, and so I don't worry so much. Especially those primary hymns. Right? They're so simple- So- ... just distilled truth, right? It just makes you feel like, "Okay, I did my part. I can let it go.
It's his journey. It's not mine anymore." So- Yeah ... uh, thank you- Absolutely ... for reminding me of that. Wow. So good. Thank you ladies for sharing. That was so powerful. And thank you for our discussion today because I have felt the spirit so strong, and I wrote so many notes. But to simply put it, Susan, when you shared your story about your grandmother, I will forever, when I see someone chewing gum-
I will absolutely have my hope set in God again and again. And when I chew gum, I will be reminded of her story. That was so cool, and I love that. Of course, I loved more. I mean, I love that you talked, you don't even know, but your, your grandma when you said her willingness to sacrifice for God. Mm-hmm. That was so powerful, so thank you.
And then Chere, how great was it when you said, "Help me to learn what you need to teach me." Someday I'm gonna say that prayer, but not right now, but that's my goal. And of course, the Tender Mercy Journal, Susan, so thank you. Thank you, ladies. That's it. We're done. Yeah. Thanks, Tammy. Thank you, Tammy. Oh, that was so powerful.
What a great discussion. There are so many things I'm sure that you've learned, and I'd love to know what eternal truth or what takeaway do you have from this lesson. So join our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram and share what you have learned. I'd love to hear about a tender mercy, so comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts.
You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. And go there anyway because it's where we're gonna have the links to all the references as well as a transcript for this whole discussion. So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living.
It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today, our perfect for this discussion study group participants were Chere Clark and Susan Christensen. And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.
Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember that you really are God's favorite.