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Segment 1
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If you were given the task to persuade your family or friends to believe in Jesus Christ, and you could only use scripture, what scripture would you choose? Because Nephi, he had to do that, and he did that with his brothers. And he says in 1 Nephi, "But that I might more fully persuade them to believe in their Lord and their Redeemer, I did read unto them that which was written by the prophet Isaiah."

He used those scriptures in Isaiah. Going back to that question I asked at the beginning, was Isaiah on your bingo card? Well, maybe after today's discussion, we will be like Nephi and Jacob, who did the same, and we will use the words from Isaiah chapters 50 through 57. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together.

I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, follow the link in our description. It's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study, just like my longtime listening friend, Carlene Blackmer. Carlene, I loved meeting you. Now, the most awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends.

So it's always a little bit different each week. So today I'm so excited to introduce you to Dr. Jennifer C. Lane and my good friend, Sharmaine Howell. Hi, ladies. Hey there. Hi, Tammy. Good to be here. Oh, it's good to have you here. This is so exciting. Now, everyone, Jennifer, people know who Shar is, because Shar has been on this podcast now for seven years, Shar?

I... Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Woo. I mean, your kids are grown. It's fun. I know. You got a kid on a mission. Jeez. Yeah. Yeah. So we love Shar. But Jennifer, tell us a little bit about yourself, because you're new to our podcast and I'm so glad you said yes. Oh, it's a pleasure to be here with you both. Um, my husband and I taught at BYU Hawaii.

Uh, so we're on the religious education faculty. I've got a PhD in religion with an emphasis in history of Christianity. And, um, I just taught a lot of Old Testament, New Testament with a new curriculum, Jesus Christ and the Everlasting Gospel. So, so I love teaching about the Savior and also doing research and writing.

That helps me and hopefully other people understand some of, particularly the Old Testament concepts and terms that are so powerful, and some of those come out in our reading today. So I'm, I'm excited to, to look at these texts together. Well, I am so glad that you said yes. And for everyone listening, Jennifer knows her stuff.

Like, I- she was gracious enough to help me because I was preparing a talk for BYU Women's Conference, and I had researched a little bit about Jennifer and my topic, and I knew that she knows about what I was teaching. And so she spent an entire hour with me. Can you stand that, Shar? An entire hour of her day.

I love spending time with you, Tammy. Of course I was grateful. Oh, you're so nice. But she just answered all my questions, and she helped explain everything. And so Jennifer, I will forever be grateful for that because it helped me immensely with my talk. Yeah. So thank you, thank you. My pleasure. And you've woven some of those topics into our discussion today, so I'm excited.

It, it's, it's great material and it, it's just exciting to talk about. Very cool. Very cool. Okay. Well, for those of you who wanna know more about my guests and see their pictures and read their bios, you wanna check those out in our show notes. You're gonna find them at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. And Shar, we need an updated picture.

Yeah, probably, huh? Yeah. Or maybe, maybe- Yeah, make sure you, should have sent that in ... holding like a little baby. She's no baby anymore. I know, 'cause I said, "Is your little baby in school?" And you're like, "She's in third grade." Oh, okay. Great. Yeah. She's grown. All grown up. So everyone grab your scriptures and something to mark them with, and let's dig into Isaiah chapters 50 through 57.

Okay, this is so fun. So the very first thing we wanna talk about is this word that seems to be sort of the buzzword, Hebrew word of the day for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We can't get enough of it. We love to talk about it, and the word is hesed. So Jennifer, teach us about that word and how it connects to Isaiah chapters 50 through 57.

What is hesed? Okay. Um, this is a powerful term, and it's, it gets hidden in our King James Version. One of the best translations is covenant love and loyalty, also can be steadfast love or constant love. Um, but it ha- To really understand it, we have to go back and, and realize that the message is about the Lord's re- relationship with His covenant people.

And so because of the covenant relationship that He has, um, this is the kind of love that He has. And I think we can understand that when we understand that in the ancient world, covenants weren't just contracts, they created family relationships. So we think about family being created through marriage, family being created through adoption.

People that weren't related are then adopt- adopted in, become part of the family, or marry each other, and now they create a family. That's what happens when we make covenants, is the Lord becomes our covenant Father. Um, and so what... Once we understand that, then hesed makes more sense because this covenant love and loyalty is the way He feels about us as His, as children of the covenant.

And so, um, tied to that is what He does because of that love, in, which is to go and to redeem. In fact, the word that's used over and over again, and it shows up in these passages, to describe the Lord Jehovah in the Old Testament is goel or kinsman redeemer. So this, it's a family relationship. And so because of the family relationship, um, the Lord, for His covenant people, has a responsibility to go and seek them out, to rescue them, to pay the price, to redeem them if they've gotten into bondage.

And that was something that existed among humans, and the Lord is using that social structure language to describe His relationship with His covenant people, with His covenant family. And so hesed is the love that He feels that leads Him to go and to redeem. And that's gonna help us understand these passages.

We understand Him coming in Isaiah 35 as the suffering servant, is Him coming to suffer to redeem us. Gathering scattered Israel is redeeming Israel. And then each of us in our moments of despair and loss, He is reaching out to redeem us, to, to rescue us, to bring us back. And that is motivated, that act of redemption is motivated by that covenant love and loyalty.

He loves us as His covenant children. He, He isn't going to abandon us. He wants to come and, and And help us, but we also have to turn to him. We choose to repent, and then he can bring us back. So sort of that two-way dimension of the relationship is important. But yet he, he doesn't give up even if we turn our back on him, so we're gonna see some of those, um, passages in these texts.

Well, the way you just described that is such a great intro into Isaiah 50:1 because now that you understand that this hesed is this covenantal love, I love how you explained that the Lord, Jehovah, who also we c- call Redeemer, and that word Redeemer in Hebrew is goel. And so you could actually draw a little family line of this, but you have this goel, this redeemer, and his job in ancient days was to take care of the family.

Correct? Absolutely. To make sure all their needs were met. He would fight their battles. If something was going on, you could go to the goel or the redeemer and say, "I'm starving." And he'd be like, "Great, I will feed you." But you had to enter a covenant with this goel to join his household. And you could even be, you could be part of the family through marriage, you could be part of the family through adoption.

Absolutely. And adoption is through this covenant that we make. So when we make covenants with the Lord, we're being adopted into his family, and that Jehovah's saying, "Great, I'm your goel. From here on out, I will redeem you, and nothing's gonna change that, no matter how naughty you are," right? He wants to bring us back.

He wants ... He's gonna do everything he can do. Now, we can refuse to receive, and we'll see some passages, what he's offering us, but he pays the ransom price. He comes searching for us because that is who he is. And so when we understand that Jesus Christ is Jehovah of the Old Testament, we understand when he came to suffer and die, that's the fulfillment of this covenant and relationship.

He wants to rescue and to redeem all who will enter into his covenant and will be his covenant people. Okay, so Jennifer, teach us verse one, 'cause the wording of this- Mm ... can be so confusing, but when you understand the wording and how it's being spoken, then you're like, "Oh, okay. That is the greatest verse ever."

Yeah. It took me a while to figure it out, so will you teach it to us? Well, this is, is kind of sneaky. As Latter-day Saints, we have to actually, in order to understand chapter 50, verse one, we're best off if we go to 2 Nephi 7, verse one. Okay. Because the version of Isaiah that Jacob had, that he's using, has an extra sentence.

Oh. And that extra sentence right before what our Isaiah text actually helps it make even more sense. The Isaiah text just starts, "Thus saith the Lord, where is the bill of thy mother divorcement? Whom have I put away? Which my..." In other words, "Did I separate myself from you? Did I get rid of you?" And he's saying, "No, I

This isn't ... I haven't separated our relationship. You sold yourselves. Behold, for your iniquities you sold yourselves. For your transgressions is your mother put away." So there's this sense of you've made choices that have separated yourself from the relationship. It's not me, it's you. Mm. But if you go to, um, the, the, the, that sort of preface phrase or sentence, I mean, we're gonna assume that that m- was probably there in the original.

We just ... This is what Jacob had. He added one sentence in addition to this. It says, "Yea, for thus saith the Lord, have I put thee away or have I cast thee off forever?" Mm. And if, if you know the preface to the Book of Mormon, that phrase, "Cast thee off forever-" Mm ... has really powerful resonance because- When Moroni's writing the title page, he, he is, he's seen it all.

He, he knows the entire text, and he, he's telling us why the Book of Mormon comes. And one of the reasons he says it's coming is to show to the remnant of the House of Israel the great things the Lord hath done for their fathers, that they may know the covenants of the Lord and that they are not cast off forever.

Oh, cool. So this is, I mean, the Lord's hesed. This is, He doesn't want to be separated from His covenant people. He doesn't cast us off. If we are separated, it's because we have removed ourselves. So that's, that's I think the best way to understand what's happening in verse one. He's saying, "Did I cast you off?

Did I put you away?" So like if, "Did I seek, uh, to sever our relationship?" And then He's saying, "No, I didn't do it. You did it. For your transgressions- Mm-hmm ... sold yourselves." So that rather than being with Him and being united and part of the family, we've been separated and have, have sold ourselves into slavery, which people would do.

Yeah. And that's part of why we need redeemers 'cause if we get in slavery, we can't get ourselves out of it. We need somebody else to come and buy us out of that bondage. Don't you love that so much more in 2 Nephi 7? 'Cause then when He says, "Have I put you away? Have I cast you off forever?" It's almost like He's saying, "Okay, well then if I did, prove it."

Like- Yeah ... "Where's the bill of your mother's divorcement? And, like, let Me see it, and show Me who I put you away to, your creditors that I sold you." Yeah. Like now that makes so much more sense. Oh, before when I would read that, I'm like, "Wait, what? What, mother's divorcement?" But I love that the Lord's like, "Well, prove to Me that I sold you and then we can talk.

But as far as I'm concerned, I never did. You sold yourselves." We're- "You walked away from Me" ... we're so related. From His, from His point of view- Mm-hmm ... He wants to bring us back. Yeah. Even if we want to separate ourselves from Him, He doesn't give up. And I think that- Yeah ... this is that hesed is, is the family love that doesn't give up.

That, you know, just because the kids have walked away and, "I, I don't wanna be a part of your family anymore," the Lord doesn't feel as though it's over. It's not over for Him, and He's gonna do everything He can to invite us back and make it possible for us to come back. I just had a quick question, Jennifer.

I'm gonna probably be bringing us down to, like, the, you know, Isaiah for Dummies level a lot on this- No, no, no ... episode. But- Important to ask ... first question- That's why you're here, Shar. First question, hesed, I know, I know, uh, we've heard a lot about this. It's H-E-S-S-I-D? Is that how you spell it? Yeah. Um, it's usually transliterated as H-E-S-E-D.

Okay. And so- The Hebrew, the, the H, the, the letter that it's coming from has more of a huh sound. Okay. So it's, we usually say hesed. Okay. Yeah. Um, but in English we'd probably just say hesed, and that's fine too. Okay. Yeah. I'm not gonna be- It's the same word ... very good at saying things- Yeah ... Hebrewly today.

It's, yeah, He- hesed is one- That, that's okay ... yeah. Yeah. Second, second question is, is it like a- Translation ... you know how we talk a lot about Hebrew words on here, is it a translation of a word that we use in the scriptures, or is it just a Hebrew word that we don't have in the scriptures, but it just is, adds meaning to what we know about God's love?

Yeah. It actually shows up over, and over, and over again. In, one of the best ways to see it is if you read in a parallel translation, there's words that it gets translated as. So if you see comp- So, like, if there's a word love, it might have been written as hesed- It might be ... and it might have been written as a different Hebrew word Yeah

or- You see words like Constant love, covenant love Okay ... steadfast love. In the King James version, it often turns, looks like loving kindness. Okay. But those are the kind of words that they use in English to communicate, uh, so it does run through the Hebrew Bible over and over- Okay ... and over again. But it gets translated slightly different ways because it's hard to capture in English- Yeah

full meaning, because that full meaning is this- Is what you just explained. This whole- Yeah ... big feeling of it. And that- Yeah ... I guess my last question is, I love the thought that you're saying, you know, it's this covenant relationship that He will never leave because He's in it now with us, and we're, you know, fickle humans that might just want to go and come and go and come.

Yeah. Um, so as the way we enter into that covenant relationship with Him is baptism, correct? Right. Right. With, with, I mean, we- definitely with the Restoration, and then what we know about ancient times as well. With the Old Testament, uh, under the Law of Moses, they may have had slightly different practices for bringing in people to the covenant.

Okay. People were born into the covenant, but then they also did certain things. Like today we'll talk about Jewish young men or young women having a bar mitzvah or a bat mitzvah. It means to become a son of the covenant or a daughter of the covenant. Okay. Um, so that there's, there's this sense of yes, you're born into it, but you also, uh, you commit yourself to it.

There were some times, and we'll see this in one of our chapters as well, people who from the outside would join themselves to the covenant. Mm-hmm. But typically it was, um, they thought of it as themselves as almost like the covenant people as sort of genealogy. Like, this is who we are and we can trace our lineage back- Right, because they're born into those families

to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Right. Okay. And we're the descendants of the House of Israel. Okay. So technically we would be born into it as well and not adopted? Well- Is that what you're saying? No, no, that's, that's, I mean, that's what's interesting in the latter days, is that- Yeah ... every covenant makes everybody...

So baptisms is, is the key covenant for becoming part of the House of Israel, whether or not we're genetically... In the end, doesn't matter because It's about desire. And covenants show what we want. If we want to be part of the house of Israel, then the Lord want- is inviting ... And that's really the beautiful thing of the latter days, is the Lord is inviting everybody to be part of his covenant people.

And there's this beautiful passage in 2 Nephi 30:2 where N- Nephi's been teaching, and teaching, and teaching. He's getting near the end of his teaching, and he's wrapping it up. And everything he's been trying to build from Isaiah, he's been precisely to make this point, that as many as the Gentiles that will repent are the covenant people of the Lord.

And we know the, the very next chapter he's gonna go in and talk about the doctrine of Christ, faith, repentance, baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost. So it says, "As many as the Gentiles who repent are the covenant people of the Lord, and as many of the Jews," the one people who are biologically descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob- Mm-hmm

"will not repent shall be cast off, for the Lord covenanted with none, save it be with them that repent and believe in His Son, who is the Holy One of Israel." So in the end, it's, it's ... So it's sort of both. The Lord remembers this covenant people who are descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He honors that.

He honors, honors the covenants that were made by the fathers, and He'll seek after the descendants. But in the end, the people who are part of the covenant are people who want to be. So nobody's better than anybody else. Descent isn't going to matter at all. Yeah. I like how you said it's about desire. It is about desire.

And so if you desire to have a relationship with Jesus Christ- Yeah ... then you're in. Like, that is so- Covenant ... perfect- Yeah ... 'cause it's ... And, and it k- reminds me of the temple- Yeah ... the temple questions when we get, uh, recommend. You know, like, are we striving? Like- Yeah ... we're not asked to do that much. We're gonna desire, and then He's gonna be like, "All right, I'm all in."

You know? Yeah. Well- Yeah ... I'll take that. I want that on my side. Yeah. Absolutely. I like that part. And this, I think, is ... You, you put ... You absolutely ... That's what we're doing with the doctrine of Christ. Faith, repentance, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, is we're saying we want to be Christ's family.

And you go to Mosiah chapter five where King Benjamin explains. He says, "Because of the covenant you've made, ye are the children of Christ." So he, he, he puts those together really clearly- Uh-huh ... that covenant creates this family relationship with the Lord. Jehovah who is- Mm-hmm ... Jesus Christ. Wow. Jennifer, that was awesome.

Yeah. Such a great explanation of all that. And that's just one word. Yeah. And one, one ver- and one verse of scripture. So let's take this idea then of this covenant relationship that we have with our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, and with that then, in the next segment, I want you to teach us how that covenant relationship can give us confidence.

We'll do that next

Segment 2
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Okay, Shar, I have a quick question because you just said today is your kids' first day of school. Mm-hmm. They started school later than a lot of our kids did. Yeah. Um, we also recorded this, like, in September. Mm-hmm. So FYI, everybody listening, we're a little weeks, a couple weeks ahead. So as you're getting your kids ready for school, and maybe some of them are nervous, I just wanna know, what are some things that maybe you said to your kids to give them confidence?

Um, I said, "You're gonna be home in eight hours." "Don't worry about it. Can't, can't be too bad today." Actually, we were not very prepared. Even though we started, like, past Labor Day, we weren't prepared. We weren't ready for school to start. We went to open house and didn't have any of our school supplies to bring- Sure

to put in our cubbies. Our teacher was like, "Put all your stuff." "Oh, wait, you don't have stuff. That's okay." And I think I felt like I wasn't preparing my kids with that confidence to start off the day. And I was like, "Guys, it's okay because it's just school supplies. We can get all that later. All that matters is that you have a great day today."

So it was more- Oh, my gosh ... it was more of, like, "All this stuff is just a no biggie. We can bring it any time. Just go make some good friends and you've got this." So I don't know how much- Ah ... confidence I actually gave them this year, but let's hope they're doing great today. I wrote all of that down because I thought that might be the most perfect answer as we segue into this next idea.

Because I feel like when our heavenly parents and Jesus Christ, when we left their presence, they were like, "Don't worry, you'll be home soon." Yeah. It's- Yep ... it's just a little blip. Yeah. You're gonna be just fine. It's gonna be okay. 'Cause you were, we were probably like, "But we're not prepared to go down there."

Yeah. "What if we forget?" And they're like, "You will." Yeah, fun fact. Right. The veil. You'll forget all of it. Shoot, you're gonna forget. Um, we won't feel prepared, and they're like, "It's okay. Just go down there and have a great day. Make good friends." Don't you love that? Of course. Make good friends, make good choices, and that is the message of our next chapter.

And all this stuff doesn't matter. Right? All this stuff doesn't matter. You're not gonna need it anyway. Just go, it's gonna be okay. The Nike Pro shoes, all that. Don't, don't worry about it. You'll get it later. It's so true, Shar, 'cause there's only one thing that matters. Oh. That is it, and it's this idea.

Again, we've talked about hesed, but Jennifer- Mm ... I love that you pointed out, uh... Because Jennifer and I worked together on this outline, and I loved so much that she said that one of the most important things we need to remember is that covenants are a true source of confidence. So teach us what you meant about that.

How can we be confident through our covenants? Yeah, and, and in the end it goes back to Christ and having this relationship with him. A covenant relationship with him means that we can have confidence that he will be there for us. Oh. And that's, like, again, that's that family, right? Mm-hmm. That the, the, the best kind of family, that you know that your spouse is gonna be there for you, you know your parents are gonna be there for you.

That's, that's our ideal in the human world. And humans don't always follow through, but Christ does. And so he is always there for us. And because of our covenant, he is sure. And we don't need the stuff, we need him. And so I think that is- Oh, I like that ... that, that relationship is the key. And sometimes it's taught poetically, and we have to, to, to- To start looking for covenant relationship.

And I think here in chapter 51, we get a beautiful parallel, um, text that can help us tease that out a little bit. So if you look in verse one, the way Isaiah is teaching about trusting the Lord, he says, "Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness." So we, we want to be His. Mm-hmm. We want to be with Him, we want to be like Him.

"Hearken unto me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the Lord." So it's that desire. We want to be His, we want to be with Him and to be close to Him, but we struggle, and we ... Sometimes we get discouraged and overwhelmed. I can't do this, and we want to give up. And I think what He wants us to remember is our capacity is not the issue, that we have to look to the source and power.

And so if you look at the next phrases, this is very, very common in, in Hebrew poetry to h- to say things twice, to use similar words, but that parallel each other. So he says, "Look unto the rock when she are hewn." To the hole of the pit whence you're digged. So, so you came from somewhere, right? So going back to this, the rock out of which we came or the pit from which w- like we were there.

And, and so we could use it to think about, oh, we were premortal. That's one way to think about it. But if we go on to verse two, I think it gives us the explanation that I think Isaiah's pointing to, 'cause then he says, "Look," he's paralleling again. He says, "Look to the rock, look to the hole." So look ... So kind of the chip off the old block.

You know, you were, you used to be there and now you're here. Mm-hmm. But, but where we're looking to is tied to Old Testament. It's like what, what's happening here? "Look unto Abraham your father, and to Sarah that bare you." So you have a little bit of the parallelism with the rock and the hole of the pit where you're digged out of.

So we have this father, this mother imagery, and then sort of this Abraham and Sarah have a unique status. And so he says, "I called him alone and blessed him and increased him." It's really talking about the both of them. Mm-hmm. Because the covenant that they made, that's the Abrahamic Covenant. We talk about the new and everlasting covenant.

Those are the covenants that we enter into as well. But because of the covenant the Lord made with Abraham, because of ... So it's, by talking about Abraham, by talking about Sarah, it's not about them as human beings. It's, it's saying, "We are children of the covenant. We have these covenant promises." Oh, beautiful.

And so he's saying, "Don't despair. I made a covenant with Abraham and Sarah, and that you are part of that covenant people." So he's using very, very poetic language here, but to, to remind us of our covenant relationship with him. Because if Abraham and Sarah have a covenant relationship and we are chips off the old block- Yeah

we're their descendants, um, then we have those covenant promises. And like we talked about in our last segment, people who are reading this would very likely be literal descendants. In our day, it's not relevant whether, you know, that, that's, it's a moot question. What matters is we're, we're part of the covenant.

We've chosen, and as we choose to be part of the covenant, we become the children of Abraham and heirs to all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob through the covenants we make in our days. So knowing ... And then we move to verse three where he talks about, okay, I will be there for you. So you and your cov- the covenant people.

And then he, he makes these promises. So you may feel like your life is a total desert. Your life is a total wasteland. Everything has fallen apart. Everything is burnt to shreds. But then the Lord says, "Because you're this covenant people," this is as our kinsman redeemer, this is what he does. He will comfort Zion.

Zion's another word for the covenant people. Mm-hmm "He will comfort all her waste places. He will make her wilderness like Eden, her desert like the garden of the Lord." So everything that was horrible is someday, through Jesus Christ, going to be made right. That's a promise we have. All things, through Christ, will be made right again.

And that's, that's why we have covenants, so we can trust that the Lord is going to be working in our lives even when ... We can't turn the desert into a garden, but He can. And we stay with Him, and we let the Holy Ghost work in our lives, then we're going to find the joy, the gladness, the thanksgiving, the voice of melody.

And that, that's the hope that comes over and over and over again in Isaiah, is do not despair. He is there, and He will turn our lives around, even though it may be very gradually. Sometimes it'll be dramatic, but a lot of times it's gradual. Mm-hmm. And some of it may happen now, and some of it may not come till heaven, as President Holland reminded us.

But, but we know that to those who are faithful to the covenant, those cleave to those covenant promises, and that's looking to the rock, looking to the whole, looking to our covenant, those promises are sure Wow. Okay, so here's my question. I mean, I'm circling these words in verse three. Mm-hmm. Joy, gladness, thanksgiving, the voice of melody.

And you said we know that this can happen now, or the... But I feel like so oftentimes the emphasis is put on it will come. Like, even though it's a hold on, like, it will come in the next life, and you might not even experience any of this in this life. But is that true, Jennifer? Can we experience joy and gladness and thanksgiving and the voice of melody and comfort right now, in the here and now?

Absolutely. That's why Christ came. He says He came that we might have life, and we might have it more abundantly. And that, what this verse is talking about is the abundant life. When we have the Holy Ghost with us, we feel the love of the Lord. No matter what our circumstances around us are, as President Nelson taught, joy does not come from our circumstances.

It comes from Christ. Christ is joy. Having a covenant relationship and living in a covenant relationship. So when we stop living in a covenant relationship, we're gonna be in a desert. But when we are living in our covenants, when we are faithful to our covenants, we feel the Lord with us, and we have hope.

Because our faith in Christ produces hope, and hope is that confidence that things will get better, that Christ will be working our lives, and that through Him things will turn around. We will have an abundant life. It's not just a- about being in the celestial kingdom. It is about this life and trusting that He wants us to have...

It's not about wealth, but it is about, uh, this abundant spiritually, emotionally, knowing that we're loved and then being able to be our best selves. That is possible only in and through covenant faithfulness, because it allows the, the Lord to nourish our hearts and our minds with the influence of the Holy Ghost.

And it's without that, without our faithfulness, the Holy Ghost won't be there to bring this, this spiritual life that the Lord wants to give us now. Wow. Do, do either of you have a story or an experience to prove this truth? Um, I don't, I can't think of like a specific story right off the top of my head, but I have been feeling like, um, a thought in my mind as you've been explaining that, Jennifer.

And, uh, my son, my oldest son is in Argentina on a mission, and the first f- couple weeks that we talked to him, we were like, "How's it going teaching the people? What are they like?" And he said so many times that he feels like they don't get the point of covenants. He's like, "They just don't... It doesn't make sense.

They're happy. They're living life, and they don't see the reason or the need for, for, for anything further, anything more in their life." And so they're just like, "Yeah, I'm good." Like, "That's a great message. I love it. Awesome." But then they just don't, they don't do anything. They don't act on it, right? So I've been like pondering that for so long, like, why do we need covenants?

Why are they important? What are they giving to me that I am so passionate about that I live it every day of my life? Like, what, like, what's the difference, you know? And I just love- Yeah ... the explanation that you just gave in that, um, verse three. The comfort, the joy, the gladness. I love that it talks about our wildernesses will be like Eden.

You know, I m- I was thinking about that as you were explaining it. The Garden of Eden is their time when they were able to walk with God and be with him, and it was- Yeah ... it was a, you know, it was to- lush and beautiful and all that, but they were with him, and I just love that- That's the key ... our life can be- I love that

with him. He makes our wilderness, this, th- you know, this life of ours that means nothing almost, into a place like Eden with him. And so I just... I, you know, it made me realize, like, we do need these covenants. There's a reason. And but sometimes it's hard to explain that to somebody who feels like, "Well, what, what's the point?"

Like- Mm-hmm ... "I'm not sure. I don't see the benefit," you know? And I think the experience I have speaks exactly to that. It wa- I was an undergraduate at BYU when President Benson was the prophet, and he was encouraging us to read the Book of Mormon every day. And I, I had been reading scriptures regularly, but I hadn't been reading the Book of Mormon every day.

And I was at a point in my life where things were not going well, and I just was kind of overwhelmed. You know, you get into fall semester and things all of a sudden, it becomes too much. And, you know, that's the little undergraduate too much. Uh, people's lives, uh, when you go on become so much more complicated, but too much can still feel like too much no matter where you are.

Yeah. And, um, I prayed for help, and then I laid down on my dorm room bed and took a nap because I didn't know what to do, so I just like ... But when I woke up, I had a very clear impression. I remembered a phrase that President Benson had shared in, in the previous general conference. He says, "When you put the Lord first, everything will fall into place or fall out of your life."

And so part of where I trusted in that was I said, "Okay, I'm gonna start reading the Book of Mormon every day." And I do think, um, going to the, the issue you brought up, Shar, that that's why the Book of Mormon is the tool for the gathering of the covenant people. Because when you study the Book of Mormon, p- people who take the time to study it, what it does is it shows us how much we need a savior.

We understand what is our condition without God, and how much do we, how much we want to be back in the presence of God. And then when we understand that, we understand covenant better, because covenant is what allows us to be back in the presence of God, because the doctrine of Christ, faith, repentance, baptism, having the gift of the Holy Ghost.

When we have the gift of the Holy Ghost, we're back in the presence of God. We have a pro- covenant promise of a member of the Godhead to be with us, and that is a kind of life, a quality of life that, you know, the missionaries- They, they can't persuade somebody by themselves- Mm-hmm ... that they need it. And that's why I think only studying the Book of Mormon prayerfully can help somebody.

'Cause it helped me to realize it. I realized how much I needed that, and I'd been baptized when I was eight, but all of a sudden, s- studying the Book of Mormon, I began to real- it all came together. And I can look at that very clear time and say, "This is not when I had a testimony, but when I really became converted," that it became real.

I realized everything I do to invite the Holy Ghost matters. Everything I do to draw close to the Lord matters, and that with His help, taking His name upon me, going back to the doctrine of Christ taught in 2 Nephi 31, with His name upon me, I realize that's His power and His enabling strength to do and be more than I could by myself.

And realizing that as this 19-year-old going on 20, looking ahead to what is my life gonna be like, it was transformative. And that is, that's the power of covenant, is to realize with Christ, we can do and be what He wants us to do and be. And we can become what we wish for, which is to ultimately become like Him.

We can't do it by ourselves. Mm. But covenant is the confidence that we will get there. Mm-hmm. He will help us get there. And people don't- Wow ... know they need it because they don't necessarily know that they don't have it. Mm-hmm. And that, I think, is why the Book of Mormon's so powerful. That makes me think of somebody in my ward just recently shared the analogy of, you know, when you jump out of an airplane, it's so fun to free fall, and then you don't know you need the parachute until you need it.

So it's, it's fun until it's not- ... when you're free falling. Yeah. Wow. And then all of a sudden when you need that parachute, you're like, "Oh, this is why I need it. This is not fun anymore 'cause I need this." Mm-hmm. You know? That's so good. But just knowing that we need, that we need God in our lives. Amen. Well, Shar, I can't wait for you to write all of this to your son on his mission.

I will. Send it to me after you've written it, okay? Yeah. I want your summation. Yeah, I will. This has been awesome. So here we are. We're two segments in with scripture you could share to absolutely help someone come to learn more about Christ and His relationship in our life. So in the next segment, we're gonna share with you some scriptures that might be able to persuade people.

In fact, these scriptures are quoted three different times in the Book of Mormon and explained in the Doctrine and Covenants, so they must be important. We'll do that next.

Segment 3
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Let's turn to Isaiah chapter 52, and I want you to bracket off verses one through three. This is repeated three different times in the Book of Mormon. Fun fact, verses six and seven are gonna be quoted six times in scripture. Not in the Book of Mormon, but six times in scripture in all. So Isaiah 52 is pretty important, and there's some things we need to know.

So Jennifer, will you take us through verses one through three? Because th- like I said, it's quoted three times in the Book of Mormon, and it's explained in the Doctrine and Covenants, Section 113. What are we talking about in these verses, and why do we need to know them? These verses are so critical, and I can't even begin to tease out, to pull out everything that's here.

Um, the S- the Savior himself uses this to teach the people at the Temple of Bountiful. I mean, these are very, very important verses. Um, I think if we, we look, read through, just read through them and try to just pull out a few concepts. We're not gonna ... And, you know, I can't talk about- Mm-hmm ... every place they're used, but I think if we just read them together, we're going to see some of this pattern of Christ wanting to come and find us in our desert places, finding us in our wilderness, finding us in our captivity.

And as our kinsmen redeemer, he wants to bring us out, and he wants to move us from a condition of separation from God and bring us back into the presence of God. So the Eden- Mm-hmm ... that Shar was talking about in the previous segment, to be walking with God, feeling his presence, to feel abundance rather than desolation and desert.

And we see the contrast really strikingly in these verses. So I'm gonna start with a question for you. Sure. So in 52:1, it says, "Awake, awake." And I notice that that appears often in the Book of Isaiah. In chapter 51, it says, "Awake, awake" in verse nine. It says it in verse 17. What is this meaning here, and what is significant about it being repeated twice?

Like, awa- 'cause I thought of Shar getting her kids up. "Awake, awake. You're gonna be late." Like, why is the Lord- Exactly what I say ... using this word for us, "Awake, awake"? Well, I, I can ... I'm not definitive on this, but I'm gonna say what it means for me. Mm-hmm. Um, my sense is that part of what the Lord is, is trying to speak to our spirits.

And- Mm ... and just like Shar talked about her son in Argentina, I was a missionary in France. People were happy. They were comfortable. And they're living their life, but spiritually there's, they're sleeping. Mm-hmm. And so I think this waking up is saying there's more to life- Mm-hmm ... than having good food and beautiful surroundings and nice friends, that there's a dimension to our reality that hungers for God.

And we're never gonna be fully awake and alive without letting that dimension of ourselves open up. So I think this is part of the spiritually- I like it ... wake up. Mm-hmm. Like, you can go through ... Like Shar talked about jumping out of a plane, and you're having so much fun, free-falling, and a lot of people go through their lives in that.

Like, everything's a little bit chaotic, but it's so fun. But then there's a point that's going to come where- They're gonna realize, "I don't have a parachute." You know, that, that, that there's something that's missing, that's profoundly missing, and nothing else will make up for it. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And I think spiritually speaking, the Lord is trying to speak to us saying, "No matter how much you have- physically, how much stuff you have, how comfortable are you, how prosperous you are, how many family and friends you have, you're, you are still asleep spiritually.

You're not alive fully spiritually without a covenant relationship with God. And so I think this waking up is, is waking from spiritual slumber to wake up to the, the first the need to have God in our life, and then to accept the invitation that he's extending. And in the latter days, we know ... And this is a lot about Isaiah's pointing ahead.

He's inviting everybody. This is why we send missionaries all throughout the world. This is why we do temple work for everybody, because everyone that's living now, everyone that has ever lived is being taught the same things in the spirit world. We're all being invited to come into Christ. And, and that invitation is an invitation to wake up.

Mm, I love it. "Put on thy strength, O Zion. Put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem." And even the covenant people ... And this I look back at my life when I talked about in the last segment about, you know, I was faithful. I was keeping the commandments, but it was only when I started reading the Book of Mormon I realized there's another dimension of life, a life where the Holy Ghost is speaking and you get guidance, and it's not just you, but you're living with God, and you're living a covenant

You're living in your covenants and in that covenant relationship. And I think the Lord is inviting us to wake up, even as covenant people. Beautiful garments, strength, these are ... They're symbols for a kind of life, a new kind of life with the Lord. I love that. And that we're gonna be different. So, like, we, we were fine before, but now we're gonna be different.

We're gonna be holy. Not just nice people. We're gonna be holy people. "For henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean." So we're, we're, we're going along. We're fine, but the Lord's saying, "No. Be as I am. Be holy, for I, the Lord your God, am holy." He wants us to be that kind of covenant people, the covenant priests and priestesses kind of people that are separating ourselves from the world and worldliness and not getting pulled into them and, and falling asleep spiritually.

So he uses these action verbs. "Shake thyself from the dust. Arise and sit down," we'll talk about that in a minute, "O Jerusalem. Loose thyself from the bands of thy neck." So sometimes when people were taken into, to captivity, they would have metal bands placed around their necks, and they'd be led along. So, "Loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion."

And then this redemption again. "Ye have sold yourselves," like we're not in captivity because he sent us into captivity. We sold ourselves. Mm. Exactly the same thing we saw in that earlier chapter. "Ye have sold yourselves for nought, but ye shall be redeemed without money." So this is his role as the Redeemer.

Jesus Christ paid the price so we could leave- The bondage of sin, the shackles, but we have to participate. His suffering isn't enough if we don't take off the bands around our neck and stop acting like slaves. Mm-hmm. And leave worldliness. Mm-hmm. Because when we get captured by a world that is alluring and glitzy and glamorous, and we wanna be part of it.

And the Lord's saying, "Leave it. Come to- Yeah ... me. Be with me. Be holy." And, and that's, that's His invitation where He says, "Shake thyself in the dust. Arise, and then sit down," is probably better translated. This is the ... This is, again, this is the Hebrew yashab means sit down literally, but when you- it's used of kings or deity, it means to take the throne, to be enthroned.

Yeah. So this is, "Stop sitting in the dirt. Come sit on the throne with me." Oh, wow. Let's see. Yashab is spelled Y-A-S-H-A-B. Is that right? Yeah. That would be- Okay. Let's spell that ... the, the typical transliteration. But it's a word that's used for pre- for kings and being enthroned. It's used, um ... I, I've got an article on it in Religious Educator, I think 2019- Very cool

about sitting down. And it's ... For people, it does mean, like, sitting in a chair or sitting of any ways, but, but this particular verb in, in terms of when God sits or when a king sits, it's always sitting on a throne. Like, we s- we talk about taking the throne. Oh. That's what we mean, is to become a king. And so to- That's neat

inviting us to, to arise from the dust and to sit down is inviting us to come and be joint heirs with Him in His Father's house, to sit on the throne with Him, to receive all the Father have. And that's ... It's a really powerful image. But we have to leave the dust. We have to leave the dirt. We have to leave the worldliness and anything that's unclean.

We can't have it both ways, and Christ is over and over again trying to tell us through, through Isaiah that He's calling us to live a new way, to wake up to who we really are, and to live as children of the covenant, and to, to become what He wants us to become. Mm. Wow. That's so good. I love that imagery.

I, I read that ... I, I know I've read this a lot in the Book of Mormon, that arise, sit down, and I'm always like, "What the heck?" Yeah. Um, but I, I love that- Mm-hmm ... description. I always just picture me, like, telling my kids, like, "Get up off your butt and come sit down at the dinner table." Like, that's what I- Yeah

thought it always meant. Yeah. It kind of does, but in a really good way. Yes. In a really good way. Come sit at the dinner table with Jesus and partake of His feast. Yes. Yes. Yes. It does mean that. I was right. Yeah. Wow, that is so cool. I thought- Mm ... that was a great way to understand those verses. Mm-hmm. I'm convinced.

I'm persuaded. These are such great verses that just lean us to our savior, again, our redeemer- Who's, who will do it for us? I mean, then you get to verse seven, "And h- and how beautiful- Oh, yeah ... upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings." I mean, it just, it is so beautiful, this idea of when we turn to him.

I love how you gave us that vision of how they have the around their necks, that they're captive. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and it really, sin does feel like that, doesn't it? Like, it's just this- Yeah ... shackle around our neck, and it, it's, it's not fun. It's uncomfortable. But how wonderful to think that he will still deliver us, he will still help us as our goel or as our redeemer.

Mm-hmm. And, and I think part of what he's doing is he's paid the price for us to be free, and this is where repentance, faith and repentance come in. 'Cause faith is trusting he's paid the price. Mm. That we're not slaves anymore. And then repentance is d- is following that language here of loosing thyself from the bands of the neck.

So that we, as we repent, we remove things that tie us down. And so it's a vision of repentance that's freeing, rather than ... Like, free is we're getting out of bondage. We're ... Christ is making it possible for us to take off- Mm-hmm ... these bands that bind us down. Oh, absolutely. In fact, let's end with this quote from Sister Tamara Runia, where she talked about repentance.

Shar, will you read this for us- Mm-hmm ... please? "Yes, your repentance doesn't burden Jesus Christ. It brightens his joy. Let's teach that, because repentance is our best news. We don't stay on the covenant path by never making a mistake. We stay on the covenant path by repenting every day. And when we're repenting, God forgives without shaming us, comparing us to anyone else, or scolding us because this is the same thing we were repenting of last week.

He's excited every time he sees us on our knees. He delights to forgive us because to him, we are delightful. Don't you just feel that's true?" Thank you. Yeah. That was April 2025. Isn't that a great quote? I love that quote. So true. It's absolutely true. Yeah. And I love this idea that he's excited every time he sees us because he's our goel, because he's our kinsman, because he wants to take care of us.

So in the next segment, we're gonna continue this discussion of the kinsman redeemer, and Jennifer's gonna teach us a little bit more from Isaiah 54. We'll do that next.

Segment 4
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Okay, we're gonna start in Isaiah, chapter 54. And we're just skipping 53? Yeah, we're skipping 53. It's a good one, Tammy. There's so much in 53. Okay. If we talked about chapter 53, we would be ... All of our segments would be on Isaiah 53. Yeah. It's so- And it's- ... powerful and testifying of Christ coming to redeem His people.

Yes. Yeah. And in fact, that's probably one of the most persuasive chapters in Isaiah- Right ... to believe in Jesus Christ. So study that on your own, everybody. There you go. There's your assignment for the week. Mm-hmm. Okay, so we're gonna go into 54- Mm-hmm ... because we are gonna still talk about this word hesed, and we're gonna talk about how it describes a collective gathering in the latter days, and especially our relationship to our Savior, h- as our kinsman and redeemer.

So let's go to Isaiah chapter 54, and we're gonna look at verse five. And let's start there. Jennifer, will you teach us about these verses that you... Verses five through eight. Why are they important? Sure. Yeah, these are themes we've been talking about over and over again, and they, they really pop out here.

So as we understand how covenant creates a family relationship, then we can understand why the Lord describes Himself both as our creator, so, "Thy maker is thy husband." So because that Old Testament uses the image of the Lord married to Israel, because it's a covenant relationship. The Lord also talks about i- it talks about the Lord as the father, covenant father of Israel.

But both of them, whether we're talking a marriage image or adoption image, the idea is creating a new family relationship. So that's, that's what it talks about here. "Thy maker is thy husband, the Lord of hosts is his name. Thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel. The God of the whole earth shall he be called."

So Jesus Christ is Jehovah. Jesus Christ is the creator of the world. Jesus Christ is our Redeemer, and He is our covenant Father. And so, s- so that's just... P- part of it is remembering that's what the first slide is all about, is who do we have this relationship with. Then go to verse six, and we go to this sense of, again, of separation.

He wants to be with us. He wants us to be with Him. And He reaches out to us when we're lost, when we're distressed. And these verses capture that almost as beautifully as anywhere in the scriptures. "For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and as a, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.

For a small moment have I forsaken thee, but with great mercies will I gather thee. In a little wrath, I hid my face from thee for a moment, but with everlasting kindness," and here's where we, that's hesed, um- "Will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer." So there are times when what we do separates us from God.

And so when we talk about His wrath, it's we're, we're separating our- ourselves from Him. It's, He, I don't think He's so much angry at, at us as is this kind of frustration that we've allowed, that we've chosen the world over Him, that, and not in the sense of being petty, like, "Oh, they don't like me anymore."

I, I don't think it's that kind of feeling. I think it's, He knows that we're gonna be lost and sad and hurt when we separate ourselves from Him and His Spirit. And so He, He's calling after us saying, "Don't stay there. Come back to me. Be with me again. And even though you've experienced, like, an eclipse," a feeling of, like, the sun was gone, saying, "The sun isn't gone.

It was just a moment of eclipse. And the sun's still there, and I, my love for you has not gone anywhere. I am still your Redeemer who loves you," who has this hesed, covenant love to, to find you, to bring you back. And, I mean, these verses are so beautiful. There's, um... Some of you may have heard the, the, the musical setting of them in the piece by Rob Gardiner, My Kindness Shall Not Depart From Thee.

Mm-hmm. They're so beautiful that you really need music to feel, um, the love that is in these verses, that the, the Lord- Wow ... wants us to know no matter how desolate we feel, He is there, and He will come to, to make things right. Wow, Jennifer. I love so much in verse 7 when it says, "For a small moment have I forsaken thee, but with great mercies I will gather thee," only because, um, Don Perry teaches this.

'Cause I always wondered what is that exactly he talk- You know, like, does a small moment a couple of months, a couple of weeks. And this I thought was kind of fun. How long is a small moment? It says- Yeah ... "And how long does this anger last?" God's anger lasts a moment. And how long is a moment? According to Rabbi Aveen, and some say it's Rabbi- It, it's Aveena

Aveena, that a moment lasts as long as it takes to say the word in Hebrew for a moment, which is raga. That's how long a moment is. So- Mm ... does these Hebrew rabbis say how long is a small moment? As quick, as fast as you can say rega, that's the moment that He'll forsake you. And then that was interesting.

Another thing, according to the Babylonian Talmud, how much time does his anger last? God's anger lasts a moment. Well, how long is a moment? It's 1/5888th of an hour is a, equals a moment, which is 0.06 seconds. I love the math on that. So I have zero... Yeah. He crunched the numbers on that. Yeah. And so next to small moment, I put- Zero

0.06 seconds. That's, that at four, is six, 0.06 seconds He is forsaking you- But he will, with great mercies, he will gather you. So for my, or in my other, in my dad's words, "Doesn't matter." Mm-hmm. Like, it's over. I love... One time I d- said something and I hurt my dad's feelings and I apologized, and he goes, "It's over.

Don't even worry- Yeah ... about it." Yeah. And it was that quick with him, and I think that's how it is. 'Cause I think sometimes we think with our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, like, "They're still mad at me for when I stole that pack of gum- Yeah ... when I was 12." And they're like, "Are you kidding me?" I f- you know, not only have we forgotten it, according to Doctrine and Covenant Section 58, we will forget.

Mm. But for a small moment, I was bugged for s- 0.06, now it's over. Yeah. Get on with your life. Yeah. I love that. We worry about it way more longer than they do. Yeah. I remember one time I knelt down, uh, to say my morning prayers, and I was, like, going... I think I maybe have shared this with you, Tammy, but I was going into it with, like, an attitude of, "Ugh, I have not been doing good at my prayers.

I have been neglectful lately." And I knelt down and I started my prayer with, "I'm so sorry I have been gone and MIA." And it was that, it was like the, "Don't worry about it, it's over" feeling. Yeah. It was like, "I love you." Aw. "I am so happy you're praying right now." And I was like, "Oh, I've never felt like so much, like, rushed over-

of, like, it's good. We're good. Keep moving forward." And, like, all the shame and guilt was gone, and I was like, "I got this. I keep moving forward. I got this." It was just a little rega. Yeah. Little moment, gone. Yeah. Yeah, he said it. He said rega and it was over. Oh, I love that, Shar. That is so cool. Wow. Wow, I love that.

Well, Jennifer, I, I'm so grateful that you wanted to focus on those verses, because I think they absolutely teach us the most imp- powerful true nature of our heavenly parents and Jesus Christ. But for our savior, who is our kinsman, who is our redeemer, this constant everlasting kindness that he has for us, that just seems to be the main theme of Isaiah, if you could pick a theme, is hesed.

Just he loves you. He wants to help you. He has this all-encompassing love. And so it's almost like every chapter you can find that. So thank you, thank you. Absolutely. With this idea that he loves you, I think it's important then to focus on Isaiah 56, because in that section, in that chapter, he's gonna love two people that you would think, or in Old Testament times, the people would think are not worthy of love.

We'll talk about that next.

Segment 5
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So I have a word that I want you to help me understand, and Shar, I'd love to know how you teach this to your kids, especially your little Ruthie. Uh, what does the word stranger mean to both of you, and how did you learn that word? When you're little, that's, like, one of the first things, like, "Don't talk to strangers."

Mm-hmm. Yeah, stranger danger. For when I talk to my kids, you know, especially my littlest, it's like, "Strangers are people you don't know that you want to steer- Yeah ... steer clear from. They're probably dangerous. You can always punch and kick them." Like, that's what we talk about all the time. Like, stranger, I mean, not like if they haven't done anything to you.

Yeah. Don't, like, walk up to a random stranger in the grocery store because they're a stranger. But, like, if they approach you and you- Yeah ... feel uncomfortable- You, you can, you can get away, get away, get away. Yeah. Practice your ninja moves and then go away. Oh, I love that. Absolutely. Stranger danger. My little Kirsten used to say, "A bad guy.

Can I beat up a bad guy?" Yes, you can beat up a bad guy. Uh, whatever that means to you at that time. Yeah. Well, this word stranger, it's very interesting because it's an important word in the Old Testament. I don't know that it's the same as we believe, though. It's not necessarily stranger danger, because they actually had rules for the stranger that were rules to invite the stranger in.

So let's talk about this word stranger and what it has to do with covenant. So Jennifer, will you teach us from Isaiah 56 starting in verse 3? What in the world are we doing here with this word stranger? Sure. So this, this has the sense of someone who's outside. Okay. So the covenant is people are inside.

Those outside are not the covenant people. Here where he says, "Let the son of the stranger that hath joined himself to the Lord." So this is someone who has converted to become part of the covenant people. We know that was possible. People did join. You know, Ruth was a Moabite, and she became part of the covenant people.

But there's always a little tension because, so the way the covenant people looked at these strangers, the outside people- Mm-hmm ... were people who were not the covenant people. And so to, to bring someone in is okay, but it's always a little, w- I don't want to say fraught with tension, but it, it, you know, just as a reminder that they're not the same as you are.

Okay. And so I think the Lord is telling these people in this verse that live as part of covenant Israel, but don't feel like they belong to covenant Israel, even though they're technically part of it, He's giving them comfort, and He's giving them hope. Mm. And He's, in your life right now, you're part of Israel, but you may not feel like you're part of Israel, and that's hard.

And I know there are a lot of people who are in the church who don't feel like they belong, and I think that's part of why these verses are so powerful. So because- People who, that feel marginalized. Yeah. Yeah. Like they're in... I mean, I think a good way to say that was when I was single for so long- Mm-hmm

in a family ward. Yeah. I belonged to the family ward, but I was single. Yeah. You're a little bit in. I was a, yeah, they didn't- Yeah ... really know what to do with me. Even though I was a good standing member, I could take any calling, but what do we do with the single gal? So- Yeah ... I think, but there's a lot of different people and a doc- a lot of different communities within our church that do feel marginalized.

And so we have them, in verse three, we have a stranger, and we also have a eunuch. Is that right? Right. Yeah. We have two groups of people that are marginalized. They want to be a part of the group. They can be, but not really. So tell me- Yeah ... tell us about that in 56. So, and th- they're both, um, people that, again, they're part- Will technically be part of Israel, but they're different.

So the son of the stranger, someone who's come in, but their genealogy doesn't go back to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So everyone always kind of looks at them a little bit like, hmm, are you really part of us? Hmm. And the eunuch is kind of on the other side of the spectrum. So rather than, like, the new person with low status, kings and palaces would often have sort of around the wives, um, people to do, s- support that they wouldn't be afraid are going to get their wives pregnant.

Sure. So a eunuch is castrated and cannot have offspring. And so they're, they're s- they're high, high, high status, but they are disfigured. And literally under the law of Moses, having genital wounds or, um, disfigurement makes someone ritually impure to be able to go to the presence of the Lord, to come to the temple.

So here are two people that Are part of Israel but feel different. Mm-hmm. Feel separated. And the eunuch, of course, isn't going to have children. And so you look at the, the text here in verse three, the person who is a, a convert but with gentile parents says, "The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people."

In other words, like, "I'm here, but I'm not really here." And kind of feeling like the Lord almost is, it's, it's the Lord who feels that way. And so I think what the, Isaiah's trying to do is reverse our feelings. If we feel like we're marginalized, if we feel as though... It's not the Lord feeling that way. It may be other people around us, but the more we focus on how the Lord feels about us, it can free us from some of our fears and anxieties about what our neighbors are thinking.

And the same thing with the eunuch, where he says, "Don't, don't let the eunuch say, 'Behold, I'm a dry tree.'" In other words, "I'll never have offspring. I'll never have..." This is, this is the sense of what prosperity is in the ancient world, to be able to have children. And if you don't have children, you're barren.

You know, like the barren woman- Mm-hmm ... the eunuch is the, is the male equivalent of that. And you think about how all these women felt who didn't have offspring. The eunuch's gonna feel the same way. But the next verse is where it gets reversed. But the Lord says, "Listen to what I have to say about you.

Stop listening to your friends and neighbors. Listen to me. For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my Sabbaths and choose the things that please me and take hold of my covenant." So it doesn't matter what your life circumstances are, doesn't matter what your challenges or your problems, if you are faithful to me, if you live in your covenants, you take hold of my covenant.

That is powerful verb. Choose the things that please me. Keep my Sabbaths. So you make the covenant, you keep the covenant. If you do that, even though your life now, He's not promising them posterity. They're eunuchs. They're not going to have kids. Mm-hmm. But He says, "Even to these people who at this point, under law of Moses, could not come to the temple," He says, "Even unto them."

So these are promises that the Lord is gonna make everything right, and we have to trust Him. "Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls." He's talking about the temple. These people are gonna have a place in the temple. "In mine house and within my walls, a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters.

I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off." So the inheritance that we have by covenant faithfulness, what the Lord has to give to us- is we just have to, and sometimes we just have to have faith and hope and trust in his promises that what we're going to get through our covenant faithfulness is going to be better than what we go, we go, may go through our entire life not having.

That we may n- need to live our entire life without the covenant blessings. But he says, "You hang in there. Be faithful to your covenants." And that, that's verse four is the, is the, the sort of the condition. "Keep my Sabbaths. Choose the things that please me. Take hold of my covenants." You do that, everything you want, the fullness, the abundance, the, the name is a sense of this is who you are.

You, you want children to carry on your name. You're going to have a name, a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters. I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off This is eternal increase. The Lord says you will have everything. You're not gonna get it right now. Oftens we go through life and our life circumstances, I've, like I've been married for 33 years, we've never been able to have children.

So I think about Abraham and Sarah, and they made covenant promises. It took decades and decades for them to be fulfilled. Um, but they knew they'd be fulfilled. I have the same confidence. They're gonna be fulfilled. They won't be fulfilled in this life, but they'll be fulfilled. And so what ... This, these verses speak to me as well.

Like, there's all, all of us have something that's not like other people. Mm-hmm. You know, there's something that we're like, "I'm missing. I'm just messed up. Something's wrong, and it's never gonna be made right." And the Lord's saying, "Hang in there. Trust me. Be faithful. Live with me. Live in the covenant relationship, and in time, I will make so that what you have is better than anything you could have had if you had it your way."

Mm. That our faithfulness to him in our deepest distress turns us into his jewels, and that's how he makes us his, and that's what he's promising here. And so again, he repeats that in verse six, "To the son of the stranger that join themselves to the Lord to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, and to be his servants.

Every one that keepeth Sabbath from polluting and taketh hold of the covenant, even them will I bring to my holy mountain and make them joyful in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted in my altar, for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all people."

This is the vision. The Lord wants everyone to come. Nobody is so broken, nobody is so messed up or, or something, something is that we feel is wrong that's holding us back from being with God. For him, nothing is. He's inviting everyone to come and promising that ... And that's part of what the temple is for now, is inviting people to come, be with him, and know that if we're true and faithful, we can have his blessings, whether it's now, in the future.

Covenant faithfulness is the path to, um, receiving all the Father hath. You know, Jennifer, as you were reading and explaining verse four, I just thank you so much. I, I felt the Spirit so strongly, especially as you testified with your own personal experience. So thank you. Thank you. Mm-hmm. In fact, one of the things I love is when you were talking about how you're counting on these blessings in the next life, and then I just turned the page back to verse eight, where again, this idea With everlasting kindness.

I love so much that the word Hesed means everlasting kindness, because to me that teaches beyond this life. It's not li- it, it's, it's everlasting kindness. It's not just this life kindness. It's not while you're on Earth kindness. It's, it's beyond this lifetime of kindness that he will show for all of our brothers and sisters, which means that this idea of a Go Well, of a kinsman, of a redeemer, it can take place.

He can help us in the next life, in the spirit world. Like, 'cause we're so worried about some of our dear friends and family members who feel marginalized, and I love the beauty of these verses, like everlasting kindness for them, too. It's okay. And, and again, it goes back to the idea we started at the very beginning where seg- segment two, and you said, "He will be there for us."

That you don't need all this stuff. What we need is Jesus Christ and, and he will always follow through for us. Like I love this concept that he will be there for all of us, including the ones we love. And we just have to be the steadfast family. We just have to be the family. It's like, "It doesn't matter.

We still love you no matter what. We will always- Mm-hmm ... love you because Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother and Jesus Christ love you. And so that's what we will do." You wanna... Yeah, like I know sometimes people always like to say, "Well, you're a Hall." You know how sometimes people use their last names?

"You're a Hall, so here's what this means." And I just think, "No, you're, you belong to eternal family, and here's what this means." Mm-hmm. You, you get- Yeah ... everlasting kindness. So what a great, great blessing. So thank you, Jennifer. Wow. Yeah. I love, I love that description so much. I, I really felt the Spirit, too, and your testimony of that.

And I loved in verse seven, even them, like all of you, even if you feel, you know, like you're missing out on some part of life or you're messed up or something, I love it says, "Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted." And it's just like we're all trying our hardest. Yeah. Yeah. Our sacrifices will be accepted, and I love that he ends with, "My house shall be called a house of prayer for all people."

Mm-hmm. Like what are we doing when we pray? I love that. We're trying to connect to God. We're trying to have him hear us, and we're trying to hear him. And he's saying, "This is where I'm gonna hear you, and you're gonna hear me." Even them, all of you out there, you're included in that. That, and you'll, your sacrifices will be accepted.

There's no exceptions in his rule- Yeah ... and in his house. None. Yeah. There are no outcasts. There are no marginalized. Yeah. So- Yeah ... ooh, Shar, that's good. Wow. And that really, I think it describes w- what we're participating in, the Latter-day gathering of Israel. In verse eight, "The Lord God which gathereth the outcasts of Israel and will gather others to him besides that are gathered unto him."

So this is his invitation that Christ wants everybody and, and, and is inviting us to be even more welcoming to as more and more people come to become part of the covenant people, to acce- accept the covenant of baptism and- To join in that, that we help them feel welcome- Mm ... and, um, to know that those promises are, are theirs as well.

Wow. Powerful, Jennifer. Thank you Jennifer and Shar for your comments. That was beautiful. Okay, so then now we have just some final words of persuasion. We're gonna talk about those in the next segment.

Segment 6
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Let's turn to Isaiah 57. These are some final words that will help persuade people to believe in Jesus Christ. And this is a message of hope for anyone who's strayed, which is all of us. Raise your hand if you've strayed. Me, me, me. So Jennifer, take us into Isaiah 57, and you really wanted to focus on verses 15 through 21.

Jennifer, take us into these verses, and why did you choose these? Yeah. These are, um... These kind of caught me by surprise going through it. I've read, because I read the Book of Mormon so much, um, many of the other chapters in this reading block, like I've been, I practically have them memorized. Mm-hmm. Just because y- they come up over and over and over again.

But Isaiah 57 doesn't get quoted. Mm-hmm. It doesn't make it into the Book of Mormon. And so, uh, you know, w- we get it very pass- in passing every four years, right? Yeah. Yep. And so I hadn't spent as much time working with this text, and I was really blown away- Mm ... by the beauty and the m- the vision of th- the Lord's covenant love, his hesed, and how he wants to invite all his children to come so that, that Jesus Christ is there.

He, he is... Well, I mean, I guess I just read it, but it... And, and maybe I should read it and then talk about it a little bit more, but- Yeah ... it's this vision of him, His holiness, but then he, he's bringing us to him. So the invitation to come unto Christ is this invitation to be lifted up, as we, as we saw earlier, to, to rise from the dust and to sit upon thrones, and this to me captures that.

So let's each take one of these verses and go through 15 through 21. I'll go ahead and start. Um, "For thus saith the high and lofty one that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is holy. I dwell in the high and holy place with him also that is of contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones."

"For I will not contend forever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit shall fail before me, and the souls which I have made." "For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart." Can I just read the NIV version of that?

Yeah. Yeah. Please. Yeah, I love the word- You can't use frowardly ... I love the word frowardly, but what the heck In modern English. Yeah. Here we go. Okay, so let's do that. "I was enraged by their sinful greed. I punished them and hid my face in anger, yet they kept on in their willful ways." Much more comprehensive.

Or- Yes, or frowardly ways. Yeah. Yeah. More contemporary language, yeah. Yeah, I like that. Okay, go ahead Jennifer, verse 18. And then the Lord says, "I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners." "I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the Lord; I will heal him."

"But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt. "There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked." Wow. Why did those touch you? Well, for me, I, I love this vision. We start with, with the Lord. We know that the Father and the Son, um, our heavenly parents are in a world of love and light and holiness, and they're inviting us to join them.

And so it starts from that place of the high and lofty one that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is holy. And he's looking down on us and the lives we live, that if you go to the end of the, the last verses, "The wicked are like the troubled sea when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt." I mean, we're just churning, right?

Mm-hmm. That when we're living without God in the world, we're just churning and churning and churning, and we're not settled. We're, we're not at peace, no matter how much stuff we have. We're never content, um, and we're just looking for something we can't find because we're- we don't have God. And so the look- the Lord looks down and sees the condition we're in without him, and he's inviting us to stop living that way.

Mm-hmm. And the way we're gonna stop that is to come to him to be healed. And I think of Christ, where he says, where he's extending his arms of mercy, and he's inviting us to come, and he's inviting us to come, as verse 18 says, "I have seen his ways." So he knows where we've been. He knows the trouble we've seen.

But his intention is to heal us and to lead us and to restore comforts unto us. So no matter how far off we've been, no matter how messed up our lives ha- have been, he doesn't want us to stay there. He knows that peace and happiness is real and it's possible, but there's no other way. Jesus Christ is the way.

We have to come unto him to find healing and to get out of the churn and the life of wickedness. And so I think about John 3:17. We know 16, but 17's really beautiful. It says, "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world." God doesn't need to condemn us in our wickedness. Wickedness alone is

it's miserable. He came to save us from our wickedness. He came to heal us from our wickedness, but we have to use our agency to come to him, to choose, to listen to his invitation. So his, his loving kindness is to invite us, but as agents, we choose to come and to walk with him and to let him lead us, and to let him restore these comforts to us, and to, to not walk away and stay in the churn and the troubled sea of a life without God.

And that to me is ... it just ... it captures the message of what is the plan of salvation, is to invite us back and to invite us home, invite us to be healed in and through Christ Amen. Mm-hmm. What a beautiful discussion. Jennifer, thank you. Okay, let's just take a minute, take a big deep breath, 'cause that was such good...

All of those segments were so good. Um, gather your thoughts and just tell me at what point did you feel like the Spirit... Like, we saw we start the, um, episode with what did the Holy Ghost teach you, now we're gonna end it with that. What did the Holy Ghost teach you as we had this discussion of Isaiah chapters 50 through 57?

Did any words persuade you to believe more fully in Jesus Christ? And we'll each just take a turn. That was... It was so good. Oh, my gosh. Okay. I can start- Oh, good, Sharon ... 'cause my kind of, my thoughts are kind of going off of what Jennifer just barely shared. Um, and then something that stood out to me. But in this, in, um, Isaiah 57:20, I don't know why so often I relate in the scriptures to the wicked people-

versus the people who are feeling peace and joy and, and love. I'm like, "Oh yeah, that's me," when it says- The sea ... "The wicked are like a troubled sea when it cannot rest." And sometimes life feels like a troubled sea that cannot rest, and it's just all over the place. And when you read that, I'm like, yeah, that waters are definitely casting up mire and dirt.

And I just love throughout the whole episode just talking about the peace and the comfort and the love that God has for us. It was such a good reminder for me today, today. But, um, what really stood out to me for how I need to get that more in my life is, um, when you, Jennifer, talked about that quote from President Benson about when you put the Lord first, everything else will fall into place or fall out of our life, and that we need to put the, um, read the scriptures, read the Book of Mormon every day.

And I was like ding, ding, ding, that, like- ... just struck my heart of, yeah, when I am feeling the, the feels of a troubled sea, I just need to get back in the scriptures, you know? Mm-hmm And in the Book of Mormon is where we find him and where we are reminded, um, constantly every single page about how much he loves us and our purpose.

And so, and then the seas will calm down eventually, right? Hopefully. Hopefully. No, they do, right? And he ... I mean, I think that's so, that's so powerful. And I, I think from the same passage just a few verses earlier thinking about the Savior in verse 18 saying, "I have seen his ways." The Lord knows us. He knows us.

He knows the things about us that no one else knows. Mm-hmm. He knows the places we've been where we don't want to tell other people. You know, he knows ... And but I've seen his ways isn't ... He's not saying it in the spirit of condemnation. Mm-hmm. Saying it in the sense of I know where you've been, and so I can help you get back to where you want to be.

I've seen his ways and will heal him. I will lead him also and restore comforts unto him. That the Lord wants us, and we think that's the witness that it keeps coming back to me is, um, he wants us with him. And the covenant is how we live with him, how we live with him in the world. And, and the ... We're, we're I think because we're in mortality, we're always

That's why we have to repent daily, right? Mm-hmm. We have to turn to him daily because the churn is part of mortality, and not just because we're bad but because we're mortal, and we're in a world that is separate from God. And so we have to actively choose to seek him out. Mm-hmm. The Restoration helps us find him.

You know, we find him in the Book of Mormon. We find him in the temples. We find him in our sacrament meetings. We find him in sacred music, and he wants to be found. Mm. But- But we have to choose ... the invitation. Yeah. Yeah. Invitation to come. Mm. Well, Shar, thank you. Thank you for sharing that and for helping me feel the Spirit at the end.

That was beautiful. I loved the segment where we talked about, um, getting your kids ready for school, and that was so fun, where you're like, "You'll be home soon," how, how you encourage them or give them confidence. And, um, that whole discussion about how covenants gives us confidence, I just, I love that because the idea is that He will be there for us.

And I liked it when we said, "We don't need..." In fact, I think Jennifer and Shar collectively said, "We don't need all the stuff. We just need Him." And- Mm-hmm ... that was such a great reminder. And, and how do we find Him? We find Him through covenants. Mm-hmm. And that is where hesed comes in, and this steadfast, everlasting love.

So thank you to both of you for teaching me that in that segment. That was really good. I loved it. Well, and Jen, we're just go ahead and give you a pass because I think you set up this whole segment by saying how much the Spirit touched you when you read it. And I like, like how you said, so much of Isaiah is quoted in the Book of Mormon, but this chapter isn't.

So thank you for taking the time to study that and teach that to us, 'cause that was powerful. So thank you, ladies. We're done. That's the end of our episode. Yay. That was awesome. That was awesome. Thank you. Thank you, Jennifer, for being- Oh ... so prepared and sharing so many amazing nuggets out of here that I needed to hear today.

That was really good. Well, what did the Holy Ghost teach you? Please join our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram to share what you have learned. Comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday.

And go there anyway because it's where we're gonna have links to all the references as well as a transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall.

And today our incredible study group participants were Sharmaine Howell and Dr. Jennifer C. Lane. And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.

Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember, you are God's favorite, and He has a lot of hesed for you.