The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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Segment 1
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A haiku by Tammy Uzelac Hall. When my life is hard, there is solace in some cheese, but not goat cheese. Yuck. How's that? This week you get to lament and complain all you want, but you have to do it in a poem because we are studying the Book of Lamentations, which is a poem and a prayer that captures the suffering and longing that the people experienced before the Lord showed mercy to them.
And interestingly enough, Lamentations does not contain any responses from the Lord. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall.
And if you're new to our study group, welcome, and we also want you to follow the link in our description so it can explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study, just like my longtime listening friend Debbie A. Bastian. Debbie, I loved meeting you. Now, the most awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, sometimes it's one, and I've noticed these last couple weeks we've just had one.
It gives us an opportunity to really dive into the words, and today's episode I had to have just one person because my friend has really just immersed herself in Jeremiah and Lamentations, and I'm so excited to introduce you to Melinda Willwright-Brown. Hi, Mindy. Hi. How are you? I'm good. Okay. For those people who don't remember or know anything about her, let me just say this, 'cause I love to brag on you.
It's my favorite. Aw. She is the author of two very good books. One is called Eve and Adam: Discovering the Beautiful Balance, as well as the most recent book, An Endowment of Love, which is 10 out of 10. Get it for anyone you know who is about to go through the temple. Like, you need to read this before you go.
It is so good. Oh, you're so sweet. Mindy, why did you write that book? Um, you know, I think I saw it as a, as a natural, uh, sequel, if you will, to Eve and Adam. I'd spent so many years studying temple liturgy as I worked on that project, and I felt like there were some maybe different framings we could make of, of our covenant relationship that we practice- Mm-hmm
in the temple and that we practice every day of our lives. And I kind of just wanted to make that connection a little bit more clear about how it can really change every relationship that we have, um, every, every time we walk out of the temple, what it does to us in the rest of our lives. So that's, that's where it came from.
It's very... It's so good. Thank you. And I love that I own it, and I love that I've had my kids have access to it, so thank you. And another cool thing I'm gonna brag on Mindy is that after raising kids, she went back to school to Duke Divinity School. Oh. Mindy, just p- people are like, "What is that?" T- give it a...
Sum it up real quick. Well, my- It's so hard to do My program was called a Masters of Christian Practice, and it was such a wonderful opportunity to learn from so many varied Christian siblings who love the Lord, who love the scriptures, and who love living Jesus's way. Uh, it, it was really an opportunity to learn from each other and to dive in deeper and, uh, just have my eyes opened even broader and more expansively, and it really did that for me.
It was such a blessing. It was really a gift. Very cool. Yeah. She's my smart friend. So- When I, when I asked her, I'm like, "Hey, what books do you wanna do?" I love that she said, "How about Lamentations?" And I thought, "Well, I did not see... That was not on my bingo card." So after reading it now and then seeing some of the things that stood out to you, which we get to talk about today, I thought, "You're the perfect person."
So we're gonna have a good time- Oh, I'm sweet ... with this. You're gonna have fun. Oh, and fun fact about Mindy, she has a candy drawer Oh, I do Yeah Yes. Do you wanna s- well- What's in your candy drawer right now? Yes, but just for not video. Currently I have these new things that Costco's carrying, and I also had some from Sam's.
They're like little cookie bites covered in, like, strawberry flavored confection, white chocolate- Okay ... basically. Talk to me. Oh, they're tasty. They are so tasty. Oh. Yeah. Okay. I'll have to make a trip to Costco or Sam's. Or Sam's. You know, I, I love the Sam's Club. You know why? They have the best snacks. They do.
Better- Their snacks are- Sorry, no shade to Costco- Yeah ... but better than Costco. I know. Well, they're both great. Love them both. Yeah. Love the snacks, so. Okay. Well, if you wanna know more about my guest and see pictures and read her bio you can find that in our show notes, which are at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday.
And we're gonna have links to both of her books, so go there, check it out, get her books. They're wonderful. Now, grab your scriptures and something to mark them with, and we are gonna dig into Jeremiah, but really Lamentations. Okay, Mindy, first things first. What did the Holy Ghost teach you as you were studying this book?
Oh, yes. I really felt to ponder this question of how does hope override despair. Mm-hmm. And also how can we have hope in the midst of despair. Mm. And I think this will kind of be something we talk about the whole time. I mean, this is really a theme through the book. But I read a phrasing of it that way, how does hope override despair, and that just really caused me to stop and think about that.
And, um, particularly in that, in that gorgeous middle section of Lamentations in chapter three where we get to really that crux point where we talk about great is thy faithfulness. I- it's, it's really turning it back to the Lord. And I loved, actually just on Sunday in church we sang one of the new hymns.
Mm-hmm. New to us. Not new- ... to the rest of the world. Great is Thy Faithfulness. And oh, it just brought tears to my eyes because that's actually one we sang at school a lot. That's a good old Methodist hymn, and I even wrote a paper about that hymn. And it comes- Oh, wow ... from chapter three of Lamentations of the third poem.
Give us the verse so we can make sure we mark it. That is, um, 22 and 23. Lamentations chapter three is so profound in this idea of how hope can override grief or be a companion to grief in the midst of despair really. It's, it says, "The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end.
They are new every morning. Great is your faithfulness." Um, I just think that's just a beautiful midpoint of the whole book. So if we're looking at it kind of from a chiastic structure- Mm-hmm ... like that's the core, that's the heart of the- Ooh ... Book of Lamentations. Love that. Why did you write a paper on that line, "Great are thy faith- great is thy faithfulness"?
Oh, we, you know, we just, we had been studying Jeremiah and Lamentations, and we had to pick one little chunk and just really expand on it, and I just loved that portion, especially because I had also done this other project about the song Great is Thy Faithfulness, and it just felt, really, it, it feels like the crux of the gospel of Jesus Christ and mortality, that- Oh
we have the hard things, and we also have the compassion and the faithfulness of the Lord, and when we're faithful in response to that, it particularly works well. Mm. And I think that's really what's at the heart of these books. Melinda, I think that is so beautiful. In fact, let's do this, because the thing that stood out to me was just how sad the book of Lamentations is, and specifically verse 16, and I, you know, you can read it in the King James Version.
I do like it in the different translations because- Oh, and I was reading NRSV. Sorry, I wasn't even- Oh, perfect ... thinking to say that. Nope, that's good, good to know, um, because it is, when you read, and I love that you were in the NRSV because when you read a different translation, it just adds, to me, more depth to the book of Lamentation.
Because in the King James- Yeah ... Version, in Lamentation 1:16, "For these things I weep, mine eye, mine eye runneth down with water, because the comforter that should relieve my soul is far from me: my children are desolate, because the enemy prevailed." But Mindy, will you read your version? Okay. So yeah, the NRSV is, "For these things I weep, for my eyes flow with tears; for a comforter is far from me, one to revive my courage.
My children are desolate, for the enemy has prevailed." Oh, it's, there's so much depth with that different translation. Well, and the NRSV is also written in, in, uh, poetic form in these parts. Perfect. So you can really see it's a poem- Yay ... which helps me a lot. So I love the NRSV, especially in, in the, uh, wisdom literature in the Lamentations.
Oh, how wonderful. Thank you for saying that. So let's do this, because you mentioned it's a poem, and it is, and in the next segment we're gonna talk about how the book of Lamentations is a poem. But we'll leave you with the song Great is Thy Faithfulness to listen to and walk with, and then we'll start in the next segment when it's done.
Segment 2
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Mindy, if you needed to send a text or a letter that was urgent, like so important what language or punctuation would you use? Oh, I am a big fan of bolded- Okay ... caps, exclamation marks, and sometimes I even work in some red ink. Yeah. It's a lot. I'm a lot. Sorry. No, no, no. But that's what I would do. So do you love, uh, do you, on the iPhone, the new texting features where you can do that to specific words.
You can make them- Yes ... jump up off your page. Yes. I'm just learning how to do that. It's amazing. I mean, that is, like, especially when I send important messages to my kids, you better believe I utilize those, like- Yes ... off and on, not, like, where are you? Yes. I love that. Okay. Well, the reason I ask that is because Lamentations chapters 1 through 4 have a very specific urgency because of the way that it is written.
And so you mentioned that there's some poetic wording in here. Tell us, chapters 1 through 4, what kind of poem are all four of these chapters? So these are an acrostic, which means that each verse or chunk of verses starts with the subsequent letter of the alphabet, in this case, the Hebrew alphabet. And it's really, really spectacularly done in these, in these chapters.
1, 2, and 4 are just a simple acrostic. Mm-hmm. But 3 is like a triple acrostic. So it's like saying, this is the super bolded, flashing at you, exciting, uh, iPhone features- ... for texting in verse- I love it ... in chapter 3 because you get it triple time. And it just gives him more time to explain and express those feelings more deeply, use richer images.
And because that's the heart of the book, uh, that points us more towards the Lord- Mm-hmm ... and His love and compassion. It's really beautiful that the emphasis- Yeah ... is there in my opinion. Oh, I think that's a great way you describe that. So everyone looking at your scriptures, just go ahead and you'll notice, so chapter 1 has 22 verses because there are 22 letters in the Hebrew alphabet.
Chapter 2, 22 verses. Then you'll notice that chapter 3 has 66 verses. And so Mindy said it was triple acrostic. So what this means is verse 1, 2, and 3 begin with the Hebrew letter alef. Then verse 4, 5, and 6, we have the letter bet. So that's what she means by triple acrostic. Yeah. And so you go all the way through the alphabet.
So in chunks of threes, they begin with that letter in the acrostic form, so that's why there's 66. Mm-hmm. Then verse 4 is 22 verses, again, the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet, and that's where we stop 'cause chapter 5 is not an acrostic poem, but we'll get to that at the very end. Yeah. So we have this acrostic style of writing, and I think it's so cool that you said the reason why 3 is done in triple acrostic is 'cause it is.
It's the text features. The bold, let's pay attention, let's really absorb what's being said. I love how you just taught us that. So Minnie, here's my question: why do you think Jeremiah even used this literary style? Well- Now, I used, I used haiku at the beginning 'cause that's the only- Yes, it was just beautiful.
Well done. That and only rhyming are my only skill set. But I, actually I could do acrostic if it was my own name. But- Yeah ... this is, this is major to do these many chapters. Yeah. I don't know how he could come up with words to start it. Like, that's crazy to me. Well, the ... And, and I guess we should say the, the Hebrew letter is featured as the first word- Mm-hmm
of each of the verse of that, of that acrostic section. Yes. So that's kind of where the poetic form- Mm-hmm ... uh, that's how m- we might describe it. So it's not rhyming, but it's that first word goes with that letter, begins with that letter. And I think there are lots of reasons they did that. All the different styles of Hebrew poetry help in memorization and in being able to, um, repeat them orally easily to one another.
Just like little sayings, like proverbs that just- Mm-hmm ... roll off the tongue. Like, there's benefit to any type of poetic form for helping, uh, in the transmission of what the message is of that. So it's great for that. But an acrostic is particularly profound because it basically says from A to Z and, like, everything in between.
It's, it's trying to capture the entirety, in this case, of the destruction and the devastation that the people are living through because of the destruction of Jerusalem and the siege that they're now living in, and it's just absolute chaos. It's just an ... It's the worst nightmare imaginable. And the acrostic poem of one through three, one through four, is so helpful in that way because it gives some order to that chaos.
Mm-hmm. And some would say five departs from that just to let you feel the chaos r- really- Yeah ... again. But, but the acrostic nature in one through four is a gift because it gives us some order to analyze or think about what's happening to these poor people. Wow. I mean, when you said it gives order to the chaos, my mind immediately started thinking, like, what gives us order to our chaos in our day?
Like, what would you say is our Lamentations? Even though we have the Book of Lamentations. Mm. Is there anything that gives you structure or order to the chaos of your day? Well, I do s- I do think there's so many parallels that are worth considering with the modern world and what's happening here in Jeremiah and Lamentations.
But for me, the order of my day, I mean, the basic, uh, structure of my day- Mm-hmm ... waking up, having sort of devotional time with the Lord, praying, reading scripture, listening to uplifting words, conference talks, or whatever is meaningful at the time for me. Exercising, moving my body, eating a healthy breakfast.
Some of those things just get my day pointed in the right direction, and it's, it's kind of like whatever come next, comes next, I'm ready for it- Yeah ... um, because I've got my good basis set. And then at the end of the day, it's sort of a similar backward unwinding as it settles down. Order in my day. I'm writing that down The one thing that came to my mind was the temple.
Yes, for sure. And how when you attend there, there's an order of how they do things. Yeah. And that there's no chaos in the temple. That just kind of str- I'd never considered that till this very moment, where there's nothing haphazard. You don't walk in. Everybody knows exactly where you're supposed to go.
That's right. There's people to get you there. There's a f- beautiful flow to it. And I think that adds to the peace also. Yeah. Wow. Absolutely. Thank you for everything. And church, huh. Yeah. Ordering our day. Wow. Thank you. Because listen, I'm not gonna m- maybe I will, but I, I'm not gonna memorize Lamentations.
I can't even m- like, who memorized this? 'Cause I get Proverbs 31, we've talked about that before- Yes ... where the proverb of a virtuous woman, that is acrostic so that a man can sing it to his wife every Sabbath. Yeah. We- that still happens today. Is anyone singing Lamentations? Like, is anyone reciting this? I, I don't think so currently.
Yeah. I mean, it's used, different parts of it are used for different festival times and holy days, I believe. Mm-hmm. But, um, there are little portions. Uh, and there are hints. There's so much intertextuality of we get phrases from all other books of scripture that we hear again, and even Christ draws from it in some of His grief and, and mourning moments.
Mm-hmm. He gathers little hints from this. And so there is this beauty in the Hebrew scriptures of recognizing where the phrases come from and, and knowing, and it almost lends credence to what a person might say if they're using phrases from these beloved book of scripture and, and these scrolls that they love.
And it is, uh, anciently it's so much more oral that I think- Mm ... that that helps it sink in maybe- Wow ... more than we have it now. That's gonna be a little challenge for me. I'm gonna pick a part of Lamentation and memorize it. I think that might be kind of fun. I'm gonna do that. Okay. Well, great is thy- That's my goal
faithfulness. We'll help you do that. Sing, sing the song. There you go. Great is thy faithfulness. Yeah. I'm gonna do it. All right. This is cool. So now we know the structure of the Book of Lamentation. Let's dig into it, and we're gonna begin with the overall theme of the Lamentations of Jeremiah, which is he's just so sad.
We'll do that next.
Segment 3
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Okay, Mindy, why is this book called Lamentations? Get us into this whole idea or concept. What's going on here? Oh, geez. This really ... It's ... This is, this is a heavy, sad time in the Old Testament, right? And I think it's, it's fascinating. Every time I circle back and study this again, I get a little bit of a better sense of the whole organization of the Old Testament.
Okay. Which is not a fluid timeline- No ... in the least, right? It's almost like we keep circling around the destruction of Jerusalem. We, we get close to it. We re- we refer to it. We get after it. We've already studied Ezra and Nehemiah. Well, that's coming after this, right? When Kings and Chronicles, we're hearing about kind of the historical basis of this, and then all these book of the prophets are different angles of it.
So- Yeah ... so this is particularly referring to the main destruction of Jerusalem, which is 586 BC, BCE, so before Christ. But before that, there had been a couple of sort of preliminary waves of destruction. Yeah. So just to give our listeners some frame of reference here, there's one that happens in 607.
That's when Daniel is drawn out, and he then is, is basically carried away captive, and we hear about his story later. We haven't even gotten to Daniel yet. But that's coming. Yeah. But that's, that happens before this, right? Then 597 is another one, and that's when Ezekiel is carried away captive, and then we get his story of those who are the exiles.
But this is the story of the remnant that is left in Jerusalem after the major destruction when the temple's destroyed. I mean, it's just ... It's, like, leveled. It's horrible, right? And this is when it's really the poorest and the marginalized who are left behind, and they are just completely in dire straits, horrible straits.
Now, leading up to this, Jeremiah- As well as really every other prophet that we've read in the Old Testament is saying, "You've got to live your covenant relationship well or, or you will have problems." Like, woe unto you. This is coming. They've all been called to repentance and offered this chance at forgiveness again and again and again, and they're really not taking advantage of it.
They've broken their covenant. They're being very unfaithful to the Lord. They're worshiping idols. They're just kind of, they're doing everything wrong. Mm-hmm. And they're in denial about it. They are really looking at their situation as, "Well, we're special. We have the temple. Look at all the times we've been saved.
God won't let anything bad happen to us." But that's complete denial. I mean, they've got these amazing prophets telling them, "No, actually, that is contingent on your responsibility and faithfulness in return. And, uh, you know, you, you really are getting yourself in a big hole, and you need to start getting yourself out of it quick, or you're gonna regret this.
It's gonna be bad for you." Um, it's also super intriguing that this is precisely the timeframe when Lehi and his family leave Jerusalem. Yes. Yep. So, like, the connections between the Old Testament and the Book of Mormon are just rich in this part of- Yeah ... of the Old Testament. And I think that's really fascinating as well.
Just really makes you realize maybe the tone of voice Lehi's using with his family. Mm-hmm. Why some of his sons are saying, "We're fine. This is..." Exactly. I mean, they're in denial. They're like- Yes ... they're, they're total Jerusalemites, right? Yes, yes. And the younger boys are saying, "Oh, whatever you say, Dad.
Okay, we trust you," right? And, and even Nephi, because he actually says in the, in 1 Nephi that his heart was changed. Like- Exactly ... the idea that even Nephi might have been part of this, like, "We're gonna be okay." I mean- Yeah ... I love how you're pointing that out. Yeah, like he's kind of on the fence, right? He's not sure yet.
And why they thought their dad was crazy. Yes. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, which way do I lean? Yeah. Okay. So it really informs our starting point at the Book of Mormon. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Um, and, and it's just, it's a profound section. And the, the first word of the Book of Lamentations, the Hebrew word is basically how. Um, one scholar about the book says, like, he calls it the scream.
Like, this, this book is just the scream. It's like- Mm ... complete grief and mourning and despair in their suffering, and it describes it, uh, just with the most rich, horrific images really. It's really painful to read. There, there's some really heartbreaking parts in the book that, that are just- Sorry, I'm writing so many notes down In fact, I even went and put next to how, like I made it bold.
'Cause I'm imagining in a text, that's the word that would be like- Yes ... how? How in the world? Yes. Oh, my gosh. I love that, Mindy. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I think there's some interesting, um, th- ways that we might think about murmuring. So we're talking about Lehi and his family- Mm-hmm ... and we hear a lot about murmuring, that, that Laman and Lemuel were sort of your classic murmurers.
Yes. And we look, we tend in our tradition to look down on murmuring a bit, right? Sure. Mm-hmm. But Lamentations, lament is not murmuring. Right. And this book really captures that because these people are saying, "How in the world did we let this happen? Why..." Like, there's this humility and vulnerability that they're being just brutally honest with themselves now- Mm
saying, "We blew it. Oh, we messed up so badly." The murmuring we hear in Laman and Lemuel and in the Book of Mormon when they've left and they don't see the siege, they don't live through the destruction- Right ... and they're, like, complaining because they are in denial, and they're showing their pride and their arrogance in their complaints.
Mm-hmm. And it's like whining and fussing and ra, ra, ra, ra. You know? We know the voice, right? Lament is not that. It's a very different voice, and the humility, uh, is, is just really tangible in it. Oh, I like that you connected lamenting with humility. Yeah, I, and I think- Mm-hmm ... I think that's why faith and hope can live in this space, because humility has paved the way for faith and hope to begin to grow here.
And I think that's a really key part, and that's, to me, that's the beauty of Lamentations. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Is there a specific lament in all of these that just you could share real quick? 'Cause we're gonna get into more of these, but when you talk about this level of humility with lamenting, is there a verse that stands out to you?
I, I already shared one, which was verse 16. But now, based off of what you've taught us, I also think verse 11 'cause I have this written. Or s- I have this highlighted where he says, "Mine eyes do fail with tears, my bowels are troubled, my liver is poured upon the earth for the destruction of the daughter of my people because the- Mm
children and the suckling swoon in the streets of the city." But I think it stood out to me because where it says, "My bowels are troubled," that is like, that's a consistent thing in my home because my kids have so much anxiety. And when they were little, they'd always say, "Oh, my stomach hurts, my stomach hurts."
And I, it took me a while to catch on, and therapy because the therapist was like, "Oh, let me tell you what's happening." And I remember they just ... The, the best thing ever was this therapist said to my child, "If you see a bear, what's the first thing your body does?" And she's like, "It gets really scared." And he goes, "Exactly."
And he goes, "Then how do you react to that?" And she said, "I would run or I would scream." And he goes, "You totally would scream, wouldn't you? You're so scared, you're gonna scream and you're gonna run. Well, what anxiety does is it doesn't let you do that. It makes you freeze, and you, because you don't scream, you almost are swallowing the fear and it's getting in your belly and it's gotta go somewhere.
And so you have to learn either talk it out or puke it out, and you are puking it out." And so I, I loved learning that at a young age as a mom 'cause I had a lot ... All of my kids puked when they got nervous. And so where he's like, "My eyes do fail with tears, my bowels are troubled." Yeah. Like, I've so ... To me, that translates, "I am so anxious.
I have so much anxiety about what's going on right now." Like, that is, that is- Yeah ... such lamenting. Not mo- not murmuring. Yeah, and that is so beautiful. I ... What, what your therapist taught you there, I think is, is really so true, and it's been known for, through the ages. Yeah. Because that's really ... This lament is like, um, it's considered a national lament.
Meaning it's like a communal. Like, this is the lament of all the people, and it's something they could pray or recite or, or, or voice together- Yes ... in unison. And it's like the writer, perhaps Jeremiah, is saying, "Let me help you with the words- And let's speak it- Oof, I love that ... together. Right? Yes. Because if you can put words to it, it can shrink that monster a little bit- Yeah
if you can speak it. It does. And you get it out, right? Yes. You- And you then you have the words to share it with each other. Ah. And the comfort can come when we speak it out. We can then have the space to hear the comforting- Yeah ... words that others could give us. You're 100% right. That is truth what you just spoke.
When you speak it out, you can receive comfort. Because we also live in a society that, and even a culture, that tells you not to complain- Yeah ... not to murmur, all of this. But maybe you're just lamenting. Well, and- 'Cause we're getting permission by this book. Go ahead and lament. That's right. Write it in your journal or say it to a friend.
Whatever you need to do, just get it out. Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. And so much- Amen ... that's really what the invitation to repent daily is. Yes. It's to say the words, and do it humbly- Ah ... and vulnerably. Not with pride and arrogance. That's, that would be- Mm-hmm ... the murmuring side of things. But humbly and vulnerably saying, "Oh, I messed up, and I didn't like how I felt after I did that.
And I wish I hadn't said this thing," or, "I'm sorry I thought that, 'cause that influenced my next actions." Or, you know, whatever. Mm-hmm. All the ways that we might, um, reassess things- Ah ... at the end of our day and in our hopes to do better the next day. Giving it those words- And sharing it with the Lord. You know, lament, i- the Lord is the recipient of it.
He's the- Mm-hmm ... listener in lament, and that alone gives evidence to the faith-based nature of it. Because- Yes ... you're not just speaking it to the wind. You're not complaining it to your neighbor. You're telling the Lord, "This hurts." Mm-hmm. And, like, "I know you can hear me, and I know you're there." Yeah. "And I actually really need your help now.
Like, please, please, please." Oh. You're begging. You're begging for His help. I love how you just summed that up. So we're not complaining. We're lamenting to the Lord. He's asking us to do that. Yeah. Mindy, that is so good. Thank you. Thank you. I love you, Tammy. Oh, that's good. You're awesome. No, you're so smart, Mindy.
I love the way you take things and process through them. I love the way your brain thinks, so that, that was good. Mm-hmm. Okay, do you have a ... If you don't have a verse, you don't have to share one. Oh, oh, the verse. Yes. Okay. So one of the verses I was gonna share, and, and you kind of got at this, Lamentations 1 is really speaking, like, through kind of the eyes of a woman.
Mm-hmm. The woman of Jerusalem, the woman of the city, who's, who's been destroyed. And when you think of, like I said before, the people who've l- been left behind are the widows, the orphans, uh, the, the poor who just haven't ... They had no help. They were ... They couldn't keep up. I mean, the, the ones who couldn't run fast enough to get away, or who couldn't cooperate well enough to be taken into exile, they're just left behind as, as just to die, basically, right?
And so this one part in, um, chapter 1, verse 14, I, I think is, is really painful. Uh, it says, "My trans..." Oh, and this is the NRSV I'm reading. "My transgressions were bound into a yoke. By his hand they were fastened together. They weigh on my neck, sapping my strength. The Lord handed me over to those whom I cannot withstand."
And that's a profound one, because it uses that imagery of the yoke, and in covenant relationship talk, we often think about yoking ourselves to Christ. Yeah. And here's this, this poor, struggling woman realizing, "I'm now yoked to a horrible, horrible- master and, um- Mm ... and I'm, I'm being treated horrifically.
Like, this isn't, this isn't viable. I can't live this way. I can't withstand this. Yeah. And she realizes that in a sense, the Lord has handed her over to the consequences of, of the community's actions. You know, this, this isn't blaming this woman per se, she's just the image in the poem, uh, that he's expressing the words through.
But, but she's recognizing while the Lord may not be doing this to me exactly- Mm-hmm ... He's allowed Babylon to do this. Wow. And that's the cost of our choices, and it hurts horribly. Yeah. And going back to what you taught us, that's why we need to repent. Exactly. That verbal, like, I'm sorry. And the second she does that, the second any of us just say, "I'm sorry," the yoke is removed.
That's what I love. It's- Yeah. But yeah, here she is lamenting, and such a message to all of us. Like, don't swallow your yuck. Like- Yeah ... scream, call it out, lament it, whatever you need to do, 'cause there's... I like how you said, that's where, that's when we receive comfort is when we're finally- Yeah ... able to just let it go, verbalize it, so.
Yeah. Yeah. What a great lesson from Lamentations. And I think that part, she's already turning to the Lord. Mm-hmm. In the imagery that's chosen there, that yoke, it's ... She's recognizing the contrast with what- Yes ... she wishes she had chosen versus what she now has to deal with, and that in itself is expressing faithfulness because she's comparing the two and, and realizing- She sees it
truthfully, "I chose the wrong one here." So good. Wow. I'm putting your name next to that verse so I never forget this. Oh, that's sweet. I love it when I can connect people so. Well, Mindy, thank you for that discussion. So we just barely got our toes wet with Lamentations, and so in the next segment, we're gonna talk about the tension of this book, as if we haven't already felt it, because there's more.
We'll do that next
Segment 4
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I came across this scripture a couple of days ago, and I just think it's so fitting for what we're gonna talk about right now. This is by Peter. It's found in 1 Peter 4:12, and this is the NIV version. And I like it so much because Peter was a man who understood trials and tribulations. He's already spent time in jail when he's writing this letter to the people in what's, a- what they believe is Asia Minor.
And this is the scripture. He says, "Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you as though something strange were happening to you." Like, that made me laugh out loud, thinking Peter's like, "Hey, don't be shocked. Listen, it's life. Tough times are gonna come." And so it made me think of this Book of Lamentations, like, don't be surprised when all of a sudden everything's really hard for you.
You did this. Like, life is hard. So let's go into Lamentation, and we're gonna talk about this tension and this opposition that we have in here. Like, don't be surprised that life is hard, but there's hope. There's ... That's something I love that you've talked about this. There is hope over despair. So talk to us about this tension in the Book of Lamentations.
Well, I think the tension that it kind of dances back and forth between is, uh, grief and compassion, or we could say mourning and comfort. Mm-hmm. Right? Um, we know from the Book of Mormon, of course, 2 Nephi Chapter 2 is one of the great just truth bombs. There's opposition in all things, right? That's mortality in a nutshell.
Yeah. We're always gonna get real life and real love, that they go together, and in the pressure between the two, it kind of gives us things to push against. If we're drifting more one way, we're gonna get pulled back the other way, and it's sort of almost like you're walking a tightrope and you're holding the bar and, and it's in the movement of, of the rod that you're holding that helps you balance that.
Um, so tension is really, really helpful actually. Mm-hmm. And it's something that, that we just all experience all the time. Peter was absolutely right. Right? I mean, this is timeless. Yeah. Completely timeless. Um, and I think we hear that so beautifully here, and like I said, that was what I've been really thinking about, is how does hope live in despair?
And, you know, I, I think we see it in, in the hard things that happen in our lives. It ha- it's all that... It's there, gratefully, and that's the beauty of, of living and loving the gospel of Jesus Christ, is that you can hold both. Yeah. So talk to me about the hopeful word that we find in Lamentations, and it's a very important word to us, especially to our past prophet, President Nelson.
He loved to teach about it. Mm-hmm. You read it when you shared with us in Lamentation 3:22, because it says, "It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed." Highlight the word mercies right there. Uh, yes. Because it's not mercies in Hebrew. In fact, Melinda, teach us, what is that word in Hebrew? Uh, I think you're referring to hesed.
Yes. Which is just, we just don't have a, an accurate, um, good enough translation for it. It's such a big word. Mm-hmm. It's covenant love, and we often read of it as, uh, steadfast love, um, uh, everlasting love. It's mercy. It's, it's that perfect godly ability to love us and always be there to, to keep giving and keep, uh, comforting, keep having compassion for us even while letting us learn the hard way- Mm-hmm
which these people are struggling through really real in Lamentations. But we all have that, but it's his, his relentless love. That's maybe one- Yeah ... of the really beautiful ways we've heard it recently from Elder Kieran, and I think we've all really clung to that because it's such a beautiful image that he never stops working to, um, to save us and heal us.
Mm-hmm. And it's, to me, it's really a healing type- Yeah ... of love, and I love that. I do, too. In fact, let's take a couple minutes to just kind of talk about this word hesed. Um, there's some great scripture references I'm gonna give, and next to verse 22, let's just put Isaiah 54:10, and we'll go there and read this as...
and what it has to say about this hesed. Such a good word, and I love... Isn't it so fun when we hear Hebrew words in conference, Mindy? Yes, it is so fun. Like, we just, we both perk up. We're like, "Yes." Yes. It's so awesome. Hey, when you get there, will you read Isaiah 54:10? Okay. Oh, yeah. Oh, this is such a good one.
"For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you. And my covenant of peace shall not be removed," says the Lord who has compassion on you. Thank you. Beautiful. So highlight steadfast love in your scriptures, and that is the Hebrew word hesed. And I just think it's so powerful when you consider that the phrase
And you'll see this a lot in scripture, is His steadfast love, that's the word we really wanna focus on. His steadfast love endureth forever. You're gonna read that in so many scriptures in the Old Testament. In fact, it's repeated 42 times in the Bible. His steadfast love, or His hesed, endureth forever.
Yeah. And so when you take that idea or concept and you go back into chapter three verse 22, specifically this triple acrostic, 22, 23, and 24- Mm-hmm ... it is so powerful with what His love can do for us. In fact, let's read these three verses. Will you read those for us, Mindy? Yeah. "The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases.
His mercies never come to an end. They are new every morning. Great is your faithfulness. 'The Lord is my portion,' says my soul, 'therefore I will hope in Him.'" Perfect. And there are some really great things. I had the opportunity to discuss this word hesed with, um, Dr. Donald W. Parry on the little video series that we do on YouTube.
Uh-huh. We spent a whole episode just talking about hesed, 'cause it's so important to him. 'Cause he's ... As you said, there are so many different ways you can translate this, but for him the most important way is steadfast love. Mm. And that in his mind the idea that it endures forever is so important for us as members of the church to recognize and know.
And I love how he describes that there's four descriptions of God's steadfast love. He says it's abundant, it's great in extent, it's everlasting, and it's good. And we just spent time talking about those four things. And so going back to this idea that hope can override despair, and having hope in God's steadfast love can absolutely override any despair we're experiencing.
And so is ... And, and as I think about this in my own life and in yours, are there examples? Like, do you have a story about a time where you had to lean into God's steadfast love to get through a disparaging time? Yeah. Yeah, about a year, a year and a half ago, I did have a time of some real despair. Just a really hard, hard challenge I was going through with some interpersonal relationships and some things that went badly.
And just really, really heartbreaking. I mean, I was feeling just the gamut of emotions that come with grief, right? Yeah. And it, it was a tough- Period. It took time. Like, it just, it was gonna take time for me to work through and to heal from. But one of the beautiful things in reflecting back on that time now that I'm, I feel like I'm on the other side of it, is just recalling and remembering how many times I felt like I was just getting little glimmers, whispers if you will, or, or just impressions of the, the Lord saying, "Eyes on me.
Just hold my hand. I got you, and we can do this together. It's gonna hurt. It's gonna be hard. But I've got you, and I'm not gonna let go, and we're gonna get through." Mm. And, you know, I knew, I mean, I'm 56. I have a lot of experiences and evidence- ... that, that He can make all things eventually work together for our good somehow, right?
Mm-hmm. There are always silver linings. Um, maybe we can't see them for a long time, but, but I did have this hope based on my personal experiences that I really will be okay, but I'm just gonna give myself this time to just sort of winter a little bit. Oh, I like that. It felt a little bit like I just needed a little hibernation period to just let things settle and calm, get the feelings out, um, let them work their course through me, and wrestle with the humility and vulnerability that it all revealed, and just keep my eyes on Jesus, is really the hope that kinda got me through the pain of that.
Um, and in hindsight, I can see that even though I certainly don't ever wanna feel that way again- Yeah ... there were blessings that came from it, because I, I, my faith was really strengthened that He really was there for me, and we got through it, and it's okay. Mm-hmm. Life goes on. You know, as you began your story, in my mind I'm like, "Well, now I'm gonna ask her a follow-up question, like what's her advice for anybody in a despair?"
And now I don't have to because you gave some of the best advice, which I wrote down. I loved how you said just winter a little bit. Just hibernate, take some ti- that, that idea is so powerful to me because it's gonna look different for everyone, but sometimes in my mind I think, "Well, you just gotta get going.
Get up, just g- let's go walking and then you'll feel better if you exercise, and then you won't be sad." No. And I think I love how you said, no, sometimes you can just hibernate and withdraw a little bit. I love that. Winter a little bit and, and work it out. I love how you added the word wrestle in there because it is a, it was a wrestle for you, I'm sure.
For sure. And I've had moments where I have wrestled, absolutely, but I also, when I'm wrestling, in my mind I'm like, "But I shouldn't be wrestling. I should be doing something else," and, and no, it's okay. Like, you can... When you're wrestling, it requires your all if you're gonna be a good wrestler. Yeah. If you wanna win the, the match that you're in right now, you better, and you're gonna wrestle.
I just think of all the people who've wrestled in scriptures. None of them were doing something else at the same time. Right. They were just, Jacob was just wrestling. Enos was just wrestling. And so you have to be willing to put your all in to get out on the other side and to prevail, to beat your opponent, and it requires so much physical effort.
So I love how you said the word wrestle, but then you said, "And keep your eyes on Jesus." And then I'm thinking of me in the wrestling match, and he's my coach. And he's the one making me, calling me and saying, "Do this to your opponent. Try this move." And if you keep your eyes on Jesus, that winter period of your life, you, you will win.
Yeah. Isn't that great? And you wrestle in the winter. Oh my gosh, there's so many things I'm thinking of. Yeah. No, that's beautiful. It's a winter sport. You might ... You need to write a wrestling poem. Like, that's poet- There you go ... that's poetic imagery to capture- It is ... this idea. That's so good. That was so Jeremiah-ish.
I, I love it. Oh, thank you. I'm gonna remember that because I really like that idea that you said. Winter a little bit, go ahead and hibernate, wrestle, and keep your eyes on Jesus. That's the advice that you have. Yeah. It's not better, it doesn't get better than that. So when you are in that moment of despair, everybody, and go ahead and lament, by the way.
Let's add lament to that. For sure. Ugh, get it out. Talk to people. Anybody. You know, I think it's true because I, and I'm, I've, I have a hunch you might be similar to me in this regard. When, when the tears begin to flow- Mm-hmm ... it is sometimes very hard to repair the dam and stop the tears flowing. Uh-huh.
Right? Yes. It's like, it's like every day you're gonna cry about it, and eventually you're gonna realize after a month of nonstop crying, I only cried for four hours today- ... instead of eight. Look at me. Look at the progress I'm making. Yeah. Right? And- Good job me ... like you'd have to get it out in that way.
And I also think you almost have to practice speaking it. Mm-hmm. And, um, in my experience, and there have been others similar, but, like, my husband is so good at just- being that sounding board for me just to speak it again and again. Mm-hmm. And like in the depths of my sorrow and my grief, for him to just be willing to let me go through it again and say again why it hurts and why it didn't feel fair and why that, uh, felt wr- I felt wronged or betrayed or any of the things.
And every time I could speak it, I got a little better at it, and it hurt a little less. And really, that's what the comforting was, right? And, and I think to me, it's really beautiful that Alma's summation from, in, in the Book of Mormon, kind of his description of what covenant living- Mm-hmm ... among mortals looks like is mourning and comforting.
Yes. And like you said, it's, it's sort of like this cycle that we need to speak the grief so others can hear it, and then comfort back. And it just begins this spiral that helps lift us out of it, and it's really this two part. And it takes a communication partner. Love it. The Lord, of course, is the perfect communication partner for the mourning and comfort.
Mm-hmm. But we do it to each other as well. We practice on one another. And I love just how that comes together. Every time that we can weave the Book of Mormon and the Old Testament together, the two sticks- Yeah ... woven and tied together, it just brings my heart joy. And I think this is a really great opportunity to put a spotlight on that.
Oh my gosh. I've never once considered that in order to keep our baptismal covenants to mourn and comfort, we have to be willing to verbalize that we need mourning and comforting. We have to- I think so ... verbalize our hard times we're going through so people can keep their covenants. Mindy, that's brilliant.
Oh my gosh, how else could we keep those covenants if people aren't willing to be vulnerable? Yeah. I think that- Wow. Mm-hmm ... yeah, that's, I'm not the genius- Well said ... behind that. That's, that's prophetic wisdom right there. Oh, that's so good. So good. Okay. Wow, what a great discussion. Okay, so here's what we'll do.
We're gonna s- finish here and then in the next segment we are gonna get into what Mindy said was the crux, the in bold, the, the important chapter in the Book of Lamentations, chapter three.
Segment 5
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Mindy, I love so much that you said in the last segment anytime we can connect the two sticks is so powerful. The stick of Judah, the stick of Joseph, or this, the Old- the Bible, the Old Testament with the Book of Mormon. And so let's do that. Let's connect the sticks right now in this segment. So take us
We're gonna be in Lamentation chapter three. Mindy, connect some verses of scripture for us. What can we cross-reference in here? First of all, let's get 3 Nephi open. Okay. Because let's do some comparing and contrasting in, uh, Lamentations 3 and 3 Nephi. So if we look at Lamentations 3, verses one and two That reads, uh, "I am one who has seen affliction under the rod of God's wrath.
He has driven and brought me into darkness without any light. Against me alone he turns his hand again and again all day long." Okay, I think where it says, "He's brought me into darkness without any light,"- Mm-hmm ... that's when I first really started to just be drawn into 3 Nephi because you think about that vapor of darkness- Right
that it describes, and it makes you realize these are two very similar stories- Mm ... we have going on here. And I'm talking about 3 Nephi chapters 8 and 9 especially, okay? So this is, this is the destruction, and we can hear the people crying out. Um, 3 Nephi 9:2 says, "It is because of their iniquity and abominations that they are fallen."
Okay? God. So we realize there really is a connection here, even though a lot of times- Yeah ... we think, well, the destruction in 3 Nephi has to do with Christ's crucifixion, and it's three days of darkness, and, you know, that you could split hairs on primary cause, secondary cause type of stuff right there.
Right. But again and again, we hear, like, look at 3 Nephi, um, 8:24. "O that we had repented before this great and terrible day." Yes. 3 Nephi 8:25. "O that we had repented before this great and terrible day and had not killed and stoned the prophets and cast them out. Then would our mothers and our fair daughters and our children have been spared."
And then it goes on, "And thus were the howlings of the people great and terrible." I mean, this is- Right ... lament we hear- Mm-hmm ... in chapter 8 of 3 Nephi, for sure. And, and the comparison is really pretty tight. Um, we know in Lamentations, Jeremiah has already teed this up that the Lord will use Babylon as the arm of his judgment in this because they were not being faithful, and they were worshiping idols.
They were doing precisely the things that was just injustice everywhere, right? Mm-hmm. And so he allows this to happen. And in 3 Nephi, we actually get a little bit more specific language that- Is actually the sound of the Lord saying this. So look at 3 Nephi, uh, 9, skipping along from 2 through 12. To this is now, um, the Lord saying, "Woe, woe, woe unto this people, woe unto the inhabitants of the whole earth except they shall repent.
For the devil laughet- laugheth and his angels rejoice because of the slain of the fair sons and daughters of my people, and it is because of their iniquities and abominations that they are fallen." I mean, that is just, that's Lamentation type of language, right? It's totally la- oh my gosh, I love this.
Right? And then he says in verse three, "I burned with fire and the inhabitants thereof." And verse four, "I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned." Verse five, "I covered with earth and the inhabitants thereof to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face."
Right? And then jump to 12, "And many great destructions have I caused to come upon this land and upon this people because of their wickedness and their abominations." Now, I would just, I would s- uh, offer as a possibility that if you didn't know what book I'm reading out of there, one might think, "Oh, that's Old Testament."
Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Uh, fire and brimstone language. It's actually even, it's even more intense, Book of Mormon. The Lord says really clearly, "You have to be responsible and be obedient, and you have to join in. Otherwise, the really, the only way for my hesed to work is to humble you to get you through to the salvation part.
But if you don't choose wisely, I'm gonna have to be a, the tough, tough love parent- Mm-hmm ... that lets you feel the consequences of those choices so that we can get you back on the track of faithfulness and righteousness." And, and I think that's what we're hearing here. And just like we get the pivot in Lamentations 3 in 22 through 24 that we've read several times, that, that great is thy faithfulness chunk there, in, uh, 3 Nephi 9, it's really in verses 13 through 22 that we start to hear Christ expressing his mercy and compassion and long-suffering.
And the pivot is verse 13, where he says, "Will ye not now return unto me and repent of your sins and be converted?" And here is, like, the million-dollar phrase, "That I may heal you." And to hear Christ's own voice offering actual healing, that I may heal you, oh, that just gives me chills. Wow. Right? It's goosebumps because- Yeah
it's so beautiful. And in Lamentations, we don't hear His voice super crystal clear. Mm-hmm. But in 3 Nephi 9, we do And it's, it's beautiful. It's so good. Mindy, I love this connection that you have made. Oh, good. This is profound. Well, because then in verse 14, ye- uh, 3 Nephi 9, "Verily I say unto you, if you will come unto me you shall have eternal life.
Behold, mine arm of mercy," you could even say hesed- Yeah ... "is extended towards you." And then you go back into thir- into Lamentation III, "Is it the Lord's hesed that we are not consumed because he, compassions fail..." There it is. "There are very few in the morning. Great is His faithfulness." Then you keep reading, "And whoever, him will I receive.
Blessed are those who come unto him. I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God." I mean, there he is. "Great is His faithfulness. The Lord is my portion." Oh my gosh. Mindy, this is so cool. Right? They just, they, they just do this completely. Absolutely. "The Lord is good to them that wait w- for Him." Mm-hmm. "I came unto my own.
My own received me not." Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah, and this whole, the image of the outstretched arm- Mm-hmm ... or holding back his hand. Yeah. Like that again and again in Jeremiah and Isaiah and Ezekiel, all the prophets as they're working through the imminent destruction of Jerusalem, post-destruction, the exile, it's all this talk of His arms are held out still.
Yeah. He is reaching for us, trying to help us. It looks like He's pulled his arm back, but this is for a short time. Mm-hmm. This is that tension that we're going to have to have of the really hard things and the really real love that can make it work, and we can get through it. Well, now it, when, when we go back to what you talked to us about how Lamentations is a national lamenting, and it's giving us permission to lament.
Yes. And it's teaching us the power and benefit that comes from lamenting. Not murmuring, but lamenting, and there's a humility to it. And now you realize 3 Nephi 8 and 9 is the Lord lamenting. Those are his lamentations. Like, I've always read it as just like, "Oh, you," shake, wagging his finger, but it's not.
Mm-mm. Now when you read it with that lens, he is lamenting, like, "Oh, if you had just repented. If you had just followed the prophets and not killed them." And yeah, He, that, He is la- He is lamenting in 3 Nephi. Yes, but he's also comforting. Yeah. He's also offering the comfort. I mean, it's that, it's the cycle.
Mm-hmm. It's the speak the hurt and offer the healing. And it just keeps going. Speak the hurt, offer the healing. And you can just see the spiral start. It's mourning with those that mourn and comforting those who stand in need of comfort. Wow. Are we, are we really offering relief to the society- Yeah, yeah
if we're not speaking our hurt and offering the healing? Right. And it has to be done in community. Mm-hmm. This, this is not a solo endeavor. No. You cannot, you can't go through this type of suffering all by yourself with no conversation partner because it needs to be done with one another. That's gathering Zion when we can do it together.
Yes. Well, then you think of the Savior on the cross. He didn't endure it quietly. No. He lamented. He really did. He did. He, He re- oh, wow. And even in his lament, he's offering comfort. Right. Right? He's doing exactly the thing. Then he says- He's, he's the perfect model ... "For John, take care of my mom," like... Of speaking his hurt and then offering comfort.
Oh, that's good. That is good, Mindy. Wow. It's beautiful truth, right? You could... You should write a book called Let Us Lament- ... and teach this. Oh, that'd be heavy. That's really good. I love that connection. I've never seen that, not one time. So thank you for doing that. Well, I'm glad we, we got to some good things.
I- Yeah ... I had a great discussion- Yeah ... as always. Oh, wow. Thank you. That was so powerful. I cannot wait now. I'm gonna go back through and read 3 Nephi 8 through 9 and try to find as many connections, 'cause now I'm going back into Lamentation 3, and I'm seeing all the words I have highlighted that are the words like in 3 Nephi 8:9, like gall and travail, dark places, hedged and closed my ways.
Yes. Desolate. Broken my teeth. Like... Right? Yes. There's so many connections. It's really similar. Forget about it. They're very similar. Mindy, you're so smart. Well, it's, it, it's- Wow ... almost uncomfortable in how it really makes you consider just the state of our world, and where are we, where are we in denial?
Where do we need some more vulnerability and humility? You know, where as a, as a community are we maybe leaning one way more than the other- Mm-hmm ... and we need to align a little bit better here? I mean, it's... I don't know. It's given, it's given me a lot to think. Yeah. Big, big thoughts about this week. Wow.
That, you know, that's why we have the scriptures. It's- Mm-hmm ... to keep us focused on what matters and focused on the Lord and, and just keep turning back, every day turning back and, and, and biting his healing. Wow. Okay. So we've just finished talking about Lamentations 1 through 4, which were poems. But 5 breaks the mold.
5 is not a poem, and we did speak briefly about what it was. And so in the next segment, we're gonna dive into this prayer from Jeremiah. We'll do that next.
Segment 6
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G- turn to Lamentation chapter 5. This is not an acrostic poem, but you could argue that it is a poem because Lamentation chapter 5 is a prayer. So Mindy, just curious, 'cause you think this way, you're so smart, how could a prayer be like a poem? You know, I think that they're hugely similar. When you think about how our very deepest feelings, sometimes there just aren't words- Mm-hmm
to express them. And I think the beauty of poems is they use images, even just like baby facets of images- Mm-hmm ... that help you make connections in other ways that maybe you hadn't realized in order to express feelings. I like that. I, I just think so often my most heartfelt prayers, the really big, heavy, deep ones, sometimes aren't always verbal.
Mm-hmm. And, and it's- Yeah ... um, almost a sitting in it with the Lord and trying to just get at, where's my feeling here? How can I pour it out? And sometimes it's more active, it's more emotive, uh, it feels more physical to me, and to me, that's really where poems shine is in their ability to use imagery that way.
So, so I do see them as just right together, right? I mean, it's, it's- Mm-hmm ... in, in v- in chapter 5 verse 17 where it says, "Because this, because of this, our hearts are sick. Because of these things, our eyes have grown dim." Wow. Right? That's just- Yeah. That's- Oh, that is poetry right there. Right? Wow. Okay, so let's get into this.
Let's talk about this prayer in chapter 5, and we're gonna just ... One of the things first that I'm gonna do is break down the different parts of this prayer. You can put this in your scriptures. I have right here verses one through three is a plea for remembrance, and you can put these, we'll have this in our show notes if you wanna go back and, and see this.
But verses one through three is a plea for remembrance. Then verses four through 10 talks about the national hardships. Verses 11 through 16 is the social humiliation and the loss of joy. In fact, in 15 it says, "The joy of our heart is ceased." Yeah. Then in verses 17 through 18 we have the land in ruins, and then 19 through 22 is an appeal to God's reign and mercy.
That's sort of this breakdown of the prayer. Now, I asked Melinda to come prepared to just sort of share what are some verses from this prayer that stood out to you, and you beautifully did that with verse 17. Thank you so much. What else from this prayer stands out? Oh, um, well there's painful imagery in, in, uh, verse 11.
"Our women are raped in Zion, virgins in the towns of Judah. Princes are hung up by their hands." Yeah. "No respect is shown to elders. Young men are compelled to grind, and boys stagger under loads of wim- of wood." Um, I mean, it just really covers ... Y- you can just see every segment of the population is- Mm-hmm
is just suffering horrific abuse and pain. Um, and then verse 15, like you said, "The joy of our hearts has ceased. Our dancing has been turned to mourning. The crown has fallen from our head. Woe to us, for we have sinned." Mm-hmm. And there's that humility and vulnerability again. They're being just really real and saying, "Oh, but how did we- Yeah
let it come to this? Why didn't we listen? Why didn't we, why didn't we turn sooner?" So just great pain. It's, it really hurts. Yeah. I, I think it's striking that this starts out with the word remember. Yes. And we talk a lot about that word, but especially when you consider that these chapters, um, chapter one, chapter two, and chapter four begin with the word how, which you pointed out.
Yeah. This how, and now we have this prayer, remember, O Lord. Like, if there's one thing- Yeah ... that we can ask of you, please remember what has come upon us. And then- Yeah ... we get that description of things. Uh, what's unique about this prayer, Melinda, in the way that it ends? Well, the ending is amazing because it, it turns it back to the Lord, especially in 19 through 21.
So it says, "But you, O Lord, reign forever. Your throne endures to all generations." So there's 19. That's, that's a hope verse. Mm-hmm. Then right away, "Why have you forgotten us completely? Why have you forsaken us these many days?" Oh, we're jump- lean back this way to mourning, right? "Restore us to yourself, O Lord, that we may be restored.
Renew our days as of old." Jump back over to faith. There's hope, yeah. I mean, they're just wobbling on the tightrope, completely wobbling, right? Mm-hmm. And the final is this open-ended, "Unless you have utterly rejected us and are angry with us beyond measure." And s- so like, ah, the dagger is there right at the end.
Yeah. Which is hard. And I think different, different people read Lamentations differently. Some see it as a, as a, um, a growing escalation to five that really leaves us hanging. I think you and I prefer to see it as a more chiastic structure, that it's the heart of it in three that is what we're really drawn to there.
Um, but, but you can make both arguments, and depending on any given day of our lives, we might lean toward the first interpretation or the second. Mm-hmm. Right? But it invites you just to keep pondering this. It doesn't- Yeah ... give us the, it doesn't wrap it up and tie it in a bow. Yeah, there's no amen at the end- No
of this prayer. So I, I agree with you. This, this idea like now you go, you carry on. You listening today, lament, follow the structure. Lament all the things, and end with a prayer. And I, I love that. To me it seems like an open invitation. Like carry on now. Yeah. 'Cause the lamenting and the praying, it's not done.
And it wasn't done for the people, and it certainly isn't done for us. Yeah. And that that's, that's relatively normal. Yes. In the mortal experience we're on the tightrope, and maybe every verse of our life we go faith, fear, faith, fear. Yes. And we're just wobbling back and forth, and back and forth. Hope, despair.
Hope, despair. Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And so it's somewhat comforting to know that we're not, we're not crazy. We're not the only ones experiencing this. It's timeless, and there's always an answer. We can always lean back towards God, turn back and let Him heal us. Mm-hmm. And this reminded me of, I went and listened to the prayer, talk about being in a time of faith and fear and hope and despair, was when President Nelson in 2020 encouraged us to do this.
He gave a prayer of gratitude, hope and healing for the world. Yeah. And I've included the link in here so you can go and listen to his prayer. And the thing I love about it is that it's so short. He speaks for the first part, and I think the prayer is less than two minutes or maybe less than three minutes long.
And it's just this beautiful, succinct prayer that he offers on behalf of the world, and I love the pattern that he follows when he prays. So we're gonna play just a clip of the prayer, and I want you to listen to it, and then Melinda and I are gonna discuss it. And we'd love to know what stands out to you.
That's the question I'm gonna ask this week, is what part of the prophet's prayer helped you or stood out to you? Our Father in Heaven, as fellow passengers on thy planet Earth, we humbly pray unto thee. We thank thee for life and all that sustains life. We thank thee for the beauties of the earth, for order in the universe, the planets, stars, and all things of eternal significance.
We thank thee for thy laws that protect and guide us. We thank thee for thy mercy and loving watch care. We thank thee for our families and loved ones who fill our lives with joy We are grateful for all who are striving to combat the COVID pandemic. Please bless them with protection and inspiration.
Wilt thou help us end this virus that has plagued so many of thy children. We thank thee for the leaders of nations and others who strive to lift us. We pray for relief from political strife. Wilt thou bless us with a healing spirit that unites us despite our differences. Wilt thou also help us repent from selfishness, unkindness, pride, and prejudice of any kind so that we can better serve and love one another as brothers and sisters and as thy grateful children.
We love thee, our dear Father, and pray for thy blessings upon us. In the name of thy beloved son, Jesus Christ. Amen. Well, thought there were some really, um, beautiful connection points of what we've been talking about. Yeah. Um, there's great vulnerability that he expresses right in the first sentence. I love that he says, "Fellow passengers on thy planet Earth."
Right? I mean, a passenger is just, like, you're not in control. You're not in the driver's seat. You are along for the ride, and- Mm-hmm ... uh, right? And, um, and we humbly pray unto thee. I, I think that's beautiful. And then all the gratitude he expresses, of course- Yeah ... is just really thoughtful, very sincere, and even in the midst of that, um, begging for the Lord's healing spirit to unite us despite our differences- Mm-hmm
but also calling us to repentance. It's definitely a call to repentance there, that we- Yeah ... need to repent from our unkindness and any sort of injustice, you know, all the selfishness, our pride, our prejudice of any kind, so that we can better serve and love one another. I, I... It's, it's really beautiful.
It's nice to hear his voice again. Oh, absolutely. I love that he called us thy grateful children. Yes. And I couldn't help but think of what you've taught us. He speaks the hurt and then offers the healing- Mm-hmm ... throughout that, and, and even to call us to repentance like Jeremiah had done, and how the people in 3 Nephi.
I mean, you're right. There are so many cool connections and touch points between these two things, and here we have a prophet of the Lord today doing the very thing that was done in Old Testament time. Mm-hmm. And so now, it just... I think the reason that I went back and, and listened to this was I thought, "Wow, what...
Have, have I been able to do any of that?" Like, am I being able to be a grateful child? I hope so. And how grateful he was with this healing spirit that was to serve and love others. It's a great just sort of like, "Hmm, where am I at? How have I been helping to fulfill that prayer?" So Given- Yeah ... six years ago.
Well, and it feels, I mean, we all remember it so well, right? Mm-hmm. And, and it, it, there was just, it was a major season of lament. It was, it was horrible. Yeah. And it was so comforting when, when he shared this and other things that the prophets and apostles would speak at that time. It was amazing the comfort they gave.
But it was, um, it w- this is a beautiful, gentle call to repentance. Yeah. And it almost seems like to me, with the way he prayed, that the anecdote, even though we were praying for one so physically we could be healed, but it seems like the spiritual anecdote was that of being thankful and grateful. Yes. Yes.
Because that's what he continually said throughout that prayer. Yeah. And maybe that's a great message for me to re- remember, when I'm going through those moments of despair and fear, that the hope and faith comes through being grateful and being thankful. Mm-hmm. And turning to the Lord and, and just lamenting to him, pouring out my heart to him- Yeah
that I'll receive help. So wow, Mindy, thank you. Thank you. That's the end of our discussion. Oh, so many good thoughts you shared. Oh, I loved it. Wow. Uh, so many good thoughts you shared. I can't believe how many notes I have. I'm gonna have to keep this. Okay, so just take a second, gather your thoughts, and is there one just truth, eternal truth, that you learned, anything that you'll take away from today's discussion?
Well, I absolutely loved what you said about wrestling requires your all. Oh. You cannot win your wrestling match if you don't give it everything you have. And that is such a good image. I just love it so. Well, that was my favorite part, too, when you were like, "Winter a little bit." I felt like you gave us all permission.
I could feel an audible sigh. Like- Mm ... oh, we can winter. Like, Mindy wintered a little bit, and she made it through that difficult time. I'm in good company. That was... I loved that discussion so much. That's nice. Okay. But I have to pick another one, 'cause you already shared that, and I have so many notes here.
Um, I did love, though, speak the hurt, offer the healing. Mm-hmm. And how our covenants are that. You can't keep your baptismal covenants if we're not willing to be real and- Yeah ... be vulnerable and share our hurt, otherwise we can't help. Mm-hmm. So that was so great you told us. And then the connection to 3 Nephi, are you kidding me?
Mindy, that was so smart. Well, it- I haven't read that anywhere. Like, you came up with that. That's you. Oh, no, it's just scripture. It's- Wow ... it's just nice to have opportunities to keep revisiting things because every time something different jumps out at you and you suddenly realize and, and I've just been in a real season that I really, really, really love the Old Testament.
Um- Yeah ... and it's good for me to find the connecting points with the Book of Mormon frequently there. It, it brings my heart joy. Mm-hmm. And I think it's very valuable to my, my growing in my faith, so I love it. Well, and to anyone who's in charge of music this week- Yes ... choose Great is thy Faithfulness.
Please. Make that your sacrament hymn. Please. Oh, it, it's- Or special musical number. Yes, truly, uh, it's one of my absolute all-time favorite hymns. You can really sing it with gusto and have- Ah ... your congregation stand up. Like, oh. How fun. That would be great. Yes. Yes. Okay, everyone, do, do that or suggest it to your bishop.
Just say, "This is the week we're studying Lamentations. Here's where it's from." Love that we started our whole episode at that, so thanks friend. I sure love you. So good to be with you. Love you, Tammy. Oh, it's always so good to be with you, so thank you, thank you. That discussion was so good. I love Mindy.
She brings so many thoughtful things to the discussion. Okay, I wanna know what you guys learned. Or if you wanna write me a haiku, feel free. You can join our Facebook or follow us on Instagram and do all of that. Comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday.
And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway because it's where we have links to the references as well as a transcript of this whole discussion, so go check it out. The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our perfect study group participant was Melinda Wheelwright Brown.
And you can find more information about my friend at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday, as well as links to her books. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week, and please remember that you really are God's favorite.