The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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[00:00:00] Segment 1
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[00:00:00]
A few years ago as I was getting dressed, you guys, I lost my balance and I fell over. Now, I thought this was a one-time deal, but it kept happening, and I realized I lacked the strength in my core to effectively get dressed in the morning. Now, was this the side effects of getting older? Maybe. The effects of menopause?
Possibly. The result of eating Lucky Charms for breakfast and having a candy cupboard? Absolutely not. What it boiled down to was that I needed more strength, so I sought out a class that would help give me strength for my core. And after three years, I can happily say I no longer fall over while getting dressed.
Well, as I was studying for the Book of Ezekiel this week, I was reminded of this need for strength because Ezekiel is all about strength, spiritual and physical strength from the Lord that will help us from falling over in any given situation. And fun fact, Ezekiel's name in Hebrew contains the word strength.
Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. If you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description, and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study, just like my longtime listening friend, Neva Ann Irving.
Oh, I loved meeting you at BYU Women's Conference. Thanks for saying hi. Now, another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different each week. And today we have an old friend and a new friend. Old meaning she's been on a lot.
That's all I meant, Sharon. Thank you very much. No, you were right the first time. Sharon Staples. And we are so excited because we have a new guest, and this has been a long time coming, and I've known this person since kindergarten. Ew, I'm so excited to introduce you to Marcia Peterson Blake. Hi, Marcia. Hi, Tam.
Ah. I love it. See, she... This is how long she knows me. My name, Tam. Tam. Tam. Oh, my gosh. Let me tell you about Marcia Peterson. She's a formidable force for good in the world, and growing up she was large and in charge. This woman got things done. Um, she wa- she lived on a street kind of far from me, but that was the street where all my friends lived, and we just loved Marcia.
But Marcia s- was so good growing up. Like, so good. And so y- I always describe it She belonged to the good group of girls, and I wanted to be a part of that group, but I kind of belonged to the naughty group of girls. And so I would've done much better for myself if I could've been in Marcia's group. So here she is now, I mean, she's a mom with five kids, and she is doing so much good in Las Vegas.
So Marcia, hi. Hi. So I wanted to be a part of your group, 'cause you had the fun. I felt like we were kind of the, we were a little, having a little boring time over there. But, um- No, you were good ... just so much fun and, and I always tell my kids that we grew [00:03:00] up in the best neighborhood in the whole entire world.
That's totally true. Yep. A- yeah Sandy, Utah. Sandy, Utah. Little kids running the streets. Oh. Everywhere. There were kids... You never had to worry about having someone to play with. There were so many kids. Oh, that's true. Right? No, that you're absolutely right. Yep, absolutely right. Yes. And then Chalk Circle, which you talked about with-
Jen Nelson a couple weeks ago. And, um- The singing group. The singing group. And it's just, I just have such great memories of our childhood, and I can still sing the so- the Silver Mesa School song. Oh, what is it? What a place, what a place we have here. Reading, writing, arithmetic too. Reading, writing, arithmetic too.
Hey, hey, what do you say? It's a treat to set your feet at the Silver Mesa School. It's a treat to set your feet at the Silver Mesa School. It's a treat to set your feet at the Silver Mesa, Silver Mesa School. My sisters are dying right now, because we sing that. I can't believe you totally re- and it was written by Sister...
It was written by Mrs. Balm, our first grade teacher. Yes, our first grade teacher. I can't believe I remember that. This is how good our neighborhood... Sharon, you're gonna love this story so much. This is how good the kids were in our neighborhood, though. You always had someone to play with. Uh, we, I, I have a memory.
We toilet-papered Marcia's house in the middle of the day- And then we went back and cleaned it up. That's how bored we were. Yeah. "Let's toilet paper her house, and now we're gonna go clean it up for her." What a gift. Yeah. What a gift. So we had the, we had the hugest willow trees in our front yard, and- Yep
ev- every weekend we got toilet papered. You had to. And my mom would make us go out there and pick it up and roll it. Yeah. She's like, "We're not wasting this stuff." A true pioneer. She- Oh, that's- Yes. Yes. Oh my gosh. That's wonderful. Marcia, you just sang our first, our elementary school theme song. That just made my whole day.
Okay, this is gonna be a fun discussion. Okay, so I have to tell you about a message I got from my friend Janine Selig in Australia, and she sent me this message and said that she and her husband listen regularly. So shout out to the Seligs in Australia. And she said, "My husband adores Sharon and says that she is his celebrity crush."
I just- Thank you. Thank you Brother Selig. Yeah, you're loved in Australia, Sharon. I love- You might have to venture out there. I would love to go. Yes. Yeah. So fun. Okay. Thank you. So make sure everyone goes and checks out the bio so you can read about Marcia and see a cute picture of her, as well as Sharon.
And you can find those in our show notes at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. So grab your scriptures everyone, and something to mark them with, and let's dig into the Book of Ezekiel. So first things first you two, what did the Holy Ghost teach you as you were preparing for our discussion of Ezekiel? 'Cause listen, Ezekiel's a long book.
So, um, in Ezekiel 2:3-4, and 6-7. Okay. And do you mind if I read them? Please do. Okay. So it says, "I send thee to the children of Israel, to be a rebellious nation, [00:06:00] that hath rebelled against me, they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day. For they are impudent children and stiff-hearted.
I do send thee unto them; and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord." And then you go down to six, "And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns be with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions. Be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they may be a rebellious house.
And thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear: for they are most rebellious." Wow. And as I was reading that, I was like What if that was the language used in, when our missionaries got their mission call? Right? Oh. You see all these, you see all these videos of kids now
My youngest is about to finish his mission in Australia f- funny enough. Um, and I, in my head, I'm like, if his mission call came and said, "I'm sending you to a rebellious nation that has rebelled against me, and they're not gonna listen to you, and- Oh ... they're stiff-hearted and n- " I mean, how ... Our missionaries would be like, "I don't wanna do that.
I don't wanna, I don't wanna go. That doesn't sound fun at all." Um, and so- Wow ... as I was reading that, I was like, well, what if a similar language was used when we got our callings? Right? Like, I'm, no one's gonna listen to you, and they're probably gonna mock you and laugh at you. Would we still, would we still serve?
Mm-hmm. And so then I was like, so what's our why? Are, are we going on missions, and are we doing our callings for, for people, or are we doing them for, for God? And I think a lot of times I'm a people pleaser- Yeah ... and so, you know, I want everyone to be happy, and I want everything to go smoothly. But we're coming to a time in the world where it's, it's not gonna be like that.
We're gonna have to stand like the prophet Ezekiel, and, and we're gonna have to say to the wicked, "You're, you're being wicked." And, um, and the Holy Ghost was telling, you, you need to be more bold. You need to be willing to stand up and say when right is right and wrong is wrong. Mm-hmm. Gosh, that's, that's- That was- That was good.
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, that was really good. That taught me a lot, especially in verse 6 where it talks about, "And thou dost dwell amongst scorpions." Like, their sting of their words, that's what I'm thinking, is the sting of their words is gonna hurt. I mean, they're rebellious, and you're not gonna like it when they turn you away or when they say mean things.
But that's okay. Don't be afraid of their words. Wow. Marcia- Yeah ... I'm gonna share that with my daughter on her mission. So cool. Sure. Yeah. Great. Thank you. Mm-hmm. You're welcome. Mine was His unending compassion. Hmm. [00:09:00] His unending pleading. It never ends. In Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, "As I live," saith the Lord God, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked.
But that the wicked turn away from his way and live. Tu- turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?" And then again in, um, 34:15 and 16, "I will feed my flock and I will cause them to lie down," saith the Lord God. "I will seek that which was lost and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick.
But I will destroy the fat and the strong. I will feed them with judgment." He never stops pleading. He never stops his compassion. I mean, never. The Old Testament, the New Testament is filled with his, "Can you hear me now?" Mm. "Can you hear me now?" And I just, I just am overwhelmed every time I hear his pleading, his compassion, his love, his
I thought, ah, I, uh, it's beyond me. It's infinite. I, I, I cannot grasp that kind of steadfastness in loving. I, I, it's just ... Well, I'm working on it, but my gosh. Mm-hmm. And the other thing was I really want to meet Ezekiel. Oh, why? Someday. Someday. Oh, he's a poet. Mm-hmm. He's articulate, and he has grit. Yeah. He has grit.
It's like Marcia said, you know, "Get back on the horse. Pony up. Don't let the people scare you away. Go for it." So I think- Mm ... I would like to meet him someday. Not that I ever would, but he's, he's, I think, one of my favorite ... He and Isaiah. Mm-hmm. Well, and Job. I mean, those older prophets- Yeah ... and young, who went through so much death, martyrdom.
The Prophet Joseph Smith. They, they just, they didn't give up, and he never gives up. Mm. Never. I thought of this when you said how much he has grit. I thought, oh, Ezekiel, is he like the John Wayne of the prophets? Yeah, right. Just get back up on your horse, pilgrim. Get on there, yeah. Right? Yep. Let's- Yeah
don't be afraid. Yeah. He keeps pleading and pleading. Wow. He searched for the lost. He delivers the f- uh, he just What great things, both of you, that the Spirit taught you. A- already I'm feeling just such a good, awesome, loving, peaceful feeling and with what [00:12:00] both of you shared, so thank you. We're feeling the Spirit already, and we're just 10 minutes in.
Great things. So thank you for sharing that. So taking what both of you shared, because I love this idea and we're gonna learn how the word strength is in Ezekiel's name. That's the thing I've noticed is that this prophet was sent to strengthen the people, and you both gave perfect examples of that.
Strengthen them with, "Listen, I'm gonna teach you. I'm gonna tell you. You're gonna go among the rebellious." Like, I loved that, Marcia. And I'm gonna strengthen the people by saying, "And there's unending compassion." So it's, it's just this beautiful connection. There's so much strength in this book. So in the next segment then, we are going to talk about how we can get strength and if there's ever been a time when you needed physical strength like me.
We'll talk about that next
[00:12:55] Segment 2
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So that was a fun story. I'm curious to have you ever, have you ever needed physical strength or any kind of strength for that matter? Because are you guys falling over in your closets when you're getting ready? That's right. Yeah. Uh, I, um, my husband is an ultra-marathon runner. Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh. Wow. I do not run, but I'll go hike while he's running.
Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, getting old is terrible. You just don't have the same stamina, and, you know, all the things we used to do we can't do as well anymore. So then I started lifting weights, and- Nice ... then I got hurt. My shoulder, I hurt my shoulder. Mm. So then I stopped lifting weights, and then I'm like, "Oh, wow, that really was helping me."
Yeah. But yeah, it's... Physical strength is not as fun as you get old. No. Tell me about it. Sha- Mm-hmm. I know. Yeah. Oh, Sharon's all about that, the physical strength, huh, Sharon? You bet. Yeah. I'm up every morning at 4:00. Mm-hmm. Not quite. I- I was just gonna talk about, it says, "When I needed strength." Yes, please.
And, um, I think probably the thing that popped into my mind first of all was the illness and the death of my mother. And my brother had passed on earlier. My father had passed on. I have no family here, n- no one anywhere within 3,000, 4,000 miles, and them not close. And so I had the full responsibility of caring for her and making sure she was taken care of.
And, and, and then wri- writing the obituary and making all the funeral arrangements and all that stuff. And I really, I really went down on my knees so many times a day saying, "Oh, Heavenly Father, what do I say about this loving woman? What... How do I get her into this lovely assisted living place so I can help her and visit her?"
You know, I just... It was just constant, like, for weeks and weeks. And, um, it's when I learned then that I kept saying to [00:15:00] myself over and over and over again, "Keep your covenants." Mm. "Keep your commandments, and everything will be all right." I just heard that over and over and over again. "Keep your command.
Keep the covenants. Keep your, the commandments. Everything will be all right, Sharon. Just move forward. Everything will be all right." So my strength came from bended knee, bowed head, and total and complete trust in the Savior. The first thing I said was, "Help." That was- Mm-hmm ... that was the major word that I had, was help.
And I got the help, and things did go well. And And I miss her. Wow. Yeah. Sorry, Sharon. Thank you, Sharon. Mm-hmm. Thank you for sharing that. I needed that message. I just wrote that down. That might be the thing the Spirit taught me today. Wow. Thank you. Mm-hmm. I, I think everyone listening to both of your stories goes, "Oh, yeah, I get it.
There have been times when I needed strength." So let's get into the Book of Ezekiel and find a connection to this word. So the first thing we wanna do is go to Ezekiel chapter one, and we're going to just look at verses one and two. And Marcia, can you read those verses for us? "Now it came to pass in the thirteenth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened and I saw visions of God.
In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of King Jeho- Jehoiachin's captivity." Sure. Yeah. That's, that's good. That's good. We're gonna go with, we're gonna go with that. Yeah. You bet. So in verse one and two we have this word captives and in captivity, so that's the situation that's going on right now for the person we're talking about.
They are in captivity to the Babylonians, and verse three tells us who this person is, which we know 'cause it's the book we're studying. But go ahead and, Sharon, will you read verse three? "The word of the Lord came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the Lord was there upon him."
Okay, let's highlight the prophet's name. Ezekiel. There we go. There we go. And the word Ezekiel in Hebrew means God will strengthen. That's literally what his name means. How much do we love that? It's wonderful. Ah, it's so cool. So of course, in my mind, I'm picturing Ezekiel, John Wayne, he's got on a cowboy hat, and now he's wearing boots.
But he is sitting by this river. He's literally sitting by the river Chebar, and he has this incredible vision. Now, before we get into that, what I think is interesting is that if you knew your name or if you knew that God was going to strengthen you, what would your expectations be for having God strengthen you?
Well, I think when I first thought about it, I was like, "Well, I should be able to do everything." Right. If, if I have the power and strength of God, right? Yes. I, I should be able to do it all. I can do... I [00:18:00] wouldn't need to sleep. I could... I'd be skinny. I, I'd have all the power- ... in the world, right? And, um- I wouldn't fall over in my closet.
Yeah. Sure. Um, but I think that that's, that's the p- it's completely different. I, I think really having the strength of God is being able to see people the way He sees them. It's being able to understand a scripture when you read it. It's be able to really accept the atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives.
I think those are what the strength of God really is, because those are the things that we as humans really struggle with, I think. And so the power of God is the ability to, I think, look at ourselves through that lens and- Yeah. I like that ... make changes and, and tweak and do those things that help us to get closer to Him.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It is contextual. Mm-hmm. I mean, uh, there's spiritual strength, physical strength, you know, not being able to put your clothes on, um, m- m- mental strength- Mm-hmm ... relationship strength. I mean, my gosh, strength in relationships. Um, social strength, how to en- engage with people. And w- what I feel is that when I go to the temple and I leave, I am endowed with the power of the priesthood.
Not the authority, that goes to the boys. Yeah. But the power of the priesthood I have- Mm-hmm ... which is God's strength. Yeah. And I just need to ask through the Holy Ghost, "Help me to, um, deal with this person. Uh, help me to give this talk in sacrament. Help me to do- Yeah ... you know." And so it would be... And it would be contextual, like you said, Marcia.
Wherever you are, whatever you do, you have to tweak it here, tweak it there. But knowing that we have it, when you say, "If you knew God would strengthen you," He does. Yeah. The minute you walk out of that temple, you are endowed with the power of the priesthood, and you can call upon it, you can invite it, you can plead with it, you, you...
So anyway. Well, a- Sharon- Mm-hmm ... to go along with that, if you think about it- Yeah ... the men in our church that have the authority of the priesthood, they can't use the- Uh-huh ... priesthood on themselves. Right. They can't use the power of God on themselves. The power of God is given to us to help others, to bless- Mm-hmm
the lives of others. And in doing that- Right ... we are blessed. Exactly. Wow. Excellent point. Yeah. Both of you, great points. Because here's Ezekiel, and his name means God will strengthen, and he's about to go preach to a people who are, like it said in the scripture, I love that you shared that, Marcia, scorpions, people who are rebellious, people who are mean.
And I wonder if at any point Ezekiel in his ministry was like, "It's not working." "In fact, I, I was sent to strengthen them." But I think what's fascinating is that [00:21:00] while he didn't have the strength to completely convert and change all of these people, the Lord reminds him of what his job is to do. And so let's go in really quickly because you probably noticed this as you read the Book of Ezekiel, what name does the Lord call Ezekiel over and over and over again?
Son of Man. Son of Man. Let's go to Ezekiel chapter 2. We're gonna highlight the first time we see that in verse one right here, 'cause there's a footnote that we think, I think is so important. Ezekiel chapter 2 verse one, "And he said unto me, Son of man." You're gonna see that so many times. I wish I'd run a number crunch on that and seen.
I mean, I'd say over 100. 90 times. Oh. 90. Did you really count it, Sharon? I did. 90. Sharon, thank you. I was close. And I usually am hyperbolic. Good on me. 90 times he's gonna be called Son of Man. Look down at the footnote for footnote A because I think this is really important for us to understand. Marcia, will you read the footnote for, uh, Ezekiel chapter 2, verse 1, letter A?
Sure. "The expression Son of Man used in Ezekiel refers only to his prophet. As a Hebrew idiom, it means simply human. It is not to be confused with the title Son of Man, which refers to Christ." Now, we're gonna go to that cr- title for Christ in a minute, but isn't this interesting that it's only used in Ezekiel to refer to him, and it simply is an idiom meaning human, son of the humans.
Now, that is a fascinating connection because here he is saying, "You're a son of the humans," and I thought what was interesting for me was that this was the Lord using this term to emphasize that Ezekiel was the recipient of the Lord's messages directed to man on Earth. Mm-hmm. And it goes back to your thing, Marcia.
This is like a missionary call. This is saying, "Here's who you're gonna go help, Son of Man. Ezekiel, Son of Man, you're gonna go help the humans, and I need you to help them" And it, and it's not to be confused with the actual title for Christ, but I do love the connection to it because I'm gonna give you a cross reference.
So where it says right there, "Not to be confused with the title Son of Man, which refers to Christ," let me give you a cross reference. Put Daniel 7:13. You're gonna see that title, Daniel 7:13, and this is so cool. This is the revelation that Daniel receives about Adam-ondi-Ahman and the me- and how we will be with the Savior there when all of the keys of the priesthood will be handed back down through all of the lineages given to Adam and to Christ before the millennium.
And in Daniel 7:13 it says, "I saw in the night visions, and behold, one like the Son of Man came with the clouds of heaven and came to the Ancient of Days." Ancient of Days is another name for Adam, "and they brought him near before him." So that title, Son of Man, is very important. It is the name for Jesus Christ.
It's used more than 80 times in the Gospels as a [00:24:00] messianic title for Jesus. And so you- when you do see it in... Now, I thought this was interesting because the Son of Man, it always appears in modern revelation with man capitalized. So you'll find it in the Doctrine and Covenants, and it will say Son of Man in caps.
And so just kind of know that that's another name for the Savior because He is a son of the Man, which is in Moses, Man of Holiness is another name for God. So He is the son of that Man, the Man of Holiness. So there's that connection to the Son of Man, Son of Man. Brother Ludlow in his book, Unlocking the Old Testament- Oh, share please
yeah, it's, he lists five things that Ezekiel received, five specific charges from the Lord. He was to warn Israel, who would be hostile and stubborn. He was to speak only to Israel even though they would ignore him. He would be fortified with a stone forehead, which means tough skin. He was to receive, understand, and proclaim to the exiles.
So he was to preach to the Jews and the exiles, I mean, and those who weren't exiled, all that the Lord told him. He was to be a watchman of Israel, we get into that tower thing. Mm-hmm. And he was to return home and be dumb, not speak until he received word of Jerusalem's destruction, which occurred- Wow
seven and one half years later. Anyway, that's- Yeah ... uh, you know, like Marcia said, if, if you handed that piece of paper to a missionary and said, "Here- ... please, this is your charge," I don't know what we want to put- Ooh. We do. Sharon, I'm so glad that you shared that because going into this idea where he is called Son of Man as a reminder of who you're here to serve- Uh-huh
help these humans, help these people. Wow, what a great outline for how he was called to do that. Oh, so cool. Okay, so let's do this then. We're gonna, in the next segment we're gonna dive into all of the ways that Ezekiel's going to do that, and the first thing that he's gonna receive is a vision. We'll talk about that next.
[00:26:06] Segment 3
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This is the prophet of visions. Like, he gets so many revelations and so many visions. And the, one of the things, Sharon, I love how you said Ezekiel's one of your favorite prophets. I would have to agree with you with, I also think that because Ezekiel acts out a lot of the prophecies he get, which I, again, you know I'm visual.
So rather than saying the prophecies, he's gonna act them out for the people. And so we begin right here with one of the craziest visions because when you read this vision in Ezekiel 1, you can cross-reference this vision to Ezekiel 10 and Ezekiel 43 where the same vision keeps recurring, and he describes it in the oddest way.
So let's just look at some of these things. The vision is starting in verse, Ezekiel 1:5 all the way to 25. So 5 to 25. Did you think it was crazy as you read it? Yes. Yes. [00:27:00] I did. Why? Tell me. Well, it, I couldn't put it in a picture. I could, I couldn't, I couldn't visualize it. I couldn't get my head around it.
But- Me either. I went to so many- ... I liked s- c- Googling Ezekiel- Uh-huh, uh-huh ... um, artwork for vision in chapter 1, and there, there were some very strange, strange images that, that came up and I was like, "That, that doesn't make any more sense to me than reading it." Absolutely. In fact, share some verses quickly from this vision that stood out to you, and then we're gonna get into it.
Uh, let's see. Everyone had four faces, and everyone had four wings. My gosh. Yeah, there's this, this throne that he's sitting on, and it has a face of a lion and a man, an ox, an eagle. That's in verse 10. They have wings. That's crazy to me. In fact, one of the best descriptions I, or the one of the best drawings of this I found was on YouTube.
It's on the BibleProject. I love the BibleProject. Go and watch the one for Ezekiel, and it will draw this whole vision, which I thought was so powerful. But this is a vision of Christ. So keep sharing with me. What are some things that stood out to you about his description of seeing this vision of the Savior?
So I thought it was interesting about wheels. "Now behold the living creatures." Oh. "Behold one wheel upon the earth, but the living creatures with his four faces," that's verse 15. I was like, "Okay, where does, how do wheels fit into this," right? 'Cause I'm trying to, like, think about Revelation, right? And, and- Mm-hmm
how we kind of have to take that vision and break it down. But I was like, "Wheels? That, that sounds very weird," especially for their time. Like- Yep ... uh, so that was very strange to me. Very good. I loved all of the usage of the crystals and all of the beautiful gems that it describes in here. Sapphires, we have the color of beryl.
Don't even know what that means, but it sounds good. You have, you have burning coals of fire and lamps. I mean, crystal it talks about in here, and just these great beau- just the beauty of this was s- is what stood out to me. Sharon came prepared. So Sharon, teach us what you learned about this vision, what some of the things mean.
And so just y- if you have the verses or whatever, just- First of all, it's- ... teach us, Sharon ... okay, first of all, it's a disclaimer. Okay. It says, "It is very difficult, if not impossible, for a mortal to convey in writing the message and spirit of a vision or other revelation from God so that the reader will have a complete understanding of what took place and what was communicated."
That's from the Old Testament Student Manual. And it says here from Joseph Smith, h- "Four creatures that had four faces," and you can read about that in John and Revelation. "Man eye, m- man, lion, ox, and eagle. These [00:30:00] four beasts were classes of beings," according to the Prophet Joseph Smith. Um, classes of beings.
"The wings of the four creatures are representation of power to move, to act. The wheels represented flexibility and mobility of the four creatures." So cool. Now, I have to go back to what it said. It is very difficult. Even with that explanation and that understanding, it's still very difficult for me, and I, w- what I decided was I didn't have to understand the image.
I just had to understand the message. Mm. And what's the message? Well, I haven't understood it yet.
What do you think the message might be for us of h- him receiving this vision? One, that God is by his side giving him visions and trying to help him understand what this is all about. Mm-hmm. And secondly, um, that- I don't know Okay. That's a great answer. Love that Uh, j- just he, he, it... And it's, it's Ezekiel's way of trying to explain to me- Mm-hmm
what he saw in vision. Yeah That, that, that's what it is. He, he's teaching, he's teaching the exiles. He's teaching the, the wayward Jews. He's teaching the lost Jews. He's teaching everyone. And he's, and he's trying to explain what his vision is. And because he's a poet- Mm-hmm ... a- a- and a lot of his, you know, verses are in poetry, it's, it's difficult.
But I think one of the things that it taught me is that God is a being, right? He is- Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah, yeah ... and he's in the form of a human. Mm-hmm. And I think so many times people are like, "Oh, he's just a spirit." And we know from the rev- from the revelation and vision that Joseph Smith saw that he is a being, and that- Yeah
they're two separate beings. And so I, I think that Ezekiel is telling people, "Look, he's, he's just like us. He looks like us. He, a, you know- Mm-hmm ... he has the same features that we do." And so, there, he's testifying to them that, that God is who God says he is. Yeah. Great. Well, and, and the description of him, Marcia, I'm so glad you shared that with us, because I want you to read verse 28.
And as we go there, in verse 24 it says, "His voice is like the noise of great waters." Like, he's trying to describe the, how he's hearing the Lord's voice, and he's trying to describe what it looks like seeing the Lord. And, and like you said, Sharon, it's so hard to do. I don't even know that I could describe what he looks like, 'cause it's, again, so bright.
So he's using the best words he has possible. But I love how he ends the vision [00:33:00] with these words in verse 28. Go ahead, Marcia. "As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord: and when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake."
So when I read this the first time, I loved how he used the bow in the day of rain. Mm. Because that was the promise that God would never wipe the earth again, right? But the people in this story are wicked beyond wicked beyond wicked, right? And he's like, "Look, I'm reminding you that we have a rainbow, and it was there to remind me that he's not gonna wipe us off of the face of the earth again.
But he can. He can if he wants to." Yeah, I love that, Marcia. I love that. Well, and the connection that I made to this vision, because again, it's so crazy to understand, was I thought of other prophets who have received a similar vision and their description. So I put this in my scriptures. I cross-referenced Isaiah's vision when he got his call.
That's in Isaiah chapter 6. It's very similar to Ezekiel So I put Isaiah's vision, Isaiah 6. Then we have Lehi's vision before he left with his family in the wilderness. That's in 1 Nephi chapter one, and he's doing his best to describe what he's seeing, which when you read it you're like, "What? 12 stars?
What?" Mm-hmm. Then we have another example, Daniel chapter seven. You read Daniel chapter seven, and that vision's like, "Wait, what? What is he describing here?" But again, it's similar to Ezekiel's vision that he's having. And then we have the last one, which is our modern-day prophets and apostles describe the living Christ.
And when they came out with that testimony of the living Christ- Mm-hmm ... look at this paragraph right here. It's very similar to what Ezekiel saw. So Sharon, read this paragraph for us. This is from The Living Christ, a testimony of, you could even say from the visions that the, our prophet and apostles have received, their testimony of him.
You bet. "Of the living Christ, the prophet Joseph Smith wrote, 'His eyes were as a flame of fire. The hair of his head was white like the pure snow. His countenance shone above the brightness of the sun. And his voice as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying, 'I am the first and the last.
I am he who liveth. I am he who was slain. I am your advocate with the Father.'" Thank you. So knowing this vision right here and seeing the connections to other prophets that have received vision and testimony of Christ, why would that give them strength? Why is God consistent with [00:36:00] giving them these visions before they do hi- his work?
Well, I think that they have a, a charge, um, that kind of goes back to, um, Ezekiel 3 where it talks about verses 16 and 17, where it, it talks about that if they don't proclaim to the wicked and call them wicked, that the sin of the wicked will be on their heads. Mm-hmm. And so I think the opportunity for them to, to see our Savior, it, it changes the f- the faith into knowledge, and the knowledge gives them that power to do those hard things.
Yeah. And- Oh, that's a good answer ... if it was just the faith like, like I have, I have the faith, but, you know, again, I'm still on that do I, do I please people or do I please God, right? Which is, where am I- Yeah ... on that line? Mm-hmm. And, and with... And there's times in different callings that I've served in where I was prompted to say things that Marcia would not say, right?
Yeah. I would not say it. And, and there's times where I've said things that people looked at me like, "Who are you to say that?" Mm-hmm. But that's when I know that the Spirit is speaking through me, and they're not, they're not my words. And because of the experiences that I've had, I'm able to do that. And so I think that the experiences that our prophets and apostles have, both in the Old Testament and then, and nowadays, is that knowledge helps them and gives them the strength that they need to proclaim what's gonna have to be proclaimed in these last days.
Oh. Well, Marcia, I just love what you said so much, 'cause then my thought was, "Well, what about us?" Like, I'm not having visions of the Savior, but I've been encouraged to understand and get to know him. So how can that... I mean, think about it. How can learning about Jesus give me strength? How can learning about J- how has learning about Jesus given you guys strength?
Or you, Marcia, you just shared that. What about you, Sharon? Um, I have my own visual of the Savior. Mm. So it's what he said- That goes to my core. That, those last, that last, "I am," you know, "the light of the world. I am..." And, and, and when he says that, I have his image, my image of him in my mind, and I listen to him say that, and that strengthens me.
I cannot grasp brightness of the sun, white as snow. I, I, it... He's not like that for me. I'm sorry. And that, that, but that's- Yeah ... how the, the prophet saw him. And, and I say amen. Amen. You saw him that way. And, but for me, I'm not to that level. Mm-hmm. I don't see him in that. I- But hear- hearing and [00:39:00] reading what, what he, who he says he is- Yeah And then I, I just, you know, when you kneel for prayer, you, you get an image in your mind of him or who you're praying for, family members, neighbors, whatever, the prophet.
When you get ... You have an image of them. So his messages are the ones that go to my core. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Thank you. I think one of the things that helps me too is that, um, I am very blessed to have a earthly father who is amazing- Oh ... and has such a strong testimony of the Savior. And so, and, and the Heavenly Father.
But a lot of times when I think about Heavenly Father, I, I'm like, "Okay, well, my dad," who I have that one-on-one personal relationship, would do this and would- Mm-hmm ... say this. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So why I can then understand- Yeah ... my Heavenly Father a little bit better. And I think for the Savior side is we have to get to know Jesus Christ.
Mm-hmm. The, the only way for us to, to understand him and to gain strength from him is to learn about him. Yeah. And when we learn about him- Absolutely ... then it helps us. He spoke out, right? He, he said things that were not popular. Mm-hmm. People did not like what he was saying. He taught with parables. He
And so sometimes they're a little harder to understand. But when we really try, that's all he's asking us to do, is to try to learn about him and understand him. Then he gives us that strength that we need, and that's where I find I build my relationship with him. Mm-hmm. Is where I am willing to come to him and I'm humbling myself.
I'm really good at saying, "I got this. I'll just do it by myself." Mm-hmm. There's so many other- Because you're the oldest. I'm the oldest. And I have five younger brothers. So- Uh-huh. Oh my gosh ... you know. And, and I think that, um, that when we try to do all those things by ourself, we deprive ourselves of those opportunities to watch the Savior help us and to see his hand in our lives.
Yeah. And that's one of the struggles that I have, is that, um, allowing him to help me. Because I've always said, "Oh, he's got, he's got people that need him way more than he, than I do." Right. "I'm, I'm good." Yeah. "I'm good," right? But that's so not true. Right. I need him. I need him in my life. Mm-hmm. And, but I have to let him in.
I have to allow- Yeah ... him to come in and help me, and the only way to do that is to get to know him so that I can build that relationship of trust with him. He trusts me I, I need to learn better how to trust Him. Amen. That's great. Amen. Thank you to what both of you shared, because I've connected it now to this idea where here's Ezekiel sitting by the river receiving a vision of the Savior, and that's [00:42:00] the first thing he wants us to know is, "I've been called to serve a mission.
Let me tell you in whom I receive my strength. It's the Savior." And so in the next segment, we're gonna learn about two things that he's called to do that he's going to need to have the Savior's strength to get it done. We'll do that next.
[00:42:26] Segment 4
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Let's go to Ezekiel chapter 33 because in Ezekiel 33 and 34, there is some beautiful imagery that the Lord is going to use as He tells Ezekiel the prophet, "Here's what I need you to be." Now, He calls him this in Ezekiel chapter 3 verse 17, and then He also brings it back up again in Ezekiel 33. Let's go to Ezekiel 33, and we're going to read verse 2.
Sharon, can you read verse 2 for us? Absolutely. "Son of man," there it is again, "speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts and set him for their watchman- Okay, that word watchman, let's mark that because Ezekiel is called to be a watchman over the people, and He calls him that in verse th- uh, back in Ezekiel chapter 3 verse 17.
He says, "Son of man, I made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore hear the word of my mouth, and give them warning from me." So Ezekiel's set to be a watchman. Now Sharon, tell us what that means. What is a watchman? Okay. Watchmen were centuries stationed... Sen- sentries, not centuries. Watchmen were sentries stationed on a wall or in a tower in order to look out for and warn of dangers approaching afar.
They were employed to protect cities as well as vineyards, fields, or pastures. As God's called and authorized servants, prophets are separated from the world, draw closer to Him, and are allowed to see things from a more heavenly perspective. Prophets have a solemn responsibility to warn us of coming dangers, and they will continue to do so regardless of public opinion.
There you go, Marcia, do God or people, regardless of public opinion or trends in society. By heeding prophets' warnings, we can find safety and avoid the calamities that may befall us. Ooh, that's good. Our, I think our watchmen are our prophets, seers, and revelators, our apostles and prophets- Yes ... our presiding bishopric, our bishops, our stake presidents, our Relief Society presidents.
Yeah. I mean, I- 100%. Oh, yeah. Well, let's read a little bit more about it in Ezekiel 33, and then I'm gonna ask you two how has a prophet or an apostle or any of those positions you just said, Sharon, been a watchman in your life? So look at verse three in Ezekiel 33, and we'll each take a turn word- reading each verse.
So [00:45:00] Sharon, we'll pick up with you again in verse three, then Marcia four, I'll do five, then Sharon six- Okay ... Marcia seven, and that's where we'll end. This is verse three. "If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet and warn the proph- and warn the people- "Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet and taketh not warning, if the sword come and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head."
"He heard the sound of the trumpet and took not warning. His blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul." "But if the watchman see the sword come and blow not the trumpet and the people be not warned, if the sword come and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand."
"So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel. Therefore, thou shalt hear the word at my mouth and warn them from me." Okay, Sharon, why'd you react that way? Well, I don't ever want to be a prophet or a revelator. Right. I don't, I I don't want to be any of those things. I mean, "In his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand."
Yeah, no wonder bishops feel so responsible. No wonder they're trying to help us, and shepherd us, and guide us, and keep it. I mean, that's terrible. And how s- how serious they must take it, especially at, like, I think of conference time, how serious those prophets, and apostles, and general leaders- Oh ... take are, their messages that they're given.
Absolutely. Wow. And the, when you listen to Sister President Chbo- Chioba, the primary president- Mm-hmm ... she's a watchman. She's a watch woman. Oh, yes. President, President Johnson, she's a watch woman. I mean, uh- Mm ... you gotta, we have to pay attention, folks. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But what if something's said that, that, that you don't like, that doesn't sit well with you?
Then I work on it till it does There you go. Yeah. I mean, I- she, she or he are gonna know better than I do, and I pray about it, and I consider it, and I meditate, and I do whatever, and I think, "Okay, let's consider this, consider..." Then I think, "All right. I'll go with it." So I don't dismiss it. I'll question it- Mm-hmm
but then I try to find the answers to my questions. So it's okay to question it? Oh, I think so, absolutely. Mm-hmm. 'Cause we're all just learning, and if I learn a new thing, you know, I have to say, "Well, does that work here?" Mm-hmm. "Does that work there? Does it...?" Mm. So y- you know, I learn something new every conference.
I learn something new usually every sacrament meeting if I stay awake, and I learn, you know, lots of stuff. So yeah, [00:48:00] questioning is good. Yeah. That makes me happy to hear you say, Sharon, because you could so easily have been like, "Well, I've heard that message before. That, that's not new." But I love how you're like, "I learn something new every time."
Mm-hmm. And it's okay to question it, and then to go get your answer. Right. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Well, and I think we all have the opportunity to be watchmen in different callings. Um, serving in, uh, in young women's, I think that's one of the biggest opportunities to be a watchman, because we have such a huge impact on those young women.
We're with them sometimes more than their families are, it seems like, all the activities that we do with them. And the opportunity to, to be a watchman for them and, and help lead and guide them is huge. And, and so i- with our own children, we are watchmen. Um- Mm-hmm ... and it's our job to, to, you know, I- we call them out when they're not, not doing what's right.
And sometimes as a mom, that's really hard, 'cause you're like, "But I love you," and- ... and you don't wanna sound harsh, but guess what? That's on your head. If you're not, if you're not willing to stand up and help them understand that what they're doing isn't, isn't right, then you're gonna have to take responsibility for that.
And, and- Yeah ... and so I think if we look at it as an opportunity versus, versus scary, we have an opportunity- Mm-hmm ... to represent the Lord, and we can use kindness to do it. Our, our Savior did that. He, He didn't condemn people, but He didn't excuse their sin either. And, and so we can do that the same way, um, in those r- areas of responsibility that we have.
Oh, definitely. Well, and then I'm looking at these words again, and they're really striking my heart because, and Sharon, you sh- you shared this idea again, verse 11's yours, where he say unto them, "As I live," sayeth the Lord, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn away and live.
Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways. For why will ye die, O house of Israel?" So now that we have context for that verse that you shared, Sharon- Mm-hmm ... is so powerful to me because I'm imagining we're in this city, someone's on the watchtower. They can see for miles what I can't see, and they're blowing the trumpet, and I'm imagining me in the city going, "Really?
Like, is someone really coming? I probably need to see for myself." But if I understood that the person on that watchtower actually knew the savior, had a vision of him, I would trust him. And I would say, "Sounds good to me. Get in the, get in the house, kids." Like- Mm-hmm. Yeah ... "Let's hunker down. Something bad is coming" Mm-hmm And so what we're dealing with here is people who are like, "I don't believe this.
I don't believe Ezekiel. I don't believe all these past prophets," because they believe that Lehi would've been a contemporary with Ezekiel and Jeremiah and Daniel, and all of these people are warning. They had so many prophets warning the people, and yet the people at this time are like, "Nah, that's not true."
And so then you get this word where he's like, "No, turn. Turn from your evil ways. Like, just [00:51:00] come on. Get it together." And so I, I love this idea of being a watchman and how we have watchmen today. Wonderful. Yeah. So watchman is one of the things Ezekiel was called to be. Now let's quickly turn to Ezekiel 34.
We have Ezekiel 34:1 through 6, and there's a word that you're gonna see a lot of. Let's go to verse two. And in just verse two, you see it four different times. So will you please read verse two for us, Marcia? "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say unto them, thus, sayeth the Lord God unto the shepherds.
Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves. Should not the shepherds feed the flocks?" So we're dealing with some naughty shepherds. It was actually a term for people at that time who were the leaders over the people. They were called the shepherds of Israel. And now Marcia, you have something interesting about this because over and over again you're gonna see how the shepherds are not doing their job, and so they need a shepherd.
Marcia, what do you have about the word shepherd? So as I was looking through it, I, in the first part of the chapter, the, the shepherds are evil doers, right? Mm-hmm. They're, they're people that are like, "Yeah, I'm more, way more worried about myself than I am about other people. I'm gonna take care of me, and s- they can take care of themselves.
Not my job" But as we get towards the latter part of the chapter, then it turns and it talks about the one shepherd. And in verse 23 it says, "And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David. He shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd." And i- I know it says David in there, but above one shepherd I wrote Christ, because Christ is the one shepherd.
And, and so it takes this, this, these naughty people- Mm-hmm ... and uses that term, but then it uses that same term for our Savior. And it kind of to me was like, okay, the Savior's gonna come in, and h- he's gonna... You know, vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord, right? He's gonna clean up the mess. Yeah. And he's gonna compensate for all the bad things that were done to us.
And he's gonna gather us, and he's gonna bind our wounds, and he's gonna heal us, and he's gonna provide an atonement that is going to allow us to save... H- he's going to save us. We cannot save ourselves. And so we are in the muck, and we're eating the leftovers until he comes. And in Ezekiel's time, he hasn't come yet.
Mm-hmm. And so he's trying to preach about something that hasn't happened yet, and trying to help them understand that this really is gonna happen. Yeah. This really is gonna happen. And, and so I, I think the, the yin and yang of it, right, is that the one shepherd cancels out all of the bad things that the evil shepherds did.
Oh, no, I like that. That's really [00:54:00] good. And everything you said in verse 22 when he says, "Therefore I will save my flock," indeed he will. And he will save them from these wicked, awful shepherds. So in fact, in verse six he's like, "My she- my sheep wander in the mountains. They don't have a shepherd." And so they will, though, and that's the Savior.
Mm-hmm. So thank you, Marcia. Excellent. So he's called to be a watchman, and then we get this imagery of the shepherd, like the shepherds they c- were supposed to trust in were not trustworthy. And so now we know there will be a shepherd that will come, and that will give the people strength. Having a watchman gives us strength.
Having a, having the shepherd in our lives gives us strength. And so that's the message from Ezekiel 33 and 34. But then we have another powerful message in Ezekiel 36 that is such beautiful wording of strength. We'll talk about that next.
[00:54:55] Segment 5
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I do have a fun question to start this out with though. Name a good book or movie sequel A sequel. Not the original, just the sequel. Yeah, something that comes after the movie or the book, like, to give you more of the goodness that you enjoyed. Mm-hmm. Like the Book of Mormon? Oh, you like... That's a sequel to the Bible.
It is. What should I do? How did I not even go there, Sharon? 10 out of 10. Of course Sharon says the Book of Mormon. I'm like, Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark. I don't know. Yeah. So my friend Jen, um, for my birthday, sent me the book The Unselected Journals of Emma M. Lyon, and I am now obsessed with this book.
There's eight. Number nine is coming out in February, and I'm like, it's just one of those things that I just... You're like, you can't wait till the next one comes out, right? Okay. And so that's like that anticipation of, it's coming, and I can't wait to hear the next part of the story. Oh, perfect example.
Okay. So I want us to be thinking about this idea of sequels, and here's why. Ezekiel 36 is a sequel to Ezekiel 33 and 34. Mm-hmm. So know that going into this. So this, Ezekiel 36, is proclaiming, again, Latter-day gathering of Israel, and it's previewing the Latter-day Israel, and it's making a name of the Lord known to the heathen or the flocks of men.
And there are so many passages of strength where the Lord's, again, going back to what you said, Sharon, this unending compassion or pleading- Mm-hmm, yeah ... that the Lord has for us. So I asked my guests to read Ezekiel 36, and just to come with things that stood out to them, words of strength or words of compassion that the Lord has in this, like, watchman, shepherd wording, and now we have the sequel wording.
What'd you get? So I'm gonna start, and I'm gonna go quickly. But, um, in verse eight, he is going to speak against people who are bad. And another one, he's gonna shoot forth branches of truth. And in nine, he's going to say he's going to... The, uh, the branches will yield fruit. And also in nine, he says, "I am for you."
Oh, I love that, Sharon. I love that one. And he says in nine, "I will [00:57:00] turn unto you." And in 10 he says, "I will multiply man upon you, and cities inhabited, and the wastes shall be built," which means he's gonna build up the cities and the gospel. And in 11 he says, "I will increase, and you will settle old estates," which means you will clean up stuff again.
11, "Know that I am." In 23 he says he will sanctify his name. And in 26, "He will give you a new heart and a new spirit." In 27, "I will put my spirit within you." And in 28 he says, "You will be my people." Tell me why that's so tender for you. Well, it's what, it's just a continuation of what Mar- Marcia said. The good shepherd rules over all the bad shepherds, and he is going to...
He, he's confirming himself to me again. Who he is and what he does, and and he speaks for himself Mm-hmm It's, it's, it... The Savior saying, "Put my spirit within you." In fact, just read verse 26 for us, Sharon "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."
Ah, can we hear him now? Are we hearing him? Do we get this? Hello? Sharon, what, with your background that you have in psychology, as I was reading verse 26 with you, how he's like, "I'll give you a new heart. I'll give you a new spirit. I'm gonna take away the stony heart." Why do we love our stony hearts, though?
Why is it hard to give up a stony heart? Because we're human, and it's what we're born with. And, and... Or our parents raised us this way, reared us this way. You raise cattle- Mm-hmm ... you rear children. Our parents reared us this way, or we got a bad... Y- we got polio, we got diabetes, we got, you know, all these kinds of things.
And so we have difficulties. And like Marcia said, sometimes we think we can overcome them. We'll go to the doctor and he'll fix it- Mm-hmm ... instead of going to our knees. So it, it means that He is constant, consistent, steadfast, unrelenting, eternal. He doesn't give up. Yeah. I mean, we've read how many chapters in the Old Testament, and He's still pleading with us, and the exiled Jews, and the cast-out Jews to shape up.
To pay attention. I'm telling you again, and again, and again. I am the light. Wow. I, I just- I just think I'm in love. Those were powerful [01:00:00] verses. Thank you for sharing that, Sharon. That was beautiful. I, I took a pink highlighter and highlighted 36 with all of the words and phrases that I love also. Oh, good.
The whole chapter's pink. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Just to remind me of his goodness. Uh-huh. So thank you, Sharon. Marcia, what did you find? Um, so one of the things I loved that, that Sharon didn't quite mention was that, um, he called the, the, he called them the mountains of Israel. Oh, where's that? What verse? So, um, in verse 8 it says, "But ye, but ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches and yield your fruit."
And so I love the mountains. Mm-hmm. Um, similar to Tammy, we, we had a lot of fun at girls camp in the- Yes ... in the mountains. Um- The best time ... the best time. And, um, so the, the mountains are, are a s- sacred and place for me, and, um, a lot of times where I go to need to be by myself and, and commune. But the thing about mountains is they're strong, and they're stable, and they don't move.
And so that's what he's calling them. He's calling them, "You are my s- The, the people that I am talking to, you are the, the best of the best. You are, you have gone through all of these things and, and you still believe in our savior, Jesus Christ. You still believe in me. And, and you don't have any proof yet, but you still believe."
And that's, to me, that's c- that's covenant-keeping people. That's who President Nelson talks about, the covenant-keeping people. We're not perfect, but we're trying. And, and as we try, he, he strengthens, he strengthens us and, and makes us even more immovable than we were before. That's so cool. Yeah. I love that.
I, I s- highlighted, "Oh, mountains of Israel," and I put, "compliment of the highest order." Isn't that neat he's calling us that? Very good. Anything else from that chapter? Give us another one. It's just a good one. So good. You got anything else, Marcia? Nope. Sharon said all the ones, the other ones that I had. The, I guess the other one was, "They will dwell in the land of their inheritance."
And, uh, they had been pulled out so many times and, and, and, you know, removed from their places. And they were refugees wherever they went. And I think that knowledge that we can go home, right? W- where we are- Mm-hmm ... here on this earth, this isn't home. In, in a sense, we are exiled, but not in a bad way, in a good way.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. We're exiled to come here and learn and grow. But when this is over, we get to go home to the land- Mm ... of our inheritance and, and live with our families forever. And that's a big part of our next s- segment, is talking about the temple, and those covenants that we make allow those things to happen.
They allow us to return and live in our land of inheritance. Wow, Marcia. Thank you. Great. Yeah. [01:03:00] And I love how you introduce what we'll talk about next because, for me, I loved Ezekiel 36 verse 36, where it says, "Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I, the Lord, build the ruined places and plant that which was desolate.
I, the Lord, have spoken it," and then I love this, "and I will do it." Like, I love the Lord's like, "Oh, I will do it. You watch." Mm-hmm. Yeah. "I will do it." Yep. "I will rebuild. I will build the ruined places." And so there's twofold imagery right there. He's literally talking about the temple. "I will build the ruined temple and rebuild the walls," all of that.
But then I love that with just me, how often in my life I've been a ruined place. And the Lord's like, "I will build it. I will help you. I will do it. Just turn to me," what Sharon shared at the beginning. "Just turn to me, and we'll make this happen." And so in the next segment, we're gonna talk about the ruined place that He's going to build, and we're gonna give you the chapters that, that talk all about this incredible place.
We'll do that next.
[01:04:05] Segment 6
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This makes me so happy 'cause I just learned that Marcia works in the Las Vegas temple. So I have two temple workers here on this episode, Sharon and Marcia, which is gonna make this segment even better. So here's what you wanna know. Fun fact about Ezekiel, and we read this at the very beginning, that his dad's name was Bari, and that he came from a priestly family.
Now, some scholars think that not only did he come from a priestly family, that it was, but it's also very likely Ezekiel may have been a temple worker because he was so familiar with temple wording and all of the things that took place in the temple. And so when the Lord in the last segment says, "I will build the ruined places," one of the things he's going to build is a new temple, and that's what the people were planning on, and we're planning on it.
So what you wanna know is from Ezekiel Chapter 40 all the way to 47 is Ezekiel's temple vision. He has a vision of the temple that will be rebuilt in Jerusalem, and it's such a fun topic to talk about. And he receives in detail what this temple's going to look like and the parameters and what's going to be inside the temple, so specific to someone who has spent time in the temple, and he will rebuild it.
And one of the places we wanna go to is Ezekiel 47. Part of this vision, he talks about some important waters. So if you'll turn to Ezekiel Chapter 47 And we're gonna just look at verse 1 where he starts out the next phase of his vision. And this vision starts with verse 1. And Marcia, can you read that for us?
Mm-hmm. "Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under, from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar." Now, in this vision, these [01:06:00] waters will run from the temple all the way down to the Dead Sea, and it will heal the Dead Sea so that fish and everything can be, can
Fish can live in the water, and even specifically look at verse 7. "Trees on the one side and on the other," trees will grow. Now, have either of you been to the Dead Sea? I have not. I have. Sharon, tell us what's the Dead Sea's like for people who haven't been there. It's, uh, ugly. And, and- There's no trees around it, I'll tell you that
no trees around it. And, um, nothing grows in it, and you can't sink in it. It's like the Great Salt Lake, only more salty. It, it's just a, a, a huge- Yeah ... puddle of salt and mud and s- sinking. You can't sink. Yes. You cannot sink. It's the most fun thing we tried when we went there as a family. Uh, we tried ... You can't, you literally just float the entire time, there's so much salt in it.
What I thought was interesting is that they believe the mud at the base of the Dead Sea has healing properties. Mm-hmm. So when you go there, people have rubbed the mud all over their arms and chest- Mm-hmm ... and face. We did that. We absolutely did that. And whether or not it's true, I don't know, but we just know nothing can live.
And so here in this vision he's seeing, wait, there are waters that come forth from the temple that then go, and now it's, the water's so pure anything can live in it and trees can also grow by it. And then we have more imagery of these trees. Go to verse 12, and Sharon, can you please read verse 12? "And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine."
Okay, you two temple workers. Mm. What's this vision really about? What is the Ezekiel trying to teach us with the waters and the trees and temple work? So I, I, I ... For me, temple work is- It's, to me, it's sacred. Um, I have had a love for the temple since ni- I was nine years old and I got to attend the dedication of the Jordan River Temple inside the Jordan River Temple.
Um- Right. And- Yeah ... um, we used to, we used to only be able to go twice a year. Our s- our ward was signed twice a year. We'd go at 5:00 in the morning before school started and I always wanted to be there. I, I just have always loved the temple and, um, E- every time I go, there's, there's just a different healing experience.
It, it's ... And I don't even think half the time I realize [01:09:00] it, but I, I feel better. And as I have served in the temple for the last year and a half, my knowledge of the temple and has just grown so, so much. And I think that that's one of the great things right now. They're encouraging all of our young adults to go serve as ordinance workers or temple workers before they go on their missions.
And even if it's for two months, they're like, "We don't..." Or at least in Las Vegas, they're like, "We don't care. Come. We wanna teach you about the temple. We're, we want you to have that foundation." And you, uh, just like in any other thing, you learn more as you teach and as you do than just sitting there. Mm.
Um, and, and so to me, the opportunity to serve in the temple is one of the, the best experiences of, of my life. And I look forward to Thursdays, and we serve on Thursdays and every other Saturday, and I, I can't ... I'm so excited. I can't wait. I'm like, "Oh, it's Thursday. We get, I get to go to the temple and serve and help people on both sides of the veil."
Mm-hmm. But I also get to learn and be healed. Great. Oh, fascinating when you said you, you get to learn and then be healed. Like, these rushing waters that come forth from the temple for you is learning about Him and being healed. Yeah. Isn't that interesting? Healing our Dead Sea. Huh. Yeah. Sharon. I was thinking along those lines as well, Tammy.
Um, I used to dread going to the temple. I thought it was boring. I thought it was repetitious. I didn't like all the noise. I didn't like the routine. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. And then I was called to work in the temple. And I learned what the temple is all about. I learned that it's His house. I learned that it's the center of the universe.
I learned that it's the connection between us and heaven. And I learned that you have to live by the Spirit when you work in the temple because every day is different. Every hour is different. Every person you come in contact with is different, and you have to adjust to that person's needs. You have to, you have to be almost in that other person's shoes in order for them to appreciate what they have and what they're doing in the temple.
And so I learned to look at each individual, either at the veil, at the baptismal font, in sealings, wherever we were, initiatory. To look at that person and try to respond to her in a way that she would feel loved and she would feel in the house of the Lord. And then when I was released from the temple and I was able to take family names [01:12:00] I then concentrated on the person who was on that piece of paper, and I would say to the person, "Okay, this is very important.
You're going to go through initiatory now, and this is what they're gonna do, and you need to pay attention, 'cause you're gonna have to answer some questions." Then, uh, we did that with washing and anointing and the clothing. I'd say, "Okay, now you've been clothed." In my head, I was talking all the time to this person on my card.
And the working the temple taught me to love the people I've never seen who were born in 1652, not knowing his or her back- or her background, and then sealing not knowing his or her backgr- anyway, to appreciate the person and the spirit. A- and I highly recommend that people work in the temple, even if it's for six months, even if it's for a year, because you will understand, I think, Marcia, more fully what the messages are, what- Mm-hmm
what the blessings are. The world is a mess, and we are in a holy place. That, that's a miracle. Yeah. Yeah. It's a miracle that we're in a holy place and the world's going to hell in a handbasket. I mean, it's just- I mean, it's just, it, it's just... Well, I am, like you, Marcia, I am a temple believer. I am a temple lover.
I'm a temple goer. And I think I'd rather go there than sacrament meeting. Wow. We don't hear any speeches. We don't hear any- ... y- y- you know, none of that stuff. We just do the work. Just do the work. We just do the work. Do the work. Yeah. It's so important, and it's so beautiful. The blessings are so amazing.
Let me ask you this. What do you think the trees are? Us. Why would... I'm, w- we're, w- we leave, we're the waters, and then we go out, and we, it's not us, it's, we teach people, and they grow. They, the teach-- people who don't know about the gos- Th- this is a metaphor, and this is my understanding. Of course, it's not gonna be this- Yeah
but it's how I put it together. That I'm rushing forth out of the temple with the powers of whatever. I'm rushing out, and I'm going to water this tree, who's Sister Jones, who's never heard the gospel. But I'm going to bring her into the gospel, and she's gonna become a beautiful, flourishing tree that gives fruit and gives meat, and her meat will then...
So it's a- Mm-hmm ... it's a metaphor for those of us who have the knowledge and the love to share it with those other people. Wow. I don't know. Marcia, reading? So, um, one of the things Sharon was talking and one of the things I was thinking about is as the opportunity to be a temple worker, [01:15:00] especially in initiatory, those blessings come to my mind as- Mm-hmm
in different situations. Uh-huh. Yeah. And so I'll be, I'll hear the words of those amazing blessings in the initiatory- Uh-huh ... and, and they help in so many different aspects of life, and, and we talk about strength. The, the blessings in the initiatory give us so much strength and so much of God's power because they're, they're just for us, right?
It, and they're, they're spiritual blessings for our physical bodies. And, and the, the last part where we are taught about the garment of the holy priesthood, um, that is- Oh, yeah ... that is where I get the most emotional out of anywhere in the temple is- Mm-hmm ... as I'm, I'm saying those words- Yeah ... about the power that, that keeping those covenants will provide for us.
Yeah. It's, it's amazing. When, when I can't sleep at night, which is every night, I go over, I go over the, the veil ordinances, I go over the initiatory ordinances, I go over- Wow ... and I, I go over them again and again until I fall asleep. They are my comfort. Mm-hmm. And- And I do the same as you do, out and about, wherever I am, and I think- So many circumstances arise when my brain goes back to the temple, back to the temple, back to the temple Yeah.
And then th- to watch others, um, either do the work for themselves or for especially close family members is so powerful. Um, I- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm ... I, a couple weeks ago I was in the temple, and a, a sister had been at the temple all day, and she had done the work for her mother and her sister. And when you talk about close relationship- Hmm
right? And she was glowing. I mean, just like I th- she probably floated out of the temple. She just- ... was so glowing, and just the opportunity and joy that she had to be able to do and provide those saving ordinances for people that she d- she knew and loved. A lot of times we take people's names, we take
'Cause they're not just names, they are people. They're people. Yeah. We take people to the temple, and we don't know them, and we don't know if- Hmm ... they're going to accept it or not accept it. Right. But I've had lots of experiences, especially initiatory, where sisters have walked out after doing temple names and just- Mm-hmm
bawling, and they're like- Mm-hmm ... "That sister," and they'll point to the name of the sister they're talking about, like, "She accepted." "The Holy Ghost testified to me that she accepted." Yeah. Huh. And, and those are the type of experiences that give us strength. It helps us to know that God sees us. He sees them That is my favorite thing about the Plan of [01:18:00] Salvation.
When anyone says, "What's your favorite thing about the gospel of Jesus Christ?" I'm like, "It's the Plan of Salvation." I remember being 14 years old sitting in seminary and them talking about- and I'm like, "Whoa, wait, why haven't we been talking- ... about this in Sunday school?" Right? Primary. Why isn't there a song about this?
Right. Right. I'm like, "This is so cool." And, and I love the Plan of Salvation. It's what gives us hope. And to me, the temple is hope. Mm-hmm. It's hope. Yeah. And when we go in, we can truly feel the love of our Heavenly Father and our Savior. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I think that's why when you go back to verse 12, one of the things I love about that is attending the temple, and those of us who work in the temple or go and just do any kind of work in the temple, I love how it says, "Whose leaves shall not fade."
I think that is a beautiful promise for attending- Yes, it is ... the temple. Your leaves will not fade. Mm-hmm. Just keep going, fulfilling the prophecy. So this is a prophecy of the temple that will be built eventually someday, and it's the temples that exist today. So thank you. Thank you to both of you. We're done.
That's the end. You guys were great. Wow. Sharon does a great job. I'm certainly, I'm certainly glad that we, that we did this segment. Yes. Uh, I mean, I've learned so much from Ezekiel. Wow. Sharon, me then. Gather your thoughts. What's your takeaway? Well- What's your eternal truth? It, it's con- it, it's confirming and enhancing and a witness that I'm on the right track- Mm-hmm
that, that temples are significant, prophets, seers, and revelators tell the truth. God is at the helm. I mean, it's just the whole thing. The, the, the, that he went through so much and came up with even mo- I mean, what he came up with, what the Lord told him to say, and he said it, I'm so glad he said it. Yeah.
So it, it's the entire Book of Ezekiel I think that's just confirming, enhancing. Mm-hmm. Um, it's, um, and the Lord's- Constancy Yeah and his love. It's just off the charts. Amen, sister. Out of the, out of the realm of understanding sometimes. Absolutely. Wow. Thank you, Sharon. Mm-hmm. Great. Great takeaway. What about you, Marcia?
What's your eternal truth or takeaway? I, I really think it's, it's God's love. He loves us, um, and, and his relentless pursuit of the Israelites, he is in the- Mm-hmm ... same relentless pursuit of us. Yeah. He wants us to return, and I think [01:21:00] growing up, I kind of felt like, um, it was like only a very few people are gonna get in there, and so you better be the best that you can, and that's not the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The gospel- No ... of Jesus Christ is if you want to be here, you will be here. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Great. Oh- Yeah ... good stuff. For me, it was the two moments where I really felt the spirit so strongly. Um, Marcia, I loved it when you pointed out that he calls us mountains of Israel. Mm-hmm. I'd never seen that before.
That was really cool. What a great way to, to do that. And again, I do love how you just started out by saying that it's mission wording. If every mission call came with the same wording to Ezekiel, that was good. And, uh, Sharon, when you just called out help and you have, had the, the thought keep your covenants, keep the commandments, and everything will be all right.
Mm-hmm. I needed that, so thank you. Thank you for your comments. Thank you to both of you. Yeah. What a fun discussion. Well, what eternal truth did you learn? What struck you from this episode? 'Cause that was such a great discussion. Marcia, Sharon, I love you guys. That was great. Join us on Facebook or on Instagram and share what you have learned, and comment on the post that relates to this lesson.
You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday, and go there anyway. It's where we're gonna have links to all the references and a transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living.
It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our perfect study group participants were Marcia Peterson Blake and Sharon Staples. And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.
Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week, and please remember, you beautiful trees, that you are God's favorite.