The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What do you think of when you hear the word cover or covers? Now, I immediately think of winter. I'm in my bed with my window cracked open just a little bit, and I have this soft billowy down comforter or blanket just covering me. Oh, it's so comfy. I can also think of times in my life when I was short on cash and a friend would cover me when the bill came.
You know, I asked my brother in law who's in law enforcement, this question, and it brought on a whole new meaning to him. This word is a matter of life or death. He said to me, when I'm in a sticky situation and need extra eyes, I yell, cover me. The word cover is significant when it comes to our discussion of the come follow me lesson for this week, which is all about Easter and no.
We are not going to be discussing how to cover your Easter eggs with that. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living where we take the come follow me lesson for the week. And we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall.
Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description that will explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study. Just like my friend, DeeDee and Steve Abaroa. They've been guests on the podcast. But I'm doing a special shout out right now because they are in the thick of it down in Mesa, Arizona, doing the Easter pageant.
And so this is a special shout out to over 570 people who make up the cast and crew of this amazing Easter pageant that they put on every year. Good luck, you guys. I'm so proud of you. And one of these days I'm going to make it to the pageant. I promise. Now, another incredible thing, and my favorite thing about this study group.
Is each week we're joined by two of my friends. So it's always a little bit different each week, but today you guys, today we've got five friends. You heard that, right? I have invited five guests to share personal stories that connect to the word cover. Are you so intrigued? I know you're intrigued, you're dying to know what this word cover has to do with Easter and I cannot be more thrilled.
But if you want to know more about my guests today, you can find pictures and bios about them in our show notes, which are at LDS living. com slash Sunday on Monday. So go there. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to grab your scriptures and whether you are studying alone with family or friends, let's dig in together to the come follow me lesson for Easter.
So what did you think of when you heard the word cover? Now, I asked that question because it has everything to do with Easter. One of the main points in this week's Easter lesson, if you scroll down, you're going to find it. And it says, it could be said that the book of Mormon is an account of the people who changed.
Because of the atonement of Jesus Christ. And you know what? That struck me. I thought you're so right. So many people have been changed because of the atonement of Jesus Christ. So then it kind of had me thinking, and I just, I just spiraled into this awesome study of the word atonement. A common way that we interpret the word atonement is at one.
And it is true that we become at one with Christ and he in turn becomes at one with us. When we turn to him in our afflictions, but back in 1996, our prophet today, president Russell M. Nelson taught this in a conference address. He said, quote, rich meaning is found in the study of the word atonement in the Semitic languages of old Testament times.
In Hebrew, the basic word for atonement is kaphar. A verb that means to cover or to forgive. Closely related is the Aramaic and Arabic word kafat, meaning a close embrace. No doubt related to the Egyptian ritual embrace. References to that embrace are evident in the Book of Mormon. One states that, The Lord hath redeemed my soul.
I have beheld his glory. I am encircled about eternally in the arms of his love. Another proffers the glorious hope of being classed in the arms of Jesus unquote. So my question for all of us today and throughout this Easter week is, how has the atonement of Jesus Christ Now, Mosiah chapter three, verse seven and Alma chapter seven, verses 11 through 12 are wonderful scripture references that teach us some of the ways that we are covered by our savior.
In fact, go there in your scriptures, highlight them, mark them, put stars all around them. You're going to want to remember these forever, especially if you ever teach anything about Jesus Christ. These are my go to scriptures. So Mosiah chapter three, verse seven, here's what it says. And lo, he shall suffer temptations and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death.
For behold, blood cometh from every poor, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people. And then Alma chapter seven, verse 11 through 12 says this, and he shall go forth suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind. And this, that the word might be fulfilled, which saith.
He will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people, and he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death, which bind his people. And he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh.
How to sucker his people according to their infirmities. So I've invited five guests for this episode to share with us how the atonement of Jesus Christ has covered them or how they have been changed because of this remarkable gift from our Savior.
Segment 2
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[00:05:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I am thrilled to introduce you to our guest. It is Brother Jan Newman. Hello, Brother Newman. How are you?
[00:05:56] Jan Newman: Hi, Tammy. It is so good to see you again.
[00:05:59] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, we go back. We did a cool little thing for BYU together years ago, and that's when I knew Jan was my people. He said so many cool comments that I thought, Oh, he gets it.
And so I just thought he'd be the perfect person to help us discuss this word today. Brother Newman, before we get started today, will you tell us a little bit about yourself?
[00:06:18] Jan Newman: Sure. Well, I was born in Idaho in a little town called Jerome, I know, and then I went from there to even a smaller town called Overton, Nevada, down by Las Vegas, and, uh, grew up there.
And, uh, it was just a lovely place to, uh, learn and grow as a, as a young man. And then I served a mission in the Belgium Brussels mission and got to learn French, which was awesome. From my admission, I went to BYU and studied French and computer science. I taught entry level French classes there. And uh, anyway, my wife and I, we lived here in the South Valley, South Utah Valley.
Lived in Elk Ridge for about 32 years. Recently, we just built a home in the county between Pearson and Salem. And we just love it down here. We have six kids and 18 grandkids and they all live within about 15 minutes of us. So it's not even controlled chaos. It's just chaos when they all show up at the same time.
[00:07:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I bet it is. I bet you love, and I'm sure you and your wife love the chaos.
[00:07:19] Jan Newman: Yeah, it's pretty awesome.
[00:07:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So fun. Well, and something else really cool about brother Newman is his calling. So brother Newman is the second counselor in the general Sunday school presidency, and he oversees the come follow me program.
His goal and his mission in his calling is to get everyone into the scriptures and to just. Love the scriptures. And so when we met and this episode came up, I just knew like we have to have brother Newman because he loves Jesus and you know, when you meet him, you know that he loves Jesus Christ and he loves the scriptures.
And so I'm really looking forward to our discussion about this word cover. So I just want to know right out of the gates when you heard the word cover, what do you think of?
[00:08:03] Jan Newman: You know, I think of kind of two words come to my mind. The first one is protection. And the second one is healing. You know, Tammy, when we did the come follow up episode together and we were talking about Moses and going to the Mount and everything, and you did it, you said something that it's always just stuck with me and you're probably surprised that I didn't bring this up.
[00:08:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I am.
[00:08:26] Jan Newman: You talked about the tent of Jethro. Do you remember that? Yes. And how, and how They don't just build different tents. They just kind of add on to them as people come to join them. And it was a protection for them. And this, the tent symbolizes protection. And as we go into Isaiah, he talks about the tent and expanding the tent and the covering and securing the stakes, which we know what that means in the latter days.
Is the tent of the kingdom of God gets extended way beyond what we see on our local stake, but the entire world. And, uh, I think that's a very powerful notion to think about that. It was certainly done in the ancient times when Moses was, uh, here on the earth and this whole concept with Jethro and the tent and protection.
And then Isaiah prophesying about it and even talks about Dr. Covinson. And it, it talks about it being a refuge from the storm and, um, I, I love that. The temples provide protection and they cover us. I'll tell you a little story in the peace and temple. Uh, there's something there that's really symbolic that I love and brother Tom Holman who did the stained glass windows there, he, he took me in before the temple was dedicated and we looked at it.
He said, I want to show you something. you look at all the windows on the outside edges of the temple. All of the leaves point downwards and I go, Oh, shouldn't they point upwards? And he goes, my whole thought was the temple is the tree of life. And as you look out through the windows, you see the branches and the leaves descending that provide a covering.
And a protection for everybody there. And I still love that analogy.
[00:10:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I do too. Oh, now I can't wait to go and notice that at the Payson temple. I've never noticed that. And I went to the, I've been there before. So that is brilliant. I thank you for sharing that. So this idea of covering then is so powerful when we connect it to the atonement of Jesus Christ.
And so what is so incredible about this idea is I have, as you know, I have asked you to come and talk to us about. How has the atonement of Jesus Christ covered you personally? Would you be willing to share a story about that?
[00:11:01] Jan Newman: Sure. And it's, it's just an ongoing story. It's, it's, I don't know that I look at a single event in my life and just say, that's it.
Uh, it's an ongoing thing. And I hope The Atonement of Jesus Christ is an ongoing thing that we learn of, we participate in, and we receive the blessings of our entire lives. The, when you think about the one thing that we do every week that points us to the Atonement of Jesus Christ is the sacrament. And as we sit there, we think about.
what the Savior did for us. And so I love the fact that no more than seven days go by that our life is not out of whack so far that we can't repent and turn to the Savior. And I, I, I love the verse in the Book of Mormon that talks about in Ether 12, 27, where it says, I give, I give unto men No weaknesses, but weakness.
Kind of our Our temporal state here upon the earth, the natural man, he says something just beautiful. He just says, and my grace is sufficient for all who will humble themselves and come unto me. And I always, I, there was a time when I thought, I looked at that word grace and I go, that just seems out of place here.
What does grace have to do with that? That is grace is sufficient. And then I really learned. the word, what the word grace means. If you go to the Bible dictionary, there's a beautiful description of that, and I'll just give you one little part. The meaning of the word it says is divine means of help and strength.
Now think about that in terms of that verse we just talked about. My divine means of help and strength is sufficient for all who will come unto me. It's sufficient. It's all we need. And if we have faith and trust in the Savior and His power, then that's all we need. We really don't need anything else as we trust in Him.
The great blessing and the power of the Atonement in our lives can renew us and cover us as we, as you just described in just a beautiful way.
[00:13:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Would you mind, or would you be willing to share, what is a weakness that you've needed to use the atonement of Jesus Christ for?
[00:13:39] Jan Newman: Yeah, I think, I think the one thing that I've experienced over life is just being focused and remembering the Savior in this world of commotion and worldliness.
I think, I think it's so easy to get caught up in the world, and that's been a weakness for me. There's so many things that pull and tug at you. And you have to find a way that you can get through the worldliness because it can, and I've been in, I've been in business and technology my entire career for 35 plus years now.
And if there's anything that is kind of worldly and kind of can take you that way, it's technology. And we see that today. Uh, and so I think one of the weaknesses that I've had to deal with is, is a lot is aligned those things to pull me away from maybe the things that are important and other things, not just technology, but life in general and being able to rewind and say, and really go into the Lord and say, gosh, I realized that this is a problem.
This is something I need your divine means of help and strength. And I've found is if you'll go to the Lord. And acknowledge to Him where that is, what that is for you, it, uh, it just changes everything for you. And you feel the power and protection, the covering, if that is at work, of the Atonement literally coming and protecting you from the heat of the day.
[00:15:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What does that sound like? What are the words that come out of your mouth when you're asking for that protection for somebody who doesn't even know where to begin or how to get help?
[00:15:17] Jan Newman: It's just mine. And whenever I talk about things that you can do, like for come follow me, one of these I always say is, if you've seen one way of doing come follow me.
You've seen one way of doing, come follow me. There's no one right way. Right. I think it's members. We always think there's only one, but I will just, here's what, here's kind of what comes out of my mouth when I go a little perfect. I just basically say, Emily, father, gosh, this is hard for me. And it's a conversation.
It's not like President Nelson says, we've got to get away from laundry list. I do this, this, this, and this just talk to him and my father, this is really becoming challenging for me. And I don't want this to be part of my life. Will you help me? Through the grace of thy son, will you help me? I will do everything on my part that I can, and I know I won't be perfect and I'll probably fall 10 more times before and maybe even 70 times.
But the Lord, the Lord is not, he's not focused on a timeframe. He's taught, he's focused on a result, which is our heart changes because there are times when I've absolutely been just embarrassed to tell him. What are my weaknesses? I'm like, come on, you gotta be better than this. But when you can get beyond that and have so much faith and trust in the Lord, the fact that he already knows is anyway, it is all about being humble, having a broken heart and a contrite spirit and really running to him for help.
And when you do that, it's game changer.
[00:17:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Okay. I have one final question then. So I want you to sit back. Okay. Sit back in your chair and relax. Here's my question. I want you to think back. It's you and your beautiful wife, Lucia. You're starting out. You're married. You're having children and you're growing this beautiful family of six children.
And I want to know in the thick of life and you're trying to make ends meet and you're, you're just doing all you can to provide for your family and you're noticing your weakness that you talked about. And as an entrepreneur, that's easy because it's hard to be an entrepreneur. You have to get, be a go getter.
And that has to be your focus is what's next. What's around the corner. What would modern day brother Newman today? What would you say to young Jan Newman, who's just starting out when it comes to his relationship with Jesus Christ? What would your advice be to him?
[00:17:52] Jan Newman: I think the thing I would tell myself is don't sweat the details, have faith that things will be okay.
One of the things that my wife says all the time, which I love, and she said this from the beginning of our marriage is it's going to be okay. It's going to work out. And I love what President Nelson, one of the greatest things he's ever taught us is think And I think if I would have thought a little more in that regard, when I was younger and dealing with some of the really challenging things, our business and family and church colleagues and everything, it would be, don't get bogged down.
In the minimal things of life, or as I, we've heard said many times, don't get caught up in the thick of thin things.
[00:18:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, no, I really like that. I, for me, I felt a physical, I had a visceral reaction to your words, like just this sigh. I think I felt, I think I heard an audible sigh for everyone who heard you say that just like he's so right.
That was brilliant. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and your words and for being willing to be vulnerable. I really appreciate that. And especially for explaining to us how the atonement of Jesus Christ has covered you. And I think you beautifully did that. So thanks, Brother Newman.
[00:19:12] Jan Newman: You're welcome. Tammy. It is always great to be with you. And I would just tell everybody to just have faith in Jesus Christ and you can get through it.
[00:19:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Amen. I will second that. What he said is absolutely true. And I too have seen that in my life with the savior Jesus Christ. You really can get through anything.
Segment 3
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[00:19:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So about two weeks ago, my friend, Crystaleen in the ward who we met when she first moved in, it was my favorite meeting ever of you because we were in relief society. And you raised your hand, you're like, I am new in this ward and I don't know anybody. And I was like, you can be my friend. Come to mom camp.
[00:19:55] Crystaleen Harris: I love that.
[00:19:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You're like, I'm in. And so she has not come to mom camp yet because she's also has more than just little kids. She's in the thick of it with kids and teenagers, but I'm going to get you one of these years to mom camp. I would love that. But two weeks ago, Crystaleen gave a talk first time she's ever spoken in the ward and I was not prepared for what I heard.
And after she shared her experience, I was sobbing and then I tried to give some buffer time so it didn't seem like I was stalking her, but I, like, I could not contain myself. And I reached out and said, will you please share your story on the podcast?
[00:20:28] Crystaleen Harris: I actually couldn't even look at you in Sacrament Meeting because I wasn't holding it together very well anyway. And I would look out there and see a few people crying. I was like, Oh, I can't look at you guys.
[00:20:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It was. We were all sobbing. And so I am thrilled. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being willing to share.
Oh. All right. So Crystaleen, I'm just going to let you go.
Just hit it. Tell us the story that you told in sacrament meeting and we're going to let everybody just hear your story. About how the atonement of Jesus Christ covered you.
[00:20:57] Crystaleen Harris: Perfect. So about 10 years ago, I, I used the car crash analogy and I actually really liked that because most people have been like in a fender bender or a car crash, you know, that are, you know, have their driver's license.
[00:21:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.
[00:21:10] Crystaleen Harris: Anyway, I kind of use that analogy and I really like it because, um, I was just, you know, in my little. Car driving along. I had my diet coke and my chocolate covered cinnamon bears, which are my favorite all time treat. And I was in my lane. We call life right? And I'm just going along. And, uh, just minding my own business.
And all of a sudden I was, uh, hit on the side and I feel like it kind of like spun my car, which was my life just totally out of control. And, um, what had happened was I. I actually received a phone call from someone and, and she, uh, said that she had an encounter with my then husband, um, and felt like the information that she had was something that I needed to hear.
And she said, Hey, uh, I am kind of some news that I'm not sure if you're aware of, but I feel really inspired to call you. And so she shared kind of some things that she had witnessed. Um, and I was blown away. I was not prepared for that at all. And, uh, it was. It was come to my attention, it had come to my attention that there were some things going on in my marriage after that phone call that, um, were, you know, not conducive to marriage.
And, uh, I was really struggling and I decided that I was going to make a goal to go to the temple every week. And I had been going to the temple probably monthly, but I changed that and I was going to go every week to really see if I could bring more of the spirit into my home, into my marriage, um, to try and fix some of the things that were going on.
[00:22:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Now, how long have you been married up to this point?
[00:22:52] Crystaleen Harris: So I had been married for 20 years.
[00:22:54] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. And do you have kids?
[00:22:57] Crystaleen Harris: Yeah. So we actually had four daughters together and uh, the youngest at the time was nine. And then my oldest was actually in college. Um, so we have like a little bit of a space between the girls, um, they were, and, So, uh, yeah, we had been married almost 20 years.
So I decided that I was going to make a goal to go to the temple every week, and I had actually reached out to my bishop and just said, um, hey, this is going on. I found this out. And, um, can you help me, like, can you guide me? I don't know what to do. I didn't know anybody else that had really ever been in my situation that I felt comfortable reaching out to.
Um, I'm, I'm a pretty private person. So this podcast is a little out there for me. Um, I don't ever share this story. So, uh, bear with me, but, um, so I decided I was gonna go to the temple and I had some miraculous things happen at the temple. Later on that I've actually never spoken about either, but I'm going to keep those private.
Um, and so my bishop was like, Hey, that's a great start. Let's get going there. So I started to go to the temple every week. And honestly, I was getting really frustrated because I wasn't seeing. at all. In fact, to be honest, things were getting worse. And I was sort of feeling overwhelmed and um, I would get in my shower at night and I would cry so that no one else could see.
And um, I was trying really hard to be strong for my girls, but I didn't have sort of the support that I. Thought I would have. And so, um, my bishop became a really good confidant of mine.
[00:24:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Can I ask when you were attending the temple, what did you, what were your hopes? What did you think or hope would happen?
[00:24:41] Crystaleen Harris: So I'll be honest with you. Like I was going to the temple with the prayer and the hope in mind. And I know this might sound silly, but I really genuinely had the faith. That my then current husband could have an Alma the younger experience and that was really what I wanted. I wanted that change. And I was praying for that experience.
I was going to the temple, hoping that something miraculous would happen on his end.
[00:25:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.
[00:25:09] Crystaleen Harris: Um, and it didn't. And I was. I really had the faith that that could happen, and so I was sort of then struggling a little bit myself, and um, I had a meeting with my bishop, and I pulled up to the church house, and I sat in my car, and I cried, because I was feeling like a total failure.
I was feeling completely alone. I felt unloved and unworthy, and I was really in the depths of despair, and I had never felt like that before. Um, and I didn't want to go into that meeting. I felt like I was doing everything that I could and what possibly could the bishop do that I wasn't already doing.
And I, uh, sat there for a minute. And I actually turned my car off and turned it back on because I was going to drive away and I didn't, and I'm so grateful that I didn't. So I walked into that meeting and I shared how I was feeling and it was kind of the first time that I really like broke down and was like, look, I am, I'm struggling bad.
And I shared kind of how I was feeling and he said. He actually sat there for a minute and didn't say anything. And I was like, Oh, okay, this is a little awkward now. And, uh, he finally said, you know, you, you need to use the atonement. And I thought, are you crazy? Like, did you not hear what I just said? Like, I don't really deem the atonement right now, which obviously I did. We all need it, but No, but I would have thought the same thing. Like,
[00:26:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I'm not the one. Yeah, like, this isn't about me. Right, yeah. I'm here because my husband is messing up.
[00:26:56] Crystaleen Harris: Yeah, so I said, Yeah, so I said, Um, what? And he said, you need to use the healing side of the atonement. And up until that point in my life, I mean, I was in my thirties when this happened.
I, uh, I had never really used that side of the atonement. I had always, you know, used more of the repentance side and we kind of chatted a little bit and I left that. Meeting with him with a whole new perspective on the atonement and the use of it just from chatting with him. And so I, uh, made a decision that I was going to change my prayers and that was really hard for me because.
I had the feeling that changing my prayers probably wouldn't change my marriage outcome, which is what I had been praying for, um, but it was going to change me. And so I left that meeting and I decided that I was going to pray for a couple things specifically. And my first and foremost was for my daughters, um, because they were really struggling too.
And I had been praying for them, but I was, I had changed my prayers for both of us. For all of all five of us, and I prayed for them, they would have the strength to continue in the gospel. Uh, and then I prayed for myself specifically that I would not hate my then current husband and, uh, that I would be able to let the atonement heal me.
And I would like to say that, uh, things turned around and that my marriage was great, but, um, I actually ended up getting divorced about 6 months later. But, um, It didn't change overnight and it took a lot of work and a lot of prayers, but I can honestly say that 10 years later, I'm sitting here and I'm saying that my now ex husband is one of my dearest friends.
Um, we communicate a lot and, uh, and he's become a really good friend of mine. And I have been able to help him through some hard times in his life. And, uh, it's been really good for both of us and for our kids and the co parenting that happens. And that's all been through the Atonement. And I also think that, uh, through the healing power of the Atonement that I've been able to love myself on a whole new level.
And I've also been able to love my now husband, who is such a fantastic guy, um, in a way that I don't know that would have been possible without that healing that came from the Atonement. So I'm, I'm really grateful that I walked into the Bishop's office that night and I didn't turn around and drive my car away.
Um, which makes me wonder if, you know, maybe that was a little bit of Satan saying, Hey, look like you. You are unworthy and unloved and, you know, all those things. So I'm really grateful that my Bishop had the foresight, um, to say, Hey, you, you need the atonement in a different way than you've ever thought of.
Um, anyway, and so now I'm going to fast forward to, uh, the current, which, so about 10 years after my divorce, um, once again, going along in life and life is good and I'm remarried. Um, we have cute little twin boys together that are turning six on Monday, which is so crazy.
[00:30:53] Tammy Uzelac Hall: They're so cute. Yes.
[00:30:55] Crystaleen Harris: And my girls are grown and I have grandkids now and it's, you know, life is going good.
And, um, it was the summer of 2022 and I actually had two daughters that were going to be getting married one in May and one in September. And so it's supposed to be this like happy, joyous time and, and it was, and, uh, in between the weddings, I got the May wedding done. And, uh, in between the weddings, I had found a lump in my right breast and, uh, I was terrified to say the least.
So I called and made an appointment and went in and had a mammogram and an ultrasound done and. Um, they sent me home and they said, Hey, everything looks great. And I got home and I told my husband, I said, I don't feel good about that answer. Something is wrong. And I called back and I was a little more persistent.
Um, come to, like everything came full circle and I ended up calling, uh, actually the CEO of one of the hospitals because I just couldn't get anybody to take me serious. And uh, he got me in two days later for a breast MRI and that came back as suspicious. So I called, I went and had a biopsy done and I was waiting for my biopsy results.
And, uh, this was on a Monday I had my biopsy and they said within five to seven days, I would have my, my results and Friday came and no results. And of course, I was like, Oh, I've got to go through the weekend. And I just kept thinking
that my results weren't going to be what I was hoping. And my little twin, Hayes, said to me one night, he said, Mom, you're not going to die. And
And I know it sounds really dumb, but I was really comforted, actually, by that. And, uh, Monday came around. And I was still waiting for results. And 4 o'clock came, and I still hadn't heard anything. At about 4. 30, my phone rang. And it was the hospital and so I took my phone and I walked out to the back porch and the doctor said, um, I have some bad news.
You have cancer and it has spread to your lymph nodes. And I don't remember any more of the conversation. It was probably five minutes long, but I just kept thinking I have cancer. And, uh, I hung up my phone, and I called a really dear friend of mine,
and I actually couldn't even get any words out. And she said, I'll be over in five minutes.
And, uh, I walked in. The kitchen and my husband was standing there and I just looked at him and I said, it's not good. And, uh, I couldn't say the word cancer. It was really, really something that, that had been not my surprise because I kind of knew, but it was hard to hear that word. Yeah. Yeah. And so my friend got there and we chatted for a minute and, and I said, okay, I need to get my girls together and tell my girls.
And so she left and I gathered all my girls that night and told them. And that was a discussion that I hope no one ever has to have
because it was really hard to watch my kids suffer fearing that their mom had cancer.
And later that night, my friend and her husband returned and, uh, they were going to give me a blessing. And during this blessing, before the blessing, I just kept thinking, please let this be a misdiagnosis. Please let me go in because I had to go have some more tests that later on that week. And I said, you know, in my heart, I was thinking, please let it be that it's not as bad or that maybe it was a misdiagnosis.
And that was, you know, I was hoping for like the healing really to come in the blessing. And my husband, um, laid his hands on my head and, uh, Proceeded to give me a blessing. And quite frankly, I didn't feel anything. I didn't feel like I had heard anything that I wanted, which was so wrong, right? Because the Lord knows what I needed.
But for me personally, I really was hoping to hear other things that weren't in that blessing. And, uh, I know that was selfish year, you know, a few years later now, I know that. So they got done with my blessing and, uh, my husband's friend, Miko, said, your turn Spence, who is my husband. And the selfish part of me hadn't even thought that he needed help as well.
And so he sat down and I immediately felt calm and during his blessing, I had it come back to me. That I would once again. Be able to feel the healing power of the atonement through this trial and come to love that side of the atonement, even more than I had 10 years previously. And, uh, I would like to say that I was healed from that blessing and I was in a way, right?
Like for the atonement, but the physical part of my trial was not healed. And I, um, Went through a really long year, a lot of chemo treatments and a lot of radiation and I'm still fighting a battle. I take daily chemo. It's really hard. Um, but I've been able to use the atonement again in the healing power.
And uh, one of the quotes that I found that I absolutely love, uh, was actually from Dallin H. Oaks. And he said, if your faith and prayers. And the power of the priesthood do not heal you from an affliction, the power of the atonement will surely give you the strength to bear the burden. And I just love that because for my own personal life and my own story, that has been the case for me.
And I don't, if I can say anything to anyone that's struggling, um, and it doesn't even have to be. Uh, as you know, crazy as cancer or divorce, but just even small things in life, uh, like use the healing side of the atonement. It doesn't, it's not just for repentance. And I think sometimes we forget that, but there really is power in the Atonement that is all encompassing, like you said.
You know, it is infinite. It, it covers everything for us. And I am so grateful that Jesus Christ knew that I would need the healing power of the Atonement. And that he, He died on the cross for all of us to be able to use that. And I love him for that. And I'm eternally grateful for that. So that's, that's my story.
[00:38:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Wow. Thank you. That is a story. Um, I felt it this now, this way I did when you told that story in sacrament meeting, it is so powerful. What a powerful witness of the atonement of Jesus Christ. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You're so welcome.
Segment 4
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[00:39:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right, everybody. I am so excited to introduce you to our next guest. His name is Ronell Hugh, and I could not be more thrilled. We are so lucky to have him on this Easter episode. I've wanted to have him on the podcast for a while, ever since I heard his all in interview, which by the way is phenomenal.
You're going to want to take some time to go and listen to that. And he's here to join us to talk about this idea of covering and Kaffir. But before we get into that, Ronell. Hi, how are you?
[00:39:48] Ronell Hugh: I'm great, Tammy. Thank you for having me.
[00:39:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, here we are. Okay. Well, now tell us a little bit about yourself.
[00:39:54] Ronell Hugh: Yeah. So what do I, what can I tell you about me?
Well, I always like to start here. I, I grew up all over. So I grew up in Europe, Germany, England, and then all over the States, um, lived in three countries by the time I was 10. I always tell people that I think made me very curious about people and cultures because I was able to experience German culture, the United States culture, and British.
Um, culture. So that's, that's key for me. I married, been married for, uh, 21 years and my wife and I, um, her name is Brianna. Um, and we have four kids, so, um, two boys and two girls and we're at the stage of where they're going to college. Our oldest is in college and we have a senior, a junior in high school and a eighth grader and then a fourth grader.
So they're, they're all pretty busy and all their activities, but, and we live here in, we live here in Utah. So,
[00:40:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: wow, you guys are in the thick of it that gosh, that's exciting. Wow. Well, and tell everybody your new calling, cause I think this is really awesome. It's awesome.
[00:40:52] Ronell Hugh: Yeah, thank you. I, so recently in December, I was called by the Utah area presidency to lead the Genesis group.
And so the Genesis group has been around since 1971. It was organized. By then elder Gordon B Hinckley, uh, Thomas S Monson and Boyd K Packer. And it's a, it's a, at the time it was organized as a branch and now it's considered a group, um, that focuses on serving black Latter day Saints. So we provide activities, we do ministering, really providing an opportunity for black Latter day Saints in the Utah area to gather, to support each other and to feel the love that comes.
And, you know, part of this comes from. Uh, that they need to be built and strengthened. And so they do that by coming together. But the other part of that is, um, they don't feel that in their wards and congregations and communities. And so there's kind of a uniqueness of how we can provide that support and in hopes that they feel strong and supported and love, and they have this support group outside of their wards and stakes and communities that they can then feel strengthened as they are in their wards and stakes and communities.
So that's kind of the focus for us. And so just started that in January and. You know, now in a few months. And so it's, it's great.
[00:42:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And it's a powerful organization. In fact, for those of my listeners who have never maybe even heard about this, where can they find more information about the Genesis group?
[00:42:13] Ronell Hugh: Yeah. So you can go online. Um, you'll should be able to find information on a website that we have that is called Genesis group. org. And so you can go and find more information. Um, and so that's where you can, yeah, and learn more. And if you just, if you Google LDS Genesis group, you'll find all sorts of, um, things out there about it.
So, but that's where you can go to find out more information.
[00:42:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Fantastic. Congratulations. I think that's pretty awesome.
[00:42:38] Ronell Hugh: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:42:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, Ronell. So we are going to talk for our Easter episode. We're going to talk about this idea of the word in Hebrew, which is Kaphar. And so I'm asking all my guests to tell me how has the atonement of Jesus Christ covered you?
Do you have a specific experience or story that you'd be willing to tell? I'd love to know your thoughts on this idea.
[00:42:59] Ronell Hugh: Yeah, it's, it's a powerful. word to think about, you know, especially when you think about the atonement and what the savior's done. I, I think back to experience that I had when, you know, when we were living in England and for me, um, we had this unique experience where, uh, as a family, we found ourselves homeless for a period of time.
Um, and so it's, it was formational experiences in my life. And it's actually right before we were introduced to the missionaries from the church Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. And so. Um, but we, we were kind of in this weird phase, like we didn't have a place to live. We were living in a homeless shelter and I, and I don't know what it was other than I had this deep reassurance that everything was going to be okay.
You know, and I, and, and so, and that's the only thing that would come to mind. And I was talking to my sister about this a few years ago and I don't even remember this experience, but she remembers it vividly is that I held, we were in this, you know, we had communal living spaces, shared showers. We went to a communal place where we ate and.
We were there for probably, I don't know, 3, 4, 5 months. I can't even remember. It seemed like a long time as a kid. Um, but I remember she said to me, she remembered me holding her and just reassuring her that everything is gonna be all right. Right? And she had to been about four or five years old, maybe at that time.
So she was pretty young still. And I looked back on that experience and as I look back on that experience, I can see the hand of the Lord providing that comfort, that covering, um, that peace that comes from. Um, just believing in a greater power and we'd always been religious as a family. So it was not new to kind of think that way.
But now looking back on that experience, I can totally see his hand in there comforting and just kind of helping us to know that things were going to be okay and moving us in the direction that we needed to go on.
[00:44:53] Tammy Uzelac Hall: How old were you?
[00:44:55] Ronell Hugh: Goodness. So this was, uh, 1992. And so I probably was 13, 12 or 13. What a powerful moment.
[00:45:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. That you can still remember. So, tell me how your family then came in contact with the church.
[00:45:13] Ronell Hugh: Yeah, so after that experience, we were placed in government housing in England, and it was in a really rough area called Wood End. Actually, apparently today it does not exist. They bulldoze it, tore it down.
But when we were going to move there. You know, it was known as an area where they had a lot of rioting. Sometimes you would find car burnings. Like it was a bad area to be in.
[00:45:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, my gosh.
[00:45:35] Ronell Hugh: And I remember moving in and we were just, you know, we moved into this house. And my dad mentioned to us that we need to find God again.
Uh, he, we had always gone to church. I was Christian Catholic as a child in Germany. And when we moved to the States, I had gone to a lot of different churches. Um, Baptist, Presbyterian, and Jehovah's Witness, but when we moved to England, we just stopped going. It's just like the two years that we were there before we got, we're homeless.
We just stopped going. And so he just said that we need to find a church and he, he went out. He was like literally searching. I remember one time going to a, um, a church of England cause it was like this big cathedral and we walked in and I could see like, you know, how, I mean, you, you see, if you've been to England, you've been to a church or cathedral, you just.
Oh, yeah. Ornate, beautiful, like.
[00:46:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It's my favorite thing. Anytime I travel anywhere, I try to find those churches. Yes. I love them.
[00:46:27] Ronell Hugh: And then he stumbled across the missionaries. And so he found some missionaries and, uh, sister missionaries and, um, sister Collins and sister Nelson. One was from Canada. One was from England.
And, you know, he invited him over. My mom was really hesitant. And she was like, no, because I have an aunt who's the Jehovah Witness. So she was like, yeah, we don't do the Mormon thing. Uh, but they came and taught us and it was. You know, obviously I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for that moment. Like it truly had changed our lives in terms of thinking about who we are, who we should be and where we should be going in our lives.
And so that was, that's how we got introduced to the gospel of Jesus Christ and the church of Jesus Christ.
[00:47:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So that's a great story. And I can see how, you know, as you were telling your story, the image that kept coming into my mind over and over again was the image of you holding your sister and, and holding her hand, I'm assuming.
[00:47:19] Ronell Hugh: Yeah. I was holding her hand, holding her, probably just cuddling, you know, cuddling her.
[00:47:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So, okay. I want to take that image and I want to now apply it to your life. You're an adult now. You're a dad, you're a husband, a provider. Can you tell me about times in your adult life where you have felt the savior hold your hand or cradle you or cover or help, like just hold you and tell you it's going to be okay?
[00:47:45] Ronell Hugh: Yeah. There's been, there's been a little, uh, several moments. Um, one of the ones that stands out to me. Is when I was going to grad school, actually, before I was going to grad school, um, I'm not the best test taker. Um, in fact, I always tell the story to BYU students. Now, when I go and I, and I guess lecture.
But I, I paid for the GMAT eight times, took it seven times. So I missed it somewhere in there, which is a whole nother story.
[00:48:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.
[00:48:14] Ronell Hugh: Um, but going through that process, it was just, it was super challenging. You know, I felt very alone. I felt like, well, I can't really, I just felt like, why am I, why do I feel the need to do this, but it's so challenging.
Like I can't overcome this hurdle. That is really the key to opening door. Um, to get into a business school program. And I just remember just like being like, how do I do this? And so the time that I had missed it was in the summer of 2008 and school was starting everywhere that fall and BYU, which shared with me, Hey, if you can get a better score, we'll, we'll, we'll relook at your application.
So I missed that, that test time, which was a day before. And typically it takes months to find a time. And my wife went on, I called her from the testing center and I said, Brie, I missed it. She said, but he was like, I don't know, maybe I was just too focused. I don't know. And I told her, I asked her to get on, she logged on and there was a time slot the next day to take it.
And you know, I just felt this like massive, like comfort and peace that came out of it and knowing that, like, Hey, I've had this crazy experience today where I have to kind of. Get calm again and be ready for tomorrow. But then when I took the test, I got the best score I had ever gotten, which turned into an amazing conversation with the, um, MBA director time, Craig Merrill, who invited me into his office and we, we shared a very tender moment where, um, I was sitting in his office and he, we're talking and he.
You know, and telling them about my life, my background, and he just said to me, he's like, I feel impressed that we should admit you into the program right now. And I just started bawling because it was 2 years of studying, paying for tests, taking it while working while trying to take care of a family and, you know, in a marriage and it just was overpowering for me.
And it is kind of both those moments in that same situation, if you will. It's kind of, this was super for me personal and knowing that the Lord is aware and he will do all that he can to comfort and to bring peace, even though life may be distracting and challenging, but ultimately I just felt that, that the love and that, like the comfort, that's what I feel when I feel in there, like this, this peace and comfort.
That things are going to be okay. Just have this believe and have faith. And for me, faith has always been, well, then act like, don't be, you know, don't have imposter syndrome. Don't tell myself I can't do it. Be like a faithful and be like, no, I can do this, but it's not going to be me alone.
[00:50:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh. Well, as you were talking about that story, it took me back to the word cover because one of the examples I gave at the very, very beginning of this whole episode was my brother in law is a cop.
And I said to him, what does the word cover mean to you? And he says, Oh gosh, like it's a matter of life or death for me. When I yell, cover me, I need somebody to cover my back. And it sounds like in your story, that is exactly what the savior did for you. He had your back.
[00:51:11] Ronell Hugh: Yeah.
[00:51:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: He covered you. He got you through.
I mean, would you agree?
[00:51:16] Ronell Hugh: Yes, I would. You know, and not, and I think when we, when we think about the saver for me, when I think about him covering us, It's, you know, today when I'm talking to my kids about it, it's like, we know we can't see him, but it takes this deep, you have to build a connection with the Lord to really understand what him covering you means, feels like, and how you experience it.
And a lot, a lot of what I have thought in my life, just because of the journey I've been on personally has been. You have to make space for him to feel that right. And I think that's the thing that I felt in that moment was just like, and in many experiences where that's happened to me where it's like, yes, he's there.
Right. But often I like for me, I've always recognized when I'm not making space for him. Then I don't, I don't feel that covering right when I'm distracted by other things. I just don't. And so that's what always comes to me is like, Hey, in order to feel the cover, you have to make space. Yeah. Right. And, um, and that's something that I definitely don't do perfectly, but I catch myself like, Oh, I'm not making space.
I gotta, I gotta figure out what I'm not doing. And find time for that.
[00:52:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: When you said that, I have to make space for him to cover me. I felt it in my heart, like you are absolutely right. 100%. The spirit was so strong when you said that, because I think sometimes the barrier between us and having the savior cover us.
It's not making space for him to do that because he's already willing. It's, it's right there in, and we just kind of, I know for me in my life, I just kind of feel like I can do it on my own. I got this, I don't need any help. Um, but the reality is, is everybody needs their back covered, everybody. And we have to just be willing to make space for that in our lives.
So thank you for pointing that out because that was the powerful moment about the atonement that we need to be reminded of. I love that.
[00:53:08] Ronell Hugh: Well, thank you. I appreciate it. It's been great. Like I. You know, for me, recognizing seeing the Savior in my life daily is, is such a, it's, it takes, it takes time. Right.
And I think that's the one thing I realized for me is like, I have to make time. I have to be willing to do that. But ultimately I, we all have to do that. Right. We all recognize that we need him. And there's a lot of things that end up being counterfeits. Kind of like feel that gap, right? And we will put it in there every now and then like, Oh yeah, this, this feels good.
And this feels right. The only way I get, I feel like this idea of being intentional is. Has become increasingly like almost vital for me. Like it's like there's a lot of things I don't want to do that because it's not really important and doesn't kind of, you know, fit with what I feel like is the most important thing for me right now work family and in my kids.
And then now that you're calling with Genesis group and the people I serve there, but. You know, generally speaking, it's all people related, actually. Just like enjoying people. Yeah, exactly.
[00:54:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, gosh, that's so cool. Well, and I think your example, all of everything, you've just given me some good ideas about how to create space or make space for the Savior in my life.
So thank you, Ronel. I really appreciate you taking the time to be on this episode to talk about how the Savior of Jesus Christ can k'far us or cover us. I loved your answer.
[00:54:34] Ronell Hugh: No, definitely. Thank you. This has been incredible.
Segment 5
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[00:54:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: My next guest is my neighbor and she's also my friend. Her name is Juli Woodward and we've known each other. We've been in the ward together and we actually had babies at the same time when we logged in some hours in the mother's lounge. During classes at church. And I just love Juli. Hi, Juli. I'm so excited.
You're here. Will you please share with us your story about how the atonement of Jesus Christ has covered you? Or as we read at the very beginning, a quote by our prophet, how the atonement of Jesus Christ has maybe embraced you or hugged you or comforted you.
[00:55:18] Juli Woodward: You know, I, I thought about that a lot. I love this, this word that you've presented, you know, and just the idea of the atonement covering us.
And at first I thought about, you know, the covers, like when you're in bed and you're snuggled up so warm and comfortable. And when I think of the atonement, especially in some of the. Circumstances that I've really utilized, you know, the atonement in my life, I feel like that's what I have felt is that comfort and it's really hard for me to talk about without getting emotional.
So, um, probably the biggest thing is when I had my youngest child, Jackie, and, um, she was kind of a surprise. So I thought, Oh, I'm all done having my children and, you know, we're not going to have any more kids and I'm going to kind of be able to focus on myself a little bit and kind of get back in gear a little bit, but then little Jackie came along and so we had this surprise pregnancy.
It was really exciting. And then. We had some more surprises because she has what we call limb differences and her little body didn't grow all the way. So her little arms and legs didn't develop all the way and so she basically doesn't have legs and she has her right arm. And hand and then her left arm just to the elbow.
So as you can imagine, that was quite a shock for us. And at first I was really comforted and really strong because I felt like I had kind of known along the way that something wasn't right. You know, that feeling you get when you're like, Something's not right here. I don't, I'm not sure what's going on, but I just kind of had this innate knowledge that something wasn't going to be okay with this pregnancy.
[00:57:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: One of the memories that I have with you, Juli, is after Jackie was born brand new, I brought dinner over to your family and no one was home. It was just the two of us. And I remember sitting down in your living room and you just wanted to talk. And one of the questions that you asked me that even makes me emotional now.
As you said, what is it like having a child with special needs? And I can remember how heavy that question was. First of all, no one's ever asked me that. And to be in that situation with you, I just felt like you get it. And I remember looking at you and we both started crying and I just said, it's so hard.
It is so hard. And there are times that you just think, I can't do this anymore. And there are times when you don't want to do it anymore. And so I'd love to just hear from you after you asked me that question, what has your experience been like? And has there been sort of a resolve or anything that's come about?
What is it like for you? I guess I should say, Juli, maybe what I should ask you, Juli, is what is it like having a child with special needs?
[00:58:03] Juli Woodward: Well, it was really overwhelming. And at first I was really comforted when I was pregnant with Jackie. It was like we were kind of connected and it was a beautiful experience because it was like she was kind of hugging me saying, Oh mom, everything's going to be fine.
You'll see. You'll see. And, um, I have a brother with a prosthetic limb, you know, he actually was in a car accident and lost his leg, but he brought me a lot of comfort too, because he said, there's so many things that you can do and she's going to be okay. And so I thought about that. I thought, okay, this is a physical disability.
That's going to be a challenge, but we can do it, you know, and then Jackie got here and it was a little bit worse than I guess we thought, but at the same time, I remember my parents telling me, Oh, I'm just praying for a miracle. And in my mind, I was thinking, Oh, that miracle might be that she. Her little limbs will grow, you know, but of course, gestational age, she was past all that.
And so now that she's here and I've seen how, you know, blessed she is. I mean, she can do so many things and she's so smart and she's so capable of doing. A million things, she does gymnastics and she can swim now and all of those things that she can do. I realized that that's the miracle. And so it is difficult having a child with disabilities, but it also kind of lends to your life a joy that's deeper than you may have otherwise known you had.
Does that make sense? Absolutely. It does. Yeah, because it is really challenging. And so when they overcome different obstacles, it's like so awesome. And it just set in like after she was about two months old and all of a sudden I realized, Oh my goodness, like this is our new normal. And it was really painful for me because I felt that personal responsibility of could I have changed this?
You know, was there something else I could have done? But now I realized 10 years later, there's really nothing I could have done. This is just what happens. You know, sometimes things happen with our, our bodies and our lives and we can't control whether we have a child with a disability or. Whether we have a wayward child or, you know, whatever might happen, whatever could be sad.
If we have a spouse die or a child pass away, I mean, there's so many different things that happen in our lives. And I have gained a lot of strength in my grief, I guess. There's still times when she goes through challenges that are really difficult for me to have to watch and think, Oh, you know, I wish I could take that away from her,
but I know that our savior does.
And I think about You know, the scripture, I think it's Mosiah 2, 17, when you're in the service of your fellow beings, you're only in the service of your God. And I think about that every time I'm helping Jackie with things,
anytime we help any of our kids or our friends or our neighbors,
we are essentially serving our savior, you know, cause he can't be here to do it for us. And so as we yoke with him and it really joined together to serve
[01:01:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: one another, I think that makes the biggest difference. Juli, you're absolutely right. Thank you for sharing that scripture reference, especially in light of your experience.
I'd never considered that when we're serving our children, we're serving God because you kind of get in the thick of it. And then basically, you know, we talk about how you're in the foxhole of life, but I really loved your connection there. So I have a followup question to that then is I'd like to know also you were serving Jackie.
Was anyone serving you?
[01:02:10] Juli Woodward: You know, the biggest thing I think that helped me was just Quite honestly, just family and friends that were surrounding me, um, it was very tangible because I was really, really in a grief stricken state. And you know, I have a really cool story where our neighbors, um, Julie and Ken Warnick, they're such wonderful people.
They were on a mission at the time when Jackie was born, but they came home shortly after. And so when I was talking with Ken and Julie, and they came over to meet Jackie, Ken said, well, first of all, I need to tell you, I saw online this cool girl and she didn't have any legs and she had posted something and I saw it and I thought, Oh, I've got to meet this girl.
Well, I've told Tammy, I kind of had this tech deficiency, so I'm not on social media or anything. And I didn't know how to connect with her. Well, anyway. Her name was Brooke and Ken and Julie came home and Ken says, well, you probably know Brooke. And I thought to myself, wait, are you talking about this girl?
That's like giving me so much hope this last few months and sure enough, it was the same person. And so he had known her when she was born, I guess, and worked with her dad. And so he said, you know what? I'll get in touch with them and so that you can meet her. And it was the coolest thing because she and her family came down to meet us and they met Jackie and it was just awesome to be able to meet Brooke people like that with limb differences.
We also got to meet Nick, which I think is how you say his name. And so meeting people with limb differences was a big deal for me. Because I could see that they were happy and that they were well adjusted with life and that they had a full life of, you know, things that they wanted to do. And that was the coolest thing for me.
[01:04:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, Juli. I really appreciate your answers and your willingness to share this story. And so here's my last question for you. Let's fast forward now to today. Where are you now on your journey and what does it look like for you and your sweet daughter Jackie? Well when
[01:04:24] Juli Woodward: Jackie was born it was like I saw her life for a hundred years, you know And I thought oh my goodness, like I'm not gonna be here for all of it She's my youngest child.
I'm 38 years old, you know And so I kind of told my other kids you guys are gonna have to watch out for her
and she has such amazing siblings Adore her. But what I didn't think about too was my own aging process. It's been difficult for me too, cause I've kind of, I've got osteoarthritis and so I'm dealing with some knee problems and different things. And so as I help Jackie and have to pick her up and those types of things, you know, she's getting a little bit bigger now, but she does a lot for herself, but I just have to like get her in her wheelchair or get her in the car.
And to help her with different things that is becoming more of a challenge where I'm recognizing that she has to do more of it on her own. And so I want to be able to help her, but at the same time, I need to help her mostly by helping her help herself. But the fact that it's taken 10 years for me to kind of realize there's nothing I could have done to make it different.
It's kind of shocking to me to think that it might take that long sometimes to really embrace the power of the atonement. But I felt my savior with me, you know, all along the way, I've looked back and thought, wow, he really did provide what I needed that day to get through whatever it was, not just with Jackie, but you know, different challenges that we have with her.
Our families are, oh, personal health or whatever is troubling you at that time.
[01:06:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Juli, I'm so glad you're my friend. Thank you so much for sharing your story and your experience. I think all of us who heard this just could feel in your heart and in your words how much you love your family. Your family, and I want you to love your children.
One of the things that I'm going to take away from this whole experience is going back to how we started at the very beginning. One of the ways that he covers us is he makes up the difference. I talked about how I didn't have money when I was single and somebody would cover me and pay my bill. But as you were talking, I have seen in your life, How the savior has made up the difference when you weren't able to maybe physically do something or emotionally, and he has sent people in to help you.
So thank you for sharing that and giving us a really great idea of one of the ways that the atonement of Jesus Christ covers us.
[01:07:03] Juli Woodward: Oh, thank you. You're so wonderful. Tammy. I love you. I love you too. Jewels.
Segment 6
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[01:07:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, this next guest is one that many of you have asked for, and we've gone five long years without, well, four and a half long years without ever getting this person on the podcast. And he is here and I'm so delighted and excited to introduce you to my husband, Jim Hall. Hi, Jim.
[01:07:38] Jim Hall: Hello. I'm so excited to understand what all the audio equipment is for around the house.
You're doing a podcast. We've been in it for how long? Four years, five years. That's incredible. Wow.
[01:07:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's what all this stuff is for. Uh huh. Yeah. That's why I've been in the closet for four years.
[01:07:53] Jim Hall: We should talk more so I could find out what you're doing.
[01:07:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Nice.
[01:07:58] Jim Hall: That's a joke.
[01:07:59] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It is. He knows. All right.
Well, I, I have had people reach out and say, when is your husband going to be on the podcast? And we always had a strict, no family members except for maybe like an in law we're breaking the rule. This is it. And the reason we're breaking the rule is because I knew when I was thinking about this episode that was specific to the atonement of Jesus Christ, that I wanted Jim to tell his story.
And here's why. So on our very first date, we went out for sushi and he told me his story. And when he got done telling me the story, I looked at him and my jaw was pretty much on the table and the words that came out of my mouth were. And you still go to church. And he just looks at me, he's like, well, yeah, well actually said, what else am I going to do at eight 30 in the morning?
And I said, I'm sorry, what? And he says, yeah, our church is at eight 30 and I said, forget about it. I can't believe you're still active. You've got eight 30 church and you've got two little girls and his wife had passed away. As many of you know, cause I've shared that story. It's the backstory leading up to Michelle's passing away that just had me floored.
And I knew that I wanted to marry this man. And I was praying the whole time that he would marry me. So maybe prayers really do work. So Jim, there we are, we're sitting, we're eating sushi. And I just want you to tell our listeners your story. Um, start at the very beginning, wherever you want to start, maybe.
[01:09:22] Jim Hall: Okay. Yeah, we had, uh, so my, my first wife's name was Michelle and we had moved down here and lived in an apartment for about a year. I'd taken a job down here with a, with a company and things were actually going pretty well, so we bought a home. And it's actually the home that we're, that you are still in, which some people might think is strange, but that's a story for another podcast.
But so we, we moved in to this home and like I said, everything was going really well, a great job, new home. And then a few weeks in to being in this home, Michelle found a lump. And, um, so she finds, she finds the lump and we go in and we get a biopsy. And we, we find out that it's, uh, that it's cancer, it's breast cancer.
So we, so we, we, we start that we start meeting with doctors and, and we start coming up with a game plan on how it's going to be treated and, and, and what we're going to do is a very scary and frightening time, so not long. After, uh, probably within a week after we started all of her treatments for cancer, my check bounced at work.
So the company I was working for had run out of money and, and understand too, as I explained this, this was around, this was a while ago. So it was around, uh, just after 9, 11, that's why the company ran out of money is everything. It just kind of dried up. So not only that happened, but it wasn't that easy to go get another job.
[01:11:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.
[01:11:08] Jim Hall: So I actually, even though they weren't making payroll, they were still able to pay the health insurance. We were fortunate that, uh, well, you know, I, I worked for him for six months without getting paid because they were still able to make the benefit payments. And so we could still have, have health insurance.
And of course I looked for other jobs and things, but it just, yeah. It was kind of that crazy time after 9 11, where nobody was hiring, everybody was holding on to their money. So when she was first diagnosed, I took a couple of weeks off work, um, which was, of course, fine because I wasn't getting paid. So, um, and, uh, the first day back to work.
Uh, as I pulled out of the parking lot of the building and I was driving down the street, uh, a big truck made a left hand turn in front of me and totaled my car, took my car out. I get out, my face is bleeding and I'm just thinking, are you kidding me? Like this, you know, this, this, this can't be happening.
Trust me, hold on. It gets better or worse. However you'd like to think about it. Um, so we, uh, We take care of that. I work for six months, um, for free. We go through all the chemo radiation. And then during some of that chemo and radiation, um, you know, at the time we had Michelle and I had had two girls, uh, uh, Anna and Kirsten and, and Kirsten has a mild cerebral palsy and she started having seizures.
So I got a call while I'm at work for Michelle saying, You know, you need to come home. We've called an ambulance. She's having seizures and, and we, and, and she's not stopping. So the ambulance takes her to, um, takes her to the hospital, to the closest hospital where they can't get the seizure to stop. So they end up life flooding her to primary children's and we end up at, at primary children's, um, where they're able to control it.
And now we're dealing with, you know, All of Michelle's cancer and treatments now we're trying to figure out, you know, what are we doing with Kirsten? Um, you know, the fact that she had a seizure wasn't a big surprise because she'd already been diagnosed with cerebral palsy, but just, you know, trying to navigate all of that was, uh, was, you know, yeah, fairly difficult.
So.
So Michelle completes all of her, uh, completes all of her, um, chemo radiation for this, this first six, six months. And she's declared cancer free.
[01:13:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.
[01:13:48] Jim Hall: So, uh, the one thing that our doctor said, so understand that, I mean, we were pretty young at the time, right? She was only, she was diagnosed at 33. So we weren't very old.
And um, and our doctor, the cancer doctor had said, you know, if, if you can go a year being cancer free, then you can start thinking about having more children.
Sorry. So, so we, um, about a year after we went out to, uh, We went out to dinner and, and talked about it. And Michelle said, you know, our doctor said that, you know, if about a year after we could talk about having more kids, I said, yeah, let's, let's do it. Let's make an appointment with the doctor and, um, and we'll go talk to him and, and, and get his blessing that we can, we can go ahead and start.
And this is the oncologist, the cancer doctor. So, I don't know, probably 4 or 5 days after we go out to dinner and have that conversation and she's already made the appointment with the doctor, which I can't remember how far out it was from then, um, she,
she finds another lump. So, instead of, um, going to the doctor to find out how to have more kids. Or if we can, our appointment with the cancer doctor was, you know, how, how do we extend Michelle's life? How much longer do we think she's going to live? Because at that point, the cancer was considered terminal.
Um,
so she started treatments up again, going through the processes, trying to, you know, extend her life. Um, as, as we can. As long as we could, um, and just after that, just after the, we found out the cancer came back, my, uh, my father, so my parents, I was raised in California and that's where my parents lived. So, my father decided that he was going to come into town and cheer me up and take me on a fishing trip.
So, he came into town. And the, he was, you know, staying here at the house and the next morning he got up and I kind of met him in the hallway and he said, I'm going to go down to the bathroom down the hall because, um, I don't want to wake up the girls. I want to wake up your daughters. So I started to head back in my room.
He has, has down the hallway and somehow he missed steps as he's going down the hallway and he falls down the stairs, ends up breaking his back, ends up having, uh, I mean, I'm bleeding his brainstem. There was all kinds of stuff going on. And so he gets taken to the hospital and he dies about five days later.
So first of all, he failed miserably at cheering me up. That didn't, that didn't go very well.
[01:17:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Didn't work.
[01:17:06] Jim Hall: No, no, the doing that really, really didn't work. So, um, and then, uh, after my father passes away, um, I had a friend that came and said, Hey, why don't you come start playing basketball with us? And I'd played a lot of basketball growing up.
I'm a fairly tall guy. I'm six, four. And so I, you know, I played basketball growing up and, um, and a lot of, and I thought, oh, that's a great idea. Let's let's, you know, get me out of the house and get me my mind off of things. And here we go. And, um, I don't, I don't know how long I'd been playing or showing up, you know, these are just church.
You know, playing, just pick up games at the church house and, uh, I'm playing and I rupture my Achilles tendon. So this is after my father's died. So now I go in, the doctor decides that he says, Hey, I think we don't have to do surgery. We can just, we just kind of put your foot back and we put, uh, um, we put casts and then we recast it and kind of stretch it out and, and, and that should work.
So I did that for 6 months. Well, Michelle is going to all the second rounds of all the, all the treatments. Um, we take the final cast off a few days later, I'm walking across the bedroom and my Achilles pops again, same one. So now I'm back in and we're doing surgery this time. So. We have the surgery. I'm, I mean, combined between the, you know, the two different shots.
Uh, I think I was on crutches for about a year. Um, at the same time that, you know, I'm trying to take care of Michelle and do all that now understand. I wasn't doing this by myself. I had, you know, plenty of wonderful help from neighbors and family and, and, and all of that. But, um, yeah, that was one more thing that I just was like, I don't understand why this is all happening right now.
Um, So after, after that time, I mean, I'm still, you know, struggling. I mean, I had actually stopped work. I mean, after we were done with the treatment, the six months with the treatments, I had stopped working, which is kind of doing consulting and side work and things like that. Just trying to keep our head above water.
And, um, uh, after my. After my father passed away, you know, honestly, I was, I was really angry at this point. I was, I was pretty mad. Um, and, and just, you know, struggling with a lot of things still, still fighting the good fight and all that, but, um, I was definitely going through a lot of emotions and trying to understand, you know, you know, why, like, why is this all happening?
Why is this all going on? I don't understand. I wasn't learning anything from at the time. I was just kind of mad. Um, so Michelle passes away. Uh, in 2005 and, um, if anybody has been through this before, you know, we, we knew, you know, hospice comes in, they tell you she's probably got a couple weeks left, right?
I mean, they, they can kind of try to guess how much longer she has left and she's, you know, slowly deteriorating. And during that time. There's a lot of people at the house. Everybody's coming to say their final goodbyes. Everybody's, um, uh, coming to, uh, um, just, yeah, say their say their final goodbyes. And, um, so the house is really active.
She passes away. We have the funeral. It's I don't know how many a week or so later. You know, my mom was here. My mom goes back to California and it's just myself. And my two daughters and they're nine and seven at the time and in Kirsten and it was a Saturday night and I remember putting him to bed. And I just go to the end of my bed and I'm just sitting on the end of my bed and I'm just sobbing and I'm just crying uncontrollably because this wasn't how it was supposed to be.
This wasn't, I mean, right. It wasn't how it was supposed to go. And, and on top of that, I was absolutely terrified. I just was like, what am I going to do? I don't even know how to do these girls hair tomorrow for church. I mean, I don't know what I'm going to do. And, um, so as I'm sitting on the bed and I'm just sobbing is incredible, just warm, peaceful feeling comes over me and I just completely relax and I just absolutely hear that telling me that everything's going to be okay, it's going to be all right, that, um, you know, just stick it out.
You stuck it out this far, just stick it out longer. And, um, I'd never really had an experience like that before. Um, And I think that was, you know, the first time that I had, I had, uh, I think felt the healing power of, of the atonement, you know, I, I think we think a lot about the atonement, forgiveness of sins and, and, and all that, but there's, there's also a real healing power to the atonements, all that I've, that I'd been through and it was just that warm feeling.
And I just, I just felt that. Yeah.
[01:22:36] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Thank you. Um, yeah. And so I said, and you're still active. You still go to church because I had dated so many people that left the church for so much less. And I just, ah, I just love you so much. And you can see why I think I'm the luckiest human and that waiting all those years was worth the wait.
And I had a blessing one time by my dad. And he said in my blessing, and I knew it wasn't really from my dad. Sometimes I would wonder, is it my dad's words or heavenly father's? And there was something, and this I knew was not from my dad because the language he used, I'm like, Oh, this is divine. And I remember him saying that my weight will be worth it and that it will exceed anything I could have ever imagined.
And I think that is absolutely true with you. And I'm so thankful for you sharing that moment. Um, you know, one thing that I think is really cool about your story, too, is Will you just quickly tell the part about your bishop and what his advice was to you and Michelle?
[01:23:50] Jim Hall: Sure. Yeah. So when, when she was first diagnosed with cancer, we went in and saw our Bishop, Bishop Larson.
I don't know if I can say names like good luck tracking down Bishop Larson. Right. I mean, it doesn't exactly narrow it down, but we went in and saw my Bishop, you know, and he sits us down and the advice he gives me is. Uh, just, just keep going to church. That's that was his advice. Just keep going to church.
And I honestly left thinking, really, that's the great advice I'm getting is just keep going to church. Cause by the way, I had no plans on not going to church. So I just thought that was kind of odd advice. But as I was going through all of this that I was going through after each time, what kept going through my head?
It was just keep going to church. So it turned out to be the greatest advice I could have gotten because trust me, there were plenty of times where I felt like, yeah, I'm just done. Like this isn't really working out, you know, I mean,
[01:24:54] Tammy Uzelac Hall: yeah,
[01:24:54] Jim Hall: they talk about the bad things happening to good people. I'm like, you know, I've lived a pretty good life.
I'm a pretty good guy. I don't understand why all this, all this is happening to me in such a short period of time. Yeah. Right.
[01:25:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Turned out to work in your favor. Just keep going to church.
[01:25:09] Ronell Hugh: Yeah.
[01:25:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Thank you, Jim. Thank you. I appreciate you sharing your experience with the atonement of Jesus Christ and I like how you said the healing power of the atonement because it does heal and I think many people listening know that or want that experience and you are an example of.
Of it working. So thanks.
[01:25:29] Jim Hall: And that happened when I met you, that healing power continued because I met you and, uh, was able to, you know, I have another wonderful marriage. I mean, how many people get that opportunity?
[01:25:42] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Right? Seriously.
[01:25:43] Jim Hall: I mean,
[01:25:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: you're pretty lucky. Honestly.
[01:25:46] Jim Hall: I know.
[01:25:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. You. Yeah. Talk about the children of Israel walking through the sea on dry land.
He gave you dry land. All right. He's like, I'm going to do you. I'm going to make sure it's the best case scenario for you. Yeah. I love being married to Jim Hall. It is awesome. So thanks, hon. You're the best.
[01:26:03] Jim Hall: No problem.
[01:26:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: There it is. Everything we've heard today are beautiful examples of how the atonement of Jesus Christ covers us or embraces us or holds us into this beautiful hug.
I am so grateful to my guests for sharing their stories. I have felt the spirit so strong as I've interviewed and as even when I went back and listened again, and it just, it's true. I am looking forward. Thank you. Um, to you sharing what your takeaway was from this episode, or even better yet, join our group, follow us on Instagram or Facebook.
And what I'd love to know is if you could share with us how the atonement of Jesus Christ has cafard you, how has it covered you and what experiences have you had at the end of the week on a Saturday? We're going to post a question relating to this exact episode, and I cannot wait to read what you have to share.
Comment on the post relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes. For this episode at LDS living. com slash Sunday on Monday, the Sunday on Monday study group is a desert bookshelf plus original, and it's brought to you by LDS living.
It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our beautiful, fabulous, incredible, uh, I don't know if there's enough adjectives to describe these study group participants were brother Jan Newman, Crystaleen Harris, Ronell Hugh, Juli Woodward, and Jim Hall. And you can find more information about these friends at ldsliving.
com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember this week as you're preparing to celebrate Easter, that the savior of the world will cover you because you are his father's favorite.