The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
===
[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: This week, we get to study 1 Nephi chapter 6 through 10 with the focus being on Lehi's dream. Now, listen, if you have read and studied Lehi's vision many times, which I'm sure you have, how cool is this? The Come Follow Me manual challenges us this time to think about the vision the way Lehi did. Within the context of the family and those we love.
As we do this, the security of the iron rod, the dangers of the spacious building and the sweetness of the fruit, it's going to take on a whole new meaning and we will be able to understand more deeply.
Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come Follow Me lesson for the week, and we really dig into our scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Usolak Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description.
It's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come Follow Me study just like my good friends in Arizona, Michelle Perkins, Sandy Herrenberg, Kelly Despain, Molly Monague, Hilary Goodman, Marilyn Parkinson, and Maraima Rodriguez. Ladies, I loved meeting you. Thank you for coming up and saying hi.
Now, another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different. And today, we have Sharon Staples. Hi, Sharon!
[00:01:24] Sharon Staples: Shalom, Tammy. Good to see you.
[00:01:26] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Shalom, good friend. And we have a new friend that Sharon and I are super excited to introduce you guys to.
Her name is Gaylamarie Rosenberg. Hello, Gaylamarie!
[00:01:35] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: Thank you for inviting me, so happy to be here. It's
[00:01:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: going to be a great discussion. We were talking before we started recording and many of you know this, people's names come to my mind and I invite them and then later on I find out, oh, this is why they're supposed to be on the podcast.
And Gaylamarie, you have such an incredible story and an extensive knowledge about family. Can you tell our guests a little bit about yourself?
[00:02:00] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: Um, I started teaching at BYU in 1991 as a, as a graduate instructor and then started as adjunct faculty in the Family Studies Department. And then I moved over from the Family Studies Department to Church History and Doctrine and taught, um, Living Prophets and LDS Marriage and Family.
And then it became one of the core classes called the Eternal Family class. And so I've been teaching that class ever since and, and currently do that as well. Um, I have two daughters. My husband and I have been married for, what, we just celebrated our 30, 31st anniversary. We're still hoping for grandchildren.
I'm a wannabe grandma. And um, my, our two daughters, they're both adopted. We adopted both of them when they were just a couple days old. And um, They tell us that we need to be happy with granddogs, but I'm still hanging on to hope.
[00:03:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Granddogs are not bad. I hear they're quite lovely because you can send them home, kind of like grandkids though, right?
[00:03:06] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: Yeah. Yes. Most people our age have a dozen grandchildren by now, but hopefully before we die, we'll have one or two. I don't know. Oh, that's so funny.
[00:03:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I think I read a meme one time that said people your age either have grandchildren. Or teenagers. Like, we're all in this weird space because that's where I am.
I should be a grandma. I'm old enough to be one, but I still have teenagers. So we're, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just think that's pretty funny. So yeah. Okay. But tell us you also are an author. Tell us about your book and what's the title?
[00:03:36] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: The title is Our Savior from Self Doubt, and um, I started writing this book when I realized that we just had an increase of students who were dealing with doubt about God and doubt about self.
And Doubt About God is another book, but I wanted to focus on self doubt, and I looked at the works of positive psychologists in learning how to retrain unproductive thoughts to more productive thoughts, how to get rid of all that negative mental chatter. So that's one dimension of it. But most importantly, it is a book about how the Savior helps us when we don't feel good about ourselves.
Oh, wow. How he helps us not only to receive forgiveness and how to receive help with overcoming imperfections but how to overcome imperfect understanding of ourselves as well. And those two dimensions are kind of framed around an experience that my husband and I have had walking a Christian pilgrimage across northern Spain called the Camino de Santiago.
And so each chapter is kind of framed around that experience. But the heart of this book is really understanding how the Savior helps us when we encounter self doubt. Wow. When we're too hard on ourselves, when we're impatient with ourselves, when we rely on our own strength instead of relying on His strength, when we compare ourselves to others instead of focusing on, you know, enhancing our own abilities, um, etc.,
etc. So, I just wanted to identify all the different ways that the Savior helps us. By focusing on his patience with us, and his power where he enables us to turn weaknesses into strengths, and focusing on his voice, and focusing on his forgiveness, and focusing on his gifts that he gives to us, and his invitation to walk with us.
So that's the heart of it.
[00:05:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow.
[00:05:44] Sharon Staples: That's a beautiful. Sounds wonderful. It does.
[00:05:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Sounds great. I'm in. I am absolutely in because my bucket list has always had El Camino de Santiago on it and I've never thought I could do it. So if you're telling me your book is about that experience and self doubt, I'm going to go buy it.
I think it's awesome.
[00:06:04] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: Wow. Well, initially I wrote it because I, I thought. You know, there are so many students who are right in that stage of, you know, accomplishing their dreams and realizing their talents and abilities, and I wanted to focus on them. And then I thought, oh, women and mothers are, you know, classic for dealing with self doubt and never feeling, you know, like they're enough.
I also have encountered a lot of men who deal with it too, and I thought, I need this book to be for everybody, because the Savior helps us all. And I think that sometimes we just try to do it alone and go it alone when it comes to overcoming feelings of self doubt and not feeling good about ourselves and our abilities and our talents.
And, and so. Hopefully it will be helpful for all age groups.
[00:07:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, for those of you listening who are thinking, wait, what was the name of the book again? I want to look it up. I have good news for you. If you go to our show notes, which are found at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday, you can read more about my guests and we will have a direct link to Gaylamarie's book.
So you can just click on that and there you go. It's for you. So I am, I am going to do that. Absolutely. Well, ladies, I am really looking forward to our discussion. Chapters 6 through 10 in 1st Nephi are just filled with so much goodness and I like that we're going to take a unique approach by just looking at the family and those we love.
So grab your scriptures and something to mark your scriptures with and let's dig into 1st Nephi chapter 6 through 10. Okay, so right out of the gate, this is the first question we always ask. What has the Holy Ghost taught you this week?
[00:07:56] Sharon Staples: The thing that struck me is how difficult it is to be a stalwart member of this church. It's, it's, It's difficult because of the conditions in the world today, but also to stay, as we're going to talk about soon, stay on the straight path, keep a hold of the iron rod, be sure to taste of the fruit. I mean, there are so many things that we have available to us today to keep us close to our covenants, and yet the world is pounding at us from every direction.
For Lehi, when he wanted to direct his family to the tree, he had so many things that were trying to divert him. And that obedience and faith and love are not all that easy. Forgiveness, repentance, those are not easy character traits to develop and establish in your life as constants. They're there, and we get them on occasion.
But to have them as constants, so I, the Holy Ghost said, keep going. That's what it said. Don't give up, keep going, keep holding on to that iron rod, keep holding, keep eating the fruit, keep, keep active, keep going to sacrament meeting, keep going to the temple, keep going to your neighbors and helping, keep, you know, just, just keep at it.
So I think that, well, it just came through loud and clear. Don't give up. Endure to the end.
[00:09:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow, Sharon, I'm sorry, I'm just writing down some things you said, because when you said it, I thought, that is exactly what these chapters are about. You said, obedience, love, forgiveness, repentance, they're all hard.
They're all hard, but don't give up. Right. That was really, because that's exactly what these chapters are about. They're a perfect example of obedience, love, forgiveness, and repentance. So thank you, Sharon. You're
[00:10:08] Sharon Staples: welcome. Thanks for asking.
[00:10:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What about you, Gaylamarie?
[00:10:12] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: So true. Well, I just have to thank you for inviting me to join you because as I read through these chapters I just had the thought that I should go back and read my journal of when I went on a study abroad to Israel in 1987 and attended the Lehi's Trek.
Weekend excursion, and we walked 20 of the miles of the last 60 miles down to the Red Sea, this pathway that Lehigh's family walked. Three times, right? Right. And as I read through the journal, um, it just brought back so many sweet memories and a powerful reminder to me. And I read, when I was walking along, I was talking to somebody next to me and we were talking about how hard it was, how long it was, how hot it was, how miserable it was, and then we said, I were layman and leal.
I would've complained too. I probably would've been one of those Moaners and Groaners. I probably would've been in that comp complainer camp as well. And then we got talking about how much the book of Warman has meant to us over our lives and how precious it was, and how it has miraculously been brought to us.
And. There was such an incredible spirit and I, I wrote this in my journal and it was so sweet reading through these memories that I had of this powerful witness that I needed to make the Book of Mormon a daily. part of my scripture study every day for the rest of my life. How important it was that I anchor myself in the pages of the Book of Mormon on a daily basis.
And as I was reading through this journal, You know, the same feeling came to me, just this reminder, the promises and blessings that we have been given to make daily Book of Mormon study part of, part of our routine and the powerful blessings and the powerful spirit that will come into our lives as we do so.
And it also reminded me of when I was in, at BYU as a student, Sister Patricia Holland gave a devotional and she said, I don't want one BYU student going to bed at night without finding a meaningful verse for you. And I remember her saying that and over the last, you know, what, 35 years since she said that, combining that With my Book of Mormon study and that prompting that I got when I was walking Lehi's track I just have to testify what a powerful influence that has had in my life It has really been life changing for me to really pour into the scriptures of the Book of Mormon and to feel of the Spirit and feel of the teachings of Christ that are being taught in these words and um When you ask, what is it that the Spirit taught me this week?
It was just a powerful reminder of how important the Book of Mormon is to us and the powerful difference that it can make in our lives each day. Wow.
[00:13:42] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Gaylamarie, while you were talking, what hit me was when you said we need to anchor ourselves in the Book of Mormon. And I love Sister Holland's challenge to find a meaningful verse.
And what's striking me is that with each segment in this episode, we're doing that. We will be finding verses that meant something to us. So that's really neat that she challenged that. And I am really looking forward then to studying the rest of these chapters with the two of you as we look for meaningful verses.
So, Thank you for sharing that both of you. That was really powerful. So in the next segment, we are going to jump into what we purposefully skipped in our very first episode, because we're now at the point in the Book of Mormon where it's all going to make sense. And I'll show you what I mean in the next segment.
Segment 2
---
[00:14:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right, everyone, turn with me to the front of the Book of Mormon, to the page that says contents. Now, if you have a Book of Mormon, that is a 2013 edition. It's going to say contents at the top of the page. It's the page that has all of the books in order. If you have a 1981, um, Book of Mormon, which a lot of us do, it's going to say names and order of books in the Book of Mormon.
So that's what you want to look for, either the one that says contents, which is all of the books, or names and order of the books in the Book of Mormon. Okay, now when you get there, find some space on that page that has a lot of room, because we're going to write some things. And the first thing that you want to do is with a pen, I want you to write 1st Nephi chapter 6.
And then first Nephi nine. So somewhere on that page, right? First Nephi six and then first Nephi nine.
Now, I purposefully skipped this contents page a few weeks ago because I wanted to get to first Nephi six and nine so we can really understand what's going on with these books. Now, keep your finger here or keep a pen there because we're going to come back to this contents page.
But once you have first Nephi six and nine written down, let's turn back to first Nephi chapter six. We're going to highlight when Nephi says, He's going to say it several times in chapter six and then in chapter nine. So I'm going to give you the verses. You find where he says these plates. Here we go.
In first Nephi chapter six, it's in verse one, these plates. Then he says it again in verse three. He says they cannot be written upon these plates. And then he says it again in verse six, Wherefore I shall give a commandment unto my seed that they shall not occupy these plates. Now you're going to want to cross reference at the end of verse six, put 1st Nephi 9.
Both chapters are only six verses long. But 1st Nephi 9, Nephi again brings up these plates. So let's highlight every time he says it in chapter 9. Here we go, verse 1. He says it at the very end. He says, I cannot write all of the things. On these plates, then verse two, and now as I've spoken concerning these plates, at the end of verse two, he says it again.
And these plates also are called the plates of Nephi. Verse three, he says it again, these plates. In verse four, he says, these plates upon the other plates should be engraved in an account of the reign of the kings and the wars and contentions of my people. Wherefore, these plates. are for the more part of the ministry, and the other plates are for the more part of the reign of the kings and the wars and contentions of my people.
And then verse 5 he says it again. Wherefore the Lord hath commanded to me to make these plates. Okay, now choose another highlighting color, and we're still going to be in chapter 9, but in verse 4 with a different color highlight other plates. Now, here's why we did this. So on this page, and I have it written in 1st Nephi 9, every time Nephi says these plates, he's talking about the small plates of Nephi.
So I've just kind of drawn a line next to these plates and I wrote small plates of Nephi. But the other plates of Nephi in verse four that we marked, those are the large plates of Nephi. And Nephi specifically says in chapter nine, that the small plates are the religious record or the ministry, his ministry.
The large plates are historical record. Okay now before you're I'm sure your mind's swirling like what are we talking about small plates large plates? Religious record historical record now let's go back to the contents page and Let's apply these plates and other plates to all the books in the Book of Mormon and how it was compiled So we're gonna bracket off some things So first thing you're going to do is bracket off 1st Nephi all the way to the book of Omni.
So from 1st Nephi to Omni, all of those records came from these plates, or the small plates of Nephi. That's the more religious record, or Nephi's ministry. Then, bracket off words of Mormon down to Mormon. All of those books, Words of Mormon, Mosiah, Alma, Helaman, 3rd Nephi, 4th Nephi, and Mormon come from the other plates, or the large plates of Nephi, which is a historical record.
Now while we're on this page, we're just going to also include this, right above 1st Nephi. If you just want to write in above 1st Nephi, write Book of Lehi. That's where the 116 pages would have been. So I've just added that in. Book of Lehi above 1st Nephi.
And then down where Ether is, just write plates of Ether. They were a separate account. And then Moroni, this is interesting, Moroni was part of the large plates. So just put other plates or large plates next to Moroni. And then, after Moroni, just put the fraction two thirds. Because the rest of the plates that were given to Joseph Smith were the sealed portion of the plates that he was not even allowed to look at or translate.
And of all the plates Joseph Smith received, two thirds of them were a sealed portion. Now, listen, we all know I'm not good at public math, or fractions for that matter, but I think two thirds is a pretty substantial amount. It's more than a half,
right?
Yes.
Yes. Okay. See, I don't even know that. You got that, yeah.
You got that right. So, there's that much that we still don't know any information about. And if you want to know a little bit more about the sealed portion, you can cross reference these verses of Scripture. 1 Nephi chapter 14 verses 18 through 27 and Ether chapter 3 verses 19 through 28. So let's go back to 1 Nephi chapter 9 and we are going to mark and read verse 5 and see what Nephi has to say about these and other plates, which are separate records.
So Sharon, will you please read verse 5 for us?
[00:21:31] Sharon Staples: Chapter 9 verse 5, Wherefore the Lord hath commanded me to make these plates for a wise purpose in him, which purpose I know not.
[00:21:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, just sum up Nephi's words in your own thoughts. What are you, what's going through your mind right here with this?
[00:21:49] Sharon Staples: Um, God told me to do something and I don't know why.
[00:21:56] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: But I need to do it anyway. That's right. As you were reading that, I was thinking about, um, something that President Irene has said to create our own Book of Remembrance or our own Book of Revelation. And I was talking to somebody and they thought, Oh, it doesn't matter if I write down my experiences.
Well, maybe we need to write them down for which wise purpose we know not. But maybe our children need to hear it. Maybe our grandchildren need to hear it, if I ever have some. Ha ha ha. Or, or maybe our other family members, or maybe ourselves. We need to be reminded. of the spiritual experiences that we have had, or we need to be reminded of the spiritual impressions that we received while we were reading verses, to be reminded of how the Lord works with us.
I mean, just like me reading back through my journal on Lehi's track. Oh, what a sweet experience that was for me again. Because I recorded it, and I was so thankful that I did. So sometimes we don't know why.
[00:23:08] Sharon Staples: Well, the precedent was set by Adam in the Garden of Eden. Why are you doing this, Adam? I know not, save the Lord hath commanded me.
I mean, that started right at the beginning.
[00:23:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, thank you ladies for your thoughts. I mean, God really is good and he knows all things and has prepared a way to accomplish all of his purposes, which I have to be reminded of. It's his purposes. You know, and speaking of purposes, he has got big plans for Lehi and Sariah and their family, which are a wise purpose in him.
But I got to be honest, those purposes did not make sense to everyone in the family. So we're going to dig into that in the next segment.
Segment 3
---
[00:23:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, Gaylamarie. So your degrees are in education and family sciences, family life, education, human development. You've taught the eternal family class. So knowing this about you, when I read first Nephi chapter seven, I just thought there's no way we have to have her just teach this because it is. It's filled with just so much complexity and chaos and goodness. And I'm just going to turn the time over to you and talk to us about Lehi's family. Hit it.
[00:24:26] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: Awesome. Okay. So first I thought we could just do a really brief recap of the whole chapter of what's going on and then go back and I'd like to unpack three different ideas. So we first know that in verse one, Lehi is told that he needs to raise up seed, or in other words.
He needs grandchildren, great grandchildren, and great posterity, right? That has to happen, so he sends his son back to Jerusalem to ask the family of Ishmael to join them. Ishmael receives the confirmation that that's what the will of the Lord. They join them, but on the journey back, Laman and Lemuel and half of Ishmael's family start murmuring, start complaining, start, I mean, they give up, they want to turn back to Jerusalem and kind of give up the journey.
They, they get mad at Nephi for encouraging them. to move on and keep pressing forward and stay with their mission. They get so mad at him that they bind him up with cords and leave him to be devoured by elements. Well, Nephi prays for strength to be loosened from the bands. And he does receive divine strength to do so.
Laman and Lemuel witness the miracle and are humbled to seek Nephi's forgiveness. Nephi forgives them. They all give thanks. That's kind of the very brief mini version of all of chapter 7. Yes. So there are a lot of things happening here with family dynamics, but first, I want to look at three really important principles or ideas or things that we could talk about.
Number one, why does family matter? And two, how do we deal with imperfections? And three, how could we frankly forgive? As, as Nephi did. And so in starting off, why family matters, I'd like to go back to chapter six, verse four, right before this chapter seven. It says in verse four of Chapter six, for the fullness of mine.
Intent is that I may persuade men to come into the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, and be saved. That verse is a powerful verse. Here we are learning. That, about the Abrahamic covenant, the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He wants to persuade man to understand what all these blessings are really all about.
We have heard on numerous occasions this phrase, salvation is an individual matter, but exaltation is a family matter. It's a marriage matter. Well, it seems that Lehi has this opportunity to get a glimpse into what all of these blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob really are all about. That God is giving them the opportunity to follow after His pattern of marriage and family, to ultimately receive the same fullness of joy.
And so we look at, what is exaltation all about? And It, one of the three purposes of the Book of Mormon is to teach us this. It says right, you know, in the title, you know, that we have, we need to learn how God deals with us. We need to learn the convincing of Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, but then it says to know the covenants of the Lord.
That is an important part of our whole scriptural experience. To understand covenants, our connection to God and our connection to each other. In a statement by President Henry B. Eyring, he says, to live like the Father, not just live with the Father. Eternal life means to become like the Father and to live in families and happiness and joy forever.
Elder McConkey also said, celestial marriage is the gate to exaltation. It opens the door. Those who have a continuation of the family unit in eternity have exaltation. If the family unit does not continue in eternity, there's no exaltation, or in other words, there's no eternal life. By definition, eternal life is God's life.
It's the type, kind, status and quality of existence, which he enjoys as an exalted being. So there's a really important teaching right here. Why does family matter? Because it's about our understanding of eternal life and exaltation. It's not just about returning back to God's presence. We want to live with him again, but we also want to be like him, to become like him, to do his work.
And his kind of work is all about family. It's following after his same pattern of marriage and family and, and doing the kind of work that he does. So living in family units forever, creating an eternal posterity. That was beautiful. And here Lehi is just getting a glimpse of that. It's not good that you should be alone, which is the other part of this verse one.
So halfway through the verse, I'm just going to skip down, it says Lehi, it was not meet for him, Lehi, that he should take his family into the wilderness. Alone. I love how it included that word here, alone, because there is a stark contrast between the word alone and atone. They both have the same root word, one, but alone means all one, all by oneself.
It means to be isolated, to have no help, to have no one present. But the word atone means to become united or reconciled, and we have to say the good news of the atonement is that we are not alone. Here's an important part of this story where we're understanding that Lehi was not to be alone. His family was not to be alone, that God would be with them.
to learn how to become at one with God, but also how to become at one with each other, which is the beautiful part of the atonement in the process of becoming united with God to return back to his presence. But he also helps us to become at one. With each other in family units in marriage, how to become at one through our covenants that bind us to God, bind us to each other for the eternities, how to be at one with our children, our posterity, to be bound with him, not only to God, but to be bound to each other in our family units.
But the other part that I like about this is that he's teaching us how he also helps us to become united and unified and at one in the daily process, daily interactions right now. How he helps us to be united. How he helps us to partake of his goodness, his grace, his patience, his mercy, right now in this process of dealing with each other.
And so, that's the second thing that I really wanted to highlight about this chapter. We start off the Book of Mormon with a lot of messy family dynamics, messy relationships, conflict, laymen, and Lemuel, Murmury. I mean, going back and forth, we see, we see conflict in, in family. And that's one of the great tests I think that all of us can take away from this, of our mortal experiences, is that we have to learn how to deal with imperfections.
We have to deal with each other's imperfections, we have to deal with our own imperfections. And so, we can look at home and family and we can say, this is a great laboratory for Godhood. Home and family are a laboratory for Godhood because we learn how to partner with God in bringing his spirit children to this earth.
We partner with him in raising children in truth and righteousness. But thirdly, this is a great laboratory for Godhood because we learn how to put all these gospel principles into practice with each other when we're all imperfect, right? Right. Like patience. And kindness, and tolerance, and charity, and forgiveness.
And so, um, which is one of the things that, that we're learning here. Just one quick quote about this, and then I want to have us look at verse 8. This is Elder Bednar. He says, Marriage and family life, we learn and grow together as God intended. In our families, we cannot hide who we really are as we strive to become who we are destined to become.
In essence, a family is the mirror that helps us to become aware of imperfections and flaws we may not be able or want to acknowledge. No one knows us better than a spouse and other family members and other members of our family. Thus, family is the ultimate, mortal laboratory for the improving and perfecting of God's children.
Well, here in verse 8, Nephi is kind of giving a scolding to his older brothers, Laman and Lemuel, and he says, And now I, this is chapter 7, verse 8, And now I, Nephi, being grieved for the hardness of your hearts, therefore I spake unto them, saying, Even unto Laman and unto Lemuel, Behold, ye are mine elder brethren, and how is it that ye are so hard in your hearts as so blind in your minds?
That I, being your younger brother, should talk to you. Well, what do you think it means to be hard in our hearts and blind in our minds?
[00:35:18] Sharon Staples: Well, just that when, when we know the truth, and we're straying from the truth, and somebody reminds us of the truth, then we become hard hearted and And blind and not wanting to hear what that person says because we're living a different lifestyle, but we know what they are saying is true.
So he's saying to them, you know, you need to shape up and they're, they become angry because they've, they've learned the truth. They know the truth and yet they cannot live it or don't, they choose not to live it. They've strayed. And so they have to become hard hearted and adamant and strong in their own unhealthy beliefs.
Yeah. That's what I think. Yeah.
[00:36:17] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: Gosh, I love that,
[00:36:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Sharon, because in just the next three verses or four verses after that, even Nephi's like, how did you forget? Like he's trying to help them remember, like you used to believe this or, or just three chapters ago, you saw an angel. Or however, I mean, three chapters ago, but could have been a couple years.
We don't really know. But that's the idea. It's just three chapters ago. They saw an angel. He's like, how could you have forgotten? Come on already, just get it together. So, and I wonder how, because. Earlier, we talked about how Nephi, it says that he had a hard heart. It said that the Lord softened his heart, which implies it was hard.
And so then I wonder, at some point, Nephi might have forgotten a little bit, and that the Lord did soften his heart so that he could follow the words of his father. So I like how you say this, Gaylamarie. It is. It is a laboratory for everyone. There's nobody immune from this petri dish. There's no one immune from the petri dish of hard heartedness.
We all are going to be affected by it.
[00:37:16] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: And when I think of these words to be, you know, hard in our hearts and blind in our minds, I mean, the word pride, you know, this just certainly comes to my mind. Elder Maxwell says, Pride not only isolates one from others, but alas from himself and his possibilities. I think pride, pride does isolate us from others and it does isolate us from our possibilities of growing.
We become blind of, of what we're doing to others. We, and it disconnects us in our relationships for sure.
[00:37:52] Sharon Staples: Because it's all about us instead of them. Yeah. We focus on, we focus on ourselves. We focus on me, me, my, my, my, my, you know, instead of what can I do to help this person or, you know, what's, what's out there that's true or, you know, how can I think outside the box or, but, you know, we just, it, pride is all about us.
[00:38:14] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: Yes. Don't you love the scripture in Matthew 7, where it talks about the motes and the beams? Mm hmm. Yes. It says, you know, first we have to cast out the beam out of our own eye, and then we shall see clearly how to cast out the mote. out of somebody, but in size comparison, a moat is just like a splinter in comparison to a beam that's like a, you know, a log.
Yeah, right. And, um, but we only see clearly how to look at somebody else's behavior, only first and foremost, until we've have addressed our own behavior and what we can do. Exactly. Well, the third thing that I wanted to look at is verse 21. This is after Laman and Lemuel humble themselves, they realize, you know, what they have done, and they ask for forgiveness.
And Nephi says, this is verse 21, And it came to pass that I did frankly forgive them all that they had done, and I did exhort them that they would pray unto the Lord their God for forgiveness. When I look at this word, forgiveness, I think it's interesting, because the word itself, forgive, means it's a gift that we are giving to someone.
I have a gift for you. In Spanish, the word forgive is perdonar, which means to give a gift. So when we forgive someone, we are giving a gift of our heart and mind. My husband always says, can we be kind and giving and kind and forgiving? And so when I look at forgiveness, I think forgiveness and humility seem to be best friends.
They work together, they progress together, they need each other, they heal together. Forgiveness is, is buddies with humility. But the word frankly, don't you think it's interesting there? How he didn't just say he forgave them, but it says, He frankly forgave them, and frankly, at least for me, it implies doing it without hesitation.
Um, or with an astonishing level of charity. I don't know, what else do you, are there other thoughts that come to you about what it means, frankly? To frankly forgive? What does that imply to you?
[00:40:52] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I looked up the definition in the 1828 Webster's Dictionary, because that's the classic one we want to use when we study the Book of Mormon.
And the word frankly then meant openly, freely, without reserve, or readily. But then I applied it to what you just taught us, Gaylamarie. When I give a present to someone, I am so excited to give that to them. Like, I've thought about what I'm going to get them and I wrap it up. That's my love language. I love giving presents to people.
I've never once given a gift with reservation. I've never given someone a present Kind of hesitantly, like, I don't really want to give it to you, or I really want to keep it for myself. Like, I'm so excited to give it to them, and so now I'm thinking of forgiveness. I don't know that I've ever been that way so much with my forgiveness.
I think there is some reservation when I forgive someone. Like, I'll forgive you. It's going to take me some time. I, you know, but I want to get to the point where I openly, freely, readily, excitedly. Forgive someone. Like a gift. I like how you frame that as giving a gift.
[00:41:50] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: Yes. And on the other hand, don't you love how Elder Uchtdorf talked about being great, um, good and grateful receivers of gifts?
Not only are we good gift givers, but we have to ask ourselves if we are good gift receivers. So if Christ is willing to forgive us, to give us a gift, of forgiveness, that gift of heart and mind that we so openly give, you know, because isn't that what forgiveness is, is that, that gift of our heart and mind?
If he is so willing to forgive us, do we recognize, are we good and grateful receivers of his forgiveness? Are we good and grateful receivers of others forgiveness? But, um, Nephi, I think he is a great example I've really showing this incredible humility, you know, when I look at humility, I just think of aligning his will with the will of God.
Um, he's more concerned with doing what is right than if it is convenient, easier, challenge free. He seems to be more concerned with loving his brothers with the Lord and for the Lord than hanging onto the anger of what they did to him. He depends on the Lord for strength and courage and forgiveness. To have the Lord give him forgiveness, to receive his kind of forgiveness.
And don't we all depend on the Lord sometimes when we're hurt, sometimes when someone has acted poorly, sometimes when we have been mistreated, that we depend on the Lord's kind of love, his kind of forgiveness. Elder Packer, President Packer shared a beautiful thought about this. He said, The Lord provides ways to pay our debts to Him.
In one sense, we ourselves may participate in an atonement. When we are willing to restore to others that which we have not taken, or heal wounds that we did not inflict, or pay a debt that we did not incur, we are emulating Amen. His part of the atonement. So one day I looked at my students and I read him this quote and I said, so what does that mean to you to emulate his forgiveness or emulate his atonement?
And one student said, I could wash dishes that I didn't dirty. Another, the clean up messes that I didn't make. Another, I can forgive someone who made no apology. Or somebody else, if my roommate drives me crazy, I can be patient anyway. Or I can serve them anyway. I can be a good example anyway. Um, someone, instead of being easily offended, maybe I look for the need, the real need behind that.
Um, well, there's something powerful, I think, when we, when we try to emulate the Savior's Atonement. When we ask for His help, when we ask for His love, and He shows up and He gives it to us in most powerful ways, and not only does it heal our hearts, it heals the other person's heart, too.
[00:45:15] Sharon Staples: Wonderful. That's so, that's so good.
My gosh. That was a wonderful, touching. and enhancing for me and confirming for me what you just said of explaining all of that. Thank you. That was great.
[00:45:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. I will ditto that. I have never looked at Chapter 7 that way before. I haven't either. Thank you. That is awesome. So thank you. And I like how you started us out by saying all of this happened on their way home.
Like they aren't even with Lehi and Sariah yet, and this is their second time gone. And so they're on their way home, and when they get back to the tent of their father, something remarkable happens. And so we're going to talk about that in the next segment.
Segment 4
---
[00:46:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, let's turn to First Nephi chapter eight, verse two, and we're going to mark two things in this verse. And so Sharon, will you read verse two for us?
[00:46:18] Sharon Staples: And it came to pass that while my father tarried in the wilderness, he spake unto us saying, Behold, I have dreamed a dream, or in other words, I have seen a vision.
[00:46:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, uh, let's just go ahead and highlight dream to dream. This is a Hebraism, you guys. There's another one. I told you I was going to show you these in the Book of Mormon. This is awesome. Okay, the phraseology, phrasing right there, dreamed a dream in Hebrew is called a cognate accusative. This is when a verb and an object share the same root or origin.
So we have the verb, dreamed, and we have the noun, dream. So he dreamed a dream. Now you will read this wording in Genesis chapter 37 verse 5, so you can put that reference next to verse 2. In Genesis 37 verse 5, Joseph of Egypt says, I dreamed a dream. So it's in the Old Testament. So in Hebrew, oftentimes, Things will be explained this way, a verb and a noun connecting.
We wouldn't say this. We would never say, I would never say to my husband, I dreamed a dream last night and it was crazy. I would just say, I had the craziest dream, right? Or you wouldn't believe the dream that I had. But here is Lehi saying, I dreamed a dream. Now other cool examples, and these will be in our show notes, but in Genesis chapter one verse 11 in the King James version, it says, let the earth bring forth grass.
But in Hebrew, it says, let the earth grass grass. Isn't that cool? Genesis chapter 9 verse 14, King James says, when I bring a cloud, but Hebrew says, I will cloud a cloud. And another example is in the book of Numbers chapter 30 verse 2, it says to swear an oath. But in Hebrew, the translation is swear a swearing.
So that's originally what it should say, but the people translating King James were like, this is, why would I put, let the earth grass grass? So they translate it to what we understand, let the earth bring forth grass. So there's our little Hebraism as we go into this vision or this dream that Lehi had.
And I asked my guests to read the dream. We are not going to go over every single item and what it means. You can use the, um, you can use the Book of Mormon Institute and Seminary Manual to do that. And we did that last year. We're taking a different approach. Again, we're looking at the family. We're looking at the father, the patriarch having this dream.
And I asked my guests to just come and share with us, what did you see this time? What stood out to you from this dream that you hadn't noticed before? So talk to me. What do you got?
[00:48:53] Sharon Staples: For me, it's the significance of prayer. We are to pray, if we want to overcome the darkness, the evil waters, hell, the spacious building, whatever.
We have to pray to overcome those things. We can't just say, oh. I'm not going to do that today, or that doesn't interest me now, or I'm not going to do that. You have to, you have to commune with the Father. It's, it's, it's essential, it's necessary, it's pertinent, it's all the things that, all the positive words we can think of.
Prayer. is the gateway to our overcoming everything. Overcoming darkness. Overcoming evil. Overcoming our neighbor who's nasty. Overcoming, I mean, we have to, and I, and I said this in our Sunday school class on Sunday. I, I said, I will bet my next pizza that the people in this room will pray, have their morning prayers with their family, read the scriptures, and then at night they may have morning prayers, but do they pray before they go to the grocery store?
That they'll find someone there, or be kind there when they wouldn't be. When they take their car in to be lubed, they pray before they leave the house and say, Help me to be kind to those people at the car dealership, even though they messed up last time. I mean, we don't pray constantly. And Brother Boyd K.
Packer says we need to. And, well, all of the General Authorities say we need to. So, for me, It was the significance of prayer in my overcoming my weaknesses, my stumbling blocks, my hang ups that get in my way, and I need to do it more than twice a day, and the blessing on the food. You know, I need to be conscious of who I'm going to represent when I step out my door.
When I take his name upon me, I need to be aware of that, so that people will see in my countenance. His kindness.
[00:51:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Sharon, thank you. Great insight.
[00:51:14] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: One of the things that stood out to me was verse 10. You just mentioned this. It came to pass that I beheld a tree whose fruit was desirable to make one happy.
We know that the fruit represents the love of God. So I say, the love of God is desirable. To us, or that fruit is desirable because it makes us happy. The Lord's love makes me happy. His love, his peace, his comfort, it makes me happy. It motivates me. It keeps me grounded, keeps me centered, keeps me motivated to keep turning back to him because his love makes me happy.
I just, I just love that. In verse 12, it refers to the same thing. And as I partook of the fruit there, thereof, it filled my soul with exceedingly great joy. Wherefore, I began to be desirous that my family should partake of it also, for I knew that it was desirable above all other fruit. In Hebrews 12, we also read that Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith, and then it says.
Who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross. Christ did what he did for the joy that would be made possible for you and me. I, I, I just love that. He did what he did. He is who he is. And because of his love, we experience incredible joy. That's, that's one thing that stood out into my mind.
The other thing that, that stood out was in verse four. Um, where it says that Laman and Lemuel, um, they're encountering this dark and dreary wilderness and I have to share an experience that I had this week with one of my students and she said, we, we've been talking about roles of men and women and fathers and mothers in our class this week, and she said, I know, but I didn't grow up with a good father.
I didn't grow up with a good example. I didn't grow up with a father who was loving and nurturing, so what about me?
Or in other words, we could say, here is Lehi, you know, beckoning Laman and Namuel to come to the tree, but I have a student who's saying, wait a minute. But I don't have a father who is doing that. I don't have a father who is showing me the way through this dark and dreary wilderness. I don't have somebody who's saying, here's the fruit, here's the tree, here's the path, here's the rod of iron, here's where it is.
Don't worry that you're lost. I'll help you. I'll show you the way. So what about me? And, and I just, as I, as I prayed about her thought, her question, I thought about it. Today I had the opportunity to meet with her and, and I actually discussed this with my whole class, that I believe, as it says in Doctrine and Covenants 84 88, I will be on your right hand, on your left hand, my angels round about you to bear you up, that the Lord sends us help.
We don't have somebody helping us, saying, here's the rod of iron, here's the path, this is what the tree looks like, this is what the fruit tastes like. Sometimes we have to skip over maybe those mortal earthly parents and skip right to our heavenly parents. And He will send us people in our path to love us, to encourage us, to give us that guidance and that support.
And maybe that comes in, in the pathway of a bishop, or of a ministering brother or sister, or from an extended family member, or from a friend. But what we do know is that He sends help because of the atoning sacrifice of the Savior. He will compensate for all the heartache and pain and injustice and fairness that we encounter in life, and He will help us through others or through the voice that He sends to us personally through our own dedicated discipleship.
He will help us find. The iron rod, he will help us find the path. He will help us get to the tree and partake of his fruit, his love, his comfort, his strength that is so powerful.
[00:56:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Gaylamarie I like how much when you said, And what I, what I heard was, we've got to depend on the Lord. We might not have a caring parent beckoning us to come, but he's beckoning us to come to the tree, which is the love of God.
It hit me because earlier, before we started recording, I was talking to Sharon about some things that stood out to her. Will you just share your thoughts on that? Verse 30.
[00:56:26] Sharon Staples: Well, yeah, there, we're told in, in verses 21 through 34 of chapter eight, that there are four groups of people. And one of the groups is those who, um, hold fast to the iron rod and then they fall down.
Well, they fall down because they are going to their knees to worship. They, they didn't just fall over and get back up. It was an act of, of honor and respect and worship. And then to partake of the fruit and then stay. They stayed there. They didn't drift off. They stayed near the tree. But part of their homage was falling to their knees, which I think is tender.
[00:57:22] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: I think that's so beautiful. And don't you also think that, um, when we look at this analogy, We, we learned so much from each other, from all of the mists of darkness that we may be going through or feeling like we're in, you know, a dark and dreary wilderness. We learned so much and gained so much strength from our next door neighbor and from our friends or from a parent or from a sibling of this is, this is when I felt Like, I was going through mists of darkness or dark and dreary world, and this is what helped me.
Um, my, my neighbor said, you know, she grew up with a very difficult background, and she said, I could be sad about it. And then I decided what I was going to do is I was going to learn from everybody around me to see what had helped them stay strong. What helped them to create a healthy family, to have a healthy marriage, because I didn't have that growing up.
And she goes, I learned so much from all the goodness, talent, and strength around me. Well, we learned so much from, from how else is everybody around us encountering this? What can we learn from everybody, from all the goodness around us of how to hang on to that rod? of how to stay on that covenant path.
We learned so much from each other's goodness. Boy, we do. We do.
[00:58:57] Sharon Staples: And I think we, when I look at, when they talk about the, the great and spacious building and the people were mocking, and I used to think, well, I'm not in the great and spacious building, but do I mock? Well, hello? Do I make fun of, do I talk against somebody else's back?
Do I make fun of somebody who's not of my faith? Do I make fun of somebody who thinks differently than I do? Am I mocking? And I had to say to myself, Okay, you're not in the building, but you're also not free of doing what the people in the building do. So, you need to look at your behavior, not just your location.
So, not finding myself in the building, I also needed to look at, well, but how, how are you behaving towards your neighbor? Like Gaylamarie says, how are you looking out for your neighbor and learning from your neighbor and appreciating your neighbor instead of saying, nan or nan or nan, or, you know, it's that.
So, But for me, it's dissecting, um, location and behavior in that instance with the building.
[01:00:11] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: And don't you think that problem is particularly manifested in social media? That we're so worried about what other people think of us? Absolutely.
[01:00:21] Sharon Staples: Oh my gosh. It's just legion. It's just everywhere. That's why Well, I try not to go on to social media.
I try not to do anything that way because it's so intimidating to what I think I really believe, you know, and I think I don't want to believe that. I don't want to hear that. I don't want to see that.
[01:00:41] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: It's a huge problem, particularly with youth. Yes.
[01:00:44] Sharon Staples: Yeah, you're absolutely right. Yeah. Wow.
[01:00:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, so let's do this.
Let's take everything we just talked about, and in the next segment, we're going to apply it to one thing that Lehi did that I think we all can learn from, and I'm really excited to hear your input and your thoughts on this one thing that he did. We'll do that next.
Segment 5
---
[01:01:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We're going to mark a word that I found three times in this dream. In 1st Nephi chapter 8, it's in verse 19, verse 20, and verse 21. It's what Lehi did in his dream that just stood out to me. In verse 19 it starts, Gaylamarie, will you read that for us please?
[01:01:29] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: And I beheld the rod of iron, and it extended along the bank of the river, and led to the tree by which I stood.
[01:01:36] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay there, turn, read verse 20 for us.
[01:01:39] Sharon Staples: And I also beheld a straight and narrow path, which came along by the rod of iron, even to the tree by which I stood, and it also led by the head of the fountain, unto a large and spacious field, as if it had been a world.
[01:01:54] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. And then verse 21, and I saw numberless concourses of people, many of whom were pressing forward, that they might obtain the path which led into the tree by which I stood.
Let's highlight every time he stood in verse 19, 20, and 21. He stood. I think the reason this struck me is because in my mind. I'm imagining if Lehi is such a kind and loving parent, he would have gone out after and just pulled people along. Like what is so significant that Lehi just continued, he just said, I stood by the tree.
I stood by the tree. There is a conference talk by Kevin W. Pearson in 2015, and the title of his talk is Stay by the Tree. And his whole thing is how Lehi stayed by the tree. In fact, we're going to read this quote, and then I want to get your thoughts on this idea.
[01:02:42] Sharon Staples: Lehi's message is to stay by the tree.
We stay because we are converted unto the Lord. Alma taught, quote, Behold, he changed their hearts, yea, he awakened them out of a deep sleep, and they awoke unto God, close quote. As we yield our hearts to God, The Holy Ghost changes our very natures. We become deeply converted unto the Lord, and we no longer seek the spacious building.
If we stop doing those things that bring about deepening conversion, we regress spiritually. Apostasy is the reverse of conversion.
[01:03:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, Sharon. So, talk to me about this. How do you stay by the tree when you're in a family? And how, I mean, in my mind I want to just run and grab everybody and pull them to me.
Talk to me about this idea how he stood.
[01:03:38] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: I, I think your question is a really awesome question. What does it mean to stand by the tree? If in this case, if you're like me and you have some family members who are not on the path, not holding on to the rod. To me, it seems like if our children aren't experiencing or recognizing God's love or partaking of that fruit right now, our love for them.
We'll prepare them to recognize God's love when they're ready. And so standing at the tree, giving an abundance of love to our children, staying true to our covenants, finding hope through our covenants, to me is standing by the tree. Absolutely. And that is definitely a position that I'm in right now, and my covenants give me great hope.
Loving my family members is the most overwhelmingly right thing I feel like I need to do right now to stand. by the tree and to partake and share God's love for him, with him, like him, in some way, hoping that they will be ready someday to partake of the fruit themselves. The prophet Joseph said, when a seal is put upon the father and a mother, it secures their posterity so that they cannot be lost, but will be saved by virtue of the covenant of their father and mother.
Orson F. Whitney. So it says, You parents of Wilford and Wayward, don't give up on them. Don't cast them off. They're not utterly lost. The shepherd will find his sheep. They were his before they were yours, long before he entrusted, entrusted them to your care, and you cannot begin to love them as he loves them.
They have been strayed in the ignorance of the path of right, perhaps, and God is merciful to ignorance. Only the fullness of knowledge brings the fullness of accountability. Our Heavenly Father is far more merciful, infinitely more charitable than even the best of his servants, and the everlasting gospel is mightier, mightier in power to save than our narrow, finite minds can comprehend.
Well, if you're like me, sometimes you realize that standing by the tree means That you try to love for the Lord and try to love with Him and like Him. You hang on to your covenants, you focus more on the joy that your children bring to you instead of what they don't do, what they can do instead of what they're not doing.
You praise them well for what they're doing well instead of what you wish they were doing perhaps. I love that. Focus on the joy they bring into your lives instead of ways they disappoint you, perhaps. Focus on who they really are, who they are at this moment, instead of who they are not yet in your book, in your eyes.
Focus on what you can do within your own agency, instead of trying to change their agency or determine what they should do. Because none of us can Control or manipulate anybody else's behavior. I guess for all of us what we try to do is to emulate and share our belief in them by our attitudes, who they really are in God's eyes by the way that we treat them.
[01:07:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. That is incredible hope. Those quotes you read at the beginning and everything you just said and now I'm thinking back to the story you shared with us about the young girl who didn't have a good parent. So here's my question then. Do the blessings of staying by the tree apply to people on the other side of the veil?
Meaning, if we're doing work for our ancestors, can they still choose to stay by the tree if they didn't choose in this life? Is there a chance to do that and receive the blessings?
[01:07:50] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: I think that's an absolute yes in my book. Yeah, right?
[01:07:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I have chills right now. Because you were talking about people on the other side of the veil.
And so if you didn't have very good parents That's maybe why we do genealogy work. So the blessings of our ancestors who are choosing to stay by the tree on the other side of the veil will benefit us today.
[01:08:12] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: Don't we have a whole host of angels round about us to bear us up who are our own family members who have passed away.
Yeah. Filling, partaking of the love of God. And wanting to share it with us.
[01:08:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, there's a plug for genealogy right there.
[01:08:31] Sharon Staples: And I think we have to invite them though. I think, and I've said this before, is that like if I'm doing initiatory, And I have, you know, Sharon Staples, and I'm doing her work. I need to, when I sit down in that chair, say, Sharon, this is for you.
Please pay attention. You're going to be washed. I get into the next booth. Sharon, pay attention. You're going to be anointed. Pay attention to these blessings. I talk to them. I think, I think we can't just go and sit and say, yeah, you know, I'm doing it for Carmelita Rough Gut or for Sharon Staples or whoever.
I think we have to invite them. And if we're going through an endowment, um, pay attention to this, Sharon, because this is important and you'll need to know it later. Or, you know, this is important, you need to know it when. So for me, I need, I need, I need to do the work for them, I want to do the work for them, I love them, and I want them to partake of the fruit, and, and I want to stand there for them.
And when I'm standing by sitting in the endowment session or standing by sitting in initiatory or standing by sitting at the altar in, in sealing, I need to be aware of them, not me. Does my slip show or my shoes shined right? Does that woman really have on that size of a diamond and is she really wearing that to the endowment?
I mean, we, it's, it's a matter of for me, standing. Mm hmm. And, and I need to stand in all of those covenantal procedures, because at the end of the day, I feel like I stood by them when they were listening to, and eventually will do, an answer to yes to all that. I have hopefully performed with attention to them.
[01:10:42] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: Tammy, I just have to say too, when you, when you brought that image up of our ancestors standing at the tree, um, my, when I was a young girl, my mom made me a pedigree chart, a picture pedigree chart of six generations, and it has all of these pictures on it in a pedigree chart for, for me to see their faces.
And at the top of it, I have My help from heaven because not, not only do I have all these pictures of these ancestors, but my, my mom and my dad and my sister and brother and three nephews and my mother in law and father in law have all passed away. So I have their names all on the same pedigree chart as my help from heaven of all of those who have passed on, who are pleading in my behalf, who are there as you mentioned.
At the tree, representing that love, trying to share that love of the Lord, his fruit, his goodness, his power and his strength with us, which is super powerful on a daily basis for me personally.
[01:11:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, thank you for sharing that about your pedigree chart. That is awesome. How fun is that? Well, and going back to what Sharon said, so Sharon, the next time I go to the temple, My prayer will be for the name that I'm doing, please, please, your family needs you to stand by the tree.
Like take this opportunity. They need you. And then I'm imagining my own, I'm like, I'm imagining my own ancestors or the ancestors of your student, Gaylamarie in verse in first Nephi chapter eight, verse 15. This is what stood out to me. And it came to pass that I beckoned on him. This is Lehi talking, or this is Lehi talking, I beckoned unto them.
And I also did say unto them with a loud voice. That they should come unto me and partake of the fruit, like he's staying by the tree, but I just always imagined Lehi being this calm and demure man who doesn't speak very loud. I don't know. And I'm just imagining him yelling with a loud voice, come and partake of the fruit.
And then I think of generations, countless generations who are yelling from the other side of the veil to come to the tree. And that is where our parents come in. If you didn't have good parents in this life, that's okay. You got great ancestors who are choosing to stand by the tree. And then us in this life to stay, to just stay and stand by the tree.
And I love Gaylamarie, how you talked about the idea is love and just loving our family members that I need to hear that. So thank you so much for sharing that. It was beautiful. Okay. So, in the next segment, we'll continue on with what else Lehi had to say and a prophecy that he gave that won't happen for 600 more years.
We'll do that in the next segment.
Segment 6
---
[01:13:41] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Turn with us to 1st Nephi chapter 10 verse 4. And as we read verse 4, we're going to find out what prediction or prophecy that Lehi gave. Sharon, will you please read for us 1st Nephi chapter 10 verse 4.
[01:13:55] Sharon Staples: Yes, yea, even six hundred years from the time that my father left Jerusalem, a prophet would the Lord God raise up among the Jews, even a Messiah, or in other words, a savior of the world.
[01:14:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: There's the prophecy, six hundred years from that time, that there would be a Messiah. A Savior of the world. This is awesome. Bracket off then verses two, well, you can go back to verse two, but pretty much all of this chapter, verses two through 16. Asked my guests to read those and come prepared to answer this question that's in the Come Follow Me manual. And I just thought it was perfect. So we're going to use it. Why do you think the Lord would want Lehi's family and all of us to know the truths? In chapter 10, verses 2 through 16, tell me what you marked and why you think we need to know that. We'll start with you, Gaylamarie. Go ahead.
[01:14:51] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: Okay. Well, verse 6, Wherefore, all mankind were in a lost and in a fallen state, and ever would be, save they should rely on this Redeemer.
That last phrase there, that they should rely on this Redeemer. Isn't that a message of the entire Book of Mormon? I had a, a student in our study abroad group who said, Do you know, I'm, I'm bisexual. I have a lot of questions about, um, gender, doctrine on gender, about family doctrine, the plan of salvation.
I don't understand all the church policies. I don't have all the answers. And then she said, but what I do know is I feel hope in Christ, and I'm not willing to give that up. And after she said that, I just wanted to hug her to death. I'm like, do you realize how powerful that is? Do you realize how powerful that statement is?
None of us have all the answers. But for her to say, but what I do know is I feel hope in Christ and I am not willing to give that up. Isn't there a greater message, could there possibly be a greater message from the Book of Mormon than to rely on our Redeemer to find hope in Him? Whatever it is that we're encountering, whatever our issue is, to rely on that, the love and power and strength we experience.
That hope that we experience, that is powerful. That's an anchor.
[01:16:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That is powerful. I felt it when you said that. That is awesome.
[01:16:52] Sharon Staples: Thank you. I was fixated on verses 17 through 19, 20, 21, um, in 17, um, it says, uh, And I, Nephi, having heard all the words of my father concerning the things which he saw in a vision and also the things which he spake by the power of the Holy Ghost.
And then further down, it says, I, Nephi, was desirous also that I might see and hear and know the things by the power of the Holy Ghost. So, it seems to me, and then in 19, and I'll get to that, For he that diligently seeketh shall find. And the mysteries of God shall be unfolded to them by the power of the Holy Ghost.
Verse 22. And the Holy Ghost giveth authority that I should speak these things and deny them not.
I was overcome and overwhelmed at the significance that Nephi gave. to the powers of the Holy Ghost as he learned from his father, and he spoke of the Savior by the power of the Holy Ghost. I think the Holy Ghost gets short shift. I'm, uh, I need to pay more attention to him, more attention to what he can do and will do, and that if I continually pray, As we're taught in these scriptures that we've learned today, continually pray to stay out of darkness, but have that constant companion, and talk to the Holy Ghost, and invite the Holy Ghost, and love the Holy Ghost.
I just think, for me personally, I do not give him the power in my life that he deserves. And that he can use in my behalf.
[01:19:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I think that made us all question that. Wow.
[01:19:12] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: Can I add one comment that you, about that? I mean, that is such a beautiful reminder about the Holy Ghost. I was listening to, um, Sister Fiona Givens on something she said.
She said, I believe that all three members of the Godhead, Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Work collaboratively to minister to our needs. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. harmoniously to minister to our needs. Right. Altogether as one mm-Hmm. One purpose. Um, but I, I love the thought of the role of each member of the Godhead, of how.
They, they work together to help us, to support us, um, to minister to our needs. Anyway, sorry, I just wanted to add that in. No, I
[01:20:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: think that's beautiful, and when you said that, I, I, in my mind, I went, the role of God, the role of Jesus Christ, the role of Holy Ghost, it is to teach us all things. So of course he would allow Nephi to see, hear, and know.
Isn't that interesting that that was the, the Holy Ghost would be the one to help him? Great. The Holy Ghost teaches and brings all things to our remembrance and testifies of God and Jesus Christ. Exactly. Wow, that was good. Thank you. Keep going if you've got more.
[01:20:34] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: One of the, one of the other verses that really stood out to me this time was verse 14.
14. After the house of Israel shall be scattered, they shall be gathered, they shall be gathered, Together again or in find after the Gentiles had received the fullness of the gospel, the natural branches of the olive tree or the remnants of the house of Israel shall be grafted in or come to the knowledge of their true messiah, their Lord, and their redeemer.
There's something powerful about gathering, and here, I mean. This analogy of the tree of life, it seems like we are being taught how the Lord gathers us one by one, one by one to partake of his fruit, and here in, in chapter 10, it seems like he's teaching us how the Lord gathers us one by one to partake of his fruit, and here in, in chapter 10, it seems like he's Like, we've moved from how individually that happens to how collectively that happens.
He helps us individually one on one, and he helps us collectively as his people, um, in gathering the 12 tribes of Israel, and gathering us together as his people to partake of his goodness and strength, to gather us in covenants. I mean, we look at just our, our membership of the church each week. We go to church, not to worship just individually, which it helps us individually, we gather together to feel the strength and the goodness of each other.
We don't, he doesn't have us partake of the sacrament alone in our homes. We go to church to partake and gather, we gather together to partake of that, that sacred moment. as one. And even when during the Last Supper, I mean, don't you find it interesting that he didn't go one by one to have them partake of the sacrament, but he gathered them together to do it together.
Ooh, I like that. To experience that gathering together, to experience that spiritual experience together. Um, I think there's Something very powerful in our, in our connections, you know, going back to that at oneness, at one with him, at one with each other, unity and connection. You know, Brene Brown, who always says the heart of spirituality is connection.
There's something powerful in that, you know, our connections with each other.
[01:23:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You know, Gaylamarie, as you were talking, it took me to the thing that stood out to me was in verse four, this idea of connection and togetherness. Um, because yeah, one by one and then collectively, I like how you keep us coming back to being together because in verse four, what really stood out to me this time, and I've never noticed it before, it says, yeah, even, and we read this, yeah, even 600 years from the time that my father left Jerusalem, a prophet with the Lord God raised up among the Jews, even a Messiah, or in other words, here it is, or in other words, A savior of the world.
So I look, I highlighted savior of the world and I looked it up. So this term or, or wording for Jesus Christ, it is only found one other time in the book of Mormon. And then we only read it in the New Testament twice, and it's spelled S A V I O U R, if you want to look that up, and it's found in the book of John, and then 1 John.
And I just think this is really neat, because I wonder, when Joseph Smith was translating, And he saw a savior of the world in the Book of Mormon in his translation process. If that kind of just stuck in his brain, because you will see it come back in the Doctrine and Covenants. And when he was receiving revelations, it was just, he knew this, this term to describe Jesus Christ.
And here he is teaching us something so profound. We get to learn about the Messiah in chapter 10, and he is going to be the savior of the world. That's a lot of togetherness. That's a lot of people that he knows one by one. And so if he knows us one by one, he has all the qualifications to be the savior of the world.
And I like how Elder Holland talked about this phrase, the word savior. It's in his book. Um, I'm a witness for his names, but he said that the word save, and I thought this was really cool. He says to save means to preserve, protect, or deliver one from danger. And then Elder Holland says he does this for every single person who's ever lived.
He preserves us, he protects us, and he delivers us from danger. And when you shared that story about your student who's trying to figure things out, even that person, you bet that's one of the many in his world that he will save. And when you think about the idea of saving, like you save someone from a burning building or you save someone from being hurt, like it's so heroic.
And there's nothing more heroic than being the savior of the world. That's a lot of people. So,
I mean, I think my family's a lot of people. Oy vey. This idea of togetherness. I like how you brought this back, like being together, being one and having a savior for all of us. Thank you. Thank you both of you so much.
Thank you to both of you. That was an incredible discussion about 1 Nephi chapter 6 through 10. I loved it. Thank you for coming so well prepared. So do this really quickly. Just gather your thoughts. Is there anything specific you'll take away from this discussion today or anything that has struck you as we've talked and you just share a quick little sentence about that and then we're done.
[01:26:15] Sharon Staples: Oh my gosh, quick little sentence. Yeah, quick little sentence for chapters 6 through 10. Um, there's just too many. It can't be a quick little sentence. I mean, this, these chapters are so packed with, uh, what we've talked about so far. So I would just have to say, um, as Brother Packer, advised us to do in one of his conference talks, read the story of Lehi's vision again, and again, and again, and again, because it talks about all of us.
And what we're all subject to and maybe going through, so you need to read and, and understand what Lehi is talking about in his vision. So I would just echo Brother Packer's words and say, read it again and again and again. You will find so much with regards to everything we've talked about. And I, I won't take the time to name them all, we did already.
[01:27:27] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Great advice, Sharon. Read it again and again and again. I agree completely. Thank you.
[01:27:35] Gaylamarie Rosenberg: I would just add to know, I think our, our mortal journey is just messy in so many ways and can be challenging and we can be confused and we can feel like we're in the dark. But Christ is the light of life, and I know that His path brings me personally so much hope and happiness, and that fruit that we partake of, His love.
Makes me happy. And it is the greatest motivator, the greatest incentive. It is the anchor that just keeps us going. And we all need each other to remind each other, to help each other along the path, to remind each other of his love and his peace and comfort that is available for each one of us. But that, that message of, of hope. that we receive from his love that we feel on a daily basis is just super powerful.
[01:28:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. My takeaway is what you just said, Gaylamarie, when you talked about, and I wrote it down, to anchor ourselves in the Book of Mormon and find a meaningful verse. I thought, I loved that so much when you said it.
I'm like, anchor is the best word to describe what the Book of Mormon should be, an anchor for all of us. And Sharon, Going back to how you started us out, and Gaylamarie even reiterated this, obedience, love, forgiveness, repentance are all hard but worth it when it comes to family. So, thank you. Thank you to both of you. That was such a fun discussion. We're done. That's it. Thank you. Thank you. Wow.
[01:29:13] Sharon Staples: Yeah, that was great.
[01:29:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Well, did you have a takeaway? Go to our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram to share what you have learned. You can even ask questions, which I try to answer. And then at the end of the week on Sunday, we're going to post the question that we begin each episode with.
Which is, what has the Holy Ghost taught you this week as you studied the Book of Mormon? I cannot wait to read what you learned and what the Holy Ghost taught you. Comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.
com slash Sunday on Monday. And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, because listen, we're going to have the links to all of the references, which were many. The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Desert Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall.
And today our incredible study group participants were Sharon Staples and Gaylamarie Rosenberg. And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.
Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please, oh, please remember that the Savior of the world will save you because you are God's favorite.
​