11: “The Lord Was with Joseph” (Genesis 37–41)
Every family has stories that they don’t like to talk about. But when it comes to things like selling your brother as a slave into Egypt and lying about his death, Joseph’s brothers take uncomfortable family stories to a whole new level. But there are powerful lessons in this timeless story, and in today’s study of Genesis 34–41 we are going to study how these complex family stories impact us today.
“I love the scriptures because they show examples of great and noble men and women such as Abraham, Sarah, Enoch, Moses, Joseph, Emma, and Brigham. Each of them experienced adversity and sorrow that tried, fortified, and refined their characters” (Joseph B. Wirthlin, “Come What May, and Love It,” Ensign or Liahona, Nov. 2008, 27).
Ben-oni = Son of my affliction
Benjamin = Son of my right hand
Links: The song Abe sings from the musical, Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat: “Pharaoh’s Dream Explained”
“There is some question as to what Joseph’s coat actually was. The Hebrew word denotes ‘a long coat with sleeves … i.e. an upper coat reaching to the wrists and ankles, such as noblemen and kings’ daughters wore’ (Keil and Delitzsch, Commentary, 1:1:335; note also 2 Samuel 13:18, which says that the daughters of King David wore similar coats). It also may have been the badge of the birthright which had been forfeited by Reuben and transferred to Joseph’ (Wilson, Old Testament Word Studies, s.v. “colour,” p. 82)” (Old Testament Student Manual: Genesis–2 Samuel, 3rd ed. [Church Educational System manual, 2003], 93).
“The idea of a garment of many colors is an invention. If you look in your Bible every time it mentions many colors the word colors (even in the commentary) is in italics because it is put in there by modern editors. It's found in no ancient source. It's not a garment of many colors at all. A garment of certain marks is the term that's used here. We'll see what it is in a second. "This garment had belonged to Abraham, and it already had a long history." It's history was lengthy because it went back to the Garden of Eden, you see. That's the garment; it's the only one. Just as we treat the story of Cain and Abel, we trivialize this. We say, "Joseph was the youngest kid, so his father favored him and gave him a pretty garment of many colors." There is no mention in any ancient source of a garment of many colors. That's an invention of modern editors trying to explain it. But here it was the garment he gave him. It was the garment of the priesthood. No wonder they were jealous of him, they being the elder brothers and he the younger in the patriarchal line coming down from Abraham. This garment had belonged to Abraham and had come down to Joseph instead of to the other brethren” (Hugh Nibley, Teachings of the Book of Mormon, vol. 3, 51-52).
“Joseph had both good sense and good legs in fleeing from Potiphar’s wife” (Elder Neal A. Maxwell, “The Stern but Sweet Commandment,” April 1981 general conference).
Links: “Revelation for the Church, Revelation for Our Lives,” President Nelson, April 2018 general conference.
Make time for the Lord – President Nelson
“But in coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost.
My beloved brothers and sisters, I plead with you to increase your spiritual capacity to receive revelation. Let this Easter Sunday be a defining moment in your life. Choose to do the spiritual work required to enjoy the gift of the Holy Ghost and hear the voice of the Spirit more frequently and more clearly” (President Russell M. Nelson, “Revelation for the Church, Revelation for Our Lives,” April 2018 general conference).
“I plead with you today to counter the lure of the world by making time for the Lord in your life—each and every day” (President Russell M. Nelson, “Make Time for the Lord,” October 2021 general conference).
When I went to the doctor for the very first time by myself, when I was an adult, I had to fill out all those forms and I was so overwhelmed when it asked about my family history. You know that question, "Did anyone in your family have the following? Please mark all those that apply: cancer, diabetes, heart disease, scurvy, depression, anxiety?" It lists everything. I don't know. Listen, we don't really ever talk about those things. Is it that way in your family? Is there family stuff you just don't talk about? And can that stuff help you in the end?
Well, today's study of Genesis 37-41, and, I'm just going to go ahead and add in there Genesis 34-36. It's not included in the Come Follow Me lessons, but when we combine all of these chapters together, it contains some family stories that we don't really like to talk about, but boy, there is some stuff we can learn. And for those of you who have young listeners, we need to just let you know that some of the biblical content today is for mature audiences. So you may want to screen it first.
Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus Original brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now if you're new to our study group, we just want to make sure you know how to use this podcast, so follow the link in our description, and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come Follow Me study, just like my Norwegian friend, Karina Westby, Westby? I hope I'm saying that right, Karina. She's listening all the way from Drammen, Norway. Hi, friend.
Now another awesome thing about our study group - and my favorite - is that each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different. And today we've got two oldies but goodies. They're back. Welcome, guys. We have Abe Mills and Tyler Collette.
Abe Mills 1:38
Tyler Collet 1:38
What have you guys been up to?
Abe Mills 1:42
Oh, man. It's been crazy. Just, you know, when you got a bunch of kids, you end up following them around everywhere. My kids are involved in sports. So I follow 'em around everywhere. And I love watching so, we stay busy.
So busy. I mean, you got, you have a son who's a returned missionary and then you have another one going out. He just got his call last night, right?
Abe Mills 2:01
That's right. He got a call to Fiji. I'm like,
Tyler Collet 2:04
Abe Mills 2:06
Wow, it was, it was - nobody - we probably had 80 people at our house and everybody put on the map where they thought he would go and nobody guessed Fiji. Nobody.
If we had done that back in the day, no one would have guessed my sister's mission: Pocatello, Idaho. (laughter)
Abe Mills 2:25
We were prepared for that. We were like, Hey, if you get called to Idaho, you better be jumping up and down, man. Is exciting stuff, so
And Idaho's awesome. Potatoes?
Tyler Collet 2:36
It's not quite as exciting as Fresno, tho.
Wow. Because Fresno, I'll tell you what. That's the Garden of Eden mission. You get so much fresh fruit and vegetables for members. They all own vineyards and farms. I've never eaten better, or I should say better for my body as when I served in Fresno. What about you, Tyler? Any good stuff going on?
Tyler Collet 2:55
No, I just had a daughter get her own apartment this past weekend. Two kids that are prepping for missions in probably the next six months. So that's gonna leave, that's gonna leave my wife and I an empty nest. Well, we will have one - our youngest. But I mean, he's like on the Xbox all day, so we don't really see him. We'll be pretty much empty nesters.
This is just crazy. Who would have guessed out of all of us in the family, you'd be the first to have the least amount of kids home. Jeez.
Tyler Collet 3:24
Abe Mills 3:25
Tyler Collet 3:27
I'll miss 'em, tho. I say I won't, but I will.
Oh, you will, you're a softie that way. Well, if you want to find out more information about my guests and see pictures of them, you can find those in our show notes. So go to LDS living.com/sunday On Monday, and I'm sure they'll have pictures of their kids. So you can see that and read fun stories about them. And I'll even say Abe he has a YouTube channel, so go check it out because it's fun to watch his family grow.
Abe Mills 3:33
Check out the Sunshine Mafia, guys.
So much fun. Okay, can you guys relate to my opener? Do you have family stories nobody talks about?
Tyler Collet 4:00
Well, I know that my family never talks about the scurvy. So
I kind of threw that in for fun. But it feels like they asked everything but scurvy. Jeez!
Abe Mills 4:11
They do, they do.
It's the stuff when you're like on your own for the first time, you don't, I don't know the answers to any of that stuff.
Tyler Collet 4:18
Abe Mills 4:19
Yeah, well, we are going to have so much fun today because there are so many good stories that we just have to know about in order for the overall narrative of the Bible to make sense. And I'm not just talking Old Testament, I'm talking New Testament. There are stories that play into some important, well, A) important genealogy that we're going to learn about when we get to Matthew chapter one. So everyone grab your scriptures, your journals and your marking pencils, and let's do this. Let's dig in.
Okay, so for those of you listening, before we really do get started, I just want you to know that the story we're going to talk about includes some material that is a little bit uncomfortable. And so I recommend for all parents, listen to it before your kids do, just so you can make sure you understand the story and can explain it to them a little bit better.
Okay, you two, you both have children. You have boys and you have girls. So I'm curious to know, is there an expectation that they stick up for each other? Like maybe your sons stick up for your daughters? Is there anything like that in your family?
Abe Mills 5:12
Definitely. You know we, whenever anyone is saying anything about Mariah, or Juliana, all of my sons, they give them, (laughs) they give them all they can handle. So we've had people say things and they'll look at the camera, and I'll say, Better watch out, you know, we're watching you.
Excellent. What about you, Tyler?
Tyler Collet 5:32
My oldest boy, 17, he does a pretty good job. He's a good watchdog, very protective. I mean, he's a year younger than the two 18-year olds. But you know, he's, throughout his time at school and while they were there, he's done everything that he could to make sure that they don't get hurt. So I've appreciated that.
Yeah. And, and while he is younger, he's bigger. So watch out for that kid. Very good.
All right, let's go to Genesis chapter 34 and find out what this chapter has to do with sticking up for your siblings. And I love this story. Because in Genesis chapter 34, verse 1, we are introduced to a young woman by the name of Dinah. Highlight her name. It says she's the daughter of Leah. You guys, this is the only daughter, the only sister that we hear of in the house of Israel. So we have to tell her story. So we have this sister named Dinah. And in verse 2, it tells us a man by the name of Shechem, who is the son of the prince of this land that lives next door to Jacob and his family. In verse 2 it says that this young man defiles Dinah.
Well, word got out to Jacob and the brothers about what had happened. And in the end of verse 5 it says Jacob holds his peace until all of the sons came in so that they could talk about what had happened. Well, as your sons would probably be, the brothers of Dinah were furious. I mean, they're so mad about what happened. In fact, look at verse 7. Scan your eyes through verse 7 really quickly and find the word that describes how they were feeling. They were very what?
Tyler Collet 6:58
Yeah, what does roth mean?
Abe Mills 7:00
Tyler Collet 7:03
Yeah. It's that person angry, right?
You can, you probably can understand this, like, would you be that way for your own sister? Do you guys have sisters?
Abe Mills 7:11
Yes, that would be that. Yes, exactly.
Tyler Collet 7:16
Yeah, I'd be a little bent over that.
Exactly. Okay. So here's what happens. Jacob, he doesn't want them to go to war because he knows if we retaliate, we have to fight these people and we're not a fighting people. But the brothers decide, Oh, no, we're a fighting people. And they take matters into their own hands behind their father's back. And in verse 25, Levi and Simeon kill not just the prince and his son, but the entire city. They kill all the men and then they go in and pillage. They take all the spoils of war and everything. It's crazy.
And then Jacob in verse 30, comes to them. He's like - and so highlight, you can even mark, bracket off 30-31. The wording in that, basically Jacob's saying, What have you done? Now we're a warring people, you should not have retaliated. I would have taken care of this, we would have just taken Dinah and lived in peace. But the brothers are like, Sorry, dad, we defended our sister. And there's a reason why we need to know this story because when we keep going on today, we're going to come back to this story. So that's why we're telling it.
And so go to Genesis chapter 35. Because now God says to Jacob, All right, arise and go up to Beth-el. Like, you got to move your family, you guys need to leave. And so he packs up everybody, and they're going to move, in Genesis chapter 35. As they move and this story is so fast, they then move to Beth-el. Jacob offers a sacrifice - highlight or bracket verses 8-14 in Genesis 35 - and you can just write, "Abrahamic Covenant renewed". In these verses when the Lord renews the Abrahamic Covenant with Jacob and says, All right, Jacob, (and his name is also Israel), so if we read Israel throughout today's reading, just know that's who we're talking about. We're not talking about a country, we're talking about Jacob.
They renew the Abrahamic Covenant right here. And after he gets done renewing the Abrahamic Covenant, his wife, Rachel - remember, we talked about that story: Rachel and Leah married Jacob, and Rachel was more loved, but she couldn't have children, and the only child she has so far as Joseph - she's pregnant again. And in verse 16, it says, "Rachel travailed, and she had hard labor", at the end of verse 16. And then in verse
17 "[And]it came to pass [that was] when she was in hard labor that the midwife said to her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also." And then how sad. Tyler read for us, verse 18.
Tyler Collet 9:24
18 "And it came to pass, as her soul was departing, (for she died) that she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin."
Highlight those two names. This is where we get the last child in Jacob's family, Benjamin, but these words mean something different. Ben-oni, she names him that son, and Ben-oni means 'son of my affliction'. But Jacob didn't want to be reminded of that for the rest of his life that he lost his wife. So he changes the name to Benjamin, which means 'son of my right hand'. So I thought that was pretty interesting. And then Rachel passes away and they bury her. I mean, hardship after hardship, but it's not over. Let's look at verse 22. And then it says,
22 "And it came to pass, when Israel dwelt, [So there it is, Israe,l meaning Jacob dwelt] in that land that Reuben went and lay with Bihah his father's concubine: and Israel heard it."
Like, then Reuben's making poor choices, right? Oh, and then in verse 29, Isaac dies. This is where Isaac passes away. There is just so much sorrow in Jacob's life and in his wife's lives and how hard his family has really struggled. And it kind of made me think of this idea, like, have you ever heard an older person say, Well, I must not be righteous enough. Because if I were I would have been spared from suffering, must have not raised my kids well enough, because if I had they wouldn't have made poor choices. Is that a true statement?
Abe Mills 10:38
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's, it's so hard for me, because you try to think about like, is it, is it the way that you raised your kids? I mean, all kids have to grow up and start making their own decisions. And I've seen kids that look like they were raised well, and make bad decisions. And, and I can't say, you know, I think my parents did a great job of raising me and I've made bad decisions. So, it's interesting to like, kind of take that and dissect it. And I think sometimes it's a case by case thing,
Tyler Collet 11:07
I find a lot of comfort and Joseph Smith's, you know, his ideology of 'teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves'. It doesn't take any pain away when you know or you learn that your kids are doing as, you know, what you taught them to do. That doesn't take the pain away, but it's still, deep down it's comforting to know that a) there's repentance, right? B) You did your best as a parent, and things will get worked out in the end, you know. That kind of gives me some hope, I guess, for you know, mistakes I've made as a kid, or even in my days as an adult and the mistakes my kids will make.
Yeah, absolutely. I like how you both brought up "I made mistakes." And I know both of you. I know your parents. They were great parents, they did a good job. In fact, Tyler read this quote for us by Elder Joseph B Wirthlin because remember, Israel's-Jacob, he's the prophet. And a prophet has kids that make poor choices, boy you bet, and I think this quote is pretty comforting by Elder Wirthlin. Go ahead, Tyler.
Tyler Collet 12:13
"I love the Scriptures because they show examples of great and noble men and women such as Abraham, Sarah, Enoch, Moses, Joseph, Emma, and Brigham. Each of them experienced adversity and sorrow that tried, fortified, and refined their characters."
Maybe at the top of the page of Genesis 35, just write those three words: "tried, fortified, refined", because from here on, every story we share will be an example of this. And I really want us to just let that soak into our own lives about what that looks like for us. So in the next segment, we're going to be introduced to another person whose story is just filled with trials, fortification, and refinement.
Segment 2 12:54
So for segment 2, I asked Abe, who is a former member of Jericho Road, to sing us a little ditty about who we're going to talk about next. So hit it, Abe.
Abe Mills 13:06
"Noble King, there is no doubt what your dreams are all about. All the things you saw in your pajamas was a long-term forecast for your farmers." Right? Did I get that right? We're talking about Joseph.
Yeah! All right!
Abe Mills 13:25
Pharoah's #2, Joseph, Egypt looks to you.
That's so good! That is so good. Okay,
Tyler Collet 13:33
Tammy, I'm just gonna bow out for the rest of the podcast and let Abe sing the rest.
I know, I kinda want to do that. Can you just sing all the songs from that fabulous musical? Oh, my gosh, those of you who heard that you knew what he was singing. "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat". I mean, when I told you guys that this is what we got to study this time, what did you think?
Abe Mills 13:54
Oh, it's exciting. I love I love the story of Joseph and been hearing it since I was a little kid, of course. As little kids, we don't quite understand all the nuances of it. But we, as we grow up we learn it and I, you know, I'll say that I did get a chance to see this show. I've always loved the music in this musical so and, and it teaches, it teaches us basically, it takes the words from the scriptures and these amazing songs, but
It is so awesome. Okay. This is gonna be so much fun. So I asked these guys to just come prepared for a discussion of 37-41. We're going to retell the story and just have a great time. So make sure you have your scriptures because we are going to point out some really important verses that we need to know. So we are skipping Genesis 36, but the only reason why is because Genesis 36 is a huge genealogy. So, it's important, go study, it but we just don't have time to discuss it today.
And now we're going to jump in to Genesis chapter 37. We are going to talk about Jacob and his 12 sons. They are living in the land of Canaan. And now we have in verse 2 - How old is Joseph, you guys? Let's first start out with that. What age are we talking here in verse 2?
Tyler Collet 14:58
17 years old, so get that in your mind that he's a teenager; that's going to help kind of play out with this story. And in verse 2 what is going on? Like what, what did he do that kind of made his brothers not like him?
He pretty much was favored by his father, right?
Um hmm. But look at the end of verse 2; what did he do at the very end of verse 2 that made his brother's not like him?
Tyler Collet 15:17
Oh, he tattled on them.
Yeah, 'snitches get stitches'.
Abe Mills 15:24
The nose, goes.
Tyler Collet 15:25
In this case, for sure.
Right? Like he's a 17-year old snitch, and he's kind of telling on his brothers; he's giving back a report to his dad, like, Hey, you're not going to believe what these older guys are doing. And then like
Tyler Collet 15:37
You know, as a dad I appreciate that.
Tell me why.
Tyler Collet 15:40
Because if, if I'm trusting them with my sheep, you know, I need to make sure that they're attended to, that they're gonna be taken care of. And if they're off lollygagging or doing things that they shouldn't be doing, I need to know that because I need to know if I need to go out there and do, I'm not a farmer, so I'm not even gonna try to guess what farmers do. But if I need to go out there and do A, B, and C for the sheep, when I'm relying on my sons to do it, and they're not doing it, I need to know.
Yeah, that's exactly what's going on.
Abe Mills 16:13
Well, it sounds like, I mean based upon the story that we've already read that these guys kind of, they listened to their dad, but they also kind of felt like, Hey, if there's something that I feel like it should go a certain way, then I'm going to do it my way. So, Joseph was a responsible one, let's put it that way.
Yes. He's so responsible, and so well-liked, but what does he get in verse 3?
Abe Mills 16:34
Oh, he gets, I think, it's a coat.
Now the musical does it beautifully, right? It just fans out this incredible coat with rainbow colors coming down it. Should we just dispel that myth?
Tyler Collet 16:50
it's really not a coat of many colors. And so highlight that in your scriptures. Because in Hebrew, it's actually just a white tunic. This is what many scholars believe: ''That coat of many colors is a symbol of the birthright. And it is believed to actually be the Garment of the Holy Priesthood. And so when Joseph gets this symbol of the birthright, it's because it's being handed down to Joseph. So, no wonder the brothers don't like him. The birthright originally did belong to Reuben because he's the oldest, but he had an illicit affair with Bilhah, his stepmom, one of the handmaids back in Genesis chapter 35. So he totally loses it.
Then Simeon and Levi come along, and they are both disqualified because of the story with Dinah. And so then Judah comes in and Judah's like, Well, I'm 4th in line, so it belongs to me. But nowhere in the Levitical law is it ever written that the fourthborn will ever get the birthright. And so then if you keep going down, then Dan comes in. And Dan goes, Well, technically it should go to me because I was the firstborn of the 1st handmade. So it should be mine. And again, there's no provision in the law to be given to the handmaid's son. And so if you go down the line, it really is supposed to go to the firstborn of the 2nd wife, who is Rachel. And Rachel's son is Joseph. So the birthright goes to him. So knowing that context now, does it help you understand why his brothers don't like him?
Abe Mills 18:04
Yeah, I mean, I can imagine that, you know, when you're a kid, you think Oh, it was just because he gave him a gift and nobody else got one. But when you start looking deeper into it, it shows that, you know, who his mom was, and you know, those guys have been around for a long time before him and been you know, they've been working, right? They're earning their right. And you got this guy that comes in, little 17-year old kid, and just gets it all. It's just not, yeah, that doesn't go over well.
Hey, we see this today in families where you get, you know, the parents may want to give something to somebody and then the, you know, the kids. If you want to see a family fight way til one of the parents die, and then you see, you start seeing kids fight each other. But this is just like, just like that.
Absolutely. Let's read the description that the brothers had for him. Tyler read verse 4 for us.
Tyler Collet 19:03
37:4 "And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him."
Highlight "and could not speak peaceably unto him." This really means that they could not even be friendly towards or have any desire of happiness for him. I like how in Hebrew when it says "peaceably unto him", it means SHALOM, which is your standard greeting for every person when you meet. Shalom, which means 'blessing upon you', 'peace be upon you', they couldn't even say that to their brother, that's how much they hated him. They wished nothing but ill for him; so they hate him so much. And what does he do in verses 7-10? Oh, Joseph. He can't let well enough alone. He has these dreams. Right? And what are his dreams about?
Abe Mills 19:46
Weird bundles of wheat standing up. Yep. And his brothers, all of their bundles of wheat bowed to his bundle of wheat. That's crazy.
Tyler Collet 19:59
Yeah. And and yeah, it's bad. And then he has it about, the other dream about the stars, right? The sun, the moon, and the stars were bowing to him. He's basically rubbing it in.
Tyler Collet 20:14
Now, do you think that he did it on purpose? I don't know. I mean, who would know? But he definitely did it.
Well, I love there's kind of this in his dream in verse 9, not just stars, but 11 stars. He's like, all 11 of you? Yeah. Because there's 12 in total. That's why it's 11. He's like, 11 of you, you're gonna bow to me. And how did his dad react in verse 10? What did Jacob say? Not even say, but
Tyler Collet 20:37
I don't even think he was too impressed. 'Cuz He says, What shall I and thy mother and thy brethern indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee?
Yes, he rebukes them like, they're like, Joseph, settle down. You're 17, okay? Because the overall message is, You're all gonna bow to me. And it comes off as pretty cocky, don't you think, for a 17-year old boy?
Tyler Collet 20:58
Yeah, it makes you wonder where
You both have 17-year old boys.
Abe Mills 21:02
Tyler Collet 21:02
Yeah. I'd be like, what kind of life experience, who are you?
"What kind of life experience?" That's funny.
Tyler Collet 21:11
Abe, what would you do if your 17-year old came up to you and said, Dad, I had a dream last night that you and everybody in the household were kneeling at my feet. And I'm wearing this coat that you don't get to wear? And it's a fine coat. What would you do or say to that?
Abe Mills 21:30
I would say, Was I 95? How old was I when was outrun by the kid.
Had I'd fallen and I couldn't get up.
Tyler Collet 21:37
Exactly. That's why I was, I needed your help to get up.
Abe Mills 21:41
Yeah, I always tell them like, Listen, I'm gonna have to be real old for you guys to get me so, keep dreaming buddy.
Okay, I love this discussion so much. So this is a perfect segue for us to stop right here. And in the next segment, we will find out the result of the envy and hatred that Joseph's brothers had for him.
Segment 3 22:00
This is a fun question. So truth time. I'm curious to know when you guys were little kids, did you ever call your siblings names? Did you ever have a mean nickname or anything like that? Can you share it? Is it appropriate?
Tyler Collet 22:14
I still call my brother mean names.
Tyler Collet 22:17
Beavis. I mean it may not be a mean name, (laughter) but it's. Butthead. You know, I mean. He's still bigger than me so I kind of have to use that term when it's in my advantage but
When you're on the phone in your house and he can't pummel you.
Tyler Collet 22:37
He's a big dude, man. I don't call him a man, but,
Abe Mills 22:41
Yeah, no. I, we definitely did that. And I'm pretty sure that I called my sisters names too, but I don't remember em because I have been forgiven and have left those things behind me.
I mean, come on. Did anyone ever have braces in your family? What did you call the kid with braces?
Abe Mills 22:56
Oh, brace face.
Tyler Collet 22:58
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Tyler Collet 23:01
Glasses, Four eyes?
Abe Mills 23:03
Oh, we called Caralee that.Yeah, because she had the thickest glasses. She was blind as a bat. And she was Four Eyes for sure, growing up. Sorry, Cara. That's Tyler's wife. Oh, boy. Kids are brutal. Right?
Tyler Collet 23:16
We are. We're brutal to each other.
And Tyler, I like that you say you still do it because I do, too. In fact, I was texting my family a couple of days ago. And we all made plans to meet somewhere. And I didn't sign off or anything. And my sister said, I'll answer for Tammy. See you fools later." That is so true. I call them fools all the time. "I'll see you fools later. They know; that's just what I would, and I just didn't have time to say it. So
Okay, this is so much fun. Go into Genesis chapter 37, because guess what? Joseph's brothers had a nickname for him. This is so fun. We are going to go into verse 19. So here we go. Here's the story leading up to this. Jacob sends Joseph to check on his brothers, as we know he's real, real good at that. Right? Go snitch on your brothers. So Joseph goes to find his brothers. And as he's going to find his brothers, he's asking a man like, Have you seen my 11 brothers? And the man says, Yeah, they're over in this field, go find them. And he goes to find them, and in verse 18 it says, When the brothers saw him afar off, before he came near unto them, they conspired against him to slay him. They're like, You know, let's just finally off with this brother. We're done with him. Can you even imagine 11 brothers deciding it's so bad we're gonna kill our brother?
Abe Mills 24:24
That was crazy.
Yeah. And then look at verse 19; Abe, read verse 19 for us.
Abe Mills 24:28
37:19 "And they said one to another, Behold, this dreamer cometh.
Highlight "this dreamer". You guys in Hebrew, this translates to such a better name. Rather than saying, Oh, "this dreamer" nickname, that it actually translates as "master of dreams". Oh, look who's comin', the "master of dreams". I mean, can you hear that in a sarcastic tone?
Mm hmm. Good one.
Oh, so good. Here comes the master dreams. All right. And so then they conspire and they decide they're going to slay him. Now do either one of you remember the story that happens and what Reuben does right here?
Tyler Collet 25:01
Yeah, Reuben basically says, Ahhh, let's not kill him. But let's like throw him in a ditch to where he can't get out.
Abe Mills 25:08
Yeah, let's not kill him kill him. (laughter) I'm sure he said it like that. But you know what the funny thing about this is that his dad sent him to look for them and see what was going on because he was like, I see you got my back. So go ahead and check it out. And I mean, I know his dad felt real bad later because he, like I sent him out there, you know?
Oh my gosh, that's a great perspective. He probably feels so much guilt after what had happened. Oh, that's a great way to think of that Abe. Yeah, you're totally right. Because the brothers don't actually kill him. Reuben talks him out of it, right? Go to verse 23. So instead, they're like, Okay, we're not going to kill him. Here's what we are going to do. So they take what from him in verse 23?
Abe Mills 25:47
Take his coat.
They're like, we're gonna take your coat, we're gonna take the Garment of the Holy Priesthood because it doesn't belong to you. And then they throw them into what?
Tyler Collet 25:56
A big pit
Big old pit and they leave him there. Exactly. And then they come up and they come, they come up with a plan. They decide, okay, well, we're not going to kill them. So instead, finish the story. What do they do?
Tyler Collet 26:07
Yeah, caravan. They have myrrh and all this good stuff, and they're like, Hey, let's sell him to these slaves. Or sell him to be a slave to these people, right?
Tyler Collet 26:17
I think at first they thought they'd just leave him there and just hope that something bad happened.
Yeah. But then they're not that dumb. Because they're like, Ooh, we can make some money off our brother.
Abe Mills 26:29
There you go. They're like, let him go live somewhere else. Be somebody else's servant. Right.
Abe Mills 26:36
They sold him off.
Go to verse 28. Let's mark how much they sold him for. It says there at the end of verse 28: "20 pieces of silver". So this was actually the price of a slave at this time. Interesting side note is that Christ will be purchased for 30 pieces of silver, which was the price of a slave during His day. So there's some really cool parallels between Joseph and the Savior in this story. So, that's a fun fact, there.
Tyler Collet 26:40
Not just being sold for 20 pieces of silver, but also his brothers conspired against him, which I mean, that's a comparison to Nephi, Laman, and Lemuel, right?
Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So they sell off their brother. And then let's look at verse 33. This is an important part of the story that I love this connection to the Book of Mormon. In verse 33, they take the "son's coat", and they decide we're going to rent it into pieces. So circle that; they tore it up into pieces, they dipped it in blood, they took it back to their dad, and they're like, You're not gonna believe what happened. Our brother was killed and a you know, beast ripped him up into pieces. And this is all we have left, is this tattered bit of garment.
Next to those verses, I want us to put Alma chapter 46, verses 23 and 24. If you go to Alma, chapter 46, this is the Title of Liberty; this is Moroni saying to His people: We are going to stand up for our truths and our beliefs. Moroni kind of slides this in and unless you know the story about Joseph and how they rent his clothes, you don't really get it. But now we do. And we go, Oh my gosh. Moroni is brilliant. And again, the Book of Mormon is true. So let's go to Alma chapter 46, verses 23 and 24. Abe, read those for us.
Abe Mills 28:12
Alma 46:23 "Moroni said unto them, Behold, we are a remnant of the seed of Jacob; yea, we are a remnant of the seed of Joseph, whose coat was rent by his brethren into many piece; yea, and now behold, let us remember to keep the commandments of God, or our garments shall be rent by our brethren, and we be cast into prison, or be sold, or be slain.
24 "Yea, let us preserve our liberty as a remnant of Joseph; yea, let us remember the words of Jacob, before his death, for behold, he saw that a part of the remnant of the coat of Joseph was preserved and had not decayed. And he said---Even as this remnant of garment of my son hath been preserved, so shall a remnant of the seed of my son be preserved by the hand of God, and be taken unto himself, while the remainder of the seed of Joseph shall perish, even as the remnant of his garment."
Good stuff, huh?
Abe Mills 29:08
Yeah, that's great.
And he'll see that remnant, in Genesis chapter 44, verse 28, which we will do later. Not today. But anyway, that's the remnant part. So there's that story. And so now we have Joseph, who is now enslaved, and we have Jacob who is so sad, and then the brothers who have this secret, and they're not going to tell anybody about it.
Abe Mills 29:29
Well, so it is interesting, too, because they don't really tell him what happened to him. Jacob kind of comes up with that on his own, which is like, you know, like, he's like, Hey, we have this coat. We don't we don't know if it's his or not. And then he's like, I know it is his coat. A wild beast has slain him and then they're like, Yeah, must have been a wild beast. You know, it's like, they're, you know, it's a, it's almost a perfect the way that it works out for them to keep their secret, anyway.
Whoo. Excellent, Abe. Great insight, is that. Okay. So, we're going to pause in the story right there. And in the next segment, I have to tell you this next story, because we're going to juxtapose it with the story of Joseph. Again, it's a family history story that nobody really likes to talk about, except for us. We're going to tell the story next.
Segment 4 30:13
Okay, let's tell the story of Tamar. It's my namesake. It's where my name comes from, you guys. Tamara, Tamar. Yeah, um hm. That's where it's from,iIt means palm tree. So I never have this cool thing about my name, but it does mean palm tree. So there you go. We stand tall. That's what we do. That's what Tamar did. Okay, great questions. Yes, it is a crazy story, but we need to know the story.
Okay, let's go into Genesis chapter 38. And, boy, if you have a crazy pedigree, this is for you. These are the stories we don't talk about. So Tamar was married to one of Judah's sons, his name was Er. But Er wasn't a great guy, and he ended up dying. So according to the customs at the time, Tamar would marry the next oldest brother. But he wasn't a great guy, either. And he died. So according to this tradition, Tamar would marry the next brother, but he was way too young. And remember, this is at a time when women really, they weren't allowed to take care of themselves. They had zero rights, talk about a marginalized group of people. They couldn't really have great jobs or really any source of income.
So Tamar, she's got to take care of the situation, and she is being left out to dry here. So she talks with Judah about it, and he kind of brushes her off. And here's where it gets weird, but stay with us. This story is so important for us to know, especially for all of us who might be struggling with some parts of our family history. Anyway, Judah's wife dies, and while he's off shearing sheep, Tamar comes into his tent veiled, so he doesn't know who she is, and they have an illicit relationship. Now, mind you, Judah kind of sought her out. He needed some companionship, but he went about it all the wrong way. This is so wrong for us today, and rightfully so.
It's such an uncomfortable story to talk about. But remember, things were different in the Old Testament times. And while this was wrong then, too, we are going to see how it all plays out. So Tamar, knowing that she needed to protect herself, she asks for Judah's bracelets, signet (or ring), and his staff. Because Judah finds out later that it was Tamar, he decides he wants to burn her, in verse 24. But because Tamar has these things from Judah, it shows that he was complicit in their relationship. And in verse 26, Judah says that Tamar had been more righteous than he, because he had left her out to dry, and remember, with no way to provide for herself.
And so Tamar ends up having twins. And here's where this all plays out. If you go to Matthew chapter one, you'll see all of Christ's ancestors. And in verse 3, it says, Judas, (or Judah) begat Phares and Zara of Tamar; and Phares begat Esrom. Highlight Phares in verse 3. Now, this is what's so cool about this story. Because of Phares, because of Tamar's illicit relationship, we get the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christ comes through Phares, and it will come by way of Ruth. When we get to that story, I'll point this out again. So I just think this is amazing. I want us tokind of just sit with this for a minute. Now, could the story have gone differently? Sure. But guess what, it didn't. And that's okay.
Through this genealogical line, you guys, we will be given Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Redeemer of the world. And if that word Redeemer doesn't beautifully sum up everything about the story of Judah and Tamar, then there is no hope for any of us. And that is what I love about this story. I love Tamar. Honestly, I can't wait to meet her, I hope I get to, and I'm gonna hug her. And I want to know everything. Because we only know this side of the story. Again, we've learned throughout all have this Genesis year, that we only have bits and pieces of the story. But when you connect this to Matthew chapter one, I think it is a powerful reminder of what the Redeemer can do for all of us. This story is so incredible.
Abe Mills 33:50
Yeah, it's amazing. And the thing too, that sometimes women who have been in those situations may feel like, you know, they're less than, or you know, not worthy of, or they don't understand the value that God sees in them. But this right here shows you like, no, He sees, He sees the value in you,
Abe. Thank you so much for those beautiful and true words, you are completely right. Tamar's story is a story of hope. That's what I've learned from it. And not just letting God prevail in our lives, but God having the power to prevail over all, over everything. Ah. Abe, thank you. That was so good.
All right. So let's, let's compare it then with the story in Genesis chapter 39. And I'm just going to tell us a couple verses, but I want you guys to tell me the story. Because this is a really important story in Joseph's line. So go to verse 1. We have
39:1 "And Joseph was brought down to Egypt; and Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh, [a] captain of the guard, [and] an Egyptian, brought him of the hands of the Ishmaelites, which had brought him down to thither."
Now there's three things that we know about Potiphar right there. He's an Officer Pharoah; 2) he's a captain of the guard. Highlight that, I thought this was so cool. Because captain of the guard in Hebrew, it actually is believed that he was a slaughterer or a butcher. Some scholars believe that he was the head executioner for Potiphar, if he was the royal bodyguard. That's what that wording means. Isn't that awesome? So Potiphar is pretty important. And then he's an Egyptian. And then highlight "and the Lord was with Joseph". And what did Potiphar make Joseph - what became of Joseph under Potiphar's hand?
Abe Mills 35:31
Oh, man, he was, he was in charge. He was like basically Potiphar's main man. He was in charge of everything. The only person that was had more power in that house was Potiphar.
Right? So much power.
Tyler Collet 35:46
Well, with that power comes great responsibility, right? During his time there, Potiphar's wife catches glimpse of him and says, Hey, who are you? Why don't you come on over? Get to know me a little bit. Then of course, Joseph's like, ummm, that wouldn't go over well; that's not a good idea.
In fact, look at verse 7. Her exact wording to him is what? At the end of verse 7?
Tyler Collet 36:09
Lie with me.
Yeah, she's like, come and lay with me. Let's have this illicit relationship. Right?
Abe Mills 36:15
Yeah. I'm guessing that Joseph was a man, he must have been handsome. He must have been like, well, he was fit. Because I'm thinking like, you know, they took him and then Potiphar the main, like, the main guy that was in charge of all this stuff, took him as a slave, and then made him the main guy. I mean, I'm assuming that he didn't have time to sit down with him and interview him or whatever. He probably just saw the guy was like, Dude, this is the guy. And then for her to come on to him like that. You know, I don't know. Like he must, there must have been something about this guy.
And you know how it is whenever, like, we talked about his brothers being jealous of him? I bet he was probably tall, handsome. You know what I mean? Like, not that little, you know what I mean? So I, I think you see it, and you go, This guy must have just, like, really like, you know, when he walks in the room, people must have just been like, Okay, you know, he can hold his own. But yeah, that's, that was my thought about that whole thing?
Well, Abe, I really like that you said that Potiphar saw something in Joseph because even in verse 3, it says, 'And his master saw that the Lord was with him, and that the Lord made all that he did to prosper in his hand'. Like Potiphar is recognizing Joseph even has the, he's got the golden touch for everything. And for him to recognize that the Lord is with him. There had to have been something physically different or spiritually different the way he looked. What did you guys notice in verse 10? How often did she come to him to seduce him?
Tyler Collet 37:38
Day by day. So this wasn't just a one time, Hey, you look great. You know, this was a, she's, she is a adamant about this happening, right?
Tyler Collet 37:54
I like his response and 9, in verse 9, when he says, "how then, how then can I do this great wickedness and sin against God?
Oh, my gosh. Tell me about that, Tyler.
Tyler Collet 38:05
Well, he just knows right from the get go that it will, hey, you know. I'll back up and read verse 9 all together.
39:9 "There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back anything from me but thee,"
So I would assume that that's Potiphar keeping everything, you know, to, giving everything to Joseph except for his wife, right? Keeping her on that side of the house or whatever. And then he's like, Well, wait a minute, you're his wife, then why would I do that and sin against God and it's a great wickedness? The fact that he knew that it was a wicked act. It speaks volume to him.
Well, what does that, what does that tell us then about Judah? Compare that to Judah then?
He knew he was doing, he knew he was wrong.
Yeah. Tyler, I love that you just said Joseph knew it must have been wrong.
Abe Mills 38:50
He knew it was wrong. And that's one of the reasons why he came back and was trying to, he was trying to shoo it all away. Right.
Right. Exactly right.
Tyler Collet 39:00
It's almost like, Okay, I admit that once he said that, you know, she's more righteous than I. He was just admitting, like, Okay, I, what I did was wrong. I knew that.
Um hm. Excellent. So he does, Tyler. I like how you brought that out. He owns like, this is great wickedness, I would be sinning against God, so I'm not going to do it. And then what, let's read verse 12, because here's Joseph's reaction. Tyler read verse 12.
Tyler Collet 39:25
Well, I'm gonna preface 12 with 11. So I mean, this sounds like it was a setup, right, an intentional. So Joseph went into the house to go conduct his business, and nobody was in there, which I'm sure was not normal, that was out of the norm for that to be there. And then in verse 12,
39:12 "and she caught him by his garment, saying, Lie with me: and he left his garment in her hand, and fled, and got [him] out."
Abe Mills 39:49
Yeah, you know, the thing about it is that, you know, it shows that, because I think about this and you know, what, what can we learn from this? One of the things that we can learn from this is that when you understand the gifts that have been given to you, and we have a responsibility to, to keep ourselves in check if that makes sense. I think in some ways, we talk to our kids about this a lot of times, but it's like, the gratitude that, we did this for you. And so even though we didn't tell you to do these things, we kind of expected that you would, because that would show you our, you know, that will show us your gratitude.
And I feel like Joseph, he had that right down. I mean, I don't know, man, if I was in his situation, some ways you, wouldn't you be hard, would you be hardened by what your brothers did to you and that kind of stuff? But he was just still, like, so had so much faith in God that he just, he just was still understood I'm so grateful that, you know, this could have been even worse, I could have be dead now. Or I could have been working for some other person and not been in charge. So he had all the perspective that we need in our lives about like, you know, this could be much worse. We have all these great things going on. And so, you know, with that gratitude comes, like you said, great responsibility. Yeah, just like the Spider Man of his time.
Tyler Collet 41:09
I appreciate, I appreciate what you're saying Abe. And as you're saying it, it makes me think of what you said earlier, as in, as you approach us in your thought just now, you're thinking with your life experiences, in today's time. I mean, and I'm trying to see him back in his day, as a 17-year old. You know, my 17-year old, I'd like to think that in today's time, just with how he was raised, would he be able to fight that temptation off, compared to way back then, when I'm sure that was, you know, if no one's caught, it's an acceptable practice, right? So I don't know. It just got me thinking, you know, what was going on in Joseph's mindset at that specific time. And in the fact that you said that he had a lot of faith and trust in God. I mean, that's to me, that's evident. Right?
Abe Mills 42:05
Well, and you compared him to Nephi before. It's like one of those things where, was when he said, when he told the dream? Was he being snotty to 'em? Or was he just living that life that was like, he was on a level that was just
Tyler Collet 42:18
Or was he excited and wanted to share that excitement with them, so. This is what the dream was because,
Abe Mills 42:23
You know, Nephi wasn't like that. He was trying to be, he's like, Hey, we should we follow father, because, you know, I went, I prayed about it. I went to the mountain, and I know all this stuff. And so, you know, Joseph, he knows this stuff, because God's given it to him. And so maybe he wasn't being like that guy; he was trying to be, he was trying to help them spiritually, man. You know, but it's kind of hard when you're the guy that's going to get everything and everybody else is looking at you like, really?
Tyler Collet 42:49
Yeah, we'll see.
I love how both of you are thinking about this. I think this is really profound. It's a great way to approach this because so often, we just want to focus on how Joseph kept the law of chastity, which is very important. In fact, I love Elder Maxwell. He says Joseph had both the good sense and good legs in fleeing from Potiphar's wife, right? But I love how you've taken this a step further. And I want to ask you this question because we marked this in verses 2 and 3. But again, in verse 21 and 23, it says it again, that the Lord was with Joseph, in 21 and then again, because the Lord was with him.
You know, he could have been in that pit and it would have been so easy for him to say, Well, God wasn't with me in the pit. Now look where I am, I'm a slave and I don't get to be with my family. And he didn't. And I want to know from both of you. How do we instill in our children so that it can be said of them: The Lord was with...Think of your child or even I want to be able to say at the end of the day, the Lord was with Tammy; the Lord is with Abe; the Lord is with Tyler. What is some practical, every-day advice that you would give to your child or an adult? How do we have the Lord with us? What do you think Joseph did?
Tyler Collet 44:00
I'd like to imagine he prayed a lot. You know, for me, praying, praying is a way for me to 1) stay in touch with Heavenly Father. Right now and but more importantly, for me, it's a way to have the Holy Ghost with me more. I'm not saying I have it with me 24/7, because I don't. But I know that that's a way to enable myself to be worthy to have the spirit with me. And I think part of that, with Joseph anyways, is maybe one reason why he went through a refiner's fire, so to speak, and never really condemned God for it.
Yeah, he was tried and purified and refined through the praying. I like that. Abe,
Abe Mills 44:45
I think prayer has to be it because, you know, you think about scriptures. I mean, I don't think he had those. We have them. And so we is these days, we can be praying and we can we can be in the scriptures and there are so many tools out there now that will allow us to bring God into our lives and our Savior, Jesus Christ into our lives. And even the music, we have music that we can choose that can do that as well. And to think of his example of being able to do that, when he didn't really have, you know, all he had was prayer. We, we can do a better job. And I think that we try to teach our kids to connect with Christ every day.
And I think one of the things, because there's so many different things that can take our attention, and if you can connect with Christ each day, I think you just give yourself a much better chance in this world. Because it is, it's like you said, it's like, at some point, it's not a punishment that you're afraid of. It's more where you want to be, how you want to feel, who you want to serve, those types of things that you have to. And I think it's just repent, I think you it's over and over again, and finding opportunities to sit and chat with them about those things specifically about spirituality, helping them recognize the times when God is telling them something, and when God is blessing them so that they can be be understanding of like, Okay, these are, I actually am being blessed in this situation, because sometimes it is hard.
Great answers: to pray, and to connect with Christ. Wow, I really like that. I think that's exactly what Joseph did. I mean, he could have been so bitter, but he chose to be better. I mean, let's remember: his mother, Rachel passed away, he's enslaved, and I would assume that he is definitely missing his family. But the Lord was with Joseph. Highlight that, we've got to remember that because I think something for me to think about is when life isn't going the way I thought it would and when I want a different story, maybe the story I am in right now is where I belong. And it has been perfectly written by the one who claims the title, The Author and Finisher of our faith, The Author and Finisher of my faith.
And so I just think back to Joseph, he was definitely tried, fortified, and refined. Okay, well, so as a result of him fleeing, then, poor guy, what ends up happening to him? He gets thrown into what?
Tyler Collet 47:00
He's thrown into prison,
Thrown into prison. Isn't that awful? He doesn't even get a pat on the back from Potiphar, because Potiphar's wife twists it in such a way: she's the victim, and now he is bad. And so Potiphar doesn't ask questions, throws him into jail. And so in the next segment, we're going to talk about what happened while he was in prison.
Segment 5 47:17
So Joseph, or as his brother's call him, "the master of dreams", right? He's now in prison. And that nickname, this is definitely a foreshadowing in the story. So kind of pay attention to this because it will play into his favor. While he's in prison: look at Genesis chapter 40, verse 1. There is a butler and a baker who also got thrown into prison. And they're there with Joseph and I just love how in this that the man who's over the prison, the prison of ward, I guess you could call him - warden. He sees Joseph and he just decides to put Joseph in charge. I mean, isn't that so awesome? I think it goes back to what you said Abe like, You're a big strapping young man, let's just have you be in charge. I just love it.
Abe Mills 47:53
Yeah, he's in charge of everything. It's awesome.
It always is. And these two men, the butler and the baker, they dream a dream. And after they get done dreaming this dream, in verse 6 it says they were sad, because they don't really know what this means. And I love how when Joseph says, Why are you so sad this day? And they're like, well, we dream these dreams, and we're not really sure what they mean. And so Joseph says, Well tell me your dreams. Now I have asked Tyler and Abe to be respectively, the butler and the baker. So let's start out with the butler. That's the first dream that we have. Abe, you're the butler. What did he dream?
Abe Mills 48:27
Okay, cool. So I think one thing too, is that I didn't catch this ever before. And just reading it this time, I caught that. These guys were not just a butler and a baker. They were like in charge of all the butlers and the bakers. They were like, the, like they were in charge of all of it. And so I was like, Oh, okay, so these guys are like, they're in charge; they have a lot of responsibilities. So Butler is also a title for cup bearer. And I guess what would happen is these guys would be responsible for drinking whatever it was the king was going to drink before he drank it he had to have somebody else drink it to make sure that they stayed alive. And this is what the butler did. So super important job. I don't know you know, what would have gotten him in the bad graces of the king but he was obviously sweating it pretty hard. And when he had this dream, he just really really really wanted to find out. And apparently in the dream there was a vine and it had three branches. And I guess the branches had buds on them and blossoms that were all over them. And basically the clusters of that brought forth grapes. And so I guess the Pharaoh cup was in his hand so he's gonna do the tasting and when he took the grapes and pressed them in there, he gave the cup to Pharaoh. And that was the dream.
Excellent. Bracket off verses 9-15 and write "Butler's Dream" to the outside. Perfect retelling of that. Okay, so that's the butler's dream. Now Tyler, be the baker. What did the baker dream about? His dream is found in verses 16 through 19 - real short, so bracket 16-19 and write "Baker" to the outside. Tell us his dream.
Tyler Collet 49:50
So the baker - his dream was 3 baskets on the top of his head and the baskets were white. In the very top basket was a bunch of food, right? And then the birds came and ate them. And that was basically his dream. So that's kind of the, I could see how that would be, you wake up from that and say what? That doesn't even make any sense, right?
Abe Mills 50:14
And I'm assuming these guys knew each other. I mean, why
Tyler Collet 50:17
I would think so. I would think that they would be, I mean, again, looking in today's terms, your cook and your butler are working together when they go out and serve the meals. They look what's on the menu for today. Okay, we'll set the table for this or this. So I agree. I think they knew each other.
Yeah. Must have been friends and Abe, tell me, what was the interpretation of the dream? How did Joseph interpret the butler's dream? What did he say about it?
Abe Mills 50:44
So basically, what he said was, the 3 branches are 3 days, and that in 3 days, he would be back doing his job for the Pharaoh again. So I mean, he was like, sweet, you know? I, really? Okay, cool, cool. I mean, like, really? I mean, if you're in prison, and the guy tells you that, there's some hope. Hope, right? You're like,
I'm out of here in 3. And then you feel for the baker, because there's the baker, he's like, Oh, good. Oh, good. I'm next. Interpret mine, Joseph, with all the hope in the world. Right? And Tyler, what was the interpretation for the baker?
Tyler Collet 51:16
Yeah, his didn't end so well.
What did he say?
Tyler Collet 51:20
So we learned that the 3 baskets also represent 3 days, right? And at the end of the third day, rather than going back to his job duties, and back to baking, instead, the pharaoh didn't like him so much. And so he basically is going to hang him from a tree, and the birds will eat his flesh off. You know, I guess you burn the dessert man. You do all burnt cookies.
Don't ruin the bread. I know. Wha wha, poor baker. So sad.
Tyler Collet 51:54
Could you imagine being the baker after hearing the positive interpretation of that dream for the butler and being like, okay, great, you know, and then hearing that? I'd be angry. The natural man in me would be angry. I'd be like, You don't know what you're talking about. What? This is stupid.
Yeah. Redo. I want a new dream. Yeah. Oh, totally.
Abe Mills 52:13
I can't imagine. And then being the butler, he's probably, Man, I'm so sorry, bro. Like, I don't even know what you would say.
You put your hand on his back and just pat it like, Sarah there. I'm sure they had a moment. I love that. Let's go to Genesis chapter 40, verses 21-23. And we're going to finalize and finish the story and we'll each take a turn. Abe, start with you. Will you read verse 21. And then Tyler, verse 22. And I'll read verse 23.
Abe Mills 52:39
40:21 "And he restored the chief butler unto his butlership again; and he gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand:
Tyler Collet 52:45
22 "But he hanged the chief baker: as Joseph had interpreted to them.
23 "Yet did not the chief butler remember Joseph, but forgat him?"
Now tell me about that verse 23, because we didn't talk about it. What did Joseph ask the butler to do?
Tyler Collet 52:59
Please fill in the Pharaoh.
Abe Mills 53:01
Yeah. Tell him. Put in a good word for me, buddy. You know, like, get your you know, tell tell the king good stories about me. You know, that kind of thing?
That's exactly right. It's like, He's like, Don't you forget what I did for you, that I interpreted your dream. And does the butler remember outright as soon as he's free?
Tyler Collet 53:18
No, he didn't.
Abe Mills 53:19
Nope, he didn't. So, we are going to discuss what happens two years later; took him two years to remember his promise. And we'll discuss that in the next segment.
Segment 6 53:27
So I want to know from both of you, what are some significant future events that you think the Lord wants us to prepare for?
Abe Mills 53:36
Well, I'll give the most obvious answer. That's the Second Coming. Yeah, definitely. And you know what? We don't know, there's a lot of them that we don't know. But I mean, it could be any kind of thing, the hard times, we know like right now, in our country, there's a bunch of hard times going on right now: people with inflation and things costing more; some people making less than what they were before or, you know, when you have inflation, then your money doesn't go as far. There's wars and rumors of wars and all kinds of amazing things that could be happening right now. Or it could be happening shortly in the future. We don't know.
Tyler Collet 54:12
I have to go along with what Abe is saying. I mean, obviously, the Second Coming is, that's the primary answer. Right. But I think more so it's all individual-based. Abe's situation may be different than mine. And so he may be preparing for, you know, hard times ahead that involve his kids, or his marriage, or his financial, whatever, as opposed to mine. Mine may be, you know, preparing for earthquake or financial needs or you know, whatever. I think it's, I think it's going to be completely individually-based. You know, yourself, you know what you have, what you don't have, what you need and how to get there usually. So I think it's just very individual. Don't, don't you think?
Oh, absolutely. I think it's a physical preparation. I think it's a spiritual preparation. For some of us it's mental. Absolutely. Like I think, I really appreciate that you both pointed out it's so different for everyone. And at the end of the day, everything we're being asked to do by a prophet and apostle, by our Savior Jesus Christ should be able to help us in all of those arenas, wherever we are in them. But oh, I think that's so great, that it's it's different for everybody. So let's jump into Genesis 41, then, and we're going to learn about how the Lord helps us to prepare for future events. I think this is such a cool story. Now, in the musical "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat", this is probably my favorite part. Isn't this the 'Elvis part'?
Tyler Collet 55:36
Yeah. Perfect. The first time I saw an Elvis came out and sang this dream, I was like, Okay, now that's clever. That's when I truly appreciated the show, right? In my mind I pictured Elvis the whole time I was reading this. So Elvis comes out - or I should say, you know, Pharaoh - he dreams a dream. And he comes out. And he he doesn't understand what any of these dreams mean. They're crazy. One of the things for sure that was the same was the number. What number kept showing up in all of these dreams?
Abe Mills 56:09
Tyler Collet 56:10
Very good. 7, yes. So in our first dream, we have verses 1-4. And he dreams about 7 kine or cows; 7 cows that are healthy and 7 cows that are sick. In verses 5-8 is the second dream. And we have 7 what?
Tyler Collet 56:27
Ears a corn. Good, healthy corn and then 7 ears of unhealthy corn.
Yeah. So here's the Pharoah's like, what in the world is going on? And he mentions that he doesn't know what these dreams mean. And then finally, verse 9, the butler does good on his promise. Abe, go ahead and read verse 9.
Tyler Collet 56:47
All right, he says, 9 "Then spake the chief butler unto Pharaoh, saying, I do remember my faults this day:"
Mm hmm. And so what does he do?
Tyler Collet 56:56
He was supposed to say, I know a guy. But instead of saying that he's like, I'm gonna tell you the story what happened. Because remember, you don't want to turn me in the prison. So he says, Pharaoh was wrought with servants and put me in ward in the captain of the guard's house, both me and the chief baker. Like, let's just bring up all the bad stuff. And then he says,
11 "And we dreamed a dream in one night, I and he; we dreamed each man according to his interpretation of his dream.
12 "And there was there with us, a young man, an Hebrew, servant to the captain of the guard; and we told him, and he interpreted to us our dreams; to each man according to his dream, he did interpret.
13 "And it came to pass, as he interpreted to us, so it was; me he restored unto mine office, and him he hanged."
And so he told him, he's like, this is what happened. You told, you know, all this stuff. You threw us in there. We had these dreams. And this guy told us what it meant. And it actually happened.
Yeah, absolutely. So pharaoh's, like, Let's do this. Bring me this young man. And so they go to get him. Don't you love what he does in verse 14? What does Joseph do before he meets with Pharaoh?
Tyler Collet 58:00
Cleans himself up. I think he had
Abe Mills 58:02
I think he had to shave. He's like,
Yeah, yeah, probably had some hair growth, because it's been 2 years. So he shaved, he put on some nice new clothes. He goes into Pharaoh. And then Pharaoh says in verse 15, I have dreamed a dream. And so Joseph goes into Pharaoh. And I think it's interesting because Joseph will say to him in verse 16, it's not in me, God shall give Pharaoh an answer of peace. So he's like, Listen, I'm not the one who interprets it. It's God that gives me the gift and the ability to do it. So then he says to Pharaoh, go and tell me your dreams. So Pharaoh reiterates everything that he dreamt, and then Joseph is going to then tell him, Okay, here's what it means. Define for me, both of you. What was the interpretation of Joseph's stream?
Tyler Collet 58:40
Well, the 7 healthy cows equate to 7 years of feast, right? The 7 unhealthy cows equate to 7 years of famine, more or less. And it's the same with the corn too, which I thought was strange; you would think that the cows and the corn would be a little bit different. But
Yeah, same interpretation.
Abe Mills 59:01
Pretty much. I mean, it's,
Tyler Collet 59:03
it's interesting. Sorry, Abe. It's interesting to have both of those different dreams, but they're the same thing. So I mean, that tells me that this is important, you know. It's an emphasis to me, that, you know, pay attention. Seven years, you're going to be good, but in the next 7 years, life is going to be rough if we don't prepare for it, right?
Tyler, I liked that you just pointed that out. In fact, look at verse 32. You said what Joseph said. In verse 32, it says,
41:32 "And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass."
Like you drempt it twice, so it's pretty important. I'm so grateful you pointed that out, Tyler. Excellent work. And then I really like how in verse 33, Joseph sneaks this in because he gets done interpreting and he says,
33 "Now therefore, let Pharaoh look out a man discreet and wise and set him over the land of Egypt."
So he says, You might want to find that someone that's good, that's discreet, that's wise. I mean, I don't know if he knows what he's, I think he does. But it's kind of subliminal, like he puts in those words 'discreet and wise'. And then after Pharaoh talks to his men, true enough, Pharaoh is gonna say those exact words in verse 39.
39 "And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, Forasmuch as God hath shewed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art."
And so as a result, what does Pharaoh do to Joseph now? Abe, this is your man.
Abe Mills 1:00:27
So listen, in the musical he says, (sings) "Who this man may be? I just don't know." Like, you need somebody that looks handsome and just shaved, and is wearing a nice clothing, but I'm not sure who it might be. So
It's so subtle and awesome, isn't it?
Abe Mills 1:00:44
It is. And so the Pharaoh, so the Pharaoh says, Hey, you're, you're the guy. You are the man. You are my #2. Like right now go and make sure that all of this stuff that we're, that we're taking care of it, do what you feel like needs to be done. You have my, like he basically give him his blessing. You have my blessing. Go and take care of this, handle it all. Pretty amazing. And then gave him a wife.
Yeah, let's mark those verses, verse 43. Go there and highlight "and made him ruler over all the land of Egypt." Totally a ruler. I highlighted that and wrote 'Wow', to the outside.
Abe Mills 1:01:18
Oh, this part I really liked though. It says that he has to say "bow the knee". Like everybody had to say "bow the knee" when he walked past. It's like,
What verse is that? Tell us the verse.
Abe Mills 1:01:30
43 "And he made him to ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried before him, Bow the knee:"
There's a little fulfillment of his dream, huh?
Abe Mills 1:01:40
Yeah. Bow the knee, bro.
Say that to your kids this week. Bow the knee, bro. I love that, bow the knee, and he becomes ruler over all of Egypt. So good Abe, I like that. Verse 45: this is a fun interpretation. "And Pharaoh called Joseph's name", isn't this great? Pharaoh's like, And I'm going to change your name, by the way, and we're going to call you Zaphnath-paaneah. That name that Pharaoh gives to Joseph, he has a new name; I really, really like the interpretation of this name. It means in Egyptian, 'the god speaks and he lives'.
Isn't that great? Pharaoh's like, I'm going to change your name and it's going to mean 'the God speaks and he lives'. An Egyptian acknowledging Joseph's God. Huge, huge because of Joseph's influence.
Tyler Collet 1:02:30
So let me ask you this, Tammy. Going back to chapter 37, in verse 9. Joseph had his own dream. And I think Abe just touched upon it, where in that dream, Joseph said 'the sun, the moon, and the stars all bowed to me.' Is that is that what this is referring to then?
I like that. It is. And it is also directly referring to NEXT week's lesson, when we get there, because, in fact, let's just do a cross reference really quick. So you can put it there, but then we'll talk about it next week. And the cross reference is Genesis chapter 42. And when we get there next week in Genesis 42 is when the brothers will literally physically bow before Joseph. Because there will be in fact, 7 years of plenty. And then there'll be 7 years of famine. And Jacob, or Israel, will send his sons into Egypt, because they heard: Oh, someone's been collecting corn all this time. And we need corn or we're going to die. So he sends the brothers in to get it. And they have to 'bow the knee', just like you said, in order to get that corn; and the brothers will bow.
Abe Mills 1:03:37
Well, so it's interesting, too, what Tyler said, because it says the sun, the moon, and the 11 stars, which the 11 stars will be the brothers. So who's the sun and the moon, right? So we're talking about Pharoah?
Abe Mills 1:03:48
Or not Pharaoh necessarily, but maybe the sun - Egypt, Egypt as a whole? So I don't know.
I just got chills.
Tyler Collet 1:03:56
Because isn't the Egyptian god Ra?
So good, you guys.
Abe Mills 1:04:01
Yeah. That's some amazing stuff right there. Yeah, I like that. That's awesome.
Very cool. Oh, my gosh, that's so good. Okay, so then he says in verse 46, and Joseph was 30 years old. So, just as, so we have a timeframe here, he's been gone for 13 years. He hasn't seen his brothers. There's a lot of change that happens at age 17 and 13 years. And so that, have that in your brain for when we come back next week to talk. He then marries a Asenath, who is Pharaoh's daughter, and he was 30 years old when this happened. So he's been gone for 13 years, so kind of tucked that in the back of your head. That's why he'll look different when his brothers see him. And then he'll have two children - verse 51: Manasseh and Ephraim.
Super important when you consider the house of Israel. And how many of us come from this? What tribe are you guys from? Tyler, where are you from?
From the tribe of Ephraim.
Oh, cool. Abe, what tribe are you from?
Abe Mills 1:04:53
I'm from the tribe of Manasseh.
So cool. And you come from the direct line of Joseph then. So when you guys, when people get their Patriarchal Blessing, super important to find out what tribe you're from. And we've talked about this before, but again, I'm on fire about it. Because all of the 12 tribes have a certain responsibility and duty in building up God's kingdom. Manasseh and Ephraim are the only two tribes to get to prepare for the second coming of Jesus Christ. And so here we are. That's why so many people today are having those tribes, Manasseh and Ephraim, and it goes back to that question I asked at the beginning: What are we being prepared for?
And so now I'm thinking about this story. And I'm looking at this, and I think, oh, my gosh. When you consider how we are being prepared, I always wonder, like, what have prophet's done today to prepare us for spiritual or temporal challenges? Because Joseph is going to gather corn, and he's going to set the Egyptians up beautifully. He's going to be completely in charge. But if we apply this to us today, that we have a prophet, who's also trying to set us up, who's also trying to get us prepared. What is our Prophet asking us today to do? Are there some things that stand out to you or that your family, that you're doing as a family to prepare?
Tyler Collet 1:06:02
You know, I, in preparing for this lesson, Tammy, I found a talk given by President Nelson; it was in the April 2018 conference. It's titled "Revelation For the Church, Revelation For Our Lives". And in there, I think he puts it so simple. And I think it answers the question that you're asking, that he says in his talk. He says, "but in the coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost. My beloved brothers and sisters, I plead with you to increase your spiritual capacity to receive revelation. Choose to do the spiritual work required to enjoy the gift of the Holy Ghost, and hear the voice of the Spirit more frequently and more clearly."
Anytime a prophet uses the word 'plead', I think that's pretty important. Increase your spiritual capacity to receive revelation. We're all entitled to receive our own personal revelation. You've taught that before on your podcast, and we know this. How important is it now that our Prophet today is pleading with us to increase our spiritual capacity to receive that revelation? Because he says, plain as day, "in coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the influence of the Holy Ghost". Plain and simple.
Abe Mills 1:07:27
So yeah, to add to that, Tyler, you know, you just said 'plead', right? So the article that I saw was the last talk that he gave at General Conference, which is called "Make Time For the Lord. And the quote that they have at the beginning of the article says, "I plead with you today, to counter the lure of the world, by making time for the Lord in your life each and every day." It sounds like doing that would result in basically what you're just saying, which is receiving personal revelation. And, you know, he's been trying to prepare us just by some of the changes that he's made, and some of the clarifications that I think he's made.
You know, a lot of people said that the "home-centered, church-supported", a lot of people see that as a new thing. It's not a new thing. He's just clarifying some things that we get, that we've been getting wrong for a long time. But he preparing us by putting that at the forefront of our thoughts and helping us to make that the way that we practice the gospel. And so, again, thereby making us connect with Christ on a daily basis in some way with our families, personally. And I think that that's one thing that the prophet has done. The what we're doing Sunday on Monday podcast is all about Come Follow Me and the Come Follow Me program - it's helping everybody be focused on what we should be focused on.
So taking everything that we studied today, I want to follow up and finish with how we started. And my question is, going back to this, tried fortified, and refined, think back in your life - or maybe even right now - have you felt tried, and then fortified and refined by doing what we've been asked to do by past prophets and apostles and current prophet? Is there some, is there a story you have where you really felt like, Wow, I didn't know why we were doing that, but we were prepared, and this turned out?
Abe Mills 1:09:14
Yeah, our son came home about five months early from his mission with a medical problem. And so we've, it's been a challenge to deal with that and understand what it is. I know for him, it's been hard to understand why, why would this happen to me? But we've had this this chance now to understand that we need to see some very specific experts that can help him with this very specific problem. And there's, there's money that needs to be paid and faith that needs to be had. So we're, we've been prepared on all sides with it.
Great story a thank you so much for sharing that. I think there are many of us listening who feel like, Yeah, Tried, fortified and refined. You could put that on my headstone when I die. We get it and it's not the end. And that's what's so unique about this is that right now we are being prepared by a living prophet for future events. When we're going through those trials, that fortification, that refinement, it will end up beautifull, because the Lord was with us.
And I think that's also the message about Joseph, is that the Lord was with him. Nothing turned out perfect for him. He, you know, his mom passes away, his brothers put him in a pit, he becomes a slave, he ends up in prison. I mean, just all these horrible stories, and yet he still gives credit to God. And I think what you both shared is a perfect example of why he did because he had the spirit with him; he prayed, he connected with Christ each day. And I think that that for me, that was my lesson.
So, awesome job, you guys. Great job. So okay, take a minute and think of your takeaway. What's something you learned today?
Tyler Collet 1:10:42
For me, it's probably always that, you know, I can receive personal revelations; I can decipher my daily needs, wants, and prepare for the future, whatever that may be.
Abe Mills 1:11:01
Yeah, my take away is, it's really about just making sure that I take the time, not only for myself with God, and with my Savior Jesus Christ, but also to make sure that I'm making that a part of what we do as a family. And I feel like that, that constant, I mean, I think about it, you know, how many times that I have to be taught certain things when I was growing up. Because I, I have to remind myself, because sometimes when you tell your kid something 10, 20, 30 times and they still don't get it, you're like, uhhh.
But then you start thinking about, Okay, well, what has God been telling me 30, 50,100,000 times and I'm still working on it? So I think it's the repetitiveness of making sure that we take that time each day to connect with Christ and to take time for the Lord. And all of that will lead us to the place that we should be. And sometimes we don't know what that is, but we know where we want to be. And sometimes it won't necessarily look like what we thought it would look like when we get there, but if we do connect, then we'll be where we should be.
Absolutely. Amen to what both of you said. Yeah, our discussion on that, about praying and connecting with Christ really resonated with me. And so that's my takeaway: to pray. And prayer is one of the ways you can connect with Christ every day. And I wrote that in big letters: CONNECT WITH CHRIST. I like that. I love the idea of trying to find one way to connect with Christ each day. And it's so different for everybody. It could be prayer, reading your scriptures, following a prompting, whatever it is, everyone's capable of connecting with Christ. So, great challenge. I love that. So thank you. Thanks, guys.
Abe Mills 1:12:36
Thank you. That was awesome. It was fun.
Tyler Collet 1:12:37
All right. Well, we cannot wait to hear what your big takeaway is from this episode. So many good stories and such a great story to talk about. If you haven't already joined our discussion group on Facebook or Instagram, go do it. Because it's so much fun to ask questions throughout the week or answer people's questions. And then at the end of every week, on a Saturday, we post a call for your big takeaway. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson. And let us know what you've learned. Share what you're learning, share what your takeaways are. And I love reading what everybody learns. So it's so much fun.
You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on LDS living.com/sunday On Monday, and it's not a bad idea to go there, anyway. That's where we have the links to all the references that we used, and some that we didn't, as well as a transcript of this entire discussion, and gluons which are so fun - things that we think you'll find important that you'll want to put in your scriptures.
The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus Original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our incredible, so much fun study your participants were Abe Mills and Tyler Collet. And you can find more information about these friends at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Katie Lambert and me. It is mixed by Mix at Six Studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week.
And please, please remember whatever phase you're in - tried, fortified, or refined - you really are God's favorite.
Abe, can you leave us with one more song?
Abe Mills 1:14:04
(laughs) )One more song. Let's see, what's the, what's the - (sings) "Close every door to me. Keep those I love from me. Close all the windows and shut all those doors." Something like that.
You could sing anything.
Tyler Collet 1:14:22
You words aren't coming to you? It's, it's your voice. It's how smooth it is. You can really bring the spirit in, you really can. I love it. I could listen to you sing all day.