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13: Jesus Christ Will Gather His People (Doctrine and Covenants 29)

Sun Mar 21 17:08:33 EDT 2021
Episode 13

Have you ever heard this quote from Doctrine and Covenants 19:22, “For they cannot bear meat now, but milk they must receive”? It’s essentially comparing the teachings of Jesus Christ to food and how, just like a newborn baby, we need to master the basics (milk) before we can move onto the “meat” of the gospel. And this week’s lesson is all about the meat. So grab your scriptures, tuck in your napkins, and let’s dig into Doctrine and Covenants 29.

Find full episodes of the Sunday on Monday study group here. Start your free trial of Deseret Bookshelf PLUS+ here.

Segment 1:

Title for Section 29: Future Events; Spiritual Creation, the Fall

Milk/Meat Scriptures:

“I have fed you with milk, and not with meat” (1 Corinthians 3:2).

“For they cannot bear meat now, but milk they must receive” (Doctrine and Covenants 19:22).

Quote: "Ask the Lord to teach you how to open the heavens to bless your life and the lives of those you love and serve" (President Russell M. Nelson, "Hear Him," April 2020 general conference).

Background for Section 29:

"While the Prophet and his wife were living at Father Whitmer's farm in Fayette, sometime during September 1830, Joseph received another revelation from the Lord—Doctrine and Covenants 29. This was after receiving Doctrine and Covenants 28, but before the conference began on 26 September. The Prophet gave very little information about the historical setting of section 29, noting only that this revelation was given in September, in Fayette, and in the presence of six elders. Elder Joseph Fielding Smith dates the revelation to shortly before the conference on 26 September. Further, the Far West Record lists the elders who attended the conference, and there were only six besides the Prophet himself. Most likely these are the same six elders who were with Joseph when the revelation was given: Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, John Whitmer, Peter Whitmer, Samuel H. Smith, and Thomas B. Marsh" (Stephen E. Robinson, H. Dean Garrett, A Commentary on the Doctrine and Covenants, Vol. 1, "Doctrine and Covenants 29," Deseret Book).

Verses 1–8: Doctrine of Gathering

President Nelson's footnote in his October 2020 general conference talk "Let God Prevail"

Quote: "I have spoken of Israel in at least 378 of the more than 800 messages I have delivered during my 36 years as an Apostle."

Listen to the voice of Jesus Christ, your Redeemer, the Great aI Am, whose arm of bmercy hath catoned for your sins;

Who will agather his people even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, even as many as will hearken to my voice and bhumble themselves before me, and call upon me in mighty prayer (Doctrine and Covenants 29:1–2).

What does God call those He gathers?

And ye are called to bring to pass the agathering of mine belect; for mine elect chear my voice and dharden not their ehearts; (Doctrine and Covenants 29:7).

Elect: Any group of people who have been specifically chosen for their particular qualities.

Qualities of the Elect:

They hearken, are humble, call upon God, hear His voice, and harden not their hearts.

Where will the the elect be gathered?

Wherefore the decree hath gone forth from the Father that they shall be agathered in unto one place upon the face of this land, to bprepare their hearts and be prepared in all things against the day when ctribulation and desolation are sent forth upon the wicked (Doctrine and Covenants 29:8).

Quote: “The gathering place for Peruvians is in the stakes of Zion in Peru, or in the places which soon will become stakes. The gathering place for Chileans is in Chile; for Bolivians it is in Bolivia; for Koreans it is in Korea; and so it goes through all the length and breadth of the earth. Scattered Israel in every nation is called to gather to the fold of Christ, to the stakes of Zion, as such are established in their nations” (Bruce R. McConkie, “Come: Let Israel Build Zion,” Ensign, May 1977, 118)

How can we gather:

Lift up your hearts and be aglad, for I am in your bmidst, and am your cadvocate with the Father; and it is his good will to give you the dkingdom (Doctrine and Covenants 29:5).

Midst: In the middle of

32 Verily, verily, I say unto you, as I said unto my disciples, where two or three are gathered together in my name, as atouching bone thing, behold, there will I be in the cmidst of them—even so am I in the dmidst of you (Doctrine and Covenants 6:32).

Segment 2:

Verses 9–11: Second Coming in the Millennium

For the hour is nigh and the aday soon at hand when the earth is ripe; and all the bproud and they that do wickedly shall be as cstubble; and I will dburn them up, saith the Lord of Hosts, that wickedness shall not be upon the earth; (Doctrine and Covenants 29:9).

Who are the wicked?

44 And they that believe not unto eternal adamnation; for they cannot be redeemed from their spiritual bfall, because they repent not;

45 For they love darkness rather than light, and their adeeds are evil, and they receive their bwages of cwhom they list to obey (Doctrine and Covenants 29:44–45).

27 And the arighteous shall be gathered on my bright hand unto eternal life; and the wicked on my left hand will I be ashamed to own before the Father; (Doctrine and Covenants 29:27).

  • Greek: Left hand = sinister

11 For I will reveal amyself from heaven with power and great glory, with all the bhosts thereof, and cdwell in drighteousness with men on earth a ethousand years, and the wicked shall not stand (Doctrine and Covenants 29:11).

Verses 12–13: The 12 Will Judge Israel

Judge: Discern

Cross References for the 12 Judges:

Matthew 19:28; 1 Nephi 12:9; Mormon 3:18

13 For a atrump shall sound both long and loud, even as upon Mount Sinai, and all the bearth shall quake, and they shall ccome forth—yea, even the ddead which died in me, to receive a ecrown of righteousness, and to be clothed upon, feven as I am, to be with me, that we may be one (Doctrine and Covenants 29:13).

  • Cross reference: Exodus 19:16–20
  • Dead who died in me = those who died after Jesus Christ was resurrected
  • Crown = Divinity, Israel, Triumph Over Opponents, Exaltation


Ancient Greece: Olive crowns for winners of the Olympics

Ancient Rome: Laurel crowns for victories in battle

Christ: Crown of thorns as mockery of His divinity

Modern Day: Crowns for royalty

Segment 3:

Verse 14–21: Signs of the Second Coming

17 And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take avengeance upon the bwicked, for they will not repent; for the ccup of mine dindignation is full; for behold, my eblood shall not fcleanse them if they hear me not (Doctrine and Covenants 29:17).

Indignation: Anger about a situation you think is wrong or unfair

16 And there shall be a great ahailstorm sent forth to destroy the bcrops of the earth (Doctrine and Covenants 29:16).

18 Wherefore, I the Lord God will send forth aflies upon the face of the earth, which shall take hold of the inhabitants thereof, and shall eat their flesh, and shall cause maggots to come in upon them;

19 And their tongues shall be stayed that they shall not autter against me; and their flesh shall fall from off their bones, and their eyes from their sockets;

20 And it shall come to pass that the abeasts of the forest and the fowls of the air shall devour them up (Doctrine and Covenants 29:18–20).

  • Too weak to fight off beasts

Will the saints be affected by these signs as well?

Quote: “[I] explained concerning the coming of the Son of Man … it is a false idea that the Saints will escape all the judgments, whilst the wicked suffer; for all flesh is subject to suffer, and ‘the righteous shall hardly escape’ [see D&C 63:34]; still many of the Saints will escape, for the just shall live by faith [see Habakkuk 2:4]; yet many of the righteous shall fall a prey to disease, to pestilence, etc., by reason of the weakness of the flesh, and yet be saved in the Kingdom of God” (Joseph Smith, Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, “Chapter 21: The Second Coming and the Millennium,” [2007], 253).

13 For a atrump shall sound both long and loud, even as upon Mount Sinai, and all the bearth shall quake, and they shall ccome forth—yea, even the ddead which died in me, to receive a ecrown of righteousness, and to be clothed upon, feven as I am, to be with me, that we may be one (Doctrine and Covenants 29:13).

The Abominable Church:

21 And the great and aabominable church, which is the bwhore of all the earth, shall be cast down by cdevouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely dmust, as I live, for eabominations shall not reign (Doctrine and Covenants 29:21).

Whore: A person considered as having compromised principles for personal gain.

Abomination: The word is also used to denote any heathen or immoral practice (Deut. 18:9, 12; 20:18) (see Bible Dictionary).

Quote: ". . . the term great and abominable church means an immense assembly or association of people bound together by their loyalty to that which God hates" (Stephen E. Robinson, "Warring against the Saints of God," January 1988 Ensign).

The Church of the Devil: "Every evil and worldly organization on earth that perverts the pure and perfect gospel and fights against the Lamb of God" (Guide to the Scriptures, "Devil," ).

Segment 4:

Verses 22-29: Events after the Millennium, General Resurrection

Order of the Resurrection: Doctrine and Covenants 88:97–102

1. First Trump (Morning): Those who will receive celestial glory.

2. Second Trump (Afternoon): Those who will receive terrestrial glory.

3. Third Trump: Those who will receive telestial glory.

4. Fourth Trump: Those who will be cast into outer darkness.

How long will the Millennium last?

11 For I will reveal amyself from heaven with power and great glory, with all the bhosts thereof, and cdwell in drighteousness with men on earth a ethousand years, and the wicked shall not stand (Doctrine and Covenants 29:11).

How will the Millennium end?

22 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you that when the athousand years are ended, and men again begin to deny their God, then will I spare the earth but for a blittle season; (Doctrine and Covenants 29:22).

What will the Millennium be like?

28 And in that day aSatan shall not have power to tempt any man.

29 And there shall be no asorrow because there is no death.

30 In that day an ainfant shall not die until he is old; and his life shall be as the age of a tree; (Doctrine and Covenants 101:28–30).

  • Age of a tree = 100 years old (see Church History and Modern Revelation, 2 vols. [1953], 1:461).

31 And when he dies he shall not sleep, that is to say in the earth, but shall be achanged in the twinkling of an eye, and shall be bcaught up, and his rest shall be glorious (Doctrine and Covenants 101:31).

Quote: "Because of the destruction of the wicked at the Savior’s Second Coming, only righteous people will live on the earth at the beginning of the Millennium. They will be those who have lived virtuous and honest lives. These people will inherit either the terrestrial or celestial kingdom (Gospel Principles, "Chapter 45: The Millennium,"

23 And the aend shall come, and the heaven and the earth shall be consumed and bpass away, and there shall be a new heaven and a cnew earth.

24 For all aold things shall bpass away, and all things shall become new, even the heaven and the earth, and all the fulness thereof, both men and cbeasts, the fowls of the air, and the fishes of the sea; (Doctrine and Covenants 29:23–24).

  • The earth will become new.

26 But, behold, verily I say unto you, before the earth shall pass away, aMichael, mine archangel, shall sound his btrump, and then shall all the dead cawake, for their graves shall be opened, and they shall dcome forth—yea, even all (Doctrine and Covenants 29:26).

  • Michael = Adam
  • Greek: Archangel = First angel, ruling angel, presiding angel

Quote: "A new heaven and a new earth are promised by the Lord and recorded by the sacred writers. Or, in other words, the planetary systems are to be changed, purified, refined, exalted and glorified, in the similitude of the resurrection, by which means all physical evil or imperfection will be done away" (Parley P. Pratt, Key to Science of Theology, 60).

Segment 5:

Verses 30–35: Important Truths Regrading the Creation

How does God see us?

31 For by the power of my Spirit acreated I them; yea, all things both bspiritual and temporal—

32 aFirst bspiritual, secondly temporal, which is the beginning of my work; and again, first temporal, and secondly spiritual, which is the last of my work (Doctrine and Covenants 29:31–32).

How does the Lord view commandments?

34 Wherefore, verily I say unto you that all things unto me are spiritual, and not at any time have I given unto you a alaw which was btemporal; neither any man, nor the children of men; neither Adam, your father, whom I created.

35 Behold, I gave unto him that he should be an aagent unto himself; and I gave unto him commandment, but no temporal commandment gave I unto him, for my bcommandments are cspiritual; they are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual (Doctrine and Covenants 29:31–32).

Segment 6:

Verses 36–45: The Fall

36 And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the adevil—for, behold, the bdevil was before Adam, for he crebelled against me, saying, Give me thine dhonor, which is my epower; and also a fthird part of the ghosts of heaven turned he away from me because of their hagency;

  • Greek: Devil = One who separates or divides
  • Agency is not free

37 And they were thrust down, and thus came the adevil and his bangels;

38 And, behold, there is a place aprepared for them from the beginning, which place is bhell.

39 And it must needs be that the adevil should btempt the children of men, or they could not be cagents unto themselves; for if they never should have dbitter they could not know the sweet—(Doctrine and Covenants 29:36–39).

42 But, behold, I say unto you that I, the Lord God, gave unto Adam and unto his seed, that they should not adie as to the temporal death, until I, the Lord God, should send forth bangels to declare unto them crepentance and dredemption, through faith on the name of mine eOnly Begotten Son .

43 And thus did I, the Lord God, appoint unto man the days of his aprobation—that by his bnatural death he might be craised in dimmortality unto eternal life, even as many as would believe; (Doctrine and Covenants 29:42–43).

Probation: A process or period in which a person's fitness as for work or membership in a social group is tested.

Verses 46–50: Innocence of Little Children

46 But behold, I say unto you, that little achildren are bredeemed from the foundation of the world through mine Only Begotten;

47 Wherefore, they cannot asin, for power is not given unto Satan to btempt little children, until they cbegin to become daccountable before me; (Doctrine and Covenants 29:46–47).

Hebrew: Israel = Let God prevail (President Russell M. Nelson "Let God Prevail," October 2020 general conference)

Quote: "Thus the very name of Israel refers to a person who is willing to let God prevail in his or her life. That concept stirs my soul! The word willing is crucial to this interpretation of Israel. We all have our agency. We can choose to be of Israel, or not. We can choose to let God prevail in our lives, or not. We can choose to let God be the most powerful influence in our lives, or not" (President Russell M. Nelson "Let God Prevail," October 2020 general conference).

Tammy 0:00

I hope you're hungry. Because you know that milk-meat metaphor in scripture? "I have fed you with milk and not with meat" or it also says "For they cannot bear meat now, but milk they must receive." It compares the teachings of the gospel of Jesus Christ to milk or meat. It's kind of like feeding a newborn. Like you would never start with steak. Well, okay, unless you're a Hall because we love the meats. No, no, no, you begin with milk because that's the easiest to digest. And then the older you get, the more advanced your food becomes, until finally, you can chew on meat. Well, today's discussion of Doctrine and Covenants, Section 29 is all meat, like the finest Porterhouse steak or a nice filet mignon. Maybe a ribeye, if that's your kind of meat. Oh, or what about this? A tomahawk steak! Now that's some serious meat. So grab a knife, a fork, and tuck your napkin into your collar. And welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group. It's a Desert Bookshop PLUS+ Original brought to you by LDS Living where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. If you're new to our study group, we want to make sure that you know how to use this podcast so please follow the link in our description. And that's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study. Just like my friend Linda Pead Russell does, who, by the way, is in the trenches teaching high school, so shout out to my friend Linda. Now another really cool thing. My favorite thing about the podcast is that each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always going to be a little bit different. And today I'm so excited to announce we have Kristin Candlind Simmons and Jill Candlind. Hi, ladies!

Kristin 1:30


Jill 1:31


Tammy 1:32

Okay, this is fun. So last year, maybe some of you remembered, I told a story about Kristin. She's my former mission companion and roommate and we backpacked through Europe together. But Kristin taught me to speak Spanish. And I love Kristin so much. Tell the story about how you made the connection, Jill, with Kristin and me and everything. This is fun.

Jill 1:52

Yeah, every time I was listening to your podcast, I'd recognize your voice. And I was like, "I know that girl. I know that girl." And then when you had the podcast story where you talked about your mission companion, and you said, "Kristin," I'm like, "Oh, I knew I knew her!" And I met you in Wendy Candlind's kitchen. On your Instagram you said, "What's the takeaway for this week?" And I said, "My takeaway is that you should have Kristin on the podcast." And Kristin did not think it was funny when I sent that to her.

Tammy 2:18

I believe it.

Jill 2:19

She's like, "I'm gonna throw you under the bus and take you down." And she did. So here we are.

Tammy 2:25

And you guys are sisters-in-law, right? You married Kristin's brother, Hyrum, who I adore. Love Hyrum.

Jill 2:30

Everybody loves Hiram.

Tammy 2:32

And then that's how we know each other. Because I did, I met you years ago. We've all known each other for almost like 27 years. So now I got ya. And I'm so excited you guys are here. If you guys want to know more about my friends and see their pictures and read their fun bios, you can find their information in our show notes which are at Okay, now here's what you need to know for this episode, eight different colored pencils, or markers. Oh, and grab a pen. Because today's guests, they are all about words and language and you are going to love what they've prepared. So go get them right now. Pause it, whatever you need to do, run around the house, look under your cushions if you need because if you're like my house, my kids have used every kind of colored pencil or crayon and didn't put it back where it belongs. So go and grab it, gather them because you're going to need stuff. Section 29 has eight different themes or teachings that we have to mark. Otherwise, this section will be so confusing. I'm going to give you the title right now for it because we're only studying one section, you guys. The title for Section 29 is "Future Events." And then you can put "Spiritual Creation and Fall." That is "Future Events: Spiritual Creation, The Fall." And man, this chapter is so packed. So friends, grab your scriptures and let's dig in.

Okay, so because we're just studying one chapter, I asked Kristin and Jill before this episode to just pop in with whatever questions or thoughts that they have while we're reading, because some of this stuff is a little bit confusing. So guys, tell me what your experience was like reading Section 29.

Jill 4:07

I recognize how much I don't know. And so I think that's awesome. Because I'm a seeker and I want to know a lot of things. I often look up definitions of words, like normal words that people should understand. And actually, if you don't know, Kristin's family, they're all grammar snobs. So I've learned that from Hyrum like, you better know—

Tammy 4:26

Better know. It's scripture. Very smart.

Jill 4:28

No, I learned that on day one of meeting his family that when someone asks you how you're doing, you're doing "well." Not "good." So I just have a whole bunch of little notes of words, because I was like, "Really? What does 'indignation' mean? I don't know." Anyway.

Tammy 4:43

Great. I love it.

Jill 4:44

So, yeah. I've got a lot of questions.

Tammy 4:46

Oh, this is gonna be fun. What about you, Kristin?

Kristin 4:49

First off, Jill is no dummy. She is very smart. And we say "good" in our family. Okay. I think that I have learned that I'm a terrible question asker. Sometimes I think I know it all. And I am not good at saying, "Oh gosh, what does that mean?" I'll think, "Oh, I don't know that word. I'll look it up and things like that." But honestly, a quote that I read yesterday was from President Nelson. And he said, "Maybe the question we need to be asking is, 'What does the Lord want me to know? Rather than, What does this mean?'" And I do know that those are the type of questions I do ask when I'm reading the scriptures. "How does this apply to me? What do I need to learn from this?"

Tammy 5:35

Kristin, I love that so much. In fact, here's what I want to do. I want that to be the question of Section 29. "What does the Lord want us to know out of Section 29?" Because there's so much stuff in here. So think about that today as we study this, "What does the Lord want you to know that comes from this section?" So here's what we need to know about Section 29 going into it. This section was given in the presence of six elders. That's what the section heading tells us. I'm going to tell you who these people were. It's given right before the very first General Conference of the Church, which is going to take place in September. Joseph Smith receives this revelation in the presence of Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, John Whitmer, Peter Whitmer, Samuel H. Smith, and Thomas B. Marsh. So we have Section 29. And here's how we're going to bracket off the first grouping of scriptures. Okay, grab your colored pencils and choose one color. As we go through this section, I'm going to tell you to bracket specific verses in one color. Because I said, there are eight different themes here. So don't even try to use one color, it just will be way too confusing. Because the way it's broken up, if you do them in different colors, it just makes so much more sense. So here's our first grouping of verses. I want you to bracket off verses 1 through 8. And we're going to label verses 1 through 8: "Doctrine of Gathering." That's what these verses are talking about, the doctrine of gathering. Now, this is so much fun. This is the first time in scripture the doctrine of gathering is presented, or taught, which is so significant, because our Prophet today talks a lot about gathering. In fact, listen to this statistic that he gave in his conference talk in 2020. I think this is interesting. Kristin, will you read this interesting statistic for us about President Nelson?

Kristin 7:15

In a footnote of President Nelson's 2020 talk, "Let God Prevail," he told us that he has spoken of a specific topic or invitation in at least 378 of the more than 800 messages he has delivered during his 36 years as an apostle.

Tammy 7:32

Thank you. I mean, that's amazing. 378 talks are about gathering. And here we have the first mention of it in scripture. So look back at these verses, in verses 1 through 3. And, Jill, I want you to read for us Section 29 verses 1 through 2. And as Jill reads this, I want you to think "What is the Lord teaching us about gathering? How does he teach it very first to us?"

Jill 7:52

"Listen to the voice of Jesus Christ, your Redeemer, the Great I Am, whose arm of mercy hath atoned for your sins; Who will gather his people even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, even as many as will hearken to my voice and humble themselves before me, and call upon me in mighty prayer."

Tammy 8:09

What imagery does he use? What's he teaching us here?

Jill 8:11

It's the hen gathering her chicks, you know, to be protected. And what I see in that is who is asking, it's the people who hearken and the people who will be humble.

Kristin 8:21

And that's one of my favorite imagery from the Doctrine and Covenants. And also I know, this has come up in the Book of Mormon as well. Just that love and protection and just to think of our Heavenly Father as nurturing. It's very gentle and accepting. I just love that.

For sure. Thank you, both of you. Turn the page, look at verses 7 and 8. And, Kristin, will you please read verse 7? And I want you to circle the name he calls the people that he gathers.

"And ye are called to bring to pass the gathering of mine elect; for mine elect hear my voice and harden not their hearts;"

Tammy 9:00

What does he call those he gathers?

Kristin 9:02

"Mine elect."

Tammy 9:03

Yeah. I love that. Here we have the first mention of gathering and those he gathers are his elect. How does that make you think he feels about us?

Jill 9:13

Well, when I did it, I wrote a note of "Who are the elect?" And so that was my question, you know, that I'm like, "Wait, who is that?" So I actually looked it up in the dictionary. And it said, "Any group of people who have been specifically chosen for their particular qualities." And I thought, "That's cool. What are the qualities that we have to become those chosen and those that he gathers?"

Kristin 9:36

And I noticed, like that right after it says a little bit more about those, maybe qualities, like Jill said, of mine elect. It says that, "Mine elect hear my voice and harden not their hearts."

Tammy 9:47

That's exactly what it is. Mark that, for those of you who are listening. That's what makes us elect. In fact, in verse 2, and we pointed this out, when he says that those who hearken to his voice and humble themselves. So there it is again, hearkening, humbling. How beautiful to think that is what makes us elect. Now let's look at verse 8. Kristin, will you please read that for us?

Kristin 10:09

"Wherefore the decree hath gone forth from the Father that they shall be gathered in unto one place upon the face of this land, to prepare their hearts and be prepared in all things against the day when tribulation and desolation are sent forth upon the wicked."

Tammy 10:25

Okay, we're gonna mark in that verse where it says that they shall be gathered into "one place upon the face of the land, to prepare their hearts and be prepared in all things." That "one place." Sometimes that can get tricky, because we think, "Oh, it must be Zion, and it must be Missouri, and we're all gonna end up there." Jill, I love your face. Tell me what you're thinking.

Jill 10:45

I have it underlined with a question mark: "gathered in one place." "Where's the place?" Like my notes, "Where's it, like, What place are we even talking about?"

Tammy 10:53

Such a great question. So, so many scholars agree that this "one place" is wherever Zion is. And this "one place" can be Arizona, it can be Washington, where you are. It's wherever the Saints gather is this "one place." But then I loved how they even took it a step further, that this one place is the temple. Because look what it does for us in this verse, this "one place" prepares our hearts. And we're prepared in all things against the day of tribulation and desolation. That means when Christ comes again. Isn't that incredible to think that the temple could be that "one place"? And I asked you to kind of think about a time in your life, where the temple prepared your heart or prepared you in all things.

Jill 11:33

I do have an experience. In 2019, I was a Girls' Camp Director, and our theme was "All Things." And my background is in nonprofit youth development. And I was a team director, and I was a camp director, and I can put on camps in my sleep. It's not hard for me. And when I was setting up this camp, I mean, I just hit a roadblock. I was blank. And I remember thinking, "Come on. This is what I do. This shouldn't be hard." And I was prompted to call my friend Lisa Hogle and she came back to me a couple days later, and she's like, "I have an idea. How about we do a temple road trip, and we hit all the temples?" And I was like, "That's awesome." And then right away, it was like, "Yeah. That's great. But that's one way. There needs to be more." But I didn't know what and so I was driving to the temple and as I was driving down, I turn left and on the right is this big field. And I saw these calves in the field. Instantly in my head, the thought came to me, "Emma, one of the girls who was going to be attending Girls' Camp, sees God in animals." And I was like, "She does," and then it was like, "And so does Mary. And Savannah sees it in horses." And I was like, "Okay." And then it was just like, one by one, each girl went through my head. And I was like, "This girl sees it in dance. And Jen goes camping, loves to see it in nature. And Ann Hill road trips, and she sees it in people and trips. And this girl sees it in art and this girl..." and it was just like, all the list of all the girls that I knew. And I just sat in the celestial room until I understood what I was supposed to do. And so, the coolest part, is that after that, I just spent every Friday sitting in the celestial room getting more information until I'd sit there, and I'd say, "Is this it?" and I'd wait until it was clear, and I'd change it. And then, in the end, we ended up like "Girls' Camp: The Road Trip" is what we called it. And we did two temples before and we did three temples on the way. We did horseback riding, we did camping, we did canoeing, we did art, we had a guided meditation. I mean, we just hit "all things" because I wanted the girls to know, there's times when the temple wasn't a place I wanted to be because it was too hard to be there. That's when I needed, I needed the mountains, and I needed friendship, but I needed. And there's just, I knew that somewhere in these girls lives, some of them, they love the temple. And there are those girls who just loved it. In the end, they were like, "The temple was the best." Then other people were like, "The meditation was the best." And I just wanted them to have that basis, we would talk about as we drove like, "Look outside. Look what you see." And we'd talk about it every night. "Where did you see God today?" They were able to list all the things God is when you're sitting around playing cards with your friends, and you're going on a walk. And it's pretty cool, because I've had feedback since then, and a lot of the girls, it was like very impactful for them. And I just wanted to prep them for the future of struggle. And they need to find God where they can find it when when things are hard. So for you saying "all things," I was like, "I'll take that as a sign, God." I know, I know what story to tell. So that's my story.

Wow, thank you, Jill. As you were saying that, it made me think, looking back at a scripture, that we'd be gathered in unto one place, it doesn't necessarily have to be a physical place: outdoors, the temple, dancing, art, whatever it is. So thank you for sharing that. That's a great story.

Kristin 14:43

I agree with Jill in that we can feel that spirit in a lot of different places. But there is something special about the temple that you know what I thought "Gosh, do I have any specific experiences that have prepared me in all things?" And I think every time. I think just the peace that I feel there prepares me to go back home and get in the trenches. I just need that peace. And I love that feeling that I feel there, even if I don't feel like there was a specific prompting that time. There was also a time when—well, it was you, Tammy that said, "We should go to the temple every week." And this is not very flattering for me, but I was kind of like, "Really? Every week?" You know?

Tammy 15:32

Oh, yeah, when we were in college.

Kristin 15:34

Yes. When we were roommates.

Unknown Speaker 15:36

Yeah. But we did it. And honestly, I don't think I ever remember, up until that time, a time where I felt more peaceful and guided and like things were just seem to be going so smoothly. But I know there are things that weren't. But I just was able to cope and handle things better. In particular, though, there was one experience. And that was when I was called to be in the Relief Society. And I was supposed to choose counselors. And I didn't really know anybody. And I'm like, "Well, I could ask Tammy, but she's my roommate. It would be like nepotism, right?" I went to the temple, you know, after a few minutes after sitting and waiting for people to come in, a woman from the ward walked in, and I had never met her before, but I saw her. And just immediately, "She's one of your counselors."

Tammy 16:27

Thank you, Kristin. I appreciate you sharing that story. And how cool to know who your counselor was right then and the timing of that. God is totally in the details. And what I love about your stories and about this verse, specifically, is—just turn back to verse 5 really quickly. We skipped it for a reason because verse 5 tells us how we can then gather. This verse says, "Lift up your hearts and be glad, for I am in your midst, and am your advocate with the Father; and it is his good will to give you the kingdom." Could there be a better cheerleader verse? I think it's neat to "Lift up your hearts and be glad." I put a smiley face next to that verse.

Jill 17:03

I have "I am in your midst." And again, "midst" is one of those things I just take for granted. You kind of say it, but have you ever looked it up? And so I did and it says, "I'm in the middle of" and I thought that was so perfect. Like even with the camp story? Is he in the middle of you playing cards with the special-needs girls around the table? Absolutely. He's in the middle. And I thought that was super cool to just to think "in the middle of" like "in between," "in the middle," like, "just down in there." I thought it was just a really cool clarification for me of a word I take for granted.

Tammy 17:31

You know what, you are totally right. And I love how you just taught us that? Well, and it goes to back to Section 6, where one or two [scripture says 2 or 3] are gathered in my name, I'm in the midst of you. Like, that is so cool, Jill. "The midst" is girls camp. It's when you're teaching your class on Sunday. It's your family. There's so many "midsts." So thank you. Thank you for looking that word up. That was awesome. That was great. Okay, that's just the first 8 verses. So, grab two new colors, because in the next segment, we're going to mark up the next two themes that will show us how the Lord prevails as he gathers us.

Alright, Kristin, so I have such a good memory—well, there's a lot of good memories of being in your home—but one of my favorites is having my very first glass of freshly squeezed orange juice from oranges from the trees in your backyard. And your dad actually made it from oranges off the tree. And your dad's kind of known for doing this. Like he's kind of known as the "Orange Juice Master." Like he loves his fresh-squeezed orange juice. You both, you're nodding your heads. You know.

Jill 18:38

I'm dying because in Washington, this is the first season I've missed it. I only eat oranges once a year. I don't eat oranges. I bought one from the store and I was like, "People eat these?"

Tammy 18:48

Totally, totally. Yeah. So my question is, "How do you know when an orange is ripe and ready to be squeezed though? Is there a trick? How do you know?"

Kristin 18:57

They just come off the tree. When they're ready, you don't have to put much effort into pulling them off. And then they'll be bright colors...

Tammy 19:09

So let's look and see what the word "ripe" has to do with verse 9. Okay, so here we go. And Kristin, will you please read verse 9 for us?

Kristin 19:18

"For the hour is nigh and the day soon at hand when the earth is ripe; and all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, saith the Lord of Hosts, that wickedness shall not be upon the earth."

Thank you. Okay, there's that word. So highlight the word "ripe." So this word when it says "is ripe," it means in iniquity and sin. It's ready. We are ready to be plucked off this tree.

Jill 19:44

I have a cross reference because of what I just read. It's in D&C 18:6 and I thought was cool because in 18:6 he says, "Behold, the world is ripening." And so he's like, "It's ripening" and then we get to this and it's ripe.

Tammy 19:56

That's such a cool connection, Jill. Okay, let's all do this. Let's put this cross reference in our scriptures: Doctrine and Covenants, section 18, verse 6. Thank you for doing that. Because yes, "ripening," and now he's telling us "it's ripe."

Jill 20:08

Yeah. It's done.

Tammy 20:09

It's kind of freaky if you think about it, like, "Okay—

Jill 20:12

All of this is freaky. Come on, let's be real. I'm a little worried.

All of this. The whole section is. Okay, so but here's a good question, though. What do you think it means to be "ripened in iniquity"?

So I've got a daughter who is graduated. And I encourage her, I'm like, "I need you to question, you know, I want you to question everything." Like, "You can question me. You can question whatever. like, Be a seeker." And so somehow we got into conversation, she's like, "Who are the wicked?" So we actually had a discussion, and I researched it and I was, I don't know, we're just thinking, and so I think that's a big question is like, "Where's that line?"

Tammy 20:42

That's a great question, Jill. You know what I love about Section 29 is it teaches us that. Turn the page, verse 45, tells us who the wicked are. This is so great. I love that you asked that. Because we're gonna mark this up. But a lot of these verses are about the Second Coming and everything that happens. But it's so interesting in Section 29, verse 44 and 45 kind of gives us that line. Verse 44, says, "And they that believe not unto eternal damnation; for they cannot be redeemed from their spiritual fall, because they repent not." So those who don't repent, and here's why they don't repent. I think this is the line of the wicked, those who don't repent, and why don't they repent? Verse 45, says, "For they love darkness rather than light, and their deeds are evil, and they receive their wages of whom they list to obey." Is that a good description of wicked?

Jill 21:33

You know how sometimes you read a scripture, and then you're like, "I don't think I've ever heard that before." I've read this section multiple times in preparation. And I literally like, "What? I don't remember reading this because—it's so cool. Like, "They receive their wages of whom they list to obey." You're getting the reward you sought. You did not seek the light. You were a seeker of darkness. I mean, that makes it a little bit more clear. I like that. I'll have to send that to her.

Tammy 21:58

"And their deeds are evil." I mean, I don't know anybody. I can't put anybody in that category in my world. I know there are people out there because I see it on the news. But yeah, like, I don't know anybody whose deeds are evil. I mean, think of that word. "Evil"? Oof. Yeah.

Kristin 22:14

I think that used to kind of bother me as well. Like, where I was very sensitive about judgment and who's to judge and why—how can you put them in that category? But then, I think it hasn't been until just like the last year, that I started to realize, "Why would anybody ever not want to choose God?" I started to realize, well, there are people that may not feel like that's who they want to follow. You know, when I try to think about the third that followed Satan. I'm like, "How could that happen?" But as I see events around me, you know, I can start to see how there are people that are going to choose differently than the way you or I would choose.

Tammy 22:55

Well, Kristin, you're totally right. I'm so glad that you brought that up. Go to verse 27. Here's another description of who the wicked are. And verse 27 says, "And the righteous shall be gathered on my right hand unto eternal life; and the wicked on my left hand will I be ashamed to own before the Father." We always hear about that, how the righteous will be on the right hand, and the wicked will be on the left hand. What's the deal? Right hand, left hand. This is so interesting, highlight the word "left hand" right there. Because people are like, "Well, why? What's the difference between the two hands?" Here's something interesting, though, about the left hand in scripture. The word "lefthand side" in Latin, is the word "sinistra." And it's where we get the word "sinister" from. And the word "sinister" meaning "unfavorably, unlucky, evil, wicked," all of that. And so it's so interesting to me that here we have, the wicked will be on the left side, because they, just like we said earlier, they choose darkness. They prefer that and they do evil. And so that was a great discussion, Jill. I'm so glad you asked that question.

Jill 24:00

Yeah, that's cool. And this is like, in a funny way, my daughter, Josie. She's got like mild dyslexia. And she's still I mean, she's 16. And she still puts her like, fingers up in front of her, but like the "L" with her left hand, and look down at her hands when we're driving or different things, so she knows which way to go. And I think, "Man, I hope Jesus isn't like 'All right, get to the right, get to the left.' Because she's gonna be like, looking at her hands.

Tammy 24:23

Making her "L." I have a daughter the same way. Actually, two of my daughters.

Jill 24:28

Wrong side. like, clearly look at those people. You do NOT, you do not go on that side. And she's like, "Cool. Whatever." Cuz she's also like, the happy-go—we call her the puppy. Because she's like, "Ooh, where are we going? What are we gonna do? Like, this is fun." And she'd look around and be like, "I like those people. They look like nice people over there." And I'd be like, "Come on, kid."

Perfect. That's awesome. Thank you. Okay, well, let's go back and label what these verses are. So verses 9 through 11, here's what you're going to label these. Verses 9 through 11 are solely talking about "Second Coming Ushers in the Millennium." That's what you want to write. And it's going to talk about that. In verse 11 it's going to end with "and dwell in righteousness with men on earth a thousand years, and the wicked shall not stand." It's just incredible. Like that's—And we're going to talk more about the Millennium here. And later on in Section 101. Okay, now I want you to bracket off verses 12 through 13. And we're going to label these verses, because this is a whole other train of thought. So verses 12 through 13 is "The Twelve Will Judge Israel." "The Twelve Will Judge Israel." Now this is a unique thought. Did either one of you have anything you marked on these verses or questions about them?

Kristin 25:41

That stood out to me about "Who will be judges?" and talking about the 12 apostles and how they will judge. I just, I've always had a question about "How will that work?" You know, "Which 12 apostles?" because they say "The 12." Right?

Tammy 25:55

Yeah, great question. So—oh, yes, Jill?

Jill 25:58

You know, I like to look up things so I looked up "judge," and one of the words is "discerned." And so if you switch "judge" to "discern," it just softens it up a little bit. And so I always talk to my kids about judging, like, you're not there to judge anyone, but you are there to discern what's best for you, or what's best for, you know, the choices you make. And so when you think of the 12 judges, it went from this sort of punishment to this, they'll discern, they'll discern, and I'm like, "Oh, they'll just feel and know." I'm like, "Oh, I can handle that. I can handle being in the presence of someone who may be discerning my heart versus judging." It just, the word judge. I just don't like it.

Tammy 26:34

I agree, Jill. And I love that you just pointed that out. Because, ultimately, God is our judge. Our only judge. But how cool to think that these 12 will just help discern all of the children who've ever lived on the earth. So I love how you just couch that in this beautiful experience rather than harsh and judgment. So, thank you, for pointing that out. That's perfect. In our show notes, I'm going to include all the cross references because there are many, where the Lord said to his apostles, "Yeah, you will be judges with me." He says it in Matthew, and then he teaches it again in First Nephi, and in Moroni, that the 12 in the New Testament, will be the discerners. I'm going to put that from now on: "the discerners." Except for Judas Iscariot, he will not be part of the discerning group. He will be one that's going to be discerned, as we know. He'll be there to be discerned with the rest of us. So thank you for pointing it out. That's what it means. They really will. They're going to do that. They're going to discern. And then, in verse 13, there's a couple cool things about this verse. In verse 13, it says, "For a trump shall sound both long and loud, even as upon Mount Sinai." You can put Exodus, chapter 19, verses 16 through 20. Because it's the story where this happened. Where Moses was on the Mount Sinai with the Lord and it did shake, it did quake, so he's referring to that Old Testament experience saying, "It happened then. I'm gonna have it happen again now." That's why that's in there. Then he says, and then "They shall come forth—yea, even the dead which died in me." When you read that in Scripture, "the dead which died in me" means "those who died after the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and they are waiting to be resurrected." They're righteous, they're waiting. And then I love this verse: "to receive a crown of righteousness." Now, we all have daughters. Did any of your girls get into princesses and crowns when they were little? What was it like for them when they put on a crown?

Jill 28:22

There was a lot of spinning and twirling. Spinning and twirling and oversized dresses that ended up also pajamas because they just lived in them. That's what I see.

Tammy 28:35

How about you, Kristin?

Kristin 28:36

Yeah, same. Well, one of my daughters. They're very opposite. But the one that was into crowns, and definitely the drama and the acting and prancing around, and...

Tammy 28:48

It was always happy. And it was always like, "La la la la la," you know, "I have on a crown." And there's a lot of beautiful imagery when we read about a crown in scriptures, because often the Lord uses this imagery. And here's what we need to know about this, because I loved this. So, this is so interesting, this idea about crowns because the crown through history has been a very strong symbol. We have in ancient Greece, during the Olympics, an olive leaf crown was given to the winner, the one who prevailed over his opponent. Romans would give a laurel leaf crown to the captain that triumphed in war over his opponent. And of course, you know, then we also have a monarchy, the king, the queen, the crown of royalty and what that means. I also thought it was interesting that the crown of thorns was given to mock Jesus Christ, kind of antithesis against everything that we've just talked about with a crown. So in scripture, a crown is often used to symbolize that we are the victor, that we triumphed, we are royal. That is what we are being taught in this verse. So when it says right there that we will receive a crown, that is a symbol of us, a symbol of our divinity, of our victory, of our triumph over evil, and that God has prevailed. It's a symbol of Israel. It's a symbol of that word from our Prophet, which we learned in Hebrew, which means that God prevails. And we will be one, as verse 13 ends, that we "be clothed upon, even as I am, to be with me, that we may be one" wearing these beautiful, symbolic crowns. Jill, you look like you have something to say. Share.

Jill 30:19

You know how the saints sometimes are painted? And I was wondering like is it a literal crown? Or is it this crown of light? That it's like, "Oh, look, there's a crown of light around their head."

Tammy 30:30

Great question. In fact, look at the footnote for the word "crown," because I think this is really cool. I love the footnote, it says "exaltation." And he's using this imagery of crown because when you read that, you would know back anciently what it meant, "Oh, you were the victor, you won, you prevailed, you beat your opponent." And who's our opponent? The devil. Satan.

Kristin 30:52

Another something that came to mind when you were talking about light, Jill, around your head. And I just was thinking about how, in the scriptures, light is often equal to exaltation, but also equal to knowledge and how, you know, the more knowledge we have, the more light we have. And so, you know, when we are exalted, we're compared to it having light. And so I think that is, there is something to that.

Tammy 31:18

Absolutely. Kristin. Oh, I like that. That's so cool. Thank you. Oh, that's all we have for those verses. And, if you notice, we didn't really talk a lot about this in verse 8, we just kind of read "tribulation and desolation," which seems pretty scary, because it is. And so we are going to get into some pretty graphic and, maybe alarming for some, verses, and we're gonna do that in the next segment.

Okay, so let's jump right in and bracket off the next verses we're going to study. So bracket off verses 14 through 21. Would you guys agree that these verses are graphic and alarming?

Jill 32:00


Tammy 32:01

Absolutely. Because the title for these verses are "Signs to Proceed the Second Coming." Huhhhhh. These verses were always kind of a fun attention-getter with my students. When we talked about the Second Coming, I would always go, "Well, let's go to Section 29. You think that's bad? Look what's gonna happen in here?" And then we'd read these verses, and they're like, "Gah! Gross! Bleh!" So, they're fun verses to read and a little bit scary. So here is what I want to know. What did you guys mark? What stood out to you that's going to happen when Christ comes again?

Kristin 32:33

Well, I didn't mark anything because I don't even like to think about hair falling out of heads. And things like that.

Tammy 32:39

Sure. Sure.

Jill 32:39

I've marked "indignation." Because, again, it's one of those words that people say it and you're like, "Uh-huh," and you nod, but you're like, "Really? What does that word mean?"

Tammy 32:46

Tell us what verse you're in. So give us the verse and then tell us more.

Jill 32:48

In verse 17, he says, "for the cup of mine indignation is full." And I always think like, "Okay," but I looked it up, and it says, "anger about a situation that you think is wrong, or not fair." And I thought it would just change it for me. So it comes from this, sort of this angry, this is a punishment for it, it's like, "I'm done with things being not fair for people, and I'm done with things being wrong." And so I just thought it was a really cool kind of pivot in my brain. And then it goes on to say, "for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not." And so he's like, "My blood is for those people." You know, and he's like, he's standing up for, you know, standing up for the little guy or the victim or the, you know, the people where it isn't fair. And there's a lot of things going on in the world where it's just not fair. And it's not good and it's at the hands of evil people who are dark and want power. And you can list a bazillion things that are going that just, you don't even want to think about. And that's who he's talking about. He's like, "It's not fair anymore, and I'm not allowing it." Before it was agency and it was timing and it was stuff but like, "I'm here and we're done." You know, like when you're a parent, and your kids do stuff and you're finally like, and you let it go and you let it go, and finally like, "Okay, no. We're done. You're done. We're done here. Something's about to happen." And then they like run and scatter. I don't know, maybe that's just my house.

Tammy 34:01

No, no, that's exactly what I thought Jill, because when he says "the cup of mine indignation is full." That's it! We're done! It's full! I mean, just the imagery of that. So I love that just brought that up. That is awesome!

Jill 34:15

And it can't be easy for him. Like a lot of times we'll just like, oh, "It's up there or in my brain." Okay, I've got like imagery of he's just busy doing this and this, but there's got to be times when he's like, "Man, we gotta be done here." And Christ has got to be like, "I can't watch this anymore. I can't." Like it's gotta be hard to watch as much as it's supported and atoned for and stuff, it can't be easy to watch.

Tammy 34:35

Absolutely. Anything else that stood out to you? Any other of those verses?

Kristin 34:40

I was just thinking about when you said, "That's enough." I just really could think of my own self with my kids. When my cup is full. You know, I'll try to be patient and a really nice mom and long-suffering. Well, they get more and more crazy or angry or fight, you know what, especially with the fighting, sometimes. But anyway, the funniest thing that my sister Katie has said that she told her kids that she'll be so patient for so long, and then all of a sudden, it's like mama bear comes out, where you're just like, "I've had enough! That's it!" And the kids all of a sudden are like, "Oh my gosh, what's the big deal? Like?"

Tammy 35:21

I call it, for me, it's the Kraken. Release the Kraken. And I'm like, "Rawrrrr!" And I'm screaming.

Kristin 35:27

Yeah. So it seems like, "Oh, I've just been going along, and all of a sudden, my wrath is just unleashed." And I think that maybe the Lord gets just impatient, and especially when it's people are harming his children. Right? We're harming each other. We're, you know, when we hate, I hate it when I see my kids fighting. I'm like, "You know, you guys are brothers and sisters, you should love one another. And I want you to love each other and help each other because we're going to be forever family." I can relate to that feeling of sadness and anger if they're not treating each other right.

Tammy 36:04

You know what, Kristin? Wow, that was such great insight, because we are a family. And I think it does break his heart. I'm sure of it. I really like how you both framed that word and idea. So thank you. Look at verse 16. This is an interesting one: "And there shall be a great hailstorm." I'm going to give you a cross reference for that. It's Revelation, chapter 16, verse 21. And in Revelation 16:21, it refers to this great hailstorm, and Revelation tells us that the size of the hail will be so great that it will weigh the equivalent of 50 to 100 pounds. So in this verse, it says the weight of a talent, and today that would equate to be about 50 to 100 pounds. Not that much, you know. And so whenever I hear of pieces of hail that are really huge, I'm like, "We're getting close. We're getting there. But you know, we're quite there yet." But does it really mean 50 to 100 pounds? I don't know, it could just mean "Hail will be big. It's going to destroy the crops, and it's going to cause a lot of damage before he comes." That's one of the signs. Then you keep going in verses 18 and 19. I mean, just crazy stuff. I thought 20 was interesting. When it says, "And it shall come to pass that the beasts of the forest and the fowls of the air shall devour them up." And I looked that up. And the reason why the beast will devour up our bodies is because we will be too weak to even fight off the beasts from all that has happened in the earlier verses. I mean, that's that's pretty graphic and gory. Flesh will fall from our bones. The eyes will fall out of our sockets.

Jill 37:32

Which guys? Is that all of us?

Tammy 37:34

That is such a good question! So let me share this quote with you. Okay, this is interesting. This is what Jesus had to say about all this craziness and destruction. And Jill, I'm going to let you read this quote.

Jill 37:46

Yeah, you will. [laughter] "Concerning the coming of the Son of Man … it is a false idea that the Saints will escape all the judgments, whilst the wicked suffer; for all flesh is subject to suffer, and ‘the righteous shall hardly escape’; still many of the Saints will escape, for the just shall live by faith; yet many of the righteous shall fall a prey to disease, to pestilence, etc., by reason of the weakness of the flesh, and yet be saved in the Kingdom of God.”

Tammy 38:11

Did that answer your question?

Jill 38:14

Yeah, but like—

Tammy 38:15

Tell me about that. Is it fair?

Jill 38:16

No! No, I don't get that.

Tammy 38:19

I really appreciate that the Lord couched these verses with verse 13, where he says that those who die in Christ will have a crown of righteousness, will be clothed even as he is that we may be one with him. So it doesn't matter, if all of this yuck happens to us, it's okay. Because we know that we have chosen the right, we'll be with God. That is what we want. And again, going back to this idea of if we're not wicked, then we must be righteous. And if we're righteous, look what we get.

Jill, you look like you have something to say.

Jill 38:49

In 21, it says like the whore of all the earth. And I was like, I mean, we know what that is in modern terms. But so I looked it up and it says "a person considered as having compromised principles for personal gain." I mean, look at child sex-trafficking and stuff like that, is that not exactly what that is? Compromised principle for personal gain at the expense of others? And then it goes on and it said "abomination," which is another one of those words that I always just nod, like, "Uh-huh, abomination." But the dictionary, this is actually I think, in the Bible Dictionary, and it says, "any heathen or immoral practice." So he says, like, "for immoral practices shall not reign." And I was like, "Oh, thank you!" Like that's the part where I was like, "Okay, cool. I'm super down for when there's not any of those things." And that's the wicked, right? That's the immoral practices. That's who he's done with.

Tammy 39:40

Yes. Oh my gosh, Jill, I love that you did that. I'm in fact, I'm going to mark that right now. Everyone mark "abominations" and put—what'd you say again? "Immoral practices?"

Jill 39:48

It says, "Any heathen or immoral practice" and I skipped the heathen part because I was like, we joke about that in our family all the time.

Tammy 39:56

Wow, that is powerful. I love that you looked that up. Thank you. Okay. Anything else stand out to you in those verses about when Christ comes again, or any thoughts that you have?

Kristin 40:05

So, you know, when I was younger, I don't know if it was Sunday School or you know, seminary or what, but I just remember somebody trying to define what the abominable church was. And people made the comment that it was the Catholic Church. And that kind of bothered me. Because I'm like, "Well, what's so wrong about, you know, there's so many good people?" And of course, now we know that's not true. That was, you know, false doctrine. But then I realized that the abominable church and looking that up, it talks about just people who don't follow Christ, that follow Satan. And to me that's like, it can be anything. It can be somebody who worships their sport, or fame, or money, or, you know, somebody who puts things in first, but not God first.

Tammy 40:58

Absolutely. Kristin, I'm so glad you brought that up. Because that's exactly what it is. We do not believe it's any one religion. We do believe that it's any person or group that fights against Zion, or Jesus Christ. And it can happen even within our own religion, who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that also have a membership to the great and abominable church. For sure. So I'm so glad you brought that up. Thank you. Jill, go ahead.

I did look it up. And I do have a—

Kristin 41:22

Thank you.

Jill 41:23

[Laughs and protests]

Tammy 41:28

No, I love it. Tell us about it.

Jill 41:31

It's "Every evil and worldly organization on earth that perverts the pure and perfect gospel and fights against the Lamb of God."

Kristin 41:38

Yeah, that said it way better.

Jill 41:39

I found that somewhere on or somewhere. I didn't write, I usually write a little source on there. But I—

Tammy 41:45

Tell me exactly what it is. No, I'm so glad because that's exactly what it is. Okay, so that was so cool. I mean, just those verses right there are some of the signs of the Second Coming. And we're going to talk more about the Second Coming when we get to Section 45. So that's the end of that. So in the next segment, we're going to talk about what happens after Christ comes. And I think you guys will like these verses a lot.

Okay, let's label and bracket off our next set of scriptures. It's verses 22 through 29. And here's what we're going to label them: "Events after the Millennium, General Resurrection." "Events after the Millennium, General Resurrection."

Jill 42:33

I have a millennial, I have a Millennium question.

Tammy 42:35

Okay, go ahead.

Jill 42:37

I can tell you I'm making everybody comfortable who do not know things. So in the Millennium, if Christ is on the earth, but some people are resurrected, right? Who's resurrected? Who's not? And do people like live and die? And so it's different people, like it's just still generations coming through there. I don't know how any of that works.

Tammy 42:58

These are really, really good questions. So in Section 88, verses 97 through 102, we get this brief synopsis of sequence of events that will happen at the resurrection when Christ comes again. And the order corresponds with the degrees of glory, which I think is so interesting. So for those of you that have in your patriarchal blessing, your promise to come forth in "the morning of the first resurrection," this is what it means. At the coming of Jesus Christ, those who will inherit the Celestial Kingdom will be resurrected first. Then, as part of that first resurrection, and sometimes it's referred to as the afternoon of the first resurrection, we have what's called a "terrestrial resurrection." And all those who will inherit that kingdom will be raised. Then, at the very end of the Millennium, the unjust or the "telestial" people who are receiving that kingdom, will be resurrected. And then, very lastly, the Sons of Perdition will be resurrected and go right into outer darkness. We'll study this so much more in Section 88. So that's just a little teaser. How do you like that? I mean, it's just so crazy. So what we do know is, first of all, in verse 11, go back to that. It tells us how long the Millennium will last, at the very end of verse 11. How many years will it last?

Kristin 44:10

What, like a millennium?

Tammy 44:11

Yep. Exactly. 1000 years. And people are like, "Is it really 1000 years? Or is it God's 1000 years? Or is it just a weird timeframe?" And everything we know is, it's 1000 years, and there's a lot of work that needs to be done during this 1000 years. A ton of temple work. We're getting ready so that everybody can have a fair game at Judgment Day. Now if we go into verse 22, we're going to just look at some of these verses. When we start to talk about the Millennium and everything that's going to happen, verse 22 says, "Again, verily, verily, I say unto you that when the thousand years are ended, and men again begin to deny their God," highlight "men again begin to deny their God." This is referring to Revelation chapter 20, verses 7 through 21. And we also read about it in Doctrine and Covenants, Section 88, verses 110 through 116. That phrase means, it's talking about when Satan will be loosed. So he's going to be bound for a thousand years. He will have zero influence over anybody. Until the very end of the millennium, he gets one more chance, one last shot to tempt and try the people who had been living on the earth throughout the Millennium. But let's look at what the Millennium will be like. Jill, will you read verses 28 [through] 30 [in D&C 101]?

Jill 45:20

"And in that day Satan shall not have power to tempt any man. And there shall be no sorrow because there is no death. In that day an infant shall not die until he is old; and his life shall be as the age of a tree."

Tammy 45:32

That's crazy. So "age of a tree," mark that. Joseph Fielding Smith taught that what that means is 100 years old. So you will live on the earth until you are 100 years old. There's not any death. So the only people really out of jobs are morticians, maybe. I guess. But it's interesting, because then in verse 31, it says, "And when he dies he shall not sleep, that is to say in the earth, but shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and shall be caught up, and his rest shall be glorious." And I always say to my students, "We'll have twinkling parties. Like, 'Hey, everybody, I'll be 100 tomorrow. Come on over, we're gonna cut cake. And I'll be changed.'"

Jill 46:04

That's kind of what I was thinking. I was like, "Ooo, is that like a party. Like—

Kristin 46:07

I want to do that.

Tammy 46:08

Yeah, doesn't that sound wonderful? So knowing that then, leading up to this millennial experience, this millennial reign, is I think some of the most shocked people during this time will be members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, when they find out who stays and who doesn't. Because it's not just members of our Church who will live. It's anyone—and this is many scholars, many prophets have taught—anyone living a terrestrial life, or higher, will live. So a lot of really good, wonderful, religious people are going to be on this earth who do not belong to our Church, which is totally fine. We love that. And it's going to be a wonderful, peaceful time, until the very end, when Satan is going to be loosed, and he's going to have a chance to tempt all the people who lived on the earth. And we're never, ever tempted. Can you imagine what that must be like? I mean, it just blows my mind. And then we have verses 23 and 24. Because then when that happens, it says in there, "the earth shall be consumed and pass away." In verse 24, "old things shall pass away, and all things become new." I would mark those both and connect them because it basically means the earth will be born again. We're going to have a brand-new earth. Cleansed and clean and wonderful. And then we get to meet—this, I really like this verse, verse 26. And Kristin, will you read verse 26?

Kristin 47:27

"But, behold, verily I say unto you, before the earth shall pass away, Michael, mine archangel, shall sound his trump, and then shall all the dead awake, for their graves shall be opened, and they shall come forth—yea, even all."

Tammy 47:44

Thank you. This is so interesting, because Michael is Adam. And that name, that word "archangel," a lot of people think that's Gabriel in other religions. But we have it here revealed to us that it's Adam. And it's kind of cool, because I looked up the word "archangel" and I really like that the definition of this is "First angel, ruling angel, or presiding angel." That's what that means in Greek. And so the first angel, the ruling angel would be Adam. So this is where we get his name, and who he is. And so he will be there. And he will come forth, "yea, even all." And then we have verse 27, the right hand, the left hand, the wicked, the righteous, I mean, there's just so much here.

Kristin 48:22

I love about the "old things shall pass away, and all things shall become new."

Tammy 48:26

Oh, why?

Kristin 48:27

Looking forward to that just because of all the, you know, the suffering that you see, and, you know, imperfections, and even with the earth, you can just tell that we live on an aging, imperfect planet, and I think it would be so nice to see what that would be like, to be in a Garden of Eden like place, you know?

Tammy 48:49

Yeah. Kristin, I want you to read this quote. This is, just because you brought this up, this is a great quote by Parley P. Pratt. And so, Kristin, I want you to read it.

Kristin 48:56

“A new heaven and a new earth are promised by the Lord and recorded by the sacred writers. Or, in other words, the planetary systems are to be changed, purified, refined, exalted and glorified, in the similitude of the resurrection, by which means all physical evil or imperfection will be done away.”

Tammy 49:17

Thank you. So much to take in. Ah. Okay, so right there, that's Millennium. Okay, I just want you to think for a minute though. Can you imagine being one of those six men that this is being given to, and you're hearing this revelation thinking, "What? It...?" I mean, this is so new, right?

Kristin 49:35

I'd be the emoji with the exploding brain.

Tammy 49:39


Jill 49:41

I would just be completely overwhelmed. Which would probably be why I wasn't in the picture that time.

Tammy 49:49

I think, I dare say there might have been those feelings like, "Wait. This is too much because we've never known any of this." I mean, this is so new to them. And what I think is so cool is how the Lord teaches this in Section 29 is so superb. Because now in the next segment, he's going to teach them some more stuff that I think a lot of them are like, "Wait, what? We've never known it to be that way." So we'll tell you what that is in the next segment.

Alright ladies, let's mark verses 30–35. And these verses are called "Important Truths Regarding the Creation." Okay, this had to have blown all of their minds, because it blows a lot of our minds when we think about it. So here's what I want us to do. We're going to read verses 31 and 32. And as we read these verses, my question is, "How does the Lord view us first?" And Jill, will you read both of those verses, please?

Jill 50:49

"For by the power of my Spirit created I them; yea, all things both spiritual and temporal— First spiritual, secondly temporal, which is the beginning of my work; and again, first temporal, and secondly spiritual, which is the last of my work."

Tammy 51:05

Okay, how does he view us first?

Jill 51:07


Tammy 51:08

Spiritual. He's teaching such a fundamental, profound concept here. That you were created spiritually first, and that's how he viewed you first. I mean, just applying that to your own lives, "How does that help knowing that God sees you as a spiritual being first?"

Kristin 51:26

To me, it just—my mind immediately goes to the temple. And I think of how this plan has existed way before we came to earth. And he knows us spiritually. He knew us spiritually first. That's how he knows what we'd need in the temporal form with our bodies. It's comforting, I guess you could say.

Tammy 51:48

For sure. What about you, Jill? You look very pensive.

Jill 51:52

Just knowing, I guess, more like what power I have. You know, because I think a lot of times, we just kind of forget that stuff. We go doing our normal things, we're going to the grocery store, and we're trying to make sure our kids survive COVID-school and make it on the soccer team. And you know, that sort of thing. You kind of just get busy with worldly tasks of nothing. And then, every once in a while, you just get that awakening, or that reminder, when you read the scriptures, or something comes to you that you're like, "Oh, yeah." And this magnificent spirit with all this power and potential and connection to other spirits like mine, and you can stop sometimes, like, look around, and you can see people like that sometimes, you know, you're in that frame of mind, and it's just kind of cool.

Tammy 52:34

Thank you for sharing that. You know, as we were talking about this, it reminded me of when I taught in the women's prison. And I can remember saying to them, trying to help instill in them that God knows them, and God loves them. And I would say, "He knew you before you came here. Like he knew you before you were in prison." And in their minds, they're like, "Well, yeah, he probably knew me before I got caught." But that's not what we were trying to imply. Like, "No, he knew you before you came here as a physical human being." And, for a lot of these young women, their bodies were their prisons. I mean, they had experienced so much heartache and turmoil and yuck. And I would try to help them remember, "No, God knew you as a spiritual being. How amazing you are, how incredible you are, and all the good things that he has in store for you." And when we can remember that that's how God knows us and loves us, then anything's possible. He can help us do anything. And he's like, "I remember you before you were famous," or whatever, you know. "I remember you before, before you ended up in prison, and, and I know who you really truly are." And greater than anything we can even imagine.

Jill 53:36

I think that's super cool, seeing that in that framework and seeing it from that perspective. How limiting it must have felt, you know, if that's the only identity you thought you had. That's a punch in the gut all the time, when you wake up and think, "This is all I got?" You know, like this could be hard to overcome. But if it's like, that's not actually even you, it's just kind of a choice in a path. You have more of a history before you got here than here and just be like, you've lived for a long time. If I were in that position, I would hope I could embrace that concept and realize, like, "Oh, this was a blip. I could change and do and grow." And, you know, and a lot of times, even like teaching my kids, I am like, "You need to reconnect to whom you've always been." Is whom correct? Uh-oh. And I'm getting nervous because the Candlands are watching me, and I said it wrong.

Tammy 54:22

No, Jill, I love that you just said that because right when you said that, I thought, I bet there's a lot of people who wake up every morning and think, "This is as good as it gets?" And you're like, "No, like, you're amazing. You're incredible. You're God's favorite. Let's be clear about that. 100%. And he's gonna make it right." And he does that in these verses. He loves us spiritual first. Temporal? This is just temporal, it's our physical body, blah. And so he loves us first spiritual, and he's going to help us make it through this temporal yuck that we're in. And, for some of us, it is a very big yuck. And so then we go into more of these verses because here's some other things that I want us to think about. Because now he's going to teach us another profound truth, a principle, and it's in verses 34 and 35. So, Kristin, will you read 34 and 35? And my question to you is, "How does the Lord view commandments now?" Go ahead, Kristin.

Kristin 55:12

"Wherefore, verily I say unto you that all things unto me are spiritual, and not at any time have I given unto you a law which was temporal; neither any man, nor the children of men; neither Adam, your father, whom I created. Behold, I gave unto him that he should be an agent unto himself; and I gave unto him commandment, but no temporal commandment gave I unto him, for my commandments are spiritual; they are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual."

Tammy 55:47

Tell me what this teaches us about the commandments?

Kristin 55:50

That they're spiritual. And I guess, by being spiritual, then they're eternal.

Tammy 55:56

Oh, I like that, Kristin. That's awesome. For sure. I want you to think about some of the commandments that you've kept. And here's my question for you. "What are some examples of spiritual blessings that come when we keep physical commandments?"

Kristin 56:11

Well, because I'm Captain Obvious a lot of the time, I mean, I can just think, okay, you know, the Word of Wisdom. Definitely blessings from living the Word of Wisdom. And, you know, the law of tithing. Many times, my husband is like, "We must be paying our tithing." You know, when we're able to make ends meet when we need to. I know by living these commandments, I have faith that I will receive all the blessings that the Lord has in store for me.

Tammy 56:39

For sure. What about you, Jill? Or is there ever time either one of you directly saw a blessing that came from keeping a commandment?

Jill 56:47

When I was in my 20s, and I've graduated from college, and all my roommates had gotten married, and I was, you know, I was the last one. And I was working. And I just started to slowly, like, make poor decisions. I didn't see it coming. It was like, all of a sudden, I found myself in a position where I'm like, "Oh, this isn't good." I didn't have a ward, but I had a roommate at the time, she's like, "Just come to my ward." And I met with the bishop. And he's like, "You're not technically in my boundaries. But I'll let you come back if you meet with me every week." And at that point, like we had a heart-to-heart talk. And he's like, "Because of the decisions you have made, you can't take the sacrament." That was like, "I get it." But he's like, "But you have to meet with me if you, if you're serious." I'm like, "Okay." And it's at that point where I had recognized, "Oh, I'm down a path that is not the path I ever saw me going down." And I never imagined that that's where I was, actually. I didn't even notice. But I wasn't allowed to take the sacrament. And, when you're taking the sacrament every week, you don't recognize something until you can't do it anymore. And like, the coolest part is that the day I took the sacrament, it was like, the doors of revelation just opened up to me. And I never recognized that they were shut because there wasn't really anything I was thinking. I mean, it goes into the story of me being married. I went out with Kristin's brother, on Friday and Saturday, we—it wasn't a date, we were just hanging out. And he literally was just a guy, like he, that was not on my radar. And then on Sunday, I went to church and I got the sacrament back. And then immediately I was like, "That's the man I'm supposed to marry." And it was just an absolute clarity. And I guess would be the best way to describe it, a clarity in my mind. It unlocked something. And it was like one of the coolest experiences that I count as like, as one of my testimonies. Is that there is a power in the simple thing of taking the sacrament, and we say it, and we know it's serious. But until you don't have it, you don't know what it is. And once I had that now, I regard it is so much more sacred. It does give you the Spirit and it does give you things that you didn't have when you didn't have it. and I had to, I had to have it taken away and not being able to have it before I knew what I had. And then I told him on Tuesday, I was like, "I think we're supposed to get married." Can you imagine?! I was all, "Um, I got something to say to you." He's all, "Me, too." And I was like, I can't even be the same. You know, I was like, "Oh, you have no idea." And I was so embarrassed. I was like actually embarrassed. I'm all, "Uh, okay, I'm just gonna say it: I think we're supposed to get married." He's all, "Me, too!" And I was like, "Okay, cool." And at this point, I didn't even know his middle name.

Tammy 59:21

Oh, my gosh.

Jill 59:23

And so, and that's how I knew, because I was not someone—I had no plans. It was not in my thing. And anyways, the Lord knew and he, the Lord, was basically like, "You're done." And I was like, "Okay, I guess we should get to know each other." That's, and so I'm like, "Let's date for nine months, just in case that I don't know how the spiritual thing works." So...

Kristin 59:39

I love that story. Because I was at home, like maybe on a break or something. And I've never seen Hyrum so happy and giddy. And I think it was before he even told you. He was just like, "Oh my gosh, I'm getting married!" And he was just all giddy. And I'm like, "What? Wait? To—?" and I said somebody else's name because I didn't know Jill. And he had been dating somebody else not very long before that. So anyway, it was great, a great story.

Tammy 1:00:06

And to know you two, you're like, "Yep. That's exactly how it's supposed to work."

Kristin 1:00:10

Totally. Yeah, totally.

Tammy 1:00:12

Wow. Well, Jill, thank you for being honest. I appreciate your candor. That's the word. Just thanks for sharing that story. And my favorite part was when you said that the doors of revelation had been shut. Because I don't think sometimes we think that's the blessing of keeping the commandments is that the doors of revelation would be open. That, which is one of the most incredible, groundbreaking teachings from Joseph Smith. And think that that was restored through this, through The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to receive revelation again. So thank you for sharing that. That was awesome. Great example. A great example of that, and to have the commandments be spiritual. It really does affect our spirit. Thank you.

So we're going to get into the last segment now. So grab your next two colors, and we're going to mark how the Lord will prevail in our lives and how all of this comes together in these next two sections.

Okay, we're going to mark up these last verses. You guys ready? There's two parts to it. So here's the first thing I want you to mark. So verses 36 through 45, mark those and label them "The Fall." And then we have verses 46 through 50. And these are called "The Innocence of Little Children." Going back to our meat metaphor from the very beginning, I'm hoping no one's too full, because we have just a little bit more than I'm going to feed you. Okay, so get comfortable, loosen your belt, whatever you need to do. This is some really good stuff. So I'm going to take you through these verses. And then anything you guys have, just jump in, give me some definitions, whatever you got. So starting in verse 36, here's the first thing I want to show you. Verse 36 says, "And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the devil—" and then do you see that dash right there? That's an important dash. Circle it, and highlight it. And then go down to verse 39 at the very end, and there's another dash. Circle that, and highlight it. Now there's a phrase for this. It's called a parenthetical interruption to the original line of thought. So what we have is, Joseph is receiving this revelation and it says, "And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the devil—" Wait a minute, I'm going to tell you something about the devil. So we're going to stop that train of thought, and now he's going to teach us about the devil. And then we're gonna come back to the train of thought in verse 40. So let's see what these verses say about Satan. It says, "For, behold, the devil was before Adam." Now highlight the word "devil" because this is an interesting name. In Greek, the name "devil" means "one who separates or divides." Boy, could that not be more true? ". . . was before Adam, for he rebelled against me, saying, Give me thine honor, which is my power; and also a third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away from me because of their agency." Highlight "because of their agency." Right here we have our first use of agency here. And it's not free, though. And the word "free" is never used in scripture when it comes to agency. We just need to make sure we understand that. Mark it, know it, love it, believe it. Okay, verse 37, "And they were thrust down, and thus came the devil and his angels." And then in verse 38, "And, behold, there is a place prepared for them from the beginning, which place is hell." That word "hell" is outer darkness. Thrust down? That's interesting, because in Revelation, chapter 12, verse 9, it tells us that those who followed Satan were [cast out] or thrust down to this earth. They're here on the earth making our lives miserable. Do we agree?

Jill 1:03:39

Yeah. No. Things are going swimmingly for me. [sarcastic]

Tammy 1:03:43

Yeah. Okay. Not bad at all. [continued sarcasm]

Jill 1:03:45

It's hard. I don't like them.

Tammy 1:03:46

Okay, so that's the end of this parenthetical interruption. It's like, "And let me tell you a little bit about the devil and how that all worked out." And again, you can imagine these six men going, "What? Wait, what?"

Jill 1:03:56

I have something in 36 I want to say. I thought it was interesting, as I read in it, and it says, "for he rebelled against me, saying, Give me thine honor, which is my power." And the way I understood this, is he's like asking for the honor of God, which would be his power without earning it. That came into my head, that Christ earned it. And we all kind of have to earn it. And I've really been learning about the priesthood power and the priesthood power that women have, and all those different things. And it came to me that Satan wanted the easy way out, and he's like, "I don't want to, I don't want to be the person that goes down and becomes the Savior, or I don't wanna have to go and do all that stuff. Like, that's gonna be hard." I don't know. It was just a little like lightbulb moment for me.

Tammy 1:04:37


Jill 1:04:38

And then when it went on, it talks about, you know, because of their agency. I've always considered like, a lot of times we think like, "If we came down, we're the ones who, we're here and we're about it." But I always think, "Was I on the line?" Because I'm also one of those people who's like, "That kind of makes sense a little bit."

No, Jill, I've thought that same thing. Like, "Where did I fall?" Like, "How...?" You know. I mean, of course, my patriarchal blessing cleared some of that up. But, you know.

I mean, there are some people who just barely made it down here.

Kristin 1:05:13


Tammy 1:05:14

Yeah, they're called Uzelacs. They're my family. Sorry, mom and dad, but we all know it.

Kristin 1:05:20

Right? We're the borderline ones.

Jill 1:05:22

Well, I just, it's so fun. Because to talk about this. It's just really interesting, because so we did choose. And now here we are in this earth life. And in verse 43, it gives us a phrase for what this life is called. And, Jill, just read the very beginning until you get to that dash.

"And thus did I, the Lord God, appoint unto man the days of his probation—"

Tammy 1:05:42

And isn't that interesting? Because we've talked about the women in jail and this idea of what probation is. But "the days of our probation," What is that telling us?

Kristin 1:05:50

You know, that it doesn't matter where we fell before we came to earth, I guess. But I think that the fact that we are here, we made it here and we have a chance to prove ourselves, to return to Heavenly Father. Just who are you going to follow?

Tammy 1:06:04

No, you're absolutely right. And verse 42, was so interesting to me. I really liked verse 42. And so, Kristin, will you read verse 42 for us?

Kristin 1:06:12

"But, behold, I say unto you that I, the Lord God, gave unto Adam and unto his seed, that they should not die as to the temporal death, until I, the Lord God, should send forth angels to declare unto them repentance and redemption, through faith on the name of mine Only Begotten Son."

Tammy 1:06:31

There is something so wonderful and fascinating about verse 42. When it says he "gave unto Adam and unto his seed, that they should not die as to the temporal death, until I, the Lord God, should send forth angels to declare unto them..." Basically he's saying, "I gave them time to repent and to learn about the gospel of Jesus Christ. But they got a lot of time to do it." I mean, so much time. It's so interesting that their lives were lengthened, so that whole dispensation would have a chance to repent. That's why when you read in the scriptures, Methuselah lived to be what, 969 years old? Holy cow! The Lord wanted to give them as much time as he thought they needed to figure it out, to learn to repent. And when he realized, "Oh, they're not taking all that time." It's interesting because their days will not be shortened until after the flood. When the flood happens is when God begins to shorten man's time. Now he's like, "Let's just give them 80 years. Let's not make this drag out for hundreds of years." And hoping that we'll be able to figure it out in a shorter amount of time. I love Lectures on Faith because it teaches us that on the earth at one time, we had Adam, Seth, Enos, Canaan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, and Noah. All those prophets were on the Earth at the same time, trying to teach the people the gospel of Jesus Christ. Like, "Let's figure this out." That's a long time. That's a long probation, you guys. And I'm really grateful we brought that down to about 80 years, or 102.

Jill 1:07:55

I just looked up "probation."

Tammy 1:07:56

Jill, tell us about probation.

Jill 1:07:58

Well, it says "a process or period in which a person's fitness as for work or membership in a social group is tested."

Kristin 1:08:04

Makes sense. You know, like that's your time of testing. So, again, it's one of those concepts. We've always said like "tested" and all that stuff. But like to know that term "probation" is just kind of a source. I just found that interesting.

Tammy 1:08:15

Well, and going back to your word "tested," Jill. I love that you gave us that definition. Because the next part, verses 46 through 50 are about people who will not be tested. But still get celestial kingdom. And I love that God has like, it's kind of like he gives us the plan. And then he has these cute little like, "Hey, by the way, what about these? What about kids who died before they're eight?" And God's like, "Oh, yeah, I got them too. I got it figured out." And so their probation was just life. That's it. In fact, Jill, will you read for us verse 46 and 47?

Jill 1:08:44

"But behold, I say unto you, that little children are redeemed from the foundation of the world through mine Only Begotten; Wherefore, they cannot sin, for power is not given unto Satan to tempt little children, until they begin to become accountable before me."

Tammy 1:08:59

Thank you. Though some of you with little naughty kids under the age of eight might disagree with that verse. But they can't be tempted. That is really interesting. And the age of accountability, you can put this cross reference: Doctrine and Covenants, Section 68, verse 25, is where the Lord reveals to Joseph Smith, it's eight years old. So he has a plan there. And I just think it's great. He has a plan for every single one of us, for whatever that "days of probation" looks like for us. He just wants us to come to him.

Jill 1:09:30

I think about that. And I highlighted that because that's this is new information for them. They had to have been like, "What?" Especially if they were part of a religion that, you know, if your baby died before they weren't baptized or whatever, and you just assumed the worst. Like it was would just be heart wrenching. And I can imagine like, the joy that came in reading that where they're like, "Wait, what?" You know, I'm sure somebody it didn't occur to because it never affected them, but one of them could have been like, "Wait, what?" Like, "Read that again." Like, "Say that again." That would just be such a joyous thing to hear, for some people.

Tammy 1:10:03

Yeah, Jill. And you know what's so cool is when we had Jenny Reeder and Sheree Clark, they shared with us their take on this discussion about Emma, who had buried so many children. And now she's learned that they have been saved. And so you're totally right. This is all new and how cool.

Kristin 1:10:19

And I just think, verse 42, I love that too, Tammy. And I, and then coupled with the hope for people who lose children so young, and how hard that would be, but just how merciful the Lord is and how loving and how perfect his plan.

Tammy 1:10:35

It definitely is. And his plan is foolproof, which is what I love about this. And now let's tie this all back into how we began, because we started talking about the gathering. And that's what we're doing right now, this doctrine of gathering. And everything he taught us right here is about gathering. It's about preparing for the Second Coming and helping each other get to where we need to be before he comes. And I just love the beauty in all of this, and especially when we talk about the word "Israel," which means "letting the Lord prevail" or "let God prevail." And I want to talk about this idea for a minute. About what it means to be willing to let the Lord prevail in our lives. So, Kristin, will you read this quote by President Nelson, please?

Kristin 1:11:14

“Thus the very name of Israel refers to a person who is willing to let God prevail in his or her life. That concept stirs my soul! The word willing is crucial to this interpretation of Israel. We all have our agency. We can choose to be of Israel, or not. We can choose to let God prevail in our lives, or not. We can choose to let God be the most powerful influence in our lives, or not.”

Tammy 1:11:40

So tell me, what are some ways that we can be more willing to let God prevail? What's worked for you?

Kristin 1:11:46

For me, I think, humility. Just to be constantly reminded, and remembering that the Lord is in charge. And to turn to the Lord in all things, and not try to do everything myself. Because that's the harder way.

Tammy 1:12:04

That's a great one. Goes back to being called his elect. The humility. Thank you, Kristin. That's awesome.

Jill 1:12:10

I think for me, sometimes you just got to keep on keepin' on. Sometimes that feels like the heavens are closed. And sometimes, I was thinking about this, what we just read about, this faith, hope, and charity. And I've always been like, "Yeah, you just gotta hope" but like, I'm sitting in the middle of a pandemic, in a city I don't know, and watch my kids just not connect. It's just hard. And, you know, prayers haven't been answered. And it's a struggle. The hope is just, it's not fluffy anymore. And it's not like this, "Oh, everyone should just hope" because it's hard. Sometimes it's really hard. And sometimes, it's just sticking with it, and still saying your prayers, you're still doing your thing. And, and you just hold on to the times when you know prayers have been answered so you know, it happens. And some days, things are just really hard. And sometimes it's a long span of time. And it's repeated prayers. And it's heartbreak. And it's all of those things. And sometimes, like letting God prevail is just sticking with it. And that's kind of how I'm feeling right now.

Tammy 1:13:10

Jill, I think that's a great answer. Sometimes letting God prevail just means sticking with it. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. I totally agree with both of you, with what you said. Well, thank you, ladies. I love you guys. This was so much fun. I have loved every bit of this. And the verses, and the definitions. And—

Jill 1:13:33

I'm like, "Oh, my gosh. I have too many definitions."

Tammy 1:13:35

No. For me? Are you kidding? You could never have too many definitions. I mean, it just made Section 29 come alive. That was so much fun to study. So just take a minute, gather your thoughts, and just come up with and think about "What was your takeaway?" Just look through your pages, things you marked, anything that you want to share that you learned.

Kristin 1:13:52

I think one of the things that I really loved was the mine elect. And being, really all you have to do to be mine elect, well all you have to be, it's not that simple, but to hear his voice and to harden not your hearts, which goes along with what I've been feeling to be humble and to listen to the Lord. Let him prevail.

Jill 1:14:12

I think my takeaway was more just understanding all the concepts of the different parts of the Millennium. Like I am such a seeker of wanting to know more. It was cool to understand the timing and the people and how all of that works. I wasn't raised learning all these things. So I think it's super exciting for me, and I'm grateful to you for having, like I've learned so much in listening to your podcast. And it's been so fun to be on and I've, it has really enhanced my ability to seek. And I love that there's other seekers like you who have this information and I can just ask, and who can share with me. And I can step up my game in understanding doctrine. I've always been super scared of being like a gospel doctrine teacher. I'm like I'm "Principles" all the way, like let's go with the good, fluffy stuff. I love that stuff. But I'm like, the more I teach, er, the more I learned now that I think at some point, I would actually feel confident of getting up in front to teach them. And mostly, I just sit a little more comfortable. And I see. So thank you so much for, for helping me do that.

Jill, thank you. Wow. It makes me a little emotional. Because two years ago, when I presented this idea, they asked me, "Well, tell me what success looks like. Like, what are you expecting to get out of this?" And honestly, my first answer was, "Success looks like women in their scriptures, teaching their families because they're learning stuff they didn't know before." You're right there, that success. That's what this is about. Just feeling confident to teach from the scriptures and teaching our families and our kids. I just love that.

Tammy 1:15:40

While sharing my takeaway, my takeaway was Jill, when you shared your personal story, and when you said that the doors of revelation had been shut. That was, just for me, like, that is a great example of a blessing that comes from keeping commandments. Because you automatically attribute the obvious, like Word of Wisdom, tithing. I mean, for sure, which are so important, but I had never considered that the doors of revelation were shut. And that was powerful. So thank you for sharing that. Thanks, ladies.

I love you. I love you so much!

Jill 1:16:08

That was fun!

Kristin 1:16:08

Love you too!

Tammy 1:16:08

So that was it. We're done. Okay, for those of you who are listening, we would love to hear what your big takeaway was from this episode. So if you haven't joined our discussion group on Facebook, or if you're not following us on Instagram, just do it. It's totally worth it. And it's a great place to ask questions from each other, and for myself, and I try to answer anything I can during the week. And then at the very end of the week, it's usually on a Sunday, we post a call for your big takeaway. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson, and let us know what you've learned. I read all of them. It's my favorite part of Sunday. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on And it's also not a bad idea to go there because you're going to find all of the links to the references that we used, as well as a complete transcript of this whole discussion. So go check that out. Okay, now, this is new. So I just need everyone who's listening to listen to this because I have a very important announcement and I'm super duper excited. Our Easter episode is going to be a study of—drumroll please—Lectures on Faith. I'm so excited. I can't even wait to study this book with you. So for those of you who have a copy of Lectures on Faith, get it out. If you don't have a copy, I'm certain your parents do, so call and ask them. Borrow it, dust it off. But we are going to dive into it and we're going to, when we do the episode, we're gonna tell you why Lectures on Faith. Maybe I could just tell you. Did you know that Lectures on Faith was actually part of the Doctrine and Covenants back in the day? So we're going to study it and you're going to love it. Because it's my favorite. I love it. So go get it.

Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf PLUS+ Original and it's brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me Tammy Uzelac Hall and today, our really fun and incredible study group participants were Jill Candland and Kristin Simmons. And you can find more information about these ladies at Our podcast is produced by Katie Lambert and me. It is recorded and mixed by Mix at Six Studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. See you next week. And please, please remember that you are God's favorite.