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14: “Be Not Afraid” (Matthew 14; Mark 6; John 5–6)

Fri Mar 24 12:14:05 EDT 2023
Episode 14

Have you ever been given a nickname? Sometimes, those names are silly or just for fun. But other times, they can show an important part of our personality. They can even represent who we are to different friends. The Savior had many, many names He was known by during His ministry—Lamb of God, Healer, and Bread of Life are just a few of the terms we hear Christ being called in Matthew 14, Mark 6, and John 5–6. This week, we find out how we can deepen our relationship with Christ by coming to know Him in a new way as we learn the loving names He was called by His disciples.



Links

Glue-Ins (free printables for your scriptures)

Segment 1

Scriptures:
John 5:5-9 (The man at the waters of Bethesda)

Translations:
Bethesda = beth and hesda or hesed - House of mercy (Hebrew)
Five = Grace (Hebrew)

Quotes:
Bloch's painting captures the spirit of the Savior…The magnificent painting by Carl Heinrich Bloch of 'Christ Healing the Sick at Bethesda' portrays Christ both as a healer and a comforter," Elder Bateman said. "Christ's healing power is more than physical. He has the power to make a person whole, to heal the soul as well as the body. The original painting, a wonderful gift, will be a constant reminder of our heritage and mission. (Merrill J. Bateman, BYU acquires Bloch altarpiece, The Church News, Click the link for Bloch’s painting “Christ Healing the Sick at Bethesda”)

Segment 2

Scriptures:
John 1:29 (John the Baptist calls Jesus the Lamb of God)
Matthew 11:11 (John the Baptist is revered)
Mark 6:17-28 (The death of John the Baptist)
Mark 6:31-33 (Christ goes to grieve alone)

Translations:
Just man = Righteous and holy man (Greek)

Segment 3

Scriptures:
Matthew 14:14-21, Mark 6:31-45, John 6:5-14 (Feeding the multitude)
Mark 6:34 (Jesus is the Good Shepherd)

Translations:
2 = Abundance or blessing
5 = Grace
12 = Priesthood power 
1000 = No one is left out

Words of the General Authorities:
Don’t worry about Christ running out of ability to help you. His grace is sufficient. That is the spiritual, eternal lesson of the feeding of the 5,000” (Jeffrey R. Holland, Trusting Jesus [2003], 73).

The feeding of 5,000 is a scriptural account that “can teach us symbolically of the power and abundance of the Savior’s atoning grace. … His grace is truly abundant and more than sufficient to meet all our needs. (J. Devn Cornish, “Learning How the Atonement Can Change You”, Ensign, Apr. 2002, 23).

He will multiply our efforts. What you have to offer is more than enough—even with your human frailties and weaknesses—if you rely on the grace of God. The truth is that each of us is one generation away from Deity—each is a child of God.18 And just as He has done with both prophets and ordinary men and women through the ages, so Heavenly Father intends to transform us. (Michelle D. Craig, “Divine Discontent”, October 2018 General Conference)

You have the Savior of the world on your side. If you seek His help and follow His directions, how can you fail? (Gary E. Stevenson, “Your Four Minutes”, April 2014 General Conference)

Segment 4

Scriptures:
Matthew 14:23, Mark 6:46, John 6:15 (Christ takes time in the mountain)

Segment 5

Scriptures:
Matthew 14:23-27 (Jesus walks on water)
Matthew 14:30-31 (Peter cries ‘Lord save me’)
Mark 6:48 (The people in the boat toiled)

Quotes:
But there is also something inside of me that channels my thinking to the realization that it is good to toil in rowing against the wind—that there’s something to be gained by exercising spiritual muscles that are stretched in facing trials and opposition. All right, we can accept that. But if he doesn’t come in the first watch he certainly ought to come in the second watch. However, it appears that we worship a “fourth-watch” God. And it is important for us to realize that we worship a fourth-watch God.

Sometimes I pray: “Lord, I know you’re a fourth-watch God and that I’m a first-watch person. Couldn’t we compromise and have you come at the end of the second watch or at the beginning of the third watch? Wouldn’t that be fair?” But the compromise rarely comes, and in my better moments I know it’s good that it doesn’t. He’s a fourth-watch God. (Michael S. Wilcox, “The Fourth Watch: How the Story of Christ Walking on the Water Applies Beautifully in Our Lives”)

Segment 6

Scriptures:
John 6:35, 48, 51 (The Bread of Life)
John 6:60 (It was a hard saying)
John 6:66-69 (To whom shall we go?)

Words of the Prophets:
One of the most heart-wrenching stories in scripture occurred when “many of [the Lord’s] disciples” found it hard to accept His teachings and doctrine, and they “went back, and walked no more with him.” In that moment, when others focused on what they could not accept, the Apostles chose to focus on what they did believe and know, and as a result, they remained with Christ. 

Sometimes we can learn, study, and know, and sometimes we have to believe, trust, and hope. (M. Russell Ballard, “To Whom Shall We Go?”, October 2016 General Conference)

Tammy 0:01

Last week, I was helping my daughter fill out a medical questionnaire. She was so confused by one part. Now it asked for her name, but the part she was confused by is it said 'other known names'. She didn't know what that meant. Other known names. So I explained to her our family example: in my family my father-in-law's name was Howard but everyone just called him Gus. Do you or someone you know go by another name other than the name given at birth: Boo and Buddy, you know who you are. Well, today Matthew chapter 14, Mark chapter 6, John chapter 5-6 will give us other known names that Jesus went by and continues to go by in each of our lives.

Tammy 0:42

Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into your scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and those are all of my given names, well except for the one I married into. There you go, no middle name. Thanks, Mom and Dad; they were worried that I'd get married soon and have to drop the middle name. That didn't happen. If you're new to our study group, we want to make sure that you know how to use this podcast so, follow the link in our description that will explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study, just like my friend Kathy Roberts in Santa Clara, Utah. Now another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends so it's always a little bit different and it's different today. We have an old-timer so that's not so different. We have Aliah Hall. Hi, Aliah.

Aliah 1:25

Hi, Tam.

Tammy 1:26

Welcome back. We love you. Okay, we are so excited to introduce our new friend, Susie Q Hernandez.

Tammy 1:32

Is that the cutest name!

Aliah 1:34

I love that. That IS the cutest name.

Susie Q 1:35

I'm so excited to be here.

Tammy 1:39

Susie is that your given name at birth?

Aliah 1:41

And no Q?

Susie Q 1:42

I put the Q in there because I don't have a middle name, either.

Tammy 1:45

Oh, I love it! You gave yourself your own middle name.

Susie Q 1:48

It is what it is. I added the Q.

Aliah 1:50

Funny thing is I have two first names AND a middle name.

Tammy 1:54

What? What's your name?

Aliah 1:55

My first first name is Aliah. My second first name is Jinora. My middle name is Nicole. And then Hall.

Tammy 2:07

Wow! You dropped your maiden name then? Too many names.

Aliah 2:11

No, Hall is my maiden name; I didn't take my husband's name,

Tammy 2:14

Oh, I didn't know that about you.

Aliah 2:15

Much to his chagrin, yeah.

Tammy 2:18

Well you get, you have Hall for so long.

Aliah 2:19

I know. I'm like, I already have four names. I can't add another one to it.

Tammy 2:24

No. Well, and when I married Jim I was going to hyphenate, cuz I, I wanted, listen, I was always at the end of the line for everything. So I thought maybe I'll just do a U, and so I wrote out my name "Tammy U Hall". (laughters)

Tammy 2:40

That's not going to work; I'll just write out Uzelac, so. I kept it, but. Okay, Suzie Q Hernandez; we're so excited to have you with us. Oh, you guys, you're in for a real treat with this guest. And I wish you could see her face. In fact, you have to go to our show notes. You can see her bio because she has probably the happiest face of anybody I've ever met in my life. Would you agree, Aliah?

Aliah 3:01

I agree wholeheartedly.

Tammy 3:02

Like she just radiates happiness.

Susie Q 3:05

I'm just so excited to be on the podcast.

Aliah 3:08

We're excited to have you.

Tammy 3:10

Oh, gosh, it's gonna be fun. Okay. Well, if you want to know more about my guests, make sure you go check out our show notes. You're gonna find those at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. So everyone grab your scriptures, your scripture journal, and something to mark your Scriptures with. And oh, I'm so excited for today's episode. Let's dig in.

Tammy 3:26

Here we go. Okay, so I have the most quintessential LDS painting of all time, I think it is, for me anyway. This painting I sent to my guests and I asked them to study it as they read John chapter 5. It is called "The Pool of Bethesda" by Carl Bloch. And I highly recommend going to our show notes so you can look it up and see the painting, or just Google it. And I just have to tell you a little story about this picture before we describe it. So when I was at BYU, I served in a Relief Society presidency, and this picture was on the Welfare manual. And I loved it so much that I looked everywhere for it because I wanted to buy it, frame it, and put it in my house. And it was nowhere to be found. I actually called the church office building and asked them about this painting. And I said.....I know, I was so diligent, like, "Where can I find this? How do I get my hands on it?" And they informed me, get this: it was not available. So this picture hung in the Bethesda Indre Mission in Copenhagen, Denmark, and it had been there since 1883. It is the Carl Bloch painting called "The Pool of Bethesda."

Tammy 3:27

The LDS church, they received special permission to go to Denmark, take a picture of the painting, and only put it on the welfare manuals. No permission to print it for any other reason. So my dear friend actually ended up taking her welfare manual and cutting the picture out and framing that for me. I have like a mini one in a big gigantic frame. And this is kind of interesting - the church actually finally obtained the rights to this painting in 2001. And the acquisition was made possible through the generosity of museum donors Jack and Mary Louise Wheatley. And now we have it. And it hangs in the BYU Museum of Art. That's where I've seen it, it might be somewhere else, you could correct me if I'm wrong. But I asked my guests to carefully study this painting in connection with reading John chapter 5. So let's everybody go there. Turn to John chapter 5, and we are going to have fun discussing this painting and this story. First of all, what were your thoughts when you saw this painting? Do either of you have a connection to it?

Aliah 5:32

I have also really loved this picture. Like, I think it just really speaks to the abundance of love that our Savior has for us. And like, to me it says, like, never lose hope. Because this, this, the man that He's going to help, who He's going to heal has been sitting at the waters of Bethesda for like, I can't remember, like 30 some years or something like that. And nobody would take him in the water. I, it's just like, don't lose hope. Whenever I see that, don't lose hope.

Susie Q 6:02

When you asked us to look at it, to study it, I just, along with the story, what I noticed was just the light and the darkness in the picture. And just how we know that Christ is always the light, but how the man is in, in, like in darkness. And I, like that spoke to me in the sense that sometimes we feel we're in darkness and there's no way out. But when we turn to Christ, He is the source of light. So yeah, there's hope for something better. And so in this painting, you know, knowing the story, like, like Aliah said that this man had been invalid for so many years, maybe he had given up hope. And so for me, what was also interesting when reading the scriptures is that Jesus went to this man. And it wasn't like the other stories where the people go to Jesus to be healed. But Jesus went to this man. And I found that very interesting.

Tammy 7:02

Tell me why.

Susie Q 7:03

Because I think so many times we hear that faith moves mountains. We have to do the action, we have to do something, we have to go to Christ, we have to be the believers. And yet this man, he was just laying there, you know. He couldn't get to the pool, he couldn't move from there. He had been there so long, and yet Jesus, in His mercy and His love went to this man knowing that he needed Him.

Tammy 7:29

Yeah

Aliah 7:29

So beautiful. I love that.

Tammy 7:32

I really appreciate how you just said that, Susie, because you're right. We, we are so often dogmatic in our approach to saying, 'Go to Jesus, knock, have faith.' And yet you just perfectly showed us that a lot of times He'll come to us. Because this man was incapable of walking to the Savior. In fact, both of you had brought up how many times or how many years he had been infirm. In John 5:5. Look at verse 5 and let's mark how many years was he infirm?

Aliah 8:03

38 years

Tammy 8:04

Yeah. In fact, I like the way verse 6 says, "When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that," - I like this - Jesus knew. Oh my gosh, that even adds more to depth to yours, Susie. Jesus knew "that he had been now a long time in that case." So He, they hadn't even conversed, and the Savior knows he's been that way for a long time. Thirty-eight years, that's a long time. And He comes to the man to help him. Susie, will you read verse 6, 7 for us? In fact, this is the only part of the conversation we have between the two of them.

Susie Q 8:38

Okay. Luke 5:6 "When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him; Wilt thou be made whole?

Susie Q 8:48

7 "The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me."

Tammy 8:59

So a little background about this story is, they are sitting here at what's called the Pool of Bethesda. And the name for that pool is found in verse 2, if you want to go ahead and mark that. In Hebrew - I love the meaning - so it's two words: BETH, and then HESDA. So Bieth, BETH, is 'house'. So it's house of something. And HESDA or heseda, it means 'house of mercy'. So they are sitting at the pools of this house of mercy. And then it says, "having five porches." I love the number five, that means 'grace' in Hebrew. So here they are hoping for some level of grace. And that grace is going to come in the form of being healed of whatever these people are struggling with. So all of these people will come down. And as soon as the water comes out - this, this natural pool or springs - the first person to touch the water is going to be completely healed. And so that's why this man says, "I have no man to take me to the pool" and everybody's beating me to it. Like there's basically, like you said Aliah, there is no hope for me. I don't even, I'm just here. I'm not sure how it's gonna play out, right? Oh, this hope is so awesome.

Aliah 10:11

Well I think about that, like that part of the story where he's been there for 38 years, so he's an invalid. Somebody brought him there, laid him there thinking like, 'Okay, when the water comes up, get in, you'll be good.' And they left him there. And for 38 years he's sitting there and like every time the water comes up, somebody gets in before he does. And like, because he can't even move. And I think how many times in our life do we watch other people getting blessings that we would really like to have? We're just like, when is it my turn? When is it my turn to get in the water? When is it my turn to be made whole? When is it my turn to have grace or abundance? When is it my turn? And I think like this just touches my heart, because I think so many of us, or all of us perhaps at some point think, like when is it my turn for the miracle?

Tammy 11:17

Wow.

Susie Q 11:18

I really like that because in the verse we read, in verse 7, "I have no man to put me in the pool", others step before me, beat me to the pool. It's like he's given up. And I think sometimes, Aliah what you said is so true, like, when is it my turn? Like, sometimes we give up, but that's when, that's when the Savior comes. And maybe it's just like a tender mercy or a little tap on the shoulder or some, a friend or something says something that reminds us, He is love. He is light. He is the Savior. And it kind of puts us back into the, Okay, I can wait a little longer for whatever, whatever it is we need Him.

Aliah 11:59

I think it's never too late.

Susie Q 12:01

Yes, yes.

Tammy 12:04

Oh, I love both of your remarks. In fact, look back at this picture. I thought this was so fascinating, because there are so many elements to it. And when I took the tour of the Carl Bloch Museum when all of his art was on display, because there's one element to this picture that you don't often notice. One of the things that was neat for me to learn was Carl Bloch always painted red somewhere in his paintings, as a symbol for the Atonement of Jesus Christ. And whoever was wearing red or had red on them needed the Savior's Atonement. So whenever I see his paintings, I always look for red. And you can kind of see it here in a couple of different places. He also always painted a little boy, and painted him in such a childlike manner with a hand over the head. And you can see the mom just gracefully touching this little boy with her. But in the corner between the Savior and the man laying down on the ground that we're talking about is a very unique piece of fruit. Can you see what it is?

Aliah 13:02

It's a watermelon?

Tammy 13:04

Yes. It's a watermelon. Okay, forever I was like, why would he paint a watermelon? That's the craziest thing, like, did someone just drop off a watermelon for this invalid to like, bang into and start eating? This is pretty cool. I learned this, that watermelons in art symbolizes life and love. You're gonna love this, Aliah: abundance.

Aliah 13:29

That's one of my favorite words.

Tammy 13:31

I know it is. So isn't that neat that there's a watermelon between the Savior and this man, signifying love, life, and abundance. And boy, he's about to get that. In fact, Aliah, will you read for us verses 8 & 9 and here's what the Savior says to this man.

Aliah 13:48

John 5:8,9 "Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.

Aliah 13:54

9 "And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath."

Tammy 14:02

Thank you. And so there he is. He's, he's filled with hope now in this house of mercy, Bethesda. And this beautiful ending to this story, I just, I love the way you both framed it - that He is the light and to never lose hope. And like, God will give us all.

Aliah 14:21

I was just thinking while you were saying that, like, we know that another name for Christ is like The Living Water. And so the man was like waiting to like get in the water and the water came to him.

Tammy 14:35

Perfect. That is such a perfect connection. Yes. Okay, well, let's read this quote. This is by Elder Merrill J. Bateman talking about this painting, and he's gonna give us some other names for this Savior regarding this experience. And so Susie, can you read this for us?

Susie Q 14:51

Yes. "Bloch's painting captures the spirit of the Savior. The magnificent painting by Carl Heinrich Bloch of Christ "Healing the Sick at Bethesda" portrays Christ both as a healer and a comforter." Elder Bateman said. "Christ's healing power is more than physical. He has the power to make a person whole, to heal the soul as well as the body. The original painting, a wonderful gift, will be a constant reminder of our heritage and mission."

Tammy 15:19

Thank You. So somewhere on your page there, write His other names: Healer and Comforter. We're going to add those to Him, Healer and Comforter. And I asked you to think of experience, do either one of you have a time where you have felt that the Savior was your healer or comforter? Maybe when you had lost hope?

Aliah 15:39

When I've mentioned this before on this podcast, I think I've probably mentioned it every time I'm on this podcast. Like when my son was in the hospital, he was in the hospital for nearly a year right after he was born. And I, like I think it was one of my lowest points in my life, but also one of the times that I felt most surrounded by, like my Savior's love. Like, it was so, like I just felt protected. Like when I think back at, at the, at the experience, I'm like, Oh, how did that not drive me mad? Like, how did I not completely lose my mind? And I just go, Because the Savior just covered me. Like He just enveloped me completely.

Tammy 16:32

Sounds like He came to you in your moment of need.

Aliah 16:35

Cuz I couldn't go to Him.

Tammy 16:37

Yeah. Wow. How about you Susie?

Susie Q 16:40

I was thinking about when, when I moved to New Mexico. I'm from California and grew up there, was raised there. And there was a time in my 30s where things just weren't working out. Well, I was, I was in a very low, low place. And I was depressed and nothing, nothing seemed to be working out. So I decided I was going to visit my brother in Las Cruces, New Mexico. And at the same time, I kind of knew that I had to make the move and just leave California. And the day before I left or came to New Mexico, I went to the Temple, to the LA Temple - my favorite temple. And while I was in there I was confused, I was conflicted, you know. I love California; my familiy's there, friends are there. But I really clearly felt the Lord, you know, telling me you need to leave. It's not good here for you. And I was, it was just a very dark, dark time for me.

Susie Q 17:41

And I remember leaving the Temple and, and just being assured that when I came to New Mexico that things would get better. Not immediately, but that things would change for me. And I remembered, I went with my parents and we were driving home.- I know the California LA traffic was horrible - and I was just looking out the windows and I just, I just started saying bye to everything that was there. And that as soon as I knew or I said goodbye, started saying goodbye, I felt that peace of Heavenly Father say, 'This is what you're supposed to do.' And even then, like I still, like I don't know. But I felt that the healing started. And I could, I'm not gonna say like I moved to Las Cruces and I lived happily ever after and that's, that's not true. But I found if I could take what you said, I found my smile again here and I've I felt peace. I found healing and I can't say like, you know, I lived happily ever after because I'm still in the process. But I really felt God's love and His healing in that decision that I made once, once I decided that that was what I was supposed to do.

Tammy 17:46

Hmmm. Thank you to both of you.

Aliah 17:52

That's powerful.

Tammy 17:53

It IS powerful. You know, as both of you were telling your stories all I kept thinking was the line, Sir, I have no man. Like no man could have come in and done for you what needed to be done. You both described what the Savior did for you, that He filled you with hope and with light. So thank you for sharing your stories. Ah, that was really good. Okay, so in the next segment, we are going to learn one of the Savior's other names and the very first person to ever use this name. We'll do that next.

Segment 2 19:05

.....

Tammy 19:39

Okay, turn with me really fast, now we're gonna go back and forth really quick, but turn with me really fast to John chapter 1. So just go a couple pages; here is another name for Christ. And in this verse, it tells us the first person to ever say it. Aliah, hit it. Will you read verse 29.

Aliah 19:55

John 1:29 "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

Tammy 20:04

Okay, what is His other name there?

Aliah 20:06

The Lamb of God

Tammy 20:07

Very good. Underline that. And the very first person to ever call Jesus the Lamb of God is who?

Tammy 20:13

His cousin

Tammy 20:14

John the Baptist. Very good, thank you. His cousin. Circle the name John there. We are going to talk about John. And so what I want us to do now is turn to Matthew 11:11. Let's read what the Savior had to say about John, or his cousin, as Aliah told us. Matthew 11:11. And Susie, will you please read that for us?

Susie Q 20:36

Yes. 11: 11 "Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Tammy 20:50

Thank you. Just right there sum up how you think the Savior feels about John.

Susie Q 20:55

He's one of the greatest.

Tammy 20:58

Yeah, He loves him so much, right?

Aliah 21:01

I always think of like the scriptures when it talks, so like Mary goes to see Elizabeth, her cousin. And like, both of the babies like leap in the women's stomach. Like they, like knew each other, like even in the womb. And they were like, Oh, this is so exciting.

Tammy 21:20

Oh, that's a great way to have it. Yes, a connection even before they were born. That's awesome, Aliah. So thinking about that, and how closely connected they are and how much they love each other is going to add some depth to how sad this story is that we're going to share with you. We're going to read the story in Mark 6:17-28. You can also read this in Matthew chapter 14, but I like the Mark version a little bit better. So this is the story and I don't know about you guys, but does anyone remember seeing this in "Ben-Hur"? Like it traumatized me as a child! Aliah, did you see it?

Aliah 21:56

Yes, I remember them like pulling the top off. And you're like, I guess like, from like, one of those like Spook Alley shows? Like for Halloween, like the head under the platter, plate thing?

Tammy 22:10

Yes. The head under the platter. Okay. I don't mean to make light of it. But it did. That was, I do remember that as a kid and it traumatized me. So here we have the story. Let's look at verse 17. Suzie read that for us please.

Susie Q 22:23

Mark 6:17 "For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Phillip's wife: for he had married her."

Tammy 22:35

Okay, so highlight Herodias, that is a girl, that is a woman. And she is married to Phillip, who is the brother of Herod. Okay, so there's all these weird connections and this weird relationship and everything like that. But the reality is, is Herodias was already married to somebody else. So she was married to Uncle Phillip. But then she's going to have an affair with Herod. And she's going to leave. So right there it says his brother Philip's wife. Yep. So he, Herod sleeps with his brother's wife. They have an affair, and John is not liking it. And so look at verse 18. Aliah, read that for us.

Aliah 23:17

18 "For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife."

Tammy 23:22

Okay. So Aliah, tell us the rest of the story. What's going on here?

Aliah 23:26

So this is like a big scandal.

Tammy 23:28

Yes.

Aliah 23:29

So Herodias has a daughter that like, she sends in to dance for Herod and his friends. And they're all so impressed with this young lady that Herod tells her like, 'Oh, like I, like, you're the bee's knees. And like, whatever you, whatever you ask me for, I will give to you up to half of the kingdom.' And so she's like, Oh, my gosh, what do I ask for? So she runs back to her mom, and she's like, Mom, Herod said I could have anything I want. What should I have? You know, what should I, what should I ask for? And she's like, let me tell you. You need to tell him that you want John the Baptist's head, because John is speaking ill against this marriage, or this new combination that we're making. And so we got to get rid of him. And so then the girl goes back in and is like, I want John the Baptist's head. And Herod is like so sad about this because he actually likes John the Baptist.

Tammy 24:35

Yeah. In fact, look at verse 20. We just have to do this really quick cuz there's a cool footnote for this. I'm so thankful you said that. He did like John the Baptist. It says, "For Herod feared John, knowing that he was a just man." Look at the footnote for 20a. It actually says, not just a just man, "and a holy man, and one who feared God and observed to worship him; and when he had heard him he did many things for him." Like he really knew who he was. Yeah. So Herod liked John the Baptist, but Herodias - and by the way, if you were royalty you didn't have to have an official divorce - I found that out. So it was very common for royalty to just go back and forth and have relationships and affairs with whoever you wanted without actually getting divorced. So these two people's partners were just out. Like, sorry, lady, you lost your crown, who was married to Herod. And sorry, brother Philip, I kept taking your wife.

Aliah 25:24

So she went and asked Mom and mom was like, We need John the Baptist's head. So she goes back and she's like, I want John's head on a platter. And Herod is like so sad about it, because he actually likes John. But he has to save face because he like made this promise in front of like all of his guests, like army captains and everything and he can't go back on it. And so immediately he sends an executioner to the prison where John is being kept, tops his head off, puts it on a platter, brings it out, and like hands it to this young lady. So sad.

Tammy 26:01

So sad

Aliah 26:03

Devastating.

Tammy 26:04

Let me ask you this, then. How do you think the Savior felt? Because verse 29 says, "And when the disciples heard of it, they came, took up his corpse and laid it in a tomb.

Tammy 26:15

30 "And the apostles gathered themselves together unto Jesus, and told him all things, both what they had done, and what they had taught." How do you, describe how the Savior might be feeling in this moment?

Susie Q 26:26

When you asked me that, I thought about how many times different people had died and He had brought them back to life and you could feel His love for those people. But here's like someone so close to Him. And not only was he, did he die, but how he died. I think that was, you could say traumatic for the Savior. That's his cousin. That's, that's who baptized Him. That's, that's His forerunner. Here he is, like, not only killed but so violently killed. And I think that must have crushed Him. I think that was very, just very traumatic to Him, I think.

Susie Q 26:26

Oh, I'm so thankful you used the word, it was 'traumatic.' I've never considered that the Savior knows trauma like this. Like, that adds a whole new level to His atonement.

Susie Q 27:06

Yes, because I think, I always think about that when speaking about the Atonement or thinking about the Atonement, I always think about when they say He felt everything we feel. And I think, How could He have felt everything He felt but as we read the stories, like we see where He feels sadness, where He feels joy, where He feels loneliness. And then this case, like as we were reading it, I'm like, that would have been so traumatic for Him to, that was His cousin. That was His family, it's His blood.

Aliah 27:51

And the part that I love about this, Tammy, like this kind of parallels the raising of Lazarus to me, which is one of my favorite stories. Because I think like, Christ knows the whole plan, like He knows what's going to happen. Like He knows that He's going to be crucified, He knows he's going to rise from the dead, He knows that like that's going to provide for all of us to rise from the dead and be together and like He knows the whole plan. And yet He still grieves, and yet He still weeps. And I think sometimes in our faith community, we're like so bent on always being joyful, and always being happy and always being content. And, and I think there's a place for grieving and weeping and, and all of those things, too. That there's, like, there's no shame in - Susie mentioned before, like a depressive state that she's had before - I've been there multiple times. Like, there's no shame to that. Like, the Savior grieved. He weeps. He had traumatic things happen to Him, you know. And He took the time that He needed to like, have those experiences.

Tammy 29:04

Well, and I'm so interested in Mark chapter 6, because after we just read what the Apostles did, then we have verses 31 and 32.

Tammy 29:14

31 "........he said unto them, "Come ye yourselves apart into a desert place, and rest a while: for there were many coming and going, and they had no leisure so much as to eat.

Tammy 29:23

32 "And they departed into a desert place by ship privately."

Tammy 29:26

So then I'm thinking, Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Like, let's just go have some time to be alone. That would be really great. But then look at verse 33. "And the people saw them departing, and many knew him, and ran afoot thither out of all cities, and out went them, and came together unto him." So in the next segment, we're going to find out: did He take the time to be alone, or, did He not? We'll study that next.

Segment 3 29:50

......

Tammy 30:05

Okay, oh, this is a fun question. Okay, you two. Have either one of you, okay, I can't even, I can't even ask this with a straight face because I know the answer for me. Have you guys ever eaten so much that you were so full? (laughter)

Susie Q 30:20

Never. No.

Tammy 30:22

Right? Before we met, we were talking about our favorite foods to eat.

Aliah 30:29

Like you literally, I'm like, I've eaten so much that my stomach hurts and like I can't sleep. And I'm like so upset with myself because I'm like, Why do you keep doing this? Like, nooooo, this is not, like, it's not going to end well for you. Why do you do this?

Tammy 30:49

What have you done? Again?

Susie Q 30:54

It reminds me of every Thanksgiving, every Christmas. I'm like, I'm not going to eat, um, just a little bit of everything. And yeah, you just eat til it hurts. Yeah, definitely.

Tammy 31:04

I like that Susie said 'every Thanksgiving or every Christmas'. In my mind I'm like, Or a Saturday.

Aliah 31:09

Or yesterday. I went to Noodles and Company. I got like the big macaroni and cheese. And I ate like half of it. And I was full.

Tammy 31:20

No you weren't.

Aliah 31:21

I was. I was so full and I like, Put it down. And then I was like, Oh, that was so good. I'm just gonna take a few more bites. And then I just few more bites, until it was like all done. And then I'm like laying there. Like, I'm gonna be able to fall asleep.

Tammy 31:39

There's not a Zantac in the world for this. You're like pouring Tums into your hands. Agh.......

Aliah 31:45

I'm like, I'm a grown-up.

Tammy 31:47

I love it. I love it. Okay, then tell me, use words or adjectives to describe what 'full' feels like for you. I want everyone listening to be in this frame of mind. Like, what does full feel like when you think about the last time you were so full? What are some adjectives?

Susie Q 32:02

Painful

Tammy 32:04

Yes. Bloated. My belly pokes out sometimes. Yeah.

Aliah 32:11

Like you're kind of like sleepy and like in a daze. Like, just like, you don't want to move.

Tammy 32:18

Yeah, a nap would be good.

Aliah 32:20

There's some regret there a little bit.

Tammy 32:24

What did you say Susie?

Susie Q 32:26

Uncomfortable.

Tammy 32:26

Uncomfortable, okay, perfect. I want us to just have this idea, and I want everyone listening to recall a time when you were full. Because I think the idea of being full is a very important aspect to the story found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. So each one of us are going to take one of these references, because it's the same story but the story has cute little things that make it different. And I think it's really neat. So I'm going to be in Matthew 14:14-21. Aliah, will you please be in Mark 6:31-45. And Suzy, will you please be in John 6:5-14. Okay. Okay. This is a great story, very familiar to many of us. So who they go to be alone. And then Jesus hears these people. Everyone's following him.

Tammy 33:18

In fact, I'm in Matthew chapter 14, and look what it says. So John the Baptist has just been killed, in Matthew chapter 14. And they've just buried John the Baptist, Jesus has been told, and then verse 13 says,

Tammy 33:18

Matt 14:13 "When Jesus heard of it, he departed thence by ship into a desert place apart: and when the people had heard thereof, they followed him on foot out of the cities.

Tammy 33:38

14 "And Jesus went forth, and saw a great multitude, and was moved with compassion toward them, and he healed their sick.

Tammy 33:45

15 "And when it was evening, his disciples came to him, saying, This is a desert place, and the time is now past; send the multitude away, that they may go into the villages, and buy themselves victuals."

Tammy 33:57

or buy themselves food, like we don't got time for this. Then 'there's a lot of people so let them go feed, then they can, we can all come back and we'll have a great discussion.' But the Savior does this awesome, incredible miracle. So in verse 16, Jesus says unto them, "They need not depart; give ye them to eat." And then verse 17, for me, says, "They say unto him, we have here but five loaves and two fishes." And the Savior says bring them to me. Let's highlight 'five loaves and two fishes'. In this story, numbers are so important. So we've already learned the number 5 means 'grace'. The number 2 in Hebrew means 'to divide' and it also means 'abundance', and 'a blessing'. There's your word, abundance and a blessing. Okay, so the Savior says bring them to me. And then He commands the multitude to sit down on the grass, and He takes the five loaves and the two fishes; He looks up to heaven. He blesses it, He breaks it, He gives the loaves to the disciples, and the disciples give to the multitude.

Tammy 33:57

And for me in chapter 14 verse 20, it says, "And they did all eat and were filled:" Now, it doesn't say they were satisfied. It doesn't say they were like no longer hungry. I mean, it says they were filled. That's a lot of bread and a lot of fishes. Now what's different in your stories that we need to know?

Susie Q 35:21

In John 6:9, it's specific what kind of bread it is. So 6:9 says, "There is a lad here, which hath five barley loaves, and two small fishes". And so then the question too, is "but what are they among so many?" So like, it's not going to be enough.

Tammy 35:41

Wait. What was that verse you just read for us?

Susie Q 35:44

Chapter 6 of John, verse 9.

Tammy 35:47

Oh, my gosh, hold on. What did you just say to us?

Tammy 35:50

Who brought the bread?

Aliah 35:52

A little boy,

Susie Q 35:53

lad.

Tammy 35:53

A little lad. Now that changes the story, that a little boy had something to do, he brings the bread. I think of the cute little 12 and 14-year olds that bring the bread on Sunday. Or they don't; some, one time they forgot in my church. So they just went ahead and gave the talks and somebody had to run home and get bread, we had sacrament at the end. I like that; I had never noticed like a little lad brings the bread. Barley. That's neat. The kind of bread is important. . Okay, anything else that stood out to you about how they sat down or anything when they, when they were given their food?

Aliah 36:29

In Mark 6:40, or 39 it says "......he commanded them to make all sit down by companies up on the green grass.

Aliah 36:41

40 "And they sat down by ranks, by hundreds, and by fifties."

Tammy 36:46

Now that's interesting. I wonder why he put that in there.

Aliah 36:48

I know, that seems really interesting.

Tammy 36:51

Yeah, it does. Well, the number 12 is significant. Because right here, in my story, it says in verse 20, "They did all eat, and were filled", but then it says, "and they took up the fragments that remained 12 baskets full." And the number 12 in Hebrew is 'riesthood power', or 'divine government'. So it's interesting that he mentions how they were sat, how they were organized, to be fed, and that when they were all fed, there were 12 baskets still filled with loaves and fishes. For anybody else who came along, there would be food for them. And then in my verse in verse 21, it says how many were there. 21 "....they that had eaten were about five thousand men, besides women and children." So some people believe that he may have fed up to 10,000 people! Huge multitude.

Susie Q 37:41

Yeah, in verse 11, I really liked that - I don't think it was in the other two books. - but in John 6:11 it says, Jesus, "And Jesus took the loaves; and when He had given thanks, he distributed to the disciples."

Tammy 38:00

Neat

Susie Q 38:01

I like that, that He gave thanks.

Tammy 38:05

I gotta write that down, too. Why did that stand out to you?

Susie Q 38:09

I was just thinking, like, it's Jesus! Why does HE have to give thanks? (laughter)

Tammy 38:17

That's great!

Susie Q 38:19

It just shows again, like His humility of, He's here on a mission from His Father, His Father sent Him and He's giving Him thanks for the bread that was provided for them.

Tammy 38:31

Yeah. And so much that they could be filled.

Aliah 38:35

I think because Mark is very like, particular about how he says things. And, and in that, in the verse in Mark 6:41, he does say that, like, He looks up to heaven, and He blesses and breaks the loaves, and then He gives them to His disciples to set before them. And so the Savior doesn't give the bread and the fish to the multitude. He blesses and He breaks it and He prepares it, and then He gives it to the disciples who then disseminate it too. I think that's like symbolic of how like the church works. Like there's a, there's an organization. Even when it was saying, like, O, and he had them sit down by hundreds, and by fifties, according to rank. I don't know what that means, but like there's order to the Gospel, there's order to the way things are done.

Tammy 39:25

And this idea that we are all fed, and we can be filled. Okay, well, here's another cool number, then. The number is thousand. And the number 1000 in Greek means 'no one is left out or forgotten'. Total inclusivity. So, let's put all these numbers together. He fed 5000 men; 5 is Grace, 1000 - no one's left out. The number 2, the two fishes; we have 5 loaves of grace again; 2 fishes - abundance and blessing. And so, tell me what you think it means now. Because Aliah, I'm seeing the wheels turn. Like,

Aliah 40:04

I think that that is so important that like this idea that no one gets left out, because I don't think that's how our world works right now. But that that is important to the Saviour, that like no one gets left out when He says all of His children, He means all of His children. When He says everybody, He means everybody. And I don't think we as humans in our fallen state when we say like, all men are created equal or like, except for those people. Like all people, whatever, like except for those ones. But when the Savior says 'all' He means all. Everyone.

Tammy 40:55

Yeah. Well, and those 12 baskets that are just sitting there, including the people who haven't even come yet. Like it's still there. Everyone, and the thing they'll get to partake of is the five, His grace. This is more a lesson on His grace for us than it is on anything, and that we can be filled with His grace. Here's two really great quotes: one's from Elder Holland and one's from Elder Devon Cornish about the idea of this grace. I'd like for us to read these. Oh, Susie, can you please read the first quote by Elder Holland.

Susie Q 41:27

Yes. "Don't worry about Christ running out of ability to help you. His grace is sufficient. That is the spiritual eternal lesson of the Feeding of the 5,000."

Tammy 41:38

And Aliah, will you read this by Elder Jay Devon Cornish of the Quorum of the 70.

Aliah 41:41

"The Feeding of the 5,000 is a scriptural account that can be "The Feeding of the 5,000 is a scriptural account that can teach us symbolically of the power and abundance of the Savior's atoning grace. His grace is truly abundant, and more than sufficient to meet all of our needs."

Tammy 42:02

Thank you. That's our lesson. Ohhhh. It just for me, I've always known this story. But when I connected it to the meaning of numbers and words, it's, like you said, we love words, Aliah. It adds to the depth of the story. Go ahead Susie.

Susie Q 42:18

We could take, I wanted to say something. When we read this, and as we were reading it, I have a quote. I had a quote here in my scriptures that I don't know where it came from, but it fits perfectly here, I think. It says, "You and I can give what we have to Christ and He will multiply our efforts. What you have to offer is more than enough, even with your human frailties and weaknesses if you rely on the grace of God." And that was a quote from Michelle Craig from General Conference. But I think it's so perfect because it is His grace that makes us - I don't want to say complete because we're not complete yet - but He turns our weaknesses and our frailties into strengths and triumphs. So I love that like, He is enough, He is sufficient. And with Him, we don't need more than that. We don't need anything more than that, then just to trust in Him and, and know that, that He is enough. If I could do one more, one more quote.

Susie Q 43:17

Yeah, please.

Susie Q 43:19

Elder Stephenson. Elder Gary Stevenson, "You have the Savior of the world on your side. How can you fail? He is enough."

Tammy 43:28

Wow. Oh, those are, well, and then Susie, as you were talking, I thought of your addition to our story, the little lad. Because I'm sure as he offered these five loaves and two fishes, they were like, 'That's not enough for the multitude. That'll never be enough. You're crazy. Go away, go go home kid.' You know, and I just think how many times have we just come to the Savior and said, This is all I have. And the Savior's like, That's enough. Great, I'll make it enough. I'll make it work.

Aliah 43:53

I think it's even more interesting that this little young boy, like it's, I think it's a total miracle that Christ fed 5,000 with five loaves of bread and two fish. But I think it's almost an equal miracle that a child was like, 'I have this food, and I could probably eat it myself. But I'm gonna share.' Because I have a seven-year old and he doesn't like to share. Like, he's not about this sharing. It's about like, a little lad was like, Oh, like I have, like, Oh, I have so, like, you could have what I have. And didn't like keep it to himself.

Tammy 44:37

For sure.

Aliah 44:38

He had like the faith and the knowledge that like, Oh, like Christ can make even my little bit be enough, and that I'm willing to give it. And like how are we like that? Yeah, love. It's like, I don't have a lot. I've got like five loaves and two fishes, but like, I will give that to you and I know you'll make it enough. Like I don't have to, I don't have to make it more. I don't have to do more, I don't have to be more, I don't have to, like constantly be, you know, running. I think sometimes we kind of focus on like the works aspect of the gospel, and not the grace aspects of the gospel. And I love this as it's like, this is what I have and You are welcome, Savior, to it. And I know that You will make it enough, or whatever plans You have for it.

Tammy 45:28

The childlike faith. Here you go, sir. Take my bread. Oh, gosh. Excellent, both of you. That was really great discussion. I really love what both of you had to say about this incredible story that we've often read so many times. So thank you for everything that you shared. That was so good. Okay, but we have to have another name. We haven't done His other name yet. So let's go to Mark 6:34, and we're going to mark it. In this story that we just read, the Savior talks about how these people need to be fed, and they need to be helped. And in verse 34 it says the Savior "was moved with compassion". But Aliah you had Mark, so read verse 34 for us.

Aliah 46:04

34 "And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things."

Tammy 46:17

Here we have this other name, and He is the Shepherd. And so in the next segment, we're going to find out about a very gracious moment for the Shepherd and by extension to us, a moment from the Shepherd.

Segment 4 46:29

.....

Tammy 46:44

So both of you were therapists, and I think this, the timing of this. Again, Heavenly Father's in charge knowing who my guests should be, because I don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to this topic, but both of you do. So let's turn to John chap - we have three references, actually. John 6:15. Susie, will you read that verse for us? Aliah, will you please read Mark 6:46. And I will read Matthew 14:23. After the Savior feeds the 5000, and they are filled, then this is what happens. So go ahead, we'll each read our verses. We'll start with Suzy.

Susie Q 47:20

John 6:15. "When Jesus therefore perceived that they will come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone."

Tammy 47:33

Aliah

Aliah 47:34

This is Mark 6:46 "And when he had sent them away, he departed into a mountain to pray."

Tammy 47:42

And mine in Matthew 14:23 says, "And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone." Okay, you two, I want you to talk to me about this idea, or perspective and thoughts about the Savior now finally taking time to be alone.

Aliah 48:02

So both of my parents are deceased. My father died when I was fairly young, I was 21. He passed before I left on my mission and think he passed away, we buried him, and then I left on my mission almost immediately. I was gone 18 months, came home, lost my mind, moved to New York, stayed there for a year and then came home again. And I think, I mean, my mission was wonderful and I think that was what I was supposed to be doing. But I think part of what I was doing with going on my mission, as well as moving to York was trying to avoid having to grieve, you know, avoid having to feel the fullness of the sadness and to really come to terms with that. So then I went to, I started school at BYU and had some severe panic attacks. And I thought like I was having a heart attack, and I went to the health center, and they're like there's nothing wrong with your heart. This is in your head, you're having panic attacks. And that's when I, when I first started going to therapy and, and I really needed to be able to grieve, to figure out how to both hold on and let go of my grief. Like, I couldn't run from it anymore; I needed to kind of deal with it.

Aliah 49:28

But I also had to like, move forward in my life because I was stunted. Like, I couldn't move. I was stuck in that place. And so it was, I think, grief. Grief is such a, I think it's such a purifying and holy emotion to love someone and then to lose them. And I think of our Savior, and why He came here and why He suffered in Gethsemane and why He hung on the cross was so that, that grief of losing someone needn't be permanent.

Tammy 50:10

Ummm. How can it not be permanent?

Aliah 50:14

Because we will all have eternal life because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. And through the covenants that we make, we will also have exultation and live as God lives, with our families forever. And that is so beautiful that like, you can lose something, you can lose it and grieve, and you can retain it, too.

Tammy 50:43

How did you get unstuck, because you said you were stuck?

Aliah 50:48

Well, I had to stop running, first. Stop running from it, I had to be like, I had to really deal with it. You know, like, not, not just the sadness, but like, the joy of being with my father and like, not just like, Oh, I'm sad that I lost him. But like, I loved him in this way. And we have these memories together. And when I have children, I want to talk to them about their, their Papa in this way. And like, how am I going to, like, carry him with me, and let him go? That's kind of this, almost this paradox of like, if I can figure out how to hold it, then I can also figure out how to let it go.

Tammy 51:36

Powerful

Susie Q 51:38

I have a little bit of a different perspective, I've never lost anyone close to me. But I'm a school, elementary school counselor, and I work with kids who have lost a loved one or a parent. And I also work with the kids who just need a little timeout sometimes. And so I was thinking about when the Savior had, you know, He departed and went up to the mountain to be by Himself. I was thinking about how sometimes kids in school, they just need that little time to be away from everyone to regroup, to feel their feelings, to feel the anger, to feel the sadness, to feel the frustration. And, and not, not have to worry about who's watching? Am I going to get in trouble and are they going to make fun of me? but just be alone. So they come to my office, and there's a quiet space there. And, and sometimes they just sit there, they don't want to talk to me. And they'll just sit there quietly. And I always tell them, you can take as much time as you want. But you do have to go back to class. And so they'll sit there and they'll think and sometimes they'll cry and sometimes they'll want to talk to me.

Susie Q 52:46

But I think solitude sometimes is just so needed just to, to feel what you're feeling and not have to worry about taking care of someone or impressing someone or having to feed someone. It's just your time to be by yourself and in our case to commune with the Lord and just say sometimes, like, I can't do this, I can't move forward, or another sense to give thanks or express something that we're feeling at that time. So I think, you know, when I, when I read that part, I had never paid attention to that part, obviously. But he said He went up to the mountain Himself alone. I love that. I really love that because the Savior didn't have to worry about feeding people. He didn't have to worry about His disciples. It was just Him - His time to regroup, to think about what had happened. And I don't know what else He did up there. But just to be alone. And I think that's sometimes something we need to sometimes to be able to let go of things that are burdening us.

Tammy 53:57

Yeah. What do you think about the word mountain? Is there anything significant to you about the fact that He went up to a mountain to be alone and to pray?

Aliah 54:05

Well, we know that mountains are a symbol of the temple. And so I was thinking like, yes, like even in mine, it says that He departed into the mountain to pray, and who is He praying to? He's praying to His Heavenly Father. And so He went to the temple to be with His Father. So this really sad moment in His life, this grief that He, He went to be high - this is the Gospel according to Aliah - like He went to a place of comfort for Him. Like he went to the temple to be with His Father, and that was a comforting place to be, at least for with me. Like when I was sad or hurt or felt misunderstood or whatever, like my father was a place of comfort for me. And I can still, even though he has been deceased now for 25 years, I still go to the temple to be with my father, both of them.

Tammy 55:08

Do you think he was filled?

Aliah 55:11

I always am.

Tammy 55:13

Oh, I like that. You always are when you go to the mountain. What about you, Susie?

Susie Q 55:17

I was thinking about how peaceful and quiet it is up in the mountains. And just, like I'm picturing right now going up to a mountain and just nature's there, the trees are there, it might be a little windy, and it's just quiet. And I think that's, that's, that's a place I love to be in, just quiet. And even my thoughts are quiet, and want to talk with the Lord. And I love, I love being in the temple. I think about in the Celestial room how it's just quiet. And you're there with what just happened before, and then like conversing with the Lord: these are the things I want to change, or, I don't know what people pray for, but that's what I pray for. But what I want to change in my life, people I want to mend relationships with them, and how I can serve better. And I think that, that to me, just like going up into a mountain where it's quiet, and where you're in nature and you're, you're with God. I think that is so refreshing and so strengthening, getting ready for whatever comes next.

Tammy 55:18

Yes, oh I like that. 'Getting ready for whatever comes next.' Grieving, being alone, taking time, and getting ready for what's going to come next. Ah, it's awesome. For those of you who are listening right now, if anyone had the idea pop into your head, you're like, I should go to the temple. Do it. That's the spirit saying, You make an appointment.

Aliah 56:53

The Temple is always a good idea.

Tammy 56:55

Get to that temple. That's our challenge to you right now. Get to the temple, go up into the mountain to be alone. Go by yourself and just be alone for whatever it is. I think everybody's grieving. I think everybody has grief, right? Whether you've lost a loved one, or I think grief looks like so many different things in life. So thank you, both of you. You did that justice. That was a great discussion on the Savior taking time to be alone. So He did and then in my version of Matthew 14:23, it says, "......and when the evening was come, he was there alone." So He went up at nighttime. And I want you to kind of think about this because He's there at night, and He's there for quite a while until three o'clock in the morning, something significant is going to happen. And we'll talk about that in the next segment.

Segment 5 57:41

.....

Tammy 57:56

Okay, everyone, go with me now to Matthew 14:24. K. Oh, that's a good story. Verse 24. So the Savior is up in the mountain, He's there alone. And now we have a ship. And something's going on. So Susie, read for us Matthew 14:24.

Susie Q 58:11

"But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary."

Tammy 58:19

Underline "tossed with the waves for the wind was contrary". We have a pretty bad storm here. And verse 25 tells us what time this is taking place. Aliah, will you read for us verse 25.

Aliah 58:28

"And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea."

Tammy 58:34

K, highlight "fourth watch". This would be between the hours of 3am and 6am. So there are four watches. And here's the hours of them. The first watch is from 6pm to 9pm. The second watch is from 9pm to midnight, the third watch is midnight to 3am. And then the fourth watch is 3am back to 6am. Okay, so they have these watches through the night. So at 3, between 3-6 in the morning, the Savior is walking on the sea, in the middle of a storm, a very heavy storm. And the disciples see him, in verse 26. And they think that it's a spirit. They're, it says that they're troubled, like they're nervous, they're scared, and it even says they cry out with fear. K. But straightway in verse 27, Susie read that for us.

Susie Q 59:25

"But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid."

Tammy 59:32

So Susie, I want you to say it how you think the Savior would say it now without reading it.

Susie Q 59:34

He would just say, "Be of good cheer. Like, it is, it's me, it's me. Like, you shouldn't be afraid."

Tammy 59:47

That is exactly how I imagined Him saying it. Okay, so this is this really awesome story that we have here because then Peter answers in verse 28. And what is he asked to do, you guys?

Aliah 59:58

He wants to come out to the Lord.

Tammy 1:00:00

Yes, he wants to walk on that water, right? And so he says, Hey, can I can, I do this? Right? I love the audacity. Like hubris is awesome. And so what does the Savior say to him, help me retell this story.

Susie Q 1:00:14

Come on.

Tammy 1:00:16

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, like do it, let's do this! And so Peter does it. He gets out and he starts to walk on water. In verse 29 ".........Peter was come down out of the ship, and he walked on water to go to Jesus." But then verse 30, what does he start to notice?

Aliah 1:00:34

When he saw the wind, boisterous, he was afraid and began to sink, and he cried, saying, Lord, save me.

Tammy 1:00:41

Yeah, "Lord, save me." Now look at verse 31.

Aliah 1:00:47

When did the Lord save him?

Aliah 1:00:50

Immediately

Tammy 1:00:52

Immediately. Highlight that - 'immediately.' So He stretches forth His hand, He catches him. I mean, this is just the great story of Peter walking on water. And then the Savior says, 31 "O, thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Tammy 1:01:08

32 "And when they were come into the ship," what does it say now? What happened to the wind?

Susie Q 1:01:12

It ceased.

Tammy 1:01:13

There's a great word that describes, I like the story of this in Mark. Let's turn to Mark 6:48, cuz there's a word here that describes these men in the ship and of the storm. So that's Mark 6:48, is where the story is retold. And the storm is so bad that verse 48 tells us something. Aliah, will you read verse 48.

Aliah 1:01:40

Yes. Mark 6:48 "And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night he cometh unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed them by."

Tammy 1:01:56

How many of us can relate to toiling in our storms. In fact, the word down below says 'struggling at their oars'. Like how many of us are just toiling in our storm and doing the best we can and putting forth all this effort for like, we're not getting anywhere, right?

Aliah 1:02:12

I think, and this is just coming to my mind, and maybe this is just revealing my own weaknsses to just everybody, but like, I don't even want the storm.

Tammy 1:02:24

Oh, well sure.

Aliah 1:02:27

I'm like, why did He even let there be a storm? Why are we on this boat? Why didn't we just stay on land where we were safe to begin with? Why did we come on this boat, and now there's a storm. And like, like I go to like catastrophic, like, real quick. I mean, I'm like, like, I think it's so bold of Peter. Like, Oh, can I come out and walk with you? And like I think sometimes we get, we get on Peter. We're like, Oh, Peter, you of little faith. But I'm like, got out the boat. Cuz I'm like, Oh, no.

Tammy 1:03:05

Right? There's so many aspects to this story. Because if I was in the ship and the storm was there, I'd be like, Well, where's Jesus? And He's, we know He can calm the storm. Here we are again.

Aliah 1:03:20

When we need Him he's either asleep or in the mountains!

Tammy 1:03:23

Right! Exactly. Like, and then they're toiling. And I, knowing me, I'm complaining the whole time. Like, why are we even here? Let's just dock this thing.

Aliah 1:03:33

This is why we're friends. Cuz we're friends, Tam.

Tammy 1:03:37

Why are we? I'm tired.

Aliah 1:03:41

I just want to be, let's go to Applebee's. (laughter)

Tammy 1:03:44

I just want to be at Applebee's. Oh, my gosh. That is good. That is good. Exactly. Like this, why are we even here? Dock it, get out. Let's go to sleep, we'll come back, we'll find Jesus, right? And they're just toiling in this in the storm. And then yeah. Then Peter, Let me let me walk with You. And what were the other Apostles thinking? Like, it's crazy. Just end the storm. Let's foll this back, right?

Susie Q 1:04:10

They're probably thinking, Peter, that's Peter. Peter's always trying to do something - I'm not saying to impress - but like something different. Like he's so impulsive.

Tammy 1:04:21

Yeah. Let me try, I can do that. Yeah I really like it. You know, we, we've been talking about these other names that the Savior has and this story, I think this story's pretty significant when we have this other name because we have that they called Him Lord. And that Peter said "Lord, save me." But here's another name I've never considered before until I read this by Michael Wilcox. And he takes this story about toiling and the fourth watch. And I just want us to read this quote because I thought this was really powerful. Susie, can you read this quote for us by Michael Wilcox?

Susie Q 1:04:56

Yes. "But there is also something inside of me that channels my thinking to the realization that it is good to toil and rolling against the wind, that there's something to be gained by exercising spiritual muscles that are stretched and facing trials and opposition. All right, we can accept that. But if He doesn't come in the first watch, He certainly ought to come into second watch. However, it appears that we worship a Fourth Watch God. And it is important for us to realize that we worship a Fourth Watch God. Sometimes I pray, Lord, I know you're a Fourth Watch God and that I'm a first watch person. Couldn't we compromise and have You come at the end of the second watch or at the beginning of the third watch? Wouldn't that be fair? But the compromise rarely comes, and in my better moments I know it's good that it doesn't. He's a Fourth Watch God.

Tammy 1:05:50

Tell me about that name for Him now, and in your own life.

Susie Q 1:05:54

I love Michael Wilcox. I love all his stories, his talks and this one especially because I feel like my whole life is a fourth watch.

Tammy 1:06:06

Tell me about that. Give me an example.

Susie Q 1:06:09

Like, the biggest example and, and the reason I reached out to you, Tammy in the first place was because of your, in your podcast, you, you have, you speak a lot of when you were single. And for me, I'm, I'm 52 and I'm single. This is past the fourth watch.

Tammy 1:06:28

Oh, can I get an amen? Oh, yeah.

Susie Q 1:06:32

And I love, I had heard this talk on audio, I had heard it. And I love when he's talking about it because, because I feel that way like, can't we compromise? Can't we like, you come this way, I come this way and we meet somewhere in the middle? And that has been so true for me. Because we all know if we grew up in a church, you're in Young Women's, you make your list of what you want your future husband to be and what your life's gonna be like,.aAd I'm going to serve a mission, I'm going to come back go to school, start school, I'm gonna get find a man and get married. Have 10 kids, maybe not 10, five kids and live Happily ever after, you know. Have the Temple marriage. And when you're in You Womens, like you know that's going to happen, it's going to happen. And for me, went on a mission, started school, and nothing, nothing nothing. Finished school. No, I didn't finish school, that's another fourth watch story.

Susie Q 1:07:31

And then, like it wasn't happening and my 20s went by and nothing. All my friends my age started getting married, having kids. It just wasn't happening for me and I think that's part of what led to like that depression. Like, what's wrong with me? There has to be something wrong. Kind of like what Aliah said, Why is it happening for everyone, when is it my turn? Then the 30s passed by and nothing, like, Not, I mean, not even a date. Then that's when you start to worry like, okay, there's something wrong with me. Heavenly Father, just tell me how do, how do I do this? This is what I've wanted my whole life. Why isn't this happening to me? And so definitely a fourth watch. And I think not till my late 40s, and now's where I've come to peace with it. My patriarchal blessing it says that I will be married and have children. And I read that a lot. And I think, that isn't true, it's not true for me. But then I also think about how often the leaders tell us the Lord loves us. And we ask ourselves, but does He love ME? Does He know me?And so for me, it's been, I feel like my whole life has been the fourth watch and waiting for the God of the fourth watch.

Susie Q 1:09:00

But I've learned, I've learned to toil, I've learned to struggle. I've learned to ,you have to keep going. You have to keep going because like Elder Holland said the blessings come. They may come soon they might come later, but they're there because He is a God of, who keeps His promises. And so for me reading this quote and hearing Brother Wilcox, this talk was so moving to me and I love it. I hear it often because it gives me hope, it gives me strength. It's like don't quit now. I quit at one point. I, I quit church at one point and like, I couldn't do it. Like I'm doing everything right. Why aren't things happening? But then it came back to, I have to wait. I have to wait on the Lord; He doesn't wait on me, I wait on Him. And that's when I came to peace with it and I'm good. I'm enjoying my life, I'm doing the best that I can. I'm went 2014, I quit my job, went back to finally went back to school, to finish school, and I love my job. I know I'm not married, but I've have 400 and some kids that I take care of every day. That they come to me and I'm able to, to use what I know, to use even the Savior's love to let them know that they are loved, that they are safe. So it's been, it's been a trial. I'm still in the trial. But I know that God is a God who keeps His promises. And that's what keeps me going.

Tammy 1:09:46

Wow.

Susie Q 1:09:56

Thank you for sharing that, Susie. That's beautiful.

Tammy 1:10:43

It was very beautiful. Thank you for taking that time to just share pure testimony. You know, as you were speaking, I looked back at the story in Matthew chapter 14, because after this whole experience of toiling and Peter getting back in the ship, and the Savior talking to him. Then I looked at verse 33, and I was like, Oh my gosh, that is Susie. Verse 33 says, "Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying; Of a truth thou art the Son of God." And you just did that for us. Like you bore witness that He is of a truth, the Savior. Susia, thank you. I felt that in my heart. That was it that was beautiful. Wow.

Susie Q 1:11:28

Thank you.

Tammy 1:11:30

So we just learned, He's a fourth watch God, and I love that new name for Him. That's another name that I'm going to really hold on to. So here are the names we've learned so far. We have Comforter, Healer, Lamb of God, Shepherd, Lord, Fourth Watch God. And then we're going to learn to more other known names. And we're gonna do that in the next segment.

Segment 6 1:11:51

.....

Tammy 1:12:06

All right, let's learn two more names for the Savior. Everybody turn with me to John chapter 6. Grab something to mark your Scriptures with because I'm gonna have you circle the new name the Savior gives Himself. So we have in John 6:35. It's also in verse 48, and it is in verse 51. What is the name the Savior gives Himself?

Susie Q 1:12:33

Bread of life.

Tammy 1:12:34

Very good, underline that, circle it, "the bread of life". Okay, now we're just coming off the heels of feeding 5000. The people are full, right? They have eaten bread, they know that He can provide them with bread, and they want to follow Him. And so He takes this opportunity now to teach them all about the power of bread. And He actually starts to say, I'm the bread of life. Like, you don't need bread if you have me; I'm all that you need. And He gives this beautiful Bread of Life sermon. In fact, it's so powerful - and you can just mark this in your scriptures - because the Bread of Life sermon, it's going to begin in verse 22 and it's going to go all the way to verse 71. That's how many verses. And we don't have time to go over all of it, but I recommend reading it. But the Savior teaches some things that are new things that these people have never considered before. And some of it's a little bit like, Ah, I don't know, because it's - we've talked about this before - it's old wine being met with new wine, and they're not quite sure what to do with it.

Tammy 1:13:36

And so after the Savior gets done teaching that He is the bread of life and what they need to do to follow Him, look at verse 60 in John chapter 6. And Aliah, what is their response to what He's teaching in verse 60?

Aliah 1:13:52

It's hard for them; it says that it's hard for them to hear and some of them become offended.

Tammy 1:13:59

Yes, very good. They're like, Yeah. Look at verse 60 and mark that. "This is an hard saying; who can hear it?" And then I'm grateful you pointed this out Aliah in verse 61. ".........Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples murmured at it and said unto them, Doth this offend you?" Now, when it says disciples, we're talking about followers of Christ, not apostles. So there are close to over 5000 who were there to partake of the bread. There's a lot of people who are hearing these words going, 'It's kind of, I don't know if it sits right with me. It's a hard saying, it's offensive.' Does this sound familiar in the world we're in today? Can we relate to these words? Like, ah, it's uncomfortable. I don't know if I like this. And so as a result, look at verse 66. Suzie, will you read that for us.

Susie Q 1:14:47

66 "From that time, many of His disciples went back and walked no more with Him."

Tammy 1:14:53

Okay. And then they leave. They don't want to have to do what the Savior is asking them to do. They don't want like the feeling of maybe being challenged in their beliefs by accepting this new wine. And so we have this quote, we have to read this quote by Elder Ballard because he sets this up so incredibly well. In October 2016, he has this to say about the disciples leaving. Aliah, can you read this quote.

Aliah 1:15:19

"One of the most heart-wrenching stories in the scriptures occurs when many of the Lord's disciples found it hard to accept His teachings and doctrine. And they went back and walked no more with Him. In that moment, when others focused on what they could not except, the apostle apostles chose to focus on what they did believe and know. And as a result, they remained with Christ."

Tammy 1:15:45

K, let's go back into the story and find that verse where they remained with Christ. So then in verse 67, Jesus says unto the 12, "Will ye also go away?" Like, are you going to leave me?

Aliah 1:15:56

And the the next scripture is one of my favorite scriptures and that comes to mind to me so often, just within my - I don't usually talk about it or anything like that, - but it comes to my mind so often. And it says, "Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life." And I think about that often as I've had, like, friends and family leave the church. And, you know, I, like, will you go too, like, will you leave, too? And I'm like, Where would I go? Like, this is my home, like this is my spiritual home. Where would I go if I left?

Tammy 1:16:43

I didn't know that about, you Aliah. Wow.

Susie Q 1:16:48

I wanted to add to that Aliah, too, because, as you said, that I was thinking, like, there was a time in my life where like, , what I had just said that, you know, things weren't going my way and, and at that time I was living at home with my parents going to the same Ward as them. And I'm like, I just don't want to go to church anymore. And so I changed, I went to a different word. We went from Spanish speaking to English speaking. Well, I didn't, I hope my parents aren't listening. But I went to church, I like for three months, like, I would leave at the same time they would, and I would just drive around. But then that question came to me, to whom shall we go? Where will we go? It's not like I was gonna go to another church. I couldn't; I just, there was nowhere to go. And so that was very conflicting, because I knew the truth, and when you know the truth, there is nowhere else to go, Youu may hide, you try to hide, you try to run away, but you can't. You come back to it every time.

Tammy 1:17:50

Wow. Both of you. This is so great, because I just don't know your stories. And both of you perfectly taught us the power of that phrase, "Lord, to whom shall we go?" And thank you for your testimonies about that. And I think reading this story, and then going to verse 69, for both of you, "....we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." And I think that's where we all sit. We all are in that place where we do know. Are there things that make it hard? Sure. For both of you. Have there been things that are made it hard to be a member of this church?

Aliah 1:18:31

Absolutely.

Tammy 1:18:34

And what do you do with that? Have you have you been offended? Have you been like, "This is, I don't know."

Aliah 1:18:39

All of the above.

Susie Q 1:18:41

That's what I was going to say.

Aliah 1:18:44

But then when I get to that point, like I've been offended, people have been unkind, policies have come and gone and come and gone that I might, Ooo, I don't know about that, you know. But I ask myself, like, Where would I go? Like, where would I go?

Tammy 1:19:04

And I think what struck me when I was studying this is I've always had that idea, Like, where will I go? And for the first time, in verse 68, "to whom shall we go?" That 'whom' right there, like, there's, there's no one else I'm gonna go follow. Like it, I know and believe in Jesus Christ with all of my heart. And that's where it comes to, "thou art Christ, the Son of the living God." This is His church on the Earth, with the power of the priesthood that has been restored. There is nothing greater in my life than the knowledge of that and the peace and the blessings that come from that.

Aliah 1:19:44

Well and I think when you build on that, as the Scriptures say, like, like "the rains came down and the floods came up" and all the, all the things are gonna happen in life, and all the things that you want to happen are not going to happen. Like, it's gonna be pandemonium. And, but like if you build on the rock of our Savior, then there's nowhere to go. There's nowhere to go.

Aliah 1:20:14

I mean, I guess you weather the storm, whatever that maybe, you know.

Tammy 1:20:20

You toil.

Aliah 1:20:20

Yeah. I love that. Like I love what we read. Sorry I'm going back a little bit. I love what we read by Michael Wilcox about him being a fourth watch God. But in that same, in those same scriptures when Peter calls out to the, to the Savior that he's drowning, it says the Lord immediately reached out His hand. So I think sometimes it for us it's the fourth watch. And for Him, it's immediately. The key is always right there ready.

Tammy 1:20:58

Yes.

Aliah 1:20:58

And it feels to us to be the fourth watch, but He is like, I have never left you.

Tammy 1:21:04

Yeah. It's immediate. Oh, thank you for teaching us that, Aliah. That is a true, that is true doctrine what you just taught us. So thank you.

Susie Q 1:21:16

Can I share a quote, Tammy?

Tammy 1:21:17

Please, Susie.

Susie Q 1:21:18

President M Russell Ballard. He says, "Sometimes we can learn, study and know. And sometimes we have to believe, trust, and hope." And I love that. I love that. Because that, I feel like that's sometimes we're all about, Yes, I know, I know, I know. And sometimes we just have to trust and hope, and what the promises the Savior has given us.

Tammy 1:21:42

Yep. And that goes right back to how we started. The hope, the idea of this help for us. So thank you, Susie. Oh, my gosh, you guys, what a fabulous discussion. That's it, we're done. So let me just repeat, here are all of the names we have today. These are the other names, other known names for the Savior from today. Comforter, Healer, Lamb of God, Shepherd, Lord, Fourth Watch God, Bread of Life. That is our testimony today of Jesus Christ. So, thank you so much, both of you. I love you guys. Okay, so just gather your thoughts and anything that you're going to take away from today's discussion. You can just think about it for a minute. K, and when you have it, just hit it.

Aliah 1:22:25

I think my takeaway for today is I love our discussion in segment 3 where we're talking about when Christ goes up to the mount to pray. And like, you know, going to the temple and being close to our Heavenly Father and, and receiving comfort from Him. I think that's something that that I needed to hear today and that I needed to remember that I could go to the temple and be close to my Fathers in Heaven.

Tammy 1:22:58

Absolutely, I did love that discussion.

Tammy 1:23:02

Thank you for coming prepared too, by the way.

Tammy 1:23:04

Why don't you Susie, Susie Q.

Tammy 1:23:07

Susie Q. I loved when we talked about Jesus feeding the 5000. I guess I had never thought about like Elder Holland's quote: "Don't worry about Christ running out of ability to help you; His grace is sufficient." I've been working on understanding grace. But I love that we do our part but the Lord is the one who has provided the grace and is sufficient for us. And I just love that, love that thought when we were talking about that. That really hit me and is something that I really like want to think about more about His grace.

Tammy 1:23:50

And that you're the little lad, little Suzy. So good.

Tammy 1:23:55

Mine was the first segment and I wrote so many notes. But I loved when both of you taught us that to never lose hope, and that He is the source of light. And just this idea of this man who had no man to help him. And I loved Susie, you teaching us that Jesus went to him. That just reframed the way we teach that, so often, that's, you know what, a lot of times the Savior will. He does, He just comes to you and meets you where you are. And, and He is hope. So, that was a great discussion for me, as a Healer and Comforter. So thank you to both of you.

Susie Q 1:23:55

Thank you

Aliah 1:24:26

Thanks

Tammy 1:24:27

I love you both.

Aliah 1:24:30

Well I am so glad that I got to be on here with you, Susie. What an amazing human you are.

Susie Q 1:24:36

Well, thank you.

Tammy 1:24:37

I agree. Well, of course I want to know what you guys learned. So if you haven't already joined our discussion group on Facebook, or if you're not following us on Instagram, go sign up. Just join it. It's so cool because it's a great place to share what you've learned throughout the week and to answer questions that people ask, or the one that we're going to ask at the end of the week. On a Saturday we post a question from this episode. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your answers and thoughts.

Tammy 1:25:03

You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. And it's not a bad idea to go there. That's where you're going to find the links to all the references that we used today, as well as a complete transcript of this whole discussion, and a really cool glue-in for this episode. You're gonna want this one for your scriptures.

Tammy 1:25:22

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me Tammy Uzelac Hall and today our beautiful study group participants were Aliah Hall and Suzie Q Hernandez. And you can find more information about these friends at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited by Hailey Higham and recorded and mixed by Mix At Six Studios. Our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here.

Tammy 1:25:49

We'll see you next week and you please better remember, you are God's favorite!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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