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15: “Stand Still, and See the Salvation of the Lord” (Exodus 14–17)

Fri Apr 01 17:45:41 EDT 2022
Episode 15

When you were younger, what made you feel afraid? Was it the dark? Monsters under the bed? Spiders? Maybe some of your little kid worries remain (is anyone really not scared of spiders?), but likely you’ve matured out of most of them. There is one fear, however, that seems to stick with most of us—the fear of the unknown. The children of Israel in Moses’ day knew this unsettling feeling all too well, especially after they left Egypt. As we study Exodus 14–17, we’ll learn what the children of Israel found to be the antidote for fear, even in the face of uncertainty.

Segment 1:


Exodus 14:5–8

Exodus 12:37


High Hand = Triumphantly, Defiance

Segment 2:


Exodus 14:4, 9–15


Sore Afraid: NIV = Terrified, NLV = Panicked, ESV = Feared Greatly

Honored = Gain Honor


Hold your peace = To b silent or deaf, to not listen to the voices around you.

Picture: Map #2
“Israel’s Exodus from Egypt and Entry into Canaan”


Segment 3:


Exodus 14:16–31

Moses 1:25

JST: Genesis 50:34

Exodus 13:21–22

Genesis 1:9–10


Angel of God = Jehovah

Morning Watch = Between 6 a.m. and 9 a.m.

Fear = Reverence or Respect


Prove = Test or Try

Segment 4:


Exodus 15: The Song of the Sea or the Song of Moses

Exodus 15:1–27

Genesis 46:3–4

Exodus 3:6, 13–15


Palm Branch = Victory of the Faithful, Uprightness, Ultimate Triumphant


Marah = Bitter

70 = Perfect spiritual order carried out with all power, a period of judgement.


The “Israelites sang a triumphant song celebrating Pharaoh’s defeat and Jehovah’s deliverance of his people on dry land in the midst of the sea. Exodus 15:1–19, known as the Song of the Sea, is one of the earliest examples of Israelite poetry in the Old Testament” (Seely and Welch, Zenos and the Texts of the Old Testament, 323).

“Moses, in addition to being a prophet, was also a songwriter and singer (see also Deuteronomy 32) and wrote a poetic song of praise and triumph commemorating the gifts of freedom, salvation, and victory over opposition” (D. Kelly Ogden, Andrew C. Skinner, Verse by Verse: The Old Testament, Vol. 1, Deseret Book).

“At the beginning of Israel's life in Egypt the sons of Jacob style themselves in their address to Joseph ‘the servants of the God of thy father’” (50, I7) (M. H. Segal, “The Religion of Israel before Sinai,” Jewish Quarterly Review, vol. 52, no. 1, July 1961, 41–68).

Segment 5:


Exodus 16:2–4, 13–16, 18, 20, 26, 28, 31


Flesh pots = Meat

Omer = Pint or Six Cups


Manna = What is it?

Prove = To Test or Try

Segment 6:


Exodus 17:1–13

James 2:14


Massah = Testing, Trying, Proving

Meribah = Strife or Complaint

Emunah = Faith, the root of Emunah is aman, which means to support.

Israel = Let God Prevail

Jehovah-nissi = The Lord is my banner.

Tammy 0:00

What would you say is the most frightening thing about life, now? I'm guessing your age might affect your answer. Because when I was little, it was spiders and the dark. Oh, I was terrified. But now that I'm more mature, what frightens me is actually more personal. So I went and googled this question, and it was surprising that almost with certainty was the same answer: Uncertainty. Yep, that's right. The most frightening thing for the majority of adults is the uncertainty of life. Well, today's study of Exodus 14 through 17 will teach us that it was also the same thing that frightened the children of Israel.

Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus Original brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come Follow Me lesson for the week and we dig into the scriptures together, and I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Okay, if you're new to our study group, I just want to make sure you know how to use this podcast. So go follow the link that's in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come Follow Me study for this week, just like my friend - oh, I love her - Debbie Richardson Frederick. And I love her because she reached out to me and said that she's still laughing about Amy's coat story that was from Episode Four last year.

So I'm just telling everybody right now, do yourself a favor and go and listen to the very beginning of that episode and you will laugh until you almost pee your pants. It is the greatest story! So Debbie, I'm so glad you still love it. Hi, shout out to Debbie, and Amy and her coat story.

Okay, now another awesome thing - this is my favorite thing about our study group - is each week we're joined by two of my friends and I just love these women so much. I adore them and I'm so grateful that they're here with me. We have Sharmaine Howell and Becky Alder. Hi, ladies.

Sharmaine Howell 1:37

Hey, Tammy,

Tammy 1:39

The dynamic duo back again. I was thinking of you individually, like who could I put them with? And then I thought no, I can't; they have to be together.

Sharmaine Howell 1:47

It's so fun to be back.

Becky Alder 1:49

I love being on here.

Tammy 1:50

Well, we love each other. We were all on the ward together and then you moved, Shar.

Sharmaine Howell 1:54

I know. Just waitin', come join me.

Tammy 1:58

Yeah, Becky. How about that? She go to Minnesota?

Becky Alder 2:01

No, that sounds colder than Utah.

Sharmaine Howell 2:05

Nah, it's not.

Tammy 2:07

A little bit, right? Just a little bit. We could all go to work for her in her Crumble Cookies stores.

Becky Alder 2:12

We could.

Sharmaine Howell 2:12


Tammy 2:13

Shar went out to Minnesota to welcome the people, the Minnesoteans, the people of Minnesota to the wonderful world of Crumble Cookies.

Sharmaine Howell 2:24

Yeah. They're the best!

Tammy 2:26

For those of you don't know what it is, Shar, what is Crumble Cookie for all of our friends who don't know of it.

Sharmaine Howell 2:32

It's just a gourmet cookie store and we make them fresh in the store every day. It's very awesome and fun and tiring.

Tammy 2:42

And they're huge.

Sharmaine Howell 2:44

Yeah, they're big.

Tammy 2:45

Do you like those cookies, Beck?

Becky Alder 2:47

I love the chocolate chip ones the most. They're my favorites.

Tammy 2:51

Yes, definitely. You could feed a small family on one.

Sharmaine Howell 2:56

I do feed my small family on them.

That's all those kids are eating there now. They, love kids in Minnesota now. Crumble Cookies for all my friends. That's how we lured them away. We'll have cookies. Okay, fine. We'll move.

Tammy 3:10

I'm surprised my kids didn't move with you then. Soph would have moved for sure for that. Ah, all right. Well, if you want to know more about my guests, you can read their bios and see their pictures in our show notes, which are at

Okay, so I just have to ask you two. When I asked you to be on the episode, were you a little bit nervous? And then did it change to excitement? Like when you heard Old Testament, what did you think?

Becky Alder 3:34

I love the Old Testament, right? Especially in these beginning, you know, the beginning books just because I don't know. The stories are so like dramatic and big. And I don't know, I like the Old Testament. But being on the podcast makes me nervous. So

Sharmaine Howell 3:53

Yeah, that's what I'll echo. I was excited about the Old Testament and nervous about the podcast.

Tammy 3:58

Ah, nah, you're with me, though. Come on.

Sharmaine Howell 4:01

We're all friends.

Tammy 4:02

We are. We edit this to make you sound really smart. We'll probably edit that out. (laughter) Oh my gosh, okay, well, it is such good stuff. And Becky, like you said, the beginning chapters are so awesome, these beginning books. And so we are back in Exodus, and it's going to be so much fun because we are, so we're going to pick up where we left off last week. Last week, we had all the plagues. And we finished with the final plague. The firstborn, families, and cattle were killed. And Pharaoh finally relents, and he's going to let the children of Israel go. And so that's where we're going to pick up our story today. So everyone, grab your scriptures, your scripture journal and something to mark your Scriptures with. And let's dig in.

Have you guys ever had a moment of triumph? Or you were like, YES! And you're just like, you know, like I'm doing right now: shaking your hands in the air or your fist and you just were so excited. Maybe you even yelled YES!! Whattaya got?

Sharmaine Howell 4:58

Yeah, so I was thinking about that story last week. So you know, we're in like the dead of winter in Minnesota still. And it's like June, right? Just kidding. For our store, we have a storage unit and it happens to be outside. Well, it used to be outside, we've moved it, but it's sealed shut with ice on the bottom, and we couldn't open it up, like the garage door. And so it was me and my little lonesome there with this huge like, axe, picking away the ice. And just like, for so long, and I was like, out loud, Are you kidding me?

I can't believe I'm doing this. What the heck? Like everything in the book. I'm like, and I've just like keep hacking away at the ice and smacking it. And finally I like leverage something under it like pop, like one centimeter open. And I was like, yeahhhhh. I'm sure there's like security cameras and the guards are watching me in this little alleyway of this storage unit playin, doin a little jig and I finally like popped the unit up. It was, it was glorious.

Tammy 6:01

That IS glorious! That's a good story for a moment of triumph. Thank you. What about you, Beck?

Becky Alder 6:07

That's a great story. Mine is not as great, but I just thought, like any time one of my children finally got potty trained. We were out with a celebration and when, then when the last one was potty trained. Yes, you are

Sharmaine Howell 6:22

allowed to talk about that one over the pulpit.

Tammy 6:26

For sure. For sure.

Sharmaine Howell 6:27

That's a big day.

Becky Alder 6:28

That is a big day.

Tammy 6:29

Oh, that's a good moment and triumph, that's awesome. Okay, you guys, well, here's mine. It was my senior year in high school. And I played basketball and was on the varsity team. And listen, I'm gonna go ahead and just use the word 'played' loosely. Anyway, I was mostly on the bench, it's where I spent most of my games. But you guys, coach put me in and it's my time to shine and show the coach and the team and the entire school that I had what it took to be a star. So the ball got passed to me. And I'm freaking out because that rarely happens. And I dribble down the court. And I took that shot you guys. I took it..........and I made it!

And I was so thrilled, that I ended up spending so much time celebrating, that coach had to yell for me to run back to the other side of the court and take my position! Man, it was an awesome moment. It was like, YES, all those practices, I did it! These moment of triumphs are so important in our life. If any of you listening have moments - and in fact, I would love it if anyone wanted to share what is your moment of triumph? - because I just think how Exodus chapter 14, verse 8 describes the children of Israel's moment of triumph, is so fabulous, that we have to go read it.

So here's what's happened: Pharaoh has let the children of Israel go. And then he started to have second thoughts. And he's like, Oh, dear, what did we do? We got to go after them. And you can just mark that in verses 5-8. He gathers all of his chariots and all of his people. And he says we, in fact he says at the verse - at the end of verse 5, 'Why have we done this? What have we let Israel go from serving us?' Like, don't you love that?

Sharmaine Howell 8:01

'Well, wait, what did we just do? Back it up.'

Tammy 8:04

'Yeah, wait a minute, now we're gonna have to build our own stuff.' Right?

Sharmaine Howell 8:07

It's like when you tell your kids that they can finally go like, play Nintendo or watch TV and you're like, Wait a minute, there's a couple more chores I want you to do first. Ah, dang it, they're already gone.

Tammy 8:16

Totally. Or for me, it's when you ground your kids from internet and friends. Wait, what did I do?

Becky Alder 8:22

The opposite is also true. You're right.

Tammy 8:24

Yes, very good. So they have these second thoughts. And I just think it's incredible because here they are now. They decide we're going to chase after the children of Israel and the children of Israel have already begun walking. Now, again, some perspective, and we talked about this last week. But if you turn the page really quickly, and you go back to Exodus, chapter 12, verse 37, it tells us how many people were in this group. So look at that really quickly and you can see. Becky, tell us about the size of this group.

Becky Alder 8:52

Yes, 600,000 on foot that were men, besides children.

Tammy 8:57

We're just talking about the men, not even the kids or the women. So this is a huge entourage, a huge group that is now fleeing Egypt. And Pharaoh and his people decide, No, we're going after 'em. Let's go back to Exodus chapter 14, and read verse 8, and we're going to see what it has to do with our moment of triumph. Shar, will you please read that for us. And so it just says

Ex 14:8 (And Pharaoh will harden his heart, instead of "the Lord harden the heart of Pharaoh". And so, the Pharaoh hardened his heart) ".....and he pursued after the children of Israel and the children of Israel went out with an high hand."

Yeah. Highlight 'high hand'.

Becky Alder 9:30

What does that even refer to?

Tammy 9:32

It means, in Hebrew it means

Sharmaine Howell 9:33


Tammy 9:34

Yes. In defiance. They're just like, Yeah! So highlight 'high hand' and put "in defiance" next to it. They're just like, We did it!

Sharmaine Howell 9:46

I'm just writing booyah.

Tammy 9:48

Perfect. Give me your best 'children of Israel moment' right now. What does that look like for you? Give it to me. Oh my gosh! K, we're going to put that picture in our show notes like, I, just think of what that looks like for you, if you're with your family, do it. What does this moment of just defiance, like, Yes, we did it! It's just the best description.

So my question is, I love Shar, how you wrote Booyah. So I want us to just kind of think for a minute, what are we thinking as we're part of this group? After all that we've just come from: 10 Crazy plagues within a year's time, you're now free, and you're walking. And I'm just thinking of, you know what it's like to start a race? And if you're in the back of the race group, you're like, Come on already. Or when the light turns green, and you're further down the line, you're like, everyone should be moving faster, right? Like, what are some of your thoughts if you were part of this group, going out in defiance?

Becky Alder 10:43

Well, you want to go fast, like you're saying, like you, like, let's get out of here. But moving that many people? I mean, if that, if 600,000 is only the men, I mean, I don't know, were we talking about a million people, 2 million people? I don't know, but that's a lot of people to move.

Sharmaine Howell 11:06

It's hard to just get five kids in the car. But

Tammy 11:11

Amen! So there's a moment of triumph for moms on a Sunday.

Sharmaine Howell 11:15

Yeah, showed up to Church on time. Haven't done it quite yet. But I was thinking that just picturing what their life has been like for the last, who knows how many years and the feelings that they would be having walking away from that. That's so much more than just like in defiance. That is just like they have accomplished, they have conquered. And you know, they've waited patiently, and probably what you were just saying, like, what's next? Like, what would, you know, like, let's do this, I can't wait to do something besides what I was just doing. You know, I can't even imagine that feeling that they must have been having.

Tammy 11:55

Okay, I like this so much, Shar that you just said that, let's, they're leaving, like I can't wait to stop doing what we've been doing. Because I think there's so much into that. And I want us to kind of think about that in our brains as we talk about today's discussion, because their situation was so harsh, so bitter, so horrible, that they were thrilled to finally be leaving that. And so I want us to kind of think about that, because that will play into the discussion today with how they react when times get hard.

So let's kind of remember that because I think you're right, I think they were like, Oh, so great. We don't have to make anything anymore. We don't have to make bricks, we don't have to find the straw to do it. And so yeah, they're excited and thrilled in defiance to get out of there. So thank you both of you for sharing your insights and thoughts on that. So yes, they did it. They were free, but not for long, maybe. So we're going to talk about that in the next segment.

Segment 2 12:47


Tammy 12:51

So I want to go back to the question that we started with. I want to know ladies, what scares you? And has it changed over the years like it has for me?

Becky Alder 13:00

Yes. When I when I was a kid, I was afraid of the dark. I remember waking up in the middle of the night a lot. I would turn on my bedroom light and then turn on the hall light and then like turn on lights to go all the way up to my parents' room, that I would I would get into my parents' bed almost every single morning, like early - four or five in the morning.

Sharmaine Howell 13:19

Oh boy. That was nice mom and dad.

Tammy 13:25

That's sweet.

Becky Alder 13:27

So but now, like you said earlier, I'm not afraid of the dark anymore. I have four sons that may some day all get married. And I am worried about daughters-in-law who might not like me or might not like each other or

Sharmaine Howell 13:42

Not gonna happen to you, Becky.

Tammy 13:44

Well, no, especially because two of her sons are already betrothed to my two girls. Okay, we've already arranged that. So you're I know you'll love two of 'em.

Sharmaine Howell 13:52

We'll take the youngest one for my eldest. Yeah, we'll do that.

Tammy 13:56

But those are real fears, Becky, that's a real fear. It is uncertainty, isn't it? You're not sure what's gonna happen with sons. Yeah, great one. What about you, Shar?

Sharmaine Howell 14:05

I was definitely afraid of spiders. When I was little I would put cups over the top of them if I found them and just leave the cup sitting there for you know, the next unsuspecting person to come kill the spider. I was also really afraid of sweaty armpits. (laughter) I think you know, seeing other people's sweaty armpits was one, and my own. But, you know, maybe that hasn't changed very much.

Tammy 14:30

It still freaks you out.

Sharmaine Howell 14:31

Yes. So it's a little worrisome to me. But I think, but you know, it does, has changed over the years. I think now I am, as I was thinking like, what am I afraid of now? It's definitely just like, am I doing what's right by God, and am I giving my kids what they need? And so I guess that is a bit of uncertainty like, you know, let's just pray that this is what I'm supposed to be doing and pray that this is what my kids need right now. And it's ever- changing. And so that's my fear right now. Working through it.

Tammy 15:04

Great answers both of you. I love your examples. So thank you for sharing those. Let's jump into Exodus chapter 14. And we're going to look at verses 9-10. And we're gonna find out what the children of Israel were afraid of. Becky, will you please read for us in Exodus chapter 14, verses 9 and 10.

Becky Alder 15:20

Ex 14:9 "But the Egyptians pursued after them, all the horses and chariots of Pharaoh, and his horsemen, and his army, and overtook them encamping by the sea, beside Pihahiroth, before Baal-Zephon.

10 "And when Pharaoh drew nigh, the children of Israel lifted up their eyes, and, behold, the Egyptians marched after them; and they were sore afraid: and the children of Israel cried out unto the Lord."

Tammy 15:50

Okay, highlight how it describes the children of Israel were feeling - what does it say in there. They were what?

Sharmaine Howell 15:57

Sore afraid,

Tammy 15:58

Sore afraid. Highlight that. I really like the way it is described in some different translations of the Bible. It's kind of fun sometimes to go and read what the NIV, which is the New International Version says, and then the NLV, and then the ESV. And I thought this was interesting: in the NIV it doesn't say sore afraid, it says, "And they were terrified." I think that's a fair statement. The NIV says they were "panicked." And the ESV says "they feared greatly." So all of these are right, you can imagine that they are sore afraid, just so nervous about this.

But here's what's really interesting about it: is they weren't out numbered. Several scholars imagine that there may have only been 100,000 Egyptian soldiers that were coming towards these 600,000 plus Israelites. So they wouldn't have necessarily been out-numbered. What were they afraid of? What do you think was causing them such great fear, then?

Sharmaine Howell 16:54

Just maybe that prospect of having to go back?

Tammy 16:57

Oh, yeah,

Becky Alder 16:59

Yes, these were whose who had rolled over them for how many hundreds of years, and they were probably afraid of them.

Tammy 17:08

Absolutely. And I like how you put that, 'afraid of going back' for sure. Now, let's do this, because it's one of my favorite things about our discussion today. And I think we all need to know how to use this for the rest of Exodus and Numbers. So I want us to go into the map section of our scriptures, we're gonna want to use this map. So you can do this on the gospel app, if you go into the library. And then you go into scriptures. And then you click in Study Helps, you're going to find Bible maps. If you have physical scriptures, you're going to find a map section in the very back of your Bible. And what you want to look for his map number two, it's called Israel's Exodus from Egypt and Entry into Canaan.

Now, if you have a phone or an iPad, and you're using that type of map, then you just click on the map, and then you can zoom in on it. But it's so interesting to look at this because we have, #1 is where they're started, in Ramseys. The #2, Succoth is where they first got to when they left. And then Becky, you just read place #3, Pihahiroth. So that's where they are on this map section. And that's important to know, because you can see that the only way they can get to the next spot is to do what?

Sharmaine Howell 18:19

Cross over the Red Sea.

Tammy 18:21

Yes. Now, it looks like a small little section doesn't it? In some estimations they say it may have been anywhere from 16 to 20 miles wide. I asked Kerry Muhlestein and he broadened that from about 12 to 20 miles. But either way, that's a lot of miles. So that really had a lot of perspective on me when I was like, oh, that's what they had to, that's what they had to cross through - 16 miles? I wouldn't, I mean, my husband doesn't want to drive 16 miles. If we're going out, and he's like, Where are we going? I say, oh, it's, you know, downtown. 'All the way downtown?' Yeah, it's like 20 miles, dude, just get in the car. I mean, it's funny how they're gonna walk that far to get to their freedom.

Sharmaine Howell 19:00

Wow, and you wonder why they didn't just cross before the Red Sea started.

Becky Alder 19:06

Up higher?

Tammy 19:07

Why do you think, Shar, what are your thoughts?

Sharmaine Howell 19:10

I don't know. You know, Moses is a prophet; you'd think he would have had a little bit of foresight into that. And we know about Moses in the Pearl of Great Price how he saw all things from the beginning to the end, nothing was left out, like, HELLO!

Becky Alder 19:24

But maybe God led them that way for a reason.

Tammy 19:27

Mm hmm. I think you're right, in fact, turn the page, look at Exodus, chapter 14, verse 4. I think this is kind of cool. In verse 4 the Lord is having a conversation with Moses. And he says, "And I will harden Pharaoh's heart", so there's that verse again. Actually, Pharaoh hardened his heart, "that he shall follow after them;" after the children of Israel, "and I will be honored upon Pharaoh". Highlight "be honored". That actually means 'gain honor'; the Lord's saying, 'I will gain honor "upon Pharaoh and upon all his hosts and the Egyptians may know that I am the Lord." And they did so.

I think the Lord knows what's about to happen. And he's like, Oh, this will be huge.

Sharmaine Howell 20:09

This is the only way to teach and show the Egyptians that I'm the Lord.

Tammy 20:14

And the children of Israel.

Sharmaine Howell 20:15

And the children of Israel, right.

Tammy 20:16

Oh my gosh. So let's go into the story. Okay, here we go. Okay, so they're the children of Israel are; they are sore afraid. And so what do they do in verses 11-12? Shar, what do you notice about them?

Sharmaine Howell 20:28

Well, they're, I guess, a little bit complaining, like, Why have you taken us into the wilderness? We're just going to die here that, you know. There's, weren't there graves, we should have just died in Egypt, you know, but we walked all the way here already? It totally reminded me of Laman and Lemuel when I read those verses, how they were out in the wilderness with their brother and saying, it had, "it would have been better had we stayed in Jerusalem"; what are we doing in the wilderness? And in verse 12, it says, "For it had been better for us to serve the Egyptians". They're saying the exact same thing. It would have been better for us to stay with the Egyptians. Now we're going to just die out here.

Oh, my gosh, you're totally right. In fact, it goes back to what Kerry Muhlestein said: "Oftentimes when people follow the Lord, they expect it to just come with ease". Like okay, now everything's going to work for our good and be easy peasy. Like, yeah they probably should have gone up and around the Red Sea. And now here they are, they're faced with this moment. And so we have to just bracket off verses 13-15 because I think these are some of the best Bible verses of all time, and we're going to break it down. So this is where we're really sitting at your table, Shar, and I'm going to teach you these three verses. And I want you ladies to just shout out whatever you think as we go through these because it's so awesome. Okay, here we go.

Tammy 21:37

Verse 13, says, "And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord," [highlight those and number 'em: fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord], "which he will shew you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more forever."

Ah, isn't that good? Like you might be afraid of them now,. but there will be a point where you'll never have to worry about them again.

14 "The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.

Highlight, "hold your peace."

15 "And the Lord said unto Moses, wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward:"

Highlight that. So I want to break it down a little bit, because there's some really cool things. First of all, fear ye not. Alright, we've done this before on the podcast, but I never get tired of it: reach to the very back of your neck, where your brain and your neck connect. You know there's a little space right there, a little indent. Go above it and feel that. That spot right there is where your amygdala is up inside your brain. And your amygdala is your 'fight or flight response'. God gave it to you in your brain to assess situations and know whether you should fight or flight. It's the fear sensor. It's the place that has all of your emotions connected right there.

And so God gave these people the ability to feel the very thing that God is saying don't feel: Fear not. Because right now they are anxious, and their adrenaline is running, and they are ready to just take off. And they are supposed to run; their body is saying run. And so He says, look at this: 'fear not', and then what does He tell them to do?

Sharmaine Howell 23:18

Stand still. I love that.

Tammy 23:20

Don't run. Oh my gosh, that'd be scary. Because your brain and your body are like, Get out of here, right? Everything's telling you. Then He says, "see the salvation of the Lord. Oh, what is about to happen will be incredible. And then go to verse 14: "The Lord shall fight for you and you shall hold your peace. Highlight, "hold your peace." So in Hebrew, the definition for hold your peace - this is awesome - it can also mean 'to be silent or deaf', to 'not listen to the voices around you', to 'not listen to anything other than the Lord, to the Spirit in your heart'. Isn't that profound?

Hold your peace. And I'm thinking about all the voices that play into our decisions, into who we are, and what we think about ourselves. And so I want to know now that we've heard what the Lord had to say to the children of Israel, tell me some of your thoughts. What are you thinking as you're learning this?

Becky Alder 24:10

I feel like this is relevant today. I think there's so many voices and so many people saying different things all over the world and things happening. And I think we need to listen to what the Lord told Moses as people, you know. We need to not fear, we need to stand still, and we need to see the salvation of God and know that He will fight for us. I wrote down when Kerry (Muhlestein) was on the podcast a while back, he said something about we need to believe that God can conquer and deliver us if we really believe that He is our Savior, then He is the Conqueror and the Deliverer. And that not just from big things like escaping from the Egyptians or getting out of Jerusalem or big things like that, but He can deliver us from our depression, and He can deliver us from the hard things that we're going through ,and anxieties, and all sorts of things. I just really, really love that. But this verse 14, "The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace." I think, if we believe the Lord really can do that, we can find peace.

Tammy 25:19

Becky, can I ask real quickly, why you chose depression, of all the things to be delivered from?

Becky Alder 25:27

We are very open about this: when my husband and I'd been married just about four or five years, and he sunk into some depression. And it lasted five or six years. And then it took several years for him to kind of remember who he was and kind of come back into himself. So when it started, we had just had our second baby boy. And a few years later, we had a third and I thought my third was going to be my last kid, because I was kind of parenting by myself. And you know, we were struggling But my husband, he was able to get more help than just medicines, like he was able to go to Talk Therapy and really kind of process some things, and he was able to get off his meds and kind of pull through.

And I said, Well, we're having another baby, then. So we had another baby, and he's our magic. So I can't think of our family without him. But you know, it was hard. And we try so hard to help other people, because depression is hard. It's very hard. You know, people need to get out there and get all the help that they can get. And when I look back, I do feel like the Lord was carrying me and helping me to accomplish all the things that I needed to accomplish, to pull my family through, and we made it. So

Tammy 26:54

Thank you for sharing that; I, I knew your story. And I just, I'm grateful for you sharing it, because I remember the first time you shared it with me, it was so profound. And everyone in the room who heard your story, which was a relief to the society, I mean, it was in a Relief Society lesson, and everyone there had a visceral reaction. I mean, you just could feel this total group sigh of relief, like, Oh, we're talking about something real. I mean, it was just such a good lesson. And I just wanted everyone hearing to know that when she said that the Lord really can, He can fight your battles for you, that she knows from firsthand experience what that's like, and you've gotten into more depth before, but I just, you are witness to that. So thank you for sharing that with us, Becky.

Sharmaine Howell 27:38

Yep, I love that.

Tammy 27:39

What about you, Shar?

Sharmaine Howell 27:40

I just love that same verse for the same kind of reasons. When I read that, "ye shall hold your peace", it made me think that we should wait upon the Lord's timing. And so just trusting that, you know, while He is fighting for us, sometimes we gotta wait a little bit for it. And like these Israelites, they were probably like, Well, there's not much time here to wait', right? But they stood on that edge of the water waiting. And I like how it also means silent or deaf to those voices, but patiently waiting for, you know, when the Lord is gonna make it happen. And sometimes I feel like I'm in the middle of that, and just praying every day that the Lord will keep fighting for me and for my kids.

And you know, in this, sometimes you send them to school, and it's just like, what's going on in these days, you know, and I, you know, just keep praying that the Lord will fight for us, no matter what we're going through. And sometimes it will take holding our peace and waiting and not letting the world push us over and tell us that it's not going to happen, or you know, that our dreams are too lofty, or whatever it is. Like, just wait for it because it will come.

Tammy 28:48

Great perspective. Shar, thank you for sharing that. Thank you, Becky and Shar, I really appreciate that. It, that was a beautiful description of those words and an application in our lives. So thank you so much. Okay, so Moses then says to the people go forward. So in the next segment, we will find out how they were able to do that.

Segment 3 29:06


Tammy 29:13

I want to know: do both of you like to read? Are you guys readers?

Becky Alder 29:16


Sharmaine Howell 29:17

I think Becky's an avid book listener. She's always

Becky Alder 29:20

I'm listening to books - a lot of books. Yes. Even of the book clubs I've started, I don't even attend them. Yes, I'm terrible.

Tammy 29:28

It's true, I was in one with her. I know.

Becky Alder 29:31

We had a mother-daughter book Club that I didn't even go. Oh, well.

Tammy 29:34

The book clubs. I mean, I don't ever read the books. I go but I don't read the, listen. The last book I read was <Super Fudge>, okay? I don't like to read at all. But the times I have read, I will say, there's a statement out there for those who are book readers, which is when the book is turned into a movie, they say the book is always better. Would you agree?

Becky Alder 29:53

Yes. I like to read the book before I see a movie because if I see a movie I usually won't read the book.

Tammy 30:00

Okay, yeah. Well, and I did read <Harry Potter> series, but I read the books first and I am such a snob. Because I'm watching the movie, I'm like, that's not what happened in the book. Oh, they totally forgot this part. Like, I was like I wrote the book. I'm totally offended for her.

Sharmaine Howell 30:14

So now you're trying to do the movies a service by not reading, Tammy?

Tammy 30:18

Yes, exactly. I want to honor the people that put forth the effort to make the movie. Okay, well, I want us to think about that phrase, because here we go, we have the story, but honestly, the book is so much better. So go with us: we are going to start in Exodus, chapter 14, verse 16. And we're just going to read the verses, because it's awesome. And we're going to point out some really cool tidbits and things for you to mark. So let's Shar, will you please read Exodus chapter 14, verses 16-18.

14:16 "But lift up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea."

Okay, pause for a second there. Cross reference that with Moses, chapter one, verse 25. Before this whole thing happens, we have to remember: Moses happens, the Book of Moses, when the Lord comes to visit him. And He almost gives him a little bit of a Patriarchal blessing. And Moses heard this from the Lord and I don't know that Moses even knew what He was talking about. So let's go to Moses, chapter one, verse 25, Becky, will you read that for us.

Becky Alder 31:19

Mos 1:25 "And calling upon the name of God, he beheld his glory again, for it was upon him; and he heard a voice, saying: Blessed art thou, Moses, for I, the Almighty have chosen thee, and thou shalt be made stronger than many waters; for they shall obey thy command as if thou wert God."

Sharmaine Howell 31:39

That's awesome.

Tammy 31:41

Yeah. Right? Like, hey, and here's what I'm going to give you. And Moses was like, Oh, that's not, I mean, I don't even know if he knew what that meant. And now here he is in this moment, and I am hoping he's like, Oh, my gosh, this is the moment. This is what that blessing meant. I think of our Patriarchal Blessings. There's so many cool things in there that we don't really know what it means. In fact, this is interesting: when I was 16 years old - now, listen, people - that was back in the 80s. My Patriarch says, I am given a specific warning about modern-day technologies, and ways of gaining knowledge quickly, and I should be careful with how I use them.

There was no internet then. So I was like, Oh, yeah, like, I'm gonna go to the exciting Encyclopedia Britannica and read them all. Like, there was no Wikipedia, there was no Cliff Notes. And here is now: I'm in a situation where I'm constantly doing research. And I have that playing through my brain where I am checking every single source. And I'm careful about the sources that I use, because God knew that I needed that piece of information for my future. Isn't that amazing?

Becky Alder 32:40

That is really, really cool.

Tammy 32:42

Read your patriarchal blessings, people; see what the Lord is trying to tell you be foreshadowing.

Sharmaine Howell 32:47

Also in the Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis 50, verse 34, when we covered that section in the Come Follow Me, it really stood out to me. Because it says another prophecy of Moses,

Tammy 32:57

Oooh, tell us.

Sharmaine Howell 32:58

And it says - so this is the Lord talking to Joseph before he died, blessing his children, right? And He said, "I will raise up Moses, [and] a rod shall be in his hand, and he shall gather together my people and he shall lead them as a flock, and he shall smite the waters of the Red Sea with his rod." So now it gets even more specific. And, you know, I'm just curious, like, wondering if Moses read this kind of stuff. And he's like, 'When am I gonna just smack the Red Sea with my rod? Like, what does that gonna mean? What does that look like?' Probably didn't picture 600,000 people standing behind him. I don't know. But I just, that's another, you know, a little patriarchal blessing. He kind of got them here and there. And, you know, makes me wonder how much he actually knew what he was going into and how it was like,

Tammy 33:42

Shar, that is so cool. For those of you who didn't hear that, that was in the Joseph Smith Translation of the book of Genesis chapter 50. Oh, my gosh, I'm so grateful you brought that in. Thank you. So cool. Okay, Shar, will you finish verses 17-18.

Sharmaine Howell 33:56

17 "And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour upon Pharaoh," [this little pirate voice there,] 'and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.

18 "And the Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord, when I have gotten me honor upon Pharaoh, and upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen."

Tammy 34:19

Thank you, very good. Okay, Becky, read for us verses 19 and 20.

Becky Alder 34:24

19 "And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them;

20 "And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by a night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night."

Tammy 34:47

Okay, let's cross reference these verses. Put Exodus chapter 13 verses 21 through 22. We did not cover this in last week's episode, so we're going to do it right no. After the Pharaoh let the Children of Israel go, the Lord set a sign for the people. And He did this in Exodus chapter 13, verses 21 and 22. And Becky, will you read those for us.

Becky Alder 35:11

Ex 13:21 "And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by date and night:

22 "He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people."

Tammy 35:27

Thank you. So He gives them this promise, this thing that they will be able to always see to constantly guide them. And we will equate that today with the gift of the Holy Ghost for us. And so here in this story, He uses this cloud, so they know what this is, they recognize it. And they're like, Oh, the cloud is moving with us? Okay. And here, it's going to help them in their journey. And so that's what we're reading of in (Ex 14:) 19 and 20. And when it says, "The angel of God", that's just another way of saying the Angel of Yahweh, or Jehovah himself. He is the cloud, He is the pillar of fire.

Becky Alder 35:58

I think like where it says the cloud was a darkness to them. But it gives light to these, it makes you think that maybe like there was smog, or there was something so that they couldn't see the people that were in front of them, even though they may have been kind of close in proximity. I just think it's very cool that it was a light to the Israelites, but darkness to the Egyptians.

Tammy 36:23

Thank you. I'm so glad you pointed that out. Because that is exactly what 'them and these' means. Awesome job, Becky. Thank you. Okay, then we have 21 and 22; I'll read those.

14:21 "And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground, and the waters were a wall into them on their right hand, and on their left."

Oh, that's so good. That's where I kind of put the cross reference that it could have been between 16 and 22 miles that they're going to begin to walk. So it's a long distance.

Sharmaine Howell 37:00

I like in verse 21, just the phrase "and the waters were divided", because it makes me think of the creation and how we don't know how this happened. We don't know, you know, anything about this ability of this, but it just reminds me of like the power of creation that God has, and He has that power. We don't know how it happened. But He knows because in the beginning, He divided the water, you know, so same thing.

Becky Alder 37:26

I'm markin' that. 'Power'. Oh so good. Thank you, Shar. Okay, Shar, will you please read for us in Exodus 14, verses 23 through 25.

Sharmaine Howell 37:36

23 "And the Egyptians pursued, and went in after them to the midst of the sea, even all Pharaoh's horses, his chariots, and his horsemen.

24 "And it came to pass, that in the morning watch, the Lord looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians,

25 "And took off their chariot wheels, that they drave them heavily: so that the Egyptians said, Let us flee from the face of Israel; for the Lord fighteth for them against the Egyptians."

Tammy 38:05

Okay, any thoughts or questions about those verses?

Becky Alder 38:09

Well I think it goes back to like when the plagues, how stubborn Pharaoh was for so many plagues, right? And so many problems that they had. And here's his fighters, right, his warriors. They can see that the Lord is fighting for the Israelites. That Pharaoh is still just being so stubborn. And so he's blindsided. Like he just wants revenge. Instead of listening and, and realizing, Okay, we are not going to win this one.

Tammy 38:41

Right. Oh, great insight, Becky.

Sharmaine Howell 38:44

And it also says in 24 in the morning watch. So you know, it started all through the night was up a little earlier. And now it's just an hour's, right? Hour is an hour

The morning, the morning watch would have been between 6 and 9am. Some scholars believe so, early. Yeah, early in the morning, there. I like that. Awesome. Okay, then let's finish this up, then. Becky, will you read verses 26-28?

Becky Alder 39:07

26 "And the Lord said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand over the sea, that the waters may come again upon the Egyptians, upon their chariots, and upon their horsemen.

27 "And Moses stretched forth his hand over the sea, and the sea returned to his strength when the morning appeared; and the Egyptians fled against it; and the Lord overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea.

28 "And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them."

Tammy 39:43

Oh, okay. And I will do these last four verses, but, circle that but because I do love this one.

29 "But the children of Israel walked upon dry land in the midst of the sea; and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand and on their left.

30 "Thus the Lord saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians; and Israel saw the Egyptians dead upon the sea shore."

Oh, that just gives you chills, doesn't it?

31 "And Israel saw that great work which the Lord did upon the Egyptians; and the people feared the Lord, and believed the Lord, and his servant Moses."

Okay, a couple of words I just want us to underline, look back in there, starting in verse 30. Underline "the Lord saved Israel that day." Okay, let's go to verse 31. And we're going to look for some action words in here. And as we find these action words, I want you to think, What do these words tell us about the hope we have for the Children of Israel? What good will come out of these action words? Here we go. Israel saw the great work. the people feared the Lord - and fear would mean 'to stand in awe or reverence of' - and they believed the Lord. So they saw, they feared, and they believe; what hope can we have for them moving forward now?

Becky Alder 41:00

Well, I think I think it's the process of kind of conversion, right? Like, you have to you have to see or experience something. I mean, faith is in there, too. But you have to see something. And then, what did you say fear, the fear is reverence or respect for God. So kind of believing in Him, and you know, the belief that He's going to be there and He's going to, I don't know. It's a humbling process for them too, that they have just been saved from this great thing.

Tammy 41:34

Great answer, great answer. I'm just writing down some things you said. What about you, Shar?

Sharmaine Howell 41:39

And then Becky, I think the faith comes in - it is, I love how it's a conversion to God and seeing His hand now in their life, right? And I think the faith for me came in in verse 19 and 20 when the pillar had been in front of them the whole time, and now the pillar's behind them. And so now they have to step into the Red Sea on dry ground, yeah. But on their own with these steps of faith going forward, right? And so, you know, the Lord's back there to protect and fight for them, and to catch them when they fall. Kind of makes me feel like the Lord's got my back, you know? But they had to take those steps of faith first to go in.

Tammy 42:15

And how incredible that none of this would have happened if they just gone up and around the sea. If they'd just, if the Lord just let them take the easy route, right? 'Well, you're right, it's gonna be too hard to cross that.' But the Lord knew; He knew clear back when he gave the Patriarchal Blessing to Moses, like, 'Oh, I've got things in store. I've got it all planned out, and it is going to be for the benefit of all of my children.' And I think we need to kind of think of our trials that way.

In fact, coming up, the Lord's gonna use the word 'proved'; he's going to prove his people. And 'proved' in Hebrew means 'to test or to try'. Like that's His objective is to test us and to try us to convert us. And I love how you said that. Becky, I wrote conversion next to those verses. And same with the verses you said Shar, to see, to fear, and to believe. So thank you, ladies for that discussion. Gosh, that was good. Okay. And in the next segment, let's see if it worked. Let's see if the children of Israel were converted.

Segment 4 43:05


Tammy 43:08

Okay, who are my singers out there, who likes to sing? And I'll take any kind: in the car, in the shower, a professional singer, church choir, anything? Are you two singers, you guys?

Sharmaine Howell 43:19

Nohohoho! No, Becky, you said yeah?

Becky Alder 43:21

Yes, I like to sing. You don't like to sing?

Sharmaine Howell 43:25

I don't mind it. That was one of my other fears I wrote down was, is singing in front of people. And then you know, you know our wonderful Children and Youth program.? I was helping my daughter plan one of her goals. And I said, What's something really tough that you want to do? Let's get it on here. And she said, I want to sing a solo in church with you, mom. And then I was like, Well, Let's not set our heights so high, honey. Like you really shouldn't do things that are that hard. Just pick something different.

Tammy 43:54

You! Go ahead and lower your standards there, Audrey.

Sharmaine Howell 43:57

So then now I'm singing this Sunday with Audrey in church; it's just terrible, but I'm like smiling and we're gonna do this for the Children and Youth program.

Tammy 44:08

Okay, that is sweet. And Beck, you like to sing. Do you sing in the shower? Do you sing all the time?

Becky Alder 44:14

I like to sing. I don't sing in the shower. I like to sing in the choir at church, although we haven't had a choir the last few years. So I'm looking forward to somebody doing the choir again. I don't even know who our choir director is. I don't know, I like music on. I like singing, like the other day we were driving and we had 90s Country because I'm a 90s Country person. And I know all the 90s Country songs, but you put on like current Country and I don't know any of the songs so. But I like the 90s.

Tammy 44:45


Becky Alder 44:46

Tammy I can see you being like a great karaoke singer, am I right?

Tammy 44:50

Oh sure. I love a good karaoke. Okay. Oh, yeah, yeah. Now listen, I'm not going to sing a solo or be in a choir even though my mother would love me to do that. I did sing growing up, listen to me, there's my true story. As a child, I was really good at singing. And I tried out for a singing group called "Small World Entertainers". We were kind of ambassadors for America; we went to Asia. We sang in China, and Thailand, and Disneyland like, it's a pretty big deal.

So I do have the skill and ability to sing. And now I'm just, I don't know. Sometimes I'll sing with my kids in the car. When we find a song we really like and I'll harmonize; we have a joke: my mom loves to harmonize. She would always sing the harmony no matter what song we are singing like, Def Leppard in the car and she'll find the harmony in that, so.

Sharmaine Howell 45:36

I love it.

Tammy 45:37

So true! She's a, she is such a good singer.

Sharmaine Howell 45:39

Oh, that's great.

Tammy 45:40

So, I want you to think about singing because, have you ever sung because you were so happy?

Sharmaine Howell 45:47

Yeah, I'm sure of it. Yeah.

Becky Alder 45:49

My favorite Disney ride is "It's a Small World."

Sharmaine Howell 45:52

That's a happy song.

Tammy 45:55

That is a happy song. Okay. Let's go into Exodus chapter 15. Because this, you guys, is a song. It's so cool. So we're gonna label it a couple of things. Exodus chapter 15 is called "The Song of the Sea", or it's also called "The song of Moses". Those are two titles. It is the very first song recorded in Scripture. Isn't that cool? The first song recorded in Scripture. It's one of the earliest examples of Israelite poetry in the Old Testament. It is believed to have been written by Moses, but some people contend that it was written by his sister. Well, I'm not sure, we don't know. But it's really cool because verses 1-19 are the actual - it's their song of triumph. Their song of their hands in the air, we did it, we're here.

So I asked the two of you to read through the song, verses 1-19. I wanted you to come prepared to share lyrics that stood out to you in this hymn or song. So what did you guys mark, tell me what you found?

Sharmaine Howell 46:53

I think that's awesome that this was the first song recorded. To be honest, like, as I read once through, I just couldn't stop picking out all the different little parts where they said in so many different ways how the Egyptians died. I was like, blown away. I'm like, how many times can we say this over and over? And I know that they are like, just in awe and amazement about what just happened, right? But it's like verse 5: "the depths covered them and they sank into the bottom as a stone." And you know, verse 6: they "hath dashed in pieces the enemy." And verse 7, because they were consumed as stubble.

And verse 8: "the floods stood upright as an heap," but they were just like going on. And then in verse 10: "they sank as lead." Like there's so many similes, or whatever it is, "they sink as lead in the mighty waters." And 12: "the earth swallowed them." They just can't get over that that just happened. There's so many different ways that they're saying it and kind of a little bit reminds me of "The Sandlot" movie, when they're explaining who Babe Ruth is and they're like, "the sultan of swat, the colossus of clout, the colossus of wow! - the Great Bambino!", you know. There're just like so many ways to say it.

And they were like, Oh, right. Like, these Egyptians, the Israelites are like, You won't even believe it. You know, they were, they died, they were smashed, they were as stubble, they were stone, They do, sink in the great deep, like, you'll never believe this! We are, like this happened, this actually just happened. So I thought that was pretty awesome. They are just like, so amazed at the Lord's power. And then what just happened in their life, right?

Tammy 48:33

Well, I'm thinking right now, I hadn't even had this thought until you went and mentioned this. If this is the very first song recorded in Scripture, I'm thinking just, I, well whatever, I don't know if it's true. But what if this was the only song they sang on Sundays? What, like every Sunday you get together to worship and this is the song you sing for generations and generations. They're gonna know that story,

Sharmaine Howell 48:53

"and they drowned as stone."

Tammy 48:54

Yeah, like let's remind, it's why I didn't know Christ came to America till I was in the MTC. We don't have a song about that. Like if I had to sing this, I would know the Egyptians - they die.

Sharmaine Howell 49:05

They died. And

Tammy 49:05

Let me tell you all the ways they died, like, let's remind our kids. Oh, I think that's really cool, Shar. Great things to point out..

Sharmaine Howell 49:12

And maybe it was their point of pointing out, you know, we were delivered. And so they were like, we were delivered. We had no possible thought of how it could have been happened, how it could have happened, but we were delivered. And you won't even believe it. But they were drowned in the sea, like that's how we were delivered, right?

Tammy 49:32

Oh, that is awesome.

Sharmaine Howell 49:33

I love that.

Tammy 49:34

Me too. Thank you for sharing those verses. Becky, what did you mark?

Becky Alder 49:40

I marked all of these verses that are opposite of what Shar marked.

Tammy 49:46

Well, that is awesome, because we didn't even plan that. What did you do?

Becky Alder 49:49

Like I mean, like in verse 2 it talks about "The Lord is my strength". This is like all the verses where the Lord has delivered them, like the Lord is my strength. He is my salvation. He is my God. In verse 6, "Thy right hand, O Lord, is become glorious in power. They're asking "Who is like unto thee, O Lord, among the gods, your glorious and holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?" And then in 13, "Thou in thy Mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed: thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation." So I can, it kind of just goes back to that thing about, you know, the Lord has saved us, He's redeemed us, He's delivered us. And if He can do it for something that's this large, He can do it for the small, smaller things as well.

Sharmaine Howell 50:43

And I liken, right after that one, Becky, in 14, it says, "The people shall hear, and be afraid:" And I think that's what they're trying to remember in this song. Like, you know, listen to this, listen to what just happened. And, you know, be afraid or be God-fearing. Respect him, because He can do this kind of stuff. Like this is huge. But He can do this. Right? Like He has that power.

Becky Alder 51:10

And I have a question, Tammy, because like, when I was thinking about this, I was like, they've been in Egypt for like, it's in Exodus 12 I think it said 430 years that they've been in Egypt. And like, in all that time, I don't think they had a prophet preaching to them.

Tammy 51:30


Becky Alder 51:30

And so whatever they had learned from before that time, obviously would be like, told and retold generation, generation. But it's very possible that these people didn't really have religious practices at this time when they were coming out of Egypt. And so this was something that, I mean, maybe it was something new. And some, like we talked about conversion, it's almost like they're just starting their religious journey and learning about God. And, you know, this is a big first way to learn about God. But

Tammy 52:02


Becky Alder 52:03

You know, it just kind of kept thinking about that, like, maybe they haven't believed in THE God, or maybe they were following some of the Egyptians gods for that time period. So they're, they're kind of learning who God is. And this,

Tammy 52:17

Oh, my gosh, Becky, okay. That is such a great point. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Here's a couple of cool verses that I read about. So I'm so glad you asked this. So in Genesis chapter 46, verses 3-4, go back to that story. This is when Joseph then invites his family to move with him into Egypt, and Jacob wants to know if that's something they should do. So he goes to the Lord, he prays about it, he offers a sacrifice. And the Lord says, Yes, go, and then He promises him something really cool. At the end of verse 4, He says, I will go down with thee into Egypt and I will also surely bring thee up again. There's some imagery there, like, I'm going to bring your people up again, and it's going to be hard, but I will, I just think that's so cool.

And now listen to this: something else I read that's so interesting, is there is a scholar, his name is M. H. Segal of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Now, he wrote that in Genesis chapter 50, verse 17, the sons of Jacob refer to themselves as, "The servants of the God of thy Father". Now what this means is, they refer to themselves as the servants of the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of their fathers. And this is going to be preserved down in the memory of the house of Israel. It's handed down throughout all the generations.

And I just think it's amazing because then Moses will say, at the burning bush, well, who am I going to say, sent me? Remember, we talked about, He said, my name is I am. But then the next verse says, Oh, and also Moses, make sure you say to them that you are the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, that's who sent you. And then that verse says, This is my name forever. And this is my memorial unto all generations. So the children of Israel would have heard Moses use that terminology, they would have been reminded of what they had been handed down throughout the generations.

And that's why God did not take them on the easiest route. He was reminding them of who they are, and who their God is. And so, oh, I just think it's so cool that you asked that question. It is awesome. And there was a lot of Egyptian culture that was going to be then mixed and mingled with the belief system that they already had. And we're going to see that later when they build the golden calf. So thank you, Becky. That was so cool. Okay, so the song ends.

And then we have Miriam, who was introduced in verse 20. She's the first female prophetess that we get to read about in Scripture. This is Moses, his brother, and sorry, Miriam is Moses' and Aaron's sister, we love her. She tells all of her friends, 'Get some timbrels, we're gonna sing and we're gonna dance', and they enjoy each other and they have a wonderful time. And then, in three days in the wilderness, in verse 22, they don't have any water. And the children of Israel start to murmur, in verse 24, because they're thirsty. And the water that is there is bitter and they call it Marah, in verse 23.

There's a cool connection here where in the story of Ruth, after Naomi loses her husband and two sons, she actually says My name is not Naomi anymore. My name is Marah. So she changes her name to 'bitter'. So just kind of keep that in memory.

But here it is, the waters, they call the waters of Marah because they're bitter. They can't drink them. And so the Lord, Moses goes to the Lord says, What are we going to do? How are we going to be able to have water for the people to drink? And Moses says, this really cool miracle in verse 25, puts a tree in the water and it heals it. And then in verse 26, He gives them an 'if and then statement'. This is the first time the Lord's teaching them what they need to do to be spared.

Verse 26, says, "If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, [There's a 'then' right here, then I will, so I just added 'then', but it's the then then] I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healer thee."

Like I'm going to take care of you, you just have to do this 'if'. Listen to me keep my commandments, and my statutes. Now they don't have commandments yet. They're coming. But he's prepping these these saints. He's prepping the children of Israel for what's about to come. And then verse 27. Okay, now when I first read this verse, I was like, Oh, that's a nice verse about where they sat and drank. But then, as I continued to study, I found some really cool symbols. And there is significance about verse 12. So I want to tell you what this is, it is awesome. Here we go.

Ex 15:27 "And they came to Elim, where were 12 wells of water, and threescore and 10 palm trees, and they encamped there by the waters."

So they have water to drink; but how cool, there's 12 wells. How many tribes are there? 12. So there's one well for every tribe to drink from. And then there are 70 palm trees. Now, this is so cool, because palm trees, why palm trees? Listen to this: oh, my gosh, I think this is neat. So traditionally, early Christians believed that the palm branch symbolized victory of the faithful over the enemies of the soul. Palm trees traditionally grow straight, they don't go windy, or twine or anything like that. They go really tall and really straight. And so that is a symbol of uprightness. And so the palm tree to these people is a symbol of ultimate triumph. And I just thought that was cool.

Like, here's the Lord, 'I'm going to set you under palm trees as a symbol of your triumph of my triumph for you over the Egyptians. And everybody gets a well.' And then the number 70 is so cool. And why 70? Because the number 70 in Hebrew, it symbolizes 'a perfect spiritual order carried out with all power'. I think that's cool. And it can also represent 'a period of judgment'. I mean, this all belongs to the number 70. Seven represents perfection, and the number 10 represents completeness and God's law. And so you combine those, and that's what you get with 70. So cool. And so here they are under 70, righteous stalwart palm trees.

And so I just think it's so cool. I mean, I love the scriptures. But that verse, I read it and I'm like, Oh, 12 wells, 70 palm trees, and chapter 16. But there's meaning behind where the Lord had them sit.

Sharmaine Howell 58:07

Well, it was a righteous victory, right?

Tammy 58:09

Oh, it totally was, what a great way to put that. So awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Okay. That's the end of that story. So then the children of Israel now are kind of hanging out. And we are going to find out in the next segment, something else that happens to them, and we'll see if their conversion is real.

Segment 5 58:26


Tammy 58:39

So here we go - we are in Exodus chapter 16, and one of the things that just keeps happening, and we saw it earlier in chapter 15, verse 24, the word murmur, and then it happens again, in Exodus chapter 16, verse 2. The whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness. Now Becky, you have thoughts on the word murmur, share it with us.

Becky Alder 59:00

Well, when I was thinking about this, and the Israelites murmuring, because they're in the wilderness, and they don't have water, and food and stuff. And I thought about, obviously, there's Laman and Lemuel in the Book of Mormon that also murmured a lot. But Laman and Lemuel were sons of a prophet, and they had religion and they had the Lord in their home. And they, so their, I think, I feel like their murmuring was just a little bit different, where the children of Israel didn't have religious practices. And maybe didn't have God in their lives quite as much as Laman and Lemuel and so their murmuring is, I don't know, I just feel like it's different. It's different from both sides.

Tammy 59:48

Yeah, well, and because they, their belief system was based on a lot of tradition, and what was handed down to them over the years. And so you can imagine after 430 years it probably would have gotten a little bit watered down, right? And so I've loved how this is changing the way we view them, because really, this is about a conversion process for them. And so of course, they're murmuring because, now look what the next problem is. Becky, read verse 3 for us.

Becky Alder 1:00:13

Ex 16:3 "And the children of Israel said unto them, Would to God, we had died by the hand of the Lord in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the flesh pots, and when we did eat bread to the full; for ye have brought us forth into this wilderness, to kill this whole assembly with hunger."

Tammy 1:00:30

They are hungry. 'Flesh pots' means 'meat', for those of you who are wondering, so you highlight. He's like, so they're talking about meat and bread. This made me laugh, because listen, my husband has a saying when my kids say they're SO hungry, I'm starving! And he laughs and be like, "Listen, you can live three days without water three weeks without food; you're going to be just fine." So I read this, I'm like, I wonder how long they'd gone without food. Because I know hunger. I might have been one of those murmuring like, 'When are we going to eat next,' right?

Sharmaine Howell 1:01:02

It's a big deal, though, like, What did you say, Becky? I didn't hear that.

Becky Alder 1:01:07

I assumed I would have been one of those, too. When I was little, I'd wake up and I was one always wondering what's for dinner? Like, I just want to know what's coming up. Like, what's the next meal gonna be like?

Tammy 1:01:18

Oh, I feel so much better now. Because that's what my kids do. The minute they wake up in the morning they're like, What's for dinner? I'm like, holy cow, we haven't even had breakfast yet. I don't know what I'm making for dinner. So then I had to start doing calendars so they can see, but then they see what we're gonna have and they complain, we don't want that. I'm like, I can't win.

Becky Alder 1:01:33

Just tell 'em food. That's what I say to my boys. What do we have for dinner? Food? That's, that's, that's what I say. There's gonna be food. I like

Tammy 1:01:42

I'm doing that: 'There's gonna be food.' I love that. Well, that's almost kind of what then Moses said. That's almost kind of what the Lord said to Moses, because Moses goes to the Lord and says, Well they're hungry, how are we going to feed them? Now remember, they took cattle with them. Right? They did have a means to provide for themselves a little bit. But they also needed those animals, we learned earlier, Moses tells them for sacrifices. So there's some rules with their animals, but they really need food. So in chapter 16, according to verses 13 and 15, what does the Lord provide for the children of Israel?

Sharmaine Howell 1:02:16


Becky Alder 1:02:17


Tammy 1:02:18

Um-hmm. And what did you notice in verse 13? That they get as a one-time bonus, a one-time gift?

Sharmaine Howell 1:02:23

The quails?

Tammy 1:02:24

Yes, that only happened once. He gives them meat. He's like, here's the quails for you.

Sharmaine Howell 1:02:29

Here's the dessert first,

Tammy 1:02:31

dessert first,

Sharmaine Howell 1:02:32

don't eat it too quick.

Tammy 1:02:34

And then I'm going to rain or cause dew on the land for manna. Let's mark verse 15. Shar read for 15 for us.

15 "And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the Lord hath given you to eat.

Highlight the name "manna"; the word manna - I think this is awesome - because manna in Hebrew literally means, what is it?

Right. Ma'n Hu. Ma'n Hu, like they're calling them manna, and they're really saying, "What is it?", because no one's seen it before. It's so unique. The description of what this manna is is found in verse, um

Becky Alder 1:03:12


Tammy 1:03:13

31. Thank you. Yes, the description of manna is found in verse 31. Becky read what manna is.

Becky Alder 1:03:18

31 "And the house of Israel called the name thereof manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey."

Tammy 1:03:27

I'm thinking like a graham cracker, maybe.

Becky Alder 1:03:29

Maybe. Sounds sweet.

Tammy 1:03:31

I could live off of graham crackers, you bet. Sounds awesome. But here's what's unique about manna. And I asked you two to help me out with this. Because there were rules with the manna, so it wasn't a free for all. It wasn't just going to rain down like "Sunny, With a Chance of Meatballs" movie, if anyone's ever seen that.

Sharmaine Howell 1:03:49

Cloudy. Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs." Obviously you've never seen it.

Tammy 1:03:56

I have! Yes, that's exactly it. It's not like that movie. There are specific rules. So what are the rules, you guys? What rules did you come up with that the Lord gave to the children of Israel when it comes to collecting manna?

Sharmaine Howell 1:04:10

Well, in verse 26, it said, "Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the Sabbath, in it there shall be none." So it's only going to come on those days. And they're supposed to gather it on those days, right? And so that they don't have to gather it on Sunday.

Tammy 1:04:26

Exactly. What are the, Becky, did you notice, tho, what are the rules about how much they can gather each day?

Becky Alder 1:04:32

I'm in verse 16 and in 18, it just says, "gather every man according to his eating." So I would think that every person would gather only the amount that they need for the day, and then it also said that they need to eat it before the next morning,

Tammy 1:04:53

Or what would happen, in verse 20?

Becky Alder 1:04:55

They would get worms.

Tammy 1:04:57

They would get worms and stink; so if they gathered too much It wouldn't last. Very good. So isn't that interesting in light of then, Shar, what you brought up? Because then the Lord commands them, on Saturday, Oh, gather more. You have to gather enough for two days. And what do you think the children of Israel were thinking? Well, wait a minute. You just said if we did that it would stink and turn into worms. And so now the Lord, what is He doing with the children of Israel here?

Sharmaine Howell 1:05:23

Well, first, it seems like He's teaching them the Sabbath Day,

Tammy 1:05:27

which, by the way, has not been mentioned or talked about since the Creation. Okay, so mark that.

Sharmaine Howell 1:05:32

because I want to ask you that. I'm like, do they know what that means?

Tammy 1:05:36

No, highlight it

Sharmaine Howell 1:05:36

The Sabbath Day, that's interesting.

Tammy 1:05:39

Yeah. In fact, highlight that in verse 28, because this is so fascinating. He teaches them, "Six day shall ye gather". In verse 26. He says, "Six days, shall ye gather, but on the seventh", this is the first mention of the Sabbath Day observance since the Creation. Yeah, so cool.

Becky Alder 1:05:56

Well, and if you go back to verse 4, in chapter 16, it says, at the end that, "that I may prove them whether they will walk in my law, or no."

Tammy 1:06:06

And we learned that 'prove' means to test or to try. So what's He saying here?

Becky Alder 1:06:10

Testing them, like, are you going to follow the law? They may not know, there's no commandment yet, but this is a law coming from God. And will you follow it or not?

Tammy 1:06:20

I think this is really interesting thinking about what we've been talking about with conversion. And I do believe that the Israelites did know God before. They did know Him in Egypt, because they were praying to Him, right?

Mm hmm. Absolutely.

Sharmaine Howell 1:06:35

But it does seem like He's teaching them who He really is and what He wants them to do now going forward. Right?

Tammy 1:06:42


Sharmaine Howell 1:06:42

Like He is a God who will deliver them. And He is Almighty and powerful. And so now they're singing about that, because they know it now.

Becky Alder 1:06:48

Maybe when they were in Egypt, they just didn't see His hand very often. Right? Like, and now He's showing his hand in big ways. But yeah, maybe they just didn't see it or notice that He was there.

But I thought they were limited, that they were limited in their ability to practice what they preach. That the Egyptians really had their thumb on them and so that they couldn't. They were not allowed to observe sacrifices. That was one of the requests from Moses is, he says to the pharaoh, 'will you just let us leave for three days to go and offer sacrifices? We'll even come back. Like, we just want to go and start this again. And we want to offer sacrifices to the Lord. And that's why Pharaoh often says, 'Who is this Lord? What are you talking about?' So I wonder if they were really limited in how they could observe.

Sharmaine Howell 1:07:31

That's super interesting. And now that they're out in the wilderness they are, it just looks like God is giving them little bits at a time, like this is what I want you to do. Right? Let's start with, I'm going to provide for you every day, and you're going to trust Me that it will be there again the next day, right? So let's start with trust, because you can't build a relationship with someone you don't trust. And so He's like, Me and you, we're going to be in relationships from here on out, and you're going to obey commandments from Me, and you're going to make covenants with Me. But you're not going to really be able to do that if you don't trust Me. And so every day, I will show you that you can trust Me no matter what.

Becky Alder 1:08:10

That's a big learn for each of us.

Tammy 1:08:14

It really is, because now I'm thinking in my own life, what is my manna? What is my little bit that the Lord's giving me that I'm like, really? Do I trust that? I got chills when I'm thinking about that. Because everyone's got their own manna, right? I mean, what are you thinking about right now ladies? Do you have a manna?

I think for me, and it was interesting, because I was talking to Erica, who is our producer. And Erica is not married, she's single. She's of marrying age. And she just got back from a really cool trip. And I said, Oh, my gosh, do trips, do single well. If there's any advice I can give you just go travel and enjoy your time; you will get married, it's gonna turn out fine. And I said, that's one of my things I did when I was single, I have no regrets. I traveled, I saw the world. And then I said, Actually, I do have one regret. My regret is: I worried so much about getting married, like too much. I didn't trust.

In all the miracles of my life, in all the wonderful things the Lord had shown me, that was the one place where I'm like, Yeah, but, maybe; if not in this life, maybe the next. Like, we hear that saying all the time. But I had so many things and so many blessings and Patriarchal Blessing that said I would get married and I just didn't trust. And that's my regret. I wish I would have really believed that the Lord would be good on His word. And so every day I was just trying to pick up little pieces of manna by going to church, going to the temple, paying my tithing, fasting on Sundays, believing that it really would come true. So,

Sharmaine Howell 1:09:40

I like that.

Tammy 1:09:41

That's my example.

Sharmaine Howell 1:09:43

As you were talking, it made me think that I feel like my manna is trusting in the Lord, that He can make me into something better. And I don't know if that makes sense. But I'm sure throughout the last two years that I've been on this podcast, it maybe has come across that sometimes I lack self-confidence and, you know, question and doubt and wonder, Am I good enough? And I think I've said that maybe a handful of times, but every time I get off recording one of these with you, I'm like, dang it. Why did I act like I was such a dork? And that I don't believe in myself because I truly, I truly do believe in myself.

But it's always been something where I have to trust that the Lord is able to make me into something more than I am and stronger than I am. And just each day getting up being like, you know, I don't feel like I'm good enough. But I trust that God can make me better. And so I don't know why I've always dealt with that little bit of, of doubt, you know, over the years. And now I know, it's Satan that just he can get to us pretty easily to doubt ourselves. Right? And so mine is trusting that I can be better, and that the Lord has something better for me in the future. And trusting that I, you know, I'm good enough right now, as well.

Tammy 1:10:31

You made me think of, and to hold your peace. Like to not listen to any of those other voices cuz

Sharmaine Howell 1:11:08


Tammy 1:11:08

He, you're His favorite. He thinks you're the greatest!

Sharmaine Howell 1:11:14

I love that.

Tammy 1:11:16

He thought that about the children of Israel, they are the greatest. That's what, I mean, I can't wait till we start talking in a couple of weeks - that's why He gave them the Melchizedek priesthood. He thought they were ready for it. He thought so highly of them, He's like, I'm gonna give you everything. And then when He realized, Oh, you're not ready, all right. He didn't even, like as a parent, you would start with a little thing and then give them something better. You wouldn't give him the grand prize first ,and the Lord's like, No, I'm giving the big, Grand prize to the children of Israel. He thinks so highly of

Sharmaine Howell 1:11:43

The biggest Christmas present first.

Tammy 1:11:42

Yeah, exactly. And, totally 100%. And He doesn't; He gives it to 'em because He thinks more of them than they did of themselves. Ah, it's so great, Shar. Thank you for sharing that. What about you Beck?

Becky Alder 1:11:44

I appreciate you sharing that, because I think that there are so many women, and probably men too, but I hear it more from women that they are so worried that they're not a good enough mother, that they're not good enough wife, or disciple or whatever. And so I appreciate you sharing that, because it's real for a lot of people. And you know, I think if you are putting forth your best effort, it's good enough. Like, and God is taking that effort and, you know, and we can't compare, because what, you know, next-door neighbor is doing is not going to be the same as what I'm doing. And, and that's okay. And we have to be okay with our effort and our leadership ability and our mothering ability. And, and all of that.

My manna, I guess is, I guess kind of similar, but I worry about my family and have I taught them? But I, in the last five years or so we've had some experiences with our older boys. And I have just had to really, really just rely on the Lord and just be like, I'm gonna place my burden at Your feet and takes a lot of trust. And I just have to walk away because the choices that my children make, or the people around me make, I can't really influence those, but I can do my best for me.

And I just think like Tammy, like you said, I'm going to church, I'm reading my scriptures, I'm going to the temple, I'm trying to do these little bits and pieces to keep myself close to the Lord. And then I'm laying everything else at the feet of my Savior and believing that He is going to take care of the rest in whatever way that might be, in whatever timing that might be. So, just have to trust; trust is a big one.

Tammy 1:13:59

Absolutely. Oh, Becky, thank you. Both of you. Thank you for your answers. Those were so brilliant and perfect. And so I want us to look really quickly at verse 16. And then we're going to end here. Because I thought it was interesting that the Lord tells them to gather an omer for every man. And an omer is about three pints, which equals six cups per person, if that's what they were going to gather. And in my mind I'm thinking about this whole conversation that we're having, where the Lord fills our cups. Every morning you, but you had to go out and do the work to fill that cup. And you filled it and it was exactly what you needed for the day. And then at the end of the night, it was empty.

And then you rested your weary head and you woke up the next day, and you had to fill your cup again. And it took faith to do that. And there is a direct connection between faith and works. And we are going to see another incredible story about faith and works in the next segment. I can't wait to share this with you.

Segment 6 1:14:54


Tammy 1:14:59

Okay, let's go right into Exodus chapter 17, the very end of verse 1, and tell me what problem do the children of Israel have?

Becky Alder 1:15:06

No water.

Tammy 1:15:08

No water to drink, so they go to Moses. And the people murmur, in verse 3. And they're asking, and again, there's that saying, Shar. Read for us in verse 3 what the children of Israel ask.

Sharmaine Howell 1:15:19

17:3 "And the people thirsted there for water; and the people murmured against Moses, and said, Wherefore is this that thou hast brought us up out of Egypt, to kill us and our children and our cattle with thirst?"

Now we're gonna die of thirst?

Tammy 1:15:32

We're gonna die of hunger and now we're thirsty, right? And so the Lord tells them, Moses, exactly what to do. Moses goes to him, in verse 4, and says, Help, Lord. What are we going to do? And then in 5-6 is the instruction. Becky, read 5-6.

Becky Alder 1:15:45

5 "And the Lord said unto Moses, Go on before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go.

6 "Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel."

Tammy 1:16:11

Okay, awesome. So they get their water. Again, Moses has control over the waters. So cool,

Sharmaine Howell 1:16:16

I know, I love that.

Tammy 1:16:17

Then we go to verse 7. And this is great. I like verse 7. It says, "And he called the name of the place Massah and Meribah. And it's interesting, highlight those names, because he names them after what they did. MASSAH in Hebrew means 'testing or trying'. And MERIBAH in Hebrew means 'strife or complaint'. So I think it's just crazy, like, 'And you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to name this place after what the Lord is trying to do to you because you won't stop complaining.' And now they have another problem, because there is an army.

There is a tribe of people that want to fight the children of Israel. And they are led by a man by the name of Amalek, in verse 8. Underline his name. Amalek is the grandson of Esau, going back to Jacob and Esau; he's related through that line, and he and his people, they are the most powerful race in the peninsula. So this is a big group of people that are coming up against the children of Israel. They should be worried, this is going to be scary. So Moses calls for some help. Look at verse 9 and tell me in verse 9, who does Moses ask to help summon up an army?

Sharmaine Howell 1:17:18


Tammy 1:17:19

Joshua, no, this is the first time his name is mentioned in Scripture. And this is so cool. He will actually be the successor of Moses, which I love. Joshua will be Moses' successor. He's kind of being prepared here as a leader. And Moses says, 'Alright, go and find the men who will fight for us. And tomorrow, I'm going to stand on top of a hill and I'm going to hold the rod of God in my hand.' And I wonder if Joshua was like, Come again?

Sharmaine Howell 1:17:44

Yeah, that's what I thought actually. 'You're gonna make me go down to fight and you're gonna go up on the hill? Like, I'll take the hill. You take the low ground.'

Tammy 1:17:52

Let me take the stick. Exactly. I'll go do whatever you were gonna do

Sharmaine Howell 1:17:56

I'm a little stronger than you, I'll hold the stick.

Tammy 1:17:58

I've got great forearms. Exactly. Because they believe, now listen, Moses is really old. He's well over 80 years old, almost into his hundreds. And they believe that Joshua would have been around his 40s. So he's, he's young. And Moses is like, 'Yeah, okay. Go find the army, and we're gonna fight this war.' So then in verse 10, Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek. And Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill. So highlight those three names: Moses, Aaron and Hur. We have to know that he went up with two people, because here's what Moses had in mind. And I think the Lord told him what to do. The solution to solving this whole war and problem is found in verses 11 and 12. Shar, will you please read those two verses for us.

Sharmaine Howell 1:18:45

11 "And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when you let down his hand, Amalek prevailed.

12 "But Moses' hands were heavy, and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun."

Tammy 1:19:07

Thank you. Beck, can you put that into modern-day terms for those who are listening? What did Aaron and Hur do?

Becky Alder 1:19:12

They pretty much just supported Moses. I mean, yeah, they were holding his arms. But you know, I've been a president of an organization in the church before and having two counselors to support me is crucial. So they stood by his side and supported him how they could.

Tammy 1:19:35

And look at the very end of verse 12. How long did they do it?

Sharmaine Howell 1:19:38

All day long.

Tammy 1:19:39

Okay, Becky. I really like what you just shared, especially that you used the word supported because here's my favorite thing about this story. In verse 12 highlight, underline, mark the word 'steady'. This word is crucial to the story. It says that Moses' hands were steady, but why were they steady? Well, because Aaron and Hur. Aaron and Hur made them steady. And in Hebrew is EMUNAH. And I think this is cool because Emunah means 'faith'. But the root word to Emunah is Aman, which means 'to support or to give support'.

Now it's going to reframe the way we think of faith, because oftentimes we say, Oh, I have faith in God. And whenever we say that we automatically are thinking like, Well, God will help me because I have faith in him, right? If you have faith in someone, it's your, you have faith that they're going to do something for you. We're going to reframe that way. We say I have faith in something because when we say I have faith in God, what we really want to say is, Oh, I will support God. I will do what I need to do to help this situation.

The children of Israel did that. They went out and picked up their magnet and put it in the cups. That was their action, supporting their faith that God was going to help them. Here we have Moses, Moses didn't stay up his arms. It was the support of Aaron and Hur on each side. It was their faith, that by holding up these arms they were going to win the war, right? Yes, it was the action of Aaron and Hur, and because of Aaron and Hur's action, because of Aaron and Hur's faith and support. Let's read verse 13. Becky, will you read that for us.

Becky Alder 1:21:16

13 "And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword."

Tammy 1:21:22

I wrote at the end of that: THEY WON in big caps. It made me think because then I was like, you know what? Maybe when I say I have faith in God, another way to think of it is: I will do what I can to firmly support God. James chapter 2:14, says, "Faith without works is dead." That's what this is talking about. Like, we have to be able to support God, by doing what He told the children of Israel to do clear back when they were at that 12 wells with the 70 palm trees. If you will keep My commandments and obey My covenants and do everything I'm asking you to do, I am going to help you. I'm going to fight your battles. And that's exactly what He did.

So there's this beautiful connection between faith and support. And Becky, I like how you said that you have counselors who support you. Because they have faith in your ability to be the president of that organization and they're going to support you as you do that.

Becky Alder 1:22:16

Yes. And it's, it's important to have good people by your side.

Tammy 1:22:21

So important. So I honestly kind of just think about this, because then we go back, go back to verse 7. Is the Lord among us or not? And so here's what I want to know: how does having emunah, how does having faith answer that question? Is the Lord really among us or not? What would your answer be in connection to faith?

Becky Alder 1:22:43

I, I would probably say, like faith is my favorite, like, I love Alma 32, and the and the other chapters after that, because it's all about seeds. And I love gardens. And so things are a big thing to me. Like, I'm, I'm growing seeds in my basement right now. And I just think it's so amazing that this tiny little thing can go in the dirt, have a light on it, and I've got these little tiny seedlings, and then I will put them in my garden once it's warm enough, and then they will grow me vegetables and fruits and different things. And, you know, faith, faith has to start small. And, you know, if I've got a child who's wondering if the Lord is there, you know, and you're trying to talk about faith, you know.

I, I often just say, you know, like, look around. Like, I believe that God is there because of the creations that are everywhere, like, out in my garden, the sun in the sky, the, I mean, just the beauties that are everywhere. Like, I believe in that creation, and I believe that God made all of these things. I'm not sure why he made mosquitoes, but, you know, like, everything else is good. But, um, you know, like, I think you have to look at the small things with faith first. And, you know, maybe that's like putting good people in, in your children's lives. And just like the little things, they just have to be able to see the little things because sometimes the big things don't come along for years and years, you know, so you got to be able to see the small things.

Tammy 1:24:25

Well, I just heard you though, all the action words you used to describe your faith. Like you planted the seed, and then it's going to grow, and you're going to go plant it out in your yard, and you're going to water it, and you're going to pull the weeds. Like, look at all the work that you're doing to cultivate that little seed of faith. You can totally see how much work it requires; you're supporting this little faith to grow. And so I love that connection that you just made. Like a seed just doesn't grow on its own, it takes so much effort and work by the person who planted it. So wow, so cool. Thank you. Shar, what about you?

Sharmaine Howell 1:24:58

Sometimes it's hard when you're having faith, to just keep waiting, right? And what I just loved, I love that verse 11, where it said, you know, when he held up his hands that Israel prevailed, and I loved how we learned from the prophet that that the name Israel means 'let God prevail'. So that made me think of that, and how, you know, we have to have faith in Him. But we also have to give up our will to Him to let Him do what He knows needs to happen in our life. And that is, that is the fine line of it being very hard. Right?

And, you know, when kids see, you know, people struggling, or families going through trials, and they're like, I just don't get it. Like, we've been praying for this to be solved for years and it's not happening. So is God really listening to us? Right? Is He really among us or not? And I think that's the hard part of letting God prevail in our life is knowing that I'm going to give my support to God, to let Him keep working in my life, and to let Him continue to prevail and continue to provide for me the manna that I need each day. And it's just, it's just really hard when you feel like you have to just keep waiting for that one day. Right? But I think it's, you know, we can keep holding on, we can keep having faith.

Tammy 1:26:25

I think that is incredible. Thank you, both of you for your answers. Beautiful answers. I mean, that kind of wraps it all up right here. I think it's so cool, because after they win the war, though, we just have to highlight this verse, because I think it goes beautifully with what we both said. Look at Verse 15. After they win the war, it says, "And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it JEHOVAH-NISSI. And the footnote down below tells us what that means. In Hebrew, 'The Lord is my banner'. And what this means is that the inscription on the banner is Jehovah, with like an exclamation point.

And what I love about this so much is thinking of the moments in my life when they were so victorious that I could put Jehovah on a banner and wave it outside of my home. Like we all have those moments. We all have those moments where Jehovah is our banner. We wouldn't have gotten through this without Him, we wouldn't have been able to do this without Him. He is on our banners that we will fly, and we will speak of Jesus. I think of my friend Tamu. She has Jesus in almost every conversation. Jehovah- nissi. Like, Jehovah is on Tamu's banner.

And I think that's so incredible about this year, because we will see story after story, where Jehovah is the banner of everyone we study. So I think this word is so powerful. In fact, I'm going to ask, maybe on social media, if anyone would be willing to share their Jehovah-nissi moments. Go to Facebook and just share your story if you can, because we all have them. When would you just exclaim Jehovah, or put on a banner? I think that'd be so cool to hear from some of you, so please share that.

Okay, so gather your thoughts, and let's all share our takeaways from today.

Becky Alder 1:28:05

I loved, and I don't even know which one of you said it, but referring to the manna, the Lord fills our cup each day, if we are willing to go out and do the work. And, you know, I, I know this that, you know, we can't just sit around like a bump on the log and expect the Lord to make things happen for us. That just is not how it works, we have to turn to Him, we have to put forth effort. And you know, like, like, Moses told the people, Move forward, like go forward in your life. And you have to put forth the effort. But I just love that: that now in my day, the Lord will fill my cup each day if I am willing to put forth effort to go out with my cup to get it full. So, I really liked that.

Tammy 1:28:58

Very great takeaway. Wow, that was good. Thank you, Becky. How about you, Shar?

Sharmaine Howell 1:29:04

I love the part when you taught us 'but hold your peace' means. That just really hit with me. I like it means to be silent or deaf to the voices around us, and don't let that cloud our minds, and let God keep fighting for us. So, that just really spoke to me today.

Tammy 1:29:21

Wow. Thank you. Thanks for sharing those, both of you. Your takeaways were great. Um, my takeaway came from both of you and it was a very aha moment for me. Becky, you were talking about how it was a moment of conversion. Like I, I've never considered that this whole journey was about conversion for the children of Israel. That just reframed my thoughts about the children of Israel - that they probably didn't have all the information that they needed or that we assumed that they had. And so no wonder they murmured, and the Lord did these incredible things because He was helping to convert them and get them where He needed them to be.

And then Shar, I loved when you said that manna built a relationship of trust. I'd never considered that before like, Are you sure this is gonna work? I don't know. Well, we'll just hope for the better the next, let's just hope it works tomorrow. And I think so many of us can relate to that, like, boy, I hope this works tomorrow. And so I thought that was great, it did build a relationship of trust. And that is where we are in this story is, we're just at the beginning stages. And so now we kind of understand why they had to wander for 40 years.

And if we think about Moses, like, some people believe he was 40 when he escaped from Pharaoh after when killed the Egyptian. And then it's believed that he spent 40 years learning about the Lord; 40 years to become a prophet, the Lord was talking to him, because he won't go to Pharaoh until he's 80 years old. And so that's a lot. I mean, we know what '40' means in Hebrew. Forty could be really 40 years or it could mean the amount of time it takes for a test or a trial in your life to learn from it. Whatever it means, we're all in our 40s, right?

Sharmaine Howell 1:30:51

I wish I was back in my 40s.

Tammy 1:30:53

Shar, you're not that old yet. But really, we're all in our 40s and we're all trying to learn what the Lord needs us to learn. So let that sit with you. You're okay, you don't have to be perfect right now. You're just in your 40s, so enjoy it. I wish I was because then my back wouldn't hurt so much, so.

I love you guys. Thank you so much for joining us, that was so fun! Well, I hope all of you have a great takeaway from this episode. So, if you haven't joined our discussion group, go to Facebook, sign up, and sign up to Instagram. And if you're just worried about it, it's okay, just follow us. That's all you have to do. It's a great place to ask questions as you study, on Facebook, Instagram. I try to answer them throughout the week and then so does this community, this incredible community. And then at the end of the week, on a Saturday, we ask for your big takeaway. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson, and let us know what you learned. I read all of them. It's my favorite part of Sunday.

You can get to our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on LDS And you can also go there because that's where we have the links to the references, to the Scriptures we used, plus a complete transcript of this whole discussion. If you're looking to teach it, go use all of these resources.

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshop Plus Original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our incredible study group participants were Sharmaine Howell and Becky Alder, and you can find more information about my friends at LDS on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Erika Free and me; it is recorded and mixed by Mix at Six Studios, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.

Thanks for being here, we'll see you next week. And I hope you remember to 'hold your peace', because you are God's favorite!

Sharmaine Howell 1:32:37

The movie you were talking about, is it the Moses movie?

There's two: the old school Moses movie: "Ten Commandments", and then "The Prince of Egypt".

"The Prince of Egypt", right. And you cannot talk about this without singing (sings) "Many nights we prayed". Right? I mean, it's just constantly circling my head this whole time.

Becky Alder 1:33:00

I thought so.

Tammy 1:33:01

I LOVE that movie. No, we're watching it as a family when we cover this because it, but I will make them read the verses first. The book is always better. So, read the book as a family

Sharmaine Howell 1:33:10

Well, you're gonna have to prove to me that the book is better because that movie is pretty dang good.

Tammy 1:33:14

Okay, game on. Let's do this!