18: “I Am the Good Shepherd” (John 7–10)

Tammy 0:00

What do you need in your life to feel that you are protected? Do you need money? Do you need a roof over your head? What about heat? Maybe it’s air conditioning? That’s mine. Family? Religion? What is it that makes you feel protected?

This week’s study of John 7-10 is about being protected and what we al need to feel safe. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study group, brought to you by Deseret Bookshelf Plus, where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I’m your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now if you’re new to our study group I just want to make sure you know how to use this podcast. So follow the link in our description. It’s going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study, just like my friends Susan Splann & Jeannette Thompson from the Widow/Widowers Conference. Hi guys. I’m so glad I got to meet you; you are lovely. Now, another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, and so it's always a little bit different each week. And today is different. You guys, we have 2 women; they are sisters-in-law and they are joining us all the way from Norway! Hi ladies.

Monica 26:38

Hi.

Karina 26:38

Hello, Tammy

Tammy 0:19

So we have Karina Westby and Monica Westby. Now, here’s what I want you to do: tell us a little bit about you, what city you’re from and all that fun stuff.

Karina 0:41

I can start. I’m Karina and I’m from Drammen, just 30 min outside of Oslo in Norway. And I work as a cook in a health facility and I love my job and I’m an aunt to 6 wonderful nieces and nephews. And love my family and like hiking and being outdoors.

Tammy 1:55

Perfect. What about you Monica? Tell us about you.

Monica 1:58

Well, I’m 50 years old, I’m married to Karina’s elder brother. I have 2 kids; one boy and one girl and they are 23 and 21 next month.

Tammy 2:11

Wow

Monica 2:11

At the time being, I’m just staying home because of health issues, but, yeah. I love to go for long walks up in the mountains, everywhere in the fresh air and God’s free nature.

Tammy 2:29

Wow, in Norway, for sure. Well, and listen, and for those listening, you’re gonna want to go and check out their bios and look at their pictures, because these women do not look over 50. I don’t know if it’s the water or the soap that you’re using because when they both told me their age I was like, What! No way! So. They are so beautiful. I am excited about today. And then I asked them because English is their 2nd language, so do you guys want to say anything or any shout out to friends or family in Norwegian?

Monica 26:38

Do you want to go, Karina?

Karina 3:04

You can do it.

"……………

..."

Tammy 3:17

Oh my gosh. That was awesome, so cool. Okay, you guys, I am excited for today’s episode. These 2 women I have met through the years over the podcast and I just, they’re going to have some really great insights and I am so excited to jump into John chapter 7-10. So grab your scriptures, your scripture journal and something to mark them with, and let’s dig in.

Okay, you two. I started out with a question about being protected and I want to know. What do you need in your life to be protected? What makes you feel safe?

Karina 3:47

For me, a safe place to live, to call home and I’m like, thinking like practical, like sun block in the summer and warm clothes in the winter. And when I go on walks I use a huge reflector jacket ‘cuz I like to be seen in the dark. But I also like to protect my emotional well-being by having good friends around me that protects me and stands up for me and support me, then makes me feel safe. That’s important to me.

Tammy 4:32

Ooh, I like that you just said that. I hadn’t even considered emotional protection. I’m glad that you brought that in. That is awesome. What about you, Monica? What makes you feel protected or safe?

Monica 26:38

Well, it’s much of the same things. But a home and my family – that’s most important to me. You know, food on my table, a door I can close so I can be safe from the weather or strangers or sales people. And also I feel protected by my covenants. And I like to stand on holy places. So I feel protected if I have a church or a temple nearby.

Tammy 5:22

Oh my goodness. I felt those were really great answers about ways to feel protected. Thank you for sharing those. The reason I wanted to have this discussion about feeling protected is because, I brought a picture. And this picture is a physical representation of protection in the Jewish community, so I want to show you this picture. For those of you listening, go to the Show Notes. I took this picture when I was in Israel and it was at the tail end of the Sukkot celebration or the Feast of the Tabernacles. And it was really neat, because everywhere throughout Jerusalem families build what are called Sukkahs. So, ladies, if you look at this picture, you’ll notice down in the bottom right-hand corner, do you see what looks like white sheets hanging from a flat roof? Those 2 little things, those are sukkahs. And then look up on the roof above there, do you see, again, white sheets hanging from a little flat roof?

Monica 26:38

Yeah

Tammy 26:38

So these are called sukkahs. And they also put them on their terrace. So go to the 2nd building and if you look at the 2nd bldg., the 2nd floor, there’s that white sheet again that’s hanging. So the idea of this - I think this is really interesting - because the whole idea for these sukkahs, or this festival sukkot, is the celebration of being protected in the Jewish community. And it sets the tone, and the whole idea of the setting for our discussion today in John chapter 7. Turn with me to John chapter 7 and we’re going to look at verse 1 and verse 2. So here we go. John 7:1 & 2. And Karina, can you please read these 2 verses for us.

Karina 26:38

John 7:1 “After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him. 2: “Now the Jews’ feast of tabernacles was at hand.”

Tammy 26:38

Okay. I’m just curious. Do either one of you know what it means when it says "feast of tabernacles at hand"?

Karina 26:38

No, I had to google it.

I didn't know.

Tammy 26:38

I think most listeners are like, ‘Feast of tabernacles, what is that?’ Oh, that’s awesome.

Monica 26:38

Now I know.

Tammy 26:38

Yeah. I’m gonna tell you a little bit about this feast because it’s super important for this setting of what’s going on and why Jesus is in Judea. So the Jews’ Feast of Tabernacles, that means at this time that the Savior, and when it says in verse 1 “he would not walk in Jewry,” what Jewry means is Judea. He wouldn’t walk in Judea because the Jews were seeking to kill Him. But it was during this big festival of the tabernacles. Now what this looks like and the reason why I showed you these pictures of these coverings, is the Feast of Tabernacles. Families build forts or huts or tents, like I showed you in that picture. They eat in these tents; they celebrate in these tents for an entire week. This comes at the tail end of Yom Kippur, which is their Day of Atonement. And what they’re celebrating in these tents is the exodus of the children of Israel and the goodness of God as He protected the children of Israel in the wilderness for 40 years. So that’s what the whole point of these sukkahs are, to remember how God protected their people while they were traveling in the wilderness.

Okay, now as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we don’t formally celebrate this Holy day – I wish we would – but it’s o.k. We still believe that Jesus Christ is the proverbial sukkah, or tabernacle in our lives. Like, He offers us protection and throughout our discussion, we’re going to see all the many ways that He does this for us as we study our Come, Follow Me lesson. And I think it’s really powerful that Christ protects us and all the ways that He does it.

So they are celebrating that their ancestors were covered and that they were protected.

Now this is a really big deal. It’s a really big deal. Because when I was in Jerusalem I was getting food at this little restaurant and I heard a man ordering and he was speaking Hebrew. I didn’t understand anything he said. I did understand when he spoke English to his son. I said, Oh, you speak English! And he’s like, Yeah. And then he had this Chicago accent. And I go, ‘Where are you from?’ And he says, ‘I’m from Chicago.’ And I asked what he was doing there in Jerusalem and he said, ‘Oh, I’m here for the Holy Days. I have been here the whole time celebrating with my family Yom Kippur and now we’re finishing up with the Feast of Tabernacles.’ So it’s a really important holiday to their families. It’s a very important holiday at the time of Jesus. So families get together to celebrate, which now leads us to John 7:3. Monica, will you please read verse 3 for us.

Monica 26:38

John 7:3 “His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.”

Tammy 26:38

So in verse 3 circle the word ‘brethren.’ And what we want to know is this literally is his brothers, his family brothers, not brothers in the gospel. And they’re telling Him, You should just come, come with us. It’s going to be fun. And He’s like, No. He has a complete conversation with them in verses 3-8 saying I can’t come. And His brothers didn’t fully understand. Look at verse 5, it says, “For neither did his brethren believe in him.” Like, even Christ’s brothers didn’t fully understand who He was or believe in Him. So they’re like, just come with us to the festival and the Savior would not come. He’s like, I’m going to stay, you guys just go ahead. Because the problem is the Jews started to already have opinions of who Jesus Christ was. And let’s go to verse 12 and we’re going to underline what those opinions are. And Karina will you read verse 12 for us.

Karina 26:38

12: ”And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people.”

Tammy 26:38

Alright. So underline those 2 opinions. “He is a good man.“ And what is the other one?

Karina 26:38

“He deceiveth the people.”

Tammy 26:38

Very good. Um-hmm. So it’s interesting to me because - we skipped this verse for a reason - in verse 10 it says, “But when his brethren were gone up, then went he (Jesus Christ) also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.” So He decides, ‘Okay, I’m going to go, but I’m going to be quiet about this.’ So in the next segment we are going to find out if Jesus was found, and if He was protected when He went up.

Segment 2 26:38

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Tammy 26:38

Let’s go to John 7:14 and find out, did they catch Jesus, did they find Him? Monica, can you read verse 14.

Monica 26:38

14: “Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.”

So, was He worried about being caught?

I think He was. But still He went into the temple and He knew people were going to see Him there. But He probably wanted to take a sneaky entrance.

Tammy 26:38

Excellent. Yes. And I think it’s interesting in verse 14 that He goes up to teach, and here’s the reaction of what He teaches. Monica, will you continue to read for us verse 15.

Monica 26:38

15: “And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?”

Tammy 26:38

Now underline the word ‘letters’, 'cuz I thought this was interesting. I’m like, why does it say ‘letters’? Well in Greek the translation is actually ‘writings’. So now it makes more sense to me. The Jews marvelled, saying, ‘How knoweth this man writings, having never learned?’ So they’re how does He know what He’s reading; how does He know what He’s teaching us? Oh, He, He had learned, definitely. But He teaches us something profound about how He learned. And that’s found in verses 16 and 17. So Karina I’m going to have you read these 2 verses for us. And I want everyone listening to grab the brightest color you have of scripture markers and put a square around verses 16 and 17 combined. This is a Scripture Mastery scripture; it’s super important for us to know, and Karina is going to read them for us.

Karina 26:38

16: “Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17: “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”

Tammy 26:38

Thank You. Now verse 17 that began: “If any man will do his will. "I circled ‘his’ and wrote ‘God” above it. ‘If any man will do God’s will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.’ So they’re like, How does He know this? And the Savior’s like, ‘Oh I know it, because I’ve tried it and I’ve lived it.’ And I asked both of you to kind of think about this question over the last week when I sent to you. And I’m just curious to know, do you have an experience where you have gained a testimony of a doctrinal principle because you lived it or you practiced it? Do you have anything you could share with us about this?

Karina 26:38

I do. We both do.

Tammy 26:38

Please, go.

Karina 26:38

I was thinking about this question. The first thing that came to mind and one that stuck was prayer. Because I’m never been like good pray-er, I guess I would say. But when I was like 15, I think when my grandma waws really sick and went into a coma, I was asked by my grandpa to pray for her health. And I prayed about her getting well and everything. And wanting her to heal and wake up. And at the end of my prayer I got a really strong impression to add “Thy will be done.: And that was something, I’ve never, never done before or even thought about. And when I finished my prayer my grandpa asked me, Why did you say that? And I could only answer like I was inspired to.

And a couple of days later I was actually at the girls camp with the Young Womens and during that night in the tent that I was sharing with my cousin and we prayed for her again. And just in the middle of that night I woke up and just felt so strongly that she died. And she did; and I kind of felt the peace that I got an answer to my prayer because I said, “Thy will be done.” So my experience with prayer is NOT getting what I prayed for, but what the Lord wanted to happen. But that’s probably the strongest answer I’ve ever had to a prayer.

Tammy 26:38

Wow. What a beautiful example, Karina and at such a young age, at 15. I think that’s incredible you were able to have that moment where you knew the doctrine of prayer.

Karina 26:38

Yep

Tammy 26:38

And I haven’t even asked this of either one of you: were you both born and raised in the church? Or were you baptized later? How did you both come in to the church?

Karina 26:38

I’m born and raised in the church. Monica – that’s a different story. (laughter)

Tammy 26:38

Oh, okay. Well, maybe we’ll get to that with Monica‘s story. Okay, well Monica, tell us yours, then.

Monica 26:38

I probably should tell you all a little bit before, then. I was born into the church; my grandparents on my dad’s side was the first in our families to join the church. So, I was born into the church and I got baptized at 8 but then I think within a few months, maybe a year, my parents got divorced, or they split up. So I lost contact with the church for many years. I was baptized again in ’95, so when I was 23. So I was gone from, I was 9 years old until I was 23, so. And the story I was going to tell now, actually is about when I met the missionaries again. So when I was 23, I don’t remember exactly what set off the situation but I remember I had this. I was in my bathroom and crying and looking at myself in the mirror and asking why can’t I call myself a Christian? Why? I believe in You. It was sort of a prayer to my Heavenly Father. And I was really upset and I didn’t understand why I couldn't admit it for other people that I was a Christian.

And then a few days later, the next week I met the missionaries on the street in Drammen. And I had just passed them - I went to school in Oslo - so I went past the Golgotha, it’s a walking street in the center, and I used to pass the missionaries every day. And I always wondered why don’t they stop ME? Why don't they want to talk to me?

So, um, but then after I had that prayer, yeah, that night, they stopped me. And we had a little chat and I said yes to have them come to my home and tutor me. And after the 1st lesson I just knew I wanted to get baptized. So, that’s a big question. I did know something because I was baptized earlier so that’s probably why. But I felt the Spirit real strong. And then I got baptized probably 2 months after that. I could have done it the day after but I didn't for my family so that they’d be like, get some time to get used to it. But the thing is, the reason why I got a testimony was about prayer and the Word of Wisdom and repentance. Those 3- in-one situation here.

Because from the day they left my house, I really repented and I started living like I thought the members of the church did. So I stopped – I was really fond of Coca Cola and at that time I didn’t think that was allowed, so I stopped that. I didn't drink any tea, and I started reading in the Bible and that helped the change. I felt the spirit, I could feel my Heavenly Father really being there for me. So I got the testimony that prayer really works. Even though I must say, that's probably, I have probably, I have 2 situations like that where I had the prayer and getting the answer real soon. But normally I either don’t get any answers or it takes some time or I don’t see before very long in the future.

Tammy 26:38

Well, let me ask you this follow-up question for both of you, because you’ve given us great examples of how you’ve done the Father’s will and you’ve gained testimonies of it. So throughout your life, then, as members of the church, how has doing His will protected you?

Monica 26:38

I think it’s like how I feel safe on the inside. So even if there are problems and situations in my life that I can't control, I still can feel peace. I don’t want to say ‘happy’ perhaps, but it’s o k. I know I’m here to be tested and experience sorrow and things. So, of course if I do the things I’m supposed to do, read my scriptures, have my prayers and then I feel like He’s always on my side.

Tammy 26:38

Umm. I like that, He's always on your side. That’s a pretty good protection. What about you, Karina?

Karina 26:38

Well, first of all I think about everyday things. Sometimes it’s easy to see answers to prayers, like just the practical things. I’m a practical person. I had some really troubles with my car once and I was like praying, ‘Please, make me safe to get to work.’ And I knew it needed to get fixed and I know that that was my responsibility. But still, it didn’t break down before I drove into my driveway at home, instead of on the highway. And I totally felt protected because it would have been dangerous if it happened before. And I knew that was an answer to prayer. It didn’t save my car, but it saved me, so. Sometimes it’s not like, but other times I have like felt kind of like storms and darkness in my life and I feel protected by just feeling the peace and comfort that Christ gives. It’s not like everything’s o.k. all the time and that’s fine, too. That’s part of life. He hasn’t promised us not to suffer and not experience things, but you can feel a peace in the middle of it. And for me that is protection.

Tammy 26:38

I like how you said protected from the storms. Like, we all will have them, but doing His will protects us in those storms., so wow. Thank you, both of you. Let’s finish this segment with a quote from Elder Von G. Keech. And he shared this in his October 2015 General Conference report. I really like how he summed up doing His will and protection. And Karina, will you read this for us.

Karina 26:38

“As we submit ourselves to His will, we increase in peace and happiness. King Benjamin taught that those who keep the commands of God are “blessed and happy…in all things, both temporal and spiritual. ”God want us to have joy. He wants us to have peace. He wants us to succeed. He wants us to be safe and to be protected from the worldly influences all around us.”

Tammy 26:38

Is there anything from that quote that stood out to you in that quote?

Karina 26:38

Actually was when I read like Benjamin taught that keeping God’s commands are blessed and happy in all things, both temporal and spiritual. Monika and I actually talked about that. I’m like I don’t always feel happy.

I was like

Tammy 26:38

Yeah.

Because

Karina 26:38

I was like, but we discussed it. I’m like it depends on what you put in the word ‘happy’. I think we think of like worldly happy, like going to the theater, or whatever, that kind of happiness. But that inner happiness, you know, that peace, that deep happiness, you can have that. That’s something different. Because I don’t always feel happy and joyful even though I try to do good things. But it’s a different kind of happiness than what we might think of by going out and just having fun. Yeah

Tammy 26:38

Yes. I like you just differentiated that – an inner happiness. I think we can agree with that. Ooh, that’s good. And you know, it’s so interesting. Go back to John chapter 7; we just read verses 16 and 17. And in my scriptures on the next page directly across from it is verse 28 and 29. If you don’t have that, go to verse 28 and 29 in chapter 7, because the Savior speaks to the people in the temple where He’s teaching. But then He teaches this, ‘cuz He just got through saying, “If any man shall do his will, he shall know of the doctrine”. But now look at verse 28 and 29. The Savior bears testimony of His Father. Monica, can you read 28 and 29.

7:28 "Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not, 29: "But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me."

I just think that's so powerful when He says, 'But I know him." The Savior's saying that about His Father. "I know him, I am from him." And then we have the protection in verse 30, which is pretty cool that the Savior is protected. Verse 30, says "Then they sought to take him: but no man laid hands on him, because his hour was not yet come." And He knew that and He walked away. And so in the next segment, we're going to continue this theme of protection, and we're going to learn another story about a woman who was protected.

Segment 3 27:23

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Tammy 27:38

All right, we are going to start this segment with a picture. So I have this picture that I want to share with you, I also took this picture. Now, if anybody comes to Utah, one of the places you're going to absolutely want to visit is called Thanksgiving point. You're going to want to go to the Ashton Gardens to the Light of the World Sculpture Garden because it is sculptures of Christ. Now, this specific picture is referencing the story that's found in John chapter 8. So let's turn to John chapter 8.

And my, my youngest daughter loves this sculpture. Every time we go and we walk past it, she says, 'Mom, this is my favorite one.' And finally I asked her the other day as I was preparing for this. I said, 'Why do you like this so much?' And she just said, I couldn't even believe she used this word. she's so smart. I didn't even know that. She said, Well, for me, it's the injustice of hurting the woman and not the man. And I was like the injustice? And then she said, Jesus just doesn't care about men. He cares about women, too. Jesus actually did something for the woman to help her. So just to put this into perspective, you two, to see how big this sculpture is. Here's the next picture of people walking by it. Isn't that awesome?

Monica 28:54

Cool.

Tammy 28:55

Humongous! So these people are big. And it's sort of set up where there's like a canopy over it. So the way that the artists did this is it makes you feel like you're really in the town court during the Feast of Sukkot. So there is sort of this kind of canopy-looking thing, and you're looking through it at this story. So the story is found in John chapter 8. And we're gonna go ahead and just read these verses. We're going to start in verse 2.

Karina 29:21

John 8:2 "And early in the morning, he came again into the temple and all the people came unto him: and he sat down, and taught them."

Tammy 29:29

Okay, so it's the next day, and He's back doing what He does. Well, He's teaching and now continue the story and read all the way through to verse 11.

Karina 29:37

3: "And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4: They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5: Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6: This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7: So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast the stone at her."

Tammy 30:27

Okay, let's go into some of these verses. So what strikes you about this scenario right here, going back to how we started?

Karina 30:35

The thing I'm like struck by is the, like, stooped down and lift him up, lifting himself up. That for me, I don't know. It's like, He's like meeting her down at her level; He's like condescending down to her level. And from what I understand for a man to like kneel before a woman probably wouldn't be accepted at that time for Jewish men to like be equal with her. And when He talks to the Pharisees, he raises himself up, then He shows them who He is, kind of. So for me, that's at least something I've been thinking about, that.

Tammy 31:19

Ooh, that's really good.

Karina 31:22

That they like, show that's going down and up, you know? Yeah.

Tammy 31:26

Um hmm. And as He's talking to them, you know, it's interesting, because in verse 6 it says this: "....they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him." So the law has already been decided what they should do to her. If you want to cross reference it, the law is found in Leviticus 20:10. I wrote to the outside of verses 5 and 6 these references, Leviticus 20:10, and then Deuteronomy 22:22. It's very clear, it's written in the law that they should stone her. She's committing adultery, that's it, no questions asked. So when they're trying to tempt Him they're like, We wonder what He's going to say. Is He going to be a man who's a fan of corporal punishment? Who is this person that's, you know, healing people, and a man of peace?

And so He does get down on the ground. Nobody knows what He's written. We have no idea what it is that's going on. But then in verse 7 when He says, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her," put this reference: Deuteronomy 17:7. Because in Deuteronomy 17:7, it does say that the person who is accusing him or her of a sin or a crime is the person to cast the stone first. That's the law. So He's actually stating the law but in a way where He's like, it just makes you think. He that is without sin among you, go ahead and first cast the stone at her. He kind of twists the law in a way that makes them go, Huh, wait a minute. And then He stoops back down and continues to write on the ground. So that's where we are in the story. Now let's continue this, because we have verses 9, 10, and 11. And so Karina, keep reading for us.

Karina 33:13

9: "And they which heard it, being convinced by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10: When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11: She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

Tammy 33:47

Okay, thank you. So my first question is, how did the Savior protect this woman?

Karina 33:55

He protected her. I feel like He gave His, He kind of gave His life for her. Because He knows they're setting Him up. He knows that He, He has to sacrifice, you know. So she's saved both physically and spiritually by Him. So He's protecting her both ways by telling her not to sin anymore. He can forgive her sins, so He's protecting her eternal life and her physical life.

Tammy 34:23

Oh, that's so good. Yes. Any thoughts from you, Monica? How's the Savior protecting her?

Monica 34:29

Yeah. Well, I was thinking about the whole situation. And I think He protected her by diffusing the situation. He doesn't aggravate or the thing that He sits down and He pretends like He can't hear them and yeah. The situation could have been much, much worse for her if he had started arguing, or He then turned the eye to them that makes them think, you know, the one who is without sin cast the first stone. Then they have to think and, okay. And then know that they are sinners, all of them so, so they have to go.

Tammy 35:17

Wow. You know as I'm sitting here thinking about this story, Karina, I'm struck with this idea of Him bending down and standing up. I've never focused on that before, but you're right. Like when He stands, He stands to show who He is. And He makes Himself equal with these men who are accusing Him, and He uses their law against them. Like that is powerful. But then He, then to stoop down is a level of humility. And, and He comes down, and when He stoops down, it's in protection of her by not saying anything. That's going to forever stick with me, that is so good. Well, and here's the result of this experience that He had with her, because He does say, "Neither do I condemn thee: go and sin no more." For me I thought, Oh, He's protecting her from judgment, for sure.

And it made me question myself, like, do I do that? Am I protecting people from judgment? Probably not, not the best at it. Because the human in all of us, you know, we see scenarios or situations and we're so quick to form an opinion. And I appreciate how the Savior's like, I am not condemning you either.

And then He just says "Go and sin no more." And that struck me because He's not saying thy sins be forgiven. And He's just saying, and I like this because Monica, it reminds me of you. Like the Savior's like, you go and figure out you. I'm gonna give you time to figure that out and I'm gonna let you do what you need to do to figure that out. And He does that for all of us. Like, He loves us. He doesn't judge us where we are. He's like, you go and figure it out. But then we have a Joseph Smith translation. Look down below at the 11. And so Monica, can you read what the Joseph Smith translation - when it says, "he says unto thee Go and sin no more. - what happens down in the footnote?

Monica 37:04

Yeah. And it says, "And the woman glorified God from that hour and believed on this night."

Tammy 37:13

Oh. Now is that the best ending to the story! And so Monica, I want to go back to your story. After you were rebaptized, how are you like this verse? I imagine you were like the woman - you glorified God from that time and believed on his name. How have you done that?

Monica 37:32

Oh, yeah. Well, it's been somewhat successful and somewhat not. Life came in the way. But yeah, but, you know, I try and I keep, I keep the Lord with me inside. And I try to do my best and sometimes I, yeah, you know. I have some health issues so, and that makes me kind of depressed. I got brain fog, yeah. And it's, it's been a struggle for me to accept it I think, because I want to do more. I want to be the one helping everybody else. Be there, be a tool in God's hands, you know. And I feel that I can't really do much more than my family. So I'm doing all that I can for my kids, my husband, and the people around me. So, yeah, I don't feel that's enough. But as the situation is, I guess

Karina 38:51

It is.

Tammy 38:52

It is

Monica 38:53

I guess I just have to accept that that's the way it is, at least now. So, yeah.

Tammy 39:00

Well, I can't think of anybody who glorifies God's name more than taking care of family. I mean, that is a great way to glorify His name.

Karina 39:10

Monica is a supermom.

Monica 39:12

Yeah I do all for my kids, so.

Karina 39:31

Yeah, she does.

Monica 39:47

A bit too much, I think. But, you know.

Tammy 39:22

Well, when you said though, you have brain fog and you've experienced depression - and for those of us who can resonate with that - like, yeah, it is dark. I mean, here is a woman who's now going to be marginalized. She's already marginalized. Now, she's an adulterer. She's going to carry that for the majority of her life. And I like how the Savior says, "I condemn thee no more", but she's going to go ahead and glorify His name. But verse 12, then gives us some really cool insight to when we're trying to glorify His name and it's just hard or dark, as you said, this darkness or depression. Karina, will you read verse 12 for us.

Karina 40:00

12: "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

Tammy 40:12

That is a great summation, like a summing up point for this woman. Like it will be hard to walk, she may walk in darkness, but He's the light. Now the reason why He's saying this specifically though, is because at the temple at this time, there would have been a menorah that is 75 feet tall that would have shined in the nighttime. They lit it up so that it could shine throughout the night, so that everybody could continue to celebrate the Sukkot celebrations, this, these Feast of Tabernacles. And they wouldn't have to do it in the dark. So He's alluding to this idea, like yeah, you may have light at night, but I'm the light of the world. I'm the light that's going to help you, that's going to protect you and allow you to continue to celebrate throughout your life. So in the next segment, we are going to talk more about this light that will shine in darkness and talk about maybe how light can protect us

Segment 4 41:03

....

Tammy 41:19

Okay, so let's talk about light. Do you ever feel like light could protect us?

Monica 41:23

Oh, yeah.

Tammy 41:24

How could, how could it? How could light possibly protect us?

Monica 41:26

Well, the first I thought of is the obvious. From nature, we need the sun, we need light to thrive, to live on the planet. So we are depending on it. And if you think about if you were in the dark room you need lights or you walk on all the furniture

Tammy 41:34

Absolutetly.

Monica 41:44

and hurt yourself. That's the practical, practical view. But then John, line 5 He says "I am the light of the world." So He is the same for us spiritually as a lamp.

Tammy 42:10

Very good. I like light because I'm afraid of the dark. So anytime in a dark room I have to immediately find it and I will use my phone if I have to. I don't like the dark at all. I need a light bulb, a flashlight, whatever it is. So yes, that's how it protects me. And when I go camping at night, I have to have a flashlight. How am I gonna go to the bathroom? And check for snakes, you know?

Monica 43:08

Snakes, yeah.

Tammy 43:09

What about you, Karina, has light ever protected you?

Karina 42:39

Yes, it has. I was, first thing I was thinking, because here in our way we're now starting to get light and I can totally feel how the difference between natural light and artificial light. Because like driving to work and stuff, how dependent I am on the lights from my car because it's totally dark outside. And like I said in the intro, I like going for walks and hikes and stuff. And if you want to do that in Norway year round, you have to get used to walking in the dark too, because half of the year is dark, almost. So I use like headlights and everything like that. And so then I'm totally dependent on that light to show me the way. And I know, one time I felt like, I felt totally safe walking around. And I could hear something and suddenly I had a deer running right in front of me. And I didn't have enough light to see it. And that made me think like, Okay, I need to get some more lights on, stronger lights, because I can't see danger. So light also helps you see danger.

Tammy 43:53

I didn't even think about that. You, where you live, half of your year is dark.

Karina 43:53

Well,

Tammy 43:54

when you said, that

Karina 43:55

feels like it. It gets dark.

Tammy 44:01

It does, doesn't it?

Karina 44:06

But then the other half, like during summertime, it doesn't get dark, you know?

Tammy 44:10

Oh yeah,

Karina 44:11

t's like, almost 24 hours a day. So yeah.

Tammy 44:15

Okay. Well, this will be great perspective for this discussion, because we're going to go into John chapter 9; we're going to tell a story about a man who was directly affected by light, the light we've talked about, and the Light of Jesus Christ. So let's go into John chapter 9 and we're gonna start this story. We're gonna read a couple of verses, specifically, I want to start with verses 1-5. And Monica, can you read those verses for us, please.

Monica 44:39

9:1 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2: And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3: Jesus answered, Neither hath this man'sinned, nor his parents:. but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. 4: I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the the night cometh, when no man can work. 5: As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

Tammy 45:17

Thank you. Okay, so we have a story about a blind man. And it's interesting because at this time when they're saying who sinned?, that was a belief that it was because of something that you had done or your parents had done, that your child was born with a disability or if you had a disability with something you personally did. And the Savior is disputing that. He's like, Neither. That didn't happen. And verse 4 is interesting. "I must work the works of him that sent me while it is day." Circle the word 'day'. This word means 'life', 'while I am alive' is what He's saying. I will work the works while it is day or while I am alive. "The night", circle the word 'night', that means 'death'. The death cometh, when no man can work. He's saying I need to do works while I'm alive. Because when I die - it's just, it's interesting - He won't be able to, be able to do these things. Because then He says, "I am the light of the world." I'm here to help. And then He performs the miracle, in verses 6 & 7. And Karina, go ahead and read for us those, the miracle.

Karina 46:20

6: "When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with a clay, 7: And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing."

Tammy 46:42

There we go. So we have this incredible miracle. Now, we're going to read a couple of more verses throughout this story to get an idea of what's happening here and then we're going to talk about it. So let's go to verse 11. Here's what happens next. So those who are seeing this, they want to know, how in the world is he able to see? So go ahead and read verse 11.

Monica 47:00

11: "He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool or Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight."

Tammy 47:14

Okay, now they can't believe this. And they're like, Wait. Even the Pharisees, in verse 15, they're like, is this the man who's been doing miracles on the Sabbath? Like, really? Who did this miracle? Karina, here's what He says. Will you read verse 17.

Karina 47:27

17: "They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet."

Tammy 47:35

Okay, now they need more information. So then they go to the parents, and they just want to know, Look. How did this happen? Because he didn't see, now he does. And in verse 20, the parents said, Yes, He is our son, and he was born blind. And verse 21, "But by what means now he seeth," we don't know, he just can see. And so they asked for more information. And so verse 22-25 is what they say. "These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue." So basically, if these parents say that He is Christ, they'll be excommunicated. So the parents are really worried. They don't want to answer that.

So the parents say in verse 23, well, our son, he's of age, go ask him, trying to avoid questioning. We don't want to be excommunicated so go ask our son what exactly happened again. So I love the son's reaction. They go to the Son, and he answered them, "Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see." Now turn the page. You just love the son in this story. In verse 27, they come to him and they go, How are you able to see? Monica, read verse 27.

Monica 48:52

27: "He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would you hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?"

Tammy 49:03

Don't you like that? I already told you. You know how this happened. And so they don't like this answer. And then let's read verses 30-33, because here's what this young man does. Karina, go ahead.

Karina 49:19

30: "The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes. 31: Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. 32: Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind. 33: If this man were not of God, he could do nothing."

Tammy 49:51

So I bracketed off verses 30-33. And I wrote 'the boy's testimony', or 'the blind man's testimony.' I mean, he's testifying here If this man were not of God, he could do nothing. And I'll tell you what, verse 34, he got cast out, the Pharisees kicked him out. They don't want anything to do with him, they cannot believe this miracle happened. And then the Savior steps in. And here we have verses 35-38. And He teaches this just so beautifully.

35: "Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36: He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on Him? 37: And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that taketh with thee. 38: And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him." Now, I asked you guys ahead of time to read this story, because I had some questions for you and I want to know what your thoughts are. First of all, what did we learn about the attributes of Christ through his interactions with the boy and the parents? Were there some attributes that stood out to you about the Savior?

Karina 50:57

First thing I was thinking, there was love. He shows love and compassion. Because he never asks to be healed, it's like,

Tammy 51:09

Right?

Karina 51:11

not from what I understand, It's not. He heals him because He wants to give him life.

Monica 51:19

And I was thinking, I felt like He is, He is being obedient to the Lord. Because in the beginning, where He says, I must work the works of him that sent me while it's day, and night commeth when no man can work. So I think He felt that the Lord wanted Him to, to help the blind man and to give him his sight back. So, so He did what He was supposed to do.

Tammy 51:49

It was interesting to me this idea that He's, going back to your verse 4 that you read for us, Monica, that e saw the light of day, and the Light of the world, and that we know 'day' there means Him and His life. And so he was given the ability to see. And I have this, this really great quote. This is from Thomas S. Monson. President Monson shared this in the General Conference October, 2004. And let's read this about the Savior, okay. And Monica, can you read this for us?

Monica 52:18

Yes. "Those who have felt the touch of the Master's hand somehow cannot explain the change which comes into their lives. There is a desire to live better, to serve faithfully, to walk humbly, and to be more like the Savior. Having received their spiritual eyesight and glimpsed the promises of eternity, they echo the words of the blind man to whom Jesus restored sight: 'One thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.'"

Tammy 52:51

Thank you. And what the Savior can do for us as He is our light, because this is a story about a man who really was blind and couldn't see. But then I think about how many of us are still blind or have been blind in our life, and how the Savior can help us see. And so my question for you is, how has the Savior's light been a protection for you? Do you have a story or an example where you felt like He helped you to see?

Karina 53:17

I'm, well, I, I'm feeling when I was pretty young, I felt like I would never have children. And I've kind of in this church and the culture we were growing up in, I felt like, that sounds weird in my, in my mind. After I got my patriarchal blessing, it even got really strong that I felt like that was not God's plan for me. And I was blessed to get that confirmation. And I have had peace with that ever since. And not having children has never been like something I grieved over. It's never been a burden for me. And that's because I felt the light and I felt the warmth. And I felt that that is the plan. And I felt peace with that.

I haven't talked too much about it before, like lately, because when I was younger, sometimes I mentioned it. And a lot of people then always have to have an answer. They're like, because we always view things from our own perspective. And for a lot of women, like having children, it's not like I don't like children. It's not like I didn't think about it when I was younger. But it's never felt like that was God's plan for me. And now I know for sure it hasn't been and I feel totally fulfilled with the life I've lived and the role I've had in my nieces' and nephews' life. And there's no doubt in my life that's, it's a reason why I'm single. So

Monica 55:07

Yep. You are the foster mom for two of them, at least, so. You do a great job, just you. Yeah.

Karina 55:15

So. But if I hadn't had that, like confirmation from the Lord, like in my young age, it probably would have been a lot harder. So that's been a light for me, because I know so many people that that living, being single, not having children is definitely a grief. It's something they have to, like it's a trial through their life. And I've been blessed it hasn't been that for me. So I'm grateful for that.

Tammy 55:49

Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate your willingness to share that experience. So thank you. So that's what I think the Savior does when He says He's the light of the world. His light protects us from darkness, from deer that we don't see. Right, Karina? From anything like, I need, I like how you said, I need brighter lights. I need my light to see so that it can help me see things that are kind of scary. And I think we all can relate. There are times in our life where we need the light to be brighter. Wow. Is there anything specific you recommend to people to have their light be brighter? What can we do to get brighter lights? Or get the Light of Christ brighter in our life?

Karina 56:35

Like Primary answers, but

Tammy 56:37

Right, yeah

Karina 56:38

But they are so true, though. Like prayer, scriptures, and, and living the gospel, you know. Living what you learn and what you read. And it doesn't help much if you just study and not act it out. But by, for me, by serving others, that gives me light. It gives me joy. I think that's, sometimes we just have to forget about ourselves and serve others. And that will help us to feel Christ's love, because that's what He did.

Tammy 57:18

Great examples, I wrote those down. Ways to get brighter light. What about you? What, Monica, what's your suggestion?

Monica 57:26

Do things that make you feel His presence. I have received so much Light, I just gotta say, from your podcast. It't really helped me because I was, there was some time there I couldn't read very well, because of my eyes and stuff. My brain wasn't working. So, so I had to turn to podcasts. And I found yours. And it's really been a blessing. And it's really helped me to really study the Scriptures. Because previously I have just read it. So that's what I've been doing since I don't have any work. So I spent my days listening. And that's really filled me up, filled my cup. So thank you.

Tammy 58:13

You're welcome. I'm so grateful you shared that. You know, it's kind of sweet. Because Karina reached out to me a long time ago and said, You should have Monica, my sister-in-law on the podcast. She voted for you. And that's, I'm like, well, how about we have you both? Karina, I want to know, why did you think Monica would be so good?

Karina 58:30

Because, she's probably doesn't know this, but I've always looked up to Monica because her story is pretty unique I think, and her how and her testimony. And I know, we haven't said anything about this. But quite a few years back, I had a break from the Church for some years. I never lost my testimony, I was just overwhelmed. And the church as an organization felt like a burden, so I just stopped going for a few years. And after a while it was just comfortable. And I knew I needed to go back and it was kind of hard walking back. I came in after like the first song and left before the closing prayer in the beginning, because I didn't want to deal with the people.

Tammy 59:15

Right.

Karina 59:16

And I just had to take it in my pace and then coming back. And I know Monica's been because of her family and health stuff, hasn't been able to go to church as much as she wants to. But I've never doubted her testimony. I never doubted that she believes and how she found the church again after so many years not having it and not having her parents or family in the church. So yeah. So I'm really thankful that Monica is in our family; she, we need someone like her in our family. She's always the one who's, I never hear Monica talk bad about anyone. If she gets kind of cross with anyone, they've done something really, really, really bad. Because she always sees the best.

Tammy 1:00:32

Yeah.

Well, I try. Thank you. That's nice.

Thank you, both of you for sharing that. And especially you, Karina. I think that's really interesting, because now you're, knowing that about you, and then thinking back to everything you've just answered today, it has so much more weight and power for me. That you really do, you really do what you say you're going to do, and you speak truth. And for both of you, the light is real. And you really know how to get that light brighter. And so I appreciate you sharing what you shared. That was fantastic. And once you see the light, as you both know and you both experienced, you can be guided to walk through something eternally significant and specific. That's why we need the light. And we're gonna talk about that next.

Segment 5 1:00:55

.....

Tammy 1:01:12

Now, this is really unique when it comes to something that could protect us. And I asked you guys to think about this. The word is DOOR. Like how in the world, and I, and Monica, you kind of said this at the beginning. But how could a door protect us?

Monica 1:01:29

Yeah, keeping the elements out. Cold, the wind, rain, at least in Norway, protects us from dangers - keeping thieves out. Yeah. That's the first thing I think about when I think about the door.

Tammy 1:01:51

Very good. Karina, what about you?

Karina 1:01:54

Um, I'm thinking like, I never lock the door when I leave the house for some reason.

Tammy 1:02:00

Ever?

Karina 1:02:02

No

Monica 1:02:02

That's crazy.

Karina 1:02:05

When I'm home. And when I go to bed I lock it because I don't want anyone to come in when I'm here. I'm like, if I'm not here, if they want to come in and take something they at least don't have to break down the door. So, so it gives me safety being home. I have to have it locked, like when I go to bed and stuff.

Monica 1:02:25

Yeah, me too.

Karina 1:02:26

So that's important. But I'm also thinking like, sometimes getting in, like if I was, made me think about like a long time ago when I lived up in, while I went to BYU, I lived up at Timp Lodge for awhile, I worked up there. And I had a moose like, running after me. And then I was really happy to run through the door and lock it after me so he can't come in and attack me. So yeah, sometimes getting inside the door is really important to like, be able to get through that door when you need it.

Tammy 1:03:01

Oh my gosh. Okay, excellent answers. What is all this talk about a door? Let's go to John chapter 10. Okay, turn to John chapter 10 because the Savior actually teaches this, and we sometimes skip over this, but I thought it was really powerful and important to study. And it's just a few verses, it's verses 1-7, when He starts out with saying, ".....Verily, verily, I say unto you,. Scholars believe it's actually a continuation of John chapter 9. And so when the King James translators came through, they broke these into chapters, but some people believe that it was actually He's continuingly talking to them. He just got done healing the blind man, and He just got done worshipping. And now He's going to tell us something interesting, because in verse 41 Jesus says unto them, "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now yoe say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."

So He's kind of talking to the Pharisees, and sticking it to them a little bit. And then He goes, but "Verily, verily I say unto you, he that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber." Now there's a couple of words we want to know in this story. So first of all, the word 'sheepfold', let's mark that. This word is a place where sheep are collected or confined. So it's a place where all the sheep go.

Then we have another word in verse 3, it says "To him the porter openeth." So the word 'porter' means a man that has charge of a door, or a gate. So he's the one that can open and close the gate, He's the door-keeper in this story. So knowing that now it might help us as we study this story. So He goes and He says, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that entereth not by the door into the sheephold", so those of you who don't walk in to where the sheep are collected, but you come up some other way to get in, you're a thief and a robber. That makes sense because he doesn't have a way to get into the door.

Okay, verse 2: "But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep." Obviously, he knows how to get in. And how does he get in - verse 3: "To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out." 4: "And when he putteth forth his fown sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." Now look at 5: "And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." Now, in verse 6, it says: the parable spake Jesus unto them, but they understood not what He was saying. They're like, what? What does this have to do with anything?

And then he says in verse 7: "Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep." Now circle the word 'door'. In Greek, the word DOOR can mean 'entrance or opportunity'. I am the entrance of the sheep, I am the opportunity of the sheep. And then in 8 he says: "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9: I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."

Okay, there's the parable, the whole story where the Savior - I've never considered or connected -that Jesus is a door.

Karina 1:06:22

Wow.

Tammy 1:06:23

Now go back to everything you told me about what a door does for you. And then I'm going to ask, how has Christ as a door protected you? Again, we've been having this theme all throughout, but Karina, specifically you, what could a moose be compared to in this life that you are fleeing from and the door protected you?

Karina 1:06:42

The door protected me.

Tammy 1:06:45

You have your own little parable there.

Karina 1:06:46

Yeah. I do. It can be like, for me, I think what is, sometimes most of the stuff, I'm, You need to protect me from is what goes on in my own head, you know? Like my own thoughts or like stuff's running off like the moose. And I've seen that He protects me, like sometimes I go through questions I have things I have, even if it's good questions. If I just like grind on them too long, and I get into some dark places, or I can get confused. And then I know I just have lay it aside and study Christ and go back to the basics and do that. And then I feel light, you know. I feel protected. I feel He protects me because I stand on firm foundation in Christ. So for me, it's more myself than things around me. I don't think I get too confused any more. I don't get, people convince me not to believe or make me do things I don't want to. But sometimes my own mind starts making me question things. Yeah.

Tammy 1:08:07

Oh, I like how you said that. You know, I've recently been reminding myself of a quote that I heard. "Don't believe everything you think." I think a lot. I think what you just shared is really important for a lot of us. You're right. I often have to run from my own thoughts and the ways that I think about myself and people that I know and love and, and just run and shut the door, which is Christ. And just let Him protect it or change my thoughts.

Monica 1:08:07

Yeah.

Tammy 1:08:08

Oh, that's so good. Monica, you have your own little parable because both times at the very beginning and in the last segment you said that you feel like a door closes and it protects you from the elements. What are the elements that you feel like Christ can protect you from?

Monica 1:08:52

Life? But I actually have a, we have an old house, so we have been rebuilding and we have torn down the entrance of the house. So that's why I guess I was a bit you know, with wind and rain and stuff. So, because earlier this winter, we didn't have a roof yet. So we are building a new entrance. So when they open the door, then practically the snow and the rain came in. But we have built that roof now so it's okay. But I was thinking about another way that Christ has been a door for me.

And then I think about the baptism when I was eight, actually. It's, it was really a special occasion for me. It's maybe, it's, I don't know if everybody feels that way when they're 8, probably they do. But that was actually, I think still the happiest day of my life. I was so happy when I got baptized. My chest was, you know, I thought I was gonna explode of happiness and I was jumping around and you know, being an eight-year old, but, but that feeling has really stayed with me. So and I feel that that has been a protection all those years when I didn't have the church or I didn't have the protection of the church or the community there. And I felt that, I always felt that He is with me, and I know that He's protected me.

Tammy 1:10:45

I think that's beautiful. Just with what you were sharing, it made me think of the scripture in 2 Nephi 31. And this is really cool, because it talks about getting into heaven. And it's, it's baptism. But specifically, in 2 Nephi 31:17 & 18, oh, this is so good. It says, "Wherefore, do the things I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do." And then it says, "for this cause they have been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate" - and you could also put in the word 'door' right here, because it's talking about this in chapter 10 of John, where it talks about the door. You could also interchange it with gate into where the sheep come in.

And He says "the gate by which you should enter is repentance and baptism by water;" And so there you are, yeah, like your first experience going through a gate or a door is baptism. That was so cool. I'm so grateful you shared that.

You know, I'm having a visual in my mind, because the door for me that protects me, one of the things that - and I don't know any other temple like this, maybe - but for whatever reason, the Draper temple front doors are so heavy, so heavy. Like you cannot open them on your own. They actually have a man standing at the door to open it for people, because the wind also comes in and it blows those doors shut, which makes 'em even heavier. And I remember when I first went to the temple, I'm like, Who put these heavy doors in. But it makes me laugh because now when I think about how when I walk into the temple, and those doors shut, I am safe.

And now I'm having this visual of just leaving all of the worries of the world behind me. And leaving, like it says right here, "the robbers and the thieves" are gone when I walk through those temple doors. And those heavy doors just shut close, and protect me for the next two hours that I'm in the Lord's house so that I cannot believe everything I think, so that I can be protected from the elements. And that for me is the place where those doors matter. And I have protection from doors. So I'm grateful for temple doors, no matter how heavy they are, they're going to get the job done. Oh my gosh, ladies, thank you for your discussion. And that was fun to discuss how the Savior is the door. So He is the door of the sheep. And we are all going to enter by way of Him. So in the next segment, we're going to discover this word protection, and how the Savior can offer that to us in another form.

Segment 6 1:13:07

.....

Tammy 1:13:22

We are still in John chapter 10. And we are going to pick up where we left off, and now we're going to read verse 11. And as we do I just want you to highlight in this verse what the Savior calls Himself.

Monica 1:13:33

1):11 "I am the good shepherd, The Good Shepherd, give us His life for the sheep.

Tammy 1:13:39

Okay, underline it; what does He call Himself in that verse?

Monica 1:13:42

The Good Shepherd.

Tammy 1:13:43

The Good Shepherd. Okay, now on a piece of paper if you guys have one, or in your journals, I just want you to draw a sheep. Draw like a big fluffy, round body and a cute little head, because we're going to do something with that sheep body right now. So draw a lamb on your page. And in here, He calls Himself The Good Shepherd. Now the word GOOD, translated in this verse in Greek means 'fair', and in a physical sense.,Ttat which is its own nature is excellent Or in a moral sense, 'beautiful and noble.' So He says, I am a beautiful and noble Shepherd, I am an excellent Shepherd, I am a fair Shepherd. We love that about Him. So in your sheep, what I want you to do is I want you to write the things that He says He will do for us. All of the things that we're going to learn from these verses, and it's in verses 12-15, K? So as I read these verses, all I want you guys to do is write what you hear that the Shepherd does. And then I want you to share with me what you wrote. Here we go.

10:12: "But he that is an hireling" (or that's somebody who's employed) "and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, see it, seeth the wolf coming and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13: "The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14: "I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and I am known of mine. 15: "As the Father knoweth me, even so know i the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16: "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also must I bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Okay, what did you guys mark? Or what did you put inside the sheep? What does He do?

Protect us with His life?

Yes, excellent.

Karina 1:15:13

And He knows us?

Tammy 1:15:20

Um-hm.

Monica 1:15:21

And we know him.

Tammy 1:15:41

Oooh, I like that we know Him. I, you know, I had some fun with this, I actually looked up online the skill set for a shepherd. And I found a website that listed "If you wanted a career path of a shepherd." Here's what you'd have to be able to do. So listen how fun this is. So add these to your Shepherd too. So here's what it said. "If you would like to be a shepherd as a career, you have to provide your flock with medical treatment, provide nutrition to all the animals, examine the animals, move the animals, ensure the flocks safety, care for the flock, move the herd, you have to organize the shearing of the sheep. You have to milk the animals, you have to maintain the pastures - I thought that was interesting - make sure there's enough for them to graze on. You have to assist with animal birth, and then work independently in agriculture. Now, that's a big job, right?

Karina 1:15:54

Yeah

Monica 1:15:56

Yep.

Tammy 1:15:58

Do either of you have any experience with shepherding, or sheep?

no

Monica 1:16:27

My great-grandfather had the farm. He didn't have any sheep; he had cows. But we had, he had a - I don't know what that is in English - we call it in Norway, we call it setted in the place where in the summer the people that are the farmers, the wife's usually and all the girls who kept, took care of the, of the cows and, and there, up there on the setted, there was a lot of sheep. You had to watch where you stepped. (laughter)

Tammy 1:17:28

So if you have, if you can go to the show notes, I will have the link also where it has a job description for a shepherd. And I just want you to look at these descriptions right here of what a shepherd needs to be able to do. And tell me, what do you appreciate about how the Savior does these for you? Is there one that stood out to you? Like, Oh, yeah, Jesus does that for me. Or maybe you'd like Him to do it for you.

Karina 1:17:51

I'm thinking like the medical. Like He can, He can heal.

Tammy 1:17:58

Oh, yeah.

Karina 1:18:00

Not necessarily like heal us from, like illness and stuff, because that's part of life. Some get healed, but some don't. But He can still heal, like how we feel about it and how we experience the whole ordeal. So yeah.

Tammy 1:18:26

Um-hmm. That one What about you, Monica?

Monica 1:18:30

The care for the flock? Also one that touched me.

Tammy 1:18:34

Oh, in fact, read. Read the definition of 'care for the flock', Monica.

Monica 1:18:39

"A shepherd needs a gentle touch and a warm demeanor to make the sheep comfortable and receptive to her care."

Tammy 1:18:46

Yeah. Boy, that's the Savior isn't it? I liked "to maintain pastures. Ensure that animals on pastures or grazing lands have enough feed. Employ pasture conservation measures such as grazing and rotation." I mean the amount of effort it takes to make sure that wherever I am, is going to best benefit me. It's got to be a full-time job for Jesus for sure. Because my pasture's pretty big. But to make sure that my pasture is suitable for grazing. I just think of my whole life how the Savior's consistently done that for me, and I'm grateful for that. That's a fun list. So when He says He's the Good Shepherd, then we have to just read verses 17 and 18. Because this is the ultimate form of being the best shepherd, the most beautiful, the most helpful, and the most fair. So Karina, will you please read verse 17 and 18.

Karina 1:19:50

17: "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life ,that I might take it again. 18: No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself, I have power to lay down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Tammy 1:20:11

Bracket verses 17 and 18. And there's only one word that best describes what He just talked about in there. What word would you put to the outside of those verses?

Karina 1:20:25

Love

Tammy 1:20:26

Mmm. Perfect. Love. Yep. This is the Atonement in action. And there's no, that, I think nothing better describes the Atonement than love. It's interesting because the word Atonement, and we've learned this, in Hebrew, the word Atonement in Hebrew is KAPHAR. And it's spelled KAPHAR. And the word Kaphar in Hebrew does mean Atonement, and it also means 'to cover, to protect'. And so how beautiful that ultimately, everything we've talked about when we talk about how the Savior can protect us, that's exactly what the Atonement does. It protects us. And He does this by laying down His life. And only He can do that. It's through His Atonement that He will protect us. And He protected the woman, He gave the man sight to see again, we just read so many examples today and talked about how this Kaphar or this Atonement has even helped you in your lives. And both of you has consistently bore witness of that. And so I'm just going to end with this last bit, then. How has the Atonement protected you?

Karina 1:21:35

I think that's hard to answer, because it's really personal. But I feel like if it wasn't for the Atonement, what's the point of anything? And everything we do is because of that. So I feel it's protected me in everything I do, actually. It's all-consuming. It, it's everything.

Tammy 1:21:59

It is, it's everything. I like that. Monica,

Monica 1:22:06

Yeah. Well, I feel like a sheep. I have to say, because when I look back on my life, I feel that Christ really has been the Shepherd for me. My road has been kind of bumpy and twisty. And you know, it hasn't been a straight line as it comes to church involvement. I had situations in my life where things could have gone wrong if my mother hadn't adjusted me. I did things when I was a teenager that I shouldn't do. And she was at me immediately. And she was really strict and said, No, Monica, you can't do that. And I didn't, and then I stopped. So I didn't do it anymore. I'm easy that way. I do what I'm told.

So yeah, that was the first time I feel like the shepherd, through my mom, adjusted me. And then when I was around 23, I was going out alot with my friends and drinking. Not much, but you know, did take a drink or two. And probably my life could have, could have done some bad choices probably if I had continued doing that. And that's when I met the missionaries. I feel every time I had some sort of a turn, He has tucked me in to the middle of the road, you know, and i feel like He has been that shepherd with His, with His dogs to you know, run around the herd and keep them safe and together. So yeah. So I was, became one of the big flock again, and not the sheep that's all alone and getting into trouble. So yes, I feel like a sheep. I am a sheep.

Tammy 1:24:31

Yeah, you are a sheep. Oh, I think I like, I like that so much because we all are sheep. Absolutely. And we need the Good Shepherd. And I think it's beautiful how He just in these verses tells us exactly how He will protect us, because He loves us, just like you said, Karina, so. Thank you to both of you for sharing your stories today and for coming so prepared to discuss John 7:10. This was a great discussion. So thank you ladies, we're done. That's the end of our episode.

Monica 1:25:00

Thank you.

So, do you, look back through all of the notes that you took. Is there any takeaway you have from our discussion today or anything that ,that stood out to you or that struck you?

Actually, there was the doors that you told me, tell us about from the temple that were so heavy. And that you felt safe when the doors closed behind you. That, and then the beginning with what do yu call it - sukkahs? Yeah?

Tammy 1:25:33

Yes.

Monica 1:25:34

Yeah. That's my takeawaw, yep.

Tammy 1:25:38

Perfect. Thank you, Monica.

Karina 1:25:41

Mine is actually Monica's take on the door. And the baptism. Because sometimes I think I forget how important that covenant is. We kind of, I don't know, we think about the next one, going to the temple. All those are important, but how important it is to have that protection from an early age, if you can, or whenever you get baptized. That you are blessed with that power and protection from the beginning. So yeah, so that's my takeaway.

Tammy 1:26:17

Yeah, I agree, Karina. I wrote that for me, when Monica, that was sort of her theme was covenants. And when you said right at the very beginning when I asked how do you feel protected? And you said it's through covenants and going to the temple. Like I, I was solely thinking of like physically being protected. And you took it to that next level. And I thought that was beautiful about how your covenants have protected you. And then Karina, I really liked how you, I asked the question, how can our light be brighter? When you sai, you right out of the gate you said serving, living the gospel, and forgetting ourselves. And I think when we do that, absolutely. The light just gets brighter and brighter. And that's why the Savior is the Light of the World. He was the perfect example of being all of those things for us. So, thank you. So good. Oh, ladies, I love you; thanks for giving me your time tonight.

Monica 1:27:07

Thank you, we love you, too.

Tammy 1:27:08

Thank you for sharing this space with me.

Karina 1:27:10

Thank you so much. It's been fun.

Tammy 1:27:13

Oh my gosh. Well, of course, we have to know what you learned. So if you haven't already joined our discussion on Facebook or Instagram, go do it. Just join, sign up. And you know what my favorite thing is? Is when many of you have said, This is the first time I've ever posted on Facebook or Instagram. That is, I'm so, thank you for being brave. Go and post and share some of the thoughts that you've had as you've been studying throughout the week. And then at the end of the week, on a Saturday, we post a call asking for either what you've learned or we ask a question that relates to this week's lesson. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your answer or your thoughts.

You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the Show Notes for this episode on LDS living.com/sunday on Monday, and go there. It's where we're going to have the links to all the references as well as a transcript of this entire discussion, and we have a glue-in for this episode, so go check it out. The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our incredible study group participants were Karina and Monica Westby. And you can find more information about my friends at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me; it is edited by Hailey Higham, and recorded and mixed by Mix At Six Studios. And our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.

Thanks for being here, and please remember that you will always be protected because you are His favorite.

Hey listen, here's my favorite combo: half Coke, half Diet Coke. It's a perfect blend. So if they end up putting that in cans, just know I started it - came from me.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai