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26: "Thy Kingdom Shall Be Established for Ever" (2 Samuel 5–7; 11–12; 1 Kings 3; 8; 11)

Fri Jun 17 15:50:24 EDT 2022
Episode 26

What does it mean to inquire of the Lord? We have a sneaking suspicion that it means more than asking a question, and a look at David’s life might confirm our hunch. For most of his life, David inquired of the Lord to know what he should do—and he was blessed. And sadly, David sometimes chose not to inquire of the Lord—and he suffered a lot of regret and sorrow. As we study 2 Samuel 5–7, 11–12 and 1 Kings 3, 8, and 11, we’ll look for examples of what it means to inquire of the Lord, and how this action can bless and protect our lives.

Segment 1:


Doctrine and Covenants 130:20–21: Blessings are received based on obedience

1 Samuel 25:1: Samuel dies

1 Samuel 31: Saul and his sons die

2 Samuel 1:23–24: David’s eulogy for Saul

2 Samuel 5:3: David is anointed as king


Scarlet: A symbol of Christ’s Atonement

Links: Find Kristen Walker Smith’s Seek course on Deseret Video

Segment 2:

Scripture Chain: David inquires of the Lord

1 Samuel 23:2

2 Samuel 2:1

2 Samuel 5:19, 23

Scripture Chain: Other examples of inquiring of the Lord

Nephi 1 Nephi 15:8

King Mosiah Mosiah 28:6-7

Alma Mosiah 26:13-14

Mormon Moroni 8:7

Joseph Smith JSH 1:18


“It takes an inquiring mind, one who is really anxious to know what the truth is and if you ask God With a prayerful heart with real intent, which means you intend to do whatever the consequences are, that he will manifest the truth of it unto you. And, I’ve had the experience in my own life” (President Russell M. Nelson, “The Lord Answers Questions from Inquiring Minds,”

Segment 3:


2 Samuel 6:2: David goes to retrieve the ark of the covenant.

2 Samuel 6:5–9: Uzzah steadies the ark.

CR: Numbers 4:15: The children of Israel are commanded not to touch the ark.

CR: Doctrine and Covenants 85:8: The Lord refers to steadying the ark

2 Samuel 6:12: David brings the ark out of Obed-edom.

2 Samuel 6:20–22: Michal disapproves of David’s dancing.


“He seemed justified, when the oxen stumbled, in putting forth his hand to steady that symbol of the covenant. We today think his punishment was very severe. Be that as it may, the incident conveys a lesson of life. Let us look around us and see how quickly men who attempt unauthoritatively to steady the ark die spiritually. Their souls become embittered, their minds distorted, their judgments faulty, and their spirits depressed. Such is the pitiable condition of men who, neglecting their own responsibilities, spend their time in finding fault with others.” (President David O. McKay, Gospel Ideals, p. 258.)

Segment 4:


2 Samuel 11:1: David wasn’t where he was supposed to be.

2 Samuel 11:2–4: David inquires after Bath-sheba.

CR: Leviticus 15:19–33: Law of Moses pertaining to women.

2 Samuel 11:5: Bath-sheba sends a message to David that she’s pregnant.

CR: 1 Chronicles 11:41; 2 Samuel 23:39: David knew who Uriah was

2 Samuel 11:8–13: David tries to send Uriah home but Uriah stays with David.

2 Samuel 11:14–17: David sends Uriah to the front of the battle to die.

CR: Doctrine and Covenants 121:37: Amen to the priesthood of David.

CR: Psalms 51:1, 10, 12: David pleading for forgiveness.

2 Samuel 12:14–23: David and Bath-sheba’s child dies.

2 Samuel 12:24: David and Bath-sheba have another child, Solomon.


“As Jesus taught, we don’t eradicate evil with more evil. We love generously and live mercifully, even toward those we think to be our enemies” (“Amos C. Brown: Follow the LDS Church’s Example to Heal Divisions and Move Forward,” Salt Lake Tribune, Jan. 20, 2022,

Segment 5:


2 Samuel 20:16–22: Wise woman persuades Joab not to kill her people.

1 Kings 2:1–4: David is about to die and speaks to Solomon.

1 Kings 2:12: Solomon is made king.

1 Kings 2:19­–27: Solomon cleans house.

1 Kings 3:5: The Lord appears to Solomon.

1 Kings 3:9–12: Solomon asks for wisdom.

1 Kings 3:13–14: The Lord blesses Solomon with more than he asked for.

1 Kings 3:16–27: Solomon solves a dispute between two mothers.

Segment 6:


1 Kings 6:21, 23–24: Details of the temple are described.

1 Kings 8:54: Solomon prays.

1 Kings 11:4: Solomon turns away his heart from God.

CR: 1 Kings 8:61: Solomon knew he needed to have his heart perfect with the Lord.


Wings = Power of movement


Eden = Luxury or delight

Hesed = loving kindness


“Do you remember when you first went through the House of the Lord? I do. And I went out disappointed. Just a young man, out of college, anticipating great things when I went to the temple. I was disappointed and grieved, and I have met hundreds of young men and women since who had that experience. I have now found out why. There are two things in every Temple: mechanics, to set forth certain ideals, and symbolism, what those mechanics symbolize. I saw only the mechanics when I first went through the Temple. I did not see the spiritual. I did not see the symbolism of spirituality” (President David O. McKay, From Gregory Prince and Wm. Robert Wright. David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism (Salt Lake City: University of Utah Press, 2005): 277.)

“The what informs, but the why transforms,” (Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf, “The Why of Priesthood Service,” April 2012 general conference).

Link: Donald W. Parry, “Garden of Eden: Prototype Sanctuary,”

Tammy 0:00

Okay, whoa! Now, did you know that before we came to Earth, we learned about permanent and unchangeable laws that if we kept, we would be blessed with the blessings that were attached to that specific law. And here on earth today, when we obtain any blessing, it's because we were obedient to one of those laws that we learned about. You can read that in Doctrine and Covenants section 130, verses 20 through 21. Now, how cool is that? And if you're anything like me, you're probably wondering, Okay, well, what blessings go with which law and is there one by chance that cancels calories? Just, I'm just kidding. Okay, well, today's discussion of 2 Samuel and 1 Kings is all about laws and the blessings that come from keeping them, and it's sort of a personal inventory on how we're all doing.

Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week, and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group - so fast - we just want to make sure you know how to use this podcast. So follow the link that's in our description. It's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study just like my friend Melissa Hanson Salazar in Colorado. Halla Sis, hope you enjoy this episode.

Now here's my favorite thing about this study group is that each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's a little bit different. And today's totally different. Because we have, now listen, we have Charmain Howell. Hey sis, welcome.

Sharmaine Howell 1:22

Hey, hi, Tammy. So happy to be here.

Tammy 1:25

So good to see your face. Just love you. And we get to interview someone brand new who's never been on, but we could not be more excited about this. It is Kristen Walker Smith. Now. Kristen. Hi.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:37


Tammy 1:38

Okay, for those of you who want to know, and you do want to know this, Kristen has a popular Instagram and a podcast and a YouTube channel and she is all about one minute scripture study. It is the coolest. Like she finds it and then she finds what's the most important thing in the chapters for studying in like one or two verses to read. It's really cool, right, Kristen?

Kristen Walker Smith 1:58

I think it's cool. I'm glad you do, too.

Tammy 2:01

How did you come up with that idea?

Kristen Walker Smith 2:02

It was inspiration that came in the drive line. Everyone pick up your kids in the drive line, that's where inspiration comes. Like I was listening to an amazing podcast, it was about 40 minutes about Come, Follow Me. And I just thought, Man, I would love for teenagers to listen to this. But they just don't have time. And Heavenly Father was like, but they have one minute and I was like, I can do that. I can do that. I'm like the ultimate commenter in Sunday school. I'm like, I have so many one-minute comments I could share. So that's how it started.

Sharmaine Howell 2:29

I love it. So your podcast is, is one minute long?

Kristen Walker Smith 2:32

Well, you know, it says one minute, it's usually two

Sharmaine Howell 2:36

Okay, I have time for that.

Kristen Walker Smith 2:37

It's usually two.

Sharmaine Howell 2:38

If you can't stick to it and you're not really doing what you advertise, I'm not listening, Kristen.

Kristen Walker Smith 2:45

I'm usually like one minute and 59 seconds long. So technically, one minute long.

Sharmaine Howell 2:49

Great, I love that.

Tammy 2:51

But is so much fun. Well, and Kristen is a former seminary teacher. So how much do we love her for that. She knows her stuff. It's worth checking out and her Instagram is really fun to follow. And I'm always telling you guys go on Instagram. I know it's kind of scary sometimes because we don't really like social media, but we do for this. So it's worth following Kristen, and US - Hello, and then find out information. It's really worth it. And you guys, she's also part of a new series that desert book is launching, and it's called "Speakers". And let's be clear, she's just so darn delightful.

Kristen Walker Smith 3:24

So no pressure on me to be great at all. Now you have

Sharmaine Howell 3:28

pressures on you.

Tammy 3:29

The first time I met Kristen, I was like, Oh, I like her, like we met in person a couple months ago. And I just like, Oh, I gotta have her on the podcast.

Kristen Walker Smith 3:37

You're too kind.

Tammy 3:37

If you want to know more information about my guests and read their bios and find our links - Kristen's because Char doesn't have a link but -

Sharmaine Howell 3:37

Oh-o-o yeah. I'm workin on a book lately. No, just kidding...

Tammy 3:45

Sure. You can find all of that information in our show notes which are at LDS on Monday. So we are going to continue with the saga of Saul and David that we left off with last week and it is so full, and the Come, Follow Me lessons cover so much. So grab your scriptures, your scripture journals and let's dig in. So if you go back to 1 Samuel 25:1 I just want you to know that Samuel dies. So Samuel - Rest in peace, very sad - and now we're going to fast forward, aaah, because we don't have enough time to cover everything. We're gonna go to 1 Samuel chapter 31. Saul and his sons die, and it's pretty gory. They cut off his head in chapter 9. And they fastened his body to the wall. I mean, it's just, yeah, well, okay.

Kristen Walker Smith 4:36

All right. It's such a nice bedtime story.

Tammy 4:37

There you go.

Sharmaine Howell 4:38

No wonder we don't know that story very well. Skip that.

Tammy 4:43

Skip that. Exactly. Okay. So then we come in to 2 Samuel chapter 1. Now my question for you leading up to this then is we have the death of Saul and his two sons. And now we have David who's kind of in charge? And my question though, is have either one of you ever give a eulogy at a funeral?

Kristen Walker Smith 5:02

I have not. I've heard a lot, but I've never given one.

Sharmaine Howell 5:06

No, I haven't.

Tammy 5:08

I haven't, either.

Sharmaine Howell 5:09

I was gonna ask you.

Tammy 5:10

Huh uh. But what is the eulogy?

Sharmaine Howell 5:13

Kind of giving, like a life recap of someone at their funeral and, and the good that they've done, right?

Tammy 5:19

Yes, that's totally it. So we have a eulogy right here. And I just thought it was so important for us to read David's eulogy of Saul and his sons. Because these words, knowing what we all know about Saul from last week, I was shocked by this eulogy. So let's look at 2 Samuel 1; verses 17-27 is the eulogy. But we're going to kind of skip a couple of those verses. We're not going to read the whole eulogy. We're just going to read verse 23 and 24. So Kristen, will you please read verse 23 and then Char, will you read verse 24?

Kristen Walker Smith 5:50

23 "Saul and Jonathan were lovely and pleasant in their lives, and in their death they were not divided: they were swifter than eagles, they were stronger than lions.

Sharmaine Howell 6:01

24 "Ye daughters of Israel, weep over Saul, who clothed you in scarlet with other delights, who put on ornaments of gold upon your apparel." That doesn't really make sense to me.

Tammy 6:11

I'm so glad you brought that up. 'Ye Daughters of Israel', oftentimes, that could be literally Daughters of Israel, or it could mean the whole covenant people, everyone of Israel. It says they "weep over Saul, who clothed you with scarlet". Isn't that interesting? Because the color scarlet, in Hebrew, and in the Old Testament is a symbol of Christ's Atonement. And at one point, Saul was so good. And he did just that, like he was a good person, and "with other delights, who put on ornaments of gold upon your apparel."

And there's so much symbolism there about a bride's clothing, and what she wears as she prepares to meet the bridegroom. And that is the same symbolism that oftentimes Isaiah and Ezekiel use to describe US as we prepare to meet THE bridegroom. And so it's very symbolic about temple and tabernacle, and everything that reminds us of the symbol of the covenant.

Kristen Walker Smith 7:06

So something I noticed here that I've noticed in like every eulogy I've ever heard, is there is a lot of highlighting the best and forgetting the worst. Like, like, I mean, David doesn't mention once, like how Saul tried to kill him, you know, kind of glosses over that part. But it's very interesting to me, because like, my dad died when I was seven, and my husband literally calls my dad Saint Richard - his name is Richard - because he has become a saint over the years. Like we idolize my dad, and he can do no wrong. He has never done any wrong. But it is interesting to me. I'm like, what are the best things that people would see in me? Like what? And I'm so like, morbid, but I'm like at my funeral. What are the best parts that people could pick out of my life and say, Oh, you did this great thing. Like, what would that be? I don't know. Have you guys ever thought of that?

Tammy 8:00

Oh, sure. Well, listen, as I was raising two children who weren't my own because their mother died, every day I was like, Boy, what's going to be written about me in my "Lifetime Original Showtime for Women"? I mean. This is going to be coming out as a movie, I can only imagine what they're going to write about me. Everyday I'm haunted with that, for sure. What about you Char?

Sharmaine Howell 8:22

I don't, let me try and think, I don't know if I've really contemplated my eulogy quite thoroughly yet, Kristen.

Tammy 8:28

Here's your chance, Char. You're welcome.

Kristen Walker Smith 8:28

Yes, you're welcome.

Sharmaine Howell 8:33

I don't know. I'm gonna think about it now.

Kristen Walker Smith 8:35

Okay, great.

Tammy 8:36

Well I have to tell you, Kirsten, I love that you brought that up, because as I was reading these, I had the same thought. And for me, I thought, What does this tell us? I mean, here's David saying these words about these men who, you were right, Saul was not that nice. Now Jonathan was his very best friend in the world. But then I thought, How is this a type of Jesus Christ? What will He say about us at our eulogy, or as He stands with us at the judgement bar? Like can you see a connection between David and the Savior and us?

Kristen Walker Smith 8:36

Well, I think it's a connection to how Jesus talks to us now. I don't know if you ever like look at yourself in the mirror and you, I sometimes I am just my own worst critic. And I think, Oh, I was a horrible mom today. And oh, why am I still in my workout clothes, and I never worked out today? But you know, Jesus wouldn't come and say that. He would say, Man, you are working so hard, and way to like get up today and go take care of those kids another day, even though they complained about everything you did, right? So I love that that Christ doesn't just be kindly to us at the end. He speaks kindly to us all of the time, and we can realize that negative voice that comes in isn't Christ, that that's something else.

Sharmaine Howell 9:43

Right. And He really does forget the bad that we do, right, when we're trying, we're striving to do what we know we should be doing. Yeah, we all fail all the time. Right? We can't be perfect, but He does remember the good. This is so helpful.

Tammy 9:58

Beautiful answers. I thought of me for my patriarchal blessing, like if that's the only thing you read at my eulogy, just read my patriarchal blessing. I read that, I'm an adult woman, and I read it and I'm like, I'm God's favorite. Like, does the Prophet know this, can someone notify him I'm alive, that I'm here in this corner of Utah. Because someone needs to let him know that I'm awesome. Just remember my patriarchal blessing at my eulogy, k? Taken care of.

Sharmaine Howell 10:22

I know, I read mine and I'm like, ummm, I wonder when I'm gonna be like that.

Kristen Walker Smith 10:23

You got yours when you were 9?

Sharmaine Howell 10:31

No, no, I said, when I read my mine.

Kristen Walker Smith 10:34

Oh, I thought you said, you got yours at 9. And I'm like, girl, you were ready. But yeah, I feel the same way too, right? Like, that's the voice we need in our heads. That's the voice that makes us want to be great. It's, it's that Christ sees who we can become as if we already are that person. And it helps us become that person.

Tammy 10:49

Totally. Oh, my gosh, ladies, thank you so much for those comments and thoughts on those verses, we just had to stop and think about that before we jump into the rest of this lesson. So here's what I want us to just think about is what Kristen said, What does the Lord say of us? Now, in 2 Samuel, chapter 5, all of Israel anoints David as the new King. So I want you to kind of think about that. We now have King David. So knowing he's the king, what would you say about him? Would it be amazing? Would it be faith-filled? Would it be tragically complex? Everything we know about him, I want us to discuss this and not just study the only David in scriptures that we know, but the David in all of us. So we're going to begin that study in the next segment.

Segment 2 11:26


Tammy 11:27

Okay, you two. What does the phrase "inquired of the Lord" mean to you? And I shot this out to you early, like, what did you, what were you, I want to know what you thought about that.

Sharmaine Howell 11:37

Just really asking God something, right, something that's on our heart is kind of my thought.

Kristen Walker Smith 11:44

I, as, I mean, you asked that question, and I was thinking about it, and I'm like, Well, I know what it doesn't mean and that's what I usually do. Well, I, I okay, so I'm a weirdo. And I get into phases where I get really curious about something. And for a while, I was super curious about the words in the temple sealing. And so every time I would go do temple sealings, I would ask the Sealer to stay after and talk to me. And I would ask him questions about the sealing ordinance. And what I didn't do when I asked the Sealer was ask him a question and then pick up a book and start reading and ignoring him. Right? But when I pray, that is often what I do. I say my prayer, I ask my question, I Amen. And then I pick up a book and I start reading. And so I think inquiring does not just mean asking. It means asking and active listening, because that's, I mean, how can the Lord answer if you're reading a book? darn it.

Tammy 12:38

Well that's a great application. I think you're both right with that. And I want us as listeners to be kind of thinking what that means in our lives to inquire of the Lord. That specific wording is so cool, in light of the story of David. And so here's what I want us to do. We're going to do a couple of scriptures, kind of a scripture chain, which you know, I love. So let's first go to 1 Samuel 23:2. We're gonna go backwards for a minute. 1 Samuel 23:2, and it's going to tell us something that David did, just at the very beginning we're going to highlight it. Char, will you just read that first little bit to the comma?

Sharmaine Howell 13:14

2 Sam 23:2 "Therefore, David enquired of the Lord,"

Tammy 13:16

Highlight that. Okay, let's put next to that verse, 2 Samuel 2:1 and then we'll turn there. 2 Samuel 2:1 and Kristen, will you read that to the comma. Sorry, to the second comma.

Kristen Walker Smith 13:34

I was going to say that's going to be a real short verse, okay.

2 Sam 2:1 "And it came to pass after this, that David enquired of the Lord,"

Tammy 13:42

Okay, let's do another one. Let's go to chapter 5:19. In 2 Samuel,

Sharmaine Howell 13:47

I can read it,

2 Sam 5:19 "And David enquired of the Lord"

Tammy 13:50

Awesome. Can we have another one? Let's go to verse 23.

Kristen Walker Smith 13:54

I already have it marked. I'm so excited.

Tammy 13:56

Hit it Kristen.

Kristen Walker Smith 13:57

it says, "And when David enquired of the Lord,"

Tammy 14:01

Okay, so obviously, the phrase is that David enquired of the Lord over and over and over again. I think it's so important for us to recognize this about David. He inquired of the Lord, and I want to know, how do you think he knew to do this? Where did he learn this from?

Sharmaine Howell 14:16

Examples - someone in his life?

Tammy 14:18

Possibly, yeah. Like there's nothing in Scripture that tells us, how did you guys knew, how did you learn you could inquire of the Lord?

Kristen Walker Smith 14:25

I had a really strong mother who taught me. I mean, she raised me and my four older sisters alone, and I can remember many, many times walking into her room at night. And now as a mom, I'm like, oh, I should have left her alone so she could just be by herself. But I remember walking in and seeing her on her knees. And I knew that even though God hadn't answered her prayers about my dad getting better and not dying, He hadn't answered them the way that she wanted. She still inquired of Him all of the time, because she knew that's how she was going to make it. She had to keep inquiring of the Lord. So, I definitely learned it from a mother's example. And I wonder, I wonder what examples David had.

Tammy 15:09


Sharmaine Howell 15:09

Yeah, same. I think it was from my parents, right, just thing after thing in our life that we needed to pray about. And we would, something would happen, we would kneel down as a family, say a prayer about it. And you know, we were constantly just pouring out our heart to God for the things in our life. So definitely by example, right?

Tammy 15:29

Yeah, I think it might have been the same for David. We knew he came from a very worthy family. His father, Jesse was willing to do sacrifices with Samuel. And he obviously had a mother and I wish we knew her name, I can't wait to meet her. I'd love to shake her hand and hug her, raising all those boys and some girls. I love that example of this. And it's really important for us to kind of think about the role that it plays in our lives, do we inquire of the Lord? In our show notes, I have several examples of this exact wording of people that inquired of the Lord and you can go check that out.

But we have Nephi, King Hosea, Alma the younger, Mormon, and then Joseph Smith, who all went and inquired of the Lord. And that wording is so significant. And then this was kind of cool, because I went and watched an interview that President Russell M. Nelson had with Sister Jean Bingham of the Relief Society General Presidency about inquiring, and I have never considered inquiring of the Lord to be a law with a blessing. And I wanted to read this quote from that actual interview; I want you to help me find out what could be the law and then the blessing according to our Prophet.

"It takes an inquiring mind, one who is really anxious to know what the truth is. And if you ask God with a prayerful heart, with real intent, which means you intend to do whatever the consequences are, that He will manifest the truth of it unto you, and I've had that experience in my own life." What'd you guys find - the law and the blessing? What's he telling us we need to do so that we can get an action?

Kristen Walker Smith 16:52

Well, I think the first requirement - and I loved it - is that we have to be really anxious to know. It can't be casual, it can't be, Oh, I think I'll ask God today because I've got some extra time. It has to be like a true and, and I'm, I have anxiety. I'm not saying you should have anxiety about it. But you should have a, you should be invested in it. You should have some skin in the game.

Tammy 17:13


Sharmaine Howell 17:13

Really, anxious to me also means like, it's not just one time. I don't feel really anxious on the first time I'm asking for something. Right? It's like, I've asked and asked and asked and asked and I'm like, Now I'm just really interested to know the answer to this, please. Just tell me. So it's, you know, that goes with the real intent in that quote, as well. This just is not just a one and done kind of answer question to the Lord. And I love that. He says, no matter what He asks you to do that you will do it, right. Whatever the answer is going to be, you'll do it. Yeah.

Tammy 17:45

Yeah. Perfect.

Sharmaine Howell 17:46

I kind of had an example of this, just recently. So I have been having a hard time with my eldest daughter, not like between me and her. She's just been struggling with some anxiety and just school at middle school. I mean, just all that middle school brings, right. And I was like, What can I do to help her and just at a loss, and just over night after night after night, just praying, how can I help her? And really becoming anxious to know what to do. And, and I was just like, Lord, tell me what the answer is, right. And I think I was trying to find something that I didn't know what answer I was looking for.

But one morning I woke up, and the answer pops, well, it came to mind that I should go on walks with her at night. And I was like, How in the world is that going to help? Right? Like, it's not the answer I was looking for. And it was just take a quick, you know, less than 10-minute walk around the block of our neighborhood. And we're done. So I was like, well, that's odd. I don't know if that's going to really solve the problem that's at hand here. We started doing that and it's, it has changed so much, so much that I didn't realize what actually happened from just simply going on a walk with her. So sometimes I think the answer might even look silly. And like, that's not going to solve my question. But thank you, you know? But, somehow it does, right?

Tammy 19:16

Yeah, absolutely.

Kristen Walker Smith 19:18

Well, and can I be? I think Tammy like I, I always look at things from a little bit of a different perspective, because I struggle a lot like I'm just not... Prayers, prayer doesn't come easy to me. answers don't come easy to me. And I have had the experience of being really anxious and being willing to do whatever God would tell me to do, and not getting an answer. When I was at BYU, I desperately wanted to know what major was right for me and I would, I would go through the process of making a decision. I'm like, Okay, here's my decision Lord, what do I do? Is this right, you know? And nothing, like crickets and I'm going,

Sharmaine Howell 19:57

Okay. Now I'm more anxious?

Kristen Walker Smith 20:00

Right? I know, yes. And it's my junior year and I need to declare a major. And I think something that I have discovered is that when God doesn't answer a prayer said, of a truly inquiring mind, one who is truly anxious to know the truth, it is not that He does not care, it's that He trusts us to make the best decision on our own. And that has been my experience. It did not matter what I majored in in college, it just didn't. The path that my life has gone, I just needed a degree. I needed a degree. And it didn't matter if it was in dance, or if it was in psychology or what. And so that just has been important for me to remember that it's not a sign of God's disinterest in our life when He doesn't answer, it is a sign of His trust in us when He doesn't answer.

Sharmaine Howell 20:45

Oh, how true that is.

Tammy 20:46

So true.

Sharmaine Howell 20:47

And isn't it like 99% of the time? At least in my life. I'm not trying to say that God doesn't answer prayers, but it feels like 99% of the time, the prayers aren't answered, right? And it's not that He's not interested. I love that.

Tammy 21:04

I do too. Well, thank you. You know, I just have to see that as both of you were sharing both your experiences, like, there's just a good feeling. Like you taught truth in that moment, both of you. So thank you for sharing y our experiences, because you're both right. And the spirit is manifesting that. Like right now I feel that 100%. So thank you for sharing that. And this idea of an inquiring mind, I've never considered that there was a law, the law of inquiring, that we will get the blessing of an answer. Whether that be, 'You make the decision because I trust you', or 'here's specifically what this child needs' or 'what you need in your life'. I think it's beautiful how the Lord will do it if we're willing to put forth the effort.

And I think David did that; he inquired of the Lord, he was willing to do whatever it took to get the answer to get the help. He was really a great example of that. And so thank you, that was a really great discussion on inquiring of the Lord. And, and so now we're going to take a shift because you guys in the next segment, we're going to learn about another law with catastrophic consequences.

Segment 3 22:05


Tammy 22:06

Okay, listen, I'm going to be honest, since we are among friends. I'm just going to tell you guys, this law that we're gonna talk about is 100% for me, because I struggle. I'm going to tell you right now, and it's embarrassing that I do, but this is a hard one for me to keep. And someday I might see the blessings that come from keeping it; maybe after this lesson I will have learned why it's so important. So we're just gonna jump right into 2 Samuel chapter 6, and I'm gonna tell you all about this law. Okay, here's the context for the story. David, and we talked about this last week, remember how I said that there was a game in the Old Testament that was sort of 'Capture the Ark', like 'Capture the Flag'?

But then by the time we finished the story, we realized it was more like 'Hot Potato', because all of the different tribes and civilities that wanted the Ark found out it wasn't such a good thing to have the Ark because they got hemorrhoids from it, or really horrible - that's truly the word in Hebrew -or really horrible bleeding disorder. And so they kept pushing the ark. Now everyone's like, we don't want the ark, we don't want the ark. And then I told you that David actually would not get the Ark for 20 more years. So FYI, 20 years have passed.

We are in 2 Samuel chapter 6, and David says, Let's go get the ark. We need to get the Ark of the Covenant back. So he goes back in and he gets the ark. And that's found in verse 2. He says, "Bring up from thence the ark of God." So as he's sending his people to go get the ark, we have this story in verses 5-11 that are sometimes a little bit difficult for us to accept maybe, but there is context for it. And this is the law that I just had a struggle with. So we're going to read the story in chapter 6. Let's read verses 5-9, that's where we'll go to. Kristen, will you please read verse 5.

Kristen Walker Smith 23:41

Yes, ma'am. 2 Sam 6:5 "And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals."

Tammy 23:54

They were so excited to have the ark so this is like, Ah, it's a parade. The ark is coming and people are cheering. Go ahead Char verse 6.

Sharmaine Howell 24:01

6:6 "And when they came to Nachon's" {oh gosh, you got, you gave me the word,}

Tammy 24:06

I know. Nakon, be Nachones. But whatever. You can say Nakonns,

Sharmaine Howell 24:12

Okay, I'll say it just like that.] "And when they came to Nachon's threshing floor," {just kidding, that is so not me. I'll try it again. J

Tammy 24:21

You can just say Nakons.

Sharmaine Howell 24:25

"And when they came to Nachon's threshing floor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.

Tammy 24:40

7 "And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of the Lord.

Kristen Walker Smith 24:48

8 "And David was displeased, because the Lord had made a breach upon Uzzah: and he called the name of the place Perez-Uzzah to this day,

Sharmaine Howell 24:55

9 "And David was afraid of the Lord that day, and said, How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?"

Tammy 24:55

Okay. So you read that and you're like, the guy was just trying to help out.

Sharmaine Howell 25:06

Right? It was shaking. I would have like oh, no, don't fall, don't fall. Save the ark!

Tammy 25:12

Yes. Okay. So let's do this: to the outside of verses 6-9, put this cross-reference Numbers 4:15. In Numbers 4:15 , there's actually an instruction there not to touch the ark if you don't have the priesthood. Like, don't touch it. So it was a known fact, hopefully, we are assuming they knew that they weren't supposed to touch it. And these men were carrying it on sticks so that nobody could touch it. That's something interesting is that there were these sticks that attached to the ark so that nobody would actually touch the ark. So here they're carrying it, it starts to shake a little bit, and Uzzah reaches out to protect it, I guess, in a protecting way. But listen to this quote by David O. McKay. I thought this was really interesting. And Char, will you read this for us.

Sharmaine Howell 25:56

President David O McKay said: "He seemed justified when the oxen stumbled and putting forth his hand to steady that symbol of the covenant. We today think his punishment was very severe, but be that as it may, the incident conveys the lesson of life. Let us look around us and see how quickly men who attempt unauthoritatively to steady the ark die spiritually. Their souls become embittered, their minds distorted, their judgments faulty, and their spirits depressed. Such is the pitiable condition of men who, neglecting their own responsibilities, spend their time in finding fault with others." I

Kristen Walker Smith 26:33

I love that. Oh, my I love it. I just I've seen it. I don't think, I don't think many people that I've seen who have become embittered, or, or have had depressed spirits have gone that direction without doing this, without trying to steady the arc, finding faults in others whose circle of influence they aren't even a part of, right? Like they try to go out of their circle of influence and into someone else's and steady that arc. And man, it doesn't lead anywhere good.

Tammy 27:03

No, no, it doesn't. In fact, let's do a cross reference next to these verses. You put Numbers 4:15, but a modern-day application, a modern-day reference is Doctrine and Covenants 85"8. And in Section 85:8 the Lord refers to this incident to teach a very important principle to the saints, that the Lord does not need the help of men to defend His kingdom. He's reminding them, I' don't need anyone to steady the ark, I'm in charge.' And yet, even today, there are those who fear that the ark is tottering. And they presume to steady its course, with the best of intentions. And that is me. You guys, I'm an ark-steadier. I'm not gonna lie. I have a streak of justice in me, okay. And if there is a better and faster way to do something, I'm going to figure out how to do it.

And so there are so many times when I see things done, I'm like, Alright, you know what? We could do this so much better, and I sometimes complain about the way it's being done. And I think if it was just done this way, it'd be so much more effective, efficient, more involving, more loving. I just really think I'm good at it. And I see that I would, Char, you were in my ward with me, you know how I work. If I'm, and you put me in charge of something, it's gonna be done really well. According to me.

Sharmaine Howell 28:23

Unless it's the organ. Just kidding.

Tammy 28:25

I played that Organ the fastest, most efficient way you could. I pushed that button that played all the things, you bet I did.

Sharmaine Howell 28:37

I take thou back; you did it the right way.

Tammy 28:34

Yeah, I totally, I'm not takin lessons so I'm gonna cheat my way through it. I just, I really thought a lot about this, because I am guilty of this. I have, I want change. And there are things I've wanted change for in the past. And I have gone to the Lord and said, But why? Why can't it be this way? And I want everyone listening to know, because I feel it from the bottom of my heart, that it doesn't mean you can't inquire of the Lord though. Like, please know that being an ark steadier, the Lord doesn't need that. He can, He's doing really good on His own, like He's got this covered. But it doesn't mean you can't inquire of the Lord. And it doesn't mean you can't hope for change or hope for something to be different; we can.

That's what's so beautiful about the gospel of Jesus Christ, is we teach that. We teach that we can pray and inquire and hope. I just have to remember who's in charge. And it's not me. There is a little bit of us who like to steady that ark and we've got to be so careful, from that quote, because it there's never a good outcome. I've never seen a happy ending with an ark steadier.

Sharmaine Howell 29:38

You know, maybe it's, maybe to us it looks like it's unsteady, or it's tipping. And so we perceive that, maybe. And the Lord's like, No, no, no, I got this. I do. There's not a problem here right now. Right? And so maybe, maybe it's just, you know, perspective and experience, but that we're coming from which is totally fine, but you know, waiting on that Lord's time of when that, you know might come or when that change might happen is, is something that I need to work on as well.

Tammy 30:06

Well, and Char as you were talking about steady, you know, the ark earlier, in my mind I imagined, because if the ark did fall and crashed on the ground and broke into a million pieces, I'm imagining God going, It's okay, I'll just build another one. I'm still in charge, I can do that. I can build another ark. And so I think sometimes we get so worried in this mortal world that God can't fix it, or that God can't make it right. And so I better do that.

So again, we just want to reiterate what we've been talking about. Because I just want everyone to be very clear, though. This does not mean that we can't inquire of the Lord, and I loved how we talked about that in that last segment. Because are there things we want to have changed? Sure, you bet. There has been since the church was first organized, there are things that we've wanted different, and that's okay, because we are a religion that can hope and pray for change.

And we just have to remember though, it's not our job to steady the ark, but it is our job to get on our knees to inquire, to anxiously inquire of the Lord, and be willing to do whatever He asks, just like the Prophet taught us. And I just love that came from a prophet. And that if we do that, we will be able to get the answers that we seek. So, some great discussion. Thank you so much. I thought that was really awesome. Okay, so going back into our story, let's go back into Samuel chapter six. Because after this happens, I think it's interesting because then David decides, well, let's just keep the arc at Obed Edom, because he's like, I don't want to deal with what happened just then. And then he's like, and then he sees in verse 12, that that city of Obed Edom was blessed because they had the ark.

So David's like, actually, maybe we want it back. So he goes back, he gets it. And they have a killer party, right? The party of all parties, the parade of all parades. And they're, David's dancing in the streets and he's having so much fun with the music and the people and everything. And his wife, Michal is not havin' it. Oh, she's furious. And so he comes home and she rails on him. So let's bracket off verses 20-22. And we're going to discuss this in sort of a maybe different way than it's perceived. Will somebody please read verse 20, in the way you think only Michal would be saying this? A mad wife.

Kristen Walker Smith 31:36

I can be a mad wife. I can play that part. We're typecasting here. Okay.

6:20 "Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!"

Tammy 32:34

Even the footnote says, 'In his joyful dancing, more of his body was exposed than she believed proper '.

Sharmaine Howell 32:41

Like, just like what were you doing out there? Honey, what do you think you were doing?

Tammy 32:47

That's exactly it

Sharmaine Howell 32:48

Isn't that so interesting? Cuz sometimes we, like, in, I'm just like relating this to my daily life. I don't have this situation that David was in. But sometimes I think it's easy to find fault or kind of want to diminish somebody else when you see them being so happy. Or even like having a really spiritual experience. You know, sometimes it's like, even on like, with my husband and I. I'm like, he's like, I've gotta tell you about this really great, awesome thing that just happened, a spiritual experience. Sometimes I'm like, oh, poo-poo on you. Like, I didn't have a really great experience. So don't share yours with me because I feel stupid, right? You guys ever done that? Like, kind of want to diminish it because you kind of feel stupid that you weren't as spiritual or as excited or as happy. And sometimes we, I think just the natural man in us kind of wants to kind of take away from that sometimes for other people, which is sad, right?

Tammy 33:38

Yeah, definitely.

Sharmaine Howell 33:39

And how that can affect them. Right? How it affected David and his relationship with God and with her.

Kristen Walker Smith 33:45

I feel that, too Char. Like, I read this, and I'm like, Oh, Michal can't hear the music of the gospel. Right? Like, I'm kind of, I'm taking David's side, because when she gets back, and she's all sarcastic, I'm like, oh, that sounds like me. And usually my husband's right when that happens. That's what David's like for a bit. But I was thinking about that. And she's up, you know, standing watching from a window. She's not down there, hearing and feeling that music that David can feel and so when we're not hearing the music of the gospel, things look a little bit silly. And the things we do might seem unnecessary. And it's like, Why do I have to read my scriptures every day? Why do I have to pray? I can't hear the music of these things. And so they look and seem ridiculous to me.

Tammy 34:29

Interesting. I like that aspect of that. Yeah. Let's read verse 21 and 22. This is David's response to Michal and I think this is interesting. Char, read that for us?

Sharmaine Howell 34:35

6:21 "And David said unto Michal, It was before the Lord, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the Lord, over Israel: therefore will I play before the Lord.

22 "And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in my own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honor."

Tammy 35:01

Thank you. Now, some scholars believe that his response is the beginning of his downfall. Like this is a change in his behavior where he's like, Well, and then He claims he's doing it for the Lord. But wow. As opposed to just like, You know, Michal, you might be right. Maybe I was a little bit giddy. I don't know, I wasn't there. But I do think it's interesting because we go from him being this man who inquires of the Lord, who is so good, but then sees, 'Wait, someone else is being blessed because they have the ark? I want that. Now we have it. And let's have this big parade and celebrate.' And then he kind of calls her out.

And then we jump to 2 Samuel chapter 11, which we're going to talk about in the next segment. But it's interesting how he goes from inquiring of the Lord to this story in 2 Samuel chapter 11.

Sharmaine Howell 35:49

So maybe, maybe considering like the desires of his heart, right?

Tammy 35:53

Yes, they begin to change. Okay. Definitely. So we'll discuss that in the next segment.

Segment 4 35:59


Tammy 36:00

Second Samuel chapter 11. Okay, you guys, this is the story, the sad story, the tragic tale of David, and Bathsheba. But before we get into the story, we have to read the key to the entire tale, and it's found in 2 Samuel 11:1, let's go there. And we're going to mark something that I just think is the key to all of this. And I want you guys to tell me why. So, Kristen, will you please read verse 1.

Kristen Walker Smith 36:25

11:1 "And it came to pass, after the year was expired, at the time when kings go forth to battle, that David sent Joab, and his servants with him, and all Israel; and they destroyed the children of Ammon and besieged Rabbah. But David tarried still at Jerusalem."

Tammy 36:41

Okay, what is it in that verse That's the key.

Kristen Walker Smith 36:44

David wasn't where he was supposed to be.

Sharmaine Howell 36:46

Yeah. David tarried still. He stayed.

Tammy 36:50

Highlight that: "at the time when kings go forth to battle" I mean, that's what he's been doing all the way up to this point. He's been going into battle and now he's like, Nah, I'm good. I'll just stay back, while everyone goes and fights. Oh, and then Char, I like how you said, "but he tarried," so make sure that's marked. Okay. So David wasn't where he should have been. That's how we're going to start out this story, because that's so important to knowing this. Okay, then we're gonna get into some fun stuff with this. So let's go into verse 2. Oh, boy, do I love this story. So let's go into verses 2-4. Here we go.

11:2 "And it came to pass in an eveningtide, that David arose from off his bed, and walked upon the roof of the king's house: and from the roof he saw a woman washing herself; and the woman was very beautiful to look upon.

3 "And David sent and enquired after the woman. And one said, Is not this Bath-sheba, the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite?

4 "And David sent messengers, and took her; and she came in unto him, and he lay with her; for she was purified from her uncleanness: and she returned unto her house."

Okay, we're gonna pause right there in the story; there are so many things to unpack in these verses. So here we go and jump in at any point that you want to. So first of all, when it says that the woman was washing herself and then we have sort of like a little sub sentence in verse 4, "for she was purified from her uncleanness". Let's cross reference that with Leviticus chapter 15. Now here's why. Cross reference that with Leviticus chapter 15:19-33. Now, if you go to Leviticus 15, and you read verses 19-33, it is the law of Moses pertaining to women when they were menstruating. When women were doing that they were considered unclean. And they were not allowed to be touched by anyone in the family. And everything she touched was unclean. All of the blankets she laid on were unclean,

Sharmaine Howell 38:36

Are you saying by anyone, including children, like everyone has to stay away? How wonderful.

Kristen Walker Smith 38:42

Seriously, can we reinstate this?

Sharmaine Howell 38:44

How glorious.

Kristen Walker Smith 38:45

That doesn't sound too bad.

Tammy 38:48

No one touch me. I need seven days...Yeah, totally. Totally. Well, then it kind of gives you a new insight to the story about the woman with an issue of blood. No one could be with her, her whole - she was destitute and alone for all those years.

Kristen Walker Smith 39:04

Oh, that's interesting

Tammy 39:05

That she was deemed unclean.

Sharmaine Howell 39:05

Except she was with the women, who were there with her.

Tammy 39:08

Which we talked about, Char.

Sharmaine Howell 39:09

I love that.

Tammy 39:09

How did she know Christ was coming? A woman told her, had to because that's the only person who could be with the unclean, other unclean women. Okay, so she's purifying herself. She's following the law of Moses. Now this is important because her name in verse 3 is Bath-Sheba. We say it Bath-sheba, but it's two words in Hebrew: BATH-SHEBA, and in Hebrew that means daughter is BATH and SHEBA is covenant. So her name literally means 'daughter of the covenant. We love her. Okay, now, here's what we need to know. She has finished menstruating. It's the end of her seven-day period and I am reading this from the perspective of a woman. So if she's finished her period, that means she will not be eligible for getting pregnant for 14 days. Now think about that. Because verse 5 says

11:5 "And the woman conceived, and sent and told David, and said, I am with child."

Like it just seems like they slept together one time. Now look at that word in verse 3.

3 "David's sent and enquired after the woman."

And I just wonder if this is opposite of Joseph when Joseph ran from Potiphar’s wife. And David may have had 14 days to think about what he was doing.

Kristen Walker Smith 40:18

Well, I think, I think this whole thing is so interesting because it is like, stop sign after stop sign is put in front of David, k? Like, we teach our boys and our girls to, you see a picture and it's not appropriate, slam it shut! You look away, you slam it shut, you look away. And then the first thing he does is he sees her and he keeps on looking, K? Stopping point #1. Stopping point #2, he inquires after her and he finds out she's married. K? Stop, stop.

It's like the Lord literally is like putting stop signs in front of his face. And it just keeps going, like he brings her to his house. And maybe he has a nice chat with her? Send her home, David. I'm sure stop signs keep coming. And he ignores stop sign after stop sign. And I think that shows God's mercy though, that He's like, Hey David, you're about to mess up big time and I'm going to do everything I can to help you stop and he just plows right through all of them. It's so sad to see.

Tammy 41:13

And like how you said the word - he just plows right through all of them. And it's so interesting, because he even in verse 3, when they say, Isn't this the wife of Uriah the Hittite? And the reason that was there is because David knew who Uriah was. In fact, there's some great cross references: you can put 1 Chronicles 11:41. You can also put 2 Samuel 23:39, where Uriah is listed as one of the most valued men to David, and to the whole host of people that fight. So David knows who Uriah is; and his servant's reminding him, Wait, is this one of your men,? Don't you really like Uriah? Again, another stop sign, like Come on David.

And so you're right, David plows right through them. And so as a result, now we have this experience where Bathsheba is pregnant. And so David's got to do something about it. Now I asked Char to tell us the rest of this story, because it's so interesting. So Char, hit it. What happens in verses 6-17?

Sharmaine Howell 42:09

Well, we should really just see how we can respond when we've done something wrong, we've made a mistake. And you know, maybe we feel guilty, we feel ashamed, but we want to hide it almost, right? We want to just get away from it. We want to run as fast as we can, but we don't know how to fix it. Because ultimately, we can't fix it by hiding it and getting on our own, right? So David, you know, asked Joab, which is one of like, I'm guessing his servants, right? Who's over the army? Is he over the soldiers?

Tammy 42:38

Joab? I'm so glad you brought that up. Joab is his nephew.

Sharmaine Howell 42:42

Okay. I didn't know that.

Tammy 42:44

We're going to need that in the next segment. So thank you for bringing that up.

Sharmaine Howell 42:46

Okay, so he asked Joab and he's like, Hey, why don't you send me Uriah the Hittite? Because I need to talk to him. So he sends him and he kind of, they kind of just like shoot the breeze. Hey, how's the war going? How's it going? Is Joab, being a good leader, I'm just checking in on you, right? He's trying to like set a good tone with Uriah and kind of, you know, be buddy buddy with him a little bit seems like. He says, Why don't you go wash your feet and go home, go take a night at home, right? So he tells Uriah to go.

And so that's in verse 8. He says "Go down to thy house and wash thy feet. And Uriah departed out of the king's house, and there followed him a mess of meat from the King." So he's sending food with him even right? 9 And 9) Uriah slept at the door of the king's house with all the servants of his Lord and went not down to his own house." So he's, he's, he's doing, he's staying where he's supposed to be, unlike David did. He is, he's standing in holy places, he's doing what he knows he should be doing, right.

Tammy 43:49

He is loyal to the king.

Sharmaine Howell 43:51

So the word comes back to David, Oh, he didn't go to his house. He just stayed with all the servants. And David asked him, he's like, Well get him to come back', right? I need to talk to him again, I have to chat. You know, try #1 didn't work. So in verse 10, David says, Why did you not go down into your house? And 11 Uriah says, he says

"The ark, and Israel, and Judah, abide in the tents; and my lord Joab, and the servants of my lord, are encamped in the open fields;"

He's like, everybody's here. This is where we all are told to be. Everybody. He says, "shall I then go into mine own house, to eat and to drink, and to lie with my wife?" He says, "as thou livest, and as thy soul liveth, I will not do this thing." He's saying, I am so loyal to you, I'm not gonna do that. Don't worry. I won't, I won't disobey orders here. I will do what you've asked me to do, you know? And so Dave is like, oh, shoot, I just, no way out of this. And so

Kristen Walker Smith 44:47

Can I interrupt here's because his plan is, as I understand it, is then bring him home so we can maybe pretend this baby is his. So that's the plan. Right?

Sharmaine Howell 44:56

Right. Of course. He's been gone for so long. Let's get him back to his house. So this is all a big cover-up.

Tammy 45:01

It's such a soap opera. It totally is.

Sharmaine Howell 45:03

Yeah. Yeah. So he's like, Okay, why don't you stay at my house for a few days while I rethink the plan? Like, just chill here, and I'll get back to you. David's at a loss here of how to do this cover up. And so it says, (12) "So Uriah abode in Jerusalem that day, and the morrow." and in 13, And when David called him, he did eat and drink with him. So plan #2, and he made him drunk. Even that he went out, he's like, maybe if he's drunk enough, he will walk home. And then I'll be able to cover it up that way. Right? And maybe he won't even remember what happens. So it'll, it'll all be right, right? When you said he went down, and he even sat with the servants, again, he wouldn't go back home.

And then so in 14, " came to pass in the morning, that David wrote a letter". So he's like, Okay, we're done with this. I don't know. There's no way that that Uriah will shirk his duty, he won't do it. Like I have to just be done with this. Right. So he said, he wrote a letter to Joab. And he sent it with Uriah; he said, Hey, Uriah, can you give this to Joab? How sad is that, right. And in this letter, it says in 15,

15 "....saying, Set ye Uriah in the forefront of the hottest battle, and retire ye from him, that he may be smitten and die."

So he's like, just put him in the worst place of the war that you know of, where right at the battlefront where you know, he'll probably die. I feel bad for Joab at this point, where he's just like, Why? Why am I doing this? In my, like, from what I've read, it doesn't seem like anybody really knows why, or at this point. They're like, 'what's, what's up with this' right? Yeah, it's still all a big secret. And it says, and so as it says, (16) "....came to pass, when Joab observed the city, that he assigned Uriah unto a place where he knew that valiant men were." And I kind of love that phrase, he's just like, well, this is where all the best of the best are going. And they're fighting and they're giving their lives. So I guess this is where he has to go. And so then it's in 17, Uriah ends up dying.

Kristen Walker Smith 47:06

Which, this is so interesting. I'm for the first time really seeing Uriah as a little bit of a type of Christ, where in the Law of Moses, the person who's guilty of adultery is supposed to be put to death, right? And ironically, it's the guiltless Uriah who is put to death, to pay for this, for this sin. I just I've never made that before. So

Tammy 47:29

That's a great connection, Kristen.

Sharmaine Howell 47:31

I haven't either.

Tammy 47:33

Well, and then we have this sad tale because of this whole experience, because of David's choices. Then we you can cross reference Doctrine and Covenants, section 121:37. I mean, this is such a sad verse, it says, talking about the priesthood, "....but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men," then we know what it says: "Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man". And I just thought of David, he's trying to cover his sins to gratify his pride, or his vain ambitions. And it was an amen to the priesthood of that man, this is it for David and he knows that.

And it wasn't the sin of adultery, that will cause him so much heartache and grief; it's the sin of causing Uriah to die. So let's put this next to these verses - to the outside of that "Uriah the Hittite died, put Psalms 51. And we have to just go there. And I asked Char and Kristen to come prepared with this - really quick -because Psalms 51 is David's Psalm to the Lord. And you can just hear his heartbreak. He is so sad about what he has done. And he doesn't know any other way to ask for forgiveness. So in Psalms 51, will you tell me, what did you guys mark? What stood out to you in his song that he sang to the Lord?

Kristen Walker Smith 48:47

For me, it was the very beginning of it. He asks, he says in verse 1 of Psalms 51, he says, "Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness." And that word loving kindness in Hebrew is HESED. Which, have you talked to that about that before, Tammy?

Tammy 49:04

Oh, yes, I love that word.

Kristen Walker Smith 49:05

That word - loving kindness, that hesed - is it's David begging God, to, saying, Listen, we've made a covenant with each other. And I know You never break Your end of the covenant. Please, please, please, no matter what I've done, don't give up on me. And I think that idea of hesed is so powerful for us that God doesn't give up on us. We make a covenant with Him. And we are stuck with Him in the best way possible. He will not give up on His covenant children and David is begging for that hesed to still be active in his life That even though he has gone so far beyond what he thinks the mercy of God really should reach. He's begging for that hesed to be the thing that that keeps God still pulling on David and bringing him home.

Tammy 49:51

Ah, that was beautiful, I love that. What about you, Char?

Sharmaine Howell 49:53

I loved in verse 10, it just said, just the phrase that popped out to me was "renew a right spirit within me." He was just like, just bring that, bring back what I have felt before. I just love that little phrase and then in the very first of 12: "Restore unto me the joy". Seems like he's been in so much sadness, right? Just been in a place where he's just like, I don't want to be here anymore; just help me find that right place, that joy again in my life because I am so, so sad. Right? So sorrowful.

Tammy 49:55

So sad. Those are great verses.

Kristen Walker Smith 50:12

Which is just so interesting, because everything he did after he slept with Bathsheba was he was trying to make himself free, right? It kind of goes back to Cain and Abel. He's like, I just, I want to be free from this sin. And he went about it in all the wrong ways. And it reminds me of Elder Anderson, in the most recent General Conference. He quoted the Reverend Amos C. Brown, who said "We don't eradicate evil with more evil." And that's exactly what David was trying to do. But real freedom, he talks about it. It's, It's Christ's salvation that brings real freedom.

Tammy 51:01

Beautifully said, Wow. Thank you for sharing what you loved in Psalms 51. I encourage everyone to read it now that you know where it comes from, and the connection and the backstory to it. Because it is just heartbreaking to imagine David just saying this prayer and singing it to the Lord. And so, go and read it, take it in. It's just incredible. And so (hold please).

Okay. So I love Kristen what you said that David will then spend the rest of his trying to make it right, or, and then he goes about in all the wrong ways. So in 2 Samuel 21:14-23. David and Bathsheba's child is born and then dies seven days later, and it's so sad. And then we go to 2 Samuel 12:24. And this is where then David and Bathsheba will have another child. They're going to have a son, and his name is Solomon, and we're going to learn all about him in the next segment.

Segment 5 51:55


Tammy 51:56

I just want to know from you guys, do you think there are characteristics of a wise person?

I think wise people are a lot quieter than I am. They wait to speak.

Kristen Walker Smith 52:03

That's a good one. What about you Char?

Sharmaine Howell 52:11

Well, I'm really hoping to learn this one day because my Patriarchal Blessing says a number of times that I have much wisdom in my, in my life. Weird.

Tammy 52:21


Sharmaine Howell 52:22

Hasn't quite like struck a chord with me yet.

Tammy 52:25

No, you say wise things for sure.

Sharmaine Howell 52:28

I do believe that, you know, you don't have to be always so well versed and always a scriptorian. And always, you know, well read in order to be wise, right?

Tammy 52:39

Yeah. No, you're right.

Sharmaine Howell 52:40

You can be wise in spirit and wise with the Lord. Right?

Tammy 52:43

100%. So I'm glad you both said those things, because we're going to talk about a woman who was wise in spirit, and in knowledge. Let's go to 2 Samuel chapter 20. Okay, we brought up this name Joab in the last segment, this is the nephew of David. And this story is very important, because there's just nonstop wars, from the time that they have Solomon, we're just gonna have wars and wars and wars. There's a specific word that I'm just going to tell this story really fast because this woman doesn't have a name. It's an unnamed woman in the Old Testament. So of course, I'm going to tell her story.

So let's go to 2 Samuel 20:16. Little backstory is - there happens to be a man by the name of Sheba, or Sheba, however, you want to say that, and he goes rogue. And he's like, we're done following David, we're going to do our own thing. Well, Joab comes in, he's like, No you're not. And so he tries to kill, he's trying to find Sheba to kill him throughout this whole chapter. And he finds out that Sheba is hiding or is in the city. So he's going to come in and destroy the entire city. But then we get to verse 16. And

20:16 "Then cried a wise woman," highlight that "wise woman out of the city." And I love what she says, "Hear, hear; say, I pray you, unto Joab, Come near hither, that I may speak with thee.

17 "And when he was come near unto her, the woman said, Art thou Joab? And he answered, I am he. And she says unto him, here are the words of thine handmaid. And he answered, I do hear."

Isn't this great? He is going to listen to a woman who, by the way remember, women are the lowest of the low, they are the bottom of the totem pole of rank. He had no reason to listen to her, and he could have easily said, Get out of my way, lady, but he's going to listen. Now, I suggest the reason he's going to listen is because remember the story from last week of Abigail and David. And then Abigail's husband dies and David marries Abigail. And I'm quite certain that Joab grew up hearing the story of Aunt Abigail and Uncle David, how David listened to Abigail. Because he listened to her. Abigail saved him in that moment. Yes. So here's Joab, he's like, Alright, I'll listen to you woman. What do you have to say? There's nothing else to say. And so Char, will you please read verses 18 and 19. And then Kristen, will you read verses 20-22.

Sharmaine Howell 54:48

18 "Then she spake, saying, They were wont to speak in old time, saying, They shall surely ask counsel at Abel: and so they ended the matter.

19 "I am one of them that are peaceable and faithful in is Israel: thou seekest to destroy a city and a mother in Israel: why wilt thou swallow up the inheritance of the Lord?"

Tammy 55:07

I love that. She's like, Look, I know you're gonna try and kill us and me. Why are you doing this? So here's what she proposes. Go ahead, Kristen.

Kristen Walker Smith 55:14

20 "And Job answered and said, Far be it, far be it from me that I should swallow up or destroy.

21 "The matter is not so: but a man of mount Ephraim, Sheba the son of Bichri" (that's a fun name) "by name, hath lifted up his hand against the king, even against David: deliver him only, and I will depart from the city. And the woman said unto Joab, Behold, his head shall be thrown to thee over the wall."

That's a new sport.

22 "Then the woman went unto all the people in her wisdom. And they cut off the head of Sheba the son of Bichri and cast it out to Joab. And he blew a trumpet, and they retired from the city, every man to his tent. And Joab returned to Jerusalem unto the king."

Tammy 55:56

Now there's some wisdom; such a wise woman, takes matters into her own and Joab listens to her. So I just wanted us to make sure we understood the story of the wise woman. Don't we love that story?

Kristen Walker Smith 56:05

That is awesome. It's gory, but it's awesome.

Tammy 56:07

Yes, absolutely. Okay,

Sharmaine Howell 56:09

I was wondering why we love it because of the head thing, but

Kristen Walker Smith 56:13

the head thrown over

Sharmaine Howell 56:13

But he listened to her.

Tammy 56:15

Yes. Okay. He listened to her. He listened to this wise woman and she saved her entire village,

Kristen Walker Smith 56:20

like Abigail, it's just like Abigail, right? Love it.

Tammy 56:24

Just like Aunt Abigail. So Joab's gonna listen. All right. Now that's one story of wisdom that we're going to do in this segment. Here's the rest. The background for these next stories is in 1 Kings 2:1-4. So we're going to skip all the way to 1 Kings. Now let's go there. Okay, here's where you do. 1 Kings 2:1-4. David is old, he's about to die. So he speaks to his son Solomon. In 1 Kings 2:12 Solomon is then made the King. (we have to go so fast over these things. I'm very sorry.) Then in 1 Kings 2:19-27 Solomon completely cleans house and he gets rid of people. Then in 1 Kings 3:5 the Lord appears to Solomon and He gives Solomon the opportunity to ask for whatever he wants. So let's go there. We're going to be in 1 Kings chapter 3. Okay. And the Lord says, "What shall I give thee?" Highlight that at the end of verse 5.

Kristen Walker Smith 56:26

I love that.

Sharmaine Howell 57:14

No one asks me that, ever.

Tammy 57:11

No one ever asks that; I know, right?

Sharmaine Howell 57:25

'cept like on Mother's Day, the one day of the year.

Tammy 57:29

What do you want Mom? I want to be alone in my house. Yeah, that's what I want. All right. So ask and I will give whatever you want. So let's read these verses and find out what Solomon asks for and we are going to read verses 9-12. Okay, Kristen, will you read for us.

Kristen Walker Smith 57:48

All of those?

Tammy 57:49

Um, let's each take a verse again. I like that.

Kristen Walker Smith 57:51

9 "Give there for thy servant and understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?

Sharmaine Howell 58:02

10 "And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.

Tammy 58:06

11 "And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; either hast asked riches for thyself, or hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;

Kristen Walker Smith 58:20

12 "Behold, I have done according to thy words; lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee."

Tammy 58:31

All right, what can we mark, what did he ask for?

Kristen Walker Smith 58:33

Verse 9. Right? He says he wants an understanding heart, and I love that he's saying I need to be able to discern between good and bad. He realizes he can't do that on his own. So I love that, that he needs that gift of discernment.

Sharmaine Howell 58:45

Yeah, he's asking for a gift of the Spirit, which is cool, right? He's not asking for anything physical, just a gift of the Spirit. Right?

Tammy 58:52

And I like how the Lord is going to sum up and do him one better, because he's going to give him a wise and an understanding heart.

Sharmaine Howell 58:59

And in 13: "and riches and honor." Because you asked for such a great thing, I'm going to give you even more. So thanks for asking so well.

Kristen Walker Smith 59:09

But don't you see that in your life, too? He says in 13, He says "I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked." And I mean literally, look around you; how many of the things that you have, have you not even asked God for? Like, I have not asked God for this amazing house or my beautiful car, or my kids to all be healthy every single day. Like we just, God always one ups us. Impossible, it's impossible to beat Him at His game. He is always blessing us with more than we asked for. And it's amazing.

Sharmaine Howell 59:37

But a good reminder to me that I need to ask for the gifts of the Spirit. Right? Sometimes I, you know, I don't ask for those. I'm just like, grateful for what I have; so grateful for the blessings. Or I'm asking for help with this. But I should ask for the gifts of the Spirit that I truly am in need of, right?

Tammy 59:54

And we're told we can, that's what's cool about the scriptures, of the gifts of the Spirit. You can ask for them. Oh, great points. I think that's awesome. And verse 14,

14 "...if thou wilt walk in my ways and keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days."

And how great, if you keep my laws, I'm gonna again, I'll do you better. Like, I'm gonna one up everything. Yeah, there's the laws and there's the blessings for doing all of it. So we have this law of service, this law of obedience. And I think it's cool, like when we selflessly seek the Lord's help to serve others, He's going to magnify our abilities to do that. And I think we've seen that in our own lives. Definitely. So cool. So let's see if Solomon got what he asked for, then. Let's see if it really did work. And here's this crazy story that I can't wait for you to help me tell. Okay. So mark off and bracket verses 16 through 27. This is a crazy story, so. Okay, so let's do this. Kristen, tell us the story in just verses 16-22. Set up the story for wisdom here.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:00:53

Okay. So, these women, it's really quite sad. There's two women who live together. And they both have newborn babies, infants, and go to bed one night. And one of the women, unfortunately, she rolls over, it looks like, onto her baby and the baby dies in the night. And when she wakes up and realizes what happened, she switches babies with the other woman. And at that woman wakes up, uuuh, my baby's dead. But then she looks and she's like, Wait, this isn't my baby. So they come to King Solomon to try and figure out what to do.

Tammy 1:01:27

Yeah. Now, how hard would this be to judge?

Kristen Walker Smith 1:01:29

Oh, my goodness, it'd be awful. Yeah,

Tammy 1:01:33

I mean, I would be stumped. Like, uh, I mean,

Sharmaine Howell 1:01:37

I'd be like, hold the baby up. Who does it look like? Are you really this different?

Tammy 1:01:42

Can't do a DNA test, there's no blood draw at this time. I mean, you really go in here hoping for the best on this. Okay, let's see what Solomon does. We have verses 24 and 25. We're just going to read because the king, oh, how much do we love Solomon! And so when he hears the story, verse 24, Char, read 24 and 25.

Sharmaine Howell 1:01:51

3:24 "And the king said, Bring me a sword. And they brought a sword before the king.

25 "And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other."

I found a good solution, let's just do this -

Tammy 1:02:16


Kristen Walker Smith 1:02:16


Tammy 1:02:17

It really is. Like why is this the most brilliant idea? Because as both of you are mothers, does it make sense what happens?

Sharmaine Howell 1:02:26


Kristen Walker Smith 1:02:26


Sharmaine Howell 1:02:27

So the real mother's like, no, no, no, no, no, don't do that. She can have the baby. I want the baby to live, and the other mother's like, No, we'll just do it. That's fine. We'll just, we'll just both take halves.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:02:38

Oh, my gosh.

Tammy 1:02:40

And then Char, read verse 27.

Sharmaine Howell 1:02:41

27 "Then the king answered and said, Give her the living child, and in no wise slay it.: she is the mother thereof."

Tammy 1:02:48

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, he's so wise. He's so wise. So I want us to kind of think about this in our own lives. Because this level of wisdom, I mean, I don't know. There's so many thoughts I have, but in your life, have there been moments where you have just been given such supreme wisdom that you're like, That did not come from me. Like the Lord blessed you with this gift of wisdom in the moment you needed it as a mother or a wife or a daughter or anything like that.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:02:48

I love it - Char is shaking her head. She's like, that's never happened ever in my entire life.

Sharmaine Howell 1:03:32

Supreme wisdom, nope.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:03:21

I do think though, that God really does bless us as we teach. I have certainly been teaching lessons and things come out of my mouth. And I'm like, wow, that was really good. And it obviously was not from my brain. Supreme brain. So I think that God really blesses us as we open our mouths that we can share wisdom beyond our own.

Tammy 1:03:40

Char, you can relate to that.

Sharmaine Howell 1:03:41

I can relate to that. I love that. And my daughter, who is a 12- to 13-year-old young woman taught her first lesson two weeks ago. She came home after the lesson was like, 'I got to tell you, Mom, this is nuts. I was like the screen mirror for the Spirit in my class.' Oh, I never heard of anyone describe it like that. She said, "These thoughts were coming. They weren't my thoughts, mom." And I was like, just screen mirroring it to the class so they could like see what it was. And that

Tammy 1:03:53

That's awesome.

Sharmaine Howell 1:04:13

That's amazing. She's like, So I just like showed it to them through my brain. But it wasn't me.

Tammy 1:04:19

That's awesome Screen mirroring.

Sharmaine Howell 1:04:20

That is like, that's supreme wisdom, right?

Tammy 1:04:25

It is!

Kristen Walker Smith 1:04:25

That was so great. I'm so proud of her.

Tammy 1:04:27

I'm proud of her, too. These, these stories that we read. I mean, they're so fun. And you look at this, you're like, wow, that's wisdom. But I really think there's modern day application. I think every one of us can look at like our lives and go, Well, that was wisdom, for sure. And it's through the gifts of the Spirit. Every one of us are entitled to moments like this where we can just be given something that is goes far beyond anything we could think of, again, because God's in charge. So He's like, I know how to handle this. Like I remember one incident for me particular, newly married, never done the mom thing and I've got this 9-year-old who's grieving and is so angry because her mom has died.

And we were so newly, I would say day, day 2 of mommin it here. Like, that's how soon it was. And she decided, I'm going to make chocolate chip cookies. And I don't want anyone's help, I'm going to do it by myself. And I'm like, All right, I don't know how's it gonna play out. So she's in the kitchen, I hear; I'm just sitting in the living room listening. She makes the cookies, she comes in. She says, Okay, the first batch is in the oven. I'm like, fantastic. Because I love a good chocolate chip cookie. The timer goes off, she gets em, she pulls them out of the oven, and I just hear it slam on the oven. Or on the stove. Sorry, I hear a slam on the stove.

Oh, and then I hear her screaming and crying at the top of her lungs. And I said, Anna, what's wrong? And she comes in and she goes, "They're not like my mom Michelle made. I will never be like my mom ever. I'm never going to be like her." And she just loses it and has such, just sobbing. She'll never be like her mom Michelle because she can't make the cookies. I don't know what to do. I'm like, yeah, maybe you won't be, I don't know.

What do you say? Like, Yeah, let's, alright, let's try another batch of

Sharmaine Howell 1:06:02

Even an experienced mom, like what would she say?

Tammy 1:06:02

I have no idea. And so I was like, Heavenly Father, I don't even know what to say. I don't know how to handle this. I'm gonna need some help. Right now. Toot, sweet, stat. And a thought just pops into my head: Call Aunt Jody and let Aunt Jody tell Anna all the ways that she's like mom Michelle, And I just dial that phone number and I say I need you to talk to Anna and tell her all the ways she's like mom Michelle. And they just talked and it was exactly what Anna needed. I didn't know the answer, I couldn't; I had never met Michelle. And I just thought that is a divine, truly just this wisdom where it didn't

Sharmaine Howell 1:06:38

it wouldn't have been your idea.

Tammy 1:06:40

Yeah, not at all. I would have been like, You're right. You're not like your mom, get over it. I'm not, either. I don't know.

Sharmaine Howell 1:06:47

But I'll take a cookie, thanks.

Tammy 1:06:49

Those were delicious. So yeah, I just think it's important for us to realize like it wasn't just because King Solomon was King Solomon, I think we're all entitled to these moments through the gifts of the Spirit. And that's what's so cool about it. So thank you. Thank you for helping me tell that story about wisdom. Okay, you guys then in the last segment, we're gonna learn about Solomon some more, and we're gonna see if his heart continued to be wise and understanding.

Segment 6 1:07:09


Tammy 1:07:13

Okay, so I'm very excited for this segment, because one of the really cool things about Kristen is that she takes a scripture block and she breaks it down into the most important verses that you should read. So I asked her to do this for us for this segment, because we've got to cover 1 Kings, chapters 4-11, which is a lot. And it's so much information about Solomon, and I can't wait to see what she does with this. So Kristen, take it away. Here we go.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:07:36

No pressure here. All right.

Tammy 1:07:38

Not, none at all.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:07:39

Well, and it's very interesting, because as I was reading through this, I'm like, I was actually listening as I was getting ready for bed, and I was getting drowsy.

Sharmaine Howell 1:07:47

I did the same while I was reading; I was flipping through. I'm like, this one is 60 how many verses? I can't read this chapter.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:07:54

There's so many verses and you, I mean, you get into like 4-6 and 7. I mean, it is detail after detail after detail about the temple and it is snoozy, you know. It's the stuff that we're like, Oh, that doesn't apply to me, let's just go through. But as I read this, I just kept thinking, You know what, this is honestly how the temple felt for me the first time I went, and for many years after, that it seemed extremely detailed, and not super applicable.

Sharmaine Howell 1:08:25


Kristen Walker Smith 1:08:26

Yeah, totally. And I don't know if anyone else has ever felt like this. Maybe I'm just a horrible member of the church. But I really did struggle for like the first 10 years of my temple attendance to actually enjoy it

typical of members, yeah.

Because I am. Okay, thank you. So but I was, I went because I should, not because I wanted to. And I thought that we could take these verses and these chapters and figure out what it is we can do to make it better. And I actually have a quote from David O. McKay. And this is, I'm reading it from LDS Living.

"President McKay asked this question. He said, Do you remember when you first went through The House of the Lord? I do. And I went out disappointed. Just a young man out of college anticipating great things when I went to the temple. I was disappointed and grieved. And I have met hundreds of young men and women since who have that experience."

Okay, now, can we just pause there and all just breathe a sigh of relief, right? Oh, if I felt that way, so did a prophet and things are going to be okay. But then he says, "I have now found out why" And he goes on to explain that temples have two things. "The first is that we have the mechanics. It's what you see." Right? It's what you experience, it's the outward stuff. And then he says, "But there's also the symbolism." And that's where he doesn't say magic, but that's where the magic happens. Right? That's where we actually learn something. And Elder Uchtdorf - this is when he was President Uchtdorf - he also said, "The what informs but the why transforms." And so this is where learning in the temple changed for me.

So let's all head to 1 Kings 6. We're going to look at some symbols. And we're just going to practice this together, okay? If I go to the temple and I have no idea what's going on, and it's just kind of the same thing that's happened every other time, how do I start learning symbolically? How do I look past the mechanics of what is happening to the symbol? So let's practice; we're going to be digging into 1 King 6-8. Now in 6 and 7, he's building the temple. He's building his own house and then in 8, he is dedicating it. But we're going to start in 6 with the temple. So let's go to verse 21. This is some details of what's happening in the temple. Why do we have to read this? I'm starting to snooze. Let's figure out what makes it interesting and exciting, what it can teach us about how we can learn in the temple. So Char, do you want to read verse 21 for us.

Sharmaine Howell 1:10:41

1 Kings 6:21 "So Solomon overlaid the house within with pure gold: and he made a partition by the chains of gold before the oracle; and he overlaid it with gold."

Kristen Walker Smith 1:10:51

Okay, who cares, right? You're reading that and you're going great, good for you Solomon, right? This is what you have to do in the temple is go, Why? You just ask why all of the time, K? Cuz remember, that's what Elder Uchtdorf said. He says, you know, the what is, is you know, what information; the why is what transforms us. So let's start asking the why. Why do you guys think? Why does it matter that we know why would gold be used - pure gold?

Sharmaine Howell 1:11:22

Tammy knows.

Tammy 1:11:23

I'm excited about this one.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:11:25

Oh, go girl.

Tammy 1:11:26

I love this so much. Because I recently learned in an article by Don Perry, where he teaches - you guys, just blew my mind - that the Garden of Eden was a prototype for a sanctuary or temple, which I kind of knew when he came, when he was our guest on the second episode. But then he teaches: apparently the reason that temples are associated with abundance and prosperity is because the garden was too. In fact, the word Eden in Hebrew means luxury and the light. And he also teaches that for later biblical prophets, the Garden of Eden became a byword for prosperity and fruitfulness.

So Solomon's temple that he is building here, it is the epic example of luxury and prosperity. It had to be as a symbol of where He will come to be with His people in a place that is so beautiful. And yes, over the top, God's over the top. I love that! Yeah, because we often are like, Do we really spend that much money on temples? You bet we do.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:12:21

Oh, yeah.

Tammy 1:12:22

Oh, yeah. I love that.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:12:25

Okay. Awesome. So we just took this, this what, and we changed it to a why, and now it has a personal meaning for us. So let's try that again. Let's go to verse, let's do 23 and 24. Tammy, would you read that for us?

Tammy 1:12:39

23 "And within the oracle, he made two cherubims of olive tree, each 10 cubits high.

24 "And five cubits was the one wing of the cherub, and five cubits the other wing of the cherub: from the uttermost part of the one wing unto the uttermost part of the other were 10 cubits."

Kristen Walker Smith 1:12:54

Who cares about cherubs and cubits? Okay, so but first let's, Tammy, would you explain to us what is a cherub? Like we're all picturing, you know, like, Valentine's Day.

Tammy 1:13:04

Yeah. It is an angel though, it is an angelic presence, an angelic being and when it has these wings on it, we've learned in Isaiah and in Doctrine and Covenants, that wings are a symbol of movement coming to and from wherever the Lord needs them to go to do His work.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:13:21

The power to move. Okay, so then say we're in the temple and we're in Solomon's temple and we see that there are these cherubim with wings. What does that have to do with us? What's the why behind that for you guys?

Tammy 1:13:36

Oh, that's cool.

Sharmaine Howell 1:13:38

I just liked in these verses, the specific dimensions, exactness that, like how they described it. Because to me that just came to my mind that God is precise. He has a plan. He has a purpose. Right?

Kristen Walker Smith 1:13:54

Absolutely. And in our own personal lives, too. And we can

Sharmaine Howell 1:13:57

right. Yeah, He's not, just He's not just willy nilly in my life.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:14:02

Right. And your plan is specific too, I love that. Tammy, what about you? What did you think of those angels in their power to move? What, how? Why does that matter for you?

Tammy 1:14:10

Oh, gosh. Because then when you go to the Book of Revelation, and you see that the Lord sends angels to do specific work, like it's, it's for it's for mankind, it’s for His children. And so I see that and I think, what's, what is He doing for me now? And what work is being done for His people that I'm not aware of? Because He is, and before He comes again He will send angels to do all sorts of things.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:14:32

Yeah. And that reminds me of Jacob's Ladder, right? There's angels ascending and descending; angels are in our lives, they are moving in our lives. And that isn't just for prophets. That isn't just for a select few. That is for all of us, that angels have the power to move in our lives and those wings are symbolic of that. I love that. Okay. Let's just for time's sake, we're going to switch over to chapter 8. So we're in 1 Kings 8 and we're going to talk about - this is the dedicatory prayer. And I love this dedicatory prayer because this is this is Solomon asked asking for hesed over and over and over. If you look through these verses, he says, basically, 'so when we mess up when Israel mess ups and we need help, please hear our prayers', right? He's asking for this hesed over and over again. He's learned that from his from his dad, I think, who was so good at asking for that.

But when we go to verse 54, again, this is a symbolic thing, and I love this one. But let's read how Solomon was praying, because we pray now - we fold our arms, we kneel down, we kind of tuck our head down, and we get in this little like crouched turtle position. That is not how Solomon is praying. So let's read this and look for the symbolism and the way he prayed when he gave this dedicatory prayer. So Char, will you read verse 54.

Sharmaine Howell 1:15:52

8:54 "And it was so, that when Solomon had made an end of praying all this prayer and supplication unto the Lord, he rose from before the altar of the Lord, from kneeling on his knees with his hands spread up to heaven."

Kristen Walker Smith 1:16:04

Hmm, isn't that interesting? So he's kneeling down, his hands are up. What's the symbolism of that do you guys think? Why would he pray? I mean, why wouldn't he do his little tucked in turtle? Why would he put his hands up as he pray? This is a long prayer. ? I'm like, he had to have strong arms.

Sharmaine Howell 1:16:20

That's what I was thinking. I was thinking like, my kids, our family rule is 'no butts in the air'. Like, get your head off the floor and you're butt down It's like the family motto: 'No butts in the air.' And so, like I was visualizing him, like this is verse 54. How long have his hands been up? Right?

Kristen Walker Smith 1:16:38

They've been up for a while.

Sharmaine Howell 1:16:39

And to me, like when you put your hands up, that's like vulnerable, right? You're open, you're vulnerable and you're open to whatever is gonna come your way, right?

Kristen Walker Smith 1:16:48

Absolutely. I love that idea. Yes, you're making that's the like I surrender right?

Sharmaine Howell 1:16:53


Kristen Walker Smith 1:16:54

What do you think Tammy? What was that for you? What do you feel like the symbolism is?

Tammy 1:16:58

Ooo, well I just love 'I surrender.' Like I surrendered myself to the Lord. Well, like I'm writing that down right now 'I surrender.' That is so cool. And just this idea that you're all involved, like all of your body. Your arm, because that that tight turtle like how you said you know, we, that is how we pray but then there are times when we don't and it requires an all-physical involvement of everything,

Kristen Walker Smith 1:17:20

more active,

Tammy 1:17:21

Yeah, more active in our prayer. And, too, petitioning.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:17:25

I think the one thing that I love about that is that he's giving it all to God. He's showing Him his clean hands, he's making bear his pure heart and he is speaking to the Lord with his words. He's saying, Here is everything God, look at it and I'm trying my hardest to be pure. So clean hands, pure heart, and the words that come out of his mouth. I just, for me the symbolism of that is beautiful, that it's here's everything Lord, take it.

Sharmaine Howell 1:17:52

I'm writing that down so. Wow, I love it.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:17:56

So quotable today, guys.

Tammy 1:17:59

So quotable.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:18:00

So that, guys though I think is what we need to do in the temple is instead of just looking at the what, the whole time we're in the temple - and this is honestly what I do and this made the difference for me where I love to go to the temple now the temple is like my favorite place on earth.- and it is because I stopped looking at the what and I started transforming because I asked the why. And so I think the Bible is a great place to do that, the Old Testament. There's so much symbolism and we can get so much practice even outside of the Temple of asking that why and then letting it transform us because we see the lessons God wants us to learn.

Tammy 1:18:38


Sharmaine Howell 1:18:39

I love that.

Tammy 1:18:40

Amen! yeah, a huge amen. Kristin.

Sharmaine Howell 1:18:44

Good work

Tammy 1:18:45

That was so cool. I mean, do you realize all we did were talked about three verses. I know, what came of that.

Sharmaine Howell 1:18:54

Well done.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:18:55

I loved it, too.

Tammy 1:18:56

Okay, I just got done clapping, that was so good. We seriously just ended on a high. And then we're gonna kind of do a little bit of a low real quick

But we have to just go to 1 Kings chapter 11 and mention this one thing. Because here we do, we go from this Solomon who I mean, honestly, Kristen, I love it. The what informed him but the why transformed him. It did, until we get to 1 Kings chapter 11. And then he forgot everything. He forgot what he knew he forgot what he learned. And so verse 4 is really the downfall. Kristen read that for us.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:19:32

11:4 "For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David has father."

Which is so sad because that was the one thing he asked God for, that understanding heart so he could tell between good and bad. But he married all of these women. He made these political alliances. He was like, Oh, I know God can protect me, but just in case I'll marry these women for political alliances, just to be doubly sure. But in the end, that's his downfall is that they turn his heart away.

Well, and

Sharmaine Howell 1:20:10

it's so interesting and oh, go ahead Tammy.

Tammy 1:20:12

No, no, no, no.

Sharmaine Howell 1:20:14

But and so interesting because he says the phrase, "and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God." Just two chapters before 8:61 in his own words, he says, "Let your heart therefore be perfect with the Lord your God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments..." Two chapters before! I mean, I don't know how long, that probably took a long time to get all those wives, Right.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:20:40

Yeah, a few.

Sharmaine Howell 1:20:41

Right. But like he was preaching that; he knew it, right? It's just so interesting.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:20:47

There's a big gap between knowing and living, though.

Tammy 1:20:49

Yeah. We're seeing his comeback full circle, because to me, he forgot the why. And now these political alliances, he tried to steady the ark but he forgot who was in charge. So he's like, I better do this. Because clearly no one else is going to so I'm going to take care of things.

Sharmaine Howell 1:21:06

I'm going to take my own hands. And when you take it into your own hands, you're not you're not with using your heart, right,

Tammy 1:21:13

You're not, yep. And you're not with God. And you forget the why. And that is, that's the problem with all of this. And that's the message from gosh, I just love that quote, The what and the why, and he did not remember. And so I think, thank goodness we have a weekly reminder of that every time we take the sacrament. The whole goal is to remember the why and to let the why transform us. And maybe that's where we start is on Sunday. Think about those words in the sacrament prayers and ask questions and ask for the why. Because that's the first, those are the first covenants we make. And it's so awesome. And if we can do that, I think I love what you taught us, Kristen, it will better prepare us for the temple. It will prepare us to ask the why and to look for meaning in words, and why any of this matters to us. So do that this Sunday. Find meaning in the sacrament prayers and ask the why so we don't forget.

Sharmaine Howell 1:22:03

And I love that, David, I mean, I look at him and you think, Oh, how sad was his life? Um, we're talking about Solomon, Solomon, and you think like, Oh, how sad was, you know all of this. But it's just so me every day, right? Oh, man, okay, guys, I admit, but it's just like, you, you know what's right. Your hearts in it, you're asking the why, you're being transformed. A day later, you're not, right? And I love that Tammy, like, let's start on Sunday. It’s let's just keep trying. Just keep on trying and start on Sunday and remember the why and let it transform you.

Tammy 1:22:40

You almost wonder if David had remembered the why. If he had a Sunday to do the sacrament, maybe he wouldn't have, maybe he would have listened to one of those stop signs that you taught us about, Kristen. Like,

Kristen Walker Smith 1:22:50

Instead of plowing through it,

Tammy 1:22:50

'Oh, you're right, I'm an idiot. What am I thinking?' You know,

Kristen Walker Smith 1:22:53

Well, and we're going full circle on everything. But I loved in verse 4, how he compares Solomon to his father, David. And he says that David's heart was perfect. And it goes back to that eulogy thing, that we might mess up. And we might mess up big time, but God is always going to build us up and He's always going to see the best in us. He might call us to repentance, He might ask us to do more, but He's always going to help us see the best in us. So we need to listen to that voice.

Tammy 1:23:21

Yes. YES! So good, so good! My gosh. That's the end of our episode.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:23:31

Oh, great. So fun.

Sharmaine Howell 1:23:33

Oh, how fun was that?

Tammy 1:23:33

Okay, so gather your thoughts, and tell us a quick takeaway. And Kristen, you told us you can do it in five words or less.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:23:40

Char should go first.

Sharmaine Howell 1:23:43

Good luck with that, Kristen.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:23:46

You know what, I do have a takeaway. Well, I was just gonna say: Let the why transform.

Sharmaine Howell 1:23:54

Oh, shoot, I was gonna use that one.

Kristen Walker Smith 1:23:57

I'm sorry, Char.

Sharmaine Howell 1:23:58

That's why I was trying to go in really quick. But I love that one as well, letting the why transform us. And then I just also really loved the whole thought of prayer in these last, this last thing that we talked about and how we can be vulnerable, we can surrender. And when we're kneeling and praying to God, we can, we can give it all to Him. And we can ask, you know, for whatever we want to ask, and as we let Him work on us then, then we can, you know, have that heart that we need to have.

Tammy 1:24:31

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, "the what informs, the why transforms." That was so good. And they connect you to all the laws that we've talked about. I mean, we didn't mention them in each specific segment, but you know what they are, and then yeah, keep those laws - you're blessed. And I just think it's so important to remember that and this this idea that "the what informs, the why transforms". I'm going to do that this Sunday with the Sacrament and um, I'm gonna have to remember this because I'm an ark-steadier. There are things I need to steady. I get that and there's so many people that I love who want that ark steadied. And it can be. We just have to remember the why and who, the Who. The Who is in charge. So yeah, there it is: the what, the why, and the who. I'm gonna put that on a sticky note and put on my mirror.

Sharmaine Howell 1:25:17

Oh, that's a good one.

Tammy 1:25:19

What Why Who.

Sharmaine Howell 1:25:19

I think that was five words. That's a good one.

There ya go, I did a Kristen: The What the Why the Who. There it is. Oh my gosh, ladies, you're the best. Thank you so much. That was really fun. Wow. Thank you for being with me and your insights. And thank you for preparing, because it was a lot to prepare.

Sharmaine, Kristen 1:25:38

Bye. Bye.

Sharmaine Howell 1:25:41

Okay, oh, my gosh, that was such a great discussion. Well, I mean, clearly, I can't wait to hear what your big takeaways are from this episode. So if you haven't joined our discussion group on Facebook or Instagram, go do it. Ask questions throughout the week and share, please share anything you've learned. I'd love to hear what your insights are and what we discussed this week. Then on Saturday, we ask for a call for your big takeaway. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson. And just let us know what you've learned. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on LDS, and it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, because it's where we're going to have the links to the references that we used today as well as a transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out.

The Sunday on Monday study group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original and it's brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our incredible study group participants were Sharmaine Howell and Kristen Walker Smith. And you can find more information about my friends at LDS Our podcast is produced by Katie Lambert and me; it is edited by Hailey Higham and it is recorded and mixed by Mix at Six Studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week.

Oh, and please remember, please, that you are God's favorite!

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