5: "The Lord Called His People Zion" (Moses 7)

Tammy 0:00

How dedicated of a person are you? Are you dedicated to exercising every day? Nope, not me. That's a hard pass. Are you dedicated to eating healthy? MMM, kind of. Are you dedicated to a good cause? Yeah. All right. Are you dedicated to God? - for sure! That's me. Well, today our study of Moses chapter 7, and Dedication is key to understanding the message of this chapter.

Welcome to the Sunday Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus Original and it's brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come Follow Me lesson for the week, and we're really going to dig into our scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Okay, real quick. If you're new to our study group, I just want to make sure you know how to use this podcast. So follow the link in our description, and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to truly enhance your Come Follow Me study just like my friends - oh, this is so exciting for me - Virginia Gregerson and her mom, Becky Mullen McDonald who both listen, thanks to Virginia. So thank you, Virginia for getting your mom to listen. Hi, friends.

Now another awesome thing about our study group is that each week we're joined by two of my friends. Okay, this is my truly, my favorite part. And it's always going to be a little bit different., and today, so different: two new guests who've never been on before. We have Clark and Kara Davis. Hi, guys.

Kara Davis 1:10

Hi,

Clark Davis 1:10

Hi, Tammy.

Tammy 1:11

Okay, the reason I said Clark first is because I knew Clark first. Clark, how do we know each other?

Clark Davis 1:15

Wow. Where do we go? This is the ominous - 20 years ago - Tammy, you were my seminary teacher at the E A G L E S, Skyline Eagles!

Tammy 1:26

Go Eagles,Yes, that is true. 20 years ago! Wow!! You're old.

Clark Davis 1:32

Ah, Tell me about it.

Tammy 1:34

Holy cow. Yes. Clark was my student and I've never forgotten him. He was one of those funny students that I was so endeared to him because he had this way of getting me to do things that I probably shouldn't have done. Like, he'd come and say, "Sister Uzelac, can we just do scripture chase all day?" I'm like, "No, I have a lesson." "Come on, Sister Uzelac." And then I'm like, "Oh, all right." I don't know what, he has this flare about him. I had this automatic connection and kinship to him. And so we are so excited to have him and his wife today.

Clark Davis 2:02

First off, it is a pleasure to be here. I feel like I'm actually earning my Seminary degree, the last three years, and they'll finish it off next year with the New Testament. So I appreciate that.

So we first heard about this, we were driving up to Logan on, I think it was New Year's Day or the day after New Year's in 2019 I think it was. And Kara leaned over and said, "Oh, well, we've got an hour and a half drive, we might as well listen to this great podcast" that I think your mom found, or you found. All of a sudden it just put it on and started listening and within 30 seconds I said, "I've heard this voice before. Who is this?" And she, Kara, was trying to look it up and she's like, Hold on, I'll pull up the name. I was like, This sounds like Sister U. And she's like, What? No, that's not her name. And I was like, No, this is Sister Uzelac. And she finally pulled it up. And next thing you know, you confirmed, it was Tammy Uzelac Hall. And that was really like bread and butter. It was like, this is perfect.

Sister U.

Tammy 2:04

Here we are, Kara.

Kara Davis 2:56

Yeah, of course. Thanks, Mom.

Tammy 2:59

Exactly. And Clark and Kara, how long have you been married?

We're coming up on 15 years in March.

And if you see their pictures, which you're going to want to. You would not believe that because they both look so young, you know, I'm serious. Go find their pictures, read their bios, it'll be so much fun. And you can find those in our show notes, which are LDSliving.com/sundayonMonday.

And so we are going to just jump into Moses chapter 7. And I said to them earlier, because we met a little bit before just to talk over this. And I said how wonderful; this is probably one of the only times we get to study just one chapter, Moses, chapter 7. How you guys feeling about it?

Clark Davis 3:37

I'm overwhelmed. It's a big chapter. Moses, like the book of Moses and Abraham, but mostly Moses, is my favorite book in all of Scripture.

Tammy 3:46

Whoa!

Clark Davis 3:47

So it's pretty powerful.

Tammy 3:49

Why is it your favorite?

Clark Davis 3:51

At first I didn't understand it, and so I chose to ignore it. I think that's why, for a long time, I stayed away from specific aspects cuz I didn't know. And so about 12 or 13 years ago I started working in the Temple. And I just had this affinity for what I was learning. And I did not realize that most of the Temple was the Pearl of Great Price. And it made me draw closer to my Savior in a way that I've never, I've never felt and so that's why I study Moses as much as possible because I feel like when I go to His house, it's like I'm, I've read the' 'instruction manual' and I get to then be open. So I don't have to try to remember and learn because I can now be open to the spirit.

Tammy 4:40

Wow. That was so great Clark. I've never heard anyone talk about the Pearl of Great Price like that. Thank you. Kara, why are you - tell me a little bit about your experience with Moses.

Kara Davis 4:51

I love it. I love all references to hearts; hearts are one of the things that I love in the scriptures and I circle. Well, I don't circle, I draw a heart around every time the word heart is in there. And so I mean, and hearts kind of have a little special meaning to our family. So this chapter is really pertinent to me I feel like.

Tammy 5:11

Oh, my gosh, Kara. Okay, I love that, using the word love with hearts. And I think it's so interesting how we've had so many guests lately tell us that they draw hearts. And they look for hearts and love in the Scripture. So, thank you for sharing that with us. And I am so excited to talk more about this later on in the episode. So thank you for bringing that up.

Well, friends, grab your scriptures and your study journal and let's dig in. Here we go. My first question is, I want to know, What is an experience that you've had where you were totally dedicated to something? Do either one if you have that?

Kara Davis 5:41

Okay, so just a funny little one to start off. When I was little, I was totally dedicated to becoming a shoe salesperson when I grew up. Like I was all in, I was going to do whatever it took to become a shoe salesperson because I love shoes. I was obsessed with them. I felt like I couldn't get enough. I was like growing up, my parents wouldn't buy me all the shoes I wanted. So I was like, well, then that's it. I'm just going to be a shoe salesperson when I grow up. So I was I was dedicated to that, I am not currently.

Tammy 5:41

I love that so much! (laughs) What do I got to do to get you in the shoes? That made my whole day, Kara. I love it. So in your mind, you're like, I'm just gonna get a job at Payless Shoe Source or what?

Kara Davis 6:24

Yes, it was Payless, it was, yeah, I would go in there and just the smell. And just seeing that I was like, this is, this is going to be me some day. Like this, this is me. And so, yeah, that was kind of my my funny one. But the one that I was kind of all in on was growing up, you know, other than becoming a shoe salesperson I always wanted to be a mother. And I had dreams of being a mom and driving around a suburban full of kids and being the soccer mom, you know.

And after we got married and had our daughter Grace, it took some time to have Grace, but we experienced infertility. And so we became all in as far as finding out whatever it took to bring more children into our family. And so being all in on that meant that we tried crazy diets. We did exercise - certain exercises, we did a year of no exercise, we did acupuncture, we did yoga, we did really everything. We did all the infertility treatments. And so that was something that we were wholly dedicated to for years, me as an individual. And then Clark and I together as a couple, we were willing to do anything it took to bring more children into our family.

Tammy 7:41

And did it work?

Kara Davis 7:43

It did not, no. The answer was, sorry, our daughter's name is Grace. And I was reading the scriptures one day, and came upon the scripture that said, you know, "My grace is sufficient." And it was as if the Lord was speaking to me, that grace was sufficient for our family, and that His grace was sufficient for us. And at that moment, I knew that our family was complete. And all that we had gone through was for our good as well as to help others. And so our family is complete with three of us.

Tammy 8:22

Well, that right there is a testimony of dedication. Wow, dedication to God, and to His word. Oh, Kara. Thank you. I didn't know that story. That is incredible. Clark, do you have anything to add to that?

Clark Davis 8:35

It's one of the things that when you're asked to do something like commanded to do something, and you can't really do it? That's hard. For a long time you feel that you are not letting God down, but letting yourself down in the sight of God. That's, that was something that I struggled with for, I mean we did this for like 8 years. So I mean it was a long time and the toll that it took on our relationship, it was tough, it was not easy, definitely. And anyone who goes through it, my deepest empathy goes out to every single one of them.

Tammy 9:07

Clark and Kara, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, as you're sitting here telling your story, all I'm thinking is dedicated, dedicated, dedicated. I mean, 15 years of marriage, dedicated. It's just incredible to me, I was not expecting that answer. And it is so appropriate for what we're talking about today, because we have this story about a man named Enoch.

And just a little bit of background from last week, we introduced you to the Prophet Enoch. And we learned that he had some reservations about doing the Lord's work because he said he's slow of speech. He's like, Oh, and people hate me, by the way, like, why would You ask me to do this? And the Lord assured him that he could do it. And so in Moses chapter 6, you know, Enoch has this miraculous experience that convinced them that he could, so he begins his mission. And we have in Moses chapter 7, verse 1, I just want us to read to the very first colon. Go to Moses, chapter 7, verse 1. And this right here just kind of tells us about Enoch a little bit. And so Kara, will you please read that? Moses chapter 7, verse 1, to the colon.

Kara Davis 10:10

7:1 "And it came to pass that Enoch continued his speech, saying:"

Tammy 10:14

What does that tell us about Enoch?

Kara Davis 10:17

I feel like it tells us that he didn't give up even though he was insecure with his speech.

Tammy 10:25

Absolutely. And the reason why we've chosen to talk about dedication right out of the gates with this is because - highlight Enoch right there in Moses, chapter 7, verse 1. The name Enoch in Hebrew is HANOKH; that's spelled H a n o k h. And that word in Hebrew means dedicated; Enoh's name means dedicated, and I think that is so cool, because it also is the same root as the word Hanukkah. And Hanukkah is celebrating the dedication of the temple, which is so neat. And so it tells us just his name - and his story throughout Moses 7 - tells us everything about Enoch. He is absolutely dedicated.

But there are times that come that really rock your testimony, and Clark and Kara, you shared your experience that really affected you're all in this. So I want to know from the two of you, though, like how did you find the strength to be completely dedicated when you felt like slow of speech or that people hated you, but not really, when you felt like maybe the Lord wasn't answering your prayers? How did you find the strength to do that?

Kara Davis 11:28

To be honest, there was a dark time in my life where we were going through this where I didn't feel dedicated to, like, I didn't feel this closeness to the Lord. I felt completely alone, I felt darkness, I didn't feel light in my life. And I feel like, since then, that's why I'm so drawn to light, opening windows, having my face in the sun, just anything regards to light, because I felt the exact opposite.

There's just something about taking that step in the dark without knowing when the light's gonna come on. For me, that's really what it was. And just moving forward for not only for myself, but for my family. And, and for God, really, because I knew that He would make it right. But I didn't know when it was going to be made right. So I just had to keep moving forward.

Clark Davis 12:24

The interesting thing that when you were talking there, it's, it's such a weird situation to be in, to feel alone, but yet completely surrounded. I mean, we didn't stop going to church. So we had all of that. And we were living back East and your ward was your like, your inner circle. We had family close by, we had social media, we did Skype calls with my family back in Utah. And by all accounts, looking on the outside, you were not alone. But yet you felt, and we had each other. I mean, it was the closest we had ever been but yet, it was this weird, just something inside, it was very, it was very hard, which allowed us to be able to recognize not just being dedicated to a cause, but being dedicated to ourselves and our well-being.

Tammy 13:15

Wow, wonderfully put both of you. You know, you guys have listened to the podcast for a while. And so this experience we're having right now, I feel like we could say, Amen, and end the hole podcast, because I mean, we're in segment one, and we're already feeling the spirit so strong. That is amazing. Both of you sharing that.

Clark Davis 13:33

Like, we can, we can just cut it,

Tammy 13:35

We can just be done. Yeah. Alright, thank you for joining us. Wow. That was so good. Thank you, both of you for sharing your experience, and what it means to be dedicated. So what we're gonna do is, we're gonna continue to talk about Enoch, and how dedicated he was, because like you said, Kara, I really appreciated when you said that you just keep walking, and you don't know what's going to come in the future.

And I don't think Enoch had any idea what would come of the result of him just continuing to speak. He continued doing the one thing he wasn't good at. And wow, amazing, incredible experience he's going to have in Moses chapter 7. So we are going to dive into his words and find out what it truly means to be dedicated and what it will look like eventually for all of us.

Segment 2 14:21

.....

Tammy 14:21

So Clark, you mentioned a little bit about Skype in the last segment. My question for both of you is: How has technology changed the way we communicate? Do you prefer texting, phone calls, voicemails, in-person, FaceTime? Tell me about that for you.

Kara Davis 14:35

(laughter) This is a funny one. I'm curious what he's gonna say, go ahead.

Clark Davis 14:41

go for it.

Kara Davis 14:42

No, I want to hear what you have to say.

Clark Davis 14:43

I love in-person. I'm a face-to-face person. I just love it. I love interacting with people like, feed off of their energy. And if I can't do in-person, I Face them. But I'm a, I can, I like to read people. And so I love in-person. If I have to deliver bad news, tech message.

Kara Davis 15:03

Okay, so, but if you're not with me, how do you communicate with me?

Clark Davis 15:07

Oh, I FaceTime you,

Kara Davis 15:08

Without fail, if Clark's calling me, it's always FaceTime. Never on the phone.

Tammy 15:15

Oh, now that's interesting cuz I feel like FaceTime is reserved for special occasions. Like it costs me money. I'm still old-school long-distance, like that's gonna cost some money.

Clark Davis 15:24

Five cents for every text message.

Tammy 15:26

And I'm a FaceTimer, too. My sister and I, we will FaceTime I mean 20,30 times, a dozen times a day. If we're talking, it's on FaceTime; if I'm talking to my dad, my dad will text me, Are you free to FaceTime? My mom, she'll FaceTime like, we just live for FaceTime in our family. So

Well, that's pretty awesome. Okay, my goal this year is to work more FaceTime. And for those of you who are my friends listening, you're like, No, please don't.

Kara Davis 15:52

All of a sudden you're just gonna start FaceTiming your friends and they're like, Was that an accident?

Tammy 15:56

I know, I will. Okay, well, that is so perfect for this next part because let's go to Moses chapter 7. We have this really awesome story where Enoch has this experience with kind of FaceTime. I love this.

So let's go to verse 2, because it tells us where he's having this experience. The Lord tells him to get on top of the Mount Simeon. Look at the end of verse 2. This is kind of cool. I love the name Simeon because it comes from the Hebrew root word, it's actually SHIMON, we say Simeon, but it's in Hebrew, it's Shimon, which comes from the Hebrew word SHAMA, which means to hear or to obey. We talked a lot about that last year. So isn't that interesting that the Lord's like, I want you to get on the top of this mount, to hear, to obey. I'm going to do, we're going to do something on top of this mountain, it's gonna be very important. And then in verse 3, Clark, will you read verse 3 for us, and then Kara, verse 4.

Clark Davis 16:47

7:3 "And it came to pass that I turned and went up on the mount; and as I stood upon the mount, I beheld the heavens open, and I was clothed upon with glory;"

Tammy 16:56

So the heavens are opened, and Enoch is about to have a spiritual experience. Now I want you to underline the words, "I was clothed upon with glory".,And to the side, right the word 'transfigured.' So "clothed upon with glory" is scripture talk for transfigured, which means that Enoch is going to be temporarily changed or lifted to a higher spiritual level, so that he can enter the presence and glory of a Heavenly being. He has been prepared to see something; listen to what Kara is gonna read in verse 4.

7:4 "And I saw the Lord; and he stood before my face, and he talked with me, even as a man talketh one with another, face to face; and he said unto me: Look, and I will show unto thee the world for the space of many generations."

Thank you. How did the Lord speak to him?

Kara Davis 17:42

Face to face. I love that.

He FaceTimed him. Yeah. Why do you love that, Kara?

Tammy 17:46

I just I think there's something about being with people. I think about this time where we have been separated from a lot of people over the last couple of years. Like, there is something about being with people and seeing their faces and feeling their spirit. I mean, I can't even imagine that experience that, that Enoch had.

Clark Davis 18:07

And I think there's something that I was reading in this book, there was a quote by Bruce R McConkie that I thought was really interesting. And if I could take a second, comes from <Doctrines of the Restoration>. It says, "that we should take things literally, although the scriptures abound in figurative matters, literal occurrences include speaking with God face to face as a man speaketh as His friend, the Lord Jesus, dwelling in Enochs' Zion." But I think it's really interesting to hear that we should take that literal, like we should take that in every literal sense. And, and it's a pattern that we've seen over and over again, which is really interesting.

And this is what I love about Moses. It's that we're literally wrapping Enoch in the same thing that Adam and Moses. And the phrase that I heard a long time ago was 'wrapping in the oracles of God', as an Oracle is like a prophet, right? And it's just continually wrapping them up all the way down to the Savior. And so it should be literal. And we know that the people who bring in dispensations - they are the ones that are transfigured and see God face to face. That's a beautiful, beautiful thing for me. And that's something I hope for, because my ultimate most favorite scripture in the entire world is in Moses 5, verse 10, where Adam says, 'and we will once again see God face to face.' And that's a literal promise to each one of us. And that is why I find so much hope in going to the temple.

Tammy 19:39

Oh my goodness, okay, what was that reference again? Moses chapter 5, verse 10. Let's cross-reference that with Moses 7:4. I'm putting that right there. Moses chapter 5, verse 10.

Clark Davis 19:50

Yeah, yeah, that very last section there and yeah, "and in this life I shall have joy and again in the flesh, I shall see God."

Tammy 19:57

Face to face. That's so neat. Well, especially when you talk about this idea that it's literal, what does that tell us about God? What does it say about Him that He's willing to be face to face?

Kara Davis 20:10

He's invested in each one of us. He has this connection, I think of face to face being a connection to someone. And I also think of the face to face firesides that the Prophet and Apostles do this with the youth and I love how it's called face to face, to create this connection between an apostle or a prophet with the sons and daughters of God. I feel like it's, it's just connecting us

Tammy 20:38

Well, and as that quote that Clark read is in Exodus 33:11 where it says that 'the Lord spoke to Moses face to face as a man speaketh unto his friend.' I love that you brought up the face to face events Kara, I think that's the goal, is it's friend to friend, not apostle to followers. I think they really want to be our friend. I love that connection.

Clark Davis 20:57

Do you think that that is - just an open question: Do you think that sometimes organized religion throughout the ages - and I'm not just referring to the year 2022, but from the very beginning - it's trying to like create this separation of entity between the, almost like a cane, like a majesty, right, and a peasant? And it's trying to create this division and I feel like the Savior when He came, it was like, 'hogwash' all that and bring it all back into one and get back to this relationship. I, I told you a pattern in the very beginning. And it doesn't start with 'in the beginning', it starts with, 'you are My son, and I am your Father. And I want to create this relationship with you.'

And that's what it needs to start with. And it's getting back to Tamu, with the very first week you had, where it's like, if we started that way, we actually could create a relationship that is worthy of FaceTime. And you can use it as much as you want. And there's nothing wrong with that. There is no separation of Deity, it's, you ARE Deity, because you are a birthright.

Tammy 22:09

Yes. Hold, please, I like how you just said you ARE Deity. And how awesome that we have the restoration that can teach us that, that taught us we were face to face with God before we ever came here to Earth. So why would it be any different now? Why would we not be allowed that same privilege? Oh, oh my gosh, so good. That was, that was excellent. Thank you, for both of you for sharing that.

So he has this experience where he's face to face with the Lord. And then the Lord shows him this vision in verses 5,6,7, which is a crazy war. So if you read those - we're not going to read those verses, but I recommend you do - because you just need to know, He's like, 'Let me show you this intense battle that's going to happen with these people from the land of Canaan. The people of Canaan, they were wicked, they were mean. We do not know exactly who they are. Some surmise it could be from Cain. Other scholars say we're not sure if it's from Cain, we just know it's a people called the people of Canaan.

And they go in and they fight, and they destroy this other group of people. It's bad. The war's so bad that then we have verse 8. And this is a great thought because a lot of people have this question about it, and Clark, you had this question before we started recording. You wondered about it and we had a great discussion. But in verse 8 it says

7:8 "....the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people."

Now highlight that "blackness", because I need to talk to you about this. It's really fascinating. We are not talking about a curse from God, or that having black skin is a curse. So Hugh Nibley taught what this verse means and I love his explanation of it. He says this,

"that's interesting again. The Arabs divide all societies into bait al-Sha'ar and the bait al-hajar." So he's saying now, you live in houses of hair, or what he's talking about is the goat's hair. That's a goat hair tent is what you would use to make the other panel of a tent, if you were out in a tent or houses of stone. You are either aswad which means dark skin, or abyad, which is white or light skin. "If you live out in nature, you get a swarthy dark complexion, which they would call "black", then you're the black people. If you live in the house and in the city on a delicate diet, and you keep out of the sun most of the time, then you are abyad", which means you are white or fair-complected.

So that's what that is talking about right here. It is not about a curse, and I just love that explanation of it. You either are a tent-dweller or a stone-dweller. So we are not talking about a curse. We are not talking about how one skin color is better than the other we are strictly just talking about the conditions that people were living in. That's what it's setting up for us. Any thoughts you want to share, or anything that's popping up in your brain?

Kara Davis 24:55

I just think that's all-changing for a mindset that's kind of plagued the thoughts behind these verses. So I think that it's so enlightening and, and it really brings light to the situation, right?

Tammy 25:12

Yeah, it totally does. What, Clark?

Clark Davis 25:14

I said it's needed. We're coming, we're still coming out of apostasy, which is a lack of learning, like we're still, we still have to, to do that. And we need to be learning all the time and be open to understanding things.

Tammy 25:26

Yeah, amen. So we have verse 8, and then we go into this other look. Look at verse 9.

7:9 "And it came to pass that the Lord said to me: Look; and I looked,"

Did that sound familiar to any of you as you kept reading that word Look?

Where else have we seen that?

Kara Davis 25:42

Well, in the Book of Mormon.

Tammy 25:43

Yeah. Perfect. Yeah, it's so cool how this, again, Clark, I love how you brought this up before. It's the same pattern that's always existed. And so the Lord is using it again, and so I love this. He's saying, Look, I want you to look. And now He's talking about another war, but this time it's a war against the people of Enoch. And verse 13 is pretty significant about this war. And my question for you guys ahead of time was, How do you think you would fare if you went to war against Enoch and his people based on verse 13?

Kara Davis 26:12

Well, not well.

Clark Davis 26:14

Short answer is not, not good.

Kara Davis 26:16

I think I would question everything and be like, I think we might be on the wrong side, or we need to employ some different tactics here.

Tammy 26:24

Absolutely. Kara, read verse 13 for us. And as Kara reads 13, I want us to kind of think about it in two different ways, because we have Enoch here, but then I read it again and I thought of Enoch as President Nelson. And so I love, Kara, how you said, we might be on the wrong team. So read this verse for us.

Kara Davis 26:41

7:13 "And so great was the faith of Enoch that he led the people of God, and their enemies came to battle against them; and he spoke the word of the Lord, and the earth trembled, and the mountains fled, even according to his command; and the rivers of water were turned out of their course; and the roar of the lions was heard out of the wilderness; and all nations feared greatly, so powerful was the word of Enoch, and so great was the power of the language which God had given him."

Tammy 27:09

Thank you. First, I'm struck with Enoch's ability to speak, and that God gave him the words and language. I mean, how cool is this that, I just thought, you know what? God is magnifying his consecration. And then we have the fear. So then we have Moses chapter 7, verse 14 tells us that the fear of the enemies of God came upon them. So it's kind of like what you said, Kara. I think they were kind of like, we might not be on the right team. We want to kind of check ourselves. But here's what's interesting is that, then look at verse 15; verse 15, says,

7:15 "And the giants of the land, also, stood afar off;"

Highlight the word 'giants' right here. This is so much fun, because the word giants actually can mean, okay, it could literally mean they were gigantic, huge people. Or, in Hebrew, the word giant is actually translated as Naphthalene, which comes from the root verb NAPHAL, which means to fall down, or to fall.

So one of the ways we could look at this word giants may have been, they could have been fallen ones who had apostatized or fallen away from the true religion. And so I think it's kind of cool when we read about giants in Scripture. It could be absolutely physically tall, gigantic people or people who have fallen away. And then it says in there that the curses fell upon all people that fought against God. And so we know what happens to those who fight against God. And in the next segment, we are going to learn about what happened to those who didn't, who chose the right tea as you said, Kara, so we'll talk about that in the next segment.

Segment 3 28:35

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Tammy 28:44

So did either one of you in school, I can't remember this about you or not Clark, but did either one of you guys play a sport or like to watch sports? Like, I want to know, in your mind, what makes a team?

Clark Davis 28:53

Yeah, so I did play sports. I played rugby. That was back when it was like a club sport that only like 30 people showed up for, so. The thing that I loved about that sport was no matter if even though you were facing a team, and the opposition was great, and you wanted to win, everyone gave a hug to everyone else on the other side of the team at the very end. It was a mutual respect. I learned to play a very tactical game. It was I need to be smart. And I love that aspect of that game. At the very end the common thing is that you go to the pub and you get a root beer with everyone, right? That's the whole concept. So why would you want to go cheap shot somebody when you would have to have kind of this code of conduct.

And I've tried to take that throughout my life and because we get back to the very first question you asked about dedication, like, I try to dedicate like that type of living for myself throughout everything that's like, in rugby, you don't score a touchdown. It's called the try. And the it's really neat because the whole concept is you try. Everything is a try. You're always moving forward in the game of rugby as you go, you can never throw the ball forward, you have to throw the ball backwards. And I think it's a metaphor for life. In order to score, you have to go backwards and you have to keep moving forwards to go forwards, you have to go backwards. And every time you do that, it's a try.

Tammy 30:18

That's all this is; this whole life is a try. Zion is a try. Ah, that's good. That was really good. I didn't know that; I would have been like, it was a goal. Clark, that's awesome. What about you, Kara?

So I didn't play sports growing up. And the interesting thing is now being a mom, having not played sports, you know, as a young girl growing up, I didn't expect that my daughter was, I didn't have that like expectation that she was going to do that, as well. And so when she took an interest in soccer after we moved to Utah, and soccer, I realized was a really big deal here. And I was kind of nervous that she was getting excited about it, because I'm like, You didn't start when you were five; you won't, you won't be able to play soccer, like, no, like, this isn't your thing.

But the other thing I noticed about Grace playing soccer, is that her teammates were the ones that were encouraging her and teaching her new things and teaching her how to be a better soccer player and cheering her on even when she had very little play on the field. And so for me, as a mom now, having not grown up playing sports, and watching, you know, your own child play, it completely changed my view of team sports. And I am like, wow, this has been incredible to watch her play on a team and see how they rally together. It's kind of been a fun thing as a parent to see happen with a, with our child, you know?

Okay. Everything you guys just said I was writing down so fast, because it's perfectly describing what is going on with Enoch's people. I mean, I love it. Like they weren't trying to beat each other out; they were smart. And Kara, I love how you don't have to start when you're five years old to be good at what Enoch's people were good at. And so when we saw Enoch's team, I love how you were, said, Kara, We might be on the wrong team, we should probably rethink this.

So let's go back into Moses chapter 7 and look what the benefits were of being on Enoch's team, and will be of being on the team today. So let's go to Moses chapter 7 still, and we're going to read verses 16-18. And we're each going to take a verse and that's all we're going to talk about are these three verses. We'll start with me, I'll read verse 16. Clark, will you please read verse 17, and then Kara verse 18.

7:16 "And from that time forth there were wars and bloodshed among them; but the Lord came and dwelt with his people, and they dwelt in righteousness.

Clark Davis 32:43

17 "The fear of the Lord was upon all nations, so great was the glory of the Lord, which was upon his people. And the Lord blessed the land, and they were blessed upon the mountains, and upon the high places, and did flourish.

Tammy 32:57

18 "And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them."

Ahhh, there it is. Okay, highlight the word 'Zion'. Zion is our word for the week. So a little bit about it in Hebrew, it's TZION. Or it's a tz at the beginning Tzion, which means a signpost or a monument or a guidepost, which I think is kind of cool. A guidepost is my favorite image associated with this word, because I love to camp and hike. And when I hike, I look for the guideposts at the beginning of the trail, because it's going to tell me first of all, how many miles I'm in for this hike, which makes me decide if I'm going to take it or not. But then when the trailhead starts and when you're on the hike, if the trail goes in a different direction, there's a fork in the road, there will be another guidepost telling you which way to go so you don't get lost. So tell me a little bit about this idea. Like, the Lord calls His people Zion; what stands out to you about this in verse 18?

Kara Davis 33:51

Well, obviously, for me, you know, it's gonna be the "one heart". And in Colossians 2, verse 2, it talks about having, you know, their hearts knit together. And so every time I see the word that "they were of one heart", I immediately have this visual of everyone's hearts in it together. Like a little cute lady with her knitting needles out, you know, knitting the string of hearts. Like that's what's happening. I feel like when you are Zion people is that our hearts are are knit together. We are one, we don't all come from the same place, we don't all come from the same skill set, like thinking about Grace's soccer team. But our hearts are knit together, which means that we're working together to try and understand and, and become one - to become closer.

Tammy 33:52

Oh, I love that. Yeah, I think you're right that their hearts were knit together. I love that analogy of this cute little grandma knitting and binding and uniting. Oh, I like that. What about you, Clark?

Clark Davis 34:52

The thing that I get back to: what did it start with? It started with this premortal center of love. And the plan was put together because of like, at that point that was Zion, because we were in the presence of our Father and our Heavenly Father and our Heavenly Mother. And all of a sudden this creation happens and the world happens and mortality happens. And you start to see Adam and Eve build this, once again, a small microcosm of what we had before. And the pattern is set forward.

And I feel that Zion is we make it probably bigger than it really is, in the sense of, I mean, not bigger, harder, or more difficult or harder to understand. But in all reality, it's just as easy as explaining the family. And it's not necessarily husband and wife, the situation, it's spirit family, it's our Heavenly Father, our Savior, Jesus Christ. It's this heavenly connection, more than it is just a mortality of like a family that we have right now. Right? God just wouldn't allow that, to be that inclusive. That doesn't make sense to me. I don't feel like He's, he's an all-inclusive God. Like, He is very much open. And so anyway, I see that with the Garden of Eden, I see that with Moses, I see that with Enoch. It's just this pattern of Zion, coming to Him for further light and knowledge. That is the key.

Tammy 36:21

You know, Clark, I really appreciate that you said we make it harder than it is. I think you're right, because the result of Zion is in verse 21. That Zion, it says and

7:21 "Zion, in process of time, was taken up into heaven. And the Lord said unto Enoch: Behold, mine abode forever."

Like Zion, the city is lifted off the earth, and is now living with God waiting for the second coming of Jesus Christ. And we think, Oh, that will never be us. But I agree with you, Clark. I think we make it harder than it is. And I mean, I think Zion is a team 100%. And there's a great talk by Elder Christofferson. And I thought it was interesting, because he said,

D. Todd Christofferson: "The whole goal of being Zion is that we build up Zion in our homes, our wards, our branches, our stakes, through unity, godliness, and charity."

Like that's your team. Your Ward is your team. Your steak is your team. But first and foremost, Clark, the family just like you said, that's your team. And we are just here to show each other trick moves, or yeah, how we're going to get that goal. And again, I love this idea of just sitting down and drinking a root beer at the end of the game, Clark, that is such a good visual and root beer is one of my favorite drinks. So I just love that idea. Like, come on, let's have a root beer. That was a tough game, and then a win, what it was, let's win it tomorrow.

Don't you love too, that it says "in process of time"? Like, OK, like, you know, we have these.,it's a new year, right? And we think 2022 and we have all these goals. And we need to get all these things done in this period of time. And we want to be this at the end of the year or, or we're reflecting back on the previous year and we're like, well, we didn't really get everything that we wanted to get done last year. And we're not who we thought we were going to be X, Y and Z, right? It's in process of time. I love that. Zion didn't happen overnight. It won't happen for us overnight. Like, our family won't be perfect overnight. It's in process of time.

And Noah hasn't happened yet, so they're still living for 900 years. Like, it could have taken 400 years, who knows how long. I love that, Kara. That's a great thing to point out. So awesome. Well, and especially when you go back to verse 18, whenever I would read, "there was no poor among them", for me, that was always my socialwork side where I'm like, well, and they all had equal money, and they took care of each other. But I love how in Hebrew, it's kind of cool, because the word in Hebrew for poor is ANI, a n i. And it also can be referring to people who are humble, afflicted or depressed in mind or circumstance. Like there were no people who were depressed in mind or circumstance because they were a team. I just, ahhhh, I love that.

So that's interesting that you brought that up because I did my own like little, you've inspired me to do more Hebrew-ish things.

Thank you, I love it.

Clark Davis 39:01

When I read this, I don't actually associate it with being poor because God doesn't care about money. Like, it's, that's not something that bothers Him. And I think we look at it from a materialistic world of, Oh, well. In order for us to be Zion, there can't be, that there has to be so much money. And it's like, no, I think He wants that out. He wants everyone to be united; He wants everyone to be of one cause. And, but I was redoing a definition look-up here on this and something - and this may be wrong because I was just following someone online, soo this is my apologies, but - the interesting part was, is that it's broken into two words. And the second letter is like NUN, meaning faithful servant.

And so I think that when when they're referring to "no poor among us", it means that there is no one that's not willing to work. And it's people that are willing to be a part of the cause of moving Zion or God's work forward. And to me, it's I think we've done a terrible job of translating the word 'poor' in the Scriptures. Because I think we, it's easy for us to be like, Oh, give your money, give your money, give your money. It's a lot harder to give your time. Give your time. Give your time.

Tammy 40:10

Clark, I completely agree with you. Oh my gosh, thank you for doing your own research on that. That was awesome. So let's just use what you taught us. And let's cross reference it with Moses chapter 7, verse 62. I love that you just brought that up, because look how it describes his elect. Okay, Moses chapter 7, verse 62, He's talking about how the righteous He says,

7:62 ".........will I send down out of heaven; and truth will I send forth out of the earth,"

K. Go past all that to the very last sentence where it says,

"to gather out mine intellect from the four quarters of the earth," (So we're talking about the gathering, we're talking about our day. This is us. He's describing us today. He says), "to gather out mine elect from the four quarters of the earth, unto a place which I shall prepare, an Holy City, that my people may gird up their loins,"

Highlight that. Okay, this is so fun. I love that you just brought this up, Clark, because 'gird up your loins' literally means 'to get ready and to prepare for action'. When you read that, we're talking about the workers Clark, that is exactly what you said. These are a Zion people that are being described. And it says "and be looking forth for the time of my coming; for there shall be my tabernacle, and it shall be called Zion, a new Jerusalem."

So that verse is describing us; it's what you just said, Clark. That was Clark and Kara, so good. That is what we need to - do be willing to work, work for the greater good. That's what we're doing. We're girding our loins to help each other out. So Wow. Awesome discussion. Thank you! So that's Zion, that's our awesome word on Zion. So in the next segment then, we are going to turn, because I like how you said, Kara, in process of time. Because we did have Enoch and his people in process of time. But let's find out in the next segment, what was going on that made it so hard, and that required the time for the people to change. And we'll look at that next.

Segment 4 41:57

.....

Tammy 42:03

So we just went from learning about this really incredible city like, so incredible. But there's a little bit we need to know about how difficult it was, and what the people were going through. And it starts in verse 24. We have 24-26. And we're going to read about what caused a visceral reaction from the Lord, like a physical reaction from the Lord. And it was so surprising to me. But I want us to set this up so that we can see why the Lord reacted the way He did. So let's read verses 24-26. And Kara, will you read that for us?

Kara Davis 42:36

7:24 "And there came generation upon generation; and Enoch was high and lifted up, even in the bosom of the Father, and of the Son of Man; and behold, the power of Satan was upon all the face of the earth.

7:25 "And he saw angels descending out of heaven; and he heard a loud voice saying: Wo be unto the inhabitants of the earth.

7:26 "And he beheld Satan; and he had a great chain in his hand, and it veiled the whole face of the earth with darkness; and he looked up and laughed, and his angels rejoiced."

Wow. Gives you the goosebumps. Spooky.

Tammy 43:13

So spooky. Especially when you consider him laughing. Oh, he's the worst.

Kara Davis 43:22

Truly,

Tammy 43:24

Just the worst. Clark, you have to laugh out loud. No one can see your face.

Clark Davis 43:28

Try not to be distracting, but that was funny.

Tammy 43:30

You can be distracting. He's the worst! Ah, okay. So the earth, it is wicked and people are struggling. And what is the reaction that the Lord has, you two? What word describes what the Lord's doing?

Kara Davis 43:46

He wept.

Tammy 43:47

Yes. How many times did you notice that?

Clark, Kara 43:50

Eight.

Tammy 43:51

Eight different times we find the word weep. What does that tell us about the Lord, that He is weeping in all these verses? In fact, I love verse 28; verse 28's like, why are you weeping? You get it, You're God. Like, you fully understand all of this, tell me why you're crying.

Clark Davis 44:07

I think it's interesting. Like this is something that I think you're seeing Enoch's path to understanding God. And I think that we need to do something similar as individuals that is so important. And I read this and I said to myself, Enoch then spends the next little bit trying to understand the heart of God. Like it's very confusing to him. And he says, like 'the One who can see the beginning to the end, like, what, what are You doing? Like, how could You cry?'

I don't know. It's like when you know the ending to the movie, you don't get sweaty palms and you don't shed tears. I mean, unless it's "All Dogs Go to Heaven", then that no matter what, you'll always have that.

Tammy 44:47

sure. (laughter)

Clark Davis 44:51

But I think that's what the, like, that is the most powerful thing to me is this confusion. Now, he's confused because he's literally been transfigured. He has seen God face to face, and now he's seeing God weep. To me, that might have been a testimony-shaker for Enoch, right? That might have been something that said, Whoe, whoa, whoa; if God weeps, is He really God? And I think a lot of us in our world today say things like that. That's what I got out of it.

Kara Davis 45:18

Well, I thought, yeah, I also got out of it as well that He's real. Like, our, if we are patterned after God, if we are made in His image and His likeness, then, of course, we would have emotions like He does. And so to see that He is weeping in a moment of how like, what is, how sad is this? What is happening to My people? And when I weep, those are the same emotions I'm feeling that God has, like, that connects me to Him to see Him share His raw emotion.

Tammy 45:56

Yeah. Oh, I like how both of you described that. Kara, I so appreciate how you pointed out that it connects us to Him. I love that word. Because you are absolutely right. In fact, let's go to verse 30. There is a phrase that supports exactly what you taught us. So Enoch is asking God, like, why are You weeping? You are the great Creator, You're from all eternity to all eternity. And then right in the middle of verse 30, there is a phrase that is key to all of this. Let's look for and mark this phrase.

7:30 ".....and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there;" So this phrase is what the two of you just taught us. It connects us to God. This is in Scripture, a phraseology that we want to understand. So the word 'bosom' often refers to a person's chest, which covers the heart where your deepest emotions are felt. We know those emotions, we have all felt with our hearts.

And here we have this word being used in connection with the Lord, and so I love how one scholar wrote that when you read that, the phrase "and yet thou art there, and my bosom is there", indicates that although God has created innumerable worlds, He feels deep love and compassion for each one of His children and is close to them. Like He feels such a love and connection, that I feel like, when He's looking at His children who are sinning, I feel like the tears come from the behind the scenes, like the reasons why we make poor choices. I think there's so much more to do with that than the actual sin. Or He sees the sadness that comes in many of our lives because of other people, like that. That's a cause to weep, right?

Kara Davis 47:32

Yeah.

Clark Davis 47:33

Yes. 100%.

Tammy 47:36

And so, I love how Enoch's like, Why are you crying? And the Lord's like, I'll tell you why. Because I love My children, they're My favorite.

Clark Davis 47:45

I think the word that stood out just was the "workmanship of my own hands". And I can't remember what episode it was, but we talked about when you spend time making something, there's, it's, you're giving it, you're giving it something, you're giving it a time. And that's the one thing that we'll never get back is time. And it takes time to create, it takes time to make. And there's a lot of power in that; there's a ton of power in the 'workmanship of his hands'. That, in and of itself is powerful. It's a testimony to me, that I am just another steward of his workmanship, not only my body, but the people and the world and the earth that I live on.

And in verse 41, to me, this is the crowning moment of the book of Moses, for me, I'm not speaking anybody else. But for me, this is the crowning moment. And if I could just read it,

Tammy 48:44

please do.

Clark Davis 48:44

7:41 "And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto Enoch, and told Enoch all the doings of the children of men; wherefore Enoch knew, and looked upon their wickedness, and their misery, and (he) wept, (I added the he) and stretched forth his arms, and his heart swelled wide as eternity; and his bowels yearned; and all eternity shook."

And the thing that really stands out to me is like, the word 'shook' means to overflow. And what did it overflow with? It overflowed with love, and compassion, and long suffering, and mercy, and forgiveness, and all the things. And when you take that context, that you take that verse, and you apply it to Gethsemane, where the Lord lays facedown on the ground, it brings a whole new meaning to 'I am a part of that. I am there.' And Enoch, although is the one standing here, I can also have that same moment and that same opportunity, because I probably will weep when I see my Savior again. And when I touch the, the markings in his hands or the wrist, I'm sure there will be tears and I'm okay with that. Because I've been prepared for it.

Tammy 50:00

Wow, Clark. It is incredible how this has worked today because everyone knows none of this is scripted. You guys don't know what I'm going to talk about. And yet you shared that. And now I have a quote from Elder Neal A Maxwell that supports what you just said, and I am - what the teenagers say - I am shook with how this connects. This is so cool. Kara, will you read this for us?

Kara Davis 50:24

Elder Neal A Maxwell has said, "There are no separate paths back to that Heavenly home, just one straight and narrow way, at the end of which, though we arrive trailing tears, we shall at once be drenched in joy."

Clark Davis 50:38

Wow. That is amazing!

Tammy 50:40

I mean, that's just what you described Clark. I think we will be drenched in tears of joy at that moment. I can't think of any bigger tears I have wept than the tears of repentance. They were sad, and then they turned to joy, like the most incredible tears of goodness that came from that experience. And I love it when "the heart swelled wide as eternity". I have felt that after going through a repentance process. It is the most incredible experience and I'm so grateful I had it.

I would encourage anyone who needs that moment to seek it. For me, it makes me a more appreciative, obviously of the Atonement, but also more compassionate. It makes me more Zion with those who are struggling through those tears. So I love that you just shared that. That was good, really good.

Clark Davis 51:32

Thanks.

Tammy 51:33

Thank you. So in the next segment, then we are just going to continue on in this discussion. And we are going to talk more and find out more about Enoch's vision that he receives.

Segment 5 51:42

.....

Tammy 51:45

How important is it to you guys to rest? Maybe to take naps.

Clark Davis 51:50

I'm looking at you.

Tammy 51:52

Are you a napper?

Kara Davis 51:53

I used to be a napper; I have, I just feel like I haven't really been in a nap routine lately. But I am in this phase of life where I am been, Go Go Go Go Go and have not been resting. And I feel like it's starting to catch up with me. And so he's seeing the word "rest" in the Scripture just makes me feel like, Oh, what I would give to rest, you know? Like Sunday, that is like my sacred day of the week. I look forward to Sundays more than any day of the week because it is, we talk about it being a day of rest. It's the day the Lord rests, and I take that literal. I rest; I just put everything away from the week and just try to focus on my family, on the Lord, and on resting myself because we just get so busy that we forget to rest.

Tammy 52:49

Yeah. And there's nothing better than a Sunday nap.

Oh, true. So true.

What about you, Clark, you love a rest?

Clark Davis 52:56

I'm a huge fan of resting, I rest well. Pretty much an all-star at it. I love it, I think it's really important. I cycle and the way that I get faster and stronger and better is by resting. If I were to ride every day I would burn out and I wouldn't be able to actually perform. So that to have rest days is part of growth. Part of rebuilding.

Tammy 53:18

Well, it was interesting, because in Moses 7, we see the word "rest" appearing. I found it 6 times. So I want you to grab your scripture markers and pens, because we're gonna mark some pretty cool things. And I just want to ask the two of you, how would you sum up the word 'rest', as the way Enoch uses it?

Kara Davis 53:34

Well, it seems like to me that you know, even when it says in verse 48, "When shall I rest, and be cleansed from the filthiness which is gone forth out of me?" I think of like, for the way that Enoch is describing it, rest, meaning the cleansing. And I thought that was really interesting to me. I've never associated 'rest' with a cleanse. But

Tammy 53:56

And wasn't, wasn't, I love that you pointed that out. Because verse 48 was so" So this is the earth speaking., it's not even a person. And the earth, and "heard the voice from the bowels thereof, saying, Wo, wo is me" This is the earth speaking. I thought that was interesting.

Kara Davis 54:15

Yeah, I thought that was very interesting.

Tammy 54:17

And then the earth calls itself "the mother of men". I loved that. "I am pained, I am weary, because of the wickedness of my children. When shall I rest?" Ah, who can't relate? But you're right, this idea of how it was cleansed. And then it says, "When will my Creator sanctify, me that I may rest, and righteousness for a season abide upon my face?" So good. Clark,

Clark Davis 54:42

It's something that when you were talking there, they, to me, the 'rest' is, 'rest' is just a state of not dealing with Satan, to me. It doesn't mean not working. It doesn't mean not moving forward. It just means that I don't, I can rest from trying to keep myself clean, because it's shedding off the filthiness. And it means that I, I don't have to repent because I'm not being tempted, I can just focus.

And I think that there's a state of rest, I get into these all the time where when you go to the temple, it's a state of rest, like, you aren't tempted to look at your phone, you don't have a phone. And you find yourself in these situations of becoming more Zion-like; it is trying to find little moments in your life where you can rest from having to fight Satan. And you can rest from having this filthiness that's always in front of you. And it really gets back to the New Testament for me, where the Savior, I think, really compounds it and puts the cherry on top and He says, you know, be ye of this world and not in this world, or be in this world, not of this world. Right?

Tammy 55:49

Yeah, I love that definition of rest. Both of your definitions have been so powerful because we have, you know, in here all the times you see 'rest', you'll see it in verse 48, verse 54, verse 58. I'm just gonna give these to you guys so you can mark them. Verse 61, we have the word rest again; we have it in verse 64. And Enoch's asking like, When will everything rest? When will I get to rest? When will Your people get to rest? And there are differening times when this rest takes place because this word is so big. I like how in verse 53, I thought this was interesting leading up to the word rest in 54.

Verse 53 says, "And the Lord said: Blessed is he (now circle 'he' - were talking about Noah right there, so,) "blessed is (Noah) through whose seed Messiah shall come; for he saith," (now this blew my mind, highlight,)---"I am the Messiah, the King of Zion, the Rock of Heaven". (Highlight those ways He describes himself, I'll come back to that in a minute) "which is broad as eternity; whoso cometh in at the gate and climeth up by me shall never fall;"

Okay, there's so much about this verse that I love. First of all, when you want to talk about rest, I find rest in the word 'grace'. Like, God gives us grace to rest. But you guys, this is cool. Two scholars pointed out that the way the Lord describes Himself in this verse is, "I am Messiah", "the King of Zion", and then "the Rock of Heaven". And each description of him has 5 syllables. Isn't that cool? I am Messiah, the king of Zion, the Rock of Heaven. And you guys, the number in 5, in Hebrew, is ' symbol for grace'. Like, His very name is Grace. And it is His grace that gives us rest in this life, like, it's not something that we are trying to earn, or that we will get someday down the road. We can have that grace now.

And so then He talks about that "the Son of Man cometh in the flesh" in verse 54, then the earth will rest. Like, yeah, when He comes again, we're going to rest. And how many times has He given us that rest in our own lives through that grace?

Clark Davis 57:52

Well, it's interesting, like, the Sabbath is a day of rest. And it doesn't mean that we don't stop worshiping Him. It's that we only focus on worshiping Him.

Tammy 58:01

Um hmm. Oh, it's so good, so good. What is another way then of looking at rest? We have verse 64. We have another kind of rest right here. It talks about how at the end of 1000 years, the earth shall rest. And this is speaking specifically of a paradisaicle glory rest. That's Article of Faith #10 right there.

Clark Davis 58:20

Does that, question for you on this one. So I've always, if you get back to the Fall, the earth is now riddled with thorns, bristles, and thiers that, and noxious weeds, right, that torment man. Is that what it's meaning, is that we're not going to have weeds anymore? I mean, is it kind of like being able to come back to its original state? And it's the rest from its filthiness, so to speak?

Tammy 58:44

Oh, I really like that. I want to say yes. (laughter)

Clark Davis 58:50

Fantastic!

Kara Davis 58:50

Right, if it's coming back to its glory.

Tammy 58:52

It is, its paradisaical glory, when the lion will lay down with the lamb. We do know that Satan will be bound during the Millennium. And my husband swears that weeds are from Satan. So there's that, there's that truth. (laughs) But, we can also cross-reference it with Ezekiel chapter 36, verse 35, and the Prophet Ezekiel saw our day, he saw the Millennium, and here's what he had to teach us about it.

Ezk 36:35 "And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited."

So there's kind of some wording there that leads us to believe that it will actually be really lovely and glorious.

Clark Davis 59:30

So something else that is very - I find hope in is - so our daughter Grace, she was born with hearing loss. And so she she wears hearing aids to be able to make up for that. And I hope for the day when she can hear with her natural ears. And she's no longer - and I don't mean this in the bad way, but I'm going to use the word because I don't know a better way to say it, it's a scripture - but she is tormented by that. I mean that is something that she has to live with every day of her life. And I can't wait for her to then have that rest from trying to battle a mechanical noise and being able to hear life. And so I think, for me, this means a lot when you can rest and you can shed and you can be who you are meant to be. Just like the earth is going to go to its paradisaical glory, we also can. And I think that's a beautiful I mean, that's beautiful to me.

Kara Davis 1:00:25

And I also love thinking about, like, I love the comparison of the earth, I mean, where else in the scriptures or ever have we heard the earth speak? I think that's just, I mean, to me, that's kind of magical, really, and beautiful at the same time. But I think about the earth currently in its state, it's in such tumult. There are so many things happening on the earth, even just physically, not even with us, you know, within our own lives, but just physically on the earth with natural disasters and fires. It's being scorched, it's being, mountains are falling into the ocean, and the ocean is lapping up, all of these things happening, right? And I think of, you know, the earth saying, When can I rest? When can all of this be done with?

And I think about our own lives ,and our own lives and our own individual things spinning out of control, and tumults, and earthquakes, and avalanches, and all these things happening in our own life. And for me, it would be like, speaking on behalf of the same as the earth like, rested. When can I rest from all of that? That's what rest is, to not have to deal with all the anxieties and hardships that come from being, you know, human, and being in this fallen state?

Tammy 1:01:41

You're absolutely right. I mean, there isn't a person listening right now, who doesn't have something in their life they'd like a rest from. Mental illness. I mean, there's so many things that, we are that earth. Like, how much longer am I going to have to do this? When will I get to rest? And there's some great cross-references. You can cross reference this to Alma, chapter 40, to Alma, chapter 12. Alma, chapter 13,

Clark Davis 1:02:05

Your Book of Mormon lessons from two years ago, you called this out in verse 6 of chapter 13 of Alma, and it just, while you connected to - you love connectors, that's my favorite. If you look at verse 2, and it says, "thereby, the people", and then you connect it with verse 6 at the very end, where it says "children of men that they may also enter the rest", you basically referenced that the children of men is all; it's everyone. And you're being brought in by His priesthood, which is God. And so that's how you get to the eternities is through that priesthood. And I thought that was a really neat connector.

Tammy 1:02:27

Oh, my gosh, Clark, it is, because then that priesthood is, it comes to us by way of Zion, each other, it's needing each other. We can not do it on our own. Oh, my gosh, I love that. I just had that aha. Like it's Zion that will help us to rest, but then that rest will be the reward of seeing God face to face. Oh, my gosh, I just made a full connection. Ah, Clark, I love that you connected us through that. Wow! That is good stuff.

Clark Davis 1:03:07

Thanks. Appreciate it. It was all because of you, two years ago.

Tammy 1:03:11

Thank you. I can't remember anything I teach anyway, you know that about me in seminary - what did we talk about last time? Oh, my gosh, that was so good. Okay, well, this is so cool. Because in the next segment, then, we're going to talk about all of the different comings of Christ that are going to bring about rest, but ultimately, the last and final coming is what Enoch's gonna see. We'll talk about that in the next segment.

Segment 6 1:03:31

..,...

Tammy 1:03:45

So I'm going to play the beginning of a children's hymn and the reason why I'm playing this is because this is what Enoch asked over and over again. See if you can name the song. Do you remember that song?

I just love that. "I Wonder When He Comes Again" That's what it's called, When He Comes Again. I had to play that song at the beginning because it seemed like to me, did you guys get this too, Enoch just kept saying, 'But when are You coming? Let's get the show on the road. Like, I think the people are ready.' And the Lord is like, 'Alright, now. There's a couple of different times I'm going to be coming.' And so we're going to mark these in Moses chapter 7.

So in verse 45, Enoch does ask, Okay, well, when shall the day of the Lord come? And then we have it in verse 47; highlight verse 47, and put to the outside 'the birth of Christ'. That's what that verse is describing. It's the birth of Jesus Christ. And in that verse, it may seem a little confusing because it does say, "and the lamb is slain from the foundation of the world;" And the reason that this is in 'the birth of Christ' verse is something to teach is powerful, which is, the power of Christ's Atonement was from the beginning of the world. And it continues on, like it didn't happen when he was born.

And then we have the Lord telling Enoch,"even so will I come in the last days". Let's go find that. It's in Moses chapter 7, verses 60-62. That's where He says, I will come in the last days. So on the outside of these two verses, label it, Second Coming. Now the next verses we need to mark are 63-64, where the Lord describes events associated with the millennium. And this to me is the reunion of all reunions that Enoch will be a part of. Kara, will you read verse 63 for us.

Kara Davis 1:05:42

7:63 "And the Lord said unto Enoch: Then shalt thou and all thy city meet them there, and we will receive them into our bosom, and they shall see us; and we will fall upon their necks, and they shall fall upon our necks, and we will kiss each other."

Tammy 1:05:57

Ahhhh. So Zion, Enoch's people will come down out of heaven and join us in the New Jerusalem. And that - I even put to the outside 'reunion of all reunions'. I asked you earlier to come having prepared and pondered on what we need to do before we meet, before we see Christ again and the Zion people. And so Clark, read for us 66 and 67.

Clark Davis 1:06:21

7:66 "But before that day he saw great tribulations among the wicked; and he also saw the sea that it was troubled, and men's hearts failing them, looking forth with fear for the judgments of the Almighty God, which should come upon the wicked.

67 "And the Lord showed Enoch all things, even unto the end of the world; and he saw the day of righteous, the hour of redemption, and received a fullness of joy;"

Tammy 1:06:47

Thank you. Now we know the signs right there. I mean, did verse 66 describe our day or what?

Kara Davis 1:06:52

Um-hm. You know, what's also interesting is that my dad is just coming out of a really hard time of being really sick. And he was in and out of the hospital. And at one point, he was put back in the hospital because his heart wasn't working correctly. He was in what they call A-Fib and so his heart was beating way faster than it should have and they couldn't get it to regulate, and they tried all sorts of different medications to get his heart to beat in a normal rhythm. One morning, the nurse came in and said, Did you feel that in your heart? And he said, You know, I don't, I don't know what you're talking about? And she said, Well, at 8:03, I think was the time was 8:03 am, your heart literally stopped for three seconds and reset itself back to a normal rhythm.

And so I, you know, and the doctor said, You know, you had heart failure, so to speak. And so I think that that word of their heart shall fail them has even more meaning to me of, you know, literally people having their physical hearts fail and what that means, to then think about that in a spiritual aspect and what it takes to have our hearts fail and what that feels like to be out of sync and out of rhythm, and then to have a reset. I think that's, to me, it brings a new light, and new meaning after going through this experience with my dad.

Tammy 1:08:16

Let's discuss this a little bit. I love the direction this is going. When you talk about someone's heart failing them, I love how you just described that with your dad. I mean, that and that he had a reset, now that intrigues me. Clark, tell me a little bit about your thoughts, when you think about someone's heart failing them.

Clark Davis 1:08:35

Where it really comes down to moment of vulnerability is, I'm afraid of losing hope, because I feel like that's something that I need every day. And the fact that it could go away? It's something, that's something that's, that makes me nervous. And I always, that's why I'm obedient, or at least trying to be is so that I can have hope. Because I know that obedience is the #1 law of God. I mean, you, that 1990s like, pounded into your face type thing. But I look at it from a standpoint of, I hope for a better day; I hope that I can be there; I hope that when I get there. And it's just all this hope, and I don't know. That four-letter word means a lot to me, because it actually makes me want to live for Him. And I think that's what He's asked me to do. And so that's why I fear that most, because that's all I have in the end.

Tammy 1:09:35

I want you to connect this experience of having your hearts failing you, back to when you were going through this dark time - when you've been doing everything you could to have your prayers answered to have more children. Did you worry that your heart would fail you?

Kara Davis 1:09:47

Oh, for sure.

Clark Davis 1:09:48

Everything else was failing,

Tammy 1:09:49

Right.

Kara Davis 1:09:50

I mean, my body was literally failing me and you're doing anything that anyone tells you to do, you know, holding on to hope, right? And so I feel like when we were in that dark time it was, our faith was the only thing that could help pull us through that. And if it weren't for our faith and our belief that the Savior is really who He is, and that we have a Heavenly Father who loves us and wants us to become like Him and to return home, then I don't think we would have been able to come out of that dark time in our life. I think our hearts would have failed us because

Clark Davis 1:10:31

because every, every visit was a fail. I mean,

Kara Davis 1:10:34

Right. We just had been experiencing failure.

Clark Davis 1:10:37

Every investment was a fail; every every dollar, every check, I mean, everything. It just wasn't working. I mean, I don't know, after seven years of nothing work, I mean, and then you have to continue to carry on?

Kara Davis 1:10:48

I think that tying it back in, it all came down to our hope and our faith in Christ and having our hearts knit to Him. Really.

Tammy 1:11:02

Absolutely, because I think it's interesting in that verse that gives us the signs of the Second Coming, specifically to say that men's hearts are failing them. That is real. And I think that both of you have eloquently and wonderfully shared throughout this whole podcast today, that for you, it's about that word about hope, and being dedicated. You both reminded me of a line back in verse 53, when I said I just, I love this verse so much, and I wanted to really study it. So another reason that I love it is where it says "whoso cometh in at the gate and climbeth up by Me shall never fall". And for me, this is little children, the little ones. When you think of little kids that climb up, and they just sit on your lap and they nestle in; they feel like they're safe, and they're trusting that they're with someone they can trust.

And I'm just imagining you, like cute little Clark and cute little Kara just climbing up and trusting in the Lord. And I just feel like you both have demonstrated that throughout this discussion with your stories and your testimony. And He just, He wants us, He wants us to climb up and stay where we can be safe. And that is exactly what it is; that's how we end this whole Moses chapter 7, is verse 69. And because of Enoch's dedication, look at what the result was. Clark, will you please read verse 69.

Clark Davis 1:12:21

7:69 "And Enoch and all his people walked with God, and he dwelt in the midst of Zion; and it came to pass that Zion was not, for God received it up into his own bosom; and from thence went forth meat went for the saying, ZION IS FLED."

Tammy 1:12:39

Look at all of us just walking with God.

Clark Davis 1:12:42

Yep.

Kara Davis 1:12:43

That's it.

Clark Davis 1:12:44

The thing that really puts it all encompassing, for me is the New Testament where - I love the New Testament - but he says, "I do nothing of myself, except for I see my Father do." And He's asked us to do the same. And I think that we will once again be able to rise into the heavens, and into the Councils where we once reigned. And our ability to say I have only done that which I have seen my Father and my Brother. And now I can do that.

Tammy 1:13:13

That was so beautiful. For those of you listening, that wasn't even what we're going to talk about, just FYI. The whole segment, the last segment, we just threw out the window, and we talked, and it was awesome. So thank you. Thank you, Kara. Thank you, Clark for being with us today. Oh, it was good. Okay, gather your thoughts and then we're just going to ask you real quick, What was your takeaway from today, something that you learned or that you'll remember?

Kara Davis 1:13:39

For me, it all comes back to the heart for me, and where our hearts are and having our hearts knit to God. And, you know, there's this quote by Elder Rasband that he told us to take heart. And that if we live in perilous times to just stay on the covenant path that you know, as troubled times come, if we just stay on the covenant path that all will be made right. And I think about Enoch, and not only seeing Him face to face, but walking with God, and God dwelling in their presence. That for me, in these perilous times gives me so much hope and so much - really excitement - to think that if I can stay on the covenant path and take heart and not be overwhelmed by all that is happening around me or in the world or in our lives, that I can see Him face to face and walk beside Him.

Tammy 1:14:33

Wow.

Clark Davis 1:14:34

Beautifully said, babe.

Kara Davis 1:14:35

That's everything to me.

Tammy 1:14:38

Everything. I love that, I'm writing at the top of my page "take heart". So good. Thank you.

Clark Davis 1:14:48

For me that - I'll try to keep this very simple - but it's a, this has opened my eyes to I am a microcosm of Adam and Noah and Moses and Enoch and everyone. And going all the way back to the beginning, if you see God separate things in the creation, it's part of the process, there is a separation process. We are then separated from Him when we go through the veil. And then when we get here, He gives us our hope, which is our Savior. And that once again, Moses 5, where we will then once again be able to see God in the flesh.

And it's about bringing things back together. And it's about making sure that we understand that you see Adam and Eve be brought together. You see the light and the darkness, being separated. And then you see Christ coming back and getting rid of darkness altogether. You see the Mother Earth, she's separated, she's toiling, and then all of a sudden, this glory comes back. And she then can rest again. And you see animals being able who are enemies, and now they can be back together. And they can be one with each other.

And ultimately, we, let's break it even down to the lowest common denominator, which is us and our Savior, we are now brought back to Him, and so that we can be with our Heavenly parents again, and live with Him for the next whatever, duration of time. That's what Moses 7 was for me; it was this reunification process, that I was separated, and I can come back and I have to have hope. My heart has to be open, I may weep. And I will, one day get my rest, but ultimately my rest will be coming back to Him.

Tammy 1:16:45

Wow, beautifully summed up. Thank you, Clark. And thank you, Kara, for that. It is Take Heart, I love that idea of heart. I loved, Clark when you taught us about rugby, that it's a try. And I will always remember that, that it's just a try. We're just, we're doing the best we can so, and then to drink a root beer with the opposing, like, you have to be nice. I just I really like that.

And then Kara, you really hit me when you shared your experience at the beginning about how you named your daughter Grace, and that "My grace is sufficient". I just, it really is; His grace is enough. And I think that applied to this whole lesson today. That His grace, His rest, His goodness for all of us will be sufficient for all of this. And going back to what you said, Clark, bringing all back this reunification process can only come by way of grace. So, what a sweet blessing. I love that. I love you both! What a great episode, holy cow that was good!

Okay, so of course, we would love to hear what your big takeaway was from this episode. So if you're not following us on Instagram or Facebook, just go do it. Just create a page so that you can follow what people are saying and questions that people are asking because it's so awesome. And then you can share your takeaway, you can share it in the middle of the week, which some people do, which is I love that because I already have one and they have to share it. Or every week at the end of the week on Sunday, we do a post that calls for your big takeaway. So comment on the post that relates to this specific lesson. And let us know what you've learned. And I read all of them and I love it.

You can get to our Facebook and Instagram by going to our show notes for this episode on LDS living.com/sundayonMonday. And if you go there, you can also find the links to all the references that we used, as well as a complete transcript of this whole discussion. And if you continue to scroll down on that page, you'll find all of the names of the books of the Old Testament in Hebrew, as well as all of our glue-ins that we have for you. So go check that out.

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus Original and it's brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our incredible study group participants were Kara and Clark Davis. And you can find more information about my friends at LDS living.com/sundayonMonday. Our podcast is produced by Erika Free and me, and it is recorded and mixed by Mix At Six Studios and our Executive Producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here, we'll see you next week.

And please remember little one, that you are God's favorite!

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