Mormon Manners

LDS Living staff - March 19, 2011

Photo from LDS Living 2011.

We at LDS Living were curious about etiquette within Mormon culture. With the help of our readers and Facebook friends, we’ve tackled a few situations that seem to come up on a regular basis.

Electronics at Church
Some members have embraced the new wave of smart phones and iPads, using these devices to store scriptures, manuals, and other LDS apps. (Many of our readers shared how these devices have blessed their lives, engaged their families more in the scriptures, or saved them from the arthritic pain of carrying heavy scriptures.) Others, including some bishops and stake presidents, insist that scriptures are not scriptures unless they are made of paper and bound in a book. So are electronics appropriate at church?

LDS Living Facebook friend Monica Brackner Talley writes, “In the past six months I have used a smart phone instead of carrying a big heavy tote of scriptures and manuals. But I see many [who are] distracted by people sending messages and looking on the Internet.”

Similarly, Facebook friend Diane Crofts comments, “I don’t mind if [these devices] are for reading scriptures, but I dislike it when I see people answering and sending texts or e-mails during church. [It’s] very disrespectful.”

The general consensus is that using electronic devices in church is acceptable, as long as the people using them are focusing on the topic at hand. If you can’t resist the urge to shoot off a text or play a round of Angry Birds, then stick to the classic form of scriptures and manuals instead.

Leaving Meetings Early
General conference. Stake conference. A large fireside. There are plenty of occasions when we know that after receiving spiritual enlightenment we can be snarled in traffic for what seems like an eternity. At LDS Living, it has been our observation that sneaking out before the closing prayer to beat the rush has become commonplace, but it is still unacceptable. One of our staffers remembers attending a BYU devotional where one of the brethren chastised students who headed for the exits during the closing hymn. “Where are you going? The meeting is not over,” he declared. So unless you have a true emergency, stay seated until after the closing prayer, and have a little more patience with your fellow drivers.

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“Family Pews” and Saving Seats
Finding a place for your family to sit during sacrament meeting or stake conference can be a frustrating experience—particularly if you’re a family of nine. And if you’re a family of nine who has recently moved into a new ward, you run the risk of accidentally usurping someone else’s “usual” pew.

LDS Living Facebook friend Amy Wilson Marshall writes, “We moved to a large ward a few years ago and still struggle to find a place each week. . . . What I find most frustrating is when the ‘campers’ sit right in the middle of the chapel so a large family like mine has to squeeze into two short rows. In our ward . . . they show up fifteen minutes early, leave their scriptures on the pew, and go into the hall to socialize. Very frustrating for a mother of seven!”

It’s true that most of us like to sit in the same area, if not the same row, each week. But Facebook friend Brittney Meyer McOmber thinks we should “mix it up.” She writes, “None of us own a pew and [we should not] get upset if someone is sitting in the place that we [typically] sit in. Sometimes due to disabilities, people do need to sit in certain areas. But most of the time, that isn’t the case. It’s fun sitting in different places every week!”

If you enter the chapel to discover that someone has taken “your” seat, simply find another seat nearby. There are very few circumstances we can think of where it would be appropriate to ask someone to move.

For all you seat savers out there, do so in moderation. When saving seats at a movie theater, a general rule of thumb is one person should not save more than two seats. We think this is a good rule for church meetings as well. Whether at the movies or at stake conference, it’s frustrating for others who have arrived early to discover one woman and her jacket spread out in a desperate attempt to claim an entire row.

The reason for etiquette is so you don’t detract from who you are as a person,” says Anna King. Instead of being distracted by the negative, she says, “etiquette allows people to see the positive things about you.”

Everyone wants to make a good impression—and by being aware of certain codes of conduct, we can achieve the desired results. But remember that etiquette is a two-way street. When others make a social misstep, be slow to take offense. Most of us are doing our best to navigate a rapidly changing world. With patience and understanding from one another, we can all do so with a little more grace.

*Join us on Facebook, and leave a comment below of your own “Mormon manners” thoughts.

© LDS Living 2011.
Comments 54 comments

dbwalton said...

10:04 AM
on Mar 19, 2011

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I would agree with all of those, and I have a few to add too. How about, not asking church members who own businesses to give you a discount because you are a member? What message does that send to non-members? And, we are repeatedly reminded about Monday nights. So, I add my reminder. Please, don't conduct church business on Monday nights knowing you are going to catch us at home. Unless some one died and their funeral is on Tuesday, I really think it can wait until Tuesday to call me.

southgalds said...

10:15 AM
on Mar 19, 2011

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I also agree with all above, but you left out problems with perfumes and colognes. These products are highly poisonous to chemical sensitive members or asthmatic members. Relief Society rooms worse than the chapel. I am tired of going home with a migraine each Sunday! It gives the term "weapons of mass destruction" a whole new meaning!

chrisjan said...

10:25 AM
on Mar 19, 2011

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Another angle on seat saving: We have attended other wards as guests and find it so embarrassing to sit in an empty seat only to be moved by the family who think they 'own' it. Or worse, to get the furtive angry glances from a family we have accidentally misplaced. More than a few times we arrived early for a primary program, walked towards the front to sit where we could see the grandkids, and find row after row of scriptures and bags and sweaters 'marking' someone else's territory. It all seems quite unfriendly in a place where we learn to love others as ourselves.

alikona said...

10:26 AM
on Mar 19, 2011

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I, too, am a little baffled by "surfers" at church -- but I ask that we be cautious in judging. Because of our late afternoon meeting time and our time-consuming callings, my husband and I occasionally and very discreetly text each other to coordinate caring for our babies in the hall/nursery/primary. Our hands are so full. And as a nursery leader, I submit that it would be much less distracting to a Sunday School class if I texted a parent when their child was screaming vs. going into the class to find them.

cindilouhoo said...

11:23 AM
on Mar 19, 2011

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I'd like to address Mormon Manners when it comes to ward activities, such as pot lucks, etc. in the gym. In the past few years I've noticed a disregard in keeping one's children from running around the gym or on the stage area while there is a dinner or other activity going on. Not only is it hard to hear what is being presented but it is also difficult to walk to a table with a plate of food when a child runs in front of you. Just because an activity is in the gym does not make it a 'sporting event'. Having a children's activity area during this type of ward activity can be a great idea. But I think better parent responsibility is in order as well.

saifai said...

12:06 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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In regards to surfers, I will ask other members not to jump to conclusions. I have a smartphone that I use the memopad application to take notes on during talks of important points, or things I'd like to remember of what was said. More than once I've either got an angry glance or a lecture from someone who'd assumed I was surfing the internet.

tumo said...

12:39 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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How about everyone minds their own business and tries to be respectful of others when making decisions about their own actions. Problems solved.

nanato15 said...

01:04 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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A big YES to cindilouhoo!! I hate going to ward parties, because of the running, screaming children. When my children were young, they had to stay with us and sit at the table or whatever. They were NOT allowed to run around. They are passing that rule on to their children. It is especially annoying when we are trying to listen to a program. Parents-discipline your children!! Just because you are in a gym doesn't mean that running and screaming is appropriate. Ditto for playing on and jumping off the stage!!

shender25 said...

01:18 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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Living in a ward with 150+ primary aged children, we have had problems with children running around the cultural hall/stage/hallways during ward activities. We have incorporated a few ideas into our activties to promote respect from the children and they seem to have worked, at least a little bit! When appropriate, we have asked ward members to dress "business casual". For some reason, wearing a little dressier clothing seems to help! When families enter the gym for an activity, we hand them a little box of crayons and some coloring sheets. It seems to keep the little ones sitting down, quiet and occupied!

senecasis said...

01:28 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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Good points in the article, and good comments. I agree with all. However, I have one more to add regarding Mormon Manners: Perhaps I'm just fortunate to live in a ward/area in which I can attend Sacrament, Sunday School and Relief Society and actually HEAR and listen to the talks and lessons being given; because I am annoyed and appalled by the noise, movement, and general disrespect for reverence I witness when traveling (especially in Utah). I've had this disrespect explained away as being due to having so many children in a ward. But it's not just the young children (e.g.: under age 5) who are the perpetrators of irreverence--it's the teens who giggle and whisper, the adults who constantly audibly "shhh" their children (this can be done instead without noise and a simple finger held over the lips to indicate quiet), adults who actively play with babies to make them giggle, carry on whispered conversations with one another or a child, or sit in the front only to constantly walk in and out. Indeed, young children need to be taught reverence; but a constant barrage of shushes apparently doesn't work if their noise continues--kids know when they're getting away with something and will continue to do it. Teaching and PRACTICING reverence and quiet needs to be done first in the home, along with determining consequences for constantly or blatantly ignoring this "rule". Babies will make noise on their own just because they are babies--they don't need encouragement from adults to make more. If an adult wants to play with a baby instead of listen to the speaker or teacher, then they should take the baby outside the chapel or classroom. Yes, even babies can sense and learn when it's time to be quiet. Example is powerful. It's even more powerful if children and youth observe adults being reverent and respectful of not only the speakers/teachers, but also their fellow members who have come to church to worship and learn. Adults who feel they must tell their friends all about so-and-so who did this-and-that, or their vacation last week (or whatever) during Sacrament Meeting or classtime are NOT setting a positive example. Nor are they being respectful of those around them. These conversations should take place before or after church, on the phone, or while getting together with each other outside of the chapel. And, finally, PLEASE turn off cell phone ringers when in church. If you MUST take a call due to personal circumstances or professional obligations, PLEASE do so quietly and discreetly. Remember that our church meetings are primarily for us to worship and increase our knowledge of the gospel. The chapel is the Lord's house. Unnecessary talking, noise, and walking in and out are distractions and are disrespectful of not only our Heavenly Father, but also those who've come to worship and learn.

skeletonchaser said...

02:04 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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I second your remarks Senecasis. I also second the remarks about the "seat-savers" at Stake Conference and the "pew-owners". It would seem that is pretty much universal. We are a small branch outside of Utah in the Midwest. We are fortunate to have our own building---with excellent accoustics in the Sanctuary. I have a problem with constant tinnitus, so it is not easy for me to hear the speaker when a toddler begins to shrieking--very loudly or children running in and out of the meeting opening and closing the doors constantly. It does not seem to bother the parents---they just sit there and let the child run up and down the ramp to the platform or around the room gleefully shrieking to the top of her lungs--no big deal. We do have a room with speaker in it to take disruptive children, but it is not used by any of the parents. I have also noted of late the casual attitude in the appearance of our members for Church meetings. This past Sunday, one YA sister came in pajama bottoms and sweatshirt top. More and more of the adult sisters show up to Sat session of Stake Conference wearing pantsuits or bluejeans. I know in past Conference talks by the General Authorities the subject of flip-flops and inappropriate dress has come up in regards to our youth. But---it's not just youth who come dressed like they are going to the beach; the adults do it too.

anonymous138 said...

02:24 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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Thank your for the part about "family pews" and saving seats. As a single woman, I've been in some wards where it is very hard to find a place to sit! I've had families come in and tell me that I'm in their spot, and sometimes when I've asked families if they would mind if I sat at the end of the pew (or just saw an empty space and sat down), they've told me that their children need the extra room to spread out their stuff, or that it's too distracting to have a non-family member sitting next to them. It's really awkward and embarrassing to not be able to sit anywhere. I know other singles who have stopped coming church because they just don't feel welcome when no one will let them sit by them. I really don't even care if the people next to me are texting or if their kids are screaming or what they are wearing - I just want to be able to come to church and have a place to sit and feel like I'm welcome! I'm in a branch now where this is not a problem, but in the past it has been very discouraging.

aweswoman said...

04:43 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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I am so glad these issues have been addressed in this forum. I will share with my Relief Society President and see if things can be improved. Also, I want to bring awareness to the rudeness of leaving babies' dirty diapers inside the church buildings, even in the garbage receptacles. Please, if you pack it in, then pack it out.

juston said...

05:45 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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Not a Mormon here, but this is all incredibly petty. How much time do you spend a day examining your own navel?

tussockgal said...

05:55 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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All I can say is "ditto" to the article and all of the above. My little penny's worth is to reiterate the importance of what southgalds said... PLEASE take the perfume/cologne/aftershave remark seriously. Liberal application aside, imagine how a small amount of fragrance on just 50% of the crowd can impact the air in a confined space. I suffer from multiple chemical sensitivity and chronic bronchitis, and sometimes I have to leave a classroom or even the chapel because of overpowering chemical frangrances causing migraines and asthma-type attacks. I also want to appeal to people to be more tolerant and less judgemental of PERCEIVED wrong-doing as in the case of the use of electronic devices. If you don't know, don't assume the worst. And if you do know for sure, approach the person in love and have a quiet, kind word, rather than casting angry glances. Kindness and respect toward each other, rememering why we go to church and taking care not to be irreverent and flippant in our worship will go a long way to solve these problems and making Sundays a good experience for all. We are members of Heavenly Father's Kingdom. It makes us family, and family should be a safe place.

wigglebug said...

06:07 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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I guess we could bring our kids to church in a cat carrier or a dog crate and have them hog tied? Come on, try to be a bit more compassionate towards parents and mind your own business.

smudge said...

06:33 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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I think we need to be careful about judging people - and what and why they do things - how do you know that family who is taking the whole row and doesn't want the "distraction" of a non-family member doesn't have an austic child who can't cope with strangers or that "surfer" isn't googling something that was mentioned in class that didn't make sense to them - i know one day I sat in sunday school and went on to the church web site to check the institute manuals as my understanding had been different from the teachers and I wanted to see who was actually right!

cookiegrandma said...

09:08 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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As a convert I miss the quiet. When we entered the sanctuary the organ was playing and folks sat down and were quiet. Visiting took place after the meeting in the foyer or outside. Mormons on the other hand are conducting "business" right up to the moment the bishop stands up. Report your home teaching, pass out thank you notes, arrange playdates and exchange news in the foyer, PLEASE. In Utah wards these people all live within a few blocks of you and you can chat other places. Also, if your baby is making noise and I turn to look, don't get the wrong idea. I may just be enjoying a cute baby and remembering "the day" when mine were with me. I'm just glad you're bringing your children to church. It does bother me when older children and teens are coming and going during the meeting. They should be able to go to the bathroom and get a drink before the meeting and then wait until afterwards unless they're sick in which case they should be at home.

imgohn said...

09:52 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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Come on there Brothers and Sisters, please let's remember that we are our Brothers keeper. Let's stop being Petty and love one an another. I have lived in about 15 different wards in about 18 years sense becoming a member of this Great And Awesome Church. I have children and have never had all these problems. What do you all think our Heavenly Father would foo to solve all of these quarrels. Let's us not cast the first stone!!!

sweetpea said...

09:52 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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Not a Mormon here, either and I want to know why you don't have children's church or classes for kids & nursery for the babies during the service? You can't expect small children to remain still & quiet during an adult service. They're bored to death!

survivorman said...

10:08 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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Yes great article, with the electronics, it's a good way to learn the gospel if use it right, and not abuse it in church,makes learning the gospel etc more interesting.With people saving seats, well , we are there for church, it's not a booking theatre, we don't own the church and it belongs to the Lord..so i think members should wake up and realise that.

waterlew said...

10:57 PM
on Mar 19, 2011

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Great article. and Wigglebug (above) Please note. It is quite insightful that we as LDS need to be reminded of manners, that most other denominations just do normally. We become so accustomed to discourtious behavior that we accept it as norm and forget about it until we bring someone from another denomination to visit and then reality usually smacks us in the face. Maybe take your children to most any other church for refresher course some time; that will do alot more than "shuuses" do. Two other items which could be in s follow up article is showing more respect by the way we dress. "Sunday best" has become way to casual in many cases, especially with youth. And...leaving in the middle of someones performance or talk. Very Disrespectful.

daddyshark said...

12:06 AM
on Mar 20, 2011

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I have two grown boys that I taught to act respectfully in public places. I know that trying to get kids to sit still is like trying to nail jello to a tree (James Dobson) but what I have issue with is the parents who allow their cute little kids to escape down the isles during Sacrament meeting. I don't blame the kid, I blame the parent. Every kid can pull a Houdini now and then but I find it a test to control my resentment of the habitual offenders and one day I'll overcome it. I hope. It's a chance for me to grow I suppose.

zataar said...

01:19 AM
on Mar 20, 2011

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While it is fine to articles to 'remind' us or inform of appropriate behaviour, judging by alot of the comments here, I think everybody needs to have a little more compassion. I mean come on, this is not the temple, this is the one place families and children are allowed to attend. Everybody is growing and trying all the time, sometimes we get it wrong, and sometimes we get it right too. Recently in our Relief Society, the old bitties made a big deal about reverence and keeping our little ones "sitting down" lol. This made myself and the other young mums very uncomfortable in Relief Society and we felt as though we had to spend the last hour someplace else. Not a nice feeling when we come there to be spiritually nourished to face the week again as fulltime mums. Yes we all know the ideal way church should happen, but people need to have a little bit more understanding and instead of judging and disapproving how about offer a helping hand???

anonymous138 said...

07:46 AM
on Mar 20, 2011

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I'm not sure why my earlier comment isn't showing up, so I'll try again. What I had said was that as a single woman, I appreciate what the article said about not saving seats/pews. It's very hard for us singles sometimes to find a place to sit when families won't allow us to sit next to them, and I know singles who have stopped coming to church because it's really embarrassing and discouraging to have people tell you that you can't sit in their pew over and over again. After a few tries of, "Do you mind if I sit next to you?" and hearing, "We need the space for our kids to spread out," or, "We prefer to only have family sitting next to us," it's hard not to just give up and go sit in the lobby.

mimi said...

08:28 AM
on Mar 20, 2011

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I thought that the reason for going to church was to honor Cod and to give and receive encouragement, uplifting and support. Now I know that we are creatures of habit and can be uncomfortable with change, but if laying claim to a seat makes someone else uncomfortable or to feel unwelcome is that right? If wearing chemical scents makes us feel good but causes those around us to suffer is that good? Jesus said let the little children come to him, but expecting them to sit still and quiet for three or more hours when they have not yet learned respect for others may be a bit much to expect. We must ask ourselves however, are the parents doing all they can to prevent distractions and are the distracted trying not to be? Maybe if we could all try to judge less and love more church could be for us what God intended. And as an inactive member who was considering returning, thank you for refreshing my memories. Wishing love and kindness to all and remember that saints are sinners who keep on trying.

airhead said...

09:14 AM
on Mar 20, 2011

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I have read the above comments with interest especially the part about the noisy children. a few years ago I was listening to a talk radio show where a women was complaining about children in the congregation were she attended (I don't believe it was LDS) she stated that Children had no place in Church where people were trying to worship. How sad is that? There may be many reason for a child to be disruptive, as Later Day Saints we sometimes have several Wards in one building which would mean that we sometimes must attend Church during, a child's nap time or just before nap time when they are cranky etc. I have lived in the same Ward for over 40 years and have sat in Sacrament Meeting with noisy, disruptive children and Shushing parents and I must admit that as a parent and grandparent I have often been the adult with unhappy noisy children and I admit also to shushing. over the years I have been happy and proud to watch those same boys and girls grow to respectful, reverent and delightful young men and women who give excellent talks and go on missions etc. I listen to the noise made by the children in our Ward and feel proud that we bring our children to our worship services where they learn to be reverent in the Lords house.

jernetarie said...

09:25 AM
on Mar 20, 2011

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I have an 11 year old son that we just found out is ADHD. When he was 4, my husband was in Afghanistan with the military. Trying to get this young man to sit through Sacrament was unachievable, and as a "Single Mother" for the time, I ended up not coming to church, because it was just to hard, to keep my child quiet and reverent. I got tired of all the dirty looks I was getting from everyone else in the Chapel, and no one would help me with the problem. When Dad got home to help we started coming again. So, if I notice that a parent is having trouble with a child, and there isn't anyone closer, I try to help. I have even gone clear around the chapel to get someone else's child, so they have an adult to sit with, when the parent is going to be up on the stand speaking or with the choir. If you notice someone is struggling, help, don't judge.

chickson said...

09:29 AM
on Mar 20, 2011

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I'm certainly glad that the children do attend our Sacrament Service. The parents however,need to teach their children to be respectful of being in the Sanctuary. It is easy to see those parents that work with their children to show respect and those that don't. One peeve of mine that hasn't been addressed is that in all of the Ward activities that include potluck, dinners, or whatever, when the blessing is said, the children (18 and under)race to the food tables before anyone else can go. By the time the senior citizens get there, most of the food is gone or completely picked over. I was always taught that your elders went first, or at the very least, everyone goes to the buffet tables as a family. If you bring a non-member guest, this stampede is most embarrassing and ill-mannered.

glammer31 said...

10:22 AM
on Mar 20, 2011

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As a mother of 8 and after raising 2 grandchildren as well I can relate to both sides of the children in church issues. Also, as a convert to the Church, I can relate to the reverence issue. Many churches do not include children of any age in worship services and their meetings are, indeed, very reverent and peaceful. Most children can be taught lovingly, patiently, and consistently, to be reverent. However, at certain ages most of them need to be taken out to walk around a bit. Many times my husband or I stood out in the foyer and listened to speakers as we supervised toddlers. As has been mentioned, many adult members forget to be reverent and talk above the prelude music and carry on business as if we were in a PTA or social gathering. One ward chose different children who were most reverent in Primary to take turns standing up in front of the chapel with arms folded to remind everyone to be reverent. In most cases there was no change in the behavior of adults. I often wondered what those "reverent" children were thinking as they stood reverently watching the hubub in front of them. I don't mind families who save extra seats if it is for a baby blessing or missionary speaker but even so, family members could be told to arrive 15 to 30 minutes early to sit together. Saving long rows of seats at stake conference and every Sunday is truly disrespectful. Can you imagine being a non-member or investigator and arriving early to meetings and having no place to sit or being told that he/she is in someone else's seat? I know I can do better at being reverent and respectful. Continual reminders help each on of us if we are willing to improve.

lyndaa said...

01:05 PM
on Mar 20, 2011

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Am in agrement with many of the comments on children running amuck during ward activities and sacrament meeting! It is not happening just in Utah but we have the same problems here in Nevada. As an Ordanace Worker in the Temple, we have concerns with patrons using their phones in the foyer, dressing rooms and chapels. We try our best to keep the world out of our Temple.

daddyshark said...

05:22 PM
on Mar 20, 2011

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Utah has no corner on the market of unruley kids, they're kids. I like Mimi's comment that"are distracted trying not to be?" I put that monkey on MY back. I get to the Temple regularly and I have had to shush Temple workers on a number of occasions. It's mostly old guys who are probably near deaf and don't know their speaking loudly. What we all need is a big dose of empathy and a frosty mug of "Get the Heck Over It".

gfaye said...

05:55 PM
on Mar 20, 2011

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How in the world did the last comment ever get on this site. I do think we have problems that are unique to our culture. However, please remember that President Hinckley once said that the symbol of our religion was our people. What does that say about this string of complaints and judgements. Please be helpful not judgmental to our brothers and sisters.

pinkpanther1 said...

07:52 AM
on Mar 21, 2011

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I feel so bad for anonymous138. How could any family ask someone to move out of "there" pew because their kids need room to spread out?? Do people really do that? Yikes! I do feel more pressure to keep my children contained into a smaller area when sharing a pew, but so be it. I would never want someone to feel unwelcome to sit next to us, especially a single sister. If one of my children had autism, than I might warn the person that we might be more noisy and encroach on her space but I would not ask them to sit elsewhere. As far as children "escaping" down the aisle, I have two children that are always very well-behaved since they were small, in church and out, and two who are wired very differently. Those two have been MUCH more challenging (since birth) and it isn't as if we haven't tried every method, speaking to them before church, positive reinforcements, being more forceful, making them sit in a classroom during Sacrament, you name it. We have read many books, prayed constantly and we still have good days with them and there are bad days. I think people need to realize that some children are just more challenging and instead of assuming you are just a better parent(doubtful), have some empathy on parents who are exhausted but VERY concerned and ever-vigilant to find a method that works with these strong-willed children. I am grateful for my two difficult children, for one reason because it has saved me from thinking, inaccurately that we are just better parents.

et54 said...

09:01 AM
on Mar 21, 2011

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First, I want to say to those who are seeing the comments posted here as "judgemental"--sharing how an experience has made you feel is not "judgemental". It is allowing those who may be unaware of how their behavior affects others to become aware, and thus better help and sustain each other, bear one another's burdens, etc. I want to say I empathize with parents struggling to deal with noisy or unruly children. (even those who appear to not be struggling--perhaps they are just plain worn out from the effort) I have had kids with ADHD and have been a single parent. I applaud the fact that our buildings usually have sound piped into lobbies and classrooms so parents can still hear the message while dealing with kids unable to tolerate being non-disruptive in the chapel. On the other hand, I have also dealt with not being able to tell that the choir singing prelude at stake conference was actually singing, except for seeing that their mouths were moving. (and this from the 5th pew!) This was due to adults having "quiet" conversations, but the sheer number of these quiet murmurs drove up the sound level such that everyone had to raise their level of "quiet" to compete. In spite of having rooms set aside with closed-circuit TV for parents to take their noisy children during stake conference, there are still a fair number of babies (& others?) making noise in the chapel/cultural hall. So, someone having a hard time hearing is left with no where to go. Perhaps at least one of the "quiet" rooms could be reserved for those who need true quiet in order to hear. I have at times retreated to a less-used lobby area where there was audio piped---only to have a group of adults move in to carry on conversation during the meeting. Then there are the nursing mothers' rooms full of happily chit-chatting ladies and their babies. Made me envy the women who are talented enough to discreetly nurse their babies while sitting in meetings. On the subject of saving seats: One stake conference, I happened to arrive early and was one of the first few people through the door after it was unlocked. Thinking I would surely be able to get a good seat in the chapel (for once), imagine my dismay to find that the whole chapel was full of scriptures and other "seat markers" that had been left from the adult meeting the night before, so their owners could be assured of good seats, whether they arrived early or not! I so much wanted to put all those "left behind" belongings in the lost & found, where they belonged! If someone is present early, but has to be out of the chapel for a meeting or some other purpose (even just taking their socializing out into the foyer where it belongs), I have no problem with them leaving their stuff where they intend to sit. But "camping out" in absentia overnight is just too much! (I was at the same adult meeting the previous night and it never even occurred to me to try and stake out a spot for the next morning. Though, I have fantasized that having my family get ready for church the night before and sleep on the pews might be one way to make sure we get there on time. Wouldn't that be a sight!!)

valdsmom said...

09:24 AM
on Mar 21, 2011

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I am currently serving as YW's President, and have found cell phones to be a HUGE obstacle to having the Spirit during class and activities because the girls would rather text than focus on the feelings of the Spirit. With the permission of all the parents (who, by the way, wish they could do the same), I collect all (including all the YW Leaders) phones before class or an activity and put them in a basket. I ask everyone to turn them off, because even on vibrate the girls are still distracted and announce "that's my phone going off". The reverence in the class/activity when they have their phones verses when they don't is dramatic! As a busy mom, I use my phone all the time and appreciate the scripture app that allows me to read my scriptures when I have arrived early somewhere to pick up one of my kids. But, it has been my experience that if I am truly studying them, there is just no substitute for my books where I have written notes and thoughts as I have read. And, even though it would give me one less thing to tote to Church, nothing can replace my literal scriptures! I don't mind if others use whatever technology they are comfortable with, but I worry sometimes that the example we are setting for our Youth is misunderstood and taken by them as "they have their phone and are using it, why can't I?".

mrsbudr said...

12:43 PM
on Mar 21, 2011

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I grew up in a family of 7 children. We were not allowed to get up, talk above a whisper or sit with others during our meetings. This also went for other things we went to including movies, basketball games (whispering not necessary) and etc. Many times I wished I could have sat with my friends. We were taught from infancy to sit and be quiet. We were not allowed to have any toys or paper & pencils until after the sacrament had been passed. I raised my children the same way. Believe me I too had problems with my children acting up, but I took them out, got their attention and returned to the meeting. They learned to mind after this treatment a time or two. After being somewhat inactive for a number of years, and returning to church I was appalled at the irreverent behavior that had arisen during my time away. I was shocked that children got up DURING the sacrament to leave and get a drink. I was also shocked to have a mother actually RUN across the chapel chasing a youngster during the meeting. Many times I thought I should offer to sit with her, since her hubby wasn't able to always attend, but I did not, thinking she would think I was intruding. Now I sit in the back of the still very noisy chapel, and when I see a young child that has wandered away from parents I pick them up, and make them sit still and be quiet with me. This has worked really well most of the time. My husband and I became the ward grandparents for some of the noisiest children, but they didn't act that way when they sat with us because we didn't allow it. My advice to parents is to stop "Playing" with children and begin "Parenting" them. Children, even infants, can learn to be quiet for a time. They also don't need to drink any more than an adult or go to the bathroom, unless there is a physical reason for it. I realize that church is 3 hours long, but Sacrament is only 1 hour and children as well as adults can sit quietly and be still for at least this long. I also have a difficult time understanding why young mothers feel they need to bring their child's car seat into the chapel. Many times they are just in the way, with no baby in them. If you feel you must, please place them underneath the benches when not in use. I have seen our deacons trip over the ones that have been left in the aisles. As for saving seats...several years ago President Hinckley came to our ward to speak. We all knew for weeks ahead that we would not be allowed to save seats and to arrive early to get a good seat. When I arrived 3 hours early, there were people there already saving seats. I ended up sitting at the rear of the cultural hall, barely being able to see w/my young children wondering why we couldn't sit in the seats that were empty, they understood that we couldn't save seats. What did this teach them? That only mom was obedient...In a previous ward, our Bp. was very annoyed at the noise level of our Sacrament meetings and so he held an adult only meeting on the 5th sunday during sunday school. He was kind but adamant about reverence and asked what our thoughts were. We all discussed what we could do and the conclusion was that all discussions not relevant to the meeting were to be held in the foyer prior to or after the meeting. Once you entered the chapel you were expected to be quiet, sit as families and not get up and leave during the meeting unless absolutely necessary. The noise level went down to almost none. It was incredible. Then I moved to the noisy ward, and actually counted the times someone got up during the meeting. In one hour we had 65 instances of people leaving. If 65 people got up to leave at the same time, what a commotion it would cause, but it has become so acceptable that some barely notice any more. I have since returned to the quiet ward and it is truly a blessing to not have to parent other people's children. I returned to the noisy ward for a sunday recently and was so sad to see it had not changed, even though many bishops had tried, some parents just don't get it. One more quick note on perfumes and strong scents. My hubby only has 1 lung so he can only be at church for a short period of time if someone has a strong scent on. He wants to stay and partake of meetings, but cannot because of strong odors. Please don't wear perfumes/colognes and etc to church. It is difficult for many just to breathe without all the extra.

hopeandfaith said...

10:37 AM
on Mar 22, 2011

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A couple of ideas my parents taught me that I am immensely grateful for as a parent on my own at church with twins. * Plan that their attention span is close to their age and bring things that will draw their attention to the spirit of the meeting. Don't bring things that will distract from the spirit of the meeting. They may not understand what's being said but if you can help them practice reverence, they will feel the Spirit and can enjoy the meeting. *Feed them well and take them to the bathroom before the meeting starts. You won't teach them that sacrament is a time for potty breaks or snack time. They will be less likely to need to leave the meeting and you won't have to worry about clean up after the meeting. (This can be a fine line but most children can go an hour and a half without eating.) *Don't take children out to run around in teh foyer. If we needed to leave the chapel they snuggled us in the lobby until we were settled and ready to go back in. My mom said she felt like if they took us out of the chapel and let us run around we would learn we could be rewarded for disruptive behavior instead of learning reverence. (It's helped to give energetic childern a chance to get their wiggles out before we have to sit in a meeting that's longer than their attention span...jumping jacks on the front lawn, laps around the outside of the building in the 15min before the meetings starts, then a potty break. We do this in between Conference sessions. =-) I'm really grateful for my parents example because it helped me focus on building the behavior I was trying to teach them instead of focusing on what I don't want them to do. I love knowing that Heavenly Father knows the intent of our heart and we can have his help 'in the very moment' we need it. I'm the first to admit that I forget to ask, especially when I'm feeling frazzled. I know when i do I've been blessed with a thought that helps. Often times it's as simple as pulling a child onto my lap, tickling her arm, or having them trace letters to a hymn in the margins of the program. It's a blessing since I often think the solution is harder than it really is. I love all the comments about responding with love and not judgement. We're all inclined to the latter at times but what a gift it is when I'm out of sorts and someone responds to my shortcomings with kindness. It reminds me of Elder Bednar's talk about the 'tender mercies of the Lord'. =-)

justmeagain said...

08:09 AM
on Mar 23, 2011

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sweatpea said: Not a Mormon here, either and I want to know why you don't have children's church or classes for kids & nursery for the babies during the service? You can't expect small children to remain still & quiet during an adult service. They're bored to death! We do have "children's church." It is called "Primary." However, what everyone is talking about here is our Sacrament meeting. Our meetings are three 1-hour blocks: Primary is for children and it takes two of those blocks. The children are taught age-appropriate Gospel principles. The adults are are in Relief Society (women) or Priesthood Meeting (men) and Gospel Doctrine (Sunday School). The teenagers are in programs similar to the adult programs; however, they are geared toward age-appropriate educational programs to build life skills and learn Gospel principles. During Sacrament meetings, all families sit together (children, teens and adults). We partake of the Sacrament, listen to various speakers and it is a time to gather together as a unit to be uplifted and seek guidance and direction from our leaders. EVERYONE is expected to be quiet and show reverence and respect to the speakers during this time. Parents should bring "quiet time" books or games to entertain their littlest ones while the older primary children (and teens) should pay attention to the speakers. In my branch, on of the sisters used to give out candy bars to the primary children IF they paid attention to the speaker and gave her written notes at the end of the meeting highlighting each speaker's talk. Worked like a charm to keep the noise down. Most of the parents of younger children bring soft books and other attention grabbers to keep the little ones quiet. Hope this helps clarify things for you.

littlekahuna said...

09:26 AM
on Mar 23, 2011

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Wow! I've been a member of the Church for 41 years since I was 20 years old and have lived in 8 states and 16 cities. I now live in Idaho. I've never had anyone exhibit such selfish behavior as asking someone to move from a seat in a meeting. Wow again. I guess all I have to say is, 'if you're guilty of being rude or unkind, STOP IT!'

jab said...

10:06 AM
on Mar 26, 2011

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The critisims noted here are real... so if they apply to you or your ward, try to improve. Our bishop realised that new members and visitors were overlooked; so he asked leaders to rotate where they sat each week. Then he told the ward why this was happening. It helped. When I was called as Nursery Leader, I needed to exit sacratment meeting promptly to be available to greet little ones. Then parents could get to their assignments. So I needed an aisle seat. Are similiar needs in your ward? In another ward the bishop assigned priesthood to help a very active youth maintain control. It was not an easy assignment, but today he is an active father.

jonnathen said...

02:27 PM
on Mar 26, 2011

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I have a very unique throught, All of the Chaples and grounds have been built with sacred funds, TITHING and it is the Lords house and should be respected as such. How can children learn if they are not taught, by parents or someone else in the ward..come on folks wake up do you think our great geat gand parents would of tolerated this...? someone would of been going to the wood shed.

raeshine77 said...

10:31 AM
on Mar 27, 2011

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Suffer the little children to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of heaven. I think we shouldn't assume that heaven is quiet :)

kolob said...

11:56 AM
on Mar 27, 2011

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It is sad to see the disrespect in Sacrament Meetings especially. It is not "judging" when you have little ones screaming in your ears in the pew in back of you and your ear literally goes dead. That is what happend to me several weeks ago. It is disrespect on the parents part to allow their kids to stay in the chapel when their kids are noisey. When my boys were small, I took them out of the chapel the moment they started getting noisey. This didn't happen often since my husband and I encouraged and taught them that they are to be quiet in Sacrament Meeting. I can hardly believe my eyes when I see kids screaming and the parents don't bat an eye. They don't care! I know that the Bishopric doesn't want to "offend" anyone by addressing this issue but how about the people who are trying to hear the speakers and most important feel the Spirit? After all, this is the Lord's house and that is what we come there for. It's sad that it's turned into a circus in meeting houses. It wasn't like that years ago and it doesn't HAVE to be that way now. Investagators don't come back after sitting through the noise at times. Bottom line, be respectful of others and quiet your children. Remember what we come to church for.

conjarhall said...

08:11 PM
on Mar 28, 2011

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I have just started to use my phone with my scriptures on it at church. I don't care what everyone else is doing with their phones, but I have noticed that my 12 year old is having problems in his classes. He does not have a cell phone but his friends do. He is 12 an undoubtedly gets reminded to pay attention. He "swears" he is. (We all know 12 yr olds!) Anyway, he comes home frustrated because he is getting in trouble but his friends who are supposedly ready with their scriptures and paying attention are really playing angry birds! What to do?

scotnoir said...

09:26 PM
on Mar 29, 2011

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I am thankful for our church, for our ward and for the opportunity to join together as Saints to partake of the sacrament every Sunday. Every aspect might not be ideal, but in light of the chaos in the world around us...the sound of parents shooshing children should be comforting. We are safe, we are free to worship and when we are in church...we are exactly where we need to be. If we were told tomorrow that we no longer had the freedom to worship, read our scriptures or partake of the sacrament...we wouldn't care if it was a 'family member' who sat next to us or what child was whimpering or what the person sat next to us smelled like...we would simply hunger for the freedom to feel closer to our Father in Heaven and our Savior. Remember that when you feel 'irritated'...try feeling thankful.

ceejay said...

01:54 PM
on Apr 03, 2011

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The greatest disturbance is the mothers of small children thinking that bringing crayons, paper coloring books, etc. helps keep them quiet.I disagree that only makes the paper rattling and crayon arguing more annoying, and then its the child who screams during sacrement every Sunday and usually the same child. I know the mothers are doing their best but,please understand that we love your children also, but we came to hear the and feel the spirit of the Lord, and that screaming child and rattling paper keeps us from that.Please take them to the mothers lounge because believe it or not the child knows what his screaming causes mother to do and he repeats it every Sunday, change his routine for our sakes please.

smb said...

03:08 PM
on Apr 06, 2011

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Yes-- parents should be doing their utmost to keep their kids from distracting those around them. But I'm curious if anyone who has commented here about loud children has ever offered to help the poor parents with a child. Maybe your assistance will make life pleasant for everyone else. It could be a great opportunity for you to give service to others.

lady_arndt said...

11:11 AM
on May 25, 2011

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Surfers: My husband and I use our mobile phones to text each other, when we cannot find each other in the building or are unable to get up and leave due to our callings. We do it to remind each other of Primary talks, bringing something to church, lost/forgotten keys, etc. We do so as discreetly as possible and then put them away. My husband also uses it for notes and/or to look up scriptures. People should not jump to conclusions. Leaving church or other meetings early? Who cares? Honestly! It is no one's business why they are leaving. My husband and I have had to both get up early to take our son out when he was in a terrible mood so that we are not disrupting the meeting. We both have had to jump up and dart out when there is an emergency with someone sick or injured. We also get up to help others, such as single moms who need help with their children or because we realize we have left something behind in a class or forgot to lock up a door. Don't be quick too judge. Saving pews: We sometimes try to save seats for friends who are struggling in the ward and need the fellowshipping. We see others save seats for family and friends because there is a returned missionary or a baby blessing. Sometimes our "regular" area of pews are filled up... Who cares!? Find another seat and move on with your life. You are always going to offend someone and you should strive to not be offended yourselves. What bothers me... judgmental people who criticize me for bringing snacks for my child. He is only 4! your kids can sit through the entire meeting without getting antsy? Good for you! My son cannot, and to make our life simpler and sacrament a little quieter, we do bring him snacks and coloring books and hotwheels. We ARE working on him sitting reverently, but again he is only 4. We DO clean up after ourselves when there is a spill. We ALWAYS leave our pews cleaner than when we got there. Basically, mind your own business!

al1801 said...

02:04 PM
on May 28, 2011

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Regarding the scriptures on Smart Phone. Surely an electronic reader would fit the bill, so the risk of inadvertent incoming phone calls are alleviated. The readers are lightweight and I'm sure can contain a "Triple Combo" Bible, BOM and D&C. Now having said that, is there such a beast available?

lemons said...

10:53 AM
on Aug 24, 2011

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I agree with the "MY PEW" mentality. I must admit, my family has this as my mother is the ward librarian and slips in at the last moment from having to close up the library before sacrament and slips out at the end of the prayer before the "rush" and my father has issues that have to leave him assessible to the restroom so we MARKED the back pew as ours (LOL) and it is somewhat discerning when someone is in our pew - unless it is a new member or investigator. But I try to laugh it off and get the "next best place" for them, as for me? Anywhere is fine.

hthalljr said...

04:27 PM
on Sep 13, 2011

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Once at the end of sacrament meeting, our stake visitor asked for us to sustain a member to a stake calling, explaining that during the meeting he had received a text message from the stake president. Another time I was quietly reading my scriptures on my PDA in the temple marriage waiting room when I was told by a temple worker to to "stop texting" and put it away. My phone's radio was, in fact, off. I immediately complied without attempting to correct the worker's mistaken judgment, but I wish the temple had posted a policy on use of PDAs, if indeed there was one. I, too, have accessed the Internet during a class to resolve, for myself, a question that has arisen, and I fell that is appropriate usage. It may be appropriate for a teacher of youth to collect all phones until class is over, but I hope that as adults, we will trust one another to use our gadgets appropriately. Tracy Hall Jr hthalljr'gmail'com

lkiester said...

02:53 PM
on Nov 27, 2011

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It may have been "easier" to type up someone's talk as they were giving it in sacramanet in the 70's but "ease" was not as important as the message or the manners. It seems everything today is about what's easier. Children can mind and if they don't, they can be taken out and spoken to, then return. Scriptures are too heavy? Imagine the Ten Commandments or coming across the plains, or you get the picture. Don't judge and don't advise are two different things. Don't judge and don't expect are two different things. I am a primary president and I have no problem with 140+ children in taking the "time" to walk a child to a parent if they re misbehaving. Taking "time" is what is lacking. Take time to correct and to love and to serve and to turn the pages of your well traveled scriptures. Take time to teach reverence and also to help young couples with their hands full during sacrament. Don't let the internet or technology become a new god and certainly don't model that thinking to children by turning to technology instead of the scriptures. Do you turn off your cell phones at the temple? Why? Do you look up scriptures on your i-pod as you're waiting for your session in the temple? Why not. There is a place and time for many things, including technology, but I don't believe the answer is "everywhere" and any time as long as it's "easier".

ahriver said...

09:27 AM
on Mar 03, 2012

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What I find sad is when the children at church are so unfriendly that they make another child feel invisible. It's bad enough when adults feel that way. But for a child to hate going to primary because the children ignore him/her. You start to wonder what's wrong with this picture.
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