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Have you ever wondered what the Holy Ghost looks like or if there are real, tangible ways he can help you in your life? In this week’s Sunday on Monday study group, we’re digging into 2 Nephi 31–33 to answer these questions and discussing how the Holy Ghost can help guide us back to our heavenly home.
Find full episodes of the Sunday on Monday study group here. Start your free trial of Deseret Bookshelf PLUS+ here.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1:
Do you remember what your baptism was like? What about both of your baptisms that day? Nephi wrote about these two baptisms in this chapter, a baptism by water and a baptism by fire.
1. Baptism by Water:
READ: 2 Nephi 31:5-9, 17-18
- Baptism by water is the first baptism and is administered under the keys of the Aaronic priesthood.
2. Baptism by Fire
After we are baptized by water, Nephi teaches in 2 Nephi 31:13,14-17, then cometh the “baptism of fire AND of the Holy Ghost.” To gain salvation every accountable person must receive two baptisms. They are the baptism of water and of the Spirit.
- Baptism of Fire or the Spirit is the second baptism and is administered under the keys of the Melchizedek Priesthood.
- Baptism by fire means different things for an 8-year-old than it does for someone who is past the age of accountability.
Baptism for coverts over the age of eight
"By the power of the Holy Ghost—who is the Sanctifier—dross, iniquity, carnality, sensuality, and every evil thing is burned out of the repentant soul as if by fire; the cleansed person becomes literally a new creature of the Holy Ghost (Mosiah 27:24-26) He is born again" (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 73).
Baptism for eight year olds
“The baptism of Fire is not something in addition to the receipt of the Holy Ghost; rather, it is the actual enjoyment of the gift which is offered by the laying on of hands at the time of baptism" (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 73).
At baptism, every one of us receives the gift of the Holy Ghost—the constant companionship of a member of the Godhead. So what does this look like in our everyday lives? In the next segment, we are going to talk exclusively about the Holy Ghost.
Segment 2:
Let’s see if you can answer this question, the Holy Ghost is . . . ?
READ 2 Nephi 31-33: Truths about the Holy Ghost
Facts about the Holy Ghost:
1. What the Holy Ghosts LOOKS like (D&C 130:22).
“The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.”
- Nothing has been said or revealed as to whether the Holy Ghost will get a body
2. The SIGN of the Holy Ghost is a dove (2 Nephi 31:8).
“Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove.”
- The sign of a dove was instituted before the earth was created. John recognized this with his heavenly eyes in John 1:32. The Holy Ghost didn’t become a dove, it was decided that it would be the sign for the Holy Ghost and so an actual dove was present at the baptism of Jesus to witness the divinity of what had just happened.
3. The SYMBOL of the Holy Ghost is fire (2 Nephi 31:12,13,14,17, Matt. 3:11, D&C 19:31).
- The Holy Ghost acts as a cleansing agent to purify a person and sanctify him from all sin.
“Hence, as we are born again and strive to always have His Spirit to be with us, the Holy Ghost sanctifies and refines our souls as if by fire. Ultimately, we are to stand spotless before God” (Elder Bednar, “The Baptism of Fire,” ChurchofJesusChrist.org).
4. The gift of the Holy Ghost was not operational during Christ’s mortal ministry (see “Holy Ghost” in the Bible Dictionary).
- No one knows why the Holy Ghost was not operational during Christ’s mortal ministry. However, the power or influence of the Holy Ghost was felt.
The roles the Holy Ghost can play in our lives:
1. Teach, comfort, and bring things to remembrance (John 14:26)
“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
2. Testify (John 15:26)
“But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:”
3. Show things to come (John 16:13)
“Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.”
Question: From what we have studied so far, how have you seen the influence of the Holy Ghost in your life?
Knowing these truths about the Holy Ghost are what will allow us to become instruments in the Lord's hands. In the next segment, we will talk about more roles the Holy Ghost can play and how the Godhead can use us through the influence of the Holy Ghost.
Segment 3:
Let’s read 2 Nephi 31:3, 33:2–3, and 32:3
“For my soul delighteth in plainness; for after this manner doth the Lord God work among the children of men. For the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto men according to their language, unto their understanding.”
“2 But behold, there are many that harden their hearts against the Holy Spirit, that it hath no place in them; wherefore, they cast many things away which are written and esteem them as things of naught.
“3 But I, Nephi, have written what I have written, and I esteem it as of great aworth, and especially unto my people. For I bpray continually for them by day, and mine ceyes water my pillow by night, because of them; and I cry unto my God in faith, and I know that he will hear my cry.”
“Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.”
- The word “angels” is the English translation for the Hebrew word “malachim,” which also means messengers.
- Who are messengers today? Prophets, apostles, missionaries, and us!
How having the gift of the Holy Ghost can help us:
- We can know all things (D&C 35:19, Moroni 10:5).
- We can discern thoughts of others (Alma 10:17, 12:3, Jacob 2:5).
- Mothers have a lot of success with this gift of the Spirit! Ever caught kids in a lie?
- Show you all things what ye should do (2 Nephi 32:5) .
As his messengers, we are on God’s errand. We possess every gift, attribute and characteristic we need to do God’s work.
This is my all-time favorite quote about the Holy Ghost by Parley P. Pratt. He taught that every one of us possesses every organ, attribute, sense, sympathy, affection that is possessed by God himself but that it is all in a very rudimentary state and we will gradually develop these attributes with the help of the Holy Ghost:
“The gift of the Holy Ghost . . . quickens all the intellectual faculties, increases, enlarges, expands and purifies all the natural passions and affections; and adapts them, by the gift of wisdom, to their lawful use. It inspires, develops, cultivates and matures all the fine-toned sympathies, joys, tastes, kindred feelings, and affections of our nature. It inspires virtue, kindness, goodness, tenderness, gentleness, and charity. It develops beauty of person, form and features. It tends to health, vigor, animation, and social feeling. It invigorates all the faculties of the physical and intellectual man. It strengthens, and gives tone to the nerves. In short, it is, as it were, marrow to the bone, joy to the heart, light to the eyes, music to the ears, and life to the whole being” (Parley P. Patt, Key to the Science of Theology, p. 61).
READ D&C 11:12: Any thought that is good is from the Holy Ghost.
“And now, verily, verily, I say unto thee, put your trust in that Spirit which leadeth to do good—yea, to do justly, to walk humbly, to judge righteously; and this is my Spirit.”
Elder Rasband said in the April 2017 conference: “If we pay attention to the promptings that come to us, we will grow in the spirit of revelation and receive more and more Spirit-driven insight and direction” (Elder Ronald A. Rasband, “Let the Holy Spirit Guide,” April 2017 general conference).
Now that Nephi has helped us to see and understand the value and importance of the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost there is a specific lesson that he wants us to watch for from the Spirit. In the next segment, we discuss what the Holy Ghost will teach us and HOW that information will be communicated to us.
Segment 4:
What does the word “feast” make you think of? Nephi talks about feasting in this chapter, which is slightly different than the kind of feasting I prefer.
READ: 2 Nephi 31:20
“Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and dendure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.”
Feasting: “If you and I are to feast upon the words of Christ, we must study the scriptures and absorb His words through pondering them and making them a part of every thought and action” (Elder Robert D. Hales, “Healing Soul and Body,” Nov. 1998 Ensign, p.15).
Let’s talk about feasting in this context. Is it hard to feast? How do you feast? How can we encourage others to feast?
Segment 5:
“We should pray frequently. We should be alone with our Heavenly Father at least two or three times each day—‘morning, mid-day, and evening,’ as the scripture indicates. (See Alma 34:21.) In addition, we are told to pray always. (See 2 Ne. 32:9; D&C 88:126.) This means that our hearts should be full, drawn out in prayer unto our Heavenly Father continually (See Alma 34:27.)” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Ezra Taft Benson [2014], 52).
“And again, I command thee that thou shalt pray vocally as well as in thy heart; yea, before the world as well as in secret, in public as well as in private.”
READ 2 Nephi 32:9:
“But behold, I say unto you that ye must pray always, and not faint; that ye must not perform any thing unto the Lord save in the first place ye shall pray unto the Father in the name of Christ, that he will consecrate thy performance unto thee, that thy performance may be for the welfare of thy soul.”
Let’s look at what some of these words mean in this scripture:
- Faint means to weaken or give up.
- Consecrate means “to dedicate, to make holy, or to become righteous.”
2 Nephi 32:8–9 are also doctrinal mastery scriptures on acquiring spiritual knowledge.
What role does the Holy Ghost play in our prayers?
D&C 46:30, 63:64, 18:18: The Holy Ghost allows us to ask God according to God’s will when it comes to our personal prayers.
These last three chapters are Nephi’s swan song because in Jacob 1:12, Nephi dies. What would you say or write if you knew the end was near? In the last segment we are going to read Nephi’s final few words to us.
Segment 6:
So often in our culture we use the phrase, “endure to the end.” What in the world are we talking about? What comes to mind when you hear these words?
“20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a asteadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of bhope, and a clove of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and dendure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eeternal life.
“21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the away; and there is bnone other way nor cname given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the ddoctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the eFather, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is fone God, without end. Amen.”
What is Nephi’s enduring to the end mean here? What does this look like in our real lives?
1 Corinthians 9:24 The Apostle Paul said, “Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.”
Ecclesiastes 9:11 In the Old Testament, we read, “The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong.”
President Thomas S. Monson said: “The difficulties which come to us present us with the real test of our ability to endure. A fundamental question remains to be answered by each of us: Shall I falter, or shall I finish? Some do falter as they find themselves unable to rise above their challenges. To finish involves enduring to the very end of life itself” (President Thomas S. Monson, “I Will Not Fail Thee nor Forsake Thee,” October 2013 general conference).
President Monson has told each of us that we are runners in the race of life. “Comforting is the fact that there are many runners,” he said. “Reassuring is the knowledge that our Eternal Scorekeeper is understanding. Challenging is the truth that each must run. But you and I do not run alone. That vast audience of family, friends, and leaders will cheer our courage, will applaud our determination as we rise from our stumblings and pursue our goal. . . . Let us shed any thought of failure. . . . Let us seek; let us obtain the prize prepared for all, even exaltation in the celestial kingdom of God” (President Thomas S. Monson, “Happiness—The Universal Quest,” Ensign, Oct. 1993).
Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin said: “An obvious parallel between life and a marathon is the necessity to run diligently and endure to the end. Among his final words to his people, Nephi told them: ‘And now, … after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; … Ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ … and endure to the end’ (2 Nephi 31:19–20)” (Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin, “Running Your Marathon,” October 1989 general conference).
We live in such a fast paced world, does the pace we run the race matter?
READ Mosiah 4:27
“And see that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent, that thereby he might win the prize; therefore, all things must be done in order.”
“We don’t have to be fast; we simply have to be steady and move in the right direction. We have to do the best we can, one step after another” (Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin, “One Step After Another,” Ensign, Nov. 2001).
What are some things you do to endure to the end? What has helped you in this race?
Segment 1
Tammy 0:00
When I was a kid in primary, okay, and probably until I went on my mission, I can remember hearing lessons and talks about the Holy Ghost, and I would immediately envision Casper the Friendly Ghost floating around and being kind, and maybe occasionally playing tricks on people. I'm not gonna lie. I really thought that's what the Holy Ghost looked like and was all about. Does anyone else out there have that same experience with the Holy Ghost? Maybe it's just me. But today we are going to talk about what the Holy Ghost looks like, who the Holy Ghost is, and the many roles that the Holy Ghost plays in our lives and in receiving answers to our prayers.
Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, you probably have this down by now. But for those of you who are new to our study group, I want to tell you something that I think is so cool about this. It's divided up into six different segments, and each segment is about 10 to 12 minutes long. So you can study your Scriptures for like 12 minutes a day, who doesn't want to do that? That's like so great. Or, you can listen to the whole podcast all at once. And I will say the other night I went down to say goodnight to my daughters and I caught them listening to my podcast. And I said, "What are you doing?" And they said, "10 minutes a day Mom, it's not that bad." So, anyway, shout out to the little ones listening to this podcast.
Another awesome thing about our study group is that each week we're joined by two of my friends, which I love, and it's a little different each week. And so today we have my very dear friends Holly Howarth and Hayley Moreno.
Holly 1:26
Hi, Tam.
Haley 1:27
Hello.
Tammy 1:27
Hi, friends!
And this is kind of cool because we have had a "Holly" and a "Haley" in the past. These are not the same ones. These are different "Holly" and "Haley's." And what makes this cool is that you guys are related. How you related?
Holly 1:39
We are, Haley is my niece.
Haley 1:42
Yep. Auntie Holly.
Tammy 1:43
Aunite Holly. I've known you both for over 20 years, which is crazy because Haley that makes you like teeny tiny. You were six years old. I've watched you grow up into this beautiful woman. Now you're a cute mom with two little kids.
Haley 1:54
Yeah, it's so fun.
Tammy 1:57
And I always joke that Holly's like the older sister I never had. Because I can remember sitting in the back of a station wagon growing up, and I created my own...
I had my own little imaginary friend, her name was Deborah, and she had long blonde hair. Because I always wanted an older imaginary friend that would tell me what to do because I'm the oldest in my family. And then I met Holly.
Holly 2:15
And now I love to tell you what to do.
Tammy 2:17
All the time, all the time.
I love this.
If you want to find out more about my friends, you can find their pictures and their bios on LDSLiving.com/SundayonMonday, where we put all this fun information. So this week, we're going to study Second Nephi chapters 31 through 33. Three incredible chapters. And the cool thing about these chapters is this is Nephi's swan song, if you will, it's the last words to his posterity and to us before he departs this mortal life, as they say in scripture. So let's see what he has to say and read his wise words. So grab your scriptures and let's dig in.
We are in second Nephi chapter 31. And I asked you guys to read these three chapters before you came, right? How'd that go?
Holly 2:58
It's beautiful?
Haley 2:59
Yeah. And I hadn't read this for so long. I don't know when the last time I read the end of Second Nephi. It's just a different time in my life now, I guess. But I think these are three really powerful chapters that I think anyone struggling with the church, or kind of moving away from the church, or maybe they're even coming back to the church, should read because it gives you so much hope, but also can fulfill so many questions that maybe they're having. I have felt that way. And I've seen a lot of family members and friends feel that way. And I wish I would have known to just tell them to go read this or tell myself at that time because there's so many different parts of what we believe in these three chapters -- the Holy Ghost, repentance, baptism, and just the pure understanding of the Lord is there for us.
Right here in second Nephi chapter 31, verse three, it says, "For the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto men according to their language, unto their understanding."
So I think that's good for someone who's never even heard of our church, but also someone who's struggling, or maybe someone who's not even struggling, can read that and just know that he understands us and knows how to speak to us in the way we need to hear it.
Tammy 4:17
Haley, I really like that that's the experience you had reading those. And what you just said is exactly what these three chapters are about. And we're going to talk about that in later on in our segments because Nephi says, "It's that easy. It's that plain. It's that simple that this is the gospel of Jesus Christ." I've never thought of those three chapters, though, in that context where anyone who wanted to strengthen their testimony, "just read these three chapters." I think you're totally right. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.
Do you guys remember your baptism? What your baptismal day was like when you were a kid?
Holly 4:48
Very much so.
Tammy 4:48
What was it like Holly, what do you remember?
Holly 4:50
It was just at the church and it was just my grandparents, my grandma and grandpa, and my mom and dad, and my brothers and sisters. And I do know that I thought I was the most beautiful girl that ever lived in that white dress. I did, I have that picture, my grandma gave me a frame, I put that up in my room with the picture of me in that white dress. Because we were baptized in white dresses back then.
Tammy 5:14
Oh, you were?
Holly 5:15
They weren't pantsuits.
Tammy 5:16
So they didn't have dresses.
Holly 5:17
They were that thick white, but it had a little puffy sleeve and my mom did my Dorothy Hamill so perfect, and I was just gorgeous that day.
Tammy 5:26
So you were baptized in the 70s. Those listening go, "Mhmm, mhmm."
Haley, do you remember yours? Holy, you were there.
Holly 5:34
I was there.
Haley 5:34
Yes, Holly was there. My grandpa baptized me and my other grandpa confirmed me. And it was a really special day. I remember all my family.
Holly 5:43
It was an emotional day.
Haley 5:44
It was an emotional day for me.
Tammy 5:46
Why?
Haley 5:47
Because my dad didn't baptize me. It's funny. Every time I hear that song, the baptism song. It brings back those really hard memories and I look back on that day and how emotional it was, and how hard it was for me that my dad wasn't able to baptize me. It's actually such a beautiful thing because I feel like I've learned so much from that, and honestly a lot of respect that he decided that it wasn't the right thing for him at that time. And I was so thankful to have both of my grandparents baptize me. But it was a hard day for me.
Holly 6:27
It was a hard day for all of us. And it was a hard day to watch Haley. The sadness was thick in the room, the heartache.
Tammy 6:37
Haley, thank you for sharing that and being willing to be vulnerable to share that because I can definitely feel the spirit. It's incredible how that happens when people share their truth, the spirit witnesses of it. Let's go to second Nephi chapter 31 verse five. And Holly will you read verse five?
Holly 6:54
"And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water!"
Unknown Speaker 7:09
baptized by water to fulfill all righteousness. Oh then how much more need have we being unholy to be baptized? Yea, even by water.
Tammy 7:12
Holly, will you please skip verse six, and then just read verse seven? And as you read verse seven, here's what I want you to look for. How Haley was like the Savior, like what stands out to you while you got baptized?
Holly 7:22
"Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient unto him in keeping his commandments."
Tammy 7:40
What stood out to you?
Holly 7:42
That he humbleth himself before the Father, even the Savior did.
Haley 7:46
And he was obedient, obedient unto him.
Tammy 7:49
You definitely were. And I love the beauty of that because all eight year olds are holy, like you were sinless. And yeah, like how you said it was your choice on that day. What a beautiful story about your baptism.
You know, it's really powerful when you think about our baptisms, because I say, "Do you remember what your baptism was like?" And the first thing you think of is the water, the baptism of water, right? If you go down to verse 13, there's actually two baptisms that we participate in on the day of our baptism. There's the baptism of water, and then there's a baptism of fire. And that's important for our kids to know. You're going to be cleansed from all your sin, but then this other baptism, which is called the baptism of fire, or the baptism of the Spirit, is really powerful. So Haley, will you read verse 13?
Haley 8:28
"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel."
Tammy 9:06
Highlight that in your scriptures, "the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost." It says it again in verse 14, "the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost." There's two different baptisms of fire, one for the Convert and one for the child. If you're a convert, your baptism of fire is this, according to Bruce R. McConkie, he says, "By the power of the Holy Ghost—who is the Sanctifier—dross, iniquity, carnality, sensuality, and every evil thing is burned out of the repentant soul as if by fire; the cleansed person becomes literally a new creature of the Holy Ghost (Mosiah 27:24-26) He is born again. (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p73)"
Holly 9:41
Wow.
Tammy 9:41
Holly, why'd you say wow?
Holly 9:43
I love "born again" in that context, because we hear it a lot, you know, in other religions, but I love it in this context to be born again, makes me want to get baptized again.
Tammy 9:57
Right, like an actual one because I know you can take the sacrament and be baptized, right? Boy, there's something about that in the water out.
Here's the other baptism of fire then, this is for little children. Bruce, R. McConkie says, “The baptism of Fire is not something in addition to the receipt of the Holy Ghost; rather, it is the actual enjoyment of the gift which is offered by the laying on of hands at the time of baptism." (Mckonkie, Mormon Doctrine, p73)
So for little kids receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, that's their baptism of fire. And this, this feeling of knowing that you have an actual member of the Godhead with you for the rest of your life. And that is what is so beautiful about this is that Jesus didn't need that, and he got it. And then we see that by example, we need that in our own lives. So what we get to do now for the rest of our segments is talk about the Holy Ghost and what that looks like in our lives and who the Holy Ghost is, and what the Holy Ghost can do for us, and what the Holy Ghost looks like. We're going to dispel the myth that he looks like Casper.
Segment 2 11:07
Segment 2
Tammy 11:07
So when I say these words to you, give me your answer. The Holy Ghost is...
Holly 11:12
My friend. My comforter.
Tammy 11:14
Yeah, I was gonna say, "powerful."
Yeah.
Holly 11:17
I rely on the Holy Ghost a lot.
Tammy 11:20
In what ways?
Holly 11:21
In every way, and in specific...
Haley 11:24
Well throughout my life when I think of the Holy Ghost...
Holly 11:28
The Holy Ghost has helped me out in every aspect of my life, whether it's parenting, or personal issues, or just knowing what to do like feeling things for other people, and it's very powerful.
Tammy 11:43
Haley, you've referenced this when you talked at the beginning why this is so beneficial for people because you said it talks about the Holy Ghost and all three chapters do, lots about the Holy Ghost. Did anything stand out to you about the Holy Ghost when you read those?
Haley 11:55
Yes. And I feel like if you don't know what the Holy Ghost is or what it can do for you, these chapters are, they're pretty straightforward and what it says, the Holy Ghost does for us. One verse I love is Second Nephi chapter 31 verse eight, it says, "Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove." Which I think is so interesting because I feel like for me, the Holy Ghost is so many different things to me. I mean, it means so many different things to me. Every time I'm at church, listening to a talk or in Relief Society, I feel the Holy Ghost. Like you can feel that rush come through you and you feel good and it's warm. But there's so many other things. The Holy Ghost helps me make decisions. Like Holly said, whether it's with my kids, or at work, or with whatever I'm doing, but I love that it says it descended to him in the "form of a dove" because I feel like there are certain signs that come to me in different forms, and I know it's the Holy Ghost testifying different things to me.
Tammy 13:01
Great answer.
Both of those are very good. So you guys ready to learn all we can about the Holy Ghost?
Holly 13:07
Yes.
Tammy 13:07
So if it feels like we're going fast, we are. But we're going to put all of the references that we're talking about in our show notes so everyone can access all of the things the Holy Ghost can do for you, what the Holy Ghost looks like. One of my favorite lessons to teach when I would teach seminary, I would have all these scriptures up on the board, and we would just go boom, boom, boom, down, and it's so fun to watch students come alive as you teach them and you'll hear kids go, "Wait, that Holy Ghost can do that." You know, it's really fun. So we're going to do that with these scriptures. And we're going to start first in Doctrine and Covenants section 130, verse 22. Let's find out first of all, what the Holy Ghost looks like because this was a game changer for me. I did not learn this until I was in college. I'm not gonna lie. I was born and raised as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but there's not a song about what the Holy Ghost looks like because I know everything through songs, so if someone could write a song about that. That'd be great. All right, and then Haley will you read that?
Haley 14:01
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."
Tammy 14:16
Thank you. "A personage of spirit." So the Holy Ghost will look like a human form. And you know earlier when I said, "he looks like Casper, the friendly ghost," as a kid in the 70s, that was like a cartoon that I loved. And so I'm just saying that like, to me, the Holy Ghost just looked like this white ghostly image, maybe under a sheet. I don't know. I just didn't know. And reading this helped me go, "Oh, he looks like a human form. That is awesome." Okay, that changes how I view him. And if the Holy Ghost weren't a percentage of spirit, it couldn't dwell within us, or the spirit, the influence of the Holy Ghost couldn't dwell with us. So that's what I really like about that verse.
And then Haley, you talked about how the scripture said in second Nephi that his sign was a dove. So this is really cool. Let's go back to second Nephi, chapter 31 verse eight. Circle the word "dove" and right "sign" right next to it. So the sign of the dove, this is neat, the sign of the dove was instituted before the earth was even created. And john recognized this with heavenly eyes in John chapter one verse 32. The Holy Ghost didn't become a dove. So we need to understand that. The Holy Ghost didn't become a dove, it was decided in the preexistence that the dove would be the sign of the Holy Ghost, so that when the Savior was baptized, the Holy Ghost showed up to give a sort of like a sanctioning of, "Here I am. I'm sanctioning this, what's happening to the Savior Jesus Christ."
Holly 15:41
Oh, that's fascinating. I always thought it was the Holy Ghost.
Tammy 15:44
Yeah, I did too until I learned that I'm like, "Oh, it was instituted before the world began. We all approved. We will recognize the dove as a sign of the Holy Ghost."
Holly 15:53
Yeah. Which is so the Holy Ghost did not turn into a dove.
Tammy 15:56
No did not.
Holly 15:57
...and come flying down.
Tammy 15:58
But it's neat when you consider this story of Noah. When the ark was floating and they were waiting for there to be land. What was the bird that brought the olive branch?
Holly 16:06
The dove.
Tammy 16:07
The dove. A sign of peace. Yeah, the sign of the Holy Ghost saying the earth has been cleansed. And now we're ready. I just think that's neat. And so it's kind of cool because the symbol of the Holy Ghost is fire. And that was like, "Wait, okay. If the sign is the dove, the symbol is fire. I was trying to figure out like, what is like, what's the difference between a sign or a symbol," right? That was confusing. So this was neat when I read this quote, by Elder Bednar, he said right here, "Because the Holy Ghost acts as a cleansing agent to purify the person and sanctifies from all sin," Elder Bednar says, "hence we are born again and strive to always have his spirit to be with us. The Holy Ghost sanctifies and refines our souls as if by fire. Ultimately we are to stand spotless before God." And so his sign of peace is the dove and a symbol is the fire. I thought that was kind of neat. Wow, two different things. Alright, here we go, we're gonna go into more things to the Holy Ghost will do. Let's go to John chapter seven, verse 39. And as we read these, I want you just to pull out what the Holy Ghost can do in these verses of scripture. Okay, Holly, John chapter seven, verse 39, will you read that for us?
Holly 17:14
"(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
Tammy 17:27
Okay, this is neat. The Holy Ghost was not fully operational during the time of Christ's ministry, and no one knows why. And so when you look up the word Holy Ghost in the Bible Dictionary, it will tell you that, it will say no one knows why, we just know the Holy Ghost wasn't fully in operation. There were no gifts of the Spirit during the time of Christ's ministry, but people could feel the influence of the Holy Ghost to be converted. So that's kind of an interesting thing about the Holy Ghost.
Holly 17:53
Yeah, that's just fascinating. It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't know why.
Tammy 17:58
Yeah, and no one does it. But it is interesting to know you're like, "I didn't know that."
Holly 18:03
Well I feel like I should know all.
Tammy 18:05
Well, you do know a lot actually as my older sister. I want you to think about this Holly and Haley, what experience have you had with the Holy Ghost?
Haley 18:14
I think my favorite experience was when I was sealed to my family. And when my kids walked in, in white, they were... Leo was a baby and Rady was three. And when they brought them in in their white clothing and handed them to us, and we sat across from each other on the altar, I will never forget that experience and how powerful that was. And I hope I get to feel the spirit that strong over and over again and I do as I go to the temple, but there will be nothing like that day and that feeling. Why do you think the Holy Ghost was present? Why did you have that experience there?
Holly 18:50
Because he testifies of truth. A good friend taught me that. Any truth that is said no matter what it is, I feel the spirit. There's nothing more truthful than having your family sealed to you for all eternity. And I too have felt the spirit the strongest in the temple at a wedding. It was so all encompassing. I couldn't breathe. I had never felt anything like that since in my life. I feel like I feel the spirit a lot. But it was powerful that day in the temple and Neal A. Maxwell was sealing them. But when I said to her father, "Wow, that was most incredible thing." And Neal A. Maxwell was there selling and he said, "Well, it wasn't him. It was that they were so prepared to be there." And I loved that. And it was that cute couple that was so worthy. But the spirit in that room was intense and beautiful. I'll never forget it.
Tammy 19:54
I think that those words you just said made me think of Haley and your your husband when you said they were so prepared to be there.
Right.
I mean you had prepared, you and your husband had prepared yourselves to be there.
Haley 20:03
Yes. And we had been preparing for a long time. That wasn't an easy path for us. And I think that's what made it so much more meaningful is that we did it on our own time. And that was when we felt we were ready and it meant that much more. But I love what Holly said that the Holy Ghost testifies truth because it's so true. Anytime I hear some sort of truth or...
Holly 20:29
Yeah, and no matter where you hear it.
Tammy 20:31
Yeah, in math class, at the capitol, at 7/11. Absolutely
Haley 20:34
It doesn't have to be in the temple.
Holly 20:36
No, the Spirit testifies, and you get that feeling. However you feel the spirit, everyone's different. I get chills.
Tammy 20:42
Well, this is awesome, because in the next segment, we're going to talk about all of the ways you can feel the spirit and then specifics of what the Spirit can do for you.
Segment 3 20:58
Segment 3
Tammy 21:00
It's worth mentioning how I met Holly for this next segment because I met you through your sister Amy, Amy and I are best friends. And then she introduces me to you, this poor struggling mother with little kids and didn't have time to go to institute and really study the Scriptures. And I was single as a seminary teacher. So I was like, "I'll do you a favor." And I said, "Every Thursday, I will come to your house and teach you what I taught in seminary."
Holly 21:25
Well, we asked you to. It was the greatest gift in our lives.
Tammy 21:29
There were three moms with little kids. And you guys all came to the house every Thursday, right?
Holly 21:34
17 years ago, we had babies and Tammy with teach us lessons about the scriptures. And it was powerful.
Tammy 21:43
I mean, I really thought I was doing you such a great favor. I was so self absorbed. "I'll help you." I mean, little did I know that like 10 years after that you would help me with becoming insta mom and raising kids. I mean, it was beautiful. But I can remember one of the first lessons I taught, I'd never experienced this with someone, I taught you a truth and you stoped and you said, "Oh, that gives me chills," and you had goosebumps all over your arm. And that is what you just said earlier. That's one of the ways you feel the spirit.
Holly 22:11
I do. When the Spirit comes upon me really quickly and intensely it's always chills.
Tammy 22:17
Always chills?
Holly 22:18
Always.
Tammy 22:18
It's never chills for me, which is interesting. I feel it a different way.
Holly 22:21
Never?
Tammy 22:22
No, I would never say I feel it with chills.
Holly 22:24
If someone's telling me a spiritual experience that happened to them, the spirit testifies, and I get chills, back of my legs, my whole body.
Tammy 22:33
I've seen it. I know. Haley, how do you feel the spirit? Is there a specific way that you feel it?
Haley 22:38
Well, Holly and I are twins. We're the same person sometimes. And I feel chills a lot as well, but always a warming in my heart. So a little bit of both.
Tammy 22:49
And people listening are like, "Do I feel the spirit that way? How do I feel the spirit?" And this is a really common question is, "Well, I don't feel it that way. So doesn't mean I'm not feeling it?" And I really love this scripture in the Book of Galatians. Let's turn there. It's in the New Testament. It's Galatians chapter five. It's like First Corinthians, Second Corinthians, Galatians, that's where we are and Holly I'll give you the page number we're on page 1479. That always helps if you have the page number.
Holly 23:13
Tammy always gives us the page number which really helps.
Tammy 23:16
Yeah, cause I would always have students say, "Is that in the big book or the little book?" Meaning the Bible or the Book of Mormon.
Holly 23:21
Right.
Tammy 23:22
Big Book. Okay, here is one of my favorite scriptures. Here all the ways you can feel the spirit. It's in Galatians chapter five, verses 22 and 23. Haley read those for us because this is so fun.
Haley 23:33
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."
Tammy 23:45
I mean, I would recommend taking those two verses and studying them for a week, looking up each word, and we wouldn't have time, but looking up what each word means because I remember for me, I love the "longsuffering." Boy. Anyone who's ever experienced longsuffering with kids, family members, friends, if you can hold your tongue and suffer long, who knew you're filling the spirit? Am I right?
Holly 24:07
Right? Well, I love this because in primary, I feel like one of my main objectives is to help the children recognize when they feel the spirit. So anytime I get up to talk to them, I asked them, Did any of you feel the spirit? And a lot of them don't know. They don't know how to articulate it. They don't know. So we discuss it. And sometimes kids will say, "I feel warm," or, "I feel good." But I always try to help the children recognize because I feel it's so important that we know this. That these are the ways we can feel it and everybody feels it differently. That we don't have to have chills or cry necessarily, right? Because I also cry.
Tammy 24:50
Yeah.
Holly 24:51
And my husband taught me that. Because he's not a crier, and when I first got married the first few years we'd go to church, very spiritual things and he wouldn't cry. And he looked at me and said, "You think I feel this less than you do?" And I said, "Yeah, I do. You're not crying. Like how could that have not made you cry? It was so beautiful. And the Spirit was so strong." He said, "I absolutely felt that, but I just don't cry." And I, you know, I was like 29 years old when I discovered that like, "Oh, not everyone cries when they feel the spirit that way."
Tammy 25:31
Like sometimes when I go speak to teenagers, and I'll say at the end of my talk, like "raise your hand if you just feel good. If you felt joy today, and you're happy you're here," and they'll raise their hand I'm like, "You're feeling the spirit, boom, spirit, spirit, spirit." Because sometimes we think joy doesn't really mean that and it does, it means the spirit. Now let's go into then what the Spirit can do for us because these are some fun verses of scripture. So we will spend our time in John because this is where the Savior is going to teach us about the Holy Ghost. So in John chapter 14, verse 26, and the reason why we're going over all of this about the Holy Ghost is because Nephi wants us in Second Nephi 31, 32, and 33, to know about the Holy Ghost, he talks about it so much. So I feel like it's really important for us to know then what the Holy Ghost will do for us. So let's go into these verses in John and read a couple of things about the Holy Ghost. So Haley hit it.
Haley 26:22
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
Tammy 26:34
So let's look at 26. There are three specific things the Holy Ghost will do for you in that verse. What did you find when you read that?
Holly 26:41
He'll comfort.
Tammy 26:42
Yes. What's the next thing the Holy Ghost will do?
Haley 26:45
Teach.
Tammy 26:46
Perfect, and the last thing...
Holly 26:48
He'll bring things to your rememberance.
Tammy 26:49
Perfect. That's a great one. And that really does work. And I can testify of that because I taught my little 10 year old that. She was studying for a test. And I said if you study Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost will bring all things to your remembrance. So she did. She studied and then she went to take the test, and we prayed that morning before she took the test. And she walked out the door and I was like, "Oh Heavenly Father, please let this work." Never prayed so hard in my life that this really was true. And she went and took the test and she came home I was like, "Oh.. how did you do?" And she's like, "100%," and I was like, "It works." The Holy Ghost really did bring everything to her remembrance. So it does that. It's so cool. Turn the page in John chapter 15, verse 26, it also says it's a comforter, but there's something else specific that the Holy Ghost will do. Holly, read that one.
Holly 27:34
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
Tammy 27:45
What's that word at the end? The Holy Ghost will what?
Holly 27:47
"Testify."
Tammy 27:48
Brilliant. Turn the page. Chapter 16 verse 13. There's something else the Holy Ghost will do. Haley read that.
Haley 27:54
"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
Tammy 28:08
Okay, so what will he do at the very end?
Holly 28:10
"Shew you things to come." So you're going to tell us what "shew" means?
Tammy 28:14
Show. "Show you things to come." Yes, very good, "show you things to come." Now turn to Second Nephi chapter 32 verse three because I really like what the Holy Ghost can do for us in this verse. And Holly, I'm specifically asking you to read this because it makes me think of you every time. So read this verse.
Holly 28:31
"Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."
Tammy 28:45
Circle the word "angels" in that verse. Here's something really cool. So the word "angels" in Hebrew, actually is translated mile Akeem. And the neat thing about that word in Hebrew is it means "messengers." And I love the idea of whom the messengers are. Who are the messengers today? Who are the obvious messengers of Christ's word?
Holly 29:06
The Prophet and the Twelve Apostles.
Tammy 29:07
Absolutely. And when we think about prophets, apostles missionaries, then who else are messengers?
Everyone, ourselves.
Absolutely, when you look at this, I can speak by the power of the Holy Ghost, "Wherefore, I will speak the words of Christ." This idea or this gift or ability to speak the words of Christ, to be able to speak to people and Haley you said this at the very beginning that the Savior will teach us in our own language, that we have the ability to be messengers using God's language and speaking to people, and the reason why it makes me think of you Holly is that is for sure your spiritual gift. Your gift is to talk to people and get them to share their entire life story in the first five seconds of knowing them.
Holly 29:46
It's true.
Tammy 29:48
Here's my favorite story. We worked at Deseret Book together. Back in the day I was single, you were married, we were earning Christmas money. So in Utah at the time, there was a man who had been accused of murdering his wife. A man by the name of Mark Hacking. And we had a new guy that just decided to work for Deseret Book. And we met him the first day. And we're starting to talk to him. And he's Mark Hacking's brother. And we were like, "Oh, this is this is amazing, the story." So we're talking to him, and then there's a lady at the register with one book. So I'm like, "I gotta run and I'm going to hurry up and help this lady out." I rang up the book, did the transaction, by the time I got back, he was sobbing hysterically telling his entire life story to Holly. And I just thought, "Who can do that... only Holly, that is Holly's gift," and she spoke to him and comforted him.
Holly 30:33
I always say if I had a dime, even for every time somebody said, "I can't believe I just told you that." I'd be a millionarie.
Tammy 30:40
Oh, sure.
Haley 30:42
But I told you earlier that you just bring a comfort to so many people.
Tammy 30:47
You are a messenger. So when we look at how the Holy Ghost then works in our own lives, that's what's so wonderful about this gift. The Holy Ghost can do things for us. And then through the power of the Holy Ghost, we can do things for people and we're going to talk about that in the next segment.
Segment 4 31:10
Segment 4
Tammy 31:12
We talked about the things the Holy Ghost can do for us, and now we want to talk about things we can do for other people because of the gift of the Holy Ghost. And so we know what Holly's gift is. And Haley, I want you kind of think about this in your own life, especially as a mom in motherhood in the throes of raising little tiny kids. Have you had an experience where the Holy Ghost has helped you, mother?
Haley 31:31
When I first became a mother, I didn't have the Holy Ghost with me very strongly at the time during my pregnancy, and it wasn't until my baby was placed on my chest that I felt the Holy Ghost, I hadn't felt it in a long time. And it was so strong that day that I knew that was something I needed in my life all the time. And since then, I have used the Holy Ghost all the time in mothering and I think it started from that moment of becoming a mother and realizing how powerful that is. So keeping my faith strong, and obviously praying and reading my scriptures, that's what's going to help me to have that Holy Ghost with me, so I can use it and have it to help me guide me.
Tammy 32:20
Holly, something resonated in you when she said that. I wish people could see a camera on people when they're here because you got emotional.
Holly 32:27
Oh, well, Haley's just come so far. And she's worked so hard on her spirituality and to just think of that precious baby being placed on her and feeling the spirit and recognizing that is just powerful to me, as her aunt but for anybody. When when you see anybody make great choices in their life, it's so beautiful. And then again, the spirit testifies to you that it's true. And when she was talking the spirit once again testified to me of the truthfulness of what she was saying. But can I say something about the spirit? My, my sister, Amy, that you were talking about, she lives by the Spirit more than anybody I know.
Tammy 33:10
Absolutely.
Holly 33:11
There's nobody who follows the spirit more than her. And she does more good for people than anybody I know. And I will say to her, "Amy, you do so much I wish I could do that. I wish I felt the spirit like you do that would guide me to do these things." And she says, "Holly, you have to recognize it, and then you have to act." Anyway, it's an interesting concept to me that the more you do it, the easier it becomes.
Tammy 33:40
Well, I will say Amy taught me this because a lot of times we think and maybe someone's thinking this right now, "Well, how do I know if it's my own crazy mind or if it's the Spirit speaking to me?" And Amy lives by this scripture in Doctrine and Covenants section 11, verse 12. If you're wondering, "How do I know the difference?" This is one of the most powerful verses of scripture, Doctrine and Covenants section 11 verse 12, it says, "And now, verily, verily, I say unto thee, put your trust in that Spirit which leadeth to do good—yea, to do justly, to walk humbly, to judge righteously; and this is my Spirit."
Any good thought you have is the spirit. Any thought you have to be just and kind and humble is the spirit, and I have since meeting Amy, I've tried to live by that. Any good thought I have to do something like, you see someone at the store and you think, "Oh, she looks cute. I should tell her," or even in the hallway at junior high I thought that plenty of times, but the spirit would say, "Tell her she looks cute." And I'm like, "No way cause she's already stuck up enough."
So I wouldn't say it.
And then I read a talk and I was like, "Oh, that's pride. Huh." So I think it's interesting like any good thought you have is the Spirit speaking to you to use you. And there's some other ways he can use us. Let's go to Alma chapter 10 verse 17. The context is its Alma and Amulek and this is one of the gifts that amulet had.
Holly 34:53
"Now they knew not that Amulek could know of their designs. But it came to pass as they began to question him, he perceived their thoughts, and he said unto them..."
Tammy 35:04
Pause right there. What did he do?
Holly 35:06
He perceived their thoughts.
Tammy 35:07
Oh, yeah, that's a real thing. And I've had that happened to me, one time my daughter, she took a bracelet from her friend's house. And it was at our house, and I knew it wasn't ours. And I said, "Where did you get this?" And she said, "A friend gave it to her," and I said, "That's not true. You took it from someone, didn't you?" And she looked guilty. And I said, "Take it back. You need to go take it back." So she ran back. I was cooking dinner. She comes back in the house, and I'm cooking dinner and the thought comes mean, it says, "She just hid it. She didn't give it back." And I called her back in and I said, "You didn't really give it back, did you?" And she's like, "I did, I did." And I said, "No, you didn't. You hid it under the porch, and you're going to go back and get it later tonight." And she looked at me wide eyed and goes, "How do you know that? Mom, how did you know?"
And I'm like, "Go get it and give it back." Like it's just funny how for some people that is a way that the Holy Ghost will use you to perceive others thoughts, which is really interesting.
I love this quote though. I have a quote by Parley P. Pratt. It's my all time favorite quote on the gift of the Holy Ghost that I think is worth reading for everyone to hear. So here we go.
“The gift of the Holy Ghost . . . quickens all the intellectual faculties, increases, enlarges, expands and purifies all the natural passions and affections; and adapts them, by the gift of wisdom, to their lawful use. It inspires, develops, cultivates and matures all the fine-toned sympathies, joys, tastes, kindred feelings, and affections of our nature. It inspires virtue, kindness, goodness, tenderness, gentleness, and charity. It develops beauty of person, form and features. It tends to health, vigor, animation, and social feeling. It invigorates all the faculties of the physical and intellectual man. It strengthens, and gives tone to the nerves. In short, it is, as it were, marrow to the bone, joy to the heart, light to the eyes, music to the ears, and life to the whole being” (Parley P. Patt, Key to the Science of Theology, p. 61).
Holly 36:57
Who said that?
Tammy 36:58
Parley P. Pratt.
And so what we need to do now is now that we've talked about all of the things the Holy Ghost can do for us and with us, we need to read the verse of scripture that teaches us how we can then have the Holy Ghost with us to do all these wonderful things. And we read in second Nephi, Chapter 32, verse three, we read that verse already, but the specific part of that verse is feasting upon the words of Christ. We're going to talk about that in the next segment.
Segment 5 37:31
Segment 5
Tammy 37:33
Holly, will you do me a favor, I want you to just right now. Use the words that you use to describe when you're eating something that is so good.
Holly 37:42
Well, of course, the number one word is "divine."
Tammy 37:46
You're my favorite person to eat with. I love eating with you more than anyone because you're so descriptive.
Holly 37:52
Well, and we hope the word "buttery" is also in there.
Tammy 37:57
It's funny to me because one time we were eating together and you were like, "This is the most divine thing I've ever tasted."
Holly 38:04
Right? Food is so good.
Tammy 38:06
It is so good.
And I use that descriptive word now too. I taught all the nursery kids when I was in nursery a while ago, the only word I wanted them to learn was "delicious." And so they'd eat their goldfish and I would say, "This is delicious." They didn't know how to pray, but they knew how to say "delicious," by the time they were three.
So Holly, you love food so much and describing it, what is a feast?
Holly 38:29
Oh, well, a feast to me would be my very favorite things and as much of it as I can get.
Tammy 38:35
Like, What?
Holly 38:36
Oh, popcorn would be my number one. Steak and potatoes. I don't know just a lot of really good food, and I would want as much as I could possibly get. If I'm gonna feast right?
Tammy 38:52
Yes, that's the whole idea.
Holly 38:54
Yeah, I'm gonna want a lot.
Tammy 38:56
Haley?
Haley 38:57
Taking it all in. I love the buffet. You can just load it up.
Holly 39:01
Yeah, and if you don't like it, move on to something else.
Tammy 39:04
Mm hmm. That's my favorite thing about a buffet, just a bite of everything. Lots and lots of bites. I think it's really interesting that Nephi uses that word to describe what we can do to have the Holy Ghost with us.
Look back at Second Nephi chapter 32 verse three. I want us to talk about this idea. And in the middle of the verse, he says, "...feast upon the words of Christ." Now here's what I want you to do, draw a line and connect verse three to verse nine, because these are the two keys to having the spirit with us so I just have a little arrow going from "feast upon the words of Christ" to "pray always and not faint." These are the two things that Nephi teaches us. Let's talk first about feasting upon the words of Christ. What does this look like in our daily lives? What do you think that Nephi is trying to teach us with these words?
Holly 39:49
Oh, feasting upon the words of Christ is a lot different to me, then just, you know, reading your scriptures, you know, "kids get together. We've gotta read this one verse before you go to bed because we're supposed to," and I don't think it necessarily has to mean just the scriptures. When I'm feasting upon the words of Christ, it can be, you know, like a conference talk, and really taking that to heart. And that to me is feasting upon the words of Christ.
Tammy 40:17
I also think that feasting can just be one verse of scripture, there have been times where I've studied one verse for like a week, or one phrase or something. That for me is feasting, where I just think about it all the time.
Holly 40:28
But I don't feast on the word all the time. There's many days that just reading the Scripture, one scripture is great. And I don't feel bad about that. But there are times when I do need to feast. Usually when I'm struggling with something it's like that I really need to delve in to the scriptures and find out what is in there for me.
Haley 40:52
For me, working full time and a mother of two small children. It's very hard to find that time, so for me personally it's just keeping the words of Christ in my heart at all times because in those stressful moments at work, or I'm like running to go get my kids, or my two year old is throwing a huge tantrum, keeping the words of Christ in my heart is my feasting because if I can respond immediately, with not screaming at him and losing my mind, then that was, that was my plus for the day, and that was me realizing that I am okay. And because I have this in my heart, I can think of a song or I can think of a scripture or just something that will kind of lighten me and bring me back to earth and keep me calm. That's kind of the best I can do right now. And there will be times when I'll be able to really dive into different scriptures in different chapters, and that's going to be a great time. I look forward to that when I can read a conference talk every night. But that's what gets me through.
Tammy 42:06
Well, here's a great quote by Elder Hales that basically confirms what both of you have said, Haley, will you read this quote?
Haley 42:12
"If you and I are to feast upon the words of Christ, we must study the Scriptures and absorb his words through pondering them, and making them a part of every thought in action."
Tammy 42:24
Just thinking about it, having it with you, going through it, so the idea of what feasing and feasting looks different for everybody, that's what I like about that word because we've often talked about this where when we're together, my feasting is different than yours, but we're both full at the end of the meal. And so that is what is beautiful about this. It's different for everyone. So feasting upon the words of Christ. And then the next thing we have to do is pray always.
In Second Nephi chapter 32, verse nine, it says, "But behold, I say unto you that ye must pray always, and not faint..." Now this is an interesting one, the idea of "praying always." What does that look like? I mean, that can seem a little bit overwhelming, right? What are we talking about? What do you think Nephi is trying to tell us here with "pray always."
Haley 43:08
I think just always having a prayer in your heart, similar to having the words of Christ in your heart. And obviously saying your prayers every night and really, really diving into that is something we should all do. But throughout your day, little hard times, you can say, a little prayer in your heart.
Tammy 43:26
Let's mark some of the words in here because I think this is kind of cool. When it says to "not faint," highlight that word and to the side write, "The word 'faint' here means not to weaken or give up." That's what we're talking about, don't weaken or give up on the prayer. And the word "consecrate," if we continue to read, it says, "that ye must not perform any thing unto the Lord save in the first place ye shall pray unto the Father in the name of Christ, that he will consecrate thy performance unto thee, that thy performance may be for the welfare of thy soul."
Highlight the word "consecrate," that word means to dedicate, to make holy, or become righteous but the idea of to dedicate what you're doing in the name of the Lord and what you're praying for, is going to help you. So when you dedicate and you don't give up on your prayer, it's a beautiful idea of how we are praying always is exactly what you said, just having a prayer in your heart constantly praying, and praying frequently. Holly, will you read this quote by Ezra Taft Benson about praying always?
Holly 44:26
“We should pray frequently. We should be alone with our Heavenly Father at least two or three times each day—‘morning, mid-day, and evening,’ as the scripture indicates. (See Alma 34:21.) In addition, we are told to pray always. (See 2 Ne. 32:9; D&C 88:126.) This means that our hearts should be full, drawn out in prayer unto our Heavenly Father continually (See Alma 34:27.)” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Ezra Taft Benson [2014], 52).
So I struggle with this.
Tammy 44:48
Why?
Holly 44:48
Because prayer doesn't make sense to me, actually, and I pray and I pray a lot, but let me put it this way. As a parent, my child will ask if they can do something and I say, "No, you can't do that." Now, they keep asking me and asking me and asking me, am I gonna say, "Okay, I guess you can because you had your friends ask me, and they asked me, and then 300,000 people asked me. If you get enough people, then I'll change my mind." So I struggle with, how does that work? And when we get in the car, and I do it every time, we were on vacation last weekend, we're driving home, as soon as we get in the car, "Okay, who's going to say the prayer for safety?" So we pray and then the whole time I'm thinking, "So we're going to crash before but now I said this prayer, so now we're going to be okay." I don't get that. I don't know how it works. And we're supposed to pray in all things. And I do, but I don't get it.
Tammy 45:48
So Holly, I totally understand. And I'm sure there's other people out there that have the same question or thought, and I know I did years ago because I just gave a lesson on prayer to some of my students and I was praying for something specific and I wasn't getting it. And I'd been praying for quite a while. And I was like, "Okay, seriously though," I said, "I'm righteous, I'm humble, I'm good. I'm asking with a sincere heart. Why aren't you giving me what I'm asking for?"
And then I taught this lesson, and I found Doctrine and Covenants section 18, verse 18. I want you to put this cross reference next to it.
It's Doctrine and Covenants 88, verse 64 and 65. And here's what it says, "Whatsoever ye ask the Father in my name it shall be given unto you, that is expedient for you..." Now, the word "expedient" means necessary so I'm going to read it again, putting necessary instead of expedient because it's just easier for me. "Whatsoever ye ask the Father in my name it shall be given unto you, that is 'necessary' for you; And if ye ask anything that is not necessary for you, it shall turn unto your condemnation."
Then you're like, "Well, then how do I even know?" And then you go to Section 18, verse 18, and Holly read that. Here's what the Holy Ghost will do for you:
Holly 46:53
"Ask the Father in my name in faith, believing that you shall receive, and you shall have the Holy Ghost, which manifesteth all things which are expedient unto the children of men."
Tammy 47:06
Or necessary, right? So when I taught that I was like, "Oh my gosh, maybe I shouldn't be praying for this." So I went back to Heavenly Father on my knees and I said, "Heavenly Father, should I even be praying for this thing that I've been praying for so long?" And the Spirit as clear as day said, "Nope." And I was like, "All right, I guess I'm not praying for that anymore." And then I asked how I should change my prayer, and it gave me the words that I needed to change my prayer. And I think of your experience, can you imagine if this child who's constantly asking, asking, asking instead then came to you and said, "Mom, should I even be asking for this?" And you go, "No, you shouldn't." And here's what you should probably ask for instead, "How would that change?"
Holly 47:44
But I still struggle with praying that we drive home safely. Like, is he listening to that and going to answer that?
Tammy 47:53
So Holly, it's such a great question. I'm going to guide you to read the word "prayer" in the Bible Dictionary and I just, I hate that we can't... It's a whole other lesson to talk about prayer. Are you okay to just sit with it until we get to Enos?
Holly 48:06
Okay, okay, I've waited 50 years. I think I can wait a few more weeks.
Tammy 48:10
You can sit with it for two more...
Holly 48:11
But I'm glad I will read in the Bible Dictionary.
Tammy 48:14
Yeah, the Bible Dictionary word "prayer." And when we get to Enos, we're going to spend the whole time talking about prayer. And there's actually a really cool recipe for receiving answers to prayers, and what that looks like in our lives. I promise you. Enos, we'll get there."
Holly 48:28
Thank you.
Tammy 48:28
Okay. So we've talked about the things we need to do to feast upon the words of Christ and to pray always, that the gift of the Holy Ghost will be so powerful in our lives, as it uses us and we're able to do things because of the Holy Ghost. And the last thing we want to talk about in the next segment then, is this whole life that we have and a common phrase that we say often in our culture is "endure to the end," and what that looks like and what it means.
Segment 6 48:51
Segment 6
Tammy 49:01
Okay guys, we're almost in the homestretch. This is our last segment and I couldn't think of a better theme for the last thing we're going to talk about, which is this classic phrase, "endure to the end." What in the world? What does that mean? Come on. When you hear it Holly, you look a little like...
Holly 49:16
Well, anybody who has struggled with children, which I think everyone has who's had children, but especially grown children, you really learn what that phrase means, "endure to the end," but I think everybody does in any trials in their life. And it's a hard concept when you're in the thick of it.
Tammy 49:34
Okay, we're going to read the verses of scripture that say that and then I'm gonna come back to you Holly for a story. I want you to go to Second Nephi and we're going to look at chapter 31. And we're going to read verses 20 through 21. Haley, will you please read that?
"Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life."
Thank you. We're gonna pause there for a minute. Holly, when you were in the thick of it. What did enduring to the end look like for you though?
Holly 50:17
Well, I'm still kind of in the thick of it right? Enduring to the end was just minute by minute somedays and you truly had to put all of your trust and faith and be steadfast in Christ. It was the only thing that could get you through. And it's hard and it's continually hard. When you believe something to be so true that it gives you so much joy and happiness and then people you love, your child, or a loved one is struggling so much, not just with the gospel, but with life and substance abuse and a lot of things that just it's very difficult to see the future, and to have that hope, every day that things will get better. And that's where I love that God places people in your path. I'm always so grateful that people listen to the Holy Ghost and they seem to come right when you need them. And so you can share their light to help you get through those difficult days, those times where you can't do it yourself.
Tammy 51:32
And were there days like that for you?
Holly 51:34
Oh yeah.
Tammy 51:35
What did that day look like?
Holly 51:37
You know, it's interesting because as I was reading this, these chapters, it touched me so much and it brought me back to those particular nights where it says Nephi praised in the day and then his pillow is... what is it, wet? What is the exact words?
Tammy 51:52
Let's read it Holly. Second Nephi chapter 33, verse three: "But I, Nephi, have written what I have written, and I esteem it as of great worth, and especially unto my people. For I pray continually for them by day..." Makes me cry, because I know who you're talking about and I love this child of yours so much. He says, "...I pray continually for them by day, and mine eyes water my pillow by night, because of them; and I cry unto my God in faith, and I know that he will hear my cry."
Holly 52:21
Yeah, when I read that, it touched my heart so much to think of this amazing man, this prophet Nephi crying into his pillow at night for his people that he loved so much. And I thought, "I get it, I know, because I have done the same," I have cried in my pillow at night many many times. And thinking you know, "There's no hope," and you're just sadened, and that scripture just brought me a lot of comfort and a lot of peace. And it made me think, "I can't wait to meet Nephi."
Tammy 52:57
Right, right.
Holly 52:58
But no one's immune to it either. The scriptures brought me a lot of peace during... they still do, a lot of times in my life when I'm going through those really hard times to think that it doesn't matter who we are, it doesn't matter how great we think we are, that we have raised our kids so well, we've read our scriptures at night, they go to seminary, I try to magnify my calling, it doesn't matter.
Tammy 53:24
Yeah.
Holly 53:24
We're all susceptible to it. And there's also incredible great things that have come out of it for me. Beautiful things that I wouldn't have experienced any other way. And so, I'm grateful for that.
Tammy 53:39
One of the things that I love about being your friend and watching you raise kids, and then me, I come and start raising my kids, is learning from your experience. And what I will say is the example that you and your husband Robert, were to me is found in verse 10. I think you continue to do this and this rings true for what you had just said. Holly, will you please read Second Nephi chapter 33, verse 10?
Holly 54:01
"And now, my beloved brethren, and also Jew, and all ye ends of the earth, hearken unto these words and believe in Christ; and if ye believe not in these words believe in Christ. And if ye shall believe in Christ ye will believe in these words, for they are the words of Christ, and he hath given them unto me; and they teach all men that they should do good."
Tammy 54:28
What I love about this idea is that you guys believed in Christ, and you never stopped believing in Christ. So Haley, we just read verse 10, you shared a little bit about your story, how has believing in Christ helped you endure to the end?
Haley 54:42
When you read scriptures like this, I feel like you always go back to those hard times. And those hard times help you grow. And one hard time I think of which has turned into such a blessing for me is when I was young and in college and just living the best life not married, and found out I was pregnant. I think back on this specific day not seeing any light.
And at the time, I didn't have a strong testimony and I didn't have the Holy Ghost with me, I felt, but looking back, I did in that moment because something came over me. And at the time, I would have said, "Something magical came over me," but it was the Spirit. And that something told me, which is the Holy Ghost, to text my mom. And over my dead body, I was never going to tell my mom in that time, and I texted my mom and I said, "I need you." Those three words. And she said, "I'm on my way."
She didn't ask any questions. She just said, "I'm on my way." And she lived about 20 minutes away, and she came in and I said, "I'm pregnant and I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't want a baby." And I don't know what my options are. And she said, "Whatever you decide to do, I will support you and I will be there for you."
And at that time, that was, that was Christ speaking to me, that wasn't my mom, and she will even say, looking back on that something came over her to give her those words and that was such a hard time, obviously a hard day for all of us. But to hear those words from her, it was the spirit hugging me in that time, and they were the words of Christ, and that time and everything was fine from that time on.
Obviously, it was really hard and now it's the biggest blessing in my life, and it's really shaped who I am today and also, my family. Obviously I have this beautiful daughter now and I'm married and I'm sealed to my family, and that was a really big turning point in me. And that started my endure to the end. And I'm still enduring, but that was the words of Christ that day.
Tammy 57:17
Haley, I love in your story, as you were telling that story, I was like, "Wow, your your mom," we've been talking so much about what the Holy Ghost does for us and what we do for people. And just a beautiful example of how your mom did all those things. Your mom spoke the words of Christ, your mom's gift of the Spirit said what needed to be said and comforted you when you needed to be comforted. And the beauty of that is she was the angel, she was the messenger, and how every one of us have the ability to do that and help each other endure to the end, this is not, this is not a race to be run alone. Every one of us are in this race together and we have to endure to the end together.
I have all these quotes about running and racing, and I'll put those in the show notes because we don't have time to read them all. But I do want to read one of my favorite ones by Joseph B. Wirthlin. In a 1989, General Conference, October address, this is what he says, he's kind of my favorite because he's so real. “An obvious parallel between life and a marathon is the necessity to run diligently and endure to the end. Among his final words to his people, Nephi told them: ‘And now, … after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; … Ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ … and endure to the end’ (2 Nephi 31:19–20)” (“Running Your Marathon”).
And his talk is called running your marathon. And what that looks like for you, and everyone's marathon is different, and everyone runs at a different pace. But the results are the same. We're all going to end up at the same place. And that's the goal of our Heavenly Father. And so I just love this beautiful discussion we've had today about enduring to the end and what it looks like with the Holy Ghost in our life and what the Holy Ghost can do for us, and then what we can do for others. What is so impressive about this is those are Nephi's last words to us. That's what he has to, to cap it out with. And when I think about if I were to die, what I would want my kids to have hear me say before I pass away, I might just read second Nephi 31 through 33.
Holly 59:13
That was beautiful.
Tammy 59:14
Yeah.
Holly 59:15
I'm grateful I got to reread those in such a different light.
Tammy 59:18
Good versese. Think about all the things we've discussed today. What's your big takeaway? What's your big "aha?"
Holly 59:25
I think my favorite quote is that one that you read that told all of the things that...
Tammy 59:30
From Parley P. Pratt?
Holly 59:30
Yes. I can't wait to get a copy of that. And just feast on that, actually, because I loved all of those words that he used to describe the gifts of the Spirit and what it can do. And I loved that.
Tammy 59:45
The one that struck me, "it makes you more beautiful."
Holly 59:47
Yeah, I know. I was hoping people feel the spirit a lot around me.
Tammy 59:51
I'm gonna work on that.
Haley 59:54
I loved talking about the Holy Ghost and how I can picture the Holy Ghost in a different way, and I think that brings such a different piece to it, but I love what I wrote here -- "messengers," and I circled "angels" and wrote "messengers," and I think that's, I mean, everyone around us. They're messengers helping us. And that can be the Holy Ghost.
Tammy 1:00:15
Yeah. My takeaway was Haley when you shared your story, to watch your mom be the messenger, putting in that context, and then thinking about how you said, "that shapes the way I'll live my life." And I thought it shapes the way you will mother, like you will be that mom to your daughters, and to your children. And I think I thought, "Oh, I hope I'm that." I hope that I have that type of experience where I can be as beautiful as your mom was in that moment. That was a neat moment. Thank you for sharing that.
Well, thank you. Thank you for joining us. I've loved today.
Holly 1:00:43
Thank you for having us.
Tammy 1:00:44
This has been awesome.
Haley 1:00:45
So fun.
Tammy 1:00:46
For those of you listening, I want to know what your takeaway was this week. I'd love to hear what your big takeaway was from the episode. And if you haven't already joined our discussion group on Facebook, or have followed us on Instagram, you totally should, because the cool thing is is on Sunday we'll put up a post that says, "What was your big takeaway?" And I want you to answer that. I read everybody's takeaways, and I like them, or I'll comment on them, on every single one. So please, I really want to know what you're learning.
You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on LDSLiving.com/SundayonMonday. And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway because it's where we have links to all of our references, as well as a transcript of this whole discussion. So you can just read everything we've talked about, which is fun, so check that out.
The Sunday on Monday study group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDSLiving. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our awesome study group participants were Haley Moreno and Holly Howarth. And you can find more information about these women at LDSLiving.com/SundayonMonday. Our podcast is produced by KaRyn Lay with post-production and editing by Katie Lambert. It is recorded and mixed by Mix at Six Studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.
Thanks for being here, and we'll see you guys next week. And you're God's favorite.