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18: “My Presence Shall Go with Thee” (Exodus 24; 31–34)

Fri Apr 22 17:24:53 EDT 2022
Episode 18

After reading this week’s lesson in Exodus, you may be wondering, Why did the Israelites make a golden calf? Didn’t they just see all these miracles that proved there was only one God they should worship? But in this week’s discussion of Exodus 24 and 31–34, we’ll see how the Israelites' experience relates to us and how we can remember to put God first in our lives.

Segment 1:


Leviticus20–40: Legislative Code for the Israelites

Exodus 21:24

Exodus 22:21–24

Exodus 23:10–13, 15–16

2 Nephi 25:25–27


Stranger = Someone with no kinship or tribal affiliation


After the Lord gave the Ten Commandments to the children of Israel, “He then revealed additional laws to Moses. Exodus 21-23 are the additional laws. And in fact, Exodus 20-40 contains the Legislative code by which Israel must live” (D. Kelly Ogden, Andrew C. Skinner, Verse by Verse, The Old Testament, Vol. 1, 174)

Segment 2:

Photo: The Ark of the Covenant and Mercy Seat



Exodus 24:3, 7, 18

Exodus 25:2, 3–8, 10–22

Exodus 29:45–46


Dwell: To live in or abide.

Abide: To continue without fading or being lost.



“Our temple experience includes gestures of approach, covenants, ratifying signs and tokens, verbal assents, sacrifices of heart and will at an altar, coming to understand the nature of God, and personal transformation. Each time we figuratively climb the mountain of the Lord, we, like Moses, can enter into God’s presence. We, like Moses, can experience the glory, grandeur, love, support, and mercy of our God. We, like Moses, can bow our head and worship in loving reverence and awe. This is the privilege and potential of temple worship for every endowed Latter-day Saint. As Karl G. Maeser has said, “There is a Mount Sinai for every child of God if he only knows how to climb it” (Amy B. Hardison, “Theophany on Sinai,” in Ascending the Mountain of the Lord: Temple, Praise, and Worship in the Old Testament (2013 Sperry Symposium), ed. Jeffrey R. Chadwick, Matthew J. Grey, and David Rolph Seely (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center, B).

“These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon’” (Joseph Smith—History 1, Footnote for verse 71)

Segment 3


Exodus 25:23–30 (Directions for the table of shew bread)

Exodus 25:31–40 (Menorah)

Exodus 27:20–21 (Olive Oil

Exodus 26:1–30 (The Tabernacle)

Exodus 30:1–8 (Altar of Incense)

Exodus 30:17–21 (Laver of Brass

Exodus 27:1–8 (Altar of sacrifice)

Exodus 27:9–19 (Courtyard)


Linen = Purity


Gethsemane = Oil Press

The number five = Symbolizes God’s grace and protection


“The seven-branched lampstand (menorah, or light fixture) was made of solid gold and had seven cups containing oil with wicks for burning. It thus signified wholeness or perfection, and the light it provided in the Tabernacle and later in the Temple symbolized the perfect Light, which God is. It was a type or symbol for spiritual light. Pure olive oil was to be used in the menorah. (The plan recorded in 25:31–40 was carried out in 37:17–24.) The flowerlike cups of the menorah were patterned after the almond tree, the first of the trees in the ancient Near East to blossom in spring. We know verse 40 is important because of the number of times the Lord uses the wording to remind his servants of how revelation came, according to the pattern or manner shown them (see Exodus 26:30; 11 Nephi 17:8; Ether 2:16)” (D. Kelly Ogden, Andrew C. Skinner, Verse by Verse, The Old Testament, Vol. 1, Deseret Book)

“Two days later, Wilford and Brigham supervised the first endowments for the dead performed in any temple. Wilford then spent nearly every day afterward doing temple work. He began wearing a white suit, the first time someone had worn white clothes rather than normal dress clothes as part of the temple ceremonies. Susie’s mother, Lucy, who likewise dedicated herself to temple work, wore a white dress as an example for women” (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Saints: The Story of the Church of Jesus Christ in the Latter Days: Volume 2: No Unhallowed Hand: 1846–1893).

Segment 4:

Photo: Clothing worn in the tabernacle by the priests


Articles of the Priest’s Clothing:

Breastplate: “The breastplate of judgment was made from the same materials and in the same manner as the ephod. It was made, like the ephod, out of one continuous piece of fabric. The fabric was folded in half “upward to form a sort of pouch.” [56] It was a span in length and width (about 9x9 inches), thus forming a perfect square. [57] Upon the front of the breastplate were twelve stones, arranged in four rows of three, each stone being different from the others. Every stone was engraved with the name of one of the tribes of Israel” (Alonzo L. Gaskill, “Clothed in Holy Garments: The Apparel of the Temple Officiants of Ancient Israel,” in Ascending the Mountain of the Lord: Temple, Praise, and Worship in the Old Testament (2013 Sperry Sy).

Ephod: “To date, there continues to be some debate within the scholarly community as to what exactly the ephod was. Thus the term remains untranslated in the King James Version. Most scholars maintain that it was an apron of unsurpassable beauty, having gold woven into it (see Exodus 39:3) [48] and being very colorful in its appearance. Matthew B. Brown speculates that the ephod may have been decorated with ‘figures’ or symbols. [49] Regardless, we know that it was the outermost garment upon which the onyx shoulder stones and the breast piece of judgment were fastened. It was the vestment upon which some of the most emblematic and important features of the high priest’s dress were to be secured. And it was the location in which the Urim and Thummim was stored” (Alonzo L. Gaskill, “Clothed in Holy Garments: The Apparel of the Temple Officiants of Ancient Israel,” in Ascending the Mountain of the Lord: Temple, Praise, and Worship in the Old Testament (2013 Sperry Sy).

Robe: “The Lord informed Moses that this distinctive robe was to be made “all of blue” (Exodus 28:31) [36] and that it would reach past the ephod to the knee. [37] Remarkably, the robe of the ephod was constructed out of a single sheet of material; having no seams, only a hole for the head and arms. The neck hole was reinforced to insure “that it be not rent” (Exodus 28:32). Indeed, the garment was ‘made in such a way that it was not possible for man to rend it’ [38]” (Alonzo L. Gaskill, “Clothed in Holy Garments: The Apparel of the Temple Officiants of Ancient Israel,” in Ascending the Mountain of the Lord: Temple, Praise, and Worship in the Old Testament (2013 Sperry Sy).

Broidered Coat: “Not only was this undergarment made of the finest of materials, but the making of it apparently required significant effort. Indeed, the Hebrew root word used for “embroidered” implies something akin to our modern damask [17] (i.e., a lustrous fabric made with flat patterns in a satin weave). Thus, the garment is believed to have been skillfully woven so as to have a pattern within the fabric [18]” (Alonzo L. Gaskill, “Clothed in Holy Garments: The Apparel of the Temple Officiants of Ancient Israel,” in Ascending the Mountain of the Lord: Temple, Praise, and Worship in the Old Testament (2013 Sperry Sy).

Miter or Hat: “The miter of the high priest was made of linen. It was ‘of the distinctive design worn by royalty.’ [65] Upon the front of the miter was fastened the ‘Holy Crown’ which consisted of a golden plate that bore the inscription “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” (Exodus 28:36). Additionally, the holy crown was secured to the miter with ‘a blue lace’ ribbon (Exodus 28:37)” (Alonzo L. Gaskill, “Clothed in Holy Garments: The Apparel of the Temple Officiants of Ancient Israel,” in Ascending the Mountain of the Lord: Temple, Praise, and Worship in the Old Testament (2013 Sperry Sy).

Girdle: “The Aaronic high priest donned two separate girdles as part of his holy clothing: ‘one of which was fastened over the coat [or undershirt] and was assumed by the priests generally; the other was emphatically the curious, or embroidered, ‘girdle of the ephod,’ and belonged to the robes of the High Priest alone.’ [32] Our focus here will be on the former of these—that which was common to high priest and priest alike” (Alonzo L. Gaskill, “Clothed in Holy Garments: The Apparel of the Temple Officiants of Ancient Israel,” in Ascending the Mountain of the Lord: Temple, Praise, and Worship in the Old Testament (2013 Sperry Sy).

Breeches: “While the Leviticus pericope doesn’t specifically mention it, Baruch Levine points out that “it is to be assumed that at the beginning of the robing the priests were wearing their linen breeches” [30] which reached to the knees. These breeches, or underpants, were made of linen, which is not a product of animals (which are subject to death and corruption). Thus, they become a fitting symbol of both incorruptibility and immortality [31]” (Alonzo L. Gaskill, “Clothed in Holy Garments: The Apparel of the Temple Officiants of Ancient Israel,” in Ascending the Mountain of the Lord: Temple, Praise, and Worship in the Old Testament (2013 Sperry Sy).


Exodus 28:2–43 (Clothing of Priests)

Exodus 30:22–33 (Recipe)

Exodus 29:4, 7

Exodus 31:10, 18


Blue = Power

Purple = Royalty

Red = Redemption

Gold = Divinity


Broidered = A lustrous fabric


“Eight articles of sacred clothing are mentioned in association with the high priest. The four undergarments—the linen coat, the breeches, the girdle or sash, and the headband—were worn by all Aaronic priests who worked in the tabernacle or the temple. The four outer garments—the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim, the ephod, the robe, and the miter—were worn only by the high priest. See Kaiser, “Exodus,” 2:465” (Baruch A. Levine, The JPS Torah Commentary: Leviticus (Philadelphia: The Jewish Publications Society, 1989), 50).

Segment 5:


Exodus 32:1–25


40 = A period of test or trial

Segment 6


Exodus 34: Take Two

Exodus 34: 1–2 JST
“1. Moses, Hew thee two other tables of stone, like unto the first, and I will write upon them also, the words of the law, according as they were written at the first on the tables which thou brakest; but it shall not be according to the first, for I will take away the priesthood out of their midst; therefore my holy order, and the ordinances thereof, shall not go before them; for my presence shall not go up in their midst, lest I destroy them.

“2 But I will give unto them the law as at the first, but it shall be after the law of a carnal commandment; for I have sworn in my wrath, that they shall not enter into my presence, into my rest, in the days of their pilgrimage. Therefore do as I have commanded thee, and be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me, in the top of the mount.”

Exodus 34:6–7, 10

Talk: “Your Potential, Your Privilege,” by Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf

Corrie ten Boom forgiving guard at concentration camp


“In other words, what God is about to do ‘is of such an unprecedented nature that only creation language, combined with language of marvel and awe, can adequately describe it.’ What is this act? It is the miracle of forgiveness” (Amy Blake Hardison, “Theophany on Sinai,” Ascending the Mountain of the Lord, Temple, Praise, and Worship in the Old Testament).

Tammy 0:00

It's a crying shame that we only get to cover today's material every four years. Exodus 24 and 31-34 is the one lesson that I needed the most applies for required the most help for my family and friends. And the one that I prayed would have the greatest effect on my students knowing that if God really is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, that he is also the God of them. And like the children of Israel, He has also carefully prepared a way for them to return to Him. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Desert Bookshelf Plus Original brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. And I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall.

Now if you're new to our study group, I just want to make sure you know how to use this podcast. So follow the link that's in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come Follow Me study, just like my friends Karen and Guy Schissel in North Dakota. They are friends of mine and friends of Roberta's. And so Hello, friends. Thank you for listening. We love you guys. Now, here's my favorite thing about this podcast, is each week we're joined by two of my friends. So it's always a little bit different. And today, for sure is going to be different. We've never paired these two together, but they're regulars. We have Becky Farley and Ben Schilaty. Hi,

Becky Farley 1:16


Ben Schilaty 1:17

Hello, thrilled to be here again.

Tammy 1:18

Ah, so excited to have you two on. I feel like this will be a very zen episode because we have a meditation specialist and a therapist.

Becky Farley 1:26

Oh, let's hope so.

Tammy 1:27

Can we all just breathe like, yeah.

Ben Schilaty 1:30

We just take some time to take some breaths and ponder.

Tammy 1:34

We might need them to go through everything we're covering today. In fact, we decided - we took some creative liberties. We know the Come Follow Me lesson actually says Exodus 24, 31-34. But we are actually going to cover Exodus 21-34. All of the chapters, because we kind of came to an agreement, right guys, what was our agreement?

Ben Schilaty 1:51

All the scriptures deserved to be discussed.

Tammy 1:53

Totally. Because we were like, we can't skip. We cannot skip the chapters from 21 all the way to 34. Like, no,

Becky Farley 2:01

No, there's important stuff in there. There's important stuff,

Ben Schilaty 2:05

And there's good and there's good stuff that can apply to us today. And some odd stuff too. But we don't have to apply that. (laughter)

Tammy 2:15

Well, if you want to know more about my guests, you can read their bios and see their pictures which are in our show notes. You can find those at LDS on Monday. Okay, this is it. So all I'm going to do is give you a quick disclaimer. You need your scriptures, and you are going to need so many colored pencils and markers and a pen. Like I know I've said that before, but we are going to mark the heck out of our scriptures today. So friends, grab your scriptures, grab everything we just discussed, and your journal, and let's dig in.

Okay, here we go. So do either one of you have a favorite celebratory feast? Any type of event in your life where you just know you're going to feast?

Ben Schilaty 2:54

Of course I do. I love the Fourth of July. I love Fourth of July food.

Tammy 2:59

Tell us about it.

Ben Schilaty 2:59

So I love I love burgers. I love beans. I love cold sodas, and I love sitting outside in the warm air and then watching fireworks. It's the best.

Tammy 3:10

Ooo, yum. Farley, you got one?

Becky Farley 3:13

Oh, gosh, well, you know me; I take any chance I can get to feast. I just love a feast. I love a fun feast. But like I think with the feast, I mean, there's a feast and then there's like eating a ton. You know, I think I would like to say that a feast is more taking conscious mindful thought to what you're eating and why you're eating it. So I know at Christmastime we eat a lot of Swedish food. And you know, there's a reason for that; we have Swedish heritage in our family and, you know, just bringing your mindfulness. So I'd like to think that that's what a feast entails, as opposed to just like going out and snarfin' and then feedin' your face, you know? I don't know.

Tammy 4:00

I like that, Becky. Like there's, it's mindful, it's meaningful with what you're eating. I'm so grateful that you brought that up because there is some significance to that in the book of Exodus. So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna look at Exodus chapters 21-23. After the Lord gave the 10 Commandments to the children of Israel, He then revealed additional laws to Moses. Exodus chapters 21-23 are these additional laws and in fact, Exodus 20-40, like that's a lot of chapters. Exodus 20 through 40 contains the legislative code by which Israel must live. That's just so much to take right there.

But we're just going to look at 21-23. And the reason why I asked you for feasts, is because I want to show you something that the Lord made sure the children Israel knew they had to do. Turn with me to Exodus chapter 23, verse 15 and 16. I really like this. Of all the laws, of all the things they're supposed to do the Lord says, Oh, by the way, there are three feasts that you must keep, you have to perform these. And so if we look at verses 15 and 16, the first one is the Feast of Unleavened Bread which accompanies the Passover. In verse 16, we have the Feast of Harvest - the first fruits of thy labors. That's called SHAVUOT, and it's also known as the Feast of Weeks.

And then the last one in here is when they at the end, when they gather the laborers of the field, or the Feast of the End Gathering is what it's called in verse 16. That is the Feast of Booths or SUKKOT. And I just think it's neat, because it goes back to what you said, Becky, like there were feasts that the Lord wanted the children of Israel to participate in as a remembrance of all the things that they had gone through. And we won't spend a lot of time on that. I just want to make sure we mark it, because we'll do a lot more with it in the next couple of weeks. But I like that he wants us to feast and to remember.

Becky Farley 5:49

yeah, yeah. So Ben, you better eat your hamburger, Fourth of July, and your hot dog.

Ben Schilaty 5:54

I will do it because God is commanding it. And I know, I know something: just now looking at this verse, Tammy, this is in the King James Version. Verse 15 ends with a colon and then a parenthesis, so it looks like a smiley face.

Tammy 6:06

Oh. It totally does!

Ben Schilaty 6:08

God says keep these feasts. And then here's a smiley face emoji.

Becky Farley 6:12

"And none shall appear before me empty."

Tammy 6:16

That is the greatest thing.

Becky Farley 6:17

You're just gonna munch on that cheeseburger with all your might! (laughter)

Tammy 6:22

Smiley faced. Oh, that's great, Ben! So great. So I asked our guests before they came to read over Exodus 21-23, which contains the additional laws that the children of Israel are to keep after getting the 10 Commandments, and I want to know what did you guys mark? The additional laws that I chose were the feasts. So what stood out to you guys?

Becky Farley 6:44

This is the one that really stood out to me. It's in 22, verses 21-24. And it says,

22:21 "Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

22 "Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.

23 "If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry;

24 "And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless."

I mean, that's a big deal. But I love that 21: "Don't Vex a stranger". Like, take a second, walk in their shoes, and look at them. And you know, and then I just love that "if thou shalt afflict them in any wise and they cry it all unto me, I will surely hear their cry."

Ben Schilaty 7:39

That's one of the verses that I had, I want to talk about as well, because I just love this idea that you know, a stranger or someone who comes into our land from somewhere else. We have all been that, like, we've all been the person who didn't fit in, who was a foreigner and a stranger. And so we need to be treating people as we would want to be treated. And this was talked about in Conference. I forget which speaker said it, but they were talking about the people who are taking Ukrainian refugees at the train stations. And just like that, those beautiful signs of, you know, someone says, like, "I've got two bedrooms". They're holding up a sign in Ukraine, like, "I've got two bedrooms", or "I've got this..." Like, like you, you belong in my land, and in my home.

And you know, of course, there are people who are literal strangers in lands and foreigners, but in all of our spheres of influence, they're people who feel like they don't belong. And since we've all felt like we don't belong, you know, it's our job to make sure that everyone feels like they belong, we don't vex them.

Becky Farley 8:36

I mean, the one I'm thinking of the most is our wards, in our wards, you know? I mean, who are we sitting by? Who are we talking to? You know,

Tammy 8:46

One of the things that I like about this that you both brought it up is that word 'stranger'. Because the word stranger in Hebrew, the context for this word, it means 'someone with no kinship or tribal affiliation'. Like they don't belong to you or yours. And what you both said is just so appropriate. I mean, we have all been that where we didn't feel like we were part of anybody's tribal affiliation, or we were looking for some kind of kinship with somebody. Everyone's looking for kinship in this world. What else do you guys have? Ben.

Ben Schilaty 9:17

So I highlighted some verses in chapter 23, verses 10 and 11. And it says,

23:10 "and six years thou shalt sow thy land, and shalt gather in the fruits thereof:

11 "But the seventh year thou shalt let it rest and lie still; that the poor of thy people may eat: and what they leave the beasts of the field shall eat. In like manner, thou shalt deal with thy vineyard, and with thy olive yard."

I love this idea that you've got this possession, and you're it's only yours for six years, and on the 7th year it's supposed to be something that really isn't yours. You're supposed to lend out to the beasts of the field and to the poor. And I just love that the Lord has commanded them, you know, Let the earth rest; take care of the beasts of the field; take care of the poor and trust that you know, that 7th year will be taken care of.

Tammy 10:01

Well, I'm having this cool moment right now, Ben, because those specific verses that you chose, verses 10-13, are actually titled "The Sabbatical Year". And as a scholar, like, what is a sabbatical?

Ben Schilaty 10:13

It's when you take time off and don't teach and you leave the university.

Tammy 10:17

Isn't that cool that this is where it comes from. And the Lord's setting it up to do something for other people and to do kindness. But that's where we get this wording: the sabbatical year, every seven years you take time off. So, I wish we could have that back.

Ben Schilaty 10:29

Right? Take a year off of work.

Tammy 10:32

Yeah, take a year off my life and go serve. I'd love to do that! That was a great one, Ben, thank you. Well, and then we have to mark this because everybody needs to know, because when we talk about the law of Moses, we immediately go to "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth". That is found in Exodus chapter 21, verse 24, so you can just go ahead and mark it, this is where it's found. And now you have some context for it. And then that's the whole law of Moses right there. So we've just got this great context now. The Lord's giving these additional laws, other things that He wants them to know and understand.

Ben Schilaty 11:04

Yeah, you know, reading about these laws, I've been thinking about a second Nephi, chapter 25, verses 25-27 where Nephi talks about how they kept the law, and it pointed them to Christ. And so as I was reading these laws, I thought, how can these things point me to Christ? Like having taken care of my ox, point me to Christ, you know? Having kept these feasts point me to Christ? How can taking care of the stranger point me to Christ? And I just love that Nephi made that point in 2 Nephi:25. Like we look at the laws that can point us to Christ.

Tammy 11:32

Oh, Ben, thank you for pointing that out and bringing that up. In fact, I'm going to write that to the outside right now. In the next segment then, we're going to look at how more things that the Lord asked the children of Israel to do are going to point them to Christ. That's almost the theme for our whole episode today, is everything they're being asked to do points them to Christ. So we'll look at that in the next segment.

Segment 2 11:51


Tammy 11:57

Okay, now I want your human reaction from this. So if you're the children of Israel, and you just receive these new laws and feasts to keep in addition to the 10 Commandments, how are you going to respond? Like, for reals?

Ben Schilaty 12:09

Yikes, this is a lot.

Tammy 12:12

Oh, yeah. What's the human response?

Ben Schilaty 12:14

Yeah, like, "really. All this?" (laughter)

Becky Farley 12:18

I'm out. I can't, I can't remember them all. But like, this is worse than the white handbook out on my mission. You know, I can't remember all this,

Tammy 12:27

I'd be looking around, like, did someone write this down? I'm not going to be able to remember this, because that's the natural reaction. And I think that that would be fair to say that that's probably how the children of Israel might have reacted. I mean, we've seen their behavior up to this point. And so here they're getting all of these things that they have to do. Let's go into Exodus chapter 24, and we're going to look at what their reaction was when they heard everything that they had to do. Exodus chapter 24. And I want you to look for the common answer in verse 3 and in verse 7. So look at both of those verses, they both have the same response. What did the children of Israel say after they got all these rules?

Ben Schilaty 13:05

They're gonna do it.

Tammy 13:06

Yeah, read that line for us, Ben.

Ben Schilaty 13:08

It says: 24:3 "......and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the Lord hath said will we do."

Tammy 13:16

Very good. And then down in verse 7, we'll be obedient. Like I love how they add that we'll do it and we'll be obedient. Wow, Don't you just love that? What does that tell us about the children of Israel now?

Becky Farley 13:25

Well, I feel like it's when King Benjamin was giving his sermon. And everybody at the ends says, they all say we're in; we're 100% in. I mean, the spirit must have been really strong at this point, which I just came to this thought that in the Old Testament I don't really think about the spirit being so strong like I do in the Book of Mormon. But at this point, when Moses is talking to the children of Israel, it must have been so strong, they must have been like, yes, we are there, we can see it. We know that God is our God, and that He's going to deliver us and that it's going to all be for our good.

Tammy 14:11

That's a great connection, Becky, because they had just heard the Lord's voice give them the 10 Commandments. They had just seen an incredible experience back in Exodus chapter 19. I mean, they definitely knew what they were experiencing and it was, the spirit was so strong. They also were terrified; they also thought that they were going to die because the mountain was on fire, and they were a little bit scared. They're like, Moses, you go be our spokesman. And when Moses came back and told them everything, they're like, Okay, we'll do it. We're all in, right? Have either one of you ever been that all in though? Have either one of you had a moment, where you're like, Yes, I will be totally obedient.

Ben Schilaty 14:44

Yeah, definitely.

Tammy 14:46

What was that like? Can you share it?

Ben Schilaty 14:48

I remember the first time I felt this. I attended my first Youth Conference when I was 14. We ended with a testimony meeting, and I didn't share my testimony, but I saw a lot of my peers share their testimonies of the Savior and the restoration. I just like felt this warm blanket wrapped around me. I just felt the presence of God. And we're walking out of that building and thinking, How can I go back to playing video games? Like, how can I go back to watching? Like, I felt this divine love. Like, how can I do these mundane things that I do all the time now that I know what really matters. And of course, I went back to my normal life. But just that, just that sense of there's something real and powerful, and someone who loves me and I can be a better person.

Tammy 15:31

Wow. That's a great story, Ben. That was so good. Becky, do you have one that stands out?

Becky Farley 15:37

Oh, I can think of so many. And they all include fear. At the beginning, just being so scared about something and then making it through. I mean, times on my mission, for sure. And then giving birth and children, raising children and, and just being so scared about not knowing what I'm doing or even with work. Times when I have had to give a talk or, you know, a lesson or whatever and standing up there and everything completely leaving my head. And then somehow God enters into my head and puts the words into my mouth. And then being done and saying I, I'm never, I'm never going to doubt again.

And then of course, I go back to my doubt, my 'video game', you know, my real life, whatever it is, and I come back. And I just think that's such the theme of the Old Testament: that going off to my other things, and then God's arm outstretched still to me saying, It's okay, I'm right here. Remember, I'm right here. Remember, here I am.

Tammy 16:52

And I think what you're saying, and Ben, the story you shared is so real for the children of Israel. And I think that's what makes God so awesome is because He knew they're feeling the spirit. They're all in, they're going to be obedient. And then He also knows, and you're human. And you're probably going to forget this moment, and you're gonna go back to your video games. So guess what I'm going to do for you guys. I'm going to create a way for you to remember me on a daily basis. There's just absolute guarantee you can think of me. And it goes back to that scripture that you shared, Ben: it will point you to Me every single day if you'll do these things.

And so the Lord's like, I'm going to give them the priesthood. Like, I'm going to give them a temple, I'm going to give them the higher law. And we talked about this last time when we covered Exodus 19, we talked about how the Lord said, I want you to be a kingdom of priests and priestesses, meaning I already think you're going to make it, you will be my next city of Enoch. Let's do this. And then the children Israel got scared and they couldn't. So He's like, alright, well, let's give you at least a tabernacle. And so this is where it starts.

Let's go into Exodus chapter 25. In fact, if you look up above - verse 18 in Exodus chapter 24 - the Lord calls Moses back up to Mount Sinai. This goes back to my 'sweaty Sunday', I think we should all be able to wear sweats at least once every quarter in memory of Moses every time he had to walk up to Mount Sinai. And we'll call it 'sweaty Sunday'.

Ben Schilaty 18:15

He had very strong calves, I'm sure by the end.

Tammy 18:17

Honestly! He peeled that mountain at least seven times, you guys. And he was well into his 80s. I mean, he's almost 100; this is crazy to me.

Becky Farley 18:26

He was in good shape.

Tammy 18:26

So here he goes, verse 18. He goes back up to the mount, he's there for 40 days and 40 nights. And the Lord is going to speak to him. In Exodus chapter 25, verse 2 is beautiful.

18:2 "Speak unto the children of Israel, that they may bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering."

So he's talking about this willingness with your heart. And then He asks for things in verses 3-7: their fine linen, their jewelry, their brass, their gold, their silver. He's like, Okay, remember all that stuff I asked you to get from the Egyptians before you crossed the Red Sea? I need that now. We're going to use that. It's coming up so make sure you gather all of that together, because here's what we're going to do. And let's read verse 8. Becky, will you read Exodus chapter 25, verse 8.

Becky Farley 19:09

25:8 "And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them."

Tammy 19:14

What's the point and purpose of the tabernacle?

Becky Farley 19:17

A place that we can go to, and God will be in us. And I actually looked up, like, what "dwell" meant.

Tammy 19:26

Ooh, tell us.

Becky Farley 19:27

And it means 'to live in or to abide'. And then I thought, okay, abide. Abide with me, 'tis eventide. Abide means to continue without fading or being lost. And I just love that and it's in reference to a feeling or a memory. And I thought when you sing that song, "Abide With Me", you know, in the deepest sadness of your heart, you want to remember. You don't want God to fade, you want that to be the first thing in your head. You want His love, His taking you across the Red Sea, His saving you to be the first thing.

So abiding, going to the temple, and dwelling within you. And nowhere have I felt this more than when I couldn't go, you know, during COVID when we couldn't go to the temple. And for some reason, that's when I remembered the covenants the very most. I mean, I would have the temple ceremonies come in my mind at night or when I was, you know, worried about whatever, that will come to my head. And I felt like I, God was abiding with me at that point or dwelling in me at that point.

Ben Schilaty 20:45

Thank you for sharing that, Becky. I think that's really beautiful. And as I review these words, the Lord's saying, That I may dwell among them.' And I guess I would, I would have pictured the Lord saying, 'I'm gonna put the sanctuary there so people can come unto Me. But He's saying, 'I want to be with you.' And what I love about the temple is where we go where we reach out to God, and God reaches back out to us. It's just this place of joining, and meeting. And you know, and Becky, I love that even when you couldn't physically go to the temple, the promises and the teachings and the doctrines there were still present with you.

Tammy 21:20

Thank you, both of you for what you shared. There is such an incredible connection to what you said when we go into Exodus chapter 25, because look what the very first item is that the Lord wants the children of Israel to make for the tabernacle. Now, this is where you're gonna need your colored pencils and your markers and everything. Bracket off verses 10-22. And we're going to do this throughout the whole episode with all of the items in the tabernacle. But verses 10-22 are the directions for the Ark of the Covenant. It's like a box. And on top of the box are two angels whose wings come up and meet, these cherubim. And it's supposed to create a seat, but it's called the 'mercy seat'. Let's read about that mercy seat. Ben, will you read in Exodus chapter 25, verses 21 and 22.

Ben Schilaty 22:05

You got it.

25:21 "And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.

22 "And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give the commandment unto the children of Israel."

Tammy 22:26

Wow, what will He do at the mercy seat?

Ben Schilaty 22:29

Going to meet the people there.

Tammy 22:30

It's just so cool, going back to that. He'll abide with us, to everyone who's lost, right? I am so grateful you taught us the meaning of that word, Becky.

Becky Farley 22:39

You know, I teach self-compassion. And through self-compassion, you reparent, you help teach yourself how to deal with the hard stuff in your life. And so I'm just thinking about sitting in this mercy seat of the Lord. And how He parents me, He cares. I love that word 'communes'. So it's not only just neediness, it's community, it's talking to us. It's, you know, giving us the advice and the things that we can do to help make our life be more more easy. The, you know, not be so difficult. But what about the cherubims? Huh? I've always wondered about cherubims. Can you tell us about what a cheribum is, Tam?

Tammy 23:24

Well, there's a lot of debate. Ben, do you have anything on it?

Ben Schilaty 23:28

I just thought they were angels.

Tammy 23:30

Yeah. They're like angels. And the wings are really fascinating. And there's a lot of scriptural content about wings, specifically in Doctrine and Covenants. The wings are the ability to come and move back and forth. Isaiah also uses these angels with wings. And it's the ability to do what God needs you to do and what God wants them to do. So, yeah.

Becky Farley 23:48

So cherubims are like real beings. I mean, I don't, I don't know. I just see 'em as like cartoon characters for some reason in my head.

Tammy 23:56

Yeah, chubby little angels. Yeah.

Becky Farley 23:59

Yeah. But cherubims are, are like

Tammy 24:02

angels of God

Becky Farley 24:02

real angels that are there supporting us and helping us

Tammy 24:07

to do God's work. Yeah.

Becky Farley 24:09

And on either side of the mercy seat.

Tammy 24:11

Yep, on both sides, and we have pictures of a lot of things we're going to talk about today. So go check out the show notes. But this is what it would have looked like. The high priest would have entered the Holy of Holies, only one day of the year, which was on the Day of Atonement. And we're gonna talk about that next week. That's the day where he'll go in and plead for forgiveness for all children of Israel. And that's the only day of the year that he's allowed to speak the Lord's sacred name. And he'll do that in the Holy of Holies at the mercy seat where the Lord will commune with them and dwell with the people.

There's just so much beauty in this and so it wasn't lost on me that right out of the gates, of all the things he could have said to build. He's like, 'Let's start with the best thing of all: The one thing that I'm going to come and commune - and I think it's cool how you brought up that word - commune, dwell. I will be with you.' Oh, and how cool, 'I will meet. I will meet you there' is what it says in verse 22. So in fact, Becky, will you read this quote for us? It's a great quote about our temple experience and God.

Becky Farley 25:10

"Our Temple experience includes gestures of approach, covenants, ratifying signs and tokens. Verbal ascents, sacrifices of heart and will at an altar, coming to understand the nature of God, and personal transformation. Each time we figuratively climb the mountain of the Lord, we, like Moses can enter into God's presence. We, like Moses can experience the glory, grandeur, love, support and mercy of our God. We, like Moses can bow our head and worship in loving reverence and awe. This is the privilege and potential of Temple worship for every endowed Latter-Day Saint. As Karl G. Maeser has said, 'There is a Mount Sinai for every child of God, if He only knows how to climb it.'"

Tammy 25:10

Thank you. It is so awesome. And let's cross reference this quote we just read, to Exodus chapter 29, verses 45 and 46, where the Lord reiterates again the purpose of the temple. I like this so much:

29:45 "And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.

46 "And they shall know that I am the LORD their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am the LORD their God."

And I just want to know from both of you, has there been a time in your life where you felt like the Lord was dwelling with you, when you attended the temple, or in your life?

Ben Schilaty 26:35

A few years ago, I was a temple worker in the Provo, Utah temple. And I was on the Tuesday night shift, which is super busy. And so sometimes there wasn't anything to do, we would just kind of sit around and in most places there are scriptures you can read. And so it was a lovely time to think and ponder. But one time I was working in Initiatories and there were no patrons. So I was just sitting there in this really bland, nondescript room that was tiny, and there were no scriptures. I'm just sitting there. And in my mind, I thought, I just wish time would go faster so I could go home and get back to my life.

And then it occurred to me: I don't know if this was the spirit or just my brain. But I just felt like, I'm in the Lord's house right now. Like, how special is that? And so I thought, Well, I'm really going to try and commune with God and I just, I just prayed and tried to feel God's presence. It was a really remarkably spiritual experience. I went from feeling bored to feeling the presence of God. And there's a line that Oliver Cowdery says when he talks about the translation of the Book of Mormon. And he says, "These were days never to be forgotten." And I walked out of the temple thinking, I don't want to forget that moment where I decided that I was going to, I wanted to feel God's presence, and then I did.

Tammy 27:40

It's a great story, Ben, thank you for sharing that. I think we often feel that way in the temple. And I love how you took that, and that opportunity took you, really. That's so cool. What about you Beck?

Becky Farley 27:52

Well, the time that came to my mind was when one of my kids was really struggling with a pretty deep issue. And I went to the temple fasting, and knowing that I had to have specific direction. You know, I'd wandered in that wilderness, how to help her and what to do and, and knowing that God had to give me specific instruction, and just really specific instruction: You need to say this, you need to call this person, you need to talk, and you need to ask this question. Really specific things. And for whatever reason, I was able to remember all of the instructions, I didn't have to write it down.

But I got out and I'll be danged: everything lined up. And I knew that God was a God of marvels and miracles at that point, because I could have never come up with that instruction of how and who to talk to and what to say and what questions to ask. That was a time that I knew that He was abiding with me and with my child.

Tammy 29:08

Thank you. Thank you, both of you. Those are perfect stories. And it's real. And people wonder, like, really does He dwell? You bet He dells? You bet He abides. That was brilliant. Thank you, both of you. Such a cool discussion. Okay. So here's what to do. In the next segment, grab your scriptures, grab your pencils and your pens, we are going to mark up Exodus 26-27 all of the parts of the tabernacle.

Segment 3 29:32


Tammy 29:33

Alright, here we go. Let's go together. We're going to be in Exodus chapter 25. And we're just going to mark and label all the parts that were in the tabernacle. And this is so important to know. Now, why did I start out by saying this was one of my favorite lessons and the one that I hated that we only could do every 4 years? Because I built a tabernacle in my classroom every time I got to teach this. I'd make my family come; so many sheets were involved. I hung sheets from the ceiling. I made it life-sized so that my kids could walk in. I made 'em take their shoes off and I had all the pieces. Because now listen

Ben Schilaty 30:05

Tammy, you're invested,

Tammy 30:06

I was so invested as a seminary teacher; well I was single, I didn't have kids, so. I allowed all the teachers to use it. But I wanted 'em to like really experience what was going on here and that it really was the Lord like dwelling with them and that that's why we have temples today. And so it's just fun to see what all of this stuff is. And so we're going to label all of these items, and kind of make some connections about why the Lord would want them to remember this. So here we go.

The first thing we have bracket off in Exodus chapter 25, verses 23-30, okay? And 23-30, you're going to put "Directions for the table of shewbread". So there was a table and it would have bread cakes that would be stacked. And it was really kind of cool, because it's the body of Christ. And the bread would symbolize the literal presence of God on the earth. And so there would be two fresh loaves of bread placed on it each week. And it was left as a thank offering for the Lord. Isn't that pretty cool? Again, Ben going to what you said: pointing them to Christ, and they don't, you know, I wonder, do they know that?

Ben Schilaty 31:07

You know, I feel like it's kind of like with the Sacraments, you know, this bread could just be bread, or it's bread that could point us to Christ and His presence on the earth.

Tammy 31:16

You're exactly right. That's what it's it is, it's the Sacrament. Awesome. Okay, the next thing we have is in Exodus 25. Bracket off verses 31-40. This is called "The Candlestick" or "The Menorah". Now, this was made of solid gold, it was at least five feet tall. So it's a big menorah. It's not a little tiny candlestick that you put in your home. Tall, so tall. And there would be seven cups filled with olive oil, and it had to be lit and continually burned throughout the night. What could that symbolize, any ideas?

Becky Farley 31:49

I think it's the Holy Ghost.

Tammy 31:51

You're totally right, and the spiritual light that we get, and that represents the light of Christ. All of those answers are totally right. I think it's really cool and symbolizing how perfect light is, which is God. Ben, you got anything?

Ben Schilaty 32:05

You know, I'm just thinking about the fact that it was olive oil that was being burned, and how how Christ performed the atonement in the Garden of Gethsemane. And that's where he he suffered, and in this olive grove and, and I haven't put all the pieces together, but it's beautiful that you know, the same place that Christ atoned for our sins. You know, that same symbol is what gives light in the tabernacle and gives light to us in our lives, too.

Tammy 32:32

And you didn't even know we were doing that. Let's go to the verses that talk about the olive oil. It's in Exodus chapter 27. Go to verses 20 and 21; bracket those off and put "Olive oil". And you're absolutely right that that is the point of Gethsemane. And this is so cool, because Gethsemane in Hebrew is two different words: it's GAT SHEMANIM. And that word means 'oil press'. And so the literal place He went was where they would get olives, and they would press them and we'd get that olive oil. So Ben, you're 100% right. Awesome, so good.

Ben Schilaty 33:06

You know what, I hate olives. I do not eat them. But I love Olive oil.

Tammy 33:10

There you go. I'm the Primary song leader. And so we're teaching our kids the song "Gethsemane". So I set a table out with green olives all over the table, and I let the kids try them. And it was so fun because they hated 'em. (laughter) But guess what every kid remembers when I say, What's Gethsemane? They all know all: olives And it was an olive orchard that He was in. I'm like, My job here is done. Thank you, and good night. It's so fun.

Okay, let's go into the next thing. Here we go. Okay, let's go to Exodus chapter 26, bracket off verses 1-30. And write in big letters, "The tabernacle". These are the perimeters of the tabernacle, and the rules for what the tabernacle should look like and be made of. You will notice several times the number 5. Now that's our Hebrew word for the week. The number of 5 is so significant because it is used throughout the tabernacle in the way that it's built and in its structure. And why we love the number 5 is because in Hebrew, the number five is a symbol for God's grace and His protection. So how cool then, that this tabernacle, this tent, His tent - and we've talked about this - he's the Divine Kinsman. The Tabernacle is His tent that He's letting us come into, and He will protect us. And look what it has to be made of. Go to verse 1.

26: 1 "Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with 10 curtains of fine twined linen,...." Highlight that, "linen". Isn't that interesting? Like you'd think it would be maybe like a tarp, it's waterproof. But no, it's linen, and linen is a symbol of purity. Anytime you see 'linen' in Scripture, remember that it's a symbol of purity. And then I want you to highlight - and if you have a blue and a purple and a red pencil, highlight the colors blue, purple, and scarlet. You're going to see that often throughout the tabernacle and the clothing. Notice that now I'm going to tell you the symbolism of the colors when we get to the clothing a little bit later. But it's incredible. Those are the three colors that are allowed in the tabernacle. So that's really cool.

Ben Schilaty 35:06

So I was reading "Saints, Volume Two" recently, and it was talking about the dedication of the St. George Temple. And for the first time in the St. George Temple - I believe it was Wilford Woodruff -started wearing a white suit. And the temple matron also wear, started wearing a white dress. That was the first time they started wearing white in the temple. And it occurred to me, you know, for a few decades, so in temple ordinances, whether in Nauvoo or in the Endowment House, or, you know, at the top of the mountain, they weren't wearing white, but then they started wearing white as a symbol just like this linen, of purity.

Tammy 35:37

Oh, that's really cool, Ben. I didn't know that; thank you for sharing that. Well, and we talked about how we have this linen. So how do they protect it? Go down to verse 7. "Thou shalt make curtains of goats hair." So that's what the tents were made of, were goats hair. And I thought this was kind of neat that when goats hair would get wet, it immediately becomes impermeable. And so that's why the outside of the tabernacle will be made of this goat's hair material that the women would weave. And women are the weavers. The women are doing this work, which we'll get to next week, but it's so amazing.

Okay, the next thing we have - turn the page, let's go to Exodus chapter 30, verses 1-8. And here's the next item that we're going to mark, we're going to skip around a little bit, so stick with us. Exodus, chapter 30, verses 1-8. This is the altar of incense. Now, this is kind of cool. It is actual incense, like you imagine, and it's smoke going up into the air. And it's beautiful, because the symbolism of that is prayer, and it's prayers ascending up into heaven, and that the Lord is receiving our prayer.

While we're in Exodus 30, bracket off verses 17-21. This is the Laver of brass. Now this was on the outside of the tabernacle, as you approach and you came in to where the whole courtyard was, you would see this laver of brass. So mark that, you'll want to know about that.

Becky Farley 36:51

What does laver mean?

Tammy 36:53

Ah, it's like a big old gigantic bowl that the priests would wash themselves in before they were able to enter into the tabernacle.

Okay, let's go to another thing, then, we go back to Exodus chapter 27. And we're going to bracket off verses 1-8. And we're going to write The Altar of Sacrifice. And this is where you would bring your animal and it would be cut into different parts, and it would be burned on this altar of sacrifice. We'll get to that later. Okay, then we have Exodus chapter 27, bracket off verses 9-19. This is the courtyard and the dimensions of the courtyard, and how long and how big it was going to be.

So this is the tabernacle, all the things that they had to have in the tabernacle. I want to know, knowing this about Moses, his temple, how does this affect the way that you view our temple today and our experience going to the temple as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints?

Ben Schilaty 37:45

Yeah, what I love about this, as we've been talking about these different things and what they what they symbolize, we have symbols in the temple today. Like when we go, even the dimensions of the temple and the look of the temple and the altars in the temple are things that can teach us and point us to Christ. And so I want to do this the next time I attend the temple, just be really mindful - to use the word that Becky loves - just to be really mindful of the things I see, and how they point me to Christ. In a lot of Celestial rooms there's like a huge fake floral design on a table. And I think next time I'm in there, I want to think how is this going to point me to Christ?

Tammy 38:22

Oh, I think that's a great goal. That is a great challenge, Ben, to go to the temple and find how everything. You know what? Even, I mean Hugh Nibley points this out in "Temples and Cosmos". But the symbol, if you look in every temple, squares and circles. They're everywhere. And there's some deep symbolism in a square and a circle; never triangles, it's so amazing. Ben, that's a great challenge. I take that challenge.

Becky Farley 38:47

Oh, I just think that all of these things, how much He is, is giving instruction to this shows how much He loves us. And every time when I go to the temple, and I put the clothing on, and I listen, and I hear, and it is so specific to His guidance and His love. And just knowing that He's going to give me that specific of direction for my own life if I'm willing to wait in the wilderness. And sometimes it takes a long time, you know, for 40 years. That if I can just wait, the Lord's gonna give me specific instructions.

Ben Schilaty 39:34

Becky, as you were talking, the thought I had was, you know, the tabernacle was beautiful and wonderful. And they build an even more beautiful and more wonderful temple, you know, later down the road. And yet they were still able to connect with God with this with this structure that was temporary and movable. And just reminded me I just had this thought as you were talking that in our lives, we don't, we that might not be able to offer, you know, a beautiful Solomon's Temple.

But if we can offer a tabernacle, we can still come into the presence of God and experience His presence and commune with Him. And you know, wherever we're at with, we're in a wilderness or if we're in a beautiful fortified city, you know, wherever we are in our lives metaphorically, we can we can have God dwell in our midst.

Becky Farley 40:18

I love that.

Tammy 40:20

I do, too. I love that connection, because as you were talking about that, I was thinking, I wonder where this connection will go. And it just struck me, Ben. Like I felt the Spirit when you said that no matter, and I'm grateful you brought up the word wilderness, both of you. No matter where we are in our wilderness the Lord can always dwell with us. And I think that that is true. I mean we saw that, we just we always go back to this reference. But even after Cain killed his brother, the Lord still spoke to him. Beautiful. Wow, thank you both of you so much. Okay, so in the next segment, we're going to talk about another aspect of the tabernacle, which included clothing and a recipe.

Segment 4 40:56


Tammy 41:04

All right, you two. I have a fashion question for you. You ready for this?

Becky Farley 41:07

I don't know.

Ben Schilaty 41:08

I'm always ready.

Tammy 41:11

I knew Ben would be and I knew you would be nervous.

Becky Farley 41:15

Ben's in a nice tie. He looks amazing. I'm in a crappy t-shirt.

Tammy 41:21

Okay, here's my fashion question. Does what you wear have an effect on how you behave or feel about yourself?

Ben Schilaty 41:28

100% it does.

Tammy 41:30

Ooo, talk to me about that.

Ben Schilaty 41:31

So for one thing, if you're wearing the same thing as everyone else, you fit in. There's this feeling of like, okay, I belong. I think it can also give you confidence. Like if you are wearing something he was like, look good, like, Oh, man. Yeah, I can do whatever I need to do today.

Tammy 41:45

I just have to say at the very beginning, we told Ben he could take his tie off and relax. And he's like, No, I look good in a tie. (Laughter!) He's like, he does look good in a tie.

Ben Schilaty 41:56

I mean, it sounds terrible, but I look amazing.

Yeah, you do.

Tammy 42:01

Okay. That is such a great answer.

Becky Farley 42:02

I probably could say that about heels, Ben. But you don't see me wearing 'em.

Tammy 42:06

Yeah, I'm like, what are you talking about, Becky? You mean your nice flats? Becky likes a sensible shoe.

Becky Farley 42:13

Yes, I do.

Tammy 42:14

Okay, that was such a fun discussion. Well, the reason that I asked that question is because I absolutely love how Exodus describes the feeling and purpose behind the clothing that were to be worn in the tabernacle by the High Priests. Turn with me to Exodus chapter 28, verse 2. And Becky, will you read verse 2 for us, please.

Becky Farley 42:34

28:2 "And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty."

Tammy 42:40

Okay, and now cross reference that to verse 40. Turn the page and Ben, will you read verse 40 for us.

Ben Schilaty 42:48

28:40 "And for Aaron's sons thou shalt make coats, and thou shalt make for them girdles, and bonnets shalt thou make for them, for glory and for beauty."

Tammy 42:56

There it is, again. Now, if you're wearing your temple clothing, have you ever felt connected to the words 'glory' and 'beauty' in temple clothing?

Becky Farley 43:04


Ben Schilaty 43:04


Tammy 43:04

What's different about temple clothing versus regular clothing, because we just talked about how what you wear can make you feel good about yourself?

Becky Farley 43:11

I think it's that saying, just taking your attention to what you're putting on and why you're wearing it. I mean, it's so easy to just throw on your shirt and throw on your pants and put on your socks. But when you're in the temple, you are really thinking about what you're putting on: what color it is, why you're wearing it, that you're in a place that you're, you know, how you're serving other people. And you're putting this clothing on for a purpose.

Tammy 43:45

Well and it made me think of when Ben said when everyone's wearing the same thing, how you belong to that group. And when I'm in the temple, and we're all wearing the same thing, there is a sense of belonging, of who I belong to. And so I think that it just goes all those different ways you can think about it. So the cool thing in this section in Exodus chapter 28, I felt like we would be remiss not to talk about the temple clothing, because there's so much symbolism in it in the Old Testament, and then in our own lives as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

And for those of you who are not of our faith, or for those of you who have not yet been endowed, this is a really great point to know why we were what we were when we're in the temple. We put on specific clothing, and it's rooted in these verses. So let's go to Exodus chapter 28. And we're going to look at verse 4, and we are going to mark all of the parts of clothing that the priest was to wear in the tabernacle. Becky, will you please read for us Exodus chapter 28, verses 4 and 5.

Becky Farley 44:45

28:4 "And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, a broidered coat, and a miter, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

5 "And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen."

Tammy 45:11

Thank you. Okay, so let's talk about each one of those items that are listed in verse 4. And there's a really great picture in our show notes if you want to see what it looked like. Okay, so the first thing that we have in there is a breastplate. And I automatically when I hear breastplate, I think of hard metal, right? Something that is being worn in a war. But that is not what the breastplate is here. So the breastplate was made of one continuous piece of fabric that was folded up to create sort of like a pouch. And on that pouch they would have 12 stones, each stone representing one of the tribes of Israel. And the priest would wear that. And so there's some really cool things about this.

And you can read all of this in our show notes, because we don't have time to go over everything. But this is also the place where the Urim and Thummim would be placed, and that, where the priests could receive revelation for God's children on behalf of covenant Israel. I thought that was really neat.

The next article of clothing in the verse is called an ephod. Now, there is some debate exactly about what this means. But many scholars agree that it was actually one really long apron of unsurpassable beauty that would go over your shoulders, and you guys can see it in this picture. Do you see all the different colors woven in there? We've got this gold color, blue, purple, scarlet. Now we talked about those colors, they're super significant. Here's what you want to do, you want to mark that every time you see blue, purple, scarlet throughout the scriptures, because they are symbolic. Oh, they're super-duper symbolic. And what it means is - and I thought this was really cool - blue is a symbol of power, purple is a symbol of royalty, and red is a symbol of redemption.

So power, royalty and redemption. And remember, when the priest is wearing these clothing, it's not because he is powerful, and royal, and redeeming. It's because he's representing us. Every time he would put this outfit on, he would go into the Holy of Holies where he would speak with the Lord and ask for forgiveness for the people. So it was representing us who needed power, who were royal, because we're God's children, and we needed His redemption; we needed the Savior, Jesus Christ. And whenever you see the color red in Scripture it is symbolic of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, also.

Well, and the color of gold, it represents divinity; it is a divine color, and it represents the Celestial Kingdom. When you read about in the book of Revelation that the road will be paved with gold, kind of cool. So we have this big long apron that would often go down to, you can see it's like almost down to their ankles. Okay, the next thing that we have is a robe. Now, this is interesting, because the words are different for us. Like when you think of a robe, you're like, you get out of the shower, and you tie the you know, the belt around it. That is not what the robe here is.

So this robe had to be made entirely of all blue, and it had to be made of one stitch, you weren't allowed to cut parts. So you can see in the picture, there's just a hole for the head, and you put your head through that hole. And then it would be like a big long tunic that would go all the way down to the ground with holes for your arms. And so the person, and we'll talk about this in Exodus 35, but the person who made this was skilled to be able to sew it with one stitch. And that's it. And that was a specific thing for the robe. Isn't that interesting?

In Exodus chapter 28, verse 3, this is the person who's supposed to, so it goes,

20:3 "And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted" [Oh my gosh, don't even get me started. When we do "Unnamed Women of the Old Testament", we're talking about these wise-hearted women. They're the ones who sewed,] "whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office."

And the cool thing about this is in this verse, it also talks about that it be not rent, that it can't be torn, it can't be anything. And when we talk about being in sackcloth and ashes, they would rent their garments. That's the first thing you do is you rent your garments apart. So it's a sign of grief and sadness. And you rip it cuz you wanted to be forgiven

Becky Farley 48:56

a brokenness, brokenness.

Tammy 48:58

Brokenness. Yeah, I wonder if that's why it had to be of one material, a symbolism of not being broken up, being one with Christ.

Becky Farley 49:05

Oh, I don't know. That's a good thought.

Tammy 49:06

And it couldn't get the rent. That is, oh, I like that. Okay, the next thing in that verse then that we talked about, is a broidered coat. Now, this was so interesting to me, because every picture I saw, it took me a while. I'm like, I don't see a fancy coat like, love a broidered coat, right?

Becky Farley 49:23

I love a broidered coat. (laughs)

Tammy 49:24

I do.

Becky Farley 49:25

With a sensible shoe. A broidered coat with a sensible shoe.

Tammy 49:27

You got me one for my birthday, remember?

Becky Farley 49:29

Yes, I did.

Tammy 49:30

I love a broidered coat.

Becky Farley 49:31

Yes, you do, you do.

Tammy 49:33

K, in Hebrew, it actually translates as a tunic. So that is the white robe that he's wearing, the white outfit. The Hebrew root word used for embroidered implies something like our modern damask, like a silk or a satin weave; something that had to be woven together to create this beautiful, skillfully-woven fabric. So that's what it means - a broidered coat. So it's going to be, and I thought this was interesting is that it also is resembling the garment of Adam. So it's a white, that would be worn underneath everything. So it's the first thing you're going to put on.

Then we the next thing we have is a miter. And this is interesting because it's a hat or a cap. And it was the Holy Crown, we had also a crown that was secured to this little hat that they wore. So they had their heads covered. And then on the top of the hat was the wording, "Holiness to the Lord". And isn't that beautiful? And you can find that in verse 36. It says right here, the instructions for the hat, and the Holiness to the Lord must be on top of that. That's where we get the wording that's on the outside of our temples.

Becky Farley 50:31

Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Right on your forehead, right over your forehead, Holiness To The Lord. Oh, gosh, I love that!

Tammy 50:38

Yeah The next thing is the girdle is what it's called right here. It's a girdle. It's also known as a sash. And that's in verse 8. This was so interesting to me. At this time, they wore two sashes: one would be around their chest, and the other would be around their waist. And the point of the girdle or the sash was to represent chastity and fidelity to the covenants that you made. And that you wrapped it around your chest several times and then you let it fall to the ground. And it was tied to covenants with the Savior, and it was wrapped around your heart. The heart is where you make your covenants; it's the seat of your emotions, as we've talked about before, and the guidance - it's a guide you. So you tie the sash around your chest, and then you would have this also girdle around your waist. And so I thought that was really interesting. And then you have this

Oh, I love that. Binding your heart to God.

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Beautiful. And then the curious girdle - I thought this was pretty interesting - because there is information concerning the pattern and the pairings of the curious girdle is limited. Since this vestment was directly associated with the ephod, it was only worn by the High Priest. Unlike the inner girdle, the one we just talked about around your heart underneath your item of clothing, this one would be on the outside and it was beautifully woven, skillfully woven. And it had all the colors in it. And that was tied around your waist and it was permanently attached to the ephod. And I just thought that was neat. And it would tie, as again, being connected to Christ. And then underneath everything you would have linen breeches, or linen underpants. So there you go.

Ben Schilaty 52:08

So comfy.

Becky Farley 52:09

So comfy.

Tammy 52:11

So Ben, I want you to read this about the eight articles of the sacred clothing, because here's what's significant about the clothes that they wear.

Ben Schilaty 52:17

Okay. Eight articles of sacred clothing are mentioned in association with the High Priest. The four undergarments, the linen coat, the breaches, the girdle, or sash, and the headband were worn by all Aaronic priests who worked in the tabernacle or the temple. The four outer garments: the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim, the ephod, the robe, and the miter were worn only by the High Priest.

Tammy 52:39

Thank you. Now I mentioned in our last segment that I was going to also tell you about a recipe. When the priests would put on this clothing, they needed something in addition to wearing the clothing, and they needed a special recipe. This recipe is found in Exodus chapter 30, verses 22-33. Verse 31 specifically tells us what we're making but these verses are a recipe for what was to be made. And Ben, will you look at verse 31 and tell us what it is that they are making.

Ben Schilaty 53:07

It says ".....This shall be an holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations."

So the holy anointing oil.

Tammy 53:13

It's exactly what they're making, and it is specific about what the Lord wants in this holy anointing oil. And the purpose for this oil then, is connected to the clothing. So let's go back to Exodus, chapter 28. And we are gonna look at verses 41-43. So Becky, will you please read for us Exodus, chapter 28, verse 41, and then verse 43.

Becky Farley 53:34

28:41 "And thou shalt put them upon Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him; and shalt anoint them, and consecrate them, and sanctify them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office.

43 "And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy place; that they bear not iniquity, and die: it shall be a statute for ever unto him and his seed after him."

And then Ben, will you please read in Exodus chapter 29, verse 4.

29:4 "And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water."

Tammy 54:19

And so right here, that's how they begin the ceremony of putting on the temple clothing: they will wash themselves, and they will then be anointed. Read verse seven, Ben. Yeah,

Ben Schilaty 54:29

29:7 "Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head and anoint him."

Tammy 54:33

Thank you. And so that's where the recipe comes in. And so they put on their clothing, and now they're able to help us or help the children of Israel perform all the ordinances that they're going to do at the tabernacle - all the burnt offerings, which we're not going to talk about in this episode. We're going to do that next week. But there's so much and it's so fun to talk about. So, this is the best part of all of it. Let's go to Exodus chapter 31, verse 10, because I want us to look at what the Lord calls this clothing specifically, And Becky, you actually mentioned this. So it's kind of cool that you said it, and here it is. So Exodus chapter 31, verse 10. Becky, will you read verse 10 for us.

Becky Farley 55:08

31:10 "And the cloths of service, and the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, to minister in the priest's office."

Tammy 55:16

What are they called?

Becky Farley 55:17

The cloths of service.

Tammy 55:19

There it is. How is that the same for us today?

Becky Farley 55:22

Well, when we put on that temple clothing, we are serving individuals, real people that lived on the earth. And we are doing something for them that they can't do for themselves right then. It's a gift.

Ben Schilaty 55:36

Yeah. And it should be pointing our hearts to serve as well.

Tammy 55:43

Boy, absolutely. Cloths of service. Now that is a great challenge. The next time you put on all of the clothing when you're in the temple, ask that question. Like, who can I serve? What should I be serving. Because we are doing it for people in the temple. But I like how you said that Ben, it should be pointing us to service, like taking it a step further. When we are endowed we wear our garments every day. I mean, just think about how our day-to-day life, our perspective, it would change if we thought of them also as our cloths of service. Again, Old Testament stuff, Law of Moses stuff. How cool?

Becky Farley 56:15

Love it.

Ben Schilaty 56:16

So good,

Tammy 56:16

Pointing us to Christ, so good. Okay, and then we're going to end this segment with Exodus chapter 31, verse 18. After Moses gets all this instruction about building the tabernacle, and the clothing, and all this awesome stuff, here's what happens.

31:18 "And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God."

Meanwhile, in the next segment, we're going to find out what the children of Israel were doing during those 40 days and 40 nights while Moses was getting all of this instruction.

Segment 5 56:46


Tammy 56:48

Okay, so here we go. I asked Ben and Becky to help me tell this story. And everyone turned with us to Exodus chapter 32 because it's a doozy. So I'm gonna let the two of you tell us what was going on while Moses was getting all this instruction. And Becky, you're gonna do verses 1-18. And then I gave Ben 19-35. You're welcome, Ben.

Ben Schilaty 57:07

Just a couple things happened here.

Becky Farley 57:08

Yeah. Just a little, just a little couple of things. Okay, so in verse 1, they, everybody is waiting for Moses. Moses has gone up into the mountain, and he's taking a long time. It says 40 days, 40 nights, That means a long time. Right, Tam? That means a long time.

Tammy 57:30

Yes. And interesting, the number 40 in Hebrew means "a period of test or trial". A proving moment. There's a lot of 40s in Scripture.

Becky Farley 57:39

For sure. And in fact, in verse 1 it says, "And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us Gods, which shall go before us;" That word 'go', so that's talking about the fact that by this point, God had led them in every single way. And when you look about what we've talked about, that there were like specific laws as to what they were gonna do, and this is what you do, and here's your manna, and here's how you're gonna build it. And now they're out in the wilderness, Moses is gone.

And so they want that same feeling of being guided. So they decide at that point, to make another God. So Aaron comes up with this idea: everybody give me your gold earrings. And then I'm gonna make a golden calf. And, you know, you think it sounds weird, but they were living in Egypt for hundreds and hundreds of years. This wasn't strange to them. If we look at it with ourself, we do a lot of things when we're out in the wilderness, that we're trying to get that direction. What can I do? Well, maybe I can watch, you know, a lot of reality TV, and I'll feel better. You know, play some video games, and I'll feel better or I mean, just something that's going to help me feel directed, but it's a fake, right? It's a fake.

So they make this golden calf. And then Aaron says, These are thy gods. So Aaron makes an altar, and then they rise up, and they bring the offerings at this, the same offerings that they were bringing to God, because they want that cheap imitation. They don't want the pain of continuing to wander in the wilderness, because it is painful, not knowing what to do next. It's so painful. And then they kind of have a feast at that point. So they sit down to eat, drink and rise up. And then at that point, the Lord says to Moses, who's still up in the mountain, Oh, you got to get down because they've corrupted themselves.

So Moses starts to get worried, it feels like. He's like, What, wait. What's going on, what's going on? And then God says, I'm going to consume them. And I'm only going to make you a great nation. I'm going to, I'm going to take care of everybody else, and you're the only one that gets to survive. And then Moses asked God to save the people. And he kind of reasons with Him at that point. And he says, About the Egyptians, that You didn't slave them. Anyway, he says to remember the promises that He has made with His people at this point. And then he says the actual promise in verse 13,

32:13 "....I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land which I've spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever."

So he reminds Him, this is the promise that You made. And then verse 14 is interesting. You have to go in to the Joseph Smith translation, because it doesn't make sense if you don't go into the Joseph Smith translation.

Tammy 1:01:00

I'm so glad you brought that up.

Becky Farley 1:01:01

Yeah, you really do. Because otherwise, it's like, 'what the heck? And the Lord repented of the evil'? The Lord doesn't repent! So in this verse 14, it says,

32:14 (JST Appendix) "And the Lord said unto Moses, If they will repent of the evil which they have done, I will spare them and turn away my fierce wrath. But behold, thou shalt execute judgment upon all that will not repent of this evil this day. Therefore, see thou do this thing that I have commanded thee or I will execute all that which I have thought to do unto my people."

Completely changes that verse 14, that point. So He does say, Okay, okay, Moses, I'll continue to follow along, and you're going to execute the judgment. So then he goes down from the mountain, and he brings the two tables, the commandments, and I just think about how nervous he must have been that this point, that he has said, Okay, what am I, What mess am I coming into at this point? What is going to happen now?

Tammy 1:02:05

Because the Lord had a moment in verses 11-14, like a parenting moment. I've had it. I'm done with these kids.

Becky Farley 1:02:12

I've had it. I'm just gonna wipe 'em off.

Tammy 1:02:17

No, no, no. Okay, come on. Like, it's kind of like going back to when Abraham bartered with the Lord. If I can just find 50 righteous people, you know.

Becky Farley 1:02:23

Yes, actually I had that thought. Yeah, well, maybe 10.

Tammy 1:02:27

Maybe. He's had this great, great conversation, and then the Lord's like, Oh, all right. You're right, Moses, I'll remember 'em.

Becky Farley 1:02:36

But I also think he must have been thinking, Well, Moses, good luck to ya. Just wait and see.

You have no idea what you're walking into.

Ya got a big ol' fat mess. And now all I'm thinking of is the movie "The 10 Commandments", when they're all down there partying with

Tammy 1:02:51

Oh, sure, sure. So that leads us to Ben. Ben, what do you find?

Ben Schilaty 1:02:56

Then Moses shows up, and he is not pleased. He's pretty angry. It says when Moses came down it says, "And he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount." So he broke them on the ground.

Tammy 1:03:11

Wow, he's mad.

So he was not pleased. And then he asked, Aaron, what's been going on? And then Aaron tells him everything that happened, and makes some excuses. And he says, Look, they wanted me to make gods, so we did this, this is what happened. And then Moses, who was still not pleased, has them grind the calf into powder, and they put it into water. And then they have all the Israelites drink this powdery water that has the calf in it, which doesn't sound great. And then Aaron tells him what had happened. And then it says in verse...

25 "And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies:)" Now, if you look at the footnotes, naked probably doesn't mean without clothes, it just means riotous, or it says, let loose. So they were and then it says, Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp and asked them Who was on the Lord's side? let them come unto me. So it gives people an opportunity to say who's on Lord side, and then something really, really crazy happens, where they go and kill a bunch of the people who had sinned. And I'm not sure why that happened, or how that happened. Seems a little bonkers to me.

It is a little bonkers, Ben, you're totally right. So here the Lord, He is so upset that back when Moses begged to save all of the children of Israel, the Lord commands the Levites to destroy or kill those who were just outright obstinate, completely unwilling to repent and change. They were not on the Lord's side.

Ben Schilaty 1:04:35

And then Moses goes back up the mountain, and he offers himself in the place of the Israelites who have sinned. He offers to take their sins upon him and offers to be blotted out of the Lord's book if He'll forgive the Israelites. And the Lord says, Well, I'm going to put plagues on them for their unrighteousness and for having other gods before me.

Tammy 1:04:52

Yeah. Wow. Excellent job, you two. That is exactly what happens in Exodus 32. And you did a much better job telling that story that I just would have glossed over. So it was perfect. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And so now as a result, Moses, ah, all right, he's told by the Lord in Exodus chapter 34. Let's go there. In Exodus 34 he's supposed to hew two new tables of stone, go back up to Mount Sinai for 40 more days, because the Lord's got some things to say to him. And so in the next segment, we are going to talk about this transformative conversation between the Lord and Moses.

Segment 6 1:05:29


Tammy 1:05:30

So in my scriptures next to Genesis, chapter 34, I wrote, "Take two" like, you know at a movie thing. Moses goes back to the mount, hews new tables of stone, gets the 10 Commandments again, Take Two. Because that's what's going on here. We are so lucky that we get to have the Joseph Smith Translation for what's really going on right here, because it completely changes the way we understand what's happened so far. So next to Exodus chapter 34 I have written "Take Two". You know like in a movie when they're about to do a scene again, and they get up and this is what I'm imagining it being said:

Moses goes back up to Mount Sinai, hews two tablets of stone, Take Two, because he's got to do it all over again. He's gonna go back up, get 10 Commandments, but he's gonna get something different. So the second time Moses came down from the mountain, there was something different written on these tablets of stone; we did have the 10 Commandments, that's always part of God's law. But this is why it's so wonderful that we have a Joseph Smith translation. Ben, will you please read for us the Joseph Smith Translation of Exodus 34, verses 1-2. And for those of you listening, we have it in our show notes. So you can go in there and follow along with us if you'd like to. And as we're listening, I want us to hear what the Lord gave to Moses that was new.

Ben Schilaty 1:06:41

JST 1 "Moses, hew thee two other tables of stone, like unto the first, and I will write upon them also, the words of the law, according as they were written at the first on the tables which thou brakest; but it shall not be according to the first, for I will take away the priesthood out of their midst: therefore, my holy order, and the ordinances thereof, shall not go before them; for my presence shall not go up in their midst, lest I destroy them.

"But I will give unto them the law as at the first, but it shall be after the law of a carnal commandment: for I have sworn in my wrath, that they shall not enter into my presence, into my rest, in the days of their pilgrimage. Therefore do as I have commanded thee, and be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me at the top of the mount."

Tammy 1:07:29

Becky, what was different this time?

Becky Farley 1:07:33

He took the priesthood out of their midst.

Tammy 1:07:35

Yes. When He says, "therefore my holy order", that is the Melchizedek priesthood. And I think what stood out to me this time as we read it again, which I didn't notice the first time, and I think it's because of Ben's beautiful reading poise is yes, when He says right here, that "they shall not enter into my presence, into my rest, in the days of their pilgrimage." What he's talking about is that City of Enoch idea, because he really thought they could be another city of Enoch. 'Entering into my rest' means to come and live with Him and dwell with Him.

And he's like, Yeah, that's probably not going to happen this time around. So here's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna give you, we call it a lesser law, but we're gonna give you the Aaronic priesthood, and we're gonna give you all these carnal laws, the law of Moses. And instead of having the tabernacle be a place of Melchizedek priesthood ordinances, we're gonna go carnal law where you're going to actually kill animals now, and you're going to have them represent you. And there will be blood, you have to use blood and different aspects of it. And it's just really carnal, isn't it? Any thoughts, any connections you're having?

Ben Schilaty 1:08:36

It just reminds me that the Lord was willing to give them so much. And the Lord gives us what we're ready for. And so, as I read these, I think, you know, is there a way that I'm living below my privileges? Yeah, but there's that General Conference talk by President Uchtdorf, it talked about living below our privilege, and they had the opportunity. And it seems like as soon as they were ready, God was willing to give them more. I think it's the same way with us that that God will give us the things we're ready for. And so when we show Him a willing heart, and a willing mind, and willingness to follow the commandments, God's gonna bless us with quite a bit.

Tammy 1:09:10

Absolutely. And there is so much beauty found in Exodus chapter 34, that we just have to mark because here's the Lord saying, I'm going to give them a carnal law. I understand they're not ready. And you know what else, Moses before you go down, I want to tell you one more thing about Me. So go with me into Exodus chapter 34. And we're going to look at verses 6 and 7. Now I'm going to read these verses. Here's what I want us to do. He's actually going to give Himself a new name to Moses. And I think this is incredible, because Moses knows who He is. Go back to the burning bush. Remember, He says I am. And then He talks about how I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. And before he goes down, He says to him this: You know what, though, Moses, make sure you let the people, the children of Israel know this about me. So underline the words that describe who He is to us and to the children of Israel. Here we go.

34:6 "And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord passed by before him and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

7 "Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin,"

What words stand out to you that describe him?

Becky Farley 1:10:24

Merciful, gracious, longsuffering, abundant in goodness and truth.

Ben Schilaty 1:10:31

And I love the idea that God is abundant in goodness and truth. That's such beautiful imagery.

Tammy 1:10:37

Yeah. And He's like, tell the children of Israel that I am this, like, Yes, I was, I was so upset before, like, what have they done? Here we are. And then we go into this next verse. Go with me down to verse 10. Because this is so cool. Oh, I think this might be my new favorite scripture verse. Becky, will you read verse 10, for us.

Becky Farley 1:10:57

10 "And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the Lord: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee."

Tammy 1:11:17

Highlight "terrible". We've learned what this word means in Hebrew, it actually means 'awesome'. So that's going to change it. I will do, and He says, "for it is an awesome thing that I will do with thee." What's the most awesome thing that the Lord will do with us? Go back to the word "done" in verse 10. When He says, "I will do marvels such as have not been done in all the earth". That word "done" is really interesting. And I read a great article about this verse. And I want to share this with you. I thought this was so cool. The word "done" in Hebrew, is BARA. And it's the very first word in Genesis, chapter 1 that says, I the LORD God created, I organized, I created.

And in this article, her name is Amy Blake Hardison, and she wrote this beautiful article about this experience. And she says, "In other words, what God is about to do is of such an unprecedented nature, that only creation language, combined with language of marvel, and awe, can adequately describe it. What is this act? It is the miracle of forgiveness."

And I just put forgiveness next to that verse like, it is awesome. I mean, we've all had that experience where being forgiven is awesome. And the Lord is saying to Moses, I will do that. In fact, up there in verse 7, He says, "forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin. Like I just think it's incredible, this creative experience; she combines creation to being forgiven, and being Gods.

Ben Schilaty 1:12:41

Yeah, Tammy, as we've been talking on this reading, you know who the Lord is, you know what his characteristics are. And then this verse took me back to when we were talking about chapter 32, and Aaron, who really messed up and he's, he's this church leader who really messed up. And then the Lord forgave him. And he was such an amazing priesthood leader, that we have a Priesthood that is named after him. And so see that, you know, all of us, when we go to the Lord, even if we've been letting loose with a golden calf, you know, we can be someone of like, such great value to the kingdom, that you know, that we can be honored in that kind of way. And, you know, most of us aren't gonna have a priesthood named after us, but we can all do things that aren't okay, and then the Lord can forgive us. That's awesome.

Tammy 1:13:30

That's awesome, Ben. So good.

Becky Farley 1:13:32

Well, and I love that in verse 10, where He says, I will do marvels, with an S. Not just marvel, marvels. Marvels will continue. He'll continue to do marvel's in our life. He'll continue to do amazing things. And every time you do feel that forgiveness, every time you do repent and feel that forgiveness - it is an awesome, you know, terrible marvel. It, the best thing, the best thing that you can ever get. I mean, I just think about the relief that has come over me when I have felt God do His marvel. In my own life, it's the greatest thing ever. It's just the greatest thing ever to know that you can be forgiven and move forward. Thank you, Becky.

Tammy 1:14:26

So I just want to finish with this last question. Then going back to Karl G. Maeser, as quote, When Karl G. Maeser said, "There is a Mount Sinai for every child of God, if He only knows how to climb it." What advice would you give to someone who is staring up their Mount Sinai,

Becky Farley 1:14:41

Put one foot in front of the other and just ask for the next step. You know, I think about that quote of Corrie Ten boom, who hid the Jews in her house and then ended up going to a concentration camp and then coming out and then preaching. And there was a Nazi soldier that had actually been one of the ones that had tormented her in one of her groups. And he came up at the end of her talk and asked to be forgiven. And she had that moment in her head, "I can't put the feeling into my heart, but I can put my hand out, I can put my hand out, and you can put the feeling in my heart."

And I think that we have to trust in God that He will put the feeling, He will put that spiritual uplifting momentum that President Nelson talked about in this last conference. He will put that momentum if you just put that step, start, just start in some way in a positive direction with the intention of going towards God, up the mountain towards God. He'll help you get there, but you can't, you can't eat the entire elephant, you know. Just a little bit at a time.

Tammy 1:16:03

God doesn't care about the pace. He just cares about the movement.

Becky Farley 1:16:07

You can go as slow as you need to go.

Tammy 1:16:08


Ben Schilaty 1:16:09

Becky, as you were talking about that I was thinking about the depictions of the iron rod. I've seen where the iron rod is often, like at waist level, like a like a railing you can hold on to. And sometimes for me, it's like the iron rod is 10 feet in the air, and I'm just like dangling from it. My hands hurt and my arms ache. And I was thinking, if and people have like, metaphorically stood under me and held me up, you know, kept their baptismal covenants to mourn with me, bear my burdens, comfort me. And so I think when someone's like, looking at their Mount Sinai, and thinking, I don't do like, yes, one step at a time. And maybe there's someone who can climb up with you. who can hold your hand and, help you go.

Becky Farley 1:16:44

Can hold your dangling legs,

Ben Schilaty 1:16:53

and so whatever that Sinai is, let people know that you're climbing it, and people will go up with you.

Tammy 1:16:58

You don't have to climb that alone. I think that is a beautiful metaphor for cloths of service. For everything that we've talked about, that is what we're anointed to do. We have been anointed; I feel that so strongly right now. We are all anointed to climb those Mount Sinais together. And then that's how we become His people and enter into His rest. And He thinks so much more highly of us than we think of ourselves. He's ready to give it away. He's like, I want all of this for you.

Ah, thank you. Thank you, you two. That was a great discussion. That's it, we're done. Gather your thoughts on Let's share our takeaways. I already know mine is so good. Beck?

Becky Farley 1:17:37

Ohhhhh. I think my takeaway is what Ben just barely said that sometimes someone's got to hold my dangling legs. And that's what I have to trust in that that's another marvel that God will perform for me is to put that person in the right place to hold me up in their cloths of service. For me, I need to rely on God and know that He is preparing that for me, that He is my God, and that I want Him to be my God. I don't want a, I don't want a cheap imitation. I want, I want the real thing to be my God and I want to trust in Him.

Ben Schilaty 1:18:22

I think my takeaway, just from what you said, is that we are the marvel, like our relationships with each other are the marvel that the Lord is going to do among us. And like, what a beautiful thing that the awesome marvel of like these covenants and the restoration, and that people who have got it is bringing us together so that we can be, we can serve each other.

Tammy 1:18:41

Oh my gosh, that was really good, Ben. I'm writing all of that down.

Becky Farley 1:18:44

So good.

Tammy 1:18:45

And then Becky, remind us again, the meaning of the word 'abide'? Because we talked about the word dwell and you said it meant to abide and what did you say about being lost, because that will stay with me forever.

Becky Farley 1:18:56

That it continues without fading or being lost. So thinking about a feeling or a memory, that you're going to be able to keep that fresh. You're going to keep that fresh in your mind; It's not going to fade; it's not going to be lost.

Tammy 1:19:13

Thank you, both of you for your takeaways for being a part of my takeaway. That was, those are my takeaways, what Ben and Becky said, so thank you. I love you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, well, we would love to hear what your big takeaway is from this episode, because there was so much. Now if you have not already joined our discussion group on Facebook or Instagram, go do it. Come on, just do it. Because it's so fun. And you can send me messages and you can ask questions. And then at the end of the week, on a Saturday, we post a call for your big takeaway. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and let us know what you've learned. And I read all of them. It's my favorite part of Sunday.

You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on LDS on Monday and it's not a bad idea to go there. And listen, you're gonna want to go there for this episode, because it's where we have a link to all the references, as well as complete transcript of this whole discussion. And lots of pictures and everything that you're going to want because there's so much with all the tabernacle and clothing.

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus Original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our really awesome study group participants were Ben Schilaty and Becky Farley. And you can find more information about my friends at LDS on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Erica Free and me. It is recorded and mixed by Mix at Six Studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week.

And please remember, you really are God's favorite.