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19: “Holiness to the Lord” (Exodus 35–40; Leviticus 1; 16; 19)

Fri Apr 29 16:23:35 EDT 2022
Episode 19

What do you say when someone asks you to do something difficult? Do you sometimes give a noncommittal maybe? Or do you sometimes say yes, but secretly mean no? In this week’s lesson of Exodus 35–40 and Leviticus 1, 16, and 19, we’ll see how the Israelites responded when the Lord asked them to do something difficult, and what we can learn from their response.

Segment 1


Exodus 35:1–9, 21–22, 25, 29

Doctrine and Covenants 64:34

3 Nephi 11:15

Link: Unnamed Women of the Old Testament: “The Weavers” Episode

Segment 2


Exodus 35:10, 25, 29

Footnote for 10a: “Every one that is talented or skilled”

Exodus 40:19–37

Segment 3


Book of Leviticus Breakdown

Leviticus 1–7 (Detailed Laws and Regulations on Sacrifices and Offerings)

Leviticus 8–10 (Consecration and Activities of Priests)

Leviticus 11–15 (Ritual Purity Chapters)

Leviticus 16 (Yom Kippur)

Leviticus 17–26 (Laws for Israel as a Holy People)

Leviticus 27 (Appendix)


Leviticus = A Latin word that has reference to the Levites, one of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Scrupulosity = “A form of obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) involving religious or moral obsessions. Scrupulous individuals are overly concerned that something they thought or did might be a sin or other violation of religious or moral doctrine” (C. Alec Pollard, “What is Scrupulosity?” International OCD Foundation,

Link: All In “Debra Theobald McClendon: Scrupulosity—Obsessive-Compulsive Anxiety You May Mistake as Faith Crisis”


Va-yiqra’ = And He called


“Leviticus, which is really a priesthood handbook for ancient Israel, is important to us as it teaches ‘atonement’ (a word that appears forty-nine times). The ritual sacrifices were types of the Savior’s future Atonement, and they continued until they were fulfilled by him at Gethsemane, Golgotha, and the Garden of the Resurrection. It is essential to understand the meaning of sacrifices, and the general principle of sacrifice, in order to understand the Sacrifice. The book of Leviticus is, therefore, a book about how to make the Atonement effective and central in ancient Israel and, by similitude, in modern covenant Israel” (D. Kelly Ogden, Andrew C. Skinner, Verse by Verse: The Old Testament, Vol. 1, Deseret Book)

Segment 4


Leviticus 1:2–14 (The Burnt Offering)

Moses 5:5–7

Exodus 29:39–42

Doctrine and Covenants 59:5

Mark 12:30

Ephesians 5:2

Luke 22:24


Leviticus 1:6–9 (Parts)

Head = Mind

Fat = Soul or Might

Inwards = Heart

Legs = Strength


Corban = Gift

Sprinkled = Scattered or poured

Segment 5


Leviticus 2:13

Leviticus 16: 7–10, 33–34

Doctrine and Covenants 4:4


Kippur derives from kafar, meaning to cover

Link: “The Golden Plates and the Feast of Trumpets” by Lenet Hadley Read


“On the annual Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) the people sought forgiveness of sins for which they had repented. The sins were put upon the head of a “scapegoat” (an actual goat) which was then driven out into the wilderness, symbolically bearing away their sins. The term “scapegoat” is substituted for the peculiar Hebrew word azazel, which apparently designates the adversary of the Righteous One.

“On the calendar, Yom Kippur falls near the solemn celebration of Rosh Hashanah (New Year’s Day) and comes just before the week of Sukkot (Feast of Tabernacles) and Simkhat Torah (“Rejoicing in the Law”). Of course, since the destruction of the Temple in a.d. 70, animal sacrifice has not been a part of any of these observances.

“These practices were highly symbolic. Verse 17 mentions that only one man alone could enter the Holy of Holies, just as Jesus accomplished the Atonement alone in Gethsemane and on the cross. Also, verse 30 explains that the priest made an atonement to cleanse the people. However, the ritual that the priest performed did not actually cleanse them any more than a piece of bread or cup of water cleanses us—it is the repentance that accompanies the ordinance, in concert with God’s power to forgive and make pure, that cleanses” (D. Kelly Ogden, Andrew C. Skinner, Verse by Verse: The Old Testament, Vol. 1, Deseret Book)

Segment 6


Leviticus 19:2, 9–10 (Law of the Harvest)

Leviticus 19:33

Ruth 2–3

Chapter 19 Heading: “Israel is commanded: Be holy, live righteously, love your neighbor, and keep the commandments—The Lord reveals and reaffirms sundry laws and commandments—Enchantments, wizardry, prostitution, and all evil practices are forbidden.”


Holy = It is dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose

Tammy 0:00

I can remember one day when my kids were young, and they couldn't say their Rs yet. I asked one of them to do something for me. And she quickly replied, sure. I was totally caught off guard. Sure. Did she just say, Sure? My heart smiled. It was sweet music to my ears. "Sure" might be one of the best things ever said to me by any of my children. I'm not sure what TV show or Disney movie she learned it from, but I'm super thankful.

Today's study of Exodus, chapters 35-40 and Leviticus, chapters 1, 16 and 19 teaches us about how important the word 'sure' is to the Lord's covenant people. And then I wondered, when the Lord asks me to do something, am I childlike enough in my response with a quick "sure"?

Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Desert Bookshelf Plus Original brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. K, if you're new to our study group, real quick, I just want to make sure you know how to use this podcast. So follow the link that's in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come Follow Me study just like my friend, Sony Lee Munson and her whole family, who apparently are having really incredible discussions around the dinner table after listening, and sharing what they're learning about the Old Testament.

Now here's another awesome thing about our study group, is each week we are joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different. And so today we have two fabulous friends. We've had them together before: last year. And I'm so excited that they're back. We have KaRyn Lay and Holly Richardson.

KaRyn 1:34

Hello, hello. Hello. Hello, hello.

Holly 1:37

Good to be back.

Tammy 1:39

They're back. How do you two know each other?

KaRyn 1:43

Oh, Holly, how do we know each other? Isn't this fun?

Holly 1:46

We met at a writer's thing. And I went camping with you and there was rain but no bears.

KaRyn 1:55

Oh my gosh, that was literally, I, it was one of my writing retreats - Holly came to it. And it was a disaster of epic proportions.

Holly 2:03

It really wasn't. It really was a lot of fun.

KaRyn 2:05

Okay. But from the, from the organizer perspective, it was a total disaster. Somebody literally like couldn't come at the last minute because they had a seizure in a Walmart; 3 people were in the hospital; 2 people just didn't show up. And then everyone that was there, we had a great day and a half before the rains came down. And the rain was like, it wasn't just like a little bit of rain. It was like a thunderclap at three o'clock in the morning. And everything was dowsed.

Tammy 2:34


Holly 2:36

But it was fun.

KaRyn 2:37

That part was fun. But if you're ever organizing a camping trip for writers where they have to like right on paper with a pen in the rain, a little, a little bit hard, a little difficult. A little bit hard.

Tammy 2:48

Well, I'm just so glad you guys are joining me today because we have so many great things to talk about. So thank you, thank you. Now if you guys want to know more about my friends, or see pictures of them, you can find their bios in our show notes which are found at LDS On Monday. Grab your scriptures, your scripture journal, and your marking pens and pencils, and let's dig in.

Alright, you two. I want to know - from my story at the very beginning - when you ask someone to do something and they say 'sure' or 'shor', like, how do you, how does that make you feel? Or is there an answer you really do love when someone says like, You bet. Is there anything like that for you?

Holly 3:28

Sure! KaRyn, you can jump in, but I try to say that, actually, when I respond to people, whether it's a 'sure', or 'you bet', or 'no problem', or 'my pleasure'. I enjoy responding that way. And I love it when people respond that way to me. But I will say this, my kids don't usually do that.

Tammy 3:46

And for those of you listening FYI, Holly has 21 Kids.

Holly 3:51

A few. It's 25

Tammy 3:52

Oh, gosh, you're right! She has 25 children. Yeah. So Yeah, boy, just one of those 25 would be, you know. "Shor". What about you, KaRyn?

KaRyn 4:01

We're working on this at our house, because for some reason, no one in my family likes to give definite answers to anything. So they like to say, "maybe", or "could be". And so I'm like, Okay, I need a definite answer. I need a yes or no. But there's a lot of keeping their options open around here. So we have a lot of redirecting conversations where I say you have to say yes or no, I'll take a no, but I won't take a Uh, um, eh, could, maybe, possibly. So a 'sure' or a 'yes, or even a 'no', I will take a 'no'. But I love the idea that God is hoping that we'll say 'yes', an emphatic 'Yes'. Right?

Tammy 4:41

Emphatic yes. Yeah. Oh, I think that's awesome. So when we go into this study today, we're gonna go into Exodus, chapter 35. And all I could think of when I was reading this was the children of Israel saying, Sure, or you bet, or we're going to do this. And I want us to go into Exodus 35 right now and look at some specific wording that made me think of this 'sure', or 'you bet'.

So a little background to Exodus 35. Moses has been on the mount for 40 days and 40 nights, getting the second set of stone tablets, and getting the lower or lesser priesthood as they call it, but it's the Aaronic priesthood, and all of the laws that they're going to be living.

And when he comes down off the mountain, I think it's beautiful how in Exodus chapter 35, it says he gathered all the congregation like, gather round children, here's what I'm going to tell you, here's everything you need to know. And the first thing out of the gates, he says is, remember to keep the Sabbath Day holy, which we're going to read often throughout the Old Testament. That is the one commandment that's consistently taught, keep the Sabbath Day holy, over and over again.

I want us to go into Exodus chapter 35. Because Moses is now going to speak to the congregation about something specific. And in verse 5, there's a word that Moses uses, hopefully implying that there's going to be an answer with a 'You bet'. Holly, will you please read for us Exodus, chapter 35, verse 5.

Holly 5:56

Exo 35:5 "Take ye from among you an offering unto the LORD: whosoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the Lord; gold and silver and brass."

Tammy 6:06

What's that word?

Holly 6:08

It's gotta be willing.

Tammy 6:09

You're right, Holly, the word is willing, let's highlight that. Because then after that, the Lord says whoever has a willing heart, here's what I want you to bring. Look over verses 5 6, 7, 8, & 9. Is this a big ask or a small ask?

Holly 6:24

It's a really big ask. He's asking for specific dyes that are hard to come by. So blue and purple and scarlet. He's asking for fine linen, asking for rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and oil, and spices, and incense, and onyx stones. He's asking for a lot.

Tammy 6:43

That's exactly right. Let's see how they responded to this ask. Let's go into Exodus, chapter 35. And, KaRyn, will you please read verses 21 and 22. Before you read this, though, in light of what you're trying to teach your children, there's something specific in this verse that I wonder how it plays into their response. So I want you to kind of tell me about this after you read it.

KaRyn 7:03

Very excellent. I'm excited now. Okay,

35:21 "And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing, and they brought the Lord's offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments;

22 "And they came, both men and women, as many as were willing hearted, and brought bracelets, and earrings, and rings, and tablets, all jewels of gold: and every man that offered offered an offering of gold unto the Lord."

I love poetry. And this is just so poetic. Everything about this. "They came, both men and women, and as many as were willing hearted". It's very rare that I feel like in scriptures, especially in the Old Testament, they talk about women. And so I underlined it, because after that they you know, everything's in the masculine, they're always like, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he. But in this one line, it mentions the women, he says, "And they came, both men and women". And I underline that because I'm like, there, there I am. There I am in the Old Testament.

Holly 8:03

Tammy, I know, will jump in here. But in verse 25, it talks about the women specifically, who spun.

Tammy 8:10

Just to do a plug for "The Unnamed Women of the Old Testament", this is the second episode, and we talk solely about these women, KaRyn. When you wonder where the women are, they are right here in Exodus 35. The role that women play in the building of the tabernacle is amazing. Like it could not have been built without the women.

Holly 8:29

Well, I one of the things that stands out to me, I think, is that as I read in 21, where it says "everyone whose heart stirred him up and........[whose] spirit made willing". That to me is it's really saying these are people who were moved by the Spirit, by the Holy Ghost. They felt something when Moses was talking, and because they felt something they took action.

And I think that's an important connection, right, is not only are we willing, and do we have a willing heart, but we will put that willingness into action in some way, right? Whether it's to serve other people, or to serve God, or in this case to help build the tabernacle. But we take our willingness and turn it into action.

Tammy 9:07

Oh, hold on, I'm writing notes. That was beautiful.

KaRyn 9:11

And Holly, I'm so glad you brought that up about the that stirring. That's what I what spoke to me as I underline this, because it's that idea of being stirred up and then needing to act. I underlined it, because you know, in Third Nephi, chapter 11, when Christ invites, look, I'm already crying and we're like two seconds into this stupid podcast. Ohhh.

But you know when Christ is standing there, and He's with His people, and He invites them and they come to Him one by one? I was reminded of that coming to Christ one by one, right? to feel the prints in His hands and the wounds in His side. And they came everyone. That's that whole line. If you look at the cut on that line where it ends, it ends up "and they came everyone has hearts stirred him up." And then I also love that they brought the Lord's offering. If I think about what I'm bringing, even when we're stirred up, and we offer a gift to the Lord, it's not our gift. It's His to begin with.

Tammy 10:12

I think it's beautiful, KaRyn, that you underlined the verse in 22. Because, listen, I know you KaRyn. You are always well dressed, and you always have incredible jewelry. Like

KaRyn 10:15

I do love a good earring.

Tammy 10:23

You do love a good earring.

KaRyn 10:27

I love earrings.

Tammy 10:30

Right now, the ones you're on. Like, of course that caught your eye. I mean, what is it about that when the Lord's like, Oh, yeah, bring me all your jewelry, you'll never see it again. Like, why does that touch you? And what is it about their ability to do it in that verse?

KaRyn 10:45

We think a lot of things are ours, and that we've earned them and that they belong to us. But the truth of the matter is, is that even my earrings, even my very cheap, big earrings, like, those belong to our Father in Heaven. Everything came from Him. Everything came from this. And I know that's kind of trite to say that, but I'm reminded of that in these Scriptures by them saying "they brought the Lord's offering to the work of the tabernacle."

Tammy 11:11

Well, it's not trite at all, because here's some incredible context for these verses. So several times throughout Exodus, Moses says to the people, listen, we're going to get liberated. And when we do, all of you women, I want you to go to the homes of the Egyptian women and borrow their gold, and silver, and earrings, and necklaces, and bracelets. It says borrow, but in Hebrew, it actually means ASK. And these women were thinking, oh, yeah, because we've been enslaved all these years, we're finally getting pay back. We're gonna have all this beautiful stuff, you know. And they thought it would be theirs.

And yet, the Lord's like, I'll let you think that. You carry them into the wilderness, because that's going to be your job, but I'm actually going to call for them when we're in the wilderness, to build the tabernacle. You don't know that yet. And you think you have all of this surplus because you're being blessed, which is true, but I'm going to ask for you to give that back. What we're going to do then, is in the next segment we're going to do another cool connection between these willing hearts, and then another aspect of these women's hearts - and men - in the next segment.

Segment 2 12:14


Tammy 12:23

This is so cool to me. Because when I was getting ready to do this episode, and knowing the two of you would be on here, I thought, I couldn't think of two people who fit more perfectly into Exodus chapter 35, verse 10. You are both very talented and skilled women. So first of all, tell me about a skill that you have, and how did you obtain it? Was there ever a time when you're like, I want to learn how to do that, and then you did?

Holly 12:45

It sounds kind of funny, but I wanted to get more education. When I was not married. I had an associate degree in nursing. And I began a career there. But I got married. And I started, as you've mentioned, the very large family and I took 30 years off. And then as the kids started to get older, I started to want to go back to school to finish a bachelor's degree. And so I did that. And then I wanted to keep going. And so I did that. And I got a master's degree. And then I wanted to keep going. And so I just barely defended my dissertation, and I get my PhD this week.

Tammy 13:25

Whooo hooo!

KaRyn 13:26

Yay, Holly!

Holly 13:27

so that's something that I just decided that I wanted to do. And a common question is, well, what are you going to do now? And the answer is, I don't know. That was the next step for me to take. I wanted to do it. And so I did.

Tammy 13:39

Congratulations. Oh, my gosh.

KaRyn 13:42

That's serious business. I don't think people really understand what it takes to—

Holly 13:48

I didn't understand until I started, because holy cow!

Tammy 13:52

Oh, it's pain.

Holly 13:53

It is, man. It was a stretch for me.

Tammy 13:54

That is awesome.

KaRyn 13:56

So what is it? What do you think the biggest skill is that you learned from that, Holly? Besides perseverance, that is a skill? Like what's a practical skill that you're you're coming out of this with that you're like, I know this.

Holly 14:09

That is a really good question. And I think one of the things is I know how to research and I know how to read the research. And I know how to do the research; that I can stand and say, You know what, I've looked at this, and I can tell you, this is either a bad study, or, you know, this has got some really, really good validity here. And there's a reason that people are talking about this or that it needs to be researched. I think that's one of the things.

I think another thing that happened that I wasn't anticipating is that my kids who were still at home and still going through high school, they would see me have to do papers and do homework, and it inspired them. And I heard several of them say, Well, if mom has to study then I can sit down and I can study too. So that part has been good, too.

Tammy 14:56

Wow, great example.

KaRyn 14:58

Yeah, studying is a skill set. Thinking is a total skill, trying to teach a teenager how to study and I'm like, Did I ever learn how to, this was amazing.

Tammy 15:07

We didn't in the 80s, no.

KaRyn 15:08

We didn't study in the 90s.

Tammy 15:12

What's about you, KaRyn - what's a skill?

KaRyn 15:14

Okay, so the first thing that I thought of is - okay, you're gonna love this - I taught myself how to play the guitar. Yeah, I play the guitar, I'm poor at it, I've gotten better. But in my 20s I, I was like, huh, I wonder if I could figure out because I wanted to sing and I wanted to try all these other things. So I picked up this guitar. (laughs) I am already laughing because I'm about to tell you something super embarrassing. So the first song that I ever learned on this guitar was (sings): "brrrring, kiss me." And then it would take me five minutes, five minutes to find the other chord and it would be like "brrrring, out of the bearded barley". Brrrrring.

And I played that song over and over and over again until my roommates were like, you really, really have to find a new song. We really hate Sixpence None the Richer. Like once I got a little bit better at it, I started going to visit my aunt who's a guitar teacher. And I asked her to teach me some new chords. And we used to call them new tricks. And then I would learn a new trick. And then I tried to write a song with that new thing that I learned and eventually I got to the place where I can play the guitar.

Tammy 16:33

And have you used it since?

KaRyn 16:34

Oh, yeah, I. What you don't know about me, Tammy is that I was once on a television show, a singer/songwriter show for BYU TV that lasted one episode, and it was called "Star Biz". And I

Tammy 16:48

"Star Biz"? Sounds like something I did in my basement with my sisters on a Sunday afternoon because we couldn't watch TV. It made us create our own TV show. It's called "Star Biz". Oh my gosh, that's so funny.

KaRyn 17:00

I was on "Star biz" and I played the guitar and I sang some songs that I wrote. And guess what? I made it to the top 10 of "Star Biz".

Tammy 17:09

Wow. That's a pretty great story, though. Okay, I love that. Okay, ladies, that was awesome. Thank you for answering my question and sharing with us that skill. Let's jump into Exodus 35 and see what it has to do with our discussion on the word willing and verse 10. So here we go. Holly, will you read verse 10 for us.

Holly 17:28

35:10 "And every wise hearted among you shall come, and make all that the Lord hath commanded;"

Tammy 17:33

Look at the footnote for 10a when it says "and every". Look down below, it says what?

KaRyn 17:38

Everyone that is talented or skilled.

Tammy 17:42

Yes. Now every one that is talented or skilled, every wise hearted person. Now isn't this so beautiful? Because we're going to see wise hearted several times in Exodus 35, in connection with a willing heart. So this is my question to you guys. How does it connect to be wise hearted and willing hearted and all of this stuff and feeling the spirit Holly, like you told us - having your heart stirred up and having a skill and serving the Lord? Connect these for us.

Holly 18:09

I think that you don't start off talented or skilled necessarily, right? So at this point, perhaps they needed skilled artisans, but they were also willing to accept any offering. And I think that's what we take to the Lord when we accept callings, for example, that push us outside of our comfort zone. Like your friend who's the organist who wasn't the organist, right?

Tammy 18:32

Oh, yes, totally.

Holly 18:34

But I think it's one of the great things where we say, Yes, sure. And then we try to figure it out later, right, or on the way down, or on the way back to Jerusalem to get the brass plates. We're saying, Okay, yeah, sure. I don't know how. we aren't really sure how that's gonna work out and we don't really know if we have the skills.

And I'll just say from our adoption journey - our family journey - our very first adoption, we had three tiny little kids. And we went to Romania. And by we, I mean me. And my husband stayed home and took care of the kids and went to work. But I didn't really know how it was going to work out. I didn't know if we were going to be successful. I didn't know if we were going to bring these kids home. I didn't know what kids we were supposed to adopt. But I felt a prompting. And it was really strong. And I said, Yeah, sure. And then I was like, Okay, we'll try to figure it out. Right? And we did. But that was the beginning of trying to say, Yeah, sure.

KaRyn 19:31

Well and I just want to say I think actually Holly, to that end, the yes, sure, and the how - I've always thought of it this way. And I think that verse 29 speaks to this, right? So He says

35:29 "The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the LORD, every man and woman," (again, "woman", which I'm grateful for), "whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work which the Lord had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses."

So I always think of the difference between inspiration, revelation as the How is often undefined in inspiration. Revelation is pure and it's clear and it's right there. And it's revealed and it's like you get it, you see it. But inspiration is that feeling of like, like I'm stirred up. I'm willing, I have a willing heart. But I'm not wise yet. I'm not wise. I don't know the how. So the difference between inspiration and revelation, I think inspiration is a willing heart without understanding how. And then when you become a wise heart, you know the how.

Tammy 20:34

Wow. KaRyn, you know, as you were talking, I looked back at verse 25, which specifically speaks to women who are wise. And verse 25 says "And all the women that were wise hearted did spin with their hands, and brought that which they had spun...." I put myself in that category. I don't know how to spin, but I'll try. You bet. I'm willing to learn if someone will teach me how to do that.

And I think, how many times in our life are we just thrown opportunities, or life experiences? Like I just think of you, KaRyn all the time. Anyone who's a stepmom, boy, if that is not a willing and a wise hearted moment where you're like, I'm not sure how we're going to do this, but I'm willing to try. And it is a skill to be able to parent kids who are not your own or even your own. Like it is

Holly 21:16

That's just parenting.

KaRyn 21:16

Yeah. that's what Holly said, is just, that's just parenting.

Holly 21:19

It's parenting in general.

Tammy 21:20

Yeah, right. Like, boy, I don't know, but I'm willing and wise hearted. That skill I'm gonna learn, I'm hoping.

KaRyn 21:26

But I'd also attribute that a little to things that aren't necessarily tactical. I mean, we've been talking about practical things like research and guitar playing. But when I think about navigating the nuances of doubt, or fear, or confusion, or unanswered prayers. How many times do we have to approach that with a willing heart and a desire to become wise hearted? That the how is not always going to be present to us. I had somebody recently just remind me that sometimes the dissonance of being a disciple of Jesus Christ in these latter days, sometimes that dissonance will be with us for a long time.

And so as you're thinking about being willing hearted, with an eye towards becoming wise hearted, that applies to less tactical things and more philosophical or nuanced things as well. And I think that you can become wise hearted, you can learn the How about traversing doubt. You can learn the How about traversing trials and hard things, and insecurity, and unsureness, and the world. I don't know. So I just, I don't want to lose the fact that they weren't just bringing their skill set to the temple, to the tabernacle, we're bringing our whole heart, our wise heart, our willing heart, all the pieces of our hearts we bring to put into this covenant of being a disciple of Christ.

Tammy 22:45

It is profound to me as we talk about this, about our wise heart and our willing hearts, and how here we are -we're building this tabernacle. And I think it's incredible how in Exodus chapter 40, just turn really quickly because it tells us what it will look like in the end, which by the way, will be in Exodus 37, 38, 39. Now we're going to build it and here's all the clothes you're gonna make.

KaRyn 22:45

Can I just tell you really quickly? As I was reading all of this, I was like, This feels like an Ikea.

Tammy 23:08

It totally does! The directions, instructions on how to build something.

KaRyn 23:18

My eyes were glazing over. I was like, I am not built for, I'm like, they're telling you how to put a tabernacle together.

Tammy 23:27

That's exactly what IKEA says.

KaRyn 23:29

I know. I really felt like that little blue man from the IKEA things should be inserted into my pages. I was like, I will never

Tammy 23:36

That's funny.

And of course, pieces will be left.

There's gonna be screws on the ground. Yeah, for sure, if I was in charge. Go to Exodus chapter 40: 19 and 34, because I think this is really beautiful. In verse 19, the Lord, He says,

40:19 "And (he) spread abroad the tent over the tabernacle, and put the covering of the tent above upon it; as the Lord commanded Moses.

And then verse 34, "Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle."

He says put a tent over the tabernacle to protect it. That is the head divine kinsman's tent. And we've talked about that all year. We've talked about going to the kinsman and asking for his help. And now here, here He is, He is setting it up, He will dwell among us. And those of us that are wise hearted and willing hearted, are going to help build that tabernacle. And that's what He needs us to do, every one of us in all these areas we've talked about. So thank you, ladies. That was an incredible discussion.

So the children of Israel are to set up camp or to stay. So for right now, the children of Israel are going to stay because the Lord has some more information for them, which is a whole new book in the Old Testament. And we're going to dive into that in the next segment.

Segment 3 24:44


Tammy 24:47

There could not be two more perfectly appropriate women to talk about this next topic. In fact, we might have to cut it short because I know you have so much to say about this. I don't even know if I dare say the word out loud to you guys, because you have so many opinions. Why are laws important? Go. (laughter)

KaRyn 25:02

I'm gonna let Holly, I'm gonna let Holly who is a former law maker.

Holly 25:09

A former legislator, right?

KaRyn 25:11

Holly is a former legislator, yes. Talk to us about why laws are important. And not only that, what about additional laws to help you keep the laws? Give us some thoughts and opinions on this stuff.

Holly 25:21

I actually am of the opinion that there are some laws that are necessary, right? They help us maintain order and, but really, it can become overkill. And that's one of my takeaways for Leviticus is, oh, my goodness, it's kind of overkill. They're being commanded in all things, trying to describe how many steps you can take on the Sabbath. Okay, there is a place for law, there is. But there's a place where it feels like it's just too much. And here's the thing, too: If you have too many laws, people will break them because they just don't even know that they're there. There's just too many for them to track.

Tammy 26:01

Hold on. That's a really great thought. Too many laws. People will break them. Is that what you said?

Holly 26:10

If there's too many, you can guarantee that people are breaking the law because they just don't know all the ins and outs of every single law they're supposed to be obeying.

Tammy 26:18

That was interesting. So good. What about you, KaRyn. Any thoughts on law?

KaRyn 26:23

So I have a super rebellious streak in me. You know, I served a mission; I've done all the things. But there are days where I just want to break rules to break rules. And I know, isn't that crazy? Sometimes I just want to be like, You don't get to control me. You can't tell me what to do. I'm going to jaywalk right here, right now. Oh, I get livid when there is like a blockage on a street, and I don't see why it's blocked.

If I don't understand the why that law exists, or why those things are blocked off then I'm like, This is stupid, I'm out. And I just, I jaywalk. I jaywalk. And I'm angry about it. And I walk across angrily with all my fists pumping, and my, I'm very angry. And I do it. And some people that I know - they've been very shocked by my willingness to—

Tammy 27:13

I am shocked.

KaRyn 27:16

Very shocked by my willingness to willy nilly break laws that I think are stupid.

Tammy 27:21

Well, I am shocked, for the record KaRyn. But I'm super grateful for your candidness. So thank you for sharing that with us. Because we are going to dive into The Laws in the Book of Leviticus. Everyone turn to the Book of Leviticus. This is where the laws are. And there are so many of them. Now, we do not have enough time to cover the entire Book of Leviticus today, which I wish we did. But we could spend weeks on it because it's just awesome. But we are going to cover some really important things. Before we do, I'm gonna give you some fun facts about the Book of Leviticus.

So first of all, the word Leviticus is the Latin word. And it has reference to the Levites, one of the 12 tribes of Israel. So the Levites held the lesser priesthood, and they were given the responsibility to officiate in the tabernacle, and then later at the temple in Jerusalem. So it's sort of like a priesthood book for the priests. The other cool thing is that the Hebrew name for the Book of Leviticus is VAYIKRA. And that means, "and he called", which is actually the first part of the first verse, because we talked about how in Hebrew, there's different names for all of the books. So that is what it is: Leviticus or VAYIKRA - "and he called".

It was written by Moses; Moses held the authority and the keys of the Melchizedek priesthood. And then Aaron and his sons and all the other tribes of Levi held the lesser priesthood. Now, here's the breakdown of the book, okay, so that we have a schema for what Leviticus is about. And I wrote this on the side of my page in the book of Leviticus. So chapters 1-7 are all of the detailed laws and regulations on sacrifices and offerings. So I just put 1-7, "Detailed Laws and Regulations".

Chapters 8-10: these are the consecration and activities of priests. So 8-10, "Consecration and Activities of Priests". Chapters 11-15 are the "Ritual Purity" chapters; this is the clean and unclean, the food they can eat and can't eat, but it's also about physically clean and spiritually clean or unclean. Then chapter 16 gets its own special title, which is "Yom Kippur, or Day of Atonement".

Then we have chapters 17-26. These are the "Laws for Israel" as a holy people. And it's another holiness code that they're going to learn to live by. And then chapter 27 is sort of an "Appendix on Religious Vows". And it's just a reminder of the eternal relationship that exists between God and man. So chapter 26 is like an appendix.

So we had this great discussion at the beginning about laws and and Holly, I loved how you said sometimes if you have too many laws, it's really hard to keep them. I think that is really profound. So why do you think God gave the children of Israel those so many laws?

Holly 30:03

I can look back and say, okay, for example, in chapter 12 in Leviticus, it's the law of purification of women after childbirth. So, another one of the things that I've done is to be a midwife, actually, and deliver babies. And moms need time after childbirth to recover. And one of the things that the period of purification in Leviticus would offer this mom is this postpartum period, where she could be cared for.

Then and now childbirth and the period right after are the most dangerous times for a mom. And so to have this time where she doesn't have any other responsibilities, even though they label it as impure, she doesn't have any other responsibilities, so she has a time where she can recuperate and take care of herself take care of her baby, and that's all. I can see the wisdom in that.

KaRyn 30:56

Well, and then there was like the one rule that's like, okay, you can eat the meat the first two days. The third, don't eat it on the third day; if you do that's unclean. And at first, I was like, you know, they didn't have refrigeration. So by the third day, I bet that meat's no good and so there's part of me that's like, Okay, some of these laws are practical, potentially. I think God's laws are both spiritual and practical, in some sense. And we may not understand back then they didn't know about microbes, they didn't understand, you know, what causes people to get worms in their stomachs from eating weird, unclean pork.

So on some level, those laws protected them both physically and potentially spiritually. So when it comes to these laws, there's a spiritual and a physical, but they're also for the time that they're in. And I think this is important, because the other day we were driving around in my friend's minivan, and I was like, oh, yeah, my family had one of the first minivans on the market. We had a Ford Aerostar. And there are seven kids in my family. And I was like, yeah, it was the first time my family could at all fit in a car together.

And she said, Wait, there aren't nine seats in a minivan. And I was like, oh, yeah, because none of us were seat belted, or in car seats, and two of my siblings would just roll around on the floor. Like the youngest ones just sort of like lived on the floor of the minivan. And the rest of us just squeezed in. And I realized that laws change for a reason. There's a reason and a time, and I was thinking about laws that we used to have back in the day, right, that are still on the books, Holly could probably talk about this.

There are tons of laws still on the books today that if someone was to actually get in trouble for one of those antiquated laws, it would be hilarious because they're ridiculous. And we don't believe in them anymore, right. So in the same way that the seatbelt laws have changed as we've gained more knowledge, and we understand what needs to happen, sometimes you get more laws to protect you. And then there are other times where we have to remove some laws to make sense in our day and time.

So when I think about these very prescriptive laws in Leviticus I'm like, there was a time and a place for them. And I bet that it protected very many people. And I can eat my food after three days. Like, cuz I love a good leftover.

Holly 33:14

And I want to counter. If you start to layer on top of existing law without any kind of accommodation for the times, as you said, right, you do end up with these layers upon layers upon layers. And it's almost like that story of the mom who cut the ends of the ham off, right? And her daughter's like, Okay, why do we do that? And the moms like, Well, I don't know, my mom always did that. And so they call grandma and grandma said, Well, the pan that I had was too small. But they had passed that down as a generational thing of, this is what we do when we cook our food. Well, they didn't make accommodations for a larger pans, for example. And I wonder how many times we actually do that to ourselves.

So you we may have legal things on the books, we may have spiritual laws. But sometimes we put our own constraints on ourselves and say, Well, if this used to be good, then if I do double that, then it's better, right? To scrupulosity, the almost OCD level of, If I fast once a month, then it's better if I fast once a week, and I might even be better if I fast every day, right? Or if I go to the temple once a week, it's better if I go every day.

And you start to see where if you pile laws on top of laws, you end up not understanding why they're there, which maybe we don't anyway, and we have to show some faith to obey. But you've lost then the reason that they were given and the reason God is asking us for our obedience and those types of things.

Tammy 34:52

Well, and as you were reading over all of these laws, and there's so many, what did that teach you about God as a father?

Holly 34:59

Oh,when my kid kids were young, younger, I probably had more rules. They hadn't developed enough to be able to understand why I was saying you can't go outside without me because you might run into the street. As they get older, I trust them to go outside and stay on the sidewalk; as they get a little bit older I trust them cross the street, right? because I've taught them. But when they're small, they do have more rules, and they have more restrictions.

Tammy 35:26

Excellent answer.

KaRyn 35:27

And I would just say, for me, a long time ago, I thought God was a petty God. If you started listing all the rules that I thought I had, all He cares about is the rules; all He cares about is the rules. He makes all these rules, and I have to follow them. And if I'm not 100% perfect at them, then I'm a failure. And I think it's important to acknowledge that the nature of God, when we look at just the laws, you can misinterpret who He is. If the laws are not balanced with His endless Mercy and His endless love and His endless longing for justice? Justice and mercy are balanced. I mean, we can find mercy in there, but it's a lot of law.

Holly 36:10

If you don't keep the Sabbath Day holy, then you die.

KaRyn 36:14

This is what I'm saying, right? So if you don't have the Old Testament paired with the God we learned of in the New Testament, then you can get pretty stuck in this space where He's just a vindictive, rule-mongering dude who only cares about making sure that you follow all of His commandments. And so, frankly, I think that it's something that I've had to work through and try to understand about the nature of God and who He really is, as opposed to what that sense of 'follow the rules or else' . . ..

Tammy 36:43

So KaRyn, I love that you just said you can misinterpret who God is when you focus so much on the laws. I think that's a great way to end this whole segment. Because what we're going to do in the next three segments is we're going to reinterpret maybe who God is, by looking at this beautiful balance of He does give laws and He's merciful. And we're going to study the three most important chapters in the book of Leviticus in the next three segments.

Segment 4 36:47


Tammy 37:13

We're in Leviticus chapter 1, and we're going to cover just verses 2-10 here. So, grab something to write your Scriptures with, and let's learn about this thing called The Burnt Offering. Now, this specific offering or sacrifice, it has existed since the time of Adam. In fact, if you go to Moses chapter 5, and read verses 5, 6, & 7, it talks about this burnt offering. And it also teaches us that this sacrifice is, and it says, "a similitude of the only begotten of the Father." So the whole point of this burnt offering is to remind us of Christ and His Atonement.

Next to verse 2, let's write "Exodus, chapter 29:39-42", because here's what we need to know going into this. It teaches us - and we're not going to turn there but if you go there you'll read in those verses in Exodus - that it was required to make the sacrifice or offering every morning and every night. Now, let's jump into verse 2 and learn about the burnt offering. So in verse 2, it says,

Lev 1:2 "Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man have you bring an offering unto the LORD,"

So this offering came from your herd. Now, there's an important word here: it's 'offering'. This word in Hebrew is CORBAN. And it actually means "Gift". So you are to bring your gift to the Lord. And according to verse 3, skip down to verse 3. This gift is to be voluntary, and of your own freewill. Now, in verse 3, the offering from the herd must be a male without a blemish. Verse 4 teaches us that the person bringing the animal was to lay their hand on the head of the animal and to transfer their sins and imperfections, sort of the animal becoming a proxy or taking the place of, and the animal then owns this sacrifice. The animal is then killed. And in this verse, it says,

1:5 ".....Aaron's sons shall bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round [about]upon the altar....."

Now the blood of the animal is caught in a cup or a bowl, and it was sprinkled, or this word in Hebrew can also mean scattered, poured, or strewn all over the altar. And they would do this on all four walls of the altar, making sure that the four walls were covered in this blood. Now let's go to verses 6-9. And if you want to you can bracket these off, and right next to them, the word "parts", and you just need to know this is parts. The priest would then cut the animal up into very specific parts. Verses 8 & 9 tell us the parts. The parts are the head, the fat, the inwards, the legs.

So these parts are a foreshadowing of what we will be asked to give when the Savior comes to fulfill the law, and then he gives us a higher law. There's a great cross reference to this verse. It's in Doctrine and Covenants, section 59:5 and Mark chapter 12:30. And it says,

D & C 59:5 "Wherefore I give unto them a commandment, saying thus: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy might, mind, and strength; and in the name of Jesus [Christ] thou shalt serve Him."

These four things that we circled, represent that verse we just read. The head is the mind, the fat is the soul or the might, the inwards is the heart, and the legs are the strength. In verse 9 all of the sacrifice was to be completely burned, completely consumed, there could be nothing left. And it was a slow burn, and it was a sweet savor unto the Lord. Now you're gonna see this wording 'sweet savor' often throughout scripture, and it's associated with sacrifice. Now this is interesting, because burning an animal, it was pretty stinky. There was nothing sweet about this experience.

So this sweet saver is so awesome. There's a scripture in Ephesians chapter 5:2 where we are admonished to "walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling aroma." This sweet savor or sweetsmelling aroma, again, was how beautiful and sweet the sacrifice of the Savior was, and how the Lord feels about us when we offer ourselves to Him. It is sweet.

Then, in verses 10-14, how much do I love these verses that if you could not afford a bull or anything from a herd, you could actually bring other animals, like flocks or fowl. That was allowed for people who didn't or couldn't afford cattle or larger animals. Now, this is so awesome, because we connect this to Luke chapter 2:24. Here's where we read that after the Savior's birth, and after Mary's days of purification, Joseph and Mary will offer two turtledoves. They were so poor, they couldn't afford any animal from a herd. And so that was the poorest of offerings that you could bring.

And I just think it's incredible, because how amazing that God's law provided a way for His future family to participate in this offering that was in similitude of their very own son. I just think it's so cool that the Lord allows everyone to participate in this practice. Okay, so tell me some connections you made, what did you write down?

KaRyn 42:16

I know this is kind of gruesome, but I loved the visual of the sprinkling of the blood to the four walls. Because it's symbolic of this, you know, we talk about the four corners of the earth. The four walls of the tabernacle or the temple means that the blood of Christ reaches everywhere; that there is nowhere that the Atonement of Jesus Christ or his sacrifice for his children can't go. And also, well, if we think about our bodies as a tabernacle, that the atonement can reach all the parts of us that we think are too broken or too hidden for the Lord to find. If our body is the tabernacle of our spirit, then Christ's Atonement can reach all of those places.

Tammy 43:01

Such an excellent connection. Awesome job, KaRyn. I had to look that up to find that connection. I am so proud of you. Like just on your own there it is. Nice work, so good.

Holly 43:12

You're such a deep thinker. So here I am saying, Well, a male without blemish is like Christ.

Tammy 43:18

Well, yes.

Holly 43:19

He in some ways is proxy. He's not even proxy, right? Because we can't do it for ourselves. But I do like the idea of being able to come to the altar with what we can bring, loved that.

KaRyn 43:37

I thought it had to be the first of the of one kind walk like, I never knew that it could be whatever you could bring, like I just love that.

Tammy 43:46

Burnt offering yep, that's cool for the burnt offering, it can be whatever you can bring the Lord's willing to take that offering or that gift from you.

Holly 43:54

Yeah, the Lord meets us where we are. And it ties into the story of the widow in her mite. We can bring our whole heart and maybe that's pigeons. And

Tammy 44:06

it totally is.

KaRyn 44:09

Tammy, what is the symbolism of the burning things until they're completely gone? Is that the sort of similar to how the, we get baptized by fire? Is it a, what is the symbolism of that?

Tammy 44:21

Oh, I'm so glad you asked that question. Because all of this is going to be fulfilled with Christ when He comes. He's like, K, you don't have to do that anymore. All I want now from you is your heart, might, mind, and strength. And when you put those four parts on the altar, He wants all of it. He doesn't just want some of your heart. He doesn't want a little bit of your fat. He wants all of your heart, might, mind, and strength. So the consuming of all of that on the altar is us giving all of it to the Lord until every bit, until it's consumed. But how fun that it's a slow burn. I mean, it's not going to be fast for a lot of us. Maybe some people maybe a quick burn, I don't know. But I love that the Lord's willing to like give us time maybe.

KaRyn 45:00

Well, and I'm thinking like, okay, it's gonna take longer for and more firewood for a different offering from a different person. But if you have like a little bird, you're done in an hour, you know? So, I love the flexibility of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I love that it is so personal, that whatever that consumption looks like of you laying that on the altar, for some of us it's going to take years of our lives to fully be consumed by the Lord. And then for others, it's going to be like, Yeah, I'm all in. Let's do this right now. And He's cool with all of it. He's cool with all of it.

Tammy 45:36

Well and how fun to think when you connect it to the Spirit, then, with that fire, and that burning, which is: that the Savior, Jesus Christ will consume it all for us. And that's the beauty in that, like His atonement will consume all of our yuck.

KaRyn 45:50

So one of the other questions I have is that it feels a little wasteful. Do they eat it? Do you eat any parts of it?

Tammy 45:55

Not in the burnt offering, there were some offerings you could partake after. But the burnt offering was all consumed, it was all given as a gift voluntarily to the Lord. Well, those are great connections, you guys. Awesome job. And I didn't even give you a heads up for that. So thank you, thank you. And if any of you listening have your own connections, please share with us what you've learned. Go on social media on Facebook or Instagram, leave us messages. Because I just again, it is so cool to see what other people come up with, because there's so much here.

Okay. So this is going to be the sacrifice that's going to prepare the children of Israel now for one of the most important sacrifices that they will offer, which will be the holiest day of their entire year. And we're going to talk about that in the next segment.

Segment 5 46:38


Tammy 46:41

How important is salt to you guys?

KaRyn 46:45

Uhhhh, very, very important.

Tammy 46:48

I can't eat anything without salt.

KaRyn 46:50

No! This is when I knew I was a real grown-up. I have like seven kinds of salt in my house now.

Tammy 46:56

Oh, easily, yeah.

KaRyn 46:57


Tammy 46:58

And do you find the older you get, the more you use?

KaRyn 47:00

Oh yeah, I'm like, I can't taste this.

Tammy 47:03

I don't even know what world people live in where they don't put on salt before they taste it. I automatically just salt anything. I don't care. I don't care if you put salt in it.

KaRyn 47:11

But I will say this: as I've attempted to become a chef, I have feels for salt. Like I know how much I'm putting into something. If I'm using kosher salt I know how much to grab for just the right amount. And then if I'm using sea salt I know that feel, too. It's kind of intriguing the way salt has become a visceral experience when I'm salting things.

Tammy 47:32

Well that's cool.

Holly 47:33

I actually today while we're recording this, I fixed a dish that our family prepared a couple of days ago. The main thing I did was add salt and it just made it so much better.

Tammy 47:47

So much better. Like salt makes food taste like it's supposed to. I feel like it just does it. Okay, I wanted to just bring this up because we have to talk about salt before we move into this next chapter. Go with me to Leviticus 2:13. Here's a very important component that had to be at sacrifices. Leviticus 2:13. KaRyn, hit it; you're our salt girl.

KaRyn 48:10

Lev 2:13 "And every oblation" (Ooo I like the word ablation)

Tammy 48:14

Isn't that fun? I know.

Lev 2:13 "And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt."

Mark "salt", but then specifically underline "the salt of the covenant". So offerings were to include salt, and it is referred to as "the salt of the covenant". And I want us to think about this because there is some intensely rich symbolism here. Salt is a preservative. And the meaning of it here is that the covenant will endure and not decay. Now, we're going to talk about one of the most important covenants that will never decay. We're going to talk about THE salt of the Covenant in Leviticus chapter 16. So let's turn there. Leviticus chapter 16. What is the covenant that will never decay, according to Leviticus 16?

Holly 49:11

The atonement.

Tammy 49:14

That's exactly it. This is the big discussion on the holiest day of the year called Yom Kippur.

KaRyn 49:21

Ah, I love Yom Kippur so much.

Tammy 49:23

Why do you love it KaRyn?

KaRyn 49:25

The High Holidays of the Jewish tradition are just so beautiful. They're so beautiful, and I really wish we had I mean, I guess we do - Christmas and Easter. But like, a whole day dedicated to atonement, I just think is really beautiful.

Tammy 49:39

It is.

Holly 49:41

I like the idea of a scapegoat, to be honest.

Tammy 49:44

Oh, now that's gonna be a fun discussion. Yes, yeah. Okay, hold that thought then. So here's what I want you to tell me because I did ask you to do this ahead of time. For those of you who are listening, just take a minute in Leviticus chapter 16 and circle every time you see the word atonement., Were either of you able to do that? Did you find how many times it says it?

KaRyn 50:01

I did not do my homework. And I

Tammy 50:04

You're the worst.

KaRyn 50:05

Oh, but Holly did her homework. She's better

Tammy 50:07

Of course Holly did, she's gettin' a PhD; she knows how to study.

Holly 50:11

I did. I had to go through it twice. And I found one that I missed the second time around, and I'm still not 100% sure, but I counted 14.

Tammy 50:19

Nice, very good. Okay. I got 15. So it's said a lot in Leviticus chapter 16. So many of you are probably thinking, what is Yom Kippur? Why are we talking about this? Why is it important? So let's do this. Leviticus chapter 16, bracket off verses 5-34. And write to the outside, "Yom Kippur", or 'Day of Atonement'. That's what Yom Kippur means. "Yom" means "day" in Hebrew. "Kippur" comes from the Hebrew word KAPHAR, which means "to cover", or "atonement". And that's what we talk about. We've said that many times on this podcast, that the meaning of the word atonement in Hebrew is to cover. And that's gonna be important in our discussion today. So just know that.

Now, I think what's so cool about this is the reason why it's the holiest day of the year is because just in case you didn't take care of your sins throughout the year, and you didn't ask for forgiveness for all of them, you maybe missed a few. On Day of Atonement, we're going to cover everybody. So everybody's sins are gonna get covered, and you're all gonna get forgiveness on the day of Yom Kippur. This is a major pilgrimage feasts, there's only four of them where people will actually come back to the main city, where they're going to practice and worship in this way.

Now here's what's cool, here's a couple of fun facts. You fast for 24 hours, you come to the tabernacle. On the day of the Atonement, Israel's high priest, he enters the Holy of Holies. And it's the only day of the year where he will actually say the name of the Lord. Both of you're shaking your head, tell me what you know about that.

Holly 51:47

It really puts an exclamation mark on how important the Atonement is. It is one really specific day. And I think maybe we miss out on that a little bit, because we don't honor the atonement maybe in the same way. I've done Easter dinner, I guess, maybe that's kind of the same thing when Christ was resurrected after His atonement. But I don't have a day where I have said, We're going to talk about forgiveness, and we're going to really focus on being one, even, and what that means as a family and forgiveness. And I've never done that.

KaRyn 52:25

I mean, one thing that we do have is the sacrament, right? Theoretically, that is our Yom Kippur, and it's every Sunday. I mean, that's the new order of things. But I'm with you, Holly, like I'm such a tradition, celebratory person that I love the idea of a holiday built around the atonement. And I don't think Easter is quite the same thing.

Tammy 52:48

When I'm thinking about Yom Kippur - I loved learning this - so it happens on the Jewish new year. It's really neat. This trumpet is blown. And the trumpet is blown loud and long. It's called a SHOFAR. It's a ram's horn and it blows loud. And it tells everybody, when you hear that at the new moon, when that happens, that is a warning to everybody. Okay? You have 10 days to organize yourselves until we go to practice Yom Kippur. So 10 days, everybody's gathering themselves, they're getting together. They then go in this pilgrimage feast, they go to the tabernacle where they will then on that 10th day, they practice this Yom Kippur experience.

Then after that, they have five days to get their families in order and build booths or huts where they will live together as a family in tents. This is the Feast of Booths that they practice

Sukkot, sukkot, sukkot!

Sukkot, yes.

I love sukkot!

And they'll live in there for seven days as a family giving thanks for the Lord for forgiving them and for helping bring the children of Israel out of Egypt. They remember that and what that experience was like. And I think it's so cool because if you wonder why Moroni has a trumpet in his mouth? This is the symbolism that shofar is blown saying, Get ready. And here's something really cool, is when that trumpet is blown, that is the symbol for 'it is the very end of the harvest'. The harvest is now going to be gleaned, it's the end of our season to grow. It's in the fall when this happens.

And now when you go to Doctrine and Covenants and you read in Section 4, "The field is white already to harvest? That's the symbolism there. How cool is this? September 22 when Moroni gave the plates to Joseph Smith, it happened on Rosh Hashanah. The trumpet was blown, you guys, Christ is coming! That's what that message was. And we have 10 days symbolically to get ready because Christ is coming - that is Yom Kippur. That is the Day of Atonement where He will come and forgive every one of their trespasses.

And one of the really cool special things that they do is what you mentioned Holly, so let's go into Leviticus chapter 16. And we're gonna mark some scapegoat verses it's verses seven through 10. We just have to read these verses and we're gonna talk about and then I want Holly to explain what she knows. So KaRyn, will you read verses 7-10. And then Holly, I want you to tell us some cool stuff.

KaRyn 55:05

16:7 "And He shall take the two goats, and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

8 "And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

9 "And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.

10 "But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness."

Tammy 55:32

Thank you. So part of the Day of Atonement observance included a scapegoat. Now, Holly, tell us what you learned.

Holly 55:39

Well, we still use the same word, which I find it super interesting. It's basically saying, K, we're gonna we're gonna pile everything on this literal goat and send it out into the wilderness, right? And it's just gonna take it all, take all the blame, take all the shame; we kind of use scapegoat in the same way, you know. We otherwise. Well, way back then they otherwised a goat.

Tammy 56:02

They otherwised a goat. Oh, that's funny. So this tell us what happened. They had two goats.

Holly 56:08

They cast lots to decide which goat was going to be the scapegoat, and which goat was going to be sacrificed. The one that was the sin offering would be sacrificed, but for the, for the scapegoat, it said, "presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and [then] let him go for a scapegoat in[to] the wilderness." (16:10)

Tammy 56:28

So the purpose of this whole scapegoat thing was to take the sins of the people and put them on the head of the scapegoat. And then the priest would send the scapegoat out into the wilderness, symbolically carrying the burden of our sins, and representing the sin being removed from us. But the debt of justice of our sins must still be paid. So the other goat that represents the Lord is the Atonement of Jesus Christ. It is the payment. The entire ceremony is trying to explain to the people how the Atonement of Jesus Christ works. It's where we have justice and mercy. I mean, how cool that we have this celebration, and I really like how Leviticus 16 ends. Look at verses 33 and 34. Holly, can you read those verses for us.

Holly 57:10

You bet.

16:33 "And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation.

34 "And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the Lord commanded Moses."

Tammy 57:33

And do you see the wording in there that includes salt, an everlasting atonement, and it will never decay? That's the beautiful promise about the atonement. So what is the Lord trying to teach us? Like, what can we learn from the Day of Atonement? What's He trying to teach children of Israel?

Holly 57:49

Well, certainly, from my perspective, he's foreshadowing His work as the Savior. And isn't it interesting, right, that it's made explicit. The Atonement is to cover everything and everyone. And it's done deliberately and purposefully. And I think that that's just really beautiful for us to be able to look backwards on and say, You know what? He was telling them what was to come and giving them a type and a shadow.

Tammy 58:20

Wow. Great, great connection, Holly. So that ends our discussion of Yom Kippur. And in the next segment, we are going to continue a conversation of more laws.

Segment 6 58:30


Tammy 58:30

Okay, let's jump right in to Leviticus chapter 19:2. And in verse 2, tell me: How does the Lord want the children of Israel to be? And by children of Israel I really mean us.

Holly 58:42


Tammy 58:43

Whoa, that's heavy, isn't it? Can we really be holy.

KaRyn 58:50

I have never looked up the word holy until today. And I'm a word person, so I find it very weird that I've never looked it up. And maybe other people have done this, too. Like when we talk about things being holy, I think of them as being perfect. This is a very rudimentary, like, quick look on Google. But it says that "it is dedicated or consecrated to God or religious purpose." I needed that. I don't feel like I'm a very holy person most of the time. But I do feel like I am dedicated to my God, I'm dedicated. And there may be parts of me that are still in process, but I can ascribe to Holy.

Tammy 59:31

I'm so grateful that you just taught us that because when you read that verse, it is overwhelming. "Ye shall be holy. For I, the Lord your God am holy." Yeah, ye shall be holy. We do, we're like, uhhhh. I know, all right, already. I gotta be perfect. And you just reframed that beautifully, ye shall be dedicated to me. Oh, I can do that. In fact, this is interesting that the word 'sanctify' or the phrase 'make holy' appears over 150 times in the book of Leviticus alone - 150! And so the whole purpose of the Levitical law is for us to be dedicated to God. That's all He wanted the children of Israel to do: just be dedicated and consecrated to me.

KaRyn 1:00:14

And this is important, because if you look at that reframing, I think now that you just said that, is really important because we kind of think about those laws of Judaism as Pharisetical on some level at this point. Like we can equate them to Pharisees. They were very, very clear, simple little rules. And so we might get in the mindset that to be holy, we have to ascribe to that kind of religiosity. When in reality, what we need is to choose to be dedicated to God and allow Him to teach us what that looks like for us.

Tammy 1:00:46

So let's do that with Leviticus 19, then. I asked you guys ahead of time to find all the ways the laws in Leviticus 19 help us to become dedicated or consecrated to God.

Holly 1:00:58

I want to start with the header, actually, because I think it just really encapsulates the whole thing. Be holy, live righteously, love your neighbor, keep the commandments.

Tammy 1:01:09

Oh, Holly, that is such a great way to start. Okay. I'm just highlighting that right now. So good. Okay, so what else? s just,

Holly 1:01:17

There are some things just, you know, right right off the bat: keep the Sabbath Day holy, don't make idols. And in our modern era, right, we're not usually melting down bowls to make little idols to put in the corner of our tent. But there's lots of other ways that we can have idols. One of the things though, that I think is interesting, as you start to get down into verses 9 and 10,

Tammy 1:01:37

I love those verses, everybody mark them,

Holly 1:01:40

They're thinking about the people who are poor, and they're commanded to not completely harvest everything off of the land, right? They're supposed to leave stuff for their neighbors. And I love that, I do love that.

Tammy 1:01:54

In fact, highlight it, put "law of harvest", and then I drew a picture. I drew a square. And then I drew a circle in the square. And that is what they're talking about. This is where we get the story of Ruth from. When she went and gleaned in the field, she was allowed to glean from the four corners. And that's what the law of harvest was, you were only allowed to glean from the circle part. If you owned the field. The four corners were left for the poor. So put "Ruth" next to those verses. You'll want that context.

KaRyn 1:02:20

Love that, I that

Tammy 1:02:21

Yeah. And then that's why he said to his servants, go ahead and drop some stuff, because anything that falls on the ground, also fair game. It's so fun. Oh my gosh, so good. Okay, anything else you came up with?

KaRyn 1:02:34

I'm a softie for refugee experiences, as we all should be. And I love in 33, where it says,

19:33 " And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, he shall not Vex him.

34 " But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God."

It's been a law of the land for a really long time. It's been a law of God for a really long time, that we open our hearts and our and our space to those who are different than us. And we treat them as brothers and sisters in every sense of the word.

Tammy 1:03:12

I know Holly's chomping at the bit to say something.

Holly 1:03:15

I'm actually hopping on a plane next week to go work with refugees in—

KaRyn 1:03:20

Are you going to Poland?

Holly 1:03:21

I am.

KaRyn 1:03:22

I'm so proud of you.

Holly 1:03:23

And I maybe even into Ukraine, we'll see how everything goes. But like you, right, my heart is drawn out. Things are just so hard right now. And there are always poor among us. There's always refugees among us. I mean, I think President or Elder Uchtdorf has multiple times noted that he was a two-time refugee. So again, the law of the harvest with the circle inside the square, we're commanded to take care of people who can't take care of themselves. Ruth, through no fault of her own was not able to take care of herself, and neither was Naomi. This law, because it was there, allowed them to feed themselves. And then of course, we know that through the law of kinship, she she was able to marry Boaz and become a progenitor for Christ.

KaRyn 1:04:15

In my kind of like mythical thinking of the Old Testament, I always think of that as the harsh gospel; like it's the harsh, the harsh God, the harsh whatever. I'm just reminded of that, as I think about the softness in those verses and the reminder to drop things, extra things, you know. I'm grateful for that reminder.

Tammy 1:04:35

And this discussion today is what we did, like we talked about at the beginning, KaRyn, we've kind of reinterpreted who the Lord is. And studying His words in the Old Testament - the only way to do it and to see that He is both. He, is He mean, can He be angry? Yes. Is He loving? Can He be love? Yes. And I love that Kerry Muhlestein taught us that He can be a warrior and He can be a peacemaker. And that's okay. And so there's so much beauty in these words and in the promises that come from them.

So, thank you to both of you. That's the end of our discussion. That is Exodus 35-Leviticus, all of Leviticus, Holy cow, so good. All right. So take a minute, gather your thoughts, and let's share what our takeaway was.

Holly 1:05:16

I have to share what I learned about the symbolism. Is it the shofar? Is that the horn?

Tammy 1:05:23

Yes, please do.

Holly 1:05:24

So I did not know that that was Moroni's trumpet. And I think it's so fascinating to me how God works in symbolism like that. And I look forward to the, hopefully, we're at the last few minutes of the 10th day. Because I'm ready for Jesus to come again.

Tammy 1:05:47

Oh, so ready! That's so great. Thank you, Holly. So good.

KaRyn 1:05:53

I think the thing that I'm going to take away from this discussion is, you know, I process as I talk, and so sometimes if I'm just reading the scriptures by myself, I can pick up a thing here or there. But sitting with you guys for the last, I mean, it takes a while to record these sometimes. Do we want to tell people that? Anyway, it's longer than the hour, it's longer than the hour that y'all hear. But sitting with you women talking about the things of God, I learned about wisdom.

That discussion, as we were talking, and we were processing through it, I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm learning something new about this that I couldn't have gotten if I, I mean, I'm sure I could have. But like, but like it comes faster. And it comes with more meaning when we're talking about the things that really matter with each other. And that's what I love about this podcast, Tammy. I love, I love that we get to gather and talk about the Word of God in a way that is so meaningful. And I know there are a lot of people who are listening to this right now who are by themselves. And I just want to say like, you're not really by yourself, like, like we're all in this together. So, I just think that's one of the beautiful things about podcasts. I know I'm a cheeseball about podcasts.

Tammy 1:07:05

Thank you, KaRyn. And for anyone who's wanting to know, KaRyn's the reason the podcast is happening. She's the person I presented the idea to four years ago. [This is perfect.] You were willing and wise hearted. It would have been so easy to have been like, Yeah, whatever, sister. But you weren't. You came back to that idea. You followed the prompting of the Spirit. You followed the inspiration and the revelation and look what came of it. We have this so awesome podcast.

And we certainly did not know that how, we certainly did NOT know the how, but here we are.

Oh, I didn't; I'd never listened to a podcast before and the Spirit's like, You should do a podcast. I was like, I don't even know what that is. I mean it's amazing how it works. So

KaRyn 1:07:37

pretty cool.

Tammy 1:07:38

Yeah, everyone, thanks to KaRyn.

My takeaway was when you taught us what the word 'holy' means. Because when I went back and read that verse of scripture again, "Be ye holy", I just immediately thought, Okay, shor. Shor. I will be holy, I can do my best. And that's where my sure comes in. You bet. I will do my best. Am I going to be holy all the time in every aspect of my life? Probably not. But I'm going to try. Oh, I'll try my hardest. And I think that's all the Lord asks. Thank you. Ladies. Thank you so much. This was

Holly 1:08:13

Thanks Tam.

KaRyn 1:08:13

Thanks, Holly.

Tammy 1:08:14

I Love you both.

KaRyn 1:08:15

So happy to see you both.

Tammy 1:08:17

Okay, we would love to hear what your big takeaway is from this episode. So if you haven't joined our discussion group on Facebook or Instagram, go do it. It's so great, because you can ask questions throughout the week and share things that I've asked you to share. Because I want to know answers. And I want to know what you're all thinking about what we've talked about today. And then at the end of the week, on a Saturday, we post a call for your big takeaway. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and let us know what you've learned.

You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on LDS On Monday, and it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, because that's where we're gonna have all the links to the references we used, the scriptures, more quotes that we didn't even get to use today, and a complete transcript of this entire discussion, so go check it out.

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Desert Bookshelf Plus Original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our incredible study group participants were KaRyn Lay, and Holly Richardson. And you can find more information about these friends at LDS on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Katie Lambert and me. It is recorded and mixed by Mix at Six Studios, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.

Thanks for being here, we'll see you next week, and you please remember you willing and wise hearted people, that you are God's favorite!

KaRyn 1:09:29

Here, this is a little "Star Biz" for you, ya ready?

(sings) "Well, your friends know what's right.

Tammy 1:09:37

Stop it. Stop it, no.

KaRyn 1:09:38

"and your friends know what's wrong.

"And your friends all know sometimes it's hard to choose.

"But the friend who helps you see where the choices will lead."

Tammy 1:09:55

Stop it.

KaRyn 1:09:55

"is the kind of friend you never want to lose."

That is Michael McLean as sung by a lounge singer.

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