3: “Come and Partake of the Fruit” (Jan. 13–Jan. 19)
Have you ever had a dream so vivid you felt like it was real? A dream so impactful you even wondered if maybe it was revelation from God? In this week’s Sunday on Monday study group, we’ll be studying Lehi’s revelatory dream in 1 Nephi 8–10 and learning how to distinguish between inspiration and indigestion.
Find full episodes of the Sunday on Monday study group here. Start your free trial of Deseret Bookshelf PLUS+ here.
Segment 1:
Question: Have you ever received revelation through a dream?
Dreams and visions dominate Lehi’s life:
- He is called by the Lord in a vision in which he sees Christ and the twelve (1 Nephi 1:6–14).
- In another prophecy, he foretells the Babylonian captivity, the ministry of the Messiah, and the preaching of the gospel to the gentiles (1 Nephi 10:3–14).
- Even the journey into the wilderness was commanded in a dream. . . .
In Dreams as Revelation by Mary Jane Woodger, Craig K. Manscill, and Kenneth L. Allford, we learn that a dream even more about the important role revelation in dreams.
Question: Why does revelation come to us in dreams?
Elder Parley P. Pratt quote: “In all dispensations, God has revealed many important instructions and warnings to men by means of dreams.”
He continued, “When the outward organs of thought and perception are released from their activity, the nerves unstrung, and the whole of mortal humanity lies hushed in quiet slumbers in order to renew its strength and vigor." Men and women may, ". . . recall some faint outlines, some confused and half-defined recollections, of that heavenly world and those endearing scenes of their former estate from which they have descended in order to obtain and mature a tabernacle of flesh." Their loved ones, “. . . then hover about them with the fondest affection, the most anxious solicitude. Spirit communes with spirit, thought meets thought, soul blends with soul, in all the rapture of mutual, pure, and eternal love."
"In this situation, we frequently hold communication with our departed father, mother, brother, sister, son, or daughter; or with the former husband or wife of our bosom.” Brother Pratt later added, "Blessed are they who forfeit not their claims to the watchful care and protection of, and communion with, the heavenly powers and pure and lovely spirits” (Parley P. Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1874), 122–125).
Segment 2:
Scripture: 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit (Joel 2:28-29). Compare with JSH 1:41.
About this scripture in Joel:
- Elder Maxwell said in the August 2002 broadcast to CES educators, “This is speaking of today. This is now. Teach this to your students.”
- President Henry B. Eyring declared in August 2004, “That scripture does not say that your sons and your daughters may claim the gift of prophecy by the Spirit. It says that they will. It doesn’t say that your young men may see visions. It says that they will. And it will come because the Lord will pour out His Spirit upon all flesh. Not only will the youth you love and serve have the Spirit poured out on them, but so will the people around them and those who lead them” (President Henry B. Eyring, broadcast to CES educators, August 4, 2004).
Guidelines for determining if visions and dreams are from God (from Dreams as Revelation).
- Strengthens Faith
- Align with Commandments
- Pertains to Spiritual Matters
- Followed by Spiritual Feelings/Manifestations
Segment 3:
Question: What do the symbols in Lehi's dream represent?
Large and spacious field: The world
Tree: The love of God
Fruit: Elder Neil Andersen in Oct. 2019 general conference quoting Elder Bednar, "This precious fruit symbolizes the wondrous blessings of the Savior’s incomparable Atonement. Not only will we live again following our mortality, but through our faith in Jesus Christ, our repentance, and our keeping the commandments, we can be forgiven of our sins and one day stand clean and pure before our Father and His Son.
"Partaking of the fruit of the tree also symbolizes that we embrace the ordinances and covenants of the restored gospel—being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and entering the house of the Lord to be endowed with power from on high. Through the grace of Jesus Christ and by honoring our covenants, we receive the immeasurable promise of living with our righteous family throughout eternity" (Elder Andersen, "Fruit," October 2019 general conference, churchofjesuschrist.org).
Rod of iron: The word of God
President Boyd K. Packer emphasized the rod of iron as the personal revelation and inspiration that come to us through the Holy Ghost. He said: “If you hold to the rod, you can feel your way forward with the gift of the Holy Ghost . . . . Grasp the iron rod, and do not let go. Through the power of the Holy Ghost, you can feel your way through life” (Elder Packer, "Lehi's Dream and You," Jan. 16, 2007, speeches.byu.edu).
River of water: The Depths of hell
Strait and narrow path: “Strait” can be defined as a specified degree of trouble or difficulty (see "strait" on dictionary.com).
Mist of darkness: The temptations of the devil
Great and spacious building: The pride of the world (See the cross-reference in Eph. 2:2.)
"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this aworld, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of bdisobedience:" (Eph. 2:2).
Satan is the prince of the air, he has no foundation. We need a foundation to be grounded, settled, and rooted.
"If ye acontinue in the faith bgrounded and settled, and be not cmoved away from the dhope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" (Col. 1:23).
4 groups of people or multitudes mentioned in Lehi's Vision: (also so Elder Bednar's October 2011 talk)
- They who had commenced in the path and did lose their way that they wandered off and were lost (v. 23).
- Those who were clinging (v. 24). Question: What comes to mind with this one?
- Those who press their way forward continually holding fast to the rod of iron until they came forth and FELL DOWN and partook of the fruit (v. 30). Question: Fell down, what do you think of this imagery? To me, it represents utter exhaustion.
- Feeling their way and drowned (v. 31-32).
Segment 4:
PROPHET: "A person who has been called by and speaks for God. As a messenger of God, a prophet receives commandments, prophecies, and revelations from God. His responsibility is to make known God’s will and true character to mankind and to show the meaning of His dealings with them. A prophet denounces sin and foretells its consequences. He is a preacher of righteousness. On occasion, prophets may be inspired to foretell the future for the benefit of mankind. His primary responsibility, however, is to bear witness of Christ" (Guide to the Scriptures, “Prophet," ChurchofJesusChrist.org).
This fits with the fifth Doctrinal Mastery, prophets and revelation (see Sunday on Monday lesson 2 or ChurchofJesusChrist.org).
We can see witnesses the definition of a prophet in action throughout the Old Testament:
Moses: (see Deut. 18:18-20)
Balaam
David: (see Psalms)
Isaiah
Daniel: (see Daniel 9:25-26)
Jeremiah (Lehi's contemporary)
Zechariah
Ezekiel
Haggai
Micah
Joseph Smith, who was prophetized of in the Old Testament by Isreal's son Joseph (see JST, Gen. 50:27, 30–31, 33).
Lehi also testifies of Christ in 1 Nephi 10:4, about 600 years before Christ was born.
Definition: Messiah—This name is the Hebrew equivalent of the Greek name "Christ," signifying “Anointed One” (See Acts 10:38, Christ was anointed by God).
Question: What is the difference between REDEMPTION and SALVATION? (See 1 Nephi 10:4-5)
Redemption: Carries the idea of paying the price necessary to bring a person or people out of bondage.
Salvation: Goes beyond freeing someone, it carries the assurance of further existence in which they can enjoy security and happiness (Richard D Draper, 1999 Sperry Symposium).
Question: What where some things Lehi shared about Christ in 1 Nephi 10?
1. Christ’s Baptism and John the Baptist
Scripture: 7 And he spake also concerning a aprophet who should come before the Messiah, to prepare the way of the Lord—
8 Yea, even he should go forth and cry in the wilderness: aPrepare ye the way of the Lord, and make his paths straight; for there standeth one among you whom ye know not; and he is mightier than I, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose. And much spake my father concerning this thing.
9 And my father said he should baptize in aBethabara, beyond Jordan; and he also said he should bbaptize with water; even that he should baptize the Messiah with water.
10 And after he had baptized the Messiah with water, he should behold and bear record that he had baptized the aLamb of God, who should take away the sins of the world (1 Nephi 10:7-10).
2. Christ's Death and Resurrection
Scripture: 11 And it came to pass after my father had spoken these words he spake unto my brethren concerning the gospel which should be preached among the Jews, and also concerning the adwindling of the Jews in bunbelief. And after they had cslain the Messiah, who should come, and after he had been slain he should drise from the dead, and should make himself emanifest, by the Holy Ghost, unto the Gentiles (1 Nephi 10:11).
Let’s refer back to the guidelines for visions and dreams that we discussed earlier, does Lehi’s vision fit the test?
- Strengthens faith
- Aligns with commandments
- Pertains to spiritual matters
- Followed by spiritual feelings/manifestations
Segment 5:
Quote: Elder Holland Christ and the New Covenant: “One writer has said of this extended symbolic portrayal, ‘One Jewish legend identifies the tree of life as the olive tree, and with good reason. The olive tree is an evergreen, not a deciduous tree -Its leaves do not seasonally fade nor fall. Through scorching heat and winter cold they are continually rejuvenated. Without cultivation the olive is a wild, unruly, easily corrupted tree. Only after long, patient cultivating, usually eight to ten years, does it begin to yield fruit. Long after that, new shoots often come forth from apparently dead roots. [The appearance of gnarled trunks gives] the impression of travail—of ancient life and renewing life.’ [Truman Madsen, “The Olive Press: A Symbol of Christ,” in The Allegory of the Olive Tree, ed. Stephen D. Ricks and John W. Welch (1994), 2.]
“As Lehi himself taught, no symbol could serve more powerfully and profoundly of God’s expansive, constant, redeeming love—including especially the love represented in the gift of his Only Begotten Son—than does the olive tree” (Elder Holland, Christ and the New Covenant, p. 163–64).
Definition: The house of Israel are the descendants of the Old Testament prophet Jacob, who was given the name Israel by the Lord (see Genesis 32:28; 35:10; see also Bible Dictionary, “Israel”). The Lord made certain covenants with Israel, and his descendants were considered God’s covenant people. However, generations later, many of them turned away from the Lord and were eventually scattered across the earth.
The term Gentiles in these passages refers to people that do not yet have the gospel (see Bible Dictionary, “Gentile”). Isaiah taught that in the latter days the Gentiles would be given the gospel and be instrumental in teaching and gathering the house of Israel (see 1 Nephi 21:22; 22:8–12; see also Isaiah 60; 66:18–20).
Segment 6:
“To those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, it is clear that the Father and the Son are giving away the secrets of the universe!” Nothing opens the heavens quite like the combination of increased purity, exact obedience, earnest seeking, daily feasting on the words of Christ in the Book of Mormon” (President Russell M Nelson, Revelation for the Church, Revelation for our Lives, April 2018 general conference).
Tammy 0:00
Are you a dreamer? Not like a daydreamer where you have these grand ideas or hopes, but do you have vivid dreams? Have you ever had a dream where after you dreamt you thought, "Hmm, that could land me in jail."
Or have you ever wondered if your dream was from God? Well, today we are going to talk about dreams and the divinity of dreams for you as we study first Nephi chapters eight through ten.
Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret Bookshelf PLUS+ original brought to you by LDS Living where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week and really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now if you're anything like me, and you're really busy, this podcast is broken up into six, ten-minute segments. So you can study your scriptures for 10 minutes a day, or if you have the time, sit and listen to the podcast all at once for an hour and then just ponder over the stuff that we studied all week long.
Something so fun about this podcast is that every week I get to have different friends come who have different perspectives and we get to study the scriptures. So this week I get to have my friends Jalyn Peterson and Aliah Hall.
Aliah 1:09
Hi.
Jalyn 1:10
Hey, friend. How are ya?
Tammy 1:11
Hi, good. I'm so excited to have you guys here. So Jalyn, I've known Jalyn for, like, 20 years. I mean...
Jalyn 1:18
It's been a while.
Tammy 1:19
It's been a long time.
Jalyn 1:20
It's been a long time.
Tammy 1:21
Yeah.
Jalyn 1:21
It doesn't feel like that long, though.
Tammy 1:23
No, but it's been a while. You've seen me through a lot of haircuts. A lot of different phases of life.
Jalyn 1:29
Let's say "hair growth" because the first time I met you, you said, "Look, we were never meant to have short hair."
Tammy 1:38
So we both grew it out where we got our master's. I looked like a third-grader. I did.
Jalyn 1:44
Aliah, I just met Aliah and she's already my good friend.
Tammy 1:47
Yeah. Oh, I'm so happy that you're with us.
Aliah 1:49
Me too. I'm really excited for today.
Tammy 1:51
Yeah, we're gonna have a good time. And if you're anything like me, you're probably very curious to know more about these women, and I like to have a face with information. So if you want to learn more about my friends just go ahead to our show notes at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. We'll have pictures and bios, and probably madeup stuff. Just kidding. Unless someone wants to amp up her bio.
Jalyn 2:12
Totes.
Aliah 2:13
Yeah, superhero extraordinar.
Jalyn 2:15
I like to keep it real.
Tammy 2:16
Aliah's a superhero. Okay, so this week we're studying first Nephi chapters eight through ten, and if you're thinking, "Yes! It's a short week." That there's not very much we're going to cover, I got news for you: we have so much to cover. It's only a couple chapters, but there's a lot in there. Okay, you ready ladies?
Aliah 2:34
Ready.
Jalyn 2:34
Ready.
Tammy 2:35
Here we go. We're going to talk about dreams and visions. Let's talk about dreams because my husband always jokes that if any of his dreams were actually prophecy or had to come true, he would be arrested and put in a federal prison.
Jalyn 2:48
I feel him on that.
Tammy 2:49
What are your thoughts about dreams?
Aliah 2:51
I have like two reoccurring dreams that are like terrifying. One is a flood dream and the other one is my all my teeth fall out.
Jalyn 2:59
Teeth fall out! I have the teeth fall out all the time!
Aliah 3:06
And there's so many of them, like a whole handfull.
Tammy 3:08
Oh, it's horrible.
Aliah 3:09
And then I'm like, "I don't even have this many teeth." Like that's what I think in the dream. Like, "I'm dreaming because I don't even have this many teeth."
Tammy 3:15
Do you think it means something?
Jalyn 3:16
Yes. I have looked the teeth dream up. It's a very common dream. It's just you're insecure about how you look. That's horrible.
Aliah 3:26
That is horrible. Why'd she tell me that?
Jalyn 3:27
I don't know because you're a stunning woman. Especially your eyes are so beautiful. You guys can't see that over the radio, but they're lovely.
Aliah
Well, thank you.
Jalyn
But the dreams I always have? I'm moving, and there's so much stuff and I never know what to do and no one's helping me, or like I'm washing dishes and they never end they just keep going and going and going.
Tammy 3:53
You're single.
Jalyn 3:54
I know, right? Like it's really just me. In fact, I don't even like to cook. You just throw that carton away.
Tammy 4:07
That's exactly it. That's the funny thing that you dream.
Aliah 4:10
Yeah.
Tammy 4:11
Okay. What if I told you that you actually have the ability to receive dreams and visions? That will be real.
Jalyn 4:18
I believe that for sure.
Tammy 4:19
Yeah?
Jalyn 4:20
Yeah, absolutely.
Tammy 4:21
I want you to think about that if you ever had experiences because this whole section, eight through ten, is Lehi's dream. If you go to first Nephi chapter eight, verse two and Aliah, will you read that verse for us, please?
Aliah 4:34
Chapter eight verse two: "And it came to pass that while my father tarried in the wilderness, he spake unto us saying, Behold, I have dreamed a dream, or in other words, I have seen a vision."
Tammy 4:45
What's so interesting to me about this verse is in studying biblical Hebrew, when he says, "I have dreamed a dream," or in other words, "I have seen a vision." That's a Hebrew literary device. It's a way they speak in the Hebrew language. We wouldn't say, "I dreamed a dream." What would you say to someone?
Jalyn 5:01
"Last night, I had a dream."
Tammy 5:03
Yeah, and in Hebrew, they don't own a dream. And so when you read that Lehi's saying, "I dreamed a dream," rather than saying, "Oh, I had a dream."
Jalyn 5:10
I mean, that's very fascinating to me that they didn't own the dream.
Aliah 5:14
Mmhmm.
Tammy 5:14
In fact, you know, Lehi would have known the scriptures. He would have been familiar with Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, and numbers. And in Numbers, chapter 12, verse six, it says, quote, "And he said, here now my words, if there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and I will speak unto him in a dream," unquote. Lehi knew that. Lehi knew his dream was from God, and that he had to act on it.
Aliah 5:41
Yeah, that's way different. Yeah, that really is. If somebody gave me my dreams, I'd be not that happy about it.
Tammy 5:44
Yeah, it was given.
Right. So when you think about some of the crazy dreams we have are like, "Where did, wait what, should I really put stock in that?" Here's some references and we're going to put these in the show notes, but there are so many different places in first Nephi where Lehi talks about how he was a visionary man and he had visions, he had dreams. In fact, he actually says to his wife in first Nephi chapter five, verse four, "I know I'm a visionary man," like almost apologetically, let's talk about that.
Jalyn 6:17
When I read through this, and I was listening to it in the car, even on the way here, the thing that I loved about it is that Lehi, he didn't just say, "Yeah, I'm a visionary man." The next part, he says, "I know I've been given a land of promise." They're in the middle of the wilderness right now. Sariah is complaining in that chapter about "you've lost my sons because you're a visionary man." And so he's like, "Yeah, I know that, but I've been given a land of promise." And they don't even like, they're not even there!
Aliah 6:44
That's so funny that's how you read it because I read it completely different.
Jalyn 6:48
It's so important because sariah saying like, "Oh, my boys are like, gone. They're never coming back. You sent them away." She is heart broken. heartbroken, like I'm there. I'm there with her. I've got her. Like, she is broken hearted. And she's like you sent my son's away, you did this. And instead of blaming God and saying, "No, God did this", or "God told me to," he takes complete ownership of himself, and of his vision, and of what's going on. And he says, I know that I'm a visionary man, and God has given me this vision. And I think that's so beautiful, because he doesn't like chastise Sariah at all. He doesn't say like, "why are you picking on me? Or like, I'm the Prophet? How dare you talk to me like this?" He like, just takes it and he says, like, "absolutely, I am a visionary man. And the Lord has given me this vision. And I know that our sons are coming home." And he just comforts her. And like, I just think that's so beautiful. Like, what a beautiful example of the husband wife relationship, like as a marriage therapist like I'm all about that. I'm like, what a beaut iful illustration of like, your spouse comes to you and they're like, "I am like, so angry with you, you did this or that and the other thing." And sometimes that's going to come in conflict with like, you know what the Spirit tells us or what we think we should be doing. And to just own that to like, own what the Lord has given us our gifts, our weaknesses or whatever, like to just own that.
Well, that's what I think he's really almost bearing his testimony to his wife right there to say, and that's why it's apologetic because he knows exactly how she's feeling. Like, "you're right and I am that, but I know we've been given a land of promise." He hasn't even seen the land, but he knows he's been given it. Like there's no doubt in his mind. We already know the end for him to say that, like, that's all gonna work out. But to be in that situation and just go, "I'm a visionary man, I don't know what the timetable looks like..." It's crazy to me to think in that moment, for him to say, "you're right."
Aliah 8:50
What's a promised land without your family? So he's not he's just telling her like, "Oh, we've got this land." and she's like, "I don't care about some piece of land."
Jalyn 8:58
Yeah.
Aliah 8:59
She's like, "I want my boys," like what is what is the promised land without your children? I think he's trying to reassure her like, the Lord has us like he's made us a promise. Not just a promised land, but the Lord has made us a promise and he fulfill it.
Tammy 9:16
Wonderful. There's such a cool quote by Parley P. Pratt, and it's a little bit long, but I think it might be worth reading. So, Jalyn, will you read this for us?
Jalyn 9:24
Yeah, absolutely.
Tammy 9:24
Because it's going to set it up for us in our lives, like, wait a minute, can we receive visions and dreams? So go ahead, you bet.
Jalyn 9:32
"Elder Parley P. Pratt explained that in all dispensations God has revealed many important instructions and warnings to men by means of dreams. He went on to explain that when the outward organs of thought and perception are released from their activity, the nerves unstrung and the whole of mortal humanity lies hushed in quiet slumbers in order to renew its strength and vigor. Men and women may recall some faint outlines, some confused and half-defined recollections of that Heavenly world and those endearing scenes of their former state from which they have descended in order to obtain, and mature a tabernacle of flesh."
Tammy 10:07
Okay, so just that right there is a lot.
Jalyn 10:10
That gave me chills, like that's amazing.
Tammy 10:12
Yeah. And this comes from the book called, "Dreams as Revelation." It just is a new book from Deseret book, and so I'm taking this from their book, but this next part really gave me chills so keep reading.
Jalyn 10:24
"Their loved ones, then hover about them with the fondest affection, the most anxious solicitude, spirit communes with spirit, thought meets thought, soul blends with soul, and all the rapture of mutual, pure, and eternal love. In that situation, we frequently hold communications with our departed father, mother, brother, sister, son or daughter, or with the former husband or wife of our bosom. Brother Pratt later added that blessed are they who forfeit not their claims to the watchful care, and protection of, and communion with, the Heavenly powers and pure and lovely spirits."
Tammy 11:01
So when you read that, let me ask you this question. Can your dreams be revelatory?
Jalyn 11:07
Absolutely, yeah.
Tammy 11:09
Have you had that experience?
Aliah 11:11
As she was reading that I was thinking of a particular dream that I've had over and over again, that I'm like, "Oh, that's what that means." Like how weird that I'm here and I'm thinking like, that's what that means.
Jalyn 11:26
Meaning that it means that like one of your departed ancestors is near you.
Aliah 11:31
No, that like, I've had this dream. And I'm like, "that's a weird dream." And then while you were reading that, what that dream's meaning for me, came to me.
Jalyn 11:41
Oh, you got the meaning of the dream. Wow.
Tammy 11:45
What was so fascinating about this moment right now, was that how oftentimes we get dreams, but we don't really know what it means until later, and you just got your later.
Aliah 11:54
I did.
Tammy 11:55
That is really incredible.
Aliah 11:58
I'm getting tearful.
Tammy 12:00
Why?
Aliah 12:01
It's just a powerful dream and it means a lot, like it's an answer to a lot of prayers that I've had lately. And now I know what it means. I know who sent it.
Tammy 12:12
I believe you. Wow. Thank you, Aliah. You know what, this is exactly what we've been talking about. We can receive revelation through our dreams, just like Lehi did. And you have that moment. In fact, in the next segment, we're going to talk about not only visions and dreams, but the purpose of visions and dreams.
Wow, we just had a really cool experience with Aliah in sharing her dream and what she learned from it. And now we're going to turn to a scripture reference that is going to show us how dreams and revelations apply to all of us today. Go to the book of Joel chapter two. This is a neat moment for me when I was teaching seminary, every year we would get to have a really cool meeting. And Elder Maxwell was speaking to us before he passed away, and he's talking about Joel chapter two. First of all, I don't even know that there's prophet named Joel, right? And there was a seminary teacher like, Joel, that seems like a nice guy. So he has us turn to Joel chapter two. And then he reads verse 28, out loud to us in the tabernacle. And so I'm going to read that verse to you. He says, "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy. Your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions." And I was like, "Oh, that's cool." And then Elder Maxwell said, and I wrote it in my scriptures at the very moment, in fact I put it my scriptures right here in August of 2002 at a seminary Institute, CES conference, Elder Maxwell said, quote, "this is speaking of today, this is now. Teach this to your students." And that just was like a thunderbolt to my heart because then I thought, "wait, dreams really matter?" I never had imagined in a million years that I could receive a dream or a vision. To back that up with one more witness, Elder Eyring in 2004 said this of that verse of scripture, "that scripture does not say that your sons and your daughters may claim the gift of prophecy by the Spirit, it says that they will. It doesn't say that your young men may see visions, it says that they will. And it will come because the Lord will pour out His Spirit upon all flesh. Not only will the youth you love and serve have the spirit poured out on them, but so will the people around them and those who lead them. So here's a question for you. How can you know if the dream is from God?
Aliah 14:41
As parents, or as stewards of this generation to make sure that, one that they need enough sleep. That's my mom moment. But that that they have the confidence that when they receive these things, because so much of their life is like virtual. So it's easy to think like, "Oh, my dreams are virtual too" like they're not real, it's just a game or it's just a cartoon or whatever it is. But to think like, "I have this power," I'm not saying this very well, but that our ancestors will come to us, and that they will come in dreams and that they will speak to our young people, and that it's important for us to believe them when they say like, "Hey, I had this dream." Or I think that this is what I'm supposed to do with my life, or this is what I'm supposed to be doing at this moment, that we don't shoo it away from them because then we we robbed them of just that.
Tammy 15:36
Well, and Aliah I like that you said to talk to our kids about this. I don't think I've ever had a conversation with my children where I'm like, let's talk about your dreams. What did you dream last night?
Aliah 15:45
To have that in a hippie way.
Tammy 15:47
Sadly. To have that open conversation like, dreams might matter. You might get dreams.
Aliah 15:53
Really, like my kids just come to me and they tell me like, "oh, I have this crazy dream," and I'm like, "I'm trying to brush your teeth." Ya know? I tried to make breakfast, and I'm like, "I don't have time for that." But I'm like, "Oh, I need to have time for that." Like, I need to like, stop and say, "Tell me about it. Tell me what, you know, what the Lord's trying to say to you."
Tammy 16:11
Because there's crazy dreams for sure. But then there's dreams that matter.
Aliah 16:15
Yeah, but we won't get them if you don't take the time.
Tammy 16:18
Right. And here we have this Old Testament scripture, Joel. And now we have Book of Mormon to back up the idea that yeah, dreams and visions are real. In fact, I like that later later, we're going to talk about Nephi's vision to back up what his father saw, and Nephi wasn't even a prophet at the time, he, he's this young guy..
Aliah 16:35
I love that part of the story, like we get into chapter ten, which is a little bit ahead of time, because his father is the Prophet and like, "this is what I saw. This is what we're going to do. This is where we're going to go," and Nephi, you know, he's a little bit of a goody goody, but he's like, hey, I want to I want to know for myself, he doesn't just take his, I mean, he takes his dad's word for it, but he also is like, "hm I want to know too."
Tammy 17:01
Yeah.
Aliah 17:01
And I think that's the power in the whole thing, is like, you think back to the Joseph Smith story too of like, he's seing angels, like how many angels are appearing to these people just in this first little, you know, the first ten chapters of the book? It's all about because they asked, like Nephi asked like, and he told us brothers, "you won't ask, so you don't know. And that's why, you know, you don't have the same faith, you know, building." So when you have those dreams, whether or not that's going to be something from God, or just, you know, I ate a crazy meatball sandwich last night or something. Like you ask of God, you're like, "what does that mean? Is that really something that I need to pay attention to?" And I think, you know, spiritually we can kind of discern the difference, but you definitely need to ask.
And I love that you brought Joseph Smith into this Jalyn, because I think that that's so important, like the foundational story of our church is that this young boy went into the wilderness and asked to know for himself, and then got up and like, went against everything that he had ever had before. You know, that everything, and so we have these two stories, we have the story of Nephi who is the son of a prophet who wanted to know for himself. And then we have this story of Joseph Smith, who also wanted to know for himself. You have these two stories of these boys who are very young, asking to know for themselves and oftentimes, I think with our young people, we tell them, like, just do what you're told, or just follow along, or just, you know, like, "believe me, trust me." We don't always encourage them to find out for themselves and then we have two very prominent stories within our doctrine that says that young people need to know for themselves.
Jalyn 18:41
But I do find too I have nieces and nephews that are, you know, their teens, their early 20s and I feel like they are way more inquisitive about like, needing to know. I was like, you know, whatever, I'll ya know, just going with life.
Tammy 18:55
That's incredible insight, incredible insight. So here's what I want to do. There's a litmus test for how you can know if dreams are from God. There's four things and I'm going to read them to you and as we move on to this next section and talk about the high stream, and even consider Joseph Smith's vision, does it fall within the guidelines of how you know if dreams are from God? So here's your litmus test for how you know if your dreams are from God: does it strengthen faith? Does it align with the commandments? Does it pertain to spiritual matters? And is it followed by spiritual feelings or manifestations? That's it. So think about that in context now of our next section, we're going to go into Lehi's dream.
Now listen, we have studied Lehi's dream since we were in primary. I feel like everybody kind of knows some of the signs, the symbols, different things like that. So we're not really going to go in depth to what everything means, but what I want to do is just kind of tell me a little bit about your thoughts of Lehi's dream. Maybe what you learned this time while reading.
Aliah 20:00
I thought that same thing when I found out what we were studying today, I was like, Oh, we've studied that to death. And so I really went into it trying to look at it from a different lens. Because in my life right now, I'm trying to like transition in all these different ways. So I was like, what can I get from these scriptures about transitioning or moving or like changing, you know, life circumstances. Then I really looked at it like, there was all these locations Lehi is in in history and he's in this jury place, he's in this open field, he's at the tree, people are in a building, and then I noticed as I was reading, that you had to do a thing to get from one location to another. So in chapter eight, verse four, he's in a dark and dreary wilderness, ten and six, he follows this man in the white robe, and that takes him to this spacious field, and then he prays, and that takes him to the tree. And so you see throughout chapter eight, where they're in one location, they do an activity, they follow somebody, they say a prayer, they clean or cleaved something, and then they transition to another location. So I really try to think about, like, how do we get from one place to another? And both spiritually and like in our lives?
Tammy 21:10
How does that help you in thinking about your own transitions?
Aliah 21:13
That I had to do something. I can't just think about it, I can't think my way out of the box, I have to like, do something.
Tammy 21:20
That's a great application to this dream because it takes it out of the box. Oo I like that. What about you, Jalyn?
Jalyn 21:26
Well, mine is just, I mean, nothing that cool. That was amazing. I'm gonna reread the thing. But mine was just more like how, how crazy like, you know, you have these crazy dreams. I mean, honestly, if you just read that, like, that's kind of crazy dream. Like, that's how your dreams are. There's no like, you look and then you're there eating the fruit. And to me, it's always, I don't know who did the painting that there's that beautiful painting of Lehi's dream. And so like I just always have the visual of the whole thing of how it kind of, you know, must have looked like to him. Just because I'm a visual learner, and that's kind of where my head goes.
Tammy 22:04
Thank you for sharing that. You know, the bummer is, we don't have enough time to really dig into what every single symbol means. So make sure you visit our show notes because I'll have them listed there because the symbols and then the representation are two separate, symbols are in the dream, what they represent is in Nephi's interpretation of the vision, so that's where those Connect. So what I thought was interesting was in first Nephi, chapter eight, verse 15, where it says, "it came to pass that I beckoned unto them. And I also say unto them in a loud voice." In my mind, I imagine Lehi being this quiet, demure, soft spoken prophet that speaks when he needs to, and the idea of raising his voice to beckon to his kids made me think, Wow, this, there's gotta be something important here that we need to know and we know everything in it, but this is what I felt like was important for something we've never really studied before. And so what we want to do is go in chapter eight, and we're going to just look at verses 23, 24, 30 and 31 through 32, because it talks about different groups of people or multitudes, and we're going to number them. My favorite thing to do is number things in scriptures. So if you have a pen, we're going to go to the verse and just put like a number 1,2,3,4, because there are four different people that are being talked about in this dream and the significance of them I thought was pretty incredible. So let's just start there. And can I have a volunteer? That totally was a seminary thing. Can any volunteer in the room? Okay, Aliah we're going to start with you. Will you just read verse 23?
Aliah 23:30
Yes. "And it came to pass that there arose a mist of darkness, a, even an exceedingly great midst of darkness, insomuch that they who had commenced in the path did lose their way that they wandered off and were lost."
Tammy 23:46
That's our first group of people. We're going to number these quickly and then come back and talk about them. So I need to be thinking in your mind of the symbolism or maybe thoughts about these groups of people. So that's our number one group. The second group is found in verse 24. Jalyn, why don't you read that?
Jalyn 23:59
Sure. "And it came to pass that I beheld others pressing forward. And they came forth and caught hold of the end of the rod of iron. And they did press forward through the mist of darkness, clinging to the rod of iron, even until they did come forth and partake of the fruit of the tree."
Tammy 24:14
Oh, and the next verse too I forgot 25.
Jalyn 24:16
"And after they had partaken of the fruit of the tree, they did cast their eyes about as if they were ashamed."
Tammy 24:22
That's our second group. And I think, look at verse 24, was there a word that stood out to you, an action word?
Jalyn 24:28
Clinging.
Tammy 24:29
Yeah, why?
Aliah 24:31
They're barely holding on.
Jalyn 24:33
Yeah, aspiration.
Tammy 24:34
I mean, that's amazing to me, that second group of people. The third group of people is found in verse 30. So let's go there, and I'm going to read it. "But to be short in writing, behold, he saw other multitudes pressing forward, and they came and caught hold of the end of the rod of iron. And they did press their way forward, continually holding fast to the rod of iron, until they came forth and fell down and partook of the fruit of the tree." To me, I'm imagining in My mind like, just so exhausted, like you just made it and then you fell and you, you're so tired, you made it to the end, and then you did partake of the fruit. That's the imagery in my mind I'm thinking, and then the last group of people, number four, is found in verses 31 and 32. Jalyn hit that for us.
Jalyn 25:18
"And he also saw other multitudes filling their way towards that great and spacious building. And it came to pass that many were drowned in the depths of the fountain and many were lost from his view wandering in strange roads."
Tammy 25:30
So here we have four groups that he sees, now give me some of your thoughts or impressions as we read about them.
Aliah 25:35
I thought about in 30, where you read "until they came forth and fell down and partook the fruit of the tree." And I thought when they fell down, like many times in the Scriptures, people fall down, and they're flying down out of like astonishment, not always all kind of exhaustion, but out of like, just gratitude. Like love Like, and I mean, they were holding fast so they probably were exhausted as well but like we talk about this spacious field being the world and so they have just gotten out of the world. And they are at that tree and it's the love of God, and they are falling down out of gratitude and love. And like, just, pure joy. They fell down, they're like, "yes, I made it, and I'm here and it's wonderful."
Jalyn 26:23
Here's what I thought. Even those people who are desperately clinging on eventually, sometimes you just feel like you're holding on by a thread. But they still kept clinging on and eventually, they made it there. You know, you think of those four groups of people. And I think at any time in our lives, we can be any part of any one of those groups, right? But you know, as long as you're trying to fill your way back there, to hang on to the Word of God, then, you know, it's possible to get there.
Aliah 26:55
Well, you see a similar thing in the New Testament in Matthew, where he talks about the parable of this sower and that there's like the four different kinds of ground that the seed falls on and I think that's what it kind of talks about and like one falls on a thorny and one falls like rocky and once like, magically great or something. I think sometimes we don't get to decide where we start on the iron rod, like we don't get to decide whether we're in a mist of darkness when we start or if we are clinging because we didn't know beforehand or if we already had our hands firmly on, but if we keep at it, you know, we can, we can get there. Like to not get discouraged. By, whatever, you know, soil you were planted in.
Tammy 27:39
I liked when you said we don't always get to decide where we are. That was pretty profound. I think sometimes as a culture, when we do or we see people who'd make poor choices, we automatically assign them to a portion of the dream, like well, that person great and spacious building. I mean, they have messed up and we don't allow for us to actually be somebody on the path. And when I was studying this, this was kind of interesting, go to verse 26, in first Nephi chapter eight, because there's some pretty interesting things about this great and spacious building that I think we can point out, it says, "and I also cast my eyes roundabout and be held on the other side of the river of water, a great and spacious building, and it stood as it were in the air high above the earth." There's a couple things about this that I found really interesting. The first is, it's a great and spacious building, and it's high in the air. Now, when you think about people we know and love, I don't know that we can assign them to that, because the interesting thing about this building in the air, means that there's no foundation. And so when you think about the foundation of the Gospel, Jesus Christ and all of our lives, especially in people who I love, I'm like they're going to be fine, they have that foundation and the great and spacious building didn't, but not only did it not have the foundation, but it's in the air and there's a really great cross reference that you can put next to verse 26. It's Ephesians chapter two verse two and when you read this, like when I read this, my mind was like, pff, it's also a footnote for down below. But Ephesians chapter two verse two, listen to this scripture, "wherein time passed, you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience." That's interesting that this great and spacious building is in the air and Satan has control. Isn't that interesting?
Jalyn 29:22
Yeah, that's fascinating.
Tammy 29:24
Tell me some of your thoughts, great and spacious building, air, all of that.
Aliah 29:28
Just when you were saying that, you know, when you said like, "oh, if it doesn't have a foundation," I think that's a judgment we also make on other people who we put in that great and spacious building that they don't have a foundation. It doesn't allow us to have empathy for them, because maybe they do have a foundation of why they're in that building. The building doesn't have a foundation, but the people may have a foundation and then we can come to them in empathy and in love and say, "hey, why are you in that building? Like what's going on with you? Hey, come over here back with me or with us." That's just what came to my mind. Like the building doesn't have foundation but the people in it do because though they are also sons and daughters of our Heavenly Father.
Jalyn 30:09
Mmhmm, that's interesting that you bring that up because I was thinking the same thing of like, they have a foundation but they haven't claimed it as their own foundation. They haven't come into their own of like, you know, I'm going to claim this as my foundation.
Tammy 30:23
Well, I'm like, I'm having these kind of like exclamation points above my head. Things are ringing because as you're saying that Jalyn, it makes me think right now the current push is to make sure that the foundation is Jesus Christ.
Aliah 30:36
Can I say one other thing? As you said that, not only are we trying to push that the foundation is Jesus Christ, but with the new home center church supported, we're trying to make sure that the foundation is the home and not the church. And so when people are like leaving the church, but people don't, I mean, people do leave home, but they hopefully they don't leave home. Ya know, they don't leave home. So Aliah, you and I will were having this conversation before we started recording about how people we know, who have been raised in the Gospel, and when they leave the Gospel suddenly it's free game it's like they had no moral compass, but you told me about your experience, and for you, you said being a woman of color in the church you didn't rely on like the culture, but your family, your family was like no we are Halls, this is what we do, like it was in the home where you completely got that.
Jalyn 31:27
I got the Gospel and the Spirituality from home not from church. I got knowledge from church doctrine from church but I got spirituality from home.
Aliah 31:36
And the foundation. It's not because you're a member of the church it's because we as Halls, we act this way. Yeah. Like your parents saying I don't care what group you belong to.
Tammy 31:53
With this discussion, I think we have to move to the next part. We know what Lehi's dream is about, but I think sometimes we overlook the crucks of his dream, which is found in first Nephi chapter ten. So we'll talk about that next.
So remember in last week's episode, when we talked about the nine doctrinal masteries, and I explained how in seminary today, there's nine basic doctrines that we believe in. So I think what's really cool about those nine doctrinal masteries, is that this part of the Book of Mormon is the doctrinal mastery that talks about profits in Revelation. If you were to meet somebody who was not a member of our faith, how would you explain prophet to them? What is a prophet?
Aliah 32:39
Good question.
Tammy 32:39
I know what do you say? Like why do you need a prophet? What's the point of a prophet?
Jalyn 32:44
I mean, the thing I'm thinking of even in the Book of Mormon, they reference back to the Bible to say, this is why we need to profit, like you guys don't remember we had Noah in the flood. Remember all this stuff God was able to do for those people? I think it was Nephi who would remind them like, don't you remember, like all these stories? We are always being guided. Look everyone's a Heavenly daughter or son and everyone has a homesickness, whether they kind of know that or not. Right? There's always that question of why am I here? You know, what's it all about? That's the homesickness. And I think a prophet, the seer, is someone who is being guided here on Earth, to keep us knowing, like, good wins out. Like, right will win, it may not in this situation, it may not always, but eventually, we know who wins the war. I just think of President Hinckley always saying in a sea of ever shifting and changing values, I think people feel that I think they want something to cling on to that's going to be not shifting and something they can hold on to. And I think the more polar it gets, the more people need someone who's going to say, "these are the values. So whether you believe in a prophet or not, most people believe in family. They believe in maybe even a higher power that's greater than us, controlling things. It's that homesickness that we all have knowing that there's something inside knowing there's more, there's better, we have to believe that to make it through.
Aliah 34:21
Not to make it light and fluffy, but I think we need a prophet for the same reason we need directions to build IKEA furniture, like you could probably figure it out, but it's gonna be a little bit wobbly.
Tammy 34:35
That's perfect!
Aliah 34:35
I think that's what the prophet does.
Jalyn 34:37
Can we get that in vinyl lettering on a piece of wood? We need to sell that.
Aliah 34:40
No, seriously. Can it be that IKEA guy that's just plain, like just silhouette.
Jalyn 34:46
You could probably figure it out.
Aliah 34:48
You know, like, I think a lot of people do. You know, people, I think people always say like, "oh, I don't know what I would do without the gospel. Like, where would I be?" I'm like, "I know where I'd be." And you're like, "oh, I don't know how people get through these trials without the gospel." They do like, yeah, you would figure it out, and you would figure out how to build your IKEA like double wide shelving system or whatever. But it'd be a little bit wobbly.
Tammy 35:12
Yeah. Well, it's it's kind of fun to use the Church website's definition, you can type in words like a definition. So I typed in prophet. It's a really great definition, but I will just read what it said at the very end. "His primary responsibility, however, is to bear witness of Christ." That's the point, and that is exactly what Lehi does in first Nephi chapter ten. He gets done with his vision, but then we get his vision of Christ, and go to first Nephi chapter ten. We're just going to read verse four, and five, and we're going to mark a couple things. Who would like to read, there's four and five.
Aliah 35:44
I can read it, but as long as there's not words like "mist." "Yea, even 600 years from the time that my father left Jeruslam, a Prophet would the Lord God raise up among Jews, even a messiah or in other words, a Savior of the world, and he also spake concerning the prophet and how great a number had testified of these things concerning this Messiah, of whom he had spoken, or this Redeemer of the world."
Tammy 36:11
In my scriptures, I marked the word "Messiah," I marked the word "Savior," I marked the word "Redeemer." I mean, here he is prophesying of him using words that they're familiar with. We've got the word Messiah, in Hebrew, Messiah means "Anointed One," and a great cross reference for that is Acts chapter ten, verse 33, where it says that the Savior was anointed. And then you have the word "Savior." We've talked about that meaning, we've talked about "Redeemer." And I think what's neat is that the two things he is in these verses, he is our Savior, and he is our Redeemer, receive salvation and redemption from Jesus Christ. I want you to think about these two words "redemption" and "salvation," because redemption carries the idea of paying the price necessary to bring a person or people out of bondage. And the word "salvation" goes beyond freeing someone, it carries the assurance of further existence in which they can enjoy security and happiness. So redemption and salvation are not the same. So we'll look at that again. redemption again, carries the idea of paying the price necessary to bring people out of bondage, but salvation goes beyond freeing someone. It carries the assurance of a further existence in which they can enjoy security and happiness. Why do you like that?
Aliah 37:22
Because this is how my mind works. I'm like, "what are we going to do for eternity?" I'm like, I don't know if I want to sign up for that because I'm kind of lazy. It seems like a long time, it's forever.
Jalyn 37:37
And so that he's not just saving us. You know, he's not just redeeming us. He's like, providing for us for a way to be safe and secure and to learn and to grow. Like, it's not just dropping us off and being like, "well, here you go, like knock yourself out." Like he's like, "I'm going to take you all the way through, like I'm not going to leave you."
Tammy 37:57
That is beautiful. So let's do what we said we're going to do earlier, let's go back to the guidelines, the litmus test for dreams. And let's see if Lehi's dream falls in the category of all four of these. Did his dreams strengthen our faith? Does it align with commandments? Does it pertain to spiritual matters? And did it follow, or was it followed with spiritual feelings or manifestations maybe from us?
Aliah 38:18
I'd say absolutely. It fits all four of those.
Jalyn 38:21
And what's cool about it is it's not just for him, but it does it for all of us.
Tammy 38:27
Yeah, right.
Jalyn 38:28
Like I think our own personal dreams will do that, but clearly he's the Prophet because his dreams actually apply to all of us. So yeah, it absolutely did all that.
Tammy 38:37
Excellent. It did. And it's real. And so that vision, that dream, is absolutely from God. Now he's going to talk to us about an olive tree. And it's not the Jacob five allegory, which we'll talk about much later, but he's going to then talk about the children of Israel and the Gentiles. We're going to talk about that next and what the olive tree has to do with redemption and salvation.
Okay, I'm going to show you guys a picture of an olive tree and what I want you to do is discuss what you're seeing. Not Olive Garden, not what you're feeling like you want to eat.
Aliah 39:15
How good are those breadsticks though?
Jalyn 39:20
Can we have a division of a breadstick?
Tammy 39:22
Okay, tell me what you're seeing.
Jalyn 39:24
I mean, honestly, it's not that great looking when, as opposed to tall trees. Like it looks a little straggly, but it also looks like, I mean, it's a survivor. Right? It's tenacious.
Aliah 39:38
What I know about Olives, I'm looking at this picture and what I know about all olive trees is they live for a very long time. That tree looks like it's been around for a very long time.
Tammy 39:49
What do you know about its branches? Describe it.
Aliah 39:52
Oh I don't know anything about their branches. I just know they live for a really long time.
Jalyn 39:55
I know you can grass them in and grass them out, and cut them up and do some crap with them.
Tammy 40:00
A lot of stuff can be done with olive tree huh? According to Jacob five, we're not going to talk about that, but I think it's interesting that Lehi is going to compare the children of Israel, the house of Israel actually, and Gentiles to an olive tree. And this is in chapter ten. And he does this in verses 12 through 14. And I think it's just worthy bringing up because oftentimes when we read this, we gloss over it because we're like, "olive tree, oh, the allegory." And it's really important that we understand the point and purpose of this. So there's a great quote by elder Jeffrey R. Holland in his book, "Christ in the New Covenant." And I just want us to read this quote, because it really helped me understand the purpose of why he uses this allegory. So Jalyn, do you want to read that quote for us?
Jalyn 40:41
Yeah. "One writer has said of this extended symbolic portrayal. One Jewish legend identifies the tree of life as the olive tree and with good reason. The olive tree is an evergreen, not a deciduous tree, its leaves do not seasonally fade nor fall. Through scorching heat and winter cold they are continually rejuvenated. Without cultivation, the olive is a wild, unruly, easily corrupted tree. On the after long patient cultivating, usually eight to ten years, does it begin to yield fruit. Long after that, new shoots often come forth from apparently dead roots. The appearance of gnarled trunks gives the impressions of travail, of ancient life and renewing life. Elder Holland was quoting Truman Madsen."
Tammy 41:26
This is kind of cool because he says, "as Lehi himself taught, no symbol could serve more powerfully and profoundly of God's expansive constant redeeming love, including especially the love represented in the gift of his only begotten Son then does the olive tree." So when we talk about the olive tree, I think what we really need to understand though, is the definition between Gentiles and House of Israel. And so, really this is important to know because the Gentile passage refers to anyone who's not yet received the Gospel, and the House of Israel, what we need to know about that is that it's the descendants of the Old Testament prophet Jacob who was given the name Israel by the Lord. But it's cool because when you get your patriarchal blessing and you're assigned one of those tribes, you're adopted into the house of Israel. Because I remember as a kid whenever I would read house of Israel, I would automatically think of a house in Israel, but some guy lived in. I had no clue. Who's the guy's house and who's living in it? And is it a big house? What are we talking? And so when I finally figured out, "oh, House of Israel is me? Oh, okay." It's a game changer, because you're going to hear House of Israel hundreds of times in the Book of Mormon. And it's important for kids to know because when you hear your ears should perk up, and they should go, "oh, I'm part of that house" And then the Gentiles are people who are still waiting to join.
Jalyn 42:37
Yeah, it's a house of something.
Tammy 42:40
So in order to continue on in the Book of Mormon, I think it's important to know the purpose of the olive tree and the symbolism of it, but then our role and why we're applied to, we're going to get really into that and Jacob chapter five, but I'm just curious what, what tribe you guys from?
Jalyn 42:55
Ephraim
Aliah 42:56
Also from Ephraim.
Tammy 42:57
Wow, that's awesome. It's kind of fun I had a student one time and I asked him that, and he's like, "Ephraim, like everybody else." And I was like, "no, it's Ephraim like everybody else, because Ephraim is the tribe that gets to prepare for the second coming of Chirst."
Jalyn 43:10
Christ is coming!
Tammy 43:11
Slowly coming...
Jalyn 43:12
Wait, wait question. So, I mean, you were talking about redemption and salvation and the difference there. And then why the olive tree is a good representation of the differences of those words.
Tammy 43:26
Oo, let's talk about that.
Jalyn 43:27
Yeah, I don't, I didn't get the tie in there.
Tammy 43:29
Thanks for reminding me. I think that's a good question. How does redemption and salvation apply to this idea of being an olive tree? Well, and when I look at this cool definition, and I think about how we were redeemed and were saved in the happiness, I love it after a long patient cultivating, like the amount of effort it takes for this tree to be successful, and what the Lord does for us, and that it doesn't even begin to yield fruit for eight years, and how the Lord in his redemptive efforts and in his salvific efforts for us. Isn't that a great word? salvific. I know I sound really smart.
Jalyn 44:08
Spell it!
Tammy 44:09
S-a-l-v-i-f-i-c. I have an uncanny ability to spell restaurant. R-e-s-t-a-u-r-a-n-t. Okay anyway.
Aliah 44:15
We have a spelling bee champ right here.
Tammy 44:18
I totally was too. It's just neat to think that after the all of that, it will still yield fruit, that happiness no matter how long it takes, and no matter how dead the tree looks, it can still be saved.
Jalyn 44:29
But what part of that is the redeeming versus the salvation?
Tammy 44:34
I don't know. Tell me what do you think? I think it's a great discussion to have.
Jalyn 44:38
Well, I guess the redeeming because you're saying that that is paying the price to bring them out of bondage.
Tammy 44:45
The slow, the careful, cultivating.
Jalyn 44:48
Cultivating, yeah. And then the actual and then it says, "long after that, new shoots come forth from apparently dead roots." So it has the eight to ten years of the redemption and then salvation is the fruit. And then new shoots come forth.
Tammy 45:04
Yeah, carrying the assurance.
Aliah 45:07
I think like if I had a tree in my yard, because that's how I think, that didn't do anything for eight to ten years, I'd probably cut it down.
Tammy 45:15
Absolutely. You're done.
Aliah 45:17
Yeah, it's like mm it's not very pretty. It's not yielding any fruit. It's gone, bye. I don't have room for that. But the Savior doesn't do that. The Lord who has a vineyard, knows his garden, he knows his garden, and he knows how long each of us takes to grow and to ripen and to bring forth fruit. And so he is a patient. He is patient, and he knows us. And he knows that even though we're not very pretty, and we're not yielding fruit. And we're probably taking up space, that if he just keeps at it, and we keep at it, that it'll be beautiful. And we'll get like olive oil, and those ones with the red things in the middle and all the things that are yummy.
Tammy 45:57
Well and how happy when your tree yields fruit. I get so excited every time in the season when the garden starts and the kids do, oh my gosh, they can't wait to go out and pick the fruit, and there's happiness around that.
Aliah 46:08
I made peach ginger jam this year with the peaches in my backyard.
Jalyn 46:13
You know what else I think of? Not to discount your peach ginger jam, I sure wish I had some right now.
Aliah 46:19
I still have some in the freezer.
Jalyn 46:21
Okay, I'll be over. Is that how you were talking about, you know, oftentimes we judge people that have wandered off into strange paths, or the people in the large and spacious building and like oh they you know, of course they're there.
Aliah 46:33
There are olive trees that are ugly and not yielding fruit.
Jalyn 46:35
Exactly, like how much more we need to not judge where they're at in that path. And how much cultivating we probably need to do to help them in whatever way.
Aliah 46:48
And help ourselves.
Jalyn 46:49
Yes, help ourselves.
Aliah 46:50
I mean, I think as women in this kingdom, we are often very patient with other people. We can be judgy about people in the building and about our olive trees and all this stuff, but it also applies to us. Somtimes we put ourselves as the olive tree or we put ourselves like, "oh I'm in the great and spacious building because I'm not doing it right." But we need to be patient with ourselves and let the Lord do his work.
Jalyn 47:17
Yeah, cause it could take seven or eight years.
Tammy 47:25
So in context of Lehi's dream, alright, so here we have this vision, and in two chapters, think of all that we've learned right here. Then we get to go into Nephi and he kind of interjects his own thoughts. So we're going to talk about those thoughts and maybe some of our own thoughts.
So let's go into first Nephi, Chapter ten. And we're going to look at verse 17 through 19. This is where Nephi then interjects and goes, "now, I'm going to write some things, I just told you what my dad had a dream about." And remember at the time, he's a kid, so think of yourself as this young, whatever, and you just heard everything that your dad said and now here's what Nephi has to say. So if you go into the very middle of verse 17, it says, "I Nephi was desirous also that I might see and hear and know of these things by the power of the Holy Ghost, which is the gift." So he talks right there that you need the power of the Holy Ghost. Then in verse 19, it says, "For he that diligently seeketh shall find," but right before that, in verse 18, he talks about repenting. Gift of the Holy Ghost diligently seeking and being repentive, is what's going to allow for him now, to see what his father saw. It's going to allow for him to come to the Lord and say, "now give me this experience." So I want you to kind of think about that in context of visions and dreams. And we talked earlier that, yes, we are entitled to visions and dreams, but is there something we need to do to get those visions and dreams? I don't know. Like this is what I'm wondering.
Aliah 48:55
Well we know that before Lehi receives this dream, like the boys had just come back, I call them boys, the boys had just come back from Jerusalem and gotten the plates, you know, in the chapters before this, Lehi is like pouring through the Scriptures. He's like reading them. I think he says it a couple times, like, "I read through the Scriptures," and then Nephi said, "Well, my father was pouring through the Scriptures," and so before Lehi got this vision, he was pouring through the Scriptures, and now Nephi is saying, like, "these are the things you have to do to get the vision." And so they're both in their own way, saying, "these are the things you need to do to get dreams and visions."
Jalyn 49:29
He says, "diligently seeking," in 17 and 19. And I think it goes back to you know what you were saying, like to teach our kids to have that for ourselves. You can't understand the voice of the Lord if you don't know the voice of the Lord. So if you haven't been, you know, reading that language and knowing that and knowing how God speaks to you personally, taking the time just to be quiet and sit still and know what that's like, you're not going to understand. I mean, I could have probably had a million of those dreams by now and I'm like, "what," I don't know I was just washing the dishes all night.
Tammy 49:35
To be in a place where you can receive it, that's really important. When we're talking about being able to receive these visions. Nephi specifically says that he wants to receive the mysteries of God. Because if you look in verse 19, "for he that diligently seekth, shall find, and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them by the power of the Holy Ghost." Then if you go and watch, it's worth watching in the 2018 General Conference, President Nelson, in his, I think it was the last talk he gave of that General Conference, he quotes Elder Maxwell and he kind of does this cute smirk like he kind of laughs when he says this, so it's totally worth watching. It's so cute. Imagine him smirking and then he says, "to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, it is clear that the Father and the Son are giving away the secrets of the universe."
Jalyn 50:44
I think I love that.
Tammy 50:46
And then he kind of smiled at the end of that. And then he says, "nothing opens the Heavens quite like the combination of increased purity, exact obedience, earnest seeking, daily feasting on the words of Christ, and the Book of Mormon." It's just what you guys said. And the prophet's backing that, well we're backing the prophet, but you know, it goes is this law of witnesses that this is truth? And that's exactly what Nephi has done. And we'll get to do in first Nephi chapter 11. Just this pattern. So here's my question to you guys, what mysteries do you want to have revealed? Are their mysteries you want to know?
Jalyn 51:18
That is such a great question, because some of them I think, "no, no, I'd rather not know." But I was thinking like, how, when God needs something to be done, he's sending angels, he's doing these visions, he's doing all of that, and how profound it is that then there's prophecy that says, "all the kids, all you young generation now, they're going to be prophesying, they're going to be doing those things. And how much of that I wonder, that we miss, because we're thinking like, "oh, some angelic form" And I think we write it off as to some other experience and we don't trust our own intuition, that that's what's happening. I mean, the mystery of God that I would want to know...
Tammy 52:01
Like is there anything you're unsure of? Is there something you want to know more about as a doctor and get a testimony of?
Aliah 52:08
I wish I was like a big thinker like, "oh, the mysteries of the universe." But I'm like, "what am I doing?"
Tammy 52:14
Yeah, that's what I want to know myself.
Jalyn 52:19
Like you put this line in my patriarchal blessing, what do you really mean about that?
Tammy 52:25
In fact when I was in the thick of being single I was 30. And I said to you, "my patriarchal blessing says I'm getting married." And you said, and I quote, "you don't still believe that thing do you?" And I said, "it's right here, it says it's happening." But like, you pray for something for so long...
Jalyn 52:42
And look who's married and look who's not Tam, let that be a lesson.
Tammy 52:48
Or maybe have you ever had an experience where you did have something revealed to you? Did you have a mystery made known or solved?
Aliah 52:54
I think I've had lots of like things made known but just because you know what they are, doesn't mean you know how to get there. And I think that that's the beauty of the Scriptures. That's the beauty of prophets. That's the beauty of revelation is because it doesn't just tell you where to go, if you are diligent, if you are studying, if you are praying, if you are repenting, it won't just tell you where to go, it will tell you how to get there.
Tammy 53:19
Yes. Well, and earler Aliah, you had this experience. You had a mystery.
Aliah 53:25
I did. Thank you for that.
Tammy 53:27
And unexpected, but you came prepared. You came prepared for this discussion today, and it is proof that Nephi's basically recipe for having mysteries revealed, worked.
Aliah 53:36
Well, I think it's so beautiful because the Lord provides new like me, like, if you bring it he'll bring it.
Tammy 53:42
Well, that was so much we just, I mean, we thought, oh, three chapters, pff, I mean, there's a lot in there. So, with everything we talked about today, here's what I want you to tell me, what's your takeaway?
Jalyn 53:54
Pay attention to your dreams.
Aliah 53:57
Pay attention. That's it. Just pay attention.
Tammy 54:02
Now, that was mine. And that everyone's entitled to receiving visions and dreams, and the Lord wants to give them to us, it's in Scripture. That's what I like about that. Well, Jalyn and Aliah, thank you so much for hitting the books with me and for digging into these scriptures. This was such a fun day.
Jalyn 54:17
It was awesome, thank you.
Aliah 54:18
Thank you.
Tammy 54:18
Yeah, I really love that. And for those of you listening, tell us what was your big takeaway from this week? Because every Saturday on our Facebook and Instagram account, we are going to share a post asking, "what was your takeaway? What did you learn from the scriptures this week?" So go to ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday, where you'll find links to our Facebook and Instagram account and share with us what you learned. I'd love to know what your takeaway was. And if you joined us this week, and there's a reference you're not sure about, or there's a quote you heard and you want to read more, make sure you visit us at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday, where you'll see all of our show notes as well as a complete transcript of this episode. And make sure you join us next week because I'm going to have two new friends, and we're going to dig into the scriptures again. This time we're going to study Nephi's dream, and it's gonna be awesome. And remember, you're God's favorite. See you next week.