39: “Comfort Ye My People” (Isaiah 40–49)

Tammy 0:00

This past summer my daughter attended girls' camp and she was experiencing separation anxiety of epic proportions. So this girl's camp leader that she had noticed that many of the other girls were also having the same experience. So she had a special meeting for the girls. The leader asked them, what brings you comfort or peace. And my daughter said, "When I hug or see my mom", which is so nice, because I thought for sure she'd say ice cream. So I want to know, what brings you comfort or peace? Today's study of Isaiah 40-49 marks the beginning of a different tone in our study of Isaiah, and the focus is on comfort and peace.

Tammy 0:35

Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now if you're new to our study group, I just want to make sure you know how to use this podcast. So follow the link in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study, just like my friend Angie Falslev. Hi, Ang.

Tammy 0:58

K now, here's my favorite thing about the study group. Each week, we're joined by two of my friends, but sometimes we're only joined by one. And today I get to have one friend and I purposely chose one friend. We are having a return guest and our Passover expert, Chelsea Hayden. Hi, Chelse.

Chelsea Hayden 1:13

Hey, thank you for having me back.

Tammy 1:15

Oh my gosh, thank you for coming, I'm so excited! Yeah. So Chelsea knows Hebrew and she knows all things Passover. Many of you remember the Passover episode. Many of you even bought her Passover kit, which I highly recommend. So if you are wondering, Oh, yeah, how do I do Passover with my family? You can read Chelsea's bio and there will be a link in there that you can click on to find "All things - Chelsea Hayden" and I highly recommend it. And you can find that information at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. Okay, Chelse, you ready to do this?

Tammy 1:15

I am so ready. I feel like a kid at Disneyland.

Tammy 1:15

It's just you and me. You're in for a real treat. So grab your scriptures, your scripture study journal and something to write with, and let's dig in. Okay, so Chelse, I want to know, how would you answer the question, What brings you peace? Or comfort?

Chelsea Hayden 2:00

Well, first off, I really appreciate that you say what brings me peace? and not how do I feel peace or comfort? Because we don't always feel the spirit or comfort or peace, especially if you have mental illness. And so I really appreciate that you brought in that, because sometimes it can come as thoughts or things through other people. It doesn't have to be a feeling. But to answer your question, so comfort for me comes from a lot of places: it might be a hug, it might be something someone says to me, or a certain song that I hear on the radio that's just the perfect thing, or chicken noodle soup when I'm sick and it's raining outside. That gives me all of those feelings of comfort and familiarity. And of course, I can get those from the Lord as well.

Chelsea Hayden 2:43

But peace on the other hand, I feel like, only comes from the Lord. And that comes from knowing that He is aware of me, knowing that I am on the right path, knowing that He knows the end from the beginning, and that everything is going to be okay in the end. And so when I do the things that He's asked me to do - reading my scriptures, spending time with my family, saying my prayers, going to the temple - those types of things recenter me on Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father, and then bring me that peace from Them.

Tammy 3:16

Chelsey, thank you so much for connecting peace to Christ. In fact, when you said that, I felt in my heart that what you said was true. You're absolutely right. Because listen, I can find comfort in a nice bowl of homemade mac and cheese, let's be clear. But peace does come from Christ. And I think it's so beautiful how the tone does shift in our, all of our lessons of Isaiah. Up to this point we have learned Second Coming's scary, and as last week we talked about how it's scary and scarring. But now we have this shift. In fact, let's go to Isaiah 40:1. We have to look at this verse really quick, because Chelsea, what's the very first word that starts out this whole lesson today?

Chelsea Hayden 3:52

Comfort.

Tammy 3:53

There it is. It says it twice in verse 1: "Comfort ye, comfort ye my people." And I thought this was interesting because in Hebrew, that word 'comfort', the way that it's translated, is it's a verb, but it's in the command form. Like, it's not like, If you want to feel comfort, go ahead. It's "Comfort ye". Like, you be comforted. I'm gonna give you comfort. Isn't that so cool?

Chelsea Hayden 4:14

Oh, I Iove that, you know. That makes me think that this is something that not only we can hope for, but something we can expect that we will get.

Tammy 4:26

Absolutely. And that's what Isaiah's saying to his people. And then as we've learned, Isaiah is multi-layered; he's saying it to us. I really appreciate the way the Come, Follow Me manual starts out this whole lesson for this week and I want us to read this paragraph from the Come, Follow Me manual. Chelsea, will you read this for us, please.

Chelsea Hayden 4:42

Absolutely. "Isaiah 40 marks the beginning of a different tone, a different emphasis in the prophet's message. Where Isaiah's earlier writings warned Israel and Judah about destruction and captivity that would come because of their sins, these later prophecies were meant to comfort the Jews over 150 years in the future - after Jerusalem was destroyed, the temple was desecrated, and the people were taken captive by Babylon. But these prophecies reach even further into the future than to the defeated disheartened Israelites. They speak to us, who also sometimes feel defeated, disheartened, and even lost."

Tammy 5:21

Thank you, Chelsea. I want to know - I love that line at the end for those who feel defeated, disheartened or even lost - is there a specific verse of scripture in these chapters that have helped bring you comfort when you have felt that way?

Chelsea Hayden 5:35

You know what? I really love Isaiah 41:10. Okay, this is one of my favorite scriptures. I even have a lullaby that I listen to at night that uses these words, because it just re-centers me on the Savior. It's beautiful. But this is what this verse says:

Chelsea Hayden 5:51

"Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness."

Chelsea Hayden 6:07

And I really love that the Hebrew word for 'dismayed' here, means to look away, like looking away in anxiety, looking for help.

Tammy 6:16

Oh my gosh.

Chelsea Hayden 6:17

And I feel like that is me sometimes, whether I'm looking to outward people or wondering why the Savior isn't giving me the help that I need. I look around in anxiety all the time, I feel very dismayed. And He promises that He will help us, He will uphold us. And that word in Hebrew means 'to grasp', to support, to hold, to actually hold. He says, I will hold you, I will be with you. And "I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness." And we can talk about hands later and the significance there, but I love the power and the peace that come to me when I read that scripture.

Tammy 6:51

Oh my gosh, I marked so many things in that verse, Chelsea. I circled the word 'hold' where it says 'uphold'. I like how you said, I will hold thee with my right hand. Okay, that is so awesome. Wow. Thank you for sharing that verse. Well, for anyone who's feeling those feelings, take comfort in Chelsea's verse. And I want you to just consider that this whole lesson will be about comfort and peace. So in the next segment, which I'm so excited about, we are going to tie these chapters to a holiday. And the timing of these chapters could not be better for those who celebrate this holiday, and for us.

Segment 2 7:24

.....

Tammy 7:30

Okay, so Chelsea, I just have to, we're gonna talk about holidays. And I'm gonna tell you what my favorite holiday is in the world. Oh my gosh, I love Halloween so much.

Chelsea Hayden 7:37

Huuuh, I do, too! I love Halloween.

Tammy 7:40

I love to dress up. Oh, my gosh, it's my favorite thing.

Chelsea Hayden 7:44

It is the best. I was a musical theater major, and dressing up is like part of who I am. Like, it is so much fun. And, candy. I mean, you can't beat it.

Tammy 7:54

Uh, honestly, and you better believe when I had kids, that I used them. Because, I'm trick or treating with a newborn. And I'm like, "You know, for the kids."

Chelsea Hayden 8:03

Right! That's why we have kids, isn't it, so that we can take the candy?

Tammy 8:06

Yeah, that's, that's the payoff right there.

Chelsea Hayden 8:08

You get the good stuff.

Tammy 8:09

Exactly. And you go through their stuff at night because what do they know? They don't even have teeth yet.

Chelsea Hayden 8:14

I tell my kids that's "taxes". You give me the best pieces of your candy, that's the taxes you have for being my child.

Tammy 8:19

I like 'mom taxes'; that's brilliant. So that's my favorite holiday. What is yours?

Chelsea Hayden 8:25

I really love Easter.

Tammy 8:27

Tell me why.

Chelsea Hayden 8:28

It is my favorite holiday. President Hinckley once said that there would be no Christmas if there were no Easter. Because Easter is the culmination - not just that Christ was born - but that He fulfilled everything that He said He was going to. And there aren't a lot of celebrations around Easter and that's one of the reasons actually, that I started researching Passover two or three decades ago. Because I wanted more special stuff to do as an individual and with my family that taught me about Jesus Christ at Easter. Because it is, it is the center of my year.

Tammy 9:08

And it is. And I highly recommend people celebrate Passover if you can with your family because it's such a beautiful holiday, so I will concur. It is Chelsea's favorite holiday. But the reason, one of the reasons I asked Chelsea to come on today, was specifically to talk about a high holy day. And this is really significant. In fact, if you have a calendar in front of you, I want you to look at your calendar for the year 2022 - which is what we're in - and look at September 25th, it's this coming Sunday. This coming Sunday will be the last day for this specific Come, Follow Me lesson - Isaiah 43-49, and good kudos to the Come, Follow Me group. You couldn't have planned it better, because on September 25, it is the Jewish High Holy day known as Rosh Hashanah. Now you've probably seen that on your calendar and wondered like, What's Rosh Hashanah? And we're going to tell you about it because it's a really important holiday to the Jews. And it is to us as well, especially in light of the chapters we're going to study today. So I asked Chelsea, will you tell us a little bit about the holiday Rosh Hashanah?

Chelsea Hayden 10:08

I would love to. So ROSH means 'head', and HA means 'the', SHANAH means 'year'. So head of the year, top of the year. This is one of four New Years that Jews celebrate. But this one is super important because it marks the anniversary of the creation of mankind. It is the most important of the New Years.

Tammy 10:30

This is HAPPY NEW YEAR! of all New Years.

Chelsea Hayden 10:32

Absolutely. And it is not only the head of the year, it is the top of the High Holy Days that you mentioned, the most significant 10 days in the Jewish calendar. It starts 10 days later. We have Yom Kippur, which is THE High Holy day of all holy days - the Day of Atonement. And so this is a time of introspection, reflection, repentance, both individually and collectively, which is really important. Because the Day of Atonement is not just about individuals being redeemed, but the collective community of all of God's children being able to be redeemed because of Jesus Christ and how He covered everything that came about because of the Fall. And the goal for the Jews during this High Holy Day period is to be written in God's Book of Life.

Chelsea Hayden 11:27

And so they have certain ceremonies, like the Tashlich ceremony means 'the casting'. They will take bread crumbs, or some other substance and they cast it into a body of moving water. It might be a river, a stream, even a sink with the water turned on. And it is an outward symbol of giving away your sins, and thinking about the sins maybe even that you didn't recognize that you had committed in the last year, recommitting yourself to God. One of the interesting things to me is that they also have prayers for their ancestors and loved ones who have passed on who may need extra support, because they want them to be written in God's Book of Life as well. And I think that we can connect to that as Latter-Day Saints because we believe that we are saved through our ancestors, and they are saved through us. And then of course, we have Yom Kippur or Yom Ha-kippurim is how it's actually written in the Old Testament, the Day of Atonement, which is in Leviticus. It is the center of Leviticus, which is the center of the Torah or the Books of Moses. It is the center of Israelite life is this Day of Atonement.

Chelsea Hayden 12:38

And one of the things that I love is that Kippur means 'cover'. And so this is the Messiah covering them individually and collectively - from the effects of the - from sin and death. And so, when I think of Jesus Christ covering, I think of Him covering my tab, the bill that I have run up so high that I could never pay it on my own. And He covers that for me. And I used to think of Him covering my sins. But the more I've thought about that, the more I think that that just sounds like like we're hiding it. It's still there, mouldering under the surface. But instead, I've started thinking about Jesus Christ covering me from the effects of my sins, from my poor choices, from my fallen nature. That He, through His blood and His life has placed Himself as a shield between me and darkness and the adversary and the consequences of my sin. So this High Holy Day of the Day of Atonement, and the whole process starting with Rosh Hashanah, this is all about becoming better because of the Messiah and becoming whole because of the Messiah.

Tammy 13:58

Oh my gosh, Chelsea, that was perfect. So I want everyone to be thinking about this, because part of this Rosh Hashana ceremony is, it begins with two priests who see the new moon after the end of the harvest season. Once they see this new moon, they blow these ram's horns - shofars. And you have to have two witnesses that the moon is new. The ram's horn is blown, as in symbol to indicate to everybody, Okay, it's the New Year. So Rosh Hashanah has begun and you have 10 days to gather your family and everything and head to the tabernacle. And when you get there, you have these 10 days to think about everything you've done in your life or this past year that you want to be forgiven of. And so what's really significant about this celebration, and we've talked about this before, is when Moroni received the plates from Joseph Smith, it happened on the day of Rosh Hashanah.

Tammy 14:52

Rosh Hashanah is always in the Fall and it's at the end of the harvest because the field is white and it's ready to be harvested. Does that sound familiar? That is the main message of the restoration. When Joseph received the plates, the field was "ready to be harvested". And today we are gathering in preparing for the Second Coming. We are, we are totally all about the restoration. I think it's so cool how this is how Rosh Hashanah and the restoration come together and we are a part of it. And it's kind of neat because every Sunday is sort of our Yom Kappur; every day we're, every day is our Yom Kippur. We're repenting, we're renewing. But specifically for the Jews, this Sunday is the beginning of their New Year where they're going to renew their lives and repent. And so we just have to go into Isaiah 40:31. It adds so much power to the celebration.

Tammy 15:42

Isaiah 40:31. So chapter, Isaiah chapter 40 is beautiful. Read it, mark it up. It's everything that the Lord will do for us. It's all the ways that He feels about us and how He will help us in all of our, but I think verse 31 is it for me. And it says, "But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."

Tammy 16:09

Now we've talked about waiting upon the Lord, we did that last week. But I think this is cool: renew their strength, They shall mount up with wings as eagles. So this is kind of cool. It's a very common and popular opinion that the eagle lives and retains his vigor to a great age, and that, beyond the common lot of other birds, he moults in his old age. And he renews his feathers, and then with them, his youth. That feathers fall out and new ones grow. In fact, Psalms 103:5 says, "so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's." So it refers to this fact. Now, there is a popular opinion among the ancient philosophers that believed that eagles would plunge themselves off of their cliff into the sea, where they would fall into the water and cast off, and all of their feathers would fall off, and then they'd shoot up out of the water with new wings. That is not true, but I like the imagery of it, especially for all of us - this idea of casting off the burden and falling into THE waters, like into the Savior, and letting us shed all of our old feathers and be renewed through Him.

Tammy 17:15

And that is what this looks like for us. Because then you go into this verse, we will "run and not be weary, we will walk and not faint". And I don't think that means physically, because I'm not a fast runner. In fact, I hate running. But, I think this is spiritually speaking; we will be able to spiritually run and not be weary and walk and not be faint. And I just love this verse. What do you, what are your thoughts, Chelse?

Chelsea Hayden 17:35

Oh, Tammy, I'm glad that you pointed out this, that running and not being weary, walking and not fainting. The Hebrew word for 'faint'- QAVAH - also can be translated, 'exhausted'. And we all know what it's like to be physically, spiritually, emotionally, mentally exhausted, we know what that feels like. And something that I love is if you go to Isaiah 40:29, just two verses before, it says the Lord "giveth power to the faint". And in the verse before that, 40:28, it says that God "fainteth not, neither is weary". So He takes His strength. He gices it to us.

Tammy 18:10

He's not exhausted.

Chelsea Hayden 18:12

Right.

Tammy 18:12

Oh, I love that!

Chelsea Hayden 18:12

He's not exhausted. So He gives us strength to be able to run and not be weary, to walk and not faint, to fly and soar like these eagles. Like, it sounds a little cliche, maybe, but it's kind of kind of like we're saying that He is "the wind beneath our wings". Like, His power is what makes this happen. It's not because you and I have the power; we are exhausted. But His power is always enough.

Chelsea Hayden 18:13

Chelsea, that is awesome, I'm so grateful you pointed out 29, He giveth power to the exhausted. Oh my gosh, there's many of us that are breathing sighs right now, sighs of relief with these verses. So good. Thank you for sharing that. Okay, so let's do this, then. In the next segment let's talk about how we can renew our feathers and how the Lord feels about those who are in the process.

Segment 3 18:40

......

Tammy 18:47

So Chelsea, what are some ways that we can renew our feathers? Do you have any ideas?

Chelsea Hayden 19:07

Oh, you know, I have been, I'm divorced. And I recently got back into the world of dating, which

Tammy 19:18

I'm so sorry,

Tammy 19:19

as a mid-single, it's the worst.

Tammy 19:21

It is the worst.

Chelsea Hayden 19:21

It really is the worst. But there's one benefit that I have been thinking of. And as I have been, it's kind of forced me to re-evaluate my life and to do some spiritual, emotional spring cleaning of all of the corners. To declutter, to organize, to look at things that maybe I haven't needed to look at or have been willing to ignore because I didn't have to look at them. But I want to be the best person I can. Not to attract someone, but because I want to be happy with who I am and where I am. And this process has kind of been pulling out all of these cobwebs and all of the piles of papers spiritually in me, getting rid of all those feathers, which kind of hurts. It hurts to get rid of those. But I want to be able to have good things come in their place, to get rid of all the junk so that I can be a better version of myself. And I, in some ways, I wish everyone had this opportunity. In most ways, I would never wish it on my worst enemy. But it's kind of nice to take the opportunity, whatever is going on in our lives, to do that spiritual spring cleaning, and get rid of all that clutter.

Tammy 20:30

You know, Chelsea, I love that you said it hurts to get rid of those feathers hurts. Because one of the things that I read was there's a blood flow that goes into these feathers. Like it's not just that the feather pops off, but it's, it's inside of their, like it's part of the, the animal. And so it really is painful to have those feathers plucked out or taken. And I think many of us have experienced how painful 'losing feathers' is. And a lot of times our feathers do become part of us, and the Lord's like, You need to get rid of that feather so you can be renewed. And many of us listening are in the process of moulting; we are in that renewal phase. And I'm grateful that you shared what that looks like for you. And I'm sorry you have to go through that, because dating is the worst.

Chelsea Hayden 21:10

It really is.

Tammy 21:11

Uh, all right. Yeah, no good, no good. But there is hope. So let's go through Isaiah 41:8-16. And we're going to find all of the ways that the Lord views us, for those of us who are moulting or losing our feathers. So let's start with verses 8 and 9. Go ahead, Chelse.

Tammy 21:28

8 "But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen; the seed of Abraham my friend.

Tammy 21:34

9 "Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast it away."

Tammy 21:44

Okay, so I found in here how the Lord views us as, 1) We are God's servants; 2) We are His chosen people. And then the next one was, God has called us from the chief men of the earth. I love that. Like, who, me? puny, puny, little me? You bet. From the chief men of the earth we've been called. So that's pretty cool. He thinks really highly of us.

Chelsea Hayden 22:04

Yes, I love it reminds me of the Scripture in the Doctrine and Covenants where God tells Joseph that He calls him as one of the weak things of the earth. That we, even though we are weak, we are still separated from the chief, most important people in the world because we are His servants, because He has chosen us.

Tammy 22:04

Absolutely. Let's look at verse 10. Chelse, I'm gonna have you read this again, because this is your favorite verse.

Chelsea Hayden 22:29

All right. "Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness."

Tammy 22:43

Thank you. Okay, let's look at that verse. I marked, that we're not to fear because God will strengthen and uphold us. I think there's so much beauty in that. What did you see in that verse that how God feels about us?

Chelsea Hayden 22:55

You know I really love that He says that He will hold us with His right hand.

Tammy 23:00

Oh, yeah. Tell us about that. Because you mentioned that last time.

Chelsea Hayden 23:03

Yeah, if you This is Isaiah 41, verse 10. And if you look at verse 13, it says, "For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand." And I love that the idea of His right hand is holding my right hand, which is a very covenantal relationship. The right hand is used very much in the Old Testament to signify not only strength and skill - because it's our dexterous hand - but covenants and ordinances and authority and power. And something that I really love about this, is that as a single mom, I don't have a priesthood holder in my home, but I can still have the power of God with me. I don't use it the same way, but I have just the same amount of access to God's help and power through Jesus Christ as a man does, and I can have that hope and that peace in my home because of that.

Tammy 23:56

Yep, you are absolutely right. Oh, that's so good. I have to tell you, I had this ah-ha as you were explaining the right hand, because I had seminary students often ask why do you have to take the sacrament with your right hand? And I at the time I'm like, Because we're told to, I don't know. But now I'm connecting it to this idea of, Oh my gosh, wait a minute! The right hand, it really is a symbol of what He will do for us. When I take the sacrament this Sunday. I will remember this: that He will uphold me, that He will strengthen me, He will help me, that I'm holding His right hand. And yes, listen, my daughter is totally left-handed. She's never gonna take the Sacrament with her right hand because she can't use it very well. She has cerebral palsy, so she takes it with her left hand, it still counts, whatever it looks like. But I just think the imagery is beautiful. There is power in that right hand, and Him holding our hand and giving us that power, so very cool. Thank you. I can't wait to take the Sacrament on Sunday. That's so good.

Tammy 24:50

Okay, let's go to verse, um, oh, let's look at verse 11 and see what that teaches us. I'll read that verse.

Tammy 24:56

11 "Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish."

Tammy 25:05

Oh, I just put 'those who are against thee are as nothing'. Like, God's everything and everybody, all your enemies, nothing. That's so good.

Tammy 25:15

13 "For I the Lord thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee."

Tammy 25:21

Okay, that is so good. Don't be afraid, but I will help thee. That's, that is a powerful statement right there. I will help thee.

Chelsea Hayden 25:28

I like that He says, I will. Not I might, I will. I will be there helping you from the first step to the last, I will help you.

Tammy 25:38

And He's a God of truth and He cannot lie. This isn't like if it's convenient for Him or, and it doesn't even say you have to be righteous or perfect. If you're in that moulting phase, remember, we're moulting. We're getting rid of old feathers, trying to grow new ones; it's painful, and He will help thee. Oh, that's so good, Chelsea. Okay, and then let's go to verses 15 and 16. Here's our last one, go ahead and read those for us, Chelse.

Chelsea Hayden 26:01

15 "Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument h:aving teeth thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small, and shalt make the hills as chaff.

Chelsea Hayden 26:01

16 "Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away, and the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the LORD, and thou shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel."

Tammy 26:21

Now I put he will mold us into powerful, unique instruments. Is there anything else you have with those verses?

Chelsea Hayden 26:26

No, that's, that's what stood out to me as well. That He makes more out of us than we could ever make of ourselves.

Tammy 26:33

Yes, absolutely. Okay. Oh, I forgot. There's one more - verse 18. We have to do this one.

Tammy 26:38

18 "I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys; I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water."

Tammy 26:46

Like, how cool that He will just give us, you know, those of us who have been in the wilderness - and we talked about this last week - there is no place that rain can't touch, there is no place that living water will not help. And so we fly into that water and it is painful, but I think it's beautiful. This the spring of water: it's fresh, it's new, it's refreshing. And there's so much beautiful imagery in this.

Chelsea Hayden 27:10

Do you know, something I love about this is that in the New Testament, when the Savior says He's the living water, living water in the Jewish culture is something that is coming directly from the source. It's not stagnant. It's not rainfall that's been stored and collected. It is coming straight from the source. I love that the fountain and the springs of water - that's showing that living water coming from Jesus Christ.

Tammy 27:33

I'm writin that above that verse, that's awesome. Okay, and then the last one we have to do - go to Isaiah 43:1-5. Oh my gosh, listen, whoever's in charge of sacrament this Sunday, please make this your opening or your closing song.

Chelsea Hayden 27:49

Shall we sing it?

Tammy 27:51

No kidding, right? Chelsea can. Chelsea why don't, Chelsea actually, okay, I'm gonna ask, I'm gonna ask Chelsea to sing the first line of this song because Chelsea went to school to become an opera singer. This is so awesome. So Chelsea, will you please sing for us the first line of this hymn. So Chelsea hit it.

Tammy 28:08

(sings) "How firm a foundation, ye saints of the Lord, Is laid for your faith in his excellent word!"

Chelsea Hayden 28:21

Beautiful. And then you go to verse 5

Chelsea Hayden 28:23

wasn't that great.

Tammy 28:23

Oh, you were, no, you, no, that was so good. So good. Look at verse 5. (sings) "Fear not, I am with thee, Oh be not dismayed." This is where we get it from. This is so powerful! And so I want us to just take some time to read verses 1-5 But look, He says to us "Fear not" in verse 1.(hymn). "Fear not" in (Isaiah 43) verse 5. Like, whatever you're going through, whatever your moulting process looks like - He is your salvation. He is going to help you through it. And don't, and you can do it. That's what the message of this is, is that you can do it because like He said, He will help thee. He absolutely will help thee in all of this. And I love how the the hymn ends. "I'll never, no never, no never forsake!" And I just thought of those words, like after all He's done for me, how could I possibly, like how can I deny the blessings and the goodness of Him? And I find that sometimes I have to be kind of reminded of this.

Tammy 28:36

And so I just want to reiterate. We had a challenge from John Hilton a few months ago, where he told us to write "our greatest hits". Write down all the times you felt the spirit and all the times the Lord has helped you, and tell your stories so that we can all help each other. I like how you taught us, Chelsea that the Yom Kippur is a collective experience where everyone is being forgiven of their sins. And every Sunday we have this Yom Kippur. Every Sunday we gather as saints where we are being forgiven of our sins, but we also should be reminding each other of the goodness that God did for us that week. That should be what's shared in Gospel Doctrine: What did it look like for you this week? And so I just think these verses are beautiful. And I want to know, Chelsea from these verses and that hymn, how has he helped you pass through deep waters? I want to know what that has looked like, as you've gone through the moulting phase?

Tammy 29:24

Okay, 43:2 says, "When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee."

Chelsea Hayden 30:22

And I like that, because the Savior is going to protect us from fire just like He did Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. But we also have to remember that He's going to be with us in the fire, just as I'm sure He was with Abinadi. And miraculous rescue isn't the only way that He shows us His love. Sometimes He lets the difficult things happen. And I feel like recently, I've had just this, this string of difficult circumstances, one after another after another. Llike every time I stand up, my legs are knocked back out from underneath me. And sometimes I feel like I'm crawling across the ground and my fingers are bloody stumps. I'm just trying to not give up. And a couple of week-ends ago, another blow hit. And I was thinking about, Okay, well, I just need more polishing. And I thought, Well, I don't, do I really need more polishing? Was I really that tarnished to begin with? Can't heaven just throw me a bone?

Chelsea Hayden 31:21

And I was reading Isaiah 48: 10. And the Lord says, "Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction."

Chelsea Hayden 31:31

And that word furnace literally means a smelting pot, like liquefying metals. And so it's not just that He is trying to polish us, as He puts us through fire to make us shiny and pretty and nice. It's because He is trying to create out of us a more useful instrument like you had just talked about before. He is making me more useful in His hands, He is making me better, and He has to melt me in order to be able to pour me into whatever instrument He needs to make of me. So He doesn't remove the fire, He doesn't take away the heat, because we need the heat. But He's always going to be there just with the exact right amount of heat for the exact right amount of time so that we can become everything He knows that we can be.

Tammy 32:23

and that He'll be with us in that heat and in that fire. But I like that how that verse isn't like, But good luck, as you're burning. Good luck, as you're uncomfortable

Tammy 32:31

I'll see you the other. side.

Tammy 32:32

Yeah, hope you make it. That is awesome, Chelsea, I'm so grateful that you connected your experience to verse 2, because it is what you said is absolutely true. I love that. And so in the next segment, then, we're going to talk about sources that can help us when we are in the fire. This will be a great discussion.

Segment 4 32:51

.....

Tammy 32:57

So as a Seminary teacher, one of the things we do for this specific lesson is we would ask our students to share with us problems that they were facing in their lives. Now I'm going to ask you guys to do the same. So those of you listening and when you take your journal and make a list of all of the adversity or problems that you're facing in your life. And it can be an exhaustive as you want it to be, just start writing everything down that's on your mind. And plus, it's just really good to get it out. Because it's always in - once it's in your mind, you can write it out, can just let it go. Because I want you to do that right now. I want to take this list of problems that you're facing. And then I want to consider this. So, where do some people turn when they have problems like these? Where have we turned to in the past? And what are some main sources that help better than others? So Chelsea, what are some sources people turn to, good or bad?

Chelsea Hayden 33:45

Well, one of the bad things that I do is to numb out. It might be through food, or disconnecting from reality. And while those aren't fundamentally bad things, I find that they spiral me downward, versus going on a peaceful walk or listening to uplifting music when I'm stressed out, which leads me upward. And it's, it's maybe a little more difficult to get myself in the mindset where I'm seeking out those positive things, because the ones that spiral me downward seem to be the easier ones to go to.

Tammy 34:18

Oh yeah, absolutely. That's a great example. For me, definitely. I think I agree - disconnect. In fact, I remember one time I found myself on a certain social media website looking at stuff, finding people who were having the same problems as me and going, Yeah, I feel the same way. And then I'm following them, and then I go back to hear what they have to say. I'm like, That's right. I totally agree and then how quickly I am to go, Oh my gosh, wait a minute, where have I gone with this? Like it was

Chelsea Hayden 34:44

It just feeds it, right?

Tammy 34:46

It feeds my anger or feeds whatever I'm experiencing and probably not the best source. So that is definitely one that we, the trap we fall into for sure. There are also sources that are good sources. So before we continue on with talking about sources to get help, we just want everyone to know. Let us be clear that we stand with Elder Holland when he said in his epic 2013 talk "Like a Broken Vessel". And I think this quote is really powerful, we have to read this. So Chelsea, will you read it.

Chelsea Hayden 34:46

Elder Holland: "If things continue to be debilitating, seek the advice of reputable people with certified training, professional skills, and good values. Be honest with them about your history and your struggles. Prayerfully and responsibly consider the counsel they give and the solutions they prescribe. If you had appendicitis, God would expect you to seek a priesthood blessing and get the best medical care available. So, too with emotional disorders. Our Father in Heaven expects us to use all of the marvelous gifts He has provided in this glorious dispensation."

Tammy 34:46

We're going to give you some parameters for how you can know if the source is good or not. Let's go into Isaiah chapter 44. We're going to start in verse 9 and 10. So we're going to read a couple of verses that will give us an idea and then we'll discuss. So we're going to start in verse 9 and I'll read these.

Tammy 35:30

44:9 "They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.

Tammy 36:12

10 "Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?"

Tammy 36:16

Because we're talking about graven images and objects. Let's go down now, we're going to read verse 14 and 15. Chelsey, will you read those for us.

Chelsea Hayden 36:23

44:14 "He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it.

Chelsea Hayden 36:34

15 "Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a God, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto."

Tammy 36:49

And then mark verse 17. And we're gonna read that

Tammy 36:51

17 "And the residue thereof he maketh a God, even his graven image: he followeth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and praeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my God."

Tammy 37:02

Okay, so let's talk about these parameters. And I specifically want to start in verse 15. Verse 9 and 10 warned us about the graven images that people are making, but 15 really struck me. I love this verse. So in verse 15, what is the good that all of this wood did for the man? That's what's really interesting. What did you notice, Chelsea?

Chelsea Hayden 37:23

Well, he can make himself warm, he can bake bread for himself. It's very useful.

Tammy 37:29

Right? It's kind of like what I talked about earlier, like I thought, Oh, yeah, these people get it. They know. And there is good that can come from certain sources, until it's not good. Until then it becomes your god is what that verse is teaching us is; it started out good and then it became his god, and he worshipped it. And then we have in verse 17, where it became his ultimate god, and he's yelling to it, Deliver me, deliver me. I mean, we definitely can see that in the world we live in today with false sources.

Chelsea Hayden 37:57

So I find it really interesting in verses 14 and 15 that he's planting these trees and nourishing them. But without God, the trees would have never grown in the first place. So you can't, he can't take all the credit here or give the credit to the idols that God created the wood for. And second of all, it really humbled me when I started thinking, Okay, so what used to serve him, now he ends up serving. And so I started, I asked myself, is what used to serve me now becoming something that I am serving? The balance is thrown off, because it takes over control. And it might be the activities my kids are doing, which served us well at one point, and now I am serving it. It is not giving us back what it needs to be, or a habit that I have, or outdated goals or expectations. What used to serve me becomes a dead idol when I start to serve it.

Tammy 38:59

That was perfectly summed up Chelsea, that is exactly what these verses are teaching us. And I love how you just did that. That is what Isaiah 44 is completely about. And are they serving you anymore? And so kind of be thinking about that, because you're right, we all set goals, when we're going through that moulting process and that refining process, like you said. We do. Like maybe I need to refine myself. And so it starts out good, but then it does become your god where you start to have it take the place of the Father. And that's what the rest of Isaiah chapter 45 wants to remind us - is your false god - teaches us in 44. But then 45 is 'but let me remind you, it's me. I'm your God'. So we're gonna highlight a couple of verses in 45 that teach us this. So first of all, 45:5 says, "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me; I girded thee, though thou hast not known me." I mean, I just think that's it. He's like, No, remember Me? It's Me. I am the Lord God. Let's look at verse 17. Go and read that for us, Chelsea and tell us about it.

Chelsea Hayden 39:58

45:17 "But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end."

Tammy 40:06

So good, read verse 18, too.,

Chelsea Hayden 40:09

18 "For Thus saith, the LORD that created the heavens, God Himself that formed the earth and made it, he hath established it. He created it not in vain. He formed it to be inhabited. I am the Lord and there is none else."

Tammy 40:24

Yeah, no one else. I'm here. I'm the one you should worship. Now look at verse 22. "Look unto me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." Oh, these are so good.

Chelsea Hayden 40:24

Do you know something that stands out to me in all of this? like He keeps saying, I am the Lord, I am the one that did this. And in verse 5 of chapter 45, that you read, He says, "I girded thee", which means equipped thee or even encircled thee, "though thou hast not known me." And that kind of begs the question, What good is the life of Christ to somebody who doesn't even believe in Him, who doesn't know He exists? Even if we don't know him, He is our God who is in our lives and who has made it possible for us to be resurrected and to be with Heavenly Father again. He is God. He is not the kind of God that cannot save, like 45:20 says. He is the God who can save, the only way that we can be saved.

Chelsea Hayden 40:39

Oh, Chelsea, thank you. Thank you for pointing that out. And then we'll end it with chapter 46 of Isaiah verses 3-5. Will you read these for us, please.

Chelsea Hayden 40:55

46:3 "Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnants of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb:

Chelsea Hayden 41:39

4 "And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry and will deliver you.

Chelsea Hayden 41:51

5 "To whom will you liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?"

Tammy 41:55

Oh, like, He's just reminding us you were going to worship something else, but I will be here forever. That hoar, oh my gosh, don't you love that? That hoar hairs. Like, to your old age, the oldest of ages. I will be here from the moment you were born until you die.

Chelsea Hayden 42:13

Which takes us back to hymn #85, because there's a verse about old age, like, I will be with you from the beginning through the end, I will never stop.

Tammy 42:23

It's perfect. So we're gonna end with this quote from Elder Holland, from the same talk "Like a Broken Vessel", when it comes to finding a source and finding a source to help us as we mold and as we're being refined. Yes, absolutely get help from trained professionals. And I love how he says this.

Tammy 42:39

Elder Holland: "So how do you best respond when mental or emotional challenges confront you or those you love? Above all, never lose faith in your Father in Heaven, who loves you more than you can comprehend. As President Monson said to the Relief Society sisters so movingly last Sunday evening, that love never changes. It is there for you when you are sad or happy, discouraged or hopeful. God's love is there for you whether or not you feel you deserve it. It is simply always there. Never ever doubt that and never harden your heart. Faithfully pursue the time-tested devotional practices that bring the spirit of the Lord into your life. Seek the counsel of those who hold keys for your spiritual well-being. Ask for and cherish priesthood blessings, take the sacrament every week, and hold fast to the perfecting promise of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Believe in miracles, I have seen so many of them come when every other indication would say that hope was lost. Hope is never lost. If those miracles do not come soon, or fully, or seemingly at all, remember the Savior's own anguished example. If the bitter cup does not pass, drink it and be strong, trusting and happier days ahead."

Chelsea Hayden 43:55

That is so powerful.

Tammy 43:57

Tell me why it's so powerful to you, Chelsea.

Chelsea Hayden 44:00

I often think about, I want to turn to people who are around me; I want someone who I can hug or who I can hear their voice, like use those physical senses to connect to. But all of those people will fail us. Something that I have learned in my life is that Jesus Christ isn't the best way back to God. . . . . . . . . . . .

Chelsea Hayden 44:19

He is the only way back to God. There is no other way, no other means; He is the only one who will never fail us, and the only one who knows exactly how we're feeling. Every other thing, every other person will somehow fail or disappoint or leave or pass away. Everyone. But He will never leave us. We may sometimes feel like He's abandoned us or we don't feel connected to him. But I think looking back, we will always be able to see that He was there, closer than we had any idea, guiding our paths.

Tammy 44:58

Wow. Thank you Chelsea. Amen to what you just said. Okay, so for those of you who made your list, and we just talked about sources and all of this fun stuff, what we're gonna do in the next segment is answer the question: Okay, but what about during the interim? Can there be peace in the midst of all these trials? Or do you just have to wait until it's all over and learn from the lesson. We'll discuss that in the next segment.

Segment 5 45:20

.....

Tammy 45:28

Okay, so going back to how we started, my daughter with the anxiety. So this is interesting, because we went to the doctor a few weeks later to get a referral from a therapist to get help for her anxiety. And the doctor told us this: "You will never get rid of anxiety. But what you can do is get tools to put in your personal toolbox that will help you manage your anxiety. And these tools will be helpful for the rest of your life." I love that how he set that up, like you're never going to get rid of it; you will have it the rest of your life. You will have moments of anxiety and anxiousness, so let's just get you the tools that you need. And I thought that was so profound, especially in light of Isaiah chapter 48. Because then I went and read 48 and I was like, the tools are right here! This is so cool. These are some tools that we can use that will help us to feel peace and comfort, and to help us manage our anxiety.

Tammy 46:16

So let's go into Isaiah chapter 48. Now this is kind of cool - just a little side note - that Isaiah 48 is the very first full chapter of Isaiah that the prophet Nephi quotes in the Book of Mormon. And you can put in the cross references right there: 1 Nephi chapter 20 is where he says it. But what I think is interesting is before he quotes Isaiah, in 1 Nephi 19:19, and then verse 23, he says why he's going to speak the words of Isaiah. In verse 19 he says, ".....I speak unto all the house of Israel", so he's speaking to us. And then in verse 23, he says, "......that I might more fully persuade them to believe in the Lord their Redeemer I did read unto them that which was written by the prophet Isaiah". So he's going to persuade us to believe in the Lord by quoting Isaiah chapter 48. So let's jump into Isaiah 48. Let's find out what are some of the tools in this chapter that we can put in our toolbox. So here we go. Chapter 48:1 starts,

Tammy 47:10

48:1 "Hear ye this, O house of Jacob." (Now remember the word 'hear' right there we've learned, is SHEMA in Hebrew, which means 'hearken or obey'. Don't just listen to what I'm saying. You're gonna need to obey what's being said in Isaiah 48, hearken, obey Hear ye this O house of Jacob, which is us. Then let's go to chapter 48:9-10, and this is where our list of blach comes in, the list that you made. Chelsea, read verse 9 and 10.

Chelsea Hayden 47:34

9 "For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.

Chelsea Hayden 47:43

10 "Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction."

Tammy 47:48

There it is, and Chelsea you quoted that earlier, but our furnace of affliction. Many of you have a very long list of your furnaces of affliction. And so I want you to kind of think about that list you made. And let's look into some of the tools we can put in our toolbox. The first one is found in verse 12. Here we go. Verse 12, starts out with that word again. "Hearken unto me", that's the first tool. Obey, hearken, listen to what's being said by our Prophet, apostles, and scriptures. So there's our first one: hearken, listen, and obey. Let's go to verse 14.

Chelsea Hayden 48:21

14 "All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans."

Tammy 48:33

What's the first thing it tells us to do in that verse?

Chelsea Hayden 48:35

To assemble, to not try to rely on yourself.

Tammy 48:39

Ah, isn't that awesome? That's the point of church, isn't it? Oh, my gosh, I wish we could really take that to heart when we walk into Sacrament and Relief Society and Sunday School that we're assembling to, to come together as saints and and help each other out.

Chelsea Hayden 48:54

You know I think that there's a certain mentality that we could improve, so that when we're assembled together we're willing to be open and vulnerable. Because if we're not, it's going to be harder for us to experience and help other people experience comfort and peace.

Tammy 49:10

Yeah. And don't we all want to know that we all get it? There's nothing more comforting than hearing someone share a story and you're like, me, too.

Chelsea Hayden 49:17

Yes. Yeah, I completely agree.

Tammy 49:20

Okay, let's go to another tool, verse 16, "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the LORD God, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

Tammy 49:34

Coming near unto Me, come unto Him. And I have recently had this experience where I've often heard people say, I just gave it to the Lord. And that's hard. I don't really know what that looks like until I really did give it to the Lord and it wasn't a unique experience. I wrote it out. It had just been on my mind and on my heart and had been just like churning and churning and like ice cream that never got frozen and it was awful. And I finally am like, I gotta write this down and I wrote it out in a whole letter. And I said, This is yours, God. And it worked. I didn't think about anything in that letter for an entire week. I felt peace. I felt like, okay, this is, He's gonna help me take care of this. I don't know how, I don't know what it's gonna look like, but I felt such a sense of relief. Like, this is, this is His; He really will help me, so, Come ye

Tammy 50:23

That's beautiful, Tam.

Tammy 50:24

near unto Him. Yeah, it did work. I was surprised. Someone told me it would and it did. So there you go, huh? Okay, there it goes back to the assemble I was in, yeah. Somebody other than me came up with it. And then verse 18. Here's a great one. Go ahead, Chelsea. Read that for us.

Chelsea Hayden 50:39

48:18 "O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:"

Tammy 50:47

What does that verse tell us to do? What's the tool?

Chelsea Hayden 50:50

To hearken to the commandments.

Tammy 50:52

Yeah, keep the commandments. Oh, my gosh, that's a good one. And if we do keep the commandments, what's the promise?

Chelsea Hayden 50:59

That we will have peace as a river that never stops flowing.

Tammy 51:03

Oh, my gosh. And it goes back to your whole thing you began with, that peace can only come through Christ. And coming to Christ is keeping the commandments that He's asked us to keep. Like there is a beautiful connection there. And that's incredible. K, we have one more - verse 20. This is a good one.

Tammy 51:20

20 "Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob."

Tammy 51:32

Okay. I think the imagery in my mind is so fun with that. Because saying, "Go ye forth from Babylon", leave the world. Leave everything that is worldly that is just burying and weighing you down. Get rid of stuff in your life. Like you said, Chelsea, clean out the cobwebs in the corners, get rid of it, remove it, and then sing with a voice. I think that's awesome. "With a voice singing and declaring the Lord hath redeemed his servant". Like it worked. it totally worked and redeem that to everyone you know. I think that's so awesome. keeping the commandments and all of these tools are what really do work. And even as Kerry Muhlestein taught us a couple of weeks ago, Doctrine and Covenants 46:9, put a cross reference next to all of these because that, is says, What about people who are like, But I'm trying to keep the commandments, but I'm struggling. It's okay. That Scripture in Doctrine and Covenants says, "and those who seek it so to do."

Chelsea Hayden 52:22

That is one of my favorite verses.

Chelsea Hayden 52:24

Tell me why.

Chelsea Hayden 52:26

Because I am so far from perfect, and I tend to be a perfectionist. And I'm never good enough for myself, and to realize that my best effort is all that He asks. And sometimes my best effort is really, really not much at all. As long as I am doing what I can, that is enough; that sacrifice is acceptable to God.

Tammy 52:50

And there's no mention of perfection in any of these verses. Oh my gosh, Chelsea, that's beautiful. Thank you. And when we think about peace, and that the peace we can feel from that, I just. I love this quote by Elder Cook, and we'll end this segment with this quote. Chelsea, will you read this for us.

Chelsea Hayden 53:05

"We all long for peace. Peace is not just safety or lack of war, violence, conflict and contention. Peace comes from knowing that the Savior knows who we are, and knows that we have faith in Him, love Him, and keep His commandments. Even and especially amid life's devastating trials and tragedies. Even with the trials of life, because of the Savior's Atonement and His grace, righteous living will be rewarded with personal peace."

Tammy 53:36

I believe that for you, Chelse, even though you're a perfectionist.

Chelsea Hayden 53:41

Thank you.

Tammy 53:42

It's totally okay. Yeah, that beautiful peace. So, thank you for sharing what you did. And I want us to just all remember, like, we just need tools in our toolbox. And that's what the Lord's asking us to do here on this earth, is to figure out how to use those on a daily basis, not perfectly, but just seeketh so to do. And you will have peace as a river. Ahhh, righteousness as the waves of the sea. That means they keep coming back. Like the waves return, we want that to happen for us. So beautiful, beautiful. Okay, so in the next segment, then, Chelsea - oh, I'm so excited for this - Chelsea is going to lead us through what she called one of her personal favorites in all of Scripture. And I can't wait to see what she has to teach us.

Segment 6 54:24

.....

Tammy 54:31

So many of you know, and we've had this experience and I've shared this with you, that I sit down to prepare the next lesson that we're going to teach and I look it over and I'm like, Alright, Heavenly Father, who should be my guest? So I get to Isaiah 4o-49. And I'm like, Who should it be? And I have names. And then just as clear as day it was Chelsea Hayden. Like, oh, we haven't heard from Chelsea in a while. That might be kind of fun so I invite her on. And then she tells me, "Can I please teach for like 49? Are we gonna talk about that, 49 is my favorite chapter in all of Scripture." And I was like, "That's why you're supposed to be here!" So I am really, really excited to see how, what you're going to teach us, how you're gonna teach it, all this good stuff. So I don't even have anything marked in 49. I can't wait to mark it up from your knowledge, so hit it, Chelse.

Chelsea Hayden 55:11

Yes, this, this is, so Elder Richard G. Scott once said that we each can have scriptures that are like stalwart friends that are not limited by geography or calendar. And this chapter is one of those stalwart old friends that I go to over and over and over. It brings me peace and comfort and it's also very motivating, and I think you'll see why. My connection with it started when I was a Beehive, and I made a little plaque for my parents that had one of the verses on it. But then as I got older, in my teen years and I started experiencing mental illness for the first time, these verses started to take on a very deep personal meaning for me. And you don't have to have mental illness for it to mean something deep, but I remember feeling like I was reading about myself. Like how Nephi says, "liken the scriptures unto ourselves", that I would put my name in. Instead of Israel or Zion, I would put my name in there and it felt like I was having this conversation with the Lord. So, if we start in Isaiah 49:13. Tammy, will you read that verse for us?

Tammy 56:26

Oh, I'd Love to.

Chelsea Hayden 56:27

This is a hopeful verse.

Tammy 56:29

49:13 "Sing, Oh heavens, and be joyful, oh Earth, and break forth into singing Oh mountains, for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted."

Chelsea Hayden 56:40

So there's this feeling of joy and happiness, like singing praises, because the Lord has offered comfort and mercy. And as my 16 year-old self, I read that and I thought, I don't feel comfort, or mercy. I feel like I'm supposed to be joyful. Everyone's telling me that if I'm doing everything right, that this is supposed to be how I'm feeling. And I wasn't feeling that way. In fact, I felt exactly like verse 14:

Chelsea Hayden 57:09

14 "But Zion said" {and I replaced that with Chelsea. 'But Chelsea said')..."The Lord hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me."

Chelsea Hayden 57:17

And the word for 'forsaken' in Hebrew means 'to be left unaided or abandoned'. I felt very abandoned. Like I, I am supposed to get these blessings. Why am I not feeling this way? Why is this not working out for me? Why is the Lord abandoning me in this moment? It felt like, you know, my prayers were bouncing off of a glass ceiling to heaven, and they weren't getting anywhere. And it was very devastating for me. But I love that that's not the end of the story. I totally relate to, to how Zion was feeling. And in verse 15, the Lord says,

Chelsea Hayden 57:53

15 "Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget. yet will I not forget thee." I want you to think about that. Tammy, explain to me, if you're a new mom as a new mother, why would it be difficult for a new mom to forget that she had a child?

Tammy 58:16

Oh my gosh. I mean, there's so much that happens to the female body as a reminder that you've had a child, without getting too graphic, but, especially, here's a great example - and it makes me pretty emotional - but I had a good friend that had a stillborn, and she had to go through the whole birthing process and bury her child, but her milk still came in. Like you still have to go through all of that. And she could not forget that child because she was reminded every day as that milk came in. And it's sometimes a painful process when that milk comes in. There's pain involved. And so I just, it reminds me of her. Like, can a woman forget her sucking child? One that is nursing or even one that isn't you don't forget that.You are left with the most beautiful scars after having children that remind you of that that child. And so with them when it says"yet will I not forget thee", like my friend's never forgotten her child that she buried, ever.

Tammy 59:17

Right? And never will.

Tammy 59:19

Yeah, and no matter what kind of parent you come from, they don't forget that they had a child, ever.

Chelsea Hayden 59:24

Right. I think the way you said it is just so perfect and powerful, whether it, whether it's physiologically or psychologically, and usually both. It just seems just unbelievable that a woman could forget that she had just given birth. And He says, but it's more likely that they will forget than Me. And I love that you said 'because you end up with these beautiful scars from that experience of giving birth' and then in verse 16 is Him explaining that He will not and cannot forget us. Because in verse 16, He says,

Chelsea Hayden 1:00:02

16 "Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; the walls are continually before me."

Chelsea Hayden 1:00:09

So He cannot forget us. He has graven, carved, inscribed in His hands, reminders of us. We are continually before Him because of that. And that imagery to me is of Him sacrificing His life for us and receiving those nail marks. That Elder Jeffrey R. Holland says He willingly chose to keep when He was resurrected with a perfected body. He willingly chose to keep those scars, not necessarily so that He won't forget us, because I don't think He could forget us, but as a reminder that He is our Savior who did everything for us. And that's so powerful to me, that He has not penciled us in. He has engravened us on His hands. And I would love to hear what your thoughts are on these verses.

Tammy 1:01:13

Well, all I kept thinking was holy cow, Chelsea! You definitely were the person for this episode. And I didn't know your struggle with mental illness. And it makes me so emotional, especially in verse 14, 'For Chelsea said, The Lord hath forsaken Me, and My Lord hath forgotten me.' I mean, I just think about how many times that many of us listening have felt that way, and to hear you put your name in that verse, and that you get it. That is so profound. And as you talked about that, and you taught these verses, I felt like the Spirit just bore witness to me in a way it never has before. He really won't forget us. And I love how you pointed out we don't even have to believe in Him and He won't forget us. That's what's so amazing about this is that you can choose to not even have a good relationship with Him. You can choose to not even like Him, and He's still going to love you and not forget you, ever.

Tammy 1:02:07

And so I am I am looking at these verses in a way I never have before. And I think what's so cool about this is he begins chapter 49 by saying, You "called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother". It's the only mention of Isaiah's mom in all of Scripture. And so he's already has this imagery of this womb and this mother relationship, and I'm just so, I can't wait to find out maybe the role that his mom had on him, to use this beautifully imagery. I mean, this imagery is, it's not male centric. Like, this is wording from a woman, you know? I just think it's amazing how we're reading this and, and how again the Lord uses female imagery as He describes Himself. We've talked about this year: can a hen gather, well you know, I will gather you as a hen gathereth her chickens. Jehovah ends in a female ending, and just it's so cool how He includes women in the description of Him. And He's doing that right here. So, thank you, thank you for teaching us those verses, Chelse.

Chelsea Hayden 1:03:04

Oh, Tammy, I love that. There's one more little piece that I want to throw in here because we have this individual salvation here of, of me, for example, or any of us, saying, I feel like You've abandoned me and Him saying, Oh, no, no, no, I couldn't even if I tried, because I've carved you into My hands. And then if you look down in Isaiah 49:22, this is where we get to the collective salvation.

Chelsea Hayden 1:03:28

22 "Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people:" He is holding up His hand, and what is on his Hand?

Tammy 1:03:41

the mark.

Chelsea Hayden 1:03:42

We are, we are the marks on His hands that show people what the rallying point is; that standard is the rallying point. It shows this is who we are. This is what we believe: our King lives. And every time that we choose to shine His light, we are bringing people to Him. And so we have this responsibility once we have felt that we have been able to be redeemed, we've experienced what it's like to have the Savior in our lives. We have an opportunity to be that standard to bring other people and say, This is where you come to find peace. This is where you can come to truly become whole.

Tammy 1:04:24

Can I applause like, Chelsea, that was awesome. I completely agree. And the spirit has absolutely born witness to what you've said is true. That standard in verse 22? And I love how it says, "And they shall bring the sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders." Like that is exactly it. Wow, Chelse. Thank you. Thank you for beautifully teaching Isaiah 49 to us.

Chelsea Hayden 1:04:49

Oh, I love this chapter.

Tammy 1:04:50

Oh I can tell. I thought that was so good. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, well, that was it. That's the end of our episode. So take a minute and gather your thoughts. Is there anything, any takeaway or anything that stood out to you that you want to share?

Chelsea Hayden 1:05:03

I loved the idea of the eagle moulting. I have never heard that before and it was such a powerful metaphor for me, to just imagine myself as that eagle and, and how you talked about how it's painful. It's painful to lose those, but that that's how we become stronger and better is to plunge ourselves into the waters provided by Jesus Christ, the Living Water. And to become more whole. I just feel like that kind of weaved its way through this entire section. And I really loved that.

Tammy 1:05:40

Thank you. I did, too when I learned about, this is so cool. For me it was when you said "Jesus Christ isn't the best way back to God." And you paused long enough for me to go, Wait a minute, what is she going to say? Oh dear, oh dear, we might have to re-record this. And then with power, you said "He is the only way." Oh, that struck my heart. I just thought that was so powerful. That was a turning point for me in this discussion, and I loved it. So, thank you. And then of course, what we ended with - Isaiah 49. I mean, I'm never going to look at those verses the same way again. So, thank you. Thank you for coming prepared. Thank you for knowing Hebrew.

Chelsea Hayden 1:06:17

You so much for letting me, it truly is such an honor.

Tammy 1:06:21

I just love talking all things Hebrew with you. It's so much fun. Hebrew, it's game changer. I'm telling you everybody, if you have a chance.

Chelsea Hayden 1:06:27

You should all learn it.

Tammy 1:06:28

Just learn the alphabet; just start with that, and then you're gonna get hooked. So anyway, thank you, Chelse, you're a delight; I just love you, friend.

Tammy 1:06:35

Well, we would love to hear what your big takeaway was from this episode. So if you haven't already joined our discussion group on Facebook, or if you're not following us on Instagram, you totally should. Because it's such a great place to ask questions as you study, or even just to share what you're thinking or feeling and experiencing with the podcast. So, at the end of the week, then, usually on a Saturday, we do a post, asking for your big takeaway. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and let us know what you've learned.

Tammy 1:07:00

You can get to both our Facebook and our Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on LDS living.com/sunday On Monday. And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, because that's where we're gonna have the links to all of the references we used today, as well as a complete transcript of this whole discussion, which many of you have mentioned on Facebook. Someone did a post, which was kind of cool, about how much you love the show notes and transcripts, so go check it out.

Tammy 1:07:22

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me Tammy Uzelac Hall and today our beautiful study group participant was Chelsea Hayden. And you can find more information about her at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Katie Lambert and me; it is edited by Haley Higham, and it is recorded and mixed by mix at six studios. And our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week.

Tammy 1:07:47

Oh and please remember, He CANNOT forget you because you're His favorite.

Chelsea Hayden 1:07:52

(sings) "Is laid for your faith in His mmmmm word."

Chelsea Hayden 1:07:59

Okay, just didn't, forgot, is it infinite?

Chelsea Hayden 1:08:01

I couldn't remember,

Chelsea Hayden 1:08:03

Excellent. It IS excellent.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai